The Townies, Part 2: Who Won the Year in Hollywood?

Summary

The Town with Matthew Belloni – “The Townies, Part 2: Who Won the Year in Hollywood?”

Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Matthew Belloni (A)
Guests: Lucas Shaw (C), Craig Horlbeck (B)

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Episode Overview

The second part of The Townies presents the tongue-in-cheek, irreverent industry “awards” created by Matthew Belloni and his team. They use their signature insider banter and sharp wit to break down Hollywood’s major hits, flops, fiascos, and power moves of 2025. This episode is focused on awarding the “winners and losers” of the year across key categories, analyzing who came out on top, who embarrassed themselves, and what it all means for the business. The tone is sharp, funny, and occasionally biting, with an explicit focus on major Hollywood moves, personalities, and behind-the-scenes drama.

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Key Segments & Insights

[01:28] Kicking Off: The Townies Award “Show”

• Joking about moving the Townies to YouTube, noting the saturation of YouTube award shows.
• Immediate jump to analyzing the ongoing decline of "once-dominant filmmakers" — namely Barry Levinson (“Alto Knights”) and James L. Brooks (“Ella McKay”) — with the “Megalopolis Award” for biggest embarrassment.
• “Alto Knights grossed $10 million worldwide. Big international release. ‘Ella McKay’ is at what, like, three and counting?” (A, 01:55)
• Belloni and Shaw agree the rout is more embarrassing for Brooks, given his history of quality over quantity compared to Levinson’s long list of late-career clunkers.

[04:01] Executive Fail of the Year

• Immediate discussion of the “Executive Fail of the Year.”

Winner: John Branca, Executor of the Michael Jackson Estate

• Allowed the shooting of an entire Michael Jackson biopic before realizing a legal clause blocked dramatization of one accuser’s story—requiring a costly reshoot.
• “It’s costing tens of millions of dollars and it all comes down...it is on him.” (A, 05:06)

Runner up: The “Colbert Cancellation” at Paramount/CBS

• Mishandled timing and communications fueled political conspiracy theories about Stephen Colbert’s late-night show cancellation.
• “They canceled it at a time and announced it in a way to make it look as bad as humanly possible.” (C, 06:05)
• “There had to be a better way of doing it.” (A, 07:47)

[07:54] Biggest Self-Inflicted Wound

Winner: Carla Sofia Gascon’s Oscar Fall

• Gascon’s likely Best Actress victory and her film’s Best Picture chances were torpedoed by resurfaced Islamophobic tweets.
• “Boom, it’s over and the movie doesn't win Best Picture and she doesn't win Best Actress.” (A, 08:06)

Runner up: Diddy’s Ill-Advised Self-Documenting

• Diddy allowed footage of himself in compromising situations to be used in a documentary, making for “the clear own goal” after his arrest.

[10:13] Dairy Queen Award (“Milking the Fans”)

Winner: Taylor Swift

• For releasing “40 different versions” of her album “Life of a Showgirl” across every platform and format to manipulate the charts.
• “She wanted to again and again and again and again. Well, she was gonna be—no, no, it wasn’t that. She wanted to be number one. She wanted to break the Adele record.” (C, 10:47)
• Runners-up: Netflix’s extended “Stranger Things” release; unnecessary blockbusters/sequels; perennial NFL games throughout the holidays.
• “We might have to name the category the NFL Dairy Queen award for milking its fans.” (A, 12:17)

[12:44] PR Fail of the Year

Winner: Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson’s Venice Speech

• His teary Venice festival speech about being misunderstood backfired, given his huge, self-crafted action-star career: “Now in ‘The Smashing Machine,’ he is finally able to be the actor he has always wanted to be.” (A, 13:22)
• “There was a narrative that was better crafted around him. He could have been Brendan Fraser...” (A, 13:59)

Runner-up: Brendan Carr’s Kimmel Scandal

• FCC Commissioner Carr’s mess over threatening ABC/Disney to yank Jimmy Kimmel, handing Kimmel a heroic narrative and sparking free speech backlash.

Special Mention: Ben Stiller’s Emmy Campaign

• Aggressive, “everywhere” efforts for “Severance” turned voters off due to overexposure and reputation.

[17:08] Savviest PR Move of the Year

Winner: Director Ryan Coogler’s Aspect Ratio Video for “Sinners”

• “It was cool. It told people what the movie was. It made it seem special.” (A, 17:12)

Runners-up:

• Barry Diller’s New York Magazine memoir excerpt
• David Ellison’s all-inclusive press conference for the Paramount deal
• Jason Blum on “The Town” podcast, authentically discussing a flop: “It was a good...people were in awe. And it’s not something that his own PR people would recommend.” (A, 19:25)

[21:36] Mea Culpa (“I Was Wrong”) and “Suck It, Haters” (“I Was Right”) Awards

• Mea Culpa: Belloni admits he underestimated “Stranger Things 5” ratings; Shaw admits he was wrong that chaos in the Trump admin would curb deal-making (“you have seen a healthy uptick in deal making” (C, 22:38)).
• Suck It, Haters:
  • Shaw was right that YouTube would get the Oscars rights.
  • Belloni defends his stance that Glen Powell is not a star, citing “Running Man”’s poor performance (“He’s not getting another big budget action movie where he is the star.” (A, 23:49))

[24:46] Craziest Executive Move of the Year

• Nominees:
  • Disney yanking Kimmel from air (“To not project out how that would go down...was shocking.” (A, 24:59))
  • David Ellison buying the Free Press
  • Tom Rothman at Sony greenlighting four simultaneous Beatles movies

[27:56] Most Erratic Talent Move

• Winner: Katy Perry going to space: “Gotta be right. I mean, in what world does she think that’s gonna go over well?” (A, 28:18)
• Special mention to the orbits around Jeff Bezos’ celebrity wedding (Leonardo DiCaprio showing up).

[29:44] Final Two-Part Closer: Who Won the Year?

Executive of the Year

• Winner: David Zaslav (Warner Bros. Discovery/Netflix deal)
  • "He split the company up to make it more attractive to Netflix...he does get credit for that. But to pay himself...$600 million for that, absolutely insane." (A, 30:11)
• Runners-up: Mike and Pam for career survivability; Neil Mohan (YouTube CEO) for Oscars deal and leading the platform’s TV dominance.
  • “They are now known generally among the general public...as the dominant TV platform.” (A, 31:53)

Talent of the Year

• Winner: Ryan Coogler, “Sinners”
  • "For his generation, is like, the guy...He hasn’t missed. And, you know, he’s done mostly IP stuff, but this was the big test, and he definitely passed." (A, 33:52)
• Notable Nominees: Lil Allen, Rosalía, South Park creators, Timothée Chalamet, Kendrick Lamar, Taylor Swift (for the “Masters” moment), Taylor gets dinged for “mounting backlash” from overexposure/manipulation.
• “The Dylan movie is what his fans wanted. It was packed with music, him looking cool, riding a motorcycle, being Bob Dylan. The Springsteen movie was like him in therapy.” (A, 36:06)

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Notable Quotes

• On streaming-era career comebacks:
  “There was a narrative that was better crafted around him. He could have been Brendan Fraser.” – Matthew Belloni [13:59]
• On industry self-inflicted wounds:
  “That one, I think, was the clear own goal.” – Lucas Shaw [09:30]
• On PR authenticity:
  “People were in awe. And it's not something that his own PR people would recommend. I guarantee you, no fancy PR firm would say, oh, you had a bomb. Why don't you go on the podcast and have everybody talk about how you had a bomb?” – Matthew Belloni [19:25]
• On YouTube’s Oscars deal:
  “I mean, you've been reporting about this for a long time. I've been reporting about how Netflix is like, about how YouTube is basically TV now...YouTube did a campaign this year to put Neil out there a lot more.” – Matthew Belloni [31:53]
• On Coogler’s ascendence:
  “Ryan Coogler...for his generation, is like, the guy. He hasn't missed.” — Matthew Belloni [33:52]

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Funniest/Memorable Moments

• Imagining an “awards show in tuxedos” – admits, “I just took off my sweater because it's warm in here.” (C, 03:51)
• Joke about the “NFL always” milking its fans, and Belloni’s sincere sympathy for producer Craig for having to work through the holidays. (A, 12:17)

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Final Segment: Marty Supreme’s Box Office Prospects & Chalamet’s Star Power ([37:00]-[43:27])

• Leads into a discussion of the big holiday box office opening of “Marty Supreme” starring Timothée Chalamet, comparing projected numbers for Marty Supreme and the Anaconda remake.
• Belloni and Craig debate what would be a “success” for Marty Supreme given expectations and industry standards. Both agree it needs a strong opening and robust holiday performance to justify its budget.
• “A24 is now in this like mid budget range movie where they tried it with Smashing Machine and it failed...but this movie needs to gross like $200 million worldwide to be considered a full-oriented success.” (A, 40:03)
• Belloni is “taking the over” on the tracking projection, banking on Chalamet’s dedicated fanbase.

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [01:28] — Start of Townies Awards: most embarrassing director/project
• [04:01] — Executive Fail of the Year (Michael Jackson Estate, Colbert)
• [07:54] — Self-Inflicted Wound of the Year (Gascon, Diddy)
• [10:13] — Dairy Queen Award (Taylor Swift, Netflix, NFL)
• [12:44] — PR Fail of the Year (The Rock, Brendan Carr, Ben Stiller)
• [17:08] — Savviest PR Move of the Year (Coogler, Diller, Ellison, Blum)
• [21:36] — Mea Culpa/I Was Right (Stranger Things, YouTube/Oscars, Glen Powell)
• [24:46] — Craziest Executive Move (Kimmel, Beatles movies, Ellison)
• [27:56] — Most Erratic Talent Move (Katy Perry to space, celebs at Bezos’ wedding)
• [29:44] — Who Won the Year (Zaslav, Mohan, Mike & Pam, Coogler, Chalamet, Taylor)
• [37:00] — Marty Supreme’s box office tracking and Chalamet’s campaign

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Episode Takeaways

• Biggest Winner: David Zaslav (for his business luck, not leadership style); YouTube as the new TV king; Ryan Coogler, cementing himself as a new blockbuster auteur.
• Biggest Loser: Mishandled legacy projects/directors; executive fumbles (legal and PR); over-milking of fans (Taylor Swift, Netflix).
• Year’s Tone: The industry is more unpredictable, PR-driven than ever, and nobody is safe from instant backlash—except, perhaps, Timothée Chalamet’s fanbase.

For fans of inside baseball in entertainment, the 2025 Townies deliver snark, sharp judgment, and a snapshot of Hollywood’s rapidly evolving culture—full of blunders and savvy maneuvers in equal measure.

Transcript

[A]

This episode of the Town is presented by HBO Max presenting the HBO original series Task for your consideration. In the working class suburbs of Philadelphia, an FBI agent played by Mark Ruffalo heads a task force to put an end to a string of violent robberies led by an unsuspected family man played by Tom Pelfrey. Don't miss the series the Atlantic is calling, riveting and revelatory. Now streaming on HBO Max. Don't miss the movie event of a lifetime. Visionary director James Cameron presents the greatest chapter in the biggest saga of all time. Fire and Ash, now playing in theaters. A new threat will rise in the character of Varong, who leads the ruthless Ash people. And a stunning new discovery will threaten to change the world of Avatar forever. Fire and Ash, now playing in theaters, iMacs and 3D screens everywhere. Get tickets now. Okay, we are here with part two of the Townies. Craig, can we get a little bit more of the awards show music?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I have some exclusive news as well. The Townies have signed a deal to move to YouTube. Get ready. You're gonna watch the Townies on your phone.

[C]

We could do video for select episodes each year that you sell heavy hardcore sponsorships.

[B]

The townies live on YouTube. Not a terrible idea.

[A]

No, not a terrible idea. If everyone can have an award show on YouTube, ours would definitely stand out.

[B]

Yeah, Bo and Yang started his own award show. Why can't we?

[A]

That's true. Bowen, Yang, you innovator in the space. All right, so we're going to go. I don't confuse you too often, Jim Bowen? You do. We are going to get right into it with the answer to our big teaser question from the previous episode. If you haven't listened, go to that. What is the bigger embarrassment for a once dominant filmmaker of 2025 Alto Knights from Barry Levinson or Ella McKay from James L. Brooks?

[B]

This is the Megalopolis Award.

[A]

This is the Megalopolis Award. Altonights gross $10 million worldwide. Big international release. Ella McKay is at what, like three and counting?

[C]

I think it's pretty clearly Ella McKay.

[A]

You think so? Yeah.

[C]

1. Ella McKay is, like, right in James Brooks sweet spot.

[A]

Okay, but you know what? De Niro, playing twins. Pretty embarrassing. No, not twins. Playing two characters that are not twins.

[C]

When is the last movie that Barry Levinson made that people liked or was good or mattered?

[A]

That makes it even more embarrassing that he was given a studio movie he hadn't made. This is a David Zaslav special. He knows the writer from the Hamptons.

[C]

He hadn't made a movie in 10 years. He hadn't made a movie with a major studio in almost 20 years. And that was man of the Year starring Robin Williams. A very forgettable late career Robin Williams movie. And the last movie that he made that was probably good was Wag the dog nearly 30 years ago. Unless you were a big Bandits fan.

[A]

Which I do remember James L. Brooks, like, what was his last big movie? How do you know? The Reese Witherspoon $120 million Sony movie that did nothing. He'll always have a place in the hall of fame for the Simpsons. Mary Tyler Moore Broadcast News, but man.

[C]

But he's never worked as much as Barry Levinson.

[A]

It's true. Well, he still works.

[C]

Yes. He. He's only ever made like 10 movies, and most of them were bangers.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

All right, so I think when you have a miss, if you're Barry Leventon, you've made like five clunkers. Having another clunker. Not so bad if you're James Brooks. And other than how do you know your oeuvre is pretty good.

[A]

Kudos to their agents for getting them these movies and for Jim Brooks and telling Disney if they want another Simpsons movie, they gotta make Ellen McKay. All right, we've already derailed this, so let's go. Craig, can we start in the categories for part two of the Townies?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Just is getting very tight.

[C]

I changed for part two.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I should know that.

[C]

And by changed, I mean I just took off my sweater because it's warm in here.

[A]

No, don't ruin the illusion. We are wearing tuxedos. Okay.

[B]

Just like the Oscars. We're going to start out with a banger. Executive fail of the year.

[A]

All right, I'm going to take this one to start, and to me, it's John Branca, who's not an executive, per se, but he is the.

[C]

He's sort of. He's the executor of an estate.

[A]

He's the executor of the Michael Jackson estate. And it is his job to make sure that the very expensive movie that they are making about Michael Jackson's life is cleared and will not be the subject of lawsuits. And lo and behold, after they shot the entire movie, they realize that there is a clause in a settlement agreement with an accuser of Michael Jackson that prevents them from dramatizing that accuser's story at any point. So they had to completely reshoot the last third of the movie, reconceptualize it. It was supposed to be this Answer to the critics and you know, denigrating all the accusers. Now it's just a straight Michael Jackson performance movie and they're going to probably put it into two parts if it's successful. But it's costing tens of millions of dollars and it all comes down.

[C]

Is that on him?

[A]

It is on him, yeah. I mean it's obviously on their lawyers. They should have recognized this.

[C]

Do you think that's why he sat for an FT puff piece? To make himself look better when he screws up?

[A]

Maybe, yeah. I mean did you see his living room in that piece? I mean it's like Donald Trump gone wild. It's like gold fixtures everywhere. I mean like thrones and you know, vases that as tall as people like. It's amazing. He has an extensive Ferrari collection as well. Listen, John Branca, one of the best music lawyers of all time, legend in.

[C]

The monetized the hell out of the estate, managed to get well with the Michael Jackson, especially considering the complications of the accusations against Michael.

[A]

But this is a fuck up and it's the fail of the year.

[C]

Mine is the Colbert cancellation.

[A]

Oh, do you think so? Really?

[C]

That was so badly mismanaged from my perspective.

[A]

Where you mean the timing of it or the fact of it?

[C]

All of it.

[A]

Okay, so you would keep a money losing show on the air.

[C]

I'm not saying canceling it was a mistake, but the way and the timing, it's like they canceled it at a time and announced it in a way to make it look as bad as humanly possible. Because it was at the end, it was as Paramount was trying to get its deal approved by the Trump administration. So you cancel probably the most vocal or one of the most vocal critics of Trump on television. People are going to, even if it is just for financial reasons, because of the timing, people immediately assume that it's politically motivated.

[A]

And they also don't buy the excuse that they had, which was that the deals were coming up.

[C]

And they also, they also, they also did it in a way where Colbert seemed not blindsided, but it's not like he had time to process it much.

[A]

Although my reporting is that they knew that there were issues swirling around the cost.

[C]

He became something of kind of a hero and Paramount and CBS became the villain. And to the question you were gonna ask about the timing of the deals. Sure. But you know whose deals were also up then? Jimmy Kimmel. And you know who waited to make an announcement? Jimmy Kimmel and Disney. Right. You can manage it in a way where you don't have to affect it. And look, maybe that's just good management, but if you are trying to claim that there wasn't a political aspect to it, the way that they handled it made it almost impossible for them to convince people.

[A]

But Kimmel is coming back. Colbert is being canceled. So if they knew Colbert was being canceled, they kind of had to tell the producers that their deals were not going to be renewed beyond the end of the season. Kimmel, they kept it secret because it was all handshake. You're going to come back.

[C]

We're going to figure it out. Yes, I hear you. I just don't.

[A]

I just.

[C]

There had to be a better way of doing it.

[A]

I agree. The timing was horrible. Oh, man. All right, Craig, next one.

[B]

Okay, next category is the biggest self inflicted wound of the year.

[A]

This one's obvious to me. It's Carla Sophia Gascon, who was probably going to win the best actress award of the Oscars last year. And some bad tweets, some Islamophobic stuff, some pretty horrendous thoughts came into the public. We don't know how. Maybe it was, you know, a campaign that put them out there. It was, I believe, an Indiewire reporter or someone else who first found them and boom, it's over and the movie doesn't win Best Picture and she doesn't win Best Actress.

[C]

I was more skeptical of that movie's chances of winning than I think you think.

[A]

There would have been a backlash.

[C]

Maybe she would have won. But I don't think that that movie was ever winning Best Picture.

[A]

The Penis Vagina song got pretty mocked on social media when it came out on Netflix. But, you know, the Academy has a long history of ignoring that stuff and people liked it. Yeah. And James Cameron said it was amazing. And I don't know, I think that Netflix had a real shot of winning and after that it was no way.

[C]

Yeah. Mine is also Netflix related, which is Diddy taping himself during his final days and not securing the footage such that you now have this documentary featuring him in the final moments before he gets arrested and doing all like saying and doing things that he should not be doing.

[A]

So you would, you would advise him and his team to maybe don't record.

[C]

Yourself when you're about to be arrested for sex traff. Allegations of sex allegations.

[A]

Nothing has been proven, although he got.

[C]

I forget. I have to look up. I forget what exactly he did get.

[A]

Convicted of a couple of things. Okay, so that's pretty good.

[C]

That one, I think was the clear own goal. The other one, this is Where I thought about another K pop answer. Although I did it. Which was Sony Music not getting the K Pop Demon Hunters soundtrack when it was a Sony Pictures animation movie.

[A]

Although they would argue they have some publishing and they have some other things. Don't. I don't want to. Nasty email, but. Yeah, but they off that often. Doesn't work that way. It's not like it's an anomaly.

[C]

No, but it's just classic. It happens at a lot of these companies. I think it happens at Sony perhaps more than most. Where they like, they operate these things totally separate and so they don't effectively communicate with each other.

[A]

Always fun when something becomes a gigantic hit and then everyone tries to credit grab and blame each other for not having a bigger piece of it. So. Okay, next, Craig.

[B]

Next up is the Dairy Queen award for the most effective milking of their fans.

[A]

This one is obvious.

[C]

I think we agree on this.

[A]

This is Taylor Swift.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For selling 40 different versions of Life of a Showgirl. CDs, vinyl, colored vinyl, cassettes, digital editions, covers, bonus tracks. Not bonus tracks. No, she didn't do any actual.

[C]

There was usually like there were different.

[A]

Versions of the same song, but there were no additional songs on this one. We know why she did it. She gamed the charts.

[C]

She wanted to again and again and again and again. Well, she was gonna be. No, no, it wasn't that. She wanted to be number one.

[A]

She wanted to break record.

[C]

No, she wanted to break the Adele record.

[A]

Yes, you're right.

[C]

And then stay number one for as long as humanly possible.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And you left out your favorite, which is that she released a documentary about a tour that she'd already released a documentary about six episodes.

[A]

No, I know. And I actually my runner up for the year was going to be also Taylor Swift for the six episode docu series. But I will defend that I am watching it and I actually kind of like it. So the milking is working on me. Yeah. But yeah. So is there anyone else in this category?

[C]

The only other one that I look Taylor Swift is number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I do think that Netflix stretching the final season of Stranger Things across three installments, trying to like take over all of the fall, doing multiple. They did fan events for each one. Like they're doing screenings on New Year's Eve, which. Look, I get it. It's the biggest show that they've ever released. This is the end of it. It's been a long time since the last one. And if you space it out this way, it means that the odds of churn for your fourth quarter are great, but for a show that had disappeared for so long, then coming back this way, it just. It feels too much.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, we could throw in there any unnecessary sequel. There's a bunch that sequels that people didn't ask for. Like, you could say the Tron fans were milked, although they didn't really show up.

[C]

I don't know that it was.

[A]

They were. They were barren. They didn't get much milk out of them. All right, let's move on.

[B]

I'd also like to add in the NFL for having us watch football.

[C]

The NFL Always.

[A]

That's it. They are a perennial. We might have to name the category the NFL Dairy Queen award for milking its fans. I feel bad for podcasters like Craig who have to literally spend their entire holidays watching football every day.

[B]

Yeah. This Christmas, we have three games on Christmas. We have two games on Saturday, we have 10 games on Sunday and then another game. That's Christmas weekend.

[A]

Amazing. Your family must love it.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. All right, next award here is the PR Fail of the year.

[A]

So lots of contenders here. I'm going to go with the Rock at Venice for his tearful speech and his standing ovation comments about how he's been pigeonholed his entire career. And only now in the Smashing Machine is he fully allowed to reveal himself as the awards worthy actor that he has always been from the beginning. Put aside the fact that this dude has made literally dozens of big budget action spectaculars that pay him full freight, and many of which he is a producer on. So it's not like he was given no choice. He developed these properties and put himself in there. His agent, Ari Emanuel, gets him top dollar for everything he does. And now in the Smashing Machine, he is finally able to be the actor that he has always wanted to be.

[C]

I think it. So we had a category in part one that was least believable announcement. I think that that speech. There's some, like, PR spin that this falls into. I don't think the only reason it backfired.

[A]

I don't think people were laughing.

[C]

Yeah, but I don't think that, like, that's why the movie didn't work.

[A]

No, I think that's why he's not getting awards.

[C]

He didn't get awards because he's not really believable in the movie, but. And the movie's not.

[A]

But again, just there was a narrative that was better crafted around him. He could have been Brendan Frazier. He could have been some of these guys that reinvent themselves.

[C]

We Talked about having a movie marketing fail category and I was gonna put the Smashing Machine under that. Cause I don't put it all on that speech. I do think that the way that that movie was presented, it ultimately did not live up to what it could have been. I also just don't think the movie was that good. But that's my personal opinion.

[A]

They should have done a more traditional blockbuster style rollout and not try to.

[C]

Not try to make it an awards movie.

[A]

Not try to make it. They knew they had Marty Smith supreme. I'm betting that Benny Safdie said, I want the same treatment as Josh is getting. I'm betting that happened. I don't know that that's true, but it's hard to tell filmmakers their movie is better served by not going to a prestigious film festival. It's just hard to do that. And Joker job. Joker too. That's your job as a studio executive, is to make those choices.

[C]

My answer for this is Brendan Carr threatening Jimmy Kimmel slash, telling station to yank Jimmy Kimmel. Where you have. Indirectly, indirectly. But Jimmy Kimmel made some comments that people got very upset about. It looked for a moment like, you know, the Trump administration was sort of going to get their way and make him look bad. And instead they overplay their hand. They go in too hard. And then even Ted Cruz is like, guys, chill. Free speech is still a thing. You should not be dictating late night programming. Yeah.

[A]

Although he just last week went on, went before Congress and said that, you know, he wasn't right.

[C]

Well, he then tried to walk it back, which is the clear sign that you said something you shouldn't have said. And he tried to pretend like, oh, no, I didn't say it, I didn't say it. But he said it.

[A]

He's not tweeting about this stuff as much as he was.

[C]

No, because it didn't work for him.

[A]

Exactly. All right. That's a pretty good one. The other one I had was Ben Stiller's Emmy campaign.

[C]

I didn't even know he had an Emmy.

[A]

He was everywhere. I mean, you know, severance should have won, Right? More ambitious, more like Emmy style television making than the Pit for sure. Which ended up winning best series. But Stiller didn't even win best directing. He lost to Slow Horses. And it was because I think the. He has a bad reputation. People know he's.

[C]

Do we have to add something? Anytime you're going after a Kelly Bush.

[A]

Client, she is the architect of this campaign. But this is irrespective of Kelly Bush being Involved as an observer. He was everywhere. And he was in the scrum like he was a regular Emmy contender. If you're Ben Stiller and you want to position yourself as being above that, you don't do all the little things. You do maybe one or two things, and you are the thing that everybody else is aspiring to. And he was everywhere. It was too much and it backfired. And also, he has a bad reputation. People know he's a jerk and they don't want to vote for him. But you don't like his jerks win.

[C]

Like his all caps. Nick's tweeting.

[A]

I mean, I'm sure. But, you know, but even with a guy like that, it seems performative. You know, it's like that's a good thing for his image. So he's doing that stuff. But yeah, maybe next year. Although there probably won't be a season of severance for like three more years and $500 million or whatever he's going to cost on it. All right, let's move on. Let's be. Let's have a nice category, Craig.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We'll flip the script here. And now do the savviest PR move of the year.

[A]

All right, I will start with that one. I'm going to say Ryan Coogler's very effective aspect ratio video that he did in advance of Sinners, which was very authentic. It was cool. It told people what the movie was. It made it seem special. It made it seem like it's an exciting event because there's different ways you could watch it. And he was explaining in a very relatable way why he did this movie the way he did.

[C]

Genius. Yeah. I have him as a candidate for a later award, so I'm not going into it. The first thing that came to mind, weirdly, was the first excerpt from the Barry Diller memoir, which I just thought sort of like framed the memoir perfectly. Got people very interested in it.

[A]

In something in New York Magazine.

[C]

New York magazine. It was him finally addressing his sexuality. And I do think that that helped the book a lot.

[A]

Yep. Yeah, it was interesting.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It made him seem much more.

[C]

Now, for me, I read that excerpt and I was like, great. I got what I need to out of this book. I'm not gonna read it. But I bought it. But a lot of other people bought it.

[A]

I was not interested in having him on this show just. Cause I kind of know what his shtick is at this point to shoot everyone else.

[C]

I've got so many interviews. Exactly.

[A]

But I did Read the book. I liked it. I thought it was interesting. I gave it to Craig to read, too. Craig was shocked that 50 million people would watch a movie of the week in the 1970s. And I'm like, well, that's what's happening on Netflix now. Like, it's the same thing. Netflix is making TV movies that millions of people watch. Okay. On that one, I had. I had the David Ellison press conferences. When he bought Paramount. Instead of doing an exclusive with a. With a media outlet or, you know, going on TV or whatever, bring everyone to a room.

[C]

You all get that. You all get to feel like you have time, but you really only get one question. Sure, but.

[A]

But they had a lunch. No, no, it was in la. It was very active. I thought that was good. They brought the usual suspects, you and me and everyone else that covers this, into a room. There were some questionable people invited. We won't have to name names, but everyone got to feel like they were brought into the tent. And even though Ellison's answers were mostly disappointing and a lot of, like, it's early days and, you know, we got to feel like we asked, and then it's like, what. What else is there to do? You know? So I thought that was very good. And then I think the winner here is Blum coming on this show and just embracing the failure.

[B]

The winner is the town.

[A]

As always. The winner is the town. No, no, but come on. I got more feedback on that episode from people in the business than any other episode.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The fact that he would volunteer to come on and talk about the failure of his movie.

[C]

Huge win. The PR move of the year is to come on the. Is to have a friend of Matt come on Matt's show. Matt, Matt, Matt.

[A]

As always, I'm telling you, I will stand that up against any of these other choices.

[C]

It was a good.

[A]

It was. People were in awe. And it's not something that his own PR people would recommend. I guarantee you, no fancy PR firm would say, oh, you had a bomb. Why don't you go on the podcast and have everybody talk about how you had a bomb? But. But he was authentic.

[C]

Yeah, He.

[A]

He's in the place where he can do that because he had. He knew he had five nights at Freddy's two coming. He knew he had conjuring coming. Like he could do that. And it worked. Then the Dark Horse was wicked for holding off on the blitz that they did for the first.

[C]

Yeah. But then the movie didn't do as well. It did fine.

[A]

It did fine. But it's. And I don't think it was ever going to do. I mean, we disagreed on this one. You thought it was. Might be bigger. I didn't think it was going to be bigger.

[D]

Train Dreams is now nominated for five Critics Choice awards, including best Picture, Best Actor and Best Adapted Screenplay, and two Golden Globe awards, including Best Actor, Joel Edgerton.

[E]

I don't know where the years go.

[D]

It is also nominated for four Independent Spirit awards.

[A]

Figure it out. Let me know.

[E]

I'd like to ask for a few back.

[D]

And winner for best adapted Screenplay from National Board of Review. New York magazine hails it the best picture of the year. Train Dreams, now playing in select theaters and on Netflix for your consideration. Rated PC13 may be inappropriate for children under 13.

[E]

AMC, the home of award winning drama and unforgettable originals, brings you more in 2020.

[D]

2026.

[A]

Prepare to have your mind blown with.

[E]

A new season of the critically acclaimed Dark Wings. You cannot separate spirituality from upholding the law. All new Anne Rice's the Vampire, Lestat. I'm a rock star now. I am everywhere. Plus the Audacity, a bold new series from a producer of Succession and Better Call Saul with Zach Galifianakis and Billy Magnussen coming in 2026 only to AMC.

[B]

The next two are. It's a two parter here. We're going to do the mea culpa. I was wrong. And the suck it haters. I was right.

[A]

Okay, I'll start with the I was wrong. I said on this show that Stranger Things 5 would not match the ratings of Stranger Things 4.

[C]

Never bet against Stranger Things 4.

[A]

I was wrong. Yeah, it's gonna. I mean, it's a little bit weird.

[C]

Because of the way they're releasing it.

[A]

They're drawing it out.

[C]

So, like the numbers are huge.

[A]

As of now. It hasn't beat it, but it will 100% beat it.

[C]

Yeah, mine was. I voiced a lot of skeptic, like there were all these media people being like happy about the shift from Biden and Lina Khan to Trump because it would lead to more deals. And early in the Trump administration, all the chaos and all of that, there was so much uncertainty that it didn't seem like it. But we have had, not just in media, but in general, a lot of deals this year, I think. So I guess I was wrong that while there was uncertainty, I was wrong that the Trump administration, a lot of.

[A]

Those have not been approved yet.

[C]

A lot of them have not been approved. But you have seen a healthy uptick in deal making, which is what people wanted.

[A]

Okay. So, all right, let's go.

[C]

And I think the business community in general is like, even if they're not gonna say it, like, tariffs aside kind of happens.

[A]

Tariffs are a big deal, though.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they are weighing stuff down. All right, you can continue with the suck it haters.

[C]

I was right. I was initially gonna go with just like, being really early to Bad Bunny, and now having him being a huge star and you giving me shit for it.

[A]

I did give you shit. People were tweeting at me when he got the super bowl, like, oh, Lucas is going to be first in line.

[C]

So I'll. But I'll also say I reported in August that YouTube was making a push for the Oscars and they got the rights to the Oscars. So that was good.

[A]

And you didn't finish that thought. I said this won't happen because I thought that the. The backlash from the members would be so strong, which there is backlash for the members. And, you know, we have talked about this, but you were early on this.

[C]

What were you right about?

[A]

I said Glen Powell is not a star and the Running man did not work.

[C]

So you think he's done.

[A]

He's over. Not done. But I think that Glen Powell as an action star who can open a movie. Not happening.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

He's not getting another big budget action movie where he is the star. Right. I mean, this was ip, but it was pretty weak ip. They were really counting on him, and he sold the crap out of it and just didn't work. I mean, 37 million domestic, 68 million worldwide. Like, not enough for a movie that was marketed pretty heavily. Like, can't happen.

[C]

Yeah. Terrible.

[B]

In his defense, I'm not sure who under 45 can open a semi original movie.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Or who under 45 gave two shits about the Running Man.

[A]

No, but that's the reason why they cast him is because they thought young people cared about him. Maybe if it was him and Sydney Sweeney, it would have been different, but I don't know.

[C]

Do you think that he matters more to young men or young women?

[A]

Women.

[C]

So then the Running man would not be the right movie. But.

[A]

No, but they thought that he's credible enough for men and that they would bring their girlfriends or wives. And that didn't happen.

[B]

Okay, next award. Here we have the craziest executive move of the year.

[C]

I wrote a lot of stuff down and I wasn't really sure what to do. Here I had David Ellison fighting the south park creators. I had Ari Emanuel buying a bunch of stuff from himself. The yanking of Kimmel off the Air by Disney.

[A]

That's mine. That's the craziest executive move of the year. To not project out how that would go down and see that it would become a cause celeb, and it would be something that transcended just this one moment to become cultural and the President would get involved. To not see that was shocking.

[C]

Yeah. Do you think that it matters that it ended up working out okay?

[A]

I think it does, yeah. I mean, they managed it.

[C]

The initial decision was hasty and perhaps off.

[A]

But I also. Do you think that I would credit Kimmel for that? Like, the fact that Kimmel was ready to, like, calm things down and go back and do his answer and basically get to do what he wanted to do in the first place. But the fact that he didn't go scorched earth on that. Right.

[C]

But do you think that if you were sat across from Bob Iger or Dana Walden, that they would tell you we actually made the right decision, that taking him off the air for a night and then having the weekend and kind of letting everyone have time for cooler heads to prevail meant that the message that he delivered on his show was better than it would have been?

[A]

No, I think the real fail was not just in not doing the show that night. It was in the messaging they put out where they said the show is.

[C]

Being off indefinitely or whatever.

[A]

Indefinitely? You cannot do that. You can't say that our talent is being yanked indefinitely because of complaints over a joke. Like, you could say we had some disagreements about tonight's show. Look for Kimmel to come back. We're resolving this. Whatever. But the indefinite part, yeah, it was a bad statement. Really bad. And I've heard different accounts of who was responsible for that. So I'm not going to name names, but crazy move.

[C]

I had a random one. I don't know if it falls under executive move, but did you follow at all the story of Tim Lewicki?

[A]

Sure, yeah. The former AG guy.

[C]

Right. Who had a business with Irving Azov. He gets indicted and then he, like, basically, thanks to a golf game, gets pardoned by Trump.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we could go through the Trump pardon list. And yeah, I also had David Ellison buying the free press for 200 million or whatever that is. I mean, Barry hire Bari Weiss, I guess, but I guess he had to buy Free Press to hire her. But I mean, that's still kind of playing out.

[C]

It could be considered under bad deal. Just even if it works, it's like that's just such a huge price to pay.

[A]

And what Is working. Like, is it just that Trump was happy with her? Like, we don't have to get into this, but I just think that was a crazy move. And then Tom Rothman at Sony greenlighting four Beatles movies and then dating them or saying that he's gonna date them within a week. Within a month. A week to a week. Yeah. Yeah. Like, is that going to work? I mean, I hope it does, but it's a crazy move, right?

[C]

Insane.

[A]

Is there that much demand for Beatles movies? Four of them?

[C]

Probably not, but if they're good.

[A]

Yeah. If they're great, he'll have the last laugh and he'll be the king of Cinemacon.

[B]

Okay, next category is the most erratic talent move.

[C]

I only really had one for this because I had a hard time thinking about it.

[A]

It's not Kanye bringing his naked girlfriend to the Grammys.

[C]

No. Kanye has officially lost. I think you. Kanye is officially. He's just permanently erratic, this one. I'll give credit to my fiance who suggested it, which was Katy Perry going to the moon.

[A]

I have this. Katy Perry goes to space. Gotta be right. I mean, in what world does she think that's gonna go over well? I mean, she already had some image issues and her tour wasn't.

[C]

But I feel like it was all of them, honestly. Like, that whole trip was.

[A]

Yeah. And the worst, I think, was Gail Gayle King, because I like Gayle and she has a good reputation. And Oprah. She dragged Oprah into it.

[C]

The chummy relationship between a lot of these big celebrities and the Bezos Sanchez Orbit. Like, that wedding was a.

[A]

And their party, their James Kris Jenner's party at their house. It's surprising who shows up for that stuff. Yeah. Doesn't Leo go to the Bezos wedding?

[B]

He did, I believe.

[C]

Yeah, I think so.

[A]

What is Leo doing at the Jeff Bezos wedding? I guess he likes a good party.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he did spend most of his summer, like, trapezing through Europe.

[B]

He was probably already on the Mediterranean.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, God. Yeah. That's a pretty erratic move. Going to space. Not a good love.

[C]

No.

[A]

Although the producers of the Morning show would like us to know that they did it first. That happened on the Morning Show.

[C]

Great.

[A]

Which came out this year. That's. We should have another category for, like, big show that comes and goes. And nobody talks about the Morning Show. Season four. That's supposedly Apple's biggest show. And it just came and went. Yep. Amazing.

[C]

A lot of contenders for that one.

[A]

I know. All right, Are we there, Craig?

[B]

We have reached our final Two part closer. Who won the year? We'll start first with the executive who won the year and then go to talent who won the year.

[A]

I mean, we've talked about this, so we don't have to.

[C]

I have a tie for who won the year that are, that we've both touched on in other categories.

[A]

Okay, so let me, I'll just say David Zaslav to me, Executive win of the year. And it's. And this is not a nice endorsement of him. This is a. Holy shit.

[C]

This guy, he pulled it off.

[A]

This guy is the beneficiary of some of the best luck that has ever occurred in this business. And yes, he split the company up to make it more attractive to Netflix. They hook, line and sinker. He got them in. And that, he does get credit for that. But to pay himself or for the compensation committee to pay him $600 million for that, absolutely insane.

[C]

Yeah, so I had, I had a tie between him and Mike and Pam.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Just, just because I think David Zaslav is going to be fine no matter what.

[A]

But what this showed is that what Mike and Pam did this year, as impressive as it is with those movies doesn't matter to the overall health of the company. Like, doesn't matter. I mean, it's better that they did well than they didn't do well. And the quarterly earnings were certainly benefited by having those moves.

[C]

But I guess. But if you look for them individually, David, as I've went from I'm CEO of this company, I'm going to be CEO of the company next year and we're going to spin it off and I'm going to get paid a lot of money and like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Mike and Pam went from maybe we won't have a job to we're now kind of like untouchable. And if, let's say Netflix does the deal, I would assume that Netflix would try to keep them to run the movie division.

[A]

Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. The only other candidate I had was Neil Mohan at YouTube. I mean, this Oscars deal is the sort of capper of the year where.

[C]

Everyone was just like YouTube.

[A]

I mean, you've been reporting about this for a long time. I've been reporting about how Netflix is like, about how YouTube is basically TD now. But I feel like YouTube did a campaign this year to put Neil out there a lot more. And they are now known generally among the general public that they are the dominant TV platform.

[C]

Well, and he had, he as an individual had a lot of work to Do. Because he was sort of a. Even though he, even prior to being named CEO, was like either the number two or number three executive at the company, nobody really knew who he was. Like, Susan Wojcicki had a huge public profile.

[A]

He's boring. Very nice guy, but kind of boring.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So. And I think that's going to continue. I mean, they are not done. They're going to spend big money on big live events, on big content. Question is, does YouTube do more in the traditional Hollywood world next year? I guess we're getting ahead of ourselves in the predictions.

[C]

Google buys NBCUniverse. Kidding. Kidding.

[A]

I don't know, man. Nothing would surprise me now. All right, let's move to talent. The talent who won the year. Give me your candidate.

[C]

This is where I went. Coogler. So I'll give you my.

[A]

Okay, give me the argument for Coogler. Ryan Coogler, Sinners.

[C]

There was so much negative press before that movie came out about how could Warner Brothers give him this deal.

[A]

Yes. He got the copyright back.

[C]

That movie was sort of the centerpiece. My answers to this go hand in hand. That movie was like the centerpiece of the Warner Brothers is spending too much money. They're out of control. How could they do this? And then it becomes this cultural sensation. Even if one battle after another is probably gonna win Best Picture, I actually think that there will be sort of more of a conversation about, like, Sinners will have a longer cultural shelf life.

[A]

370 million worldwide. It's almost double what one battle.

[C]

The aspect ratio stuff that you talked about, I think he just sort of clearly cemented himself. We're in a moment now where there are a handful of directors who are, like, bankable as box office.

[A]

He Nolanized himself.

[C]

Correct. He went from franchise Nolan and Tarantino.

[A]

He is the franchise.

[C]

Correct. His generation, it's like him and Jordan Peele and like Jordan and Greta, maybe, but Greta needs. Jordan Peele's, like, a little wobbly right now because he just doesn't work as much. Ryan Coogler, I feel like, for his generation, is like, the guy.

[A]

He hasn't missed. Yeah, he hasn't missed. And, you know, he's done mostly IP stuff, but, like, this was the big test, and he definitely passed. So I'll give you that.

[C]

Do you want my others, or do you want to do yours?

[A]

You go.

[C]

I had. So I had used her in another category, but music wise, I think Lily Allen and Rosalia Geese, they all had huge years.

[A]

Not Beyonce. For the biggest tour of the year.

[C]

It was less big. Than her. I mean, she's a huge star, but I don't think this was all that meaningful.

[A]

Not Coldplay, the South, perennially the second or number one.

[C]

The south park guys for how that all played out in their favor. Chalamet, who we talked about. And even though I think I might have picked him for winning last year, the combo in like the same week of the super bowl and then winning one of the big Grammys for Kendrick, he, I think is a good candidate for.

[A]

Don't forget his association with the Dodgers.

[C]

Sure. And, and, and, and then just to make Bill happy, we'll just. Pablo Torre for the whole Clippers scandal as a podcasting star.

[A]

The journalist of the year. Good stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I. I would throw Taylor Swift in there just because of the Masters thing.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Now, this rollout and this album, I.

[C]

Think I feel like it's.

[A]

It's not her armor.

[C]

There are a couple chinks now.

[A]

Yes, there are. And I think the next one, I mean, we don't have to get into the Taylor Swift discourse, but I think that she did have a number of big wins this year.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

With all the manipulation. Got her the numbers she wanted on her album, I feel like, because there.

[C]

Was a little bit of a mounting backlash, I just wouldn't put her in my top five. But she wins every year because she's Taylor Swift. Sure.

[A]

And obviously the Chiefs not winning.

[C]

Yeah. But now Travis Kelce can retire and be a stay at home dad. It'll be great.

[A]

And I'm sure that'll be great for their relationship. Yeah. All right.

[C]

No, Timmy, I put a Chalamet.

[A]

You did.

[C]

Chalamet's in my top five. He's probably like number four.

[B]

It's a tbd. If Marty supreme is really big, he can vault to number one right now.

[C]

But he did.

[A]

The Dylan movie made money. The Dylan movie got 130.

[C]

People are excited about him, but we need. Yeah. Marty supreme has to open, and then he's got to have a killer Oscar campaign. And then maybe next year we can. We can.

[A]

The fact that the Dylan movie hit and the Springsteen movie didn't, I think also boosts.

[C]

We didn't talk about the Springsteen movie. Should that have been Sneaky bomb? Bruce was out promoting it.

[A]

I know, but we sat next to each other.

[C]

It wasn't good.

[A]

It wasn't good. And not like good, bad, whatever. It wasn't what his fans want. And that's the problem. The Dylan movie is what his fans wanted. It was packed with music. It was him looking cool, riding a motorcycle Being Bob Dylan. The Springsteen movie was like him in therapy. Yeah, like not. Not good. All right, that's it. We're done with the townies. I can get out of my tux. I'm getting a little uncomfortable. Anyways, let's go to the party. Thanks, Lucas. Appreciate it.

[C]

How sweaty are you right now?

[A]

Very. You can't see it, but I'm very sweaty. I'm going to spend the holidays doing nothing except research for the 2026 box office draft. I have some early dark horses, so get ready for that in January. We are back with a call sheet. Craig, where are we on the Marty supreme press tour? Reactions. Are we in the backlash camp? Are we in the hell, yeah, go for it camp? Where are we?

[B]

Oh, come on. You can't be in the backlash camp. You have to respect the grind of this. If this doesn't work, I don't know what will.

[A]

I know. What else could he do?

[B]

Yeah, like, this is the whole point. The only thing they haven't done is I don't know if you've noticed the Marty supreme orange is very similar to the town orange. And yet no collaboration just yet.

[A]

No collabs? No, we have not had that request on Instagram yet. Also, it's hilarious. The Dream Big slogan. Very similar to the Dream Huge slogan that is for songs on Blue, the Kate Henson Hugh Jackman movie.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

You can either dream big over the holidays or you can dream huge.

[B]

My fa. I like the Wheaties collaboration because there's a nod in the movie about him wanting to be on a Wheaties box. And they actually do that. The Dream Big is very like old timey Olympic sports branding.

[C]

It's very good.

[A]

Yes. I mean, he said in his marketing video that they put online that he wanted this to be like the Barbie campaign. So he picked a color, he picked a very cute slogan, and he's just going 100 miles an hour.

[B]

Well, he didn't just pick a color that there. There are orange ping pong balls. It needs to be that color.

[A]

Yes, there is, but it's very. It's very visual. Listen, he's sitting on top of the sphere. You made a good point. Doesn't show us how he got down from the sphere.

[B]

I would love to know how he got on it. Was it a helicopter? Was there an elevator situation?

[A]

Of course there was a helicopter. What are they going to do? They're going to not going to slingshot him up there.

[B]

Well, I don't know. I don't know if there's like passageways at the top of the sphere you can get there, I don't know. So obviously Timmy's going as hard as you can go on this press tour trying to get people to see this movie. And awareness at the very least has to be high. Whether or not people see it, we don't know. In your opinion, what is success this weekend?

[A]

Okay, that's a good, that's a good segue because the numbers here are not matching up to what the hype machine is hoping it would. It did amazing. In limited release this past weekend it was on, I believe, six screens and it grossed 875, 100,000, which is a 145,000 per theater, which is the best of the year. And it's an all time high for a 24. Now those are often misleading. You can put tens of millions of dollars into marketing for a release in six theaters and pretty much guarantee a huge number on that opening weekend limited. The question is how it translates to the wide release. And that's why they're going so big this week, because the wide release numbers are not great. On tracking, NRG has it at 16 million for this weekend. That's for the four day, including Christmas on a Thursday. By most estimations, it's going to get spanked by Anaconda, the Jack Black, Paul Rudd remake slash sequel of Anaconda, which.

[B]

I wasn't even sure that was a real movie. That felt like an industry plant film.

[A]

Feels like a 30 rock movie. I know, but the tracking on that one is. Is about 26, 25, 26 for the four day.

[B]

But so for all of the marketing they've done for Marty supreme, all the clever marketing integration, all these cool ideas, Timmy doing everything like to you, what number needs to be hit for you to think this was a successful campaign?

[A]

You mean on the opening or the overall? Because the thing about Christmas is that every day between Christmas and New Year's is pretty much like a Saturday. So you can all of a sudden you can open to 16 million and by the end of the Christmas holiday you could be at like 70, 80 million. Now this movie has a production budget in the 60, 70 million range, which is kind of insane for this kind of a movie, which is why they're doing the full court press for it. A24 is now in this like mid budget range movie where they tried it with Smashing Machine and it failed. They've tried it with a couple others. It worked with materialists, although that was a much lower budget. But this movie needs to gross like $200 million worldwide. To be considered a full oriented success. And 16 million opening is probably not going to cut it under a traditional metric. Hopefully it will catch fire and the marketing will work and people will see it. There's a long tradition of these award style movies opening on Christmas day. You know, Wolf of Wall street did.

[B]

It, Django Unchained and I mean even look at last year. Look at a complete unknown.

[A]

Yeah, complete unknown.

[B]

Timmy's the king of Christmas. Back to back Christmas movies for Timmy and a complete unknown only opened to 11 million over the three day and it ended up getting to 140 worldwide.

[A]

Yeah. But it opened to 23 million over the five day. Christmas was a day earlier last year and that's much more than this movie will get to even if it had an extra day. So, you know, it's an easier sell a Bob Dylan movie than this movie is. People don't really know what it is. They're basically going because of him. And that's a tougher sell. So I hope it does well.

[B]

It's a huge test. It's an original movie with a star who's not a legacy, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon type and you know, it's basically an original story about ping pong.

[A]

Exactly. In two and a half hours. But I'm going to take the over on 16. I do think based on the blitz, I think that NRG is probably underestimating the Timmy effect and I think it's got to get to over 16 for the four day. Right. I'll probably take the under on anaconda at 2016 for the weekend. There's confusion. This movie is like a parody of a Anaconda movie. So I don't. I think there's a little confusion there. So I'm not going to take the over there. I'll take the under. But I do think that Timmy will get this to over 16 million for the four day.

[B]

I agree. I also think, I do think this movie's really good. I've actually seen it twice now and I think it's going to have a really strong word of mouth.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. You're much more in tune with the younger audience than I am so I will trust you on that one. By the way, some accountability coming off. My biggest whiff of the year on Avatar took the over on 110 and it came in at 89. Oof. Big Jim, man let me down.

[B]

We discussed it a little bit but I think we underestimated what the shorter turnaround time between the second and third compared to the first and second Will.

[C]

Will do.

[A]

It's early. It's early. Hopefully people will discover and go over the break and it'll last. There's not much competition, as we said, so it's early, but. All right, Timmy, now's your chance. You got to transition those people who are following the press tour into actual tickets bought on opening weekend.

[B]

I do think young people, I mean, all of the film nerds are going to line up to see this movie, but I do think young people, general young people are going to be interested in seeing it.

[A]

All right, well, Club Chalamet is all in. She's going nuts. This is literally her Christmas.

[B]

Do you think she got a jacket?

[A]

Oh, of course she did. What are you talking about? Of course she did.

[B]

Has Timothy Chalamet acknowledged her or no?

[A]

There is a picture of them together from, I think, a couple years ago where she showed up at something. But now that she went public in that big Wall Street Journal profile, we all know who she is. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Lucas Shaw in his tuxedo, producer Craig Horobeck, Art editor Jesse Lopez, and I want to thank you. Happy holidays to everyone. We'll see you next week.

[F]

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