Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode Title: Why the NFL (and Everything Else) Keeps Breaking Ratings Records
Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Matthew Belloni
Guest: Brian Fuhrer (SVP of Product Strategy & Thought Leadership, Nielsen)
Producer: The Ringer

Overview

This episode dives into why sports—especially the NFL and other live TV events—keep breaking viewership records despite the fragmentation of television and endless headlines about the "decline" of linear TV. Matthew Belloni interviews Nielsen’s Brian Fuhrer to unpack whether these record-breaking numbers are a result of genuine audience growth, improved measurement practices, or a combination of both. Together, they explore the complexities of TV ratings in the modern era, the impact of expanded data collection, the shifting demographics of streaming audiences, and the reliability of ratings data in an increasingly digital landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What’s Behind the Sports Ratings Boom?

Timestamps: 00:56–05:55

• Nielsen and other outlets keep announcing sports games, parades, and live events have hit historic viewership highs in the past season (World Series, NFL, Macy's Thanksgiving Parade).
• Key Metrics Change: Nielsen added more comprehensive "out of home" measurement this year, now capturing 100% of such viewing (in bars, restaurants, etc.), up from 65%.
• Sensor data from 75 million devices (set-top boxes, smart TVs) is now added to their longstanding panel surveys.
• There’s skepticism—are ratings up because of more actual viewers, or just because more are being captured?

"My BS detector went off full blast when I got the press release from CBS about the Thanksgiving ratings and the 57 million people... I keep looking at these headlines...and I want to, like, pull my hair out because the playing ground has fundamentally changed here."
— Matthew Belloni (05:25)

2. Are Bigger Numbers Just Better Counting?

Timestamps: 05:55–08:46

• Brian Fuhrer acknowledges “out of home” expansion but says it’s not driving the massive jumps some expect.
• For example, out of home viewership contributed 45% of the record NFL Thanksgiving Day ratings vs. 38% the previous year for similar games—a meaningful but not radical increase.
• The main driver for the Thanksgiving NFL ratings was the quality of the matchups and closeness of the games—what Fuhrer calls “lightning in a bottle.”

"It was lightning in a bottle. All the games were close...Tremendous games and tremendous coverage."
— Brian Fuhrer (07:56)

3. The Streaming Effect & Demographic Shifts

Timestamps: 08:46–12:52

• Streaming platforms like Peacock are contributing meaningful new audiences, especially among younger and more female demographics.
• Network simulcasts (breaking out of purely linear TV) see legitimate usage, not just as an afterthought.
• While Fuhrer can't give precise percentages, he confirms streaming now makes up “north of” the 2–3% it used to—particularly notable among the 18–34 set.
• Sports leagues—especially the NFL—are incentivized to embrace and encourage this shift.

"They’re exposing their content and the games to much younger audiences in ways that they want to consume it."
— Brian Fuhrer (12:52)

4. Methodological Anxiety & Comparability Across Years

Timestamps: 12:52–18:14

• There’s ongoing industry tension regarding how much change in audience measurement methodology affects "record-breaking" headlines.
• NFL leadership and others still push back on Nielsen, wanting even better co-viewing data (e.g., tracking parties/groups more accurately).
• Comparison across years is difficult when significant methodological changes occur; Belloni advocates for “asterisks” on these headlines.

"These headlines should have asterisks on...if you are comparing the numbers this year to the numbers even last year or a few years ago, it's just a different playing field."
— Matthew Belloni (17:37)

5. The Monoculture Question: True Audience Growth or Just Better Counting?

Timestamps: 18:14–20:11

• Belloni wonders if the perception of “monoculture”—that is, unified mass viewing—is real, given TV and media fragmentation.
• Fuhrer suggests that sports (especially big NFL events) are increasingly the exception to fragmentation, drawing broad and diverse viewership.
• Sports, and making live events easily accessible via streaming, may be the best antidotes to declining “must-watch together” TV moments.

"Sports, particularly the NFL, is one thing that defragmentizes the audiences probably more than anything."
— Brian Fuhrer (19:04)

6. Reliability & Accountability of Streaming Data

Timestamps: 20:11–23:52

• First-party data from platforms like Amazon and Netflix is important, but advertisers and networks want the objectivity of a third party (Nielsen).
• Nielsen combines its panel data with streaming platforms’ first-party data for more reliable results, filling gaps where pure streaming data can’t capture actual viewing activity (e.g., TV left on, but no one watching).

"The only reason that they're coming to us is the consistency that the advertisers accept by us taking our panel and...making the data better with their first-party data."
— Brian Fuhrer (22:08)

7. Data Accuracy, Institutional Trust & Double Counting

Timestamps: 23:52–26:58

• Nielsen invests in hardware and analytics to ensure that duplicate viewership (moving between devices) isn’t miscounted and co-viewing is tracked accurately.
• The process can log users across devices (wearables, app integration, guest login)—but real-world accuracy depends on compliance and software tracking.
• For simultaneous streams (e.g., TV and phone), Nielsen attempts to credit just the individual, not duplicate views.

8. Which Sports and Events Are Growing the Fastest?

Timestamps: 27:05–28:44

• MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) is flagged as the fastest-growing sport.
• Baseball’s national ratings were up in 2025 (World Series, national games), with strong international numbers due to players like Shohei Ohtani.
• Tense, close games amplify viewership—success begets success.

"Nothing succeeds like success."
— Brian Fuhrer (28:59)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On viewership measurement inflation:
  "You measured a third more people and it boosted the out of home numbers by 7%."
  — Matthew Belloni (07:34)

• On co-viewing complexities:
  "We have people that wear wearable devices so that if we're going to other people's houses, we're making sure that we know that...we can have literally two dozen people logged in."
  — Brian Fuhrer (14:40)

• On cross-device and streaming measurement:
  "There's a lot that goes on in the background with our panel...that is absolutely the backbone."
  — Brian Fuhrer (26:58)

• On sports defeating TV fragmentation:
  "The content that really does best against and brings a lot of younger viewers back in is sports."
  — Brian Fuhrer (19:30)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• 00:56–03:55 — Setting the context: rapid rise in sports TV ratings and methodological change at Nielsen
• 05:25–08:46 — Belloni and Fuhrer debate: Is it better counting or real audience growth?
• 09:13–12:52 — Streaming’s rising role and demographic shifts
• 13:40–15:11 — Ongoing demands for Nielsen to improve measurement, especially around co-viewing
• 17:03–18:14 — Dangers of direct comparison due to changing methodologies
• 19:04–20:11 — The NFL’s unique ability to “defragment” modern audiences
• 23:04–23:52 — Nielsen vs. platform self-reporting: filling data gaps
• 27:05–28:44 — Fastest growing sports and the impact of international audiences

Tone

Matthew Belloni is skeptical, probing, and candid, often poking fun at the shifting landscape, Nielsen’s incentives, and the inherent challenges of comparing ratings numbers across rapidly evolving platforms and measurement techniques. Brian Fuhrer is open, technical, and sometimes cagey about proprietary specifics, but clearly passionate about Nielsen’s efforts to maintain accuracy and relevance in a changing industry.

Summary Takeaways

• Recent sports ratings “records” are due to both real audience increases and expanded/modernized measurement methods—particularly capturing more out of home and streaming viewers.
• Streaming is meaningfully contributing to live viewership, with younger and more diverse audiences tuning in, especially via simulcasts.
• Comparing ratings across years requires caution due to major methodological changes; headline numbers can be misleading.
• Nielsen is focused on constant improvement—co-viewing measurement, device integration, and using first-party streaming data—to retain its status as the industry gold standard.
• Sports, especially NFL, remain the strongest driver of mass, cross-generational TV watching, even as the rest of the media landscape fragments.