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- [00:00]
A
If you care about Hollywood, and I assume you do, if you're listening to the Town, you should really be getting the whole story about Hollywood. That's what you get with Puck. I'm a founding partner Puck and I write a newsletter called what I'm Hearing. It's got exclusive news for insiders and analysis of the biggest stories. Puck has a bunch of great journalists. We just hired Kim Masters who also covers Hollywood from the inside, plus media, sports, fashion, politics and finance. It's a must have for plugged in people. Fans of the Town get a discount on the description page of this episode or at Puck News thetown. Go further into Hollywood by becoming a Puck member today. This episode of the Town is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting a House of Dynamite from Kathryn Bigelow, the Academy Award winning director of the Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty. When a single unattributed missile is launched at the United States, a race begins to determine who is responsible and and how to respond. Starring Idris Elba and Rebecca Ferguson, now a New York Times critics pick. Deadline raves it's one hell of a motion picture achievement now playing on Netflix for your awards consideration.
- [01:04]
B
Hey friends, it's Karamo, talk show host, life coach and your next best friend. You just don't know it yet. I'm hosting a new podcast called started on WhatsApp brotherhoods. We're going around the world to explore male friendships and all the wins, challenges and bonds that are made in WhatsApp group chats. And that's exactly where you can listen to it, right in the app. It's streaming on the official WhatsApp channel. Just open the app and go to the updates tab to start listening. While you're at it, message your best friend and make sure they listen too. I'll see you there.
- [01:34]
A
It is Monday, November 10th. As longtime listeners know, there are few genres of Hollywood business news that I hate more than carriage disputes. We all know how they go. TV channel owners want a big feature fee increase in a new deal. They usually expire right around the major sporting events of the season or the start of the NFL season. Distributors push back. They go down to the wire. Sometimes the networks even go dark for a few days or weeks. Then a negotiation breakthrough and everyone's friends again. This latest standoff between Disney and YouTube TV, which is now in its second week of no ESPN or ABC or FX. For the 10 million subscribers that get that service, including Craig. He's very pissed. This fight will probably end soon, but there's a few factors here that make this one a little bit more interesting. Namely, it's YouTube. It's owned by Google, which makes the vast majority of its $350 billion in annual revenue on stuff that is not YouTube TV, maybe the fourth largest cable TV provider in the U.S. but unlike Charter or Comcast, the traditional cable companies, YouTube can't afford to wait this out or just not carry the Disney channels to make a point. In other words, as my Puck colleague Julia Alexander wrote last week, Disney probably needs YouTube more than YouTube needs Disney. But on the other hand, this fight coincides with the launch of the ESPN standalone app where you can get all those sports without a cable subscription. Disney would very much like sports fans to pay for that app. There's Hulu Live and fubu, services that Disney now owns. So the conspiracy theory out there is that Disney may actually want to fight with YouTube and get more people into the ESPN app. Not sure about that. By most estimates, it's a $2 billion a year relationship with YouTube TV. Not something you want to just go away. But the cost of sports rights for ESPN are going up by a lot. So Disney probably should get more from its carriers. Right? And YouTube TV is a growing part of YouTube. They call it a priority at the company. And if Google really wants to own the entire brand video ecosystem, the subscription channels business is a decent sized part of that. So incentives on both sides here. Who's going to win this fight? We've got Lukas Shaw from Bloomberg back again today. We'll discuss a little bit of the Warner Brothers sale update, but Mostly it's Disney versus YouTube and who's got the leverage now from the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the. All right, we are here with Lukas Shaw from Bloomberg. Welcome back, Lucas. It's been a while. I was off last week. Missed a little event that happened with the Los Angeles Dodgers. How many times have you been served on social media with videos of the Will Smith home run, the Miguel Rojas home run, or the very close play at the plate?
- [04:24]
C
My entire feed on Twitter threads and Instagram. Mostly Twitter and threads. I'm only getting Dodger material, but mine goes way deeper than just those three.
- [04:35]
A
Oh, yeah? Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. The Freddie Freeman doing the worm, the Kike Hernandez interviews, all of it. It's been a pretty glorious week and a half on social media for me.
- [04:45]
C
Yeah, I have to admit something. So I left your birthday party on Saturday night.
- [04:49]
A
Yeah, but it was my birthday. I shared it with Kris Jenner. We had the same Birthday party. Yes.
- [04:54]
C
And as my fiance basically napped in the car next to me, I sat there and rewatched. I was like, what can I do for the 40 minute drive home? I've listened to a lot of music today and I rewatched innings one, two, and maybe part of three of game seven of the World Series, because I'm a lunatic.
- [05:10]
A
That's Both sad and 100% predictable. Yes. So, all right, but this is not a Dodgers podcast. This is an entertainment business podcast. And we are talking today. Couple topics, but first, let's dive into the YouTube Disney standoff. This is now in its 10th day. The 30th was the first day of this carriage blackout. I hate covering these things.
- [05:35]
C
They're the worst.
- [05:36]
A
They are the worst because they're always resolved. The breathless headlines, the saber rattling, the statements.
- [05:43]
C
Every single one of these is gonna change the television business forever. And yet, I will admit, I went into this and I. When I. When I'd have, you know, conversations with people at Disney and YouTube, I'd be like, okay, is this going to end like all the others, where you're going to saber rattle and then you'll end up settling and nothing will really change? But this has gone on way longer and gotten far more acrimonious than I thought it was going to because you have arguably the two most powerful companies on either side of this type of negotiation negotiating.
- [06:14]
A
Yes. And the incentives are just so off here. I mean, back in the day when we would cover these things, these businesses were so important to both sides of the equation. Obviously important to the channel owners. They need the carriage to make the money that justifies the cost of content and the whole thing. But the cable companies, DirecTV, Comcast, Spectrum, they needed it just as much. And now YouTube TV is a tiny wart on the inside of the palm of Google. Like, it could be excised and the share price would do zero. What kind of a situation does that create? Like, okay, you want to fight with us, fight with us.
- [07:02]
C
Okay, you're right that obviously this dispute does not matter to Alphabet Incorporated.
- [07:08]
A
It does not. $350 billion in revenue each year. You know how much of that comes from YouTube TV?
- [07:15]
C
But they do care a lot about YouTube. And YouTube TV has become a huge priority for YouTube. So I do think it matters. But you were trying to tee up that you think the balance of power is off, such that Disney needs YouTube more than YouTube needs Disney. Right?
- [07:29]
A
I think that is 100% true. Right.
- [07:32]
C
Which is why when you normally see these disputes, the Programmer wins at some point.
- [07:38]
A
Yes. This was like a Les Moonves annual tradition at CBS back in the day. There would be a carriage fight. He would ask for all sorts of.
- [07:46]
C
Outrageous demands, and he'd time the deal to football season. And if you were Comcast or Charter or any company, you have angry customers saying, why can't I watch football on Sundays?
- [07:57]
A
Yes. It was part of the model, especially.
- [07:59]
C
When he was trying to get retransmissions fees, which is a subject so boring we do not need to go into it.
- [08:04]
A
No, but important, because he invented a new fee and he got everyone to pay it. So, yes.
- [08:11]
C
Related question. Who do you think is winning in the court of public opinion?
- [08:16]
A
That is a good question, because I actually also think that it's YouTube, which is different than usual, because in traditional carriage disputes, everybody hates their cable company. They just don't care. And they're like, whatever, if I can't get it here, maybe I'll switch. I know it was harder to switch back in the day, but the sentiment towards the traditional cable companies was always so negative. And who is Disney? Disney is Peyton Manning. Disney is Quinta Brunson. Disney is Joe Buck and Troy Aikman. All of these personalities, you know, and you want the content. And they always had the advantage because they could go right to people and say, listen, these stars are telling you this carriage dispute is hurting everybody, so settle it. And they had the kind of bully pulpit. Now, I think the sentiment. People generally like YouTube. They generally think that YouTube TV, Craig's one of them. He's praised YouTube TV on this show because it's the best.
- [09:12]
C
It's the best. It's not cheaper. It's just now, it used to be cheaper.
- [09:15]
A
Well, it's cheaper, but not as much cheaper as it was.
- [09:17]
C
It really is just a good product. And so I'm one of them. Where, like, I have YouTube TV and I have now had to miss a national Laker game. I won't be able to watch Monday Night Football tonight, and I'm not switching to another inferior provider.
- [09:32]
A
Do you agree, though, that the balance of power shifts then when the sentiment towards the provider is more positive than it used to be?
- [09:40]
C
Somewhat.
- [09:40]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's still not Peyton Manning. Say, like, call your cable company or.
- [09:44]
C
I don't get the sense that people are mad at Disney and blaming them for the fight program, per se. But I don't think it's as obvious that people are going to blame YouTube as it might have been with one of the other cable companies.
- [10:01]
A
Yeah, I mean, our Frequent guest Rich Greenfield said this dispute is not that painful for Google. Two weekends without college football and two weeks without Monday Night Football. As long as their consumers stay with them, it's fine. I don't know more than that. I think it's going to be a problem.
- [10:19]
C
But okay, yeah, look, I think if you are a YouTube TV customer and you essentially, ESPN, for all of its kind of bigger existential problems, has the best collection of sports in the world. And it's especially true right now in the fall between college football, pro football, start of the NBA season.
- [10:38]
A
Yeah, and I get the argument they have had to pay through the nose to keep and expand these offerings. So why shouldn't the carriers pay pay more?
- [10:47]
C
Yeah. And the other argument would be, well, you can then just go, ESPN just launched their sports service. And while, okay, abc, fx, that stuff all matters a little bit. But the real issue here is live sports. That's what people are using YouTube TV for. You can buy ESPN, the standalone streaming.
- [11:04]
A
Service that has led to some conspiracy theory thinking that maybe Disney wants this to drag on. Maybe they want to direct more people to ESPN app and to Hulu Live, to Fubo, these services that they own and are essentially competing with YouTube TV. Now. Do you believe that?
- [11:27]
C
No, not really.
- [11:28]
A
I don't either. I mean, it's. By most estimates, it's a $2 billion a year deal with YouTube TV. Like, you don't put that kind of money at risk to prop up your new streaming service.
- [11:39]
C
What do you think is more likely for someone to switch from YouTube TV to another service or to sign up for ESPN?
- [11:47]
A
I actually think signing up for ESPN might be popular because it's easy. It's exactly what you want. Damn it, I can't watch Monday Night Football. How do I watch it? Oh, just sign up for ESPN and maybe I'll keep it. Maybe I'll turn it off once this fight is over.
- [12:05]
C
Yeah, I met one of my first Fubo customers last night.
- [12:08]
A
Oh, you did?
- [12:09]
C
Yeah.
- [12:09]
A
Give us the demo 30s.
- [12:12]
C
Like my. My contemporaries, my peers. It was a good. A good friend of Camilla's and her husband.
- [12:17]
A
And did you do a proper interview? Like, why did you sign up? How did you know about it?
- [12:21]
C
I really wanted to, but it was the end of a dinner party and I. I also was trying to think about a way to phrase it where I didn't feel like a dick being like, wait, you are a Fubo customer.
- [12:30]
A
You didn't drop everything and say, hold on, we need to have a real interview here.
- [12:37]
C
So When Comcast and YouTube TV were in a dispute earlier this year, right? It was over this thing called ingestion, which we don't need to re explain. There have been fights between kind of Spanish speaking networks and over tearing and all of that. The thing that I still don't quite understand in this case is they're saying it's just all about rates and if it's really just about money, that's not the basis for this big of a dispute.
- [13:06]
A
Just to be clear, Disney is saying that they are offering what they call fair terms that are in line with more than 500 other distributors that have renewed their agreements since last summer. Now YouTube says that that is quote, fundamentally misrepresenting the facts. They say that they're asking YouTube to pay a rate that is above what Charter and DirecTV pay for the ABC networks and a rate that is higher than what they charge Hulu and Fubo, which Disney owns.
- [13:36]
C
But still you're basically arguing over a few cents a month or a dollar. I don't know the exact terms but usually that is something that negotiations olve.
- [13:47]
A
Unless you're YouTube and you're like whatever.
- [13:50]
C
Yeah, but obviously YouTube and Google come from it in the broader sense of position of power. But do you feel that all of the fights that they're cause when this, when a lot of these, remember back in the day we had these so called skinny bundles, right, that were supposed to improve upon cable by giving you fewer channels at a lower price.
- [14:11]
A
That's what these negotiations are all about. Typically now it's like the whole Warner thing where they had to, you know, renew but offer their streaming service as part of the package. And Disney has done that where they offer Disney ad tier as part of spectrum. Now as you know, that was in the negotiation, but do you.
- [14:28]
C
Because YouTube is the YouTube more so than Disney is the company that has been in dispute after dispute this year. Do you see that as a sign that they are under pressure to turn that into a profitable division? Or you just think it's they're using their market power for the hell of it? Because there's a way of framing it where it's like it's not from a position of strength, it's from a position of sort of corporation corporate pressure.
- [14:51]
A
I think they are used to being the 800 pound gorilla in negotiations. Whether it's for advertising terms or you know, they are the biggest player in that space, in the media space. And when a company like Disney comes along and expects to be treated better than other media companies, you have Google saying, well why? Like why? We're the largest media company by every single metric now, so why should Disney get special treatment here, right?
- [15:23]
C
Yeah, could be.
- [15:24]
A
And the question is, how does Disney hurt them?
- [15:27]
C
The only way is sports fans getting fed up and blaming YouTube.
- [15:30]
A
You think so? I mean, there are other ways Disney could pull its content off of regular YouTube. You know, Pat McAfee has a pretty big channel on YouTube. There's a lot of Jimmy Kimmel highlights on YouTube. Does that hurt them? I don't think so.
- [15:44]
C
First of all, there is no one media company where if they took their stuff off of YouTube, it would matter to YouTube. I was having this conversation with someone recently. The only way it would hurt YouTube is if it led to a cascade of companies doing that. Basically every major Hollywood company pulled this stuff off YouTube. And one, to be clear, it still wouldn't really damage the business of YouTube very much, but it would be a huge reputational risk.
- [16:11]
A
And maybe advertising, they sell ads at a higher clip on those, on that content than they do on some of the user generated stuff.
- [16:18]
C
But the odds of that happening are infinitesimal, if not zero.
- [16:22]
A
Why would the others do that?
- [16:23]
C
And even within the Disney ecosystem, like, is the talent going to be okay, let's say you have a new show coming up and you're using, you need to use YouTube to promote it with the trailers and all that. Are you going to be, is the creator of that show going to be mad? It's sort of like the take Taylor Swift. TikTok question.
- [16:39]
A
Yeah. And we saw how that ended up.
- [16:41]
C
Now there's probably no single artist with Taylor Swift's pull in the Disney portfolio.
- [16:46]
A
Yeah. Disney is not the Taylor Swift of video. There are lots of different players and I'm sure if you are Comcast and NBCUniversal, you're looking at this standoff as a plus for you. If people can't watch Monday Night Football, they're maybe more likely to watch Sunday Night Football or watch clips of their shows on YouTube or something like that. Yeah.
- [17:06]
C
Do you think that like with some of the filmmakers who, where YouTube matters, but not like so much for promoting the movie. Like if Disney had to go to Jim Cameron and be like, we know we have the new Avatar movie coming out, but we just, we're not going to have a YouTube presence. Do you think he would care?
- [17:20]
A
Yes, I do. Yeah. Because filmmakers want their movies to be promoted wherever possible. YouTube is the biggest promotional platform for movies because. Because the trailers are viewed millions and millions of times and you want every advantage you can get when you're a filmmaker. So how does this end, Lucas? Who bends first? Is this the government shutdown where the Democrats will cave at the end?
- [17:45]
C
As soon as they get through the midterms, they say, eh, we don't wanna do this anymore. Or not. Sorry, not the midterms, but whatever. You get what I'm saying? The election. The election. I don't know the answer to that.
- [17:56]
A
You don't have to know the answer.
- [17:57]
C
I don't see how Disney can really cave. No, you are right that ultimately if we want to make the government comparison, like YouTube is probably the trump in this circumstance where they're just like going to say, fuck it, you don't want it. Like, deal with it. But Disney has to be very careful about the precedents that it sets.
- [18:17]
A
Yeah, it's their core business.
- [18:19]
D
Are there any larger implications here outside of. This is just another typical carriage dispute.
- [18:24]
A
What it suggests is a future in which big tech owning media and owning distribution is going to squeeze content owners wherever they can. And we are headed to more of these and the balance of power shifting even more, in my opinion.
- [18:41]
C
Well, and the problem for Disney and others is that even though the growth of YouTube TV has slowed a bit, it feels inevitable that YouTube TV will be the number one live TV service. And when you factor in all the other key touch points they have, the control and power that they have over these other companies just grows by the day. We are entering a world where Amazon and YouTube and. Or Google and to like some extent Roku, though I don't think Roku has nearly as much power. Are the new Comcast charter gatekeepers. Only they aren't just sort of these neutral distributors. Like, they basically fully encircle the content holders and you, you fold in AI too.
- [19:27]
A
And that kind of power is pretty scary when you're a media company. Because you know what if YouTube decides that they're just not gonna serve the Avatar trailer to any users who would normally get it, they could do that. Not saying they would.
- [19:40]
C
They're not gonna do that.
- [19:41]
A
Not gonna do it. But they could. If it were Elon Musk running it, he would.
- [19:46]
C
Yes, well, Elon Musk is pettier than the people who run Google.
- [19:50]
A
But what I'm saying is that that is the power dynamic that Disney is dealing with here. Yeah, and we'll see. Iger's on the Manning cast tonight, so maybe he'll have a big announcement. This episode is brought to you by Starz Outlander. Blood of My Blood. An epic tale of love, legacy and longing. Starring Hermione Corfield, Jeremy Irvine, Harriet Slater and Jamie Roy. Variety rave's Blood of My Blood is lush, complex, beautifully shot and structured. And Los Angeles Times proclaims it's the ultimate period drama. Industry voters can access all episodes@starsfyc.com all right, the other big news last week, our guy, David Zaslav, CEO of Warner Bros. Discovery, he had an earnings call. Disclosed $150 million loss for the third quarter. But stock price keeps going up, not because of any fundamentals at the company, but because they're for sale. And the news headlines keep dropping about Netflix hiring a banking firm to look at the financials. Comcast is interested in parts of the business. You gotta feel bad for Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy at Warner Brothers. They had an excellent quarter. They had Superman, they had weapons, they had Conjuring. All hits. And then the earnings come out. This company is now divorced from its financials and is now trading and valued solely on whether it will be sold.
- [21:20]
C
Yeah, well, look, the studio numbers were really good and I think that that did fuel the optimism for the sort of. If they go forward with the spin the studios and streaming segment.
- [21:33]
A
Right.
- [21:33]
C
Like, it's weird to see the streaming business being flat and the studio business growing by a lot, but, yeah. That their tv. This company's always traded on the TV business and the TV business is a disaster.
- [21:46]
A
So it's just funny now. I mean, you didn't. You. You wrote in your newsletter last week that there's like a win for David Zaslav.
- [21:53]
C
I actually did think that. And I've had this conversation with people around it and in the Paramount guidance portfolio. I think that there's been a moment where he was winning the publicity war.
- [22:06]
A
Really?
- [22:07]
C
Yeah. For a little bit there.
- [22:08]
A
Give me evidence here. Because he's convinced people that there's gonna be a bidding war for his company.
- [22:13]
C
Because Paramount had to increase its offer three times and will have to do so again if it wants to get the deal done.
- [22:19]
A
Okay, but that's. I don't know. I feel like that's to be expected. This is gonna be a back and forth for the next three months of, oh, will they go higher? Who else is in? They're kicking the tires.
- [22:30]
C
Paramount has put them in a position where they now have to really explore a sale in a way that David Zaslav did not want to. But I do think that a lot of the press has talked about there being various suitors and the. The price having to go up. And even if a lot of those Suitors aren't real. Like, he has put Ellison in a position where he'd have to come in at a pretty big number to get the deal done. Unless he can be patient and say, oh, you think you have a better solution? You go ahead and do it. But if he wants it now, he will have to pay more than I think he thought he would initially.
- [23:05]
A
I think you and I, if we hired bankers, could approach Warner Discovery and they would let us see their financials.
- [23:11]
C
That is certainly true.
- [23:13]
A
It's actually not a bad strategy. Go to some banking sources and say.
- [23:17]
C
Like, will you front us to look at the numbers?
- [23:19]
A
Yes, let us look at the numbers.
- [23:22]
C
Who can you get us a bunch of debt from?
- [23:24]
A
I don't. Yeah, exactly. We'd probably have to sign NDAs, though. That's not really what we'd want to do. No, but. All right, Lucas, thanks for coming on.
- [23:31]
C
Thanks, Matt.
- [23:34]
A
Today's call sheet is presented by Peacock. From 1972 to 1978, 33 young men were kidnapped, murdered and buried under their killer's house. And no one was the wiser. The new Peacock original limited series Devil in Disguise trail. John Wayne Gacy reveals the conflicting layers of Gacy's life while weaving in heart rending stories of his victim. The LA Times calls it a compelling story about one of the darkest chapters in America's crime archives. Okay, onto the call sheet. Craig, was that a sponsor of the call sheet that I just read?
- [24:07]
D
Yeah, we're big time now. We have a presenting sponsorship for the call sheet and who better than John Wayne Gacy to be our sponsor?
- [24:13]
A
I know a serial killer show is sponsoring the call sheet. I don't know what to make of that, but okay, let's go on to something equally deadly.
- [24:23]
C
All's Fair.
- [24:24]
A
Have you been watching All's Fair on the Hulu?
- [24:27]
D
Well, much like a lot of the press of these stars doesn't translate to box office. I have seen all of the press and all of the clips of All's Fair all over the Internet, but no, I've not watched the show.
- [24:36]
A
No, I have not either. Although I kind of want to now. This is one of those that come along every once in a while that is so bad that it becomes a thing. Like media outlets are writing about. Like the top 10 jaw dropping lines from All's Fair. It's the Kim Kardashian legal drama that apparently is comedic for how bad it is. The scores on this are historically awful.17 on Metacritic. The user score is 1.8. Rotten Tomatoes has it at 4% IMDb at 2.9. These are all historically low. Ryan Murphy, man, not a good streak there. Disney paid a lot of money to lure him back to Disney. He was at Netflix, created the monster franchise there, and a bunch of stuff that nobody watched, and Disney got him back. And since then, man, it has not been going great for Ryan Murphy. And my prediction is that all's Fair will be the third Disney show in a row that will not get a second season after Mid Century Modern, which was a comedy on Hulu that he did with the Will and Grace guys. That one lasted one season, canceled. And Dr. Odyssey, which was an ABC people having problems on a boat show that got a lot of negative critical reaction and did not get a second season. So three strikes in a row. He also did the American Horror Story or American Sports Story, Aaron Hernandez show that didn't get much love either on fx. So Ryan Murphy, since he's been back at Disney, not great.
- [26:08]
D
Do you think this is a. Ryan Murphy is too busy and is stretched too thin. Do you think this is his interest in the types of shows he make are no longer popular? What do you think the issue is here?
- [26:19]
A
Good question. I mean, these. There was a time when Ryan Murphy was perceived as doing the elevated version of all these shows. He could get attention. He had splashy elements. You know, this one has Kim Kardashian, has Glenn Close, has Niecy Nash.
- [26:34]
D
How did they get Naomi Watts in the show?
- [26:37]
A
He has a reputation for doing quality work for older actresses in particular, and they love working with him. He also did the Swans show, that feud show, Capote vs. The Swans, which, you know, got a couple Emmy nominations, but not on the level of what previous Ryan Murphy used to do. He used to balance populism with. With the prestige and would get Emmy nominations and wins. And, you know, he did the OJ show and Glee and like, there were, you know, there was a time when he was, by some, considered the new Norman Lear. I've never been a big fan of his stuff, but who cares what I think? They resonated and he was a power because of it. But, man, you can't keep doing these turds. People are gonna. You're not gonna justify the. The expense. And he's very expensive as a producer.
- [27:26]
D
Do you think this has permanently tainted his ability to continue selling shows or.
- [27:31]
A
No, this one is a head scratcher because Disney put a lot of marketing into this show and he got a lot of attention with the Kim Kardashian casting and putting this big cast together. It's not cheap. And I do think it hurts the brand. I do think they will think twice about giving him a flyer on what he wants to do there. Now, I should say at Netflix, he still has the monster franchise and they had the Ed Gein one that just came out and was number one. I don't think even that one got the attention that previous ones did. And the shine is sort of off him. He has a whole bunch of other stuff going on. He's still doing the American Horror Story stuff. I don't know if they'll do a second season of grotesquerie, but he's still got that show. There are other things in the works that he's got. I'm not worried about Ryan Murphy as a producer, but I think the days of Ryan Murphy as being perceived to have some kind of special sauce, I think those are over. It's funny, too. I think the Hulu PR department was working overtime. They got the trades to run this announcement that it was the, quote, Hulu Original's biggest scripted series premiere in three years, amassing 3.2 million views globally after three days of screening.
- [28:39]
D
Well, and now you got to lean in and say, oh, this was. This is camp. This is all on purpose.
- [28:44]
A
We mentioned it's supposed to be a comedy. You guys just, you know, the critics didn't get it. It was supposed to be a meta comedy. I know, but most. Some of the critics are like, yeah, this is so bad. It's not even camp. Like, it's not even fun. It's just. They're just trying to get memed. They're like, oh, the Internet's a thing. We need to just have lines that are so outrageous. We'll get memed and everyone will talk about us.
- [29:03]
D
That's the last resort. Now when you try and fail at something, you just pretend it was all for the memes and spam it online.
- [29:08]
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All right, enough of that. Today's call sheet was presented by Peacock. Devil in John Wayne Gacy, which Roger Ebert calls an important watch, explores the grief, guilt, and trauma of the victim's loved ones and exposes the systemic failures that allowed Gacy's reign of terror. The Hollywood Reporter says Michael Chernis gives an impressively unsettling performance as John Wayne Gacy. Stream the critically acclaimed limited series now only on Peacock. Okay, that's it for today's show. I want to thank my guest, Lucas Shaw, producer Craig Horbeck. Artistry, Jesse Lopez. And I want to thank you. We'll see you a couple more times this week.