Podcast Summary: "YouTube vs. Disney: Who Needs Whom More?"

Podcast: The Town with Matthew Belloni — The Ringer
Date: November 10, 2025
Guests: Lukas Shaw (Bloomberg), Craig Horbeck (producer)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the ongoing carriage dispute between YouTube TV (Google) and Disney—a standoff lasting over 10 days and impacting millions of subscribers who are missing out on marquee Disney-owned channels like ESPN and ABC. Host Matthew Belloni discusses atypical dynamics in this conflict, how both companies’ incentives have shifted, and the bigger implications for the entertainment business as Big Tech increasingly controls video distribution. Additional topics include Warner Bros. Discovery's pending sale and Ryan Murphy’s bumpy stint at Disney.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the YouTube TV vs. Disney Standoff Is Different

• Traditional “carriage disputes” featured cable providers and majors like CBS, but now YouTube TV (owned by Google) is involved—a very different strategic position due to Google's vast revenue and product ecosystem.
• YouTube TV's ~10 million subscribers are a minor portion of Google’s overall $350B annual revenue, yet YouTube TV is a growing priority for the company.
• Belloni notes that, "Disney probably needs YouTube more than YouTube needs Disney,” but the reverse incentive exists as YouTube TV’s ambitions grow.

Memorable Quote

“YouTube TV is a tiny wart on the inside of the palm of Google. Like, it could be excised and the share price would do zero.”
— Matt Belloni [06:13]

2. Shifting Balance of Power and Public Sentiment

• In classic disputes, channel owners like Disney had leverage since customers mostly blamed their cable company.

• Now, YouTube TV has positive sentiment (“it's the best”—Craig [09:12]) and cord-switching is easier, softening Disney’s traditional upper hand.

• Belloni remarks:

  “In traditional carriage disputes, everybody hates their cable company... Now, I think the sentiment—people generally like YouTube.” [08:16]

• While some viewers are missing games, many are reluctant to switch services due to the perceived quality of YouTube TV.

Public Opinion

“I don't get the sense that people are mad at Disney and blaming them for the fight, per se. But I don’t think it’s as obvious that people are going to blame YouTube...”
— Lukas Shaw [09:44]

3. Monetary Stakes & ESPN App Conspiracy

• The dispute reportedly covers about $2B/year in payments for Disney, making it unlikely they would risk the relationship solely to drive users to new services (like the ESPN standalone app).
• Conspiracy: Some speculate Disney wants a protracted fight to benefit its direct-to-consumer offerings.
• Both hosts dismiss this as unlikely:

  “You don't put that kind of money at risk to prop up your new streaming service.”
  — Matt Belloni [11:27]

4. The Business Realities for Both Sides

• YouTube/Google:

  • Still negotiating hard, seeing themselves as the “800-pound gorilla” now in media.

    “We’re the largest media company by every single metric now, so why should Disney get special treatment here, right?”
    — Matt Belloni [14:50]

• Disney:

  • Needs the deal to keep valuable sports rights profitable, but doesn’t want to set a cheap precedent.
  • Lucas on Disney’s possible moves:

    "The only way [Disney can hurt YouTube] is sports fans getting fed up and blaming YouTube." [15:26]

5. What if Disney Pulled All Its Content from YouTube?

• The threat is empty: YouTube’s business is too vast and diversified for any single content owner to matter.

  “There is no one media company where if they took their stuff off of YouTube, it would matter to YouTube.”
  — Lukas Shaw [15:44]

• The reputational damage would only escalate if ALL Hollywood companies did the same, which is deemed impossible.

6. Big Tech as the New Gatekeepers

• Lukas predicts YouTube TV will likely become the No.1 live TV service, with power shifting toward distributors like Google, Amazon, and (to a lesser degree) Roku.
• Consequence: Tech giants don’t just distribute—they also control algorithms, search, advertising, and user access, giving them immense leverage over media companies.
• Belloni sums up the threat:

  “Big tech owning media and owning distribution is going to squeeze content owners wherever they can. And we are headed to more of these and the balance of power shifting even more, in my opinion.” [18:23]

7. Warner Bros. Discovery Sale Update (21:19)

• Brief pivot to discuss Warner Bros. Discovery’s solid studio performance but overall financial woes.
• The stock is rising, not due to fundamentals, but speculation over a sale to Netflix or Comcast.
• Lukas notes that a state of continuous ‘potential suitors’ can drive prices up, but not all interested parties are serious.

8. Ryan Murphy’s Disney Losing Streak & “All’s Fair” Flop (24:22)

• The Hulu/Disney legal drama starring Kim Kardashian is critically panned, following other recent Ryan Murphy misses.
• Discussion of how streaming PR now spins negative reception as either intentional “camp” or meme bait.
• Belloni notes Murphy’s high cost and diminishing returns may alter his future prospects at Disney, saying:

  “You can't keep doing these turds. People are gonna—you’re not gonna justify the expense.” [27:25]

Memorable Quotes

• “YouTube TV is a tiny wart on the inside of the palm of Google. Like, it could be excised and the share price would do zero.”
  — Matt Belloni [06:13]

• “In traditional carriage disputes, everybody hates their cable company... Now, I think the sentiment—people generally like YouTube.”
  — Matt Belloni [08:16]

• “There is no one media company where if they took their stuff off of YouTube, it would matter to YouTube.”
  — Lukas Shaw [15:44]

• “Big tech owning media and owning distribution is going to squeeze content owners wherever they can. And we are headed to more of these and the balance of power shifting even more, in my opinion.”
  — Matt Belloni [18:23]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:34] – Episode theme & why carriage disputes matter
• [05:10] – Beginning the YouTube TV vs. Disney standoff segment
• [06:13] – Relative importance of YouTube TV in Google’s portfolio
• [08:16] – Public sentiment toward YouTube TV vs. classic cable
• [11:03] – Conspiracy theories and ESPN’s streaming ambitions
• [14:50] – Google/YouTube’s negotiating tactics & market power
• [15:44] – Why Disney’s threat to pull all content is weak
• [18:23] – Larger implications of tech as media gatekeepers
• [21:19] – Warner Bros. Discovery’s sale and financial context
• [24:22] – “All’s Fair” flop and Ryan Murphy’s recent record

Conclusion

This episode provides a crisp, candid look at the high-stakes battle between YouTube TV and Disney, revealing how the power balance in media distribution is shifting rapidly as tech companies play a bigger role. While Disney still has valuable content (especially sports), YouTube’s scale, product quality, and consumer goodwill have changed the dynamics of traditional carriage disputes. The bottom line: media companies must adapt as Big Tech cements its place as gatekeepers—not just distributors—in the modern entertainment ecosystem.