YouTube’s NFL Debut, A Surprise Box-Office Hit at the Sphere, and Warner Bros. Merger Candidates

Summary

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The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode: “YouTube’s NFL Debut, A Surprise Box-Office Hit at the Sphere, and Warner Bros. Merger Candidates”

Release Date: September 8, 2025
Guest: Lucas Shaw (Bloomberg)
Host: Matthew Belloni (Puck/The Ringer)

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Overview

In this fast-paced lightning round episode, Matt Belloni and Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw break down three major industry stories:

• YouTube’s first exclusive NFL broadcast and what it means for sports streaming.
• Eye-popping (and contentious) revenue numbers for “The Wizard of Oz” at Las Vegas’ Sphere, and whether this new 4D movie experience is the future of moviegoing.
• Billionaire cable king John Malone’s strategic moves as Warner Bros. Discovery splits in two, and speculation on the next wave of media consolidation.

Throughout, Belloni and Shaw bring deep industry knowledge, exclusive reporting, and lively, irreverent banter.

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Segment 1: NFL's YouTube Debut – “A Pretty Big Win”

[03:37 – 08:11]

• Historic Stream:
  The LA Chargers vs. Kansas City Chiefs game from Brazil was the first-ever NFL game exclusively streamed on YouTube, pulling 17.3 million viewers (16.2 million in the U.S. per Nielsen).

  • “I think this is pretty big win for YouTube…a comparable audience to a regular game.” – Belloni [04:35]

• Consumer Experience:

  • Shaw notes it felt “cool to open YouTube and be able to click on and watch an NFL game.” [04:14]
  • Belloni points out the platform was “confusing” for some older viewers but is “a good first effort.”

• Viewership Data and Measurement Controversy:

  • Some expect higher international numbers, but timing (a night U.S. game) suppressed global viewership.
  • Discussion on Nielsen’s new “big Data plus panel” method. There’s skepticism from the NFL and some broadcast partners, concerned about potentially “artificially inflated” numbers.
    • “Maybe we should have someone from Nielsen on the show because I don’t know what to make of these…revised ratings.” – Belloni [06:37]
  • Shaw summarizes: “Anytime an entity complains or fights with Nielsen, it’s usually a contract dispute…because as the number of pay TV households plummeted, sports leagues and TV networks didn’t want the ratings for their sporting events to go way down.” [06:44]
  • They both lament the lack of a truly independent, trusted measurement system.

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Segment 2: The Sphere’s Surprising Box-Office – “Vegas Money Is Different”

[08:11 – 19:47]

• Inside the Numbers:

  • The re-imagined “Wizard of Oz,” now a 70-minute, AI-enhanced spectacle, is drawing 4,000–5,000 attendees daily at up to $200 per ticket—about $2 million in daily gross. [08:11]
    • “Any [theater] in America would kill for those numbers.” – Belloni [09:05]
  • Belloni is skeptical about sustaining this pace:
    • “You can’t extrapolate over years from the first two weeks…Tourists are there and they’re checking it out. But is the Wizard of Oz still going to be grossing $2 million a day in a year or two years?” [09:44]

• Sustainability and Business Model:

  • Shaw: The Sphere needs movies—music alone can’t make the venue profitable long-term.
    • “If they can even have it more than half full at a slightly reduced ticket price, then it works. The movies are the engine of the Sphere.” [10:33]

• Hollywood’s Appetite and Creative Tensions:

  • The Sphere aims to license more IP and entice studios, but faces creative and legal pushback—especially from directors’ guilds and filmmakers upset over “butchering” beloved films.
    • On adding famous faces via AI: “…this is a butchering of this movie. Essentially they were saying, like this filmmaker had no say in what this presentation was…People already are saying this was a desecration of the wizard of Oz.” – Belloni [12:01]
  • The prospect of other blockbusters:
    • “If they did [Star Wars] right…I don’t think average people care about the sanctity of the wizard of Oz.” – [12:54], C (unidentified commentator)
    • Licensing and creative control would be a challenge for newer, more protective studios and filmmakers.

• Who Is Paying?:

  • Shaw wonders who is shelling out $150–$200: “It’s Vegas, man. Money is treated differently in Vegas. People do crazy things.” – Belloni [14:49]

• The “Future of Moviegoing”?

  • Discussion if this is the beginning of more 4D, augmented-reality movie experiences.
    • Belloni: “I think we are going to go this direction as AI and other stunt-type technologies allow for different presentations…but it’s not totally new…The Sphere is a tourist attraction…The Sphere reported an operating loss of $83 million last quarter…The Sphere is not proven that it is a ongoing long term business. They need to do that first and maybe this will help them get there.” [18:43]
  • Shaw: “I guess I’m kind of skeptical. Because it still feels stunty.” [19:47]

Notable Moment:

• Imagining future 4D adaptations: “Jaws would be kind of cool…Dunkirk, or something like that would be very cool.” – Lucas Shaw [16:07–16:12]

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Segment 3: Warner Bros. Discovery Breakup & Media Merger Chess

[20:12 – 26:49]

• John Malone’s Memoir and Messaging:

  • Malone, the “cable cowboy,” appears to position the spin-off of Warner Bros. Discovery’s studio/streamer from its cable business as a path toward a sale—possibly to David Ellison’s Skydance.
    • Belloni: “He would very much like somebody to buy the studio and streamer portion of Warner Brothers Discovery…Ellison wants Warner Brothers and Malone is going to be more than happy to sell it to him.” [21:06]
    • Shaw: “The split that they're doing is all about, you can come and buy one, you can come and buy the other.” [21:20]

• Who Buys What?

  • Discussion of possible buyers for the “Krapco” (cable nets) and studio sides post-split.
  • The emergence of Skydance as a “media rollup” brand:
    • “Paramount, a Skydance Corporation…TikTok, a Skydance Corporation. Warner Brothers, A Skydance Corporation. That seems to be the plan.” – Belloni [22:26]

• Antitrust and Regulatory Questions:

  • Antitrust would likely not be a stumbling block, since Warner doesn’t own a broadcast network; cable market share is less crucial now.
  • The conversation highlights how much the regulatory landscape has shifted due to streaming and fragmentation.

• Malone’s Legacy:

  • Is Malone orchestrating a “swan song” exit? Shaw is unconvinced:
    • “You don't write a memoir unless you recognize you're kind of at the end. Near the end. But he still cares, right? He just fired Greg Maffei…You don't do that unless you're still paying attention.” [25:49]
  • Belloni jokes, “If I'm Zaslav, I'm sending him health supplements and, you know, longevity cryogenic chambers to keep him alive. Because Zaslav's incredible run has been due to the backing of John Malone.” [26:07]

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Notable Quotes & Banter

• On Football Streaming:

  • “My initial reaction on the number was I thought it would be bigger, but I think I've revised the opinion. It's a good first effort.” – Lucas Shaw [04:23]
  • “I know people that had to be told that you can watch YouTube on your TV.” – Matthew Belloni [05:28]

• On The Sphere:

  • “Tourists are there and they’re checking it out. But is the wizard of Oz still going to be grossing $2 million a day in a year or two years?” – Belloni [09:44]
  • “This is just the new version of Carrot Top or Siegfried and Roy…The question is, how long can it go?” – Belloni [14:49]

• On Hollywood Control:

  • “If you did that and George Lucas went absolutely crazy and told his fans, never see this, it’s an abomination — that would matter.” – Belloni [13:04]
  • “What if he just did a deal with Steven Spielberg and took a bunch of his movies? Indiana Jones would probably be fun there. Jaws would be fun, but [Spielberg] would want to be involved.” – Shaw [17:12]

• On Media Mergers:

  • “You can come and buy one, you can come and buy the other.” – Shaw on the Warner Bros. Discovery split [21:20]
  • “Malone seems to know that something is up…he thinks the Ellison family will be very important to the next generation of media. AKA they're going to buy a whole bunch of shit.” – Belloni [22:49]

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Bonus Segment: CBS News, Kristi Noem, and Bari Weiss

[27:08 – 30:34]

Belloni and producer Craig briefly address CBS News controversies:

• Editing controversy around an interview with Kristi Noem.
• Paramount’s likely purchase of Bari Weiss’s Free Press, with Weiss joining CBS. Belloni predicts brief tenure for Weiss due to cultural clash.
  • “…She will say after a year that she needs to go back to her roots as a, you know, anti mainstream media force. And it will be very on brand for her to bail on CBS after a year.” – Belloni [30:16]

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Final Thoughts

This episode puts a spotlight on the evolving media landscape—how sports find new homes on streaming platforms, how theatrical experiences adapt to survive, and how the biggest players jockey for dominance through deals, brands, and personalities. The tone is brisk, occasionally skeptical, and always rooted in hard-nosed industry savvy.

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Key Timestamps:

• [03:37] – NFL on YouTube opens the season
• [08:11] – The Sphere’s Wizard of Oz revenue breakdown
• [20:12] – John Malone/Warner Bros-Discovery merger candidates
• [27:08] – Bonus: CBS News & Bari Weiss

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Transcript

[A]

If you care about Hollywood, and I assume you do, if you're listening to the Town, you should really be getting the whole story about Hollywood. That's what you get with Puck. I'm a founding partner Puck and I write a newsletter called what I'm Hearing. It's got exclusive news for insiders and analysis of the biggest stories. Puck has a bunch of great journalists. We just hired Kim Masters, who also covers Hollywood from the inside, plus media, sports, fashion, politics and finance. It's a must have for plugged in people. Fans of the Town get a discount on the description page of this episode or at Puck News thetown. Go further into Hollywood by becoming a Puck member today. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Your home is more than a space. It's where you express yourself like we've all got our movie night set up. I definitely do. I've got my chair, I've got my popcorn, I've got my nice drink area. Everything's set up perfectly. Whatever your vibe, Wayfair has every style for every home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor and more all in one place. I recently got some great stuff from Wayfair. Ordered some nice outdoor furniture. We got a rug that looks nice with the fire pit. We've got some flower stuff goes all around the outdoor barbecue. Very cool. Lots of entertaining this summer. Wayfair. Big part of it. Get inspired with room ideas and easy to shop collections. All with everyday ways to save. Shop everything [e-mail] with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That's W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. It is Monday, September 8th. Greetings from Toronto. I'm here for the film festival, but the news around town isn't just which films are getting long standing ovations here. Spoiler alert. All of them. We're gonna talk about a couple different topics today. First, it's officially the fall TV season, which doesn't really mean anything anymore. Except it's NFL season, which definitely means something. It's the first NFL season where every single game is available on a streaming service. Big implications there. And we have big Numbers from the YouTube exclusive game on Friday. We'll get into that. Also, there are some pretty interesting and surprising numbers from the first couple weeks of the wizard of Oz at the Sphere in Vegas. If you remember James Dolan, the proprietor of the Sphere, he spent about $100 million and editing down the famous movie to 70 minutes. Some would say butchering it and using AI to enhance it to an interactive experience. He's charging up to $200 a pop in Vegas. People are paying it to the tune of $2 million a day. So we'll break that down. Also, we've got some interesting comments from this past week from John Malone. If you're not familiar, he's the billionaire media investor and so called cable cowboy who helped engineer the merger of Warner Brothers and Discovery. Now he's trying to get investors excited about the split of that company into the studio and HBO side the crappy cable networks. Malone is on a press tour for his memoir and maybe laying the groundwork for more deals. Lots to discuss there. So for all three, we've got Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg back today. It's a lightning round pod. NFL On YouTube, the sphere as a movie theater and the John Malone playbook from the Ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. Okay. We are here with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg. Welcome back, Lucas. We missed you at the Oasis concert in LA this weekend.

[B]

I'm more upset that I didn't make it to Toronto, which I was actually supposed to go to, than the Oasis show. I did see a lot of people sharing on Instagram. Not a band that means that much to me.

[A]

Oh, come on. You know what? It was a Gen X 90s reunion. Just let us have it.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

Let us have it.

[B]

Yeah, please.

[A]

Have fun.

[B]

I, I'm like three to five years too young to give a shit about Oasis.

[A]

All right, we've got a lightning round today. Football lot going on. Football. Let's start with football. Okay. YouTube says that 17.3 million people watched the LA Chargers win against the Kansas City Chiefs on Friday from Brazil. And 16.2 million of those were in the U.S. according to Nielsen. What do we think about the first ever YouTube exclusive NFL game kicking off the season? Well, the day after and generating those kinds of numbers. They're up from last year's Friday game which appeared on Peacock.

[B]

As a consumer, it was kind of cool to open YouTube and be able to click on and watch an NFL game.

[A]

Maybe for you. I think a lot of older people.

[B]

Well, I was going to say I think for a lot of people it was confusing. You know, my initial reaction on the number was I thought it would be bigger, but I think I've revised the opinion. It's a good first effort.

[A]

Yeah, I think this is pretty big win for YouTube. I mean they didn't produce it. They had NBC produce the telecast There were no gigantic glitches. There was a little Mr. Beast action. So you knew it was YouTube. But I think that this is a win for the NFL and for YouTube. Getting a comparable audience to a regular game to find it on YouTube.

[B]

Are you surprised that the international number isn't bigger?

[A]

Yeah, a little bit. I would have thought. I mean, literally, like only about a million people watch outside of the U.S. i mean, we know football isn't huge elsewhere, but you would have thought with the accessibility of YouTube, that number would go up.

[C]

Yeah, but, yeah, but the international games always air in the morning in America. This game aired at night. So the timing didn't make sense for a lot of the international audiences.

[B]

No, the timing definitely wasn't great. But I feel like that number is even smaller than the international audience that Netflix delivered. Delivered for its Christmas game.

[A]

Yeah, although I think the timing was a little better on that. And plus, people are sitting around. This is an unusual night for football Friday night. It's not usually what you would think of for NFL. So I think just getting that kind of audience on a Friday to YouTube, I think that's pretty good. I think, you know, I know people that had to be told that you can watch YouTube on your TV. Like, oh yeah, you can get the.

[B]

App certainly better than the some of those initial Amazon Thursday night numbers.

[A]

Yeah. It does raise this larger issue about Nielsen and the ratings for this season because they are launching this what they're calling big Data plus panel, which is a new amalgamation of audience and you know, from their smart TV set top boxes and surveys. And the thinking is, is that it's supposed to increase the ratings across the board because they're now going to be capturing a more accurate snapshot of who is watching this. But the NFL is already complaining about this and some of the other non YouTube NFL partners were complaining about the ratings for this YouTube game, saying it was artificially inflated. So I don't know what to make Toto, maybe we should have someone from Nielsen on the show because I don't know what to make of these new revised ratings and how they relate to football.

[B]

I mean, anytime an entity complains or fights with Nielsen, it's usually a contract dispute where they either want to pay less money for the service or massage the numbers so that they look better and better. Right. A lot of the Nielsen out of home measurement, which has boosted the sports viewership in recent years, was for that reason because as the number of pay TV households plummeted, sports leagues and TV networks didn't want the ratings for their sporting events to go way down. So they're like, no, no, no, we're going to measure out of home viewing now.

[A]

Right, Right. And as much as these new competitors have popped up, they are still not Nielsen in terms of accepted metrics. But what they are doing is they're putting pressure on Nielsen to make its clients happier. And the way to make them happier is to formulate the audience in a way that boosts ratings.

[B]

Well, it's really crazy that we can't just have a service measure the number of people watching all of these things. Right. Like, people can complain about Netflix numbers or YouTube numbers or any of that, but at least like those are companies that can measure the number of people viewing and tell you how many people viewed.

[A]

Yeah, but why should we trust them? The whole point of Nielsen is that we can trust them because they are not beholden.

[B]

Well, they are to your point about the feeling pressure, they're a little bold.

[A]

That's the whole issue.

[B]

But yes, it would be much better if we could have an independent third party measurement system. And I. It just if feels like we can't get that.

[A]

All right, let's move on to our second topic. You did some reporting this weekend. The Sphere gave you some numbers on how well the new wizard of Oz is performing there. If you're not familiar, of course, the wizard of Oz in its, some people say butchered. The nice way of saying it is truncated version of the wizard of Oz, 70 minutes, AI enhanced to make it look good or at least look shiny. Or on the Sphere, giant screen with interactive elements. There's the tornado wind, there's apples that drop. There's all sorts of stunts in there. Jim Dolan is charging 200 bucks or up to 200 bucks for tickets to this thing. He's getting 4,000 to 5,000 people in there every day, generating about $2 million a day from just the one location. Any in America would kill for those numbers.

[B]

I actually did the math on that point and I was thinking about, I do think that there are theaters in the US that probably make more than that, but they don't keep the same share.

[A]

Sure, maybe like the AMC in Lincoln Square or like the Burbank or Century City AMC where there's tons of theaters and they're packed all day on a Saturday in the middle of summer. But this has been doing pretty robust business every day. Executives there at the Sphere are estimating that it will gross hundreds of millions of dollars over the next year or so and ultimately could top a billion dollars. Now I have thoughts on this.

[B]

Well, give me your thoughts. I did the reporting. Give me your thoughts.

[A]

I think they're full of shit. It's easy to say this after two weeks. And don't get me wrong, I am a proponent of the sphere. I think it's an amazing venue. I have now gone twice. You two and Backstreet Boys. Very different shows. But I think it's an amazing venue. And I think this is exactly the kind of thing they should be doing. Turning these movies into stunts, into theme park rides, into whatever you want to call it, and getting an audience in there to fill the time between big acts. But you can't extrapolate. Over years from the first two weeks, this has been highly publicized. Everybody in the Vegas area is curious what this is going to look like. Tourists are there and they're checking it out. But is the wizard of Oz still going to be grossing $2 million a day in a year or two years?

[B]

No, but it doesn't have to gross $2 million a day in a year. If they're dealing with typical movie theater occupancy levels of whatever. Adam Aaron said It was like 14% or 15%. That would be bad. But if they can even have it more than half full at a slightly reduced ticket price, then it works. I mean, the movies are the engine of the sphere. Because the sphere cannot make enough money on the music to justify it. It will lose money perpetually if it has to do that.

[A]

And they had the Aronofsky movie, and that did okay. But that's a new original movie.

[B]

Yeah. I think the question is, can they really play the wizard of Oz for like six months, nine months, a year? Or do they need to have two or three movies that they're cycling between at any given time? Right. Cause they do. What they do at the concert is like they have an extended residency. Right. Where the Backstreet Boys come and play for two or three months. But it probably would be more interesting if it wasn't just the wizard of Oz for nine months. Right.

[A]

Well, that's why they're putting out these numbers, is they want other studios to do deals with them, to edit the movies and AI Enhance them and make them into theme park rides. And they feel like if people think it's successful, then they're going to do more of this. Disney has not come to any deals with them. They've tried to get Disney movies because Disney wants more control and the guilds hate this thing. I got a statement from the dga. When they digitally put in the faces of Jim Dolan and David Zaslav saying, this is a butchering of this movie. Essentially they were saying, like this filmmaker had no say in what this presentation was. The filmmaker's long since dead. But if you're gonna put in Harry Potter movies like they wanna do, you're gonna have to get the sign off of J.K. rowling. You're gonna have to get the sign off of the filmmakers of all of those movies or else it's gonna become a big controversial thing. People already are saying this was a desecration of the wizard of Oz.

[B]

But do we think that those voices are gonna have a really negative impact on people who wanna go check it out? I get it. If it's a more contemporary movie and you've got like they couldn't reach. Had gotten a deal with Disney for Star Wars. Right. Which Disney now owns outright. George Lucas doesn't get to tell them what to do with it.

[C]

That would make $10 billion if Star wars was in the sphere.

[A]

A 70 minute version of Star wars in which the entire B plots is omitted.

[C]

But if they did it right. I don't. To be honest, I don't think average people care about the sanctity of the wizard of Oz.

[A]

No, no, no, no, they don't. That is absolutely true. But I'm saying that that's not the whole point. The point is if you did that and George Lucas went absolutely crazy and told his fans, never see this, it's an abomination that that would matter.

[B]

Yeah. But one of the reasons they couldn't do a deal with Disney is Disney wanted to have more creative input, which would also meant that they had to put up money. David Zaslav was happy to just say, look, this movie is 86 years old. Jimmy, were old pals, like, do what you want to do. Right. I think it does become more complicated if the studio wants to be involved.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Like Fast and Furious would be fun, right? Like if they went to Universal and were like, let's do the Fast and Furious movie in the sphere. But I bet Universal would want to have some control over how this existing property of theirs is used.

[A]

Sure. And also this is a license. You kind of intimated in your report that this is a perpetual license. That Dolan can have this movie as long as he wants. That cannot be true.

[B]

There is an end date, but I think with his sort of adaptation, he's got a lot of rights.

[A]

Okay, so he can play that adaptation forever.

[B]

No, I don't imagine forever.

[A]

You say this movie's old, but wizard of Oz is one of the most enduring properties that Warner still makes a lot of money on, licensing it all over the world and on streaming. So, like, they're not giving up the store here to have a hit for a few months in Vegas.

[B]

No, he can't do anything with the wizard of Oz. But this version of it, it's not like he can do a bunch of other stuff with it.

[A]

Yeah, you spent over $100 million on it.

[B]

You wouldn't go to see it if you were in Vegas.

[A]

No, I would.

[B]

What I don't get. And I asked a couple people about, like, who is paying 150, $200 for this?

[A]

It's Vegas, man. Money is treated differently in Vegas. People do crazy things. I mean, this is essentially the new version of a showroom show in Vegas. People were paying 200 bucks to see white tigers for many years. They pay 200 bucks to see a magician. They pay for this kind of random stuff in Vegas. And this is just the new version of Carrot Top or Siegfried and Roy or Terry Ftor or any of these acts that are successful in Vegas. And you look at them and you're like, what the hell? This is. This is the new version of that. The question is, how long can it go? Because like you pointed out, the Vegas audience overturns every four days. So there's constant stream of people. Although Vegas tourism is down right now, but there is a constant audience that is coming to Vegas and they're curious about the sphere. I just don't know that it's going to last as long as the projections think it's going to.

[B]

Yeah, it might not, but they do have another movie coming early next year, so. Or sometime maybe next spring. I forget the exact timing.

[A]

They need to just go nuts on it. Like, what. What movie would you most like to see in the sphere?

[B]

I mean, Star wars would be really cool. Yeah, a lot of the obvious one, right? Like Lord of the Rings would be cool. Harry Potter would be cool stuff with good visual effects. Jaws would be kind of cool.

[A]

Horror splatter horror.

[B]

Not for sure.

[C]

I also think, like, Dunkirk or something like that would be very cool.

[A]

Oh, good luck. Good luck. Getting Nolan to sign off on a butchered version of his movie. Playing for 70 minutes.

[B]

Watching that first 30, 45 minutes of saving Private Ryan. Not that that's not mass appeal enough, but Dunkirk isn't, and that's depressing. Also, you need something that everybody knows, right? It's gotta be mega famous, right?

[C]

Star wars is probably the answer Or Jurassic park is a great one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But Spielberg, again, like, these big filmmakers do not want their movies shown.

[B]

But if you're Steven Spielberg, you don't want to, like, mess around. If you could be involved.

[A]

Yeah, if he's involved, great. But if Jim Dolan is deciding where to cut my movie and to like, you know. Cause they didn't just cut it, why.

[C]

Does it have to be cut down? You keep saying that.

[A]

Because the perception in Vegas is that audiences will not sit through an entire movie. And there are stunts. It's essentially a theme park ride where they have wind tunnels and they have smells and they have apples falling from the sky and things like that. And it's hard to sustain that for two hours.

[B]

What if he just did a deal with Steven Spielberg and took a bunch of his movies? Like, if you. Indiana Jones would probably be fun there. Jaws would be fun, but he would.

[A]

Want to be involved.

[C]

No, no, I know, but why wouldn't Jim Dolan allow. He should be. Of course he should allow Steven Spielberg.

[B]

Yeah. The question. The question is really, does Steven Spielberg want.

[C]

Yeah, I feel like it's obvious that you would allow Steven Spielberg to have creative input.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, they do that with the theme park rides at the parks, like at Universal, when they're going to do an ET Ride or anything like that. They involve Spielberg and pay him a lot of money to do that. The prospect of Jim Dolan deciding how to display and cut your movie up, like, because it's not just editing. Like there. There are scenes that are changed in wizard of Oz where, like, they would go back and forth, cutting between characters, and now it's just one scene where they're talking to each other. That is the kind of thing that drives filmmakers crazy.

[C]

There's also an obvious director who would probably be most interested in this, and it's James Cameron.

[A]

You think so?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

But he would want to do something where he would, like, shoot an original movie from Inception for the.

[A]

Totally. He would do some undersea exploration thing and then put it at the sphere.

[C]

My question about this whole thing is, do you guys think this is the beginning of kind of The Future of 4D Augmented reality movies becoming the norm or the mainstream or a yearly trip that people want to take to go see stuff like this? Well, the spheres that are going to pop up all over the world, are there going to be other versions of the sphere that try to do stuff like this? Like, do you think this is the beginning of a new era?

[A]

I think we are going to go this direction as AI and other stunt type technologies allow for different presentations of movies and different kinds of content, then we will see more of this. But it's not totally new. I mean, it just doesn't get that much traction because it's more expensive and there isn't this audience that there is for the Sphere. The Sphere is a tourist attraction that people want to go to. They land in Vegas and they see this giant orb and they're like, that's cool, I want to check it out. So maybe, I mean, the Sphere reported an operating loss of $83 million last quarter. So the Sphere is not proven that it is a ongoing long term business. They need to do that first and maybe this will help them get there. But if the Sphere becomes a big global brand and they have multiple places you can go, maybe then it becomes like, oh, yeah, you take your movie on a tour and wizard of Oz can travel around the world and meet, reach all these people and have a constant audience. And then where the money is, the studios will follow.

[B]

I guess I'm kind of skeptical because it still feels stunty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Sphere itself, I think will remain popular for a while, but I don't know that this is like the future of moviegoing. I'm not ready to say that. Also, this fear makes so much more sense in Vegas than it does like if they open a smaller one in Miami or LA or whatever. I just don't know that it'd have the same appeal.

[A]

Moving on. Our guy, John Malone, he has a memoir. John Malone, the big investor, cable cowboy, rich guy, owns a lot of property. He's getting his message out there. And what he's saying is, in my interpretation, that he would very much like somebody to buy the studio and streamer portion of Warner Brothers Discovery, which is about to be splintered off from the Krapko, the cable network company that has been dragging down the stock. And one of the things he said in a New York Times interview last week was that he got together with David Ellison at Sun Valley and to, quote, talk about further consolidation in the media industry. Declining to be more specific. I take this as Ellison wants Warner Brothers and Malone is going to be more than happy to sell it to him.

[B]

Well, I would probably flip that, which is that Warner Brothers Discovery has been telegraphing everything it can to say, someone please come and buy us. And David Ellison is one of the most likely buyers.

[A]

True. Okay.

[B]

I mean, this, the split that they're doing is all about, you can come and buy one, you can come and buy the other.

[A]

Yeah. And The CFO is going to be the CEO of the Krapco Gunner. He says they already have a buyer for the 20% stake that the Krapco is going to have in the studio and streaming company post split. So we don't know who that buyer necessarily is, but he says they're out there.

[B]

Yeah, and look, bankers all see an opportunity here to do some deals. And if David Ellison's ambitions are as grand as they seem, a deal for WBD would solve a lot of his problems. But also, having just gotten the Paramount deal through, does he immediately want to turn around and do another one?

[A]

I don't know. I mean there was a lot of reporting on him waiting until after the split, but I've heard that it could go sooner that he could actually do it pre split and just kind of pair it off. They also are interested in TikTok. They're interested in a lot of things. And you know, it's funny, the Paramount logo is now appearing on movies and it says Paramount, a Skydance Corporation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which I think is setting everything up to be X Media Company. A Skydance Corporation. TikTok, a Skydance Corporation. Warner Brothers, A Skydance Corporation. That seems to be the plan.

[B]

Yeah, could be. So you think they would keep the Paramount and Warner Brothers brand separate, which makes no real strategic sense, but for Hollywood legacy would be nice.

[A]

Yeah. And I think the pitchforks might be out if he just eliminated an entire studio brand after a hundred years. But Malone seems to know that something is up here because he intimated in these interviews that he thinks the Ellison family will be very important to the next generation of media. AKA they're going to buy a whole bunch of shit.

[C]

Yeah, but would this get approved? Can Ellison buy Warner Brothers? From an antitrust standpoint, Warner's doesn't own.

[A]

A broadcast network, which was the entire problem with the previous transaction. The Trump administration had to approve the purchase of CBS's broadcast license by the stations.

[B]

Well, that was the issue with the fcc. This would be more of a DOJ maybe FTC question. It depends on how you look at it. Even five years ago, I think that deal probably gets shot down because those cable networks combined are like 40% of TV viewing, maybe more. I think now when they can point to it and be like even combined, if you look at the Nielsen gauge, it would make them account for the largest share of TV viewing, but they'd be like 1% above YouTube. So would they really block it? I think one of the bigger questions is if you're David, like Do you have to buy it now?

[A]

Yeah. And what do you buy? Do you just buy streaming in studios, or do you buy the entire thing and then figure out what to do with the cable networks? There's some reporting from the Journal this past weekend saying that he's trying to figure out a viable path forward for the Paramount.

[B]

That was a very weird story.

[A]

Very weird. Like, of course, he would love to find a path forward for these cable networks. I think the previous owner probably would have, too. But, you know, the ship has kind of sailed for MTV and VH1 at this point.

[B]

Yeah, totally sailed.

[A]

I think that's about trying to lure partners, trying to get people with stakes in other businesses, the music industry with mtv, maybe some other investors in Comedy Central to come in and say, like, oh, we care about this brand. Let's put some ideas and investment into it. And Paramount can still be an owner, but they'll have partners on them. I think that's what they want.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

The big thing with Malone, I think, is, is this his swan song? Like, is he kind of peace outing on his investments? He's been kind of intimating that he's taken a little bit of a backseat at his companies. He's off the board of Warner Discovery, put in a family member, and, you know, he's doing the career capping memoir tour right now. He's 84 years old. Like, I think this guy has been so quietly influential, including our guy David Zaslav, being his primary backer and defender and enabler. I think when he exits the stage, you see a lot of change.

[B]

I don't think he's peacing out.

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, he's just near the end.

[A]

There's never an end for these guys. Rupert is 94.

[B]

You don't write a memoir unless you recognize you're kind of at the end. Near the end. But he still cares, right? He just fired Greg Maffei. What was that earlier this year? Last year? You don't. You don't do that unless you're still paying attention. The CEO of Liberty, his company. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[A]

Although that was also perceived as maybe, like, his guy is out. They got to get someone in who can be their guy. Boy, that kind of thing. I don't know if I'm Zaslav. I'm sending him health supplements and, you know, longevity cryogenic chambers to keep him alive. Because Zaslav's incredible run has been due to the backing of John Malone. And even in the New York Times piece, he defended him. He said I trust him to get this right. You don't shoot the captain of the ship because the seas are stormy. I mean, does Zaslav have like naked photos of Malone that he's been exploiting for 30 years?

[B]

I hope not, but I just don't want that visual.

[A]

And he doesn't. And he's also changed the compensation so we don't go nuts every time we see Zaslav making $50 million, right?

[B]

No. Now we can all just go nuts over Elon Musk's compensation, right?

[A]

That is true. Zaslav not making a trillion dollars. That can be his tagline. All right, Lucas, thanks very much.

[B]

Thanks, Matt.

[A]

We are back with the call sheet. Craig, are you following the saga at CBS News over the editing of a Kristi Noem interview, the homeland Security woman? They now claim at CBS News that they are not going to edit pre taped interviews with big newsmakers like politicians. Are you following this at all?

[C]

Honestly, not really. But how much are these interviews typically chopped up? I imagine quite a bit.

[A]

They do most of the interviews live on these Sunday shows, but sometimes they pre tape them. And CBS made some edits to her interview. The problem with a lot of these Trump people is that they say false things on the air and they took some of that stuff out.

[C]

But are they making editorial decisions in the edits or are they just editing for time and cleaning up things?

[A]

Well, both. I mean, both. You have to edit for time on the constraints, but you can also put the entire thing on YouTube if you want. Sometimes they do that. Bottom line here is it's another example of CBS kowtowing to what the Trump administration wants here. And the bigger issue is they're now bringing in Barry Weiss. Paramount is near the one yard line according to my colleague Dylan Byers, to purchase the Free Press, which is Barry Weiss's website, it is kind of a reactionary anti woke pro Israel publication that he is going to give her a role at CBS News. They've hired an ombudsman as well to be the reader and viewer conduit to kind of police or flag content that people find objectionable. That was a condition of the sale of the company. And over and over again we see CBS here making moves to placate the Trump administration under the guise of being fair. And my prediction on the Bari Weiss thing is I think it's only going to last a year. I think Bari Weiss will come into the CBS culture which is so ingrained and they won't like her. She won't like it. She will say after a year that she needs to go back to her roots as a, you know, anti mainstream media force. And it will be very on brand for her to bail on CBS after a year. Even though there's probably some payouts in her deal that she only gets paid a certain amount if she stays, stays days. I don't think this is going to last.

[C]

I think a lot of these types of media personalities are honestly stronger independently than they are being forced to operate within the confines of a major media company.

[A]

Well, not forced. This is 100 to $200 million deal. So Barry Weiss getting paid?

[C]

No, of course. But trying to make it work usually I feel like doesn't work out when these people have such strong followings operating independently.

[A]

I know. And David Ellison is sticking to this fiction of being, you know, down the middle. Down the middle. We are down the middle, which is a great thing to say. Everyone aspires to that. But when push comes to shove, bringing in a pretty advocacy oriented journalist like Barry Weiss, who if you know her at all, she's kind of unmanageable and kind of all over the place. Very smart, very savvy and very opinionated. We'll see how that clashes with some of the CBS traditional media and long standing practices at cbs. So I think it'll last a year and then she will get all she wants out of it and decide that it's better for her brand to split.

[C]

When does Paramount buy the town and license the town?

[A]

I know I'm available for Ombudsman Services. $100 million easy. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Lucas Shaw, producer Craig Horbeck, artist Jesse Lopez and I want to thank you. We'll see you a couple more times this week.