← The Town with Matthew Belloni
The Town with Matthew Belloni
'Zootopia 2,' China, AI, and the Battle for Originals With the Head of Disney Animation
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- [00:00]
A
This episode of the Town is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting Frankenstein Nominated for five Golden Globe Awards including Best Motion Picture Drama, Best Director and Best Adapted Screenplay by Guillermo del Toro. The New York Times hails Frankenstein is stunning. The movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make. Starring Golden Globe nominees Oscar Isaac and Jacob Elordi, Esq. Raves Frankenstein will be considered a classic for lifetimes to come for your awards consideration. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios Film Deliver Me From Nowhere now nominated for a Golden Globes award for Best Actor. Critics hail it as a story of grit, vision and soul. Springsteen delivered Me From Nowhere for your consideration in all categories including Best Director Actor and Supporting Actor. It is Wednesday, January 14th. Heading into this past year, I think most people would have agreed the highest grossing movie would probably be Avatar 3. I certainly thought that given the track record. But here we are and I think we can now officially call it the biggest US movie of 2025 is Zootopia 2. It's coming up on $1.7 billion worldwide. It's actually about to pass inside out 2 become the biggest US animated movie ever, not adjusted for inflation. Pretty amazing. And it's due in part to more than $600 million grossed in China. One of the many interesting things about Zootopia is that it's written and co directed by the guy who also serves as the Chief Creative Officer at Walt Disney Animation. The original Disney feature animation unit goes all the way back to the beginning of the company. Remember it's operated separately from Pixar which is in the Bay Area, though it has the same structure where a filmmaker runs creative and is paired with a business side person. At Disney Animation. Jared Bush has been the top creative for about a year and a half in addition to writing and co directing Zootopia Zootopia 2, he's got an Oscar for co directing Encanto and he wrote moana and moana 2 and the upcoming live action Moana. That's a lot of Moana. Bush was a screenwriter and came to Disney through the TV side by creating an animated show for Disney Channel called Pen zero Part Time Hero and he later pitched Disney CEO Bob Iger on the idea for Zootopia himself. He's now got a pretty challenging job considering there's a real question whether audiences will support original animated films in theaters at the level they need to be successful. Plus the whole AI issue and many of the challenges facing Disney. So I wanted them on the show to discuss that. As Zootopia became so huge in China The AI questions Anime what the next few years will look like for Disney Animation. So today it's the year's biggest filmmaker, Jared Bush and how to do that and also run the studio that Walt built from the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. We are here with Jared Bush who in addition to being the chief creative officer of the Walt Disney Animation Studio, also the writer and co director of Zootopia 2. Welcome.
- [03:02]
B
Thank you so much for having me excited to be here.
- [03:04]
A
So Zootopia 2 about to pass Inside Out 2 to become the highest grossing US animated film of all time. Do you send Pete Docter like a little nasty note? Like a little Gary the Snake with his middle finger out or something?
- [03:21]
B
You know, I think we, we have a really good relationship.
- [03:24]
A
I'm sure you do.
- [03:25]
B
I'd say we, we are rooting for each other, but I'd say it's, it's always really fun and the truth is we actually help each other out. I think a lot of people know.
- [03:33]
A
That Pete runs Pixar, by the way, if you don't know.
- [03:35]
B
Yeah, but like we actually, you know, over the course of making our films, we actually bring our films to Pixar, Pixar brings their films to us to get some fresh opinions on it.
- [03:44]
A
Oh, that's it. At what point do you do that?
- [03:46]
B
Yeah, usually it's about 2/3 of the way through the five year period because you want it to be enough into the process that you know what your story is and who your characters are. But not so far that you can't make adjustments if you hear a great idea, which you always do.
- [03:59]
A
Oh, interesting. So they impact you. So that's not the official brain trust. You hear about the brain trust that these animation companies, that was a big Pixar thing that they brought to Disney. That's not that you have your own brain trust.
- [04:11]
B
Yes. But I'd say we go up and use their brain trust as they do with us. Yeah, absolutely. Because we have a really unusual system and to get feedback from people that know where you are in the process, how hard a note is to address. It's critical.
- [04:26]
A
Interesting. All right, so I have many questions about both what your sort of day job, I call it as managing Disney and your other job making these films. But I want to talk a little bit first about the success in China because I have been like this has been racking my brain since that, since frankly since the first one, like why these movies do so well in China. It's past 600 million in China. The first one did huge numbers in China. Like, what is it about this particular title that resonates there? I think lots of filmmakers would like to know.
- [05:03]
B
When the first one came out, we were asking ourselves those same questions. And in talking to our teams there and talking to people there, more than anything in the first film, the story of Judy, who is this underdog, moving from this rural town to the big city to make a difference, to make a name for herself, really resonated because for many, many people, they grew up in small rural towns. By the way, I grew up at a very small town outside of Washington D.C. obviously moved to LA. So I think that journey of going from the small place, leaving your family, wanting to make your family proud, going to this big metropolis. By the way, the city of Shanghai, everyone also thinks looks like the city of Zootopia.
- [05:41]
A
Okay, there. There you go.
- [05:42]
B
You know, it felt like, oh, this is made for us. This is. This is telling our story. And so many, many, by the way, they said from a small town to the big city on a train, which is how our first movie opens. And so I think immediately.
- [05:55]
A
And there are different tiers of cities in Zootopia, like different types. Like, you know, China has the tiered cities and there's different sort of almost like lands of Zootopia that you go to. I could see that.
- [06:06]
B
Yeah, but I think that was a big part of it. I'd also say that it was an unabashed comedy. And that's also something that tends to be global.
- [06:14]
A
You think so? I thought it was the opposite, that comedy doesn't travel because the Jason Bateman intonations and sarcasm may not play. I know there's a different Jason Bateman there, but like, I thought comedy was less universal.
- [06:30]
B
Visual comedy, slapstick comedy, you know, I think comedic situations. And I'd also say that when we put a movie out, we do 47 different languages when our movies go out. And we don't just do direct translations. Actually, if there's a pun here that's funny for an American audience, they do a very different pun there that actually works for those audiences. And so it's not a direct one to one translation.
- [06:54]
A
So you have a guy in China that suggests alt jokes for the Chinese audience.
- [06:59]
B
Exactly.
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A
Interesting. And then you animate around that.
- [07:03]
B
No, it's already been fully animated, actually. They have a difficult job because they have to fit those puns into the same lip formations. And so, I mean, it's like genius, brilliant work. I don't know how they do it.
- [07:12]
A
Well, that gets to my second question. The AI models can do that. Where are we with AI and animation? You know, you mentioned this movie had a five year path to the screen. It seems too long, right? Like in this day and age when you've got OpenAI saying they can make a full animated movie in a year. Like, where are you in that transition?
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B
Well, not a good one, I'd say. You know, I think that.
- [07:38]
A
Well, we haven't seen it yet. Critters. We're seeing critters later this year.
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B
Here's, here's what I'd say is that for me, what I care about the most and something that I think people don't really realize in CG animation, it all begins by hand. Everything you're seeing, every frame is by hand. Uh, that is critical for what we're doing because it is hundreds of people coming together to build something. What, what I would love tools to help me with are ways for me to create faster, for our teams to create faster.
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A
That's great, but where are those tools? Are you using them?
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B
No, we're not using them right now. But I'd say that it's something as simple as, like when I'm writing a script, the formatting, spell check is sort of computer learning in a way, right? These, these are tools that allow me to work faster. What I don't want is, is for AI to tell me what to create. There's no fun in that. I don't think anyone who's a storyteller wants a computer to do that for them. But I would like help to format things faster so I can get back into the creative process quicker.
- [08:34]
A
Okay, so about three years ago, Jeffrey Katzenberg predicted that in three years, so this year AI would take 90% of animation artists jobs. So we're coming up on those three years. Jeffrey obviously knows something about feature animation, especially at your company. Is he right? Is he not right at all? Is it somewhere in the middle? Where are we in that transition?
- [08:58]
B
I would say he's not right. There's so many ways to do many different things. The type of movies that we make at Disney Animation, I don't believe holds for that because I think that we're trying to tell stories that stand the test of time. I mean, ultimately we're trying to make stories that are not just great in one year, but someone will want to see in 10 years or 20 years or, you know, films. I grew up on, on Disney animated movies. Those are. Some of those movies are 50 years old. There's something Very special about that. And I think it is the human element that makes that possible. And then I'd say, you know, I can sort of talk about our collaborative process, which is extremely unique. It is all of these different individual creative brains coming up with ideas kind of in the moment. Very. You know, it's a lot of improvisation within that collaboration. I don't know how you would do that. So I'd say certainly some films could be made like that. Disney animated movies could not.
- [09:51]
A
But how? I mean, there's a push pull here because everyone thinks that $200 million is too much for an animated film. Especially given the challenges in the original animated filmmaking world. If the box office is not coming back for original animation and These movies cost $200 million, if you're not using AI extensively. What gives there?
- [10:17]
B
Look, I'd say I'm very lucky that the first three movies I worked on here were all originals. It was Zootopia, Moana and Encanto, all three of which originals.
- [10:27]
A
That's quite an arsenal there. You just threw three fastballs at me.
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B
But I'd say all of those really resonated. I'd say in terms of specific costs, I mean, luckily I'm on the. The creative side, not the dollars side.
- [10:40]
A
You're on the L, not the P side.
- [10:42]
B
Yeah, but it's something that we think about. I'd say something that. That's unique to Disney animation is everyone moves from movie to movie. We. It's not like a movie ends and there's a different crew that then comes in. We all move from movie to movie. That's one of the really unique things about working here. So we're also trying to attract and keep the best people in the world. And so that's part of what goes into these things. But I think to your point, these movies certainly now, certainly post Covid, demand to be exceptional, especially in original. You really have to convince audiences to go to give them a reason to get out of their houses. And then when they go to the theater, they want to get their money's worth. So I think it's also incumbent on storytellers to make it worth it.
- [11:26]
A
But how do you do that? I mean, do you think. So you think that there is a path for these originals to come back in theaters?
- [11:33]
B
There have to be.
- [11:34]
A
I believe if Encanto was released in a normal theatrical environment, I think it would have been a much bigger hit. I mean, we've seen how much the music and the animation resonates on Disney. But there's the knock that in the Bob Chapek era, that these films went direct to streaming. It taught the audience that original animation is for streaming. And then you go to the theater for the nostalgic moment to remember how great the first one was and see the new one.
- [12:02]
B
Yeah, I guess I just don't believe that's true.
- [12:05]
A
You don't? Okay.
- [12:06]
B
And so, you know, I think in this role now, I mean, of course there are stories that. And characters whose stories you want to continue. That's really important. But you have to have originals to build the next thing that people want to see more. That's critical. And then from a storytelling standpoint, you don't want to repeat yourself. It's critical to push into new territory and surprise people. Only originals can do that. I will say that the bar for originals is very high. And that's something that we spend a lot of time looking at.
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A
Well, that's fascinating. So what is the bar for original? Like, give me some elements that an original has to have in order to push it above that bar for a green light.
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B
Well, I think more than anything, it's the combination of a world that people want to spend time in and characters whose journeys you want to go on with them like that that is absolutely critical. And it seems very fundamentally. Well, of course, it's the world and the character.
- [12:58]
A
I mean, I would have thought that was the case for Wish. Wish to me seemed on paper, no brainer, fairy tale, like, big ballad like. But it didn't work.
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B
And I'd say that for me, looking at originals, certainly nowadays after Covid, I think people kind of. They want to walk in and be dazzled. And I think they want to see characters that resonate in ways that feel novel. You know, I think Nick and Judy are really good examples of characters who are extremely flawed, very specific. Moana and Maui. It's a great buddy film, the two of them. In the first Moana, Right. It is looking at these two characters pushing against one another. Encanto. It's Mirabella, but she has this giant family. It's 12 people in her family.
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A
It's also music. Music matters so much in these things.
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B
Music is a critical piece. I mean, obviously we do a lot.
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A
Of utopia, but in those fairy tales, it matters so much.
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B
It does well. And that's also a really difficult thing because, you know, you have to keep delivering new types of music to an audience. If you reach Rent, that doesn't feel good. If you try to go too far, that doesn't feel good. And so you do have to Sort of trust your gut moving through these things. But also in the five years it takes to make one of our films, we have hundreds of people in our building here giving direct, honest feedback about is it working? Is it not working? And that's a critical step.
- [14:18]
A
All right, so what is your day like? Give me the breakdown of someone who is in charge of the creative output of the studio, but also working on your own projects.
- [14:30]
B
Sure. I mean, I'd say in this role, it's always at least 50% of the job is focusing on the next movie up. So that's that regardless of what you're doing. And that could be in meetings where you're trying to figure out what the story is, you're looking at character designs, you're setting a bar for the world, you're pushing emotion or you're pushing comedy. And so you're in a number of different rooms. So I'd say 50%. Is that so right now, 50% of my job is focused on the next film, by the way. So when I'm. When I'm directing the next film up, it's the same. It's kind of the same thing. Meaning, like, I'm both directing the movie I'm working on. Zootopia 2 is a good example of this. But also my job is worrying about the next movie up. So it's kind of one of the same. Beyond that, it's really important to me is really looking at the health of this building of Disney animation. I think we do our best work when people are feeling creatively fulfilled. It's a building full of creative folks. And I think that when people feel valued, when they are able to take creative chances, that's really important. So I'd say the next big chunk of my job is making sure that this is an environment that is a creative environment for people.
- [15:36]
A
At what point do you go to the powers that be, to Alan Bergman, To Bob Iger, eventually, for the Green Light, you famously pitched the original Zootopia to Bob Iger, and I would like to know about that process. And also at what point now do you say, okay, we are ready. We think we have a viable Disney animation title. Let's go to the Green Light committee.
- [16:01]
B
First off, I'd say both of those guys are really good friends of mine. They're also the biggest supporters and cheerleaders of animation. Truly.
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A
Sure, sure, sure. Yes. But they also say no.
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B
Well, here's what I'd say. And you. And they have to say no for a reason. And I think they also are amazing listeners when I first got here. So my directing partner, Byron Howard, who, he's a veteran, one of the nicest, most welcoming people.
- [16:26]
A
Didn't he bring you to the studio and now you're his boss?
- [16:30]
B
Yeah, he reminds me every day that he hired me. So we're good on that front. But I'd say when I first got here, he had pitched this notion of it's going to be a world of talking animals and they're going to have technology and wear clothes. And when I was first hired, that movie was like a, almost like a James Bond adventure on a, on an island in the middle of the ocean somewhere. And I was like, okay, well, I like spy movies. This is great. And I, and I, I got hired. Luckily, I was really, really excited to come to Disney Animation. And day one, Byron said, oh yeah, we threw that whole idea in the trash. It's not gonna be spy movie. It's not gonna be an island actually. It's just gonna be the story set in this city of animals.
- [17:06]
A
Crime procedural.
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B
Yeah. And then, but we didn't even know that part. It was like, what are we doing? We got to start from scratch. And so I would say that we have an enormous amount of creative freedom. There's a lot of faith, I think, that Bob and Alan have in this place. It's not a traditional. And here's the whole movie done. And now can we get our green light? I think we are constantly working on notions and ideas and characters and worlds and we're saying we're really excited about this. What do you think? And sometimes they'll say, I love that. Go at speed. That's amazing. Sometimes they'll say, I'm not seeing it yet, but I trust you guys. Let's see it in a few months and see how it's going. And then sometimes they'll say, yeah, that's just really not something that's exciting. And it's way more of a conversation than it is like a scary moment of thumbs up or thumbs down and move forward. I think there's a lot of faith in the creative minds here to if you're passionate about something, there's a reason for it and we always have to earn those things. But there's, I think over the course of the process, you're constantly second guessing yourself and you're constantly needing to prove that this is worthy of five years of people's time.
- [18:19]
A
This episode is brought to you by Warner Bros. Pictures. Presenting Sinners Written and directed by Ryan Coogler and starring Michael B. Jordan Hailed as the best picture of the year. The New York Times calls Sinners a big screen exaltation, a passionate, effusive praise song about life and love, including the love of movies. And Time out says Ryan Coogler's bold vision makes Sinners a true event. An exuberant widescreen experience that stirs the soul. Sinners is awards eligible in all categories, including Best Picture, Best Director and Best Actor. This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures presenting the film Wicked for Good. Directed by John M. Chu, Wicked for Good is the epic, electrifying and emotional conclusion to the untold story of the Witches of Oz. Deadline calls it a masterpiece. And the movie that we need now for your awards consideration in all categories, including Best Director, John M. Chu, Best Actress, Cynthia Eribo, Best Supporting Actress, Ariana Grande and Best Picture of the Year, Wicked for Good now playing in theaters. A lot of talk about whether Disney should explore licensing outside IP to make animated movies. Universal's had a ton of success with the Nintendo properties. The video game space seems to be an area ripe for the imaginations of young people. Disney hasn't done that. Why not? Where are you guys on that?
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B
Well, I think historically our stories come from within.
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A
Yeah, you like to own. The company wants to own everything, you know, start to finish. And this would be a change.
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B
But that's. Wait a second. That's. That's the cynical view that it's the company.
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A
Okay, I'm a cynical person, but I agree that there is a creative engine there that should be able to come up with the next franchises. But you know what? When you attach illumination to Super Mario Brothers, it's $1.5 billion.
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B
That's all right. That's true. I'd say that. That is true. I'd say Zootopia is doing pretty well. It is.
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A
And you don't owe half the money to a Japanese corporation.
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B
Ultimately, the reason why creative folks come here and the reason why, you know, I'm lucky enough to work with some of the greatest storytellers in the world is because people want to create that. That is the number one thing that pulls people is we want to build something. And I will tell you that as a screenwriter who wanted to join Disney Animation before I got this job, I was asking the same questions you are, which is. But I have this great idea. Why is Disney Animation not buying this great idea that I have? And it was told me, well, everything is sort of built in house. I will say that it's. It really isn't a financial something that we Think about from a financial perspective, it is really. We have brilliant people that want to build something, and that's why they're here.
- [21:06]
A
So no unlicensed IP in this role.
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B
I will never say there's a never meaning. Like. Like, for me, like, I actually think it's critical. I think we have to be aware of the world in which we live. But I would say based on the stories and the ideas that I've heard about what the next 15 years of our movies could look like, that's not something that I'm focused on right now.
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A
What about anime? I have said on this show that Disney should be either buying an anime studio or exploring anime more seriously. You guys do a couple little partnerships, but the box office numbers on anime, like, they're not something to slouch at.
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B
Oh, well, for sure. I mean, so many of our artists here are really inspired by anime. Obviously, Miyazaki's work is something that I study myself. I think when people hear anime, it means a lot of different things. You know, it's a medium just the same way that CG animation is a medium. And so I think there's a lot of different ways to tell stories. In my experience, you know, I'd say that a lot of the anime movies that, at least for me, excite me are sweeping. They're epics. They're, you know, you're looking at this amazing, beautiful world building.
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A
But is there a place for anime at Disney?
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B
It's a very specific pipeline to do that. A lot of the times Anime is either 2D artists or a very specific way of doing things. That's not exactly the way that we do things. That said, inspired by anime is something different. And that's something that, as we're looking to the next several years of how we tell stories and the visual style of our stories, those things can change quite a lot. And that's something I'm very excited about. Over the next, even the next five years, there's going to be a really exciting evolution in the way that our movies look. I think people are excited about that.
- [22:48]
A
So there is a K pop Demon Hunters inside Disney at some point.
- [22:52]
B
Oh, man. I think throughout history, you see when something really succeeds and everyone's like, I want to do that thing that made that person. It actually is not what it is. It is. They did something special and people went. Spider Verse is another great example, right?
- [23:05]
A
Yeah.
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B
You don't want it. Like, Spider Verse succeeded because it was this really amazing art style that was really tied to comics well.
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A
And people also Said Disney would never make that movie that way. I remember when that came out. This is feeling fresh and resonating because it's so not what Disney would have done with Spider Man.
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B
I would say, I respectfully disagree. I'd say, well, people worry that's the case. But I'd say from personal experience, it's. It's not exactly the case. Something I found is specifically because we have this hundred year old legacy, which is, I mean, no other studio has that. The one thing that we do have to do is make sure that it feels like it belongs in that legacy. And there's a lot of different ways that you can push the boundaries. And that's something that Walt Disney himself always wanted to push boundaries, always wanted to surprise and exceed expectations. So there's no hard and fast rules here at all. I think a lot of people believe there are for many different reasons. But it's, it really comes down to filmmaker passion. And for me, most importantly, if you're going to change something specifically a style, there has to be a reason to do it. Just changing it to be different doesn't get you anywhere. But man, that style mixed with what that story is makes so much sense and the filmmaker really believes in it. We're going to do that. Every time.
- [24:18]
A
You could do an animated Star wars feature, you wrote the original andor pilot.
- [24:24]
B
That is true.
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A
How did that happen? And how did you let Tony Gilroy get in the door?
- [24:29]
B
The amazing Tony. Let me think. A genius like Tony, now I know.
- [24:32]
A
But you did write the original and or pilot.
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B
I did. I did, yeah. I'd say I am a unabashed Star wars fan. I have been my entire life. It's such a huge part of my, my childhood. I remember when Return of the Jedi came out, my dad, the doctor, he wrote me a sick note to get out so I could go see it on opening day. I love everyone at Lucasfilm. I've had a really good relationship with them for years. Kathy Kennedy, of course, Carrie Beck is a dear friend.
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A
Dave Filoni, you had the full Kathy Kennedy experience of being hired and then fired off a project.
- [25:01]
B
Well, actually, I was never fired.
- [25:04]
A
You weren't? Okay.
- [25:05]
B
No, that was when Encounter was coming up and I had to make a choice.
- [25:08]
A
Yeah. And or turned out okay.
- [25:10]
B
Yeah. I literally just had a conversation with Kathy last week where, you know, I sat down with my kids. They wanted to binge both seasons one and season two, and it's phenomenal. It's not what I would have done with that. And I think that's a really important piece of what we do in this industry, which is you do want a storyteller's point of view and perspective. And obviously, you know, Tony's work on so many films, but especially Rogue One, which I thought was tremendous. That's why I was excited about andor in the first place, because of that work. So, you know, I think so often it. I think that the narrative is sort of these battles between folks. We're all creative people that are just trying to make something that matters.
- [25:46]
C
Jared, what is the perfect blend to you of adult humor when making an animated movie? It feels like some of the best and most successful animated movies have a good amount of jokes for the parents as well. Zootopia 2, there's references to the Godfather. There's an amazing set piece at the end that's a direct reference to the Shining. How do you balance that?
- [26:04]
A
You apparently cut a four minute sequence about Silence of the Lambs to me.
- [26:09]
B
We always. At Disney Mansion, we always think we have to make the movies for ourselves first. Meaning we have to personally be entertained going through. I have three boys. I've lived through many movies. I'm like, I don't want to sit in this movie that I'm watching right now. So when we're building something, we want something that's going to entertain everybody. I think a lot of times people. People kind of think like that animation can be for kids. It's actually not. I always say that animation is for everyone and also kids, which makes it difficult. Our audience is everybody from young to old. I think that there has to be a really healthy dollop of things for adults. And one of the really fun challenges in writing stories like this, especially Zootopia, which I think audiences want to feel is aged up, is making sure that there's enough references in there that adults are having a good time while not alienating younger audiences that. That may not get it. The best is when you can. When there's a joke that. That works on. On different levels at the same time. Even better, as far as that's concerned.
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A
Is that why you cut the Silence of the Lambs thing? Or was it just.
- [27:12]
B
No, you know, it's so funny. I think the Silence of the Lambs actually used to be. There's two parts. It used to be actually at the midpoint. There was a moment where they went to get some information at the midpoint of the movie. And by the way, I love Silence of the Lambs. And we have a lamb who's a villain in the first movie. So we're like, we have to. We have to do this. It actually detracted from the Nick and Judy story. So it wasn't a matter of, like, is this too adult or not? It was, we have to focus on our characters and our relationship story first. And if it gets in the way of that, that doesn't work. And the wonderful thing was by removing that location in that moment of the film, it allowed us to have this moment where they climbed this cliff with this carrot pin that was so emotionally important to them, was destroyed and they had this breakup at the top of this lodge that wouldn't have existed had that homage stayed in the form. It was at that length. So we like to make our stories character first. I will say that in our focus groups, the kids are always ahead of the adults all the time. Something we always worry about is, you know, we have a story that's. There's noir elements and of course, references to movies and films that we loved. When we get feedback sessions, the kids always knew more than the adults and were with it. So I think that we also try to never talk down to younger audiences because they're very sophisticated. Especially today when they're listening to your podcast and they're watching film theories all the time. Like, we had like five year olds talking about our third act and what the denouement was going to be. We're like, okay, great.
- [28:39]
A
Yeah, the town is huge with 5 year olds.
- [28:41]
B
We are, by the way, it probably.
- [28:43]
A
Is in the car. Yeah. That's why I get negative feedback when we say swear words. Because people are like, man, I'm in the car with my kids.
- [28:51]
B
Right. But they're eating it up and I think that's important.
- [28:54]
A
So Frozen three and four are happening now. Your predecessor, Jennifer Lee, when she stepped down, the messaging from Disney was that she stepped down to produce these movies. Is that real? Is she like, what. What is her involvement in frozen 3 and 4?
- [29:10]
B
Oh, deep in it right now. Actually, I think I'm seeing, like, I think I'm seeing.
- [29:14]
A
That sounded like I'm, you know, spending more time with my family or I'm getting a producing deal on the line.
- [29:19]
B
Oh, gosh, no. I mean, no. I mean, these movies are really, really difficult. The expectations on the continuation of Frozen literally could not be higher. Frozen 3 is out in 2027. So that's. For us, that's a blink in animation, like being a year and a half out. I mean, we are going to be very close to production and that's a tall order. You know, I Think something that a lot of people don't think about. There are very few sequels to musicals. I think there's four in the history of cinema for, like, theatrical releases. They're very hard because typically in a musical, your story is about a character who learns and they have something so emotional they have to sing about it and then that gets buttoned up at the end of that story. To continue that story and make it feel just as emotional is really, really hard.
- [30:07]
A
Well, and usually they're successful because people respond to the music and replicating the music is really tough.
- [30:14]
B
It's really hard. But part of that is, though, the character journey that makes that music possible. They're hand in hand. So Jen right now is working with an amazing director, Trent Corey, who did a lot of work on Frozen Shorts coming up. He's an animator, not a storyboard artist. These are different storyboard artists. They're. They're some of the first artists in on one of our films. They're pen to paper sketches. Animators are obviously a different skill set. And the two of them together, they are a powerhouse. Seeing Bobby and Kristen work with them is fantastic. Knowing where they're going to take that story, I think audiences, again, you have to keep surprising people. But with Anna and Elsa, there are, you know, there are expectations about what that story will be, what it will say about their relationship. Those things are. Are very, very difficult, tricky things.
- [31:03]
A
They need to go to space. Basically.
- [31:05]
B
We're going to hear it. Right? That's Frozen four in space.
- [31:08]
A
Fast and Furious.
- [31:09]
B
Yeah, it worked for Friday 13th. We should do it as well.
- [31:12]
A
Yeah.
- [31:13]
C
Is there an ideal turnaround time between. Between sequels like Frozen one to Frozen two is six years. Frozen two to Frozen three is going to be seven years. In your perfect world, if you could do it in two, would you? Or do you like.
- [31:24]
A
I don't think so.
- [31:24]
C
Having the five, six, seven years build up in anticipation.
- [31:28]
B
I will say that four or five. Four years. Five years, that's a. That's a good zone. You know, I'd say one. Musicals, 100%, I think, need to have a gap because I think you want to learn to love new music and there's music that's already out there. That could be tricky. But there's something, at least for us, that's really helpful in getting a little bit of. You need to have sort of an objective view and it's really hard with your right in it. You know, I really appreciate the fact that there was this gap for Zootopia 2. I hear a lot like why did it take nine years? We went from Zootopia, then we did Encanto. That's five years to make that. And then five years to make Zootopia 2. So it was one movie between. But I don't know that we would have made the movie the same way had it been four or five years later in that first one. So for me, really appreciated that distance.
- [32:15]
A
Do you have an idea for a third one?
- [32:17]
B
Oh, I think anytime you're stepping any of these worlds, you have to.
- [32:20]
A
Yeah, I'm sure Iger wants you to have an idea for the fifth one.
- [32:24]
B
He's right outside. He's knocking on the door. I'd say, you know, I started my career in television. And so something that I learned from that was certainly, if you're trying to build a series, you always had to be thinking of, well, hopefully you get through this season. But if there's another one, what would happen if there was another one after that? You know, we're trying to build real characters and really think about their journeys. And so kind of, I guess I'd say, like Michael Mann style, for me. I really try to think through all these character backstories, make them real. And then that says, okay, well, in the future, what might happen. I think that's something. As a storyteller, that's something I kind of feel like I always do. Regardless of the realities of whether another story would happen or not.
- [33:03]
C
Does that mean we can expect a heat reference in Zootopia 3?
- [33:06]
A
Yeah, there better be.
- [33:07]
C
Is there going to be a Neil McCauley character?
- [33:09]
A
Some go fast boats from Miami Vice.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah, you know, we got to get a. I'd say the Tom Cruise, awesome gray hairy hat in there. I think we got to find a way to bring that back. Oh, yeah, exactly. Like a fox or a wolf. I think we need that.
- [33:24]
A
Very nice. Well, I'm excited for the Success of Zootopia 2. I'm very happy for Jason Bateman's box office bonuses. He needs more money. Thank you for coming on the show.
- [33:35]
B
It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.
- [33:39]
A
We are back with the call sheet. Craig, I know your anticipation has been building steadily since last summer's 28 Years later follow up. We now have 28 Years later, the Bone Temple. How excited are you for this?
- [33:53]
C
I didn't have to wait very long. It's really nice. It's less than 12 months.
- [33:57]
A
They filmed them back to back. They filmed them, like concurrently?
- [34:00]
C
Yes. No, I haven't seen any of these movies. Not because I don't think they're good. I've actually heard from all my friends that these movies are fantastic. The post apocalyptic zombie horror film is not my favorite genre.
- [34:11]
A
Sony Pictures, man, this is the year of Sony Pictures. They're back. This is the first release of their year. They're going to have a spider man. They're going to have a Jumanji like Sony is back. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not going to make any. I'm not going to give Lucas any hints about my box office picks for our draft. So I'm going to stay quiet on what movies may or may not perform later this year.
- [34:32]
C
I know you need to bounce back because it's looking like Lucas finally beat you this year.
- [34:36]
A
Oh, don't, don't say that. Also will be addressed on a future show. This Movie's tracking to 20 million for the three day. This is a holiday weekend with MLK and that would be down significantly from the 30 million that the previous installment opened to. I don't know. I think I'm going to take the over on this for the 3 day. 20 million seems low to me.
- [35:02]
C
What does it say to you that this movie is being released in January?
- [35:05]
A
Well, it is a holiday weekend and you know, studios sometimes go for it on this weekend. This is a lesser franchise. The last one got to 151 million worldwide, 70 domestic. Not a big surprise. They pretty much have this weekend all to themselves even though Avatar is still out there in a lot of the holiday movies. So not a big surprise. It's a B level, you know, B minus franchise. But I do think it'll get above 20 million. Nia Dacosta is directing this one.
- [35:35]
C
Alex Garland wrote it, who wrote the first three. There's returning guys. Ray finds is in this one.
- [35:40]
A
I don't know. I just, I don't get that excited about it. But it'll probably do okay. We'll see.
- [35:44]
C
So you're taking the soft over?
- [35:45]
A
I'm taking the soft over.
- [35:46]
C
We should also do accountability corner here. You were correct taking the under on Greenland 2 migration under 10 million. I think it made around 8. But you were incorrect with primate. Well, you took the under on 10 million and ended up making around 13.
- [36:00]
A
Never bet against the killer chimp.
- [36:02]
C
No whore monkeys are a guarantee.
- [36:06]
A
Something's wrong about. There's something wrong with Ben. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Jared Bush, producer Craig Horback, artist Jesse Lopez. I want to thank you. We will see you one more time this week. This time of year, everyone talks about going dry. But at Athletic Brewing Co. We're skipping that because we prefer going Athletic, which isn't dry at all. From crisp goldens to hoppy IPAs and limited releases in between, you'll find something that fits your style. Every single non alcoholic brew is packed with flavor and the same craft experience you love. So yeah, you could call it dry, but there's really nothing dry about it. Find your new favorite neo beer@athleticalbrewing.com Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for All Times the new year brings new health goals and wealth goals. Protecting your identity is an important step. Your info is in endless places that could expose you to identity theft leading to lost funds. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second.
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