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- [00:02]
Marjorie Hernandez
Seriously popular.
- [00:04]
Unknown
The following episode explores a number of allegations regarding the artist Diddy. He denies all charges and has pled not guilty to sex trafficking, racketeering, and transportation to engage in prostitution.
- [00:14]
Marjorie Hernandez
Welcome to the Trial of Diddy podcast. I'm Marjorie Hernandez.
- [00:18]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
And I'm Hermania Rodriguez Poleo.
- [00:20]
Marjorie Hernandez
We'll be back in a second.
- [00:34]
Renato Stabil
The biggest secret in the entertainment industry that really wasn't a secret at all.
- [00:39]
Marjorie Hernandez
At the height of his career, Sean Diddy Combs had it all.
- [00:43]
Unknown
Everything Diddy touched turned to gold.
- [00:46]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Now he faces multiple federal charges in New York, including sex trafficking and allegedly running a criminal enterprise. Another woman has now come forward alleging Combs of sexual assault.
- [00:57]
Unknown
Music mogul and rapper Sean Diddy Combs.
- [00:59]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
She claims she was drugged and sexually assaulted by Combs. Oh, this guy is dangerous.
- [01:05]
Unknown
From freak offs to the mysterious list, the shocking case that has gripped the world is finally here. And we'll be bringing you every detail as it happens.
- [01:15]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Welcome to the trial of Diddy Foreign. So jury selection in Diddy's sex trafficking trial became this week, but we've seen a lot of delayed. It was supposed to end today on Friday, but the judge sided with Diddy's defense team, saying that he preferred to finalize that process on Monday. There was some concerns that more jurors were going to back out. Apparently in the break that the court took on Thursday, already they lost some some jurors. So the judge appeared to be leaning towards finalizing this process on Monday as a way to not lose more jurors, which I thought was interesting. The state really opposed that measure. So it was a win for Diddy in the end.
- [02:04]
Marjorie Hernandez
From time to time, we'll be referencing Dan in the show. That's Dan Bates, our very experienced court reporter. He's one of just a handful of journalists reporting from the inside of the courthouse, and he will be there for us and DailyMail.com, mail online every day.
- [02:22]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
That's right. He's sending us updates in real time as the trial progresses. So far, we know that 43 jurors need to be whittled down to 12 jurors and six alternates by Monday. As I said, this process was supposed to end today, but instead it's going to happen on Monday right before opening statements. The judge claims that this is not going to delay opening statements on Monday.
- [02:46]
Marjorie Hernandez
Today we have our guest, Renato Stabil to unpack this whole complicated jury selection process. Now, thank you, Renato, for joining us. And Renato is a managing director of Dubin Research and Consulting, based here in New York. And he is also a friend of the podcast. Welcome, Renato.
- [03:06]
Renato Stabil
Thanks a lot for having me. Good to be talking to you.
- [03:10]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
So let's get right down to it. I think this jury pool was quite interesting. I don't know if it's just a New York City thing, but it was quite fascinating that we had one juror who was an executive at Simon and Schuster and was actually working on a book with. I'll be sure, of course, that juror was let go. We also had two workers from hbo. Even though, as we know, there was a huge bombshell documentary about Diddy on hbo. How normal was this jury pool? It really. I was expecting this process to not be as interesting as it was.
- [03:49]
Renato Stabil
Yeah, you know, look, it's New York City, so you get a wide range of people. I'm not that surprised. These things happen, especially in these really large, high profile, jury selections where you're bringing in hundreds of people. You know, you're whittling it down to people really, first and foremost, that can actually sit for 10 weeks. So that's probably the most difficult hurdle to get over. And then once you get past that, people who say that they can be fair and impartial, but, you know, I. I think the judge needs to get it down to 45 jurors before they start exercising strikes. There's some math behind that that, you know, I won't bore you with, but it's based on the number of jurors plus the number of alternates, plus the number of strikes that each party is entitled to. And so that's how you get to the 45. You actually only need 40, but the judge is being conservative and he's going to have a few more.
- [04:45]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
The judge seemed a little desperate to get jurors because in some cases, if the potential jurors have heard about the case, they are immediately dismissed. But in this case, most jurors knew who Diddy was and even said they have seen reports and the video of him assaulting Cassie. So a lot of the. The jurors who said they are aware of the case, they have seen the. You are still in the pool.
- [05:09]
Renato Stabil
Yeah. In a case that's this high profile. I mean, look, I think it would be strange if you found jurors that hadn't heard of the case or hadn't heard of Diddy. I'd be a lot more concerned about those people because I have to think, where do you live? You know, you're not part of the world if you don't know about this case. And if you don't know about Diddy, so they couldn't apply a standard where if you know about the case or if you know about Diddy, you can't be a juror. The question is, can you be fair and impartial? Can you listen to the evidence? Can you give Diddy, you know, the presumption of innocence? Can you look at him as he sits there now? And a lot of people can't. But remember, he is entitled to that. He is presumed innocent. And until the prosecution proves their case beyond a reasonable doubt, he is an innocent man. And you have to find jurors that are going to say, yeah, I look at him that way and I'm going to respect his constitutional rights.
- [06:05]
Marjorie Hernandez
We talk about Diddy, obviously such a major figure in the hip hop world and in entertainment, period. But jurors also saw a list of potential witnesses who could be testifying. And that list is also celebrity packed. We heard Michael B. Jordan might be called, Mike Myers, Kid Cudi, all sorts of people in the entertainment industry. So it was also interesting see how jurors, potential jurors reacted to that list and what the judge asked them. Can you go over a little bit about that, Renato?
- [06:40]
Renato Stabil
Yeah. So look, obviously besides Diddy, you have this star studded list of potential witnesses. We've talked about this before. One of the concerns that I think both sides have are these stealth jurors, right? People that will just say anything to get onto the jury and won't be honest with you. And especially when they see that some of these celebrities might be showing up. Look, this is exciting. This might be the most exciting thing that will happen in a lot of jurors lives all year, maybe in 10 years. So, you know, the fact that you have all those celebrities, it adds to whether or not you think people are trying to game the system just to get onto the jury.
- [07:23]
Marjorie Hernandez
I have to say Hermionia has been doing a great job and also blogging as we're taking Dan Bates notes, who again has been in court. Hermione has been updating our live feed and there have been a lot of interesting things that came out during this jury selection process. Anything in particular that really interested you?
- [07:44]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Hermione? Definitely. And I wanted to ask Renato about it because I was under the impression that defendants had to really keep to themselves, not smile to the jury, not be laughing at their jokes, not making eye contact. But Diddy has been described by the people in the courtroom as super engaged, nodding along to the jurors that he Likes laughing at their jokes. There was a moment where Diddy shared a joke with his lawyers after a female juror said that she once fainted in school when a teacher talked about oral sex. She was dismissed because she said she doesn't do well with the topic. Diddy was having a great time with it. He's turned around, kept laughing with one of his supporters, was wearing a free puff sweatshirt. We had an interesting moment where a report from Fox 5 said that Diddy turned around and she's pregnant and that he mouthed to her, how are you? So he's putting on the charm. Tell us about that. At what point is that not allowed anymore?
- [08:48]
Renato Stabil
He's obviously a very charismatic person. He has been a celebrity for a very long time. He knows how to ingratiate himself with people. I don't know that it's necessarily a put on. I think that's just how he is, and he's just maybe being himself. Look, he's not obviously supposed to be talking to jurors or engaging with them, but he definitely wants to build rapport. He wants them to see him as another human being who is in a tough situation. And I think it's fine to make eye contact or to smile to jurors. You can't do it too much. But remember, you also don't want to be laughing too much. And this is something that I tell clients. When you are in that courtroom and the jury walks in, it's like the curtain goes up on stage, all eyes are on you. So you have to take it very seriously. And it's okay if something funny happens in court. You know, he's human. We're all human. But I wouldn't want to see him, you know, when something not funny is going on in court, for him to be joking around with his lawyers and that I think would really do him a disservice if the jurors detect that he's not taking this seriously in any way. But if you have those light moments, I think that's fine. And I think, look, he should rely on the charisma that has served him well for many, many years.
- [10:09]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
I think that's part of his plan, definitely.
- [10:12]
Marjorie Hernandez
Again, he's a showman and performed in wide audiences before, and I mean, this is going to be the biggest audience he will ever have. So he's fighting for his life in there.
- [10:23]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
The show of his life for sure. But what do you think we're going to end up in this jury with? We've had against such a diverse potential jury pool that I've seen. We even had someone. I thought it was interesting. The prosecution seemed to be concerned with whether this potential juror spoke English, and Diddy's team was really fighting to keep them. I thought that was quite interesting. What do you think will end up here and do you think. Because, as you mentioned, I thought a lot of people would want to do anything to get on this jury, but I also saw a lot of people clearly wanting to get out. There was a lawyer who should have known he's not allowed to be looking at the news after court. And he said, yeah. I looked on the train, and the judge was like, well, we told you not to do that. And then he's like, well, I looked. I looked at who you dismissed. So that seemed a bit on purpose. But what do you think is going to happen with this pool of jurors?
- [11:19]
Renato Stabil
I think the biggest factor is really the 10 weeks that. That's the thing that people are saying, I would like to be on this jury. I think it would be interesting to be on this jury, but for two weeks, not for 10 weeks. So I think that's why you're seeing a lot of people trying to get out of it. You know, one thing that was interesting, I saw you had some footage of Mark Agnifolo walking into court this morning, and he had that huge white binder.
- [11:44]
Marjorie Hernandez
Right.
- [11:44]
Renato Stabil
I assume, based on my experience, that in that huge white binder is a ton of information on all of these jurors that was probably his jury binder. And so what the defense has been doing, and probably the prosecution, too, has been researching these jurors, finding out everything they can, and over the weekend, they're even going to continue to do that. And it also gives them an opportunity to sit down with Diddy, because, listen, it's ultimately his life, and he has to be comfortable with the jury that's going to sit in judgment of him, and he should have a say in who they're going to strike on Monday.
- [12:22]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Who is the ideal juror for Diddy?
- [12:25]
Renato Stabil
I think the ideal juror for Diddy is somebody who is going to hold the prosecution witnesses to a very high and exacting standard. Who is going to be looking for discrepancies in their stories. Who is going to be saying, if you didn't want to go along with these things, why did you attend these events? Why did you continue to attend these events? Why didn't you walk out the door? I know some of the testimony is going to be that think people were drugged or things were put in their drinks. But I think also some of it will be voluntary drug use, voluntary alcohol use. And I'm looking for jurors who are going to look at these alleged victims, and they're going to say, look, I'm not buying that you were coerced into this. You were. You know, as far as I know, the people. I know there are civil suits, but the people testifying in this trial are adults, and they were adults when these things happened. So I want really exacting thinkers, people that see the world as black and white and who are going to hold them to that standard.
- [13:34]
Marjorie Hernandez
Renato, One of the bombshells that came out, I guess, today in the discussion between both sides is the fact that the prosecution is unsure whether or not victim three will actually be testifying. And secondly, we now know also Cassie Ventura, who is victim one, will be taking up most of next week when she testifies. We're just wondering if you can comment a little bit about victim three, the fact that she's mia. And secondly, Cassie right now is very pregnant. And I was wondering if you can talk a little bit about just the optics of having Cassie Ventura, especially because.
- [14:15]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
The defense revealed today that their strategy is going to be to paint Cassie as a violent person who is very strong and cannot be coerced. And she. It's. Exactly how is that going to look to a juror when a heavily pregnant woman is being kind of questioned this way?
- [14:33]
Renato Stabil
Yeah, I saw that. And it's always difficult for a defense attorney to have to cross examine a victim of sexual assault. You know, you don't want to bully that person. You don't want to bully any witness. So I think they have to go very gently with her. And I think the pregnancy, the timing of it is, I guess, for the defense, from their perspective, unfortunate. And the last thing the defense wants to do, I think, is really make her cry on the witness stand or look like they're really bullying her. But to your point, if they're going to say that she's this tough person and that she was physically abusive or did things to Diddy, and I think that's going to provide some of the context from the defense perspective of what was going on in that video in the hotel now, you know, does it excuse it? Of course not. Does it explain it? Well, maybe. And so they're going to have to get into all of that. But it does change the calculus and it does change the tone you take with her being as visibly pregnant as she is in terms of victim number three. It is very unusual For a key government witness to go MIA on the eve of trial, I can't even begin to speculate on what is going on there. What is even stranger is the reports we're getting that the prosecution team is having difficulty getting in touch with Victim three's lawyer. That is also extremely unusual. I cannot imagine what is going on. But, look, I don't think it sinks the government's case. They have several other victims that they're going to put on, including one who is, you know, not one of the actual allegations in the indictment. So they have plenty of evidence. And I don't know that not having victim three there makes such a difference. And look, this happens all the time in trials. The prosecution often reevaluates their case in the middle of trial, and witnesses that they thought they were going to call, they just don't call them. They're under no obligation to call, you know, any particular witness. They just have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
- [16:46]
Marjorie Hernandez
Well, thank you so much for breaking all that down. I know there is just a lot to digest in the week of just jury selection. So you can imagine what the next. What eight to 10 weeks will be like in the actual beginning of this trial.
- [17:00]
Renato Stabil
Yeah, next week's gonna be very interesting. They're gonna do the strikes early Monday morning, and then go right into the openings, and we'll see our first witness.
- [17:08]
Marjorie Hernandez
Well, thank you again, Renato, for taking the time out to speak to us and lending us your expertise. We would love to have you back on again as this trail progresses.
- [17:17]
Renato Stabil
That'd be great. Thanks a lot for having me.
- [17:19]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
We'll be right back after this quick break. So, Marjorie, let's break down the big players in this trial, because I have a feeling a lot of these names are going to become very familiar to people over the upcoming several weeks.
- [17:53]
Marjorie Hernandez
I mean, we've heard a lot of them before. Mark Agnefo. I mean, he was the defense attorney for the Nexum sex cult leader Keith Rainier.
- [18:03]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
He really takes on these tough cases.
- [18:05]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yeah.
- [18:06]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
But I wanted to talk about Mark Derragos because there has been a lot of conversation surrounding him in court. He's not officially part of Diddy's defense. His daughter is Tenney. However, he has been in court all week and appears to be advising the team on jurors. The judge actually slammed him in a private meeting because the reason this lawyer cannot be on this defense team is that he is doing a podcast cast with TMZ on the trial. Tell us about this. And. And it's Pretty outrageous that someone that's been so vocal in the media is actively advising this defense team.
- [18:50]
Renato Stabil
Right.
- [18:51]
Marjorie Hernandez
Like you said, he's not officially on the defense team. However, Mark, who's had so many celebrity cases throughout the years, he has been, I guess, off and on throughout the years, a legal counsel for Diddy and other.
- [19:05]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Oh, he's a long time.
- [19:07]
Marjorie Hernandez
They have a long term relationship for years now. And so it's interesting and not surprising that Tenney jumped on as one of the main defense attorneys. But one of the things I found interesting was the judge actually said, look, be careful what you're saying or how you're interacting with the legal team. And I will be listening to your podcast.
- [19:30]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
But also, we need to mention, apparently on the podcast, this lawyer referred to the prosecution, prosecution team as a pack of white women or something to that effect. And the judge also told him that statement was unacceptable. He mentioned it on the podcast and the judge was really not having that. But Garago's shot back and he continues bringing race into it. He said, well, the defendant as a black man feels targeted and this is relevant.
- [20:01]
Marjorie Hernandez
I'm sure as the weeks go by, Mark will still be, you know, on that podcast discussing the case, because that's what he does. But it'll be interesting to see how close and how more involved he will be in the next few weeks and.
- [20:17]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Whether he gets kicked out of court altogether.
- [20:20]
Marjorie Hernandez
Perhaps there could be sanctions or anything like that if he's not careful. But we shall see.
- [20:25]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
On that topic, though, Diddy added a new lawyer just this week. Nicole Westmoreland. She was previously with Brian Steele in the Young Thug trial. What else do we know about her?
- [20:38]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yeah, she's a seasoned defense attorney. Again, she was in a Young Thug trial. We have heard that Diddy really wanted a black attorney on the team.
- [20:48]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
So it wasn't a black woman, right?
- [20:51]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yes. Now, it wasn't surprising to see her, her name pop up. So, I mean, he has a good set of star attorneys.
- [20:59]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
She also says she's a victim of rape. So this is definitely would be someone that would look good on Diddy's team. But let's talk about the prosecution a little bit because James Comey's daughter, Maureen.
- [21:12]
Marjorie Hernandez
Comey, is the lead prosecution, the daughter.
- [21:16]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Of former FBI director James Comey, who also tried Ghislaine Maxwell.
- [21:21]
Marjorie Hernandez
She's very experienced prosecutor, handles the big cases, sexual assault cases and having to do with human trafficking. So the fact that her name is in there and she's known as a very tough prosecutor and the Rest of the team also very decorated and it is all women and all women.
- [21:39]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Is that by design? What do we think?
- [21:42]
Marjorie Hernandez
I don't know. I don't know if that was just a luck of the draw, but it does just in the optics, it does really, I guess, I think puts a very strong impression that these are female attorneys and this is an important case that involves women victims mostly.
- [21:58]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Finally, Judge Aaron Subramanian. I've been writing his name all week, but hadn't had to say it out loud. He was a judge appointed by Joe Biden. What do we know about him? I saw a picture. TMZ had a picture of him walking into court where he looked like a student. He is of South Asian descent, I believe, and he seems pretty measured so far.
- [22:20]
Marjorie Hernandez
He is very tough and he really likes to keep control of the timing and really has warned both sides. Look, we have to get it together. You guys put your emotions together and we're going to get this trial going. So he's a no nonsense type of judge.
- [22:37]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Yeah. Well, let's move on to what we can expect on Monday because things are going to move really, really quickly. We discussed that Victim three is nowhere to be found. The prosecution said they will update the judge on Monday on that, but it does sound unlikely that Victim three will be there. However, we now know there's Victim five. Renato actually mentioned it briefly. It appears to be someone who has claims against Diddy that are not in the indictment. So I guess the prosecution is just trying to show a pattern of behavior with Victim five. But Marjorie, Cassie is the star of the prosecution here and as you mentioned, she's expected to be on the stand most of the week, heavily pregnant. Today her lawyer was in court and actually asked that the court please take breaks every 90 minutes because his client will need to take breaks as she discusses what she has described as horrific abuse. So that'll be quite something to watch.
- [23:42]
Marjorie Hernandez
And again, I think we mentioned it before, that now viral video of Cassie essentially getting attacked by diddy back in 2016 in a Los Angeles hotel. So it will be interesting to see Cassie there watching the video and being next to the man who allegedly harmed her for so many years in their relationship. Just, you know, being in that courtroom and seeing her react, I'm sure they haven't seen each other for years. So her actually facing him, a pregnant Cassie facing him, that would be a very explosive dynamic and we'll see how that pans out in court.
- [24:28]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Absolutely. And we have to remember, if it wasn't for Cassie's lawsuit would we be here right now? And I think that won't be lost on Diddy. So even his demeanor, will it stay as happily as happy and smiley as he's been so far? That's something we'll be watching for next week.
- [24:46]
Marjorie Hernandez
And something else that was interesting, I'll be sure was actually on Fox 5 New York this morning promoting his book, do you believe me now, which came up. Yeah.
- [24:56]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
In jury selection. They were at the because the Simon and Schuster executive was dismissed because she know she's part of the team that is working on that book.
- [25:07]
Marjorie Hernandez
So it was really, I don't know if it was timing, divine intervention, but Alby did speak about his book and in so many words, he said he believes that Diddy allegedly had something to do with his own illness. So let's take a listen.
- [25:22]
Al B. Sure
Many, many years ago, I posted some information that was, you know, basically trying to save my life. And thank goodness to my ex, the wonderful Kim Porter, the late Kim Porter, who, you know, kind of warned me all along the way to, you know, just kind of watch your back, so on and so forth. And I didn't understand why.
- [25:41]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Because of Diddy.
- [25:44]
Al B. Sure
Basically.
- [25:44]
Renato Stabil
Do you believe that she died of pneumonia?
- [25:46]
Al B. Sure
Absolutely not.
- [25:47]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Well, we'll also be waiting to see if Al B. Sure. Comes up in this trial.
- [25:52]
Marjorie Hernandez
Al B. Was the ex of Kim Porter, who Kim Porter also had a relationship with Diddy years and years.
- [25:58]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
They share a son. Right. Alvin Shorn, Kim Porter. But the son was raised by Diddy. Correct. And continues to stand by Diddy.
- [26:06]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yes. Quincy pretty much sees Diddy as his adopted dad.
- [26:10]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
So that's something to look forward to next week because I was thinking that we haven't seen Diddy's kids or his mom publicly support him in court or social media since November. From what I could see, they were not in court this week. Will they show up next week to support him?
- [26:25]
Marjorie Hernandez
I think so. I think they obviously are standing by him and they've had before they have been missing for a few weeks. They have always been there as a united front. So I'm sure they will all be there.
- [26:40]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Well, we'll be on standby for that. Episodes of the Trial of Diddy will be going live on on Tuesdays and Fridays with word for word details of the biggest moments in the trial.
- [26:55]
Marjorie Hernandez
The Trial of Diddy will be your only access to verbatim questioning and revelations going on in the trial.
- [27:03]
Hermania Rodriguez Poleo
Episodes will be hosted by me, Hermania Rodriguez Poleo and Kayla Brantley.
- [27:08]
Marjorie Hernandez
Tune in next week everywhere where you get your podcasts.