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- [00:02]
Marjorie Hernandez
Seriously popular.
- [00:04]
Lou Shapiro
The following episode explores a number of allegations regarding the artist Diddy. He denies all charges and has pled not guilty to sex trafficking, racketeering, and transportation to engage in prostitution. The biggest secret in the entertainment industry that really wasn't a secret at all has finally been revealed to the world.
- [00:26]
Kayla Brantley
At the height of his career, Sean.
- [00:28]
Marjorie Hernandez
Diddy Combs had it all. It seemed like everything Diddy touched turned to gold. Now the once untouchable hip hop mogul is fighting for his life as he faces multiple federal charges in New York, including sex trafficking and allegedly running a criminal enterprise.
- [00:46]
David Gelman
Music mogul and rapper Sean Diddy Combs has faced four different lawsuits in recent weeks alleging sexual assaults.
- [00:53]
Kayla Brantley
Can be seen grabbing Ventura and throwing her to the ground.
- [00:56]
Marjorie Hernandez
Oh, this guy is dangerous.
- [00:58]
Kayla Brantley
Every woman has now come forward.
- [01:00]
Lou Shapiro
A legend comes of sexual assault. She was drugged and sexually assaulted by Combs.
- [01:05]
Marjorie Hernandez
I'm DailyMail.com journalist Marjorie Hernandez, and over the last six months, I've been investigating this incredible story and speaking to the people in the eye of the storm. Welcome to the trial of Diddy.
- [01:24]
David Gelman
Hey, I'm Kayla Brantley, reporter at large for the Daily Mail in Manhattan.
- [01:28]
Kayla Brantley
And I'm Marjorie Hernandez, DailyMail.com's West Coast News editor.
- [01:32]
David Gelman
And welcome to the trial of Diddy. And what a week it's been. Marge.
- [01:37]
Kayla Brantley
Oh, busy as always. There's always something going on with this case. And today, our friend of the pod, Megan Kuneff, reporter, she just tweeted that attorney Tony Busby has moved to withdraw from seven more lawsuits against Sean Diddy Combs after a judge called him out for not being admitted to practice in the Southern District of New York. And I believe he also did so the other day. So this now makes, I believe, eight notices essentially saying that he cannot represent the plaintiffs in the case because he possibly is not able to practice in that area. Southern District of New York.
- [02:16]
David Gelman
Yeah, and Tony Busby is a name that we've been hearing every single week on this show. He's been representing numerous alleged victims, numerous Diddy accusers. So this is really shocking because I feel like a lot of these cases do come out of New York. And this is a Texas based attorney, so it seems like there's some legal stuff going on there in the weeds.
- [02:38]
Kayla Brantley
Right. A few weeks ago, he went on his Instagram and said that, look, I am able to practice since 2019, so that doesn't stop me from being involved in these cases. But it is quite shocking that he's now pulling himself out of at least eight cases. Now. So we'll see what will happen there because he has been, like you said, Kayla, the face of these cases. Now we've reached out to Tony's Busby for comment, but in the meantime, Tony Busby has posted something on his Instagram and it reads, quote, the Texas Lawyer, a publication for lawyers that name me in the recent past. Attorney of the Year reports today that I am, quote, under siege from multiple lawsuits from both D. Jay Z's folks and former clients. Is it true that after I brought cases against certain celebrities for alleged sexual abuse that an army of unscrupulous New York investigators illegally solicited a large number of my former clients and offered them money to file frivolous cases against me and my firm? Yes, that's certainly true. The transcripts don't lie. Are they trying to discredit me? They certainly are trying to. Did a few former clients take the bait and file a few cases? Unfortunately. So one of those cases has already been tossed and I expect the other two will be tossed as well. But am I under siege? That's a bit dramatic. I don't feel that I am unless you consider being accosted by a miniature donkey to be under siege. And in the Post there is A picture of Mr. Busby in a truck next to a donkey. That is again from Texas space attorney Tony Busby. And we will bring you his comment if and when we get one from him.
- [04:30]
David Gelman
Last Friday, we jumped right back into making an extra show to cover Diddy's appearance in a New York courtroom. And as you can see, we're here a few days later and there's still so much more to cover.
- [04:43]
Kayla Brantley
Yeah, that's right. And I think it's worth saying that a lot of people were surprised about Diddy's physical appearance in the courtroom last week. We had a reporter there and he said, did he let his hair grow out white, that he has a new white beard and he might actually also put on some weight as well. So there's this whole new older man look going on with Diddy right now. Now he is accused of running a decades long criminal empire, including orgies now infamously known as freak offs, where participants were allegedly drugged and forced into lengthy sex sessions, sometimes with male prostitutes.
- [05:20]
David Gelman
Diddy has always, always denied the charges of racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution. And there's now just under two months to go until this trial. And speaking of which, we do have that May 5th start, start date, but we are starting with jury selection now. That's going to last a week and then opening statements. The real beginning of the trial will start on May 12th. So our friend of the podcast, attorney David Gelman, he was kind of right that, you know, the trial will not really start on May 5th, but it is starting on May 5th with jury selection. So give or take, he was kind of right, kind of wrong, whatever. But until then, Diddy is of course, being held at the Metropolitan Detention center in Brooklyn, New York. So what is new this week? Marjorie, what's the news?
- [06:12]
Kayla Brantley
In a remarkable burst of activity this.
- [06:14]
Marjorie Hernandez
Week, Christina Karam, who is Diddy's former.
- [06:17]
Kayla Brantley
Chief of staff, has given a statement to Rolling Stone reporter Cheyenne Roundtree. In it, Karam, who's been named in three lawsuits associated with Diddy, said the accusations against her were, quote, disturbing and unthinkable. And she denied that she ever, quote, condoned or aided and abetted the sexual assault of anyone, nor have I ever drugged anyone.
- [06:39]
David Gelman
Christina Kromm went on to say, quote, for months, horrific accusations have been made about me in various lawsuits regarding my former boss. These false allegations of my involvement are causing irreparable and incalculable damage to my reputation and the emotional well being of myself and my family. The idea that I could be accused of playing a role in or even being a bystander to the rape of anyone is beyond upsetting, disturbing and unthinkable. Thinkable. That is not who I am. And my heart goes out to all victims of sexual assault. I am confident that the allegations against me will be proven to be untrue.
- [07:15]
Kayla Brantley
And of course, when Cassie Ventura filed her lawsuit against me for physical assault and rape, Karam was witnessed sitting by Combs in Miami. That case was, as you'll remember, settled the following day, despite Combs trying to deny the claims. In February of last year, producer Rodney Lilrod Jones claimed Karam was then, quote, ghislaine Maxwell to Sean Combs, Jeffrey Epstein, and his own sexual harassment and assault lawsuit against Diddy.
- [07:43]
David Gelman
And as you might remember, that Jones alleged in his lawsuit that when he told Karam about the unwanted encounters he'd had with Combs, she allegedly responded, you know, Sean will be Sean. And he claimed, quote, attempted to downplay Mr. Combs groping as friendly horseplay, stating that Those acts were Mr. Combs way of, quote, showing that he likes you. Jones's lawsuit also alleged that Karam had oversight across all aspects of Diddy's personal life, including paying hired sex workers and requiring all of his personal employees to carry a bag filled with a variety of illicit substances that she allegedly ordered and distributed, including, quote, cocaine, ghb, ecstasy, marijuana gummies, and tusi, which is a pink drug that is a combination of ecstasy and cocaine.
- [08:29]
Kayla Brantley
Combs lawyers have, as we have stated many times, denied all claims, saying, quote, no matter how many any lawsuits are filed, it won't change the fact that Mr. Combs has never sexually assaulted or sex trafficked anyone, man or woman, adult or minor.
- [08:46]
David Gelman
Yeah, and there's more. Just this week, the Shade Room released a video purporting to show Kanye west talking on the phone with Diddy, who's behind bars. Now, the video appears to have been recorded by Kanye from his perspective with Diddy on speakerphone, but it's not clear who actually leaked the clip, but it was released as the Shade Rooms exclusive. Exclusive. A story in the New York Post has an insider saying, quote, puff didn't know it was being recorded and that Diddy, quote, thought he was having a friend call him to check on his kids.
- [09:19]
Kayla Brantley
On his call, Diddy instructed Kanye to, quote, have some effing fun and to, quote, get behind the mic. Now, there's been some online speculation about the recordings authenticity, but the Post source confirmed that the call was real and not AI. And you know, Kanye being Kanye, he sampled some of Diddy's warm words from the call and use them as an intro for a new song called Lonely Road. Still Go to Sunshine. That last Saturday, he shared a snippet of innocence deleted posts on X. We'll also definitely get into that with Lucia Pirro in this week's interview.
- [09:57]
David Gelman
And with all that being said, let's meet this week's guest, LA based state and federal criminal law attorney Lou Shapiro. Marjorie caught up with Lou late last night after he'd had another full day in court. And here they are.
- [10:12]
Marjorie Hernandez
Well, welcome back to the trial of Diddy. And today we have attorney and legal analyst Lou Shapiro. Thanks so much, Lou, for coming back to our show.
- [10:21]
Lou Shapiro
My pleasure. Good to be with you again.
- [10:24]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yes. And can you kindly tell us first your background in federal criminal courts?
- [10:29]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah, sure. I'm a criminal defense attorney, formerly worked for the government, Los Angeles County Public Defender's office. Since then, I've started my own criminal law practice 10 plus years ago where I do state and federal criminal defense.
- [10:43]
Marjorie Hernandez
He has a lot of experience with analyzing a lot of these big cases. So very fortunate to have you on the show. Now, Lou, a lot has happened since we last spoke. Diddy is now in federal lockup. Since, gosh, September 16th, he has remained there for gosh, despite several attempts to be released, out on bail. And now actually looks like the May. May 5 date court date will, will be pushed back by a week. The trial looks like it's going to start now on May 12th. Now, do you anticipate that it will actually move forward on May 12?
- [11:17]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah, it seems like the judge is trying to keep the trial timeline on a shorter leash. Now the final pieces of discovery and names of the alleged victims are being provided. So we are definitely nearing the finish line in terms of the pre trial phase.
- [11:33]
Marjorie Hernandez
And just today, as you mentioned, the federal prosecutors were told to hand over the names of those three alleged victims who are again connected to the federal criminal indictment. And the judge's order said their identities were disclosed to Diddy's attorneys, quote, under attorney's eyes only designation. Can you explain what that means? Since Diddy's own attorneys had previously referred to Cassie as victim one.
- [12:01]
Lou Shapiro
Right. So when it comes to victims of sexual abuse or domestic violence, the courts tried to make all efforts to protect those names, keep them confidential to prevent further harassment or embarrassment and so forth. So that's why the judge said to the attorneys, you can have this information, you can do what you want with it in terms of investigating their backgrounds with their statements and so forth. You just can't release that information to the general public.
- [12:29]
Marjorie Hernandez
But the fact was, I think Diddy's attorneys actually also said that the other victims were possible former girlfriends. Would that affect the case in terms of what will be discussed moving forward now that these names are sealed for now.
- [12:43]
Lou Shapiro
So even if they were previously disclosed by counsel, because the judge made an order, from here on moving forward, they won't be able to say the names of those individuals out loud, even if it's obvious.
- [12:54]
Marjorie Hernandez
Now, how about witnesses in the case? There hasn't been a release of any witness lists as far as we've heard. But could that be made available or made public anytime soon?
- [13:07]
Lou Shapiro
Yes. Typically witness lists are provided shortly before trial. People of both sides are making last minute changes to who they're going to be calling or not. And in that sense, they're provided to the court. And I don't see why the judge wouldn't allow those witnesses names to be at least provided to the public. I think the judge is going to be conducting a balancing test because there is that right of the public also to, you know, to the press to understand the court system and right of information. So he'll be balancing that or she'll be balancing that.
- [13:39]
Marjorie Hernandez
Wow. Given the fact that these allegations span years and also given who the Defendant is. What do you expect that witness list to look like? Some A listers? Possibly.
- [13:53]
Lou Shapiro
Well, it also depends on who's willing to cooperate with the government in this case. I don't expect a lot of witnesses on Diddy's side. I expect a longer witness list on the prosecution side. But again, they probably would want to call some A listers, but A listers probably want to stay as far away as they can from a proceeding like this so as not to be associated with Diddy in any way.
- [14:18]
Marjorie Hernandez
You talked a little bit about the gag order. So how will that work? Will the public not learn the names of the folks and the witnesses until trial starts, or will that be released earlier? Like we're now in the pre trial motion phase.
- [14:34]
Kayla Brantley
Right, right.
- [14:36]
Lou Shapiro
It depends how comprehensive the judge wants to make that order. He could tell everybody in the room, whoever is in the trial, that they're not allowed to release any information about the witnesses or the victims in the case. We have to see how the judge plays that we don't know yet.
- [14:56]
Marjorie Hernandez
Oh, now could the judge actually close the court when Victims 1, 2, and 3 testify?
- [15:03]
Lou Shapiro
Yes, the judge can order that everybody else, except for the parties involved, exit the courtroom and have that part of the proceedings closed.
- [15:11]
Marjorie Hernandez
Oh, wow. Does that happen often?
- [15:14]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah, it does happen, especially when it's requested by the victims. It's. It's certainly something that. That is common.
- [15:22]
David Gelman
Yes.
- [15:23]
Marjorie Hernandez
So then the witness's testimony will not be public or the transcript would be sealed. Is that what will happen? Or what could happen?
- [15:31]
Lou Shapiro
So the testimony would be public, just their names would not be.
- [15:35]
Marjorie Hernandez
So the transcripts of the testimony would be public, but their names will be kept out. I know, like the Weinstein case, it wasn't open court and they did testify in person. I guess some of their names were not made public. Right, right.
- [15:48]
Lou Shapiro
Because some wanted, I think, send a message to the public and, and stand for what they were testifying about and wanted to be reached out because they have a story to tell and they wanted to to tell it, but others wanted to remain under the radar. So it's a personal decision made by the accusers.
- [16:05]
David Gelman
There's more coming up, but for now, let's pause for a break. Welcome back to the trial of Diddy. We're still here with attorney Lou Shapiro.
- [16:28]
Marjorie Hernandez
Now, there was some discussion at Diddy's hearing last week that the jury might possibly be sequestered or that there might be some indication that could be a possibility. Do you think this will actually happen in this case?
- [16:43]
Lou Shapiro
No, I don't think they're going to be sequestered, like in the O.J. case, where they're taking a hotels and being given food and no access to television and so forth, because back then you could actually have a chance at sequestering a jury, meaning cutting them off from the media and so forth, so it won't influence their decision making in the trial. These days, with phones, tablets and computer systems, which we all rely on, it's just unreasonable to expect a juror to not be able to know what's going on in the public, because it's unreasonable. I don't think a judge would even bother with sequestering these days, and that's why we don't hear about it anymore.
- [17:19]
Marjorie Hernandez
Oh, that's interesting. You think that because there's more access to media and all of that, that there would be a sequester. But I guess taking from your standpoint, like there's. It's really almost an impossibility to even avoid that. But the judge does tell the jurors that they're not supposed to read and consume any news having to do with the case, correct?
- [17:41]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah. The judge will admonish them when every. Every break and when they go home, do not read, speak about, talk about, or watch any materials related to this case. If you've ever been on jury duty, you want to keep that honor as much as you can.
- [17:53]
Marjorie Hernandez
I mean, just the shit. Thinking of even trying to sequester a jury for this case and how long it could take. I don't recall how much sequestering the O.J. simpson case jurors were, but they were out there for like eight and a half months or something, right?
- [18:07]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah. Like I said, I don't think we're ever going to see something like that again.
- [18:11]
Marjorie Hernandez
Now, one of the more talked about developments from last week's hearing was actually Diddy's physical appearance. And it sounds like he is giving up on dyeing his hair. And he was noticeably gray and had gained some weight. Now, we actually, actually had a reporter out there, Dan Bates. He's covered the case for a while now, and he was actually shocked to see how did he look. And he had wondered, you know, could this be a way for Diddy to gain some sympathy from potential jurors now that he's getting ready for trial? And I was wondering, you know, what your thoughts were on that.
- [18:44]
Lou Shapiro
I think it's. It's really not in Diddy's hands even how he's looking to that extent, because it's not like he can go get his Hair done in the cell there. Right. So he has to play with the hand that he's dealt. I don't think he's intentionally looking for sympathy or anything like that. It's just the nature of having to defend a case from the inside. It's very challenging. He'll. I'm sure he'll be wearing a suit and tie at the trial itself. He'll be well groomed, shaven and so forth.
- [19:09]
Marjorie Hernandez
I'm sure it's very stressful leading up to the trial, obviously.
- [19:12]
Lou Shapiro
Oh, I mean, yeah, just all sorts of thoughts are going through somebody's mind. The defense is going to be that this is all consensual. So it's going to come down to credibility, who is believed, who has motive, and just all sorts of thoughts are going through somebody's mind. What the jurors are going to think, what the judge is going to do. It doesn't get more stressful than this, especially because it's federal, not state. So there's a lot of time on the line here for him.
- [19:35]
Marjorie Hernandez
Christina Karam, who's Diddy's senior executive chief of staff of Bad Boy or formerly, has actually broken her silence and issued a statement for our listeners. She actually has also been named on at least three different civil cases along with Diddy. And those civil cases have having to do with sexual assault allegations. And I was wondering, now that she broke her silence, do you think that this will actually play a role in that? Christina might be called.
- [20:06]
Lou Shapiro
Well, it depends who we're talking about. Right. Meaning the prosecution may want to call her and we'll see if she wants to have any kind of involvement for that matter, in this case. But certainly she's not going to be testifying on Diddy's behalf. That we know.
- [20:19]
Marjorie Hernandez
One other interesting thing that broke earlier this week was this video between Diddy and Kanye. I guess Diddy had called Kanye and Kanye recorded himself talking to Diddy over to jail phone call. And essentially Diddy was telling Kanye, you have to look out and, you know, you have to take care of yourself. And it was a really interesting exchange. Was wondering if you saw it first of all, Lewin, and if you have any thoughts on it. And could that even actually, actually play somehow in the criminal trial?
- [20:53]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah. So Diddy and Kanye speaking. It won't have any effect in the trial itself. Only acts or evidence that took place during the incidents will come into play. But it does show you, moreover, how Hollywood is really not behind Diddy on this one. Because if Kanye is the one that he's sort of resorting to speak with it shows you much that he's pretty much on his own at this point, and all he's got is Kanye in his corner.
- [21:16]
Marjorie Hernandez
So if you're defending Diddy and he's getting ready to fight for his life, former friends are now, you know, distancing themselves from him. What do you say to him now that he's weeks into again fighting for his life in court?
- [21:30]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah. So the idea is, again, we haven't seen the actual evidence in the case. We did see that video regarding Cassie. And that is. Is so offensive and disturbing. The greatest of lawyers, I don't know how one can get around that. I guess the only argument will be that he's on trial for sex trafficking and racketeering hearing not for domestic violence, but this is not evidence of sexual abuse and so forth. So that, that's the. The main piece of evidence that we know is out there. It's going to be tough to. To get around, but that's the only way to address that. Overall, Diddy said this is going to be about consent. We can expect a large part of the argument by the defense will be, where were these three accusers 10 years ago or five years ago? Why are they all coming out of the woodwork now? These were not children. These are adults. So that's where it gets a little gray. And did he's going to say it was all consensual. They're going to have to say otherwise. And unless there are percipient witnesses to those incidents to say, yeah, I was there, I can tell you that this person was not consenting, this person was and so forth. It's going to come down to a real he said, she said case. And we don't know how those alleged victims are going to come across on the stand under cross examination. But we can expect that Diddy's counsel will be putting up some serious, ferocious and fearsome cross examination because that's the only hope of trying to get Diddy out of this situation.
- [22:54]
Marjorie Hernandez
And again, you mentioned right now there's three victims. However, can they call other potential witnesses that could testify to maybe a pattern of abuse that Diddy has allegedly had over other folks?
- [23:09]
Lou Shapiro
Yes, uncharged victims or witnesses can be brought in. At the same time, a judge is going to perform a balancing test because if too many are brought in, then it could be deemed more prejudicial than probative and basically not allow the jury to focus on these three victims. They're just going to get lost in the Overall evidence that being presented like we saw in the Cosby case. Cosby was the hung jury the first time. Second trial, the judge let in more witnesses, testify against previous conduct. But the court of appeal ended up reversing that conviction, saying that was just too much for a jury to swallow.
- [23:45]
Marjorie Hernandez
A case like this, do you think it'll take weeks, months? What's your prediction on that?
- [23:50]
Lou Shapiro
I think it's going to take minimum two to three weeks. But federal cases do tend to run quicker than state cases. They go longer hours. Lunches are less in terms of the time of the day, not an hour and a half lunches like in state court. So it moves. So while a state court case like this might take four to five weeks, this could take two to three. We're assuming it's, it's not a lot of witnesses. If it's anywhere from like five to ten witnesses in total, we're talking about a two, three week trial, max. It's 20 witnesses on the four week track.
- [24:24]
Marjorie Hernandez
Obviously, we're waiting for May 12th, when the criminal case will start. But he's also facing a slew of allegations in civil court. There's more than 30 now of cases against him as he's going through his federal trial. What happens to those cases?
- [24:43]
Lou Shapiro
Those cases are state. They're basically frozen pending what happens at the criminal case. And that's routinely done when you have, when somebody has both a criminal and civil case going at the same time, the criminal one takes precedence.
- [24:55]
Marjorie Hernandez
Right. I wonder if some of those potential witnesses or folks who have actually filed against him could be even called in his criminal case. We shall see.
- [25:05]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah, it's very likely there's overlap.
- [25:07]
Marjorie Hernandez
What do you expect in terms of trial preparation to gear up for May 12th?
- [25:13]
Lou Shapiro
Well, they're making sure that all the witnesses that they intend on calling, that their testimony is organized, how they come across that. They might be running what's called mock jury proceedings, where they have other jurors that are being paid to hear how these witnesses come across so they can figure out maybe how to tweak the form or things that they're saying or how they say it. Also in terms of timelines, exhibits, what will be presented to the jury. Are they clean, are they easy to understand, PowerPoint slides, checking out, making sure grammar, spelling is correct. All those factors are being put into place right now.
- [25:45]
Marjorie Hernandez
When you talked about the list, you're talking about the questionnaire, the voidir.
- [25:48]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah. Part of it is the wadir. All the questions that are going to be asked to the jury as well as questions that are going to be asked of witnesses. When you start a trial, you basically work from the end backwards so you know where you want to get to. And based on where your end game is, you think, okay, how do I get to this goal of proving that everything was consensual? What witnesses, what pieces of evidence, what timeline, what arguments, what jury instructions, what questions in voir dire? For example, a question in voir dire would be, does anybody believe that an alleged victim of a sexual assault crime could be lying? Could you see that as a possibility? Why would somebody lie? Right. And if a juror is going to say, no, I always would believe a victim no matter what, then they wouldn't be able to sit on a jury like this. This jury would be for only open minded, impartial individuals that can hear both sides and then after hearing all the evidence, make a fair decision.
- [26:45]
Marjorie Hernandez
It'll be also interesting to see who the jury poll would be because Diddy is such a huge figure, obviously in New York, globally, he's known all over. So to pick a jury that hasn't heard much about him or are the allegations against him is that close to impossible?
- [27:03]
Lou Shapiro
Right. So the question that's going to be asked to the jury is, of course they've all heard of him, but even though they have heard of him, can they set aside what he has achieved in terms of his profession and just be impartial and apply the facts to the law? In this case, that's what they will be asked to do.
- [27:21]
Marjorie Hernandez
Well, we'll see how that all shakes down in just a few weeks. It looks like it's in a steady pace to actually move forward in May.
- [27:28]
Lou Shapiro
Yeah, it will be here before we know it.
- [27:30]
David Gelman
So for now, that's it. Thanks again to this week's guest, Lou Shapiro. And as we prepare for Diddy's trial in May, what other trials would you like us to cover? Let us know by email the trial dailymail.com or you can WhatsApp us at 447-7966-57512. Make sure to start your message with Trial.
- [27:55]
Kayla Brantley
As ever, thank you for listening. Please share all your comments, suggestions and thoughts on the trial of Diddy on Apple or Spotify. And follow us on TikTok TikTok@DailyMailCrime. Do follow the trial of Diddy as we will be here each week with fresh information, new insights and some expert guests.
- [28:16]
David Gelman
Goodbye.