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- [00:03]
Kayla Brantley
The Crime Desk Arresting Podcasts
- [00:07]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
it's called crimecon. The name could suggest an event that makes a spectacle of tragedy. While it does offer a display of fascinating stories and ideas, it's also a chance for victims of devastating acts of violence or their families to share stories, raise awareness and find camaraderie. For some, it's a way to spread spread their messages long after their stories have disappeared from headlines. For others, it's an opportunity to share crime solving or crime prevention tactics, or call attention to unsolved crimes. I was at this year's Crime Con in Las Vegas the last weekend of May, where the Daily Mail's Crime Desk team interviewed participants and visitors. In last week's episode, we brought you our full interview with the parents of Kaylee Goncalves, the University of Idaho student who was stabbed nearly 40 times in an off campus house where she and three friends were murdered in 2022 by Brian Kohberger. This week I'll take you on a tour of CrimeCon in Las Vegas, where we spoke to a family of a baby that was kidnapped from his crib in 1986 and others. I'm Kayla Brantley and this is the Trial usa. We'll be back in a moment.
- [01:25]
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- [01:56]
Kayla Brantley
Romina mal steps into McDonald's, looks left,
- [01:58]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez, gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner
- [02:03]
Pablo Torre
with a FIFA World cup meal.
- [02:05]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Ronaldinho sees son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henry who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World cup meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026.
- [02:25]
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- [03:27]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
Christopher Abeto was taken from his Colorado Springs home as a seven month old nearly four decades ago, and the case has been cold for years. His parents have died, but his sister and her family have not stopped looking for answers. I spoke to Christopher's niece about her family's campaign to push investigators to reconsider a woman who they say had been having an affair with Christopher's father around the time of his disappearance. I spoke to a niece that Christopher never got to meet who is now part of a campaign for answers that has gone on for generations. Okay, what are you doing here at CrimeCon?
- [04:03]
Christopher Abeto's Niece
So I'm here at CrimeCon on behalf of my uncle, Christopher Abeda. He was kidnapped from his crib at seven months old in the middle of the night in 1986. The police severely mishandled Christopher's case on numerous occasions, and so we're here at CrimeCon to hopefully bring more awareness to his case and then also get public pressure. We have a QR code that people can scan that sends an email to the district Attorney, Attorney General and Colorado Springs mayor's offices.
- [04:28]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
And is this your first CrimeCon?
- [04:30]
Christopher Abeto's Niece
This is our first time having a booth. Last year we came to crimecon. It was in Denver and we handed out cards because Christopher went missing out of Colorado. But this is our first time having him here.
- [04:41]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
And why is it important for you guys to be at CrimeCon?
- [04:45]
Christopher Abeto's Niece
It's a very interesting feeling being here as a victim's family member at CrimeCon. But what we've realized is that these people here are the ones that are super interested and want to hear our story and are the storytellers that we want more than anything. Public pressure on the Colorado Springs Police Department. And this is the ultimate place to be where we can get that pressure from people who are so passionate and care about our stories.
- [05:08]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
And what do you make of the true crime community?
- [05:12]
Christopher Abeto's Niece
It's really interesting. I think it's cool that you have so many people that are at home and invested in these stories. I don't think that our police departments have the minds of a million individuals the way that when a story gets told in the public, you have a million minds and computers that can go and do their own research. I think it's really, really cool that people are invested and want to help solve crimes. I'm here with my mom. Obviously I never met my uncle because he was kidnapped. But when you see someone go through something so horrible and you see someone you love, just keep trying and trying, you really, really want to be there and want to keep searching for answers. So we're here at CrimeCon to help bring the answers to our family.
- [05:51]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
My colleague Luke Kenton sat down at CrimeCon with Nicole Ernest Pate, a survivor of a serial rapist in Northern California who waited nearly 30 years for justice. In her case, decades after the home invasion, sexual assault by a masked predator, advanced DNA evidence linked Roy Charles Waller to a string of horrific attacks on women. He was sentenced to nearly 900 years in prison. Related to nine victims in 2020. Nicole, who spoke on a CrimeCon panel, has been one of the most visible of Waller's victims, presenting resilience and poised to overcome the life changing experience. She shared with Luke. Her story of determination to not let her trauma overtake her life, and she hopes others in her position can follow suit. Nicole also revealed that her police report in 1991 was met with skepticism and hostility. A female detective assigned to her case suggested that Nicole's story of a masked intruder was too unlikely to be true. A reaction that left her baffled at the time.
- [06:54]
Luke Kenton
We'll talk about a little bit about your. Your panel that you did earlier, which was amazing, as we discussed. So good. One thing I did want to ask you about is when Roy was arrested in 2018.
- [07:02]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yes.
- [07:03]
Luke Kenton
One of the first statements you gave was a very defiant message. I think you said you didn't destroy me was the message that you put out.
- [07:10]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Right.
- [07:11]
Luke Kenton
Talk me through that. Talk me through what that message meant at the time and also why you felt it was important to share that when you did?
- [07:18]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
It's a good question. A couple of reasons, actually. One, because it's accurate. I wanted him to know that even though you've had a grip on all of these women. And that's not to say that I didn't walk around terrified for years. I certainly did and lived that way forever. It's very hard to live not ever having seen a face or not knowing who this person is. I could be anywhere. Right. So that's a difficult thing. But I wanted to make sure that he knew and the public also knew that he didn't destroy me and that you don't have to be destroyed. That was really important for me to express that if you are able to deal with what's happened to you in the ways that are healthy, that can help you actually recover, it doesn't have to ruin your life. A lot of people think this will destroy, and it does destroy a lot of people. And I wanted to put a message out there as soon as I could that it doesn't have to and reach out to people who can help you get through it so that it doesn't have to.
- [08:09]
Luke Kenton
Excellent. And something you did discuss today in quite a lot of depth was the importance of changing the way that we talk about rape and the ways in which we talk about victims of rape as well.
- [08:19]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yes.
- [08:19]
Luke Kenton
If we succeed in doing that and doing some of the things that you said today, what benefit do you think it would have moving forward for other women that unfortunately go through this?
- [08:27]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
I think ultimately, one, it'll, I think, help the women become healthier and stronger and knowing that they can stand in their own humanity and that you shouldn't ever let somebody take that humanity from you. Because that's really the goal is to steal you of your dignity and humanity. And unfortunately, society at large allows, kind of gives the permission structure to allow that to happen and continue to happen. I think ultimately a couple things will hopefully start to reduce the amount of sexual assault that happens. It's so rampant and so under reported and so under discussed that I think the more you discuss it, the more you bring it out, the more it's on the table, the more it's, I don't wanna say normalized, but discussing it as normalized and really facing it. I don't think we worldwide, but certainly here in the US we haven't faced it. We don't face it head on. It's not something that we really truly. It's sort of this concept for people. And I think that giving that room and space for women to really, truly talk about this and own it and say, this happened to me, and I'm going to go after this person who did this to me, because it is a crime. At the end of the day, it's crime. It's violent crime. Truly holding them accountable, because we certainly don't do that. I think it'll start to reduce the number of times this happens to people, because I think people are going to become much more aware. I brought up today, like parents, be aware of signals and signs with your young boys. There are things that happen in people's lives that they become predators. We should recognize what those signs are and not be afraid to talk about it and recognize it and say, you know what? Humans are complex. They're complex. So let's address that they're complex and treat what we need to treat. Identify issues when they come up in small children and instead of turning away, leaning into that, and then hopefully it'll reduce the number of people who. Who get violated and attacked.
- [10:15]
Luke Kenton
Absolutely. I mean, and something that was. Was fascinating to speak about today was when you were recording in great detail, you know, what was going through your mind as this was happening to you. And one of the things you said was, you remember, you know, you were essentially floating above your body and you were begging yourself in your mind to say, see his face. See his face. Obviously, you couldn't. I was curious to know what was it like? I mean, you know, 27 years later or so, you would find out what he looked like, but during that intermission.
- [10:40]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah.
- [10:40]
Luke Kenton
What was it like to live with not knowing what this person looked like? And in your mind, did you build up a picture of. Of who he was?
- [10:47]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
You know, it's interesting. I didn't. I kind of knew. In the podcast, you hear me talk about how I was able to actually feel his face at one point. And so I was able to identify what he looked like within a few seconds and described it pretty closely to what he actually looked like. And so I knew kind of what he looked like from his face structure. And so I would see people who kind of look like that. And I was a hairstylist at the time, so keep in mind, I thought this could have been a client of mine. I had no idea who this was, so I walked around living with that for a really long time. It's very hard. It's a strange. It's hard to describe. It's. You know, I didn't want to walk around in fear all the time, but I was definitely, like, paying attention to people, and I Would be at stores and go, well, that could be him, or that could be him, or it could be my neighbor. It's a very surreal way to live. And you can either choose to be buried by it or stand up and say, well, it sounds weird. For. For a long time, I almost kind of wanted him to come back after me, because then I would be prepared and I could catch him. That was what would go through my head. I mean, it's kind of a silly thing to think, but I actually talked to other victims in this case, and they thought the same thing. They were like, yeah, come back. Come get me next time, because I'm prepared for you this time, and then we can catch you.
- [11:57]
Luke Kenton
Wow.
- [11:58]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
So I don't think it's that unusual for. For people that, like, whatever I need to do to figure out who you are.
- [12:02]
Luke Kenton
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:04]
Kartisha Morgan
The.
- [12:04]
Luke Kenton
And, you know, 27 years later, you would get that moment to see his face.
- [12:08]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah.
- [12:09]
Luke Kenton
And you spoke about a bit today where he was told not to, but he did turn around and scan the courtroom and locked eyes with you.
- [12:15]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah.
- [12:15]
Luke Kenton
And you had that moment. What was that like to experience after so many years of waiting, you were finally able to kind of front him up and see.
- [12:23]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah.
- [12:24]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
What was that?
- [12:25]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah. It's interesting because I was like, I'm not going to be scared of him, and he's not going to own me. And then I got. And then as soon as he stared at me, and it was a split second, this was not. This was not a long period of time. And I was sitting with another victim, and he was looking kind of at both of them, but I looked him square in the eyes, and I felt like my blood left my. I was terrified, absolutely terrified. And I didn't want him to ever find out. I was terrified, but I was terrified at that moment. Shaking. Like, I just saw him for the first time ever. I had never seen his face, and it was so fast, But I'll never forget was very, very scary.
- [12:58]
Luke Kenton
You said today as well that something that really stuck out to you was the look in his eye and the message that you received from that. What was your interpretation of that look?
- [13:06]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
I sat there and I thought the look on his face was, bitch, I should have killed you that night. Because I've been pretty outspoken about this for many years, Trying to catch him, really advocating pushing the police once we knew he was a serial rapist, being pretty loud and outspoken about catching him. And so. And I'm sure he had seen me in interviews, you know, and that kind of thing. And so. Or maybe he didn't, but that's the interpretation I got from that. Look, bitch, I should have killed you that night.
- [13:32]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Wow.
- [13:32]
Luke Kenton
You said today that during the attack, he spoke to you a lot of times. Was there anything that you. You latched onto in those years when you were waiting and advocating to catch this guy? Was there anything that he said specifically to you that either stuck with you for reasons that were frightening or that stuck with you because you believed it may be a key to actually figuring out who this guy was?
- [13:54]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
That's a good question. I think both. There were a few things that he said that sort of revealed not his character, but a little bit about who I thought he was. Well, that's why I thought he was a police officer. I was wrong about that. But I did think he was a police officer. By the way, some of the things he said and the way he spoke, the formality with which he said words and his gun and those kinds of things. Just. Just kept thinking, this guy's a cop or wanted to be a cop or something. Mostly what I remembered are the sadistic things that he said. You know, like when he finally left after the hours of, you know, making you think he's gone, and you think, okay, can I try to get myself loose somehow? And then, oh, I'm still here. You know, he would do that intentionally, sadistically, for hours. One of the things, when he was finally leaving, I could hear him sort of turn around, and he said, you know, you should lock your doors from now on. Somebody might come in and try and hurt you. Exactly like that. And I was like, wow, this guy is just insane. He's just insane. You know, and all the, you know, you're the kindest person I've ever met. I can't believe I did this to you. And, you know, but I'm going to shoot you in a couple hours. Those kinds of things. Like, that's what he was like. And he was like that with all of us, apparently, from what I understand.
- [15:01]
Luke Kenton
I mean, those. Those words are obviously awful, and to have that echoing around in your mind. But on top of that, what you would learn during these interactions as well is that he'd likely been in your house before. He'd been keeping tabs on you for ages, knew your schedule, knew that your plans had changed that night.
- [15:19]
Pablo Torre
Yeah.
- [15:20]
Luke Kenton
The level with which you were being surveyed by him was obviously a lot. Just from a personal standpoint, moving past the attack. And what was it like for you to try and reconcile that. That somebody had been watching you all this time. And did it affect your life in the years ahead or your behavior or anything like that?
- [15:38]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
You know, it's interesting you would think I would have a radar for, like, stalker crazy after that. I did not. And I sort of had a, hey, if you're, like, a weird stalker dude, you should come talk to me. I mean, my husband will be like, can you stop talking? To lose people. And so, because I'm, like, very compassionate with people who maybe are, like, rejected by society and, you know, I befriend those kinds of people. And then a couple time, few times in my life, I figured out, oh, no, this is a really strange, stalker, weird person. And everybody around me was telling me that, and I'm like, no, they're the nicest guy in the world. So my radar did not sharpen, which is weird. What it did sharpen was, I will never sleep in an unlocked house ever again. Like, I. You know, there are a couple times when maybe somebody in my family forgot to lock the door, and I would completely freak out. Like, you have to lock all doors at all times. And I'm still that way. But it's a. It's a surreal thing to think about knowing that somebody's been watching you. I think I really only thought about it directly that night and directly after that. Like, this guy's been in my house doing whatever in my house. That's a very disgusting feeling.
- [16:43]
Luke Kenton
Yeah.
- [16:43]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Knowing that.
- [16:44]
Luke Kenton
And, you know, second to that, I can imagine. And correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, the. Why me? Have you ever. Yeah, that question racing through your mind all the time. But second to that, have you ever had any sort of understanding of. Of how you cross paths with this guy to begin with and maybe why that he.
- [17:03]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah, in fact, it's part of the podcast. We didn't get into it in the session today was big. Part of the podcast is that immediately when he was convicted, I wanted to go to prison and meet him because he's given us no answers. He's not admitted to a thing, still says he was framed. It wasn't him. I don't care if it's my DNA all over and inside these women. It doesn't matter. It wasn't me. Which is stunning in and of itself. He testified in his own trial, too, which anybody in the United States will understand. Like, that's insane. Like, what are you doing? But it also fits with him being a narcissistic sociopath. Again, I'm not a psychiatrist, but he seems like one to me. Definitely a sociopath. So, yeah, I've always wondered, why me? How did you find logistically, I've wondered how he did it. Like he had a child at home, a new baby, and I don't know if they were married, but a partner, a long term partner at home. And I just thought, like, how do you do this? How do you take hours? I mean, this took weeks. And he did this with each person. How do you do that? Do you ever explain where you are at night? I mean, most people in a normal relationship would say, I would know if my husband was gone all hours of the night. That's just strange. Without asking why. So I've always wondered, why me? How me? How did you pick me? How do you select people? They got search warrants for a storage facility. It looks like he was tracking hundreds if not thousands of women over the course of those 30 years. So in my mind there has to be more victims. None have come forward. But like, how did you find time to do any of this? I'm fascinated about, like, logistics. I also am very. I want to meet him to find out what happened to him.
- [18:40]
Luke Kenton
Yeah.
- [18:40]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
I want to know how he became like this. Because he's truly a monster.
- [18:43]
Luke Kenton
Yeah. I was going to say, if you did ever get the chance to sit down across from them, what would be the first thing out of your mouth, do you think?
- [18:50]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah. First of all, I've been advised not to because the California states, a lot of states have programs where you can sit down with inmates and you can, your family of a victim has been murdered can sit down with somebody. And it's a whole process and there's a lot that goes into it. And they do warn about a couple of different people that you shouldn't sit down with. And one of them is our sadists. He's. That sociopath is another one. It's probably both. He has been asked, I've. I have a group working on this for me. And he said absolutely not because he'd have to admit to what he did. But I think I would first ask him, how did you do this? How did you pull this off? Where'd you find the time? And then I would say, how did you find me specifically, where did you see me? I don't, I can't put this together in my mind.
- [19:34]
Luke Kenton
One of the things that really shocked me today, and there's a lot over the course of the hour, but one thing that really, really stood out to me was when you were discussing the moment that you went into the police station to report what happened to you. And the response that you got from the detective sitting across from you, Are you able to just recall for me some of that interaction, how you were treated?
- [19:55]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Yeah, it was really painful. So this is after the initial patrol officers had gotten there. After the initial. There were a couple of detectives I talked to initially, like the next morning, but these weren't the same people. But even at my house when I came back from the hospital and the police tape is there and there's cops everywhere, there was an incident. I won't go into a lot of detail, but there was an incident where a male police officer sort of shunned me a little bit and thought I was being ridiculous. And I could tell right then and that I clocked it and said, okay, I see how this is going to go. But I did not expect what I got. When I went to the police station, they were particularly. The female detective was skeptical from the moment, from the jump. The more I spoke, this, what. This interview went on for hours. You know, they go on for. They. They're questioning everything. And she just got more and more agitated. She was, you know, shifting in her seat. She was scoffing at me. And I kept thinking, this is so odd. Why is she reacting like this? And then finally she just came out with it and said, we. You know, you sound like you've made this up in a movie and you're basically full of shit and you're making this entire thing up. You just speak so confidently and calmly. How have you come to this point? I don't know. I think I was born that way. I don't know. My mom made me that way. I don't know. I've been told I'm really unusual and unique in this way. And I'm just.
- [21:12]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
Me.
- [21:12]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
I don't know. I can't really answer that.
- [21:14]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
I sat down with CrimeCon CEO and founder Kevin Balf. He's responsible for the true crime centered event that was launched in 2017. He says it provides a platform for stakeholders in the criminal justice world to connect and to enlighten others. Balf highlighted the appearance this year by a group of Jeffrey Epstein survivors and was emphatic that the gathering is anything but a celebration of evil.
- [21:37]
Kayla Brantley
I'm most proud of when we can have survivors and family who come into this not knowing what to expect and come out the other side sort of being wowed. And that just happened today. The Epstein survivors won our crime fighter of the Year award. And I think they for the first time felt this huge, just group hug from this community, you know, Just as powerful women. No questions about the politics of it all and the list and all these sorts of things. Just them for who they are and what they went through and suffered. To be in a community of people who understand that. I'm getting goosebumps, right? Like, that makes me feel really good about this event's place in the world.
- [22:17]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
Have you found that people have misconceptions? You know, something like this? Are you glamorizing serial killers? What would you say to those people?
- [22:25]
Kayla Brantley
Yeah, I'd say come, because if you, if, you know, I think yes. And of course, misconceptions, I think a lot easier now after a decade of doing this than it was in the beginning. Always said from the first event that I would not host this event and put my name on it. I'm a visible person and I'm out there. If I felt like this did not live up to my personal values, which are the embodiment of what we just talked about around, you know, being forward looking and victim and survivor focused. And so, you know, I think somebody could throw an event that would be very full of people who want to go and wear costumes of serial killers and talk about crime scenes and stuff. It's just not, it's just not this event. What I've seen is the people who come kind of thinking or hoping it's that don't come back, you know, and so the community itself, based on what the event is sort of, you know, self polices itself, which is great from my perspective.
- [23:17]
Kartisha Morgan
Right.
- [23:17]
Kayla Brantley
Cause we have, we've now set the tone and the attendees themselves have taken this in the direction they want.
- [23:23]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
Yeah. And I spoke to many attendees here and everyone was so kind, so nice, and they were really here, you know, to support victims, to hope that, you know, maybe through this, you know, DNA, more crimes can be solved. I met a woman who just found out who her daughter's killer was after like 40 years and spoke to the Goncalves family. And, you know, they're here for justice and trying to help other people.
- [23:48]
Kayla Brantley
So you've seen the board out there with the flyers on it, right. Of all the missing people in cases that still need justice. It's. There's a lot of work to do. And I think, you know, this group, they know they can't solve them all. But I think if you can keep cases getting attention, and frankly, when you bring this many people together in Las Vegas, the media follows.
- [24:06]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Right?
- [24:06]
Kayla Brantley
I mean, you guys are here, but so is a lot of other media and local media and a lot of These cases just need that. They just need it to be back out there. And if the event does nothing else but put cases and families back into the media spotlight, then the stuff that happens sort of outside of these four walls is going to be, you know, of much more importance than what happens here.
- [24:23]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
We're taking a quick break after this.
- [24:29]
McDonald's FIFA World Cup Announcer
Foreign.
- [24:36]
Pablo Torre
Hey, Pablo Torre here. As a sports journalist, I've covered global sports for many years now and there is one thing that I can promise you. Nothing compares to the World cup. And this time it is even better. Thanks to McDonald's, you have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal. The cups feature some of the biggest legends in football like David Beckham, Carry Henry and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamine Yamal and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary Cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal only at McDonald's at participating McDonald's only for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. Copyright 2026 McDonald's at the FIFA World
- [25:15]
Weight Loss by Hers Advertiser
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- [26:19]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
the event, of course, is also a draw for fans of true crime. There is a major audience in the vast world of crime media, podcasts, documentaries, books, websites and social media. Some true crime consumers are amateur sleuths and others are just intrigued by the window into human behavior that crime stories can offer. We also caught up with Kartisha Morgan, whose daughter and young granddaughter are missing, suspected of involvement in the University of Cosmic Intelligence, an online group that police consider a cult. Farshad Jamal, an influencer in prison for unrelated crimes, has reportedly denied being a cult leader or knowing the people who disappeared. Neither Jamal nor the group have been charged in connection to their disappearance. Kartisha came to CrimeCon to spread the word about her family's search.
- [27:07]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Kartisha. This began around November 2022 when this all started happening.
- [27:13]
Kartisha Morgan
Well, yeah, I found out in March of 23, but I think that they talked to her about moving really quickly, getting her own, so that they eventually came into her space.
- [27:29]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Yeah. And so what was the moment that you first became aware of your daughter's affiliation with this group or this spiritual journey that she was saying she was going to embark on?
- [27:40]
Kartisha Morgan
I believe when I noticed them at the home, which was in March of 23, that I was like, okay, what's going on here? You're letting people. She was not that type of person to just let people, you know, move into her house, especially if her family had not known them, you know. So I kind of started questioning things, then started looking up some names and such like that, and then I got deeper into it.
- [28:13]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And then when you were doing that research, you were searching these names, you were finding out more about. About this group. I mean, what was that like to read about and learn about knowing that your daughter was wrapped up in something like this?
- [28:22]
Kartisha Morgan
My heart just sunk. I just said, I can't believe this. It was just overwhelming, overstimulating. So, yeah, my emotions were all over the place. I did not have control because Mikayla is an adult and the police and the CPS people were stating that she's an adult. So I was limited to what I could do as far as even getting Malaya.
- [28:52]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
So, yeah, when she said to you initially that she was going on a spiritual journey, what did that mean to you? And second to that, was she always interested in maybe more spiritual, cosmic things or was this a new thing for her?
- [29:05]
Kartisha Morgan
So our foundation is Christian, so she was raised up with a Christian background, so she knew about spirituality. I don't know what else she was looking for in that regard. So when I said, okay, because sometimes people want to find themselves spiritually, I get that they want to grow spiritually. Okay, that was fine. But then when she said that she's probably not going to talk to us anymore or that much, I was all like, well, that's weird, Mikayla. So if I. If I call you, what you gonna do? She said, probably not gonna answer the phone. I'm all like, that's weird.
- [29:42]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Yeah.
- [29:43]
Kartisha Morgan
Is she one of four? She is one of five. And she is the fourth child, four for five.
- [29:48]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And your relationship before she started getting involved with this group, how was it, you know, before that? And what changes did you notice afterwards?
- [29:58]
Kartisha Morgan
So we were very cordial. We talked. We had our bumped heads sometimes, but it was not to the depth where we never talked or anything like that. I started seeing her drift away when she moved out of my home, where she had control, where I could not come into her home. So that's when I started noticing the change.
- [30:19]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And George, for you, this group, can you give us a bit of an explanation about what they are and what they believe?
- [30:28]
Investigator (George)
That's interesting. As far as what they are, they're a cult group. As far as what they believe, that's kind of complex because when we go off the journalism, the journal and everything, it sounds like they believe that they were gods themselves and they believed in separating themselves from people at the center of that group.
- [30:59]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Rashad Jamal, is there any indication in the investigation that you've done to this point that he has anything to do with this disappearance?
- [31:09]
Investigator (George)
At this point, we believe that the male subject that was with him is a follower of him and following his teaching. As far as connecting the two, Rashad Jamal, on an interview, had said that he didn't know these people. So that's. That's possible.
- [31:34]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Kazija, when was the last time that you actually remember hearing from your daughter or your granddaughter and what happened during that last interaction?
- [31:43]
Kartisha Morgan
So it was actually two times, maybe three, because we had celebrated her sibling's birthday, where we all went as family. But that was even odd because she was on the phone the whole time and probably doing a teaching of some sort. So I saw her that time, then one time after that, and then the last time when she had the two people that were outside of her home. So March was the last time that I physically saw and spoke with Mikayla.
- [32:20]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And for you, I mean, was there a specific moment where the panic set in and that you thought maybe something was wrong? Not just she's not returning my calls anymore or I can't get hold of her. What was the moment that you suddenly realized that something perhaps bad was happening?
- [32:37]
Kartisha Morgan
My mind just started going all over the place, especially with men being around women and children that, you know, that are not known. So it started going off probably as soon as I saw them. So, yeah.
- [32:54]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And I understand that you contacted police, you asked them to conduct a couple of welfare checks.
- [33:00]
Kartisha Morgan
Yes.
- [33:00]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
You did that? Yes, I didn't find anything wrong.
- [33:03]
Kartisha Morgan
Correct.
- [33:04]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And then when did you physically report them missing? What was like the distance in time
- [33:09]
Kartisha Morgan
the last week of July is when I reported them missing is what I believe. Yeah.
- [33:13]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And then it was, I think I'm right in saying that, you know, they went inside the house, they found a few things and there were things that were found that were indicated that your daughter and granddaughter were perhaps living in without access to basic necessities I think was the wording, I, I am not
- [33:28]
Kartisha Morgan
sure to that I did not have access to the home until the police came. Actually on the day that I called and reported the missing, I could not touch anything or check to see if water stuff. But without her having a job, I don't know how they were maintaining the bill. So that probably would be in question.
- [33:51]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Yeah.
- [33:52]
Kartisha Morgan
To their living conditions.
- [33:53]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Conditions. Yeah. And for you, obviously it's not just your daughter that you have to be worried about. You've also got your granddaughter. All of this, these couple of years that you've spent waiting for the phone to ring, waiting for answers, just how difficult is that to have to live with and to have to shoulder at the moment?
- [34:12]
Kartisha Morgan
It is challenging every single day. I can't put all my focus on it. I'm. I'm grounded in my faith and that's what I think helps me from day to day. But it's very challenging. I go to therapy to help me cope with things. You know, I have to keep myself up so that I can keep trying to bring self awareness, connecting with people that are helping to get the word out. So yeah, I try to take care of myself but it is very, it's a very heavy load.
- [34:43]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Yeah. And like you said, you know, you've done a lot of work with keeping the story alive. Obviously coming here and sharing your story and the situation. What was it like for you to witness that today? To see that crowd of people interested in helping bring more attention to this?
- [34:58]
Kartisha Morgan
I'm at awe. I'm just amazed. I did not know that there were so many people interested and they cared about it. So that brings some joy to my heart to know that people are interested and they're bringing knowledge that I did not know. So it's enlightening me as well.
- [35:17]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Excellent. George, in terms of this investigation, what do we have in terms of a latest update or a lead that you're working? What is the latest in your investigation?
- [35:28]
Investigator (George)
Well, our latest lead was a TikTok account popped up of Jerry Elliot, which is one of the women missing. So we did a little research on that. Unfortunately, so far it hasn't turned up with anything yet.
- [35:44]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And this cult in particular, and we'll call it a cult, the challenge, it seems to be that it doesn't exist anywhere. It's on the Internet. How difficult is that from an investigator's standpoint, to not have a particular place to zero in on to start this investigation?
- [35:59]
Investigator (George)
Well, it's extremely difficult because, I mean, just as vast as the Internet is, is how they move. You know, they could be far. We know they could be here in Vegas at the conference, and we would never know. We have no way to track them.
- [36:15]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
I think I've seen in previous reports that, you know, the suggestion has been that maybe they're in Atlanta or they could be in Mexico or they could be in the Caribbean. What leads you to believe it could be one of those three? Is there anything tying the ground route to those locations?
- [36:28]
Investigator (George)
When you start tracking these groups, these cults, you start to find that, okay, this area is the area that would be most likely that they would hang out in. And then, you know, of course, somewhere like Mexico and the Caribbean is out of the States, which is totally off our grid.
- [36:46]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
In the course of your investigation, as Katisha kind of alluded to a second ago, do you know how their keeping themselves financially afloat, who may be harboring them, how they're supporting this lifestyle that they're leading? Is there any evidence?
- [36:59]
Investigator (George)
You know, so early on, they were selling some of these sticks with the copper on them or selling crystals, oils, and I think it says some territories or whatever, which they were doing that electronically. But since their disappearance, we haven't seen it. Electronic footprint to follow.
- [37:22]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
When you look back to that crucial period between that November and that March, is there anything, any sort of red flag or warning sign that you have recognized retroactively that, you know, sticks with you?
- [37:37]
Kartisha Morgan
Now, her change in appearance, not drastically, but she wasn't into weaves and makeup. She was more natural, twisting her hair, adding little beads to it. Now that I look back at that, that's basically all that I can see. And then just trying to see what others, mainly, like, her family. How did they look at her? Like, what do you think about me? Tell me, you know, your perspective of myself. And we all kind of thought like that was. We were like, no, we're not doing it. I don't know. But we just said we. Not answering that question. But, yeah, now that I look back at it, the gifts that she had given me the year previous to her moving out was something different that I wouldn't have expected. Not that I'm not grateful for whatever that she gave, but it was just not typical. Couple of T shirts, positive energy, happy days or something of that nature. I think she gave me some crystals. I'm not into crystals and I don't judge anybody who used them, but I'm just not into it. So yeah. Now looking back on that. Yes. Oh and sitting out in the sun,
- [39:03]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
the sun worship stuff.
- [39:05]
Kartisha Morgan
Well, she would just go sit out on the yard and just sit there in the sun.
- [39:11]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
Just for how long she took.
- [39:14]
Kartisha Morgan
I was at work and so I think my daughter probably took a picture of her doing it and sent it to me. So I don't know how long in particular that she would do that.
- [39:26]
Interviewer (CrimeCon Host)
And finally, I mean if for any reason your daughter is able to see this article or see this video that we're shooting now, what would your message to her be? And also what would your message to your granddaughter?
- [39:38]
Kartisha Morgan
That we love you, we pray that you're safe and we want you to come home. Please contact us. I can give my number information or you can contact the website that is posting this information. We are here for you.
- [39:54]
Reporter (Crime Desk Journalist)
So that's it for today. We'll be back with a new episode next Wednesday. The Trial USA is part of the Crime Desk. Subscribers can listen ad free, get early access to new shows, full access to the archive and the member only podcast the trial plus visit thecrimedesk.com to find out more. A link is in the show Notes. Follow us on TikTok at the Crime Desk and on Instagram hetrialpod. Leave a comment on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or send us a voice note on WhatsApp 447-796-57512. Start your message with the word Trial.
- [40:40]
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Kayla Brantley
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