Marjorie Hernandez (4:45)

We work with defendants, their families, attorneys that are going through the federal criminal system. Overwhelmingly, the majority of our clients, probably 98%, are white collar offenders, offenders that commit financial crimes, nonviolent crimes, those that are typically professionals, politicians that run afoul of various federal statutes and find themselves in the clutches of the Department of Justice.

Sam Mangle (5:13)

Now, how did you get into the consulting business?

Marjorie Hernandez (5:16)

In 2016? I received a knock on my door. 17 men and women dressed in blue flak jackets with FBI stencil on the back arrested me. I had no idea why. I had been retired for a number of years. In the car ride up, I learned that I was being charged with a wire fraud from a prior company I was involved with. 2018, I went to sentencing. I was assured by my attorney that I was getting one year of home confinement and then some supervised release. The judges looked down at me and said, Mr. Mango, you are no different than any vagrant on the street. You are actually worse. You clearly show no contrition, no remorse. You haven't identified with your victims, and therefore, I'm giving you a sentence of custody of 60 months. Now, I've never been in trouble in my life, and. And I thought he said six months. I looked down at my attorney who scribbled 60 on a piece of paper, and the only thing that go through my mind, other than I was going to get sick on the table in front of me, was I was going to be away from my family for four years and two months. 85% of your sentence. The judge then remanded me to custody, highly unusual for white collar offenders. And I began my sentence in the Philadelphia Detention center, almost a sister image of the Brooklyn Detention Center. I spent six weeks there, and it was certainly quite scary in the beginning. It was someplace that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies. After about six weeks, I had been transferred to the camp in Miami. I was out in 21 months. So I learned how to work within the system and navigate a system which really is not meant to be navigated. The other thing I learned is that there were people there that had advice from other people than their attorney prior to sentencing that got much better sentences and much better outcomes. And I learned that there was a whole field of people called prison consultants.

Sam Mangle (7:22)

So that's where you first learned about this job or this career path. Wow.

Marjorie Hernandez (7:27)

Yes.

Sam Mangle (7:28)

So. So being the fact that you had. You were incarcerated, you knew what it was like being in there, you think that gives you better insight as to what federal prisoners are going through?

Marjorie Hernandez (7:40)

Not only did I learn what it was like to be in a camp where I was in Miami, that's when I learned that, you know, there are things that can be done that no one could advise me of, did advise me of that could help me get home sooner. Now, I tell my clients and prospective clients that if we work together and you follow the protocol and the rules and do what's necessary, on average, my clients spend about 30% of their sentence in custody. I learned that proper preparation prior to sentencing, knowing the environment you're going into and once you're there, knowing what programs to take, how to qualify for them, and ultimately how to prepare for your release, knowing that you're dealing with a system that has a rule book, and it's the same rulebook that I had to follow that El chapo, who's in AdMax, has to follow. It's one book for everyone. And it's not the Bureau of Prison's culture or job to help me or rehabilitate me to get out sooner. It's there to house me and feed me three meals A day. And if I wasn't proactive and doing what I had to do, they were more than happy to let me sleep there for four years and two months.

Sam Mangle (8:54)

So folks who have been found guilty and are going to be sentenced seek out your help to help them navigate through the system and find essentially how to survive the system.

Marjorie Hernandez (9:05)

Actually, I do a lot of work with attorneys, but people that are just charged well before the plea or if they go to trial, most people do accept the plea.

Sam Mangle (9:14)

Oh, so they hire you from the very beginning?

Marjorie Hernandez (9:17)

Ideally from the very beginning. I occasionally, not often, thank God, receive phone calls the night before someone's scheduled to surrender and there's only so much I can do in 24 hours. Yeah, it's difficult. I believe in being very hands on. This is not a transactional business. This is about picking and choosing your clients so that you can give them the attention that they need and in many cases are not getting from their attorneys. Because attorneys, typically their job is to get you to sentencing and it ends there.

Sam Mangle (9:50)

Right.

Marjorie Hernandez (9:50)

Mine goes for what could be years after.

Sam Mangle (9:53)

But the fact that you also have been into prisons, you were in the system and you mentioned that the jail where did he is now is very similar to one of the lockups where you were at. Right now he's in Brooklyn, NBC Metropolitan Detention center, which is notorious for having really awful conditions. There have been prisoners who have died there. Can you give me an insight into what someone like Diddy is facing at a place like that?

Marjorie Hernandez (10:22)

Well, on Friday there was a major race riot at Brooklyn D.C. 45 people were injured. I'm told at least one casualty. Numerous people have been taken to the hospital. The detention center is on lockdown for at least one month. They're not allowing any visits other than legal visits and even those are being strained. The only time an inmate can come out of their cell. So Diddy, as well as everyone else in that facility, they are locked in their cell 24 hours a day.

Sam Mangle (10:53)

Normally they're allowed what, an hour or so?

Marjorie Hernandez (10:56)

No, no, he's on what I call general population floor, even though I think it's 4W. It's a single tiered floor. I was on a single tier floor that are usually used for more high profile inmates. He's on the same floor, Sam Bankman Fried. I have a client that is a foreign national that's on that floor. I think he's one or two cells over from Sean Combs.

Sam Mangle (11:18)

Really?

Marjorie Hernandez (11:19)

So typically you're allowed out from six in the morning until nine o' clock at night. Other Than what? When they do counts, when you have to go back in your cell, they lock you in, they do a standing count and. And then you're allowed back out. So he's allowed out from usually six in the morning until nine o' clock at night.

Sam Mangle (11:36)

So someone like Diddy, who's obviously very well known and we've had sources who have said, you know, he, he might have a target on his back just because of his high profile. He's actually in general population.

Marjorie Hernandez (11:49)

So let me explain. General population is a, is a loose term for you're not in protective custody. So either you're in protective custody, the shoe special housing unit.

Sam Mangle (11:59)

Right.

Marjorie Hernandez (11:59)

Or you're in general population. In his case, he's on it, I believe it's 4W. So it's a single tiered floor that has 18 men or 18 cells on the floor. Most of the cells are single man cells, some are double man cells, but it is for high profile individuals. Luis Mangioni, I believe, the Alexander brothers, people that are very high profile and prone to, to extortion, prone to violence against them. The facility can't afford to have a high profile, certainly any inmate, but in this case a high profile inmate get injured from another inmate. And because the MDC is a dangerous place, obviously, look what happened last Friday, they really can't adequately protect somebody like him unless he's on a segregated floor. So yes, they are in general population, but on a safer floor.

Sam Mangle (12:57)

Right. And obviously he is alone in his.

Marjorie Hernandez (12:59)

Cell and he's locked down now at least 23 out of 24. I'm sure they allow him out, you know, at least three times a week for a shower, maybe to make a phone call, but that's about it. So he's being fed in his cell. It's a six by nine cell. The little slap for a window. He's being fed in his cell. If he wants to exercise, it's in a cell. He can read in the cell. There are no TVs and that's where he is and will be for the next month. Other than legal visits, I know my client as well as other clients. I work closely with another consultant that is actually a Mangione's consultant. They're clamoring for legal visits because it's the only time that they can get out of their cells to see people, interact with people.

Sam Mangle (13:39)

So during the lockdown, are they even able to see family members and get visits?

Marjorie Hernandez (13:45)

No social visits. The only visits permitted during this lockdown are, are legal visits.

Sam Mangle (13:51)

Wow. How did that start up this riot that happened last Friday, you can actually.

Marjorie Hernandez (13:56)

Go onto the website and see that all visits are suspended. It is on lockdown. When I did some more inquiry and I spoke to one of the executive assistants at the facility, they went into some form of detail, as much as they could as to what the situation was.

Sam Mangle (14:13)

So when you have high profile individuals like Diddy and Sam Bankman Fried and Luigi Mangione, are, are there extra steps taken to, I don't know, separate them or protect them in any way? Because you know, when you hear riot that rings some bells and some concerns.

Marjorie Hernandez (14:31)

They'Re not on a floor that would be susceptible to the riots again, they're on a floor with other high profile individuals.

Sam Mangle (14:39)

Right.

Marjorie Hernandez (14:40)

That the last thing they want to do is is get involved in the ride. So they're on a truly segregated floor from everybody else. Now they are punished the same as everyone else in the facility. Well, fortunately, while they might be safer, they will suffer the same consequences as everyone in that facility, which is the.

Sam Mangle (14:59)

Lockdown, that they're not going to be able to have visits.

Marjorie Hernandez (15:02)

No television. I mean if they have a radio, they could probably listen to the radio and to the televisions that are being played on the unit, but they can't see it. They still get mail, but that's about it.

Sam Mangle (15:15)

When you hear something like that, what do you tell your clients in terms of helping themselves get through something like that?

Marjorie Hernandez (15:23)

So I can say from firsthand experience, on my second morning at the Philadelphia Detention Center, I remember I just gotten out of the shower and all of a sudden out of the side of my eye, I saw one gentleman rush another gentleman in the shower next to me and stabbed him with a shank, something sharp. And as soon as that person was stabbed out of nowhere, my cellmate grabbed me and pulled me back into the cell. And his advice, which is something that I would give anyone going in that situation is get back to your cell, stay out of it. Keep in mind that most of my clients will never see that they self surrender to the prison camp. There is no violence in a prison camp. You can't be convicted of a violent offense if you're in a prison camp. Now, in the examples of Sean Combs or Mangioni, anyone else that I'm aware of on that floor, my advice would be if you are found guilty, you need to get to a United States penitentiary. That's the highest level facility. That's where they will go that you will be able to live. Not live well, not live successfully, but live. If that's the best you can offer someone and their family that they will be able to live and not get hurt or die, really kind of put that in context as far as what. What any potential upside is.

Sam Mangle (16:49)

So, of course, Diddy is still considered innocent. And to improve in guilty, he has not gone to trial yet, which for right now is scheduled for May 5th. So he a long way to go to see what happens. But I find it interesting that a lot of these defense teams actually bring someone in like you from the very beginning to kind of map out what could happen in, I guess, what could be a worst case scenario for them.

Marjorie Hernandez (17:14)

A lot of my. The attorneys I work with bring me in almost as a therapist. They get very frustrated dealing with the defendant, because to a defendant, regardless of the charge, as a defendant, we bury our heads in the stand. We are the epitome of a stork, and we are in denial. You know, the five stages of grief. We are in denial. And defendants overwhelmingly are in denial until the judge renders a sentence if found guilty or they plead guilty. And it doesn't really sink in to most people until the judge bangs that gavel and his sentence of a period of time in the custody of, of the Bureau of Prisons is red. Prior to that, there's a lot of wishful thinking and hopeful thinking and optimism that I think most intelligent defendants will have. Their attorneys will get them out of this. God will get them out of this. They will get themselves out of it. President Trump will get them out of it. There's a lot of wishful thinking. Until that judge reads those words, you are remanded to the custody of the Bureau of Prisons. My job is to prepare them. As someone who's been through it, it's easier for me to explain it to them.

Sam Mangle (18:29)

That makes sense when obviously, especially somebody who has never had any experience of being arrested or facing federal charges, that's huge. Do you also get involved with their family?

Marjorie Hernandez (18:42)

I would say probably 40% of my work is with families. It is not uncommon at all for a family member to call. Okay. So my client, who's in Brooklyn on Sunday, I received a call from his family. Haven't heard from my husband in two days. He calls me normally twice a day. I'm very worried what's going on. And that's when I realized that there's a lockdown. So that's when I called the facility.

Sam Mangle (19:07)

So somebody like you who has insider knowledge and can more easily access those folks, so you get. You kind of serve as a conduit to the family to Let them know, hey, this is what went down.

Marjorie Hernandez (19:20)

Yes. I always know who to call at each facility in order to find out what's going on. Now, if the person goes to the hospital due to hipaa, they're not going to disclose confidential information, but they can say, listen, he was taken to the hospital, he'll be okay. At least I can share that with the spouse or a loved one. The Bureau of Prisons is a black hole. Once you're in it, there is no information that comes out unless you know how to get it out or navigate that system.

Sam Mangle (19:49)

We have so much more coming up, but for now, let's pause for a break. Welcome back. And we're still here with federal prison consultant Sam Mangle. So your client, he actually is in the same area as where Diddy's house and where Mangione's house?

Marjorie Hernandez (20:23)

I believe he's two cells over.

Sam Mangle (20:25)

Two cells over. Wow. Has he even interacted with Diddy or spoken to him or seen him?

Marjorie Hernandez (20:30)

Yes. So I've had a number of clients, three clients that have been on that floor at one time or another. I also had a number of January 6 clients that were in the facility, although not on that floor. And they all told me that, you know, he is a very interesting fellow. He was calm. He's taking it as well as can be expected. You know, nothing that that one would not expect from somebody that's used to the ultimate amount of freedom, luxury, being totally unencumbered to now, being told when to go to bed, when to get up, when to shower, when to use a phone, when to use a computer, when to eat, when to stand by your bed and be counted. So it is a deeply demoralizing effect when you're in there. But I'm told that all the guys on that floor are friendly. They get along. They play board games, chess, checkers, backgammon with each other, they watch TV together, they're very cordial towards each other. Because when you're in prison, you're the same as the guy next to you, regardless of your wealth or public stature. You all get $360 a month to spend the commissary. You all get the same outfit to wear. You all get the same set of headphones, you get the same meals, same visiting privileges. So whether you're a billionaire or you're a vagrant on the street that's arrested, you all get the same thing. You're a number. You are an 8 digit number. When the guy comes around and counts you and asks you to identify yourself, you don't identify yourself as Sean Combs. You identify yourself as your 8 digit BOP number.

Sam Mangle (22:18)

It's interesting that you brought out that inmates and that floor. We might be playing checkers or watch TV together. I can't fathom Diddy having a sit down and playing checkers with another individual in jail. Is that the kind of interaction that he would be having or is he mostly in his cell?

Marjorie Hernandez (22:36)

No, as far as I know. And the last time I spoke with anyone, his name came up. He sat in the general population floor. They played, you know, spades, the card game. It was around holiday time, so I believe he was as depressed as any other guy that was there that couldn't be with their family because obviously you have restricted visits and how long you can be with someone and how many visitors can come in. So it is a depressing time. But he was friendly and congenial as everyone else on that floor. I'm sure he laughed at times. Yeah, it's not a funny situation to be in. But they all look around and say in their opinions what a mockery of justice it is that they are here. You know, they're all still pre sentence, pre trial, so there's a lot of optimism still that they can hold.

Sam Mangle (23:26)

So again, so that was around the holidays, Christmas time, when a client of yours had that interaction with Diddy?

Marjorie Hernandez (23:33)

Yes, yes.

Sam Mangle (23:34)

Wow.

Marjorie Hernandez (23:34)

I mean, I'm sure he's interacting with him, but I haven't, I haven't asked that recently.

Sam Mangle (23:38)

Wow, that's interesting. Just him still having that interaction with other people. And like you said, it's kind of being in prison. It's kind of like the equalizer, right?

Marjorie Hernandez (23:47)

The great equalizer.

Sam Mangle (23:48)

The great equalizer. But he's out there playing cards with, with his fellow inmates, I guess at this point. I'm also curious that, you know, there is obviously the concern that he could be a target because of who he is. And given the charges he's facing. If you were his consultant, is that something that you would warn him about or what would you say to him in terms of protecting himself? Himself?

Marjorie Hernandez (24:13)

So you're talking about physically. Physically a target. Yeah, where he currently is. He's not a target. Where he currently is. He's safe and that's why he is where he is. If I were consulting him, should he be found guilty, I would, you know, be working with his legal team to get him to the best facility based upon his sentence. Remember, because of his charges, which are very serious charges, he stands to serve upwards of 40 years to life in prison in that Situation, they will only send him to a high security or United States penitentiary. It is bad there. That's the worst of the worst.

Sam Mangle (24:53)

And it could be any penitentiary in the country.

Marjorie Hernandez (24:56)

So normally what's called under the First Step act, they try to put somebody within 500 miles of their family, that ideal. In his situation I would say that should not be a overwhelming concern that they need to get him to the safest facility. So my, my comment would be okay, let's get him to like a Tucson USP or somewhere that again he will have the opportunity to live his life, have visits with his family, but be safe. Not pleasant, but safe.

Sam Mangle (25:31)

Wow. I mean what you do is very interesting. The fact that you're kind of starting from the beginning when you have somebody like a big name like Diddy. What would you suggest to him in preparing for the trial?

Marjorie Hernandez (25:43)

He has to go in there very solid, very respectful of the jury, let his attorney, you know, Mark Agniflo is an amazing attorney, let his attorney handle the jury properly and you know, through the voir dire process figure out who's the best person to hear that case. Unfortunately, 98% of all federal charges, whether through a plea or through a trial, do lead to a conviction. So overwhelmingly the odds are stacked against him. I've only had out of the hundreds and hundreds of people I've helped, only one client, a doctor in Pennsylvania went to trial and won. So it is an anomaly to actually win preparing him. There's only so much that a consultant can do with serious charges like that. It's why I said most of my clients are white collar offenders. Where I would really come in and be helpful is if he is found guilty again, preparing him and his family for what's next. Because a USP is dramatically different than a detention center. And the strategies to get him the most amount of freedom as quickly as possible is something that I would want to work with him on. But first and foremost, if sound guilty, where to get him to a place that he's safe, that his family knows he's safe so that he can then institute whatever we we strategies we, we can put into place for him given those circumstances.

Sam Mangle (27:16)

Like you said, he's still considered innocent until proven guilty. And we have a long way to go until he goes to trial. So we'll see how that shakes out. So Sam, you mentioned that if found guilty did he would go to a US penitentiary somewhere in the country, but normally it would be somewhere near his family. But can you explain what the difference is between where he is now? At in the Brooklyn facility versus a US Penitentiary where he could end up.

Marjorie Hernandez (27:49)

Sure. So I would actually recommend that if he is found guilty and depending upon the length of his sentence and what he's found guilty of, that he would go to a USP United States Penitentiary, which is the highest level security facility other than AdMax in Florence, Colorado, probably in Tucson, Arizona. The reason I say that is that's where somebody has a life sentence that's convicted of a sex crime, can serve safely. So where Sean Combs currently is, is a segregated protected floor of 18 men. Now might not be full, but can hold 18 people. High profile, very safe. If he's found guilty and if he is transferred to a high security penitentiary, it is at that point that he could be in a, in a prison with 40 foot walls and gun towers and individual cells on a block that might hold 400 men. And he's truly in a general population environment where when they are allowed outside, he's on a closed yard with potentially 1,000 men under heavy guard security with controlled movement, which means they can only move around the facility in one direction at 10 minutes before the hour for 10 minutes. And it is subject to substantial violence. Because in a high security facility you will see the worst of the worst. People that have nothing to lose by catching another charge, gang members, it's very common to see that. So the goal would be to get him to the safest of the high security facilities which in my opinion currently is USP Tucson where they have a sexual offender yard that is a protected yard. He would be amongst other sexual offenders that have lengthy sentences, but that for whatever reason might need a higher level of protection for themselves. And even if somebody like Luis Mangioni was, was convicted and found guilty and sentenced to a long period of time in the federal system and it's not a sexual charge, I would still recommend going to a place like that because as of today that is the safest of the United States penitentiaries in the system.

Sam Mangle (30:06)

Why is it considered the safest?

Marjorie Hernandez (30:09)

Because of the population. So if you think about the population, a higher propensity or population of sexual offenders, they don't put gang members there or maybe they'll put gang dropouts there. So they really do their best to filter the population that goes in there. So it is certainly not a four seasons by any means in terms of the, you know, prison system, but it is the safest place where he will be able to survive and live. That's it. Other than that it is identical to every other high security Facility.

Sam Mangle (30:46)

So ultimately a judge would decide again, if he is found guilty, he hasn't been. Ultimately decide where he would go.

Marjorie Hernandez (30:56)

No, no.

Sam Mangle (30:57)

Oh, it's not.

Marjorie Hernandez (30:58)

A judge can only make a recommendation. So again, when I work with my clients, we do a lot of work with our clients to figure out what's the best facility for them prior to sentencing. Then at sentencing, we have certain asks of the judge which are strictly recommendations. And then once we get that, we, my firm works with the Bureau of Prisons to get him to that facility.

Sam Mangle (31:22)

Oh, okay, gotcha. So obviously the judge hands out the sentence and then you guys then come in and say, this is where we would want to place him. Who decides where he goes?

Marjorie Hernandez (31:32)

So we asked for a judicial recommendation. Judicial recommendations are followed about 74% of the time, but it's no guarantee it's strictly a recommendation. We then take the judicial recommendation, the judgment, and work with counsel and the Bureau of Prisons to get him there.

Sam Mangle (31:51)

So it's a Bureau of Prisons. Gotcha. Oh, yes, that's interesting. So for right now, Tucson is the best place as far as you know. Wow, that's very far away from New York.

Marjorie Hernandez (32:01)

It is. But at least his family can come visit him as opposed to going someplace like Canaan USP in Pennsylvania that might be closer to him. But if you only survive a few weeks or a few months, wow. You know, there's a big picture here. And if found guilty and the worst comes to the worst, you still want to be able to survive and see your children grow up when they come and visit and be able to communicate with them.

Sam Mangle (32:28)

Very fascinating stuff. I've learned a lot from Sam today. It's very fascinating. I find it interesting that a lot of people like you are part of the legal team. Right. Kind of help navigate worst case scenario, I guess.

Marjorie Hernandez (32:40)

Well, a good legal team will always bring in a good consultant. I find that many lawyers do not know about us, or a lot of them have what we call God complex and think they can handle it all. The best attorneys know their limitations and know when to bring in other members of the team. Forensic psychologists, doctors, consultants.

Sam Mangle (33:02)

Do you know if Diddy has a prison consultant like you?

Marjorie Hernandez (33:05)

As of now, it's my understanding he does not.

Sam Mangle (33:08)

Would you suggest that he get one?

Marjorie Hernandez (33:10)

I would. I strongly would. However, there again, there are certain defendants that put their head in the sand and are convinced that they're going to beat the charge. And in their own mind. Sometimes the notion of hiring a prison consultant is self defeating. Like, okay, I resign myself to go to prison and if I don't hire a prison consultant, then maybe I won't go to prison. I don't know why that logic exists, but but I've seen that so the.

Sam Mangle (33:38)

Best defense is to prepare yourself for any scenario.

Marjorie Hernandez (33:41)

The best defense is a good offense. But I always tell my clients, imagine you're the conductor of the train. You drive the train. Everybody else works for you and will follow your instructions. The more knowledge you have about what's in front of you, what obstacles are in front of you will make it a better ride or a more navigable ride. Can't guarantee the outcome by any means, but the more information that you and your team have available to you, the better the decisions that you can make are and at most of these junctures, a descendant only gets one bite at the apple. And if they screw up that bite, they have a much greater hurdle down the road.

Sam Mangle (34:22)

So for now, that's it. Thanks again to this week's guest, Sam Mangle. Great to have him on the podcast. And as we prepare for Diddy's trial in May or whenever that might actually be, what other trials would you like for us to cover? Let us know by email thetrialailymail.com or you can WhatsApp us on 447-7966-57512 and start your message with and as ever, thank you for listening. Please share all your comments, suggestions and thoughts on the Trial of Diddy on Apple or Spotify and follow us on TikTok@DailyMailCrime. Do follow the Trial of Diddy as we will be here each week with fresh information, new insights and some expert guests. Goodbye.