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- [00:02]
Nancy Grace
Seriously popular.
- [00:04]
Kayla Brantley
The following episode explores a number of allegations regarding the artist Diddy. He denies all charges and has pled not guilty to sex trafficking, racketeering, and transportation to engage in prostitution.
- [00:17]
Nancy Grace
The biggest secret in the entertainment industry that really wasn't a secret at all has finally been revealed to the world.
- [00:26]
Marjorie Hernandez
At the height of his career, Sean Diddy Combs had it all. It seemed like everything Diddy touched turned to gold. Now the once untouchable hip hop mogul is fighting for his life as he faces multiple federal charges in New York, including sex trafficking and allegedly running a criminal enterprise.
- [00:46]
Sean Diddy Combs
Music mogul and rapper Sean Diddy Combs has faced four different lawsuits in recent weeks alleging sexual assault.
- [00:52]
Nancy Grace
Combs can be seen grabbing Ventura and throwing her to the ground. Oh, this guy is dangerous.
- [00:58]
Marjorie Hernandez
Woman has now come forward.
- [01:00]
Nancy Grace
A legend comes of sexual assault.
- [01:02]
Kayla Brantley
She was drugged and sexually assaulted by Combs.
- [01:05]
Marjorie Hernandez
I'm DailyMail.com journalist Marjorie Hernandez, and over the last six months, I've been investigating this incredible story and speaking to the people in the eye of the storm. Welcome to the trial of Diddy.
- [01:24]
Kayla Brantley
Hey, I'm Kayla Brantley, reporter at large for Daily Mail in Manhattan.
- [01:28]
Marjorie Hernandez
And I'm Marjorie Hernandez, DailyMail.com's West coast news editor.
- [01:32]
Kayla Brantley
And welcome to episode 32 of the trial of Diddy. It was a quiet week, maybe, Marjorie. No, I mean, I feel like there are no quiet weeks. But after eight months doing this podcast, doing this show and of Diddy being behind bars, you know, I think we could all use a quiet week.
- [01:52]
Marjorie Hernandez
We certainly could, Kayla. But for this week, Diddy's legal team actually added a new member, Atlanta based attorney Brian Steele, who has previously represented Young Thug. Steele submitted paperwork with the United States District Court in the Southern District of New York on Tuesday indicating his intent to appear as counsel for Diddy when the trial properly kicks off in just 26 days. He's actually a very interesting attorney. Brian Steele is a seasoned criminal defense attorney, but he's again based in Atlanta, Georgia, which is why he actually filed a request to be able to practice in New York to do join Diddy's team. And as we mentioned earlier, he's best known for representing Young Thug in his own racketeering case, which actually was the longest in Georgia's history, I believe. What's interesting again about him, he's really known as being very aggressive and tough in court, and he really stands his ground. At least that's what a lot of the other attorneys who I spoke to have said. He was even actually held in contempt in court during that trial because he refused to disclose how he learned about a private meeting, meeting between a judge, the prosecutors and a key witness in that case. So that actually was later reverted, that contempt ruling against Steele, which was ruled by the Georgia Supreme Court. And so he was able to go on with the case. But TMZ actually also reported that Diddy's legal team was looking to add a black attorney after Anthony Rico left the case. So it was kind of a surprise that Brian Steele's name came up.
- [03:33]
Kayla Brantley
Yeah. And Diddy, he actually did appear in court on Monday to enter his plea of not guilty to an additional charge of sex trafficking and another charge of transportation to engage in prostitution before U.S. district Judge Aaron Sabermanian in Manhattan. And it's important to reiterate, as we do every week, and we make our lawyers very happy here at Daily Mail, that Diddy has always denied each and every allegation made in all recent lawsuits filed against him. And he has, has also denied all the federal charges that have been filed against him. Like everyone else in the legal system, he remains innocent until such time as he's been proven guilty.
- [04:10]
Marjorie Hernandez
And that hearing you mention there also featured Combs's lawyers suggesting that they may require a two week adjournment for his trial if they don't receive what they described as critical evidence from prosecutors. One of Combs's attorney, Tenny Garrigo, said the defense hasn't received some 200,000 emails between Diddy and one of the alleged victims. Now, here's a question for you, Kayla. Do you know how many emails two people would need to write every single day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year, for, say, 15 years to create that many emails? 200,000. You want to take a guess?
- [04:46]
Kayla Brantley
I chose journalism as a major specifically, so I didn't have to do math. So, no, I would not want to take a guess.
- [04:57]
Marjorie Hernandez
So using my calculator came up with 36. And that means 18 emails a day each, every single day for 15 years.
- [05:06]
Sean Diddy Combs
Wow.
- [05:06]
Marjorie Hernandez
That's incredible. So that's something to ponder there. So, anyway, Assistant U.S. attorney Chrissy Slavic said prosecutors opposed any delay and went on to accuse Combs's lawyers of using, quote, gamesmanship to delay the trial. Judge Subramanian, a man with a good turn of phrase, told the defense, saying, quote, we are on a freight train speeding towards trial. If you want an adjournment, you need to make that application within the next 48 hours.
- [05:32]
Kayla Brantley
And as we understand it, both sides will be back in court for another hearing. On Friday, April 18, which is when everyone will be listening to this episode when it comes out. Although we are recording this on Wednesday, two days before that. But Marjorie, I'm not sure if you saw this story. It was actually the New York Times that Diddy has been trading canned mackerel. Mackerel, $1. Canned tinned fish from the commissary.
- [06:00]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Kayla Brantley
Which I thought was an interesting line there.
- [06:04]
Marjorie Hernandez
It is one way inmates make their living or stay alive. There is they trade and barter goods that they get from commissary.
- [06:14]
Sean Diddy Combs
Exactly.
- [06:14]
Kayla Brantley
From going to like eating caviar and filet mignon to now trading mackerel. It was, you know, just the stark reality of. Of prison and really his fall from grace.
- [06:26]
Marjorie Hernandez
Yeah.
- [06:26]
Kayla Brantley
But with all that being said, earlier this week, I caught up with legal commentator, trial lawyer, and host of crime stories, the amazing Nancy Grace, to find out how she views this case. And here we are together. Take a listen.
- [06:41]
Sean Diddy Combs
I want to welcome Nancy Grace to the podcast. Multi hyphenated attorney, TV host, crime expert. Thank you for being here, Nancy.
- [06:52]
Nancy Grace
Thank you for inviting me.
- [06:53]
Sean Diddy Combs
This is very special because usually I'm.
- [06:55]
Kayla Brantley
A guest on your show.
- [06:56]
Sean Diddy Combs
So, so happy to have you on the trial of Diddy. It feels like we've been talking about this forever. I mean, he Diddy got arrested back in the fall. We're finally about three weeks away from trial. What are your predictions from now until the start of the trial?
- [07:13]
Nancy Grace
Okay, number one, thank you for inviting me. And number two, like any other felony prosecution, the longer you wait, the more evidence you get, the more victims come forward, the more details you learn. I have learned that whenever I would talk to victims multiple times or witnesses, their stories wouldn't necessarily change. But depending on the question that I asked them, I might hear additional facts. And whenever I hear witnesses or victims expound or embellish, I don't blame that on the victim or witness. I blame that on the questioner. They obviously did not exhaust all their questions or didn't ask the right questions at the get go. So the longer this goes on, the better in my mind it is for the state. And that's usually the reverse. Typically, a defense attorney's best friend is delay, delay and delay. Witnesses get lost, witnesses die, witnesses move, their recollections dim. I've had example. This is a good one. A murder, an attempted murder went down by two convicted felons when I was in law school. First year of law school. When I got out of law school, I clerked for a judge. Then I went with the antitrust division at the ftc. And then I finally made my way to the district attorney's office in inner city Atlanta. I started trying cases. Then I got called on the loudspeaker. The da, who was like a grandfather to me, goes, nancy. I ran down the stairs in high heels. I got there, he said, we need to retry this case. I'm like, okay, I'm in. It was the case that had been reversed. It was tried 12 years before, and it had gone all the way up to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. And when I retried it, do you know that witnesses were dead? I couldn't find witnesses. And I went to the evidence room to get the evidence. The evidence room had been moved in between. All that was left was an X ray. I didn't even know what it was or who it belonged to. And a hat, a baseball hat that said kiss my bass. I'm like, you're kidding. My point is, delay is usually the best friend of the defense. But here, you know, first Cassie Ventura came out, and once she came out, the floodgates were open. What do I think is going to happen? I think there will be a delay. I know that may be anticlimactic and you expected me to say something else, but in a case of this magnitude, with high profile lawyers and a high profile defendant, I don't think there's any way that this case is going to go forward on schedule. Now, by chance, it does go forward. We're going to see a void, Dyer. Jury selection, coincidentally, means to speak the truth. We're going to see a void, Dyer. Go on for weeks.
- [10:11]
Sean Diddy Combs
Well, right now it's scheduled for just one week. Just one week for jury selection. We're supposed to start the following. And you think that they're gonna.
- [10:19]
Nancy Grace
Yeah.
- [10:21]
Sean Diddy Combs
I mean, because when you think about it, who doesn't know about this case? Who doesn't have an opinion on this case? I personally feel like, hold on, little.
- [10:30]
Nancy Grace
Girl, that's not the standard. Who hasn't heard of the case?
- [10:35]
Sean Diddy Combs
Well, I know, but who hasn't formed an opinion?
- [10:37]
Nancy Grace
Regardless of what you have heard, can you render a verdict that speaks the truth and take your evidence from the witness stand? Not what you may have read in Daily Mail or seen on crime stories. They have to be able to commit under oath that they will get their evidence from the stand. And I would not be surprised if there's not a sequestration. Jury sequestration. I mean, I don't like jury sequestration because it makes a jury angry. I would be furious.
- [11:12]
Sean Diddy Combs
Can you trust a jury to not go on their phone and look at social media and not talk about this with yours?
- [11:21]
Nancy Grace
Promise under oath they will not. You have to trust them. You really don't have a choice. But I'm telling you, jurors, if somebody told me that I couldn't come home to be with my children for a month, yeah, that's not going to happen. It's just not. I would try not to perjure myself, but no. Now has it happened? Yeah, it's happened. Where they have read articles or even worse, gone and done their own investigation, go to the scene. Just all sorts of things jurors do and usually nobody ever finds out about it.
- [11:57]
Sean Diddy Combs
Yeah. This reminds me of the Ghislaine Maxwell case of the juror who said he's never experienced any type of, you know, sexual harassment or anything like that. Come to find out he forgot that he was a victim of sexual abuse and that nearly derailed the entire case.
- [12:14]
Nancy Grace
Sometimes they think things like, yes, I was a victim of sex abuse when I was. This is a hypothetical when I was 10. But that wasn't a sex harassment case. I mean, in their minds, see, that was the wrong question. Were you a victim of sexual harassment? They may have been thinking, eeo, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. I mean, who knows what they were thinking? But that doesn't mean that the juror was lying. You never know what the witness, the victim, the juror in your case is thinking. But I would not impugn perjury upon them outright until I understand why they say what they said. So, see, here we are. We've already talked about this one thing for what, five minutes? Can you imagine having a jury pool of 200 jurors and you have to cull through that? I mean, woo.
- [13:03]
Sean Diddy Combs
I mean, yeah, we're all looking forward to getting our hands on that questionnaire and seeing what's gonna be on there. I think it's supposed to be released any day now, which is very, you know, we're all looking forward to seeing that. But let's talk about the witnesses. We know that Cassie Ventura is supposed to be there. A lot of Jane does, you know, there's some people who have been named. Do you think there'll be any surprise celebrity appearances?
- [13:32]
Nancy Grace
I don't know that the state needs a celebrity. A celebrity on behalf of the state. I would say no. There's been a lot alleged that this celeb was there and that celeb was there. We've seen pictures of celebs at the so called white parties where everybody had to wear white. I doubt you're gonna find a celeb, get up on the stand and go, oh, yeah, I was there when he was raping those women. I just never said anything. See, I don't think that's going to happen. A, I'm not convinced that it did happen, but B, I don't think a celeb in their right mind would admit to that on the stand. They might say something like, yeah, I was at the party, but I didn't know all that was going on because that puts them on the hook. So I don't think you're going to get any celeb to say that. And anybody that does say that, I mean, the person's got to be probative. They've got to be on to prove something. It doesn't matter they were at the party. The party isn't the felony. It's got to be a witness that is willing to implicate themselves for some type of a deal, some type of immunity. Although, as you and I have discussed many times, the fact that you don't come forward and volunteer information about a crime, that in itself is not a crime under our jurisprudence. We don't put that duty on someone and make it a crime if you don't come forward. But no, I don't think there's going to be a celeb. I really don't. And if there were a celeb, it would just muddy the water, in my opinion.
- [15:03]
Sean Diddy Combs
Yeah, and I don't think that we'll be seeing any celebrities really supporting him either, because that at this point is suicide.
- [15:11]
Nancy Grace
Celebs in the sense that they were victims, like Cassie Ventura, she's a celebrity. And many other women I believe, according to the state, that were in the music industry turned out to be victims in that capacity. I consider them celebrities. Yeah, they're going to come forward pursuant to subpoena. They may not want to come forward, but they are because they've been subpoenaed and ordered to by the court and.
- [15:36]
Sean Diddy Combs
The trial hasn't even started yet. So I can only imagine what evidence, you know, once it's out there that we'll end up seeing and we'll end up talking about on this show and crime stories. But do you think that there's a chance that once this all happens, once all the evidence is presented that Diddy can be found not guilty and walk free?
- [15:57]
Nancy Grace
No, I don't. Unless. Well, there is actually a way, if the victim's credibility was so destroyed that the jury chose not to believe them. Yeah. However, the jury is the sole decider of the facts and the law in the case. And I think it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for a jury to disbelieve all of those women and believe one defendant. Now, some of the women, well, they'll all be attacked on cross examination. Their character will be impugned. The defense will bring forward possible pecuniary or money interests that the witness the victim may have had. They will attack the victims for not coming forward until Cassidy Ventura came forward. I mean, there's going to be a lot of avenues to attack the victims on the stand, on cross examination, and they're going to walk out in tatters. They're going to be shredded. But the sheer number of victims will be overwhelming. So you'll have to disbelieve all of these ladies and choose to believe Sean Combs. I think that's going to be really hard to do, even if you've got a couple of victims that are destroyed on cross, probably through no fault of their own. I've seen rape victims be destroyed on cross because they didn't come forward at the time. How do you fix that? You find an outcry witness. What is an outcry witness? An outcry witness is someone the victim told about the rape at the time. See, it may not be a police report, but it's an outcry which corroborates the truth of it. So 10 years ago, I told you Sean Combs raped me at this party. I told you that then. But I never made a police report. That adds credence, credibility to the victim's statement. So a lot of victims are going to be attacked because they didn't come forward at the time because they continued in a seemingly friendly relationship with Combs. A lot of women do that. Unlike your boss, makes advances on you unwanted. What do you do? Quit and starve. There's a lot of reasons women maintain a relationship with the rapist. It's hard to understand. I know. So we may lose credibility on a couple of witnesses, but the sheer number of them, I find it hard to believe that a jury will choose to believe him. One person over all these women. I don't believe it. Yeah.
- [18:30]
Marjorie Hernandez
There's so much more coming up, but for now, let's pause for a break. Welcome back to the Trial of Diddy. We're still here with Nancy Grace.
- [18:53]
Sean Diddy Combs
I think for Hollywood itself, you know, there's been a reckoning since 2017, since the MeToo movement. Do you Think that now this is going to actually change things in Hollywood.
- [19:06]
Nancy Grace
Save your breath, don't waste it. Because this has been going on there forever. And not just Hollywood. It's so easy to vilify Hollywood. I mean, I lived out in LA during Dancing with the Stars. I've never seen so many tall, skinny, bleach blondes with big bosoms. They like cement blocks sticking straight out in my life. But that said, not judging, don't care. But it's not just Hollywood. What about in D.C. where politicians have all this power and everybody's like, yes, yes to them. Same thing. I mean, in a corporate structure where the big boss, the CEO gets away with all sorts of inappropriate activity. I mean, it just, it happens all the time and nobody says anything but Hollywood. Yes. You know, as I love to say, and I can feel you about to roll your eyes when you don't know a horse. Look at his track record. In other words, if you don't know what Hollywood is going to do, look at what Hollywood has already done. That is a fair precursor. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. That's Hollywood. But it's not just Hollywood. So do I think this is going to end? That's a big no. It's going to keep on going.
- [20:32]
Sean Diddy Combs
Then what about the victims? I mean, we had a whole me too movement that was supposed to empower, you know, women to come forward. Do you think that that's had an effect at least to maybe call out these big powerhouse, big players?
- [20:46]
Nancy Grace
I really do believe it has had that effect. And I think that it's typically women. Yes. I know that men are harassed as well, but it's usually women. The overwhelming majority of sex victims are women. I think they're more likely to come forward now than ever before. But after the DD trial, after the way we're going to see the victims shredded on cross exam, destroyed, humiliated, embarrassed, impeached. I don't know what kind of chilling effect, as lawyers love to say, chilling effect that's going to have on future victims.
- [21:22]
Sean Diddy Combs
And I think every legal expert has said it's an absolutely horrible idea for Diddy to take the stand. But do you think that there's a.
- [21:29]
Kayla Brantley
Reality in which his ego is so.
- [21:32]
Sean Diddy Combs
Big that he would want to get up there?
- [21:34]
Kayla Brantley
Totally.
- [21:35]
Nancy Grace
Do I think he's going to. No. Is there a strong possibility he will? Yes, because did you forget he's the smartest one in the room? You didn't know he had his law degree? Not he's going to tell his lawyers exactly what to do. And the lawyers will have to go on the record, outside the jury's presence and put it on the record. I told him not to take the stand. He's doing this against my advice. They better. They're going to get charged with ineffective assistance of counsel, which just so you know about ineffective assistance of counsel that is claimed in practically every criminal appeal. And in practically every criminal appeal. It's not true, but a defense attorney is willing to be lambasted on appeal and for their former client usually have a different lawyer on appeal than you do at trial for this very reason. So the appellate lawyer can claim, oh, they were awful. They did XYZ as a grounds to get a new trial or a reversal. And the trial lawyer knows this is going to happen. It's just a given. I mean, you got a guy sitting behind bars for 20 to life. They'll do anything, they'll say anything. So the defense attorney knows going into it, there's probably going to be an effective ineffective assistance of counsel claim leveled against them on the appeal. Whether they were brilliant or whether they really were terrible and fell asleep at the council table. It's going to happen. So they better put it on the record that they advise Sean Combs not to take the stand. He's doing it anyway.
- [23:11]
Sean Diddy Combs
Nancy, we have a few minutes left with you. What are your final thoughts on this case?
- [23:16]
Kayla Brantley
Three weeks out from jury selection, we.
- [23:20]
Nancy Grace
Hear about Sean Combs every day. It's all about Combs. You know what? It's not about him. It's about these women. And I have dealt with so many rape victims and the rape ruined their lives. I've had rape victims that could never have a romantic relationship with a man after that. The flashbacks are unbearable. And you know, it's not just the fact that you're physically raped. It's the feeling of helplessness. You can't fight back and you just raped. There's nothing you can do. Then after, people may not believe you. That feeling of helplessness never goes away. It can rear its ugly head at any moment. It affects your relationships. It affects the way if you do get in a relationship, how you interact with your mate, be it man or woman. It affects how, if you're lucky enough to have children, it affects how you raise them. You know, like, my fiance was murdered shortly before our wedding. You think I don't know where my children are right now? You don't think I'll look at life 360, 50 times a day and send them a lot of unwanted texts asking them to respond. Are you okay? Are you okay? What are you doing? Yes. It affects you the rest of your life. When my husband leaves to go out of town, I'm like, well, he could die. That's just my reality.
- [25:03]
Sean Diddy Combs
That's trauma. Yeah.
- [25:05]
Nancy Grace
Same thing with these women. So we're all about, oh, Diddy's turning gray behind bars. Who gives a flying fig about his hair? I don't. I don't care. I want this to be about the victims. That's what I want. That's how I perceive it.
- [25:22]
Marjorie Hernandez
So for now, that's it. Thanks again to our guest so wonderful, Nancy Grace. And as we prepare for Diddy's own trial in May, what other trials would you like for us to cover? Let us know by email the trialailymail.com or you can WhatsApp us on/4477966, 57512 and start your message with trial.
- [25:51]
Kayla Brantley
Thank you all for listening. Please share all your comments, suggestions and thoughts on the trial of Diddy on Apple or Spotify and follow us on TikTok@DailyMailCrime. Do follow the Trial of Diddy as we'll be here each week with fresh information, new insights and some expert guests.
- [26:08]
Sean Diddy Combs
Goodbye.