Prosecutor Speaks on Death Sentence for 7-year-old Athena Strand’s Killer

Summary

The Trial: USA — Prosecutor Speaks on Death Sentence for 7-year-old Athena Strand’s Killer

Episode Date: May 27, 2026
Host: Kayla Brantley, The Crime Desk
Guest: James Stainton, Wise County District Attorney

---

Episode Overview

This deeply affecting episode explores the arrest, trial, and death sentence for Tanner Horner, the FedEx driver convicted of the 2022 kidnapping, sexual assault, and murder of 7-year-old Athena Strand in rural Paradise, Texas. Host Kayla Brantley interviews Wise County District Attorney James Stainton, who led the emotionally exhausting prosecution. Stainton reflects on the investigation, decision to seek the death penalty, trauma experienced by the community, and what he hopes people will remember about Athena.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crime and Initial Details ([00:07]–[02:12])

• Athena Strand was kidnapped from her home by Tanner Horner, a FedEx delivery driver, on November 30, 2022.
• The child was sexually abused and murdered; Horner confessed, claiming an "alter ego" was responsible.
• The case’s evidence included chilling audio and video from the FedEx truck, as well as cooperation from Horner in locating Athena’s body.
• Quote:
  “There was no excuse for the unspeakable acts that Tanner Horner committed.” — Narrator ([01:57])

2. Impact on Family and Testimony at Trial ([04:33]–[08:16])

• Athena’s mother, Maitland Gandy, delivered powerful testimony, attending every court proceeding in honor of her daughter.
• Quote:
  “I tell her that I’m sorry that I wasn’t there to protect her and to stop him. I tell her that I love her ... We’ll get justice for her.” — Maitland Gandy ([05:47])
• Gandy’s presence was a symbol of strength and the family’s devastation was palpable throughout the trial.

3. DA Stainton’s Personal Motivation and Background ([08:16]–[14:02])

• Stainton describes the emotional difficulty of the trial, drawing on support from his wife and staff.
• Detailed his local roots and 20+ year career, emphasizing his commitment to the community and personal involvement in the prosecution.
• Memorable Moment:
  Stainton recounts standing on the bridge as Athena’s body was recovered, a moment that later anchored his closing argument ([13:36]).

4. Investigation and Prosecution Strategy ([14:02]–[15:38])

• Stainton relied on a close-knit investigative team; he empowered the Texas Ranger and sheriff’s office to work freely and provided guidance.
• Discussed difficulty and deliberation around seeking the death penalty, a DA-only decision in Texas.

5. Death Penalty Decision and Justification ([15:38]–[22:13])

• Stainton defends seeking the death penalty, citing both the incomprehensible violence and severity of Horner’s premeditation.
  • “Anybody who listened to that audio would have no other decision but [the death penalty].” ([15:52])
• He describes the harrowing experience of reviewing the audio evidence and its emotional toll.
  • “I got halfway home and my hands were shaking so bad that I couldn’t physically drive my truck... I had to pull over and call a friend and she talked me through it.” ([18:38])

6. How Capital Punishment Works in Texas ([22:13]–[26:07])

• Explains the rare circumstances under which the death penalty is pursued (“murder plus another crime,” e.g. kidnapping, sexual assault).
• In Athena’s case, the DA opted for kidnapping plus murder due to clear video evidence, rather than sexual abuse plus murder which would require more complex proof.
• Quote:
  “If you kill a child under 10, you can get death. If you kill a child over the age of 10, you cannot. A lot of people don’t realize that.” ([24:40])

7. Trial Experience and Emotional Impact ([26:07]–[28:11])

• Stainton offered a blunt warning to the jury about the disturbing evidence, emphasizing no amount of preparation could suffice.
• Restrictions were in place to prevent illicit recording of the graphic audio.
• The verdict process for the DA was “cold”; he felt neither elation nor happiness, just a solemn sense that justice had been done. ([37:48]–[40:28])

8. Case Details: Horner’s Behavior and Investigation ([30:08]–[37:31])

• Horner took calculated steps to cover cameras in the truck, showing a level of planning.
• The decisive video/audio evidence was preserved thanks largely to the vigilance of a third-party tech company (Velocitor).
• Stainton reflects on the chilling reality that Horner’s background lacked the “red flags” typical of such offenders, making the crime all the more frightening for the community.

9. Community Impact ([41:29]–[44:33])

• Profound and lasting trauma, with many children in Athena’s school struggling to process what happened.
• Parents reported not letting their kids play outside anymore, shattering the area’s sense of rural safety.
• The community nevertheless united in support, with hundreds assisting in the search and a memorial now standing where Athena’s body was found.
• Memorable Moment:
  “They lit the courthouse up pink.” — a tribute for Athena ([44:32])

10. Reflections and Hope ([44:35]–[47:56])

• Stainton hopes that by speaking about the case, he honors Athena, supports victims, and guides other prosecutors who may face similar tragedies.
• Athena’s mother has founded a non-profit (athenastrandsarmy.com) to support families and law enforcement impacted by the murder of a child.

11. What to Remember About Athena ([48:00]–[51:20])

• Stainton pleads that the public remember Athena as a vibrant, mischievous child, not as a victim or news story.
• He shares the “orange story”—a cherished family anecdote behind a favorite photo of Athena grinning with an orange slice in her mouth.
• Quote:
  “That’s the story. That’s what I want people to remember... Don’t remember him. Look at those pictures of her.” ([48:00])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There is no way anybody out there can listen to that and listen to what that man did ... and say that the death penalty is never an option.” — James Stainton ([15:52])
• “Nobody’s that tough. I got halfway home, and my hands were shaking so bad... I could not physically drive my truck.” — James Stainton ([18:38])
• “If we’re going to give somebody the ultimate punishment, they need the ultimate due process.” — James Stainton ([46:10])
• “You need to listen if you want to remember anything about this case. Listen to Mom’s testimony and listen to Dad’s testimony. If that’s the only two things you listen to about this case, those are the two things.” — James Stainton ([50:19])

---

Key Timestamps

• [00:07] — Recounting the abduction and crime
• [05:32] — Maitland Gandy’s (Athena’s mother) testimony
• [08:16] — DA Stainton on personal motivation/support system
• [14:15] — Investigation strategy & local law enforcement roles
• [15:52] — Justifying the death penalty
• [17:54] — Emotional burden of prosecuting the case
• [22:45] — Texas death penalty laws explained
• [30:40] — Horner’s attempts at concealing evidence
• [33:52] — Profile of Horner and lack of warning signs
• [41:29] — Impact on the community and children
• [44:32] — “They lit the courthouse up pink” — community memorial
• [48:00] — Stainton on remembering Athena’s spirit, “orange story”
• [51:20] — Final thanks and hopes for Athena’s legacy

---

Summary

This episode of The Trial: USA offers an unflinching look at the investigation and prosecution of one of Texas’s most harrowing child murder cases. DA James Stainton, deeply rooted in the rural North Texas community, details the immense personal and professional burdens of prosecuting Athena Strand’s killer, the devastating effect on the community, and his unwavering belief that the death penalty was the only appropriate response in this instance.

Yet Stainton and Maitland Gandy, Athena’s mother, urge that Athena not be remembered for the horror of her last day, but for her bright personality, laughter, and the love of her family. The episode ends on a note of hope: that Athena’s memory inspires both prevention and compassion, ensuring victims and their families are never forgotten.

---

For more information or to support victims’ families:
Visit Athena Strand’s mother’s foundation: athenastrandsarmy.com

(Skip to the provided timestamps to hear the most impactful segments.)

Transcript

[Podcast Host (Crime Desk)]

The Crime Desk Arresting Podcasts Today we

[Narrator/Reporter]

revisit the Athena Strand tragedy in Texas. She was a 7 year old with a heartwarming smile. She had rosy cheeks and accessorized her sandy blonde hair with bows. Athena was kidnapped from what should have been the safety of her family's sprawling property on November 30, 2022. Her abductor and killer was Tanner Horner, a then 31 year old FedEx driver who delivered a Walmart package to her house. Inside was a set of you can be anything Barbies. Her stepmom ordered Athena for Christmas. But Athena would never see her gift, a toy collection meant to teach kids about career possibilities. Instead, she encountered Horner, who had been casing the area for a child victim prior to snatching up Athena. According to the prosecution in this case, inside his delivery truck, he sexually abused, beat, smothered and strangled the child. In an astonishing confession to investigators, Horner said the girl cried as he failed at snapping her neck. He said he choked her lifeless instead because the previous method didn't work. It wasn't really him who did those evil things, he claimed. The culprit was his alter ego named Zero. Horner deflected responsibility and said he regretted adhering to Zero's plan. Horner spent much of the interview cooperating with Texas Rangers by directing them to where he dumped Athena's body, guiding them through his route on a map. He was so bizarrely casual at times, it was as if he were giving them directions to a gas station. Tanner Horner has issues. According to testimony at his trial, his family story is a sad one. Generations of sexual abuse, violence and alcoholism. Also a history of suicides. His mother was a drug addict and he was allegedly sexually abused as a child. He's on the autism spectrum and has behaved awkwardly throughout his life. Prosecutors had a simple message for the jury that decided Horner fate at a recent death penalty trial. There was no excuse for the unspeakable acts that Tanner Horner committed.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

The jury agreed.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Horner was sentenced to death on May

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

5, about five weeks after pleading guilty

[Narrator/Reporter]

to murder and kidnapping. We're joined today by the man who led the charge to get justice for Athena and her family. In the courtroom, Wise County District Attorney James Stainton. This is the Trial usa. I'm Kayla Brantley.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

We'll be back in a moment.

[Acast Promo Voice]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Brooke Devard]

Hello, hello, it's Brooke Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care journeys, wellness tips and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for naked beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us Monday AI

[Monday.com Promo Voice]

agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now they live inside Monday.com, so they see the full my work, my team, the whole company and I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff. Knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com

[Lowe's Promo Voice]

pros save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's right now, get 10% off in stock Trex Naturals decking now available in more styles. Plus get 15% off select custom entry, interior and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site. To help keep your jobs moving, get the brand's pros trust priced right and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Ballot through 527 while supplies last selection varies by location.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

The case against Tanner Horner was prosecuted by Wise County District Attorney James Stainton, a veteran lawyer who heads a small office in a rural area of about 80,000 residents. The child's murder in Paradise, Texas, which is a country town with vast landscapes and a single traffic light, made international headlines. It also left a tragic stain on a place where kids had outdoor adventures and parents used to have a sense of security. The trial was held about 40 miles away in Fort Worth. There, Athena's devastated mother, Maitland Gandy, wept throughout her testimony but vowed to keep her daughter's memory alive. The grieving mom wore a hot pink blazer with her hair tinted a similar shade in honor of Athena's favorite color. She clutched onto a red hairband with a large bow that Athena was photographed wearing before she died. As a harrowing testimony concluded, James Stainton asked Gandy about the daily dialogue she had with her late child.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Do you talk to Athena sometimes?

[Maitland Gandy (Athena's Mother)]

I talk to her every day.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

What do you say to her when you talk to her?

[Maitland Gandy (Athena's Mother)]

I tell her that I'm sorry that I wasn't there to protect her and to stop him. I tell her that I love her and I talk to her about Ry and what she's doing in life and how much she loves and misses her. And I tell her about you and about patience and about Michelle and about my attorneys and how y' all are working really hard to make sure that she's not forgotten and that she didn't just die and that we'll get justice for her.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Ry is Athena's little sister and she had other siblings in a loving blended family that stretched between Texas and Oklahoma. Her killing forever scarred her parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles and friends. Gandy at one point stared down the defendant as she told the jury why it had been vital for her to attend all of his court proceedings.

[Maitland Gandy (Athena's Mother)]

Because I had to cover up handprint bruises around my daughter's neck and because she no longer has a voice. And I want people to know that she's not just some story. She's not just some number. She's not just some picture you see in a headline. She was loved. She is loved and she is missed and she was real and she had a life and she wanted to live. And no one can take that from her. Not a single person can take that from her. And I will be her face and I will be her voice. And I will make sure that every person in this world knows that she was loved and that she wanted to live and we want her in our lives.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

And now I'm joined by Wise County District Attorney James Stainton. James, thank you so much for joining us today. This case is about as raw and as difficult as they come. I just want to know what got you through this. As the person responsible for getting justice for Athena, what kept you going throughout this multi year process from arrest to sentencing?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Well, I'll say it's two things. Number one, my wife, she and I have been together 30 years. She met me when I was 19, and she was there every single day at trial all through the video. She never missed a day. And I told her to go home multiple times. She didn't need to be a part of this. And her response was, if you're there, I'm there. Period. And she was there. The rest of the time. She never missed a day. The other part of that is my staff. I got this job by governor appointment in January of 21. And I got a wonderful staff. They. They take care of me in ways I don't even know that they're taking care of me. And that is what got me through. I never had to lose focus on the actual trial. I could stay 110% focused on doing what I needed to do as a lawyer, and I never worried about anything else. My office manager is magnificent. All of my staff took amazing care of me, and that's what got us through. And there were three lawyers working on it, me and my two assistants, and that's what got us my wife number one, and then my staff. That was it.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Yeah. And this is the kind of case that's deeply personal. You know, you think of Athena and other child victims who are absolutely defenseless, and I can only imagine that this is a case that you will never forget, and you really lived it, you know, for three years plus. Can you tell us a bit about your career and where this case fits into it?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I've got a pretty diverse career. I started off out of Baylor Law school, class of 2000, and I went and worked for a court of appeals doing legal writing, which I'm not especially good at. So that was a bit of a challenge. I left there, came and worked at a local law firm here in Decatur. Now, Wise county is my home county. It's where I grew up, it's where I went to high school, it's where I played football, all of those things. This is. This is my home. And I came back in 2001 and worked at a law firm and did just about everything a young country lawyer would do. Everything from divorces, DWIs, family law, traffic tickets, general legal advice, some contracts. I tried some car wreck cases. You know, basically anything a young lawyer could do to get time in the courtroom, I did. And that all kind of built me to where I am now. So in 2009, I had an opportunity to run for the Wise county attorney. We're a split county, so we have a misdemeanor prosecutor that's elected, and we have a felony prosecutor that's elected. So I got elected in 2009, and I served in that position from 2009 to 2021. Tried a bunch of DWI cases. Did a lot of good work with domestic violence victims. I feel like my best work over there was with them. I spent a lot of time with a lot of victims that I don't know if y' all know anything about domestic violence, but it's not something they really come forward. It takes a lot to get to break that cycle. And we did a lot with that. We did protective orders, mental commitments, things of that nature, and advised the county. And then in 2021, there was an opening in the district attorney's office, the felony prosecutor office. I went back and forth, but I had some really, really good close friends, local state representatives. My sheriff at the time, which you may have seen him during the trial, Sheriff Lane Aiken, who came to me and he's a little bit older than me, he said, you're the kid, this is what we want. And when somebody like that, that's been a Texas Ranger lieutenant and a sheriff comes to you and says you're the kid, you don't ignore it. I also had multiple other people, some friends of mine, that one of our local state reps was really in my corner and he said you're was a lot of late night conversations with the wife, a lot of very emotional conversations. And I applied and got appointed and to have the governor sign your ticket is something I'll never forget. And so I started In January of 21, a little rough. My wife got a Covid exposure and got Covid literally the day that I got appointed. And so I actually, it's kind of funny, I had to take my oath, you know, like this in sitting in my truck on FaceTime with the county judge. And they had to record it. That's how we had to do it. And I had to take a seven day break because, you know, all those Covid rules, that's, that's what I did. And so I, I took office in January of 21 and you know, just doing my thing, you know, thinking I was cool, felony prosecutor, you know, I'm the guy. And then Athena goes missing November 30th of 2022. And that's, that's where this case began with me. And I was actually at a conference, elected official conference down in Austin area. And they were giving me updates. We were just thinking in the beginning it was going to be a missing child. We have that happen. It's rural America, you know, kids go out, get lost. We have a lot of parks and wildlife land here. So people get lost. And I thought, yeah, we'll get her back, we'll get her back. She'll be a little cold. You maybe she have a cold or her dad will be real mad at her, you know what I mean? That's kind of how we thought. But it, it didn't happen that way. And so I rolled into town December 2nd which is a Friday. I got picked up by the sheriff. My wife kicked me out of the car, gave me a bottle of water and a. And a Clif Bar. And at three in the morning, I rolled back to the house. But before that, the sheriff and I, you know, we were at the. The bridge. The sheriff and I were. That was. I don't know if you listened to the trial, but that was part of my closing. But that's a true story. The sheriff and myself and a couple others were standing on the bridge when they pulled her body from the water.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

So how does this investigation then get started once you find a body and you find out that Athena was murdered? Is this now your whole office working around the clock to get this case off the ground? Where do you begin?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

So here's the. The really nice thing for me, being a local official and knowing all my people, I knew everybody. They knew me. They knew what I brought to the table. They knew how I operated. They know how I do things. They know how I plan. We work cases together. My ranger, who you saw, Ranger Espinosa, who you saw on the stand for a couple of days, he was new to us a little bit, but not new to being a ranger. My sheriff at that time, former ranger, it was literally the perfect storm of investigation. We had all the right people. Although we're small, we're a small county compared to, say, where you guys are up in New York or someplace else. We had all the right people, and it was not hard to get off the ground. I turned the ranger in the sheriff's office loose and let them do their job. You know, they gave me updates and things, but other than that, I took their leash off and they do what they do. And for me, it was just updates and planning. Some of it was me just giving input on kind of where we need to go, just to kind of be a guidepost, if you will. But I don't. Those guys know what they're doing. I don't get in their way, and they handle business. We had sometimes daily briefings. I had some big decisions to make, obviously, whether or not to seek the death penalty or not. That in Texas is only signed by the district attorney alone.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Yeah. And I do want to turn to the death penalty. You said at the trial that a crime this depraved is the reason that the death penalty exists in Texas. Why was the death penalty, in your view, the only appropriate result here?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Anybody who listened to that audio would have no other decision but that. There is no way anybody out there can listen to that and listen to what that man did to that little girl in the back of that FedEx truck and say that the death penalty is never an option. If you didn't hear it, don't. You don't want to be in that room. You don't want to be nowhere near it. Don't read about it. Just trust me when I tell you it's horrific. And that's the reason, is that, you know, you've got a child. I mean, she was what, 65, 67 pounds? He was a 250 pound man. And I don't know if any of y' all saw some of the stuff. We didn't put the autopsy photos up on the screen. That was for a reason. I'll leave that where that is. There's a reason for that. Just the level of violence is something. And I've tried murder cases, so I comprehend that people can be violent with other people. I tried two murder cases in the year prior to starting Athena's trial. They were shootings and they were very violent. It's nothing like this when it comes to a child. It's just not. She was completely defenseless. And with the addition of the DNA evidence that we got that he was also inappropriate with her in that way, that's really why we have that. I mean, just when we think we can step back and we can say, hey, people, you know, maybe you're learning. Maybe we're not as savage as a society. Maybe we can consider not having the death penalty. Maybe we can consider other options. This guy reminds us of why we have it.

[Maitland Gandy (Athena's Mother)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

I can hear the emotion in your voice and see it on your face.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Yeah, it's tough. Sorry.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

No, it's absolutely okay. I mean, I can only imagine, you know, you said you didn't put those autopsy pictures up and, you know, don't listen to the audio if you haven't. But you had to look at those pictures and listen to that audio. What is it like handling such a sensitive case like this?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

It is. There are nights you go home and you don't sleep, period. We kept that video in the office very tight. There was only a couple of people but myself and one of my investigators that had access to it. Nobody in my office had access to it. It. Very few people in the sheriff's office had access to it. It's something you can't ever unhear personally. Just because you ask about me personally. I went weeks after all that complete video came in. We're two to three hours a day sleep for weeks. I'M pretty honest. When I first heard it, I thought I was a tough guy. I feel like. I mean, I hunt and fish. I'm an outdoor guy. If you look me up on Facebook, I'm your quintessential redneck. I do at redneck things. Nobody's that tough. I got halfway home, and my hands were shaking so bad that I couldn't physically drive my truck. I could not physically drive my truck. I had to pull over and call a friend, and she talked me through it. Now we get closer to trial. I got to get tough, and I got to sit down and I got to push my way through it. And I was able to do that, and I was still able to function in trial. That's because I've listened to the video 10 or 12 times to inoculate myself to what's coming. But that's the only way. That's literally the only way, you know? And I'm a dad. I mean, I have a daughter. I have kids. The only thing you can do is put your head down and go to work. Because, to be honest with you, I don't have a choice. When you get your back up against the wall, you don't have a choice. But I will say this in my office, I'm going to turn my dealer. I'm going to show you all something here. Y' all see this right here? Yeah. So this is my office. See what sits there looking at me every day?

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Oh, wow. For our listeners, you know, there's a photo of Athena there with her big red bow.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

That's right. But I wanted y' all to see that because that's how you get through it. Because, you know, other people, you could quit. You could go home. I don't have the option to quit.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

This is your job, you know, this is your career.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

This is what I did.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

I think for a lot of people, they think, you know, if you're a district attorney, you must be used to seeing this. You try murders all the time, but at the end of the day, you know, you are human, and you could never desensitize yourself.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

It's a little different in big offices where you're the elected and you have so many lawyers. My friend that runs the DA's office in Tarrant county, he has, I don't know, 100 lawyers or something. He's got a whole lot of lawyers. I don't operate that way. I try my own cases. I talk to my own victims. I meet with my own family. Families. And it's harder that way. There are Days. That again, I don't sleep. I'm sure my blood pressure is probably not where it's supposed to be after this trial. But when you stare these victims in the face and you sit them in the office, you understand why you do this. That's why you do it. When you sit across the desk and you look that way and you look at the parents and you look them in the eye and you say, listen, I got you. You know, because they don't have a voice in this. They have it, but it's outside. It's behind the bar. It's not in the middle of it. I am their voice. They have to sit there. Athena's mom sat there literally right behind me the entire trial. And that's where I wanted her, because I wanted her to be as close to me as she could be. She's a super smart lady, very invested in this. She's so smart. And she knows. She knew the court process. She knew what was going on. But that's why you do it. Now, that'll probably shave off 15 years off my life the way I do it. But I will tell you, when you sit there with people in the courtroom and you try cases and they're with you, it means something. And you're not just a manager. You're not letting your lawyers do the job. There's a lot of great lawyers. Tarrant county has wonderful lawyers. I'm friends with a lot of them. They do wonderful work over there for people. But, you know, I'm a firm believer that if you're the guy with your name on the door, you need to be the one front and center. Not for ego or. That's not what I'm talking. Not for media. It's because if you're going to tell somebody yes, they need to hear it from me. And if you're going to tell somebody no, they need to hear it from me. It makes it harder because sometimes you have to tell people no, you have to tell a victim. I can't physically prove your case.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Yeah, I commend you for that level of care. And I feel like that is part of the reason how you get these victims justice, you know, and there is justice for Athena now. But if you could just explain for those who might not know how the death penalty works in Texas, there's a lot of assumptions and myths surrounding the process, and it's actually more rare than people think that not all murderers in Texas are eligible for capital punishment. What factors qualified this specific case for Capitol status?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

So death penalty in Texas Is very limited. There's a very limited list of things that open the door. Remember here, each DA has the ability to choose to seek the death penalty or not. Okay? So it doesn't happen automatically. There is no automatic. If you commit a crime, you go straight to jury trial and face the death penalty. That's not how it works. A lot of people feel like that how it is in Texas. It's not each individual da. That would be me. If you pull the file, I signed the notice of state's intent to seek death in Tanner Horner's case. I signed it, and that's the way it has to work. Now, Texas is. Is. You know, we get our reputation of being the execution state or the death penalty state. That's really very untrue. It is such a limited set of circumstances. Let me give you a couple of examples so you'll kind of understand. Most people know that if you. If you kill a police officer in the line of duty, right? That opens the door where the state can seek death. Most people know that if you kill multiple people, let's say you're a gangbanger and you go into a store and write and you kill two people in the store, Most people know that the state could seek death there. Texas has those as well. We have some unique ones, like the hitman law. We have law that says if you're a hitman, if you kill a judge, these are all the things that we have. The ones people don't know about is if you are in the process of committing another crime. For example, in Athena's case, the crime was kidnapping. If you're in the process of committing kidnapping and you commit another crime, that opens the door for the state to seek death. Now, it's not just any crime. Kidnapping, sexual assault, robbery, things like that, very serious crimes, and you kill someone, then the death penalty door is open. But it doesn't mean that people are going to seek it. Okay? So in this case, in Texas, with regard to Athena, we went down the road of kidnapping and murder. In the course of kidnapping, that was the most streamlined version. We could have done murdering of a child under 10. That's Texas law. If you kill a child under 10, you can get death. If you kill a child over the age of 10, you cannot. A lot of people don't realize that.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

It seems that you went kidnapping and murder. What about sexual abuse and murder?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

That was an option, but the level of proof to prove the kidnapping, you could watch 8 minutes of video and see the kidnapping for yourself. I didn't need DNA. I didn't need an expert. I didn't need anything like that. And in these types of cases, sometimes you can try to prove yourself into a corner and you don't need to. I had a kidnapping case that was absolute. There was no doubt about it. Not only that is that I was a witness to it. I watched it happen because I had it on video. That was the most streamlined way. Now, could we have gone death of a child under the age of 10? We could have. Is there a possibility due to the DNA results that we could have gone down that road? Yes. I chose the most streamlined route, and it proved to be a lot more streamlined route to get a jury, because in Texas, juries have to qualify to be death penalty certified, meaning they have to be able to consider life as well as death. They have to be able to consider both in Texas before they can sit on a jury.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

And speaking of the jury, you spoke earlier about the audio being played in the courtroom. What were some of the reactions in the courtroom from the jury and other people there? Because, like you mentioned, it was absolutely horrifying and heartbreaking to listen to.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

It was universal. I think everybody in the courtroom, every single person there, I think it was universal. It was absolutely horrific. It's something you can't unhear. It's something that will stay with you, but it's part of the evidence. And if you listen to my opening, I was very clear when I talked to him in opening that I've been doing this for 25 years. And I told the jury, you need to buckle up. And I wasn't trying to be mean or heartless. I know it may have sounded that way, but I needed to let them let everybody know that I was not joking. I was not overplaying my hand. I was not kidding. I was not trying to be a lawyer and, you know, jazz it up for the jury. That's. I don't. I don't jazz things up anyway. It's not my style. But there's no amount of warning you can give anybody for this. The media that was in the other room, we shut that off because we didn't want any recordings of that. You know, people are unfortunately kind of sick these days sometimes and will hit the record button. They pulled up all cell phones. They unplugged everything. There was no audio. If you wanted to hear it, you had to be in the courtroom. And there were multiple people who left the courtroom. You got to remember this was over an hour of. And that when I say an hour, not from beginning to end an hour. The bad stuff was an hour. That's the, that's the real horror of it. And I'm not going to speak about it. I'm never going to talk about it again in any type of detail ever. That video is never going to get watched again. It's never going to get played again.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

And Tanner Horner was also there at the time. What was his reaction as that was being played?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I didn't look at him. No offense to y', all, but I don't care what his reaction was. I was more worried about the family who were not in the courtroom at the time. I was more worried about my staff and my investigators, other people, my own wife who was in the courtroom the entire time. I really could care less what his reaction is. I was more worried about the people that I could take care of.

[Acast Promo Voice]

Acast Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Jameela Jamil]

What if you laughed all through your commute? Or if you heard the funniest story while at the gym?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Well, now you can.

[Jameela Jamil]

I'm Jameela Jamil and guest on my new podcast, Rob Turns share their most mortifying and hilarious disaster stories. I'm talking people like May Martin, Bob the Drag Queen, Katherine Ryan, Jake Johnson, Margaret Cho, Simon Pegg, Penn Badgley, and so many more. So listen wherever you get your podcast. Wrong Turns Where Dignity Goes to Die

[Acast Promo Voice]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast everywhere acast.com being outside is good for us.

[Rails to Trails Conservancy Promo Voice]

It's that simple. And trails make it easy for us to walk, bike and be active outside in our own backyards. On the trail, we see people moving, connecting with their communities, making the places where they live great. For 40 years, Rails to Trails Conservancy has led the way, creating trails across the country, making it safer and easier for everyone to get outside. They want you to get involved, find your trail and start your journey today at railstotrails.org iheart and follow @railstotrails on social

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

horner he took steps to try to conceal what he'd done, and that included covering a dashboard camera in the FedEx truck at one point during the kidnapping and before the abuse began, he did not count on the audio recording that you and your team were able to preserve. And you know, it was an absolutely chilling encounter that you argued captured sexual abuse and a struggle. What else did Tanner Horner try to do to evade any type of responsibility? And what did those steps prove about

[Narrator/Reporter]

his state of mind?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

So the the camera began it was at least. Our contention is there was two views on the camera. If you've ever had a dash cam, it has the. The cabin view, the cab view, so of the driver. And then it also has the forward facing view. You were driving in front of you. And many of these were the old school ones. The cabin camera only came on with some form of accident or hard braking or something. And that was just to protect corporations, not just FedEx, but all of the driver and delivery corporations, you know, from lawsuit if their guy shot the middle finger at someone, I guess, or things of that nature. But in this case, the way that this company had done it, it did record all of that. So what he had done is the day before, at approximately the same time, at the end of his shift, about an hour and 15 minutes before being on exactly the same road, he covered up the camera, the front facing camera. He drove down the road and delivered a package. At the very end of Athena's road, he covered up the camera. Now, it wasn't my team that got that. I wanted to clarify the company that ran that camera. You may have seen that the company is called Velocitor. They're a company out of North Carolina. And they're the ones who took care of that video for us, our team. They're the ones who hold the proprietary software to be able to access it. So they saved us from all of that. The guy at Velocitor saw this and saw that it was going to be something that needed his attention. And so he pulled all the video himself. He was the real reason why we have it all. We would have had just the kidnapping part and the audio, but he got us the days before and the days after. So it's really to credit to him and Velocitor that did that. Because we didn't have anything to do with that. He took care of us on that. So he covered up the camera about an hour and 15 minutes before on the 29th. And then about an hour and 20 minutes before or so before he got to Athena's house, he reached up and he covered up the front facing camera with, we believe, the little sticky, the little 2 by 2 or 2 by 3 sticky that has the FedEx number on it. We believe that's what he used. And he did it the day before and the day of. And so that's on exactly the same road. That smells like planning to me.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Right, that's what I was going to say, that it shows a level of understanding what you had just done and trying to cover it up and really plan something.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

That's right. Now, I'm not sure. And we never got this whether he knew that the interior camera was recording. Clearly he did, because before he committed the ultimate act, he did go ahead and cover up that camera as well, but he didn't cover up the audio.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Through your investigation, what did you learn about who Tanner Horner was? You know, we know that he was a father, he was engaged. Signs that you may not think of a cold blooded killer. But were there any warning signs about the type of individual who's capable of this that, you know, parents or maybe employers should be aware of?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Well, and this is what I said in closing. I mean, evil sometimes hides. And I used A quote from 2 Corinthians in my opening that often Satan masquerades as an angel of light. And I really felt like that was appropriate here because I referred to them in opening as modern day Santa Claus. Right. The UPS driver, the FedEx driver, the Amazon driver. Kids see the, you know, delivery, that's. That's fun for them, right? That's the modern day Santa Claus. There was really nothing in his history that indicated that there would be this level of violence. Violence. Right. There wasn't. You know, sometimes we have serial killers. You can look back in their history and see that they may have abused animals or they had some type of odd sexual interest or something like that. If you read the John Wayne Gacy files and things on that, There were some very odd things in his past as a child that came up. Nothing like that here. We did have, I think y' all saw there was a couple of victims that testified that he had been inappropriate with them when they were 16, when they had been drinking. So that was kind of a little red flag. We didn't know about that because they didn't come forward until this case happened. There was really nothing that came out in his history, to be honest with you. He'd never been arrested for a violent crime. He had some little brushes with the law, but really nothing that would have indicated that this was going to happen. Right. And I think that's what really ought to scare you.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Yes, absolutely.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

This is what ought to be most horrifying. I mean, if you just walked out into the community and you saw him out there in his FedEx thing, you wouldn't spot him as being. We do now. Right. Because we know everything about him. But before that, you wouldn't have spotted him. He was just a regular FedEx driver.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Yeah. It seems like this, that this is something that couldn't really have been prevented because it seems like all of his behaviors ahead of time never really indicated something this dire would ever happen.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Well, I don't know about prevented now. I do think with the camera covering and some of the stuff going on, I think it really opened the eyes of a lot of these delivery companies to have a lot better supervision over what their employees are doing. I think, you know, most of these companies operate a very large business. And remember, the truck that was being driven was not actually owned by FedEx. It was a contract company. But I think that this case, if there's maybe some good to come out of it, is that they're like, hey, we need to be more active in our role as, you know, if a camera gets covered up, we need to know, right? Because had that happened, right, had that technology, and I don't know anything about technology, but if there is technology that says, hey, the camera is covered up, if we knew that the day before, like, hey, dude, why are you covering up the camera? What's going on with your world, man? What's happening here? What's going on? Does that make a difference? Possibly. But with him, I can't honestly say that there were any of these dramatic red flags. I think anybody could Monday morning quarterback this and say, oh, well, there's this or there's this. But truthfully, we know everything about his life from basically birth forward. You know about it from trial. He had a rough upbringing. His. His mother is a felon and drug user. He grew up with his grandparents. He may have had some struggles in school. We don't really know the extent of that. That was a topic of contention as to really how difficult he had a time in school or whether or not it was just because he was lazy. Right. Some kids do well in school, some kids don't. So I think that there was different things, but there was nothing that would have said, hey, tomorrow this guy's gonna kidnap and murder a child. I don't think there was anything just broadcast like that. No.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

I want to go back to the courtroom. Closing arguments are done, and it's time for the verdict to be read, which can be a very anxious moment.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

You think, well, what went through your mind as that verdict was being read and what was the mood in the courtroom?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I think it's twofold. And this is what I told the local media. I'm never, ever going to celebrate the death of anyone of any human. I'm never going to do that. But in this case, I knew when I sat down that I had done everything that I possibly could do in this case. I knew that I'd given it 110%. My lawyers had given it 110%. My staff had given it 110%. There was no stone unturned. So whatever the jury was going to do, they were going to do. And if they believe the defense, that he had all these deficits and problems and that's where they were going to go, fine. But it wasn't going to be because I didn't do the very best work I could possibly do. My staff didn't do the very best work. So I just put my head down. I knew where my faith was. I knew where my wife was. But when I put my head down, I said, listen, this is going to be how it's going to be. And I didn't look up. If you saw the video, I just had my head down, and I just said, however it's going to be. And when the judge read it, I thought I was going to have elation or happiness. I thought that I was going to feel some kind of butterflies in my stomach. I thought I was going to feel that way. I didn't. It was cold. I didn't have any feeling. I didn't have any of that. I didn't. I mean, obviously I was sad because the mother malem sitting behind me, but it wasn't the feeling that I anticipated. It was cold. I just sat there and I was very thankful that the jury. I believe that justice was done. Don't get me wrong here. I don't have a problem with the state of Texas executing Tanner Horner. That is not a problem for me in any form or fashion. I do believe that that's justice. I have no doubts about that in my mind. In this case, I believe that's absolutely justice for that family, for Athena. I didn't have any doubt about it. But my own feeling of, you know, like, when I win a case, you know, or I get a verdict for a sexual assault victim, I feel some, you know, elation because I'm like, you know what? This guy's going to go to prison. He can't hurt anybody again. I can look at that little girl in the eyes and hug her, and I can say, I got you. You know, I got you. That wasn't the deal here. It was. It was a very. It was. It was not what I expected.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Do you think that's just, you know, just the depravity of the. The whole situation and the fact that, you know, while you do have this verdict, nothing will ever bring Athena back and nothing will ever save her from going through that.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I would take this jury verdict away in a heartbeat just to bring her back. It's one of those things. I mean, would you be willing to turn him loose on the street to bring her back? That's what you ask yourself. On those late nights when I'm here at 2:30 in the morning banging away on my computer and my wife and kids are at the house and, and I'm here just cranking away. Do you just think to yourself, hey, was there anything we could do? You know, how do I get that smiling face back? And I know it's never going to come back, but it's just such a tragedy and such a loss that I can't. You just can't fathom it. And it wasn't what I expected. Now, was I happy for the family that I hugged Athena's mom? Absolutely. And I'm not a hugger. We joke about that. I'm not. I don't. I still have Covid rules. I'm not a. I mean, I love my wife, but she'll tell you I'm not a hugger. In fact, Maitland jokes with me about that, that she finally got a hug out of me, but it was not what I expected.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

How does a crime like this affect your community?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Oh, geez. You know, I've had a lot of people tell me that their kids, like if you go to the school and you go to Athena school, you heard Ms. Thompson testify, there's still kids who have problems because they know now they're all in the fourth grade, they know what happened to her. They're old enough to understand that a bad man did a really bad thing to your classmate. And it's hard for them. So that's where it starts, is with those kids, because they're not adults. They don't have the same ability to process things like we do. And they're hurting and they're still hurting that community. You know, she'd be class of 2033. You know, you think about that she's not going to graduate with our class. And it's just really sad. There are a lot of parents who have told me, I don't let my kids play outside in the front yard anymore. Man, that is a sad, sad state of affairs. I think it scared a lot of people and there are a lot of bad things that go on. But out here in the country where we live, nothing bad happens. We play outside. Our kids still ride their bicycles up and down the street. If you could drive down Athena's Road, there's nothing there. There are post oaks and mesquite trees. And there's just nice people, you know, people that help each other, people that you know will fix your fence for you. And that's what our community is. That's what Wise county is. Now I have two counties. I have Wise county, and I also have Jack county to the west. I have two counties that I handle. But the people in both of my counties are just the very best people. I mean, and it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. It doesn't matter what your demographic is or what your religion is. It doesn't matter out here. We still change people's tires. We still stop on the side of the road. We still fix people's fence. We still do that. And I don't know. I don't want that to change. But a lot of people have said we're just scared. And I don't blame it. If you're a mom with a little child, it's hard.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Yeah. It seems like it's a beautiful place. And it's such a shame to have this now mark on what seems like a beautiful community.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

It is. But I will say this. You know, you talked about a community. This community came together by the hundreds when she went missing. By the hundreds. They had hundreds of people that went days without sleep. My ranger didn't sleep for three days. My investigator on the case from the sheriff's office didn't sleep for three days. Everybody was literally running around in the woods knowing that we're just going to find her. That's what we do out here, and it's wonderful. We didn't find her and we had to have a bad result. But if you saw the memorial for her that's out there where she was. Her body was dumped in the water. I went out there last Wednesday. It was after the verdict. I needed some closure, and so I went out there and I sat in the rain for two hours. Closure. It's a community. And did y' all see the picture of the courthouse? They lit the quarter house up pink. Oh, you need to look it up.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

That's beautiful.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

But that's what we do out here.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Now that this whole case is over, do you have any final thoughts on the entire ordeal?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

My hope is that. And that's why I'm doing this today. I'm not a media guy. My county judge is our media guy. He's so good at it. He gets and speaks in front of People, I'm not as good at it as he is. I do okay because I'm chatty by nature.

[Maitland Gandy (Athena's Mother)]

You're great.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I'm very chatty.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Oh, you're doing great.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

But this stuff like this, I don't seek it out. And I like to be a trial lawyer. I joke with people all the time. When I retire and people forget my name, I'm okay with that. That's. That's okay with me. I don't need a courthouse named after me. I don't need a courtroom named after me. When I walk away from this chair and somebody else takes it and you forget who I am in two years, I'm fine with that. That's not what I'm looking for. But I will say this. If something good can come out of this, I'm hopeful that doing maybe. You know, I've got a couple of podcasts I'm supposed to do and, and they're a little hard for me to do because I got to talk about the case again, so. But I'm hoping something good can come out of it. Like Athena's mom has her foundation. It's a website, it's as army athenastrandsarmy.com and so she's got a non profit where they take donations and they provide them to families of people who have had a child murdered or maybe to law enforcement. And it's a really great website. And I feel like we as a community, I think in the United States, I think we're still a giving country. I think for people who really in need, I feel like we're a giving country. And if something good happens with that and maybe that we can pass the forward. That's what my hope is. And maybe for me as a lawyer, my hope is, is that I can take what I've learned and give it to other prosecutors. Because a lot of times in Texas, a lot of times we don't think we have the resources. I mean, this is millions of dollars to get spent on this case. But I think there are some people like me that are elected, that have never done this, that are scared of it. They're scared of making a mistake. They're scared. And there's so many pitfalls. There are hundreds of pitfalls to screw this thing up. And that's good. Before we send somebody to death, we want to do it better than all of our other cases. Not that we would do our other cases bad, but we want to be. I mean, if we're going to give somebody the ultimate punishment, they need the ultimate Due process. That's the way we should work in the United States. I mean, we're not Somalia. We're not, you know, one of these countries where they chop your hands off. That's not what we do. We're better than that in the United States. I think we are. And I feel like if I can go to some of these other prosecutors and go, listen, if you get one of these cases, you can do it, and you can face your community and you can do it. If I can do it, I assure you, anybody else can. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. I do okay, and I'm a pretty good trial lawyer. But there are a lot of really smart lawyers out there, and I've got a lot that back my play for this case. I've got a lot of people in my background that have really backed me, and they're really smart people. I do okay in front of a jury. That's my superpower. But, you know, when it comes to these guys that are just really smart people, I'm not that guy.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

No, but you did. You did absolutely great.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I mean, thank you.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

I mean, you got. You got justice.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

And my last question. What should people remember about Athena?

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Oh, there's a lot to remember. I think less about the case. Let's not talk about him. Let's not talk about the case. Let's not talk about what happened to her. I mean, if you want to Google that and look it up, go down that rabbit hole if you want to, but let's look at the. The other side of it. You know, that's what I do, and that's what I want people to do, is don't. I mean, yeah, he's going to get executed in Texas. It's coming because we are serious about it in Texas. If we put you on death row, we're going to execute you. We don't play around in Texas with that. I think most people understand that, but that's not the story. The story is the picture I showed you. That's the story. And that's what I want people to remember, is don't remember him. And you can Google all of that stuff all you want, but he's a joke. I mean, he's a nobody. And he's going to get his justice. The thing that'll make you smile is, look at those pictures of her. I put up a picture during the first grade teacher Ms. Thompson's testimony, and y' all may have seen that, and it was. I call it the hocus pocus picture. Because that's what it said on her little shirt. But she had a really funny grin on her face. And I just liked it because it kind of looked mischievous. It kind of looked, you know, like. You know, looked like Athena. Like she was, you know, the family described her as being a little wild with a little feral, a little outdoor. And she had this little smirk on her face. And I just loved it. I loved the picture. And that was the picture that Ms. Thompson picked out as well. She said, I want that picture. And I said, okay. And then I didn't know the story behind it. And so when Athena's mom took the stand, of course we worked that up. We talked a lot before that about what she wanted to say. Like, I wanted to make sure I did not miss her message. I didn't care about the verdict. The verdict was irrelevant. I had to make sure that whatever mom wanted to say, that we got it perfect. And I mean, as perfect as I could get. And I took out that picture, and she kind of laughed, and I was like, what's that? And she told the story. And it was because they were at a Mexican food restaurant, and I guess she had a drink, and it had an orange on, and it. It. And she was taking a picture, and she had the orange around her teeth and was smiling so you could see the orange. And so mom got in her business about it, and so she just closed her mouth like this and still had the orange in it. So when that picture was taken, the orange is still in her mouth when she's taking the picture. And so that was the whole story. Now, nobody knew that story. First grade teacher didn't know that story. I didn't know that story until that came out. And it was just so beautiful. And if you ask me what you want to remember, that's what you want to remember. You need to listen if you want to remember anything about this case. Listen to Mom's testimony and listen to Dad's testimony. If that's the only two things you listen to about this case, those are the two things. Don't listen to my opening. Don't listen to my closing. Don't listen to any of those defense expert. Don't listen to any of that stuff. That's the orange story, and I love it. That made me smile.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Thank you for sharing that. We really appreciate it. James, thank you so, so much. I know that it's difficult to revisit such a.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

It's a little rugged. I wasn't expecting to be that difficult.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

No. But thank you. Thank you so much. And I know it's a busy time for you. So thank you for joining us and helping to explain it all to our audience. And we really hope that there's now some measure of peace for Athena's family.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

I think that it's a day by day, I feel like you have to get up. I don't have a choice. If you don't know this, we had unfortunately had two murders that occurred in my county during the middle of this trial that I had to take the grand jury and meet with those families in the middle of this trial. And you have to be dedicated to him. You have to understand and listen and be part of that. So I think for me it's just, you know, I don't have an off switch. There are people that depend on me and I tell people all the time it was easy. Everybody would do it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

And it's not easy.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

We thank you for your work. So that's it for today.

[Podcast Host (Trial USA)]

We'll be back with a new episode next Wednesday. The Trial USA is part of the Crime Desk. Subscribers can listen ad free, get early access to new shows, full access to the archive and the member only podcast the trial. Plus visit thecrimedesk.com to find out more. A link is in the Show Notes. Follow us on TikTok at the crime Desk and on Instagram he Trial Pod. Leave a comment on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or send us a voice note on WhatsApp [phone]. Start your message with the word Trial.

[Acast Promo Voice]

Acast powers the World's best Podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Podcast Host (Crime Desk)]

Do you like being educated on things to entertain but don't matter? Well, then you need to be listening to the Podcast with Knox and Jamie. Every Wednesday we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff.

[Jamie (Podcast with Knox and Jamie)]

Whether we're deep diving a classic movie, dissecting the true meanings behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories, we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye. And we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies, books, TV shows or music.

[Podcast Host (Crime Desk)]

To find out more, just search up the Podcast with Knox and Jamie wherever you listen to podcast and prepare to make Wednesday your new favorite day of the week.

[Acast Promo Voice]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Rails to Trails Conservancy Promo Voice]

Acast.com being outside is good for us. It's that simple and trails make it easy for us to walk, bike and be active outside in our own backyards. On the trail we see people moving, connecting with their communities, making making the places where they live great. For 40 years, Rails 2 Trails Conservancy has led the way, creating trails across the country, making it safer and easier for everyone to get outside. They want you to get involved. Find your trail and start your journey today at railstotrails.org iheart and follow RailsToTrails

[VRBO Promo Voice]

on social book a loved by guest property with VRBO and you get a top rated vacation rental that's loved for all the right reasons like being in a great location or having great amenities.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Ugh. I love my VRBO for the view.

[VRBO Promo Voice]

Good reason.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Ooh, and the sauna.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Sweet.

[VRBO Promo Voice]

Another good reason.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

And that it's one of those good

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

saunas with the hot rock thing.

[Interviewer (Kayla Brantley)]

Ugh.

[James Stainton (Wise County District Attorney)]

Love a good hot rock thing. Fancy.

[VRBO Promo Voice]

That's also a reason. Don't worry about surprises. Book a VRBO you'll love with the Love by guess filter if you know you verbo.