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The Triple Option
Inside the College Sports Exec Order, Big Ten vs SEC Debate, and Who Owns Friday Nights?
00:27:49
Inside the College Sports Exec Order, Big Ten vs SEC Debate, and Who Owns Friday Nights?
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- [00:00]
Urban Meyer
How about the term faster associated with the Big Ten? That was the thick ankle comment for years about the Big Ten.
- [00:06]
Rob Stone
The cankles. The cankle conversation is back. The triple option is presented by Wendy's. Wendy's invented the spicy chicken sandwich and now we're reinventing it, making it crispier than ever before. Wendy's spicy chicken. We're so back. Hey, welcome to another edition of the triple option. He's Urban Meyer showing off the biceps this week because Mark Ingram isn't here. So coach has to pick up. Yeah, coach got to pick up the slack. I'm Rob Stone. Glad you're with us. Well, the biggest news in college football this week came courtesy of the White House, a commissioner and a major booster having a bit of a duel over what should be happening on Friday nights in Texas in the fall. And have the Big Ten and the SEC actually changed identities? Coach, you're gonna have a fascinating take on this one. You've seen it firsthand, as always. We'd love it when you can rate, subscribe, send us your questions. We can be found on social media at 3X options. Show new episodes coming your way on YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. All right, so the big news this week, Coach, came courtesy of the White House. Friday, late afternoon, the president signed an executive order that directs the NCAA to create rules that mandate college athletes can play for no more than a five year period and allows them to transfer schools one time before they graduate without a penalty. So without having to sit out a season, the rule changes scheduled to go into effect August 1st, that's an important date. We'll get to that in a second. And a school that plays an athlete who does not meet these new limits could risk losing their federal funding. All right, so that's just the quick snapshot of everything that transpired. So let's start breaking it down. Coach, let's talk about five year period. Why five years? Makes sense.
- [02:02]
Urban Meyer
Yeah. Hey, Rob, let's first talk about timing. When I he, when I say he, President Trump released this and his staff on Friday, 4pm or something like that, if I remember. And that was right when, I mean, one of the biggest weekends of the year as far as viewership of college anything. And that's the final Four. And by the way, what incredible Final Four. But so the timing and then also just a quick refresher, we all had 50, I think it was 50 people met. I was fortunate enough to be one of them. We sat in the White House and had the commission group of people sitting there from all the conference commissioners, you had Marco Rubio, Speaker Johnson, Ted Cruz, Governor DeSantis and other political figures, donors, former ADs, and a couple coaches were in there. And so we kind of knew this was coming. This was in executive orders. And this, I don't, I'm not an expert at this, but executive orders are going to get challenged immediately, legally, and they're lined up as we speak. So.
- [03:03]
Rob Stone
And they knew that, right, Coach? They knew that was coming.
- [03:05]
Urban Meyer
I think this was done to educate the world on what our, what is the focus if we do get things passed, which we can get to in a minute, it's all going to be about the, the antitrust exemption. If that can happen, so that you can set rules and enforce rules. If that doesn't happen, then this executive order will get, get litigated immediately. But back to your question, about five years, I think there's a couple hotspots here. Eligibility is one of them. It's very near consensus of the people I spoke to in that room that it should just be a five for five. The minute you enroll in a college, your clock starts. And the minute five years are up, you have to move on.
- [03:43]
Rob Stone
I want to hit a timeout real fast because the old school, like when I, I was playing soccer, Colgate, it was four years, right? That was just four years has always been the number I got. Three kids are going to be in college next year. They've been told you have four years to get out of college. Right? So why, why is everybody comfortable now with five years?
- [04:02]
Urban Meyer
I think it's been that way for a while. And I, I don't understand how that has not been passed. Because what's happened, Rob, the, when you hear the word red shirt, it's to give people that opportunity to mature. Because reality is, at that age, you know, some are very ready. The Jeremiah Smiths, there's no red shirt. Go play the Joe Burrow, Terry McLaurin, they had the red shirt. They just weren't quite ready. And that's part of it. So. But what happened is when I started coaching, it was four to play, five to play four. But then everybody, everything started changing. They could play four games, three games, 25% of the season, and that's just too chaotic. And again, if you have a rule, you have to enforce it five to five years to play five years and move on. And the only way you get your fifth year, which I believe is a great caveat, is that you have to graduate. So you get a degree, you get
- [04:49]
Rob Stone
that fifth year, bring the student back to Student athlete. Yeah, I like that. And that if you graduate as well coach, that grants you should you want it another transfer opportunity without being penalized. Right.
- [05:02]
Urban Meyer
Hotspot number two is the transfer portal where you get one free one and then you get one when you graduate. So you can, if you graduate college, you have two free opportunities. The free one after graduation, that was during my career. I remember when that was made. I think it's an excellent rule. I've seen so many players, even off our team, they weren't quite good enough and they went down a level and they had a great career and they played. So I think that's a great rule. The one that's not on there. If your coach leaves, you get another free one. That's going to be once again, all this, I keep saying this, all this. You can just spin your fingers because it's not going to happen unless you get some antitrust exemption.
- [05:42]
Rob Stone
Just to the coach thing. Do you agree with that? Coach leaves, you should get an opportunity to have a free transfer.
- [05:47]
Urban Meyer
I kind of do. I have to think it through more,
- [05:49]
Rob Stone
you know, okay, I, I 100% do. I 100% do. And a lot of the pushback will be, well, it's still a free market out there for the coaches and the
- [05:56]
Urban Meyer
ads and, you know, you brought up a hotspot. Okay, now let me throw this out at you. I wonder if there's a way. And our friend Jay Billis, who, very intelligent guy who was on our show, he brought up a lot of things that are a lot different. It's a different way of looking at it. But as he was talking, I was kind of making notes. And a lot of this would solve some problems. You know, in the NFL you can't change jobs. You can't leave and say, I'm going to go coach another pro. Matter of fact, an assistant coach can't. I don't know if you knew that. You can if you elevate. But if I'm the offense coordinator of a professional football team, I can't leave and go to another job because I have something called a contract. I've always wondered why in college sports. And I did it, 1, 2, 3, 4. Four different jobs I had, I broke the contract. And at some places, I think all of them had a little buyout and the school pays a buyout and you move on. I wonder if there's a way again if you get antitrust exemptions saying, yeah, that, that stops. That stops it. A coach cannot leave for another program unless he gets allowed to in his contract that I can go, which you talk about some serious negotiating going on. That would solve a lot of problems too. And I agreed with Jay Billis on that.
- [07:09]
Rob Stone
The August 1st date. This is when it's supposed to take effect. Two points. Let's start with the easy one. Is that enough time, should it happen? Is that enough time for all these universities to understand and accept what it is going forward?
- [07:25]
Urban Meyer
This is such great stuff. So I also had lunch with the High. I'm not going to say the name because I don't, but I spoke to this person about just the political process because this is very intriguing to me. He made the comment that after August this all has to be done because you have the midterm elections coming and all focus of Congress will be if you're a congressman or woman, you're trying to get reelected because it's only two year terms. Some senators also have to be reelected. All focus will be on the midterm elections and you'll see a complete standstill in the political arena as far as getting things passed. So that's why there's a huge push to get some acceleration on these things and have it done by August.
- [08:12]
Rob Stone
If it is done by August, is that enough time for these universities though to pivot and understand what the new world order is?
- [08:18]
Urban Meyer
Yeah, I've said this all along. The complexity of this thing is not the rules. Rules are pretty simple. I mean, you have to agree on them. And the other piece is you have to have student athlete engagement in this too. At some point there's going to have to be a student athlete committee and another committee and this can have to be cooperated or the chance of this, like the likelihood passing and getting seven Democrats to agree with this, to get to the 60 before August, I've heard, is almost zero unless you have student athlete involvement.
- [08:51]
Rob Stone
So why not get student athlete involvement going right now? Or is that one of the next steps?
- [08:56]
Urban Meyer
I think that's going on as we speak.
- [08:57]
Rob Stone
Okay. I'm not here to poke holes in it. So I'm curious, you know, maybe what are some of the concerns you have? Like this one, this one's going to be tough. This one's going to be a battle. Or, and, or what else needs to be kind of added to this just to refine it, to sweeten it.
- [09:14]
Urban Meyer
Yeah, there's a whole slew of things that you can start talking about, the scheduling and when the season starts, you know, and do we start week zero? Do we? Do I, I think personally, once you get past the NIL the eliminate, which we did not cover, this elimination of the collectives and make it legitimate nil opportunities for all student athletes. Once you hit the transfer portal and the eligibility piece, I think everything else, you can press pause and you can slowly implement those along the journey. But the immediacy of them right now, eligibility, transfer and the collective, the nlip. So if you get those done, then you can slowly start going through the bot the rest of the items.
- [09:55]
Rob Stone
What's the percentage chance that this executive order, as it's written and read right now, gets through and works?
- [10:03]
Urban Meyer
That's a good question. That's something I'm not prepared to answer. I would say minimal because of litigation, but there's some experts out there that can answer that.
- [10:13]
Rob Stone
So do you think there's enough time between here we are in early April into the beginning of August to refine this and find a common ground and make it work?
- [10:23]
Urban Meyer
I do. And the last person I had lunch with, who knows more than anyone, was very optimistic, which shocked me because he wasn't in the, in the 50 in the white House. He was not. And he says we've got some momentum right now. And there's, there's a score act that's out there and the score act is basically, is very similar to what was said with some other points in there by the executive order that's out there right now that they're trying to get past.
- [10:51]
Rob Stone
Last thing. So much of this conversation in all college athletic conversations, right, it's, it's kind of focused on the big boys, if you will, right? College football, men's and women's basketball, maybe a little baseball here and there. But a real focus of the president and a lot of people behind the scenes is not the big sports, it's the non rev sports. Right. It's the Olympic sports that they care about as well.
- [11:12]
Urban Meyer
And that's a huge priority of President Trump. But also everybody in the room and who would not say that, you know, who, you know, you're, you've done it. Rob, I'm trying to think. Everybody I know, the majority of people I've come in contact in my life have been, have had impacted by team sport or college sports, either them or their children. My two daughters played college volleyball. If I can have any fight in that, I cannot imagine that's not on the forefront.
- [11:41]
Rob Stone
Not for nothing, coach kind of sounded like Senator Meyer during this conversation.
- [11:47]
Urban Meyer
No chance.
- [11:52]
Rob Stone
Never say never. That was the fresh take of the week, presented by Wendy's. Wendy's new spicy chicken sandwich is crispier Crunchier and more flavor packed than ever. Wendy's. We're so back. And when we come back, is the big ten faster than the sec. Somebody said, I saw that. Yes.
- [12:14]
Urban Meyer
Light it.
- [12:19]
Rob Stone
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- [12:34]
Urban Meyer
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- [12:48]
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- [13:12]
Rob Stone
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- [13:48]
Urban Meyer
That split second of distraction can throw off everything. Your reaction time, your awareness, your ability to avoid someone else's mistake. You could damage your car, injure yourself, or hurt someone you care about. Or you could get pulled over for a reminder that your phone isn't worth the risk.
- [14:06]
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- [14:18]
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- [14:48]
Rob Stone
Welcome back to the Triple option. Stay ready Presented by nhtsa. One glance at your phone while driving can cost you A ticket or a crash. Put the phone away or pay paid for by nhtsa. Always great messages from our partners at nhtsa. Well, here's some spring ball news, coach. And this one caught our attention. Right. Defensive tackle James Smith, one of the top transfers in the transfer portal cycle, left Alabama for Ohio State. Here's where he had to stay. Here's the quote. The intensity is almost like everything is so much faster in the Big Ten right there alone. We could talk for. For an hour, but he goes on in the sec. We're big and kind of slower. He here in the tent, it's faster, more speed. We're trying to wear an opponent down. The intensity is different. Everything's so intentional.
- [15:40]
Urban Meyer
Goodness gracious.
- [15:41]
Rob Stone
Bama to Ohio State. And he's only been there for, you know, a handful of days.
- [15:45]
Urban Meyer
How about the term faster associated with a Big Ten instead of the sec? And it said this it we're big and kind of slower. And that was the thick ankle comment for years about the Big Ten. The big thick ankles. Yeah, the cakele conversation. And I witnessed it, man. That is. That is really a transition. I mean that is a power shift coming from a player that's experienced both. So I'm sure every Big Ten school has that placated on or put on a text message, email or whatever to recruits across the country. Right now that's phenomenal because. Because Rob 2012 we took a job in Columbus, Ohio in Shelly Meyer and even myself. I remember the first practice. What in the world is this? When you're starting to compare the speed and athleticism on the field compared to the fcc and it was not even close. But the bowl games and playoffs this year kind of proved it. Iowa beat Vandy, Illinois beat Tennessee. Indiana throttled Bama. Georgia and Ole Miss. Ole Miss beat Georgia. But then Miami beats Ole Miss and then. But Miami beat Ole Miss and A and M for. And now here's where you keep going down the line. This would have never happened. Virginia beat Missouri. Houston, Houston beat lsu and the old Wake Forest team beat Mississippi State.
- [17:12]
Rob Stone
So yeah, when you, when you, when you speed, you think Wake Forest, right, coach? Right. The Demon Deacons just lightning can you what is going on.
- [17:21]
Urban Meyer
But you can see it on film at times too. You really can.
- [17:24]
Rob Stone
So is it obvious to you? Do you agree with the assessment?
- [17:27]
Urban Meyer
I think every year is a different year. But I thought, you know, there was a time last year mid season I remember obviously we had Mark Ingram on the show too that I just, I just have so much respect. I live that SEC world. And I've never seen bigger, stronger, faster human beings on the planet. It's transitioned. You got to give a lot of credit to these, the investment in the programs in the Big Ten. And I'm going to tell you this, I might upset some people in 2012, that was not the case. It was not. The stadiums were not that difficult. The opponents, there were some great players, just not a lot of them. But you look at it right now, there's draft pick after draft pick after draft pick. And I'm not, I'm just not talking about Ohio State, all of them.
- [18:06]
Rob Stone
So what changed?
- [18:08]
Urban Meyer
Investment and competitive spirit. And I'd like to think we at Ohio State were a big part of that. We, we went from saying, let's compete in a Big Ten. And I did. I said that to our staff and everybody said, we are no longer. We are. You called it the chase. You know who we were chasing? Alabama in 2012. We went undefeated and I went down and watched Alabama just beat the mess out of Notre Dame. And I said that our team would get crushed by Alabama. And I challenged every player that night on the phone, every coach. And we quit recruiting. We recruited nationally from that point forward. And so we're going to go get the best players, not just the local players.
- [18:49]
Rob Stone
There's a lot of people out there, Coach, that will say the chase changed when everything had to be on the up and up, if you know what I mean. Yeah, right.
- [19:00]
Urban Meyer
I hear that too.
- [19:01]
Rob Stone
There's a lot of conversations that there are certain institutions in certain parts of the country that were doing.
- [19:09]
Urban Meyer
Do you think that's true?
- [19:10]
Rob Stone
I think there's a big part of it that's true.
- [19:12]
Urban Meyer
Yeah, I'd probably agree with that.
- [19:13]
Rob Stone
Yeah, you're a little bit closer to it than me, but I, I think.
- [19:17]
Urban Meyer
I don't know that for a fact.
- [19:18]
Rob Stone
I don't want to be correct accusations,
- [19:20]
Urban Meyer
because that's so hard, you know, But I mean, why else? Think, think about the, you know, I think investment's a big part of it.
- [19:28]
Rob Stone
100% agree.
- [19:29]
Urban Meyer
I think investment in coaching. The Big Ten's got some strong ass coaches in that conference right now.
- [19:36]
Rob Stone
They want to get to the NFL, come to the Big Ten.
- [19:38]
Urban Meyer
Yeah,
- [19:40]
Rob Stone
I remember those old days, Coach, when you took over Ohio State and when the Big Ten was as a whole was slow and lethargic and the grass always seemed to be thick, right. And heavy. And like whenever I looked at Purdue, I was like, oh, these guys just kind of lumbering through. And, and whenever the Big Ten got matched up with the SEC in a bowl game.
- [20:02]
Urban Meyer
It was bad.
- [20:03]
Rob Stone
It was bad news, man. It was bad news. And now we look at this list and it's not even just Big Ten teams taking.
- [20:10]
Urban Meyer
Well, I think about this, Rob. I was at Florida. We played Ohio State in the Nash Championship in 06 and Ohio State was favored to win that game, I think over a touchdown favorite. And on video you start watching and I mean obviously when I started watching 40 days from it, I'm thinking we can't beat this team. There's no chance of Teddy Ginn. They have the, the phenomenal football team. Troy Smith, the Heisman Trophy winner. No chance. And then as you got closer and closer after watching that film after film after film, we were playing Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, lsu and they weren't playing those teams. And we, we were, we were war ready because we weathered the, that, that schedule. You can say that no longer the Big Ten is, we're ready now. When they get to that final game, they've won the last three of them. It's a phenomena. It really is.
- [21:02]
Rob Stone
You know who also is getting a little bit faster, a little bit edgier, a little bit twitchier? The Big 12. Watch out for the Big 12. And coming up next, we're going to take you to Lubbock, Texas where one of the nation's most notable donors is at odds coach with our friend the Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark.
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- [22:57]
Rob Stone
Welcome back to the triple option presented by Wendy's the coach Urban Meyer. Rob Stone back here with you. This past week, Texas Tech booster, chairman of the Board of Regents outspoken Cody Campbell. Cody coach he took to social media, delivered a doozy. Here we go. Quote Friday Night lights are sacred in the great state of Texas. It is absolutely absurd that the Big 12 and Fox Sports would consider scheduling Texas Tech and Houston on a Friday night, October 18th. I know that Brett Yourmark, the commissioner of the Big 12 is not a native Texan, but he's been here long enough to know better. Come on, man.
- [23:40]
Urban Meyer
Wow.
- [23:40]
Sean Duffy
Okay.
- [23:41]
Urban Meyer
I met Cody campbell at in D.C. obviously I've heard a bunch about him. Seemed like a hell of a guy. Very interested. Obviously. I think you said chairman of the board, right?
- [23:50]
Rob Stone
Yeah.
- [23:51]
Urban Meyer
I'll say this Board of Regents. I will say this. That I remember when that started the Thursday, Friday, you know, Friday games. Thursday used to be a big opportunity for schools when I was in the Mountain West Conference. I'm telling you University of Utah in 2004. I think we would have a great team but the country wouldn't have seen our team because you weren't watching Utah on Saturday, at least nationally.
- [24:15]
Rob Stone
Right.
- [24:16]
Urban Meyer
The world saw Alex Smith and in University of Utah and that was when we got we would play anywhere anytime to get that. So I get it. And I and but I also because I'm a traditionalist. I believe and I agree with Cody Campbell saying yeah Fridays are for high school football. But I hate to say this that as the commissioner of I think the SEC said it or some who oh no, the president of Alabama said it or the AD said the SEC championship game doesn't mean much anymore. Get rid of it and your heart starts to hurt. So the the world we knew where tradition where some great events are going to change for money, period. You can say whatever you want. When you when I saw the number about the viewership of the Big 12 Conference, Rob on a Friday night I get it. You have to you know you have to finance these schools.
- [25:11]
Rob Stone
Yeah, the heart hurts, but the heart also understands, you know, it's probably like when that. When that great girlfriend of yours breaks up and you're like, yeah, I knew this was coming. I knew this was coming. I. I put up a good fight. I hung in there as long as I could. But eventually we got to break up.
- [25:26]
Urban Meyer
So we had a time in the Big Ten conference when I was coach that came across that the. I think it was Fox or a network. It had to be Fox. Sure.
- [25:35]
Rob Stone
Friday night.
- [25:35]
Urban Meyer
You have to get Friday night football.
- [25:37]
Rob Stone
Yeah.
- [25:37]
Urban Meyer
And the state of Ohio said, we're not doing that. And I remember Gene Smith was her AD at the time and said, you know, we're going to do one a game, one game every five years or something like that. And I, you know, had a lot of things to worry about. Not that. So I moved on. But I remember letter after letter, the state high school association was pissed off. I get it.
- [25:56]
Rob Stone
Thursday nights you talked about how that helped you at Utah. Remember the great success Greg Shiano and Rutgers had? You know, they built themselves up with those Thursday night games. And then the Friday night games.
- [26:06]
Urban Meyer
Louisville, Louisville, Louisville.
- [26:08]
Rob Stone
Another really good one.
- [26:08]
Urban Meyer
Had some of those teams. Yeah. That was because you were not watching those teams back then on Saturdays. You weren't.
- [26:14]
Rob Stone
When there's all that other competition for the eyeballs out there. Right. So. So you've got these windows. So here's the commissioner's response. Brett, your mark. Question, quote. Cody Campbell does not run the Big 12.
- [26:27]
Urban Meyer
So he doesn't.
- [26:28]
Rob Stone
Correct. We know that he may run a lot of things, but he does not run the Big 12. We love Commissioner Yormark. Our board and our ads approved playing 12 games a year of Saturdays in an effort to raise the profile narrative and viewership of Big 12 football. Texas Tech hosting a primetime game on Friday night delivers that Friday night Big 12 football games outperformed the conference's average rating by 64%.
- [27:00]
Urban Meyer
Done.
- [27:00]
Rob Stone
2025 Conversation. Correct. All of our schools are treated equally during the TV scheduling process. And this game fits within our scheduling parameters.
- [27:13]
Urban Meyer
Game set, match, Friday night football. Big 12.
- [27:16]
Rob Stone
Numbers, exposure, eyeballs, designated window where all the focus is on you. And not just you, your program coach, but you, your conference.
- [27:29]
Urban Meyer
Yeah. Thursday. I'm going back to just personal experience. Thursday night football was a big event for college. I remember Herb street and Corso did our games. That's how big it was. And then something happened with that. You know what happened? Right. NFL took over Thursdays, so went away with the Big Games on Thursday evenings. They're not the big college football games anymore, but Friday, Yeah, that's, that's game, set, match Friday football.
- [27:53]
Rob Stone
I, I, I like 12, I like high level foot college football on Thursdays and Fridays. I, I miss those days. I mean there were some great Florida State games.
- [28:04]
Urban Meyer
Sure.
- [28:04]
Rob Stone
When they were running it on Thursday nights. And I think there was like that loss at Virginia where everybody storming the field. And again, some of that would have been lost if it was a noon game in Charlottesville. But if it's primetime Thursday night, did
- [28:17]
Urban Meyer
someone talk to the NFL about not taking over? Yeah, imagine that conversation. Don't take over Thursday. See you. They're like, listen, so Tuesday, Wednesday is the only night. Not really because Monday's obviously a big night.
- [28:29]
Rob Stone
Yeah. So the Mac has a lot of action there. And, and the Mac used to be great on Thursdays and Fridays and then they got kind of bumped to, to earlier in the week. Again, people are going to watch college football. You put it on. People are going to watch. And what we as a network do, we both work for Fox Sports. Right. We want as many eyeballs as possible. Do we want Ohio State on our air whether it's Friday or Saturday? Hell to the yeah, Absolutely we do. USC had a big Friday night game. It was parents weekend. The parents had to come in early for a Friday night game at USC last year. Yeah. Thank you, thank you for watching. We appreciate it. So yes, we know who runs the Big 12. That's you, Commissioner Ymark. I know who runs the triple option. That's you, Urban Meyer. That does it for the triple option this week. Follow subscribe rate us on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever it is you get those podcasts. We're on social media 3x option show. And as always, thanks to our wonderful sponsors NHTSA and Wendy's and we'll see you again next week on the triple option.