Michigan vs Ohio State, AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson join, #CFBPlayoff Rankings & Mack Brown Fired

Summary

The Triple Option Podcast Summary Episode: Michigan vs Ohio State, AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson Join, #CFBPlayoff Rankings & Mack Brown Fired
Release Date: November 27, 2024

Hosts: Urban Meyer, Mark Ingram II, Rob Stone
Guests: AJ Hawk, Charles Woodson
Presented by: Wendy’s

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1. College Football Playoff (CFP) Rankings and Playoff Implications

The episode kicks off with an in-depth analysis of the latest College Football Playoff rankings. Urban Meyer outlines the CFP structure, emphasizing that 12 teams will advance, with the five highest-ranked conference champions securing automatic bids and the remaining seven spots filled by the next highest-ranked teams.

Key Highlights:

• Significant Fluctuations: Mark Ingram notes, "10 teams fluctuated four or more spots in the top 25," including Clemson climbing five spots to number 12 but missing the playoff bracket.
• Indiana’s Surge: Despite a five-spot drop to number 10 after a loss, Mark expresses optimism, stating, "If you hadn't had those losses, they probably would have been on the outside looking in. But because of all the upsets, Indiana is in right now."
• Top Four Stability: The top four rankings remain unchanged with Oregon, Ohio State, Texas, and Penn State occupying the premier spots.

Notable Quote:

Mark Ingram [03:02]: "So right now Indiana is in. So that's a huge beneficiary of this, like, last movement, because if you hadn't had those losses, they probably would have been on the outside looking in."

2. Impact of Recent Upsets on Playoff Dynamics

The discussion delves into how recent upsets have reshuffled the playoff landscape, benefiting teams like Indiana and Tennessee while challenging traditional powerhouses.

Key Highlights:

• Tulane’s Potential: Urban Meyer highlights Tulane's rise, mentioning, "Tulane is lurking out there as that absolute bid stealer, tucked in right behind Arizona State."
• SEC’s Position: With teams like Alabama, Ole Miss, and South Carolina holding three losses each, there's speculation on their playoff viability despite high talent pools.
• Big 12 Chaos: The Big 12 remains unpredictable with "nine programs still alive," making title predictions exceedingly complex.

Notable Quote:

Urban Meyer [05:02]: "Insanity. We just all assumed, all right, the conference winner from the Big 12, the SEC, the SEC, the Big 10."

3. NIL and the Transfer Portal: Shifting College Football Dynamics

The hosts explore the ramifications of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) policies and the increasing activity within the transfer portal.

Key Highlights:

• Player Movement Concerns: Discussions revolve around star players like Shadow Sanders and Travis Hunter potentially transferring if they don't secure playoff spots, impacting team stability.
• Coaching Challenges: Mark Ingram raises concerns about coaching strategies shifting focus from player development to managing transfers and recruiting under NIL pressures.

Notable Quote:

Mark Ingram [21:08]: "Are your great players who are underclassmen going to enter the portal and go somewhere else because of this NIL in this new world where somebody might come and offer them more money?"

4. Coaching Changes and Leadership in College Football

A significant portion of the episode addresses the recent firing of Mack Brown from the University of North Carolina, highlighting his illustrious career and the reasons behind his departure.

Key Highlights:

• Mack Brown’s Legacy: Rob Stone pays homage to Brown’s achievements, noting his 282 wins and induction into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2018.
• Circumstances of Firing: The team endured a disappointing season with a significant loss to James Madison, leading to Brown’s dismissal despite his storied career.

Notable Quote:

Rob Stone [66:55]: "Mack Brown, thanks for everything you did for college. An awesome human being and let me tell you, North Carolina, that is a great job."

5. Guest Segment: AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson on the Michigan vs Ohio State Rivalry

The latter part of the podcast features former NFL players AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson, who provide their unique perspectives on the storied Michigan vs Ohio State rivalry.

Key Highlights:

• Personal Anecdotes: Charles Woodson shares his first memory of the rivalry, recalling a pivotal win that propelled Ohio State to a national championship.

  Charles Woodson [42:32]: "We knew we were going to the national championship after we beat Michigan 14 to 9. Like, talk about trust, old school ball control, defense."

• Mindset as Underdogs: AJ Hawk discusses the mentality of being underdogs in big games and how humility and resilience are crucial.

  AJ Hawk [28:33]: "What do you learn from this moment? Where do we go from here? Because this moment just ain't about football. It's about life."

• Impact of Coaching and Team Dynamics: Mark Ingram and Urban Meyer engage in light-hearted banter while discussing the importance of coaching philosophies and team cohesion in high-stakes games.

Notable Quotes:

AJ Hawk [28:33]: "What do you learn from this moment? Where do we go from here?"

Charles Woodson [44:16]: "We felt like, yeah, we want to be the spoilers. We want to mess up whatever they got going on."

6. Game Previews and Predictions

The hosts provide their insights and predictions for upcoming marquee matchups, including the Iron Bowl, Iowa State vs Kansas State, Clemson vs South Carolina, and Notre Dame vs USC.

Key Highlights:

• Iron Bowl Analysis: Mark Ingram highlights the unpredictability of the Auburn vs Alabama matchup despite Alabama being favored by 11.5 points.

  Mark Ingram [71:53]: "Three of the last five meetings between these two teams have been decided by three points or fewer. This is going to be a dog fight."

• Big 12 Turmoil: Urban Meyer and Rob Stone discuss the chaotic state of the Big 12, emphasizing the mathematical improbability of predicting the championship game with nine teams still alive.

• Rivalry Game Under the Microscope: The podcast scrutinizes Notre Dame vs USC, considering coaching changes and team performance metrics.

Notable Quote:

Rob Stone [75:32]: "How does a team go from one of the great teams of all time? Momentum on your side, they're going to cover. I think you're going to get better and better versions of Texas Longhorns as they run out this season."

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with reflections on the intensity of college football rivalries, the evolving nature of the sport due to policy changes like NIL, and the enduring legacy of legendary coaches like Mack Brown.

Key Highlights:

• Legacy and Future of Coaching: Emphasis on the need for balance between competitive success and personal well-being for coaches.
• Positive Outlook Amidst Chaos: Despite the unpredictability of rankings and playoff scenarios, the hosts express optimism about the passion and quality of college football games.

Notable Quote:

Urban Meyer [86:50]: "Absolutely, that is someone who you want your child to play for."

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This episode of The Triple Option offers a comprehensive exploration of the current state of college football, blending analytical discussions on rankings and playoff implications with personal insights from seasoned athletes like AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson. The conversation underscores the dynamic and often tumultuous nature of the sport, influenced by recent policy changes and coaching shifts, while celebrating the enduring passion and competitive spirit that define college football.

Transcript

[Mark Ingram]

Lambeau Field, my first game ever as a pro. We went to Lambeau Thursday night. Do y'all remember that play at the end of the game when my coach sent me up the middle and y'all D line cut my O line and y'all just had six people jump over the top and just stop me on the goal line and ruin my debut as a rookie, My dream as a rookie, y'all, y'all killed it.

[Rob Stone]

AJ did you get a little piece of that?

[Mark Ingram]

AJ Was right there jumping over the top.

[Charles Woodson]

If I didn't jump over and have something to do with that play, yeah, I would have been cut from the team probably. But yeah, it was a good one to win. I'm glad you didn't get in. Mark.

[Urban Meyer]

Light it. We welcome you to the Triple option presented by Wendy's. He's Mark Ingram. I'm Rob Stone. Make sure to try Wendy's new Saucy Nugs today. Whether you're joining us for the live stream watching later, remember, please rate subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts as well as across social media 3x option show. We got new episodes coming your way Wednesday. We're giving Coach Meyer the night off. He's worried about the big game this weekend. Michigan at Ohio State. Let's talk about the fourth edition of the College Football Playoff rankings. Mark, which just came in. Quick reminder on some of the rules. 12 teams advanced to the playoffs. The five highest ranked conference champions remember this. Five highest ranked conference champs get automatic bids. Remaining seven spots go to the next seven highest ranked teams. Four highest ranked conference champs get a first round by. So let's remember these conferences. It's going to come, it's going to come into play here.

[Mark Ingram]

It's coming into play off.

[Urban Meyer]

So I just, I know I see a moving and grooving. Let's go to the rankings. First off, my friend and man, holy fluctuation. This week, according to my math, 10 teams fluctuated four or more spots in the top 25. Eight programs fluctuated at least five spots. You see Clemson there at number 12, up five spots. But they are not in the playoff bracket. Boise State up one. They are in because right now they're your Mountain west leader. The big one we're going to talk about in a second. Indiana at number 10. They plummeted five spots after that 3815 loss at Ohio State. SMU up four spots at number nine. Tennessee, Georgia, Miami right now your ACC leader. They go up two spots. Notre Dame replaces Indiana at number five. The Independent at 10 and one overall, looking really good. They just have to avoid an upset at Southern Cal this weekend. And for the third straight week in a row, the top four unchanged. Oregon, Ohio State, Texas, Penn State, Oregon. They host Washington, Buckeyes hosts Michigan on fox. Texas at Texas A and M. And Penn State takes on Maryland. Mark, let's start with you, Indiana. Your reaction from IU dropping five spots all the way down to number 10.

[Mark Ingram]

I mean, I think if you're Indiana Hoosier, you are extremely happy with this because everyone talked about that Ohio State loss might kick you out. And they got their butt whooped. They got their butt whooped. They went to the Horseshoe. They got their butt whooped. So for them to only drop down 10 spots means that they're good for a lock in the playoff right now. So right now Indiana is in. So that's a huge beneficiary of this, like, last movement, because if you hadn't had those losses, they probably would have been on the outside looking in. But because all the upsets we saw last weekend, Indiana is in right now. Tennessee was the first team out last week. They are in right now because of all the upsets. So they have to go to Vanderbilt this week. So, Vandy, let's go. Cause I need my tied second team out to somehow get back into this race.

[Urban Meyer]

Hey, man, Vandy can do it, man. They've caused problems this season, so.

[Mark Ingram]

Oh, you're back.

[Urban Meyer]

I'm back, baby.

[Mark Ingram]

Let's go. I was like, I wasn't gonna get my friend, but yes, Vandy, we're already down one.

[Urban Meyer]

You can't be down two.

[Mark Ingram]

Tennessee has to go to Vandy. Let's go. Let's go, Vandy. Notre Dame, they have to go to usc. Fight on, Trojans. Let's go. But hey, Stoner, what I'm thinking, you're.

[Urban Meyer]

Like a hater right now, man. You're just looking for less.

[Mark Ingram]

Go.

[Urban Meyer]

We had chaos last Saturday. Who's to say we're not going to get another dose of it, particularly on rivalry weekend. Right, But.

[Mark Ingram]

But. But particularly on rivalry weekend. But the most strange thing is up in these upper teens right here, Stoner, you got Arizona State as the Big 12 leader. They're ranked number 16, but they.

[Urban Meyer]

There they are, number 12 in the bracket.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes, number 12 as. But they're the number 16 for 18. But since they're the Big 12 champ. As of now.

[Urban Meyer]

As of now.

[Mark Ingram]

As of now, they get the birth.

[Urban Meyer]

But they were up five spots to number 16. A huge move for them.

[Mark Ingram]

Look who look who was on that booty. That two lane roll wave. So they could block out the Big 12 altogether. You said it's the five highest ranked conference champs.

[Urban Meyer]

Bingo.

[Mark Ingram]

Bingo. If two lane ends up higher ranked than the Big 12, they block out the Big 12 and the Big 12 doesn't get an automatic bid.

[Urban Meyer]

Insanity, Insanity. We just all assumed, all right, the conference winner from the Big 12, the SEC, the SEC, the Big 10. Right. Those are going to be the four and then everybody else will figure it out. Right? Like for you, Boise State in the Mountain West. But Tulane is legit, legit. Up three spots there at 9 and 2. They host a fellow 9 and 2 Memphis side on Thursday. Right. So Thanksgiving Day. And they've already advanced to the AAC championship game. There are two losses. They lost at home to Kansas State by seven points. And then the next game, a 15 point loss in Norman to Oklahoma. So Tulane is lurking out there as that absolute bid stealer, tucked in right behind Arizona State.

[Mark Ingram]

And you think that's the rank for the aac? You think that's two quality losses for you?

[Urban Meyer]

Yes.

[Mark Ingram]

Kansas State, who is ranked 24 right now in Oklahoma, who just put the.

[Urban Meyer]

Pounding on my, you know what's better than quality losses? Quality wins, my friend. You know, I find interesting right underneath the top 12. I know we're looking at the bracket right now, but tucked Underneath that top 12, and you mentioned it, Alabama, three losses at 13. Ole miss three losses, sitting at 14. South Carolina three losses, sitting there at 15. I feel like the visual is the committee is setting things up where if there is just enough movement, just enough chaos, they get in that one of those three losses. SEC teams is sitting there on the doorstep, knocking, saying, I got some flowers, I got some homemade pie. Why don't you let me in? I'd love to be a good host here on this Thanksgiving. So I find that really, really interesting. Of course, you know, Alabama, Ole Miss, South Carolina have to take care of their own business. And for South Carolina at Clemson, Clemson, Clemson sitting there at number 12, up five spots, two losses. So South Carolina, number one value that highly, right. At number 15. If Clemson is to beat them, that's a really good win.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes.

[Urban Meyer]

Right. So now all of a sudden, instead of maybe just one ACC team, you're saying, wait a second, there is a chance three.

[Mark Ingram]

There's three. Yes, there's two.

[Urban Meyer]

Right now. Right, right now in the bracket we have SMU sitting there as, as a 10 seed though, as the 10 seed in the bracket that you're looking at right now and Miami as the 3 seed, there's a chance that all of a sudden the accident is going to have three teams, just as many as, as, as the sec.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, possibly. Yeah. Well, the SEC is at two. Well, there's three right now in the bracket.

[Urban Meyer]

Big Ten.

[Mark Ingram]

Wow. How the tables have turned in the SEC championship game. Is that, who is that as of.

[Urban Meyer]

Right now locked in is SMU okay there they have to beat Syracuse at Syracuse Saturday. If Miami loses, Clemson is obviously regardless of what they do to South Carolina because that is not a conference game. Boise State, here's another one. Boise State sitting there up one spot at number 11. The Mountain west leader. The strength of schedules 81. They're 10 and one. They take on Oregon State Saturday. Oregon State's one of those teams that can do some things once in a while like the Oregon states, the Washington State's the wild cards of of college football hanging out in their own little two team conference.

[Mark Ingram]

Where's that game at Stoner?

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, man, I knew you were going to ask that because as soon as I wrote that in, I guarantee you our producer Chris is going to type in something here in a second. He's going to tell me.

[Mark Ingram]

I'm going to tell you right now. Oregon State home.

[Urban Meyer]

It's at Boy's State's home. And then we know next Friday night, a week from this Friday on Fox, we're going to be there, Mark, for the Mountain west championship game.

[Mark Ingram]

So always wanted to go see that blue turf, man. And I'm going to be able to stand on it.

[Urban Meyer]

You're going to, you're going to see it, you're going to smell it. We're going to be doing our show from it. What else? The things that keep jumping out to me, and I feel like we've said it before is there's a couple teams that are really highly ranked and valued.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah. Well, Penn State sitting at number. Penn State, they're the number four ranked team overall. Yeah. They're 10 and one.

[Urban Meyer]

What have they done?

[Mark Ingram]

No, no, they lost Illinois team. Their best. Their best win is in the Illinois.

[Urban Meyer]

Team like Illinois up two spots to 23. I'm not saying that's a bad win, but you're right. That's, that's it. And then the long.

[Mark Ingram]

And what has the Longhorns done? What have the Longhorns done to be ranked number three in the country with.

[Urban Meyer]

The two seed and they've took. We'll talk that one with our no.

[Mark Ingram]

Current top 25 wins for the Longhorn Stoner. No current top 25 wins as the, as the, as the 3 seed.

[Urban Meyer]

So they look the part on the field. But if you look at the.

[Mark Ingram]

So that's what I do like about the numbers. I feel like they are looking at how you are playing football. You know, they haven't necessarily. They don't have the resume, but they are one of the better teams in the country when you look at them play football. And they had that bad loss to Georgia. They might have a chance to avenge that loss in SEC championship if they can handle their business in Cal Station against A and M. But Texas, highly rated, had no current top 25 teams. Penn State highly rated, only one win over current top 25 teams. Illinois. So Indiana we. I was talking about that while you were getting your, you know, thing together. I was like, I'm happy if I'm a Hoosier right now because we're in the playoff if I'm a Hoosier.

[Urban Meyer]

You know, listen, they've got Purdue and Purdue is going to hurt their strength of schedule. You know, they, they should absolutely take their frustrations out on Purdue and they will not sink lower than 10. You know, the problem though for Indiana is at one point they were hosting and now they're on the road at Penn State. And I kind of like this one, right, because you're six verse 11 first round matchup is two teams from the same conference that did not play each other in the conference that don't have a lot of, you know, ranked opposition. And we have a lot of questions about both of them. For me, I'm looking at that, I'm like, I'm going to be happy with whoever moves on from that game because that will be a quality win.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes, it will be a quality win. You talk about the bracket. Look at how top heavy this bracket is. Look how top heavy this bracket is.

[Urban Meyer]

You have Tennessee, Georgia, Ohio State, Georgia.

[Mark Ingram]

Come on, like, I don't know if that's going to like switch over here in the next week or two.

[Urban Meyer]

That's a really good point.

[Mark Ingram]

Very top heavy right now, man. You get in that bottom bracket, man, you have a way easier chance to.

[Urban Meyer]

That two seed is Latin Texas, right? You're going to take on the winner of Notre Dame, SMU again, this is no disrespect to Notre Dame and smu, but on paper what you're looking at, you're like, well, that's a good one. And then the other three teams, Indiana, Penn State and a Miami team that has a lights out talent in Cam Ward. But a lot of question marks. And yeah, you're right. That bottom half of the bracket this week.

[Mark Ingram]

Right.

[Urban Meyer]

Really looks easy. I'm going to compare it to last week's. So last week's. Yeah, the bottom bracket was a little bit tougher. Georgia was in it. Penn State, Ole Miss, Indiana and Miami. So yeah, I think the bottom of the bracket got a little bit softer.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

And that top part of the bracket has always been lights out because as the two top teams in the nation for the last couple of weeks in it in Oregon and Ohio State on track, as coach mentioned, what, a month and a half ago for a three peat.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes.

[Urban Meyer]

A three peat rematch three times in one season. Insanity. And not even in the national championship game.

[Mark Ingram]

Right, right, right. That's wild. But listen, like we talk about the acc, if Clemson gets a win over South Carolina, do they jump the loser of Miami and smu? So that would only put two of the ACC teams in.

[Urban Meyer]

I think it's hard to imagine does Tennessee ACC teams in there. Right. It just, it doesn't feel right.

[Mark Ingram]

It's going to be possibly two.

[Urban Meyer]

I feel strong about two, two ACC teams right now. Cause you're supposed to not get punished by getting to the championship game, right?

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah. Also. But then you have Georgia. Does Georgia, does Tennessee jump Georgia if they lose in the conference title game?

[Urban Meyer]

That would anger me. Georgia's got to take care of Georgia.

[Mark Ingram]

So you're saying first of all, you go on the championship game ranked 8, you get to stay 8 and you hold.

[Urban Meyer]

At worst you hold surf. I think that's what they're hoping. But. But Mark, as you know, we're. It's humans. Humans are. We're not in AI yet handling these, these rankings in this bracket. So they're gonna, they're gonna see some score lines that.

[Mark Ingram]

Oh, we got a question. Stoner.

[Urban Meyer]

All right, hold on. I'm gonna. This, It's a small graphic so I'm gonna put on my readers. All right. Cent. I bet this is Central New York, Buckeyes, cny. This is what happens when you went to school Colgate up there in Central New York. Would you rather be the number one or the number five seed in the playoffs? This is a great question I've been.

[Mark Ingram]

Thinking about for a while, especially with how this bracket looks.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh. So right now, just for example, the number one seed of course is Oregon. They get a buy. Right? Like incredibly important this time of the season. 5 seed Ohio State getting quote unquote, the last team in. But then you get your home game. But then you go to a neutral site game against a Boise State, which I think we all agree would be the. The lowest of the four highest rated conference champions. Right. So I get it. The. The path to the semis looks good, but it's an extra game. And if you're the Buckeyes, you know, it's almost every other week there's. There's a offensive lineman going down. Like you don't want to play until you have to play, I think is my feeling. I think you want to be that one seed.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, I think you want the one seed. I think you want the buy. Let them let 9 and 8 beat each other up. You know, that's going to be a physical, tough matchup.

[Urban Meyer]

Just pinata each other.

[Mark Ingram]

Yep, yep. And then. Come on, let me get you one win. I'm in the semis. As appealing as that five looks to if I'm Ohio State, to go ahead and just whoop up on Arizona State or whoever gets that, if It's a Big 12 or the 8, too.

[Urban Meyer]

Lane. Yeah.

[Mark Ingram]

So as. As appealing as it is to whoop up on that possible opponent and get the. Boise. Have to go to Boise, by the way. No, no, that would be neutral.

[Urban Meyer]

No, no, no. Neutral site game.

[Mark Ingram]

Neutral site game.

[Charles Woodson]

So.

[Mark Ingram]

But then beat up on Boise, as appealing as that seems, it seems like a straight shot to the semis. You know what I mean? Whereas Oregon, you play Georgia, you might not make the semis, or you might. You know what I mean?

[Urban Meyer]

But I'll take the one seed. You know what?

[Mark Ingram]

I'll take the one seed.

[Urban Meyer]

One's my favorite number. That's where I would rather be. All day and all night.

[Mark Ingram]

It's. Yeah, because 1, 2, 3. You had to play four games, man. You had to play four games. If you're in that. If you. If you have to. If you're that five seed, you have to win four games. Whereas opposed to you win two, you're in the championship. Win three, you have the championship. So I think the one seed is a place to be.

[Urban Meyer]

This is fascinating. So again, the first team out, Clemson, and they have South Carolina this weekend. Maybe they're in the ACC championship game. Oh, yeah, we're going to talk about that. MGM picks are coming up when we drop the full edition of the triple option tomorrow. Second team out is Alabama. Teams to be thinking about this week, number 16, Arizona State in the bracket. Number 17, Tulane out of the bracket. Big game against Memphis Thursday and then the AAC championship game. And the Big 12 is an absolute gorgeous, beautiful train wreck. We're going to talk about all the possibilities and all the programs that are still live. I think there's 250 possibilities of what the championship could be. And nine programs in the Big 12 are still alive heading into rivalry weekend.

[Mark Ingram]

250 possible options between 19.

[Urban Meyer]

Telling what people told me that seems like a lot, but there's a lot of programs that are still available and nobody controls their destiny in the Big 12. We're going to talk about that with our BET MGM picks. All right, so now that we've heard the latest rankings, let's take a look at the results that led to some of these programs being on the outside looking in. Because as we've been saying for weeks now, anything can happen on any given Saturday in college football. How about this? Number 7, number 9, number 15, number 16 all lost to unranked teams this weekend. We bring Coach Meyer in for this conversation right now. Let's talk about those four games real quick. Number seven, Alabama, losing at Oklahoma 24 to 3. Coaches, Gators. The resurgent Gators take care of number nine, Ole Miss 24 17. Auburn upsets Texas A and M. Maybe the Aggies were looking ahead to this Saturday in four overtimes. And Kansas, the Big 12 Grim Reaper tour continued as they took care of then number 16. Colorado 3721 Kansas. Guys, the first team in NCAA history with a losing record to win not one, not two, three straight games against ranked opponents. You know what that is, don't you? That is your saucy of the week. Try some at your nearest Wendy's. Of those losses that we just talked about, you know, Coach, let's bring you into the conversation first. Which one do you think was the most devastating to those programs going forward, whether it's this season or kind of long term?

[Rob Stone]

Ole Miss and Alabama, just devastating. And Alabama, at times they look like the best team in the country. I mean, there was, you know, I was saying you got Ohio State, Oregon, you got Texas and you put dog gone Bama pretty close to that, you know, as far as the way they look when they're on fire when Jalen played. But I mean, something was in the water in Tuscaloosa or my gosh or Norman or wherever that was. Norman, Oklahoma. But I want to hit this, Rob, really, really hard. I've been waiting to hit this. I think there's got to be a reconfiguration and conversation about bowl games. You're talking about Alabama and to go play, in all due respect. I mean, when I was at Utah, we went to Liberty bowl was the greatest thing in the world. Bowling Green. I stood in front of a 9 and 3 bowling green team and we kept practicing even though we had nowhere to go. Our players would have what did anything. But you see some of these teams that have the aspirations of going at all. Mark, is Shador Sanders and Travis Hunter really going to play in a lower level bowl game?

[Mark Ingram]

Negative.

[Rob Stone]

Alabama in that crew, you know, the agents and you know, when, when Denzel Ward first came to me before the Cotton bowl and said, I don't think I'm going to play in this game, I thought, like, what happened? You know, I really didn't compute with me what what was happening. So I think we're about to see something in the next seven days that's going to really transform college football in postseason.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah. If you are one of these elite players that is going to the next level to play football and you're not in a conference championship game, you're not going to the college football playoff. They are going to hang it up. And then you also have to think about your guys that are coming back, your underclassmen coming back. Are they going to enter the portal? This is something that you have to ongoing. These are ongoing issues. You know, we had a freshman all American in Caleb Downs. When I say we, Alabama, we had all American, a freshman all American in Caleb Downs. He enters a portal, obviously and all that. But you have to worry about that every single off season. Are your great players who are underclassmen going to enter the portal and go somewhere else because of this nil in this new world where somebody might come and offer them more money?

[Urban Meyer]

So I feel like we've been conditioned for this already. Like, this is not news to me, coach, because I, it was news a couple years ago. Like, wait, what a second? Like, you know, we grew up with bowl games matter. They, they meant something. How could you, how could you bail on your team in the last game of the season? The last game maybe of your career? But I get it. This is a long term view right now.

[Rob Stone]

You're right. Rob, let me interrupt real quick. You're right, it's news, but it's bad news. It, it, I, I don't think it should continue. Let me ask you a question. Florida State, I think went 13 and 0 or 12 and over, whatever it was, they get snubbed, their players don't play and they get their teeth kicked in.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah.

[Rob Stone]

As a result, they go one and whatever this year did that, you know, and someone could say, well, is it good for the young players to play. I would say if you're going to get your ass kicked in. No, no. I want, I don't want to coach it. I don't want to be around it. And I don't want to speak for.

[Urban Meyer]

Nobody wants to get their ass kicked in, do they?

[Mark Ingram]

But that's what's going to happen when you best players.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Stone]

But you have 10 or 12 dudes say, I'm not playing. And I mean, so yeah, some guys that aren't ready to play and just get. What would you say, Mark? You get what?

[Charles Woodson]

Push.

[Mark Ingram]

Get your, get your stuff pushed in. It's so bad pushing.

[Rob Stone]

So I just think it's. My point is then I'll, I'll throw back. I keep interrupting you because I'm so. I can't wait to see what happens.

[Mark Ingram]

No, it's going to happen.

[Rob Stone]

I know, I know a 6 and 6 or 7 and, you know, LSU getting on a plane to go somewhere. Why?

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah.

[Rob Stone]

What are you doing?

[Mark Ingram]

Well, yeah, you look at Travis Hunter, Shadow Sanders. If they're not In a Big 12 championship game, if they're not in a CFP out, that's the last that we'll see of them in college for sure.

[Urban Meyer]

And that's fine. I think we're all okay with that, right? I mean, we're talking first round grades. You don't want to get two picks. We've seen, we've seen too many horrible instances of next level players getting injured in moments that maybe they didn't need to be there and it, it changes their life.

[Mark Ingram]

I got to hit. I got to hit two, though. The most devastating loss, 1,000% is that Alabama loss. That Alabama loss was atrocious. Like to have your season on the line, the SEC championship online, the CFP on the line, and to go lay an egg when you have everything on the line like that is devastating. It's a devastating loss and we knew that there would be some change coming with Coach DeBoer. There's always change when a new head coach takes over. But when you inherit that kind of roster, when you're in the position that you're in, to capitalize and be able to go to the cfp, that was very much attainable. This is a team that has the talent and to win a national championship when they're playing their best football, but when they play their best, when they play bad football, it is. They look like a 500 team coach. It is really bad. There is no in between. It's either one of the best teams in the country or A non ball eligible team.

[Urban Meyer]

So I think it's bad for all those teams outside of A and M, right, Because A and M still kind of has this pathway, right?

[Mark Ingram]

With A and M, still controls their.

[Urban Meyer]

Own destiny with Texas and then if they can get by them into the SEC championship game, they can win their way back.

[Mark Ingram]

A and M still controls their own destiny. Alabama does not. And they don't deserve to go to the playoffs because of how they've been playing. Like that was terrible. To have your season on the line, conference championship, CFP all ahead of you and to go lay an egg like that on the road. Three turnovers.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah.

[Mark Ingram]

No, no, no response for the quarterback run. They ran for over 200 rush yards on us. That was just awful. Man, that was just terrible.

[Rob Stone]

The team, the team that took it, I'd say after Alabama is Ole Miss taking it on the chin like that after a surgeon. It's not the Gators anymore. It's for the surgeon Gators, right? What I mean, imagine being happy being 6 and 5 in Gainesville, Florida. I mean, we went 13 and 1 and I couldn't go out to eat a game. And so Ole Miss, of all the rosters too, that's probably a generational roster that Ole Miss had you that, you know, Alabama, you're going to see rosters like that. Ole Miss, I've coached against Ole Miss many times and when I watched them on tape, I mean there are great players all over that field. I mean the defense doesn't get. So they get overlooked by dart and you know, Coach Kiffin and all that. Ole Miss is legit, Mark.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes, they are.

[Rob Stone]

And they lost and they're out. You know, that's, that's a generational opportunity because they had really, really great players at Ole Miss.

[Urban Meyer]

I want to go back to the players, you know, leaving the programs at some point. We expect this to come. And we also just kind of know this is what's happening to me, Coach, which is going to be really interesting is how are the coaches going to handle themselves and their programs at this point? Do they say, okay, we're done and it's time to go out and recruit. It's time to start spending our time, our resources on the transfer portal and re recruiting these guys rather than spending some really valuable moments, some valuable practices with the younger guys and building them up. And you know that, man, it frustrates me because I always thought bowl games were a wonderful opportunity to end your season or end your career on a great note. And also for these freshmen, these sophomores to get some really valuable reps and say, hey, hey, coach. Hey, coaches, look at me. I'm ready for next year. I'm going to be your guy. And that's a great window for teams to learn about their players more. And if the coaches don't value it, the players aren't going to value it. And maybe now it's the other way. If the players aren't going to value it, maybe the coaches aren't going to value it.

[Rob Stone]

There's a big part of me, Mark and Rob, that's heartbroken because I grew up in that. I grew up in the first bowl game I got to coach in when I was at the University of Utah and the players. And it was one of the greatest experience I've ever had. And I was also assistant coach at Colorado State when, you know, and going to the Rose bowl, my gosh, I still tear up. I think I got a chance to coach in the Rose bowl snow. But, you know, I'd say this. Rob, Rob, you sound like an old man. I mean, you kind of sound like me. That's over, pal. It's done.

[Urban Meyer]

You're telling me to move on. I love this.

[Rob Stone]

This is the new generation. This is the Deuce Deuce Mark Ingram generation.

[Mark Ingram]

No, it ain't. This ain't my generation.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, man.

[Mark Ingram]

My generation, Mark.

[Urban Meyer]

Under the bus now.

[Mark Ingram]

I'm done, Coach.

[Urban Meyer]

I just don't want to see the coaches giving up on.

[Rob Stone]

This is one of these.

[Urban Meyer]

I'm not sure they're going to. Oh, all right. So we're talking about that, right? The Shadoor. I want your reaction real quick. This is Coach Prime's reaction to that loss. Remember, for the last couple of weeks, we've been banging the drum for Colorado. Here they come working their way up the Big 12 food chain. Here they are in position to get to the Big 12 championship game and get themselves into playoffs. Year two of Coach prime, they had it. They had it in front of them. This is a huge setback to SCO Buffs. Here's how Coach prime handled that loss.

[AJ Hawk]

It's not one of you could say you played your best game. Nobody in here can say you gave the maximum effort. You gave it all you could. It's nobody. And you see the result. See, the problem is you got intoxicated with success, and success is intoxicating. You start believing what they're saying. You start listening more to what they said. You bought into all that foolishness that you were this. And you went out there and we got humble coaches, players, everyone we went out there and got humbled. But it is what it is. Where you go from here? Where you go from here?

[Rob Stone]

Like.

[AJ Hawk]

Like, where do you go from here? That's the critical thing. What do you do with this moment? What do you glean from this moment?

[Urban Meyer]

Moment.

[AJ Hawk]

What do you learn from this moment? Where do we go from here? Because this moment just ain't about football. It's about life. And this is a tremendous life lesson. Let's learn from it. Let's learn from it and grow from it. The question is, guys, I'm asking you one last time. Where do you go from here?

[Urban Meyer]

Man, I love that. I absolutely love that. Because so much of the conversation about Coach prime is. Is PR in media, and he loves the camera and he loves, you know, this and that and the glitz and the glamour and the. The rap concerts in the locker room after they get a home win. Coach, that you were talking about last week. But, man, that is heartfelt, right? That is suffering and caring about these young men, about these student athletes. I think this is one of the. I think this is a defining moment in Coach Prime's coaching, young coaching career.

[Mark Ingram]

Well, you talk about all the flash, the glitch, the glamour, all the stuff that doesn't matter when you pull back the curtain. There is substance being coached into these young men by Coach Prime. Yes. Football is a great tool to learn life lessons. That's why we all love it so much. When you get knocked on your butt, how you respond shows the true character of a man. And that's what he challenged that entire locker room to do after the toughest loss of the season. And you will be a better man because of how you respond to that, if. Or you will be worse by how you respond to it. So for him to challenge his players after a devastating loss like that shows you that there is true substance that he is.

[Urban Meyer]

He's not quitting. He's not done.

[Mark Ingram]

He's not quitting.

[Urban Meyer]

He's still soldiering on, and he is developing young men.

[Mark Ingram]

He is not just out here being flash and no substance. No, there is substance being brought into these student athletes. And if I'm a father, if I'm a mother, if I have a young man who wants to play college football, you see that. That speech that he's giving to his players after one of the toughest losses of the season, and that is someone who you want your child to play for.

[Rob Stone]

Well, that's why I went out there. I've known Prime a long time, and, you know, I just. You See some of the stuff on tv. And quite honestly, at times, it makes you uncomfortable just because, once again, Rob me and you were too old. No, just kidding. But I had to go witness it firsthand. And I sat in the meetings and I. I called every one of you guys afterwards. I said, man, there's something here. You know, there's something. He is diving into these guys. He coaches them really. I mean, like, really hard. Like, I 1. I was there that one day of practice, and, you know, they got a rule. They got to run off the field, and a couple of them did it. And, I mean, he stopped practice, and it was for the rest of practice, I promise you. They all did. Because football has a lot of things. You got to do little things, right? That leads to big things. And that's his message. And it was great. It was fantastic. And it's a different. You know, sometimes it's different what you see on TV and, you know, the. No. When we were there at the game and, you know, the video cameras everywhere and all that. But you know what? That's his world. But all I know is what I heard and I witnessed firsthand. And you see it so well, people.

[Mark Ingram]

Want to be a part of it. That's the thing when some people want to be a part of it. So that's why you see the amount of celebrities, the amount of people that wanted their hands in it, because they admire Coach prime, they appreciate Coach Prime. So you go on the sideline and you see it looking like the VMA award and the ESPYs. Like, that's just a credit and a sentiment to Coach prime and what he's done, what he's doing. He's a trendsetter. He's a motivator, and people like to be around success. And so I just. I know it's a lot of stuff. People don't like it. But listen, man, when you are great and you have success and you are a motivator and you have something good going, people want to be a part of it. And so just. I commend Coach prime for what he's been able to do. Nobody. Nobody has been to Boulder like that. Nobody. The sidelines have never looked like that at Boulder.

[Rob Stone]

Also, one of the great, arguably one of the greatest athletes ever put on a helmet, do what you got to do. And that's. He's different. You know, that's good. And. And reality is. Reality is they were. They're. They got ridiculous great players, but they also got a bunch of average players. Yeah, that's not a great football. That's a really good team.

[Mark Ingram]

When you talk about the most talented roster in college football, Colorado isn't in that discussion. You know, they have two of the best players in college football and some good receivers, a couple good players here and there, but the overall roster isn't one of the top in the country, so.

[Urban Meyer]

Well, here's the coach prime continuing to fight the good fight. You know what week it is, don't you? It's Michigan. It's Ohio State. It's the game. Two legends of those two programs join the triple option. Next. Buckeye. Great. AJ Hawk. Heisman winner from Michigan, Charles Woodson. Join the conversation. Next. You've had Wendy's nuggs dipped in sauce, right? Mark? You've had the Wendy nuggs I've had.

[Mark Ingram]

And I love them.

[Urban Meyer]

All right. But Mark, I ask you, have you had them covered in sauce? Wendy's new saucy nugs. Take the crispy and spicy nugs that I know you love. And you know what they turn them up to? They turn them up to 11, Mark.

[Mark Ingram]

Ooh, more than 10.

[Urban Meyer]

More than 10.

[Mark Ingram]

Choose between flavors like buffalo, honey barbecue, garlic parm, or if you're a real heat seeker, try spicy ghost pepper. Only on Whitney's signature spicy nugs. I dare you. There's seven delicious ways to try the nugs you already love.

[Urban Meyer]

Are you man enough to try the spicy ghost pepper? By the way, do you think you could pull that off?

[Mark Ingram]

That's not for me. I'm the honey barbecue type guy.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, I can do the peppers, pick a flavor, grab some extra napkins, and then go back and get a few more napkins and prepare to nugget. Apparently, the word nug is a verb now. So, Mark, prepare to nug like you've never nugged before. For a whole new way to nug, it's gotta be Wendy's at participating us Wendy's Keep on nugging America.

[Mark Ingram]

Nug City.

[Urban Meyer]

In our job, the office is always changing, whether it be at the big House, the Coliseum, or even Death Valley. While there are many different types of offices out there, one thing is for certain. Choosing the right candidate for any office is a huge responsibility. Coach.

[Charles Woodson]

Hey.

[Rob Stone]

Well, if you're hiring, you want to find the best candidates for your office. You need ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try for free at ZipRecruiter.com option ZipRecruiter is the.

[Urban Meyer]

Hiring site employees prefer the Most based on G2. How fast does ZipRecruiter's smart technology start showing your job to qualified candidates. How about immediately? And you can invite top candidates for your job to apply to encourage them to apply sooner.

[Rob Stone]

Remember, if you want to find the right candidates for your office, you need ZipRecruiter. See why 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free.

[Urban Meyer]

ZipRecruiter.com option Again, that is ZipRecruiter.com option ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire Want to shop Walmart?

[Mark Ingram]

Black Friday deals first Walmart plus members.

[Charles Woodson]

Get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50 off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart plus see [e-mail] all right, welcome back.

[Urban Meyer]

To the triple option presented by Wendy's. It is the game this week, so let's bring in some representatives from both sides of the program. We got A.J. hawk, a national champion with Ohio State, back in.022 time all American, three and one in the game. And our good friend Charles Woodson, you know him as a Heisman Trophy winner, 1997 national champ at Michigan. Charles is 3 and 0 in the game. I would love to start with AJ the well read AJ Hawk and one of his favorite books behind him. But Charles, we got Coach Meyer here. So Coach, you get.

[Mark Ingram]

No, no, Charles, go ahead. Go ahead and start.

[Urban Meyer]

What you said already starting.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah. Say, A.J. you got a loss, huh?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, unfortunately I, I stayed all four years. Yeah. Chucky, I don't know what would happen if you would have stayed, but. Yeah, I lost my sophomore year. You guys had a squad.

[Coach Meyer]

Just asking.

[Mark Ingram]

Just ask.

[Coach Meyer]

I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

[Rob Stone]

I've been, I've been waiting to hear this. You got AJ Hawk, one of the most decorated players ever to come out of the great state Ohio. And then obviously Charles, one of the most decorated players I Great state Ohio. All right, A.J. what the hell happened? How does a guy from outside Toledo, Ohio, and even Desmond Howard from Cleveland, the only Heismans? I mean what in the hell happened do you think AJ did he someone take his lunch money in 6th grade or something or what happened?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I always wanted to ask you that. Wood. I know what up where up where you're from though isn't a bunch of. A bunch of people do actually. You guys are so close to Michigan, don't people? Actually it's not that uncommon, I guess for you guys to Go. Which sucks for us Ohio people, but obviously, we know history is already set.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of split up there. I mean, we're close to the border. You know, I'm probably, you know, in terms of distance wise, between Columbus and Ann Arbor. I could get to either one of those places in the. In the, you know, same amount of time. So we have quite a bit of Michigan fans up where I'm from, but I get asked that question all the time, and it's really a simple, easy answer. My older brother who still lives in Ohio, you know, he was a big Michigan fan growing up, and he's like, you know, he was my first childhood idol. You know, he was the man in the house. You know, he played all the different sports. He wrestled, he ran track, he played football. Like, he was. He was the man. And he liked Michigan. And so guess what? Little brother like. Little brother like Michigan, too. So I just grew up on that side of the rivalry as a young kid, man, and it just, of course, it drove me to go up north and cross the border.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, sure. That way. So, coach, you said the two Heismans from that team up north come from Ohio?

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah, we got two. We got Desmond. Desmond.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But both of y'all from Ohio, Cleveland.

[Coach Meyer]

Area, and then myself. So we're. We're toured.

[Rob Stone]

It's not that market. From Ohio. Best. Their best coaches are from the great state of Ohio. So, you know, Harpa was born in Toledo.

[Urban Meyer]

Listen, Charles is outnumbered this week. Hang in there, Charles.

[Mark Ingram]

Listen, I'm from Michigan. I don't really love the Wolverines, but I'm from Michigan. So y'all ain't just gonna be just talking bad about my state like this. Like, we was at.

[Rob Stone]

We.

[Mark Ingram]

We was at dinner last week. He had the whole restaurant talking about, we don't give a dang about the whole state of Michigan. I say I'm about to put. Hey, I'm, like, about to knuckle up with somebody up there. Like, hey, now.

[Coach Meyer]

Like, yeah, you was outnumbered. You just need. You just needed your boy with you, man. We just.

[Mark Ingram]

Hey, I was about to nut up and buck up.

[Coach Meyer]

Hey, hey, back to back. We just go back to back.

[Mark Ingram]

All right, now, I just want to ask, man, Coach got an addie. I got an addie. Both of y'all got natties. We were played in a different era, BCS era, whatever it may be. I think it was the AP before that. Whatever. Just a long history of how they Determined national championship, national champion. With this new playoff format, do you think this is a better way to determine a champion than in years past?

[Coach Meyer]

I'll say yes. I think just because it makes it more inclusive, you know, before, you know, you go back through the timeline when we were undefeated, we were contracted, of course, to go play the Rose bowl, the Big Ten. And so we played the winner of the PAC 10, played Washington State. We didn't have an opportunity to play Nebraska, who was also undefeated. And then I think a year later is when the BCS was implemented, and then it started the best teams or the best four teams. And so. But you always have, outside of those four teams, you always have a fifth, a sixth team that's saying, hey, we're good enough to win. Maybe we're in the toughest division. We only have one loss. We should crack the top four because we play the toughest competition. And so now this just allows some of those teams who normally would be outside of that window to have that opportunity. So we get to see a team, maybe it's Boise State, right, that gets into the playoffs and in years past, maybe they had an undefeated season and say, hey, we're one of the best teams. All right, well, now we get to find out, you know, because now you're going to get to play against, well, I don't know what Alabama and all these guys going down. I don't know who. You know, it could be Tennessee, it could be Ohio State. And so now you got to bring.

[Mark Ingram]

Up bad stuff, man.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah, we really get to find out those teams that were outside of that bubble, how real their programs are when it. When it comes to the. Comes down to it.

[Urban Meyer]

A.J. you like the current setup?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I do. Just because, like, anytime, no matter how many teams you put in, I feel like, yeah, there's always going to be teams left out that feel like they should be there. But we put in 12, and it's a winner go home situation. Yeah. Like you can prove that you're the best team. I think that's always better than when a group of people votes on who the best team might be. Like, anytime you can play for it. I am absolutely. All in favor.

[Urban Meyer]

AJ what was your first memory of what this rivalry is or the first time that the game hit you? Whether it was as a grade schooler, your freshman year, when you guys had that great, you know, late touchdown and then that defensive stand. You know, what was the moment to you that said, oh, my gosh, this is what Ohio State, Michigan is?

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah, I mean, I Grew up about an hour and 15 minutes from Columbus. And I grew up definitely an Ohio State fan, but I didn't end up going to any games until I was in high school. When I was being recruited, I was always playing my sports on the weekends, really, and watching the games when I could. So I definitely knew what the week was like. In elementary school, we had different themes every day leading up to and all that, but I didn't really understand it.

[Urban Meyer]

Until I got what were the themes in elementary school.

[Charles Woodson]

Like, each day I think you would dress up as a different. Like, for your different favorite player on the team, on Ohio State or whatever it was. And there's, like, different themes of. Of scarlet and gray and what you would wear throughout the week. So I knew I understood it a little bit, but until I got on campus and I heard Coach Tressel tell us about it and teach us the history of it and the whole week leading up to it. And then actually playing in my first game, like, we won to go 130 at home. I was a true freshman. We knew we were going to the national championship after we beat Michigan 14 to 9. Like, talk about trust, Old school ball control, defense. And I remember the whole. The whole everybody empties onto the field, and, you know, you couldn't even move. It was so chaotic. And I ran it randomly, ran into my mom and my brother on the field, and with 50,000 people roaming the field right there. And I remember, like, oh, we're going to the national championship. Oh, this is. This is. I guess that this is what this game is. So, yeah, I was lucky to have a great start, man.

[Urban Meyer]

What about for you, Charles?

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like, you know, A.J. you know, these games were played on Saturdays, and we always had stuff going on. So you always really. You caught, you know, like, the highlights, you know, of the games. And just for me, you know, remembering big plays, like, you know, Desmond's run up the sideline, which is, you know, kind of crazy, because later on I would end up having a play similar to. Similar to that. But it was. It was just, you know, just the energy around that game. And, you know, AJ Mentioned it, like, in school, like, it was a big deal, you know, because, you know, a lot of people in my school knew that I liked Michigan before I ever committed. But of course, we had a lot of Ohio State fans and, you know, people around our community who. We even went to, you know, Ohio State. So it was always the back and forth, you know, during the week leading up to that game. So for me, I think it was all about the lead up. And, you know, if your team won, then of course, you know, the rest of the year was a great year.

[Rob Stone]

All right, this week, the Buckeyes are favored by 21 points. AJ and oh, four. And think about this.04, the Wolverines were ranked seventh. Ohio State was unranked. And then Charles and you guys beat, Beat them. Charles. In 96, you guys had three losses and you were playing the number two Buckeyes. So tell us the mindset. At one time, I was a coach and we were up. I think we were picked by 20 or 21. And, and the thing that I, I shared, and I'm sure our players did, and you guys did as well, is that the minute you think the Wolverines don't have great players, you're dead, Ron, you're going to get hit right in the face. And so the, the point spreads don't matter. Can you guys speak to playing in a. As an underdog like the Wolverines will be this weekend?

[Coach Meyer]

You know, for my, for my, myself and, you know, 95, I felt like throughout my career, I felt like 95 really was our best team, you know, in terms of, you know, the names and the people that we had, you know, Manny Toomer, Mercury Hayes, Bianca Batuka, Jared Irons, Clarence Thompson. Like we, I thought 95, if there was any year that we would, you know, go undefeated and make it to a championship game, it would be that year. So going into that game, you know, having those losses on our schedule, we still thought we were a great team. You know, of course, we fell short throughout the season, you know, and lost some close games, games we probably shouldn't have lost. But we never went into the Ohio State game thinking that we were the inferior team. We just felt like, man, we played to the level of our competition throughout the year, but coming to the, into that game, you know, it was, it was, it was ingrained into us that, look, we expect to beat every team on our schedule, especially within our conference, but there's, there's one team that really matters, and it was always beating Ohio State. So if, throughout the year, you know, you allowed yourself to, to, you know, let your guard down in a game, we weren't letting our guard down against Ohio State. So this week, you know, being a 21 point underdog. Underdog has got to be pretty humbling, you know, especially for guys who came from that team last year that won a championship. The guys who are still around, you know, to come off a championship and then come into this game and be 21 point underdog is pretty humbling. So I know those guys would be fired up because again, we've been always taught that, you know, if you went 0 and 10 and you got to this game and you won this game, then you know what? We. We ended on a good note. We look forward to next season. So. So the guys. The guys will be ready. And I look forward to just. Just watching the guys fight and compete.

[Charles Woodson]

Hey, that's a good. A good question about the underdogs. That. That was my junior year. The coach mentioned. I didn't realize they were ranked seventh and we were unranked. I knew. I think we had four losses going into the game and we. We had not played great multiple times during that year. But yeah, they came in there and we. I just remember the game, honestly. I remember how much fun we had. We. They come in there, we. I don't know if you could say you didn't have any pressure on us, whatever, but we felt like, yeah, we want to be the spoilers. We want to mess up whatever they got going on, all the good stuff they have, and we end up winning the game. I'm not sure even what the score was, but I remember just how fun it was on the field, on the sideline and after the game. And like I said, we weren't a great team at the time, but we took that. And that absolutely fueled us throughout our off season, throughout those winter workouts, throughout the spring, ball like that. It kind of gave us a little springboard into that. And now if we wouldn't have won that game, who knows? That off season would have been brutal, and I think it definitely helped us out.

[Mark Ingram]

Hey, Charles, man, obviously head coach Ron Moore, man, he's a guy who I have a lot of respect for, a guy who I hold in high regards. He's always been good to me. Obviously inherited a tough situation, a tough season for Michigan. And what do you think the future is? What's the next steps for this program under head coach Sharon Moore?

[Coach Meyer]

Well, first of all, first of all, you know, for Sharon, you know, I was. I was golfing, I think it was maybe a week and a half ago, and one of the people I was golfing with, first question he asked me, hey, you guys going to fire the coach? And I'm like, what are we talking about?

[Mark Ingram]

Right?

[Coach Meyer]

Like, why would we even be considering firing the coach? I mean, considering the circumstances, you know, coming back or him taking over a team that lost 18 of his 22 starters to either get drafted or on an NFL team as a free agent in some degree. So this was going to be a tough job for him coming in, regardless of, you know, what the circumstances were. So we've got to give him a chance, man. You know what I mean? Give him a chance to be a recruiter, you know, as the head coach. You know, we just had a, you know, a big win getting the number one player in terms of quarterback.

[Mark Ingram]

Y'all got that money. You chipped in on that, huh?

[Urban Meyer]

Some of that Oracle money.

[Coach Meyer]

And I gave him, like, I had, like, $1.75 on it, man. I let. I let Larry. I let Larry take care of the balance of that, man.

[Urban Meyer]

And a bottle of whiskey.

[Coach Meyer]

And some whiskey. But, yeah, so, I mean, you guys have watched the games all year. You've seen how we've looked at, you know, the quarterback position. We know that when you look at the, you know, the top teams right now, they got guys that are at the helm, you know, distributing the football, who are really good players. So you got to get that position solidified. We've had injuries. Will Johnson hasn't played in some times. Not going to play this week, I believe. I just read. So just a lot he has to deal with, you know, offensive line. Most of those guys are gone on to play at the next level. So now, coach, you know, we. You talk about it a lot. You talk about a position group on the field that really has to have that continuity. It's that offensive line. And so those guys have to grow within that position as well. So Jerome just needs a little time. Like I said, we got this new quarterback coming in, so that'll bring some energy to the program and then just continue to build on, you know, his Smash mentality. You know, he always talks about Smash, and I know that. I know he's a good coach, and I think he'll get this thing turned around for sure.

[Urban Meyer]

AJ let's pivot to you and let's talk about the Ohio State head coach, Ryan Day. Just the other day, he said his issues against Michigan, just one win, one of the worst things in his life, and he compared it to the passing of his father as well, which just kind of increases the magnitude of what this rivalry means to Ryan Day, what it means to Ohio State. Where is, in your mind, Coach Day and the Buckeyes right now with the recent issues they've had against Michigan since Ryan Day took over?

[Charles Woodson]

Well, I mean, everyone. This game is like a weird one for them, I feel like, because, yeah, 21 point favorites. Everyone's Expecting you to win. How do you not let it become like a trap game or whatever? Because we know like they're. Hey, they're going to bring like they're. It doesn't really matter. You can say all the thing, oh, you can throw out the records in rivalry games. Like this game is different. Like it's like I said my junior year, we probably should not have won the game. We found a way to beat them. They came into our house and did it. So, you know, like, you're not going to take them lightly. But I feel like seeing Coach Day, when you hear that like you, you get a sense of what the magnitude is like, especially if you're not from Ohio or Michigan, you understand. Hopefully it gives you a little glimpse into like what it does mean. And it's true. Like I, some of my like earliest memories of this game are I have an uncle who is like, you know, like everybody says the biggest die hard Ohio State fan ever. But he like lives and dies Ohio State.

[Mark Ingram]

He.

[Charles Woodson]

I remember him hugging me and crying after multiple games he would come to just because he was so happy. We, we would beat some team 64 to 2. Like some. One of our early games, like games like that would even affect him. He was just so excited and loves the game. So there's people like that like everywhere you look. So this game is everything. Like it's true. Like it really is. Especially if you're the coach. I mean obviously Urban knows better than anybody. Like, yeah, if you, you win this game, like life can be good. If you don't, like, it's almost like you can't allow yourself to be happy until you do find a way to beat this, win this game.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah, I think, I think too just to kind of, you know, piggyback off that. I mean you got to think about, you know, for, for, you know, Ryan Day to have, you know, that, that sentiment about the game. You compare that, you know, losing to, you know, his father. When you think about the position that he's in this year, yes, they have those expectations to beat Michigan, but, but also that, you know, people talk about the amount of money, money that they reportedly spent. We talked about our quarterback and what we, you know, spend to get this guy flipped, what amount of money that they, they spent to bring in Caleb Downs, to bring in judgments and all of these guys. Like there's a, there's a, there's a huge pressure. I think, you know, we're 21 point underdogs and kind of like AJ talked about when he played, you Know, they probably maybe shouldn't have beat Michigan then, but you know that you're going to go out there and give your best. So Michigan is going to come to play, but the pressure shifts to Ohio State because of what they brought in to ensure that they win this game and try to get into the playoffs. So it's going to be interesting to watch, man.

[Mark Ingram]

Now, hey, I just got. None of us. We. None of us got to experience the nil, man. I think we all would have been. We all played a long time in the league, so we did okay, but we would have been real wealthy going into the. Going into the next phase of our lives. You know, how we had nil during our time. But with this new nil and all this thing around college football, do you think it's been a benefit to the college football or do you think it's been a detriment?

[Charles Woodson]

The nil. So, yeah, sometimes I do wonder, oh, what would I have done in college if this. If I was part of that? The one thing, the only thing I actually, I was like, man, I would have rented a sweet house somewhere with a pool and a hot tub. Like, that's what I would have wanted to have close enough to campus where I was still a college kid, but have, like a legit adult fun party house. Yeah, like, that's. That's the number one thing I would have got. But I would just.

[Rob Stone]

I would have been thinking about that, aj, Right?

[Charles Woodson]

I would have rented that one. I would have rented.

[Urban Meyer]

It's not too late, aj.

[Charles Woodson]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

Well, yeah, you and Brady can go in on a place.

[Rob Stone]

Yeah, I've seen AJ's. He's good.

[Charles Woodson]

We just. Hey, Brady just got a sweet new sprinter van. Make sure he takes you guys around in it when he can. I know he's got it first. His 15 kids, he has on the way, so. But as far as the nil stuff. Yeah. I think it's at least from what. From an outsider, from a fan. Just watching the game and watching teams play like, it's. We're getting awesome games. We're getting awesome matchups, obviously, because of how the conferences and how everything is realigned. We get these huge matchups early in the year that sometimes we don't. We're not used to getting. So. I like that. I think the play on the field has been awesome. Like, I still. Sometimes, yeah, it might be tough to figure out which school this guy, you know, you got a quarterback who. You're watching him on his third team play, and he's still a Good player, like.

[Rob Stone]

Right.

[Charles Woodson]

It's crazy sometimes getting that all situated, but I think from a fan's perspective, the game seems to see it's. They're playing at a high, high level. Nothing's, like, deteriorated. I feel like the game's getting better and they're exciting games to watch. So that's the main thing I'm thinking of. I don't. The insides. I don't even understand how it works. And what. I know there's a court case coming up in April or something that they're going to make a decision on that's going to. Could change the way Nil works, but at least there's still a great product on the field in which. That's the main thing I care about.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah. I just. I just think, oh, I wonder, would I even. Would. I've gone to Michigan. You got to think about growing up and, you know, I don't know who else AJ looked at when he was coming out of high school. For myself, of course, I always loved Michigan. I took a visit to the Miami Hurricanes and took a visit to Notre Dame, but in my heart, I was always probably going to go to Michigan. But in terms of today's game, you look at this Bryce Underwood, who was committed to lsu, and then all of a sudden we flip them. If I'm coming out of school and somebody offers me 5 and somebody offers me 1 million, where am I going?

[Charles Woodson]

5.

[Coach Meyer]

Good chance I'm going to take the 5, you know what I mean? So I think it's changed up the landscape in that regard, in terms of having. I think it changed any, you know, little bit of loyalty a person might have had to a particular brand. It's about the green now.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah.

[Coach Meyer]

You know what I mean?

[Mark Ingram]

It's about that money.

[Urban Meyer]

Not the school colors, the color of green.

[Coach Meyer]

Not the school colors, man. So it's changing in that regard. And so. But. But let me just say that I do believe that players should be paid. So, yes, I would. I would start there and say that Nil in that regard is good. Do I think there's a better way to navigate it in terms of how these players are getting played? I do. I don't really know how, but I know there's a better way somewhere. I don't know about giving a guy 10 million coming out of high school? I'm like, wow. You know what I'm saying? Come on, man.

[Mark Ingram]

That's heavy.

[Coach Meyer]

So. So, yeah, that's heavy. So I think it's good. It has some. It has a lot of Good and some bad.

[Rob Stone]

So you guys are friends, you guys are rivals.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah.

[Rob Stone]

You won a Super bowl together. What was more special, Beating your opponent, your rival three times or winning that soup together? Charles.

[Charles Woodson]

I'll go. I'll go first. Charles.

[Rob Stone]

Yeah, go.

[Charles Woodson]

What a great question. I don't. It's tough to. I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Because they're all awesome. Like. Yeah, you win, like, I don't know.

[Mark Ingram]

You win that super bowl, you a world champion. Yeah.

[Charles Woodson]

That's like the. That's like the apex for football for what it is, so. Which is. That's awesome. I don't think at the time I understood the magnitude of the Super Bowl. Like, I thought, what do you mean? I'm going to win four of these. So we've got Aaron Rodgers, my quarterback. We're coming back and doing it over and over and over again, and unfortunately, I never got back, but as I get older. Yeah, I mean, I can't rank him really, but, yeah, it's good to win. Absolutely. But the first thing I thought of after The Super Bowl 2 was, man, this would be awful to get to the super bowl and lose. That's one of my first thoughts I had after. I was really excited for winning. So. Same kind of thing when you get. When you beat your rivals as well. But I've. Unlike Charles, I actually. I have a loss in the game. I'm three and three and one in the series. I know he's three and.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah. Well, it's a great thing to have both, you feel. I mean, to have the super bowl and to have, you know, beating a team that you, you know, you spend all your time and effort as a young collegiate student to do, but always, for me, it's always about a championship. So whether it's college or the NFL, it's about the championship. I mean, we don't. We don't really. In our time playing, you know, we don't think about just, you know, having one win, you know, during the regular season on your resume, all the work that you put in as a player with your teammates and, you know, the off season and running hills and stadiums or whatever you do, you do it so that everybody can win. And so to get to the highest level for both of us, to make it to the NFL for one, is a feat in his own, you know, from coming from a young man from wherever you're from to make it into the NFL and that being the highest bar, the highest you can get to. There's nothing after that. There's not the NFL, then the NFL beat. You know what I'm saying? So to win the super bowl, to me, was everything, because that's what you. As a kid, when you watch games, you watch Super Bowl, Super Bowl. Watching Jerry Rice, John Taylor, you know, playing against the Bengals and catching the slam, winning the super bowl, like you want to get there. You know what I mean? And we were able to do that. And, you know, that was a great joy in my life to finally host that Lombardi Trophy. And I'm sure, you know, for AJ as well.

[Mark Ingram]

Hey, just real quick, before we gonna get both y'all out of here, we talking about the pros. You both. Y'all played Lambeau Field. My first game ever as a pro. We went to Lambo Thursday night, and me and coach, we've been talking the last few weeks. We're running into this bear zero defense on the goal line, running into the teeth of the defense. Do y'all remember that play at the end of the game when my coach sent me up the middle and y'all D line, cut my O line, and y'all just had six people jump over the top and just stop me on the goal line and ruin my debut as a rookie, My dream as a rookie, y'all, y'all killed it.

[Rob Stone]

Aj, did you get a little piece of that?

[Charles Woodson]

AJ Was right there. Well, unfortunately, the play before that, I almost. I wanted to fight the ref. They called a PI on me. I jumped over Sprouls, and they called PI in the end zone. Given that one play from the goal line. So if I didn't jump over and have something to do with that play, yeah, I would have been cut from the team, probably. But, yeah, it was a good one to win. I'm glad you didn't get in. Mark, bro.

[Coach Meyer]

Hey, hey. Hey, Mark. I probably got the best picture because I jumped. You know, I'm. I'm like. I'm the linebacker because I want to meet the running back in the air. I don't think I hit nobody, though. But I was up there, bro.

[Mark Ingram]

Bro, it was so bad. I'm like, I got set up for failure, man. I still hate Sean to this day for that.

[Urban Meyer]

So good.

[Mark Ingram]

If he would have gave me a flip, it would have been over. I just would have walked into the.

[Coach Meyer]

Pylon like, yeah, yeah, we. We loaded up. We was all coming down here, for sure. Yeah.

[Mark Ingram]

Great.

[Urban Meyer]

Great place to end this one on. But I want to end on a positive note for both you guys. A.J. hawk, Charles Woodson. Thanks, guys, for joining us. Look forward to the game. AJ Give me oh, I O Rob. Attaboy. And Seawood. What kind of day is it?

[Coach Meyer]

It's great. You.

[Rob Stone]

You.

[Coach Meyer]

Oh, man, I don't know. I don't know what your lead in. I never heard that. Lead in.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, you've never heard that. What kind of day it is to be.

[Coach Meyer]

Yeah, okay.

[Mark Ingram]

It's great to be.

[Coach Meyer]

You got me. You caught me off guard, but I said it's great to be able to get Wolverine.

[Urban Meyer]

There you go, boy. All right, guys, thanks for the time. Look forward to to more confrontations, more conversations with you guys and enjoy the game on Saturday.

[Mark Ingram]

Appreciate y'all, man.

[Urban Meyer]

Appreciate you, A.J.

[Mark Ingram]

Appreciate you, Charles.

[Urban Meyer]

Well, as you all know by now, we have teamed up with our great friends at BETMGM this season and we're going to be using BETMGM lines to make all of our picks. We'll also have special offers for our listeners each week. Mark, you're listening, right? You're listening to this? Yeah, I'm listening. Pay attention. All right, so if you haven't signed up for BETMGM yet, we urge you to use the bonus code option or go to betmgm.com option and you will get up to $1500. First bet offer Mark on your first wager with BetMGM, we're talking 1500 bucks.

[Mark Ingram]

Mark 1,500. But here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code option. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. You'll receive up to 1500 dollars in bonus bets if your bet loses, just make sure you use bonus code option when you sign up or go to betmgm.com option it's all about the option, Mark. It's all about the option, especially the triple option.

[Urban Meyer]

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[Charles Woodson]

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[Rob Stone]

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[Mark Ingram]

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[Urban Meyer]

Up to 90 days in advance.

[Rob Stone]

See Uber app for details.

[Urban Meyer]

Welcome back to the Triple option presented by Wendy's Rob Stone, Urban Meyer, Mark Ingram back here with you. Huge news in the coaching ranks came down Tuesday. The University of North Carolina deciding to part ways with the hall of Famer, one of the all time great human beings, Mack Brown. We're going to take a look at Mack Brown's hall of Fame resume presented by ZipRecruiter. Try ZipRecruiter for free ZipRecruiter.com option ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire so Mac, you know started. He didn't start but he made his first noise really in Chapel Hill with North Carolina. Then took his talents to Austin, won the 05 national championship while with the Texas Longhorns. Went into College Football hall of fame in 2018. 35 years as a head coach, 282 wins, a winning percentage of 65%. 26 times he took his teams to bowl games 14 and 12 overall. Remember this is he took over a North Carolina program. His second stint in Chapel Hill after Larry Fedora went 2 and 9 and 3 and 9 and he brought him back to national relevance. He recruited next level talent. You know, look at all the great quarterbacks that have come out of Chapel Hill the last couple years. But it was really a roller coaster this this season. Lost his starting quarterback in the first game of the season. Had that really humbling 70 to 50 loss to James Madison which kind of set things in motion. Coach Brown is 73 years old, had three years left on his contract in Chapel hill and after 16 seasons overall at the University of North Carolina, Coach Brown is done at least in Chapel Hill. I can't imagine he'd have another stop Coach, but him leaving. What was your initial reaction when you heard Mack Brown and Carolina were parting ways?

[Rob Stone]

I just wish that Ma, I know Mac very well, one of my very close friends. We've since 2005, Sally and Mac and Shelly and I are very Good friends and I just wish she would have left on, you know, maybe there's something behind it too. I didn't read all the press. You know, I also know the ad very well. Bubba Cunningham was assistant AD at Notre Dame when I was there. We're friends as well, so it seemed like a really good marriage. But you could see the program start to slip and Max, 73 years old and, you know, I'm going to text him later today and there's a really, you know, he knows that there's a really nice life outside of, of the, the stress and the, you know, data. I mean, it's consumption. So hall of Fame coach, one of the great people, one of the great guy that I looked up to, a guy that I went to see on many occasions about. He was a guy that kind of had still an ounce of work life balance that a lot of us didn't. So Bob Stoops and Mack Brown were two people that I sought counsel from. And it wasn't so much, hey, how you blocking the 4, 3 defense? Or how you, you know, tell me about the spread and the rpo. It was. Tell me about. Because they're Matt Brown and I, I throw Bob Stoops in there as I think those are the. Probably is the most rounded guys, elite coaches I've ever been around because most of them are nuts. Like the guy sitting here talking right now where Mac and Coach Stoops were kind of, you know, they were grounded.

[Urban Meyer]

Hey, Coach Mack Brown was the first guy, if I'm not mistaken, that kind of reached out to you when you were going through some, some challenges in, in the elite level of head coaching, correct?

[Rob Stone]

Yeah, I was hired in 05 at the Gators. And you know, we, we won at Bowling Green, we won at Utah. And Mark knows this, the sec, wake up and that animal. And that's a whole different food taste, different athletes look different, everything's different. And saw me at a press conference after a loss, like an LSU or something, and out of the, out of the blue my phone rings and said, hey, this is Mac Brown. We talked for an hour and as a. Because of that, I do that now to coaches when I flip on and I see someone have a bad loss or I see a look in their eye, I'll just reach out out of blue and say, hey, this is some of the stuff I went through, you know, and then I've heard it's helped some guys.

[Urban Meyer]

What did Mac talk you through? How was his, his questioning and what was he worried about with you?

[Rob Stone]

Well, he had to look, you know, it looked like you. Where in the hell am I? Waking a stranger in a strange land, man. This is. But he just calmed you down. He's just a guy that, you know, he's very strong in his beliefs and he's, you know, hey, there's so many great things in your life, man. Let's move. You know, you lose a game, move on. And his message was really clear to me is that your players are going to be you. So if you have that look in your eye, lose it because your players may have that look in your eye. Whatever you, your confidence or lack of is going to be instantly given to your players and they're going to respond.

[Urban Meyer]

One of the all time great guys in this industry. I had a chance to get together in his office this spring and talk with him and an absolute pleasure to be around. He had not lost his fastball. I mean maybe his fastball was really, really fast in his prime day. But right. I mean he can, he could still pitch it out there. He was still recruiting. He was working his tail off and I wish him good luck this weekend. Closes things out against NC State. He's going to coach in the bowl game. An absolute legend. And there's not many, there's not many Mac Browns left out there. When you.

[Mark Ingram]

A legend in the game. A legend, right.

[Urban Meyer]

Like when you think about guys you would, you would turn to of who do you want to hear from on the state of this and Mack Brown would be one of those voices and now he's got as of now at least one more game to coach. So Mack Brown, thanks for everything you did for call. Yeah, man, thank you. And we look forward to what's next for you. I hope he takes a nice little trip and he's got details with little umbrellas in there. He's a beautiful life coach.

[Mark Ingram]

He's been pouring into young men as he's been pouring into young men and developing young men his whole life. It's time for him to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

[Urban Meyer]

Awesome human being and let me tell you, North Carolina, that is a great job. I know they say it's a basketball school and it is, but I think it can be both. Let's pivot. Mac Brown, thanks for everything. Time now for Pick Six brought to you by BetMGM. Place your money line prop parlay and same game parlay bets at BetMGM. You can download the app today. As always, please gamble responsibly. We've got six games. We do it every week. We pick against the spread, Mark's got his deuce deuce dog of the week. We're going to talk about a little underdog reminder. These lines are current as of Tuesday, so they obviously can change. Game number one, it is time for the Iron bowl mark this year. It is in Tuscaloosa where the Auburn Tigers have not won a game since 2010. Tigers out last week, last week, they now sit one win away from bowl eligibility. Your tide favored by 11 and a half.

[Mark Ingram]

We gotta bring up bad stuff, man. We could have left that 2010 nugget out. That was. That was a nasty nugget. That wasn't no saucy.

[Urban Meyer]

That was too saucy for you.

[Mark Ingram]

That was a nasty nugget. That loss still pays me to this day. But anyways, three of the last five meetings between these two teams have been decided by three points or fewer. So we know no matter what the records are, you could throw them out the window. This is going to be a dog fight. And it come, man, listen, the Alabama defense, I just appreciate them because they've gotten better and better throughout the season. They have been having trouble stopping the run. Give them 257 rush yards to Oklahoma last week. And they have a good back coming in this week for Auburn, man, so they'll need to be on point. They'll need to fix up shirt that run defense. But. But it all comes down to Jalen. Millie Milroe. When he plays the way he's capable of playing, Alabama is the most dominant team in college football. When he takes care of the football, he makes the right reads. We are a tough team to beat. He's had eight interceptions in the last seven games. Had three interceptions last week. I see Alabama getting back on track in this Iron bowl, man, because there's a lot of chirp going on. I don't know if you've been hearing it, man, but there's been a lot of chirp on the Auburn side. You know, they saying this, they saying Ryan Williams ain't one of them guys. They're saying Jaylen Milroy ain't one of them.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, man, do not poke the Ryan Williams there.

[Mark Ingram]

What he saying? Belma ain't one of them guys. So it's going on in the media. They popping their stuff. But hey, I know Belmont, they just getting ready. They behind the scenes. They gotta bounce back, man. Because the last week was detrimental loss, man. So if you want any hope at all of possibly even being one of them three lost teams to get in, you got to dominate this week in The Iron bowl and I got my tie rolling.

[Urban Meyer]

All right, Iowa State hosting Kansas State. Do you guys know what this is? Do you know what time it is? Nope. Upside for Farmageddon. That's right. They have met every year since 1917, making it one of the longest continuous series in college football history. It is also one of just two never interrupted rivalries in college football. Pharmageddon.

[Mark Ingram]

Farmageddon.

[Urban Meyer]

We'll sell you the whole seat, but you'll only need the edge. All right, so the Big 12 as we know, an absolute mess. Listen to this. 250 possible championship game combos exist. Who wants to be the mathematician back in the Big 12 offices trying to figure out who's going to be in the Big 12 championship game. They cannot pay you enough. Nine programs still alive. That includes the Cyclones and the Wildcats. No team controls their destiny. Farmaged and is going to play a big part in it. K State rolled Cincy last week. Avery Johnson looking healthier than he has been for a while. Caused some problems with his legs. Iowa State, remember, had that surprising two game losing streak. Well, they've rattled off two straight wins since last week. 405 yards of offense, 31 points at Utah. At a really good defensive unit. Utah. So they got their offense clicking. They've got the top scoring D in the conference. They've got underrated whiteouts and improving QB Rocco Becket. Folks are going to be talking about Rocco Beck a lot more next season. So it's two evenly matched programs. It's two teams that recruit really the same guys. And in the end home field I think is going to be the narrow difference maker. I like the Cyclones to cover in Ames in pharma. Get it?

[Rob Stone]

That was a lengthy one. Rob.

[Urban Meyer]

You wanted you like. I just tried to sh as much as I can.

[Rob Stone]

I got Texas, I got Texas at Texas A and M and that won't be as long as Rob there.

[Urban Meyer]

Coaches got to go somewhere.

[Rob Stone]

I can tell there is no chance that Texas overlooks and I mean you're going to get the best version. I said that the other day when, when they were throwing a reprieve when there were some losses because Texas was kind of look on the outside looking in one of the best three rosters in college football. They're fairly healthy. It's at A and M and I'm going to say this. I grew up watching this game. Mark and then some power brokers got together and said hey, let's not play this game for a while. Which that just pisses me off when stuff like that happens. But you know, who knows what was behind the closed. What was behind door number two of that. This is a, you know, hall of fame. Legendary coaches and players played in this game. I can't wait to see it. But I think Texas covers. I think you're going to get better and better versions of Texas Longhorns as they run out this season.

[Urban Meyer]

Interesting. The winner of this game, of course advances to the SEC championship game to take on Georgia. Clemson favored by two and a half at home to South Carolina. Yeah, I love closing. You know, it's rivalry week. This is what we do. The Tigers, they're going to be doing some scoreboard watching this weekend. A Miami loss mark would put Clemson in the ACC championship game against smu. But they've got the Gamecocks this weekend.

[Mark Ingram]

I've been riding the dog, the South Carolina Gamecocks with my. It's my underdogs a lot this year and I'm doing it again. But listen, man, Clemson is a really good team and they have. They need some help. They need some help. But listen, K club Nick has been balling accounted for three plus touchdowns in his last three games. The running back Phil Mafa over a thousand yards, eight Russian touchdowns this season. But the defense gave up over 288 rushing yards to the Citadel last week. The Citadel last week. And then you got South Carolina who's one of the hottest teams in the country right now. They won five straight, which is the longest active winning streak in sec. Got the best point per game differential in SEC since week eight. And Lenora Sellers has been balling. Raheem Sanders has been balling. They also have the number two scoring defense in SEC during their five game win streak. But the matchup I want to highlight is those two past Russian phenoms they got to South Carolina, Kyle Kennard and Dylan Stewart going against the Clemson offensive line that has allowed nine sacks in the last two games against four in the last two games against power four teams. So I think they're going to continue that momentum in this game. And I got the South Carolina Gamecocks being my aura horror.

[Urban Meyer]

What you think about Deuce Deuce Dog.

[Mark Ingram]

Think about that.

[Charles Woodson]

Coach.

[Urban Meyer]

Coach is good. Hands up. Coach is good. All right, Coach, I got a question for you. Notre Dame at usc, do you know what they're playing for?

[Rob Stone]

I coached net rivalry but do you.

[Mark Ingram]

Know what they're playing for years.

[Rob Stone]

What did they play for? It's weird.

[Urban Meyer]

It's an odd one. Who. You're close. The jeweled Shalala also Known as the Bedazzled. The Bedazzled walking stick.

[Rob Stone]

I remember that.

[Mark Ingram]

What is a shalala?

[Urban Meyer]

It's a walking stick. It's like a piece of wood.

[Mark Ingram]

And you just like for old person.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah. Or young people. If you just like walking sticks. Oh, whatever. All right, so it's in la. Notre Dame favored by seven and a half for the first time since week one and two. Guys, USC has won back to back games. They took care of their crosstown rival UCLA last week. It was a tight one, not a real pretty one, but it was a win. 1913 Trojans are bowl eligible since they've made the QB change.

[Mark Ingram]

Right.

[Urban Meyer]

They brought in Jaden Mavi, the Trojans 2 and oh, this clearly though is going to be his biggest test for Notre Dame since that stunning early September loss at home to Northern Illinois. The Irish, nine straight wins, that includes dismantling another service. Academy last week pounded Army 49 to 14. A win would when would guarantee them a playoff spot and most likely a home game as well. And so what an opportunity for Notre Dame's west coast rival to perhaps ruin their playoff hopes. Just the kind of win that Lincoln, Riley and the Trojans need to stabilize their program, to stabilize their recruiting area. It's just the type of chaotic scenario that we have seen week in and week out in college football. Right, Right. It's not going to happen. Irish escape LA with the narrow win, but they do not cover coach.

[Mark Ingram]

Wow.

[Urban Meyer]

Let's get to the game. The two winningest programs in college football history, Wolverines have won the last three in this rivalry. But the Buckeyes huge favorites in this one in Columbus.

[Rob Stone]

Yeah, I look at that point spread and that alarms me a little bit. The Buckeyes will win the game. Buckeyes are much better football team. They have better players right now. But there's also, there's a little bit of fight in the Wolverines right now. They played their best game last week. I know it was against Northwestern, but they settled on the quarterback. They look better. I did a lot of homework on this game. And just white, you know, Jim Harbaugh left on the 24th of January mark 24th of January. So the transfer portal was open. I want to say it closed December through January 2nd. There was a lot of. Everybody was talking about Harbaugh leaving. They had no idea who was going to become the new head coach. So all that. Trent. They're going to lose 18, 18 players to the draft or 18 starters. They have serious quarterback issues. And I was like, how do you not fix that. So of the top 25 Transfer Portal quarterbacks, 23 of them were signed and done by the time the new head coach is named at the Wolverines. I'm going to talk about that on Big Noon this weekend because how does that happen? How does a national champion, one of the best teams in the last 20 years, that was a hell of a team.

[Urban Meyer]

Now.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes.

[Rob Stone]

They leave, you know they're going to leave. They're all seniors. That was a senior team. And you're wondering what happened. The more research I've done, I know exactly what happened. If I'm a transfer quarterback, why would I go there? If I'm a transfer receiver, I don't know. You know, who's going to throw it to me? Yeah, who's going to throw it to me? And where's this coach? Who's this coach? What's going on here? And I'm not throwing darts at anybody. I'm just. I was trying to figure out how. How does a team go from one of the great teams of all time? Momentum on your side, obviously, good academic skills, all the stuff you can sell, and you left at the most important position where you're playing. You know, you're just rolling guys through there. So that's just a little history of it. I think Ohio State wins, but I don't know if they cover 21 is a lot of points. I think it's going to be a 20. You know, it's going to be an 18. 19. That's a lot of points. So I'm going to say Ohio State wins, but it's. I don't think it's going to be that close.

[Urban Meyer]

But I'm saying 18 points point spread wise. If Michigan is to upset the Buckeyes, it would be the biggest upset point spread wise in the history of the game. Coach, real quick, I just. We gotta get one. One memory from you about the game. Your. Your moment that stands out for you, that. That will always resonate about the game in Urban Meyer's life.

[Rob Stone]

Yeah, there's two. One is when I'm saw on the sideline for the first time and I see the maize in blue across from me and I actually had a moment like, what in the hell? You're actually doing this. But the greatest moment I think that I've ever experienced is when Curtis Samuel crossed the goal line in the double overtime game. That's the hardest game I've ever coached. Their defense, they were loaded with. That was a Jabril Peppers group. That was NFL players everywhere. It was rugged. We had to drive at the length of the field twice in the fourth quarter to tie that thing up and make a chip shot field goal. And then we won an overtime. And yes, JT Parrot had the first down and Curtis Samuel scored. So that was the greatest moment.

[Mark Ingram]

Coach, we had some tough games, me and you. So if you say that was the hardest game you ever coached in, I know that thing was a barn burner because we had some.

[Rob Stone]

We had some.

[Mark Ingram]

We had some pushy games.

[Urban Meyer]

You know, it's gonna, it's gonna be fun Saturday in Columbus. Coach, you're gonna have C. Wood right next to you on the set.

[Rob Stone]

I really love C. Wood, man. He's a great dude.

[Mark Ingram]

I think he gonna have on that ass.

[Rob Stone]

He protects me in armor. I got him in Columbus.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, you're gonna have his back this week, are you?

[Rob Stone]

I always do.

[Urban Meyer]

Okay. All right. All right. Well, I'm gonna give you the last whiskey next doors.

[Mark Ingram]

We'll be fine.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, man, we might need. It's going to be chilly. We're going to need something to warm us up.

[Mark Ingram]

I might have to wear an ascot this week.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, that's a great idea, Mark. We should all do ascots. All right. Follow subscribe rate us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, as well as across social media at 3X option show. Don't forget, submit those questions and we'll have some of them answered during a future show. New episodes coming your way every Wednesday. Thanks as always to our wonderful sponsors, Wendy's, bet, mgm, and Zip Recruiter. Enjoy rivalry Week, everyone, and tell your mama nil.