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The Triple Option
Ohio State Coaching Staff Raided, The Price of Winning it All, Hall of Famer Dwight Freeney Joins, & Super Bowl Preview
01:00:25
Ohio State Coaching Staff Raided, The Price of Winning it All, Hall of Famer Dwight Freeney Joins, & Super Bowl Preview
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- [00:00]
Urban Meyer
I've never seen a human being swing a golf club as hard as I and I play with. I've seen John Daly. Freeney's a big dude, man, and he's got whatever it is. 2. I don't want to disrespect you. I'm saying 260, 280.
- [00:14]
Dwight Freeney
That's pretty disrespectful right now.
- [00:17]
Rob Stone
Great start, coach.
- [00:18]
Dwight Freeney
As a performer player. 260. How dare you light it.
- [00:30]
Rob Stone
There's the music. Time for another day edition of the triple option presented by Wendy's two phase. For just seven bucks. Gotta be Wendy's. Terms apply. As always, thanks for joining us. Rate subscribe over there at Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Wherever you find your podcast, you can find us on social media at 3X option. Show new episodes every Wednesday on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast. Rob Stone, Urban Meyer. Where's our boy? Where's our boy? Deuce Deuce. You know where Deuce Deuces, don't you, Coach?
- [00:54]
Urban Meyer
He's going to no nola, right?
- [00:56]
Rob Stone
He's a NOLA man. He is running around unsupervised in New Orleans. So we'll get, we'll get him back, but, man, I know we're in the off season, coach, but this is just a testament to how strong this college football product is these days. There is no off season, right? There is constant discussion and conversation going on throughout college football, and I think the big talking point right now is all about the national champions and how they are absolutely getting gutted in the coaching department. The Ohio State, over the course of the last couple days, if you will, lost their offensive coordinator, Chip Kelly, their defensive coordinator, Jim Knowles, to arrival Penn State. They lost the assistant offensive line coach. They lost the head offensive line coach. They lost the assistant QB coach. Are there any coaches I'm missing and are there any coaches left? This is to be expected, but on some level, Coach, it feels borderline unparalleled.
- [01:53]
Urban Meyer
It's not unparalleled at all, Rob. It's. It's a, it's a way of life. It's something that I dealt with firsthand every year. We'd lo to, you know, every two years, we lost a coordinator on offense, usually on defense as well. And I, I made a list. Everyone, almost everyone became a head coach at some point. So reality is that Lou Holtz used to always say, there's two types of coaches, Rob. Ones that people want and ones that people don't. And there's really a big swath in between there. But There's a lot of reality that. And Ohio State had a magical year, you know, with the. The. Obviously the one loss that haunted them. But I mean, that run the offensive coaching staff, the defense coaching staff, the way they do things, and you're. You're not even hearing about what's going on behind the scene, whether it be physical therapists, whether it be strength coach, assistant strength coaches, training staff, academic staff. I mean, I can go on and on and on and on, but the infrastructure, fortunately, Ohio State has the resources and that's reality, and I've dealt with it. And losing a great player is expected because great players are fluid. You know, they come and go. You know, it's. That's this the way it works. You know, you get them for three years and they go the NFL draft. When you lose a great coach, man, I'll tell you what, that I lost a couple that. I mean, it was kind of sucker punch that it took me a while to recover. And then if you don't replace that great coach, the wear and tear on the head coach is overwhelming. And we can speak to that.
- [03:30]
Rob Stone
So when you're a head coach at an elite institution that wins on a regular basis, right, you know, you know people are going to come for you, right? Because clearly, you know, the resume is there, right? You're a winner, you've been part of a winning program. Come do that with us as a head coach. Knowing that these defections are eventually coming. How do you, how do you pre plan, how do you buffer your program from really taking a sucker punch, taking a real strong hit so you're able to reload in the coaching department for the next season.
- [04:01]
Urban Meyer
You know, when I met with Bill Belichick in 05 and it was just starting because I was a Bowling Green and I left, I lost my offense coordinator, became the head coach of Bowling Green. My defense coordinator stayed and ended up becoming the head coach at Toledo. So, boom, right away I started feeling it. I go to the University of Utah, we win two titles, and my offense coordinator becomes the head coach at unlv and I lose my defense coordinator. A guy named Kyle Whittingham becomes the head coach. So that's boom, boom. And I go visit with Belichick and he kept doing this and he kept saying, you know, promote from within. The minute you start bringing outsiders into the inside, you're asking for problems. And I've experienced that as well. And so I would always, from that point forward, I went on the co coordinator rampage, which means I would have Dan Mullen as my offense coordinator. But then Steve Adagio is right behind him on defense. I had Charlie Strong and Greg Madison as co coordinators with the anticipation that one would leave and then I would just keep, I'd keep moving them up from within. And that worked to a degree. But the reality is that, you know, how about these names? Greg Brandon, offense coordinator of Bowling Green, becomes head coach. Mike Sanford, offense court at Utah becomes head coach. UNLV Dan Mullen. Steve Adazz goes to Temple. Tom Herman goes to Houston and Texas. Kevin Wilson who ended up going to Tulsa and Ryan Day becomes the head coach. Those are all my offensive coordinators and how fast that they just moved on. First of all, I hired really good guys.
- [05:34]
Rob Stone
But yeah, take some credit coach, right? You're doing something right. And your coaching tree is what people want to, they want to tap into that. Right. They want to, they want to take one of those saplings from your coaching tree and make it their own.
- [05:45]
Urban Meyer
And then Tim Beck on defense, Kai Witty, he became head coach at Illinois after Toledo. Kyle winning him. Charlie Strong obviously Louisville in Texas, Coach Fickle who's now at Wisconsin. Chris Ash went to Rutgers and then obviously Greg Shiano.
- [06:01]
Rob Stone
So we do a whole podcast on coaches. You've lost.
- [06:04]
Urban Meyer
Yeah. So here's what I want to hit though. This is really intriguing. So you need a way, you need a systematic way to do this. And I came up with this one through five and actually spoke to a corporate client the other day and I shared this with them and they re. The response has been phenomenal. They're going to the system. So there's, you have your whole swath, you have a whole, you know, just big group of employees. And how do you manage that? How do you manage in a systematic way to evaluate it and also pay them? Because every one of these people, now back in the day, they didn't. Everyone has agents. And what's the agent's job? And I get it. It's to get the very most, most for their client. Their, their, their people inflate the market, make sure they're being valued and make sure they're being paid their value. So I came up with one through five. A five is elite. Ryan Day's a five. Dan Mullen was a five, Charlie Strong's a five. I think you get my point. Kai Whittingham is a 5 as 5 as you can get. And so when I would meet year end meeting with the athletic director, I would show the, this, the system. Actually most ads went to this as well. And a five means we're not losing the five. That means it's going to. Could get very expensive for you. We're not going to lose that five. And I need you to help me not lose that five. A four. We can negotiate and have a conversation. A three, it's time to move on. A two, a two, done survive, you know, a one, a one. We don't have ones or twos. Those, the ones or twos don't survive it, as you can imagine. But if it's a five, the only way you leave is to be a head coach. And I think Ryan Day still does the same thing. But that's a systematic way. But I did that for our training staff too. We have physical therapists there. I know he's still there. Stu. You can't lose that guy. He's a five. Our players trust him. You want to, you want to screw up a team, hire an idiot trainer, Hire someone they don't trust with their bodies and take care of them. You want, you want to really screw up a program? You have four or three as a weight coach, you're in trouble. So you have to really go through and make sure there's legitimate fives at the top of the pyramid in each one of your corresponding departments. And, and that's what we did. And what happens is also the coach knows because I meet with a, would meet with a coach. You're a four. I would have them self evaluate. Then I'd evaluate them and it was sometimes uncomfortable conversations and you know, in this day and age where the money is, you know, there was a day, man, when guys are making 25, $30,000, so it really didn't matter. Now you're talking. There's a lot of zeros behind some of these paychecks.
- [08:46]
Rob Stone
Yeah, commas, commas.
- [08:47]
Urban Meyer
So you really, you really want to make sure they're evaluated, they understand where they are. And then also the people that you have to go get the increase in salaries understand with that. So it's expected, but it's, it's uncomfortable.
- [09:03]
Rob Stone
A couple details I want you to further elaborate on. Maybe there's a couple stories because there's so many levels and layers to this. Number one, all right, you're talking about you want to try to hire ideally within. Okay. And I get it. But obviously at some point you might look at those. Withins are threes or three and a halfs, not quite your fours and fives. Right. So how did you go about the course of a season tracking, you know, like I, I know ads. Right. Ads have that have that little drawer in their desk, and they pull out the slip and they say, hey, if Urban Meyer leaves today, here's my top three college football head coaches that I'm going to go after for candidates. Did you have a little drawer and some of the names that you would keep, whether it was players or coaches you coached against or guys you've run across through the years or guys you've lost that you want to try? Bullback, how did you, I guess, quote, unquote, go outside of the program and those type of coaching talents?
- [09:56]
Urban Meyer
Great question. And, and how you did it is. When I was young, you knew everybody. So I had my A's, B's and C's, or five fours, threes. And when I never forget, when I got the Florida job, I called the dream team. I went after every great coach I worked with. You know, Greg Madison was one of the first phone calls. We worked together at Notre Dame, still one of his greatest coaches, Steve Adasio and Charlie Strong. And it was the dream team came together and. But then as you get older, all those dream teamers are either retired or head coaches, and now you're relying on people. And that's where it really gets uncomfortable when people are calling you. And I would never take someone's recommendation without the first question I ask, have you worked with that person? And if it's a no, then thanks for calling. It's usually a friend. Thanks for calling, but this is too important. I'm sorry. I got to go get. I got to find out. And I've made some really good hires. I only made a couple mistakes, and not bad people, just a couple mistakes. So it's. Your comment there is really, really hard. Everybody's got agents. Everybody has, you know, there's a reason why they're pushing this guy. And that's. It's. Man, that's. I'm telling you what you watch, you watch next year. And I got to do this on Big Noon. When team struggle, you blame the player, obviously. But you know what? Behind the scenes, why is this player not playing as good as he did the year before? I can help you. They probably had a coaching change and there's something going on there. And that player is not performing at the level because there's some distrust, which is. It's usually distrust or that the way they're trained or something's going on and you see this player's performance start to dip, and that's a major problem. Another thing I want to hit Rob real quick. And this is the whole hire from Within. When you've got a solid rock of an organization, Ryan Day's got a rock right now, I would imagine. Sarkeesian. You know, some of these guys have built their programs, infrastructures. You know what happens when you want to hire a lead coach. They want to do it their way. And that is really hard to the point where I actually would put signs around the wall, enhance the program, and that means do not change. I don't. And I can. We can have a seven hour conversation on that. But you can't change what we are. The culture, the core value is the way we go about our business, the way we work, the way we practice. You hire people that do it differently and they keep, you know, they keep, let's change this, let's change. And I would always say don't. Don't use the word change. If you want to say a better way of doing it, then show me and let's do it. And that became exhausting to me. And the reason a person's a five, when you go higher a five, because they're really good at what they do, it might be completely different than what you do. And that's when you start to see the conflict. I had a few of those where you're just constant, constant. And you're like, enough, enough. So I think that's really good for the viewer, listener to hear that because I'm sure people deal with that.
- [12:56]
Rob Stone
Coach, there has to be a couple guys out there that you wanted that you swung hard for sure. And for. For whatever reason, you couldn't get them on that dotted line. Who are some of those guys that you always wanted to have on your staff or be associ.
- [13:11]
Urban Meyer
I wish I was ready for that. I'm sorry, Robert. It. Take me. Oh, man. Yeah. There's a couple assistant coaches along our journey that went on to be great coaches. I. You catch me off guard, so I don't. That would make a nice headline if I could think of it right now, but maybe I will as we continue.
- [13:28]
Rob Stone
We'll get you next time. Winners attract winners, right? And you go back a couple years and I know you're a big baseball guy. Right. And you had the fortune to connect with Joe Madden after he won the World Series with the Cubs. I'm a huge Joe Madden guy, but I'm a Tampa Bay Rays guy. So what he did and how he transformed that franchise, you know, I'm forever indebted to him. But what were some of the words and the conversations the two of you guys had about winning a National title. And then how everything kind of changes.
- [13:59]
Urban Meyer
Yeah, I was just with Rizzo at. We played a golf tournament and then also Dexter Ali. Dexter at. And they played for the Cubs national champion or the world Championship. So every year we'd go the Joe, Matt and I became friends with the Rays. He'd actually went to a couple Gator games. And I bring my son Nate down there. We became really close and he's a different duck, but I love the guy and he wanted a winner. So I went to go visit him for about four straight years at the Cubs. I just love the Chicago Cubs. I love Wrigley Field and my son and my family. Usually the whole family went. We'd actually sit in the dugout, we'd walk out in the field, you know, and. And there's a rain delay one time and Joe, man, I go sit back in his office. He invites me back in his office. He opens up a bottle of red wine during the rain delay.
- [14:47]
Rob Stone
I love baseball, right? You can pull that off in baseball.
- [14:50]
Urban Meyer
But in, oh, in 16 he won the World Series. And I, I couldn't wait to go see him in 17. And sure enough, in 17, I come walking in. I came walking in. Dexter Fowler is who I was with. I come walking in and he's miserable. And I look at him, I say, what's what? He goes, I got the same team. Everybody's back. But it's just different coaching. These guys are much harder. It's just everybody changes when you win it all. And I started thinking back to my 08 team. 08 national champion Florida Gator team had everybody back. We went 12 and oh the next year. But it was not fun. It was, it was, it was, it was hard coaching, man. Everybody changed. We won the national championship 14. We had the majority of that team come back 15. And the Zeke Elliott's and Boses and they're all back. We're preseason number one. And we went again 12 and oh, I think or 13 and one that year, but it was so much different. And I think Coach Day is going to have to get ready. And we've already spoke about it. Everything's different. And I think I put it on. This is. We're all human. You gots to get yours is the way I looked at it. Everybody, everybody now has representation. I get it. I mean it's what makes America great is capitalism. You're on the top of the food chain right now. And what does your agent or what do you start looking at other places? How can I better? You know, this is the once in a lifetime. We just won a national championship. And the players change, the coach has changed, the staff changes. And when I saw Joe Madden's face at Wrigley Field, I remember sitting there going, damn. I remember that feeling. You're on top of the world and you're still on top of the world. I believe the Cubs were still in first place when I went to see him. But you can tell the wear and tear on him because it's just, it's different.
- [16:45]
Rob Stone
The red wine replaced by a bottle of Pepto Bismol perhaps. Let's go back talking about Ohio State and the coordinator situation real quick. I want to wrap it, but this fact is amazing. Jim Knowles, who's now the defensive coordinator at Penn State, but when he was in charge of the Ohio State defense, remember they played seven top 10 opponents, held them to an average of 19.2 points per game, 19.2 points per game against top 10 teams. No team has scored more than 32 points against the Buckeyes in the last 29 games. And that made us do a, that made us do a double take try Wendy's 2 for 7 deal today. To me that was a stunning move and I know it's a big number, right? It's a big number that one of your rivals threw and it's sort of like if, if you can't beat him by him. Right. But you know there's going to be turnover coming. Do you think Ryan Day thought that there would be this much turnover in his coaching staff this year that he's, that he's seeing already and who knows? You know, there's always that talk. Larry Johnson, one of the all time great defensive line coaches. Larry's 73 years old. He's also the associate head coach, you know, at any time and there had been some talk about it that he could be moving on from that position. But to the point, do you think Ryan Day anticipated this much turnover in his coaching staff after winning the title?
- [18:10]
Urban Meyer
I think it is for this is his first year of winning the title. So I would probably say no, I would probably say he anticipated maybe some stuff happening. But when you start, the three most important coaches on your coaching staff are the coordinators and your offensive line coach and your fourth is probably your D line coach, slash maybe the secondary coach. That's. Those are ones you miss on those coaches spots. You lose games immediately. I mean, you won't.
- [18:36]
Rob Stone
Those are all spots that Ohio State has to fill now almost depending on, on Larry Johnson. Right.
- [18:41]
Urban Meyer
And, and, and remember to to replace a five with a five, you're going to bring in someone who's going to want. And that's why you got to have these hard conversations when you interview and say we're not changing, make us a little bit better. And I get pissed. And I think about it because a couple times it just wore me out with that like. But when you hire and I think from the triple option, from this point forward, when you hire a five, five's gonna bring stuff with him and he's a five for a reason. And so you as the head coach gotta let him do his deal. But then all of a sudden things start looking differently and, and the culture is. The culture. The way you run the offense, the way you run the defense, obviously they were great on both to start changing things. I don't know man. He's got to be careful. And I actually spoke with Coach Day this week and he's got a playing smart dude, he's got a plan and he's, you know, he's, he's a strong coach, so. But he got to be real firm with enhancing the program, not changing. So he's, he's got a. I can't, I don't know where he's going to go with it. I knew one that he was kind of leaning. I don't think that's still in play. So we'll see what happens.
- [19:49]
Rob Stone
Enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Find those fives, baby. Find those fives. They're not easy to find. Coach, you may have heard there's, there's this kind of big football game going down this Sunday. Yeah. Super bowl champion pro and college football hall of famer Dwight Freeney, your golfing buddy who apparently can rip it from the tees. He joins us next on the triple option presented by Wendy's.
- [20:12]
Urban Meyer
Light it.
- [20:17]
Rob Stone
Right now. At Wendy's you can get two of these favorite items for just seven bucks. But not just any two. I told you. I said favorite items and I meant it. Mark, there is nothing snack sized around here.
- [20:28]
Mark Ingram
Choose from our OG Spicy or classic chicken sandwich. Dave single or ten piece nugs any way you like them. Spicy or crispy. That is three fantastic options. But here comes the hard part. Choosing two. What do you do?
- [20:43]
Urban Meyer
You could go for a spicy chicken sandwich and a Dave single. Perhaps double the spice with a spicy chicken sandwich and a spicy 10 piece nug. Or you could go for the choice you forgot you can make but in an instant changes everything. Two ten piece nugs.
- [20:58]
Rob Stone
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- [21:35]
Mark Ingram
Yeah.
- [21:36]
Rob Stone
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- [21:56]
Mark Ingram
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- [22:25]
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- [23:03]
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- [23:31]
Rob Stone
Welcome back to the triple option presented by Wendy's Rob Stone. Urban Meyer. We are now joined by a Super bowl champion, a college and pro football hall of famer, a proud former Connecticut resident, a guy who did his college in upstate New York, met Dwight. You and I are like one in the same, except for completely different. Dwight Freeney joins us right now on the triple option. Good to have you here. You and Urban were running together just a couple days ago, is that right?
- [23:57]
Dwight Freeney
Oh, absolutely. Me and him were on that golf course struggling together. You know, we bled together on that. On that course, man. It was not easy.
- [24:07]
Urban Meyer
Well, Dwight, we've done it twice now, and I. I'm. Every time I see your name show up, and I love to play with you. However, I'm going to go on record, Rob, that this is the. I've never seen a human being swing a golf club as hard as I. And I play with. I've seen John Daly. And I mean, not. Not just a clubhead speed, but Rainey's a big dude, man, and he's got. Whatever it is. 2. I don't want to disrespect you. I'm saying 260. 2 80. What?
- [24:38]
Dwight Freeney
That's pretty disrespectful, right?
- [24:40]
Urban Meyer
What are you 2.
- [24:42]
Dwight Freeney
It depends on what you're looking. I mean, look, as a. As a performer, player. 260. How dare you. But as a retired athlete. Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [24:51]
Urban Meyer
What are you.
- [24:52]
Dwight Freeney
I'm not in the gym right now. All right.
- [24:54]
Urban Meyer
What are you. What do you weigh?
- [24:57]
Dwight Freeney
You got to go up a little bit. You're like £20.
- [24:59]
Urban Meyer
You just tell you £20 short, so you. Whatever it is. All right, we're gonna throw 280. The torque and the movement. The ground shakes a little bit. And. And we play with these LPGAers, and they are incredible. I'd rather play with the LPGA than the. Than the big boys because the big boys just hit it too far. And I love playing with those girls at the Hilton. Grand vacation, but enjoyed playing with you. And he's also a. He's Michael Jordan's partner on some of those matches that grow. The legendary matches at Grove 23. And he said he's got a day job tomorrow. What time's your day job start tomorrow?
- [25:39]
Dwight Freeney
I get there at 8:45. We tee off by nine, 9:15 latest.
- [25:45]
Urban Meyer
And it's the fastest 36 holes in golf. Right?
- [25:48]
Dwight Freeney
Don't blink. Don't blink. You know, don't. You barely talk. You go ahead and hit your ball and keep moving.
- [25:56]
Rob Stone
Were you playing, were you playing growing up in Bloomfield, Connecticut or up at Syracuse or is this a post NFL thing?
- [26:02]
Dwight Freeney
Well, this, this was, you know, something that I kind of got into towards the, I guess mid, mid, mid part of my career. You know, it wasn't my first couple years, but you know, once I got into like year four or five or whatever, you know, I wanted to pick something up and you know, golf was sitting right there. There's not much, no offense to Indianapolis, but there wasn't much going on, you know, for me there other than those great beautiful golf courses and, you know, the rest is history. I started there and I continued on.
- [26:33]
Urban Meyer
Obviously it's super bowl week and me and you had a conversation. I was at your championship game in 2006 over, over the Bears and that rainstorm that hit, I was actually there with Charlie Strong. That was a month after we won our national championship. And so let' let's go watch them. So here you are, you're a sack leader, you're, you're a Hall of Famer, you're a grown ass man getting ready to go play in a Super Bowl. It's the week before. I can only imagine it's tenfold, hundredfold thousand fold. What a college player getting ready for that national championship game. Plus Those guys are 17 to 19. What do you recall about the championship about that week, about we're getting ready to go make history. What do you remember? Was it, was it, it, it's another game or was it reality that this is not another game?
- [27:23]
Dwight Freeney
Well, I think, you know, you're fooling yourself if you, if you try to convince yourself it's just another game, you know, it isn't just another game.
- [27:33]
Urban Meyer
It's.
- [27:33]
Dwight Freeney
It's that game that you've dreamt about that you prepared for the top of the mountain. The thing that you, you've put every off season workout towards, all the sacrifices on your. And it all comes down to this one moment, which comes a lot of anxiety, a lot of sleepless nights. You can't. You would play the next day, the day after you win the AFC championship, you will play the next day. Because, you know, like by the third time, I went there three times, you know, yet two weeks, right, is the longest two weeks ever. You know, I mean, because, because you just want to get it over with. You want to get there, you hurt, you want to hurry up. But it's one of those moments that, you know, you have to just take, take it all in, you know, and that's what I used to tell all the young guys. Take it all in, you know, because you never know when you're gonna. If you're ever gonna get back. So live in the moment. It is technically just another game, but not really. So let's not fool yourselves. And it's gonna be ups and downs, all right? You're not gonna always. It's not gonna all be blowing the guys out. You're gonna mess up, and. And you're gonna have to face some adversity. But if you put the work in which most of us to get to that point, you did, you know, the good things will happen in that game.
- [28:53]
Rob Stone
What was that moment in the week or two weeks leading up to the super bowl that confirmed to you that this is not just another game?
- [29:02]
Dwight Freeney
No, I mean, it starts from. From the moment you win. You know, you got the ticket requests, and I would just say for any guy, I'm sure they're going through it. If you have a significant other, let her handle that, all right? Because you got everybody from who knows who that you hadn't Talked to in 10, 15 years hitting you up for super bowl tickets, the hotel accommodations, everything that you go into that week, it's just amplified every single moment. I'm talking practice, the media attention that you have to give, all the little sites that you have to visit while you're there. You know, the coaching staff, if they do a good job, they keep you away from that and try to keep you closest to your routine as possible. But it's still impossible because, you know, they have obligations that they. They have to. That we committed to as an organization in the team. You have to. You have to kind of grow the game. So you have to go out there in front of the camera, even if you're not a camera guy, you know, so it's a lot going on into that game. We normally, as players can't wait until kind of like that Wednesday, Thursday of the game week, because that becomes more of what we're used to. But that whole week that just left. Oh, my God. You can have it.
- [30:15]
Urban Meyer
Yeah. Hey, let's talk about your alma mater for a minute. And I. I know everyone realizes you were part of that. Paul Pascalone, Kevin Rogers, Dazio, Donovan McNabb. That was when Syracuse. There was times. Syracuse top five program. You've hired his young cat, Fran Brown. I don't know him, but I love his bravado. I love the fact that he's going after people. I remember, I think he told one coach, keep my Keep our name out of your mouth or something. And, and then you take Kyle McCord and you know, he said, I'm a buy Ryan Day a bottle of champagne or something like that. But here's a guy that I think every, you know, a program like a Syracuse, they need something, you know, they're not always going to get the five star athlete. So you get a five star coach, a guy that's going to go out there and he's going to put his cleats in the ground against anybody. I see the players following his lead. What do you see out of Fran Brown?
- [31:07]
Dwight Freeney
Yeah, I mean, Fran is an amazing guy, first of all, he's a real guy and what I mean by that is there's no bs, you know, he's one of those guys will tell you exactly how he feels. No filter. I mean, a little filter, but no, no real filter, you know, and, and I think a lot of guys can gravitate to that. A lot of kids can gravitate to that. Just the realness that you hear from his voice and how he acts and how he talks, you know, you have sometimes you run into coaches who give you coach talk, let's just call it, you know, and it's just not the real. If you suck, say I sucked, you know, if you, you know, and that's just what it is. If I was great, tell me I was great. But don't sugarcoat it and all those types of things because it's not helping me. And I think that's kind of the type of guy that he is. You know, he keeps it real with the players, he connects really well with the youth. You know, the youth can see, the players can see probably themselves in him a little bit because of the age. And he's a little bit closer to maybe age wise, being in his 40s, younger coach than somebody who's in their 60s or whatever it is. So I think a lot of players kind of can relate to him.
- [32:20]
Rob Stone
10 win season. They open up the campaign in August in Atlanta against Tennessee. Right. A chance to make a statement right out of the gates next season. What is your involvement level with the Syracuse football program right now?
- [32:34]
Dwight Freeney
Well, it's actually more than it's ever been. You know, it's been, it's been kind of interesting, you know, as an NFL player being in a locker room. We had this thing called, you know, man law bet. All right. And what that basically was is, you know, whatever school you went to, if somebody else in the locker room went to that same school, you have to put, you have to bet a hundred dollars regardless if you know they're playing or not. And someone just walks up to you and says, hey, give me that 100, we won. And I remember for about 10 year period, I would run my ass away from anybody I knew.
- [33:10]
Rob Stone
Try to hop, when is Florida State week? When is Clemson week? Run for the hills.
- [33:14]
Dwight Freeney
Listen, I am going to be missing in action. If I see that guy coming down the hallway, I'm going the other way until at least that week is over with. Because once the week is over with, they can't come and get that hunted. It's too late, you ran out of time. So that's kind of how it's been for me. But as of late, if I was still playing, oh, I'm going to walk up to every single guy. God, let's go. Remember, there's a bet this week, but it's great to see it, you know, and I'm going to be involved a little bit more in the organization. You know, I talk to Fran from time to time, whatever he needs. You know, Bruce Smith told me one time, you know, hey, look, all the knowledge that he has is in for him to hold on to is to share with others. And I really believe that, honestly. So if there's something that I could help one of these young pass rushes, D linemen or D coordinator or whatever it is to help my team, my school, get back to being where we think that we should be at, I'll do it.
- [34:08]
Rob Stone
So, so what does Syracuse need to do to get back up into that conversation and in the day and age that we're in right now to get into the College Football Playoff conversation?
- [34:17]
Dwight Freeney
Well, I just think it's consistency, you know, you have to have some consistency from a coaching perspective and the players perspective, knowing what they, what the standard is. I mean, a B, you have to have the guys, you have to be able to recruit the guys. And I think now it's a little bit different, you know, obviously with all the money that's getting thrown around. So you're going to have to cash somewhere to be able to entice those types of players to come to your, to your school. But once you get there, it's still, it's still about, you know, X's and O's, it's about who works harder, you know, and there's been a lot of guys who hadn't been highly recruited and made big things happen in the college game and the pro game and our hall of Famers. So it, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a, you know, five star, whatever. It's about the work that you put in. And if you don't have the coaching staff and the people around you and that system that you can go in and you can kind of grow as a player, then it don't matter. You could be whatever you want to be, but you're not going to turn out to be anything.
- [35:15]
Urban Meyer
You know, we had a great conversation on the golf course about the 34 versus a 43 Dwight, that was incredible. And the, the 43 defense. Dwight, Trini, you're a Hall of Famer because of it. They would have stuck you in a 3 4. You would have probably figured a way to still be great. But, but as an offensive coach and you agreed with this. That was interesting. When we talked as an offensive coach, the one defense I did not want to see was a 34 getting ready. The multiplicity of all the different looks, the stand up, you know, there's so many different variations of the defense. It was four or three. You knew where they're at. The problem I had every year, every January, I told you, every February, we reevaluate. And I said, screw it, I'm going to go to a 3 4. And then all of a sudden I'm looking, I got Bosa, Bosa Chase Young, Sam Hubbard, Tyquan Lewis, Jalen Holmes and those cats don't want to play, you know. You know, near the end of your career, you told me the story. Here's, here's a guy's got 100 sacks, he's going to be a future hall of Famer. And they bring in someone, they said, hey, we're going to move you to a 3 4, which means rob, he's going to be standing up. And the look on Dwight's face on about the 16th hole when he was telling me about, he's like, wait, what in the hell, I'm not going to do this. You know, he's obviously respectful. And then he started working his way. Hey, do you mind if I getting a stance? Tell us that quick story about the 3 4.
- [36:36]
Dwight Freeney
Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I mean I was already well established in my career and it was me and Robert Mathis and then all of a sudden, you know, we got a new regime, new gm and you know, they wanted to switch up our entire defense. And I'm not saying that our defense was, you know, the greatest all the way around, but you know, we had some cornerstones that should probably have stayed in the same position that they've always played and, you know, they decided, hey, you know what, let's go to a 3, 4 scheme. And it became okay, so what does that really mean? Oh, no, Dwight, you need to stand up. Okay, I've never stood up before, but okay, I'll do that. Coach, whatever you want, whatever you ask, I'm going to do it. I'm not that guy. I'm going to sit there and say, hell no, I'm not doing it.
- [37:21]
Urban Meyer
Pick some.
- [37:21]
Dwight Freeney
No, listen, you asked me to do something, I'm going to try. Well, I got in the stance, 3, 4 stance. And if you don't know about defensive linemen and what they look at and what they key, we have blinders on, okay? We are focused on kind of, you know, the line, the offensive tackle that guard the ball, and that's all we see. You know, you can't really see it all, but when you stand us up, all of a sudden you're seeing all this stuff that you've never seen before. Here comes that motion, here comes the tight end, all this stuff. And then we have to key it off into tackle. So if you're not really used to. It becomes just seeing too much. And what happened is while I was going through this process of trying to change who I was into something else, I kind of stumbled over that a little bit. To where, though, I had to ask the coach, hey, can I put my hand back down on the ground so that I can get focused and get the. Get off that I know I got and all that, rather than standing up and trying to figure out how I get off the ball that way? Well, look, that works great when it's a pass and you're rushing, but it doesn't work so great when it's a pass and you're dropping. So I think it wasn't probably the system for me, and we had some tough times, and probably that's what ended up happening, was I ended up leaving the team that next year. They didn't resign me, and I understand why, because they wanted a 34 guy. It wasn't me.
- [38:45]
Rob Stone
Can we talk about one of my favorite human beings, Tony Dungy? And I had the great fortune to be a cub reporter back in Tampa, Florida, when Coach Dungy took over the Buccaneers and. And I was in there with the previous regime, and then I was in there with the Dungy years, and that's SAP and Derek Brooks and Allstat and John Lynch. I mean, just some legendary humans in that program. And the way he changed that program, the way he changed that locker room still resonates with me and his calm, quiet demeanor and the amount of respect that he doesn't ask for, but you feel like he is owed immediately. I say the words Tony Dungy to you. What, what comes to your mind?
- [39:35]
Dwight Freeney
I mean, you know, you kind of described it, you know, he, he transcends the position of coaching. He goes to a whole nother level of father figure, you know, it's not just about football, you know, and, you know, he's one of those coaches that I don't have a whole bunch of these guys, but, you know, he was one of those coaches where when you messed up, you're upset, not just because you personally just messed up, you're messed up. And you've. You let the coach down because he's that type of guy where you would do anything for him.
- [40:05]
Rob Stone
How did he do it? I still don't, I don't know how he did it. Dwight.
- [40:09]
Dwight Freeney
It's the reason.
- [40:11]
Rob Stone
Is it an aura? It's a, it's his presence. I don't know what it was.
- [40:15]
Dwight Freeney
It's just that he treated everybody like men. Men. He didn't feel like he needed to scream and yell at you, you know, and this is such a, you know, type of, I don't know, what would you call it, kind of militaristic type of game that we play where, you know, it's coaches screaming, yelling, dog cussing you out because it is aggressive game and most coaches do that. And he was one of those guys that never felt like he needed to. He's not going to call you out your name. He's just going to say, hey, you know what, son, this may not be for you. Go get somebody else. It's okay. And it's just. And it's okay. That way you don't. You can still get a lot done and treat everybody with complete utmost respect, you know, and some coaches like to yell and scream. Maybe they just can't help themselves. It is what it is. I mean, I've had both and it's. I'm not saying anything's tremendously wrong with the guy who likes to yell and scream. Maybe that's more. That's how he decides he wants to motivate his players. Tony never had to do that. He could motivate those guys just based on treating them all like men. And if you were walking down the street, he wouldn't yell and scream at you then. And the coaches probably wouldn't yell and scream at a stranger. You just probably talk to the man, just Just. Just how you say, hey, how you doing? Oh, no, sir, that's not how you're supposed to do it. Whatever it is just like a man. And that's how he talked to everybody, and that's what we respected about him, is just because, you know what, just because he had a coach and he was the head coach, he didn't have to treat us any differently. And then, men, he didn't have to talk down to us.
- [41:42]
Rob Stone
Back to super bowl week with Coach Dungey, how did he approach that, that buildup? Did you notice anything different or just some. Some messaging that maybe might have been unique or wasn't in his normal conversation?
- [41:56]
Dwight Freeney
Yeah, listen, man, Tony was just right here, right here. Not too high, not too low. He stayed right there. And it gave us confidence. You know, it was anything new. He didn't make anything up. All of a sudden he come out there yelling and screaming, no, that's not him. You know, and, and, and we respected that. And it gives us confidence when coaches come, coaches who he is, and we're going to be who we are. That's just how we do.
- [42:21]
Urban Meyer
All right.
- [42:22]
Rob Stone
How did, how did you become a golfing partner with Michael Jordan? I. I got to figure this one out. Give me the genesis of this one, man.
- [42:30]
Dwight Freeney
Basically. Basically 2003, I think I got invited to his invitational that he used to have in the Bahamas, right? So this is usually around the time. I kind of, you know, picked up a club once or twice, and I got invited to his invitational. And while I was there, I've met one of his best friends. One of his best friends lived in Indianapolis. Obviously, I was playing for Indianapolis. So his best friend comes up to me and, hey, man, you know, big fan. You know, MJ's my. My friend, one of my best friends. Hey, man, we'll. We'll be getting together here soon. I said, okay, great. Played the tournament, whatever it was. And then the off season came along, and me and that best friend stayed in contact. And then. So what happened is when they go on trips, wherever they used to go, they used to call the young guy young kid, which was me, 2004, 24, whatever I was. And, you know, they'll. I'll tag along on the little trip, you know, whatever it is, you know. And that's how our relationship started to grow. Show was through his mutual friend. His best friend became one of my good friends, and they just called me along because I was basically his next door neighbor. So I would just tag along. And then that's how our relationship grew. To where we are now.
- [43:37]
Rob Stone
So when you're golfing with Jordan, do you have to come loaded with cash or is Zell and Venmo accepted?
- [43:46]
Urban Meyer
You don't have to answer that, Dwight. Plead the fifth.
- [43:51]
Dwight Freeney
But this way it's definitely an old school type of.
- [43:55]
Rob Stone
All right.
- [43:56]
Dwight Freeney
You know, I've never heard anybody use Zell, you know, Zell or any electronic type of payment system. And if you are using that, you're probably not going to be be here long at the club. So you might as well take a picture because you probably won't see the course again. So just, just come with cash.
- [44:14]
Rob Stone
Oh, man. Coach, what's the sound effect when Dwight is on the tee box?
- [44:20]
Urban Meyer
It's not just the, the. Well, usually when you play with someone that swings that hard, you hear the, you know, you hear the, you know, the wind and the how fast he swings and then obviously the ball sounds like an explosion. That's not even it. It's the torque. It's the. He almost comes off the ground. And the first I try to not watch it because then it just, you know, especially if I have to go when she was playing so, so much better me that day. So I just, I'm like, damn, I gotta follow that again. And I just. The shaking and I'm like, what did I just watch? Yeah, no, it's great. I'll tell you what, there's not a better guy to play with and hang with than Dwight. Trini, man, I love the dude. So great hanging with you, man.
- [45:00]
Dwight Freeney
Hey, man. Same here, boss.
- [45:02]
Rob Stone
Dwight, thanks for joining us this week on on super bowl week. Plenty more super bowl conversation to come up on the triple option. But Dwight Freedy, man, thanks so much for taking time on super bowl week to join us on the triple option. Appreciate it, man.
- [45:14]
Dwight Freeney
Thank you. Thank you for having me me. Y'all take care. Light it.
- [45:23]
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- [46:51]
Rob Stone
Welcome back to the triple option presented by Wendy's the Urban Meyer Rob Stone. Back here with you, Mark Ingram. We hope, right? We hope deuce Deuce will make it out of New Orleans in good shape and he'll be back with us next week. Time now now to talk about that big game in New Orleans with Pick Six brought to you by BetMGM. Place your Moneyline prop parlay and same game parlay bets at BetMGM. Download the app today, please. Gamble responsibly. Again, these lines as always, subject to change. So, coach, here we go. Eagles taken on the Chiefs. We're gonna look to get involved in the action courtesy some of these numbers, some of these prop bets from betmgm. And one of the things folks love to bet on, even if you're back home, like making those squares like on the boards and everybody's putting in a couple bucks is the coin toss. Heads.
- [47:37]
Urban Meyer
The coin toss.
- [47:38]
Rob Stone
We're talking, we're talking about the coin. We're not talking playoffs. We're talking coin toss. Heads and tails, both at -102. I'm curious, when you were a head coach, did you ever have like superstitions where you told your captains, hey, dude, it's got to be heads every single time or we're making way, way too much of this.
- [47:58]
Urban Meyer
I had a lot of superstitions and people would fun of me because I'd always reach grass and you know, because I was in charge of kicking game and I would see which way the wind blows y and they'd even laugh. We're playing in Annapolis in the I do it and I always do the same thing and people say, coach, you, you're inside. What are you doing? There's no wind. But. And I look at them.
- [48:19]
Rob Stone
They could have the Heaters or the air conditioning on.
- [48:23]
Urban Meyer
Very superstitious. But no, I never. When I was a captain in high school, I called heads all. I was a heads guy, but now heads guy not. I didn't mess with that. I let the players, that was their time. And no, I didn't. I didn't know people bet on that. That's great.
- [48:39]
Rob Stone
Oh, for Coach. They'll find everything to bet on that bet. MGM's got. Got loads and loads of stuff. But I do imagine though that you said, hey, whether this was across the board or certain games, we want the ball first. If you win, we want this or we want that, right?
- [48:54]
Urban Meyer
Oh, sure. Yeah. Every game I ever coached, it was, you're going to defer. The only times you didn't was whether or you're playing an inferior opponent. You know, if you're playing weather, and I would have a weather report of if you saw something bad rolling in that second half, give me the ball. We're going to go try to score. If you're playing an inferior opponent, you always want to take the ball first because you just want to, you know, you want to go score and get your players, you know, because in halftime a lot of times they don't play. You know, I'm talking about real, real inferior. And that was the only two times other than that, you know, analytics and just the, you know, the idea of playing defense, first field position, especially if you got a good defense. So that's what we'd always do.
- [49:34]
Rob Stone
Okay, all right. So we're going to move on from heads and tails. Let's talk about like a genuine MVP candidate and Saquon Barkley, man, what he's been able to do, averaging 168 yards per game in the playoffs. Bet MGM is setting his over under rushing at. At 126.5. They always throw that little 0.5 in there to really kind of screw with you. So 126.5 at minus 1 15. Wow. So do you think I went on. Was it last week or two weeks ago when the Eagles were in the NFC Championship game and you guys all went with the commanders, you felt like the good vibes of Washington were continuing. I said, saquon's going to run, baby. He's going to run all over. And he was the difference. So 126.5. If. If Philly is going to win this super bowl, they are going to win it because of Saquon Barkley. Kansas City knows it. They know they've got to take him away. So I say he goes under. He's so talented. But I think so much of the Kansas City defensive focus is going to be on stopping Mr. Barkley. So I say he goes under 126 and a half. What about you?
- [50:43]
Urban Meyer
I'm saying under for two reasons. Spagnola, the fourth defense coordinator of the Chiefs and then their D line coach, Joe Culling Cullen was with me and as a, as a coach, as XMA coordinator, he's tremendous. You can stop the run. I mean this guy's a superhuman. I think they're going to, they're going to really dare them to throw the ball a lot and really stop this cat. I think I got it under. I think you'll I. He's one of my favorite players. I coached against him for three years and every time we tackled him, you're just like who? Thank you.
- [51:14]
Rob Stone
Dodge that bullet.
- [51:15]
Urban Meyer
Right. Got him. Yeah. And we actually, we played him well. He had that opening kickoff against us.
- [51:20]
Rob Stone
Yes, he did.
- [51:21]
Urban Meyer
And I almost fired a kickoff covering coach, but that was myself and I was an idiot that kicked the ball to him.
- [51:28]
Rob Stone
But other than what are you thinking, man? That's not a fight. That's not a decision. A five makes. That's a two decision, buddy. That's a two decision. All right, let's get to the actual game. The Chiefs are favored by one and a half points two years ago. Remember this is a rematch, right? Two years ago they beat the Eagles 3825 coach in that game. Two years ago, 115.1 million viewers for the Super Bowl. That was a then super bowl record. It was broken last year, right. The overtime win for the chiefs over San Fran. 123.7 million viewers. And that number could go up this Sunday. And for those of us who are employed by Fox, let's hope it goes up. That's only good things for us. So Chiefs favored by one and a half. Patrick Mahomes going for his fourth Super bowl win. All of this before he turns 30 years old. Andy Reid looking for his fourth Super bowl as well. We're going to talk about the Andy Reid factor in a moment. But number one, Chiefs favored by one and a half. Do they cover and who do you like?
- [52:36]
Urban Meyer
I mean I stare at is Vegas. Amazing that when you have to double take it, you know, even the 126 when they, you know where he's averaging 1265 yards.5 and it's the over unders at 115 that makes you think they know that's right on that number 1.5. I'm going to go with the Chiefs. I just again, I think the quarterback, Mahomes, Andy Reid, I know the coaches. I know that defense coordinator and I know I actually talked to Joe Cullen yesterday and I can tell in his voice that, you know, there's some, you know, they're going to get that third win, which is. Takes your breath away way.
- [53:12]
Rob Stone
Yeah, yeah, I, I think the Chiefs take it as well and they cover as well. And I think it's probably going to be by close to double digits. How about that? Let's talk about. I know, I know. Let's talk about Andy Reid and this, this, this relationship that he has with Patrick Mahomes and, and you and I were talking about in our production crew earlier. You know, there is a resemblance as far as a conversation is concerned with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Right. You know, those two are forever intertwined as, as being a team, particularly a team that wins multiple Super Bowls. Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes are going to be there as well. But the numbers, you know, relay a different story. Coach, I'm going to bark these numbers out to you and I'm curious, you know, what comes to the top of your head. So, Andy Reid with Mahomes, as you would expect, spectacular. 106. Just 26 losses, three Super bowl titles. Think about that. 106 wins, three Super bowl titles, just 26 losses. Andy Reid without Patrick Mahomes, not as good, but not awful by any stretch. 195 and 136. 13 playoff appearances, one Super bowl appearance. All right, so obviously the numbers look better with Mahomes, as we would all expect. Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, the two of them together. Six super bowl wins, which is. I can't even believe That's a sentence. 249 wins, 75 defeats. Bill Belichick, now the head coach at the University of North Carolina. Without Fox Sports broadcaster Tom Brady, he is 83 and 104. So a pretty big swing. You hear those numbers and what jumps out at you. Hold on, hold on. Before I get the expert, here's what jumps out to me. Quarterback matters. You got to have an elite quarterback to win Super Bowls, otherwise it is really, really hard. And yeah, there's a couple of exceptions out there. You know, this is no offense to the Trent Dilfers of the Brad Johnson's of the world, right? But these are not guys that we're talking about going into the hall of Fame. You know, Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes we are talking about hall of Fame type caliber. And that's why every program, every NFL team is always after a quarterback, whether they desperately need one or they only kind of need one, or they might need one down the road. So you hear those numbers read with and without Mahomes, Belichick, with and without Brady, what jumps out?
- [55:42]
Urban Meyer
Well, I remember Coach Belichick. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, and he was a coach of the Browns. And that didn't go great. And then obviously, when Tom Brady left the Patriots, it didn't go great. And Tom Brady wins in a world championship for the Tampa Bay team. Team. I'm per. I know coach both coaches fairly well. The one thing is, Alex Smith played for. My guy played for Coach Reed at Kansas City. So I got. I used to ask questions, and he would tell me about him. And I saw Alex Smith, who.
- [56:11]
Rob Stone
He did.
- [56:12]
Urban Meyer
He did okay under North Turner as an OC at the 49ers, but really other than that, not. Didn't do much because the program wasn't very good. He goes to Kansas City and takes off, becomes, you know, an excellent player in the National Football League, actually, I believe, tutored Patrick Mahomes, a young Patrick Mahomes. So the reality is, when you say Coach Belichick is not the same coach without Tom Brady, I'd say, well, of course not. My God, what are you talking about? Tom Brady is the greatest of all time, and I can see that. So is it. Is it player or coach? It's both. But of course it's player. But I'm going to say this. There's a lot of great players that have never lifted up that Lombardi Trophy. And so the minute you start just saying player, player, player, I get it. And I'm not disagreeing because the opposite's impossible. The op. You know, a great coach without great players, but a great player with a mediocre coach or not a very good coach. It might be able to be done, but not really.
- [57:15]
Rob Stone
Yeah, I think it's a fair assessment. That's a fair assessment.
- [57:19]
Urban Meyer
But Peter Belichick wants to call it the Tom Brady Trophy instead of Lombardi Trophy. That was pretty cool.
- [57:25]
Rob Stone
Yeah, I could buy that or give it a slash. Right? Give it to both of them. You know, I mean, there's. That's. That's really interesting because you do want to honor the history in the past. But guess what? You know, Tom Brady is part of the history of the NFL, and he is the Super Bowl. Who knows? Maybe it'll be the Lombardi Brady Mahomes Reed Trophy.
- [57:45]
Urban Meyer
Let me say this, if this kid wins this super bowl, the world's going to change a lot. I mean, he is now officially right in that same conversation. Officially in. He's not far off now.
- [57:55]
Rob Stone
And he's not 30.
- [57:57]
Urban Meyer
He's not 30. And he didn't, he didn't win a bunch of games at Texas Tech. I mean, that's where I'm like, what are we doing?
- [58:07]
Rob Stone
So they found him. Man, talent is everywhere. Man, talent is everywhere. Make sure to follow subscribe rate us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast podcast as well as across social media at 3x option show reminder. Submit your questions anything you've been wanting to ask Mark or Coach or myself. We are going to start firing up the mailbag segments coming up in the future, so please send us your questions. As always, thank you to our great sponsors Wendy's and BetMGM and we will see you post super bowl next week on the triple option presented by Wendy's.