Past, Present, and Future of NCAA Enforcement, Penn State's James Franklin Joins, & Florida Preview

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Triple Option - "Past, Present, and Future of NCAA Enforcement, Penn State's James Franklin Joins, & Florida Preview"

Release Date: June 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Triple Option, hosts Urban Meyer, Mark Ingram II, and Rob Stone delve deep into the evolving landscape of NCAA enforcement. Joined by special guest James Franklin, the head coach of Penn State University, the discussion spans the history of NCAA infractions, the introduction of a new College Football Commission, and a comprehensive preview of the Florida Gators' upcoming season.

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NCAA Enforcement: A Historical Perspective

Mark Ingram initiates the conversation by comparing minor infractions like "butt dials too much pasta" and "rogue cookie cakes" to significant NCAA violations. James Franklin offers a personal anecdote, recounting how a simple gesture of making cookies for a player led to an NCAA reprimand during his tenure at Utah in 2003 (02:20).

Franklin provides a detailed overview of the NCAA's tiered violation system introduced in 2013:

1. Level One: Severe breaches like academic fraud and obstruction of NCAA investigations.
2. Level Two: Significant breaches, such as failure to monitor systematic violations.
3. Level Three: Limited violations that provide minimal competitive advantage.
4. Level Four: Incidental issues with no competitive impact (07:37).

He emphasizes the shift from a binary system of major and secondary violations to a more nuanced approach, highlighting the complexity and the need for fair enforcement.

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Notable NCAA Infraction Cases

The hosts and Franklin assess several high-profile NCAA violations using the tier system:

• SMU Death Penalty in the 1970s: Consistent infractions involving a slush fund resulted in the cancellation of the 1987 and 1988 seasons. Franklin rates this as a 5 on the severity scale due to its long-term impact on the program (13:23).

• Reggie Bush and USC (2004): Improper benefits led to vacated wins and scholarship reductions. Franklin initially rates this between 2 to 3, noting the competitive advantage tied to player inducements (14:56).

• Ohio State’s Jim Tressel Scandal (2010): Trading gear for tattoos resulted in severe penalties, including probation and scholarship reductions. Despite this, Franklin rates it as a 1 due to negligible competitive advantage (15:57).

• Tennessee (2019) & Arizona State (2020): Both cases involved Level One violations with significant penalties, including show cause orders for coaches. Tennessee's case is rated as a 5, while Arizona State's is between 1 to 2 due to the nature of the infractions (18:20; 19:44).

• Michigan's 2023 Scandal: Allegations of illegal scouting and evidence destruction are pending NCAA rulings. Franklin discusses the potential competitive advantages, such as knowing opponents' signals, rating this scenario as a 1 pending further investigation (24:14).

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The New College Football Commission

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the formation of a new College Football Commission aimed at overhauling NCAA enforcement. James Franklin expresses skepticism about the commission's effectiveness, citing concerns about:

• Subpoena Power: Franklin argues that without enforceable penalties, subpoena power lacks impact. He emphasizes the need for criminal repercussions for lying to the NCAA to ensure compliance (27:00).

• Unionization and Legal Commitments: The absence of legally binding agreements preventing litigation undermines the commission's authority. Franklin highlights the need for a binding document to ensure adherence to rules without resorting to lawsuits (29:12).

Urban Meyer shares his optimism but acknowledges the gap between theoretical frameworks and practical enforcement. He believes that the inclusion of third-party enforcers, such as former judges, can mitigate conflicts of interest inherent in peer penalties (35:03).

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Recruiting Dynamics in Modern College Football

Transitioning to recruiting, James Franklin discusses the competitive nature of securing top talent. He emphasizes:

• Daily Monitoring: The importance of staying updated with recruiting rankings and competitor tactics.

• Star Recruits and Their Impact: Franklin shares anecdotes about high-profile recruits like Patrick Peterson and C.J. Spiller, underscoring the significance of five-star recruits in shaping program success (56:48).

• Modern Challenges: The evolving landscape of recruiting, including social media influences and high school athletes' autonomy, presents new challenges in maintaining competitive advantage.

Mark Ingram highlights the visual and behavioral aspects of recruiting, such as LSU's Tristan Keys' public antics, questioning their impact on team dynamics. Franklin advises a balanced approach, focusing on individual player decisions and maintaining program integrity (59:28; 60:48).

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Florida Gators Season Preview

The latter segment features an in-depth preview of the Florida Gators, analyzing their performance and prospects for the upcoming season.

• Previous Season Overview: The Gators finished with seven regular-season wins and a bowl game victory despite quarterback D.J. Lagway's injury late in the season (63:02).

• Expectations and Challenges: Franklin discusses the high expectations in Gainesville and the strategies to overcome them, including leveraging returning starters and enhancing team cohesion.

• Recruiting Success: Florida's recruitment rankings, bolstered by additions like LSU's Top Five star commitments, position them favorably against traditional powerhouses like the SEC (55:39).

Urban Meyer commends the Big Ten's recruiting prowess, noting that the addition of Pac-12 teams like USC and UCLA strengthens the conference significantly. He also touches upon Penn State's consistent performance and the challenges of maintaining high standards (57:54; 49:56).

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Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with a light-hearted exchange among the hosts, reiterating the importance of adhering to NCAA rules and the ongoing changes in college football's regulatory environment. James Franklin emphasizes the need for transparency and accountability to foster a fair and competitive landscape.

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Key Quotes

• James Franklin on NCAA's Tier System:

  "Level one means institutional control inducements, obstruction. That's major. Major violation... Level four... lacks competitive issues." (08:35)

• Franklin on SMU's Death Penalty:

  "I would guess, you know, because nothing was ever proven. But the more research I found, we saw a very flawed system." (07:22)

• Urban Meyer on the New Commission:

  "This is going to be something where decisions are going to be made and made swiftly... similar to a major league baseball model, an NFL model." (37:15)

• Franklin on Recruiting:

  "As long as they're keeping score, we're going to try to win." (56:48)

• Meyer on Big Ten's Growth:

  "Whenever you're able to add a USC, a UCLA, a Washington and Oregon to your conference, you could make the argument this is the strongest the Big Ten has ever been in its history." (48:00)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Triple Option offers an enlightening exploration of NCAA enforcement's past, present, and future, underscored by expert insights from James Franklin. The discussion highlights the complexities of maintaining integrity in college football, the pivotal changes introduced by the new College Football Commission, and the relentless pursuit of recruiting excellence. For fans and followers of college football, this episode provides a comprehensive understanding of the forces shaping the sport today.

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For more insightful discussions on football and beyond, tune into The Triple Option every Wednesday on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. Stay connected with us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook @3XOptionShow for bonus content.

Transcript

[Urban Meyer]

Got to say, I think our two running backs, I think those guys may be a little bit bigger than our guy.

[Rob Stone]

They should be. Because I'm retired.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes, I am.

[James Franklin]

Just a.

[Mark Ingram]

When you.

[Urban Meyer]

When you got. When you got the guns out and you don't look retired like that.

[James Franklin]

That.

[Urban Meyer]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. You don't see. You don't see me and Herbs doing that. Retired guys don't do that.

[James Franklin]

Light it.

[Mark Ingram]

The triple option presented by Wend. Head to the Wendy's app to get a $1 JBC or a $1 double stack with offer and additional purchase. Wait, where's Mark? Don't we need Mark to hit the beat for us? Mark will join us a little bit later. He's Urban Meyer. I'm Rob Stone. Welcome to the triple option. Remember to rate. Subscribe at Apple Podcast Spotify. Wherever it is that you get your podcast as well as across social media, you can find us at 3X option. Show new episodes coming your way Every Wednesday on YouTube and wherever it is you get your podcast. All right, coach, I'm going to start with a question for you this week which is going to lead into our main conversation. What do butt dials too much pasta and a cookie cake offered to recruits have in common? But dials too much pasta, a rogue cookie cake. What do they have in common?

[James Franklin]

I'm going to throw it out there. Probably violations of the Nash ncaa.

[Mark Ingram]

So yes, all of them had been self reported infractions by schools to the ncaa. That is insane that that staff people are. Are living under the fear of serving somebody too much pasta. They sit on their phone and accidentally butt dial a recruit.

[James Franklin]

All right, quick add to that. So I'm the head coach of Utah and Shelly would always get the player of the game. She'd make cookies for him. So Brandon Warfield was our tailback. This is 2003. He got player of the week in the Mountain West Conference. Shelly made him cookies. Our compliance guy turned her in. And I got a letter. I wish I would have saved it. I think she did. The letter said that you committed a violation and you're going to be reprimanded by your husband. I kid you not. So that I guess that kind of leads us where we are today.

[Rob Stone]

It is.

[Mark Ingram]

It is. I have tears in my eyes right now because it is so ridiculous and, and kind of this fear factor that, that coaches and staff members have to have to live under with, you know, all these bylaws and all these rules. And this was not where we were going this Week. What triggered it was Michigan is still sitting out there waiting for a final ruling. They finally had that hearing about the sign stealing scandal over the weekend of June. The NCAA president, Charlie Baker, he wasn't at the meeting, did say to expect a final ruling in 30 to 90 days for the allegations that occurred all the way back in the 2023 season. Which if. If you're a Michigan fan, you're like, come on, man.

[Urban Meyer]

Right?

[Mark Ingram]

Like, what is. What is taking so long? Get this going. Well, you combine that with the college sports commission coming in to monitor infractions for money, you know, the whole nil and handing things out. So we wanted to discuss the current system under the ncaa, how coach helped mold it and how we got to this point. So let's start though, Coach, going way back, that moment in your career where infractions, if you will, first really came to light right in front of your face.

[James Franklin]

This is a topic I'm very passionate about, and I'm glad we're hitting it. You know, remember the. One of the things that I believe that the triple option does educate and light. We have fun with it, but it's enlightenment we're going to give you. Mark Ingram gives us stuff that most people don't know, and I can do that because I spent 38 years in it. So it all started my coaching career. I was at Ohio State, and then I went to Illinois State, Colorado State, Notre Dame, Bowling Green, as a head coach, Utah. And then I got hired in the SEC at Florida, 2005. The NCAA almost was an imaginative figure. You know, we never dealt with the ncaa. You took a test once a year. You passed the test, you went on. You didn't even deal with violations. At Bowling Green, you weren't dealing with violations.

[Mark Ingram]

Coach, what was. What was the test? Just like a test on what the.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, they gave you a rule book. And it was actually. It was a real test. You had to study it for that a week. On that thing we had, the compliance people would come in twice a week, I think, and they'd give you practice tests because if they fail the test, you can't recruit. And this went on for years. The rule book was that big and the things you just mentioned. And it was, you know, it was. I actually thought it was okay. You know, it was kind of made sense. And it made you study the rules because there were a lot of, you know, rules that are important, but rules that genuinely were not. But you better. You better cover it. So. So I get hired in 2005, and I get to the SEC where the intensity level is unmatched. I mean, the recruiting is 365. The donors, boosters, everybody is. You're talking about there's six to eight teams in the SEC that expect to win a national title. There's no other league like that. And you get down there and I mean, I was, I was hit right in the face with it. Every day I was in to see our compliance director and say, is this really happening? You can't do this. And they're. And it was like, you know, drinking water through garden hose that with myself and our, our compliance director and, and then I befriended someone named Julie Rowe, who's the vice president of enforcement of the ncaa. And I, I became a person that we had great conversations with. And, and from that point forward, I want to say from 2010, really, 8, 9 is when I really started to get involved because I couldn't disagree with more with this. And it became, it came, it became to the point it was impacting our ability to get players, which has an impact on the win loss record, which has the impact on your career, which has an impact on the financial stability of your family. So you can see the, the waterfall that takes place. And I obviously, I felt very close with the Mac Browns and Bob Stoops and other guys and we would have these conversations and like, what in the hell is this school doing? You can't do that. And it went on and on and on and on. So I would say this, that a lot of them were allegations, I would guess, you know, because nothing was ever proven. But the more research I found, we saw a very flawed system. And I give credit. Julie Rowe and I work together and this is. I know I'm giving you a lot of information, but back prior to the tier, the tiers of violations, Rob, it used to be major and secondary. Those are the only two types of violations. And the swath is too big. The minor violation is what you're talking about. Inadvertent text message cookies to the star player. The major violations are called competitive advantages. And that means this can help you win a game because you're cheating or you're, you're violating. And the most obvious is inducement of players or paying players. That's the most obvious, but it's much more.

[Mark Ingram]

So that was kind of the old, old system, right? It's just two windows, right? Minor and really bad. You started getting involved in this. You. Did you write something on a cocktail napkin or something, something in your Gainesville home?

[James Franklin]

No, we. So they, they came to see me. Who's that? Ncaa. And Julie Rowe and one of her assistants came to see me and. And I started writing things down about, say that this. This here is not. This doesn't give an advantage. You know, I give the example of cookies or. Or inadvertent text message or, you know, silliness. You know, this is. Because, all due respect, the ncaa, they're not in the. They're not in it. And I think we really helped put together. And then Julie and her staff came up with the tier four tiers, which we can talk about. Number one is the most egregious. Level one means you. Institutional control inducements, obstruction. That's major. Major violation. Number two is less. Major. Number three is significant. Less. And then number four, tier four violation is silly. It's. Or not silly. It's just something that. There's no competitive issues.

[Mark Ingram]

Right. Inadvertent, isolated infractions which you have to.

[James Franklin]

Which you have to address, but certainly not penal. Number one. And I made this clear for many, many times I learned from day one is that you lie or obstruct the ncaa. You know, if you lie to the NCAA and you don't cooperate and obstruct their investigation, that's. It's over. And the question I have, and obviously with this guy admitted, is that still in place?

[Mark Ingram]

Right. So let's just bullet point these four levels of infractions just to make it digestible. As you mentioned, Coach, level one, severe breach of conduct, lack of institutional control. As an example, academic fraud fraud, failure to cooperate with an NCA investigation. All right, so that's the worst. Level two, significant breach of conduct, failure to monitor systematic violations that do not amount to a lack of institutional control. Then it starts lessening a little bit. Breach of conduct is Level 3 violations, limited in nature, providing a minimal advantage, recruiting or competition. And then we end with level four, just those incidental, odd issues, as we mentioned, inadvertent and isolated. So that's. That's what you were working with at Florida and Ohio State. Right, Those four levels.

[James Franklin]

Right. And then it directly correlates to the enforcement or the penalty. And remember, this started in 2013, so I was already gone from Florida. This was already. This was when I was in the Big Ten Conference. And so I really felt like the NCAA had a handle. I really did. I kind of felt like, okay, they're not treating the inadvertent text message like a significant competitive advantage. And I kind of felt the college football world getting a hold of themselves.

[Mark Ingram]

And how long did that Feeling last.

[James Franklin]

It lasted until 2015, until it became litigated. And Tom Mars is the famous attorney, I believe, and I know there's other attorneys probably, but everything became litigation. And I actually spoke to Julie Rowe today, and I asked her that question. I said, when did we lose it? When did we lose control of this thing? And she said like I did. She really felt that we were getting a grasp of things because again, the SEC is the most competitive. It's not even close. And when I first went to the Big Ten, I almost like, well, I challenged everybody. So, you know, you guys think we recruit, we don't recruit. Compared to down there. Down there, it's a fricking street fight. I mean, every day you come in in the sec, you're in a street fight to recruit. And why? Because the expectations are so much greater in the SEC than anywhere else. I think the Big Ten has caught them to a degree, certainly the upper half, in my opinion. The other conferences aren't close as far as the competitive all the way down. Eight teams are expected to win a national title in the South Eastern Conference. And that's when I was exposed to this intensity for 365. So 2015, things became litigated. And then it got to the point where. Where we are today, which is the topic of discussion. There's this new college football commission that is going to be an entity that James Franklin, I believe, said that he thinks this eventually take over the enforcement of the college football world, which the skepticism from people I've talked to, including Julie, is real.

[Mark Ingram]

Let's do an exercise, if you will, and. And we're going to flash back to some memorable, memorable moments in punishment in the ncaa. And I want you to rate them on a scale of one to five. And number one being like, why. Why are we. Why are we in talking about this? Okay, let's start with, you know, the OG of NCAA punishment, the death penalty. Back in the 70s, SMU, they were maintaining essentially a slush fund. By the way, I didn't know what a slush fund was until I got into college. And a slush fund in college serves a great purpose if you're socializing and having fun. But if you're trying to work it through a football program, not so great. This slush fund was paying recruits, current players. Again, SMU had been put on probation five times. Right, coach? So this is a consistent infraction that they're doing. The NCAA ended up canceling their 87 season, and then 88. SMU is like, we just don't have enough guys because everybody just left the program. All these schools came in once SMU was told that their season was canceled and just started plucking players. So it essentially killed two seasons. And then it took them a long time for SMU to get back. So on a scale of one to five, what SMU did, one being, you know, just kind of negligible. Negligible, and five being just awful. Where does that one sit?

[James Franklin]

Oh, that's an obvious five. You know, especially repeated offender. And the way I always looked at it, and I shared this with the ncaa, Julie, and the president of the NCAA back in the day, is that that's the way you have to look at this. Is this the risk reward is we're human beings, Everything's risk reward. So are you going to say this is going to help us win a game and it gives a competitive advantage over your opponent? If it is, that's closer to a 5. If it's negligible, a bag of cookies for the player of the week in the Mount West Conference. That's a minus one. That has no competitive advantage whatsoever.

[Mark Ingram]

By the way, does the death penalty in your eyes still serve a purpose?

[James Franklin]

No. With the litigation, the amount of money that's. Think about the 70s. Now, you didn't litigate back then. I don't believe you did. Once again, I'm not an expert. I wasn't around much.

[Mark Ingram]

Certainly not to the level of now.

[James Franklin]

No. And the amount of money that's being, you know, back in the 70s, I mean, team. Teams could barely. You didn't have training table. You know, now you're. You're talking about, you know, the nil and budgets and coaches making millions of dollars, players making millions. So it was a much different animal back then.

[Mark Ingram]

Okay. All right. So that was the SMU, our friend Reggie Bush. 04 USC, Reggie receiving improper benefits and gifts. Again, that's Reggie. The football team vacated all the wins from the 05 season. Final two wins of the 04 campaign. Banned from postseason play in 2010 and 11 and lost 30 total scholarships, scale of one to five.

[James Franklin]

And remember, Pete Carroll left. I mean, this was a major, major deal. But I, I don't know if it was. If it was a Reggie Bush issue, then it was a three. Two. You know, I, it wasn't a competitive. You know, that was good for Reggie, I guess. Or. I mean, it was. Reggie was benefiting. But if they use that in recruiting for other players, then it a one. I don't, I don't understand. I don't I don't know that case other than obviously Reggie lost his Heisman. I believe he got it back and they took down banners of national champions. So, so I, I would say on, on the COVID that's a 2 to 3. If it was inducement for other players, it becomes a five.

[Mark Ingram]

Gotcha. 2010, the Ohio State. This was the whole trading gears for tattoos. Terrell Pryor certainly involved in that. Jim Trestle, the head Coach received a five year show cause $250,000 fine. Forced to resign as head coach. Buckeyes vacated all the Wins from the 2010 season. They had a 2012 postseason ban and a reduction of five scholarships over three years.

[James Franklin]

It was actually nine scholarships.

[Mark Ingram]

Nine scholarships. This is trading gear for tattoos coach.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, this was. I know this one well because I lived it. Our 2012 team went undefeated and had a. Was, was not able to compete. We would have played Notre Dame for the national championship that year. So it was very punitive. Jim Treso, who I know. Well, once again I know this, this case because I lived it. I was hired directly after Coach Tressel resigned. And on a competitive scale, it's one. There's no competition. Competitive, Competitive advantage. There were some players that were trading, from my understanding, which I do know, they were trading memorabilia for tattoos. So a competitive advantage.01. There's nothing there. Was it wrong? Yes. Jim Trussler was accused of lying and the, what I understand is that the accusation was that he signed a letter like we all had to sign back. I don't know if they still do it that say you're not aware of any violations and he was aware of this, he ended it and as a result. So I, I think it's a one. But the inconsistency of that penalty is to this day still bothers me.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, inconsistency is kind of a buzzword through this conversation, by the way. You remember the days when Sports Illustrated would come out once a week and you couldn't wait to get it in your mailbox and see who made the COVID Your thoughts when Jim Trestle made the COVID of Sports Illustrated?

[James Franklin]

Yeah. To this day I still hold a grudge about that whole thing. I know Jim Trestle, I know I followed him. So I know exactly what his program was all about. And that was wrong. I mean that was, that was a mistake on a lot of fronts. The support Trestle received in Columbus I don't think was fair. And certainly the National. It's, it's, it's actually a joke, to be honest with you. And so remember now, competitive advantage negligible. None. There was none.

[Mark Ingram]

So the tier system gets introduced in 2013. All right, so now let's talk about some punishments that were handed with this tier system in mind. We go to 2019, Tennessee, level one violations. Direct payments to recruits. Over 200 violations over a two year period. Punishment vacated. Wins $8 million fine, five year probation, 28 scholarship reduction. Head coach Jeremy Pruitt given six year show cause scale of one to five.

[James Franklin]

We should clarify what show cause means, too.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, that was my next question.

[James Franklin]

Show cause means that if a university wants to hire Coach Pruitt, you have to give us show cause why we should hire him. They have to fight it. And if they don't fight it, then they can't hire. That's my understanding what a show cause was. Because there's certain coaches out there right now that have a show cause. And it doesn't mean you can't coach. It means you have to show causation to hire the guy. That's my understanding essentially, though, that.

[Mark Ingram]

That you're handcuffed. You're handcuffed out of that game.

[James Franklin]

Right, right, right. And I think it is. You can't coach. I don't know if anyone's ever defeated a show cause, but that's something that remains to be seen. Tennessee 2019, on the level of one through five. That's a five. I. I was familiar because I heard from colleagues and also some people on the inside what was going on there. And you know, stuff and McDonald bags or you know, whatever I heard is that it was inducement to get players, which. Does that have a competitive advantage? Yeah. What the hell are we talking about? Of course you do.

[Mark Ingram]

All right, 2020, Arizona State again, level one violations for hosting players on campus during the COVID dead period, given a four year probation, vacated win, scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions. Assistant coach Antonio Pierce received a show cause. So what Arizona state did in 2020, on a scale of one to five, one light five, really nasty stuff that they did.

[James Franklin]

Right. Level one Covid violations. That's. That's not as bad as a five of stuff and money, but it's significant. You're getting advantage. Is it a competitive advantage? Yes. To what degree? You still have to recruit them. I don't see that they were inducing players with money. I don't see that there, but it was. It was significant. So I would say one minus to two. So that was fairly significant. Not as bad as the ultimate, which is inducing players with cash.

[Mark Ingram]

Okay. The Wolverines in 2020, Level 2 impermissible conduct or contact rather with recruits and players during that restricted Covid period that was then upgraded to Level 1 because Coach Harbaugh intentionally disregarded the NCAA legislation and was shown to have some unethical conduct. School put on three year probation. That started in 24. Whatever. By the way, what is three years probation? Right. Just.

[James Franklin]

Well that's, that's we're going to find out because there's another one pending. So probation. My understanding is when you're on probation, you become a repeat offender. That's. That is a.

[Mark Ingram]

That aggravate.

[James Franklin]

We'll talk about mitigating versus aggravating here a second. And that is a aggravating addition to the. If there's another penalty. So I look at the 2020.

[Mark Ingram]

Well, there's more to it, Coach. Let me add to it real quick. So, so we mentioned the school put on a three year probation. Coach Harbaugh given a one year ban and a four year show cause. Assistants Jesse Minter, Steve Clinksdale plus two members of the recruiting staff also given show cause. So NCAA that they came down pretty hard with those show causes.

[James Franklin]

At least they did. And it was, it was back. This is the other thing that we have to discuss is the subpoena power versus you know, the expedition expediting. This happened in 2020.

[Mark Ingram]

Right.

[James Franklin]

So the penalties went out I believe this past year. So. Or I guess the year before they were suspended.

[Mark Ingram]

Probation started three games.

[James Franklin]

Yeah. So I look at Arizona State 2020 and Wolverines 2020. It looks to me like the same. Like it's the. Was it a competitive advantage? Y a one plus like or a five plus like paying players? No, but is it a competitive advantage? Of course it is. You wouldn't do it. So the, the thing that. And since day one is the intentional disregard or obstruction of investigation or unethical conduct. That is the, you know, that's been from day one as your graduate assistant, you learn that. So that was crop. It says right there it's upgraded to level one.

[Mark Ingram]

Let's talk 2022. USC again, level two violations for exceeding the number of allowed coaches for two years, one year probation, $50,000 fine they were given.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, that's. To me that's a three. It's something you should do. But it's. Is it a competitive advantage? I guess depends how good those coaches are. If they're horseshit coaches, it doesn't really matter. But if they're good coaches like I imagine there were. So I mean it's, it's more than just a misdemeanor. To me that that's significant, but not enough to be a level one. It's a level two, which is right.

[Mark Ingram]

Okay, Coach, let's go to the alleged infractions, which really kind of triggered today's conversation. Michigan, again, 2023. We're still waiting on what level of infraction this will be. Still waiting on NCAA punishment if there will be anything. But we do know this is being viewed as a repeat violation. And this, of course, is the whole Conor Stallions situation where Stallions orchestrated that scheme to illegally scout future opponents. The NCAA is investigating whether Michigan violated rules prohibiting in person advanced scouting and other unsportsmanlike activities. There has been some fallout from this already, of course. Jim Harbaugh famously suspended the final three regular season games of 2023 by the big Ten. So the com. The conference did that to Coach Harbaugh, but he did return for the Big Ten championship game, the college football playoffs. And of course, they went on to win the national title in season. Though linebacker coach Chris Partridge fired for destroying evidence. Sharon Moore, the current head coach, has offered to be suspended for two games this season, trying to kind of get ahead of potential punishments. So one being a minor infraction and a. And a random butt dial to a recruit. Five being really egregious. Where does this one sit?

[James Franklin]

Well, this to be determined. This is ongoing, so I don't think all of us understand. Did it really happen? You know, there's a couple things that are for sure happened. You know, when I still laugh, when I think about Connor Stallions dressing up like an assistant coach on the other sideline to videotape rival Michigan State, that I. It's got to be. Maybe there was a movie. I think someone said there was, but that's. How. How does that happen? And then, you know, I got into it with some colleagues, even Fox colleagues. You know, wow, coach, everybody does that. I was like, everybody does what? And I even made some calls. I said, have you ever heard of this for. And they're like, no. But whether other coaches have done that before in the past. Some people out there say, some reputable people or Bruce Feldman, I think, told me, or someone, well, this does happen to other places. I was like, bruce, I've never heard of this before. So a lot of this is to be determined on the surface. Is it a competitive advantage to know the signals of your opponents Illegally? You got them illegally? Of course it is. You know, you don't get. People have to understand that when you say signals, there's only a couple signals. You can get that fast in real time. Is it a run or a pass? Is that significant? Hell, yeah, it is. It's a tremendous advantage. It changes the entire technique of your defensive front, linebackers and the sec. Everybody knows a pass, that's a completely different story. And then the whole right or left, if they know it's a run to the right or run to the left, and that's why I understand the advantages are, you know, to say it's going to be a. You know, they're throwing the ball across the middle. That's not. They don't know that. What they do is know if it's a run or pass and if it's right or left. Okay? That's the advantage for a defense. For an offense, it's all about the blitz. If they can signal to the offense and saying a blitz is coming, you know, either from the boundary, from the field, or from an internal. And that's an. That's a hell of an advantage. So if you can get that kind of information in real time to your players, and that's still to be determined, if that was really happening, and we all hear that it was, then that is a one. And then obviously, when you start seeing destruction of evidence, those kind of things, that's, you know, I'm just reading through it. So this is all to be determined, which, again, is not the purpose of this entire conversation we're having today. It's going to be, where are we at now? And why is this College Football Commission coming along?

[Mark Ingram]

So there's a lot of risk, reward, right, Coach? I. I assume. I mean, heck, you do that in. In everything in. In coaching, you know, is calling that play worth it? But, you know, people are creative these days and age and, and with the pressure to win and. And the paychecks that are sitting out there, this isn't going away, right? Like, the. The College Football Commission isn't going to just make this be something.

[James Franklin]

Well, I think we need an old clarification.

[Mark Ingram]

People are going to be creative in finding ways around rules.

[James Franklin]

And I talked to Julie Rowe at length about this, and by the way, she's willing to come on and visit with us. Rob. And I think that's something we should do, because what's the purpose of our conversation? Are we criticizing? Are we. No, no, we're enlightening people that have a very sincere interest in college football where this. That's what we're doing. And the new commission, I was led to believe that there's subpoena power and that's A game changer. There is two game changers in our world. One is subpoena power. One, what does that do? That forces you to tell the truth or there's going to be some kind of criminal element to that game changer. You want the truth? Subpoena someone. And you have to, because if you lie, there's going to be. That's a criminal offense. And the number two thing is the unionization. Everybody signs a piece of paper, a document. Not a piece of paper, a legal document that says they will not litigate. And whatever the commission decides the enforcement or the penalty is, you take it and you move on. My understanding is that's not exactly what's happening, what Julie said. And we have to do further research on this. The NCAA currently has subpoena power, Rob. I really didn't understand that. There's no teeth to it because there's no penalty. You lie to the NCAA right now and they can't prove it, you're not going to jail for lying in a courtroom in federal and state jurisdiction. You put your right hand on the Bible and you raise your left hand and. Or raise your right hand and put your left hand Bible that you are now, you know you're in criminal territory and you're going to pay the price of a criminal. That's not the case at all. So she feels very skeptical, like I do, that the subpoena power still has no bite to it. And then finally, she's not seen the document, the legal document that says that we're all in. And she's the commissioner of the Horizon Conference. So there's a lot of skepticism that this is just a shell game. Now, I'm not saying it is because we're still finding out, but this new world order, I don't know, we might have to pump the brakes and find out more details.

[Mark Ingram]

How can we lose that skepticism in you, Coach? You know, what is it that you need to see?

[James Franklin]

I need to see subpoena power. And there's only, you know, you heard conversations where the United States government, you know, Congress can get involved. If they do and they give you real subpoena power, you're going to see expedite expedited penalties, you're going to see enforceable penalties. But Congress, in case you haven't turned on the news late, there's a lot of stuff going on and. And whether. How much a recruit gets paid right now is not one of the top concerns.

[Mark Ingram]

No. So the big takeaway here, of course, is do not accept Shelley's cookies. Right. As a baseline when Shelley's come or.

[James Franklin]

She has to be reprimanded, which I want to get into that.

[Mark Ingram]

Just walk away from Shelley and her cookies, man. There is so much more to come in the world of enforcement in college football.

[James Franklin]

One last, one last thought about this. And Julie Roll said that this is all, this is really great way to look at it. The old model was presidents ran the NCAA and enforcement, there are the rotating committees. And I asked this question, she said peers penalizing peers is non sustainable. It doesn't work. We know that. And the new version, she was saying, it's much different now. A lot of what she did is the NCAA now has former judges and other third party people that do not have the human element involved.

[Mark Ingram]

Do you think so?

[James Franklin]

If that makes sense. A president of one university is not going to penalize a, a friend at another university.

[Mark Ingram]

Do you think the presidents are all right giving up that power, though it is still their school, right, that they're in charge of that?

[James Franklin]

I think if you want, you know, and I, I could, you know, I, I've worked for some great presidents and I work for one or two not great ones. But I mean, to me that's. You want to find the source of some issues in college sports, it's that when your coach doesn't work with the NCAA or in, in basketball. I heard stories about where coaches just said, I'm not talking to the ncaa. And you're like, wait, what? How's that happen? So I think, yeah, I think the presidents of universities, I know certainly coaches are the number one offender, but their boss has got to be held accountable as well.

[Mark Ingram]

Good conversation. Kind of stumbled on that one. Coach. Way to do your research. By the way. I'm, I'm expecting you to like, break some recruiting news coming up now.

[James Franklin]

I'm done. I'm done with that.

[Mark Ingram]

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[James Franklin]

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[Mark Ingram]

Welcome back to the triple option presented by Wendy's. We are excited now to take you to Happy Valley and bring in the head coach of. We are. All right, there we go. The head coach.

[Urban Meyer]

I don't know if somebody else was going to jump in there.

[Mark Ingram]

Oh, man, we're all in on this one, man. Coach James Franklin, kind enough to join us. Summer, man, thanks for joining us. We've been hunting you for a while, coach.

[Urban Meyer]

Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be on.

[James Franklin]

I'm going to jump in knee deep with this. Right. They, they had a bunch of feelgood questions. I'm not going to do that. I, I remember me and you would sitting in Big Ten meetings and we shared the same concern for, you know, the, the rules and the who's fallen, who's not and the compliance etc. And then all of a sudden I see that this college commission's come out with these guardrails for rules and the whole world's act like, okay, finally we have rules. James, I started in 1982, probably around when you did. They handed us a rule book that thick and every rule was covered in there, but people didn't necessarily follow them. So what's going to be. I. I keep. Okay, there's no tampering, no paying players, no extra benefits. I got news that's been around for a long time. So do you see this changing? Because there's an entity outside the NCA and people I'm understanding have to sign and say we're in. But I'm going to hand it off to you right now. Rules without enforcement, you might as well might not as well have them. So what's your thoughts?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, Coach, I think we both kind of had a similar experience from the standpoint. We both were in the Big Ten meetings together and we had also both been SEC head coaches. So we kind of had a unique perspective on all these things. And, and I'm not shocked, Herbs, that you're not easing into this interview. Right. That does not surprise me one bit. But yeah, I, I think what the, the hope is, Herbs, is that everybody's going to have to sign in and agree to this. And then with that, you're basically saying if you want to be a part of this, that you're agreeing to all the rules and how everything needs to play out, the guidelines of how we're all going to operate within this system. And with that, from what I understand, you're not going to be able to sue if you want to be a Part of this you're in. And if you don't want to be a part of it, then, then go play somewhere else, whether it's NAIA or whatever it may be. But I think your point is a good one. There is going to be an entity and an arm that is going to be on enforcement, and this is going to be different than anything we've all experienced because they're going to have subpoena power and, and they are going to act and act swiftly. This is not going to be one of these things that we've all kind of grew up with under the NCAA where it goes on for two years. And a lot of times the coach is gone, the next coach is coming in and having to deal with it, myself included. This is going to be something where decisions are going to be made and made swiftly. Very similar to, I think, you know, maybe a major league baseball model, an NFL model is what they are trying to bring to college football. So I think in theory, herbs, I think you'll like what they're trying to do. Now, as we, as we both know, the theory of it and the reality are two different things. And there's going to be some growing pains, you know, as we work through it. So have you, I'm hoping.

[James Franklin]

Have you seen the document? Have you. You and your ad talked. Is it a legitimate doctor saying that you, like Tom Mars is not going to be suing the NCAA every three weeks or not? The ncaa, the college commission? Is that what you're saying is that there's. I didn't know that. That part I didn't understand. The subpoena power, which is huge for expediting issues. And then number two, if it's no litigation, we're in, is that what's going to happen then? Do you see any teens balking at signing this thing?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, I, I think people are going to have a hard time of not signing it because I think it's going to start with the commissioners and the presidents. Right. And everybody's going to want to be a part of this because obviously there, there's financial implications to all of this as well. And how are you going to be on the outside? Right. So I do think everybody is. Is going to sign it. Now, what we're signing, I have not seen yet. I think that's at a presidential level, an athletic director level. But even when we were at Big Ten meetings, that still, that still not was something that was out there for all of us to see that they're still working through the details. I think a Lot of this, they were waiting until the judge, you know, formally made the decision. And then there's the implementation committee, partly from the NCAA commissioners, athletic directors, that are part of implementing, you know, basically the house rules. And it's going to go from there. So we're still learning. Herbs. I'm still learning every single day and getting more information. But what has been explained to me, I think they're, they're hopeful is the best way to describe it, that we can move in this direction.

[James Franklin]

And last question I handed off to Mark is that so this is just nil, right? This, this has nothing to do with the other nonsense, you know, or the, you know, NCAA is still going to handle, whatever it may be, other issues within the sportsmanship and rules, is that correct?

[Urban Meyer]

So the way I kind of understand it is this is revenue sharing rules and nil rules kind of are all under this umbrella. But I would also say, Coach, that I really think it's pretty much going to be everything. I think football is going to be run by this entity.

[James Franklin]

Wow.

[Urban Meyer]

I don't want to use the, you know, the term like that. We're breaking away, but I think, I think football is going to be run by this entity.

[Mark Ingram]

Does that include things like playoffs?

[Urban Meyer]

Coach yeah, I think at the end of the day, everything is going to fall under this umbrella because the reality is right now, you know, it's going to be the Big Ten commissioner, the SEC commissioner and this entity. You know, people are going to get upset when I say that, but they're going to be the ones running it. And obviously other commissioners from other conferences is going to have a voice as well. But I think the challenge, and Coach Herbs knows this, is in the old days under the NCAA structure, Penn State would have a vote, Ohio State would have a vote. They'd be the same. But then an FCS school or a smaller school, one AA school, would have a similar vote under the NCAA structure that we would. And you'd be trying to get things passed and you try to get rules involved, and they were trying to treat us all the same, and we're not. So I, I think we're trying to get kind of to more of a structure now where we're making decisions that are in the best interest of major college football, and I think we're close to achieving that from the way it's being described to me.

[Rob Stone]

Coach, we've seen kind of like a common theme the last couple of years of the national champions is Ohio State and Michigan kind of getting their core leaderships, their core guys to come back and return. And we've seen that happen with you in Penn State. Just my first question is, what went into these like, exit meetings for you to get these guys to buy in and get the whole team to like, say, hey, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna forego my senior year and go to the NFL. I'm gonna come back and try to accomplish special, something special with this team and with this coaching staff. What went into it? How did you get that mentality and that mindset going within your returning players?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, to be honest with you, it really wasn't that because really back to coach Herbs question too. That's a big part of this, right? We're having these conversations during the playoffs. I'm trying to retain my team during the playoffs. And, and that's the challenge. We're trying to get rid of this so you don't have the transfer portal open during the playoffs. We should be totally focused on trying to win a championship. And instead I'm having conversations to try to keep the team together. So it wasn't like getting the whole team together and say, let's, let's come back. Well, the season hadn't been over yet. Guys were having to make these decisions before that. So it really didn't play out that way. It was really just one conversation at a time. And as we've done for years, you sit down with the players and you sit down with their parents and you have all the information from the GMs and the scouts, you're being projected as a third or fourth round draft choice or a fourth and fifth round draft choice. And we've gotten to the point where we got guys that don't feel like they should leave Penn State unless they're going to be a first or second round draft choice. So they want to maximize their experience in college. It may be finishing their degree. It, it may be coming back to improve their draft stock. It may be also having an opportunity to make a run at a national championship. It's all of those things and what we talk about too. You know, with team success comes individual recognition. And, you know, you look at the teams that are the most successful, they're able to get those guys back like you mentioned, and they're focused on the team first and then all these other things that are going to come as a byproduct of the success that the team has.

[Rob Stone]

And just one follow up, man, we, we talk about returning, returning starters. Two of the most, two of the starters returning that I'm most excited about is your two backs. Katron Allen and Nick Singleton. Both had over a thousand yards rushing last year. And I was able to do a feature on both these guys. And, man, it really impressed me how selfless they were, how much they cared about each other, but also how much they compete against each other. And that's how what makes them so much better. But how does their playing styles complement each other? And also how do you think they've put their egos aside to share these touches over the past two, three years that you've seen coach?

[Urban Meyer]

Well, first of all, shocker, that you want to talk about the running backs right now, you know that I got.

[Rob Stone]

To talk to RB's coach.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah. The first thing I'll say is, you know, to be honest, I was surprised when they both came back. I thought it was going to be similar, our tight end situation where, you know, we had Tyler Warren and Theo Johnson, both tight ends, and once one decided to leave, the other one stayed or vice versa. And I thought it was going to be similar. But I also think they have bought into our philosophy here. We don't want to be in a situation where we're sending a running back to the NFL and he's got, you know, too much wear and tear, carries on a season, and then the NFL feels like he's beat up.

[James Franklin]

Yes.

[Urban Meyer]

And not a whole lot of, you know, tread left on the tires. Our guys understand, you know, they're really good complementary pieces. It's going to be really good for their longevity in their careers and things like that. The other thing that really helped that no one wants to talk about, is we got a chance to have one of the best offensive lines in college football this year. That. That plays a big part in this as well. They know who's coming back in front of them, and that's gonna. That's gonna be helpful. And then we went out into the transfer portal and got some. A little bit of help at wide receiver. Because if people are concerned about our passing game, as you know, that's going to help our running backs as much as anything.

[Rob Stone]

Yes, sir. Thank you.

[James Franklin]

Hey. Hey, James. In 2012, I went to the Big Ten. I think you came two or three years later.

[Urban Meyer]

And I came in 14.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, and 14. I was shocked when I first got there, coming from the SEC at the, you know, just the quality of football from stadium experiences from, you know, there were great players, but not enough great players. And even my wife Shelly said to me once, I was, man, this is slow compared to what we just did for the last six years. And now fast forward. I think the Big Ten is past the sec. Obviously they have a national champ. Maybe not top to bottom, but speak to how much the Big Ten has improved. We added the four Pac12 teams, which have added a lot of depth of the conference. Are you shocked, surprised, Proud of where the Big Ten has come from, where it was back in the 12, 13, 14 years?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, I'm proud. And I think the biggest thing is the point you just made. It's strange that, that the Big Ten is now on the west coast, but I think whenever you're able to add a usc, a ucla, a Washington and Oregon to your conference, you could make the argument this is the strongest the Big Ten has ever been in its history from top to bottom. So yeah, I'm proud of that. I'm proud of being associated with the Big Ten. I'm proud of what we've been able to do. I'm proud of the success on the football field and I'm proud of Penn State' that as well. And I think your point is a good one. You know, we're really competing everywhere now. We're part of the conversation. We're either the best conference in college football or we're least part of that argument between two conferences. I think we both have a healthy respect for the sec. But when you talk about national championships, when you talk about draft choices, when you talk about those things at the very, very highest level, it's a, it's a heck of a argument year in and year out what those two conferences are able to do.

[James Franklin]

Yep.

[Mark Ingram]

Coach, the last couple of years your program has been so consistent, constantly in that double digit wind type category. And you're, you're fighting for Big Ten championships, you're getting yourself in the college football playoffs. But I do feel there is a conversation out there. There is a narrative about Penn State that we only believe in Penn State up until a certain point. When it's talking semifinals or winning the national championship, it's hard to really push your chips in to Penn State. And maybe that's just, that's a narrative that you've heard or you haven't heard, but we in the media certainly feel it. And it's one that we've expressed as well, to be honest. So what does Penn State need to do on the field to prove to people, hey, we belong in this upper echelon of college football?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, well, I think a couple things. I think first thing is you got to embrace that, right? I mean, that's, that's the nature of major college football. That's. That's part of being at a place like Penn State. I mean, we finished fifth in the country last year, and people are pissed, right? Like, that's, that's. That's what the Penn State job is about. You got to embrace that. I'm very proud of what we've accomplished. We've been as consistent as any program in the country. We've been as consistent at Penn State that Penn State's ever been since joining the Big Ten. So I'm proud of all those things. But I also understand, fully embrace that we got to take that next step. And it's. It's winning those games that you're talking about. We totally understand that. And, you know, we're excited about that. That's what this year is all about, about taking those steps. Like Mark brought up, we got a. We got a core group of guys coming back that we're going to rely on heavily. But. But we can't wait. And I think one of the things that we're doing, I think a good job of, is balancing that with also not doing what a lot of programs do as well, which lose the games that you're not supposed to lose. You know, we've done a really good job of that. And what I don't want to do is now we put such an emphasis on these other games that now we end up losing some teams that we're not supposed to. So that's the balancing act. And I'm proud of the staff and I'm proud of the players, of how we're approaching it, and we got tremendous opportunity to change that conversation and change that narrative.

[Mark Ingram]

You look at your roster right now. Do you have a national championship team sitting there in Happy Valley right now?

[Urban Meyer]

I think we got a tremendous opportunity to do some special things this year. I know you don't want me to do this, but I am excited about our opportunity. I'm looking up on the screen right now. Nevada is our opening game. People are going to say, well, that's not a big game. We'll lose to Nevada and find out. So we're focused on that. But I also am totally comfortable with talking about the things that we aspire to do as a. As a team this year and as a season and for these players. To me, that's the biggest thing, is I want these players to experience this. I want these players that have come back and made these sacrifices to be a part of something special. And that's why I wake up very early that's why I go to sleep late at night trying to put these players in the best position to be. To be successful and have a very, very special season this year at Penn State.

[Mark Ingram]

Coach, we really appreciate the time. Enjoy the rest of your summer and always good to catch up with you. I have a funny feeling we'll be seeing you a couple times this upcoming season.

[Urban Meyer]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. And I got to say, I think our two running backs, I think those guys may be a little bit bigger than our guy.

[Rob Stone]

Hey, Coach. They should be. Because I'm retired.

[Mark Ingram]

Yes.

[Rob Stone]

I'm just a.

[Mark Ingram]

When you.

[James Franklin]

When you got.

[Urban Meyer]

When you got the guns out and you don't look retired like that.

[Rob Stone]

That.

[Urban Meyer]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

[James Franklin]

You don't see.

[Urban Meyer]

You don't see me and Herbs doing that. Retired guys don't do that.

[Rob Stone]

I ain't hitting the weights like them boys are. I ain't doing them heavy squats like them boys are.

[Mark Ingram]

Man.

[Rob Stone]

Man, I'm chasing these kids around, Coach. That's all I got to do now.

[Urban Meyer]

Thanks, guys.

[James Franklin]

Appreciate you, sir.

[Mark Ingram]

Best, coach Franco. Thank you.

[Rob Stone]

Thanks, coach.

[Unknown]

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[Mark Ingram]

Welcome back to the Triple Option, presented by Wendy's. Rob Stone, Urban Meyer here with you. Time now for Treatment of the Week, presented by Wendy's. Make sure to try Wendy's new Frosty Fusions with flavors like Caramel Crunch, Oreo Brownie and Pop Tarts Strawberry. All right, we have talked a lot about rules and litigation and playoff formats this offseason. Not a whole lot, though, has been said about recruiting. So the season's coming here, right? And we just took a look at the latest 2026 recruiting rankings that certainly will taste sweet to the Big Ten coach. The Big Ten has 10 teams in the top 25. USC and Ohio State currently sitting one and two, respectively. James Franklin's Nittany Lions at number five. Has the Big Ten maybe caught up, maybe surpassed the SEC in recruiting?

[James Franklin]

I think they've caught up and we've, we've, you know, last year they were the strongest conference actually the last two years. And that's easy to evaluate who held the trophy at the end of the year. And it was the Wolverines and then the Buckeyes, which if you ask that question 10, 15 years ago. So that's, that will probably never happen. The Buckeyes won it in 2002, 14 and then obviously this past year and the Wolverines won it the year before. So I would not say past them, though. I think that's a credit. First of all, the Big Ten added four teams, not just four teams, four legit teams from the Pac 12. USC is obviously number one in recruiting right now. So they are on the same par. They're in the same conversation, the recruiting rankings. And the other way to evaluate recruiting is the NFL draft. And there was a time where the SEC had so many and they still have more than the other conferences. But anytime you want to talk about conference and the strongest conferences, I look at championships and NFL draft and you kind of stop there.

[Mark Ingram]

When you were coaching, how much did you get caught up with five star labels and four star labels like, hey, we got to get more five star guys.

[James Franklin]

Oh, I never said that. But I certainly, I, I checked recruiting every morning I was in the office and I checked, I had three or four the college football analysts and, and for the most part, they're not bad. I'm not saying they're right all the time, but I checked it all the time. And as my father once told me, is that as long as they're keeping score, we're going to try to win. And that I. You're damn right. We wanted to be the number one recruiting school in the country. It's good for your program, it's good for the exposure, but you certainly didn't make decisions on other people's evaluation. I will tell you this. I saw, for example, Justin Trout, a great player out of Bosco, New Jersey, one day. I was going through my list. He committed, I believe, to Notre Dame, and he was a five star. And I was like, wait, what the hell happened there? And I got my recruiting off our D line. Coach. We ended up flipping him. We went after him for one reason. That was because I saw he became a five star and they were right. He ended up having a great career for us. So to answer your question, did I watch it? Absolutely. And I'll tell you, the coaches that say that they don't pay attention, I'd say they pay attention.

[Mark Ingram]

So they're. You're paying attention to your own recruiting, obviously. Are you paying attention to your competitors and. And who they're pulling in?

[James Franklin]

I told you, we had a Wolverine board on. On. On a room, on a separate board in our recruiting. The. The war room, we used to call it. I. Every day I checked, and I wanted to see who they recruit. It was updated daily. Who were they recruiting? Who are they getting? And why did they beat us on that player if they did? And that was a bad day for that assistant coach if. If we didn't know about that player, and it's a good thing that didn't happen that often.

[Mark Ingram]

Coach, give me one player that you really wanted and you couldn't quite close the deal for whatever reason.

[James Franklin]

I give you 100 players. We went after Jerry. You know, you talk about the Wolverines, Jabril Peppers. I wanted him bad. I thought he was a great player. The one that I would say probably is Patrick Peterson at Florida. I had him. He ended up being. I think he's gonna be a Hall of Famer. We had him on our show. Love that player. And then the Other one is C.J. spiller, 25 miles from the swamp. And I mean, we had that, and I love that kid. To this day, we're still friends. And that would have been. If the. The Gators would have got that cat back in the 0708 era. It wouldn't have been fair, the amount of talent we had on that team.

[Mark Ingram]

Coach, recruiting has changed through the years. We all know that, but sometimes the visuals scream at us. All right, so this, this is out there right now. This is a 5 star LSU wideout commit. Tristan Keys, again, an LSU commit on his official visit, though. Oh, gosh, here we go to Tennessee.

[James Franklin]

Okay, I'm out.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah, it's like an orange fashion show. And orange.

[James Franklin]

That's an LSU commit.

[Mark Ingram]

That is an LSU commit. And by the way, I don't know what the term commit really means anymore. You can commit all you want, but until you, I think until you show up on campus, your, your fair game is kind of how it feels like.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, that's, that was, that's been that way for quite a while. So once commit just means, you know, you're in the final three. You know, it doesn't mean you're going to get the guy. It depends on, obviously it depends on the, the people. You know, so much of it depends on the mom and dad. You know, when you sit in the home, you're like, okay, this one's done. As opposed to that third uncle sitting there and saying, okay, now what's, what's in it for me? Those, those are the ones that I would look at the assistant coach say, this, this, this, this stuff's not going to happen. So. But I watched that video and now I know why I'm worried about the, you know, my boat out back and, you know, am I going to play golf tomorrow? Because it's hot down here. I mean, imagine that.

[Mark Ingram]

Hold on, Coach. Let's say, let's say you, you got that player at Florida. He, he is committed to you. And then you see this video of him strutting around in Tennessee. What is your, and your staff's reaction to how you would manage that situation?

[James Franklin]

Yeah, it's so much as you can't cookie cutter and it's dependent on the kid, you know, plus they're, remember, they're kids, you know, like, enjoy having fun. They're having to have a hell of a time.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah. You're giving these gifts. Why not take them?

[James Franklin]

Yeah. Have fun with it. And you know, I think it's silly, but, you know, you know, I'm not 18 years old either. I'm not 17 years old. And, and that, you know, that didn't really happen back in the day, but. Have at it, tiger. You know, that's once again not my, certainly not my issue anymore.

[Mark Ingram]

Have at it, Tiger. I'm not sure that's what Brian Kelly is saying. Have at a tiger. He's like, get your tail to Baton Rouge. Put on the right colors. All right, time now for the triple option. Crystal ball brought to you by BetMGM. BetMGM is giving you the chance to win a prize every day during the baseball season. Step into the batter's box for BetMGM's swing for the fences free to play game. Visit BetMGM app to access the game and you'll score a prize if you hit a single, double, triple or even a home run. So this week the crystal ball coach is going to focus on your old program in Gainesville. The Florida Gators win total during the regular season set at seven and a half. Thinking about the under already, Coach? The over you can get for plus 100, the under for minus 120. These lines of course always subject to change. So again, the regular season win total, we're talking seven and a half. Last season they finished with seven regular season wins. Did complete the campaign with a bowl game win over Tulane, losses to Miami, Texas A and M, Tennessee, Georgia and Texas ranked wins over LSU and Ole Miss. Curious note though, of their five losses, the quarterback D.J. lagway only started against Georgia and he left that game in the second quarter, had that calf injury. He did lead the Gators to wins in their final three starts. That's against lsu, Ole Miss and Florida State. So a lot is expected of him. Let's take a look at the schedule right now as I mentioned, I'm feeling the under in Gainesville. We're going to start though with Long island, who I frankly didn't know had a football program. I played against Long island in soccer. I didn't know they had football.

[James Franklin]

It'll be 115 heat index in the swamp. Right, Right.

[Mark Ingram]

So let's give them the win against Long Island. South Florida is one of those programs that always seems to give in state schools issues, whether it's Florida State or Miami. But I think we can say let's just give Florida the win there as well. All right, so two and oh, then business picks up. Coach, how about this three game stretch.

[James Franklin]

At four game, four game stretch. Look at that.

[Mark Ingram]

You're right. Four game stretch. But really an ugly three for sure. Right, so we start at LSU.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, that's a tough one.

[Mark Ingram]

L. Okay. At Miami that's a point five versus.

[James Franklin]

Texas at home, point 5.5.

[Mark Ingram]

So all right, so I guess because all those point five will give them three wins, somehow they might steal one of those and then they go back on the road at Texas A and M. Damn. Yeah, you're being generous with your zero point fives. Right now.

[James Franklin]

I just.

[Mark Ingram]

I know. I'm with you. I. I feel it. All right, how about this? Mississippi State.

[James Franklin]

W. Okay.

[Mark Ingram]

World's largest cocktail party. Georgia.

[James Franklin]

Georgia L. Okay.

[Mark Ingram]

At Kentucky. W. All right, so we're at five at Ole Miss.

[James Franklin]

0.5. That's 0.55. Yeah. Six. 7.5. Tennessee W. At home.

[Mark Ingram]

Okay, so six and change and then versus Florida State.

[James Franklin]

W. At home. So I'm actually going to say they're going to be above the seven, five.

[Mark Ingram]

Okay. You think they're going to hit eight? Because you're. You're dancing in that seven, seven and a half range.

[James Franklin]

I do. I do. And here. Here's why.

[Mark Ingram]

Okay.

[James Franklin]

The. The writing. The book was written on Florida. Last year. It was over. They lost early. Lost bad early. And the sign of a coaching staff and the sign of a team with some kind of. There's something, you know, that. First of all, the quarterback was young, and he's. He's coming back, obviously. But regardless of the. I mean, not regardless. That team fought their ass off, man. And I. To beat Ole Miss and to beat LSU down the stretch. Obviously, they beat Florida State, but, you know, that was. I've had a lot. I have still so many friends involved in Florida, and the writing was on the wall, and somehow the coach, you know, Coach Napier, the staff and the leaders on that team ignored the noise and went out and played their best football at the end of the season. So I. I think there's something there right now.

[Mark Ingram]

Well, one of the great resurrections last season, because the early conversation was, all right, what's his buyout? Who else is Florida going to look at? Like, a lot of people had written off the Napier era, but there's huge expectations in Gainesville all the time, Coach. You know it. You lived it. And it started with Coach Spurrier, right? 12 years, six SEC titles and one national title. So when you came into Gainesville, you knew what the expectations were, and Napier, he knows the same as he enters year four.

[James Franklin]

Yeah, I think it's different. I think the expectations are. You know, it's. Expectations are relative. Expectations are current. You know, it changes. There is a time where Miami Florida was anything other than a national title, was failure. And now that's not the case at all. So there's been. Expectations are all relative to the current time period. So I don't. I don't. I think they might get back there someday. When I got there, absolutely, I felt Steve Spurrier every day, every day of my career. And I'm friends with coach and but. And he knows I told him that I felt that visor every fricking day. I wasn't Coach Spurrier. We didn't, you know, we did things differently than him. But the expectations were SEC championship and that's a hard ass conference, man. So it's a. I think it's a much different animal in, what is it, 20, 25 than it was in. In 20 in 2005.

[Mark Ingram]

So no conference title since 2008. So are you saying the expectations right now in Gainesville are 7 1/2 wins in the regular season?

[James Franklin]

No, I'm not saying that. But there was a time it was an sec. I don't think it's SEC title at all. I know it's not. You never hear that. You know, first of all, it's 08 is the last time they won it. So I'd say, you know, they got to get back there. Obviously you're talking about one of the best jobs out there, but certainly not the same expectations when you follow a guy like Spurrier.

[Mark Ingram]

So how do you get back there?

[James Franklin]

WS man is easy. Be on the left hand side of the column, man, and find a way to lift some hardware. If you do that, then they're back.

[Mark Ingram]

Yeah. Yeah. They've got everything to me.

[James Franklin]

I like their coach and I like their quarterback. That's a good place to start.

[Mark Ingram]

Two great. Two great places to have wins, right? Make sure to follow subscribe rate us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast as well as across social media. We are at 3x option show. As always, thank you to our great sponsors, Wendy's, bet, mgm. Coach, thanks for the education today. Tell Shelly no raisins in the cookies. Nobody wants raisins in their cookies, coach.

[James Franklin]

Nobody agreed.