Ep. 163: "Thoughts Go to Cornbread" (Special Guest: Roy Rogers!)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Truth About Vintage Amps with Skip Simmons

Host: The Fretboard Journal

Episode 163: "Thoughts Go to Cornbread" (Special Guest: Roy Rogers!)

Date: April 11, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this engaging installment, amp technician and storyteller Skip Simmons is joined by host Jason and legendary slide guitarist/producer Roy Rogers. The conversation dives deep into vintage amp repair, rare guitar setups, and Rogers’ storied career—from producing John Lee Hooker, collaborating with Miles Davis, to his recording techniques and custom gear. Candid wisdom, industry anecdotes, and lively gear talk make this episode a must-listen for vintage gear enthusiasts, blues fans, and anyone fascinated by the stories that shape classic tones.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Skip’s Workshop Tales & Listener Generosity

Timestamps: 00:26 – 10:52

• Unsettled Spring Weather: Skip opens with California weather musings, blending local color with technical talk.
• Vintage Tube Tips: Skip highlights overlooked/affordable vintage tubes (6K6, 6F6, 6Y6) as great alternatives for classic amp circuits, lamenting current tube shortages and encouraging experimentation.

  “Quit your crying about not being able to get whatever and make some new stuff with some different tubes that we do have.” — Skip (01:37)

• Resurrecting the Dead: Skip regales a story of reviving a trashed Flea Market Tweed Bassman—rat poop, bad repairs and all—underscoring just how bulletproof old Fenders can be. (02:45-05:42)
• Listener Appreciation: Skip thanks listeners for sending books, wine, and personal notes, evoking a tight-knit, appreciative community.

  “The Garnett book is very homespun and trippy... certain to give people who are a little advanced some ideas about some crazy stuff to do. And also people that don’t know jack.” — Skip (09:16)

2. Roy Rogers Joins: Gear, Social Media & The Tone Search

Timestamps: 17:12 – 24:43

• Intro to Roy Rogers: Roy’s bio covers performing/producing, storied collaborations (John Lee Hooker, Taj Mahal, etc.), and his inventive acoustic-electric slide setup.
• Adapting to Modern Promotion: Roy, traditionally wary of social media, now releases “vignettes” demoing rare amps/guitars—“just talking about the tone,” not show-off shredding.

  “A lot of people think, ‘oh, you gotta use this big amp’—no, you don’t. You use small amps… what matters is how you hear it.” — Roy Rogers (20:34)

• Gear Realism: Roy stresses authenticity and musical intention over hype:

  “It’s not about just being an old amp. Some gear’s better than others, whether it’s new or old. But… the tonal aspect of the distortion, you can’t get that in a lot of newer technology.” (23:13)

3. Unique Rig Talk: The Rogers Setup

Timestamps: 24:43 – 35:32

• Slide Guitar Innovations: Roy details his legendary Martin New Yorker flat-top with a DeArmond humbucker—used at everything from club gigs to festivals.

  “It’s just so cool playing a hollow guitar flat top with a De Armand through a big old boogie. And let me just add, not everybody could do that.” — Skip (29:23)

• More Unique Gear:
  • 12-string Dobro with built-in DeArmond pickup, used for unmistakable slide tones on big stages.
  • Custom double-neck guitar, designed for quick-tuning changes (open E/D/G), built by Sean Chappelle.

    “I have two of them, they’re the only two in existence… solid-body maple, slotted headstocks, lighter and close-necked, with DeArmond and P100 pickups.” — Roy Rogers (45:29)

4. Legendary Collaborations & Studio Anecdotes

Timestamps: 48:17 – 66:52

• Amp Setups of the Stars:

  • Stevie Ray Vaughan: “Most unique setup I ever saw… a whole plethora of guitar amps as well as three or four Fender Leslies all in series.” (49:01)
  • John Lee Hooker: Played a Twin Reverb with a 335: “Guitar cord!” (50:20)
  • Albert Collins: Used a rare, thunderously loud Fender Quad (four 12" speakers).
  • Keith Richards (with John Lee Hooker): Desired only a reissue Tweed Bassman, “and that’s all he wanted.” (51:43)

    “90% of it is in your fingers, guys… B.B. King would still sound like B.B. King.” — Roy Rogers (51:49)

• The Hot Spot Soundtrack Story:

  • A dream-team session with Taj Mahal, John Lee Hooker, Tim Drummond (bass), Earl Palmer (drums), Roy Rogers, and Miles Davis (overdubbed trumpet), produced by Jack Nitzsche for Dennis Hopper’s film (53:05–61:17).

    “Miles came in… Miles is just smiling away, man. He had a great time… and he was certainly aware of John Lee, loved the track.” — Roy Rogers (54:12) “We were really given a lot of room… not necessarily defined, just a lot of room to improvise.” (54:59)

  • Fun Fact: You can stream or buy hi-fi vinyl of The Hot Spot soundtrack (61:17).

• Jack Nitzsche Reminiscing:

  • Roy’s first professional session was with Nitzsche for the "One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest" soundtrack (late 1970s) (62:18).

5. Slide Roots & Early Influences

Timestamps: 63:46 – 70:34

• Musical Upbringing: From childhood in Vallejo, CA, to gigging from age 13, Roy details his journey into blues via mentors and exposure to icons like John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, B.B. King, and more.

  “I got into the blues…I found myself, 30 years later, got a call to be in John Lee Hooker’s band. I couldn’t believe it.” (66:34)

• Cultural Shift: The Bay Area blues scene, and witnessing the cross-pollination of British Invasion and R&B.

6. Roy Rogers’ New Record & Recording Approach

Timestamps: 70:34 – 77:06

• On “The Sky’s the Limit”:
  • Written during COVID, a mix of acoustic/electric—emphasizing songwriting and groove.
  • Features a reimagined Stones cover, “The Last Time,” and sharp original material (“He’s a Legend in His Own Mind”).
  • Slide guitar throughout—a “combo plate.”

  “I love writing songs that have a little bit of bite to them… kind of like the Mose Allison aspect of things, man.” (72:38)

• Recording Techniques:
  • Basics tracked to 16-track, 2-inch analog tape before transfer to Pro Tools for the best of both tonal worlds.
  • Shout-out to the rare private Nevada City studio with a Mara Machines tape deck (77:06).

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “You don’t really use huge amps when you record… Probably most of the recordings that we all grew up with and loved, they were done with small amps.” — Roy Rogers (20:44)
• “Whatever works for you. That’s it. That’s that simple. But people like to make it more complicated than it is.” — Roy Rogers (43:34)
• “Ninety percent of it is in your fingers, guys. I mean, B.B. King would still sound like B.B. King.” — Roy Rogers (51:49)
• “When I take it out every once in a while… and I play it, I say, ‘my gosh, is that me?’” — Roy Rogers, on the Hot Spot soundtrack (54:59)
• “Don’t get hung up on just the latest technology… it’s about the people.” — Roy Rogers (78:43)

---

Technical Amp Questions & Community FAQ

Timestamps: 87:18 – 99:16

• Power Tube Output (Trainer YBA1 vs. YBA1A): Skip explains that amp output (in watts) is not solely determined by the tubes, but also by voltage, transformer size, and circuit voicing—the higher the wattage, the more stress on tubes, and sometimes ratings are more “marketing” than reality. (88:37–92:02)
• Listener Tips: Double check transformer specs—small differences can make or break an amp build. (93:38–94:12)

---

Closing & Community Catch-Up

• Roy’s Cookbook Mention: Roy plugs his wife’s memoir-cookbook, Down Home Cooking from a Wayward Southern Belle by Gaynell Rogers, full of stories and recipes for meals served to touring musicians (84:21).
• Upcoming Events & Swap Meet Plans: Talk of a potential Skip Simmons curated gear swap/garage sale—a gathering for fans to trade, buy, and celebrate vintage gear. (94:31–99:07)

---

Episode Tone

Conversational, relatable, and full of off-the-cuff wisdom; there’s a balance of deep technical insight, musician folklore, and lighthearted humor. The exchange between Skip, Jason, and Roy is warm and unpretentious, inviting listeners of all levels to appreciate the “why” and “how” behind legendary tone.

---

Recommended Listening / Further Exploration

• The Hot Spot Soundtrack – Seek out the 45rpm analog reissue for a historic blues/jazz session.
• Roy Rogers’ “The Sky’s the Limit” – New release spotlighted in this episode.
• Roy’s social media vignettes – Short amp/guitar demos with storytelling and classic tone tips.
• Gaynell Rogers’ Cookbook – “Down Home Cooking from a Wayward Southern Belle”.

---

For More

• Submit amp and gear questions to: [e-mail]
• Support the show and jump the line via Patreon.
• Thanks to sponsors: Amplified Parts, Emerald City Guitars, Grez Guitars.

---

(End of summary. For original stories, technical deep-dives, and more about Roy’s rare gear, listen starting at 17:12.)

Transcript

[Jason]

Good morning. How are you?

[Skip]

Good, I'm good. I'm fine. Does it sound okay?

[Jason]

You sound fantastic. Spring is in the air in Loma Rica.

[Skip]

Unsettled spring weather. Like crazy hail storms and brief downpours and stuff like that. Yeah, all sorts of those warnings where they come in on the radio. But warning, warning. But we had one little blast last night around 11 o' clock that was pretty. Yeah, Unsettled spring weather. Sometimes you just drive in, it's sunny, then it gets cloudy, then it gets really cloudy and then pow. Like a hail storm. So I'll take it. I wasn't ready for summer completely, which we've had anyway. Everyone. No, half the people that listen should have every issue of Vacuum Tube Valley, a magazine, we've talked about it, that existed for a few years. And they had a real serious tube engineer, like a guy who worked for a company that made tubes named Eric Barber, okay? And he had a cool thing every so often, the tube dumpster, where he would talk about perfectly cool, useful, great tubes that are overlooked and therefore cheap. So people, 6K6, 6F6, like Frank and 6Y6. These are all vintage tubes capable of being in a Tweed Deluxe or a magnetone or whatever. And they're, you know, pennies on the dollar compared to 6v6s, which there's a huge shortage of unless you're going to buy brand new stuff. So there's three tubes that are out there for probably, you know, maybe 10 or $15 a piece that have potential. So as the great Steve from Angela Instruments would have said, quit your crying about not being able to get whatever and make some new stuff with some different tubes that we do have. Thank you very much. I've seen magnetone 213s that had 6k6s in them factory. And those are way cheaper than 6v6s and can still sound great. So they're starting with that.

[Jason]

Wow. Mike.

[Roy Rogers]

John.

[Skip]

Throwing it down. Absolutely.

[Jason]

What are you working on?

[Skip]

Mowing?

[Roy Rogers]

Oh, no.

[Skip]

Younger guy from Newman, California, once home of the great Earl Yarrow. He decided he was going to get into old an old Fender Ant, but didn't know anything. And he comes from like the antique and flea market kind of crowd. And there was a tweed baseman at a big, you know, flea market somewhere, and it was just wasted, painted, changed grill cloth, no speakers, no tubes, full of rat poo. And it was, you know, the guy wanted $2,000, you know, not $20. Right. And so it sat there for a long time. And he knew, but he didn't really know. And there's also a reverb unit that went with it. Fender reverb unit. The same kind of state, just like left outside in the rain. But the fun part is I got the basement. And after some careful, careful servicing, I realized that it was untouched. It had had two tube sockets replaced and the power tube sockets poorly. And it had had solid state diodes soldered in place of the rectifier tube. So it didn't have to have a rectifier tube. I took all that stuff out, and otherwise it was original. Original filter caps, all the capacitors, just original and not that bad condition. Once I got all the Brat Poo out of it and stuff. Actually, he cleaned it a lot too. But the bottom line is I fired that thing up and it worked great. I had to replace 2.02 astrons in it. Those are coupling caps that were leaking so bad they were making the volume controls scratchy. But after that. Now, I'm not saying everybody should leave an amp like that and that. You shouldn't. You know, I'd send that out on a world tour with someone, but, oh, my God, that stuff. You can abuse that stuff so hard. Don't forget, I've done Fenders that were under saltwater mud, buried in saltwater mud from Katrina, and they all work. So I was pretty amazed that. That that basement came back to life. And he was, of course, thrilled because he paid a lot for something that was like, you know, if it had had both transformers were bad and this and that, it could have got ugly. But as it was, that thing came to life and sounded just great. Wow. Because he bought it, you know, he got it. He got. He got the re. I think he got the reverb unit and the tweed baseman for 1600. And it's going to have to pay me, but, you know, just shows you, I guess. My main point is I'm always amazed at how bulletproof that stuff is. It's like my tractor, you know, it sat outside for a year and then I just went. So anyway, that was on the bench and I could. I. I got plenty, you know, I got all kind of stuff written down. So we can. We can do well, go any way you want.

[Jason]

I want to go all the ways. But let's thank our sponsors, Emerald City Guitars. I was just over there yesterday. Incredible amp selection right now, including maybe one that I dropped off. Nothing that you've seen, skip. And I was floored by all the cool vintage acoustics. They have Tonk Brothers guitars, Gibson's Martins So if anybody out there wants to just go nuts. Emerald City Guitars. When I was there. Trevor Boone, proprietors. Opening a box opens a case. It's his 40th burst that he has sold. And it's just yet another 1959 Les Paul burst. He's not even 40 years old. He's already sold and bought 40 bursts. This one already had a.

[Skip]

There are only a hundred or something.

[Jason]

I think there's over a thousand. But. But that's an inordinate amount of very expensive guitars to pass through one shop. But he knows what he's doing, so guitars.

[Skip]

I can't decide if I should get an acoustic guitar or an electric guitar. Could he explain to me the benefits and. And differences between.

[Jason]

He could. And he has a. He has a wonderful staff who also could. And. And wonderful people. Barry over at Grez Guitars is sponsoring the podcast once again. Now, Grez is going to be not only at our 2026 fretboard summit, but Barry. I'm putting him on the spot. He's going to be talking about guitar design. And so if anybody wants to go learn from one of the coolest cats around in the gear industry, come to the Fretboard Summit. FretboardSummit.org, it's in August. It's in Chicago. And say hi to Barry and me.

[Skip]

He's gonna do a little TED Talk.

[Jason]

Little TED Talk. He's gonna inspire us all.

[Skip]

Excellent.

[Jason]

And cardboard cutout Skip will be there, too. And our vintage amps room.

[Skip]

Should be fun, no? It will be fun.

[Jason]

It's gonna be a blast.

[Skip]

Barely get through one of those before you have to start planning the next one. Kind of like the magazine.

[Jason]

Tell me about it. I know. And then, of course, lest we forget, Amplified Parts. Sponsoring the show once again, they've got the mod electronics. So for all of you out there, I'm assuming it's maybe half of you who have never actually even touched a soldering gun. You just listen to this show. Here's your chance to get your hands a little dirty this summer and build something and finally be able to understand a little bit more about what Skip's talking about every two weeks on this show. So tell them the truth about vintage amp sent you. They've also got pedal kits if an amp kit is too daunting. And all sorts of parts.

[Skip]

Awesome.

[Jason]

Those are my big announcements. We have a Patreon for the show. If anybody wants to get to the front of the line. That is the easiest way to get your question in front of us. Supports the show. And do you want to field a question or two before we maybe have a guest?

[Skip]

Sure. And at some point, I have a flood of stuff showing up in the mail. Like, what's this? Who sent me this? Love the show. Here's a blah, blah, blah. Here's some of my wine I make. And here's. Have two Garnett books now. Because I whined about not having it. So, yeah, why don't you, why don't

[Jason]

you thank all the people?

[Skip]

Oh, man, I had a list listener Yan, the guy that makes the cool

[Jason]

Stompo Body and Soul instruments in San

[Skip]

Francisco, he sent me a Garnett book. Adam from Rhode island sent me a Garnett book.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Skip]

The great, the great Kevin Le from Ohio found one a couple years ago for like 10 bucks and had it. Sent me a Garnet book. So the first person to call me up on the phone and tell me what classic Fender does not have a death cap, I'll send him a copy of the Garnett book. And the Garnett book is very homespun and trippy. And I remember Bill Kernard looked at some stuff of when this will never work. But it's, it's. I, you know, I got a lot of books, right? And I found it pretty useful and pretty fascinating and certain to give people who are a little advanced some ideas about some crazy stuff to do. And also people that don't know jack. His schematics are drawn a little bit differently. And he breaks down a lot of different components and parts of circuits and stuff. And I've find it very, very informative. So a lot of people. Oh, who's the guy? A guy who was an actual winemaker in Colorado, sent three bottles of fancy red wine. I gotta say, I haven't had a chance. It was. I've only had it for about a week, but. And I haven't tried. That's Blake. Listener Blake from Boulder. So thanks for that. I got a beautiful book from the dad of the kid who wrote about the Tava we had.

[Jason]

Oh, that's sweet.

[Skip]

That was Chip McConnell and he sent a vintage hardback of short stories by Roald Dahl, who wrote Charlie and the Chocolate Thing. He wrote a lot of really cool other stories too. And he sent a nice note and it was just fantastic. The wine guy, I think, has a typewriter because his note looked like it was typed. Gotta love that.

[Roy Rogers]

So.

[Skip]

So not the old cowboy star who's been dead forever, but there's a really well known guy named Roy Rogers who lives nearby me who's had decades, decades and decades long career, played with so many people. Produced a record for John Lee Hooker that won a Grammy. You know, could call Keith Richards up on the phone probably. I believe he also was at some of the same sessions where Robert Armstrong podcast or T A V A subject played the saw. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. I think he. I think he mentioned that he was involved in that too and just has been touring all over the world forever and, you know, kind of like little Charlie, like a guy that not everybody knows, but. But a lot of people do. And by the way, you wouldn't want to follow that guy. If you are playing guitar, you better. You better bring it. And one of his favorites is like a. A super cool, fancy version of my test guitar. It's an old Martin flat top, like a mahogany O15 or something like that, with a De Armand in the sound hole. And he actually has played, you know, huge, huge shows outdoors, all sorts of stuff using that thing. And hopefully, if we're lucky, I gave him all the right numbers and he's going to be able to. He said 915. Hopefully he'll be able to make the connection and we can yak with them. I had two listeners who suggest that I talk to him because he's been doing a lot of stuff online, which he didn't do before. I'm not exactly sure what the format is, but someone said, hey, there's a lot of footage of him on, maybe it's on YouTube or something of him sitting around and talking about amps and playing and stuff like that. And he's a. He's. He's serious, a real resource and a super nice guy.

[Jason]

He's. He's obviously got an incredible career. The real test will be, can he.

[Skip]

I think he did something with Miles Davis. Imagine what that would have been like.

[Roy Rogers]

Whoa.

[Skip]

So we'll see. And I guess you'll know if he. If he makes the connection.

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, we'll see that.

[Jason]

We'll know.

[Skip]

He's a minute late, but so are you.

[Jason]

So he's probably trying to call you, tell you Jason gave me the wrong number.

[Roy Rogers]

I don't know. Know.

[Jason]

It happens.

[Skip]

I got to get better at that, so.

[Jason]

No, it's all good. Well, what's on your bench while we wait for him to. To dial in?

[Skip]

What else is on the bench? How about. I might have mentioned this. Once I make this. I figured out how to make this. I call it a distribution preamp. You basically plug your guitar into this little tube thing and it has four separate outs, each with its own volume control, four separate tube preamps that you can send your signal to any of the four or all of them. And the way it came about was two people, one guy I didn't really know, who said, could you make me a thing where I could play, have all four of my amps all hooked up at once, and I could control them all from one spot? And I, of course, said, that's a stupid idea. I don't even own that many guitar cords that it would take. And about the same time, another old customer, Craig Leviach from Sacramento, said, hey, could you make a thing where you could have a whole bunch of amps all plugged into one guitar? And I said, that's a dumb idea. Who's ever going to do that? And by the way, I've only made a very small handful of these things because, really, it is overly complex. But the first guy didn't let on until after it was over. He was handicapped. He was in a wheelchair. And I remember he had deluxes, four different kinds, like a tweed, a brown, you know, a black one. What? I forget what. And so the idea was that he could set that all up, and he could have one spot where he could go, and he'd have this little. Basically a little tiny console, and he could turn up that amp. That amp, that amp. And I'm sure I was mowing, but I figured out a circuit for that, and it just works perfect. I mean, perfect. Even if you just use one of them, the preamp sound so good that you don't mind going through it. And so far, I think four or five people. They have one at Tiny Telephone has decided that it's practical enough or they're complex enough to want something like that. One of the guys I built one for strictly drives four separate effects chains, right? Now, that's that pedal show right there, right? Because you could plug into this thing and have, like, four separate piles of, you know, stomp boxes and all of this stuff, right? And once again, somebody said, could you do that? And I said, no, and it's a bad idea. And in the end, it, you know, it's pretty darn cool for certain people. So I've had somebody who wanted one recently, and I'm. I'm gonna. I'm gonna fix one of those up for him. And he just likes the idea of sitting in a tiny. They have it in the control room, and then they have cords running out to a bunch of amps out in the amp room. And. And you can just Sit there and go, well, how about this one? What about that one? And then, of course, a lot of people want some of that one and some of that one. And I don't know if anybody's ever really played through all of them, but I'm hoping someday somebody will. You know, I'm thinking four Marshall Stacks and a Les Paul into this thing, and you could turn all four of them up and they would all sound great. Not like you're doing something bad to the Tone at all. So maybe someday somebody will give me some money for that.

[Roy Rogers]

Hello, guys, I hear them. This is me.

[Skip]

Yes, I'm here. Roy Rogers. I don't even. I tried to tell people how groovy you were, but I don't even. We don't have time to tell people how groovy you were. But I'm. And I'm so happy that you're ahead, man.

[Roy Rogers]

Stop while you're ahead. That's cool.

[Skip]

Did you have any hail storms up there where you live?

[Roy Rogers]

We just did, actually. Another one. We had a serious one last night. I mean, the wind was, like, howling. It was quite. Lightning and thunder. And we just had another hailstorm this morning. So the weather is definitely letting us know who's in charge.

[Skip]

Oh, I was just talking about that spring weather happens in California like that once in a while. About 11 o' clock last night. Right. We got about 20 minutes of, you know, just unbelievable wind.

[Roy Rogers]

And I always. When it comes to weather, the. I always remember the very, very famous. I don't even know who said it, but the. The coldest summer I ever spent was in San Francisco.

[Skip]

Yeah, exactly. I think that's why.

[Roy Rogers]

Because of the fog. I mean, it was. It could get weird in the summertime. But, you know, we're here and I'm glad the phones are working. We didn't have Internet or anything earlier this morning, but it just came back. So, you know, when you live up in the mountains, I'm at 4,000ft. I'm up literally in the Tahoe National Forest. So it's up and down up here. That's just the way it is, you know.

[Skip]

Well, two different people who I barely know but listen to the podcast asked me to talk to you or to get you on, and apparently I, of course, would never know, but apparently there's a bunch of Roy Rogers out there now that you're doing like some kind of little tutorials and some stuff like that. Can you want to tell us about that?

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, you know, I. Well, I have a new record that's just released called the Sky's the Limit that I self released, you know, on my label. And it's, I have this computer wizard guy that's helping us promote it because, you know, you promote, as you both know, you know, you promote records and recordings so differently now than the old days. Quote, old days. It's got to be a social media thing and podcasts like we're doing here. So anyway, I hired this, this guy to help me and he said, you know, it really what you have do, Roy, is. And I've never been a social media guy, by the way. I've never done Facebook or anything like that. I know I've had people do that for me with my website. But he said, you have to do these little vignettes they call them. And just. I have a series of old amps as, you know, skip, because you've, you've, you've worked on a bunch of them for me. And I, I said, well, why don't I just talk about some of my amplifiers which are unique and I've used in the studio. So, and you know, I'll take like an old Gibson guitar and I'll play it through a, an epiphone Zephyr, which is from the early 50s, or like an early, early Gibson amp that I've used in the studio and so forth. And they're very short, like 30 seconds to a minute maybe. And I just say something brief. I'm not really promoting anything other than just talking about it. And lo and behold, it's got a fantastic, got fantastic response because people have said, you know, I'm just playing a little lick. I'm not like even playing a song basically, but I'm just, it's, it's about talking about the tone, you know, because as, as you know, I'm a tone guy, I'm always looking for tone as guitar players. It's, it's not just the guitar and, and your dexterity doing it, but it's, it's the amp. And one thing that, that I tell people, you know, is that, you know, you don't really use huge amps when you record. A lot of people think, oh, you got to use this big amp. No, you don't. You use small amps. And in fact, probably most of the recordings that we all grew up with and loved, they were done with small amps. And it doesn't matter what it just it. What matters is, is how you hear it. And when you hear it, then you're going to play it. So that's, that's Basically it for me. So that's how that happened.

[Skip]

Are you doing those at your own pad? Like you've got a little setup for it?

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, we just pick a place up here and I have an office. I don't have a home studio per se because I like to record. I like a studio and environment. I have, you know, I have a multi track here that I can put my ideas down on, but I don't record here. But yeah, we've done, done the shoots here and they've, you know, the technology amazing these days about cameras and iPhones and stuff. You don't need a big shoot like we used to call it, meaning, you know, multi cameras and lighting and all that stuff per se. You can do it so easily. And it looks great by the way. Whatever they want to call it, the pixelization or whatever it is, all these terms are new for us, but they come across and you know, it's. It's just kind of like, you know, it's the reality of it. I think it's. It's the reality of, of how you do something and, and how you play it and how you approach. That's what comes across. So that's it.

[Skip]

Simple. Sort of like two guys yakin. Right, Jason. We never, we never thought people would want to hear that. So I could, I could imagine that having a monster guy show and this is this through this with a guitar chord. And I'm going to do this for about a minute. I'm not surprised that, that you're getting some good response.

[Roy Rogers]

And it's fun if I, I'm. I'm delighted that people are, you know, and I, I'll use like a different ax. Like, you know, my main guitar is a, is a, is a acoustic, amplified acoustic. You know, I. For years I played a Martin New Yorker with a, with a de armaned humbucker pickup, which is really a unique sound coming out of guitar. And then I'll just show off the amps, I'll line them up in a row and say, hey, well this, this one sounds like this. And you know, the, the thing I like to point out to people is, you know, the, it's not about just being an old amp. It's. It's. It's. You know, some gear's better than others, whether it's new or old. But, but the tonality and the difference in for an old me as a player is it's not just distortion. It's the tonal aspect of the distortion and how it, you know, it. You just can't get that in a lot of newer technology things. You can come close, but. And I'm not really a pedal guy. I use a couple of pedals. I don't have, like a full rack of pedals. Never have, probably never will. I do use a chorus, an analog chorus, and I use sometimes a booster. But I like the amps. I. You know, I played through a boogie, an old boogie that I've had for since 1980.

[Skip]

Yeah.

[Roy Rogers]

Mark 2B. And I. You. And I've. Early on, for me, just. If you're talking about gear, I've all. When I first heard a guy playing through a Leslie a long, long time ago, I mean, a real Leslie speaker, like with a big three. I said, wow, that is such a cool sound. And the whole aspect of having one, the lower part of the Willesli going in one direction, and then the high, high part, which is the horn going the other. I said, that was such a cool sound. So I still use. I don't use a Leslie because they're too. They're too damn heavy to haul around anymore. I still have them. But there's a great thing that you can use that's called a motion sound that has. It doesn't have a horn, but it has that. That swish. And. You know, I remember when I. I'm not the only guy that does this. Of course. A lot of people have done it. I remember when I. When I did a tour with Stevie Ray Vaughan, long, long time ago, he had like four of those Fender Leslie. They were all tied together with all his amps. And so that was part of his sound too. Man. I didn't get it from him, but I. You know, a lot of people have used that because a. It's. It's a. It's just a. Widens the tone, if you will. So. Absolutely, you guys.

[Skip]

Anyway, pop hit was. We Were Always Sweethearts by Boss Gags. That's all Leslie all the way through. And it sounds super, super cool. And is your motion sound stuff hanging in there? It's been sturdy.

[Roy Rogers]

The amplifier one is. Is kaput. But I got a slave motion sound that I can power with it with an amplifier head or really anything or as an adjunct to the boogie. And so it's a slave, though it's not a unit in and of itself. Whereas my first motion sound had an amp and the Leslie part of it, too. But maybe. I don't think you want to touch that skip. That's not your forte to. To motions out.

[Skip]

No, it's. It's. Well, they had to make the amps, you know, squeeze them into a pretty small space. But the bottom line is, like you said, the sound. All right, hold on. How old is that Martin? How old is that Martin? I, I saw it once.

[Roy Rogers]

No, 69. 69, 70. Yeah.

[Skip]

And it was a reissue of the sloth head one. That's why you call it a New York Martin.

[Roy Rogers]

It's not a reissue. They kept making them. They didn't make.

[Skip]

Oh, they made them all through there. I didn't. But it's got slot, it's got a slot head, doesn't it?

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, a lot of people mistake it for, for a classical, but it's, it's, it's a parlor guitar. So parlor guitars for all your listeners, they're really small bodied guitars and you know, if you go. It's modeled after the original parlor guitars. All, all basically had slotted headstocks. Right. So, you know, I get more guitarists over the years have come up to me when they've seen me place that, that New Yorker Martin. And by the way, you know, the arm and humbucker pickup is, is a rather unique thing too. They say, man, that guitar can't sound like that. I mean, how can it? Because it's got this high output, you know, pickup on it, this great D arm and pickup. And it's on an acoustic guitar. It's kind of an oxymoron. Like. Why would you do that? Well, because I, I could take it with a boogie amp and I can, I could get it up to feedback, but it's controllable feedback. I could never do that if it was a dreadnought or a larger bodied guitar because the, the tone would be too much. It would. I couldn't control the feedback because I will. You know, with a power trio we are, you know, it's pretty much balls to the wall. I mean, we're going for it. So we paid a pretty good volume, so that's what I like.

[Skip]

You saw my test guitar, which was just a absolute department store cheap rot gut version of that, except. And I have the real D Armand, but of course it's on a crappy old silver tone guitar. But yet I know it sounds pretty good and that's how I can tell if an amp is working, is I can just kind of reach over there and hit the strings of that guitar with my finger and say, yeah, that sounds about right. You know, just because I've been using it for so long. And I was, I, I'm sure I was subtly inspired by seeing the, the one you had so many years ago. I, of course, had to have one that wasn't worth any money, because if it was, I would have sold it, you know, and so. And I was just a. It was just a good accident that I managed to. To put that thing together. And it, It's. I mean, it's just so cool playing a hollow guitar flat top with a De Arman through a big old boogie. And let me just add, not everybody could do that.

[Roy Rogers]

When you. When you look at a lot of photos, you guys probably know this already, but, you know, a lot of times the, A lot of the. The. The first De Armor pickups were. Those were the notes, the humbuckers. But, you know, the white. White what? Porcelain ones. Light like, you know, Lightning Hopkins used

[Skip]

to use, with the little thumb

[Roy Rogers]

volume control on it. Yeah, it's got a volume control on it, and. But it wasn't. And I use that for years. And then I became across this. This one. That's a 220de Arman pickup, and it's a humbucker. It's got a volume control on it and so forth. But it's, It's. It's quite. You know, obviously humbucking pickup means it's. It doesn't have a buzz. The other ones could have a buzz on them. So I've had this for years, and I actually have a number of them because it's, you know, I mean, you just want to.

[Skip]

Better be another one.

[Roy Rogers]

Exactly.

[Skip]

And you played that one I bought.

[Roy Rogers]

Go ahead.

[Skip]

You've played that rig at big old outdoor shows with the boatload of people, too, haven't you?

[Roy Rogers]

Sure I have, yes. I played it small clubs and in festivals around the world. And it's a. It's. I was gonna say the last one I bought at these pickups, somebody called me, a fan called me or apprised me of something, and it was. It was on the Internet, and I believe it or not, it was in Australia, and it was in the original box that this guy had bought or found in Australia. And I, I was. I couldn't get my fingers fast enough going, so buy it now. Buy it now. And I got it and I. It's. I mean, it was. It never been used. It had never been used, and probably from the mid-60s maybe, I don't know.

[Skip]

Have you got another flat top like that? Like, have you built a replica of this rig, so to speak, with a different flat top other than the Martin?

[Roy Rogers]

No, no, it's always been used on the Martin, always on the market.

[Skip]

So you Travel with that thing. Do you buy it a seat like B.B. king or something? Like, how do you, how do you let your hand off the handle of the case that that thing is in? Right. I mean, it's just.

[Roy Rogers]

Well, I tell you, it's, it's. Yeah, I, I always do a Hail Mary or something, man. Make sure that, you know. Yeah. I just hate to, to put guitars on planes and have to check them, but you really can't take guitars on inside like you used to. You know, in the old days, my roadie used to carry my. I always used to carry a 12 string dobro and he put that on his back in a soft case and I would take the, the Martin New Yorker on my back in a soft shell case and put them in the overhead things. Right. But. Well, they don't. It's such a hassle to do that. They don't want you to take anything like that on. So I have to check them and that's it. It's always, it's always a, you know, flip a coin. Are we. Is this gonna make it? But it's, you know, I'm not touring as much as I used to, especially overseas these days. I used to go to. Heck, I used to go to Europe twice a year, you know, 15 years ago. So anyway, not anymore.

[Skip]

12 string dobro pops. Is that what you said?

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah.

[Skip]

How did you amplify that? Just put it up to him.

[Roy Rogers]

That's got the arm and pickup built into it. Wow. Got it. The arm and pickup built into it of quite a unique animal. Just beautiful. It's a beautiful tonality to the guitar, but it's a Dobro like we've all seen before. However, it's. Again, it's got this cheaper quality, I guess I should say cheaper, but it's just a different quality of D Arman pickup on it. I don't know what it is about the Armans. They just made such cool, cool stuff, you know. And it's not that expensive. But now it's rare, of course, because it's part of the. It's an amplified Dobro and it's a 12 string and it's always part of my show. I mean, I remember last few years, Skip. As you know, I was opening up solo on a number of tours for Bonnie Raitt and I would get out and do my 40 minute set and I would have the, have the Martin. I would start out with a Martin and then when I brought that dobro 12 string out and I would hit some chimes or some octave stuff. On it and then go into some kind groove. It's just, you could hear just the collective awe of people because it's just, it's got that tone that just, it draws you in. What can I say, you know, I

[Skip]

mean did you have that built for you by the Dobro guys like in the 80s or something? Or is it an old ancient one?

[Roy Rogers]

No, it's not ancient. It's probably 62. 61, yeah. Dobro. Dobro made it for a while. Then they sold a story that I've heard. I'm not an expert on this stuff but it was Dobro and it's got, it has Dobro on the headstock. But then Dobro was bought by Mosright, right? And I don't know if Mosright made them or they just put out that guitar by Mosright. And then of course Mosright got bought. I didn't Gibson buy him.

[Skip]

Very complex history of both those companies. And yes, that thing sounds like a, a, a Mos right era Dobro. I used to have a five string banjo neck on a little Dobro guitar from that period. That was factory and I've never seen a 12 string. But it does sound like something they would do. And do you have that tuned like a regular 12 string guitar?

[Roy Rogers]

Well, I always, I was tuned open. So you know, being a slide man, I'm always an open tuning guys. So the Martin is, is an open E and the, the Dobro I tuned down to open D dog some. You know, I mean I have, I do use open G tuning for all you guitar guys out there. And open G is, I have a, I do have a custom made double neck which was made at my specs. It's based basically on, on, on a Gibson 125. I, I didn't want to, I didn't want a double neck that was like, like Jimmy Page. It's too heavy for me. It was just too, too heavy and cumbersome and I wanted a smaller one. So I, I actually co designed one and had a guy make a smaller kind of a three quarter neck one and double neck. So that way I could have open G and open D on the same and I could go back and forth. So that, that opens up a whole lot of possibilities. Or go regular tuning. Although I never play, pardon me, I never play slide in regular tuning because, because my style is, is based really on delta blues. So Delta blues guys always played in open tuning. So you know you could, you can play rhythmically and do that whole thing with, with your leads at the same time, like, like the guys in Mississippi, Robert Johnson. Just be specific. I mean, those kind of guys. And John House, you know, Blind Willie Johnson.

[Skip]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Roy Rogers]

Oh, Flying Willie Johnson. Great, great stuff. So it. Yeah, I mean, when it just depends on, you know, what you got going, I, I think people should understand. I mean, a lot of not taking away anything from anybody, but it just depends on, on what style you play. Most rock bands, rock bands, if they, if they, if the guy takes a slide solo, they usually, not always, but usually have a rhythm guitarist in the band too. They have another guitar player. The Delta players, obviously, they're just doing a one man band kind of thing. So, you know, they got to keep

[Skip]

everybody dancing all the time, right? Yeah, the bass, the bass and the counter melodies and all that stuff.

[Roy Rogers]

The counter thing. Yeah, the counter, all of that, you know. And when you listen to those guys. That's why Robert Johnson is so cool to listen to because his rhythm is absolutely stunning. You know, I mean, that's what always impressed me. Not just the lead aspect of things, but the rhythm. And that denotes, you know, I get asked often, oh, what comes first for you, Roy? The lyrics or the music? Generally, not always, but generally it's the music. Because the music and the rhythm of the music denotes what kind of feeling. Whether you're happy, sad, or you're bouncing around dancing, like you say, or that kind of thing. So, you know, it's usually the rhythm first. I have written songs based on a lyric, but generally not, you know, because the rhythm really sets the tone. You know, just think of it. Think of the rhythm of swaying or like, you know, Bo Diddley or like the, you know, the R B mode, making it funky. I mean, I get my ideas, I should say more from the rhythmic aspect of it. If you're bopping around then and you're feeling happy, well, then you're going to write something. You're not going to write something down, down and dirty necessarily, you know what I mean?

[Skip]

So I do. And I can just imagine those early guys with their loud national resonator guitars. They had to play a house party and there might have been 40 or 50 people or whatever and they had to, you know, and when you, when the song starts, you like it right off the bat. You don't have to wait for somebody to start singing about something. If it's good, if it's got the great, it's got the great beat, they're on their feet right off the bat. Right?

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I did A and plus Those and those in that context, especially the guys back in those days. The, you know, I mean, if you had it like a national, you know, basically a national is you got a speaker in the guitar. That's what the cone does. It amplifies it without being plugged in. So, you know, you're going to be a hell of a lot louder than the guy playing an acoustic across the street. Right?

[Skip]

Exactly, exactly.

[Roy Rogers]

So you're going to draw people to you. And I think that was part of it. I did a gig with, you know who Johnny Shines was? Johnny Shines, Absolutely.

[Skip]

He played around Sacramento for a while.

[Roy Rogers]

Oh, did he really?

[Skip]

Yes.

[Roy Rogers]

Well, I did a gig with. Yeah, he was still living back in those early 80s. We did a gig. I supported him at a private gig somewhere down in the Bay Area. I forget where. But he. He'd. He'd had a stroke and he wasn't playing like he did previously. Obviously his hands weren't working quite like they did before, but he was still singing. He still had that incredible voice and just could project and, you know, and was still doing okay. But it was. And they had a guitar for him and it was. It was an okay guitar. I don't know what brand it was, but. And I, I was just there to. To help him through that and to be kind of second guitar and. And make sure that, you know, things were okay. And I had brought my. I have a 31 national Aeolian. And I, you know, I bought a. I bought my national. Would you like to see it and play it? And his eyes lit up like doggone lanterns. And I. And let me tell you, once he put his fingers on that guitar, he played like there was no tomorrow, man. It just inspired him because he. I don't know when the last time he was. When he played a national, but he played it and we were just. I was in awe. He just. It's like he got this new vitality. And I said, whoa. So you just, you don't. You know, when you hear stuff and you're inspired and it goes a long ways for all of us guys. It just. I can't. Can't stress that enough, you know, I mean, whatever it takes. You know, you read about other people or you listen to guys like me, what we do, but like, find, Find that voice that, that you. That you wanted to express yourself. And that's all you need to do, man. Have fun with it. You know, don't. Don't worry about how. How other people did it. It's just great to see Be around people that are inspired and enjoying what they're doing. That. That's really the key, you know. And I mean, I could tell you so many instances and obviously playing with John Lee Hooker was a thrill of a lifetime and get the producers records and all that stuff, but like, get this, just being on the stage and seeing how, how heavy he could take it, you know, you're only trying, we're only trying to, to achieve that kind of what, whatever, however you don't want to find that. I mean, that's. I'm still looking. I'll always be looking for that, man, because like that's, that's what it's about. And whether or not it's a national guitar or a Dearman pick up in a Martin or your, or your funky little guitar with your amps, it doesn't matter, man. Whatever. Whatever works for you. That's it. That's that simple. But it's. People like to make it more complicated. I think that it is sometimes, but

[Skip]

that's pretty good Johnny Shine story. I've seen old timers that don't have the good stuff anymore. You know, I always thought, I remember when I got to working with the Night Cats and I thought, oh, they must have all these amp repair people and all this stuff all. And they go, what the hell are you talking about? Or people that would used to play twin reverbs and now they've been playing some solid state amp and you show up with the twin reverb and they just go, what can I play that? Charles said that buddy guy said, how come my amp don't sound like that? Because he was playing some brand new Fender thing and Charles just had his old beat up super reverb, you know. And I could just, I could just see Johnny Shines going, wow, an old national, Whoa, I know what to do with this.

[Roy Rogers]

And he did. And he did it. And it was a joy to see him do that. But it was. Yeah, I mean, you know, I. He probably hadn't played one in years, but he rose to the occasion, so it was a pleasure to see him.

[Skip]

Fantastic. Jason, earn your keep. You got a question?

[Jason]

I have so many questions. Do you want to. Do you want to say who that you collaborated with on that double neck guitar with the slot head? Because I've stared at that thing so many times and tried to ponder who, who made that thing?

[Roy Rogers]

Sure. Guy named Sean Chappelle. SE A N Sean Chappelle. C H A T P E L L and he, he moved up to, to Washington state. He Used to live in Richmond, California. But he made it for me and I actually have two of them. He made. I have two of them. I. It's. It's really. And it's got. It's got a De Arman pick, two De Armor pickups on one neck, and then it's got a P100 to get a little more gain on the. On the other neck. So he did a great job. And it's. We could talk about that guitar. I mean, he, he really put it together for me. I. It was, it was an idea that I had again, like I referred to earlier, you know, the Gibson double neck Visa. Like, like, you know, Page. Yeah. It was just too heavy for. And I said, well, I want to be able to change necks and go from back and forth or just have different tunings. Not necessarily each song changed next, but like, you know, if I want to change or modulate keys, that kind of thing. So. So in order to. To make it smaller, it's a. It's a solid body maple. But what, what we did, like, like the Martin is they have slotted headstocks, so therefore, rather than the tuners going out sideways like they normally would, they go back. Right.

[Jason]

Okay. Yeah.

[Roy Rogers]

So the next could be closer together. Dig.

[Skip]

Absolutely. And lighter.

[Roy Rogers]

And lighter. So it's lighter. And I have a switch that can easily switch necks back and forth. And they have, you know, you're just your regular volume and treble bass control kind of thing. But it's, it's. And the necks are very cool. They have very. Actually we varied the necks. One has thinner necks on them and the other one is a little bit thicker, you know, because as, you know, if you have a thicker neck, you're going to get a different kind of tone. And. But I may. I use it all the time. And if I'm. I sometimes will take it on the road. You know, if I'm flying, I have a nice case for it and everything because. But it's. It's turned some heads, I'll tell you that. That's true. It's because it's. There's nothing like it. I have two of them and they're the only two in existence.

[Jason]

So cool. And you've played with so many people, we don't have time to go through all the sessions and collaborations you've done over the years. But like, who had the strangest head scratching? Est amp setup.

[Roy Rogers]

Amp setup. Oh, you know, it was pretty straightforward, I would say. You know, I mean, like when I refer to. Referred to earlier, you know, When I. When I opened up for Stevie Ray Vaughan, I think we played that. What's that place down on the peninsula? That was a Gramshill. Anyway, the big place that they played on down at Palo Alto. Anyway, I was 10 years old.

[Skip]

Don't ask me.

[Roy Rogers]

He had four. He had a whole rack of. Not rack, but he had a whole plethora of guitar amps as well as these three or four Fender Leslie's and you know what I'm talking about. So they're all, they were all in series together. And that was the. The most unique setup I ever saw. You know, he had everything from twins to like super reverbs to like all this crazy stuff. And I remember Jim Dunlop came down there. I know new Jim pretty well too because I use Jim Dunlop slides. But he was, he was, he was. He brought the pedal that was trying to emulate the Leslie speaker. I forget what. It didn't ever take off. I don't think for Dunlop. But he gave it to Steve Ray and he was trying it out at that sound check or something like that. But that was really the. I wouldn't say strange, but it was the most intricate setup I ever saw. Otherwise, you know, I could just, you know, Hooker always just used a twin. John Lee Hooker used a twin. He plays. Played a 335,

[Skip]

you know, guitar cord.

[Roy Rogers]

You guys probably know this, but like, you know, I'll go to my. I'll put on my producer's hat. When I was producing those sessions for John Lee Hooker way back when, you know, Albert Collins played a Fender quad and I'd never heard a Fender quad amp. That's 200 watts. Am I. Am I correct? Skip 200 watts.

[Skip]

It's not. But that's okay.

[Roy Rogers]

Well, it's close to it.

[Skip]

They're loud. It's, it's. It's basically a twin reverb type of amp but with 4 12s.

[Roy Rogers]

4 12s. It had 4 12s and it was so damn loud in a studio. And of course I wasn't going to mess with Albert's tone, but we had to, we had to baffle him so much because. Because we, we cut those tracks live that we're not overdubbing here. And offender quad. I thought it was 200 watts, but anyway it was. Whatever it was, it was really loud. And I'd never heard one. I'd always heard of that amp and never seen one. The when. What. Who else? When Keith Richards came in for his track. I could say that let' he all he wanted. The offender had Just reissued the Basement. So that, that was when. The early 90s, I guess.

[Skip]

Yeah, the Tweed basement 410.

[Roy Rogers]

It was a tweed basement and they just had reissued. And if my memory serves me, well, that's all he wanted. That's, that's, you know, I mean, as we all could agree, I mean, you know, we're talking about amps and gear and how important it is, but you know, 90 of it is. Is in your fingers, guys. You know, I mean, B.B. king would still sound like B.B. king. If he played through whatever camp you were talking about, it would still be BB So, you know, I mean, it's.

[Skip]

I bet it didn't take Keith Richards long to get the sound he wanted off of that amp. Like about five seconds.

[Roy Rogers]

It did not. It did not. No, he and he and John Lee had a good time doing it. They cut Crawling Kingsnake. I'm a crawling king Snake. That's what that' on. I think it's on Mr. Lucky. I'm. I'm perusing my memory banks here, guys. So yeah, got another question laid on.

[Jason]

I got, I got, I got a bunch. What was it like the Hotspot soundtrack? Jack Nietzsche.

[Roy Rogers]

Oh. Oh, man. Taj and I just exchanged emails about this again. Well, the Hotspot soundtrack that we can

[Jason]

name some of the people on this because this might be new to people, but this is like the most star studded soundtrack. Use you and who else?

[Roy Rogers]

Taj Mahal was on National Steel and Tim Drummond was on bass. Tim used to play with the James Brown and John Lee Hooker, myself. And the drummer was from New Orleans. He was someone great. I'll remember his name. Jesus. He just. And Miles Davis.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Skip]

What?

[Jason]

You just wait. Drop that last.

[Roy Rogers]

Whoa. Miles Davis. Yeah, it was, it was, it was something. It was. I'm sorry that I can't remember the drummer's name, but what year was this, boys? 90, 91, 92. Wow.

[Jason]

And what do you remember about this? And were you just. I imagine this was kind of a. A unique recording session,

[Roy Rogers]

rather. They're rather unique. I was just happy to be there. Taj and I were. They put us up at the Chateau Marmont down on Sunset. And so we got picked up every day together and we were kind of pinching ourselves and we still do because it was such an amazing session. Jack Nietzsche, the producer. People that may not be familiar with Jack Nietzsche, he worked with Phil Spector on a lot of the stuff and a lot of the hits that we all grew up with. And he was the producer of the session. Dennis Hopper had gotten the rights to this. To this film called the Hotspot. So. So film. But the soundtrack he wanted. This is a story that I always heard that he wanted his favorite blues musician, John Lee Hooker. And his. He knew Miles very well to play on the same. On the soundtrack. And it was. He wanted it to be just what done off the. Not off the cuff, but. I mean, Nietzsche was in charge, but just live. Live recorded, if you will. So that's. That's how it happened. And, you know, I had produced John Lee's record, so they knew that I. That I knew John very well. They were concerned about his. His how he felt about, you know, doing a. Doing a soundtrack kind of thing. And he just. Because it was all around the. The whole vibe of John Lee. He doesn't say a word. He's just ooh and ah. It's just. It's a stunning soundtrack that I've had. It's just stunning. And John's plan. Taj is doing a National steel. I'm doing my. My Martin with the armored pickup through a. Through a. That's the first time. Skip that. I played through an epiphone Zephyr amp and went out and bought one. What I could find right after that. And then Miles, he wasn't there on the. On the cutting of the Basics. He overdone his. His tracks because he was, you know, the trumpet. If. When you hear the soundtrack, good luck trying to find it because it's hard to find. He would. He would mimic some of the, you know, either hooker or some of the guitar stuff that he heard. And it's just very atmospheric, I'll put it that way. And it's. It's just. It's just stunning how we. In the studio, it's pretty hard to describe. I mean, we all got to meet Miles. We went in the next day and. Or two days after we did the Basics. And Miles came in and he's. I had this picture on my mantle that they took in a studio and Miles is just smiling away, man. He had a great time. He met John Lee years, I think, before. So they knew each other, but I don't think they were good friends or anything like that, but they certainly. And he certainly was aware of John Lee Hooker and he liked the track and he just. What can I say? I mean, it was. It was stunning to be part of that. And we were really given a lot of. Lot of leeway in what we played. It wasn't really necessarily defined. Oh, we'll play this note this way. It was I was given a lot of room to, like, improvise. And so when I. I still, you know, when I take it out every once in a while and I play it and I say, my gosh, is that me? So anyway, it was. It was. And it was nominated for a Grammy Award. We didn't win it. We lost to B.B. king that year. But I was. We went to the Grammys. I was sitting. Sitting there, and it was. It was a joy to. To be there. So what can we say? Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes, man.

[Jason]

Did any of these players, some of whom I'm hypothesizing, might have been under the influence during this era? Did anybody bother to know about the movie or were they shown the movie? Or were you just, like, go into this room and jam?

[Roy Rogers]

No, no, we were. We did about. Those were the days that you. When you. I'd done a few soundtracks or commercial stuff. So those were the days before computers was. They had two lines that would. You were. You would watch the film and there'd be one line that. That crosses the line. Just picture a line going across a screen and then the second line would follow it. And that. The second line is the downbeat. Got it?

[Jason]

Oh, wow.

[Roy Rogers]

So you see one line go, and then there's another one, and boom. Downbeat. So it wasn't just jam. No. We had certain. Certain stuff. By the way, the drummer's name. How could I forget? Earl Palmer. The great Earl Palmer. Earl Palmer played on all fancy dominoes. How could I forget? And Earl was. It was just unbelievable. And nicest cat. He was the guy for, you know, he played on the Fat man for Fats Domino. And he. And he lived in la. He had moved from New Orleans to la. So Earl was just a gem to meet. And we were. Earl had a book. He had his little sidebar. You know, you get to know people who are there in the studio. We're hanging out and there's thinking about, okay, we're gonna do this. This next thing for the movie. And this. This is gonna be like 30 seconds or this is gonna be a minute and a half, whatever. And we do it to film or we do this slice and so forth. And so you get to know people. And we're talking to Earl. I said. Earl said, comes to. Everybody says, well, you gotta sign my book. Oh, what? Well, everybody signs my book that he worked with. He's got this little black book, and it's got virtually anybody that you could think of. He'd done so many. You know, he did sessions with The Rat Pack with the. With the Wrecking Crew.

[Skip]

Sure.

[Roy Rogers]

In la. I mean, he was on a lot of that Wrecking Crew stuff. And you'd look in his book and he had every. Everybody that you could think of in that book. I said, well, you don't. I'm not. No, no. Everybody signs my book.

[Skip]

Wow. Where's that book Now?

[Roy Rogers]

I know that's a very good question. That would be worth a lot of money. But, yeah. How could I forget his name? Forget it, man. Forget about it.

[Jason]

This. This soundtrack is available. You can still stream it. It's also, I think, coveted by audio files. So I think there's been some like, fancy, really heavyweight vinyl reissues of it too. So. Super cool.

[Roy Rogers]

Really? Yeah. I would be in. If you have that information. Give that to me because I am unaware of that. That's what Taj and I were just discussing the other day. I don't have vinyl, I just have CD of it.

[Jason]

There's a. There's an audiophile company. I'm looking at it now. It's. This is. So this is how fancy it is. It's 45 RPM double record, 180 gram called acoustic sounds. They. They sell it.

[Roy Rogers]

Acoustic Sound, Analog production.

[Jason]

Soundtrack is the label, I guess. But, yeah, they've got it on vinyl.

[Roy Rogers]

Wow, man, thanks for that. I will pass that along.

[Skip]

Send him a link.

[Jason]

Yeah, I'll send you a link. How's that?

[Roy Rogers]

Oh, man, great. Send me a link. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Very cool.

[Jason]

What was Jack Nietzsche like?

[Roy Rogers]

He was. He was Mr. Friendly. He was great, you know, he was. He was, you know, really mellow in the studio. It's not, you know, I mean, a great guy. We had a good time. He would. He really gave us a lot of. Lot of freedom within the parameters a lot of times on a soundtrack, I believe it or not. My very first session, guys of note, I should say. Actually, my very first professional session, I was playing with a guy named David Bergen in the Bay area in the 70s. And we're playing this little club in the city and these guys come up to us and say, hey, you guys sound really good. How would you like to come to the studio the next day? And we're looking for folk musicians and acoustic players. And Bergen played harmonica. I played, you know, slide guitar. Real kind of a sunny Terry Brownie, Mickey kind of thing. So we went. We said, sure, we go to Fantasy Records. Jack Nietzsche is producing the soundtrack for One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. So I work with Jack Nietzsche 40 some odd years later on the hotspot too. What. Amazing. Yeah. Pretty weird, huh?

[Jason]

So that, yeah, you, you started regaling us with stories and my, My main question, which I totally forgot about until now is you grew up in Redding, Cal. Kind of an unlike.

[Roy Rogers]

I was born in Reading. Born in Reading, Grew up in Vallejo, California.

[Jason]

Okay, but even still Vallejo. So did you just to become the pro. Amazing musician that you are, were you just in the Bay Area the whole time? Which is not so far from Vallejo, California?

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, Vallejo is part of the Bay Area. Yeah, exactly. I, I played it. I, you know, I was a, you know, I'm 75 years old, man. So like I started, started. I started playing rock and roll when I was in junior high school. So I was, we. I mean, I don't want to get in that whole history thing, but I, you know, I started playing, took up guitar 12, got in a band at 13. We were, we were wearing gold Lemay jackets, buddy. And, and doing.

[Skip]

I want to see that picture with the flared pants and everything. The young Roy.

[Roy Rogers]

I was like. But I was playing with high school guys and you know, that was before the British thing. So we were playing, you know what I say, you can't sit down. You know, the stroll, all that kind of stuff. Wade there, that was 1963, for God's sake. And then I got into. I had a guitar instructor that turned me on not only to Chuck Berry stuff, which was what we were playing, obviously, you know, Johnny B. Goode and all that kind of stuff that was mandatory, but he was it way into Johnny guitar Watson and B.B. king and people like that. Of course, I didn't know who they. Those guys were when I was 13, 14. Well, that put me in the whole direction of the blues guys. So then, you know, Jimmy Reed, John Lee Hooker. And then you had, then you had these British bands coming out. And of course, as you guys, well, remember, you know, the Beatles, they didn't write their first stuff. They covered R B stuff, the Animals and the Stone. They didn't write their first stuff. They covered rhythm and blues. You know, I didn't know who McKinley Morgan Field was a la Muddy Water. I didn't know Chester Burnett was Howlin Wolf. You know, I didn't know. So then I, you know, I got into the blues to. I'm. I'm circumventing. Getting to your question. The answer to your question. I got into the blues. I'm in the Bay Area and I was playing Robert Johnson stuff when I was 15, 16. So that's, that's the. I didn't. Then I found myself, what, 30 years later now, 25 years later, got a call for to be in John Lee Hooker's band. I couldn't believe it. So that's why I started playing with John Lee Hooker.

[Jason]

Incredible.

[Roy Rogers]

You know, before that I.

[Skip]

You got to see some of the earlier generation guys when they were. Did you ever see Tebow and Walker?

[Roy Rogers]

Missed him. Miss T. Borne Walker.

[Skip]

But you saw Muddy and you got this John Lee Hooker and you got to see a lot of that era of people when they were still.

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah. Freddie King saw Howlin Wolf at a place called the Avalon Ballroom. Yeah. So I got to see a lot of those guys and, you know, the blues just became, you know, something that just. And then, you know, the whole thing about trekking back and. And my. My older brother brought me home the Robert Johnson record. And I just said, what is this? What is. What is this?

[Skip]

Hell is this?

[Roy Rogers]

You know, Elmore James and stuff like that. But I really got into the delta blues because I love the. The whole aspect of. And I don't play slide. Like I said before, that's not an open tune because you can't do your rhythm and bass thing at the same time. The rhythm is crucial. So it's not just about the slide work, but it's about the rhythmic work. It's a combination. For me, Charlie Patton. Yeah, less so Charlie Patton because I didn't have his earlier records. I got them later. But I heard Robert Johnson first. He was really the. And then, you know, Sunhouse was. You know, they used to have some specials. And Sunhouse could. You could see him. And what a strong guy. What a powerful. I did get to see buckle white people like that, you know. But the, you know, at the same time, getting back to early days, I mean, I, you know, playing in a rock and roll band and playing into blues. You know, these guys would come to. They did like a Berkeley Blues Festival. I was in High School. 65. I don't know, 66 or something. And they. I saw Muddy Waters. He still had cotton on harmonica and guy named out of Texas. I forget his name anyway. Lightning Hopkins, sog. A guy named Clifton Cheniere didn't know anything about China. What's that? Clifton Cheniere had his crown on his head. He was playing at the Berkeley Blues Festival and he came out and just ripped the joint. He ripped. Was so strong. And then lo and behold, after that, then you, you know, people got started getting hip to zydeco music, you know. So anyway, it's. It's a great process. When you. When you. When I'm asked a question like that, it. It's. It's fun to recollect how things were all influenced by so many different things. But for me, it was, you know, getting into the blues. I mean, I. Early on and then playing it, and then, you know, it was. Right. That was a time that people should understand that there was so much music happening and I wasn't a fan of, quote, the San Francisco scene, the psychedelic Endless Jam stuff. I was much more akin to, you know, the Hooker and Jimmy Reed and, you know, you know, Cats, Domino, that kind of stuff. That just. That was the pull for me. And then at the time, you know, it was. I mean, B.B. king. We saw B.B. king in my hometown of Vallejo, and we helped them bring their gear into the local vets hall. And two weeks later, he played the Fillmore for the first time, that kind of thing. So.

[Jason]

Wow.

[Roy Rogers]

It was a very much of a transition that people. It's hard to get that when you. You know, I can. I was there, so I got to see it, and it was very moving stuff. I mean, you see these guys up there playing their hearts out. And I said, you know, it's not like I didn't like rock and roll, but I just. That was the pull for me. So that's where it took me. So here I am.

[Jason]

Before we let you.

[Roy Rogers]

I'm not boring.

[Skip]

No.

[Jason]

But before we let you go, you hinted at all the work you're doing to promote the new record. Tell us about the new record.

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, sure. Thank you. Well, it's. It's the new record. I. I started writing this. This recording during COVID Pardon me, because I haven't. Haven't been in the studio for 10 years. I'm not one to go in a studio unless I have something to say or think I got something to say. So I've been working on these yard. These songs for a while, and they run the gamut. It's always acoustic, electric. For me, it's always a combo plate. Jason. So there's a fair amount of acoustic stuff on there. My wife urged me to do a cover, and I don't normally do covers, but I decided to do one on this record. And there's one cover of a song that you probably may remember, and it's quite different. I've always been a Stones fan, and I did a cover of a song called the Last Time, which was one of their early hits, but I did quite a different version. So that's the COVID of the record. But otherwise, it's really. I would say that this is more of a writing record. It's certainly got slide guitar licks all over it. But then again, it's writing wise and just song wise. I'll tell you this. One of the main songs on the record is called He's a Legend in His Own Mind. I'll let that rest. You could take that for what you want, but that's very applicable to our times, as we say. So I'll just leave that. That as it is. And it's. I, I love. I love writing songs that have a little bit of bite to them. You know, I'll, you know, kind of like the Mose Allison aspect of things, man. You know, you gotta turn. It's not just. Yeah, Mose Allison.

[Skip]

Yeah, I loved him when I was 10. And, and brief, brief pause. If you guys want to hear Roy Rogers in a different sort of way, the records that you did with the keyboard with Ray Manzarek, they are, they're angry, right? It isn't. It isn't. Hippie noodling bunch, you know, some older guys who used to play all the time sitting right. No. Like you said, I imagine your new record that you did has got some edge to it. And those, those records that, that you did with Ray, I remember you, I fixed a brown Princeton for you, and you went to the site, did some recording, and on your way home, you stopped at the ranch in Dixon and said. Gave me like a little cassette, I think it might have been, and. Oh, it's just. These guys aren't just sort of sitting around reminiscing, you know, this is, this is. It was very up to date, very modern and very energetic and powerful, which I'm sure your latest one is. Is probably that way with a little. With a little side. A little snide comment. Mose Allison or two.

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, your mind is on vacation. Yeah, there you go. You know, it's. It's. I think at this point, you know, there's some reflection in the record, in the lyrics, I suppose, but it's definitely going for it. I'm a guy that always is trying to push the envelope. You can't. You can't rest on your laurels ever. You know, there's always something to learn and, you know, whatever age you are, whether you're young. Yeah. It's not an angry record or anything like that. I'm so happy to be here, buddy. But it's, it's. Yeah, it's pushing the Envelope. And I've. Whether or not you do that lyrically and, or with. With the music you write, you got to have fun with it, man. I tell people, don't. Can't be too serious. Don't take yourself too seriously. Have fun with it and take it where it's going to go and hopefully have the right players. When I was with Ray, it was such a joy to do those records with Ray because, you know, it wasn't about doing anything Doors issued or anything like that. It was something new. And I said, ray, the only reason to do this is to come up with something new for. And we did. So that was nice. But thanks for mentioning the new record. It's. It's called the Sky's the Limit and I'm having a lot of fun playing. You know, I'm making sure that I. Whenever you make a record, you got to make sure that you know the songs well enough so you don't forget the lyrics. Right.

[Jason]

Of course you've got your, you got your Gibson with the P90 on the COVID Did you pull out all the guitars for this record or was that the only one he used?

[Roy Rogers]

No, no, that's the, that's. That's featured on the record, certainly on the, on the track that I mentioned. So it's featured for the solos, but it's. I've got all the, all the guitars. I've got the, the, the Martin and I've got the, the Gibson. I don't know if there's a 12 string on there. There's a. I don't know if I use the Dobro on anything on this record. I'm trying to think. Nah, I think I just did mainly that and I used the double deck. And I don't think there's the dobro12 string on this guy, but there's enough on other records that people can check out. So anyway, it was a lot of fun actually. I'll leave it like this. I recorded up here in Nevada City and I recorded the basics on a 16 track 2 inch tape recorder, which I was stunned that this place had a 16 track 2 inch, which by a lot of people is, is one of the, if not the best way to record in the old school way analog. And then we transferred it to Pro Tools. So that's, that's for tonal stuff, you know. So it's, you know, recording on a 16 track 2 inch, you know, it keeps you on your toes. And that's, that's how I did it at the beginnings.

[Skip]

So you want to shout out to that studio in Nevada City that has a 16 track 2 inch deck.

[Roy Rogers]

They're not a commercial studio. It was a private studio. So he wouldn't want, he wouldn't want me to do that.

[Skip]

Was it an Ampex?

[Roy Rogers]

It was not Ampex. Yeah, it was. I could.

[Skip]

Some big old monstrous.

[Roy Rogers]

I'll tell you what it is. I can read what it was on a Mara machines. Wow.

[Skip]

I don't know what that is.

[Roy Rogers]

I didn't know either. Amera M A R A. I'm looking at the thing. Mirror machine, 16 track 2 inch. Yeah, wow. I didn't either. But you know, I mean, as, as people may not realize, I mean when you, when you record on a, on a tape machine, two inch tape, which is old school as you can get, you got to bias the machine. What does that mean? Well, I'll let you guys explain that to your listeners, but you gotta, it takes time to bias it to make sure that it matches the tonality of the machine for every track and that it's time consuming, but it's worth it, you know, so anyway, that's. I had a ball doing that. But it's, it's, it's always fun to go in a studio. It's, it's, you know, you're trying to get it the best you can, but it's really, you know, it's a. It can be an elusive animal, I'll put it that way. You want to, you want to get it as best you can, but you want to get that feeling and you don't want to think it through too much. So.

[Jason]

Love it. Roy, thank you. This was amazing.

[Roy Rogers]

Thanks for having me on. Both you, Skip and Jason, you know, I wish you luck. I think, you know, it's. Yeah, it's great to talk about gear, but it ain't just about gear, as we all know. It's about the people. You know, you gotta place it in the right hands and everybody has a story to tell and they're all valid, you know, some are, you know, we've all been inspired by people. I mean, I've gotten to play with a lot of, lot of folks over the years and opening up for people and playing festivals and I feel very privileged to have done that. But it's really, you know, when it, when it. We're all, we're all gear geeks to some extent because, you know, you, you love what you do through the. Whatever you're making use of. And if it's a, you know, I would be lost without my, my boogie amps. And, and my axis, I mean, you know, it just, it goes without saying I could still play, but it wouldn't be the same. So that's why we love talking about gear. But it's a, you know, I'm, I think a lot of times people can, can, can. They have to get through the weeds to get to the real stuff. And there's a lot of stuff out there that, that can get in the way of doing that. And don't, don't get hung up on, on just what, the latest technology, you know, that so.

[Jason]

Totally.

[Skip]

Well, I'm making the Epiphone Electar Zephyr from the very early 40s of Roy's that I've had for a long time trying to get out of it, but now we just have to do it. And by the way, if any of our listeners can turn up a schematic for the Epiphone Electar Zephyr with Tremolo, I'd be interested in seeing it. Very interested. I think I can do it without it. And of course, it's a nightmare project because, you know, those were built and, or invented by Nat Daniel of Dan Electro fame. And he was working for Epiphone when those amps came out. And he, of course, was a super genius, crazy guy, but he used some complicated circuits. And that is, that might be the, that might be the first commercial product of any note that actually even has Tremolo. And you can bet.

[Roy Rogers]

Well, as I, as I told, as I told you that, Skip, I, I, when I played on that, on that soundtrack, as Jason asked me about the hotspot, I, I didn't have my amp with me because I'd flown in. I left. Actually, long story short, I left the band on the road in the east coast and had to fly to LA for the session because I said, I can't miss this session. So I did that and I got there and there was an Epiphone Zephyr amp which was owned by Jack Nietzsche. And he said, I just had this redone. You want to try this amp? I can get you any amp you want. But, like. And I plugged into this Epiphone Zephyr as we're discussing, and was just enthralled by the sound of it because it's got that old roll of speaker and all that stuff. And I went out and I went back out on the road and found one the next week and bought it for like, I don't know, 250 bucks.

[Skip]

That the one I have?

[Roy Rogers]

That's the one you have? Yeah.

[Skip]

So I have confidence it has a little plastic. It has a little plastic inch or two long little thingy on top of the amp that's made for you to put.

[Roy Rogers]

Put.

[Skip]

To put your name inside, you know, like, type out. It's this little plastic thing. And I think it has, has the name of the music store. Well, you know, Roy, I collect old typewriters, so of course, I had to find some old tan paper, and I made a little thing to slip in it that says, roy Rogers, Nevada County Caliph.

[Roy Rogers]

Right.

[Skip]

So it looks like it's been on there for a trillion years.

[Roy Rogers]

Right.

[Skip]

And of course, that's gonna, that's gonna increase the base rate response of the

[Jason]

amp quite a bit.

[Skip]

You know, extend the, Extend the frequency.

[Jason]

This is why the amp's not done yet. Skip was aging the paper.

[Roy Rogers]

There you go. There you go. Reminds me of my. I got a, I got a 78 jukebox that you have to, you, you can flip it down and it only has like 20 plays and, and you could do the same thing with the names of the tunes when you flip down this thing and it's. I need to use that typewriter to put the names of the songs. Yeah, we can do those.

[Skip]

We got an hour and a half out of them.

[Jason]

Yeah, great. Thanks, Roy.

[Skip]

No, we don't have to, we don't have to do anything else now. I'm, I'm signing off.

[Roy Rogers]

I probably talked too much, but anyway, thanks for having me, guys.

[Skip]

That was fantastic. And maybe we'll be able to do it again. We've had a few people. Little Charlie, Charlie who've been on more than once, and we may have to check back with Roy Rogers before too long.

[Roy Rogers]

I know Charlie. Well, good. Pleasure. Thank.

[Skip]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Roy Rogers]

All right, all right. Okay. I knew Charlie very well and Rick Estrin, too, but Charlie was a great player.

[Skip]

Yeah, you hard. Well, I said that about you. You don't want to have to go after you. And you don't want to have to go after little Charlie either, because you better be bringing it, right? Those guys, you know, he was such an emotional player, and I, I, I hear that in your stuff, too, so. And he knew how to make Spanish rice, so next time, that's the only thing. We didn't get an easy recipe out of you, but. So that's a good excuse.

[Roy Rogers]

Well, you got to get my wife's book. She got a, Got a cookbook. It's called the Down Home Cooking from Away with Southern Bell, Daniel Rogers.

[Skip]

So my last type that say that again, slow down.

[Roy Rogers]

Home cooking from a wayward Southern belle, Gaynell Rogers. And it's got. She cooked. She's a Southern girl, she's from New Orleans. So she cooked all these meals for people over the years, and it's a kind of a memoir slash cookbook. And it's available, I think, on Amazon. And she just. I'm very proud of her. She. It's. I mean, she's cooked for a whole bunch of folks and. And she related these stories. Big Mama Thornton, what, you know, body raked, Wynton Marsalis, all these kind of Steve Miller people like that. I'm just tossing names at you guys. But it's basically a memoir. And these meals. And then she has the recipes in the back. Very cool. Anyway, there we go.

[Skip]

We better sell a few copies of that.

[Jason]

I'll include a link to that.

[Skip]

Yes, absolutely.

[Roy Rogers]

All right, guys, thanks again.

[Skip]

Good luck in the weather.

[Roy Rogers]

All right. Thanks, man. All the best.

[Skip]

Wow. Well, I told you he was great. You can get going. I don't even want to say anything after that. I don't want to follow that.

[Jason]

You don't want to field any amp

[Skip]

questions, stupid stories or whatever after that. I just feel like a wasted life. I didn't do anything with Miles Davis. Dang it. No. Yeah, but it's fun. I mean, knowing that that guy is going to be wailing on that crazy ass epiphone when it ever gets fixed up.

[Roy Rogers]

That. That gives you.

[Skip]

You know, that.

[Roy Rogers]

That.

[Skip]

That's inspiring to me too.

[Jason]

So I like that. He's kind of got a cool guitar setup, too. He's got the custom made double neck and puts. The. Puts the D arm and the flat top acoustics. Like, it's kind of cool.

[Skip]

He just doesn't give a. He just doesn't care.

[Jason]

I think he does care.

[Skip]

Well, I mean, he does. He just. He's. He's certainly not gonna be, you know, endorsing Roy Rogers, Les Paul, or, you know, something. Right. So he just pretty much does his own thing and he gets some crazy sounds. This. Those records with Ray Manzarek are not mellow and relaxed. They're very edgy and articulate and so there you go.

[Jason]

Yeah, there you go.

[Skip]

It is a 1030.

[Jason]

It is 1030.

[Skip]

I will answer some questions if you want, but I have so many other things. I got a whole nother podcast worth of thanking people for stuff and whining about things, and we could just call it good or I'm happy to answer some questions.

[Jason]

Well, let's think about this. Why don't you. Why don't we go through a couple? Because that is the gist of this show, people, everybody. If you've made it this far and have no idea what we're you're doing here, we normally field questions on tube amps and Skip tells you why they're not working, hopefully. And you email us a [e-mail] why don't I read a couple and then we'll just take that. It'll then, then we'll be done.

[Skip]

Are there any related to cornbread by chance?

[Jason]

Are you being serious? Do you know of one?

[Skip]

No, but I just. It's cloudy and thoughts go to cornbread. I have a square cast iron pan that really makes some good cornbread, baby.

[Jason]

Well, we've got a beginner's corner one. Let's assume. If you've made it, just start, all right?

[Skip]

Just start.

[Roy Rogers]

All right?

[Skip]

You've made it this far.

[Jason]

You've made it this far. Okay. Phil, longtime listener, first time caller, except he didn't call, he just emailed. How is it possible for an amp with two EL34.6CA7 power tubes with, with max power dissipation of 25 watts per tube to have an output power rating of 90 watts? As an example, the Trainer Base Master Mark 2 YBA1A is rated at 90 watts, while the Little Brother YBA1 has the same output tube configuration but is rated at a much more expected 40 watts. The main difference I can see is the output transformer in the YB1A is much bigger than the YB1. Can you explain the differences between these circuits? That allows one to be twice the power with the same output tubes. That's from Phil in Oakland.

[Skip]

For one thing, wattage is not as hard and fast as you might expect. Like traditionally, like in the 60s, a company would say, you know, it's got two 6L6s and maybe it's 30 or 40 watts. But the ad will say, you know, peak wattage 100 WA watts, right? A lot of it depends on the frequencies that you're trying to pass. Remember I was whining about that output transformer some fool is trying to sell first 265 50s and rated at 100 watts, but only super high. Can't even hear it frequencies, which is why the transformer was so small. So hi Fi, 25 watts would require huge transformers compared to a guitar amplification amp with a very limited frequency response, right? So the companies lie their, their heads off and basically, if you want more power from the same tubes, you need higher voltage to run them on a bigger, wider frequency response output transformer. And the power supply has to be able to supply the extra juice needed to generate more watts. I wouldn't say that that it's really 40 versus 90 on those trainers. It's probably not really that much, but that's how you do it. You can have a 2.6L 6amp, that's 15 watts, like an old Masco. But you can have a 2.6L 6Amp, that's 60 watts. Like some of the early 80s fenders had two power tubes and they called them. There's one called the Fender 75 that only has two 6L6s, but it has huge transformers and they run them really, really hot. And by the way, we can't buy those tubes anymore. So a lot of those amps are a little bit tricky to use today because we can't re tube it every six months with vintage tubes that cost 250 a piece. So I spend a lot of time explaining to people how to use variacs and various ways to get some of those amps to not run so hard. The classic Dynaco hi fi amp, the Mark 2s, the stereo 70s. They ran two EL34s, 500 volts on the plates, 50 or 60 milliamps per tube. And the instructions would stay, you know, check your tubes every six months. If you're going to be buying Mullard EL34s every six months today, even a tube that's made in Russia that says mullered on it could get expensive. But real ones that could handle that kind of, you know, conditions are very, very expensive. So the bottom line on that question is same power. Tubes can go from way down here in wattage to way up there in in wattage. But the higher you go, the harder it is on the tubes. You know, a Formula one racing car has like a motor the size of a Toyota, a like a little four cylinder thing, but it gets 2,000 horsepower from the same kind of physically size shaped deal. But of course they got to rebuild it after every race, right. Because it's running so hot that it can't run like that forever. So what do you think? Did I get that pretty close in there?

[Jason]

I think. I think you answered it. Thank you, Phil. Keep the questions coming. Phil.

[Skip]

Yeah. Either of those trainers criminally undervalued. Okay, there you go.

[Jason]

Ian in London says, although I don't really understand most of what you discuss, I very much enjoy the show. From yield London Town. Perhaps it's my aging limey ears. But am I the only one who thinks Skip sounds exactly like Chris Shiflett from the Foos? The Foo Fighters. Any chance of abing them to compare their tonal differences?

[Skip]

I don't know who that is. Is.

[Jason]

He's. Remember the Foo Fighters?

[Roy Rogers]

I don't.

[Skip]

Jamie, I do want to go there and have a pint with the guy and we could discuss it.

[Roy Rogers]

Right?

[Jason]

Yeah. Either of them.

[Skip]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Jason]

Okay. And then the Foos.

[Skip]

Like if you heard of the Foo Fighters. But I just. I can't say that when they were big, I wasn't listening to that. So I'm not exactly sure what they're all about.

[Jason]

All right, and then we'll do. Let's do one more. I'm listening to your last episode. This is from Federico. Listening to your last episode while finally putting together the speaker cones of an Italian FBT prototype of the early of early 60. I had to wait to return to Italy to finish it. I'm the Italian guy who was living in northern Norway. This time it's not a question, but a tip. Hard learned after spending three days troubleshooting a prototype amp that I'm making. It was still farting bad with blocking distortion. And after putting a grid stopper and checking biases and oscillation at the end, I tear down the output transformer after measuring it that it came out instead of having a ratio of 5000 to 4 ohms, it had 4000 to 4 ohms, which was way too little for a 6v6. Lesson of the day. Never trust, always double check. Thanks for the awesome podcast, guys, and have a nice, nice day. And then he included a photo of the FBT. So there you go.

[Skip]

5K, 4K. I wouldn't have thought that would make that big of a difference, but Alpa Transformers are important, so. Yeah, it sounds like he's got it figured out.

[Jason]

He's got it figured out. Thanks for. Thanks for keeping us posted. And then we have a whole bunch of questions for our next episode. I want to thank our sponsors again. Amplified Parts, Emerald City Guitars, and of course, GRE Guitars. Thanks to our Patreon patrons, we did a poll if you were to have a meetup at your house. Garage sale. October seemed to be the favorite month for this to take place. I don't know if you agree with that Skip or not, but that's the

[Skip]

only thing could be there could be hot, but the only thing that could really, really be a drag is rain. And I have gotten Everybody wants to get in on the Act. I've gotten a lot of response, and a lot of people would like it to be big. One person even suggested that people could bring their own stuff, like a swap meet.

[Jason]

That could cannibalize some of your sales. But, yeah, that could be fun.

[Skip]

Yeah, maybe, maybe not. I. I think it's obviously at some point gonna happen, but it'll be a big deal for me. I'll have to, you know, clean the house. Heck, we'd probably have to have a bathroom, like a blue room, if there was, like, 40 people. If there's 50 people. Yeah.

[Jason]

You don't want them in your house.

[Skip]

Don't. Well, I'd be all right. Some people have asked if they could come and camp out like, the night before.

[Jason]

Wow, this is like Woodstock.

[Skip]

I know. That's what I'm saying. Of course. And then, you know, Keith Carey and Bob Armstrong and Lee Jeffries set up over in the corner playing some cool, you know, swing and jazz and stuff. I mean, I just. People have been. Somebody said, well, I could barbecue. And I'm just going, oh, my God. But. But I'll. All I'll tell people is this.

[Roy Rogers]

If.

[Skip]

If and when it happens, it's on. I mean, someone said he would come from Colorado, right? So if I say it's on, it'll be a lot of notice. I'm thinking six months, probably, and it is on. I'm not going to change my mind at the last minute because it's the kind of thing that a lot of. A lot more people than I would have thought would say, oh, I'm coming for that. Well, crap. You said you drive to 20 hours to come down here.

[Jason]

Of course. I mean, I have to be there. I. I should point out October is six months from now.

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah.

[Skip]

Yeah. I didn't say which October, though, did I? And then, of course, we always have the live remote. And I. I really want to have one of those flippy things that's on Better Call Saul, you know. Right. That thing with the air compressor at the bottom. That, like that long, plastic little creature that you have at your used car lot opening or something.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah, those are. Those are very easy to get.

[Skip]

What about a big spotlight? Do you remember seeing those when you were a kid?

[Jason]

Sure. Movie premiere. Yeah.

[Roy Rogers]

Yeah.

[Skip]

Big spotlight. No, I don't know.

[Jason]

We got the band, so we got to figure out catering, music and then the bathroom situation.

[Skip]

Gotta have a vegetarian selection.

[Jason]

I'll bring the vegetarian for some people. So I'm driving right through Lake Shasta or Mount Shasta. There's Plenty of vegetarian restaurants there.

[Skip]

There is. And we'd have to remember the main goals in order. Less stuff in my barn because I don't want to die with it. More money in my hand because we always need it. And then after that, I'd want anybody who showed up and came to be really happy that they did. And one time a million years ago, I had to get an amp repair class. And that was my bottom line too. You had to pay. But at the end, are you glad you went and was it worthwhile? And that's what we'd be trying for.

[Jason]

I think we take the rent to own model. It's a hundred dollars to attend this thing.

[Roy Rogers]

Thing.

[Jason]

But it's credit towards anything you buy.

[Skip]

There's been a lot of good ideas like that. Yeah, yeah, there's been a lot of good ideas and a lot of people offering to do, you know, real help. You could imagine Danger UXB could organize that thing in his sleep. You know, I know a lot of people who aren't just spaced out like me, but you know, who are a little bit more logistical, like you say, for instance. So we will plan it. And I. The only reason why I want to do it is I've got. I thought more people would come and buy stuff over the last few years, but not that many people have. So the idea would be to get enough people here to like make a little dent where there's maybe at least a 10 by 10 space out there that. That's concrete instead of old organ amps stacked up, you know, So I think

[Jason]

you could do that. I think that this could work really well.

[Skip]

Well, we'll be. Keep any ideas you have. Keep them to yourself. No, any ideas you have, let me know. And thanks to all the sponsors. Thanks for Roy Rogers. That was.

[Jason]

Yeah, that was amazing.

[Skip]

And thanks to you, Jason. And keep the questions coming and next time we won't have someone yak so long and we'll be able to whack down the question list.

[Jason]

All right, and you're going to look at your October schedule and see if,

[Skip]

what, what year exactly. I've got. I've got that Stones tour coming up. I gotta remember, I gotta do that.

[Roy Rogers]

Perfect.

[Skip]

All right, thanks everyone.