Day 3, 2025 TTPOA SWAT Competition " New Teams Competing and Lessons Learned"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Day 3, 2025 TTPOA SWAT Competition – “New Teams Competing and Lessons Learned”

Podcast: The TTPOA Podcast
Host: TTPOA Host (Brandon)
Guests: Tanner (SWAT Commander, Forney PD), Coy (Sniper, Mesquite PD)
Release Date: October 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around the experiences of two new teams—Forney and Mesquite PD—competing for the first time at the 2025 TTPOA SWAT Competition. The discussion dives into leadership, training culture, equipment takeaways, departmental support, and most importantly, the lessons learned from entering a high-level SWAT competition for the first time. The tone throughout is candid, supportive, and practical, aimed at inspiring and guiding other first-time or prospective competition teams.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Introducing New Teams and Leadership Transitions

[00:14–03:25]

• Tanner (Forney PD):
  • SWAT Commander, holding dual duty as patrol lieutenant.
  • Took over as commander in December, following a recent promotion.
  • Team composition: 1 commander, 1 team leader, 12 operators.
• Coy (Mesquite PD):
  • 8 years at Mesquite, 6 on SWAT, 4.5 as sniper.
  • Internal SWAT school, first time competing at TTPOA.

Memorable Quote:

“Kudos to you for being admin, basically…wearing gold and coming out here and humbling yourself to do this. I truly mean that.”
— Brandon, [02:10]

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2. The Decision to Compete: Leadership Buy-In and Departmental Support

[03:25–10:15]

• Both teams decided to observe prior competitions before entering.
• Leadership changes at Mesquite PD (younger leadership) were instrumental in pushing for participation.
• Both departments fully funded their teams (registration, travel, etc.).
• All training and prep time fell to the officers themselves—no extra days provided beyond standard training.

Notable Insight:

“It comes down to leadership changes…I think it’s very important for your leadership to be able to go to trainings, go to conferences, to learn…because that’s the standard.”
— Coy, [07:51]

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3. Training Constraints and Preparation

[10:16–13:08]

• Forney: Regular twice-monthly 8-hr training blocks, plus 8–10 extra practice sessions dedicated to the competition.
• Mesquite: Only able to train together 2–3 times before the event, mostly outside of duty hours, due to part-time SWAT status and competing responsibilities.
• Both teams highlighted the challenge of navigating busy schedules and limited dedicated prep time.

Memorable Moment:

“It’s a heavy lift to do something you’ve never done before with five more guys who’ve never done it…and limited training time.”
— Brandon, [13:14]

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4. Equipment Lessons Learned

[15:27–21:48]

• Sniping:
  • Stability bags were identified as a crucial advantage (e.g., Armageddon bags, which are lightweight but expensive).
  • Lighter rifles and platform-suitable optics (LPVOs) now seen as non-negotiable.
• Team logistics:
  • Support roles (gear wrangling, on-the-spot problem solving) were found to be just as important as shooters.
  • Forney realized the importance of bringing extra personnel for support and backup roles (e.g., two competent snipers).
• Personal investment:
  • Participants advocated for purchasing personal gear for competition, citing differences in setup requirements from standard SWAT operations.

Notable Quote:

“If you’re really going to be serious at this, you better buy your own shit, you better have your own pistol, you better have your own rifle, and you better have some own personal stuff…you make your own investment to invest in yourself.”
— Brandon, [21:48]

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5. Operational Takeaways & Applying Competition Lessons

[23:42–29:03]

• Tanner (Forney):
  • Plans to leverage “competition-style” rules and stress to create better real-world training.
  • Recognizes the need to add agility drills and utilize their extensive training land for this.
• Coy (Mesquite):
  • Emphasizes building interdepartmental relationships; humility is critical for SWAT members.
  • Sees physical fitness and “time on gun” as primary development areas.
  • Acknowledges the importance of honest self-assessment regarding preparation:

    “If you can’t say to yourself, like, and be honest, like, no, I haven’t put the time in…then you don’t deserve to win.”

Notable Quotes:

“Having humility in this job is very, very tough for a lot of people. If you’re on SWAT, you should be the most humble guy at your department.”
— Coy, [27:11]
“You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes.”
— Brandon, [32:12]

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6. Building Community & Culture within SWAT

[32:20–36:57]

• Brandon and guests discuss the importance of camaraderie, collaboration, and not hoarding knowledge:
  • Teams are encouraged to “beg, borrow, and steal” from each other to improve collectively.
  • Building relationships is essential since teams frequently work together in real-world scenarios.
  • Highlight the direct impact of networking for operational effectiveness (e.g., joint operations, shared resources).
  • Both Forney and Mesquite have ramped up sending officers to outside training (TTPOA and otherwise).

Memorable Quote:

“If I’m scared that you’re going to take something away from me, then maybe I need to work a little harder…We reached out to Plano…they have the ranger rope, we know this is going to be here, and you have to ask and build relationships.”
— Brandon, [25:18]
“If you don’t come [to the competition], then you know what I think about you…nothing personal.”
— Brandon, [40:06]

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7. Advice for Other New or Prospective Teams

[38:04–end]

• There is tremendous value even in just participating, regardless of rank or finish.
• Start training for competitions immediately after this year's event ends; operational prep and competition prep are ultimately the same.
• Teams are encouraged to take the leap and compete, even if nervous or underprepared.

Closing Wisdom:

“Prepare for everything. Just like the job, your sleep, your eating habits, your training habits…prepare those immediately.”
— Coy, [39:27]
“Competition builds excellence.”
— Brandon, [40:12]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Kudos to you for being admin, basically…wearing gold and coming out here and humbling yourself to do this.” — Brandon, [02:10]
• “If you’re on SWAT, you should be the most humble guy at your department.” — Coy, [27:11]
• “If you can’t say to yourself, like, and be honest, like, no, I haven’t put the time in…then you don’t deserve to win.” — Coy, [29:03]
• “If you’re really going to be serious at this, you better buy your own shit…you make your own investment to invest in yourself.” — Brandon, [21:48]
• “Competition builds excellence.” — Brandon, [40:12]

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Highlighted Takeaways & Actionable Tips

• Leadership Buy-In Matters: Both new teams cite leadership support as crucial for participation and growth.
• Community is Key: Building relationships—within teams and with other agencies—is as important as marksmanship and tactics.
• Gear & Preparation: Invest in competition-appropriate gear, especially optics, rifles, and support bags.
• Honest Self-Assessment: Be real about the work put in. You can’t expect elite results on minimal prep—commit to “train hard.”
• Year-Round Mindset: Make competition prep part of ongoing operational training, not a last-minute effort.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is both a practical guide for first-time competitors and a rallying cry to the SWAT community—focus on relationships, keep pushing standards, don’t be afraid to compete, and remember: “Competition builds excellence.” The open, brotherly tone underscores the supportive, no-ego approach that defines success in both the competition and in real-world SWAT operations.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign podcast. A podcast for SWAT officers, military, and all first responders.

[B]

We'll be talking training, tactics and leadership.

[A]

With the best subject matter experts around. Well, howdy, folks. Back again at the 2025 TTPOA SWAT competition. This is Saturday, the fourth day. This is our third podcast. I screwed up the first one, so that's why we're here with different numbers as far as not coinciding the days we're supposed to. But anyway, I'll never make that mistake again. At least I hope not. So, I got some new gentlemen in my room today, so that always sounds bad, but my goal was on this podcast to bring in new teams, and two of the guys are representing their team, representing the first time they've been down here and competing. So that's really cool. So, Tanner, let you start off. Tell me whatever you want to tell me about yourself, and then we'll move on to the next fellow.

[B]

Yeah, my name is Tanner. I'm Art, SWAT commander here for 40 PD. I've been on the team for a little over seven years. Started with TTPOA basic SWAT, TTPOA advanced SWAT, and then just tried seven.

[A]

Yes, that's right, man. That's the only region that really trains quality people. The rest regions just try to keep up. No, they're all good folks, man.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And we just try and latch on to any class we can get it, you know, either at Yalls Place or at our range. I know several agencies are using our range for different things, so we just try and get on with that, but, yeah, I think.

[A]

I think the TTPA hosting classes have gotten y' all busy.

[B]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[A]

There's. Sometimes they're like, hey, man, y' all shut. Don't let these people in here. No, that's all good. It's all good. So when you say commander, what's your rank?

[B]

So I'm a patrol lieutenant.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then we have dual duty, so patrol lieutenant and then also the commander of the team. I just recently took over as commander in December whenever I promoted. So Dustin Vandiver was our commander prior to that.

[A]

Okay. So operations do that and all that kind of stuff as well, or just more of the outside planning things like that for swat.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's. Everything okay? Yeah, it's sweet. As of right now, we have one commander and one team leader and 12 total operators.

[A]

Okay, cool. Well, kudos to you for being admin, basically. Sorry. Wearing gold and coming out here and humbling yourself to do this. I truly mean that.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

I know there's guys Are listening to this podcast like fuck yeah. Like I wish my guys would be out here. I know. Years ago, one of our captains, old school SWAT guy competed many times, Orlando ttpoa. Always been in good shape. Die hard SWAT dude and he was newly captain over us and we needed some guy, we needed an extra guy like hey man, you. Hell yeah. And he was down there. He was competing as a captain years ago at Harris County. So I always respect the guys that are. That are doing that stuff. So kudos to you too.

[B]

Appreciate it.

[A]

All right. Next to you, who we have over here, man?

[C]

Coy Wilson. I'm from Mesquite Police Department. Mosquito there for eight years, SWAT for six. A sniper for around four and a half.

[A]

All right, cool. And where'd you go to basic SWAT school.

[C]

So we had our own in house school and then that was the year that we didn't go to Yalls.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But the rest of our guys from. From ahead of me have.

[A]

So they.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

About me and stuff like that. I'm sure that guy, man, that guy's an.

[C]

No, they've all loved it.

[B]

It's been great.

[A]

Some. Some people not say. Some people don't find me charming and electrifying and dazzling and stuff like that. So that's. It's okay. Not for everyone. And I'm fine with that. So first time out as a competitor, your team's brought out. So Tanner start with you last year, you and someone else, I forget who it was. Came down and contacted me. He's like, hey, can we come down here and just watch to see what's going on. We're wanting to bring a team. We don't know what to expect. Yeah, come on, man. So what did you. What did you learn then and where. Where we are now of like putting all the pieces together.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, we came out and checked it out just to kind of see what it was about. Recognizing it was obviously really rule heavy. And you know, in training we obviously we try and this is from training with, you know, Dan Brocos and stuff like that, talking about, you know, basically training out on the range versus how we are on the streets. And so we typically try to train to a higher level. But just going out there back then last October, there's definitely people that are, you know, doing it big and you know, we need to step up our game. But again we. We were already going towards that way and so whenever we came back, Dustin Vander again was the commander at the time and we, you know, just continue with our shooting Capabilities. We weren't going to focus heavy on agility, knowing that it was something we needed to have. We just knew that we need to be making hits. And so we watched. We went down there for one day and we watched a couple of the events. I don't remember exactly which events they were. And then whenever we came back, you know, of course, life happens. And being a smaller agency, we've got a ton of things going on. So added people to the team, some people came off the team, stuff like that. And then, you know, we had. Had all these plans for, hey, we're going to do this, get ready. And then next thing you know, here we are, you know, it's over, so.

[A]

Oh, damn, it's here. Yeah, we gotta go now.

[B]

Yeah, and a lot of that's on me, you know, especially being the commander now, just, you know, getting everyone going. But we came together, I'd say, a few months ago, just kind of officially getting the people together and getting the. As far as staffing goes, just getting, hey, it went from, you know, who is our, you know, top tier, you know, you know, basically a tryout to.

[A]

Give me more tip, please on your microphone.

[B]

Basically a tryout to like, you know, hey, who's it? Who's able to go? And then all of my guys are more than qualified, obviously. I mean, they, they all want to be here, just like anyone swat, we're not doing it for the money, we're doing it because we enjoy it. And I've got a lot of good shooters and a lot of guys that are good in their own areas. So anyway, we, we got a team together and I ended up making a part of that team just, just strictly because of numbers. And I'd use it as an excuse because I want to be here, obviously. But anyway, we came out and just, I think all the competition is great. I mean, right now we're not ranking the best, but it's. We're taking this year as a learning curve. We've got a ton of things that we need to work on and a ton of things that we're going to take back as far as all the operations and briefs and stuff like that and be able to go back to our team and train.

[A]

Yeah, that, that's so important. So how did, obviously being a lieutenant, that helped, but the higher ups than you, how did they receive it? What was there, Was there any pushback or like, hey man, we, we support this and things like that as far.

[B]

As doing the competition. Yeah, no. So we're very fortunate. Our chief came From a SWAT background.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Honestly, so she's always been in support of the SWAT team and, you know, doing things where, you know, with gear, training hours, whatever it is to. To make us better. So I didn't get any pushback on that.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

It's been pretty good in that area.

[A]

That's awesome. Koi, what about you? How did y' all decide to. To come here? And it was one of those things. And we talked about this earlier. Yalls department. I know. I mean, y' all butt up to us, so there's been a lot of, like, where's mesquite at? Like, and it is not a shot at that at all. I tell teams like this all the time, and you can't be just solely just to yourself. And I'm not also saying that, hey, you see this team? Okay, we got to do it this way. And then the next team we got. I'm not saying that either, but there has to be some, like, community involved in that. So where did that all come from? And y' all are like, hey, let's go do this competition.

[C]

Honestly, I think it's just. It comes down to leadership changes. I really think it does. And, like, like, you said to you, you know, kudos to you for being a lieutenant and being out here. I think that's. I think it's very important for your leadership to be able to go to trainings, go to conferences to learn, like, hey, this is how other teams are doing it. Yeah, this is how we should be doing it, because that's the standard. We should strive to be like teams who are doing more than us, if we're being honest, whether it's operationally or in competition. So we just had some leadership changes, and we develop a mantra as a team just to be better every single day, every single time we come out and train, be better, because if that's not your goal, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. So younger leadership, being able to communicate that to older leadership. There's always politics involved in everything. Unfortunately, that's part of policing guys in the right places, where we're like. Like, hey. And we pushed for it. Like, we pushed for it. We pushed for it this year. And I don't know exactly how much I can't speak to the pushback as far as the guys who are team leaders or sergeants or lieutenants. When it went to, hey, we don't want to send guys to the competition, but ultimately, we got the green light, and we're like, okay, cool. And then we just started preparing.

[A]

Preparing. Good. So department, both of y'. All, did they pay for Yalls Way, or is it all on y'?

[C]

All?

[A]

Yeah, Vacation, training time, all that kind of stuff.

[C]

They paid for us?

[B]

Yes. Yeah, Same thing with us. We're completely funded by the department.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Good deal.

[A]

Good. That's important. How much training time did y' all get before this so allotted by the department? None. Oh, damn. So that's hard.

[C]

It's. It's all on us.

[A]

So, like.

[C]

Like Forney, you know, we work close with each other. We work operationally with each other.

[A]

I know you are sitting really close. I was kind of little close. Y' all were, but.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Whatever.

[B]

Yeah, we currently. We currently have an MOU right now.

[A]

So it sounds like I have more than that.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of their operations, you know, they invite us out and we bring our Bearcat and we'll run, like, either rear perimeter or just try and be of assistance in any way we can.

[A]

Good.

[C]

But we basically got told like, hey, you can train, you can put in for whether it gets comp time. It's all comp time. No overtime. Can't get paid for it, so. Of course not. So even though we're representing the department.

[A]

But it is so funny how much I have done just for comp time, just to make it easy on my life and not to rock the boat. Just. I'm like, I don't care. Like, I just. This is. Yeah. It's not about the money. Like.

[C]

Yeah. So it was like zero time given. We had to put it in after our. Our SWAT training. So we would do SWAT training during the day, whether it's 8 to 5, whatever the day holds. Sometimes we change our times for other guys. Schedules, whether detectives. Because we're all part time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's real hard navigating schedules. Like I told you before, we, you know, we got on the podcast guys in narcotics, guys in traffic units, guys in CID roles. So you're on call is. It's different. So having to navigate that. I mean, we probably shot together, and that's probably criticism on ourselves, honestly. But as far as the department, you know, we shot together three times before y' all came through at the entire.

[A]

Wow. That's. That's. That's a heavy lifting now to come out here and see. Yeah. The you're having to do. You're like, what? Yeah.

[C]

It's all just about like, hey, like, you know, we selected guys who obviously. Who are very good shooters.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And can move and shoot.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And physically like, they're the best judgment plays into it, decision making. So we selected the guys, put them in the right places, and that's how we kind of ended up with our team.

[A]

Yeah, and, and, and I don't whether. Whatever sport you watch, it's very rare that rookies can come in to a high level place and just knock it out of the park because there's so much of a learning curve. There's a huge learning curve. It's like asking a new guy to come on SWAT and go, hey man, let's make entry. You're like, okay, I'm not. Yeah, I'll try it and stuff. So what about y'?

[B]

All?

[A]

How much training time that y' all have and how'd that work route for y'? All?

[B]

So we have our standard, you know, training in general for every every other Wednesday, we're doing eight hours, so 16 hours a month. And then, Carter, I'd probably say how many trainings you think we had this couple months?

[A]

Hey, man, tip. Give me the tip. There you go.

[B]

We probably had, I don't know, between eight to 10 different days at various hours where we just kind of focused on again, this was somewhat makeshift, but doing somewhat of obstacles in between, you know, shooting, trying to induce some stress and raising the heart rate and just stuff down at the range and kind of just overall testing our limits, being down here now and going through stuff. There's other things that we can do for sure. But I mean, I'm still super stoked for our guys coming out, you know, and somewhat last minute for some of the guys that are, that are here. And just because I know that I really wanted us to compete after coming down last year, and I was like, hey, like, like we can do this. Like this. Let's. Let's do it. And I thought about, you know, there's, there's the conference, obviously, and we somewhat had to, I wouldn't say we had to make a decision between the two, but, you know, to be able to send a ton of guys to the conference and then plus do the competition and plus we have just like everyone else, other things to land in the budget. I mean, I thought that we would take a lot from this and we absolutely have. This is pretty intense.

[A]

Well, I will say it's a lot, like I said, it's a heavy lift.

[C]

To.

[A]

Go do something that you've never done before and then add five more guys that's never done it before and then have limited training time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So kudos to y' all and, and we'll get into the kind of lessons learned and, and things that, what you're going to take back. But also just to encourage you while I'm on the subject, because I'll forget is what we have done a really good job over the years. Our team is being able to beg, borrow and steal from people that we know, associations, people in our community asking for money and having them donate money. And our association really partnered with us all these years. You know, I always tell people, man, how many times have you seen you have your police association and they want fucking cupcakes bought in lieu of whatever. You're like, dude, really? So I mean, years ago when I got on the board of our deals, I'm like, hey, we're going to. This is what I propose we allocate. I think it's like $12,000 a year for officers that want to go to training. And it comes out of the association budget. And that money goes to TTPOA training or if you want to go to this detective school or whatever, training. So it's things like that that you just have to, if you want it bad enough. It's like everything. There's been no places we've ever trained in our city that our city said, hey, here's your brand new building that we built. It's always been us beg, barn and steel. So, man, if you need ideas, whatever, man, get with me, I'll give you as many things and y' all can come up with things as well, but you have to have some money to do this as well. Or, or buy things and equipment. We'll talk about equipment as well and stuff. So you have the right mindset and keep it up. Because what you're going to do is you're going to, you're going to change the culture of your team and that's what you want. You want to leave a legacy, that's going to change it in the positive. And I'm not saying this because I'm on the ttpa, you know, region and this is. I don't care what competition you go to, you never come to this one. You go to wherever, just do stuff and change the culture of your team and that's what you're doing. So kudos to y'. All. So coy. What, what are some things? Let's start with equipment that you're like, oh, this is really nice to have. Oh, shit, look at that, dude. Yeah, especially from the sniping side.

[C]

I mean, just from the sniping side. I think our biggest takeaway is bags yeah, bags. Stability, some, you know, some unstable platforms or, you know, like I said, you know, our team, we got four brand new accuracy internationals. They're all multi cal guns. So we can do barrel swaps to.338 Lapua. But now looking at all these other teams, that's what I bought. I've got a 22 inch gun with a 9 inch suppressor on the end of it. And then they're like, oh, hey, you're going to shoot this unsupported today?

[A]

Yeah, it's heavy.

[C]

And I was like, oh man.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So bags and I think just having a gun that is honed for this, it's lightweight, you're running with it, you're jumping over obstacles, you're having to crawl on the ground, you're having a fast rope. I heard they repelled in the past. So like having. Having guns that are applicable to a competition is. Is very, very, very important. LPVOs. LPVO's. I have my own personal LPVO. So is my team leader and so is one of our other, you know, but two of our guys don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So, you know, I brought mine. So we've kind of. That kind of worked out in our favor where it's like, hey, you want to use my gun here, use it. And it works out because, you know, they're taking other shots that, you know, you got to be precise. You want to hit it like a red dot, like, yeah, it's great. But it's for entry work. It's not for some of the stuff that we're doing on here. And then I'll tell you, like, we did a good job of it ourselves. But just support. Yeah, I think supports and that may be another topic, but really it's not because I see other guys and they have like, you know, whether it's somebody taking photos or, you know, it's somebody like running their, you know, a coach running their errands for them or like, hey, we forgot this, like go to go, go grab it for us real quick, last minute or something like that. I think support is an important piece of equipment to have because if you don't and it's just like you guys, you're fending for yourselves. Yeah, it's good for like team bonding, but also it makes things a whole lot more stressful. It's like, hey, does everybody have their shit?

[A]

No. No, you're. You're right. And it's funny that you say that because it goes back to a team and it's like anything else. Hey man, everybody has A spot on the SWAT team, whatever it is. And, and. And that is a crucial, crucial deal because you're right. That guy has to have a. He needs to have a bag with tape, ammo, mags, all the essential stuff that. What if we get to this and shit, someone forgot it or it breaks some like, batteries, like all this little stuff. Because you never know. You need to be serving the team. Hey, when are we up? Hey, we're coming back. Hey, we got five more guys. We need to start getting ready because the guys need to chill out, they need to relax, they need to be thinking about the event. They need to know the event. And that is a. I'm glad you said that because that's a huge deal. So guys that are thinking about coming back, coming down next year or coming back, you need to have that because that is so important. Like, you're just as important as the guy shooting, because it is a. So I'm glad you said that. Tanner, what about you, man, as far as equipment and things like that?

[B]

Yeah, same thing. Magnification's a big one. We knew it was allowed. Didn't. Based on our training, we felt pretty capable. But going through and when you're looking at these little still targets, one or two people have it. But yeah, I mean, right now, just running, you know, Trijicon mros, just, you know, just a basic dot like you said, you know, for entry, it's. It's great. But something like this where. And we're. We're really. I mean, day four, really getting the concept of you cannot run your misses and, you know, moving slow and. And getting good shots. And I'm. I'm seeing people using bags for, you know, what we would consider more basic shot. I'm like, oh, that's. That's smart. Like taking the extra time. So probably, yeah, we're. Next year when we come back, we're going to be coming back with a different outfit. Whether it's personal or, you know, something that the department purchase purchases, which we've been very fortunate to be able to buy good gear, you know, test stuff out, see what people are running and get it. But yeah, I mean, like he said, coming down with an extra person. We came down here with six. I've got two that have some really good injuries right now. One that's maybe rolling with a broken ankle. We're not sure, but we may be carrying him tomorrow. Tomorrow. But he's fighting through it. He's doing a good job.

[A]

You're gonna get him good tape job. That deal. I've been doing that every. Every day is getting my ankle tape.

[B]

Yeah. As far as. Yeah. Having. I think whenever we're looking at the makeup of the team, what me and Carter talked about, which Carter is our. Our team leader. He's also their head sniper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, he's out on an injury. So I took over Sniper. Man, I've never.

[A]

Before y' all went, yeah.

[B]

I've never touched that gun until.

[A]

Hey, he's pretty good.

[B]

Until yesterday, man. I've had some really good hits.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I've also had some misses. And I think that next year we may come down with basically two. Both of our snipers. So that in case. Yeah. In case that happens, we can do some switching out again. Everyone's got their strengths and we'll. We'll probably do that. But yeah, we'll probably bring that extra person just so that they can one bring a wagon. We didn't do that this year. That'd be nice. And have. Have all our extra stuff there.

[A]

Little lurk or something like that.

[B]

Yeah. And have a little checklist to go off of for. For everyone having stuff. But that's just some of the smaller stuff. It's. It's still good.

[A]

We were very fortunate last year. We had. We actually had one of our snipers who's full time sniper this year. We don't have that. It's. It's. And I say that with all due respect as far as he's an assault guy who's. Who can run the gun very well, is doing very well. But last year, man, they have. They had three guys on the team that all could run sniper. That was so nice to watch them because I didn't compete last year. I was like, damn, that's so. And they were flipping them out just because, hey, this is more physical. So this guy's a better shape. Let him shoot this. And then. And it was. It's. It works out well. And I think if you look at these other teams that are really high up all the time, they'll tell you the same thing. They have two guys that can both run the bolt gun and. And do very well with that. Yeah. Going back to the lpvo. So in my older days, obviously. And that wasn't a thing. It was red dots. And then when red dots on pistols started being popular. We're in Waco and I had the very first one on our team and. And ran it. And then it started growing and growing and now like, I don't see anybody out here shooting irons.

[B]

No.

[A]

I didn't either at all. And it's funny, so the last time I competed it was still red dots, a few guys. I don't, I don't think I'd have to go back and share. I can't remember if it wasn't even the rules yet that you could have lppo. And then they added it and then I realized this year that they have it one by ten. I'm like, damn, one by six. That's whatever. And I just, I've had one for. I just have never shot it. So I thought, okay, if I'm gonna compete this year. So I put it on a few months and I started shooting. I was like, okay, this is pretty nice. Yeah, it's as far as. Can I still shoot my. Hell yeah, I can. But that other. Just dialing a little bit on. Oh, here's this. And especially for identification, I'm like, okay, here's these. So yeah, that now like how it's changed from there, that is so important. And I always tell our guys, if you're really going to be serious at this competing, you better buy your own shit, you better have your own pistol, you better have your own rifle and you better have some own personal stuff. You make the own, your own investment to invest in yourself because there you're going to. You better put in the work for it. Like if you're just shooting a stock Glock, hey, good for you. But you better be putting in the time to be very efficient with that gun or whatever the case may be your rifle. And the thing too is, man, we have all our shit on our, on our SWAT rifles, our work rifles. You don't know that shit here. So when you're training and then you come down here, you got to take it all off and everything. I'm like, man, I want my own rifle, I want my own gun. And then I have a backup gun here and all that kind of stuff. So that is very, very important. Invest in yourself. You have to do that. So what are you going to take back? Tanner and Yalls team when I say you but just your team to go. Hey, what are some like big lessons as far as just making this? Because this is about being operational spot some things that you can go back. How are we going to take this and make it applicable to operations and training to do that kind of stuff?

[B]

For sure. I think a lot of it's just overall training, drive, bringing. And I think we all especially nowadays are do a lot better as far as SWAT in general for competing with each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Just bringing that back to the team and setting it more up, like competition style, so that we're always pushing each other. We've. We've done that for a while, but just bringing everything we're learning from here and probably adding more rules to it because whenever you start inducing stress and then having all those technicalities in there that it's making you process, which is going to make us better operators. I mean, on the street, things change. We don't always get the breath, you know, five o' clock the day before.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know, we've got to make decisions and I think it's going to make everyone better being able to do that. So, yeah, that, like I said, gear, that's going to be more on my end. Just trying to get everything to where all the guys are equipped for whatever we may need. Agility, we're going to look at. We do one project a year, typically at the range, and we're probably going to look at going the course route. We've got the room, so we're going to start scouting out different places and seeing what we can do in our range.

[A]

I got a shit ton of land out there.

[B]

Yeah. We've got 50 to 60 acres roughly, that we can play with, so we just got to make it happen. So we're gonna. We're gonna try and do that and.

[A]

A lot to play with, don't you?

[B]

Sure do. Let me know if you ever want to help.

[A]

I played on your property before.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Every now and then we get some good rain and it ends up being.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, it never fails. I'll have a class out with y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

And then monsoon season. Oh, yeah. And that one time, I'm like, okay, here's where I have to shoot this deal. He's like, what? I'm like, yeah, we're gonna shoot this way. And. And it was crazy, man.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But we do appreciate y' all letting us use, because we use it like three or four times, I think, training for the competition. So, yeah, we do. We do really appreciate that and stuff like that because that, that helps out for us as, as well. And, and, and we. We talked about this too, is like, I mean, there's times, if it's a training day for the competition, it helps all of us being out there because you can set up events and run them. And to me, holding the key to the kingdom in this kind of stuff doesn't really get you anything. Like, if. If I'm scared that you're going to take something away from Me, then maybe I need to work a little harder. Because, like, I was talking with Sal today, and they had that train up class down here, him and a few other guys on their team. Everybody knows how well San Antonio does, but those are some of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. And guess what? They're giving it back to going, hey, man, you want to beat us, we'll give you the tricks. But guess what? It still comes down to your ass putting in the work. Because if you don't put in the work, you ain't beating those dudes. So it's things like that that you have to reach out. I mean, we. We reached out to Plano. We had to use their O course because our course is nothing like anything like that. So we had the ranger rope. We're like, we know this is going to be here. Let's go over there. They have one, we don't. So you have to do that, man. You have to ask and build relationships so that. That's part of the thing, too, and stuff. So coy, what do you think y' all can take back for operations and things like that?

[C]

There's a lot. I mean, you touched on it right there at the end. Relationships.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think relationships are probably the most important thing that we can do. Developing a relationship with y', all, whether it's you or Forney or Kenny or whoever, whoever is consistently coming to these competitions and they have experience. Pick the brains of the people who know what they're doing. I think that's having. Having humility in this job is very, very tough for a lot of people. And if you're on swat, you should be the most humble guy at your department.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because you should understand that every. Like, things are ever changing, and there's always something to learn. So being able to be one of those people that's like, well, hey, you know, they did this well, or they have this. Let's. Let's reach out. You know, we're good at shooting the shit with, you know, criminals. Like, why can't we talk to each other? Why can't we talk to other departments? And then I think physical fitness is something just personally for me, I've tried to have the support of other team leaders and implementing new tests for everybody to get them to a point where, you know, physical fitness, you know, used to be like, oh, you have your outliers. Like, this guy's extremely physical fit. And, you know, especially at police departments, I think it's becoming more of a norm for having people that are like, hey, most of these guys are really in shape. And changing that dynamic on a team and having, you know, whether it's competitive events or, you know, we'll have a change up in our standards is important because we want guys to be healthy. We want them to be in shape. You know, the risk of injury, you know, coming out here to the competition, like having guys twist their ankles or their knees or something like that. When you implement that throughout the year, you're bettering your chances not only at the competition, but operationally as well. Like, things just happen. And guys in their roles of, you know, patrol or CID or whatever it may be, it's a risky career. I mean, we're putting our. Putting our lives on the line or our bodies on the line every single day. So being physically fit is one of those things that you could just check that box that. That's great. And then, yeah, just time on gun. Time on guns. Important. And it's hard part time especially, but being very aware of yourself, like, you know, have I. Can I truly say that I prepared and I'll just call myself out 100%. I think a lot of our guys would, too, just, like, have you put the time into being. Being the best?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's like, no, like, we just haven't. And if you can't say to yourself, like, and be honest, like, no, I haven't put the time in. So, like, you don't deserve to win. Like, you don't deserve to top 10. Top. Top 15. Now when you put the work in. Yeah, maybe we can have a conversation. But until you put the time in and you commit, like you said, to buying your own gear, you know, I mean, there's that literally thousands of dollars to be spent on, and you're thinking, you say thousands of dollars to cost, and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. So, you know, committing thousands of dollars to gear to come to this competition, it's very important. So especially when you. When you don't have. And this is nothing against my department, it's just the reality of there's no budget for you. If you want something, you go get it yourself.

[A]

You're exactly right. I mean, you know, talking about. For lessons learned for us, I mean, we were already toying with the idea of changing our duty ammo, and we're definitely. We've had three problems with our duty ammo not firing, and then one with my rifle today that cost us three minutes because my rifle wouldn't work anymore. Yeah. Because three targets were left or not three Minutes, I guess a minute and a half.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But then I was like, hey, man, give me your rifle. It's like, what? Give me a rifle. I still got. I still got some shooting. I got ammo left and stuff. But, I mean, those are. Those are important things because for us, it's not just about us. It's our whole department that uses this ammo. And so those are some stuff that, you know, and. And from what I understand there, they were already in the process of aware of that, but, like, we're very aware of it now because you're like, damn. And. And along the years, we've. We've learned some stuff for operations and things like that. Like, I look at now like, this year was the first year that we've used bags. And, man, those things are so light. And I'm like, on any call out. That's one of my things. Like, if you're over a car, you're having to sit on a shield and on whatever. Like, I'm propping that bag on top of that thing because that is a stable platform.

[B]

Yeah, that's something new for me. I haven't seen a whole lot of, like, we're up at the competition. I've seen a lot of people having bags strapped to their arms and all that. Yeah, that's kind of new for me.

[A]

And they are lightweight. I mean, they are. So I think it was Armageddon. Armageddon, yeah.

[C]

Yeah. But they ain't cheap.

[A]

No, no. And that. And that's one of those deals where we went out and, you know, talked.

[C]

With people and 200 bucks a pop.

[A]

Yeah. People were very fortunate to think we were cool people and give us some money and association. Chipped in a lot and things like that. So, you know, it goes back down to. If you want to, you're going to. You're going to do it. You're exactly right. Hey, man, I can't complain at the end of the day if I didn't get the place that I want, because maybe I look back, maybe I didn't. And then there's. Sometimes you're like, man, just bad luck or whatever, but if you can look at yourself, hey, man, I put in, I did the best I can. Then, hey, kudos to you. Take what you learned. Like I tell my guys, hey, man, yesterday was good. Take the good, use that as confidence. Take the bad, use that as a learning experience. Get better from that. But today is a new day. Like, it is what it is. You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes. And so I know y' all are not in the, in the place that y' all wanted to be, and I get that and I understand that. But also give yourself some grace in the fact of all the things we've talked about.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, it just, it is what it is. Like there's a, it's a heavy lift. Change your culture, come back because there's other teams, guess what place they're in. Fucking way blow. Way, way below you because they're not even here. Whether that's because their administration won't let them, okay, come on your own or they don't want to. And it's, hey, I'm talking shit to you, but come, come compete.

[B]

I will say there's a little, you know, thinking of it never being here before, first time out, you know, wondering, hey, like, you know, if we don't perform the way we'd like to, you know, like, kind of are we going to look, be looked down upon or anything like that. And everyone's been like top teams, everyone's supporting everybody. The camaraderie is there, the supports there. I mean, it's, it's been great.

[A]

Yeah, no, it has been and it's good. There's. We cheer guys on. Like, we have a great rapport with Irving, so there's times where we were about to see them run. So we'll go up there and especially the Okor stuff, man, like, hey, let's go. We'll run with y' all or we'll cheer you on. I mean, it's been a long term tradition with those guys. They're like brothers to us and we talk shit to them, they talk shit to us. We go out, so. And that's what it's about at the end of the day, because guess what? We've run real ops with those guys. We run routes with Dallas and other teams. So that's what it's about.

[C]

Yeah, I think, I think when you have departments, especially when you, sir. Like you're surrounded by each other like Garland, Irving, Dallas, Forney, Ski, I think at the end of the day, like, every department's going to have their, that they're going to have to deal with when it comes to administration only, you're going to have your stuff and your baggage that you're going to have to deal with. But, you know, something that I haven't seen, and this is not a criticism on anybody just because. I don't know. Yeah, but is that, hey, let's play well with these guys. Like, let's, let's Operate. Let's talk to them. Let's have a good relationship with them. Because at the end of the day, if you have a relationship with teams around you and you're able to build and improve, I think it makes. I think it makes it all worth it.

[A]

Oh, it is. I mean, I always tell people the first day of SWAT school, man, there's 60, 70 dudes in this class. Like, one of your missions is. Is to network with these people because you never know when you're going to need somebody in Brownsville, Texas.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, man, we just got a murder suspect hit and he's down in Brownsville. Okay. Oh, damn. I know this guy from SWAT school. Let me call him up, see what it. I don't say that because it's. I'm just making bullshit up. It's happened to us all over, all the time, and it happens to us, and that's what it's about. Or I mean, on the ttpoa, I've seen, hey, we need a rook, and Houston is bringing a rook five hours away because. What is that noise? That my wife talking or something? I don't know what's going on there, but I've seen that happen before. And it's really. And you're right. I mean. I mean, when we got called out to the Dallas protest, man, it's. Oh, yeah, we have relationships with those. And they're all of a sudden, bam, bam. All of a sudden all these teams are coming in there to help them, and you just never know. I mean, we butt up to y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

I mean, we share a highway with y'. All. So you have to that. And I challenge all because especially you being one of the younger guys on the team, change that culture. Push out, get, get. Know everybody in the community. Absolutely. And. And you do that by going to classes. Hey, man, I went to this shooting class at ttpoa and dude met these two dudes, and one's from here, one's from here. Really good guys and whatever. I mean, there's a. There's a new friend I have that I can connect with. Yeah.

[C]

And I'll give our department this. You know, as far as, like, our. Our swatch in command. You know, we've done a pretty good job of sending guys to classes this year, and we're gonna, you know, they're gonna continue to do that. I'm going to, you know, CKP class instructor class in November. Which one? Oh, gosh, you would put me on the spot like that.

[A]

I. I forgot. Where's it at?

[C]

I Think it's. Is it in Garland?

[A]

Oh, you're doing the lead faucet. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I believe we have one going to that as well.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So we have. I'll help Dan. Yeah, that one.

[C]

We have four or five guys.

[A]

That's right. I'm sorry. Yeah. I do remember all y'. All. Yeah. I'll be teaching. Helping Dan teach that class.

[C]

So we'll be in that. And that's. That's new. That's new stuff for us. And, you know, like, that's. That's a new thing for us. But, like, that's thing, like, when you're talking about leadership, that's good people in the right places. Like, it's like, hey, guys. All right, let's test this and some of our own. Testing our own training. It's like, this does not work.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All right. Let's think about what we're doing. Yeah. And then we test it and we're like. And some of the. And to give the older guys kudos. It's like, they're right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, they're right. It doesn't work. Like, this Knowledge is very, very, very important. So, you know, we're blessed to be able to get to that, go to that class. I'm excited for it.

[A]

It's gonna be great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's one of those things where Region seven is the smallest region in the. The Texas ttpoa. Yeah.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

It's the fourth day.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, competing and doing podcasts, man. Why was I idiot to say y' all do this? But it's because we have so many departments in that small little region. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a ton. And I bring in a lot of trainers throughout the year, so the trainings there. I don't say that because of me is just. There's no excuse. Like, yeah, I serve y', all, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of that. And like, I said, the conference and go to the conference and build on that and things like that, so. Well, I appreciate y' all taking your time out of your day. I know it's been a long time, however many days we're on right now, beat up, banged up and stuff. But I do want to see y' all back next year, whether it's you or your whole team, but I want. I want to see that for Yalls team. Yo. It to your team to make it. To make it better. And I think. I think you are on the right path. Yeah. Don't call me sir, man.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I'm just Brandon, man, I'm just an idiot and stuff. So. Anything else, man? Y' all want to give some wisdom to newer teams or teams that are thinking about coming out next year and things like that?

[B]

No. I mean, I think I was kind of shocked seeing 40 teams.

[A]

Is that most we've ever had?

[B]

Okay. Is there ever going to be a cap on how many teams can compete?

[A]

That I do not know. That's a. That's above my level.

[B]

Yeah. I just, I just wonder whether being.

[A]

That many, I would say for. I would. I'm not, don't quote this, but we do a very good job of trying to accommodate.

[B]

No, for sure.

[A]

So I don't see that unless it was just after the cutoff and there's five teams like, hey, man, you know, And I think there's a cutoff date. I'm not even sure. I don't pay attention to that, but. And I think if you listen to yesterday's podcast that's out now, you're going to start seeing some new things. So next year you come, you're like, well, shit, man, we got to train for this now. And it should be that way. It should be that way and stuff. And I will leave you with this. Like start training for the competition when you get back on your own. Yep. And you'll be fine. Like, you can't go up competitions two months away. Let's start training. Like it's, it's a year round thing because you're training for operations, you're training for your real job. This is just a bonus. And if you're doing it that way and you're training the right way, this is easy. This is the shooting part should be not the problem.

[C]

Yeah, I think, I think that's just it.

[A]

Prepare.

[C]

Prepare for everything. Just like the job, like you said, you know, your sleep, your, your how, your eating habits, your training habits. Just prepare those like immediately.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I've had, man, Especially now competing at 50, like, oh my gosh. Like I'm. I got every rap, you know, And I'm beat up. Yeah, I'm like, damn, I'm going to that IV thing. I'm getting my ankle wrapped. Excuse me. I'm getting all kinds of stuff, but I'm still out there and I'm still able to go. So it is what it is. So, man, I appreciate y' all taking the time of ending then. I think this is probably, yeah, this will be the last one because I'm not staying Sunday and no one's going to be wanting to. To do that. So if you're thinking about coming, you better come. If you don't come, then you know what I think about you. No, no, Nothing personal. Nothing personal at all.

[B]

So.

[A]

All right. Until the next one. Y' all train hard, man. And what was it? What I think is excellence or competition builds excellence. I think I saw that coin in this year, so I like that. So, all right. See y', all, folks.