Iron Sights podcast host Scott Howell " You guys are gonna need a bigger boat"

Summary

The TTPOA Podcast – Episode Summary: "Iron Sights Podcast Host Scott Howell 'You Guys Are Gonna Need a Bigger Boat'"

Release Date: March 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The TTPOA Podcast, hosts Derek and Brandon welcome special guest Scott Howell from the Iron Sights Podcast. The conversation delves deep into the intersections of fitness, firearm training, and the broader challenges faced by first responders and community members alike.

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Guest Introduction

[00:27] Scott Howell: "Well, howdy, howdy, howdy, y'all. Welcome to another edition of the TTPOA podcast."

Scott Howell introduces himself and acknowledges the longstanding relationship with the hosts, setting a friendly and collaborative tone for the episode.

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Derek's Journey into Personal Training

[02:21] Derek: "I own a fitness facility or gym. It's all personal training, like personalized services for members... that's been my career for almost 30 years now."

Derek shares his transition from a sports enthusiast in his youth to a seasoned personal trainer. His passion for fitness stemmed from a desire to stay out of trouble and evolved through pivotal experiences, including hiring an IFBB pro to guide him, which ultimately led to his successful career in the fitness industry.

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Podcast Inspiration and Pivot During Lockdowns

[10:23] Derek: "When the events with the lockdowns happened, the businesses that were hit the hardest were gyms and salons."

Amidst the COVID-19 lockdowns, Derek's gym in San Jose faced significant challenges, prompting him to pivot towards online training. This shift not only helped sustain his business but also inspired him to start the Iron Sights Podcast as a medium to share valuable information with his community.

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Facing Civil Unrest and Personal Safety

[12:06] Derek: "I was sitting there on the couch with my daughters and my partner in life and partner in business... I went down to the gym and just kind of sat there and wanted to be a presence and just be a deterrent."

During the civil unrest following events like George Floyd's death, Derek found himself directly witnessing chaos near his business. This experience underscored his realization of the importance of personal safety and preparedness, leading him to invest in firearms training and self-reliance measures.

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Bridging Fitness and Firearm Training Industries

[16:21] Scott Howell: "Cause having that background."

Derek discusses the surprising parallels between the fitness and firearm training industries, noting that both require dedication, structured training, and community building. His journey revealed the need for high-quality, individualized training programs that cater to specific needs, much like athletic training for different sports positions.

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Networking and Community Building at TTPOA Conference

[38:29] Derek: "You guys are going to need a bigger boat."

At the TTPOA conference, Derek emphasizes the value of networking and the seamless integration of diverse disciplines within the law enforcement and fitness communities. He highlights how the conference facilitates meaningful connections, fostering collaborations that enhance training and operational effectiveness.

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Future Collaborations and Expanding Training Programs

[53:08] Scott Howell: "We get that part. They continue to do it."

The hosts express enthusiasm about potential collaborations, such as Derek joining SWAT competitions and integrating fitness with tactical training programs. Scott Howell invites Derek to contribute to their training initiatives, recognizing the mutual benefits of blending their expertise.

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Promoting Community Engagement and Personal Initiatives

[70:43] Scott Howell: "This is training for us that we put out where we don't care about."

Derek promotes his Red Dot Fitness facility and the Iron Sights Podcast, encouraging listeners to engage with his content for comprehensive training insights. He underscores the importance of bridging gaps between civilian and law enforcement training, advocating for a holistic approach to personal and community safety.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt appreciation and mutual respect among the hosts and Derek. Emphasizing the shared goal of enhancing training and preparedness, they underscore the importance of community, continuous learning, and collaboration in fostering safer environments for all.

[73:39] Scott Howell: "Train hard, stay safe."

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Notable Quotes

• Scott Howell [00:27]: "Welcome to another edition of the TTPOA podcast."
• Derek [02:21]: "I own a fitness facility or gym. It's all personal training, like personalized services for members..."
• Derek [12:06]: "I went down to the gym and just kind of sat there and wanted to be a presence and just be a deterrent."
• Scott Howell [16:21]: "Cause having that background."
• Scott Howell [53:08]: "We get that part. They continue to do it."
• Scott Howell [70:43]: "This is training for us that we put out where we don't care about."
• Scott Howell [73:39]: "Train hard, stay safe."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a testament to the power of adaptability and the importance of integrating diverse skill sets to address real-world challenges. Derek's narrative not only provides inspiration but also practical insights for both first responders and civilians seeking to enhance their preparedness and resilience.

Transcript

[Derek]

Foreign. Welcome to the TTPOA Podcast, a podcast for SWAT officers, military and all first responders.

[Brandon]

We'll be talking training tactics and leadership.

[Derek]

With the best subject matter experts around. Here are your hosts, Derek and Brandon.

[Scott Howell]

Well, howdy, howdy, howdy, y'all. Welcome to another edition of the TTPOA podcast. This is season four, episode seven, right, Graham?

[Brandon]

Yes, sir.

[Scott Howell]

That's. That's what I have.

[Brandon]

But you're good.

[Scott Howell]

You're correct. Are not great. So, man, how you been? It's been a while since I've seen you.

[Brandon]

Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm a veteran now. I went from rookie status to veteran.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, you're.

[Brandon]

You're a couple of days.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, you're already good enough where you can. Like, I'm going to skip by on the last podcast. I'll just do what I want to do. I love it. You just walk around.

[Brandon]

I was here.

[Scott Howell]

I was just, hey, Sean, you're going to be my new host for the day.

[Brandon]

I brought in the SME.

[Scott Howell]

And that was a smart move, man.

[Brandon]

Yes, I agree.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, that was, that was very smart because there was questions he was talking about. I don't know what you're talking about or saying.

[Brandon]

So agree. I know. A man's got to know his limitations.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. And we probably just brought on another guest. We're going to be like, I don't even know what he's talking about because he looks way smarter than us.

[Brandon]

So that's not hard.

[Scott Howell]

But.

[Brandon]

But no, I'm glad that he's here. So kind of excited about this. Yeah. So I think it's important.

[Scott Howell]

Like, I think we in the. In the. And we keep talking about this a lot as far as, hey, we get stuck in the. The. In the le world, the tactical world. I think it's great to be able to reach out in different, just communities that are not just. Ellie.

[Derek]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Howell]

And that's what. And that's what we're doing with this next guest. So we have Scott Howell with iron sights. You're not a. Not a cop, not a military guy. Just a regular dude who's an entrepreneurial business guy in the fitness industry, I guess. Or is that not right? Fitness industry. Well, Jim, I don't know what to say, man. That's not my.

[Derek]

If we had to put labels on it, I'm just a dirty civilian.

[Scott Howell]

I like it. I like it.

[Brandon]

Well, I will say that walking around the trade show there, you look like you fit right in. So you either look like a military or you look like a cop. And that's not a bad thing.

[Derek]

I love Cops. I've gotten that before.

[Brandon]

I bet you do.

[Derek]

Funny. Yeah, it's funny. No. Yeah. Yes. I own a. I own a fitness facility or gym. It's all personal training, like personalized services for remembers. We do some group training and stuff too. But that's, that's been my, that's been my career for almost 30 years now for that. Yeah, that's, that's what puts food on the table.

[Scott Howell]

What got you into that?

[Derek]

You know, I think like a lot of people, like, you know, a lot of kids, like I was into sports as a kid. It kept me out of trouble and. Yeah. And then there was a little bit of a journey into college after that. And then that ends, you know, and then, you know, the weight room was a thing, you know, always. And it was something I really enjoyed and literally loved doing. And now I didn't really have anything to lift weights for. So then I think like a lot of people goes, like, what could I do? Yeah, you know, I thought try to get in the bodybuilding thing for a minute and realize like, this is not a good place to be. But while doing that, I, you know, like, I had the work outside kind of figured out, but the nutrition side, I didn't. And I wanted to compete and I knew I needed to learn some things. I kind of just consumed everything I could at the time. And this was sort of pre Internet and it was, it was just barely kind of alive. And so I hired a coach. And that coach happened to be a IFBB pro who owned the gym. And I was just a starving student bouncing at the local nightclub and doing the, doing the thing. And, and she's like, you know, this costs money. I go, I know. And I don't have a lot of it, so I can come. This is how much money I have. And she said, okay, here's the deal. You're going to meet with me. Because she goes, you're gonna write me that check. But then, but yeah, but the deal is you gotta meet me here and be my training partner four days a week, you know, and I start training at 4:30 in the morning and show me where to sign, you know, I was like, okay, fine, whatever. I was kind of that dude. Anyway, so shutting the, shutting the nightclub down at 2am and then coming in. Yeah. So I, So anyhow, I'd been doing that for a while with her and she's like, you know, you're pretty good at this. You know, you might consider. Did you ever considered, you Know, maybe being a personal trainer, that had never crossed my mind. She gave me a shot, gave me an opportunity, and the rest is history. So I just, I started doing that, and I loved it. And I also started, I also recognized that there could be, you know, there's a career path here if you handle yourself right.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And it's not necessarily through college, which is what I was doing at that time. So I went all in and just tried to. And I've had a really good run. Had a really good run. Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Good. I love stories like that where you're, you're where you got because of hard work and luck and networking and meeting the right people and them setting you up and, and helping, you know, guide you in that path. But at the end of the day, it comes down to your work. And I love stories like that because I think in our industry, sometimes you get a job, okay, cool. And then you can just do nothing and be fine. You still get money and stuff. But then there's other guys who, who put the onus on them to go, hey, I want to be better. I want to better myself. I want to better my department, my community, my team, and things like that. So I always respect that kind of stuff. So it's cool that, like you said.

[Brandon]

You'Re doing what you want to do also, you know, and you get a lot of cops like that. They were like. Or guys that come from an industry where they went to school for four years or even longer, and they were like, yeah, I have a, you know, I was a chemist. But they're like, man, I just, I was miserable, right? And then my cousin was a cop, and I rode out with them. I'm like, this is awesome, right? And you get here and you're like, so it's really cool that, you know, people can, you know, find what they want to do in life that makes them happy in it and they make money on it. Or like, you, you were able to, you know, jump into that without, you know, spending all that money on college.

[Derek]

That's really cool. That's exactly what happened. And I think I have an interesting perspective to something. You just said that right there and that I got it at a young one of those things. I mean, you mentioned a little bit of luck. There was definitely a lot of luck because, you know, I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is kind of thing, you know, I know what love is. I, I, after doing that, you spend time with people that are at that stage in life, you know, even as a Young guy. I was spending time with people that were literally miserable, making all kinds of money, had all kinds of stuff, houses, toys, vacations, you know, all that kind of stuff. But they weren't happy. And, you know, I just considered myself so fortunate. I wasn't making a lot of money, but I wasn't miserable and I didn't want to be miserable. And part of the luck part was, is I wound up getting a job with a really large company. You guys might remember Bally Total Fitness? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I had a 10 year old.

[Brandon]

We're old, so.

[Derek]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brandon]

Valleys was huge, right?

[Derek]

Yeah, I know. Actually it put me ultimately that, you know, it started with the club, then it was five clubs, then it was 40 clubs and it was 140 clubs. And it ended up putting me down here. And I had the whole southeastern seaboard for a while from the personal training side of things. And I was in Texas a lot. Wow. Yeah, mostly Dallas, Houston and San Antonio area, but all around, so there were clubs everywhere. I think there were like 25 or 30 clubs in the state, so.

[Scott Howell]

Leotard dates.

[Derek]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were old clubs.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

The clubs that were here, like, they were a mess. But to that, to that point, like I got a master's degree like in, if you will, and sort of like commercial health club management and organizational leadership. And it was all on somebody else's dimension, you know, it was like, it was like a scholarship sort of, in a sense. And it put me in a position to be successful, I think, in a lot of ways. But to that point is like, people go through life, they make a decision about what it is that they're going to do and they find themselves miserable, man. That's a lot of what I came in contact with as a coach. So it's interesting to be here sitting with guys that made a commitment to something and loved it. Right. Particularly now. Like, I talk to people, cops, and you know, they're taking the new, the newer cop through and, and the one guy said to me, so you'd be surprised how many. It would floor you, how many, how many of these younger folks coming through and they're like, yeah, I'm just trying this out to see if I like it or not.

[Scott Howell]

No, it's a different mindset now with guys.

[Derek]

It's the same in, in a lot of things because I see that even in the fitness industry, like, people like, yeah, I think I want to be a coach, man. When I did this, when I went in, I was like, dude, this is What I'm doing.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

So show me the way. Right. You know, and all the way through, it's a different mindset. So I know there's. I think.

[Scott Howell]

I didn't know there was another choice once I got hired on. I thought it was like, this is blood in, blood out. You know, 26 years later, I'm still here. Graham. 30 something years as well. Because there is. And I understand. Like, there's part of me now that having more wisdom and stuff and understands, you know what. No matter what it is. No. Or law enforcement or, you know, some big corporation, most of the time you're still just a number to somebody. So I understand the. Hey, the loyalty aspect of man. The company's not loyal to me or department's not loyal to me. I'm just a number. I understand that aspect of it, but that's just still not the core of who I am. I'm like, hey, I made a commitment. This is what I'm doing. For better, for worse. Unless it just gets, you know, obviously just crazy something. But this is my team, right? And I can. About my team. It's kind of like your family. Hey, you know, don't say anything else about my family or my team. I can, but, you know, at the end of the day, so.

[Derek]

Yep.

[Brandon]

Cool. And so people on the. That are listening, they're probably gonna go, okay, so they've got this personal trainer on, and he's got this background. So let's start going forward and progressing to how you ended up not just.

[Scott Howell]

Here at the Curls in a second.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Brandon]

We're not how you're here, but tell a story. We're talking about, you know, before we jumped on the air there, because I think that I found that pretty. Pretty fascinating.

[Derek]

Yeah. Sometimes I have to pinch myself that, like, how did I get at this table today? And like, a lot of people, like, downstairs, like, so, what are you doing here? So. Yeah, so the way I kind of landed into this thing was I. I think we mentioned I'm from California. I've got a gym in a major metropolitan city there, San Jose. It's what? Big bay area, you know, metropolitan area. When the events with the. The lockdowns happened, the. The businesses that were hit the hardest in my state were gyms and salons.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, y'all got crushed in y'all state.

[Derek]

We got crushed, man. And we were the first. We were actually Santa Clara county's County I'm in. They were, like, the hardest, like, with regard to restrictions right out of the gate. So, man, there's Story upon story there. How ridiculous that got. But my business was closed for a year by order, and it got ugly. You know, there were citations being written, and, you know, they were trying to get law enforcement involved, and it was wild, like, particularly in our county, which was really bad. So anyhow, we were just trying to survive. And that meant, like, if people aren't coming in and getting training.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

We're not getting paid. Right. So you have to try to figure something. The word they, they, you know, you hear use commonly as pivot. So we try to put together some pivot to some online stuff, which, of course, is what everybody else was doing. And what we do is very personalized. Right. It's not a. It's not a cookie cutter for the masses kind of thing. So it was a. It's a. It was a big shift for us, and so we did that very quickly. I was fortunate to have, you know, know, had some relationships, like, dude, we got to shoot these videos, we got to write this stuff, we got to produce this.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Pretty PDF and, you know, kind of stuff. And then I have to put it online and sell it, and you can do all that work, but if nobody knows about it.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Derek]

So you're not going to sell anything. So I was encouraged to do a podcast. That's where I, you know, I was like, this is how I get the message out.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Derek]

And because I did have a lot of relationships in the fitness industry, after all my time, I could get those people on the show. And I was really seeking, like, conversation.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Being in our situation, I was like.

[Scott Howell]

People back then were wanting it because you're stuck at your house. And, you know, we were fortunate in Texas not near the restrictions y'all had. So I could really, you know, imagine that for y'all.

[Derek]

It was rough. I mean, you're talking about, like, what we built was a. Was a true community of people. And we weren't seeing our people. Yeah. And they weren't seeing us, so they were challenged, too. So anyhow, start this podcast and. Or I'm beginning the beginnings of the podcast. And, you know, you go through same things you guys probably went through, learning how all that works and what do you do and what equipment needs or whatever. Well, then shortly thereafter, the events of, you know, George Floyd had happened, and that weekend following when everything else was kind of getting silly and a lot of places here in America was getting saluted, where we were, too. City Halls is about two miles down the street from the gym. We're on the same street. I lived Two blocks back from the gym. Yeah, it's in a downtown area. I'm sitting there on the. On the couch with my, My. With my daughters and my. My partner in life and partner in business, cece. And we're watching the TV and, oh, they're handling that city hall business down there. As soon as things started getting lit on fire and, you know, cars getting rolled out into the street and whatever, law enforcement handled that, I. I really. I really appreciate that. Looking back, they got. They took a lot of heat for how they did it, but they handled it. But they pushed them out, they pushed them down. They were coming down, down the street, and I'm watching this happen, so I go, they're going to be in front of our business in about 10 minutes. And we had already suffered so much at that point, like, just emotionally, financially, whatever. I cannot watch my business get destroyed, you know, vandalized, burned down, whatever. Now, I want to be clear. San Jose was not Minneapolis or, you know, a lot of the cities and what they had to go through. But I was watching what was happening in those cities, and that was my city, and I didn't want to be on the receiving end of that if I could avoid it. So I packed up a couple firearms, packed up some food, a couple beers in a backpack, and I headed down to the gym and, you know, kind of just sat there and. And wanted to be a presence and just be a deterrent. Yeah. And I did that. There's big plate glass windows facing the boulevard and couch in a lobby area. Right. And there's a TV over. And I just kind of sat there and I put a pistol on the table just to. I was just being a presence. And I made eye contact with a lot of, like, unsavory people on the outside, but it didn't turn into anything, thank God.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

But it dawned on me, like, at that point how ill prepared I was and what the hell am I doing here? Like, what would happen? And by the way, I just left my family at home, which is two blocks from me. That didn't make a lot of sense. Right. And what am I going to do with this? Like, if somebody broke through the window, what is this. This instrument going to do for me here?

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

So it got me thinking that I should probably fix this problem because things had already gotten weird. I mean, it was toilet paper just months before that and burning cities down. So I started training and I started looking for outlets and, you know, firearms was a big piece of that. Medical was. Was a big piece of that. All the things you can think about, being prepared and being resilient and self. Self reliant. And so I started training and in that process and that journey, like a lot of people I think, like me, that don't come from the environments that you guys come from or have the resources, we go to places like social media to find answers, like, who's doing training and what are they training and what do I need? And I think I understand my why, but this guy over here is saying, I don't know what I'm. You know, like, I'm wrong. This dude. Yeah, this dude over here was, you know, at some point in his career, wore some color beret. Yeah. And this dude over here wore some. Some trident or something. Right. They're pissed at one another.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

You know, like, this is weird. Like, what is going on?

[Scott Howell]

Yes, it is. Yes.

[Derek]

So I just started on this journey of trying to find and search out answers. And interestingly, I found out there was a strong parallel between what I was kind of seeing the firearms training industry look like as compared to the fitness industry. Very, very similar, really. And about 10 to 15 years behind the fitness industry in terms of the drama and all the things that I had seen. So I was like, okay, I kind of understand this, but this is weird. Long story short, you know, trying to get to the end of this is that in that training process, I was really searching for the individuals that. That had a really strong message. And also what I felt were. Who I felt were really good coaches. Because I think good coaches know good coaches.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. Cause having that background.

[Derek]

Yeah, yeah. So I started reaching out to people and having some conversations, and one turned into another, turned into a training just connected me with somebody else. And I started having these things. I was. I wonder if. I wonder if people would be interested in hearing the conversations that I'm having about this stuff. Right. And it turns out they did. And they do. And I think part of it was is me coming to it not from the le side or from the military side, because I have no. No background in either. And just because that was what civilians were doing then and they're still doing it. Like, where do I go? Where do I start with this?

[Scott Howell]

Oh, for sure. Who was your first guest?

[Derek]

Yeah, well, the first guest just started with fitness industry.

[Scott Howell]

I mean, as far as, like, instructors.

[Derek]

So I think kind of where things, like, really kicked off was I had done a. I'd done an episode with some. Some guys that train the canines locally to us.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Derek]

And. And this is kind of some clickbaity stuff, but they train the Mals and everybody loves Malinois and whatever. And he's got this dog that does the, the PSA stuff, and he's an amazing dog. Well, we put him in the chair with the headset on. We did a little clip or whatever, and that thing went viral.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

A law enforcement officer, good friend, good friend, Chris Curris. He's down in, in Florida. He's on the teams down there in Lauderdale. His wife's also, also an officer, and she'd seen the clip and listened to some of the fitness stuff. We were putting it out, put it in front of him, said, hey, you might want to listen to this guy. Next thing I know, I get a. I get a call from Chris, who's working with a group down there called Condition One, and he's like, hey, man, you want to come down and train with us? And like, we just kind of kicked it. I was like, hell, yeah, I'd love to. Got down there and then things kind of exploded, just in terms of the contacts, but that's kind of where things happen, was just locally because those are the only people that I, that I.

[Scott Howell]

Really knew that, that, that's good. It, it, it's, it's interesting as you're, as you're talking about what happened and you're watching the news and you're like, hey, man, this is my home. They're getting close to my home. They're getting close to my business that I work for. And it gets to a point where you push a man into a corner, and that's kind of where you were 100%. And for me, I mean, I'm in Texas, you were in California. But listening to that, I'm getting, like, feelings of anger. I'm still on, on your behalf as a law enforcement because I'm like, damn, man, I don't want to fail the, the people that actually support us, the people that. That's the true community. Because you hear, well, the community doesn't want us to do this. What community are you talking about? Are you talking about the community that is a small, small percentage of criminal community or activists that have an agenda against us no matter what we do? Are you talking about the actual true community of the majority of people who just want to go to work, who want to raise a family in a safe environment, and they want the police to do things on their behalf? And you would love to have the police and hey, man, don't come down the street. If you do, this is what's going to happen to you. And if you do that, we're going to, we're going to show you what we told you we're going to do. And, and to me affects me because I don't like that because that's our damn job. It's not your job. You do it because you had to do it because no one else would. And at the end of the day, there's just not enough law enforcement to do some things. And I think that's why a civilian getting good quality training is, is so important. I don't have any problem with an American owning a gun, going to training and doing things. Now, do you need to do cqb? Do you know some of the stuff that we do? Do you need to go to, you know, a diversion device? No, you're not gonna be doing that. But as far as handling a handgun, yeah, you need to know that. Or a rifle or you, you know, sniper school, things like that. Yeah, it's going to teach you to teach to shoot this rifle as a scope on it at a distance. You know, you're not talking about let's make a sniper hide. And you know, you're going to do observation, shit like that. But the fundamentals of shooting a gun and stuff. So.

[Brandon]

Well, you know, I'm going to look at it from the other perspective because I kind of empathize with you.

[Derek]

Right.

[Brandon]

Because I have a family member that were in Dallas and they were a business homeowner and because of, you know, the. Right, because of all that. And they were upset about that, like, you know, that they're not able to run their business. And then all of a sudden, you know, the, the rioting and.

[Derek]

Yeah, it was like getting punched.

[Brandon]

Peaceful protest where they were. Yeah. So well, that was going sure enough, right after that my cousin, and that's a female, contacted me slang. Hey, my friends and I, we want to get guns and we want you to take us out to the range and, and you know, they knew me, so she's like, she was telling them, oh no, my cousin will take us to go shooting, you know, so like, okay, let's go out and you know, we're going to do the fundamentals. And that's what, like you said, that's what I'm teaching them. Hey, basic home protection. How to move, how to clear your house with your handgun, you know, and how to move and how to shoot with this handgun, first of all.

[Derek]

Right.

[Brandon]

But you know, I kind of gave them kind of these little basics and then we would do follow up training. But that was the first time to me when I. When I saw that frustration, you know, and they're just like, what is going on? Like, we need to.

[Derek]

We need.

[Brandon]

We need to arm ourselves, and we need to be able to defend ourselves because we're watching all this stuff playing out, you know, and then, you know, the government has shut us down and this and this. So, you know, that, like you were saying, it became a boiling point for people.

[Derek]

It was all bad news. And there's so many. So many Americans were thinking that same way. Maybe they didn't know where to go, and they didn't have somebody to go to, and. And so they go again, they go places to try to find out. So where do you go? Do you go to your local gun shop? Exactly. Right? So, like, who are you talking to behind the counter, and what's their agenda? Right. Or do you go to social media and, like, what do I do? Do I just Yelp Firearms training? And so, you know, like, do I Google? You know, what do I do? Who do I watch? Okay. I get on YouTube and I look up like, you know, some. Some search, and who pops up? Right. Well, you guys know what it looks like when you. When you do that stuff. You know, who the big names are and whatever. And none of that was speaking to me. Yeah. But it was, in a way, because I could kind of read through it and go. And my thing was like, oh, my God, like, this is really hard. If I was entering in this with no resource and being at that boiling point of frustration, like, there's. There's a lot of. Obviously, there's opportunists out there that are going to take advantage of that, and then there's people that truly believe they're doing good things when they're not so good, you know, taking people's money and training them to do stuff. So, like, going back to the CQB thing, you're right, man. Who needs to do that? You're never gonna. I'm never gonna be in a team situation where I'm entering a room or whatever. However, like, most Americans live in a home or an apartment, and they have families or whatever, and they have a handgun or they have some type of a. Of a firearm. And so many people went out and got those. That was the answer. I need a gun. Yeah, right. Okay. That's the answer to the absolute worst end of this. Like, and that's. That's. Those are the messages that I don't think we're really getting out there. It was like, I have to go from one extreme to the other. And if they didn't have the resource like you were to your family, then they were searching for, for places. And I was looking at this going, man, there's some really gnarly out there, and there's also some really good stuff. And I don't hear people talking about it in a really productive way. Going back to how kind of that industry was handling themselves at the time through social media. So my thing was like, if I can, if I can find some good answers here, I feel like they're good for me.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And they're good for the people that I'm seeing them be good for. Like, let me share the message. That's what I can give back. And to your point, with regard to the, you know, law enforcement officers, I have always been very pro law enforcement, and I recognized the, the challenges that they were having, you know, in terms of getting training and what they did and didn't know or what they had or didn't have, which I was. I think we're. I was kind of eavesdropping on that last, last episode you guys were doing. Were doing about, you know, people make an assumption that maybe police officers know everything there is to know about firearms and ballistics and all that stuff. And again, who they call, they call their cop buddy, they call their uncle who's got the, you know, got that training. And so there's that part of it too.

[Scott Howell]

Exactly.

[Derek]

So I was like, how can I help here? And then obviously, maybe bridging the gap on the fitness side of things was another, Another thought. But that's. Yeah, that's. That I think that culture, you know, really got stoked right in that, in, during that time because people felt like they were backed into a corner.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And make no mistake about it, I'm still angry about it. I'm not over it yet.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, I don't blame you because to me, as a, as in law enforcement, I feel like that's just my job to protect these citizens. And when I hear that we're not doing it, and I understand, like, I mean, you can't be everywhere all the time, but there's. It was more of an institutional failure on our part. I mean, I mean, look at it now. I mean, there's, you know, there's 800 plus officers that are just in the same building that we're in, but this building is so big. If something were to happen right now in this room, how long would it take those 800 officers to get up here? How much damage could be Done by then a lot. So you got to be able to protect yourself, your family. I mean, someone breaks in the middle of night, you have to be. Or something happens. When you're going out on a date and you're out in town and something happens, you got to be able to do that.

[Derek]

Yeah, I think that where people. I. For a long. For a little bit of time there, I think people thought that was really extreme, what you just said.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, right.

[Derek]

Like, no, no, no, no. Like that nobody needs a gun. Like this can be handled, you know, by. With feelings and, you know, conversation. And the reality of it is, is people. People don't. Still don't. They don't understand what violence is and the reality of that. And that at some point the only answer to violence is violence.

[Scott Howell]

Exactly.

[Derek]

And I think I understood that pretty well through experiences I've had in my life and whatnot. I kind of understood, you know, where that could get to and what that looks like. What I did, what I wasn't prepared for, was to walk into situations and conversations in my own training where the people around me had no clue about that.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Derek]

And then watching it sort of unfold on social media, you know, in. In media, I would just say media in general, where now it's all very accessible. And if you don't understand that at this point, you are simply got your head buried in the sand, you're not paying attention. And that's where, you know, bridging the gap, I think, is where I. Where I was trying to go with like, not being. This is not an extreme thing. This is a very real thing. And how are you preparing yourself for it and who are you dependent on to protect yourself? And I just. To your point, like, I was sitting down there by myself, you know, my business. Had I called 911, dude? Nope. As the saying goes, no one is coming. They were busy. Real busy. Real busy.

[Scott Howell]

This is your.

[Derek]

I wasn't mad about that. I understood the reality of that. So I have to do something. So.

[Scott Howell]

And then thing too is like, I mean, when I worked out in a. In a. In a box gym type, you know, environment, you know, I always had my gun in my gym bag and stuff because I'm like, I have no idea who's in here that, hey, their. Their husband just found out they're doing the. The trainer and that mofo comes in, that's very real, and starts blasting, right? Or the dude who's obsessed with this hot chick over here who's turned him down comes in and wants to kill him. Or kill her. And you just don't know if you can think about it. The can happen.

[Derek]

So, yeah, I don't think it's weird to think like that, but I think people think it's weird to think like that because I've never ever thought about it or ever faced the realities of that. It's interesting that you just said that, like, what's happening around you, that happens on a daily basis. And people are completely shocked. I'm like, I don't know why you're shocked. So here's a good example of this. I don't know if you guys caught this just in the last couple of days to see that there's a viral video out there of the mayor of the city standing on the sidewalk giving an interview or about to give an interview. So the media is all set up and there's a plain duty or, sorry, plain clothes officer who's supposed to be the, the close protection for this guy. And whether the guy's homeless or not, he's having a bad day comes up and he starts to interrupt. And so there's a little conversation that happens and all of a sudden a fight breaks out and it's between. And this homeless dude is handling. Handling this guy.

[Scott Howell]

I haven't seen that.

[Derek]

It's. You'll see it because it's been going, that's San Jose. That was our mayor.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, wow.

[Derek]

Yeah. I mean, and. And that's literally right down the street, happening right down the street from where. Where we are. Like where. Where my gym is. The point of that is, I bring that up to say is like, still so many people have their head buried in the sand. We deal with that. Like, I literally deal with that every week. Something like that. I'm not getting a physical confrontation, but I have. I'm presenting myself as, you need to leave here because. Or stop kicking my A frame signs outside. Like, because you're having a bed. I'm literally dealing with that every day. But nobody wants to pay attention to that or look at that as like, oh, that's not really happening. Well, now it just happened literally to the mayor of the city. Right, right in front of your eyes. When are you going to wake up?

[Brandon]

Yes.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. Because. Because you are the, the person that's having to deal with the consequences every day for someone's lack of leadership, someone's political agenda and all that other stuff. And, and it goes down to the taxes you pay, the effort that you put in to build a business that.

[Derek]

Benefits the city 100%.

[Scott Howell]

But yet because of Their agenda fails you, and you have to take matters in your own hand of going, hey, why am I having to clear out all these homeless people all the time? That's not your issue. That. That is law enforcement's issue. That. That is our. As a citizen who pays taxes. That's part of the job description that we have. I mean, do I like dealing with the homeless people? No, but that is just things that we have to do. But it goes back to what is the culture that you're setting in your city. And, you know, you're a benefit or you're not. It's not a benefit to you. You're just someone who has to deal with that and, and deal with it. You're like, well, damn, man. But it's happening all over the country and, you know, especially in the real life that you live in, it's hard. I mean, I hate. I hate it for, For. For people that have their own business and that happened to them because it. We're lucky when. When something breaks at our department, guess what, we got another one. Someone's going to fix it. You guess what, it's your assets paying for it, you know, and stuff.

[Derek]

Yeah, you watch. I don't want to spell doom and gloom, but, you know, you watch the business owners, like, and what's really happening now, it's. It's very much in, I would say, a crisis. You know, people are moving out of the city, cities, because it's unaffordable or it's. I don't want to say it's uninhabitable, but it's. The quality of life is being. Is being, you know, diminished. And I was seeing that during this lockdown period when the whole podcast started, which is sort of the inspiration of the things. I knew I could help people, but I didn't know how to do it from that current situation. And so, like, when it came into this training stuff and being able to help, it was like my way of like, okay, well, I have to do something. I can't go out and clear out the homeless situation. I can't deal with the fentanyl stuff that's happening in front of my eyes. I just. I don't have. Right. I can't do it, but what can I do? And I think that's really the question that people should be asking themselves is like, okay, it's bad. And I'm still fucking pissed off. I'm really angry.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Still. But what can I do to maybe make a difference? Which, again, is kind of led me to this Table today and the people that I've met and the experiences that I've had with. With people that do what you do and outside of what you guys do and given me an opportunity, like, and also created an opportunity to be able to help at a larger level. So I'm super stoked about that. Good.

[Scott Howell]

So your shooting journey. So let's talk about that. So started taking one class and then started building. Is that kind of how it worked out?

[Derek]

Yeah, I mean, you learn. You start to figure out the things that you don't know that you didn't know. And that leads to the next thing and leads to the next thing. And it was really more about like, I just need to get some experience. It's like going to the gym, right? So the first time, like, you, you get in there and you have maybe some. You're nervous. Yeah, right? You're like, do I look okay? Am I wearing the right today? Like, am I supposed to have what that guy has? Yeah, yeah, you know, whatever. Like, is this gun all right? Like, and. Because I heard all these things, right?

[Scott Howell]

And all that stuff by that gun. And then the other guy goes, no, buy that gun. This is the gun to have. Yeah, right.

[Derek]

Like, and how do I even handle this thing the way it. Like, am I doing this right? Because I don't want to look like an idiot. Is this the right machine? Is this the right exercise for this stuff? And then, you know, going through all that, like, so you do go through that. It's really, really fortunate to be around some really good people right from the get go to set me on the right path. But also it's. Dude, it's up to you to figure this out. Like, you going down the journey, that's where you really have to, like, you have to be committed to this. So, yeah, going one class to another and you start to learn, like, what's out there, you understand? You start to learn that, look, there's fundamentals and those are the things you need to be practicing all the time. And there's some cool shit out there. And I've probably made some $600 training mistakes, you know, Like, I probably didn't need that. Like, or that was really terrible compared to. But I didn't know that until I'd gone through these other experiences to have those comparisons.

[Scott Howell]

But you also. Yeah, it's something that you're like, yeah, that wasn't a class. That was quote, good. But I did learn some values that I don't maybe want to repeat or that I wasn't quite sure. If that was the way to do it. And now I know that's not the way to do it. And things like that.

[Derek]

Exactly.

[Scott Howell]

I've experienced that before. Or like, yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to instruct like that guy. Like, that was some things that I took away from things like that.

[Derek]

I think that if I said it was like, if it wasn't good, it was just a poor experience.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

There's always value to be extracted from the things that I think.

[Brandon]

So you're right.

[Derek]

Yeah. And, you know, like, nobody's reinventing the wheel, right?

[Brandon]

No, no, no, no.

[Derek]

So, like, if somebody comes and I quickly learn, like, if somebody comes across, like they're. They've invented this or this is an original thought. Like this it isn't so. Right.

[Scott Howell]

Knock on the door, like, it's housekeeping. Housekeeping.

[Brandon]

So, yeah, no, that. And that's what we were talking about earlier, where you have some subject matter experts in here in the snow sniper community, and they're basically saying, yeah, I have this, but it's something that I.

[Scott Howell]

It's all right. Housekeeping. Sorry. Yeah.

[Brandon]

Welcome to the conference. So you figured out this is not a professional podcast.

[Derek]

It's actually. You guys are set up really nicely.

[Scott Howell]

He. He figured that out the. With the first night I met him in the hospitality suite. And I have this damn disco ball helmet on. That's how I introduced myself.

[Brandon]

That has. Let me tell you something, that has nothing to do with the podcast. That has everything to do with the hospitality.

[Scott Howell]

That's how he knew. Why was it professional?

[Brandon]

Oh, okay, there's our podcast.

[Scott Howell]

But.

[Brandon]

And you heard him, and you were probably in here when they're like, yeah, and trust me that this is something I stole from something else. But, you know, this is from another instructor.

[Derek]

I heard that too. Yeah.

[Brandon]

And you bring it in. Like Brandon was saying, you take what. And you're like, man, I think if we combine these three things, man, this makes us efficient or whatever tactic we're doing, or, hey, I'm gonna. I want my. I want my recruits to start out. It took me 10 years, like, to get to a class to learn this. Why aren't we teaching these basic recruits, man? We're setting them up for success at an early age to make them better than us.

[Derek]

So, yeah, it's efficiency. Yeah. And getting to cutting. Cutting through the fat to get to the meat and potatoes. Yeah. That was something that became very apparent to me pretty quickly. And then understanding, you know, like, if being able to take some of the more complex stuff and be able to boil it down to, to be palatable or digestible, if you will, for the person that's standing in front of you. That's the coaching piece and the art in that. You know as well as you know, obviously you have to be able to do the thing that you're saying to do. Yeah, that's important. It is. Seen a lot of things, but yeah, the, the at this point in my journey I've seen things and the best ones give credit to where they got it right or where they got it from. I've seen enough of that now to see how like I look at kind of things in like Venn diagrams and how those, those overlaps into different circles of people or places. The good ones, they all, they all learn and talk to one another quite frequently. You know, they call one another out, you know, or not in a negative way, but like just in question, like I saw you doing this, why are you doing that? And there's not. Well, there's ego and everybody says you got to leave your ego aside. Let's be honest, there's still ego involved. But they are, they're all able to have a conversation about, to try and make one another better. And they're in there in general. They're fairly public about it now versus before. I think a lot of people play a lot of stuff close to the chest. So yeah, again the journey in and of itself has been a super rewarding one, an interesting one. I mean I love doing the training, right, but I come for the people for that and that's great being around like minded folks and, and, and learning. And that's been the best part about this conference for me is like there's a, there's, there's a higher level dudes here, you know, like they're deeper thinkers, right. And they're trying to solve problems and they're very focused. That's been a really cool part of this for me too.

[Brandon]

That goes back to our, you know, and that this is our 40th year anniversary and you know, it started with some guys meeting at a range and training and like, hey, we ought to, you know, get together once a year and start this up, right? So that's kind of where the beginnings of that happened. But eventually you evolve into hey, now we have an association, we have a lot of large group of membership coming in. So hey, let's go ahead and establish these bylaws and let's establish these mission statement, right, which included networking. Because why do the guys out here in the panhandle of Texas, you know, not have the same opportunity to train that the Dallas SWAT officers do or Houston swat, you know. And that's kind of how this whole thing in our association evolved. And that's what I love. That's what we love about. That's how, that's how we became friends. Right. And colleagues as well, working at different agencies. But it wasn't for this association. In these classes, I may have never met Brandon.

[Derek]

Yeah. So I talked to some of the local guys where I'm at and they, they. I don't want to say. When I say they, I don't really know who they is. What I can tell you is at one point there were events like this and they were like training evolution events where they were like three day training events where they bring in, you know, agencies and departments from all over and they were training together and go through mock scenarios and things like that and. And whoever they are are taking that away.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

You know, for whatever. We don't want to spend the money, you know, or, you know, this looks too militaristic, you know, like that, that kind of thing. Like it's, it's frightening in some, some kind of way. I think what you guys are. All, what you guys are doing here is so important. And it comes like the networking is one thing, but the shared learning. Right. To then be able to go back in the relationships that get built to like, I have a problem. Who can I call?

[Scott Howell]

Exactly.

[Derek]

You know, or like I need, I need an expert in this thing. Like, I know this dude isn't the expert, but I know he probably knows somebody that knows that is the expert. And it's bringing people together when things have been so divisive for so, so long. It's been weird the last few years. I mean, for, for from what I can see from the outside looking in. And so when I talk to people downstairs stairs. Really interesting to hear that. The problems. And again, we. People from California look at Texas maybe one way and people from Texas look at, you know, California another way. It's. It's the same problems.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

It's the same things. It's just. It's different environments, certainly different policies and things. But while the politics might be a little bit different, the problems are still the same.

[Scott Howell]

No.

[Derek]

And you guys are here working them out.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Which is really cool.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. And then there we have California guys that, that come out here and I have California at least what guys that I know that are in California and all over the country. And I mean, there's there's always conversations, which is good. What are some of the, what are some of the trainers that you've trained with? You're like, man, I really got a lot out of that. We're some of those guys.

[Derek]

Sure. I mean, people that I've, I've been in front of for like long periods of time, whether it's at the table and not, not train. So there's a couple guys out there. Some of them are maybe more notorious than others. Like guys that I've sat down with and had sort of. On one end of the spectrum would be guys like Mike Pinone and, and Matt Pranka.

[Scott Howell]

Two guys that train with us.

[Derek]

Yeah. Guys that I've had conversations with there on, on, on different things. Like I can, I can DM those guys if I wanted or call them. I've talked to Mike on the phone. In fact, he's coming up to finally do the podcast I haven't had him on. He's gonna be out in a couple weeks. You know, guys like that.

[Scott Howell]

And then, and a conversation with Mike is not a short conversation. He gets involved and he, and, and I love his passion, man. Like, it's agreed. The first time I ever talked with him, it was a two hour conversation. I'm thinking, dude, I'm at work, I gotta, I gotta get going. I didn't know this was gonna take that long, but I got into it, he got into it. And we're, we're friends and I like him a lot because he, he is definitely a deep dive guy and into the why of stuff.

[Derek]

Yeah. So we're talking like, like firearms instruction, guys like that. But then there's other guys. Like I'm here with Jake labhart. That's, that's why I'm here. We're kind of working on a project together I'm super excited about. And, and it's why I'm here. That's how I, how I wound up here today, you know, at this conference. And his, his bringing the movement piece and the shooting piece together.

[Scott Howell]

Yes.

[Derek]

Which for me, from the human performance side of things, like, I get that and I didn't, I don't really see anybody else doing it the way Jake's been doing it. And I don't know if they can. And that's probably why not, but that's neither here nor there right now. So. Like these different ends of the spectrum. And then again, I think I've approached this a little bit differently. Like I care about the fitness piece, I care about the longevity, I care about the resiliency. So I've, I get to talk to guys. Like there's guys in the human performance side of things. There's Shelton Stevens who's out in, in North Carolina, he works with the, the unit guys and the Ranger, but Rangers out there, this guy Jeff Nichols, he's out in Virginia, he's an ex, he's an ex SEAL guy who, who preps people for selection. Now that's his niche.

[Scott Howell]

Right?

[Brandon]

Okay.

[Derek]

And these are just great coaches that are contributing to the community at large in their different ways. Right. And so, I mean the list goes on and on. I've been so fortunate. I mean so many, I've taken so many class from so many people on so many. Whether it's distance shooting, you know, to pistol red dot stuff with a medical.

[Brandon]

I mean, I love to see that collaboration too because when we used to run these conferences, we had the fitness classes and we had the shooting classes and then, you know, like you said, Jake and even Mike, Mike P and Lapart got together and collaborated on some classes in North Texas, you know, and guys are, guys are eating that stuff up, so. And they're having to push themselves too. So.

[Scott Howell]

And it's not just swat, the SWAT dude, right? It's for everybody, everyone in law enforcement. Because that's our niche. I mean it's, it's law enforcement. You know, we get, we get tons of people. I mean if I, if I put out a, a shooter that's not a law enforcement shooter. I mean, I get emails. Hey, I'm so, and so I'm, you know, I'm an in class shooter. I want to go to this class. Can I go? Like, man, sorry. Like it's for LA only. I mean it's LA military. So that's our niche of what we, I mean that's our training organization. But I don't care if you're the patrol guy, CID guy, SWAT guy, movement and shooting, you got to be able to do that. And you got to be able to do that with explosiveness, with athleticness, if that's even a word I don't even know. I just made, when I said it didn't sound right, that's what I was like, man. It didn't sound right.

[Derek]

So yeah, I think everybody's trying to do the same thing, right? They're trying to just be better get. They want that thing to be over as fast as it can be. You want to get in the room as fast as you can, whatever the situation the situation is. And so yeah, the movement piece, when they see it happening. They recognize, oh, that guy's pretty fast, that it happened, but they don't know the steps. And I think that that's what. Where, like, guys like Jake or some of these other guys are doing is like, okay, there's a way to do this. Like, you can train this, and if you train this and you put it together with this other thing over here, man, a half a second. That's a lot of time, I would imagine, if you're on the receiving end.

[Scott Howell]

A lot of time.

[Derek]

Right. Or the giving end, it's second. I mean, there's a lot of things. And then, you know, the tenths of a second, the competition guys get this.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Like, they're always looking for, like, how do I steal time here on this particular thing? And that's the exciting part about it, because that's what I'm into.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Derek]

I nerd out on that shit. So I can watch it and go, like, you could be doing this. This is how you might turn this into a training program. But before you even do that, like, we need to work on your strength. We need to work on your, you know, your mobility, Right? There's those. Those different pieces, and I think there's. There's. So there's a huge value add to what he's. What he's training beyond the shooting.

[Scott Howell]

And I think, too, like, for. For older guys like myself and Graham, we've been on the team so long, it's like dog years. It ages you. So, I mean, when we get out of these chairs, we're like, oh, oh, my hip. Oh, my knee. This and that. But it goes back to dumb. We were doing when we were young and warm up. What's that, man? I don't need to warm up. Like, let's just go do it.

[Brandon]

That's what we didn't have.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Brandon]

Back to probably when you were in sports, you know?

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Brandon]

Back. Back there, you're like, you don't need water. Get back out here.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Brandon]

And then you're like, no, we should probably hydrate these kids in Texas two days, you know?

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. Or like, you know, you're. You load up in a van, and then all of a sudden, hey, stop, man. We got to pull over, man. He just left or whatever. You're like, okay, now you sit in a van for two hours. You're like, okay, now I'm like, I'm getting up. I'm moving. I'm just kind of stretching because I just can't get out of the van anymore and just go full send you.

[Derek]

Know, because there's so many things. There's so many things. I mean, the, the accumulation of that, you know, plus the, plus the work, plus, you know, lack of sleep, weird shift work.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Things that could be going on emotionally, psychologically, stuff like that, the nutrition end of things. I mean, there's so many pieces that, that add into that longevity piece.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And putting you in a position to perform on demand when it, when it happens. I've never done the job, I'll never do the job to pretend that I know what that is or that I can do it. But I do know some things about some of the components that might. They might. And I've been doing this a while.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

So they might help, you know, and here's things that you can do, like off the job or you're already working out, man, maybe you spend a little bit more time over here. And if you just stayed consistent with that, like a lot of things, you would, you would reap long term benefit from that in term, including that longevity so that you can enjoy that retirement, you know, whenever you finally get there and speak.

[Brandon]

And you mentioned this earlier when you were trying to, talking about during the shutdowns, when you were, you guys were trying to come up with performance plans for people, and you're like, well, it's not really how we do personal training because it's, we personalize what that person needs and we create a plan for them.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Brandon]

And that's, you know, talking to Jake, it's the same thing where he, you know, you know, well, hey, can you put together, can you write us a training program up for our department? Our guys is like, well, I need to see those guys first and I need to find out what job you're doing or what job you're doing. And someone else may need a little more strength than someone else may need a little more agility type training.

[Derek]

So it's how you would treat athletes, right? I mean, if you went to like a pro team, I mean, like right now, like right in the middle of the NFL draft or whatever, and you got all these different position players. Now the general format or framework is, is like we're going to lift weights, we're doing some strength and conditioning, everybody's going to squat, everybody's going to deadlift, whatever, whatever the thing, everybody's going to run, everybody's going to sprint. But do you train the offensive tackle the same way you train the wide receiver? Fundamentally, the things are the same, but the approach to doing that's going to be much different. For obvious reasons, however, like when I start talking, this is the thing. Like when I was going out there training, sometimes I would go train early when I started and still to this day, I mean, I might have three long enforcement officer standing to the left of me and I might. That were all training on their dime, their time with this particular instructor and then, you know, everybody else, you know, like me or whatever. And the point of this is, is that person to me is a professional. Right. And particularly if you're on a team, like you need to be training a certain way in order to be able to perform on demand at all these different things and you guys got a lot of shit to do. Yeah, right. I mean there's a lot of things to know to expect that you guys should know how to do all of that. That's not realistic. So sometimes it's a tough pill to swallow to kind of go, look, dude, what I've been doing is working for me, working for me. Yeah, the meathead approach works until it doesn't grow, you know, and then, and then you, you're. What you don't want to do is find yourself on the, on the end of like now I can't do it or I can't do something where it takes you out of the game. So again, if, I think if people are approach their training a little bit, a little bit more. I'm not saying scientifically.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

I'm just saying a little bit more logic and a little bit less. This has worked for me. I only have this many hours in the day, a little bit more efficiently, they could probably be, be doing themselves a lot better for sure.

[Scott Howell]

And I think that's going back to, you know, like, you know, nutrition or that, like, okay, I'm a cop. There's some guys that really dig deep down in there, but that's, that's the small percentage. So if there's nutrition type stuff and someone is, is able to give that to me in a, a simple way that I understand it, man, I'm going to run with that. Same with working out some type of program that goes, hey man, this is what. Because once again, we're law enforcement, we're not in the fitness industry, we're not in the industry that is performance based, but we are athletes that just have a gun and we're moving. And you look at that in this pool area right here, I'm looking down and I'm like, man, you had an active shooter in there. You mean there is, there are so many obstacles to run through and Zigzag through. I mean that is, that's, that's an obstacle course that you're running. It's, that's an athletic event down there at chasing active shooter.

[Derek]

If you looked at things like that.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Like, and then you evaluate like, okay, now where am I spending my training time?

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Am I spending it in the squat rack and on the, you know, on the deadlift platform? Does that help me Right. Do what you just said? Yeah, again, that's the mindset. So again, serving it up to you that way. And the, the reality of that is because this has been my experience, when I look at it, they go like, yeah, you're probably right, but they could just go back to what they were doing anyways. So it's like a nurturing process and, and, and, and trying to educate. I think that's a big part of it is trying to educate in a way that, that, that makes sense. Not trying to over science or, or over complicate things but, but educate them on, hey, here's some things you may try and also serve it up to them in a way that's like, okay, yeah, here's the plan and I think we could do this. But keeping, you know, in mind what you said before, some people are going to need a little bit more individuality to this. And, and there are people out there that can deliver that. I think just most people fall into the, like, just give me the one size fits all. I mean, I'll do that. And for a lot of people, that one size fits all can get them a lot of success because they maybe weren't doing anything at all. Or it's way better than what they were doing. But if you could just, you know, if you maybe just took another deep breath and step back a little bit, like, how can I make this more for me? And if I understand more, you know, kind of what my whys are and what my, you know, what my problem sets are, I could self diagnose this a little bit better and have a re. And if there was a resource or I could just call say hey, am I doing the right thing? Like, is this the right thing? What could I be doing more of? And just feed it to him like that. I think injuries probably be less like the, the sort. The back is going to get stiff, right. Anyways, the hips and back are going to be stiff. But can we lessen that? Can we, can we, you know, I guess can you then make yourself more productive during your workouts? You're actually getting the benefit out of what you're doing. Yeah, right. Versus just doing the, doing the thing.

[Scott Howell]

Like I think once again, man, I brainstorm and things when people are talking. But I think, I think you would be a great addition to coming out to the SWAT competition. You know, we do all those train ups and stuff like that. Doing some type of train up of like, hey, here's how to prepare for this. Here's what proper this, whatever that you know it. I don't know it, but I know, you know, when you watch the events and you know what we do, what we need, you know what we need. We don't necessarily know that. We just know we need something in that arena. But, but I think coming out to the SWAT competition would be a great thing for, for, for you and to be able to, to merge our, our two communities together and continue to merge that. Cause that's how Jake started.

[Derek]

Exactly.

[Scott Howell]

You know.

[Derek]

Yeah, that'd be amazing. And you know, guys like Jake are guys that you should be working with. I mean, and that's, that's why, that's why I'm, I'm, I'm working with Jake as well is to, is to help with that. Because I think there's a huge opportunity for everybody in it.

[Scott Howell]

It.

[Derek]

And it's not about changing everybody's world, it's just it. There are some, there are some basic stuff I think that would really make a huge difference. That'd be, that'd be amazing.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, I would love to make that happen. Did we just make that happen or how does that work?

[Brandon]

Yeah, I know a guy.

[Derek]

So show me where to start.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, so, yeah.

[Brandon]

And you know, I talked to Jake on the phone in the former position that I used to be in. Right. I think it was when I was vice president or whatever end of the association. But Jake had called and he, you know, he was moving to Texas and some teams had already worked with him and you know, I was like, man, that's exciting. You know, and then I ran into him at the competition and then that's where he was out there massaging people.

[Scott Howell]

Massaging men.

[Derek]

Yeah, he comes out, I mean the guy's, the guy comes out from the physical therapy background. He's got a doctor, doctor in physical therapy. I mean you would never know that. Like he doesn't use that, you know, as a, as a approach to anything. And I think that's important too is like people start paying attention to him because how good a shooter he is.

[Brandon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Derek]

You watch him run, run through stuff like, damn, that guy's, that guy's really good. There's something different about that, that. Just all that other stuff he's used to get there, but he doesn't. He doesn't. That's what you have to do to get people's attention, I think. And he's done a really good job.

[Scott Howell]

With that, and he's done a really good job of. Of just really emerging himself in our community to be a sponge. When he first got on board with our association as, I don't know, whatever his title was, I don't know, man. I had hours, long conversations with him, several of them just picking his brain and trying to go, hey, let's. What about this? What about this? Let's do this. Have you thought about this? And then he brought in the business side to our organization as well, with his background. And so he really taught me some things about just kind of some marketing, some stuff, how to talk to vendors, how to talk to people that were not in law enforcement on the business side of it. Because I'm just like, man, I am who I am. I don't, you know, but got it. Yeah. And I have a lot of ideas, but I didn't know how to really kind of focus those into. To do stuff. So he's really helped with that, which I really like. But he's one of those guys that, you know, I've introduced him to a lot of people in the. In the industry, and I'm like, I like doing that. Hey, man, here's so and so, here's this guy. Y'all take it from here. Y'all go make babies and do whatever you need to go do. Which I like that because I see the results. I see what. What he's done. I love that y'all are out here doing something together. I don't know what that's going to be. I'm sure it's top secret stuff.

[Derek]

And then a little bit for now, we'll.

[Scott Howell]

We'll see about it later. But I like that that's encouraging. I like that's. That's pushing training to a new level, and that's what we should be doing as organizations. And quite frankly, I think we're probably one of the only organizations that's doing that right now.

[Derek]

You know, that's the interesting thing. Like, I've probably been very spoiled, you know, coming to this thing and having the experience that I've had. I mean, obviously being here at the table is awesome. For me, this is a lot of fun. But downstairs and kind of seeing how this thing is running, I've been to a lot of things. And again, I can compare a lot, a lot of things in the fitness industry. We know a lot of conferences, a lot of trade shows, a lot of, you know, continuing education type things. And when I go down there, it's very well handled. And I don't know how they're handling it at other states, if they even have organizations like this or other, other places. But I gotta imagine this is pretty close to the model for how you would want to do something like that from the outside looking in. And again, the bigger piece of that is, is the opportunity that you're giving people to, to just be in the same room together and have conversations rather than like, it's not over structured to where like again, you put people in classrooms all day, like, and you. Because they're not networking that way, they might as well. You might as well leave them at home and do this online or something like that. You're given opportunities, you know, for people to kind of be in front of other good talent. Like, I just had this conversation with this guy, this guy Chris from, from Austin. He's on the Austin crew down there. He was talking to me about this BJJ program that he was able to get put together. Did you guys hear about this?

[Brandon]

We talked to him the other day.

[Scott Howell]

We talked to him.

[Derek]

I was like, man, I don't know how you got that approved, but, but basically bringing my comp covered and stuff like that. Yeah, he's exactly crazy. People are. Yeah, it was exactly.

[Brandon]

And we're wanting to have him on, but we're running out of time.

[Derek]

Yeah, he's what a smart dude, right?

[Scott Howell]

I know.

[Brandon]

We have to. Yeah, we had that conversation. I was like, that's awesome. Our chief's been wanting to implement that and he can't get city council, you know, to sign off on it.

[Derek]

And that's what I said. I said, how did you get that signed off on you? Kind of walk me through his process ago, dude, everybody here should know about this. This is something that everybody can benefit by. And that's what I mean, like having those kind of conversations, putting people. I don't know if anybody else is doing it like this. I have no, no idea. But I feel like somehow I've been spoiled, you know, coming to this and being exposed to it.

[Scott Howell]

No, and we always say this, man, we're, we're standing on the shoulders of, of men who started this organization and it's our job to, to make it better. And then the people that are, they're going to replace us. That's their responsibility to take it to greater heights than what we started at. You know, that. That's, that's the way it should be, and that's the way we. We truly, like, there's, there's. I don't have an ego with this, man. It's about training. It's about getting guys better. At the end of the day, if you're not about that, you need to be feet. I don't have time for you. I just don't. Like, I'm to the point in my career. I'm like, I don't give a. About what you've done. Are you willing to serve people because you have a voice that will affect them? If you're not, go do something else, man. Get out of our space, you know, go. Go do your own time and make your own money. Because we're not about that. Because that's. This is what we're about. We're about training anybody who wants to come as an officer, you know, and that's the way it should be. But sometimes that gets lost.

[Derek]

But I agree. But I think you guys are doing it all the right ways. I mean, obviously people are going to walk away from here and talk about their experiences and hopefully share some of those ideas. You got the podcast, or you're putting it out that way and getting in front of people. Like, I appreciate the fact that, like, I'm even here. Like, who is this guy? Like, I'm from the outside looking in those types of messages that get out, that carries. And again, it's clear down there that there is a very strong culture here, just here at the show, but across the state. And I think bringing that sense and getting people exposed to that when they go back now, it's bigger than them. I think I heard you say that earlier, actually, that they recognize I am part of a bigger thing. This isn't just about me or just this team or just the city. This is a bigger deal, for sure. And I'm sure there's a little competition that goes along.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Brandon]

Then you have, you know, one of the themes here is also you get these breakout courses, so you get to choose. And there's over 50 courses.

[Derek]

You get to choose from the next couple days, right?

[Brandon]

Yeah. And then, you know, our hope is for the instructors, too, is someone goes, yeah, we were only able to send two or three guys here, but, man, we would love to have you come and run this for our. Our guys or, you know, run this in our region, you know, or whatever the Case may be. So, you know, we're just trying to, like you said, give them an idea of, of, hey, this structure can add this to your program. You know, if you're willing to bring them in, you can. And you can do that on your own. You don't have to go through the organization or you can go through your region and send, you know, five or six more guys at this class.

[Derek]

Yeah, I mean, this is how smart businesses run. Right? And like, like when I look at, you know, I look at departments or like public service in general, like, it's a service and cities aren't run like a business if they were probably a different situation. Right, right, right. So I see you guys, I see. What I, What I see happening is this is being looked at view more like, yes, we're providing service to the officers and to the communities and to the community at large. But at the same time, it's like you just said it like, this is a business opportunity for everybody to get better together and provide these services, you know, down the line. So I look from outside looking in, whether I'm a vendor, I'm an instructor, whatever else, this is where you want it. You want to be at ttpoa. Like, you want that invite. And what I gathered from downstairs is you guys are gonna need a bigger boat. Like, that room ain't big enough.

[Brandon]

And that's why we're coming back here, because it's so large. I mean that. You're right, it is. But. But we're. We run out of vendor space because guys, you know, the word goes out.

[Derek]

Yeah, great problem.

[Scott Howell]

And I think doing a podcast with you, because if you were to look at it, you know, he's not a military guy, he's not a LA guy. I mean, he. What is, what is this guy going to bring to. To tpoa? I don't look at it that way. In the fact of, man, you have a platform. You have a platform that, that we don't reach, and that is civilians, because the most part is, you know, we train officers and things like that. But I feel it's our obligation as well as part of our responsibility is to connect with citizen citizens, citizens who want to be engaged with police officers, citizens that want to feel protected, citizens that want to be proud of the city they live in and the officers that represent them. And so if we can bridge that gap by bringing someone like you or doing community events or doing things like that, that's a win for us. Because I don't know who your audience is, but there's probably someone in your audience that's going to listen and go, man, what if I have this service that I could provide for this organization? Let me reach out to them, tons of them, you know, and to me, that's how you impact things. It's not just our little, little bubble. And we're going to stay in our little bubble. And we've done that in law enforcement. Still do in some. In some aspects. But, you know, and the same thing with, with the civilian side. If we can serve a. A niche in that area that we've never thought of, we want to do that as well. Like, man, hey, this is. This is. This works for us as well. Like, this is a good marriage here.

[Derek]

So, yeah, I think there's so much opportunity for everybody that's here. And I mean, you guys have a massive. This is a big platform, from what I can tell, to. To be able to expand. Like I said, a bigger boat. And to be clear, for those people that aren't at the show, that the floor down there is awesome. There's plenty of space. It's not. I was telling somebody this yesterday. I was actually met with the big text guys. And one of the things I appreciate is, like, it's not. It's. There's enough space for everybody. Yeah. It's not 10 people deep at a table, which is annoying for the participant. And it's really bad for the vendor.

[Brandon]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Right. Because they come here, they spend their money. Right. To come here, and they can't have those conversations. You guys have provided that environment. So again, from a business dude, you know, like, what is my return on investment when I come to a show or something like this? It really is. Is the connections you make and the people that you touch. Because there is really no way to measure the return on investment of. Of coming to something like this. Yeah, you have to be in it to. To. To provide a service. And I. If I do a really good job about that and I'm remarkable or a remarkable product that I can talk about, you know, in a way that people kind of get it, that return on investment comes much later down the line.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, it's. It's huge. It's huge because, you know, I was in the hospitality suite last night talking to some guys that, you know, range guys in a big department, and we're talking shop and they're talking about guns and stuff. And I'm like, hey, they asked me about tne and the product. I'm like, do you want a T and E? And they're like, well, we've been wanting to. All right, hey, let me text this guy. Hey, you might. 100. Absolutely. Bam. Now those, those guys are connected and they're going to do that and, and get their T and E and then. And it's not. I don't say that in a bragging way. I just say that that's just part of what our responsibility is. I mean, you should share the knowledge. And at the end of the day, I'm not trying to. I'm not their rep or I don't have any monetary, you know, thing with them. Just do what you want to do.

[Derek]

I mean, yeah, it's an interesting way of looking at things and I think it gets lost a lot of times when we're kind of going through our day to day. So unless you create these kinds of environments and you're exposed to that, I don't think people think like that very often. So what you guys are doing here is different in my mind.

[Brandon]

I mean, grandma here, that's like you said from, from guys coming in that aren't really in that.

[Scott Howell]

I mean, how long have you been associated with TPO? TTP way. I mean, 20 years.

[Brandon]

On the board.

[Scott Howell]

I mean, 2007.

[Brandon]

2007 on the board. But before that I was the.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Brandon]

And we've had this for, you know, running and grabbing punches or standing at the door, not letting people in.

[Scott Howell]

And we've had this conversation how to roll before. How much much money have you been paid by TTPA to teach?

[Brandon]

You know what? Honestly, it was probably two days.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. And that's it.

[Brandon]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

And that, and that's the thing.

[Brandon]

Time off.

[Scott Howell]

We're terrible business people because I don't know how much money I've made other people. Same way with Grant, how much money you've made other people in teaching and connecting and stuff like that. And, and that's fine with me. Like I said, you know, if I talk for TTPO and got my, my money from them and stuff. Yeah, but not a lot. Not a lot for some of these other guys. But that's to me is. That's my job. That's my passion to, to do this.

[Derek]

Especially as you're building this. I mean, I heard you say you're standing on the shoulders of giants and, or people that have, that have come before you, that did that, laid the groundwork. But now you have a responsibility to take it to the next level, which is what I, again, is kind of what I'm alluding to, kind of what I see happening down there. And if you Go at it with a, you know, with that attitude, like, if I'm not making any money doing this right now, or I can't calculate that tomorrow, I'm not going to do this, then this, this doesn't happen. I know how these things happen. It's volunteer work.

[Brandon]

That's what it is.

[Derek]

And it's a labor love and it's passion.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And so that, that's really cool to see. And you can feel it on people. And they're worn. You guys are worn out. I mean, you're doing this all day long. So you.

[Scott Howell]

But there's a family. Ness of that.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

I mean, it's cool when we all get together, there's like, hey, man, here's my, here's my brother. That's my other brother. That's, you know, and, and, you know, wives, you know, kids, and, and, and, and, and, and that's a cool thing. And, and just the network that we have, I mean, there's a text message. I don't participate in a lot because it's like, man, it's, there's so much. But there's times where, hey, we need this. And it's in bfe Texas. Well, so, and so in this part of Texas. All right, we're coming. And these are live operations, and that, to me is invaluable. So any chief out there is like, they don't know what. They don't know. They don't know that other guy can make a phone call and have this.

[Derek]

Product or person or.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, whatever sent to them, and it's for a live operation or whatever the case may be and that you can't put a value on that.

[Derek]

I don't, I don't think you can, but I understand there's bean counters and accountants and city councils and people that sign checks and, you know, there's data that needs to be measured and all that stuff. I don't think you can. Can do that here. And I. It's going to be people like you guys that are like, we get that part. They continue to do it. I just think, you know, if I'm a community, as a community member from the outside looking again, who am I? I'm just. I want this happening.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

I want guys to have opportunities to train. I've been out on the, on the firearms range or elsewhere.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

All kinds of things with all kinds of people from all different disciplines and whatever else. And I've seen all kinds of stuff. They need more training. You know, they need, they need more training. They, they want more Training, like, you have to make it fun for them. Right. They have to get something. They don't voluntolding or telling somebody. You know, they have to do stuff all the time. Like, you want people to have FOMO from an event like this and you know, like, I want to go and I see like, just in general, like in law enforcement, people aren't standing in line right now to become law enforcement officers. So this is one of those community building things. I think there's a ton of value. There's that no mayor, no chief, no anybody could, could. Can put a value on like this. Create people when they go back and they're talking about what they did and yeah, there's. There's shaking hands and you know, maybe having a drink at the bar or dinners and stuff like that. But I, I think when they go back and they're talking about it or people ask them, it drives the. Want to come to be a bigger part of this and drives people maybe into the teams.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

When they may not have been considering before because they recognize the value that exists there for them and it's kind of the club within the club. And I think that's fine. Like, I think you have to have that right.

[Scott Howell]

For sure.

[Derek]

That's. That's my 2 cents from the outside looking in in terms of the.

[Brandon]

We appreciate the compliments, man.

[Derek]

It's cool. And I appreciate you guys, you know, allowing me to be part of it.

[Brandon]

I'm honored and hopefully moving forward. Like you said, you working with Jake and these other instructors that are already teaching these firearms guys that, you know, come from the teams, you know, top level teams, top tier teams. Hopefully you.

[Derek]

You'll.

[Brandon]

We'll see you running classes with them here in Texas and running them in these regions and. And yeah, I think it'd be great, man. We'll see what's on the horizon.

[Derek]

Be the dream.

[Brandon]

I'd be awesome.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, you're always welcome in my region, Region 7, so it's the Dallas area. So, man, you're always welcome to come out to classes. Like I said, I would love for you to look at, hey, here's our basic SWAT school. Here's advanced SWAT school. To me, I'm not scared to let the curtain down. To see critique is. What do you see? How do you see this? You know, what's your perspective on things like that? That doesn't challenge me in a way of. Oh, man, I don't. It challenges me is like, how do we get better at this? So, man, you're. You're Always welcome. You know, you're part of the family now of coming out here, so welcome.

[Derek]

That means a ton, fellas.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Honestly.

[Scott Howell]

So that does.

[Derek]

Thank you so much.

[Scott Howell]

I think that's.

[Brandon]

Thank you. And I think we mentioned it at the get go, but you want to go ahead and, you know, plug your.

[Derek]

Oh, yeah.

[Brandon]

No, no, no, no. And they probably know about it. If there's one tpoa. They probably know about it, but you might as well. I think you mentioned it earlier, but go ahead and throw that out there.

[Scott Howell]

Because it's your livelihood. This is just some. This is training for us that we put out where we don't care about. You know, we got sponsors and do all this. This is just me and Graham and when it was Derek. This is a passion that we have. To me, this is just another outlet of training. And other people, they come in here, they have a business and they need to get food on the table. They need to. I mean, that's just a business. So, man, we want you to promote your stuff.

[Derek]

So I appreciate. I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, the. The gym is Red Dot fitness. We're pretty. We're pretty active on. On Instagram. You can find us there. Maybe we're for you, maybe we're not.

[Scott Howell]

So is that based on, like a red dot site?

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Brandon]

Okay.

[Derek]

Yeah, yeah. So that's that story. It's from, you know, somebody thought I was a little too intense, really, 20 years ago, and they said, you know, I was in a class. They're like. They said, man, it feels like when I come to your class, like, I got a red dot on my chest, like, you're trying to kill me. And I'm like, everybody got a laugh out of it. And I was like. I was like, that's interesting because that's kind of what I am doing. Like, I'm that focused, and I want you to be that focused on what it is that you're doing. I was like, yeah, that might. That might kind of work later on. I was. Didn't have a business at the time. I was working for somebody else. So it stuck. So, yeah, so again, it's, you know, maybe we're for you, maybe we're not, but we can certainly maybe put you in touch or put. Point you in the right direction of somebody that would be if. If we're not your flavor. And then the, The. The. The podcast is Iron Sights Podcast. Very active on Instagram and YouTube. And, you know, we're on all the platforms, the Apples and the Spotifys and stuff. We Drop a couple episodes a week. One is health and fitness and training related. We do those on Mondays, and then on. On Fridays, we'll drop something that's more from the. Like this. This. This. This genre, if you will.

[Brandon]

Okay.

[Derek]

And it's all kinds of folks on there, all kinds of interviews. I just like interviewing and talking with interesting people that I think can provide value. Yeah. So there's firearms instructors. There's. There's firefighters, there's cops, there's civilians instructors. You'll find second responder fires. I've had dispatchers. I've had. Yeah, we've talked about all kinds. All kinds of people. And so you might find something that's interesting there. If you scroll through there, I'm sure you'll see a couple of familiar faces.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, I've seen Prank on there. I've seen Matt or Jake.

[Derek]

Yep.

[Scott Howell]

So that's. That's how I first saw you. And then I saw you at the conference, walk in the hall, maybe Wednesday, and I was like, that looks familiar.

[Brandon]

Is that.

[Scott Howell]

Is that a dude I train with?

[Derek]

Is that.

[Scott Howell]

And then I saw you with Jake. I'm like, oh, now I remember. So, yeah, Very cool. Cool, man.

[Derek]

Well, thanks for letting me do that.

[Brandon]

Yeah, no, thanks for. Thanks for coming in and spending time with us. We took you out of the show and now it's over, so sorry.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, it's got an hour left, I guess, until now.

[Brandon]

It's over at 4.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, is it today? Oh, man, we just.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Brandon]

Welcome to the TTPOA conference.

[Scott Howell]

We. This is like the third year in a row I've been on the floor for three minutes.

[Brandon]

Yeah, totally get to miss.

[Scott Howell]

Okay. I've left. I missed all my free stuff every year.

[Brandon]

All right, cool. Well, thanks again, brother. It was nice to officially meet you and appreciate what you're doing.

[Scott Howell]

For sure.

[Brandon]

The podcast.

[Derek]

Thank you, guys.

[Scott Howell]

Train hard, stay safe.

[Brandon]

Train hard.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, brother.