TTPOA Train-Up's Series - Training SWAT Team in Practical Shooting

Summary

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TTPOA Podcast – Train-Up's Series: Training SWAT Team in Practical Shooting

Episode Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Derek and Brandon
Guests: Brian and Chauncey

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Episode Overview

This episode, number four in the TTPOA Train-Up series, focuses on the challenges and best practices of introducing practical and performance shooting skills into SWAT team training. The discussion centers on navigating generational differences, the value of competition-based drills, fostering buy-in among veteran and new team members, and the overall goal of evolving law enforcement firearms training culture to be more skill-oriented and adaptable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Practical Shooting in SWAT: Segregating Tactics and Skill (00:24–04:14)

• Main Idea: Implementing performance-based, practical shooting into SWAT training requires separating tactics from gun-handling skills.
• Quote:
  • “Take the tactics and push them all the way to the side. Shooting is shooting.” – Host (01:46)
• Approach: Focus range days strictly on shooting skills without letting arguments about tactics interfere.
• Failing as Learning:
  • “SWAT guys hate failing in front of their bros. But guess what? Get another chance at it. Let's go. You're gonna fail; hold yourself accountable.” – Brian (02:44–03:04)

2. Designing Training to Mirror SWAT Realities (02:16–03:20)

• Use short, objective drills that mimic real movements encountered in SWAT operations, such as moving through vision barriers.
• Strict Evaluation:
  • “We’re gonna grade this with a fine-tooth comb... we're gonna be super, super strict about this.” – Brian (02:35–02:44)

3. Old Guard vs. Young Bucks – Bridging Generational Gaps (04:14–07:07)

• Inter-team Dynamics: Tension often arises when younger team members return from advanced classes eager to share new methods, while experienced members may resist change.
• Enabling New Talent:
  • “There’s some old guys need to get the hell out of the way of the new guys in some areas. Argue with results, man.” – Brian (05:18)
  • Example: A younger team member named Martin impresses the team, leading to more openness and peer-to-peer teaching (05:39–06:45).
• Leadership Responsibility:
  • “If you’re an old guy on the team and you’re not letting those guys do that, you’re just doing a disservice to your team.” – Brandon (07:05)

4. Building Buy-In and Fostering Contribution (08:13–11:13)

• Getting Buy-In: Have team members identify perceived shooting deficiencies, then collaboratively develop drills to address those gaps.
• Leadership Style:
  • “It can’t be a dictatorship. There’s a time and place for that, but in training, keep it light enough so dudes can smoke and joke…it’s got to be enjoyable. It can’t be an ass whipping.” – Brian (09:02–09:26)
• Empowerment:
  • “If your young guys just leveled up your whole squad, you’re winning as a TL (team leader), dude.” – Chauncey (10:24–10:38)
• Admitting Improvement:
  • “If it’s better, admit it. Admit it. You’re only as good as the people that work for you.” – Chauncey (11:04–11:13)

5. Measuring and Validating New Approaches (11:13–14:56)

• Performance Metrics: Concrete results—teams should allow new approaches to be tested and adopted if they demonstrably improve performance.
• Actionable Advice:
  • “Go to these classes, but don’t just go and then expect a parade. Work on that stuff, present it, polish it up, and then share it back.” – Brandon (12:46–13:09)
• Critical Reflection:
  • “We all know you better know your s*** when you start teaching because it’s going to get you better.” – Brandon (13:03)
• Team Learning: Encourage attendees from external classes to relay not just content but also critical assessments of training value (13:28–13:55).

6. Role of Team Leaders and Facilitators (14:56–16:39)

• Facilitation: Leaders should create environments where beneficial ideas are enabled and not stifled, even if it challenges veterans’ egos.
• Quote:
  • “You’ve absolutely got to be a facilitator for your guys…If somebody brings something to the table that can benefit us, then facilitate that.” – Brian (15:00–15:23)
• Sense of Progression: Recognize the natural timeline of passing the torch as older members approach retirement or step back (16:08–16:29).

7. Changing the Culture & Law Enforcement Shooting Paradigms (17:29–25:47)

• Outside Instructors’ Impact: Bringing in respected instructors can catalyze buy-in and present the same concepts in a new way.
• Cultural Momentum:
  • “Just keep freaking grinding, man… it is catching on.” – Brian (22:05)
  • TTPOA conferences now feature higher caliber, skill-focused instructors compared to previous years (22:41–23:38).
• Encouraging Persistence:
  • “Keep pushing. Eventually you'll win out. My advice: you keep working on you to get better and then let the rest work out.” – Brandon (24:29–24:49)
• The Necessity of Self-Motivation:
  • “If you want to get good at shooting a gun, it’s a selfish ass thing. You got to be selfish about it.” – Brian (24:50–24:57)
  • Use resources (books, online, peers) and maintain a critical, striving mindset.

8. Continuous Learning and Sharing (25:23–26:58)

• Embrace continued education, professional shooter visits, and peer exchange, recognizing that not all knowledge must come from in-house.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Accountability and Culture Shift:
  “It’s a slow grind, man. But just don’t stop.” – Brian (21:15)

• On Old vs. New Approaches:
  “Back up 18, 20 years ago, it was the freaking PPC bullshit. Rinse and repeat…when I compare that to what’s out there today, man, it is night and day.” – Brian (23:15–23:46)

• On Leadership and Humility:
  “Be a leader and listen to your people. Give them the option to show you. And if it’s better, admit it.” – Chauncey (11:00–11:04)

• On Team Growth:
  “If you’ve got a group of guys that leveled up the whole squad, you’re winning.” – Chauncey (10:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introducing the topic of practical shooting in SWAT: 00:24–01:46
• Competition and accountability in shooting drills: 01:57–03:05
• Generational challenges—old heads vs. young bucks: 04:14–07:07
• Building buy-in and fostering a collaborative training environment: 08:13–11:13
• Proving out new training approaches and learning from classes: 11:13–14:56
• Facilitator role of team leaders: 14:56–16:39
• Changing law enforcement shooting culture: 17:29–25:47
• Encouragement for continuous improvement and use of modern resources: 25:23–26:58

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Tone and Language Style

The episode maintains a candid, direct, and at times humorous tone, reflecting the dynamic camaraderie of SWAT culture and the hosts’ desire to see actionable progress in law enforcement firearms training.

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Summary Takeaway

The episode delivers a pragmatic roadmap for integrating practical shooting standards into SWAT team training by supporting newer members, measuring results objectively, enabling leadership to act as facilitators, and embracing both internal improvements and external instruction. The core message: keep striving, be open to growth, and never stop pushing the performance standard—for yourself and the team.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome to the TTPOA podcast.

[B]

A podcast for SWAT officers, military and all first responders.

[A]

We'll be talking training, tactics and leadership with the best subject matter experts around. Here are your hosts, Derek.

[B]

Derek.

[A]

And Brandon. And Brandon. Yeah. I keep teasing the new podcast host. He couldn't be here tonight, he had some other stuff. So hopefully we get him, you know, soon because you're probably tired of just hearing my dumbass talk, but sorry, this is what you're stuck with. So another episode. Now this is number four in the TTBOA Train up with Brian and Chauncey or Chansey. So this one's going to be, I think, one of those ones where everybody's going to relate to if you're on a SWAT team. So we're going to talk about team training. How do you implement the practical side performance side of shooting with. You have the old heads, the keeper of the knowledge and keeper the gate on your team. And then you have these young bucks come in and they went to one of yalls classes and they want to bring this shit back or whatever the case may be. They come to the Region 7 and they get all this badass training from all these high end guys that I bring in for shooting and they want to bring it back to their team, team, all that kind of stuff. So how do we integrate this into the team environment and not go to fisticuffs?

[B]

Bring the competition side of it too. Bring it totally objective, subjective. Take the tactics and push them all the way to the side so the.

[A]

Tactics on this 100 separate them. Because it's shooting is shooting.

[B]

Yeah, do that. And then guess what? It's a can or can't thing. Well, how many SWAT guys are competitive?

[A]

All of them. Or at least they claim they are.

[B]

Right. And if they're not, then they're probably not in the right spot. Yeah, right. We got some peacocking going on.

[A]

No, for sure.

[B]

Get out there and work at it. I would argue put short drills together, short, short movements, short things that mimic the things that you do as a SWAT guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Put the shooting to it. Like vision barriers. Huge deal. Right, okay. Put up vision barriers because that's what you deal with whenever you're going through moving through structures, stuff like that. Set those up, be able to move through and be able to shoot. And guess what? We're going to grade this. Okay. We're going to get the fine tooth comb out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's not a matter of. Okay, well just. I put two on in just any old place. Yeah, we're going to be super, super strict about this, as I think it always should be.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. If you do that, it's a can and can't. Well, now what. What do SWAT guys hate more than anything? They don't. You're granny. Because you're like. They hate failing in front of their bros. Right.

[A]

Losing in front of them.

[B]

Yeah. Well, guess what? Get another chance at it. Let's go. Yeah. Because you, I mean, we're going to fail.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It goes back to that. You're going to fail it in this environment. Hey, let's go. Hold yourself accountable. If you can't hold yourself accountable. This is a team guy. Come on. When it's team training day. Okay, that's great. You ought to be able to go out there and execute. But are your individual skills leading up to all this? Guess what, dude, that's on you.

[C]

Yeah, I think it determined. I mean, I mean, it depends on what were you trying to get out of training that day? Like, what are you training if you're. If, if it's a firearms training day. Right. However you structure it with your team, if you have like, okay, we have a range day twice a month or once a month or once a week, whatever. Yeah. Then it needs to be a range day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is there a time and place to, to, to work on tactics with live fire? Yes. 100%. 1,000%. Right. But if it's a dedicated range day, then let it be, Let it be about the shooting and don't let the tactics creep in and people start arguing about, well, I would have done this or I would have been in this position. So I wouldn't have been in that position to see that. Now like, like Chancellor says, you either can or you can't.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if the problem requires bullets to solve it, can you put bullets where you want them to go on there? However you got to that position be damned.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a. I was fortunate with, with our team of being one of the senior guys on the team. And now I'm the senior guy on the team.

[C]

The old man.

[A]

Yeah. So when I started kind of introducing this to our team, I wasn't the keeper of the, of the, of the gate of, okay, you got to go through me to get this shooting approved. Because I got about it first. I was one that was. Started to push that along with a few other guys that, that were really. A lot of. Some of the. They were actually younger guys. So it was, it was kind of a neat deal because it was kind of the younger guy and the old guy. So for, for me it wasn't hard but I see other guys because guys dme they talk to me on the side or at advanced swat different things or at the conference man, hey man, I want the young guys with the team or I'm, I'm right here. We got old guys on the team that they just don't, they just believe this, this is just you know, gamer and stuff like that. So what's your, what's your thoughts on that man?

[B]

You mentioned old guys versus new guys. Well, there's some old guys need to get the hell out of the way of the new guys. Yeah. In some areas.

[C]

No.

[B]

And that's those, those years are past me. Yeah. But when from the outside looking in and I'm, and I'm arguing, I'm probably guilty of it too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you got some young freaking hard charging dude that comes in there and he can get after it.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Argue with results man.

[A]

No, you, you, you can't get with the program. It's been, it's been fun because we have a guy on our team, I guess he's about two years on, on our team and came in and had the, had a really high ability to shoot.

[B]

And then about Martin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Drop his name. Yeah. Cat can run a gun.

[A]

Yeah, he, he can, he can, can run a gun. And, and it's been really neat this last almost year to see his transformation into, really pouring into. I'm going to get on this train of shooting and I'm going, I'm going to do this and to see the guys really. Because he's one of the young guys and so he can, I'm the old guy. So sometimes they're like I got to listen to Brandon. I got to, you know, whatever. But you got another guy in there that's coming in and doing some amazing and to see the whole like team look and go wow, okay, what do you tell us? Show us. And I'm like dude, I want you to teach. Like he's teaching, he's teaching tomorrow at the bathroom.

[C]

Tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah, he's out there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I talked to PV about it. He said he's going to bring someone out. I was guessing that's who it was.

[A]

So I got those two and, and, and PB was another one of those guys that showed a lot of just ability young and, and, and jumped into these roles and, and pushed himself and trained himself and I think that's, that's the kind of young guys if you're an old guy on the team and you're not letting those guys do that. You're.

[B]

That's a disservice to your team.

[A]

You're just a.

[B]

As long as they're willing to put the work in and get out there and do it and be at the front of this thing, do it.

[A]

And there's stage. I get it. There's stages where you gotta go, okay, let me see this guy. Give him some responsibility and let him mess it up on his own or step up on his own. Or if he does mess up, talk to him about it. Let him know, hey, here's what are critique guys. Like, hey, man, you got the ability. But now here's how we present it a little bit differently or whatever the case may be. And I think that's where we do a disservice for, for these young guys that are really putting in the effort. Like a guy DM me the other day, man, hey. And I felt bad because it went like two weeks unnoticed, but it was in like a hidden deal. I never checked that. But he was asking me about some competition stuff like he wants to get involved and he's got some older guys that are on the team that don't want to do it. I'm like, man, I'll help you out. That's what we should do. Man, it just drives me crazy with, with that. So, yeah, going back. So what, what would you. What would be Yalls recommendation to continue to, you know, flourish that or like in a team environment. What's that look like? If you're trying to introduce it to your team, how would you go about doing that?

[B]

Besides.

[A]

Besides just saying, hey, now we're going to do this. Like, how do you. How do you continue to further that conversation and stuff?

[B]

If it comes down to the shooting side of it, then I would argue that you could go out there and ask people, okay, what do you. What do you think is a deficiency? Okay. In what aspect? And get them to spell that out to you what they think that is. Okay. Yeah. Well, if you've got a practical frame of mind and approach to this stuff, then. Okay, can you go in frame shooting, quote drills?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Around what they think the deficiency is. It doesn't take a whole lot of damn thought to be able to be able to put that together. Then go out there and work on those things and see if that doesn't polish and that doesn't. Doesn't round things out to do all that. Flesh it out. Sure, but go and. But that's a, that's a part of getting buy in from these people too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they have to have some input.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. It can't be like a dictatorship.

[A]

No.

[B]

I mean, if we've all done times where, okay, this person says, this is what we're going to do, and by God, there's no deviation from that. There's a time and place for that. That. I get it. Yeah. You know, but whenever it comes down to going out there and training, you want the attitude to be accountable. Yes. Everybody's accountable here. We've got to work hard. But you've also want to keep it light enough to where dudes can smoke and joke a little bit. And it's, it's got to be enjoyable. It can't be an ass whipping.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And one thing I would argue that it does not need to be is a smoke session for pt. Yeah. This isn't about kettlebell swings. And let's see who's, you know, who's the CrossFit Friggin Open champion dude. Doing this like that ain't. That ain't about anyone about, man.

[C]

I think the biggest thing too is as a tl, Right. Or an old head or whatever you want to call it. You got a leadership role. And part of being a leader is listening to your people and making them comfortable enough in certain settings, obviously. Because sometimes you got to put that TL hat on. You're like, this is what we're doing. Right.

[A]

Period. Yeah. There is those times.

[C]

But when it comes to training, you got young dudes that are out there pushing it and seeking training on their own and bringing new concepts and approaches and ideas.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think as a TL, you should @ minimum give them the opportunity to present that and, and see. Okay. Is it better?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if it's better, here's the deal. If you're a TL and you got a group of guys underneath you that have been underneath you for two, three, four years and they just leveled up your whole squad. You're winning as a TL dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like you're doing the right thing. And that's where you, that's where you slowly start to pass the torch.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and you, you empower these guys to continue to push the envelope.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And to do things that you weren't taught because it wasn't spoken of 10, 12, 15 years ago.

[A]

No, it was.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so be, be a leader and listen to your people.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And give them, give them the option to show you. And if it's better, admit it. Admit it.

[B]

You're only as good as the People that work for you.

[A]

Yeah, you know, no, for sure. And I think too like the, the, the thing with shooting is, is there's a metrics that you can definitely entertain world.

[B]

That's what you live in.

[A]

If all three of us are out there and, and Brian's trying to convince me and you of what he's just went to this school and it's, he wants to change something and he's been working on it and he comes out and smokes our ass. All right.

[B]

Better get the changes. Oh, okay.

[C]

So, yeah, teach me.

[A]

What are you doing, dude? Right, like what's going on? And, and I think that's, that's to me, my, my biggest like advice to guys that are trying to change some stuff on their team is that first of all you have to go out and work on your own and you have to put the work into like, yes, you go to, go to these classes, but don't just go to classes and. Because I will tell you this guys are going to tell you just went to that class, go that class, work on that stuff for a little while, present it, bring it back, start talking. Yeah. Polish it up because I think that's good. Like, I always ask the guys because I have a little different. I have a little different than a lot of the guys do. Like, I'm, I'm heavily involved with the ttpoa, so there's so many guys that I bring. So the guys that are going to these classes on my team, I know what these guys are teaching. I know if they go to your class, I know what they're teaching. So I know. Hey, come back. Hey. What did you take out of their class? Well, I really like this, this and this. Okay, well, teach our guys and our guys work on the practical side of shooting, performance out of shooting. So it's not a new thing for us. But I want them to start working on their skill of teaching and, and comprehending because, man, we all know you better know your. When you start teaching because it's going to get you better.

[C]

How many times have people gone to class though? And this really irks me because like, chance, you'll go to a class or I'll go to a class or I'll, I'll talk to somebody or get something and vice versa or whatever. Even with you, we bounce ideas off each other with that, that tier one text group and stuff, you know. But how many times have guys gone to class and then they come back and you're like, what you learn? And they're like, I was all right.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. What does that mean?

[B]

Like, they stole money.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, dude, like, you. You're bringing nothing to the team.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, you're bringing nothing to better. Like, whether we sent you or you went on your own, you took time away from the team or the we. The team sent you.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you come back with now. And that may be the case sometimes that may be true. Like, they're. But try, try to bring something back or just even if it's like, that was a waste of time, like, I recommend not sending anybody to. That. That's. That's beneficial.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's better than Right. Keep sending guys.

[B]

Three of us. How many times have we gone to classes? We're looking back where we're at now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You look back, you're like, damn, I wish I had that money. Yeah. All kinds of new, right? I mean, that's part of learning. That's part of growing, you know?

[A]

But I think too, like, I do also look at it as the missed shots. Like, I learned a lot from my missed shots. Yeah. I learned a lot from things like. Okay, well, yeah, I bought off on that. That now, knowing what I know now, it's, it's, it's a little bit different. But I think too, the whole, you, you have to, you have to have buy in. But it's not the whole team that you got to sell yourself to, man. It's just, you got to, you got to represent yourself in a way that if you get told no the first time, just keep working on what you're doing, refine it. Yeah. And eventually you're going to be one of the guys that's making these decisions eventually on the team.

[B]

There's, there's so much of it. If you're in the leadership role on the team, you got to be a facilitator.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You have absolutely got to be a facilitator for your guys. Okay. And if you're, if you're the, like one of the firearms guys, then. Okay, you're facilitating training. You're getting things going, the whole nine yards. You're giving, giving those things, you know, giving them stuff to work on, be it the practical side. Yeah. Hopefully to build them up. If somebody brings something to the table and it's an inarguable thing, that this can benefit us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Then facilitate that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Maybe that's where the leadership, you come in and you got the Naysa, you got. Let's say you got the old guy that's there, that he's over here grumbling the whole nine yards. How it's framed to that person may make a difference. Oh, yeah. You may have to tell them to get your shit together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And get with the program.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe it was. Hopefully not. But that's the case. Then. Okay. You get with it. Well, you're facilitating. Well, now what are you doing? Empowering this guy that is working hard because. Because this young guy may be over here out working all these old heads.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's okay.

[B]

Yeah. Guess. And now what. What happens with the old heads? They're over here, butt hurt. You're like, damn, this. This young cat's making me look.

[A]

Making me look bad.

[B]

Well, you better step it up.

[A]

No way, you know, or get off the team. Yeah, just.

[C]

And there's nothing wrong with that.

[A]

No, there's. There's absolutely every. I know one day my light of. My internal light of doing this job or SWAT is going to be like, you know what?

[C]

It's time for me to step away.

[A]

And I can. I can feel it in me. I can feel it starting to dwindle a little bit just because of. Of age and just.

[C]

And life.

[A]

Yeah, life. I'm like, man, I've been doing this job for 26 years and almost 20 on SWAT. Like, I get it. There's a shelf life for me, and I understand that.

[B]

No shame in that. No.

[A]

And I get that. And. And I think that's where. But the. The thing too, though, with the shooting part of it is that it's. If you continue to train, it's hard. It's hard to lose that until you get really. Really.

[B]

Yeah. Up in age, you move too well, but you. Your booger hook still works.

[A]

Exactly. And I think that's where it's like, man, like, when I start seeing that go, that's when I'm really like, okay, dude, I need to be done with this stuff. But to me, the journey that I'm on, I know that's not going to happen, barring some physical injury or, you know, something like that, because what I'm doing to. To better myself in that and stuff. So. Anything else for. For changing the culture of the. Of the team and trying to. And I think the other thing I want to add this is, is that invite or pay instructors to come out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

100 legit instructors that are going to show the wow that you talked about.

[B]

Yep. You've got. You got to be able to show people some wow. And you've also. You got to think, too, though, that if you, let's say you got a guy on the team that's, that's expressing or, you know, going saying, hey, we need to go about it a certain way. And you get, you get some pushback whenever you bring somebody in.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That's a fresh perspective that they don't know. And many of the same things are brought about. Maybe it's, maybe it's presented just a little bit differently. And now everybody all of a sudden has jumped on that bandwagon and it's full steam ahead.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now what have you got out of it?

[A]

Oh, it's.

[B]

Now you got your buy in.

[A]

Oh, it's huge.

[B]

Because I think you've probably seen it on the team that we're. Oh, yeah, this is great. And you're like, are you kidding me, man? Like, this, this is the same. Like, what are you. Not that it's bad, but like, we talking about that shit six months ago. And they're like, man, it's the greatest damn thing since pockets on a shirt. Come on, man.

[A]

Oh, it drives me crazy. Like, I'm like, okay, well good. At least you got it.

[B]

Yep. And you know what? Just keep pouring gas on it. Let's go, guys. Let's go. Spiel.

[A]

And I think too, that's, that's one of the big benefits of, of our association is we're so big on training and so big on bringing everybody in. And you go to the conference and you want to go take a class from this guy, and the next day a class from this guy, and you, your buddies go with you on your team, they're going to start having buy in because they're going to see that guy that you just went, you know, oh, oh, shit. Now you're getting in numbers and, and you're adding that. Or you go, yeah, like, for that. I think that's why it's been so successful for, for, for our team in the position that I'm in. Because, man, our whole team is trained with pretty much everybody that's out there. That's, that's anybody in the shooting world. If they haven't, they're one step away from it because we brought it back and we've shown them and I think that's good. Like, we start our guys off in our basic swat, you know, firearms training. I mean, we're doing what we talked about, man. What anybody that listens to this podcast, that's what we've been doing. So those guys just, they just know it. And I'm excited for the foundation of what our Team is for shooting because, man, their foundation is.

[B]

Is.

[A]

Is. Is solid. They just got it. Now it's up on. It's up to them just like anything else to continue to work on that. Yeah.

[C]

You guys are doing it right there. Right. Because who's laying the foundation? Yeah, you are. Like, TLS are. The senior guys are laying the foundation, which is empowering the young guys who are coming up to continue to push the envelope.

[A]

Yeah. And it took a while for me, like, to. To totally, like. It's a hard trans. It's a. It's a hard thing, especially with new team. I. I think that's probably a good segment to do into another TTPO train up is like, T2TL stuff and what that looks like. Because it's hard when you first get it, because then you're like, I got all these responsibilities and this. And you're trying to learn it. And then once you're there for a while, you're like, yeah, I made these mistakes. Now I need to. I need to try something else. I need to be that silk and sandpaper.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because it's easy to be the sandpaper, especially on swat, man. It's real easy. And I think there's probably more times where sandpaper is easier because we all have a camaraderie. Yeah. And we can talk more to each other. And it's kind of like, man, if you're not getting paid. Fun of like, I. No one likes me then, you know, I was talking.

[B]

And your chops, they probably dislike you.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's one of those deals. But y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Y' all get what I'm. What I'm talking about. Anyway, one more thing before we leave. So how do we. How do we. And we talk about that in our tier one deal. How do we change the culture of this law enforcement just shooting. How do we change that culture, man?

[B]

It's a slow grind, man. But just don't stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I know that sounds like easy. Easier said than done. Don't stop. Because we can see it in our department. We can see it from classes that we teach inside here. We could see it from guys at the conference. Whenever we're down there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Look up. And guys are. I mean, they're hungry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, obviously, guys are paying out of pocket or other department. Like it, for instance, at the conference. Because we get. I mean, you talk about the mixed bag. Like, there's guys from all over. I mean, out of state.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And guys are hungry for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they. They see okay, wait, there is. There's a whole nother level to this. You know, we got. There's. There's lots of guys out there. Like the group, as far as the cops go, the tier one guys, the text thread. Lots of other quality trainers out there that are pushing the envelope, trying to get people better. Don't stop, because it is catching on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, man, it absolutely is. Just keep freaking grinding, man.

[A]

For sure. I. I've seen a huge uptick in just. What I've seen on my side of just ttpoa of just guys going to classes.

[B]

Just the last three years.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Specifically the last year.

[A]

It's been huge, man. And that's exciting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I look about. Okay. If we gain 10 each year, roughly. You know what that. I'm like, that's a huge growth of just guys. The switches coming on or people doing things. I mean, I get hit up a lot about doing things.

[B]

If you look at. If you look. I mean, because. Been going to the. We've been going to the TTPO conference for what, 20 years. Okay. We turned 40 last year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, if you look. If you look at the. At the classes that are being offered and the ability of the people that are teaching.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, they're. I mean, they're just pure D. Ability as far as skill. Yeah. To, you know, to be able to run a gun and. And. And the teaching side of it. Yeah. It has just grown exponentially of late. I mean, we're talking about. It is. It is a whole new ball game whenever you go out there.

[C]

That's a different world for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Going. I mean, back up 18, 20 years ago, and it was the freaking PPC bullshit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rinse and repeat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we thought, man, this is great.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Because somebody had some sort of a. Some sort of a title.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm using heavy duty air quotes and I mean, they couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle with any kind of speed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They could sit there and, you know, and it. When I compare that to what. What. What's out there today, man, it is. It is night and day.

[A]

Yeah. I'm excited for. I mean, I think the easiest way.

[C]

To keep changing the culture is to. To continue to just push forward and show them that there's better ways out there. You know, guys don't want to change. And we run in it. We run into it, too, where, you know, we will get on the. Like, we'll. We'll. We'll tell people, let's go to the range. Like, you do it your way, we'll do it our way.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, we'll, we'll put pen to paper or we'll put it to paint or whatever. We'll go sims. Like, we'll, we'll do it however you want to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And we've been in positions where we've shown people a better, faster way of doing things.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And they're still like, go to crawfish.

[B]

Nah.

[C]

Like, nah. And if that's you and you're running into that, keep pushing. Yeah. Just keep doing that. Eventually, eventually you'll win out.

[A]

No. And I think for me, my, my advice would be is you keep working on you to get better and then let the other. Just work out.

[B]

It will.

[A]

The way it works out.

[B]

To your point, this is. If you, if you want to get good at shooting a gun, it's a selfish ass thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You got to be selfish about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That doesn't mean that whenever the, whenever the situation's right for you to give it to everybody else, you need to be selfish. Be critical of yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Find you somebody to train with, whatever the case may be, albeit taking videos, setting it up with your phone, whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Find a buddy that's, that's, that's eager and wants to learn too. And go out there and be critical.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I mean, all the resources are there, man. Like, it's out there. It's. I mean, there's. You ain't got to pay for it. Like, come on.

[A]

I mean, I, I just, I was rereading Ben's book the other day on the plane. I'm like, damn, okay. Yeah, I forgot about that. Or I mean, you're reading a book, you're like, okay, so now I'm going to read this book. I know how to apply it. I know what I'm looking for. I mean, like I said, you can go watch YouTube and you can see prank and stuff. You can see, you know, Ben puts.

[C]

Out classes, like Knowners.

[A]

All this stuff out there.

[C]

I mean, you want to go to a big class, just pull it up on your phone.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And on the range.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. No, he, he pisses a lot of people off.

[B]

No, I mean, I say that.

[A]

No in a good way.

[B]

That's totally in a good way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he's.

[C]

It's out there, man. It's for free. For free.

[A]

And then. And there's guys on Instagram that will be glad to, to talk with you and stuff like that. Like, I'm excited. I got two new Shooters coming in this year. Professional shooters. And I know you're going to be. Yeah. Yeah, baby.

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

Go.

[B]

Shoot. I want some vision.

[C]

Focus.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

From onesie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sean Griffith. That bearded dude could run the. Out of a gun. I'm looking forward to it, man. Let's go.

[A]

So I'm, like, always bringing in guys that I want to. I want to learn from and I want to see. Okay, what are they doing? And I know there's going to be a lot of things that are just building on it, but they present it differently or they see it differently. And so, I mean, I talk with y', all, and I see y' all presenting things in a little different way than I heard before. I'm like, oh, okay, that. That makes sense. Never thought about it that way, but you're saying the same thing. It's just different words or chancy isms and stuff like that, and I think that's a good thing.

[B]

And.

[A]

And.

[C]

And.

[A]

And so in. Anyway, for what. For what it's worth, so. All right, guys. Anything else we want to add to that?

[B]

Oh, man. It's good. We appreciate you, man.

[A]

Anytime.

[B]

Thank you for what you do, for keeping this damn train and trucking. We're gonna. We're gonna keep shoveling coal and doing everything we can to move. Keep moving the needle.

[A]

I. I know y' all will, and I appreciate what y' all do and how. How easy are to work with. You're not divas. I know y' all look like divas.

[C]

And try not to be, but y'.

[A]

All don't act like divas.

[C]

Never about us, man.

[A]

Y' all are pretty like divas and stuff, like Beyonce.

[B]

We are sitting on the casting couch.

[A]

Well, I'm glad you got to come to my home, eat some dinner, drink some whiskey.

[C]

It was awesome, man. Thank you.

[A]

Appreciate y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Y' all doing that.

[B]

Keep the wife around. She's. She threw down in the kitchen, man. Great.

[A]

Yeah, she does. She does do a good job. So glad I got you a hotel for the night. That way you're not having to bust back from other side of the west Texas to hear every weekend.

[C]

So we're sharing a room, by the way, if anybody's wondering. All right.

[A]

Yeah, right. I'll leave that for.

[B]

We could give you a description that would probably make some people blush, but I ain't gonna.

[A]

So. All right. Hey, I really appreciate y' all taking yalls time out to. To do this train up series and stuff like that, so. All right, boys. Y' all and girls, And y' all go out there, train hard and keep on shooting and doing whatever else. Shooting paper targets. Get after it and still get after it, boys.

[B]

Give it hell, but easy.

[A]

That's right.