Andrew Isker: Building a Christian Refuge to Fight Wokeness, Transgenderism, and Paganism

Summary

The Tucker Carlson Show

Episode: Andrew Isker: Building a Christian Refuge to Fight Wokeness, Transgenderism, and Paganism
Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Tucker Carlson Show, host Tucker Carlson engages in an in-depth conversation with Andrew Isker, a devoted Christian, father of six, and the driving force behind a significant real estate venture aimed at creating a Christian haven in Tennessee. The discussion delves into Andrew's motivations, the current socio-political climate affecting Christians, and his vision for fostering a community that upholds traditional Christian values.

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Andrew Isker's Background and Motivation

[00:00-03:38]
Tucker Carlson opens the discussion by addressing Andrew's reputation, highlighting his law-abiding nature as a married man with six children. Carlson contrasts Andrew's approach with other controversial figures who challenge governmental systems, emphasizing that Andrew's actions are grounded in establishing a new community rather than confrontational activism.

Andrew Isker reveals his roots in Waseca, Minnesota, a town with deep familial ties spanning six generations. [03:03] He shares the emotional weight of leaving his hometown, where his ancestors are buried, due to unsettling changes in state legislation post the 2022 elections. The shift in Minnesota's political landscape, particularly under Governor Tim Walz, prompted Andrew to seek a safer environment for his family.

Andrew [04:45]: "After the 2022 election where the Democrats took control of the state senate, Tim Walz passed a full abortion allowance bill even up to birth... I just went there and said... God is not mocked."

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Impact of Minnesota's Legislation on Christians

[03:38-08:20]
Andrew details Minnesota's controversial legislative changes, including expansive abortion laws and trans rights bills that threaten parental custody over children's welfare. He shares a personal anecdote about his son, a 12-year-old with autism, expressing fears that such laws could result in state intervention against his parental rights.

Andrew [05:20]: "My oldest son... they could be putting him in a dress and calling him a girl's name, and I would have no idea. Then when I oppose it, Boom. CPS comes and takes him away."

These policies, Andrew argues, create an environment where raising a family becomes untenable for devout Christians, driving them to leave their ancestral homes in search of more accommodating states.

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Building a Christian Community in Tennessee

[08:20-25:00]
Transitioning to his initiative, Andrew introduces the Highland Rim Project under the Ridge Runner company, aimed at developing a Christian-centric community in Tennessee. Unlike typical suburban subdivisions characterized by impersonal layouts and amenities, this project emphasizes creating a close-knit, faith-based environment where families can thrive together.

Andrew [80:16]: "Imagine a community where there's a church at the center, and families from all over the country come together to build something beautiful, grounded in shared values."

This endeavor seeks to replicate the American small-town experience, fostering connections and mutual support among like-minded individuals who wish to escape the increasingly hostile environments of "blue states."

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Critique of Modern Evangelicalism and Dispensationalism

[25:00-45:44]
A significant portion of the conversation critiques the evolution of evangelical Christianity, especially the adoption of dispensationalist theology. Andrew laments that contemporary evangelicals have shifted from a faith rooted in deep theological understanding to a more superficial, conversion-focused approach.

Andrew [41:49]: "If we just water it down a little bit more, make it more palatable to people, get more people in the seats, that's the metric of success."

He argues that this dilution has led to a disconnect between genuine Christian teachings and modern church practices, making it challenging to address critical issues like homosexuality and abortion without backlash. This, in turn, fosters an environment where Christians feel marginalized and misunderstood within their own communities.

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Theological Discussions: Old vs. New Testament Perspectives

[45:44-75:17]
Andrew delves into the theological underpinnings of his beliefs, emphasizing the importance of adhering to the Bible's teachings without compromising on controversial issues. He contrasts the Old Testament's stringent laws with the New Testament's message of unity and redemption through Jesus Christ.

Andrew [52:11]: "Most atheists would agree that murder is wrong, but without a divine authority, they have no objective basis for that morality."

The discussion highlights the challenges atheists face in grounding their moral compass without religious tenets and underscores the perceived moral clarity that Christianity provides. Andrew also touches upon the historical context of dispensationalism, its origins, and its impact on contemporary Christian thought.

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Predictions and Future Outlook

[75:17-89:56]
Looking ahead, Andrew predicts an intensification of the conflict between conservative Christians and progressive forces. He foresees increased persecution of Christians in liberal states and anticipates that initiatives like the Highland Rim Project will become essential for safeguarding Christian values and communities.

Andrew [86:50]: "Cross Joseph Evangelicals need to band together to leave places where they have no protection, where people like Tim Walz... They want to have a foil like the whole thing on Christian nationalism."

Andrew remains optimistic, believing that a resurgence of traditional evangelical Christianity will restore America's foundational values and ensure a prosperous future for its Christian communities.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Tucker Carlson acknowledging the depth of Andrew's commitment and the emotional resilience required to embark on such a transformative project. Both parties express mutual respect, highlighting the importance of faith-driven initiatives in shaping America's socio-cultural landscape.

Andrew Isker's vision for a Christian refuge in Tennessee serves as a testament to the ongoing struggle between progressive policies and traditional values. Through thoughtful discourse and unwavering dedication, the episode sheds light on the broader implications of legislative changes on grassroots communities and the measures taken to preserve cultural and religious identities.

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew [05:20]: "My oldest son... they could be putting him in a dress and calling him a girl's name, and I would have no idea. Then when I oppose it, Boom. CPS comes and takes him away."

• Andrew [25:00]: "Most atheists would agree that murder is wrong, but without a divine authority, they have no objective basis for that morality."

• Andrew [80:16]: "Imagine a community where there's a church at the center, and families from all over the country come together to build something beautiful, grounded in shared values."

• Andrew [86:50]: "Cross Joseph Evangelicals need to band together to leave places where they have no protection, where people like Tim Walz... They want to have a foil like the whole thing on Christian nationalism."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the conversation between Tucker Carlson and Andrew Isker, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the critical issues discussed and the envisioned solutions proposed by Andrew in response to the challenges faced by modern Christians.

Transcript

[Tucker Carlson]

So Andrew, thank you for doing this. So you're so controversial.

[Andrew]

I love that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. Married man with six kids who pays his taxes. You're so controversial. Very controversial would be not paying your credit card bill and putting the banks out of business, convincing other people to do the same, not paying your federal taxes, forcing the US Government to pay attention to its own citizens. You're doing none of that. So as far as I'm concerned, you're a non controversial, law abiding man. But you are doing one thing that's pretty wild, which is participating in the building of a new town. It sounds almost like a Christian utopian experiment in Tennessee, but I don't really know. Can you tell me what it is and why you're doing it?

[Andrew]

Yeah, so it's, it's not quite that.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's not the Oneida community.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, we're not, we're not building, you know, some kind of Anabaptist community.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay. You're not the shakers.

[Andrew]

No, no, really, it's, you know, it's, it's a company, you know, Ridge Runner is, is purchasing land and sort of facilitating a lot of things. Like you're familiar with the big sort where people are, are leaving, you know, blue states to go to red states and things like that, where it, it's, it's along those lines where, where people are leaving. Like I left Minnesota, very blue state. Everyone's now familiar with our governor in that state, Tim Walls.

[Tucker Carlson]

Don't hire him to babysit.

[Andrew]

No, I would not. He would be the last person. Yes, I think so. And, and you know, so we wanted to leave there. Many people want to leave places like that. My, my friend CJ Left California, Gavin Newsom state to come to Tennessee and, and so it's a platform to be able to draw all of your friends together. It's like, well, we can kind of live anywhere. Why don't we all live in the same kind of place and bring our families, bring our businesses and build things together. So it's sort of a platform for drawing people that are spread out all throughout the country and can leave these places that are not great living in, Living in large cities or suburbs where you're just totally disconnected and, and you know, really isolated, alienated from, from normal life and you can, you can have the American small town experience once again.

[Tucker Carlson]

So sad to hear you say that about Minnesota as, as a Scandinavian. I always thought of it was told, you know, it's like where all the Swedes are and it's kind of, you know, lots of saunas and you know, red cheek children and it's clean and reasonable, you know.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Not anymore. Why did you leave there?

[Andrew]

You know, for us it was.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are you from there?

[Andrew]

I'm from there, yep. Born and raised in, in Waseca, Minnesota. My, my children were the sixth generation of our family that lived in that town.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh gosh.

[Andrew]

And in, in the town. In that town, yeah. In, in the town of, of Waseca.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are your ancestors buried there?

[Andrew]

Yes, there's six generations that are buried there. Even one of my own, my own children that, that passed that, you know, all that like we lived, you know, a couple blocks away from the cemetery where all of, all of my ancestors were buried.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh gosh.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, that's very heavy to leave a place like that.

[Andrew]

Yes. And it was, you know, after the 2022 election where the Democrats took control of the, the state senate finally and Tim Walls could do whatever he wanted to do. He, the first thing he passed was in the, in the wake of the Dobbs decision. Full, full abortion allowance, even up to birth. Like, you know, there were the stories during the election about you know, even like post birth abortions that took place in Minnesota. I went to the, to the state capitol and, and spoke to the, the first committee when that bill was being heard and, and I, I mean maybe, maybe you know, later you guys can pull up that video. But I just went there and said like hey, you, you think you can do this and, and just murder children, but God is not mocked like he's, he's, he's going to come with vengeance about what you're doing and of course consequences. Yeah, they, they're like all these, you know, 60 year old liberal ladies senators, you know, are looking at me, scoffing at me and just staring daggers at me and hating what I'm saying. How dare he cut this.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, lots of Christian nationalist. Lots of luck to them.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And so that's the first bill that they passed, the very, the second bill that they passed and these are the first two legislative priorities that they had. The second one was a trans, trans rights bill which allowed the state to take your child out of, out of their custody or your parents custody if you opposed a transition. And my, my oldest child is 12.

[Tucker Carlson]

A minor child.

[Andrew]

Minor child. Yeah. My, my oldest son, he's, he's 12 years old. He has autism. We homeschool all the rest of our children, but we don't have the, the resources to be able to, to educate him with his autism. And so he goes to special ed And I'm, I'm well aware especially, you know, you see the things that happened in 2020, 2021, all of the activism, trans stuff in, in the schools. Right. All the libs of tick tock kind of stuff. Yes. That the majority of, like, trans children are on the autism spectrum.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

These children are targeted. Right. And. And I'm thinking, okay, he, he. He doesn't talk about school. He doesn't talk about home at school. He categorizes all of his life. He just won't do it. So I would have no way of knowing, like, what is going on there. They could be putting him in a dress and calling him a girl name, and I would have no idea. And then when I find out and I oppose it, Right. Boom. CPS comes, takes him out of our custody, and he's gone forever. And they can.

[Tucker Carlson]

So that's Randy Weaver at that point. Yeah, for sure. And you don't want to go Randy. Like, it didn't end well for Randy Weaver. No, it doesn't end well for anybody.

[Andrew]

No, I don't. I don't. Yeah, I don't want to go down that road.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, no, nobody does. Nobody does.

[Andrew]

And so it's like, we need to, we need to get out of here.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

We cannot trust the, you know, the whole system with our child. They could, they could steal him from us. Right. This could happen. I don't want to be the, the test case for, for that. I don't want to go through the legal battles and do all those fights. I want my son. I don't, I don't want to live in a place where that's even conceivable that that could happen to you. It's insane. And so it was at that moment, I'm like, we need to, we need to get out of this state. This is, it's not a place where I can raise my children. And I'm thinking, like, long term, right? We, yeah, we've been in this place for six generations, but. And it's. It's a wonderful town. You know, amazing place. I mean, it's home. I love the people there. And, you know, many of them are going to be watching this.

[Tucker Carlson]

And, well, you must know all of.

[Andrew]

Them from, from my youth. You know, you. You go to the store and you see, you know, my wife and children hated when I would go to the store because it would take, you know, an hour to get a thing of milk because I just stop and talk to people I've known my whole life.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I love that.

[Andrew]

And It's a wonderful play. Like it's hard to leave that. Right. Because it's, you know it, you're familiar with everything and all of the people and just the, the way of life.

[Tucker Carlson]

And gosh, that's where your family's buried. Six generations. That's just. I, I, I had no idea. That's so much to give up that must have been.

[Andrew]

But I, I can't like it would it it, I, I can't stay in a place like that. It's there. There's no future for, for my children, for my family in a, in a place that's that far gone. Right. That, that has been destroyed. And, and you see so many of these other states, you know, California, Washington adopted all the same things that that Walls's Minnesota did.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why I want to get back to the Ridge Runner and the town that's being built which I assume is a fascist Christian theocracy.

[Andrew]

That's what the, the TV news in. Yes. Mr. Phil Williams, the journalist.

[Tucker Carlson]

Little Iran. Except Christian. But why do you think so that the three. I mean I have my own theories but you've lived it much more personally than I have. So you tell me why do you think states like Minnesota, Oregon, Washington, California have gone to a place that I think by any objective global standard there's no country in the world that would nod and say that's okay. Except maybe the uk.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

How did they get there?

[Andrew]

I think, I mean for all of them the political power was captured by the left. Political and cultural power. I mean I went to college in Minnesota in the early 2000s and you could see the seeds of all of these things beginning to form. And so all of the institutions were captured and especially culturally in Minnesota people, people are very nice.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

It's not a, it's not a Minnesota night is very real and Right. The, the ethos is if you don't have anything nice to say. Right. Don't say anything at all. Which I just swim completely against that tide.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it's, it's true. I mean not to point to genetics, but it's real. It's yeah. Germans, it's Scandinavians, Norwegian Swedes, some Finns. It's like these are, these are gentle non confrontational people for the most part.

[Andrew]

Yes. Yeah. They're, they're very, they're very kind people that, that are to a fault unwilling to give offense.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And, and very, very tolerant of, of other people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes, they are.

[Andrew]

And that gets taken advantage of. Right. So you can have, so they take.

[Tucker Carlson]

Our best qualities and subvert them against us.

[Andrew]

Yes, yes. And. And you can see that in other places, too, like on, on the west coast as well. Right. That, that with, like, Christians, this is, this is done all of, all of the time.

[Tucker Carlson]

I know.

[Andrew]

Right. Where, where you're told, well, we need to love other people and, and be kind and be Christlike and, and that ethos gets subverted and used to these ends. Right. Where. Well, how. How dare you, you know, talk about these things? Like, how. How dare you talk about these things from the pulpit that these things going on. Like, it, it offends a lot of people.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, it does. I mean, I come from a family like that with some of them have strong views, but they would never impose any circumstances. They're just, it's not in them. It's a very specific northern European culture where they just don't want to. Don't want to get in your face.

[Andrew]

No. Never.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it leaves them defenseless a little bit, I think.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I, I mean, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm unique. You know, maybe my personality type is. Is such that I just. I can't do that. I can't see, like, evil stuff happening, taking place and not say something about it. Not say, this is. This is insane. Like, how, how could we. I mean, just think a hundred years ago. And that's, that's sort of. You know, my book is right. If you go back a hundred years and you think about your, Your great great grandfather and you told him, hey, they. They're going to take little kids and little boys and remove their genitals and turn them into girls. Right. Are you okay with that? Do you think that's. That's all right? Like, what would they do if that was even proposed? Like, they.

[Tucker Carlson]

I thought eunuchs would have the Ming dynasty.

[Andrew]

That's right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I can't believe we have that.

[Andrew]

Yeah. We're bringing that back. And like, they, they would go insane. They would, they would, they would fight. They become violent if, if that were happening. And, and we're like, well, you know, I, I really want to keep my job, so I'll. I'll put the. I'll. I'll put the pronouns in my email signature and on my LinkedIn. You know, I'll. I'll just. Just go along to get along.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have contempt for them.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So my theory is that those are the most secular states.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And Maine is another one of the most secular states, unfortunately. And those trends are rising there as well.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Famously. And there's something about the. You Know lots of left wing ideas that are liberal ideas or socialist ideas that like. I don't disagree with all of them, honestly, but some of them I did. A lot of them I'd really disagree with. Yeah, but the transgender thing, the abortion thing, human sacrifice and turning your children to eunuchs, those are so clearly expressions of cultish religion, of pagan religion that like I can't turn away. I'm like, the Canaanites did this. Like, I know what's going on here. This is not. You claim you're secular. You're not secular at all. These are religious rituals. That's the way it feels to me.

[Andrew]

Yes, absolutely it is. And that's part of it too. I think the things that happened like when I was in college in the early 2000s, you know, you had the new atheism and everyone was like, it was just cool to be an atheist atheist. Like, oh, I'm agnostic. I don't, I don't really believe.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who is that? There's like a really absurd person posing as like a genius who was one of the leader there. Probably a bunch of. But who was the most famous one?

[Andrew]

Oh, like Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett or Christopher Hitchens.

[Tucker Carlson]

I knew Hitchens well. He was a marvelous guy. Totally wrong on this. He was legit smart. Yeah, no, there's another one, whatever who's always running around like today.

[Andrew]

Like James Lindsay is, is one of the. Those types who's James Lindsay? He's, he is a. This, this atheist, atheist guy that opposed wokeness and things like that. But wants, wants just a free liberal society. Like it's 1995.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, yeah, I'm all for a free liberal society. It's just that there, there isn't one either. You're moving quickly toward. I mean, I, I will never give up my views of. I will never stop being liberal on the most basic level, which is I actually don't want to control you or your beliefs because I don't think you're a slave. I think you're a human being because God made you.

[Andrew]

Absolutely.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's my view.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And so I don't want to break down people's doors to make sure they're adhering to what I believe at all. I hate that. However, you're either moving toward order or you're moving toward chaos. You're moving toward, you know, a society rooted in some sort of transcendent belief. Or you're moving toward trannyism, which is another. Yeah, like transcendent belief. It's like. Yeah, you Pick a religion.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's not whether, but which. There. There will be one. And that's, that's part of it is like the, the new, like the new atheism, all those things they broke down, you know, Christian mores and, and, and, and Christian, you know, just cultural Christianity that was imbued all, all throughout, you know, the American public life.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Takes all of that down. But then there's a vacuum, and that vacuum gets filled up. And what's it been filled up with? Insane stuff like this child sacrifice, you know, all of it. Like, it is, it is a new religion. It isn't. It isn't a question of like, well, we're just going to have pluralism. We're not going to have any dominant religion. It's no, There will be one. There will be a God that you serve. And, and the one that we are serving now is some kind of demon.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I think that. So much better put than I could have. Than I could have formulated that, but. Yes, exactly. Perfectly put. Exactly. You're going to worship something. Yeah, and now we're worship being something really, really dark as a society. But it's particularly pronounced in the States that have abandoned Christianity the most aggressively and just come up with this new pagan religion. So, okay, so this is going on in your state. You're the six generations in one town. Boy, that's got to be pretty rare right now. You've got six children. You have a child buried in the cemetery along with all your ancestors. And you leave all of that. What's going on in your church? Were you a churchgoer at the time?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I was. I was pastoring a church. Oh, gosh, yeah. Yes, literally.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay. Yes. So you're involved in church?

[Andrew]

Yes, I am. Yeah. And it's a church with wonderful people. And, and, you know, they're. They're there because they, you know, more or less think like I do. They like, like hearing what I preach. You know, they like, they like all of these things. And, and so it's extremely difficult to leave them as well. But it was difficult because it was a very small church and the things that I'm preaching. So I take the pastorate there in 2021. So after the lockdowns, after all of these things, and there's an incredible amount of discontent among Christians because their church has been shut down, their leaders have failed them. And so we had many families join us after that. But, you know, overall, right. The people, you know, in, In Minnesota. Right. They don't. They're not used to the kind of preaching that, that I do, the kind of Christianity that I have where it's like, I. No, I believe the Bible. Like, like God is real and he has spoken. He's revealed himself to us in the Bible. And therefore I believe all of it. And I'm not embarrassed by any of it. I'm not gonna like, tiptoe around the things that might be controversial. If anything, I'm gonna lean into those things and I'm gonna preach all of it. And that runs totally against the evangelical Christian ethos in America today. It's all about you need to be nice. You need to make Jesus very inoffensive to people. And that's how you bring people into your church.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sure, I'll say. I'm not an ev. I always liked the evangelicals. I've always defended them. I'm very sympathetic as a non. I'm not even exactly sure what an evangelical is. It seems more like a cultural descriptor. But I'm completely opposed to abortion. So that has been for me the reason that I've always defended them. But I always thought that the evangelicals were really forthright about their faith. Another thing that I liked and were way more on the kind of fire and brimstone side, which I'm for, by the way. But you're saying that they're not that.

[Andrew]

That was certainly, you look at like, you know, the 80s and even in the early 90s, like you have the Moral Majority where they very much were that kind of fire and brimstone and they've, they've been vindicated by everything that has happened.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Andrew]

Here, guys.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Andrew]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Andrew]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Andrew]

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[Tucker Carlson]

Merchants Payments Coalition, not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee.

[Andrew]

Www.merrestancespaymentscoalition.com but throughout the 90s and early 2000s, they really changed course right as the cultural trajectory is, is changing. They, they adopted, you know, very secret sensitive movement where it's like, well, people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sorry, what did you call it?

[Andrew]

Yeah, seeker sensitive movement.

[Tucker Carlson]

What does that mean?

[Andrew]

It was, it was right. The, the big movement in evangelicalism in the 90s and early 2000s where we're, we're gonna, we're gonna make it as easy as possible for people to, to come into the church and believe in, in Jesus and, and, and so we're not going to focus on things that might offend them. We're not going to focus on sin and repentance and things like that we're just come on in and have a good time and know that you're welcome here. Come as you are, we'll meet you halfway. Like that was more or less the.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why do you think they did that?

[Andrew]

I think a friend of mine, I think I could call him a friend. Aaron Ren. He's written about this. Neutral world or negative world? Neutral world, positive world. Where, you know, in the 70s and 80s, Christianity is generally understood culturally as, as a positive thing. Like if you said, oh, I go to church, I'm a Christian, I go to that church, people think, oh, that's a good guy. He's. He's an upstanding, decent person. But by the, by the mid-90s, it was, it was sort of neutral, right? It was sort of. Well, that's just a cool thing that you do, right? Just like collecting stamps or building model trains or being part of the Lions Club. But by the, you know, by the Obama years, by like 2015, you're in negative world where if you're an evangelical Christian, you are suspect. You're probably a Nazi, you're probably a bigot, you're probably a white supremacist. Right? That's the attitude that people can just.

[Tucker Carlson]

Ask you to pause just to state for the one millionth time, the Nazis were not Christians. They were not Christians, but they love.

[Andrew]

To throw those things around. It's your Christians.

[Tucker Carlson]

No. Yeah. More Christians were killed by the Nazis than any other group. Just a fact. So anyway. No, the Nazis were not Christians.

[Andrew]

I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah, good to make, you know. Yeah. Because they'll clip this and they'll say, yeah, oh, Ed Risker is saying that the, the Christians are Nazis. But so that, that, that period of, of time, like there's these widespread cultural shifts in, in the country. And so I think a lot of it is just in response to that, where you're in that neutral world. And so you had, you had figures like, like Rick Warren or Tim Keller who, who sort of adapted these things. So Tim Keller is in New York City and, and he, he tries to adapt, you know, Christianity to, you're, you know, upper middle class, you know, Strifer people in New York City were to make it easy for them to come to church. So he wouldn't ever, you know, talk about homosexuality or, or if he did, it would be, well, that's not so good for human flourishing. But we're not really going to talk about that too much. There's the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, J.D. greer, you know, famously said In a sermon. Well, the Bible just whispers about sexual sin, but it shouts about, about like financial sin or greed. Right. So they, they want to downplay it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Shouts about both of them.

[Andrew]

It does. And the two are connected, right?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Right. If you're, if you're, you're greedy for money, you're also going to be lusting after the flesh like that. The two go hand in hand. And, and so, but it's to downplay things that the culture does not want to hear. Right. Because you'll be branded as a bigot, as intolerant as a bad person if you're just like, well, this is what the Bible says. Like this, you know, fornicators, adulterers, sodomites, they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Right. If you say, yes, I agree with that, you're a bad person.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right?

[Andrew]

You're, you're, you are outside of polite society if you say those things.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you can reject it, you can reject Christianity itself and you're certainly welcome to in this country and in all countries actually. But it doesn't just say this parenthetically. No, it's like included in a sidebar. It says it again and again and again in the church I grew up. And they're like, well, there are only four times where, you know, in the scriptures where people, you know, where Christian, where homosexuality is attacked. And it's like since no one ever read it in my church, no one knew, but like I finally read it. What the hell, why not read it? And I did. And, and I've never been anti gay or anything like that. But by the end I was like, oh, there's a really clear message.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

From like the Hebrew scriptures all the way through the Christian to the New Testament and like again and again and again. So you know, again you don't have to believe it, but if you're a believing Christian, it, it, it's not whispered at all.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you do, you do have to believe it if you're a Christian. If you claim that you, that this is the Bible that God spoke to us. Right. And, and so they're, they're very fearful of those kinds of things. But I mean, the interesting thing now that we're in, you know, what Ren calls negative world is is that young men who, who were kind, who were raised, most of them like raised secular, right. They went through the, the whole new atheism thing. They never went to church, they never grew up. I mean, I, I talked to so many guys, so, so many young men. You know, I, I see. You know Connect with me on. On X and, and places like that where they're like, hey, I was not part of the church at all. I was not a Christian. And I see all of the evil everywhere. Right. I see the things like you were talking about, like they, they are sacrificing babies. Like it's, they, they care about this more than anything else. The ability to murder a baby. They see things like the Ukraine war where it's like our rulers just decided to have a war and kill millions of people for absolutely no reason.

[Tucker Carlson]

And our proxies have banned the majority Christian faith.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Banned the majority Christian faith. The majority faith which is Christian in Ukraine. And I just wonder, just to go back to the atheists for a second, what do they make of this? Like, it just. I understand, certainly understand being agnostic. Like, I don't know, you know, I get it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I can see why someone would have that viewpoint, for sure. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think that's a pretty normal, you know, place to be. I think it's wrong, but I don't think it's crazy. Yeah, but to be an atheist, to have determined that there is no God. Like, what do you make of the things you see around you if you never hold, held someone's hand while he dies? Like, what do you think that is?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

You never felt anything that is clearly outside of what science describes. Like, how determined are you to ignore your life.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

That you become an atheist? Like, what is that?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I, I mean, it's funny because most of the people that you talk to are like, when, when they espouse kind of atheist. Atheist ideas. Right. They'll retreat. It's kind of a Mott and Bailey thing where they'll retreat to acknowledge. Well, I really am agnostic. I don't really know for sure. Right. So there's very few, very few, especially now, that are like, no, I'm an atheist. There definitely is no God.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right. Okay, well then how. Why is murder wrong?

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, because it is. Because it is. Well, okay. I think it's right.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So how does, how can you tell me it's wrong? By what authority? Yeah, yeah. Because you feel that way. That's your authority, your emotions.

[Andrew]

And you would see this. I remember.

[Tucker Carlson]

So like the people you were saying who are atheists, like they ever. Some of them are smart, I assume.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do they say to that?

[Andrew]

I remember, I remember watching, you know, previous guest of yours, actually the man who trained me in ministry, Doug Wilson.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Debate.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wonderful man, Christopher Hitchens.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, yes.

[Andrew]

And they they had that discussion, right? And it was. It was shocking to watch Hitchens say, well, it's, you know, it's common human experience, you know. You know, solidarity with mankind. That's why I think murder is wrong. And of course, Doug says to him, well, you know, well, if you saw someone being, like, murdered on the street, you think that's bad, right? Well, why. And he goes into his whole spiel and he's like, well, what if. What if it's a pregnant woman and her baby's being murdered? Right? You would just say, well, no, no, you need to have a medical license for that, to kill that person. Right? Like, he got.

[Tucker Carlson]

What did Christopher say?

[Andrew]

He's like, oh, you're being flippant. You know, you wouldn't go down that road.

[Tucker Carlson]

What's so sad is I knew Christopher very well and always liked him enormously. FRIZZIERI EDITION his ability to recite long passages of poetry, you know, Philip Larkin and Orwell. And, you know, he was just a. He, you know, he was a reader, like a real dedicated lifelong reader and a wonderful dinner and lunch companion. I had many, many highly drunken dinners with him before I quit drinking. And. But he was such. And so I love Christopher, but he was a moralizer. Whoa.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I never. I was much younger, 25 years younger than I am now, and I never sort of put it together my mind, like, how can an atheist be a moralizer?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

It doesn't even make any sense, actually.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I agreed with him on some things and disagreed on others, but he was always, like, in the pulpit, actually.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And a lot of the atheists are.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What is that?

[Andrew]

Well, I think so much of it is. Is atheism, really.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is an atheist moralizer. It's hilarious.

[Andrew]

Well, it's a Christian heresy. Like, they want to. They want to have all the things of Christianity just without. Without God there. Right. So they want to be able to pursue all of these things. Right. They want to be able to say this is right and this is wrong, but have no. No authority to ground it on. Right. Just. Just by their say so. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's though.

[Andrew]

I mean, conundrum. Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's wrong.

[Andrew]

Well, and you could.

[Tucker Carlson]

You could see why. Yeah.

[Andrew]

You could see why it's breaking down, though, today under the weight of its own silliness. Yeah, yeah. It creates this vacuum and it replaced by something. So all of the. All of the moralistic energy is still there, and now it's gone to. To things like transgenderism, abortion, you know, Gaza. What Whatever. Like, it goes. It goes to all of those routes. It goes to, you know, BLM and, And rioting, like. And. And so it's because it's highly religious in us.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, it's in us. We can't get away from the conviction, the true conviction that some things are right and some things are wrong.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. It's. That's. It's fundamentally human. Absolutely.

[Tucker Carlson]

So. But an atheist would have to, by definition, be utterly not non judgmental about everything. Like on. They should.

[Andrew]

You. You would think they should be, but they. They're the most judgmental people.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's unbelievable. I mean, Christopher at dinner was always lecturing you at the Kurds. And I'm nothing against the Kurds. I don't know much about the Kurds. I ran into them in Iraq. I. They were the most bloodthirsty people in Iraq. I did notice that.

[Andrew]

But he was so.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm, again, I'm not against the Kurds. You know, I'm not an expert in Kurdishness, but he, man, he would like, lay down his life for the Kurds.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I remember thinking, what is this? And it was the need to sort of find a good guy and a bad guy and put yourself on the good guy side.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's. That's human.

[Tucker Carlson]

Like, human.

[Andrew]

We want that.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's totally true. So what did you say to your church when you left?

[Andrew]

That was. That was one of the hardest days of my life.

[Tucker Carlson]

I believe it.

[Andrew]

To tell them I'm. I'm leaving. I'm going to Tennessee. And it was. It was difficult. I still have a connection with them, relationship with them still. I'm still trying to find them a pastor to replace me.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

It's hard to.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's.

[Andrew]

It's hard for me to do that because, like. Well, you left Andrew. Why you want me to go there now? But they. They need one. And, and they're wonderful, wonderful people who have blessed me immensely. And I just told them that, no, I have to leave Minnesota. There's a place for me there in Tennessee, and it's ultimately what is best for my family's future. There's a place where my children can grow up. Because part of it too, isn't just the things that we're leaving, the political, cultural things that we're leaving in Minnesota, but it's also, you know, overall, the things that have been done to the Midwest, to, to everywhere where my, my children grow up. And if. If they want to have, you know, a career and, and a life and a family and a Success of their own. There just isn't much for them in, in small town Midwest. And, and, and so they'll all just fly the coop. Like, I mean, this is what happened. Like when I graduate from high school, most of the people that I, I grew up with, they all, they all left. They went to the Twin Cities, they went to other, other cities for work and, and for, for careers and, and so that, that same thing was likely going to happen with, with my children. And I, I look at it and I think, well, my family's been here for six generations and whether it's going to end here. Right. And I want, I want to be in a place where we can continue that, where we can be rooted, where my children have the ability to stay in a place. And, and so, so many, so many friends are, are coming to, to Tennessee where, where we are. They're bringing businesses there and once you, you know, build things at scale, like the more stuff you're able to do, the more businesses you're able to have, the more opportunity is for, for young people. And so if my children want to stay where we are and continue that on generation after generation, we actually will be able to do that. It wasn't so much just, okay, we need to leave Minnesota, but it's also, we're being drawn to a place for a particular reason.

[Tucker Carlson]

The Tennessee dream.

[Andrew]

There's a future there. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

The hope of refugees from time immemorial.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What did the other churches in the state say as the state itself became a place that faithful Christians couldn't live?

[Andrew]

I mean, there are a handful of churches there that are very strong. There are Christians there that oppose these things, but they are so vastly outnumbered. Like when I went to the state capitol to oppose the abortion bill, there were lots of activists on both sides, pro life activists and pro ritual sacrifice activists, but there were, there were no other pastors there. I think the, one of the Catholic bishops did a Skype call, Zoom call. But beyond that there were, there were no other pastors. And I'm thinking like my church is, is like 30, 40 people. I'm a, I do this, you know, it's, it's I tent make, I do, I do a full time job and then do this. I, we're tiny. I'm, I'm small. I'm insignificant. And, and there are churches with 15, 20,000 people, prominent men in, in the Twin Cities. And, and all I had to do was just send an email to the, the clerk of the committee, like, hey, can I have two minutes to speak no one showed up. Right. No one is there. And it's like, no, they're going to like, murder babies up to birth, like, enshrine this in, in our law, try to make a constitutional amendment for it. All of these things. And, and no one is, is opposing it. Like, I, I'm the only one that, that came. I, I quoted the Bible, I, I and, and opposed it as a Christian. Right. They, there's just so little fight there.

[Tucker Carlson]

Christians built your state.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

And all of it and every bit of it. And it's so telling. When you go to the Twin Cities, I think of them as Protestant and Catholic.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think of them as Scandinavian in Minneapolis and Irish and others in St. Paul. But both of them, especially St. Paul, just littered with churches and schools. And it's just like the infrastructure of those cities was built by Christians. And so it's a little bit crazy that first of all, it's been taken over by people who have made a point to stick a finger in the eye of Christians to make it impossible for them to live there. It's like you're being driven out of your own homeland. Six generations.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, this is what happened with, with my, my wife is from St. Paul. Her, you know, father's side of the family is Polish Catholic. I went to St. Casmer's Church.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly. That's exactly in my mind what I think of.

[Andrew]

In the neighborhood that they, they were in, it was all, all Polish people, but now it's all, it's all Hmong. Right. Everywhere it's all Hmong and Somali and everyone there just left over the last.

[Tucker Carlson]

Two or three of their churches and parochial schools and like.

[Andrew]

Well, St. Casmer's Church is there, but it's, it's largely empty. Right. We went there for a funeral a couple years ago, but there's, I mean, people still attended, but it's not like it, not like it was. Most of the, most of the parishes there have shut down. The church, the church schools have, have shut down and, and they've moved out to the suburbs. And so that, I mean, it was, that was a Polish neighborhood. It was, it was. Right. This ethnic enclave, if I can just say, gone.

[Tucker Carlson]

Showing myself to be an ethnic nationalist. The poll, they're just like some of the greatest people.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've ever met. I don't think I've ever met.

[Andrew]

I have to say that married one. So.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I just think they're great people. I don't know. I've met many I don't like, but just salts of the earth. Smart, hard working, serious about faith and family. Yeah. Great people. Yeah, I doubt it was an improvement, the change to St. Paul, in fact. It wasn't. I've been there.

[Andrew]

No, it's like when, when her parents finally moved, like the, the whole area is, is just. Is run down, Lots of crime, you know, and it's, it's sad because it was, it was. You could see the, the, the remnants of what was like the, the. You drive through St. Paul, you see some of the old buildings and how beautiful they were, how much care people put into. Unbelievable, these places. And now they're just falling apart. Bars on windows everywhere.

[Tucker Carlson]

Factory work workers, like, basically tithing to build the infrastructure of churches and schools and their own homes. People with no money giving the maximum amount to build all this stuff for their families. And then it's just some politician decides, oh, this is too white, so we need to destroy it all and destroy all the people. It's a crime on a level that only historians will be able to assess clearly. But. Yeah. Okay, sorry. So can we just. Before you get into what's happening in Tennessee, I'm so discursive. It's my fault. But what. Why aren't the fearsome evangelicals, who I will still defend.

[Andrew]

Absolutely. I'm just saying that the laity absolutely defend them.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, the laity know a million of them, and I love them. In fact, there's some working here right now in this office. But the, the preachers, like, where were they during all of this?

[Andrew]

Oh, I mean, I think it's largely the contemporary evangelical mode of being. I mean, so much of it, I look back to it going all the way back to something like the second Great Awakening, where the purpose of the major change that took place there is. It's all about conversionism, and it becomes a big show and marketing and all of that.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's where you. The 10 revival.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Charles Finney, those, those kinds of things. Well, that, that's kind of in the DNA, at least somewhat within evangelicalism.

[Tucker Carlson]

So to put a finer point on what you're saying, the point became the more souls we convert, the more people who, who profess faith.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's like the scorecard that we use.

[Andrew]

Yeah. That's the metric that, that, that everyone follows. And, and so you look at it and you think, well, if we just, if we just water it down a little bit more, make it more palatable to people, people, you know, just get more, more butts in the seats. Right. Then that's the metric of success. Not Right. The internal development, discipleship of people. Not, not actual repentance and conversion, not, you know, fundamental life change and so forth that traditional Christianity always was. It's, oh, if we just get them here. And of course, if they put some money in the plate and, and they're attending, that's what matters. So you see churches where it's like, okay, we have amazing production values, we have a great band and all of these things. And it's, it's all of these entertainments to get people in. Or the sermon is, is sort of like a self help talk. There isn't really Bible in it at all. Or if it is, it's like tangentially related to, to something that the pastor wants to say. It's not. All right, we're going to go through a chapter of Leviticus today and explain what the sacrifices are about. Well, there's no, there's none of those things. And see, you see, you know, many evangelical people have not been taught really any Bible or theology at all. And you see this in like surveys, like the Barna group does surveys. And right. What people believe about different things. And, and they, they haven't been taught any Bible. They don't, they don't know it. And so then when, you know, when the, the liberal says, well, the Bible condemns eating shellfish and pork and in the same way it condemns homosexuality. So what do you have to say about that? And they have no idea how to explain that, what that is about. And, and their faith is shaken.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or God didn't destroy two cities with sulfur and fire because people were eating pork. That's right. He destroyed them because they tried to commit gay rape on an angel.

[Andrew]

So that's just. Yeah. And, and they'll say that with, well, the sin of Sodom was hos inhospitality.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, it wasn't.

[Andrew]

Well, I mean, I guess it was gay rape.

[Tucker Carlson]

Rape.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, the least hospitable.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, you can read it if you want. It's like, yeah, it's pretty out there.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's like, well, yeah, the least hospitable thing you could do to a guest is to anally rape them. Yes. So all the men of the town.

[Tucker Carlson]

Came out, they demanded, yeah, we need.

[Andrew]

To know these angels to have sex with these angels.

[Tucker Carlson]

And then lots like, I've got some daughters in here, take them.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Which kind of takes a lot off my Christmas card list for saying something like that. But whatever he does that, it's in Genesis. And then they're like, no, we Want to rape the dudes, Like, God. So it's like, it's. These are not euphemisms. Pretty straightforward.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I actually. I just read Genesis 19 to my children, and there were some questions from the kids.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was funny. I read that a couple of years ago for the first time, I'll admit it. And my wife, who's a very serious and just wonderful person, but a serious Christian, we're on a walk. And I was. I was told her, like, what I had read the night before, and she's like, what? What? You know, she's. I mean, she's just like. She's the model for me as a faithful person. But she was like, no, that's no way. And I was like, it's in there.

[Andrew]

That's what happened. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And. And. And so I think about that. It's like. I mean, it's funny. Like, even at my little, little church, I. I just preach through the Bible, right? So I'll just take a chapter and I'll talk about it. I'll explain what's going on, all of these things. And I mean, I have. I have some, you know, wonderful people there, older people that have been Christians, you know, their entire adult lives, and they're in their, you know, 70s. And. And one of them said to me, you know, Andrew, that's. That's the first time someone has ever preached from the Book of Judges in a church service.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's a good one.

[Andrew]

I went through the entire, entire book. And then, well, let's do Ruth. And then First Samuel and Second Samuel, and. And. And. And it's like, well, there's so much. There's so much there. I mean, I had friends come down that were sort of, you know, new and. And becoming Christians out of being secular their whole lives, and they're like, whoa. The Bible is extremely metal. This is. This is wild. Like, there's so much, like, political intrigue happening in first and Second Samuel. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And.

[Andrew]

And I'm like, yeah. And I'm explaining it, you know, sort of in, like, this, you know, mere shimery real. And they're just, like, at the edge of their seats, like, whoa, whoa.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's crazy that that happened.

[Andrew]

And. And so I love it.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I can see why I. I don't claim to understand a lot of it, particularly the Old Testament, starting to figure out the New Testament more, but just having read it cold a couple of times, just like a book like you would read Anna Karenina or Moby Dick, it's like the Wildest, coolest, most interesting, most profound. Like, those are not overstatements at all.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I think everybody. It's the basis of Western civilization. I don't know why people don't read it. There's obviously a reason. But even if you're an atheist, how could you not read the Bible? Like, everything we have is founded on the ideas in this, and you're basically illiterate if you haven't read it.

[Andrew]

Oh, I know. I mean, you can see this. It's so funny, like, when journalists write about the Bible and they're like, oh, there's this weird illusion here. And it's like he's talking about a. A whale swallowing a man. I don't really know what's going on. And it's like, that's the book of Jonah. How do you not. How do you not know what that's about? But they. Well, it's just. No idea.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's just so compelling.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Of all the New Year's resolutions you're likely to put off, the one you're most likely to put off and keep putting off is buying life insurance. And you should have life insurance. It's kind of crazy not to, because the future is unknown. You got to have life insurance, but you may not have life life insurance because it's a huge hassle and it can be a huge ripoff. But there is an answer. Policy genius. It makes it very easy and much cheaper. You can find life insurance policies start at just 292 bucks per year for a million dollars of coverage. And some options, and this is the best part, are 100% online and let you avoid unnecessary medical exams. The guy with the gloves. You don't want that. If you can avoid it, and you may be able to avoid it, 40% of people wind up looking back and wishing they'd had better life insurance or any life insurance. It could have helped their families enormously. Policy genius can fix that for you. Peace of mind. That's what they're really selling. The address policygenius.comtucker or click the link in the description to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much money you could save and how much hassle you could save. Policygenius.com Tucker Even Leviticus, which I read on a flight to Europe one night I made myself, because, you know, I had eight hours on a plane, and I texted my wife from the plane. I was like, this is excellent, actually. It's just excellent. I thought it was gonna be all, like, sacrificing doves because you have your period. That's in there. But like 95% of it made sense to me.

[Andrew]

Well, and it's real, it's tangible, right? It's you know, in theological, incarnational, like it's your, your, the, the real tangible world that people interact with. Right, that's there. And it, people always ask me like, well Andrew, what's your favorite book of the Bible? And I, and I love to, I mean sometimes I love to get a rise out of people, but I, I tell them, well, Leviticus is. And, and they're like what? Really? And I'm like, yeah, like, I mean I'm, I'm a pastor. My calling is to, is to preach the gospel and to lead worship. And, and that book right there, all of it is about how do sinful people draw near and approach the presence of a holy, just, righteous God that cannot bear sin at all. And there it's laid out for us, all of it. And even like you look at Leviticus chapter 9, like you read that, maybe you remember reading it. I'm actually going through this with my church right now in Tennessee. But Leviticus chapter 9 is the entire liturgy of the church right there. Each, each of the sacrifices and all of the like Western liturgy for 2,000 years basically follows it, right? You, you're called into the presence of God. You, you confess your sins. I mean you probably like your Episcopalian upbringing, Book of Common Prayer. Like you, you probably track with this, right?

[Tucker Carlson]

You could never, they never admitted that in our church.

[Andrew]

Yeah, maybe they didn't have a confession to sin of yours. But, but there's a confession of sin, right? Then there's an ascension, right? The ascension offering in chapter one of Leviticus, right? The entire, the worshiper puts his hand on the animal, right? Saying like this animal's me. And then the entire thing is, is consumed, is burned up, right? Ola, right? Where the word holocaust comes from. Consumed, burned up, goes up to God in smoke. And that's you, right? That's when. And then the New Testament where it says, right, the word of God is living in active, sharper than any two edged sword. What's the sword of the priest that cuts the animal, animal and puts it on the altar and burns it up. Well, that's what's happening when the church hears the Bible read and hears it preached, right? You're being cut up by the word of God and ascending up to God in smoke. And then the next part of the service is the peace offering. Well, that's communion, right? You sit down and have a meal with God and then you're sent out. Right. The entire liturgy is right there. Like our actual worship that we do now, right after the death of Jesus and resurrection of Jesus. Right. Sacrifice is done away with because he. He is that sacrifice. And we're going through all of that each time we worship and, and renew the covenant with God. And, and like, you see that in, in Leviticus. And it's like, whoa. Actually, there's so much to learn here in this book about what we are doing every. Every Sunday when we, when we worship God. So I'm like, yeah, this, of course, is my favorite book. Right. Not just because I'm autistic and, like, lots of rules and regulations. Right. It's like reading the. Reading the instructions on the Monopoly game. No, it's there. So much is happening. It's beautiful.

[Tucker Carlson]

And the prescriptions, or the prohibitions, more precisely, are surprisingly sensible. And one of the challenges to atheism is to explain why the atheist would agree with the overwhelming majority of what's prohibited. It. Yeah, because it's. It's in him. He knows that's wrong. Don't have sex with your sister. Okay.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Tucker Carlson]

And most people, most atheists would be like, yeah, well, obviously. But of course, he has no grounds upon which to say that. Yeah, there's literally no law he can appeal to to say that.

[Andrew]

He says that obviously because, like, he grew up and was. Is reared and, and absorbed by osmosis. Like Christian culture, where that's prohibited.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think that's right. But I also think in primitive cultures that have never had exposure to Christianity. I mean, I don't know that there are many cultures where most of the prohibitions in Leviticus would be considered crazy.

[Andrew]

No.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or esoteric or, like, why would you ban that? It's like every one of them, like, of course.

[Andrew]

Well, even, like you think about this, there's a pastor, theologian, brilliant guy, Peter Leithardt, who wrote a book, Delivered from the Elements of the World. And in that. That he shows. I mean, there's tons of just amazing stuff in this book, but one of the things that he shows is that God makes these restrictions for Israel in the old covenant that sets them apart as this holy people, as the priestly people. But elsewhere in the world, they all have something like that. All throughout the ancient world, their gods had something like a fun house mirror version of Leviticus where it's like, okay, here's all these rules about sex and what makes you clean and unclean and food you can't eat and can't eat. Like, The Egyptians had this. The Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, all of them have these kinds of the.

[Tucker Carlson]

The Mayans, the Incas, the Aztecs, the.

[Andrew]

Norse, like my ancestors, the Germanics, like, they all had these, these rules. And it's. Well, it's because in the ancient world, right, they're all under their own particular gods.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

And what, what Jesus does is he comes and he. He takes the world back from Satan and from all the, the demons that ruled over the ancient world. And. And now he's reigning over heaven. Or that's actually like the book of Revelation, right? That's actually like, what's going on in that book.

[Tucker Carlson]

The much maligned book of Revelation.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, I know you had, you had John Rich on, you know, last year, and he's talking about dispensationalism and things like that. And I was like, oh, oh, I'm gonna be in Tennessee. I need to meet him and talk to him about this. Did you? I. I haven't. No. I have no way of getting in touch. Maybe after this, if, if he's watching.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, he's a good man.

[Andrew]

Oh, I love. I mean, he was like the soundtrack of my youth of country music. Like, he wrote all those songs. Right. So on that basis alone. Right. But he's talking about, like, dispensationalism and what has happened in, in American Christianity for the last, you know, 130 years, how it's actually a novel new thing. And, and for me, it was, it was like. Yeah, I, I looked at that. I mean, I remember, you know, growing up and that's just everything, like, left behind and, and the rapture is coming and all of that.

[Tucker Carlson]

All of that. Yeah, yeah, you're talking about.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's a thing like, like, especially. And of course, like, I'm very critical of it. But, like, these are the, these are the best people in America that believe it. Like, the, the people that have like, six trump flags on the back of their truck.

[Tucker Carlson]

I totally agree.

[Andrew]

Like, they, they also believe that, well, the rapture is coming tomorrow. We need to. And so anytime I'm critical of it, I'm like, okay, I'm not critical of the people. There's not a moral defect that they believe these things.

[Tucker Carlson]

First of all, thank you for saying that. Second, I feel what you're saying, especially with evangelicals, I look at these grease ball preachers who, honestly, I find disgusting, and then I see the people who go to their churches and I'm like, oh, I love you. You're exactly my kind of people. You're the most decent people in this country. You're trying your very hardest against headwinds that are so unfair, and you're doing a great job anyway. And I just love that. I really mean it. I love them. So I never want to criticize, ever. Yeah, right. Because.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like. And so, like, whenever I'm critical of that theology, I'm like, I have to make sure people know. Like, I'm not criticizing you because you're great, awesome people. Like, even when I. When I first went to the. The town in Gainsborough, before we decided to, you know, before we made our move, it was right after the hurricane, which it was. I wasn't far from there. And. And this is a town that, like, they don't have a whole lot. The median income is not very high in this town. But I'm. I'm driving around in every gas station.

[Tucker Carlson]

Where is it?

[Andrew]

Gainesborough, Tennessee, is in Jackson County. It's like north central Tennessee.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And so every gas station.

[Andrew]

Every gas station has, like, signs up like, hey, we're going to. We're going to western North Carolina to go help out. And it's like, like, people that don't have a whole. Like, they're. They're taking their time and. And what little money they have to go help people. And meanwhile, you know, the Biden administration is sending billions more to Ukraine and to Israel and everything, and they're taking their time. It's like, these are wonderful people.

[Tucker Carlson]

They are. And I will say, for Trump, whatever people think of Trump, I know Trump well enough to have talked to him about this kind of stuff, and, you know, away from cameras and his affection, love, gratitude toward those specific people is totally real.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you can argue about whether, you know, which policies serve those people best or whatever, but it. All leadership begins with love.

[Andrew]

Love.

[Tucker Carlson]

If you don't love the people you.

[Andrew]

Lead, you'll mistreat them and you see it reciprocated. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it's totally real.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Completely real. And it's emotional.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And he's like, I love those people.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And he's McDonald's in private.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So that is. I just want to say that because I know that for a fact, you know, a lot of politics is obviously fake, and.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

But that part. That specific part of Trump, like, Like loving people like that. Oh, man.

[Andrew]

Well, and it. It's the people that are, you know, the most maligned in our country. Like, like the. If the only people you can make fun of are, like, rural Southern Appalachian people. Right. That's free game. You can criticize them all you want and mock them like, you know, Jimmy Kimmel can, can make fun of them all day long on his show. No other group of people can you do that for. And, and they're the people that have been, have been dispossessed of their country the most. And, and you, I like, this is a big reason why we moved to this place is these are the people that are hated. I want to go live with them.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

I, I want to be around these because they're great people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wonderful and cheerful too.

[Andrew]

Yeah, wonderful people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. I live in a place a lot of people like that and you know, every third person has a child or grandson who's died of a drug OD and like there's no year round work and there's just a lot of problems. And these are like, you can pull into their driveway on a Sunday and they will just, they'll have a six pack and they'll give you two of them. I mean, they really are just the most generous, kind, hilarious, wise, just good people. The best, the best that this country's ever produced, in my opinion.

[Andrew]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I'm not, I'm not from those people at all. So I'm like coming at this, like, wow, these people are incredible.

[Andrew]

Yeah, absolutely. And, and so I think about that, right. And I think about the theology that has been that it, that has shaped, you know, their outlook. And it's understandable because like, you're especially in the midst of like serious decline. It's like. Well, actually it's sort of attractive to have this eschatology where everything is coming to an end. Right. You can understand why people would eat that up. But the people that actually built America, right. You know, the Puritans and all of the settlers of this country, you think of even like the founding generation, that theology did not exist yet. That wasn't until the middle of the 19th century that it came into being. Like they were actually optimistic. Right. They viewed this continent as a place for Christians to build, to grow, to have a future.

[Tucker Carlson]

What an interesting point. Well, I've never thought of that before. So dispensationalism, for those who haven't followed it, is normally criticized and defended because of its interpretation of what biblical Israel is now. Yeah, okay.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So it's like, it's a super electric topic, both theologically and politically.

[Andrew]

Absolutely.

[Tucker Carlson]

And people get utterly hysterical about it and start calling you names or whatever.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So there's that. But you're saying that the deeper or a deeper problem with it is that it makes people pessimistic.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can you flesh it out a little bit?

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I think if, I mean, if you think if you go your entire life believing that any minute the world is going to come to an end.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

That I'm going to float up into heaven and my clothes will be here and everybody, everything, everything, we, we're gone. It's, it's done, it's over. Right. Well, that, that takes a. People that ordinarily are, are very low time preference that, that build things for the future that, that delay gratification, all of those kinds of things, and it flips it around and makes them very high time preference where it's like, well, if the world's not gonna be around tomorrow, why invest in anything.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

For today. And you can even see this in terms of architecture. Right. You think of the, the buildings that, that churches have. Well, they, they're in strip malls or they're, you know, just, they're kind of ugly. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Garbage.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And, and you look at the buildings that.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's like a former, former pet store in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

And you look at the buildings that Christians had before this was the dominant theology. And they're gorgeous, they're beautiful. And there were very poor people that made them, like you said earlier. And, and it's like that, that, that, that right there, like you see it tangibly that. And you think about that in terms of all of life.

[Tucker Carlson]

That is so smart. And what, what was the phrase use low time preference.

[Andrew]

Yeah, low, low time preference. It's like an economic phrase. Right. So. Right. Your, your preference.

[Tucker Carlson]

Please respect my ignorance.

[Andrew]

Yes. It just means that you, you're going to wait longer for things. It's, it's sort of like the marshmallow test with little kids. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Where. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Where the one like in five minutes you'll get two marshmallows or you can eat this one right now. Right. Well, the, the, the child that says, oh, I'll wait, I want two. Right. Well, he's going to go on and have more success and, and, and so forth versus the one that has, that immediately grabs the one and eats it. Right. Well that's, that's low time preference. It's.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

It's people that will delay gratification who will save and invest and, and build things for the long term term for.

[Tucker Carlson]

The future and for future generations.

[Andrew]

Yes, yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

That plant oak trees.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who plants oak trees?

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, I mean we're going to, in tennis. We want to have. Bring back the American chestnut in. In Tennessee. We want to bring that back.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are you putting in evergreens, please?

[Andrew]

Oh, I think everything. Yeah. I mean, there's. There's pines. Yeah. There's.

[Tucker Carlson]

Please don't neglect the pine.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I know it's a fast growing tree, relatively speaking, but it's.

[Andrew]

It's beautiful.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's the answer in cedars. If you can. If you have water. Yeah, I don't.

[Andrew]

I don't know if we'll be able.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Now we're gonna get into.

[Tucker Carlson]

Since you're a preacher, Old Testament scholar, what was the inside of the temple clad with cedar?

[Andrew]

Yeah, from Lebanon.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

God himself said cedar.

[Andrew]

That's right. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

An accident. He was pretty specific about it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. It smells great.

[Tucker Carlson]

Maybe there's a reason my sauna has cedar on the inside.

[Andrew]

That's right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Tell my kids that.

[Andrew]

Just think of it like the temple.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's my cedar church.

[Andrew]

Yes, that's right. No sacrifices.

[Tucker Carlson]

However. Well, here's something you may not have known. This network almost didn't exist. Trademark issue almost prevented us from launching by blocking us from using the name tcn. Now, a company called the American Country Network owned the rights to that trademark, and we were not sure if they would give them up. Looking back, American Country Network could have demanded a lot of money. They could have held us up at gunpoint in exchange for the name tcn. And a lot of businesses would have done. Done that, but they didn't. They were incredibly nice. They gave us the name for free, and they gave it to us quick. That's when we realized this is not your average company at all. These are really, really nice people. And we're glad this happened because it let us get to know the American Country Network. It turns out it's a great place. Its leaders are excellent people of the same values that we do. And we think that you do. American Country Network is a family, family friendly, conservative Christian group bringing the best country music to millions of households across the country. And it's growing fast. They launched just last year. They plan to reach 40 million homes in 2025. As the only Nashville based country music network left, there's only one American Country Network is here to stay. We really cannot recommend them highly enough to you, and we're grateful to them for their kindness to us. They did it for no reason other than to be nice. So we're especially grateful for that. We always are. So go to acncountry.com to enjoy everything they have, including their 24. 7 live stream. We hope you will. I'm sorry, I've gone so far, I feel, but. So your point is that dispensationalism not only has specious theological elements, which I think very obviously it does.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

By the way, the whole theology was like laid out in the end notes. It's not actually in the Bible.

[Andrew]

No.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's like interpretation in the version of the Bible.

[Andrew]

John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Schofield and it's. And there's, I mean, they'll claim that they're antecedents from the early church. Like, well, this guy believed in, in something like the Rapture. And it's like, it's always very, like you said, specious.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, that's, that's my read as a non theologian, but it does seem incredibly silly, but, but sincere. So. Okay.

[Andrew]

Yeah, people. Yeah, exactly. People sincerely believe it.

[Tucker Carlson]

So 100%. A lot of people I really like and respect.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I just want to say that. But you're saying that the cost is even deeper because it changes your worldview and makes it very difficult for you to engage in the labor of like, for example, loving people around you and building something beautiful, which are also Christian imperatives. Is that what you're saying?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I think so. And it, it also. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So.

[Andrew]

Forces you into, into an immediacy. Right. We got to do everything right now because there isn't going to be a future.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

There's not going to be. I mean, and I heard this all the time growing up. Well, you know, we're not going to be around. We're going to be raptured. So why, why plan for the future? Why build things for the future? Why?

[Tucker Carlson]

Heard that growing up.

[Andrew]

Oh yeah. This was, this was just everywhere in evangelicalism.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you grow up in that?

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. And I remember, I remember in college when I was first getting into more historical theology or thinking like, what did people believe before the 19th century about things?

[Tucker Carlson]

And it's like for the first 1800 years.

[Andrew]

Yeah. What did they. Well, they were. There are various different eschatological schools. Like, there's all sorts of different views of, of how the end works. But when I first get into that, I'm thinking like, oh, I don't know if I actually believe in the Rapture. And I remember being in college and in campus ministry and telling people this. Like, I don't know if I actually believe in that. I mean, it was, it was like I just uttered the greatest heresy of all time. Like I could have said, I, I Probably could have said, well, you know, just denied the Trinity or something. Right. And they would have been like, oh, well, that's interesting. But saying, I don't think there's a Rapture. What? Are you serious? Right. Like, that is central doctrine to, to many Christians. And, and it has this deep, you know, emotional connection because, I mean, if you've been, if you've grown up your entire life hearing this, and it's just assumed by everybody, Right. It's, it's hard to, to break out of that. Even though the. Everybody of the historic church of millions or billions of Christians. Right. It's actually a tiny minority in the history of the church that has believed that. But presently it's a majority of evangelicals.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, it seems like that theology is dying. That's just my sense, but I'd be the last to really know.

[Andrew]

No, I think your instincts are correct. I think some of it is. I mean, some of it, too, especially in the latter half of the 20th century, right after.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

Israel is formalized as a State in 1948. Well, that, that gives, like, big confirmation that, okay, things are happening. Like there's an Israel in Revelation and a temple in Revelation. So it's happening, guys. So we've got 40 years, right? 1988, that's the end. Well, then that doesn't happen. And then people make all sorts of other guesses.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I wasn't even aware of that. So the idea was 1988, saying that.

[Andrew]

40 years after 1948. Right. That that's when the Rapture is coming. That was a, you know, I think it was. There was a book like, 88 Reasons why Jesus is Coming back in 1988. Right. And I'm sure it sold a lot of copies. And then, of course, didn't. Didn't happen.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wow. But Mike Takakis lost. No, I mean, that's not obviously the rapture, but, you know, whatever.

[Andrew]

We'll take it for people in Massachusetts. Massachusetts, maybe it was. But, but yeah, it, it, it's. It's just so interesting because, like, I, I look at it like you look at Matthew 24, right? That's the big, you know, the big text that people point to. And what does it say where Jesus says, well, there, you know, there's going to be wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes in various places and plagues and, and things like that. But right before it, right. Well, Jesus is in the temple and he's fighting with the chief priests and he's telling them, you know, he's just, he's fighting with them at Passover. So thousands of people surrounding them. He's embarrassing them in the temple.

[Tucker Carlson]

And his boldness is really shocking. Yes. To people who haven't read it before.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

The rage that he displays at the leadership. Yes. The religious leadership is just like.

[Andrew]

Like it's nothing else.

[Tucker Carlson]

It comes right off the page.

[Andrew]

And. And which is so ironic because you see evangelicals who are like, you need to be more Christlike. Right. You need to be. Which means, like, wimpy and weak and.

[Tucker Carlson]

Inoffensive, sweeping into the temple and knocking over tables and driving people out with a whip.

[Andrew]

And then. And then going into the temple and giving this parable. Right where? Of the vineyard. Right. He's like, first I sent. I sent this servant. You beat him and. And stoned him. And then you killed the other. Another one. Well, I'll send my son. They'll respect him. And then it's the air, Right. If we kill him, we could take the vineyard for ourselves. Right. And. Yes. What's he going to do to these people? Well, he's gonna. He's gonna come and he's gonna destroy all of them. And it's like. And they knew, right? The hilarious thing, I think, like, reading the Gospels is right. Jesus is giving parables, and the point of the parables is actually to conceal what he's saying. And people are like, whoa, what's that? Even his own disciples are like, what? What's that about? I don't really know. Like, it doesn't make any sense. But he's telling parables to the chief priests and the Pharisees and all the leaders of Israel, and they're like, oh, that's about us.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think it says they understood. It was about them.

[Andrew]

They knew and they decided to kill him. Yeah. So they. They. The parables are, like, obscured everybody else, but when it's about them, like, oh, he's talking about us. Right. And. And, but.

[Tucker Carlson]

But talk about speaking truth to power. I mean, like. Yeah. I don't know how that Jesus was kept. For me as a. A, you know, lifelong churchgoer, I have no idea. Yeah, but you just read it. I would recommend everyone read it. Non Christians alike.

[Andrew]

He's there. He's right there. And especially the Gospel of Matthew, I love it because it is Mark too. All four. I mean, obviously all four of them. But, like, Matthew in particular is so cool to me because, like, you read it and the way it's organized is Jesus is recapitulating the entire history of Israel. Right. So right in the very beginning, he he goes out into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, right? Just like Israel's in the wilderness for 40 years, right? Is tempted by Satan. He comes right after. After he crosses the. Or goes. Is baptized in the Jordan. Is like crossing the Red Sea, goes into the wilderness. Then after that, right? He is. He's preaching a sermon on a mountain, expounding the law, which is. Which is Moses on Sinai, right? And. And after this, he's telling parables of the kingdom. Kingdom. Like he's. Like he's David or like he's Solomon writing proverbs, writing psalms. And then he begins all of these excoriations of. Of the high priesthood and the Pharisees and all the leaders of. Of Israel. Well, what's that like? It's like the prophets, right? So he's. He's reliving the whole history of Israel in his. His lifetime. What's Matthew doing there? What's the Holy Spirit doing there? It's showing that Jesus is Israel, right? He's the true Israel. Right. He is the. As. As the Apostle Paul says, he's the chosen seed of Abraham. Right. He's the one that carries out Israel's mission, which is. You just d. I'm. I'm kind of doing the weave, too. Like. Like, I'm doing the weave.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's. It's Trumpian.

[Andrew]

It is, yeah. People. I mean, when I'm preaching, people are like, Andrew, you're. You're doing the weave like President Trump. And I try not Trump.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's interesting.

[Andrew]

I try not to do the hand motions and things like him too, do. But we all have our own rhetorical style. But it. It's interesting because. Right. Like, the whole dispensational thing, where it's like, okay, right. The old Covenant still somehow sort of exists, and there's still this, you know, this distinction between Jew and gentile out there. Well, like, the whole New Testament talks about this. That. No, right. Those. That. That separation that existed in the old covenant, right. They're. They're brought together as one in Jesus, who is the true Israel, the true. The successful Israel, the Israel that's obedient and goes to the death and is vindicated by being resurrected. Right? And that old covenant, it's done. It's over. Those distinctions between Jew and gentile, they're gone.

[Tucker Carlson]

It says that only about a thousand times in every book of the New Testament. So to come to the opposite conclusion does make you sort of wonder. Like, have you read it?

[Andrew]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

Whether you believe it or not, that's Just not what it says at all.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And so you think about that and it's like, okay, these two are brought together. I mean, the whole Book of Acts is, is about this, right? That the, the, the Holy Spirit not only goes to the apostles and the Jews in, in Jerusalem, but the Gentiles get it too. Like Peter goes to Cornelius and he believes. And, and now here is this Roman, right, this Gentile. And, and the interesting thing about that too is there's this misconception that the only people in the Old Testament that believed in God were Jews. But it's like everywhere they go, there are these Gentile God fearers that believe in God. And Cornelius is one of them. In the New Testament.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it's all through the New Testament. And in fact, Jesus calls out repeatedly Gentiles as the most faithful. Repeatedly.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

The Roman officer.

[Andrew]

Yes, yes. Again, I mean, he says this in the Gospels. He's talking about the faithless and adulterous generation, right? He's talking about Israel and he's saying in, in the Resurrection, right? Sodom and Gomorrah and Tyre and Sidon, they'll. They'll rise, right? Right. Sodom destroyed for trying to rape angels. They will rise up in judgment on this generation. Because if the things that I'm doing, right, if the Son of God appeared to them and preached to them, they would have repented. Did, right. If. And, and, and Nineveh, right? This Gentile city in the Old Testament of Assyrians, right? Brutal, bloodthirsty people, right? Noah shows up or Jonah shows up and he, he preaches and his only message is 40 days, Nineveh is going to be destroyed, right? He's. He's gleeful about this. And the king hears about it. He. He repents. He makes all the people in the city. City wear sackcloth and ashes. And it's like, well, I don't really know what's going to happen, but this, this looks serious. We better repent. And, and it, I mean, we're going to go in the deep weeds here, if you let me. You know, this is. I'm not filibustering like, like President Putin did, but, but right, you look at the Book of Jonah in particular. He is. He. He flees not because he's afraid of the Assyrians, right? Like, that's the. What people think is like, he's scared to go there. No, like you read the end of the Book of Jonah and he, he's arguing with God at the end and he, he's saying, I knew that you would show mercy on these people, right? I knew you would show them mercy. That's why I didn't want to go, right? He's trying to. He was trying to outwit God, like trick God into nothing. Not being gracious to these Gentiles because he knows in. In the law, right? In Deuteronomy, right? One of the signs that Israel is about to be cursed is that he is going to call nations, right, The Gentiles, right? Nations that do not know him to himself. He's going to go to the Gentiles and away from Israel. And that means judgment is going to come upon Israel. So Jonah knows this. He's like, I am going the opposite direction. I'm going to Tarshish, to Spain. Yeah. Because I am not going to let God judge my people. Right? That's why he's angry about this. And it gets even more interesting because Jesus talks about the sign of Jonah to Israel and people think, oh, well, Jonah's. He's talking about the resurrection being in. In the ground for three days and three nights. And it's like that's. I mean, that's, that's symbolic. That's typological. He's drawing on the typology. But it's not about that. It's that what's going to happen. Gentiles are going to hear the Gospel and not you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, right.

[Andrew]

And that judgment is going to come on Israel, right? Judgment is going to come on this generation. And that's what Jesus says at the beginning of Matthew 24, is these things are going to happen in this generation, right? He's walking with the disciples in the temple and they're, they're marveling at the. We would marvel, too. I mean, beautiful, like the whole thing is clad in gold on the outside is gorgeous. Beautiful, giant. I mean, massive stones that you. It boggles your mind how megalith human beings could move these things and build this stuff without, you know, modern power tools, right? They're marveling at the. The temple. And Jesus says, what are you looking at? Do you not know that not one stone is going to be left upon another very soon? And they're like, oh, boy, when's this going to happen?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, 37 years later, actually.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Well, I think it's. It's.

[Tucker Carlson]

We could.

[Andrew]

We could debate, you know, whenever. But the 40 years later.

[Tucker Carlson]

But 40 years later.

[Andrew]

But I mean, I'll be autistic on that point.

[Tucker Carlson]

The second revolt, yeah, it's normally said to be 70.

[Andrew]

I think the resurrection is in 30. I mean, we're we're coming up on 2,000 years of.

[Tucker Carlson]

The point is the Romans. It's actually crazy, the effort that they. I mean, I'm sure you've been there to the site.

[Andrew]

I haven't. I. Maybe one day.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, you should go. Jerusalem is the most amazing city. And they. They've. Anyway, but. But they just went to such a great effort to separate every stone, destroy everything. So how much. They didn't just burn it and sack it. Okay, got it. But they actually dismantled it. Yes, piece by piece. How many slaves did that take? How much money did that take? How much effort, human effort did. Why would you do that? Why would you bother to do that?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So. Okay, I just want. And I'm so sorry for the discursions, but I want to get to your destination, which is Tennessee.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can you be a lot more specific about what you're doing there? I know there have been attempts to paint this as some sort of white supremacist enclave or theocracy or whatever. What actually is it? Can you describe it?

[Andrew]

No. So. So really it's. It's a, you know, a real estate venture to build. To build communities. To build. And, and I'm even hesitant, you know, to call it like subdivision, because it's not subdivisions. It'll be. It's large properties, you know, 2, 3, 10 acre lots where people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Has someone already bought the land?

[Andrew]

Big. Yeah. So ridge runners bought the parcels. It's being divided up and sold, you know, as we speak. And one of them, you know, my church is going to build a church, like right at the center. And so it's so imagine, you know, so there's kind of two kinds of development that happen. Or really just one kind. It's just build massive cul de sac subdivisions, houses for blackrock, that kind of thing. And. And like, that's not how America was built.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

Like, my town, you know, is founded in the. In the middle of the 19th century. And like the first thing that gets built, like everywhere else were churches.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Andrew]

And then schools. And that's not featured anywhere in any, you know, subdivisions or, or real estate developments at all.

[Tucker Carlson]

There's no place for people to congregate and have an actual community.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. Like you. You see all these ones. I mean, I've seen some of the plans in like, places around, like the Dallas Fort Worth area, where it's like they have a lazy river and they have all these nice amenities like that. There's never like a church. Right. There's never any. Anything that the old America once had. And, and so, so yeah, my church is going to build its building there. Families from all over the country, some of them know me, I've known them and they've been dying to get out of their blue state city, horrible existence out of the traditional subdivision into a place where they can have land where they can have some chickens, maybe a cow. Live like Americans used to.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And be out in nature and, and, and enjoy, you know, beautiful things. Right. To build something like that because that, that's happening like everywhere. Like it's development. Right. All, especially in Tennessee. Like it's, it's like here in Florida just exploding. Right. So many people moving there because they're trying to get out of these places. And, and so what gets built, right? Black rock style subdivisions and just hideous buildings. Yeah. And very anti human. Right. And, and so this is development that is, is human scaled. It's built for people to enjoy actual life. Right. For, for people to, to congregate in the same area where they hold, you know, similar values. Right. You don't want, you don't want to live in a place where everybody hates you and hates what you think and it hates that you, you love Donald Trump, you love your country, you love your God.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've done that.

[Andrew]

You don't, you don't want that. And, and tons of people, it was like, oh, wouldn't it be great if I had neighbors that, you know, we, we pretty much agreed on, on everything. We, we, we, you know, agree on everything politically, culturally, all of that where you, and then you don't even have to talk about it. It's just have normal, normal life together. Right. Your kids can play with their kids and, and grow up together. Right. That's, that's the kind of thing that, you know, that's being built there in Tennessee. And so I'm, I'm so excited to be a part of it.

[Tucker Carlson]

The fact that there's a church at the center of it is, is a red flag for the authorities in most places and certainly for the cultural commentators and the in, in the media and it was any other religious institution, of course it would be great. That would be your community.

[Andrew]

They're praising the, the Muslim communities in Texas, for instance. Yeah, right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or the illegal alien communities in Texas or whatever. But a Christian church is, is. And I don't think any Christian should be surprised. I mean the Bible says you're going to be persecuted for believing this, so. And they are. All right. Prediction come true.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

But tell us the response to this, this dangerous venture of Yours?

[Andrew]

Ah, well, you know, like locally, the people in town are, and, and in the surrounding area, even despite like the news attacking us and things like that, the people that I, that I, I've spoken to, the people I've met in the town are, are very, you know, they're, they're like, like very enthusiastic actually. That, yeah, especially when they see, you know, see the things that I do, see the podcast I do or various things like, oh, like you're not at all like the TV man said you are. And of course these are people that, you know, that we've been describing. Like, they don't trust the media, they don't trust journalists. So they're already, they're already dis. Distrusting of, of that. I'm like, oh, it just seems like you really like Donald Trump and the United States and Americans and the Constitution and our freedoms and like, you seem like a just normal, you know, conservative kind of guy. And I'm like, yeah, I, I am. That's. I'm an open, open book. Like there's no, you know, what you see is what you get. What I, what I believe, I earnestly believe. And so, so people are very, have been very, very kind.

[Tucker Carlson]

But the state legislature hasn't tried to. No, no mess with your zoning permits or anything like that. No.

[Andrew]

And, and, and, and the, the thing is, it's like, well, the, the company itself is not saying, well this is a community like that would, you know, violate the Fair Housing act right to say this is a Christian only community. It's just that my church is allowed to build a ch. There's no law against that at all. And, and I can, I can call up friends and say, hey, you want to move here and be part of our thing? That's like, oh, the cost of living is extremely low. Like, there's no, there's no income tax in Tennessee, just like, like Florida. And, and so it's, it's. Especially compared to large cities, you know, much, much cheaper place to live. So a lot of people are like, oh wow, it's only going to cost me this much for a home. It would cost me two or three times that. If I were to build something like this and I get land to have.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are, are houses being built there?

[Andrew]

There's starting to be. Yeah, yeah. My, my, my friend CJ Actually is right in the, right in the beginning stages of, of building his, his dream house. He's going to be one of the first ones.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's quite a concept. Do you think that. And you've written A book about this called the, the Boniface Option, which was controversial but also loved like all good things.

[Andrew]

Maybe you're speaking self referentially, but, or.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, no, no, no, no, I'm not. No, I was just saying like, you know, it's pistachio ice cream. You know, like, not everyone loves it, but the people who do really do really do. Yeah. So. But I think you suggest that, that like it's, it's time for, yeah. For first sincere Christians to be in fellowship with each other, like physically.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, especially because, you know, you see, you know, sort of like online communities where, where people are like, oh, I, I, I like this pastor. I like the, you know, sermons that he preaches or I, I, I, I agree with this theology and I'm being, you know, formed in shape and you kind of, you band into, into groups online where you, you sort of self, sort and, and there are these massive communities on, on the Internet. It's like, well, what if, what if we took that this like digital community that exists and what if we made it in real life? Right? What would that that be like? Right? And that's kind of sort of what, at least, at least for me, what I'm trying to do is what if we bring people together in real life? What kind of stuff can we do? Like I'm trying to just make it on my own. Right. Just eke out an existence. But what if we all did that, that together and multiplied, you know, our, our respective bandwidths. Right? What kind of stuff would we be.

[Tucker Carlson]

Able to, and you talk to businesses there too.

[Andrew]

Yeah, people are already moving their, their businesses there. Yeah. And, and the, the exciting thing is. And it wouldn't be just like the people moving in, right? They're the only ones working at these businesses. Like it will, it will help the people that are from there, the local community, which is, you know, throughout the, you know, because of macroeconomic forces, geopolitical things, things that were done to our country, all, all the manufacturing and, and real good jobs that used to exist in a place like this. Those are all mostly gone. And so what would it look like if we brought those things back? Right? How would it, how would it bless the people in that area? Right? That's, that's a major part of it. Yeah. And, and so, so that's the exciting thing is. Whoa. We come to a place like this, we bring our friends that have, some of them have remote jobs and good incomes. People will spend money locally and businesses will spring up because of that. People will bring businesses and need Employees and the people in the area will flourish in a way that they haven't for quite a while. Style.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's the pioneer spirit. For people who are interested, what's the name of it? This again?

[Andrew]

Ridge Runner. So the Highland Rim Project.

[Tucker Carlson]

Highland Rim Project.

[Andrew]

Highland Rim Project, yeah. So the website is ridgerunnerusa.com. yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I have one last question for you. Do you expect, I mean, what you described in your home state, in your hometown, it's basically the persecution of Christians, the people who built the United States States. And that is a trend. Where do you expect that trend to go to the extent you can predict it?

[Andrew]

That's the most difficult thing, of course. Always making predictions, of course. But I think it will go in two directions. So you have the left. I mean, you see this right now, just how violent they are. They're just itching to destroy things, destroy people. They're burning Teslas. They burn. They shot President Trump. Right. They, they're very, very, very violent people. And of course, like, the political apparatus on their side loves that. Right. They never condemn it. They never say these things. And we saw the youth brigades. Yeah. In 2020. Right. The same, the same, exact, exact thing. And so I think, you know, and there have been, you know, instances of churches being, you know, shot at and burned down and, and, and bombed and things like this. I think those kind of things will, will continue to happen and continue to get worse, especially in blue states and blue cities where it's basically allowed, you know, George Soros just handpicks all the prosecutors, and they're not going to enforce these laws. And, but on, on the flip side, they're, they're, they're still like tens of millions of Christians, very conservative evangelicals. And, and the like, they, they just got President Trump elected. Right. And, and political power is being wielded. And that, and that's always, that's always the thing is, like, for, for so many years, we were told that, no, no, no, we, our enemies have all this political power, but we, we're going to restrain ourselves. We're going to follow the Constitution and we're just going to expect them to disarm themselves for reasons. And that sort of way of thinking among conservatives is quickly being discarded, that the only thing you could do is confront power with power. And President Trump and Vice President Vance, they're wielding power. And that wielding of power is going to defend Christians in this country.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes, it will.

[Andrew]

And, and so I, I think, like, that conflict will continue to become more stark. Right. The two visions for the country will, will become more black and white, right? It will become more obvious that, that Christians need to band together to leave places where they have no protection, action whatsoever. Where people like Tim Walls or, or the, the next governor of Minnesota, probably Keith Ellison, who's an antifa Muslim, like, they, I mean, that was a terrifying thing too. It's like this guy, probably, maybe he knows who I am and what, what could that guy do to me, right? To leave a place like that where you will very likely be persecuted. Right? They, they want to have a foil like the whole thing on, on Christian nationalism. I mean, this is why, why, why I wrote a book on that is in 2022, the media is just attacking like normal, decent evangelical people that happen to like Donald Trump and have skepticism about the election, the vaccine, everything and, and make them the boogeyman. And they, they would always say white Christian nationalism. They always put those things together because they happen to be white. And even though they espouse no white nationalist tendencies at all, they have no race theology whatsoever. Whatsoever at all. Like, they're, they're like, well, I'm totally colorblind.

[Tucker Carlson]

They have a universalist theology, absolutely un. Unlike the fascists who run the US Media, who are like Nazi race mongers.

[Andrew]

Total, totally race.

[Tucker Carlson]

How many people of color? We're going to count you by race, which they literally do in this country. Who's the Nazi?

[Andrew]

I know, I know. That's their.

[Tucker Carlson]

They don't do that in church. People come to your church. Like, how many blacks do we have today? How many Hispanics? How many Pacific Islanders? Don't. You're like, we have Christians.

[Andrew]

Well, the evangelical leadership definitely does, right?

[Tucker Carlson]

They, well, they've fallen for this stuff.

[Andrew]

Yeah, of course.

[Tucker Carlson]

But, but never forget how poisonous it is.

[Andrew]

Absolutely. Yeah, I think, yeah, it is. It's like, well, no, we just have Christians, right? And so, no, I think, I think those, those trends will continue. And, but I'm, I'm hopeful. I'm optimistic. Like, I'm espousing this optimistic eschatology. So of course I'm, I'm optimistic. I'm always, always hoping for the very best. And I, I think that especially if the kind of evangelical Christianity, right, historic Christianity, the Christianity that built Christendom, that built the west, that built America, if that comes back, the kind of Christianity that sees Jesus in the Gospels like we were talking about earlier, and sees a man, a man that is on a mission and is totally courageous and attacking God's enemies right to their face, knowing it's going to get him killed, Right. That kind of Christianity that preaches like that, that speaks like that, that. That sees a God that is real and is. Is. Is your God. And he is. He. He loves you and he. He loves what's true and good and right. And there's justice. And he is going to bring justice to all of his enemies, right? To all of the people that hate him, all the people that. That do just monstrous evil. Right. That kind of Christianity that makes it come back in America. Well, that's. That's an America that has a future.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have to say, I think that the hallmarks of courage among them are cheerfulness and optimism. I do think that.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you have that. Oh, you know, for a dangerous theocratic fascist, you seem very optimistic and cheerful. So. Thank you for spending all this. I really appreciate it.

[Andrew]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was great to meet you.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's nice meeting you as well.

[Tucker Carlson]

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