Chris Cella: Opioids, Robbing the Mafia, Burning Down the Entourage House, and How God Saved Him

Summary

Summary of "Chris Cella: Opioids, Robbing the Mafia, Burning Down the Entourage House, and How God Saved Him"

Published on May 2, 2025, on The Tucker Carlson Show hosted by the Tucker Carlson Network.

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1. Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Tucker Carlson Show, Tucker Carlson engages in a deeply personal and harrowing conversation with Chris Cella. Cella shares his tumultuous journey through opioid addiction, his confrontations with the criminal underworld, the shortcomings of rehab systems, and ultimately, his path to recovery empowered by faith and intrinsic motivation.

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2. Family Background and Early Life

Chris Cella opens up about his upbringing in Southern California, highlighting a family plagued by addiction. Despite his family's professional stature—his father serving as a general counsel for a Texas oil company and his mother being a disciplined long-distance runner—addiction ran deep.

• [02:07] Cella: "My sister... had a serious issue with bulimia and anorexia... witnessing all of this at a very young age."
• [02:26] Cella: "There is a genetic component to, you know, kind of the addictive personality, you know? Absolutely. 100%."

His father's battle with alcoholism—achieved through sheer willpower without formal support groups—and his mother's struggle with opioid addiction after a diving accident shed light on the complex interplay of genetics and environment in addiction.

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3. Journey into Addiction

Cella recounts how, during his high school years, the lack of familial structure and support led him to seek acceptance among peers, diving into substance use as a means to bolster his self-esteem and fit in.

• [10:03] Cella: "I started drinking, you know, smoking cigarettes and smoking weed... to fit in."

This initial experimentation with alcohol and marijuana escalated rapidly as he sought stronger substances to maintain the elevated self-worth he initially experienced.

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4. Escalation to Heroin Use

Within months, Cella's drug use intensified, transitioning from smoking heroin to injecting it, seeking the more intense and immediate high that injected use provided.

• [14:35] Cella: "You develop a tolerance and you just need more and more to get to that... you're never going to get it again."

His first experience with injecting heroin occurred during his sophomore year, marking a significant escalation in his addiction trajectory.

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5. Encounters with the Criminal Underworld

Cella details alarming interactions with individuals connected to the Mexican mafia, illustrating the dangerous intersections between addiction and organized crime.

• [20:28] Cella: "I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat, said, don't move."

These confrontations not only exposed him to physical danger but also entangled him further in illegal activities, such as robbery and distribution of heroin.

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6. Struggles with Rehabilitation

Cella's numerous attempts at rehabilitation reveal systemic flaws within the rehab industry. His experiences ranged from state-run facilities with rigid, boot camp-like structures to halfway houses rife with corruption and devil-may-care attitudes towards drug use.

• [38:43] Cella: "The detox centers... They see you as an insurance policy with a heartbeat."

Despite attending over 15 rehab centers, Cella struggled to find effective treatment, often facing environments where addiction was not adequately addressed but rather exploited for profit.

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7. Insights on the Opioid Crisis and Rehab System

The conversation delves into the broader opioid epidemic, critiquing government policies and the failings of the rehab system to provide genuine support and recovery pathways.

• [72:23] Cella: "Addicts are some of the most resourceful, intelligent people on the planet... if you can, you know, separate them from the drug and turn that into something that's good."

He emphasizes the need for intrinsic motivation in recovery, arguing that external interventions alone are insufficient without personal commitment to change.

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8. Recovery and Personal Transformation

Cella shares his turning point—an introspective moment fueled by substance use leading to a spiritual awakening. This epiphany, combined with unwavering support from his family and faith, propelled him towards sobriety.

• [76:17] Cella: "I was like, I have so much more to offer the world... I have people who love me."
• [84:40] Cella: "When I quit in 2016... my brain hasn't fully returned to where it was before, but I feel fundamentally different."

His journey underscores the critical role of personal agency and supportive relationships in overcoming addiction.

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9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Wrapping up the conversation, Cella reflects on the societal and systemic changes needed to address addiction effectively. He criticizes policies that inadvertently enable addicts and stresses the importance of fostering environments that encourage personal growth and self-respect.

• [85:04] Cella: "We should not be setting up like little... you should not say, you know, rehab is a cure or AA is a cure."

Carlson and Cella conclude with a shared understanding of the devastating impact of addiction and the urgent need for comprehensive, compassionate, and effective solutions.

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Notable Quotes

• [01:04] Cella: "It's a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict, but they're making money at every stop."

• [14:57] Cella: "The addiction makes you insane... you're never really going to get back there, but you're still trying."

• [77:47] Cella: "Heroin doesn't quite do the damage to your complexion. But like inwardly, it's worse."

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Final Reflections

Chris Cella's candid recounting offers a raw and unfiltered look into the struggles of opioid addiction, the perilous environments that often accompany it, and the elusive nature of recovery. His story serves as a compelling call to action for societal and policy reforms to better support individuals battling addiction.

Transcript

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Chris]

I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat, said, don't move.

[Tucker Carlson]

Making me tense, man, just telling me this story.

[Chris]

And he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack, and pimping them out, and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox. And guess who gets a kickback? The Detox Center.

[Tucker Carlson]

No way.

[Chris]

It's a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict, but they're making money at every stop.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is disgusting.

[Chris]

And then she pulls out a handgun.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

She's like, what the are you doing in my house? My kids are in there. And I'm like, oh, my God, you have kids. If you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty mom.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you insult the lady with the gun.

[Chris]

Point.

[Tucker Carlson]

Gut balls. I'll say that. Thanks for doing this, Chris. How. How long were you addicted to opioids?

[Chris]

So I was addicted to opioids from the age of 15 to 23. Kind of on and off, you know, in and out of rehab for eight.

[Tucker Carlson]

Years, but, yeah, 15 to 23.

[Chris]

How. How did.

[Tucker Carlson]

Where'd you grow up?

[Chris]

So I grew up in. I was born in Dallas, grew up in south Orange county, moved there when I was five, kind of bounced around, but all in kind of relatively the same area.

[Tucker Carlson]

Southern California.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Southern California, Orange county. And my sister or my family. You know, the addiction kind of just runs in my family, like my.

[Tucker Carlson]

As it does many.

[Chris]

Yeah, right. I. You know, I do believe it is. There is a genetic component to, you know, kind of the addictive personality, you know? Absolutely. 100%.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. Think how much. How much alcoholism is there in Israel, how much alcoholism is there in Sweden, you know, It's a big difference.

[Chris]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, you know, my. So. So growing up, my dad was. He was a general counsel at an Oil company in Texas. So he was traveling a lot. And he was also a heavy drinker. He would. He's not the type of person who, like, needed to wake up and, you know, drink in the morning to function, but would go on benders, you know, for days, weeks at a time. And. And then my. My mom, she was a long distance runner and she had a diving accident that left her. Basically, she was a victim of big Pharma's push in the early to mid-90s for OxyContin and then eventually Fentanyl. And, you know, this little pathetic pill pushing quack is, you know, giving her just massive amounts of oxycontin and she didn't like the way she. She hated the way it felt. And she. She's like, I don't like this. You know, it's making me, like, comatose. And the doctor's like, well, you need to keep taking it. And so she. She decided to flush them down the toilet once. And. And she went into excruciating withdrawal. And, you know, I'll touch more on withdrawal later, but it's. Yeah, she. So she.

[Tucker Carlson]

Were your parents married?

[Chris]

Yes, yes, yes, they were married.

[Tucker Carlson]

Your dad's the general counsel of a big company. Your mom is a distance runner. So these are like competent people who've got their act together. These are not like, this is not the junkie profile.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. Like my father, he was. He graduated college at 19 and he went to Columbia Law School. I mean, you know, so.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, wow.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay. I'm sorry. Because I think that. I think it's important to set this in a socioeconomic frame.

[Chris]

Yeah. Because there's. Yeah. Addiction does not, you know, it does not. It doesn't matter whether you're rich, poor, black, white, whatever. You know, it's indiscriminatory. Indiscriminatory. So.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Chris]

So, yeah. My.

[Tucker Carlson]

So this doctor keeps pushing opioids on your mom.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

By the way, to be a distance runner. I admire that. But it suggests, like, true self discipline, high level of awareness of your body. I mean, who's a distance runner? You know, only people who are very, very into fitness and very, very kind of like batten down people.

[Chris]

Right, Correct. Yeah, yeah. No. My mom was absolutely, you know, one of the most disciplined people that I've ever met.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, you kind of have to be.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, a lot of long just running to me is absolutely. Sounds like.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it's torture. It is torture.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it's highly impressive.

[Chris]

Yeah. No, it is. Absolutely. And so, you know, she had these multiple surgeries that only exacerbated the issue.

[Tucker Carlson]

And a neck injury.

[Chris]

Yeah, a neck injury that she got from. It wasn't related to her long distance running, but it was diving. Diving incident. She hit her neck on the diving board. And. And so, yeah, this guy's. First. She's pushing OxyContin on her, and then he says, okay, well, let's try something different. It might be less like, you know, less addictive, possibly. You know, because fentanyl, it's brand new and, you know, might. Might work. Make you feel a little bit better to where you can function throughout the day. So he puts her on fentanyl. And fentanyl is so powerful. No, no, it's. I mean, it's. It's. Yeah, you have to laugh, otherwise you'll cry because it's like fentanyl is the most. So powerful that it has to be administered in micrograms, like, you know, like the 25 micrograms, whereas most drugs are administered in milligrams. So, like, that just shows you how potent.

[Tucker Carlson]

How many kids does your mom have?

[Chris]

Three. So.

[Tucker Carlson]

So she's got three kids. She's married to a general counsel of a company. She lives in Southern California. She's a distance runner. All of a sudden, she's on fentanyl.

[Chris]

Yeah. Oh, no, she. Well, she was living in Dallas when she became addicted to the fentanyl. Or add the oxy, at least. Yeah. And then when we moved to Southern California. We moved to Southern California. My dad started his own practice with his brother. They were both lawyers. So. And then. Yeah, so my sister. And then my sister, she had a serious issue with bulimia and anorexia from the age of 10 to 28. Like, so serious that, you know, her potassium levels were so low that ambulances at our home were like a regular occurrence. And there was multiple times when they said, you know, your daughter might make it. Not Might. Might not make it to, you know, to my father. And so witnessing all of this at a very young age. And again, I'm not trying again, I just want to, like, preface. This is not an excuse for my actions. Like, I own everything that I did and all the terrible things that I did. It's not. But I think that the chaos that I had, that I, you know, basically, I didn't have this. The necessary things like structure and discipline that I think are so important for everyone, but especially for people with addictive. Addictive personalities to. To have that, you know, that rigid Kind of I'm going to wake up, I'm going to make my bed, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And so like my parents, I was never sure I knew my parents loved me. Like my parents, they. I was never, you know, short on that, but they were so busy trying to deal with my sister and, you know, and their own issue. My father, he's been, he's been off. Stop drinking. He just cold, Cold turkey. Stop drinking for. It's been 25 years now. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Good man.

[Chris]

Yeah. And you know, he never went to AA or anything like that. And so. So again, it's, you know, addiction or, you know, treatment can be as simple as, you know, going to therapy. It doesn't have to include, you know, rehab and all these different things. But. So, yeah, my. So and then your mom, she. So she eventually switched over to Suboxone from Fentanyl and then she weaned herself off of that. So now she's. Yeah, totally. And Suboxone is a miracle drug. I mean, compared to like the alternative, which is methadone, which is so, so addictive, it gets into your bone marrow. I mean, the, the withdrawals from that, I've heard, are much worse than, you know, your average opiate or even heroin, just because it's, it's more drawn out and. Yeah. Terrible.

[Tucker Carlson]

What a nightmare. So she got better.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

And your dad got better. But you grew up in an environment where there was a lot of this going on.

[Chris]

Yeah. And so, yeah. And lacking that structure, it made me, you know, I think it led to a sense of low self esteem and, and the constant need for the approval of others. Like, I look back now and I'm like, you know, why the fuck do I. Did I care so much about what other people thought?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And it's. I guess, you know, I can't, you know, but after years of therapy, they've kind of pinpointed as to like, you know, you know, your quote unquote inner child didn't get enough emotional nourishment, so to speak. And so, yeah, you know, I was so constantly trying desperately to fit in. So, you know, when I got into middle school, high school, and you know, I was, you know, honor roll student, very, very, you know, I was very. I'm, you know, I have a high iq. I was blessed with that. But once I got into like, college, where you actually have to start kind of like trying a little bit like algebra 2 and, and whatnot, I. I was like, you know, because I started hanging out with kids who were smoking weed, drinking and smoking cigarettes. So not that I necessarily wanted to smoke weed, drink and smoke cigarettes, but that's what they were doing. So I wanted, you know, I wanted their approval. I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be a part of the cool crowd. And so I started drinking, you know, smoking cigarettes and smoking weed. And so that went on for, you know, I quit the wrestling team. I, you know, I pretty much abandoned everything that, you know, was positive, you know, all the positive things that I was doing for my life and just kind of became a stoner. And, And I know a lot of kids who were potheads in high school that I'm friends with that are more successful than I today. So I'm not trashing them at all. But I mean, then what happened was it progressed to the. Because I was in advanced placement classes, so I was in algebra 2 as a sophomore where it was mostly juniors and seniors in the class. And so I started hanging out with the juniors and seniors and they were doing, it's called oxymorphone or Opana. Opana. They were, you know, snorting that, taking Xanax, pills, stuff like that. And, and my stoner buddies, where were.

[Tucker Carlson]

They getting the pills?

[Chris]

So they were getting them. There was pretty much. We had like one source and he was a guy that just lived in, down the street in an apartment complex.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's always a guy in an apartment complex, isn't it?

[Chris]

Yeah, for sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I've been to those apartment complexes.

[Chris]

And he, he, his grand was getting prescription drug, getting these prescription drugs and just had like a boatload of them. So, you know, he would sell them for 60 bucks a pop and you know, we would buy them. But eventually, you know, that it becomes too expensive, the pill habit becomes too expensive. And that's why so many people transition to heroin. But you know, even my stoner friends were like, hey, you should, like, you should try to steer clear of those guys over there. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna take your heaping loads of moral condemnation, stoner. But in reality, it's like when the potheads are telling you that to stay away from these kids, you know, they're bad.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, no, that's right.

[Chris]

Like, yeah. And so, you know, of course, you know, my. Again, that low self esteem, that desire to fit in, started using pills and opiates in particular, they took away that feeling of that, like that low self worth. I felt, I was confident. I, you know, I felt great. At the beginning, in the beginning, in the very early Stages of my addiction. So like the first, you know, two, three months and I had a job, I was a telemarketer at a golf club selling quote unquote custom made made clubs. They're literally made in a warehouse underneath the call center by illegals. And there it was either graphite or steel and they might give you extra grips on the clubs. That's the extent of the quote unquote, the customization. Yeah, but comparable to the tailor made R11, ye know. Okay. Yeah. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you're selling custom faux customade golf clubs from a call center.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, and you know, go in the car, do a line of opana and come back in and it's just like oh my gosh, you know, I have more confidence and I'm pushing, pushing harder on the sales and things like, and, and, and my sales numbers are going up. So I'm like, why would I stop when this is like I feel great about myself. I'm performing better at work.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

So you know, I saw it as like there's like, there's no downside until.

[Tucker Carlson]

Totally fair question. And by the way, there have been a lot of as you know, artists, jazz musicians, you know, who used opioids because they thought it increased their, you know, ability, it enhanced their performance.

[Chris]

Yeah. And I think you know, it to an extent it can, but that is short lived. It is not, you know, it's temporary because especially with opiates, they again, they can what they do, they literally they erode your soul and you're eventually going to run out of money and, and you're going to have to get desperate. And so, so what happened in your.

[Tucker Carlson]

Case, you started by doing a line in your car during work.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, and then it kind of just progressed. You know, I was like doing like, you know, one, one pill, 140 milligram pill every couple days to two every couple days to you know, and just kept going up and up and the cost was getting too expensive.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why, why did you use more? You developed a tolerance?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. You, you, you quickly develop a tolerance and. Yeah, and you just need more and more to get to that because you're always chasing that first high. You know, you're never going to get it again. But that's what like you know, the chasing the dragon. You're always trying to get to that level but you're never going to get there.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right? No, I think it's, I'm. Yeah. I mean I think every childhood weed smoker remembers that first time when you just like burst into Laughter hysterically with your buddies. And it's like the funnest, funniest thing that's ever happened in your life. And it's like. It's true. It is fun. I mean, that's truly fun. But that doesn't ever happen again.

[Chris]

Yeah, no, it's. And. And you. You. You're so desperate to try to get back there, and that kind of, you know, the whole, like, you know, addiction makes you insane. It's like, you know, you're never really going to get back there, but you're still trying. And so addiction makes you insane.

[Tucker Carlson]

That is true.

[Chris]

Yeah. I mean, you know, like the definition of insanity. Trying things over and over again, expecting the different result, especially when you get into the point where you're like, you're trying to get sober and like, okay, yeah, this hasn't worked 15 times. Maybe it'll work the 16th. Why? And so. But, yeah, that. So I was. Yeah, so it progressed very quickly.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you're in, like, 10th grade at this point.

[Chris]

Yeah, 10th grade, yeah. And progressed within, I don't know, maybe like, two, three months to buying heroin up in, you know, South Los Angeles. And what was that like? Wild, dude. So, you know, basically what happened was when we met this guy, I think he was at, like, the continuation school down the street from our high school. And.

[Tucker Carlson]

What's continuation school?

[Chris]

It's like, basically, if you get, like, booted out of, you know, a regular high school, it's kind of like. It's kind of like a way to get a. Get a diploma without having to get a ged, but, like, it's like kind of like a. It's like a bootleg.

[Tucker Carlson]

Nice. So some of the kids who've had a bumpy road are in the continuation school?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. For. For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean. I mean, they even, like, they like. Even though there was, like, mostly kids under the age of 18, they had a little smoking section at the school.

[Tucker Carlson]

I grew up with that.

[Chris]

Yeah. And I. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a nicotine fiend. I vape. But I quit smoking cigarettes. I was like, you know, I. And I was. Honestly, I was pretty impressed with myself that I was able to do that, because that was almost. I don't want to say almost as hard, but very difficult and, you know, trying to get rid of that addiction, you know, compared to my opiate addiction. But, you know, just.

[Tucker Carlson]

I quit drinking and drugs at. At 33, and I quit cigarette smoking at 45. So that tells you.

[Chris]

Right on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It. It's yeah, it's hard. It's really a hard addiction to break. And I'm still addicted to nicotine, you know.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. But I'm enjoying it. I will say, Chris.

[Chris]

Yeah, me too.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Chris]

The credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough. This is Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. Our legislation, the Credit Card Competition act, would help end the Grip Visa and MasterCard have on us. Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they begin raising it without even telling you. This hurts consumers and every small business owner. In fact, American families are paying eleven hundred dollars in hidden swipe fees each year. The Fees Visa and MasterCard charge Americans are the highest in the world. Double Canada's and eight times more than Europe's. That's why I've taken action. But I need your help. To help get this passed, I'm asking you to call your state senator today and demand they pass the Credit Card Competition Act.

[Tucker Carlson]

Paid for by the Merchants Payments Coalition, not authorized by any candidate or Candidates Committee. Www.merrestancespaymentscoalition.com okay, so 10th grade, all of a sudden you go from like doing like bumps of some ground up oxy derivative pill at the. At the golf sales place to driving to South Los Angeles. I'm sorry I stepped on your story. You meet this kid from the continuation school and he's your heroin connection?

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What's he like?

[Chris]

Just some, just like slimy, just dirt bag. I mean, I don't. Yeah, I mean, just. Yeah, just some guy that, you know, we were only. The only reason we associated with him was because he had that connection. Yeah, not exactly, you know, he's the type of guy who'd steal your wallet and help you look for it, but again, that's. Most junkies are.

[Tucker Carlson]

Was he using heroin too?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. He was a big user and he was actually RIP I found out he was ripping us off when I got a direct connection. And he was basically saying it was double the price for the amount because you get like a. You get a little package with 12 balloons in it and it was $45, and he was saying it was $90. So he's able to like get to pocket one and give one and give one to us.

[Tucker Carlson]

So did you have to go with him to South L. A?

[Chris]

Yeah, we would drive him. He didn't have a. You know, I would drive him in my. My 1998 Jeep and we'd all just pile in there. And this. The feds were watching like these, like they literally. There was an article in the OC Register, I think it came out while I was in rehab, but basically just kind of giving an overview of the whole thing. The number you'd call, the guy's name was boss. So you called his phone number. And. And this guy goes, all right, what do you want? And you tell him how many packs you want. And then he's like, all right, meet. And it would be like one of three freeway exits, you know, right in that area. And like always like a fast food parking lot, something like that, you know.

[Tucker Carlson]

What town is?

[Chris]

Southgate.

[Tucker Carlson]

Boy, that's just depressing that area. So.

[Chris]

So, yeah, so you're meeting in like.

[Tucker Carlson]

In and out burger or Wendy's or something?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Just. Yeah, some. Yeah, we can just pull in real quick. And then they'd. They. You'd meet the. They would always send a runner. And usually it was a different person, but I started, you know, so, yeah, they'd meet you, they'd say, all right, you know, come into the car that you get into the passenger seat, they reach into the, the air vent, pull it out, give you the. Give you the dope, give them the money. Boom.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you have to get into their car.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What were the guys, like, who were selling it?

[Chris]

You know, this is, this is the, kind of one of the crazier things about this whole. This whole experience. So the runner that I had the most contact with, he was, you know, he's a cool guy. Just this little Hispanic guy, you know, I mean, obviously a gang banger who would, you know, shoot you as soon as look at you. But he was very, you know, very nice to me. And, you know, he would give me discounts occasionally. And he actually finally, he was like, hey, you know what? You no longer have to call boss. You can just hear, I'll give you my personal line and you can just call me. And then, you know, have to save you the hassle of going through the whole. The whole process. I was like, all right, cool, man. Thanks. And so, you know, we developed a kind of, you know, friendship, I guess, and probably the wildest story that I have. So we. So my friends from south Orange county, again, very affluent, you know, I don't know if you've heard of, like, Nelly Gale in south Orange County. It's like, it's like one of the ritziest neighborhoods in the country. It's got like horse trails running through it, you know, and, you know, the houses are like a minimum, you know, $5 million. So, yeah, it's a very nice area, very affluent area. And that's where pretty much all my friends lived. And. But this girl we knew, her uncle was. Owned the house. Have you seen the show Entourage? Have you heard of it? Yeah, yeah. So he owned the house that at least like two seasons of the show were filmed in. And she's like, yeah, we can go up there for the weekend. I was like, oh, awesome. And so it's funny, we drive all the way to Beverly Hills, like two and a half hour drive, and up this private road to this, you know, beautiful mansion. The door's locked. And. And she kind of lied or, you know, misled us about having permission to go to the house. And so I'm like, are you. And anyways, excuse me. So I ended up finding I saw like a door sized window, like on the side of the house. And so I maneuvered my way up there, pushed on the door, and it just popped open. I was like, waiting for an alarm to go off. I like, okay, so I walk in, open the front door, and. And we're in. And. And then I was like, oh, man, I really need some. Some heroin, but I don't want to drive down to Southgate, you know. And so I called the guy and I was like, hey, man, we've got a huge mansion. You know, there's only like seven of us.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is why you don't let your niece bust into your house with her junkie buddy.

[Chris]

We'll just wait. And I was like, yeah, you know, if you want to. If you can. You know, I know you don't typically. Typically do deliveries, but if you could bring me an order, you know, you're welcome to stay and bring whomever you want. So he brings like two. Two big. Two big Mexican dudes and like 10 big booty Latina. Beautiful, beautiful chicks. Like. Yeah. And a candy dish with all these different pills. Valium, Xanax, you know, Oxy's, just all that and at least an eight ball of coke. A giant bag of coke. And that was. Those were just party favors. And he brought me my order, obviously, but. And so we spent the night partying, you know, hanging out in the indoor pool, you know, doing lines off of, you know, girls stomachs. And it was a wild, crazy time. I mean, it was like, literally like the show entourage, but like junkie version. It's just going on.

[Tucker Carlson]

Unbelievable.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did the uncle ever come back?

[Chris]

Well, so the next morning and. Thank God.

[Tucker Carlson]

Were you in high school at this point?

[Chris]

Yeah, I was. I was 16, I think.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's.

[Chris]

It's so like, because I was. I was going back and trying to, like, remember things, and it's like some of it is so blurry that it's hard to like, wait when. How old was I and have to like, kind of like.

[Tucker Carlson]

I grew up in that area, so I know what you're talking about.

[Chris]

And so, yeah, the next morning, myself and a few other people leave.

[Tucker Carlson]

And did you sleep at all or just play through?

[Chris]

No, no, I didn't. Slept. Didn't sleep for a second. And yeah, left the next morning with a few of my buddies and. And the. The gang bangers departed.

[Tucker Carlson]

And the big booty Latina girls, too?

[Chris]

Yes, yes, they left as well. And so, you know, I go back to Orange county, and the next day a police officer comes to our house, and it's like a female investigator and she's, like, asking me questions like, were you at this house? And blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I was there on. She's like, were you there, like, Saturday? I was like, no, I was there Friday. I was like, I was there Friday. I was told we were allowed to be there because I thought it was breaking, entering. That's what I assumed. And so I was like, I was told we were supposed to be there, allowed to be there. And, you know, so. And she's like, well, you're not aware that portion of the house was burned down? And I'm like, no, what are you talking about? And so she proceeds to tell me the story. Apparently, some of the other people that the girl invited out for the next night, one person got really high, fell asleep with, like, a frozen pizza in the oven or something like that and started a fire. And instead of, like, trying to put it out, they, like, just left.

[Tucker Carlson]

And drug addicts are all the same, aren't they?

[Chris]

And so there's, like, literally smoke billowing from this, and it's, like, on a hill, like, too. So, like, you can see it from, like. Like, a very far away.

[Tucker Carlson]

It is called Beverly Hills.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, like, they're driving down the hill as the fire, you know, the ambulance and the cops are coming up the hill. And the cop flips a U, and he's like, because it's a private road, it only leads to that house. And so they're like, are you leaving that house? They're like, no, you know, idiots. No, of course not. We weren't there. You know, lying, lying, lying. And then the cops are like, come on. So, you know, and the. I think one of them ended up getting charged with, like, fleeing the scene of a crime or something like that, but nothing serious came out of it. But, yeah, it was wild. And, like, when she told me that.

[Tucker Carlson]

I was like, how did they know you were there?

[Chris]

Because the. The house owner basically gave her a list of everyone who was there. Like, the girl who took us out there basically gave the investment.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it was her uncle's house.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He owned it.

[Tucker Carlson]

So as you're doing lines off the Navels of Big Booty Latinas with your gang banger heroin dealer buddy in some girl's uncle's house where Entourage was filmed, what are your parents thinking at this point of, like, what you're doing?

[Chris]

Well, my parents, you know, God bless them, they're so naive and, like, in my. And my dad, you know, had this consistent belief that, you know, our kids will do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because of the consequence that could come from it. And, you know, as. You know, as noble as that is, it's just, it. It doesn't work. You know, you. You have to have consequences, otherwise you will run rampant and think you can do whatever you want.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And that's how it is. It's not.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't judge him. I grew up around. I mean, they sound like Southern Californians in their attitude that way. Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, you know. Yeah, my dad was just, you know, very, you know, had a very strong moral conviction that, you know, he believed just was passed on to us. And so. So my parents were. Again, you know, had no idea what was going on until kind of another story, basically. Long story short, I had a friend who was put into a coma. We were at a party, and this guy. This guy came out really angry and just punched my friend in the face. He fell, hit his head, put into a coma. And he wakes up three weeks later, and my mom is there. I wasn't there. My mom was there. And she. And he says, patty, you need to get Chris away from. And she named out. She named, you know, some of the kids that I was associating with, and she said, why? You know, because, you know, they were at my house. You know, they're.

[Tucker Carlson]

That was the first thing he said when he came out of a coma.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

God exists.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. God bless him. Really? It was. And then, of course, you know, at the time, I. I was like that, you know, snitch, you know, that kind of mentality. It's like, why are you trying to rain on my parade? You know, I'm just having a good time. And. But, yeah, you know, I mean, my friends tried several, like, you know, my. My quote, unquote, stoner friends tried several interventions, and I was just like, you know, extremely defensive. And, like, who are you people to tell me anything? You know, and, you know. But again, they had my best interest at heart and.

[Tucker Carlson]

Of course.

[Chris]

And. And, you know, many of those people I'm still in contact with today, and I'm so grateful that they, you know, took the time and the effort to try to save me from myself.

[Tucker Carlson]

Incredible. Are you still in. Are you still in high school at this point? Are you going to class? Are you.

[Chris]

Yeah, going to class. You know, leaving early, stuff like that. You know, ditching, you know, like. Like fifth period, fourth period to go hang out.

[Tucker Carlson]

And, you know, how often are you doing heroin at this point?

[Chris]

Every day.

[Tucker Carlson]

Every day. At what time of day? Like, what's the schedule for?

[Chris]

So wake up. So I wasn't shooting it up yet. I was. I was smoking it at first. And how did you smoke it? So it's. So in California, heroin's mostly black. Tar heroin.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yep.

[Chris]

And so basically from Asia.

[Tucker Carlson]

Correct?

[Chris]

Not sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay.

[Chris]

But yeah, it's like this, like, little black. Yeah, like square. And so you put it on a piece of tinfoil, you put a lighter underneath it, and you get a straw, and it makes, like, it goes. It'll, like, trail down the tin foil, and you're. And the smoke's coming up, and you suck it through the straw with the lighter and. Yeah, that was the.

[Tucker Carlson]

What's the high like from it?

[Chris]

I mean, just total euphoria again. You feel like you're on. You're on top of the world. You can. It doesn't matter if you're literally your life is falling down around you. You don't care. It's like you're fine. Everything is fine. Everything is great.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wow.

[Chris]

Yeah. Again, then the insanity.

[Tucker Carlson]

How long does it last?

[Chris]

I'd say smoking it. And again, it all depends on, like, your tolerance level and things like that and things like that. But I'd say, like, you probably three, four hours, five hours.

[Tucker Carlson]

So while you're in high school, when are you smoking heroin?

[Chris]

So I would do it before school, you know, at home in your bedroom? Yeah. Yeah. And.

[Tucker Carlson]

And your parents had no idea.

[Chris]

Or in my shot, in my shower. Yeah, and. Yeah, no, they didn't. Yeah, they didn't. They. So when my friend got out of the coma, they, you know, started to kind of try to keep a closer eye on me, but I was still, you know, I was incredibly deceptive and very manipulative.

[Tucker Carlson]

Of course.

[Chris]

Very manipulative and deceptive with my parents making them think that, oh, these kids are great. No, they're. They're actually the good kids. And, God, when I think about, like, the torment that I put my parents through, it is just.

[Tucker Carlson]

Where were you getting the money to buy all this heroin?

[Chris]

So I was. I had. I had. I still had that job at the golf. Or selling golf clubs, and. And then I, you know, I would occasionally take money from my parents, whatever I needed to do, and then things I'm, you know, not proud of, I bet. But, yeah, that's the nature of the disease, is you will do anything to get that. Get that next fix.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

And so from smoking, it quickly deteriorated to. To shooting up, because, you know, I'd say within like, a month of Smoking it. I started shooting up because, you know, my couple, my buddies started doing it, and they're like, oh, my gosh, dude, you only have to use, like, one fifth of the amount, and you get, like, a high that's like 10 times better. I'm like, oh, great, save money. And yeah, I remember the first time. Like, I remember first time my buddy and I did it. We looked it up. How to inject. You know, great. Google search. How to inject heroin. Your body.

[Tucker Carlson]

You Google searched it?

[Chris]

Yeah, it's like, they have, like, images of, like. Because you're supposed to go, like, diagonally, like, within. You're not supposed to, like, just go straight down. Like, because you want to. You want to go into the vein.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

And then. And then you basically draw back the syringe. And once you see blood, because you know that it's in the vein, then you inject it. But if you miss, it's really painful. You. Basically what happens is, like, you don't. And you don't get that immediate euphoric rush that you. That comes with shooting up. That's. That doesn't come with smoke. Like, smoking it. Yes. You get euphoria, but shooting up, it's like that. It's instantaneous, and it hits so much harder. It's like crack versus cocaine.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, yeah, it was just a very.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can I just ask you for perspective? So how long between the moment you first crushed a pill and snorted it and the moment you first shot heroin, how long did that progression take?

[Chris]

I would say less than a year. Probably about, like nine months.

[Tucker Carlson]

Damn. That's a pretty progressive.

[Chris]

Yeah. Progressive illness.

[Tucker Carlson]

So what was it like the first time you shot heroin? Where'd you do it?

[Chris]

It was at my buddy's buddy's house in. In Laguna Hills, in. In that neighborhood that I mentioned. Nelly Gill.

[Tucker Carlson]

The Five Million Dollar House neighborhood.

[Chris]

Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, we were in his room and I did it. And, yeah, again, it's that just this overwhelming sense of euphoria. And. Yeah, everything is wonderful. Even if, you know, you're. Even if your life sucks. And. And again, I understand why a lot of, you know, like, homeless people do drugs. It's like, because their life is literally just in shambles. And, you know, so, I mean.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, they're so broken, there's no way to fix it. This is their thinking. So, like, this is the escape.

[Chris]

Yeah. So what's the point? Yeah, exactly. Why not just live in, like, a, you know, almost like a metaverse, you know?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes, exactly.

[Chris]

Nicely put. Thank you. So, yeah, so I went to, like, probably, I would say, not exaggerating, over 10 rehab centers in California.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wait, so how did you get. Okay, so you start shooting heroin. How did you get busted? How did you wind up going to rehab?

[Chris]

Oh, yeah, so I. I was. So I was shooting up on a daily basis, and I actually started going to a continuation school because I was just. I stopped going to class, my grades were too low, and, you know, I basically got kicked out of school. And so I was at a continuation school.

[Tucker Carlson]

You wind up in, like.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, the. The place I'm. The place I would ridicule and mock. Like, and then I'm. Now I'm one of them.

[Tucker Carlson]

Was your junkie friend still there, the guy who first turned you on?

[Chris]

Because he was. He was, like, much older. Yeah. Or like. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was a senior when I, Like, I was a sophomore, and he. And he barely attended. Like, I saw him a few times on campus, but he barely went to school even when he was at continuation school. So. Yeah. And, yeah, we really didn't associate with that guy other than just to go buy drugs, but because he was not exactly, you know, fun person to be around. And so I. Doing drugs, doing. Shooting up heroin before school. And for some reason that day, I decided to take my. Take all my drugs with me. I had a little, like, Ziploc packet with my syringe, my, you know, my. What I use to tie off, you know, you know, all my equipment.

[Tucker Carlson]

Where'd you get the syringes, by the way?

[Chris]

So there are certain pharmacies that will, you know, if you say, you know, my. My grandmother's a diabetic or whatever that. And I think nowadays they just give them to you in a lot of places, especially, like, Northern California.

[Tucker Carlson]

Anything they can do to encourage a drug addicted population, therefore, yeah, 100%.

[Chris]

It's disgusting. Gavin Newsom makes me sick. The money, like, you know, he talks about this multifaceted plan to attack the opioid epidemic. It's like, yeah, you've spent billions of dollars and it's only gotten worse.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right. Encouraging people to be addicts. Yeah.

[Chris]

Yes, absolutely. And so I got. So I decided for some dumb reason to bring my drugs to school with me that day. And I also did something that I would never normally do. I told some random person that I'd never met that I was high on heroin, like, in class. Like, someone I sat next to the first time seemed like a cool person, cool guy. Like, yeah, I'm on here. Yeah. And he's like, oh, really? And, like, didn't seem like he was gonna tell on me. And. And so I'm in. I remember, like, two periods later, I'm in class, and some administrator comes into the. The room and says, chris, Chella, can you come to the office? And. And I saw a cop behind her. And I was like, oh. And so I go down to the office, and she's like, yeah, we heard a rumor that you were doing drugs. And I'm like, who said that? She's like, well, I can't tell you. And I was like, well, it's not true. You know, deny, deny, deny, deny. But they're like, she's like, okay, well, you know, we're going to search you. And I was like, I don't think you guys have the. I don't think you guys have the legal right to search me. And she's like, if we have probable caught. And like, you know, the. Basically, I. I allowed it. I wasn't sure if it was legal or not, but I was hoping that. And. And so they searched me. Pants, you know, belt, all that stuff. And she was about to turn away, and then she says, wait, let me check your socks. Literally, like, the last thing she did. And I was like, oh. And so, of course, got caught, got arrested.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you had the kid in your socks?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, it's just like high socks with it just, like, right here. And so I get, you know, arrested or detained. And my, you know, the cop releases me into my mom's custody, and my mom drives me home. She says, you're. You're going to rehab. Like, you know, I don't want to hear anything about it. You're going to rehab. And I was like, okay.

[Tucker Carlson]

And your mom is like, someone who knows opioids, like, how bad it is.

[Chris]

Yes, yes. And. And that's why she would, you know, at times, you know, and I was like. I was in terrible withdrawal, and I was like, mom, I. I'm dying. Like, I. I need to, like, please just give me, like, you know, and, you know, she would occasionally give me a little bit of money just to.

[Tucker Carlson]

To.

[Chris]

Because she felt. Because she knew that she knew. And God bless her, you know, she just. I put. So I. You know, I rained down so much terror and chaos upon my parents. They just. They were just trying everything they could think of. And, you know, some things they did really well. Some things. Obviously, you know, again, being a parent is hard. Especially a parent of a wild, psychotic drug addict. Yeah. And. And dealing with, you know, obviously, you know, my sister's issues as well, you know, just goodness. But as soon as my mom turned her back, I stole the $80 she had in cash out of her wallet and drove to la. And obviously. Oh. So the gang banger that I left this out, the gang banger that I was partying with, I really regret doing this because, you know, I consider him a friend, but I was desperate at the time and so I was like, all right, I'm gonna rob him and.

[Tucker Carlson]

You'Re gonna rob the gangbanger?

[Chris]

Yes. Yeah. And so I.

[Tucker Carlson]

That doesn't seem like a good decision.

[Chris]

No, no, again. But you know, so desperate, in agony and like, what else can I do? So I got this like 220 pound, 225 pound Scottish kid and this big kid from the football team. And I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna rob this little skinny Mex. I. It's like, no problem. And they're like, all right, cool. And as, as, as we were getting up there.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Like super dumb people then.

[Chris]

Yes. One of, one of them, one of them became a meth head. He mocked me for being a heroin addict and like, you know, shunned me. But then he became like a hardcore meth head. And. But when like.

[Tucker Carlson]

But you just go to them cold. Hey, we're gonna rob some Mexican kid?

[Chris]

Yeah. And I felt, I failed to mention that he was, you know, a gang banger and, you know, had associations with the Mexican mafia. And. And so I, I kind of let, I accidentally let that slip on the ride up there. And they're like, we don't want to do this anymore.

[Tucker Carlson]

No.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, and so like, we get there and I'm like, you. And so I just. Sorry. Cursing. So I just get into the car myself and commit it. Commit the robbery.

[Tucker Carlson]

How do you rob him?

[Chris]

So I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat, said, don't move. Just reached into the cuz. I knew where he kept it and just reached and grabbed it and. And then jumped out. My friend was in the driver's seat and I was like, go. And he's driving like a maniac. And I'm like, dude, calm down, slow down. Like, because of very narrow streets in that area, things like that. And so we're driving and you're making me tense, man.

[Tucker Carlson]

Just telling me this story. Where were you? What town was this?

[Chris]

This was in like Southgate. Like the same, same area that, you know, I was going to pick up the stuff before.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you pepper sprayed a member of the Mexican mafia and stole his heroin.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

You got balls.

[Chris]

I'll say that again.

[Tucker Carlson]

Have you apologized to him, by the way?

[Chris]

Years later, I haven't had the opportunity.

[Tucker Carlson]

You haven't been back to Southgate?

[Chris]

No. Yeah. If you're watching, I apologize.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sorry.

[Chris]

Yeah, no, I. I do regret it, but. So, yeah. So my friend's driving down the street, and we. I see him driving down the street, the, like, perpendicular street behind us, and I'm like, how the Is he driving? I just, like, unloaded a bunch of pepper spray in his face. And he's armed, too. What?

[Tucker Carlson]

He's armed?

[Chris]

Yeah, probably. Yeah. And so we're like, my. So I'm like, all right, just keep driving. And he. For some reason, he, like, just does, like, a wild turn onto a very narrow residential street, crashes into an oncoming.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, come on.

[Chris]

Yeah. And I'm just like you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you go to church?

[Chris]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Good.

[Chris]

I've.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've.

[Chris]

I've. Yes. I've gone to confession so many times. Good. And. And spirituality.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you, too, for being here, for being alive.

[Chris]

Yeah, no, exactly. I should have died so many times. Like. Yeah. I mean, the amount of. Not just, you know, the stupid things that I was doing outside of my use, but, I mean, the, like, if I was an addict in the age of fentanyl, where, like, fentanyl is laced in, I probably would have died just because I stopped in 2016 when that was, like, when it started to really get, like, when. When they started to put heroin into fentanyl or fentanyl into heroin and other drugs.

[Tucker Carlson]

Because when Trump got elected and the Chinese decided to just, like, kill a huge part of our population.

[Chris]

Yeah. Flood our country with poison, basically. Right. And.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your story. No, no, you're fine with this.

[Chris]

You're fine.

[Tucker Carlson]

And by the way, can I just make one other editorial comment? As a product of Southern California, it's really a decadent society. Just being. I'm like, for real. Decadent. Like, I don't. Okay. And I grew up there, you know, in the. In the early 80s was when I was your age. You know, the age you describe. And it was so decadent that I. I almost never think about it. But. But you are a product of that society. I mean, I'm just telling you.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 100%.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Chris]

A little, a little and even a little. And it helps to have something that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Works as hard as you do. That's why Valspar has durable, high coverage.

[Chris]

Paint for every job.

[Tucker Carlson]

Every time, mate. For more Valspar pros, head to Lowe's today and talk to a pro rep.

[Chris]

About saving time and money on your.

[Tucker Carlson]

Next job with Valspar signature paint exclusions applied. See valsparpro.com for details. Anyway, okay, so your friend, you see the guy from the Mexican mafia, he somehow recovered from getting shot in the face with pepper spray.

[Chris]

Yeah, of course.

[Tucker Carlson]

He has a gun in the vehicle and he's looking to kill you. And you see him perpendicular. Your friend swerves down a narrow road and head.

[Chris]

Head on. Yeah. With some, you know, driver by. And so I jump out of the car, stash my drugs.

[Tucker Carlson]

Have you, have you used the heroin yet?

[Chris]

No. No.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you're still like jumpy withdrawal guy at this point?

[Chris]

Yeah. And. But I like, I stashed it and this one, like there was like. Because there was a bunch of people, like, they immediately started like. And my two friends take off. By the way, they just start running down the street. I'm like, why?

[Tucker Carlson]

Running down the street?

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. In. In south. In south.

[Tucker Carlson]

And this is not an Anglo neighborhood. So like they stick out.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like sore thumbs. Like a big. Yeah. I mean, well, one of them was Hispanic, so maybe not so much, but. But the Scottish guy. Yeah. Like. And so we. So, so. So I jump out of the car, I stash my drugs, sit down on the curb and wait for the police, you know, because there's. There's so many people there, so many witnesses, and. But again, no one knew that what had just transpired, all this all. Again, like, it was just a. A car accident as far as they were concerned. And as far as the police were concerned. And so, yeah, my friends run, and the cops. The cops come, they show up. They're like, like, you know, hey, what are you doing out here? I was like, we were trying to find a friend's house. We got turned around. Yeah. Made up some stories, trying to find a friend, and. And he's like, well, do you need to go to the hospital? And I'm like, no, no, I'm good. I'm good. I'm fine. And he's like, okay, well, do you. Do you have a ride? I was like, yeah, I'm gonna call somebody to pick me up. And he's like, okay. And so, you know, I wait for them to depart and go back into the little bush and, of course, grab my drugs. Can't forget that. And. And then I. I got. I ended up getting a ride from a buddy, another user. And I was like, hey, I'll give you some. Give you some dope if you pick me up. Because I was. I was very concerned that they were going to, like, you know, I was like, I need to get out of Southgate fast.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, like, right away.

[Chris]

Yeah. And so I. Yeah. So I was like, dude, just please come. Come pick me up. I will make it worth your while. And so I get picked up.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you had to wait on the sidewalk?

[Chris]

Well, I. I was. I was actually. This. This nice lady. She was like. Her house was, like, right next to where the accident took place. And so I was like, do you mind if I just, like, post up on your. On your front step? Like, I was like, I'm. I just want to wait for my ride. And, you know, it's kind of. I'm kind of scared. I'm in a dangerous neighborhood. You know, played like the little. You know, and she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, very kind. And so I just sit there and wait. And, you know, I have, like, the drugs in my fist, ready to, like, toss them at a moment's notice if I need to or whatever. And then I get picked up, and that's that. But what transpired after? Because thankfully, they only knew me by C.J. because Chris Jr. My initials. That's what. I went by my nickname from, like, kindergarten through. Yeah, through high school. And then they, and they knew I lived in south Orange county and. But they didn't know anything else. And so they would, so they, they switched up the way they did their, like the way they did the process of selling the dope where they would. Now you had to, so you had to meet up, then follow them down like this empty street or an alley or something like that, then stand up against a chain link fence and get, get searched. And then you could get into the car and get your stuff. And they would ask every single person, do you know cj? Do you know CJ from south Orange County? Do you know where he lives?

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh.

[Chris]

And yeah, so for a very long while and you know, I was like so grateful when I saw that OC Register article, the fact that they had. And I saw that his picture in the, you know, his mug shot in the article, wild and his name listed. Just not going to say it, but yeah, I mean, crazy stuff.

[Tucker Carlson]

Let me just, just pause to ask you, the, the guys who you were with on that caper where you assaulted the member of the Mexican mafia, did they turn out okay?

[Chris]

Well, one of them became a meth head.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

Yeah. And it's ironic because when they got, like, when they got, got caught, they got caught at like a 7 or a Starbucks, cops picked him up and they immediately just spilled. They told them the whole story for no reason. And I know for a fact because my father represented him in the hit and run and the, the, the, the. It took the DA like until almost the end of the trial to figure out that I was also associate. And like, he's like, wait, your son was involved in this? And my dad was like trying so hard to thread the needle, you know, to not get me, not expose me to any potential criminality and also, you know, defend my friend. And yeah, it was.

[Tucker Carlson]

So one became a drug addict and.

[Chris]

The other one I kind of lost, lost contact with. Have no idea how many of the.

[Tucker Carlson]

Guys that you partied with in high school are, are sober now. How many are dead.

[Chris]

Do you, do you keep track from high school? Most. Yeah. One friend passed away. Opiate user, good guy. But, you know, he wasn't like a particularly heinous junkie. I mean, he just was a junkie. But he was a good, I like, you know, good hearted. And. But he passed away of an od. Yeah, overdose. And you know, I had, I met a few friends in rehab. One whom I was very close to, lived in New York and you know, we stayed in contact, met in Florida, stayed in contact. And for you Know, like, four years. And then, you know, I got a call from his mom that saying that he had OD'd, you know, relapsed. And. And, you know, it was just heartbreaking. But, yeah, most. But no, most of my friends, like the. Like the stoners from high school.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Wow. Are very successful individuals. College graduates, you know, working in finance, working in different, you know, sectors, and having a great life.

[Tucker Carlson]

What about the opioid users?

[Chris]

The opioid users, kind of like, they. They have the advantage. Like, many of them that I hang out with or hung out with. Excuse me. Were already. You know, their family was just. Just uber wealthy. Like, one of them. One of their fathers was the CEO of a company called Ameriquest. He was worth, like, you know, $80 million. So they. They had a. You know, a lot of money to fall back on. So, like, they tried opening up, like, a clothing line, different things, but ultimately.

[Tucker Carlson]

Music label. What music label?

[Chris]

No, not yet.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's kind of the classic one.

[Chris]

Yeah, no, there were other kids in our. In our. In. In Orange county that did do that. That started. That tried to start a rap group. And I, of course.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I could write this story.

[Chris]

It's. It's. Yeah, Orange county is so weird. But anyway, so. Yeah, so I've. Yeah. But most of my friends from high school are very successful. And I mean, I like the one. The stoners are. Yeah. Yeah. But unfortunately, yeah, I've lost multiple friends, you know, people that I actually genuinely cared about. Not just, you know, acquaintance. Acquaintances.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

You know, I had too many acquaintances, but, you know, real friends, it's been like. Yeah, like five.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you have any idea what happened to the guy you pepper sprayed?

[Chris]

No. And. Oh, this is. This is nuts. When I was in rehab, so the guy. The guy. Boss, right. He had different runners. Like, you know, multiple guys who would run into cars. And one time I had this guy, and so I was in rehab, and it was like a. It was in. It was in San Diego and I think Chula Vista. Great place to put a rehab. But it was like.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, your rehab was in Chula Vista.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, yeah, it's like you're setting yourself up to fail. But they had, like. It was a mansion and then kind of like a bungalow. They had little, like, bungalows, like, type things. And so it could house about like, 30, 40 people. And so they had me there. And this guy comes in, and I'm like, he looks familiar. And I didn't. Like, I didn't. I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen him before. And he goes, he goes, hey, man. He said, he said, I used to. He said, I used to run for boss. And I. He's like, I. I think I delivered to you once. And I'm like, oh, my God. And he's like. And he's like, you. He's like, he's like, you're friends with Hobby, right? And, and the guy that robbed. The guy that I robbed. And I was like, yeah, yeah, great friends. And I was like, I heard he was locked up, though. He's like, yeah, no, he's out now. And I was like, oh, okay. And he's like, I'll tell him you said hi. When. Because you get a seven day blackout and you can't use the phone when you first go. And a lot of treatment centers have that rule. This place did. And so he's like, yeah, I'll tell you. Said what up? When I, when I talked to him, I'm like, oh, my God, he's. This guy's gonna knife me in my sleep, you know, And I was seriously, I. I was concerned. I was gonna tell like my therapist and see, you know, what could potentially be done because I was genuinely. Because you could easily, in that place, sneak out of your bedroom, go and go into someone else's bedroom.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

If you wanted to. It's not like it's locked down. You know, they have, you know, quote unquote, people that are watching at night. But the place is so big. It's, you know, you could do it if you want.

[Tucker Carlson]

And of course there are no locks on the doors.

[Chris]

No, no, of course not. Because. Right, yeah. Junkies. Yeah, exactly. People were buying air duster and like, use, you know, like anything to get a buzz. And I was just like, wow, that was kind of eye opening for me. But not eye opening enough to stop. But it's like, wow, this is your.

[Tucker Carlson]

So how many times did you go.

[Chris]

To rehab total between California and Florida? Probably somewhere between 15 and 20.

[Tucker Carlson]

15 and 20.

[Chris]

Yeah, I got. Because I got kicked out of a bunch of places for stupid. For. For reasons that were not related to drugs necessarily. Fraterniz. Fraternization.

[Tucker Carlson]

What does that mean? Hooking up with girls that were grabbing the girls.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, not again. Consensually.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right, I'm sorry. Right.

[Chris]

I meant that. Yeah. Just let me. Yeah. Clarify that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Pre Harvey Weinstein sense.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean, I was like 17, 18 years old and. And you.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you have heroin affect your sex drive.

[Chris]

Yes. It makes it, it lowers it a Lot. And then when you come off of it, you're horny 24 7. Like. Yeah, yeah, because it's like cocaine is like that. Yeah. And. And it's. It's interesting because, like, my. One of my therapists described withdrawal as your body basically being in shock because you've been numbing all your senses for so long.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And then when you stop, your body is like. Everything is just like taking in light.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Chewing food, everything hurt. Like, my eyes hurt, my teeth hurt, every muscle and bone in my body ached. Like, it. It is. If you could find a way to. To like, inject that into, like, find a way to, like, inject that feeling into it, like, for interrogation purposes. Let that guy sweat it out for a day. He'll tell you where all the bombs are, I assure you. You know, it is like, truly. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

[Tucker Carlson]

Really?

[Chris]

Yeah. It is so bad.

[Tucker Carlson]

So did you have to detox? I guess every single time. 15 or 20 times you went to rehab?

[Chris]

Pretty much. There were a few times when I was like, kind of just on and off using. And so it, like, the withdrawal was like. Yeah, I kind of felt it. But there were. Yeah, probably about 10 times when I went through hardcore withdrawal. And yeah, every single time I was like, I never want to feel this feeling again, you know, and. But I wasn't. I still wasn't committing to myself that I wanted to stop. I was just like, how long does.

[Tucker Carlson]

It last, the withdrawal? Agony?

[Chris]

I mean, it's. They say like up to like seven days typically. But I mean, in reality, I. I mean, my withdrawal, the. My last withdrawal lasted about like three. It was like three weeks before. I remember. I remember like the day I was like laying in bed and I was like, wow, I actually feel comfortable. Like, my body doesn't ache. Like, I can. I'm like, I feel. I feel kind of normal.

[Tucker Carlson]

Three weeks.

[Chris]

Yeah. I mean, and it's like, again, the first week is just like absolute hell. You're sweating bullets, you're cold. Like, the sweat on your body makes you cold. And it's just. It's. It's terrible. And again, all the other things I described and that just slowly. And then. And then the. The discomfort, it's like the epitome of discomfort.

[Tucker Carlson]

Gastrointestinal too.

[Chris]

Some people. Some people got like diarrhea, things like that. I did. I didn't. Some people got like, would vomit and stuff, but. But that never really happened to me. I guess it's just, you know, depends on the person. But. Yeah. It just overwhelming, like sense of just. Yeah, shock, I guess is the best way to put it. And yeah, again, just terrible.

[Tucker Carlson]

Interesting. So rehab, I mean, you're making a pretty strong case. It doesn't work very well. I mean, if you went to 50, I mean, God knows what that cost, by the way. You know, someone paid for it. I don't know if it's your family or some insurance program, estate taxpayers, whatever, but someone's paying a lot of money.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah. The. So the first rehab I ever went to was, it was called the Phoenix House. And it was in, it was in like northern Orange county and it was a state run facility. And like you, it was like a kind of like a boot camp style. You had to like fold your bed with the military, you know, know, corner crease and everything like that. All your shirts had to be lined up, your, you know, your toiletries had to be perfectly in a row, all that stuff. And you know, I did that and I was like, I was like, I hate this, this sucks. And all I want to do is get out. And you know, I'm just like, I just can't wait till this 30 days is over so I can leave. And, and I was like, I was like, I don't think I want to. I was like, at that time I was like, like, I don't think I want to do heroin, but I definitely want to. Like, I still want to be able to smoke marijuana. I still want to be able to drink and like. And I mean to this day I still, you know, smoke marijuana and drink recreationally occasionally. But yeah, I made the decision that I, or, you know, I just wasn't ready to quit yet. And I think what, what it's really, you can go to as many different, different treatment centers, doctors, AA meetings. It has to be, I think, an intrinsic motivation to better yourself. And you have to want that. Like, you have to want. You can't do it for somebody else. If you're doing it for your child, if you're doing it for your wife, if you're doing it for your parents, you're gonna fail.

[Tucker Carlson]

Hey, it's Tucker Carlson. Not to be a moralizer, but some things, and you know this as well as we do, some things are just wrong. They may not be illegal, but you'd never do them for reasons of self respect, if no other. And teabagging, sorry to say it, teabagging is one of those, you shouldn't be doing that. And you know you shouldn't be doing that. And yet the big nicotine pouch Companies encourage you to teabag. They call them nicotine pouches, but they're basically teabags. They're dry, desiccated, tasteless, they're disgusting and they're degrading to you. Don't put one in your mouth. Now you have an option. It's called alp. It's not dry like a teabag. You're not teabagging when you use it. And you should be proud of that. You've got self respect now. You can show that self respect with our no teabagging T shirt, which you can find right [e-mail]. okay, so let me just ask you. I've heard and known. I've heard this story, and I've known many people who've lived this story where they're addicted to something, whether it's pills or heroin, cocaine, alcohol mostly. And they just go to rehab after rehab after rehab, relapse after relapse after relapse, destroying their sense of themselves. And, you know, they feel like losers. You know, when you keep failing at something, it's not good for you. You know, you fail more.

[Chris]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

So why do we have, like, what's the point of this? Like, why do we have these centers? Clearly don't work? I mean, do they? I don't know. It doesn't sound like they do.

[Chris]

Yeah, I mean, again, it's. It's. I think that, like, it's. It all depends on the person. But again, it has to. You have to want it. That's the bottom line is, like, you have to want it. And like, these treatment centers, they can't. They do some good, but they should not be like, you should not say, you know, rehab is a cure or AA is a cure. Because, like, yeah, if you're go. If you go into those places, you can sometimes develop the intrinsic motivation through therapy or through discussion with other people or whatever. But. But I mean, for me, it was so. Fast forward a little bit. So, you know, I. I get basically kicked out of every rehab in California. So my parents are like, all right, let's send you to Florida. Let's try a new environment. And South Florida was like the rehab capital, of course.

[Tucker Carlson]

Delray.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Delray. Boynton Beach. And it was just. I mean, I was shocked that, like, some of the places where the halfway houses were or the sober homes were located, like, down the street from, like, the known markets where people, like, were.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, no one's more for sobriety than I am. I'm a sober person. Totally opposed to drugs. And alcohol, period. But let's just stop lying about it. This is a. These places are a scam. Not all of them.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

But a lot of them are just a money making scam profiting off the misery and death of addicts.

[Chris]

Yeah, they see you as an insurance policy with a heartbeat.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Chris]

That's pretty much it. You know, and true villains, I think. Yeah, yeah. No, no. This most. The most sinister man probably in. If you want to just pick one out is his name is. He was. I. That was the first treatment center I went to in Florida, so. Owned a treatment center and he owned several halfway houses, but they were all. Everything was in his wife's name. That's one thing that was like a red flag to me. And so. And this guy shows up to the, to the rehab center in like a three piece, you know, Armani suit with like a Gucci belt and like, you know, like dressed like a pimp, you know, I mean, and. And ironically, he is a pimp. He was. So he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack, and pimping them out and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox. And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center?

[Tucker Carlson]

No way.

[Chris]

Yeah. And it was the South Florida rehab shuffle. There are many cases of it. If you, you know, just Google that. You'll see, you know, a bunch of different stories, but as I would say, is like the kingpin of. Of just absolute scumbag. Like you said, villain. A villain. A true villain.

[Tucker Carlson]

So evil that it's hard. So.

[Chris]

Yeah, it's, It's. It's incomprehensible to me as a human being.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's like a slave trader.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Essentially treating people as objects, as animals.

[Chris]

Yeah. And so does he.

[Tucker Carlson]

Does he. Is he still in this business? I never. No, he's.

[Chris]

He's. He was sentenced to 27 years in prison. Wow. Yeah. So the, the feds. The feds started to crack down on the. The full rehab shuffle. Although I read said somewhere that it's supposedly coming back that the, you know, because it's basically. And you know, wasn't the. He was probably one of the worst offenders, but a lot of these guys were, you know, they, they would just like, you know, get these cheap homes, fill them with as many addicts as they could. Sometimes they would charge rent, like 75 bucks a week or something like that. Plus the money they're getting from, you know, kickbacks from the. Whichever treatment center they send them to so, you know, their house, they send them and then, and then if they go to detox, you know, the kickback, it's a revolving door of chaos and revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict and. But they're making money at every stop.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is disgusting.

[Chris]

It is.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do the addicts in the rehab center understand that they are pawns in a profit making scheme?

[Chris]

I think a lot of people were starting to wake up to it and I, and I knew one of the girls who was one of his victims and she would, she was always like, man, I just want to get the hell out of here. And she had this like look in her. Like I could see that there was something and I thought she was just very like, you know, maybe had some, some issues with her family or whatever. Just a very depressed, sad person. Even for an addict, even for an addict, like, I could tell that there was something like she was in absolute like misery and terror. She was afraid of that. They were afraid. Many people were afraid of him and what he would do if they spoke out. And it was just, it was heartbreaking for me to see that, you know, even as someone who's, you know, obviously committed crimes and things like that, I can't even imagine having the will to carry out such a monstrous act.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's, it's, it tells you a lot. So, I mean, that many rehabs, you met a lot of people. What did you learn about addicts?

[Chris]

Addicts are some of the most resourceful, intelligent people on the planet. Like, you drop an addict in the middle of the, the desert and they're going to find the nearest tribe with an opium pipe, you know, within 30 minutes. And so if you get.

[Tucker Carlson]

They're single minded, aren't they?

[Chris]

Well, yeah, but if you get them to, if you can, you know, separate them from the drug and separate them from the addiction and turn that into something that's good, like, you know, an addiction to work or addiction to helping others, you know, that you can get addicted to. Like, I mean, for me, the reason I got sober, I think there's several factors that played into it. Obviously. God, you know, and, and the intrinsic motivation, you know, that I talked about and, and having a fantastic support system that was there for me. They were just waiting for me to come to them, you know, just like, hey, we're here.

[Tucker Carlson]

Just your family.

[Chris]

Yeah, my family and one of the one halfway house owner who was kind of participating in this game, but he cared, like he cared, he genuinely cared about the people who were coming to his house. He did not allow any drug use or anything like that. I was at one place that was selling. This guy was selling crack to his clients at the halfway house.

[Tucker Carlson]

No way.

[Chris]

Yes. And he was selling crack to just people in general. So we would get knocks on our doors at 3 o'clock in the morning from total fucking spun out. Crackheads.

[Tucker Carlson]

Come on.

[Chris]

Yeah. No, man. And there was no door on the bathroom. The. It was 100, you know, it was the middle of the summer in South Florida. It's like 110 degrees out. No air conditioning, just fans littering the. You know, littered across the living room and down the hallways and stuff. And I mean, just an absolute shit show. And.

[Tucker Carlson]

And people are smoking crack in the halfway house.

[Chris]

Yeah. His rule was, you know, fine line, no needles. Like. Yeah, you can smoke cracks. You can smoke whatever you want. Just no needles, like. All right. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you smoke crack in the half halfway house?

[Chris]

Yeah, a couple times. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you think of crack?

[Chris]

I'd say it is. It's very destructive, obviously. But in terms of, like a high, it's like you're. It's like 30 minutes of like, I can con, you know, kind of. That I can conquer the world. You want to start doing all these, like, different tasks that you've been putting off, like, because you feel confident about them now. But then it wears off and then you're just, like, so depressed and you think about every bad thing you've ever. It's like. Yeah. Like, I don't know if we've ever had, like, cocaine withdrawal, like, or, you know, just coming off of cocaine after, like, a night of bender. You, like. My dad would tell me that when he would do coke, like, he was just like. You think about, like. Yeah, in third grade when I pushed that kid, you know, again, into the stairwell or whatever. Just like every, you know, and just like you just feel like a piece of garbage and you're depressed.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes. And you pay for every happy moment.

[Chris]

Yes, yes. And. And. And the crack, it lasts. It, like the. It. The high is so fleeting, too. Like, with heroin, at least you get like, a few good hours of, you know, a solid buzz. But with crack, it's like, you know, it goes away relatively fast.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you. How many people in rehab or halfway houses did you meet who were determined to get sober?

[Chris]

Not very many.

[Tucker Carlson]

How. Every person, I think, without exception I know who's been addicted to drugs or alcohol, who got better, has a sense that there's. What was he saying? Aa, A great, you know, a greater power that There's God.

[Chris]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tucker Carlson]

And that, you know, human beings have souls and each one is unique and important, and life is important and life is better than death and, you know, sort of like the basic grounding of monotheism. So.

[Chris]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Like, how big a role did God play in any of these rehab centers?

[Chris]

Well. Well, when I was. So I was living in the. The halfway house, I was selling. The guy was selling crack to. To us. And I. I just smoked some marijuana for the first time in a long time. And it made me, like, very introspective. You know, we can do that kind of like psychedelics too. And. And I was like. Like, you know, just. I. And I heard a voice in my head that I can only assume is just, you know, a spiritual awakening. God saying, like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why are you here surrounded by these people, like, looking around? I'm just like, I have so much more to offer the world than what I'm, you know, I mean, I've. I'm just a derelict and I don't have to be. I have people who love me. I have people who would, you know, would die for me. You know, my family is, you know. Know, you know, are so loyal and they love me so much. They just want me to stop being a piece of. Piece of garbage. And. And I just. That day I was like, I am done with this stuff. It's not fun anymore. Like. And. And I. And I wanted to better myself. That was so, you know, I think that was God instilling the motivation. So. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I got sober at a crack. It's kind of funny, you know, tried 50 different rehab centers, but ended up, you know, getting sober to crack house. But I think that that's. Yeah, it was.

[Tucker Carlson]

You were smoking weed in the halfway house.

[Chris]

Yeah, he didn't care about. Yeah. And yeah, you could smoke anything you wanted in there pretty much. And yeah, I was just like, that day I knew I was never going to touch an opiate again. And I know people say, like, you. You have to wake up and make a decision every day that you're not going to use. But it's like, I don. Even. It doesn't even like, register in my mind, like, like to fit. To say it, like, oh, I'm not going to use heroin today, because, like, you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

[Tucker Carlson]

I do know what you're saying, actually.

[Chris]

Yeah. It's like. Because it's like, I look back and I'm like, that's. I'm a different person. I'm truly a different person. I have like, evolved. It's like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly or, you know, whatever analogy you want to use. But just. And looking back and thinking, how could I have possibly done all this? And, and yeah, I mean, Christ plays a huge role and I think it's really important and even for people who are, excuse me, you know, maybe atheistic or whatever, but just believing in something greater than yourself that can, that, you know, you can strive to be better and strive to, you know, just whatever, set goals for yourself and achieve them. And by doing that, you are, you know, I think that's how people can, can find a way out of addiction and then, and then you grasp onto something, find things that you really enjoy. So like, what I was like, okay, what do I enjoy? I like, I love movies. I'm a huge movie fanatic and I like, I'm really interested in politics and journalism and ironically, what I mean, I was always, you know, my, like Fox News was on my parents television 24 7, you know, so I grew up conservative. My grandmother was a door knocker for, for Reagan and for Bush. Someone else, I can't think, no, the Ford, Nixon, Goldwater, the first conservative to run, he didn't win.

[Tucker Carlson]

Goldwater.

[Chris]

Oh, yeah, Goldwater, 1964. Yeah, Goldwater, yeah. And so, yeah, politics kind of is in my DNA, I would say. And I remember watching FOX in the lead up to the presidential election. It was like the perfect time to be, get interested in politics, right? You've got Trump and Hillary Clinton. And then I remember seeing you and I was like, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on your podcast. This is genuinely, genuinely the truth. I saw you on your show and I was like, I love the way this guy does the news. It's different, it's unique, it's funny. It's like, I want to do something like that. That's what I want to do.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're like, here's a Southern Californian who had addiction problems and he turned out okay.

[Chris]

And you're like, hey, yeah, yeah, I didn't know all that about you. I didn't know. I was just like, I was just like, wow, this guy is like so much different than the other voices on fox Fox, you know, I mean, not to, you know, I mean, you know, you just had. It brings such a unique perspective. You're willing to, you know, go against, you know, quote unquote, the party and call out the, you know, the rhinos and the Neocons and all that stuff. And I was just like, he's, he's awesome. Like this is great.

[Tucker Carlson]

And well, sue, let me ask you like a philosophical question. So in between jobs once and I got fired from another job. I was an unpaid fellow at a libertarian think tank in D.C. and I thought I was a libertarian, sort of am libertarian in a lot of ways still. You know, I really don't want to bother other people, but I left after a drug policy conference that I went to that really kind of changed my thinking on the world and at it. They explained the libertarian position on drug policy, which is kind of America's position on drug policy, which is. It's the drug addict's fault. Like people get addicted to drugs, that's their problem, that's their fault. And it's kind of the demand explanation for the drug epidemic. It's like we have a lot of drugs because people want a lot of drugs in this country. It's not Mexico or China's fault or the drug dealers fault.

[Chris]

Yeah, no, the, the, the, the. Yeah, the desire for it, like. Yeah. And, and that's what Mexico says. It's like if you people didn't want it so badly, maybe, you know, it's very true.

[Tucker Carlson]

That makes sense. I mean it's kind of like one of those lines you hear. They're like, yeah, that sounds right. And then you think of your own life and then you think of the people, you know, who got, you know, tragically fucked up or killed by drugs. And of course I know a lot of them. And you think, no, actually like some of them are like your mom, super healthy person, obviously a distance runner, the healthiest person like in America. You know, they're distance runners. And she has an injury and some doctor gives her a drug and she becomes an addict.

[Chris]

Yeah. And my, and my dad, literally one time he went into the office and he grabbed the guy by his, like, threw him up against the wall. He's like, you're poisoning my wife.

[Tucker Carlson]

Good for your dad.

[Chris]

Yeah. And, and I should say your parents, such a beautif.

[Tucker Carlson]

You told me off camera, are still married, which is so.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, married. Married for four. Married for 40 plus years. And that's incredible. And yeah, they've. Yeah, they're in love. I mean they're a true gen. That.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is a really love story. That's the best part of this whole story.

[Chris]

And the reason, just really quickly, the reason my dad fell in love with my mom like at first sight was because. Because he said she was the only woman In New York, he saw that was wearing a crucifix like he. That he'd seen in New York. So he's like, man, he's like, yeah, she's the one.

[Tucker Carlson]

They sound like great people.

[Chris]

Oh, you would love, you would love my.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I can tell, I can tell. I'd like to throw a few doctors against the wall myself, but okay, so then there's that and then there's your story, which is like, insecure high school kid. Like, how many high school kids are not insecure?

[Chris]

Right?

[Tucker Carlson]

Zero. Like the feelings that you described. Like, I don't quite fit in. I don't know if I'm cool or not. Not every single kid has that feeling at 15. So you're not unique in that way. And someone's like, hey, try this. And then you become like a crazed, you know, needle dependent heroin addict and you're pepper spraying members of the Mexican mafia and almost getting killed. So like within a year. So that suggests to me that what we have is a supply problem, not a demand problem. Like, you're in it. You know, you probably would have been happy with Bud Light or Coors Light or whatever.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And instead you wind up on heroin because you had access to this drug. So if you take 100 people and give them heroin every day for a month, like, what percentage become junkies? Like, well, all of them.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. So for sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was. I was just thinking this at this drug policy conference and I was like, actually, you're all liars. Probably getting paid by Purdue Pharma to lie. And it's the Cato Institute and they're definitely liars. I can say that now, but I didn't understand it until. Because this is the one topic I knew something about, having lived it. But what is the answer to this problem that kills over 100,000 people a year?

[Chris]

From a government perspective, what are we.

[Tucker Carlson]

It seems like we're paying addicts to use drugs. That's kind of my perspective.

[Chris]

Yeah. I mean, I think that one thing we should not be doing is what California is doing and trying to do. Set up like little, basically porter pot, porta potties for addicts to go in and, you know, use and you know, like little centers with clean needles and all that stuff. And I get it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why would you encourage people?

[Chris]

Yeah, exactly. You don't coddle and, and enable drug addicts. You. That is the worst thing you can do because they're just going to continue using. And heroin is not a drug that you can use. Like, like, and, and like, it's not like a, you know, because there's a lot of functional alcoholics and functional, you know, people who, you know, are on like, you know, Valium or whatever, you know, American kind of pill. Pill poppers that, that, you know, you would never know. But yeah, heroin, I just, I've never seen anyone who doesn't. It doesn't become a lifestyle. It's not, it's not like a, a side thing, you know, or hobby or whatever. It is your life, it is, is.

[Tucker Carlson]

All consuming what destroys you as a human being.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And same with meth.

[Chris]

Oh yeah, yeah, Meth. The. In, like inside and out too. Heroin doesn't quite like do the damage to your, like your complexion. Yeah. Outwardly. But like inwardly it's. It, I think it's worse. But, but meth is. Yeah. Absolutely terrible.

[Tucker Carlson]

Were you around a lot of meth people?

[Chris]

Oh yeah. In. So in Northern California because we moved to Northern California after, when I was, when I was 18. I remember my dad came down to San Diego because I was in rehab in San Diego and he picked me up and we drove north.

[Tucker Carlson]

To where?

[Chris]

To the Bay Area. To the East Bay. We lived in Concord.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris]

And because my grandmother lived in Lafayette.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yep. I know it.

[Chris]

And she was.

[Tucker Carlson]

Those were nice towns. I don't know if they still are, but they were.

[Chris]

Well, Concord has been kind of been taken up over by. There's a lot of gang activity and like, like, and it borders Clayton too. So they're like, I think they're probably going to do something about it because Clayton's like a really nice area. So they're probably going to start cracking down more because, you know, the rich people are being affected. So now it's a problem, you know. And so. Yeah, so we moved up there and again I started associating with the worst of the worst that just, you know, gang banging meth heads. And I'd never tried meth before. And I remember I was just at this guy's house and he pulls out a pipe like, all right, yeah, try it. See what the, see what the fuss is about. And I, I like, I.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you're an open minded young man.

[Chris]

Yeah. So, you know, I, I didn't necessarily love it. It wasn't this like, oh yeah, I need this. But my, but, but like my. Became. My best friend was a, was a dealer. So he always had it. It. So it's like I would always just. Yeah. Take like a puff or two. There was one point where I stayed up for 12 days straight and then slept for eight hours. And stayed up for another sort of total of 17 days. So, yeah, another five days. And because doing heroin and meth, it's like. Like, meth, when you're like, basically like, you know, you're up for a day or two, you start to get. Get weird, seeing shadow people and like that. Then you do heroin, and it's like. It's like, resets you almost. It's kind of like. It's like you. It's like, almost like you slept a little bit, and your brain's, like, back to normal and it's not going into crazy mode. I have seen meth heads. Like, I remember this one story. So I was. We were at this girl's house in her garage, and it was myself, our dealer, and this chick. And she had, you know, just all over her face, scrap, you know, from scratching.

[Tucker Carlson]

She.

[Chris]

She looked, like, terrifying. But I'd been kicked out of my house, so we were just chilling there. You know, we're just going, you know, from place to place, trying to, you know, find a spot to, you know, kick it and rest or whatever. And so we're smoking in there for, like, three, four hours, and her and my friend go into the bathroom or inside to her house, inside her house. And I just kind of, like, sit back, and I end up, like, falling asleep. And I didn't realize. I was like. I woke up, and I was like. I had no idea how long I'd been asleep. Like, 30 seconds, 30 minutes, whatever. And there was no one in the garage. So I, like, knock on the garage and knock garage door. Kind of peek my head in. I'm like, hey, what are you guys doing? And she comes out. She's like, close the door. I'm like, okay. And then she comes out. She's like, what the. What the are you doing in my. In my house? My kids are in there. And I'm like, oh, my God, you have kids? And she's like, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What.

[Chris]

What'd you steal? What did you steal? And I'm like, I didn't steal anything. And then she pulls out a handgun. Yeah. And, like, it's this switch that flips for some people. It's never happened to me, but this flip that switches and you. They just become in a totally different, irrational, dangerous human being. And so. So this woman has a gun pointed at me, and she's like, I want. She's like, empty your pockets. Blah, blah, blah. And I. I went like this. And pulled out, like, you know, I was like, look, I didn't steal anything from you. What would I steal? I poked my head into your place for two seconds and I'm like, by the way, if you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty mom, you know? Because I'm like, so you insult the.

[Tucker Carlson]

Lady with the gun Point.

[Chris]

Because. Because I was thinking. Another.

[Tucker Carlson]

If I can just ask you to pause. Chris. Another unwise decision.

[Chris]

Yes, yes, but I was thinking. I was like, this woman isn't going to pull the trigger. It was a neighborhood that the houses were, like, right next to each other. The police station was like, down the street.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you're betting that the meth head is rational?

[Chris]

I don't know what I was thinking. I was just angry. And I was high too. So, you know, I'm not exactly in the best, you know, decision making frame of mind, but anyways, so she's like. She's like, take your fucking clothes off. I want to make sure you didn't steal anything. I'm like, like, you. Sorry.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. No, please.

[Chris]

I'm like, you. You're out of your mind. I was like, I didn't steal a thing from you. You like, I was like, you're not going to shoot me, so how about you just let us fucking leave? And so. And. And I'm like. And I'm. And I'm looking at my friend and I'm like, dude. And he's just standing there like, this guy was a. A piece of work. So that night, so. So she's like, all right, get the fuck out of here. And she opens her garage up for us and we leave. And my friend calls an Uber. And the Uber, like, the. Her phone died in the middle of the ride. And so, like, the trip got canceled. And so the woman who was driving us was like, get out. Get out of my car right now. And we were like, still, like a couple miles from our destination, his sister's house. And he. And I was like, like, oh. And he's like, oh, don't worry, I have a spot we can go to. And I'm like, okay. And so we walk up the street and there's this house. And he's like, yeah, I forget who he said owned it, but he's like, yeah, it's cool if we crash here. And he tries to open the front door. It's not locked. He's like, all right, let me go around the back. And he's like, rummaging around. He's rummaging around in the backyard. And I'm standing in the front, just sitting on the steps because I Didn't think there was anything sketchy. And this car drives by and it kind of slows down and. And then it keeps going and I'm like, huh, that was weird. And then it loops back and then stops. And I was like, oh. So I had a backpack with me. I grabbed my backpack, hopped the fence into the backyard and I was like, hey, dude, someone's here. And he takes off and I'm running and I. It's like, it's four. It's like four in the morning in Northern California in the winter. And I'm running and it's pitch black and I fall into a pool. This is like one of the worst nights of my life. And I was. And I was in low key opiate withdrawal too. On top of all of that, on.

[Tucker Carlson]

Top of the meth and the crazy girl pointing the gun at you.

[Chris]

Yeah. And that's why I was so irritable. And probably if I, Yeah, if I had been, you know, if I was on heroin, it probably would have gone down a lot differently, but I probably wouldn't have been as aggressive. But I was so, you know, ticked off. And so I fall in the pool. I see flashlights like coming towards us and this guy has, has already booked it like over, over a fence and he's gone. Like, he is gone. And so I, I like, I get out of the pool and I try to climb the fence and I still have my backpack on and you know, like soaking wet. And I couldn't climb, it was too heavy. So I just shed the backpack and just hop the fence and I'm running down this hill and, and I run face first into a chain link fence.

[Tucker Carlson]

And it's like a dream sequence.

[Chris]

And, and my face is like, you know, so now my face is bleeding and my hands are bleeding from climbing the fences and like, and I don't have any shoes on. And so, so I am just so cold and so miserable. And so I. There was a, like a hill and then there was a grocery store, kind of a little strip mall type place. And so I go down there and I look for the sketchiest person possible. Like, you know, just.

[Tucker Carlson]

You can tell.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, they're my. Using my radar and. And I was like, hey man, can I use your phone to call Attack? Because I knew if I asked any normal person, they saw me with blood on my face and no shoes on, they'd be like, get the. Away from me, sir, please. But no, they were, they were really nice. They let me use their phone and I called a taxi, jumped into the taxi. I was like, please turn the heat up as high as you can. And I went home. And at first, my parents weren't gonna let me in. And I was like, listen, I'm. I'm probably gonna get hypothermia if you don't let me in. Please. I was like, I will do whatever you want. I will go anywhere. I just. Please. I. And I remember, like, going into their room and just, like, wrapping myself up in a. In a giant blanket. And. And I was. There was like. I'd never felt so relieved in my life.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you ever figure out who was chasing you?

[Chris]

I think it was someone who, like. Because the house. It turns out the house was for rent, and it was. It was. There was no one in it. And so I didn't know. Of course, I didn't know that. He said, yeah, this is a spot that we can go to. I just assumed it was another dope fiends. Another dope fiends place. And so, yeah, all that. And, you know, one thing that really breaks my heart is like. It's really the. Yeah. One of the most, I'd say difficult things that I had to accept that I did was because my dad would from time to time, figure out where I was and go to these, you know, these crack houses and places like that and beg me to come home. And I remember one time specifically, he said, please, please, Chris. Please come home. Like, your family loves you, Please. In tears. And my dad doesn't cry. And I was just like, no. And he's like, okay, well, at least take. And he gave me his crucifix and St. Christopher medal. I still. I broke the chain, But I still have them today, to this day. And, gosh, even then, it tore me up, you know, because I. I just wasn't ready to stop. And I didn't know, like, you know, I didn't want to cause this pain that, you know, and suffering that my parents were feeling. And so I drowned it out with just more use and, you know, to. To try to.

[Tucker Carlson]

You can see how that happens.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So when you quit 2016, how long did it take to get back your equilibrium for your brain to start functioning as it had before you started using opioids?

[Chris]

Honestly, I don't know that it will. It. It has ever gotten back to where it was before, but I think that it. It took about, I would say, like, nine months to a year to, like, get, like, the all, like, to get the fog out and, like, you know, have, like. Because, like, my memory was shot Just everything was, like, depleted. And so in order to get, you know, to get those receptors and everything firing again and to get my brain back to where it needed to be. Yeah, I just. It was hard that.

[Tucker Carlson]

What are the long term, longer term effects?

[Chris]

I would say. I'd say memory loss is definitely a thing. Equilibrium, like, I have a very bad equilibrium. Like, people think I'm drunk sometimes because I'll, like, stumble, but it's just like, no, I'm just. Yeah, my equilibrium's off. And I mean, obviously, you know, long term, like, things like anxiety, you know. You know, it's ironic because a lot of people use heroin to treat their anxiety and. But it causes, you know, again, it's the rebound effect. And so, yeah, anxiety, depression, just. Yeah. A myriad of bad things known.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, people addicted to opioids and have heard that it affects your ability to feel happiness once you're off it.

[Chris]

Yeah, I would say that. Yeah. I didn't. I always. And I, you know, and even to this day, like, have this kind of sense sometimes of, like, imposter syndrome. Like, I, like, you know. You know, for example, like, getting a job in Congress working for Matt Gaetz and having Matt Gaetz compliment me and tell me and say all these nice things about me. It's like, I don't feel like I deserve this praise. You know, I mean, sure, I'm a. Like, I'm a decent person, but, yeah, it's like, it took me a while to just understand that, like, yeah, I am worthy of these. I have achieved a lot. I have been, you know, sure, I've done a lot of bad things, but I've done everything I can to try to, you know, repair the damage that I caused.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Chris]

And so, like, so, no, I deserve, you know, it's just. It's hard to force yourself to, you know, accept. Like, yeah, you're like, you're doing well. Like, just be. Yes, you were. You were as bad as it could get, but you've turned it around. And, like, you know, I was. I was kind of nervous about this interview, but then I was like. And I was talking to my dad, and he's like, chris, you stopped using heroin. You can do an interview.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, you know, that's true.

[Chris]

Yeah. And I mean, yeah, you know, it was. And again, like, I go back to the intrinsic motivation. It's just so important to want to level up in life. And I think that, like, you know, I kind of compare it to, like, the whole body positivity movement. It's like, yeah, you're fortunate. £40. And I'm not talking about people with like, medical issues, but like, you're 40 pounds overweight. No, you're perfect just the way you are. It's like, no, put the donut down, go to the gym. Like, you know, stop, stop coddling people who are, you know, who have a food addiction.

[Tucker Carlson]

Encouraging people to destroy themselves. Yeah, I think about it. Yeah. Right. Only, only people who are filled with hate would do that. I don't care what they dress it up as. If you're encouraging someone to hurt himself, you hate that person, right?

[Chris]

Yeah, I mean, it seems so.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, obviously, yeah. If you did that to your kids here, get type 2 diabetes here, become a junkie, you would be. Oh, yeah, a terrible parent. But you'd be acting of hate for your kids, obviously.

[Chris]

Yeah. Sinister. It's, it is sinister. And, you know, that's why, you know, like, you know, you see all these, like, Victoria's Secret plus size, you know, it's like. And again, you shouldn't, you shouldn't do, you shouldn't want to better yourself, you know, for societal acceptance, but for your own sense of, you know, happiness and well, being and purpose. Because you talk to any person who's overweight, you know, and like, again, without medical conditions, like, obviously they're going to say, yes, I would prefer to be, prefer to lose a few pounds. I mean, I would assume. I've never talked to every obese. I haven't talked to every obese person on the planet, but the ones that I have talked to, yeah, I would.

[Tucker Carlson]

Like, they're tormented by it. Of course they're tormented by it.

[Chris]

You don't feel good and, and, and, and, and, yeah, and like Victoria's Secret and these other places, trying to tell them, oh, yeah, you're perfectly fine. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't change anything.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, it's evil, obviously. Let's just call it what it is. All these things are. They're Big Pharma.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think abetting the destruction of human beings and that's, that's the worst thing you can do in this life, in my opinion.

[Chris]

Absolutely. Big Pharma is the closest thing to, like, you know, like, if you just want to talk about pure evil, like, getting into the realm of demonic Big Pharma is, I think, the prime example what they've done to this country.

[Tucker Carlson]

I couldn't agree more. Chris, thank you for spending all this time and for being so totally honest about your story. And I never say, I hope this helps people because it feels like, so banal. But I do hope this helps people.

[Chris]

Thank you. I appreciate it, Tucker.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you. We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it. Good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit, follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news things that actually matter. Telling the truth, always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.