Rick Sanchez: Fired and Threatened With Jail for Refusing to Spout Zelensky’s Talking Points

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tucker Carlson Show
Episode: Rick Sanchez: Fired and Threatened With Jail for Refusing to Spout Zelensky’s Talking Points
Release Date: March 17, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Tucker Carlson Show, host Tucker Carlson engages in a profound conversation with former CNN reporter Rick Sanchez. The dialogue delves deep into the challenges faced by journalists who dare to question prevailing narratives, particularly concerning U.S. foreign policy and media censorship. Sanchez shares his personal journey from mainstream media to Russia Today (RT), and the subsequent repercussions he faced for maintaining editorial independence.

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Rick Sanchez's Journey to RT

[00:35] Rick Sanchez:
Rick begins by recounting how Larry King encouraged him to join RT after his departure from CNN and a successful venture in the healthcare industry. Despite initial reservations about working for a Russian-owned network, Sanchez felt a strong pull to return to journalism, emphasizing his passion for storytelling and uncovering truths.

Notable Quote:
"My calling is to tell stories, find out things I didn't know, and share them. That's what I love doing."
— Rick Sanchez [00:25]

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Experience at RT: A Haven for Editorial Freedom

Sanchez describes his time at RT as a utopian experience compared to his stints at CNN, Fox, and NBC. At RT, he had complete control over his show's content, including topic selection, staff hiring, and editorial decisions. This autonomy starkly contrasted with the constraints he faced in mainstream American media, where access to certain interviewees was restricted and editorial lines were rigidly enforced.

Notable Quote:
"I wrote my entire show from top to bottom, and nobody looked at it until it went on the air."
— Rick Sanchez [07:19]

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Challenges and Censorship in Mainstream Media

The conversation pivots to the systemic issues within American news networks. Both Carlson and Sanchez critique the lack of true journalistic independence at CNN, Fox, and MSNBC, highlighting the suppression of dissenting voices, especially those questioning neoconservative foreign policies.

Notable Quote:
"The red line at all three channels is exactly the same question: Neocon foreign policy, and we're done."
— Rick Sanchez [06:10]

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The Ukraine War and Personal Repercussions

Sanchez elaborates on how his association with RT became problematic amid the escalating conflict in Ukraine. Despite RT not airing his show in the United States, the Biden administration took drastic measures to shut down RT and penalize Americans associated with the network.

Key Events:

• January 2024: Sanchez receives a cryptic warning call from a former CNN colleague now at the State Department, hinting that his work at RT was under scrutiny.
• August 2024: RT is banned in the U.S. under the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), leading to the shutdown of Sanchez's production company and threats of imprisonment for continued association with RT.

Notable Quote:
"Here I am just doing a basic newscast every day, sharing it with them that was getting garnered tens of millions of people around the world... and the Biden administration said, no, you cannot practice your craft as a journalist if you're in any way associated with those people."
— Rick Sanchez [24:46]

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Suppression of the Narrative and Media Control

Sanchez recounts an incident where a Washington D.C. newspaper attempted to publish his story about the government's suppression of his work. Just as the article was about to be released, a mysterious phone call led to the cancellation of the publication, signaling orchestrated efforts to silence dissenting voices in the media.

Notable Quote:
"Now not only did I get a mysterious call that led to me losing my job at RT, now my trying to share my story was being killed by another mysterious phone call."
— Rick Sanchez [55:43]

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Neoconservative Influence and Propaganda

Both hosts vehemently critique the neoconservative influence over American media and foreign policy. They argue that this control leads to a homogenized narrative that stifles diverse perspectives and fosters an environment where challenging the status quo is met with severe consequences, including job loss and legal threats.

Notable Quote:
"They have a conspiracy of temperament and worldview that is not explicit... They know that telling your story, explaining how your First Amendment rights as an American were violated... is contrary to their interests as cheerleaders of the war against Russia."
— Tucker Carlson [57:32]

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Implications for Free Speech and Journalistic Integrity

The episode underscores the perilous state of free speech and journalistic integrity in the United States. Sanchez's experiences highlight a systematic effort to control the narrative, suppress dissent, and enforce conformity within the media landscape, raising concerns about the erosion of constitutional rights and the future of unbiased reporting.

Notable Quote:
"A government is not allowed in this country to tell us who we can work for, who we can watch, or what news entities can deliver news."
— Rick Sanchez [18:18]

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Conclusion: A Call for Open Dialogue and Diverse Perspectives

Both Tucker Carlson and Rick Sanchez advocate for the necessity of diverse perspectives in media to foster informed public discourse and prevent the dangers of propaganda. They emphasize the importance of upholding constitutional rights to free speech, the need for journalists to maintain independence, and the critical role of engaging with differing viewpoints to avoid societal polarization and potential conflicts.

Final Thoughts:
Sanchez expresses hope that the incoming Trump administration might reverse some of the restrictive measures, emphasizing the ongoing struggle to preserve journalistic freedom and integrity.

Notable Quote:
"We need journalists and others and academics and whoever to start engaging with the journalists and the academics over there so we can have discussions and work out a solution before we start another fricking world war here."
— Rick Sanchez [09:25]

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Key Takeaways

• Editorial Independence: Sanchez experienced unparalleled editorial freedom at RT compared to mainstream American networks.
• Systemic Censorship: The Biden administration's actions against RT exemplify a broader attempt to control media narratives and suppress dissent.
• Neoconservative Dominance: Neoconservative ideologies significantly influence American media and foreign policy, limiting diverse viewpoints.
• Threats to Free Speech: The episode raises alarms about the erosion of constitutional rights and the potential for increased governmental control over media.
• Need for Diverse Perspectives: Emphasizing the importance of engaging with varied viewpoints to ensure a well-rounded and informed public discourse.

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This episode serves as a critical examination of the current state of American media, the challenges faced by independent journalists, and the broader implications for free speech and democratic discourse. Rick Sanchez's personal experiences provide a poignant narrative on the struggles for journalistic integrity in a climate of increasing censorship and political pressure.

Transcript

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm ready for my life to change. Abc Sundays. American Idol is all new. Give it your all.

[Rick Sanchez]

Good luck. Come out with a golden ticket. Let's hear it. This is immense world. I've never seen anything like it. And a new chapter begins.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're going to Hollywood. Carrie Underwood joins Lionel Richie, Luke Bryant.

[Rick Sanchez]

And Ryan Seacrest on American idol news.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sundays, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. Rick Sanchez, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for doing this.

[Rick Sanchez]

Oh, it's a pleasure.

[Tucker Carlson]

How did you wind up at RT and what did you think?

[Rick Sanchez]

Larry King gives me a call one day. Larry King, by the way, Larry's a great man.

[Tucker Carlson]

I totally agree.

[Rick Sanchez]

I love Larry. He was kind. He says, ricky, you ought to really look at this. And I'm thinking, larry, the Russians, I mean, come on, man. I was born in Cuba. It's a communist country. I mean, just in case he wants, you know. But he, But Larry says to me, let me tell you something, Ricky, let me tell you something. This is the way Larry would say. You know, they don't tell me what to say. They don't tell me what to do. They don't tell me who I have to interview. They let me be in control of my show. And I guarantee you, they really like you. They really want you. If you come here and do this show that they want you to do, they're gonna do that for you as well. And I said, really, Larry? You sure? And finally I came to, you know, at the time, I'd been fired by cnn. I went to Miami. I decided to leave television altogether, television news. And at the time, I was, I had started a new health care company in South Florida, which we took public for a couple billion dollars. And it was a great story. But as the story, as that, that company was growing, I started thinking to myself, you know, I miss my calling. My calling is this. Yeah, what you do.

[Tucker Carlson]

Plus, it's fun.

[Rick Sanchez]

I love to tell stories. I like finding out things that I didn't know, and I love sharing them. And doing that for a living, I think is just a wonderful thing.

[Tucker Carlson]

I totally agree.

[Rick Sanchez]

So. Because I was kind of missing that when I got a call one day from an agent saying, you know, there's this group that wants to hire you, and they're a real network. Would you come up and talk to him? And then subsequently, I had the call with Larry King. I said, you know what? I might want to do this. Sat down with my wife and my family, and I said, you know what? I'm going to put the healthcare Company aside. And I'm going to go back to what I really want to do. So I joined RT. I said, yes, what year? That was five years ago?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, five years ago.

[Tucker Carlson]

20. 20.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. Way before. 2019.

[Tucker Carlson]

2018.

[Rick Sanchez]

Way before. Like this war and everything else. And the footing between the United States and Russia at the time was not hostile. It wasn't necessarily overly friendly. It was just kind of muddy in the middle. Muddy, exactly. Yeah. At the time. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So what was it like?

[Rick Sanchez]

It was everything Larry King said it would be. Really surprisingly.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I'm not surprised, but it's interesting, but I think others would be surprised.

[Rick Sanchez]

So, like you, I like Dominion of my product. Right. Of course. I want to. I want to be a writer. I want to be. Talk to my producers. I want to know who my other writers are.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Rick Sanchez]

And so I picked my staff. I wrote my entire show. I picked my topics. I led the editorial meeting every morning discussing what was going to be on our news agenda of the day. And can I tell you something? I never had that opportunity at CNN or Fox or NBC. I'm sorry to say this.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've worked at all three, and I can confirm that.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. I mean, you do have some sense or some liberty or journalistic independence when you work at those places, but not like this. I'll just say right now, and I hope I'm not breaking anybody's heart out there who's a big CNN fan or any cable news fans out there, but if you decide you want to interview somebody and he's not on their list of okay interviewees, they're not going to let you interview him. And if you want to go down a certain path.

[Tucker Carlson]

He's banned.

[Rick Sanchez]

He's banned.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I've run up against that many times.

[Rick Sanchez]

And you're saying this is a good man with interesting things to say or.

[Tucker Carlson]

He'S in the news, like, this is a relev person.

[Rick Sanchez]

Our.

[Tucker Carlson]

Our viewers need to hear about this.

[Rick Sanchez]

Sure. The Jeffrey Sacks of the world, the Meimers of the world, the Colonel McGregors of the world. They're not allowed to be on those. Right. It's. It's crazy. So I started seeing some of these things when I was at cnn. I saw them as well at. At NBC and Fox, you know, to be fair, maybe sometimes coming from a different direction. And, And. And sure, I was allowed to have some, you know, say in the editorial decisions, but not as much.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can I just ask, since I worked at the same three companies that you worked.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, you and I worked at CNN together.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly. I would Say the one. So people look at, you know, CNN and Ms. On the left.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Fox is on the right. But the. But there's also this sense that, like, wait, maybe they're telling versions of the same story.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I found over 25 years that the one thing that none of those networks would accept was anybody who questioned the neocon storyline.

[Rick Sanchez]

Correct.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I actually did have Doug McGregor, to Fox's great credit, they allowed me to have him on, but I think that. I don't think he's been on since I left. And I think they really hated him. But I think Doug McGregor is as offensive to FOX executives as he is to CNN executives, as he is to MSNBC executives. You think that's fair?

[Rick Sanchez]

I think it's very fair. And kudos to you for being the first person to put his thought process.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, well, I mean, so different it was. And that is really the credit goes to, to the Murdochs who let me do that, you know, a lot of things to criticize, but they did.

[Rick Sanchez]

And your message was simple. We're being told we're winning this war in Ukraine. We're not.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Rick Sanchez]

And here's a man who's going to take us through this.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's all. But I don't want to make about me. I just want to say I think we had the same experience, which is the red line at all three channels is exactly the same question. Neocon foreign policy, and we're done.

[Rick Sanchez]

So as a journalist working at rt, going back to your question was almost nirvana for me. Yes, it was fantastic. I reveled in this opportunity. I would get up with a, you know, with a little skip in my step every day, thinking about what we can talk about and how we're going to explain it and who we're going to talk to, as difficult as it was because a lot of guests wouldn't want to come on because it was rt, you know, but it was really a great experience, especially comparatively speaking to what I had experienced in the past. And my old friend Larry King was right. They generally did not mess with me. And when they did, when we had normal editorial arguments, which happen in every newsroom and should, of course, we would talk it out and sometimes I would win and sometimes I would lose, but it would be a discussion. It wouldn't be like, this is what you're doing. So it's fascinating. Great experience.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you felt that RT from, you know, internal editorial perspective, obviously you're the anchor, so you see what happens. You felt that it was freer than Fox, NBC or Ms.

[Rick Sanchez]

I wrote my entire show from top to bottom, and nobody looked at it until it went on the air. How's that?

[Tucker Carlson]

There you go. There you go.

[Rick Sanchez]

Can I, you know, can. Is there anything more than that? Nobody looked at my script before I went on the air. Except. Except me and some of the editors who had to put pictures, of course.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right?

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. But nobody was looking at it. Aha. No, this goes out. You can't say this. You can't say that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Amazing.

[Rick Sanchez]

Because they trusted me. I mean, look, man, I mean, I've got, I've been a part of two Peabody Award winning teams. I've got a Dupont, I've got five Emmys, I've interviewed four US Presidents, I've sat down with Fidel Castro and Mikhail Gorbachev. And yet there's not a single entity in the United States who seems to be interested in hiring me. Why?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, now I would say, I mean, there may be a lot of reasons, but now that you've worked at rt, I think it's illegal to hire you.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, it's something.

[Tucker Carlson]

So how long were you there?

[Rick Sanchez]

I worked for the first three years and then left prior to the invasion because my friends back in South Florida who were now building this $4.4 billion healthcare company, and I was one of the original partners of it, said, can you come back and help us handle the marketing? I mean, we need you to just jump back in there and there's some things we want you to fix. And I was like, ah, yeah, yeah. So I left and I said, okay, I'm gonna go back and go back and do the, you know, the, the job building back this healthcare company that I had built with my friends. And, and while I was doing that, I then got a call from another dear friend, Ben Swan, who's a really good journalist, and he said, would you, you want, you want to do a show? I said, oh, my God, I'd love to do a show. I miss doing a show. So after taking a little hiatus for about a year and a half, I went back and started doing a show. He said, it's not allowed to air in the United States, but you get to produce your own show and they air it all over the world and you get to do it in Spanish and in English. So suddenly I started doing the show again. Tucker.

[Tucker Carlson]

And when would. That was after the Ukraine war started.

[Rick Sanchez]

That was after the Ukraine war started. Correct.

[Tucker Carlson]

How was. I mean, that must have been because that was the moment when. Well, the Ukraine war is not a Ukraine war. It's a war against Russia led by the United States.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And you're working at rt Russia Today.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So what was that like?

[Rick Sanchez]

It was tough. It was tough. But after reading enough and knowing enough and hearing some of the people that we aforementioned, the McGregor's and Sacks, and I started thinking to myself, you know, I should do this because we need to have a conversation with these people. We need journalists and others and academics and whoever to start engaging with the journalists and the academics over there so we can have discussions and work out a solution before we start another fricking world war here. I mean, so this will be a good thing. I can make the world a better place by having a show from the United States that shares the American perspective from a person who loves America, of course. A guy who was born in a communist country and spent all his life listening to his parents say we're in the greatest nation on earth, and. And sharing that with people around the world. And RT was gonna give me an opportunity to do that. They weren't asking me to be a Russian. They were asking me to be a journalist who happened to be American. And why wouldn't I tell that kind of story?

[Tucker Carlson]

I totally agree.

[Rick Sanchez]

And that's what we grew up with. I remember as a kid watching Phil Donahue interview Brezhnev in New York, surrounded in a studio. When Brezhnev would go to the un, he would interview him. And here he was in the studio with all these women asking this man questions. I remember. That was Phil Donahue. I remember Ted Koppel once a having a Soviet reporter on his name escapes me. But he became very famous. Yes. And they would go back and forth and debate ideas. Suddenly we're living in an era where our president hasn't spoken to their president for almost four years. This isn't right.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's lunacy. And we're so diminished by it, actually, and imperiled by it. I would say I've had every thought that you've had. That's why I've been to Russia a couple times for that exact reason, as a proud American who's never leaving, doesn't have another passport, hasn't served in anyone else's military.

[Rick Sanchez]

I've never been to Russia.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right. Well, you should go. It's a wonderful place, but. But it doesn't make me less American. I love my country more than anything. But anyway, the point is, I can understand and empathize with and so strongly agree with everything you said. But I wonder, for that first year or two years you know, the anti Russian hysteria in the United States was at, like, a comical pitch. Like, I, I don't think the US Open put Russian names on the screen of the players. Like, people were not allowed. Russians weren't allowed to compete in sports. It really became pretty evil, actually. I would say, but you signed back up with rt. Like, what was that like with people? You know, what did they say to you?

[Rick Sanchez]

I tried not to bring it up in polite conversation.

[Tucker Carlson]

It would get impolite really fast.

[Rick Sanchez]

It's like you're doing what I would. You know, people would ask me, I'd say, oh, my God, Rick Sanchez, I grew up watching you on tv, you know, in Miami, where I used to be on local television. And they say, so what are you doing now? I'd say, well, I'm doing a bunch of global stuff, because you just. Unless the person happens to be. If I recognize that it's someone who's astute and has some kind of geopolitical observations or knows the world or is kind of smart, then I tell them, and they go, oh, man, that's cool. That's great. But you just don't want to have an argument with people during the day.

[Tucker Carlson]

What does your kids say?

[Rick Sanchez]

They were perfectly fine with it. Yeah, they totally understood. We've taught them. Suzanne and I have really taught well. She's a much better parent than I am. But I've done my part as well in making the kids understand that we live in a world where there's a lot of different opinions and a lot of different ways of looking at things. So you couldn't talk to my kids and come away thinking, oh, they're liberal. Oh, they're conservative, or they're this, or they just. They're smart enough to understand and recognize things for what they are.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Rick Sanchez]

And I think that's important.

[Tucker Carlson]

It sounds like you've done a great job. I couldn't agree more.

[Rick Sanchez]

But she did. She did.

[Tucker Carlson]

I believe you. Was there blow. Was there blowback, though, at all to your personal life?

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. Not to mention you always felt like if ever you wanted to do something outside, or let's suppose Fox News would call, one of your ex, you know, colleagues would call and say, hey, Rick, we were thinking about inviting you, because I remember you used to talk about such and such, and they'd want to book you, and you'd think they were booking you for something, and you go, sure, I'd love to. Come on. And then all of a sudden, you get that famous phone call that all bookers had.

[Tucker Carlson]

We're going in a different direction.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, we changed the show. We're not going to do that story. And actually was they found out that you work at rt, of course now they're not going to have you on simply because you work in rt, which is so prejudicial.

[Tucker Carlson]

What's also so small minded and childish, like these are children who don't know anything about the world at all.

[Rick Sanchez]

Rick Sanchez, we want you to talk about the new elections in Mexico, but we're not going to get you on because you work at rt. What the hell does one thing have to do with the other?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, of course. And by the way, let me just back up a bit. You said that by the time. So you were there from roughly speaking like 2019 to late 2021, end of.

[Rick Sanchez]

21 or something like that, and then.

[Tucker Carlson]

You come back in say 22 or 23.

[Rick Sanchez]

Correct.

[Tucker Carlson]

After the war begins. Yes, but by that point you can't watch RT in the United States.

[Rick Sanchez]

RT is not available in the United States. It was totally banned.

[Tucker Carlson]

So the problem there, it's not really about Russia, who owns RT or its agenda. It's about the United States, which has a bill of rights. The first right enumerated is the right to free speech. The right to see, hear and say whatever you choose.

[Rick Sanchez]

Because that had already been gotten rid of.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're not a slave, you're a free man. So no one can control what I hear or what I think. Right. Well, but how did they ban a TV network in the United States that. When did that happen?

[Rick Sanchez]

After the war in Ukraine, they decided that no one in the United States should have the right to understand the perspective other than the Ukrainian perspective. Therefore, rt, which was possibly going to share the Russian perspective, should not be allowed to continue to operate in the United States. How did that happen? Like. Well, they just put it out an edict, I think that just, I think it went through the Treasury Department once again. But what happened? Like your license is revoked and this particular entity is not allowed to operate.

[Tucker Carlson]

What about civil liberties? Aren't Americans allowed to hear whatever they want to hear?

[Rick Sanchez]

Well, that's what I thought. Right. Congress shall pass no law, freedom of speech, all that jazz. Where'd it go? But then Biden doubles down. Right. And that, that. Do you want me to share the phone call?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I want to know everything. I mean this is. But I just want to set the context. This is pure craziness. And they can say Russia bad, Russia bad Putin agent all they want, I don't care personally. But what they can't do is end the Constitution because that's not their right. It pre exists their rule and it will, I hope, endure after they're long gone. So like, I don't really know the part where they were, they ended the First Amendment. I don't really understand that.

[Rick Sanchez]

You know, it's really weird because if you watched my show and many people did, and some Americans were watching the show, cause they'd, you know, back channel it somehow through the Internet or something. My show was very, very popular in Latin America. One of the most popular shows in Latin America. Huge in India and in different parts of the world. Because RT happens to be one of the most respected, you know, journalistic networks, content creators in the whole world. It's a very viable, you know, they put a lot of money and they've got a lot of smart people working there and I think they generally do a pretty good job with their product.

[Tucker Carlson]

I will say this, I'm not allowed to watch it. So obviously I haven't seen that much as an American, it's forbidden for me to have those ideas or that information. But to the extent I have seen it. Super interesting, super interesting. It's not just news on a loop like the channels that we worked at are. It's like, here are the eight stories of the day. We're just going to flog the shit out of them and you can't hear anything else. They have tons of interesting stuff.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. And my show was not necessarily every day about the Ukraine war, nor was it about Putin, nor was it, it was US politics, It was a little bit of India, it was about the South China Sea. You know, we covered all the interesting things that were going on out with interesting people from around the world who would love to come on and talk to us. And a lot of people found it invigorating and interesting to watch a perspective that was different than the normal perspective you get here in the United States.

[Tucker Carlson]

Totally agree. And to hear an American perspective, which as an American you brought is I think really cool and important and it's.

[Rick Sanchez]

Good for us and it's good for them and it's good for just talking.

[Tucker Carlson]

And by the way, even if it's not good or you think it's not good, you're not allowed to, you're not allowed to get in the way of it because that's against our constitution, which is the basis of our civilization. So back off.

[Rick Sanchez]

A government is not allowed in this country, or so we're told, to tell us who we can work for, who we can watch or what news entities can deliver news and which can't.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

Www.merrestancespaymentscoalition.com so then I'm. I just wanted to get that as a sort of foundation for the story you're about to tell. So then what happened?

[Rick Sanchez]

So this last year, sometime around August, I come home and I'd had a great newscast last year.

[Tucker Carlson]

So 2024, correct?

[Rick Sanchez]

2024.

[Tucker Carlson]

So right in the middle of a presidential campaign.

[Rick Sanchez]

That's correct. In the middle of a presidential campaign. Keyword presidential campaign. I get this interesting phone call. I had just come home from work and I get a phone call. And it's an old friend who used to work with me in mainstream news. He was a manager at cnn, as a matter of fact. Ricky, what's going on? Yeah, hi. Oh, my God. What are you doing calling me? He goes, ah, I just wanted to check up on you, see how things are going. I said, good, Jim. Things are going pretty. Really pretty well. He says, just calling to let you know that I'm now working somewhere else. I'm no longer in news. I said, oh, okay. And where I work, a lot of people are talking about you. And I said, well, cool. That's neat. Where are you working? He says, like the State Department, kind of. Come on. I'm like, no. I'm like, oh, wait, you work at the State Department. Who knows? USAID and.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or other agencies.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yes. And the guys are talking about you. I said, well, good. What are they saying? Well, your show is very popular, so come on. Yeah. I said, well, what do you think? He goes, well, they don't necessarily like some of the things that you're saying. And I said, okay. And I said, well, they're welcome to come on and tell me. Whoever they are, tell me. I mean, we could have them on as a guest and we can discuss whatever it is. But throughout the conversation, he was very evasive, but was letting me know that. I guess. I guess he was letting me know that I was being watched. And that was part of his mission. And not only was he telling me that he was. That I was being watched, but he would kind of hope that I would somehow change what I was saying, but he wasn't coming out and exactly saying it. So when we were done with the conversation, I remember I hopped the phone and I thought, what the hell was that? Was that a warning or threat?

[Tucker Carlson]

Or maybe both.

[Rick Sanchez]

Sure. Or maybe both. And then three weeks later, all of a sudden, I'm hearing. And then it Happens the Biden administration has decided to go through the Treasury Department, this little agency called OFAC that most people have never heard of, which controls what businesses in the United States are allowed to exist and which ones aren't. And they shut down the place where I worked. And not only that, they passed a measure within that provision that seemed to say, and I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert on it, but it seemed to say that any American working for this entity will go to jail or be fined if they continue working for that entity.

[Tucker Carlson]

So.

[Rick Sanchez]

And that's what happened. And the next day, man, I was on the street.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's absolutely mind blowing. So let's just back up. You say three weeks later, the State Department shut down the place where you work. What does that mean?

[Rick Sanchez]

That means that they officially announced that RT as an entity and anybody associated with media in Russia, I think is the way they wrote it, is not allowed to hire or even contract anyone in the United States. I, Rick Sanchez Productions, my show had been hired by an entity to do a show that was airing on rt. I didn't work directly for rt, but I worked for a US Company that was doing shows. They sold the shows and they sold this show to RT. So my show ended up being on RT. Well, they back channel. The Treasury Department under Mr. Biden decided to follow all those little loopholes or whatever. And they went all the way back and said, not only can RT not exist in the United States, RT is not allowed to pay money to anybody in the United States for any product. They can't buy a product. They can't contract anybody. They can't. Nobody can work for anybody who contracts through rt. And if any of those people are caught in the United States somehow contracting or working for rt, I don't care if you're a janitor or a carpenter or a plumber or a. You will be fined or even go to jail. That's the new law, according to Mr. Biden. Three weeks afterward, and they said something in the dicta, in the explanation about why they were doing this, that they thought that the Russians were once again preparing to interfere in our election as they had before in the case with Mr. Trump. So they were shutting down RT and anybody who could be in any way associated with rt. Even though I wasn't doing pro Trump stuff, in fact, I was criticizing Mr. Trump during the campaign for certain things that he did, just like I was criticizing Kamala Harris. It was totally unfair that here I am just doing a basic newscast every day, sharing it with them that was getting. Garnering tens of millions of people around the world. And a lot of people thought it was fair and it was sharing a perspective that Americans needed to hear. And the Biden administration said, no, you cannot practice your craft as a journalist if you're in any way associated with those people.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it wasn't airing in the United States.

[Rick Sanchez]

No, it wasn't.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's just pure craziness.

[Rick Sanchez]

Well, that's what happened, and it happened in America. And it hurts. Being a guy who was born in a communist country and has spent his whole life saying we are so different than the rest of the world because we allow people to say and think and work wherever they want. And all of a sudden, here I was being told I couldn't work or think or, or. Or say whatever I wanted.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's, that's like, unbelievable. Did anyone from the U. S. State Department reach out to you after?

[Rick Sanchez]

No. No.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you speak again to the sinister CNN colleague who called you from the State Department after this happened?

[Rick Sanchez]

He. He sent me a. A Christmas card. And recently.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did he leave like a horse's head on your bed or anything like that?

[Rick Sanchez]

He did. We did have your. No such mafia behavior. I mean, we did have a secondary conversation, and interestingly enough, he suggested that he would help me if I wanted to maybe go to work like at Fox or someplace like that, that they could make some phone calls.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, he could. So we'll welcome you back into neocon world if you'll just bow before the throne.

[Rick Sanchez]

Isn't that kind of the feeling you get? Is that what they were saying? I don't know. It's just all so damn coded, man.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's coded, but the message is clear as well.

[Rick Sanchez]

But when you're living it and you're experiencing it, and thank God, you know, we've done well, and Suzanne and I are, you know, there's other people who are affected by this. You know, guys who were producers and writers, all Americans. They hired teams of people all over Washington and, and New York. And they're good people. People who worked with you at Fox and people who worked with me at CNN and people who worked in local news. They're just regular American people. Writers, producers, you know, and they're all out on their ass simply because Mr. Biden thought that the Russians might be mean to him and, you know.

[Tucker Carlson]

But not even in the United States.

[Rick Sanchez]

Exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

I will say one of the smartest people I've ever met in my long life and most patriotic American I've ever met in my Life certainly up there. Worked at rt. Just a fact. And I, I met on a, on a news assignment in a foreign country years ago, and just a truly brilliant person.

[Rick Sanchez]

But anyway, I found the Russians in general to be, and have found them to, since I've been working with them to be extremely transactional and extremely honest sometimes, you know, more so than we are.

[Tucker Carlson]

Blunt. Yeah.

[Rick Sanchez]

They say what they think, you know, what they want, and when you talk to them, they're very exact about what they want. And I kind of find that admirable. It's a, you know, we're talking in generalities here. Hasty generalizations are never good. There's all kinds of Russians, just like there's all kinds of Americans. But, but generally speaking, I found their mannerism to be very easy to work with. And for.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I thought. I grew up in a country that took the Second World War seriously and its lessons. Our whole civilization in the, our whole side in the US was based on the lessons we were learned in World War II from the Nazis. That's, that's the country I grew up in. And one of the main, you know, so what were the lessons? We don't judge people on the basis of their appearance. Racism is bad.

[Rick Sanchez]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Eugenics and all that garbage. We're against that. And number two, we don't demonize whole groups of people. If an individual does something bad, we can say that and we can punish that individual, but we can't punish his parents or his children or his neighbors because they didn't do anything. We don't believe in collective punishment. That's immoral. It's anti Christian. But it's also the lesson of the Second World War. And so I totally buy that. I still believe that. Truly in my heart, I believe that. Call me liberal, but it's so crazy to see, like, our whole society doing that. And it's like, you don't like Putin. That's fine. You've got all sorts of, like, things you don't like. He's. That he's doing. You want to do things he's preventing you from doing. I get it. But to turn around and say every 150 million Russians are evil, or Russia is a gas station with nuclear weapons, like that low IQ buffoon McCain used to say and all the other low IQ buffoons in the US Senate, which is like 95% of them, it's a gas station with nuclear weapons. Really? Have you ever read Tolstoy? Have you ever been there? Like, you may hate Russia, but to say it's a Gas station. You're an idiot, actually. And to hurt professional tennis players because they have Slavic last names. I don't want to live in a country that does that. Do you know what I mean?

[Rick Sanchez]

Oh, absolutely.

[Tucker Carlson]

I thought it was. First they came for the so and so, then they came for the so and so, and I said nothing. It's like that extends to all human beings. If they did that to the Malaysians or the Chinese or anybody, it doesn't matter. The Belgians. You can't collectively punish people.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, right. And we did, since you made the historical reference to World War II, last time I checked. And there's no American who knows this unless we, as parents tell them. But I hate to break it to you, but the French were not the reason that Hitler was defeated. I'm aware. I know we think this. And I know every year or every couple of years, we have this, you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Know, the French Resistance did it. Yeah, yeah.

[Rick Sanchez]

Normandy thing where we invite everybody but the Russians and the French president, whoever he happens to be at the time, whether it's Macron to Mitterrand, sits there and says, oh, look what we did in Europe. Look what we did. Really?

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I know.

[Rick Sanchez]

You lasted five minutes, dude. But, yeah, yeah. Part of the story.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's just that impulse, the impulse of the crowd to call someone unpopular and then lynch him. Like that's a human impulse. All people have that impulse. It's incredibly ugly. Civilization exists to keep it in check. That's why we're against lynching. It's why we're against war crimes. It's why we're against, like, mob behavior in general. And to see the US Government encouraging that, whether it's against people who don't get vaccinated or Russians or just pick a group. I don't care who it's against. I'm opposed to that. Right.

[Rick Sanchez]

Just know this, Tucker, and I think you do. Every time a bullet is spent, every time a helicopter crashes, every time a fighter plane goes down, somebody somewhere in the United States says, cha Ching.

[Tucker Carlson]

I hate that.

[Rick Sanchez]

And I mean, you're right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I know that you're right.

[Rick Sanchez]

Fortunately, wars and enemies are chosen for a specific reason. And more often than not, it has to do with financial reasons. And it has nothing to do with the good people of this country.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Rick Sanchez]

Just like there are good people in Wisconsin who don't want to share their communities with tons of immigrants. And it's not because they're bad people or dislike immigrants. And they're not the ones who started the problem in Honduras or Guatemala. Caused 500,000 people to leave the countryside and come to the United States.

[Tucker Carlson]

Completely agree.

[Rick Sanchez]

So there are some people in our gut. We. I love the United States, but there are some people in our government who do some very nefarious things who create bad results that make the rest of us feel it and look bad. That's the shit we got to take care of.

[Tucker Carlson]

And hate each other, too. They inspire hate. I don't like that. I don't think a government should ever whip its population into a frenzy of hate. I think it's really scary, even against the Russians. So I'm hardly an expert on Russia. I've been there a couple times. I don't speak Russian. I don't. You know, I'm not Russian. I'm from La Jolla.

[Rick Sanchez]

But I've come to understand their perspective, and I think it's a fair perspective.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, you worked with them, so that's my question. You know more about Russians than I do. Just because you worked with a lot of them, what was their perspective on the war?

[Rick Sanchez]

Their perspective on the war was quite simple. It goes back back decades where it seemed to them that NATO and the United States, which many people would argue NATO has really run out of Washington, have for years broken their promises. It's almost this simple if we were trying to explain it in very simple terms. After the Soviet Union broke apart, they were desperate for a friend. And we said we would be their friend and we would show them how democracy and capitalism works. And we sent the brightest minds in America. And we even had James Baker say to them, don't worry, because you're no longer our enemy. We're not going to encroach on you. We're not going to point missiles at you. We're not going to continue NATO expansion all the way up to your border. We're just not going to do that. We promise we're not going to do that. That. And then they found out over the years that that wasn't true, that every single thing that we said we would not do, we actually did. And if you actually looked at Russia and then you looked at NATO, now it's almost like they're feeling a little bit surrounded.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, because the point of NATO is to surround them.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. From Estonia to Latvia, and there's missiles pointed there, and they started getting fear. So now you have this here, which is Ukraine, which is almost the end of the encirclement. And they finally thought to themselves, as citizens, and their president said, guys, this is too much. I mean, now you want to Take Ukraine. We got a 4,000 year history here going back to Catherine the Great. And it's now you say not only do you want to take NATO, but you're already putting military hardware in there. And then there was this thing which they believe is very true, which our government, under a woman named Victoria Nuland in 2014 helped to foment, along with Mr. Biden, who was vice president, a coup in Ukraine that caused a democratically elected president to be removed simply because he was friendly to Russia. He wasn't necessarily a Russian, but he was friendly to Russia. In other words, he wanted to have good relations with Russia.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's one of the world's great powers. Right on his border. Correct. Be like, is the President of Mexico generally friendly to the President of the United States?

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

No choice, right?

[Rick Sanchez]

Not on everything, but they're gonna have relations. We decided it was wrong for the president of Ukraine to have relations, certainly not friendly relations with Russia. So we went in and we started a couple, which we've been known to do, as you know. And as a result of that coup, we had the guy essentially eventually removed. And that finally was the last straw. That's where the Russians, their mindset, their president, their politicians said, this is too much. This just cannot continue. And that's what led to this war. So that's their way of looking at it like they were being encroached. Is it right? Is it wrong? Do they have a right to think that way? It's not for me to decide. Maybe historians can decide that. But there is another story. Besides, one day the Russians just got angry and decided to go after Ukraine for no reason whatsoever, as they're rebuilding.

[Tucker Carlson]

The Soviet Union and they want to take Poland. And it's like the dumbest storyline I've ever heard.

[Rick Sanchez]

And there's nothing factually to back that story up in any way.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm aware. I'm aware.

[Rick Sanchez]

They have been losing territory, not gaining territory, and they're fine with it. And they don't want to go. They don't want to. I don't think the Russ want to run Ukraine.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do they need more land, the Russians?

[Rick Sanchez]

No. But part of Ukraine is Russian.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I'm aware. But I'm just saying the idea that they want Eastern Europe, the largest country in the world, that's like extremely complicated.

[Rick Sanchez]

Seven times US.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, it's what I have noticed. And that makes me sadder even than anything because ultimately I care about what happens in my country because my kids live here. And so watching the style of debate in America change to, you know, a system, an age old system, a Western system where, you know, you think one thing, I think another. We, like, talk it through. The guy with the best point wins, right to a system where we just create a villain. And if we don't like what the other person is saying, we tie him to the villain and it ends the conversation. Shut up, Rick Sanchez. You're a Putin puppet, correct? You took money from Putin. Why should I listen to you? And it's like, at first, when this started happening, it started happening a while ago. I was like, that's so childish. I'm not even gonna acknowledge it. And then it spread like the stage four cancer that it is. And all of a sudden everybody thinks like that. Everybody thinks like that. It's like you're connected to Russia. The latest is Qatar, which is a country of 300,000 people. It's like, oh, Qatar is running our American media. It's like so floridly insane, but also so, like, unimpressive. Like, do you really think like that?

[Rick Sanchez]

There's something that bothers me so much lately. I created. I just. Well, because I'm bored. And I created a new podcast. It's called Journalistically Speaking. And I named it Journalistically Speaking for a reason. You know, I got a journalism degree from the University of Minnesota. I've practiced journalism most of my life. I feel good about it. I think it's an honorable profession. But I'm kind of trying to stick it in the eye of the other people who call themselves journalists who work at all these places. Today I started looking around and looking at MSNBC and CNN and fox, how the people who work at these places were former spokespersons for the Pentagon or the State Department or President Bush or President this or President that. And I'm thinking, and they say Russians are state tv. We've got literally the person who spoke for the President, United States, is now the anchor at such and such a network.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I agree.

[Rick Sanchez]

And they're all over the place. And what is more state TV than that? And most of them didn't even study journalism and have never covered a story and wouldn't know what it looks like if it hit him in the ass. So funny.

[Tucker Carlson]

There's this one chick on MSNBC who I knew and I can't remember her new last name. It was Nicole Devenish. Nicole Wallace is her name now. And she was Jeb Bush's like, coffee girl and Flack, kind of like in the 90s. And I covered Jeb Bush, so I remember her very well. She was totally incompetent then, but she was incompetent in this very specific way that people in Washington are. She was totally obedient to the message.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

No creativity, no independent thinking, pretty low iq, nasty. But man, if you told her to say something, she would just say it.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And it's so sad to see someone like that rewarded in this great country, which I guess she has been. I think she has a TV show still, right?

[Rick Sanchez]

Nicole Wallace.

[Tucker Carlson]

Nicole Wallace, yes.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes, they're still on the air.

[Rick Sanchez]

She worked for McCain. McCain.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think she ultimately went from a cane, but I knew her when she worked for Jeb Bush and. But I just couldn't believe, like, she's a journalist. Yeah, like, are you joking? She's like a flack. And not even a good one.

[Rick Sanchez]

They're either.

[Tucker Carlson]

But obedience was her main.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. And that's qualification and that's how they keep their jobs. And that's why the Rick Sanchez's of the world get fired from those places and the Tucker Carlson's of the world get fired. Oh, I'm so gracious.

[Tucker Carlson]

Whatever happened there? You know, I shouldn't even ask you this in the middle, you know, on camera, because I don't know what your answer is gonna be, but there was a guy.

[Rick Sanchez]

Well, you don't know what any of my answers.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, that's true. No, but this could be. But Dylan Ratigan.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay, so I think I was at NBC.

[Rick Sanchez]

Brilliant guy.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And he was on the left and I remember thinking, oh, he's like some liberal. He was not a liberal. No, he was on the like traditional. He was like free thinking, left guy.

[Rick Sanchez]

Right, right.

[Tucker Carlson]

And he started saying stuff. I think I worked there when this happened. And he went from being like, oh, liberal guy, whatever, abortion, abortion, abortion, to being like, hey, why don't we pay people fair wages? Which is a real thing as far as I'm concerned. And all of a sudden he like disappeared. We never heard from him again, whatever. And so I thought he was impressive, but I knew that his brand of politics was not acceptable. Whatever happened to him?

[Rick Sanchez]

They did the same thing with him that they did with me. I mean, they said, look, I know you've got a new contract you signed just a little while ago, so we're gonna continue to pay you for the next two and a half or three years. And the only thing is you can't say anything bad about us and you can't really take another job unless it's more money. And it's crazy. I don't know where they get the money, but they have a lot of money, those places.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I know they do because they.

[Rick Sanchez]

Just hand it out. And they told Dylan Ratigan, no, we don't want you working here anymore. And it was like they did it from one week to the next. And he was gone simply because he was challenging the status quo.

[Tucker Carlson]

He. And he was. And I remember, like, I didn't pay any attention to Dylan Ratigan at all. But then one day I heard him say something. I was like, well, that's. I don't even know if I agreed with it or not, but it was interesting.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I could tell that Dylan Ratigan was actually thinking for himself. And he's smart. I totally agree. I don't know him, but I remember thinking, this guy's smart.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And then he was gone.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. I got that same feeling at CNN as soon as I started. Started challenging certain principles, criticizing, for example, certain things than the elders at cnn. Those people who were in that. The, the. The Row, they called it. Oh, I remember this thing called the Row. And it was like five, six, seven, eight older guys who decided what stories went on the air, why they went on the air, when they should go on the air. And I remember I wanted to start doing certain stories about some of the mistakes and foibles that we had made in Latin America, for example, that were causing this immigration thing that was going on. And they said, no, no, no, we're not reporting that. I said, what do you mean we're not reporting that? I said, you know, to a certain extent, we kind of started a civil war in Guatemala that ended up in the deaths of 200,000 people. And we removed a democratically elected president back in the 1950s, which has led to the problems that have gone into Honduras. And as the only Hispanic anchor in America working at your network, I'd like to of these stories not to be critical so we can learn. We make mistakes.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's 100%.

[Rick Sanchez]

They said, no, you will not do that story, period.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why?

[Rick Sanchez]

How? I guess it made certain people in the neocon establishment look bad. And they were trying to move that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Foreign intervention, especially in a country you don't understand, has massive consequence, generational consequences. Exactly right. Have. Have some humility. When you act like you bomb somebody's country, everyone's like, oh, just, just bomb the country. Okay, fine, you bomb the country, kill a bunch of people, take out a nuclear site. But, like, what happens then?

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, yeah. And, and maybe there was a good explanation for it. I agree there was something that was going to lead, but you can't just say, well, the guy seemed to have some leftist tendencies, so we took him out. What I mean, you know, especially since.

[Tucker Carlson]

He was interesting and it does make you wonder, like, like the people who remain. And I like them perfectly fine. I have nothing. I always like Wolf Blitzer, always get along with Anderson Cooper. There are a ton of people like that who've just like, kind of been there forever at. At all the networks, not just cnn, but. And I never had any problem with any of them. Wolf was always nice to me. For example.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yes, Wolf's a really nice guy.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes, totally. I completely agree. And Anderson Cooper never had any problem with him.

[Rick Sanchez]

A little weird, but he's a nice.

[Tucker Carlson]

I never got.

[Rick Sanchez]

So are we all.

[Tucker Carlson]

Any kind of human warmth sense from him, but whatever. But in order to stay at a channel like that for that long, the number of deep moral compromises you have to make is crazy. Don't you think? Is that fair?

[Rick Sanchez]

I was watching you and Cuomo the other day, and I thought, wow, the questions that you guys were going back and forth on, I was thinking, does he really not know? Does he really think, for example, not to bust his chops? Because I think he's a good guy and a generous, Generally does a good show. He's inquisitive enough to ask good questions. But guys like him who you think this guy is really smart. And when he's kind of defending Zelensky as some kind of novel perfect leader, I'm thinking, dude, really? I mean, the information's out there. If you just want to look for it or do you not want to find it? I don't know.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Rick Sanchez]

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[Tucker Carlson]

What is that? Do you think that it is a kind of instinctive deference to true power that keeps people in line? Is there some kind of conference call I've never been invited on? Like how does everybody know it kind of of what the red line is.

[Rick Sanchez]

When you are hired in the United States of America as a communicator, one of the first things you adhere to is the principle of power. So having access, if you're a local reporter in Wichita to the police chief so that you can go out on the by busts that they're going to do.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Rick Sanchez]

Or the investigation on a local politician, you yearn for that connection somewhere along the line that never seems to be broken. For some people it's like if all I gotta do to be a good communicator is get tight with the mayor's office, the police chief and then as you grow, maybe you end up at CNN now it's the State Department.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, it's totally right.

[Rick Sanchez]

CIA. As a journalist, I represent power. And somewhere along the line, somebody needs to slap the shit out of all of us and say, no, you don't. No, you don't. Your job is not to represent. Your job is to represent the people down there, the workers, the people who pay the taxes. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And your audience, those people. Yes, they.

[Rick Sanchez]

They are the people you need to work for. Your audience, the average American. And they're not. They're like, yeah, the average American's here, but the people that I really want to impress are over here because that's what gives me access. And access is everything. Access is growth, and it gets me the next job. And that's a strange little thing that we've developed in this country.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you ever know Jen Griffin at Fox, the Pentagon reporter?

[Rick Sanchez]

I think I may have met her.

[Tucker Carlson]

But no, I don't want to single her out. She's perfectly nice. That's not true, actually.

[Rick Sanchez]

Pentagon reporters are usually saloons.

[Tucker Carlson]

Whoa, whoa. And what's interesting is she just carries the. She lies and she carries the Pentagon line. Not the. The kind of top, you know, not the Defense Secretary line, he's a political appointee, but the permanent Pentagon, the interests of this agency, the largest government agency. And she just carries her line no matter what. No matter what. It doesn't matter how implausible it is. And it's a neocon line. It's a very strong.

[Rick Sanchez]

And when you challenge her, when she's on your show, which I'm sure you had this happen, because I had this happen in cnn, I'd, you know, have the inter. The Pentagon reporter on, and I'd challenge her on a question. She would complain to management, and then management would call me in and say, hey, hey, take it easy with your questioning and what you were doing.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are you serious?

[Rick Sanchez]

Oh, I remember John Klein calling me the president of cnn. You. You remember John?

[Tucker Carlson]

Do I remember John?

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah. We want to go at a rabbit hole here.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I'm not going to.

[Rick Sanchez]

But John would call me and say, Rick, such and such says, you got to really back off on this stuff. It's like, why? It's a perfectly legitimate question, John. She's upset.

[Tucker Carlson]

Was a test of. Of my personal decency and, and religious principles because I was so mistreated by John Klein in the most dishonest. No one's ever been that dishonest with me ever in my life that when John Klein got fired, which was of course inevitable from cnn, I called him to Say, I heard you get fired. And I'm just so grateful that you did get fired because you deserve it.

[Rick Sanchez]

Did you say that?

[Tucker Carlson]

I didn't. So I called him on a cell. This was. Years later. He picks up. And then I was like, that's really. Don't do that to somebody. Like, I'm a Christian. Don't act like that to somebody. You know, kick him when he's down. Don't do that. So I just hung up. He's like, hello, Tucker.

[Rick Sanchez]

Hello?

[Tucker Carlson]

And I hung up. And that was the best I could do.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What I should have done as a Christian, has called him and say, you know, John, I. I've. We had problems between us, but I know what it feels like to be fired. I'm really sorry. I. I could. I wasn't man enough to do that, but I did pull back.

[Rick Sanchez]

What a moment.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, that.

[Rick Sanchez]

That little moment, that. That half a second on the phone.

[Tucker Carlson]

Of, I want to be that person. I don't want to kick the suffering man. I'm glad about your cancer diagnosis. I don't want person. But, boy, I was tempted because, I mean, John Klein is. I've never dealt with anybody that dishonest. Like, literally. I resigned my job at cnn. I went to lunch with my brother at the Palm on 19th Street. I'll never forget. This was like, back when you didn't check your cell phone all the time. I get back to my office and I have a call from Dave Bowder at the ap. Is the AP writer. And he's like, call me back right away. He's like, I'm sorry, you just got fired from cns. We have a statement from John Klein. I was like, what do you mean? I resigned this morning. I didn't get fired. What are you talking about? He said, no, no. John Klein called me. Well, I was at lunch.

[Rick Sanchez]

Oh, my God.

[Tucker Carlson]

I was like, are you kidding? So I called John Klein. I was like, is this real? And he said, and I'm quoting, as God watches, He goes, it's just business.

[Rick Sanchez]

It's just business.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know why I'm telling this story. I've never told that story to anybody. But that was.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, that's a great story.

[Tucker Carlson]

So, John. No, but that's how the business works.

[Rick Sanchez]

Sounds a little like the Mafia.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, well, it totally is. And I'm sorry that I.

[Rick Sanchez]

It's just business now.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, you and I have had interesting 25 years. It's like, of course that's what happened. It doesn't bother me at all, but.

[Rick Sanchez]

And we're both better for it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I completely agree. And anyone who's shocked by that kind of stuff is. It is naive and I don't want to be nice. So. But so you. So I'm totally stepped all over your story because you triggered John Klein.

[Rick Sanchez]

Well, here, let me help you. So after the Biden administration decides that they think this entity, which they really don't even understand, but apparently they thought my show was too popular, and they didn't want me to be popular on a network other than the BBC or cn, and so they essentially shut it down, thereby shutting me down by penalty of imprisonment. And I was a little angry about it, so I went around and I started telling people about it all. Anybody who would listen, I would say, look, this is the situation I'm in, and it's very bothersome. And I got a lot of people, including the Society of Professional Journalists, who said, look, in a country like ours, the government doesn't get a chance to decide who are the winners and losers, who can report and who can do anything else. So they've invited me to actually speak at one of those forums, which I thought was cool. And then a very large newspaper here in the United States, in Washington, no less, decided they were going to run a story on this. And essentially they wrote a story that essentially says the headline of, you know, Rick Sanchez, former CNN reporter, challenging the Biden administration, hoping that the new Trump administration will change this law. And it was legitimate story telling, the story that I've been telling you that one day I was working and suddenly this was taken away from me, and it was unfair, perfectly legitimate story. And it was about to air or, pardon me, be published the very next day, and I get a phone call. Remember we talked earlier about a mysterious phone call?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Rick Sanchez]

Now, there's this young journalist, nice young man, worked hard on the story, smart kid. And he says, Mr. Sanchez, I'm so sorry to tell you this, but the story that was going to come out tomorrow, that you and I were both excited about it, it's been killed. Killed. They're not going to run the story. I said, why wouldn't they run the story? He said, well, because our managing editor, not my boss, his boss, apparently got a call last night from somebody, and they convinced him in that phone call that we should kill this story. And I said, can you give me more details? Do you know why? He goes, no, I don't even know who the person was who called him. And I don't usually work with my manager, with the guy at the Top. I usually work with my regular editor. I'm just a reporter, but I've never even heard of a phone call coming from the very top like that and canceling the story. So now not only did I get a mysterious call that led to me losing my job at rt, now my just trying to share my story with people, was being killed by another mysterious phone call.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it was a neocon publication, so I'm from dc, you're not. So I happen to know the publication very well. Well, and it's a neocon publication, and.

[Rick Sanchez]

We don't want to say it because.

[Tucker Carlson]

We'Re a young man I don't want to fire. It didn't happen to me, so I don't have the right to divulge it. But it's a publication in Washington, D.C. that is resolutely neocon. And they're like, no, this is contrary to the story that we're telling.

[Rick Sanchez]

So what you're telling me and what we're coming to realize in this conversation, you and I, is that the State Department, who I know, reached out to me when I was working at RT to kind of threaten or warn me not to work at rt, which is my choice, and was taken away from me also, then followed up by calling a American newspaper to tell them not to cover me or tell my story based on what they needed as well.

[Tucker Carlson]

Of course.

[Rick Sanchez]

This is crazy.

[Tucker Carlson]

It is crazy.

[Rick Sanchez]

This is crazy.

[Tucker Carlson]

And by the way, I don't know anything about the mechanics of what actually happened, but I can say that there is a conspiracy of temperament and worldview that is. Is not explicit. And I doubt it's even like a true conspiracy. And that I don't know if there's communication between the parties, but the people who work at the State Department, the people who work at the Washington Post, the people who work at every big News organization in D.C. and New York have the same worldview. And so they know that telling your story, explaining how your First Amendment rights as an American were violated by the US Government is contrary to their interests as cheerleaders of the war against Russia. Russia. It'll help Putin. So we can't say it right. It's like. I mean, that seems like deep.

[Rick Sanchez]

And all we want to do is engage. I mean, I am not here, you know, being a cheerleader for Russia or any other country.

[Tucker Carlson]

We are allowed to be. We're not at war with Russia, by the way. So we are, in fact, waging a war against Russia and have been hundreds of billions of dollars later, you know, more than A million people dead later, you know, we're losing, but. And it's all very sad, but the truth is we're not actually at war with Russia. Congress has not declared war Russia. So you've got every right to go to Russia, to take Russia's side, if you want. I mean, I don't think you are. You haven't been to Russia, and you're not taking Russia's side. But just to be clear, you have a right to do that, and it's an inalienable right.

[Rick Sanchez]

As a journalist, it's my responsibility to represent their point of view, of course, to put a microphone in front of them and say, what is your opinion of this situation? And then report back. But we're not allowed to do that. I'm being told you're not allowed to get that side of the story. And if you report that side of the story, we're going to put you in jail.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I do think that most journalists obey because they fear. Fear social sanction. They fear someone saying, you're a Putin puppet or whatever.

[Rick Sanchez]

Oh, I hate that.

[Tucker Carlson]

But in your case, you actually saw an administration try to apply the force of law, like, we'll put you in jail. So that's what I think is different about your story. It's not just like people are embarrassed to be seen as pro Russia. They were like, no, you violate the order and you're going to prison. That's a different level. No.

[Rick Sanchez]

And I'm challenging it as an American. First of all, just from a constitutional standpoint, I think I have a right to challenge it. And I've talked to enough people in the legal community who are helping me with this, who are saying, if you want to continue doing that, you have a right to petition to continue doing that in the United States. And now that the Trump administration is there, we're getting some friendly responses from people in the Trump administration who are saying, why is Rick Sanchez not allowed to work?

[Tucker Carlson]

I know.

[Rick Sanchez]

No, and I can't say definitively yet that the Trump administration will undo this, because, you know, things are moving and there's negotiations now with Russia. And I understand the Trump administration is trying to remove some of the silly sanctions that we have on them that are just ridiculous.

[Tucker Carlson]

But the reason it's so hard to do any of that is because of the leash that remains in place, which is the fear people have, good people, patriotic Americans have of being tied to Russia. So. So total has been the propaganda victory. You're connected to Putin. Putin's bad poll. 100Americans, 99. Will tell you Putin is evil, which he may be. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't know.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

More evil than, like, a lot of our allies. Probably not, but. But whatever. I'm not defending.

[Rick Sanchez]

He happens to be the president of a country and they have something to say and we should report it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. But, like, it's gotten to the point where that kind of lynch mob mentality is so entrenched in the United States that even to suggest that someone is close to this boogeyman is enough to shut it down.

[Rick Sanchez]

But here's what.

[Tucker Carlson]

And that's a leash. What they're doing is controlling your behavior.

[Rick Sanchez]

You're absolutely right. But even on a more pragmatic standpoint, I looked this up the other. The day I said, how much money did we spend to rebuild Europe after World War II? $140 billion in today's money. We've spent over 200 billion in Ukraine.

[Tucker Carlson]

To destroy Ukraine.

[Rick Sanchez]

To destroy Ukraine.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, that's the difference, right?

[Rick Sanchez]

Think about that. If you ask the average American, back then, we spent $140 billion to rebuild Europe after the Nazis destroyed it, was that okay? I think 99% of us would say, yeah, we needed to do that, and I'm glad we did it. If you went around America and you said $200 billion of your tax money has been spent in Ukraine, and then you said, can you find it on a map? What would you kill?

[Tucker Carlson]

And what could you do to Gary, Indiana, and Baltimore and Detroit and Minneapolis, like, with that money? In general, I think the destructive impulse is satanic. And I think it really is a dualism. Either you're creating or you're destroying. And if you look around and you're like, the outcome of all these different adventures is just purely destructive, I think you can say you're serving evil. I think it's honestly that God creates, Satan destroys. I'm sorry to get all heavy on you, but I think it's just very basic, isn't it?

[Rick Sanchez]

Not only that, but I think it's all about engagement. And I keep going back to this idea that I keep having, call me crazy, that my calling is sharing stories, and I want the right to be able to share stories. And my parents told me one day when they brought me to America from a communist country that this was a unique place where I would always be able to share any story. And I'm being told that I can't share stories. And if we don't engage with Russia, if we don't talk to Russia or any other country, for that matter, even Iran or whatever other countries out there that are supposed to be the boogeymen. If we don't engage with those countries, we're creating a path which is going to be so dangerous that we're not going to be able to come out from it. It. And that's my fear.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I mean that right from a geopolitical standpoint, we've really, really squandered American power to the point where we have less power than most Americans understand. And it's really scary. I want America to be powerful. I want us to be able to project power if we need to. I want us to be able to protect our interests. I want us to stay prosperous and free. And the degree to which we've like, kind of wrecked ourselves is not obvious to people. And it makes me want to cry when I think about it.

[Rick Sanchez]

And how is it that we can continue to convince, Convince Americans of these things that aren't true and have them buy it? Are they just too busy? Is the money too big? Is the.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's the power of propaganda. It's. It's how, you know, the State Department or your CNN former colleague calls you up, it's like, no, what the. Okay, the people in charge are terrible at building things. They've built nothing. Our country's collapsing. Our infrastructure is garbage. Our population is dying. Okay, that's just a fact. Yeah, I grieve over that. I want this country to be prosperous, free and happy. I want people, I want my kids to get married and be able to afford houses. I want them to have my grandchildren. I mean, these are like basic desires. The people running it have no ability to do any of that, to help with any of that, to actually help the population of the United States. All they can do is destroy. And how do they pull that off without, like, sparking a revolution, a much needed revolution in their country? They do it through propaganda. And I have been an instrument of that throughout my life. Unknowing a propaganda that lies to people in a way that's so aggressive and all encompassing. You don't know that it's dark because there's no light. You have nothing to compare it to. You have no idea. Your worldview is so controlled that you have no freaking idea what reality is.

[Rick Sanchez]

You know, I was just thinking something which is really interesting and that is comparable almost. I was thinking to myself, you had the number one show in the United States of America at the number one network, and somehow that was taken away from you. I happen to have a pretty Darn good show that was seen by also tens of millions of people, but mine didn't air in the United States. It aired around the world. Both of us seem to have that show kind of taken away from us one day. And I think, if I'm not going too far on the perch here, that it happened as a result of the same thing and was caused by probably the same people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Of course. I mean, of course I was so grateful, by the way, because I will always give FOX the credit. It deserves a lot of credit for being kind to me, which they always were, of not really getting in my business and of giving me all that freedom for so long. And I'm grateful to the Murdoch family for that. But, you know, clearly, foreign policy, neocon foreign policy is the red line. They don't care what your views on transgenderism are. Abortion or gun control or tax policy, all that stuff that we claim think is important, they don't think that's important.

[Rick Sanchez]

Go ahead and do that. Right?

[Tucker Carlson]

Go ahead and do that. Fight amongst yourselves.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, have a race war. You know, great. How about. How about, you know what? You should have a race war.

[Rick Sanchez]

Oh, that's so true.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, it's totally true. Have a race war. And they just don't care. What they do care about is the ability to keep the money flowing and, you know, the coffin's filling. Like, they love to kill and they love. They worship money and death. And that's just a fact. And I know them because I'm from there. So anyway, I came to this very slowly, just being involved in public policy debates my entire life. I realized, oh, the only thing they really care about is the foreign policy stuff. And so I get fired. And that was, like, totally inevitable. I knew that it was going to happen at some point. It was a shock that morning. But, like, not a shock. Big picture. And I'm. I was so grateful for it and have woken up happy every single day for two years because of that. So I'm not complaining in the.

[Rick Sanchez]

No, I know, but there's.

[Tucker Carlson]

But you're absolutely right. It's the same thing. That's the red line. There's so many fake red lines out there. Like, oh, you know, anyone who's like, the race stuff was like, most Americans do not hate each other because of race countries. Despite the best efforts of our leaders to get us to hate each other. Man, they have tried so hard.

[Rick Sanchez]

And most Americans don't want to hate Russia at all.

[Tucker Carlson]

Again, it's North Korea.

[Rick Sanchez]

It's like, you have to you don't.

[Tucker Carlson]

Even know what you don't know.

[Rick Sanchez]

Right?

[Tucker Carlson]

And I didn't even know until, like, I'm a huge believer in, like, just looking at stuff and, like, smelling stuff and, like, what's the obvious reality? You can tell me any story you want, but let me go see it. And that's why I've traveled so much. And it was just so clear when I went to Moscow. Like, I don't want to move there, Whatever. I'm not Russian. But, like, you've been lying to me about this in a really big way. And if you've lied to me about that, what else have you been lying to me about? Anyway, whatever.

[Rick Sanchez]

But we should. And I now feel compelled. And that's one of the reasons I'm telling this story. I don't need.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's an amazing story.

[Rick Sanchez]

I don't need to work because thank God I've done fine and you know him in a good place. But I want the opportunity to continue to help engage and tell the stories that bring us together as a people. Russia's story, the American story, can be one story. We can share our stories, we can disagree, we can hate each other, we can love each other, but this whole idea that we have to be like, this is just crazy and it's gonna lead to a bad thing.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it's just so.

[Rick Sanchez]

And Trump's instincts are correct on this. I hope he can fulfill them.

[Tucker Carlson]

And the real battle that has, you know, it's never changed for the last 2000 years between east and West, it's between worldviews. And you have the Christian west, and you've got the non Christian East. And the truth is, Russia is really part of the Christian West. And so anyone who's trying to make Russia into the main enemy of the United States is trying to divide and destroy the Christian West. That's just a fact.

[Rick Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I don't know why people don't say that. It took me a long time to figure it out, but it's just so obvious.

[Rick Sanchez]

I know. And isn't that funny? Like, Lamond, the BBC, all these people. I hear these people, my friends say, oh, yeah, trust American newspapers or American media. So I watch the BBC. I said, dude, it's the same damn thing. No, you need to watch maybe a little India or a little Russia or a little Brazil or just get different perspectives. You want to go to the global south country.

[Tucker Carlson]

So funny. Of course, Al Jazeera. I mean, just read. Watch it all, read it all.

[Rick Sanchez]

Disagree with them.

[Tucker Carlson]

The funny thing is that's such like the upper middle class, half wit lady with the beach novel thing to say day. I, you know, I really, I'm, I, I watch the BBC because it's just more.

[Rick Sanchez]

I don't trust cnn. I watch the BBC. It's the same damn thing.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've heard that so many times. Really, it's the, it's the BBC. It's like, oh my gosh, so true. I don't. Anyway, Rick Sanchez, it is wonderful to see you after all these years and thank you for your amazing story and thank you, thank you for your resilience through, you know, many different jobs.

[Rick Sanchez]

I do respect that you just keep on fighting.

[Tucker Carlson]

Amen.

[Rick Sanchez]

Amen. Dale, vamos.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thanks, man.

[Rick Sanchez]

My pleasure.

[Tucker Carlson]

We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it. Good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit, follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news things that actually matter. Telling the truth, always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching. Time for their true life ALP story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday. Honestly, true story. Who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over Alp. He wouldn't stop and I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad. Imagine if I'd married her. Now I know I was saved. Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice as speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. Cop takes his license, registration, goes back to patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window and sees a tin of Alp on the dashboard. Pauses, stunned, says to my friend, you use Alp? Yeah, I do, says my friend. So do I, says the cop. We all do. He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir, and hands back his license and registration. No ticket. So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like Alp and a speeding ticket. All true. It's more than a nicotine in an Astro. 350 million people are guessing there are about 350 million ALP stories.