← The Tucker Carlson Show
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ukraine Is Selling American Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels. Col. Daniel Davis on How to Stop It.
01:09:42
Loading summary
Transcript215 lines
- [00:01]
Tucker Carlson
This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling.
- [00:22]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Today, Trump gets elected not exclusively, but heavily on the promise. No more of these nonsense wars that are draining the treasury, getting Americans killed, making America weaker globally. There's no upside at all, particularly the war in Ukraine. Donald Trump says, I'm going to do that. I'm going to bring it to a close in like the first hours after becoming president. I think he says that. And the question to you, who actually knows the answer is, how do you do that?
- [00:44]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, well, how, how you bring the war to an end. This has been on the table since before the war started and Trump is going to have a much more difficult position now to bring that to fruition because of the horrific decisions made by the outgoing admin. This work could easily have been avoided before it happened. The Minsk agreements, I know a lot in the west like to say bad things about them, but the fact is that we now know Angela Merkel Hollande, France have both admitted that that was never supposed to be implemented. They just wanted to, quote, stop Russia's invasion of the Donbas area. That's what they said, that it was to buy them time, the Ukraine side time so that they could defend against it. It wasn't to implement. And you know, that's true because one of the central provisions that was agreed to by the Russians and the French and Germany and the Ukrainians was that the Ukrainians would change their constitution to have political autonomy and protections for the Russian speaking people in the east. That was one of the abso central figures features of that Minsk agreement in the.
- [02:08]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Belarus in the Minsk.
- [02:09]
Tucker Carlson
In the Minsk agreements. Yeah, in 2015. And it was never done ever. So the Ukraine side didn't implement the most important provision of it. They were also supposed to move back heavy weapons and all this kind of stuff, some of which happened and then both sides had minor incursions over the time with artillery that was going back and forth because the Russians are going, all right, we're not going to implement our part of this all fully until you get that central part. And so they just talked about it all this time and all we had to do is say, okay, Minsk Agreements had no NATO in it. There was no NATO For Ukraine inside there, it was just resolve this situation dressfully. It didn't. So it definitely didn't say that they were on the table. It didn't talk about it. So since 2008 that had been talked about by the west that they were going to come in. But the Minsk agreement would have ended all the conflict that was on the line of contact for essentially an eight year civil war before this one broke out. All they had to do was just implement those. And then now, then Russia has no need to intervene because the whole issue has always been protection of the rights of the Russian people and the ethnic Russians living in eastern Ukraine and the protection on their border not to have NATO in it. So if you get that off the table now, then there's plenty of room. But then by 2021, which very few Westerners are even aware of, is in March of 2021, Zelenskyy signs this law that says they're going to now take back all of the temporarily occupied areas, especially Crimea, which is a no go red line for the Russians and by force if necessary.
- [03:38]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
And then can you possibly describe why? And lots of Biden administration officials talked about taking back Crimea. You say it's a no go. It's not even worth discussing. Why is that? What is Crimea historically?
- [03:51]
Tucker Carlson
Crimea has, has, was in Russia too. I think it was. I can't remember the exact year that it was. It was given to Ukraine by, I want to say Nikita Khrushchev. I'm not wrong. So he gave that to them then. But it's historically, I mean, for centuries been Russian. The vast majority, Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine.
- [04:05]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
When Khrushchev controlled Ukraine.
- [04:07]
Tucker Carlson
Right.
- [04:07]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
When he was part of the Soviet Union.
- [04:09]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah. So it was just like, you know, moving things left and right within his controlling and holdings. But the people in it were still ethnic Russians primarily. And when they had this plebiscite, like 95% of the people voted to go into Russia. When after the, you know, the coup that happened that unseated the legally elected government in Ukraine that Victoria Nuland and all these other people supported, then Putin said, well, I'm certainly not going to have a NATO country around Sevastopol where I have my Black Sea fleet. So he said, we're going to annex this thing. The people voted for it. And that's what he claimed. Now you can disagree that that was legitimate, but that's how they voted.
- [04:47]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Does anyone argue that you, the Crimea, Crimeans, the residents of Crimea, if allowed to vote on it again, would vote to join Ukraine. Does anybody think that? Anyone argue that?
- [04:58]
Tucker Carlson
No, no one argues that because they know it wouldn't be. And life has improved for the. The Crimean population since Russia annexed it. It's gotten a lot better. And it's gotten even better since the 2022 invasion. Because they got water back is one of the big things there.
- [05:12]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah.
- [05:13]
Tucker Carlson
So none of them would ever want to go back into the Ukraine side.
- [05:16]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Because if you cared about democracy, you wouldn't try and steal Crimea from its people and give it to another government that they didn't want to join, Right?
- [05:23]
Tucker Carlson
No, especially if you care about people getting to make their own decisions, which we cling to in other parts of the world, that yes, the will of the people should rule. Unless, of course, it's somebody we don't like. Which goes back to the whole thing that happened in February 2021. I'm sorry, 2014, when we encouraged a coup. Encouraged a coup and then supported the overthrow of the legally elected government because we didn't like what they were doing and we helped the actual occup, the other people who were going against it. So everything that violated what we claim to believe we were supportive of at that time. And that's not democracy in any way, shape or form.
- [05:58]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
No, of course not, but.
- [06:01]
Tucker Carlson
So that's the problem that we could have ended this war by doing the Minsk agreements then in late 2021. And we know this for a fact because Jens Stoltenberg has admitted this stuff very publicly, that Putin said, hey, if we don't get a deal here, we're going to use force. Jens Stoltenberg said for sure. Yes.
- [06:19]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
And who is Stoltenberg?
- [06:21]
Tucker Carlson
He was the former Secretary General of NATO.
- [06:24]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Right.
- [06:24]
Tucker Carlson
And so he has led this, the NATO up until just very recently when Mark Ruda took over. But he said, yes, Putin told us that, but of course we didn't sign that. We're not going to agree with that because no one can tell us who's going to join NATO. So understand at that point we. And of course the United States was in complete agreement with this, that war could have been avoided by simply saying what we all knew. NATO is never going to accept Ukraine. There's no way we would ever do that. But instead of saying that, we said the opposite. They're going to come in. And so Putin says, then you've made my decision for me. I'm going to. We're going to take military action. Which he said on December 22, 2021, he said, we will take military specific measures if this continues on and it certainly, we know what happened on February 22nd. So we could have stopped the war from happening before and then two months in, we could have stopped it again. It is. The Istanbul people certainly know a lot about that. Putin mentioned that when you interviewed him about a year ago. I think Sergei Lavrov even mentioned it when you talked to him about that, too. They always say we're willing to talk. Everybody has said that way through shut.
- [07:26]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Down by Boris Johnson, former Prime Minister of Great Britain, acting on behalf of the Biden administration.
- [07:31]
Tucker Carlson
That is, that is, that is what we understand. And Johnson has almost never. He's kind of waffled with it, but he has said you can't talk to Putin. You can't have a negotiated settlement with him. So whether he actually did it all or was with Biden, we don't know, but we know for sure.
- [07:46]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
I tried to ask him directly and he demanded a million dollars for the interview. And I'm seeing him at the end of the month and I hope I'll be able to interview him then.
- [07:54]
Tucker Carlson
Wow. I'll be watching that one with.
- [07:56]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
I don't have a million dollars in my checking account right now to pay Boris Johnson.
- [08:01]
Tucker Carlson
But yeah, but what he has said makes it very clear that that was his position. No, no matter who it was, though that did happen. So just think about it. How many Ukrainians, allegedly around a million are dead and, and probably double that or maybe even triple that. Wounded. It's a staggering number. None of them should have died. All we had to do is just say what we already know. NATO's never going to invite you Ukraine in and the war would have been avoided. Absolutely. There's. Because then there's no reason for Russia to ever have invaded in the first place.
- [08:33]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Right.
- [08:33]
Tucker Carlson
Just like if, if Russia was talking about, I mean, I'm hypothetically here wanting to have missiles, say on Cuba or. So we had a negotiation. If they had kept the missiles there, we probably would have gone to war. But we had a negotiation and they moved them off. So if we had said no NATO coming into Ukraine at that time, then Russia had no need to do anything and they also would have backed off because it's in their interest to do so. But we didn't. So when we're talking about now, when we say no, we democracy and this unprovoked aggression, which we know wasn't true because we've admitted that it wasn't true now, then we have what we have here. And so all of these opportunities. And by the way, there was one More in November. This is one of the worst ones, in my view. In November of 2022, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley said, hey, by the way, if you want to negotiate a settlement, now is the time to do it. Because remember, that was the one year where there were two big successes for the Ukraine army. They drove Russia out of Kherson City, and they drove him out of a huge swath of Kharkiv area in the north. Yes, at that time, Russia was at its weakest point. They had force mobilized, 300,000 people. They were scrambling just to get uniforms in a much less trained, etc. To stop the gap, to stop the bleeding up there. And the Ukraine side had every advantage. And Mark Milley publicly said, if you want to negotiate a settlement, now would be a good time. Russia's at its weakest, Ukraine's at its strongest. He goes, I'm just saying, if you wanted it, now's the time. He knew that they did. He knew that Russia, as bad as it had been battered, was still Russia. They still had all the natural resources that they could ever need. They had the military industrial capacity, which was already starting to gin up, and they had the manpower, the population, exactly everything that you need. And the mentality, because they view this as an existential fight. It's not like Vietnam was for us. This is on their front door, and it is an existential fight. So they will recover. And he knew that. And so if you want to negotiate from a position of strength, which he said merely at the time, now is the time. But no, we didn't. Zelinsky was now, I think, drunk with power, because he's like, we beat them here, we'll keep beating them. But militarily, Tucker, this is one of the things so important, militarily. It was evident at the time that Ukraine couldn't win because Russia then they had. They withdrew from Kherson City. And it was talked about humiliation for Russia at the time. But militarily, that was the wisest decision they could have made because it would have been hard to hold on to Kherson City because of the river behind them. So they moved 40,000 guys across the river, blew all the bridges so that now Ukraine can't follow that up. And so they preserved all of that manpower and all of the experience that they had, and then they ended up using them elsewhere to build a fortified defensive series of about five different periods. And Russia was really good at defensives. So there was every reason to think.
- [11:20]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
They'Ve had some practice.
- [11:21]
Tucker Carlson
They have had practice. And even when I was serving during the Cold War, we studied the Russian tactics and we knew how hard it would be. I was in an armor unit, so I knew how hard it would be to try to do an offensive against a dug in Russian defensive line. And so when I heard in 2023 that the Ukraine was going to have this big combined arms operation going into the Russian lines, I said, there's no way that they're going to do that. I've conducted operations like that before in Desert storm with Doug McGregor and an armored Cav regiment. I knew what it was like to go into prepared enemy defenses and that was against a not very good unit. But to go against the Russians when they had six months to prepare was suicide. Our leaders should have recognized that, Our Secretary of Defense should have recognized that. But instead they said, no, we're going to succeed. We've trained them up, we've given them all these thousands of military vehicles, millions of rounds of ammunition, training, intelligence support. You know, I think it was high Mars at that time that we'd given them already Stingers, all kinds of stuff. And I said, look, and I wrote about this ahead of time, so this is not revisionist history. I wrote ahead of time this will fail. And here's why. You have no air force, effectively, there's no Ukrainian air force. You don't have enough air defense and you don't have enough engineering support to penetrate these minefields. And the most important one is you don't have the trained manpower. It doesn't matter how many people they mobilize. I know from armored Cav how hard it is to maneuver in coordinated fashion across a broad front. It's extremely difficult. And they had this much experience in doing that. And you can't train that up in a two or three months. It just can't be done. Our leaders should have known that, but instead they encouraged it. And then you had, I'll never forget this one. David Petraeus at the end of May 2023 went on the BBC and said, I think that, that the Ukraine side is going to do this combined durance operation. And he listed all the reasons why they're going to and the tanks and the Bradleys and all this stuff. I think that they're going to penetrate the Russian lines. The defensive lines will crumble, crack and maybe even collapse. And they'll go to the Azov coast. That's what he said on the eve of this thing. And of course it worked out the way any rational analysis would have said was a Complete disaster. It never even penetrated the of defense. So all of 2023 went to a predictable failure. And so now then that was the next chance we had to end the suffering and say.
- [13:40]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
May I just ask. You're describing the war as really a war between the United States and Russia. You're saying that these are decisions that our military leadership made or should have made, is that.
- [13:53]
Tucker Carlson
That is what I'm saying. Because the Ukrainian leadership and military, they don't have the. The historical experience to it that only existed for 30 years.
- [14:01]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Right.
- [14:01]
Tucker Carlson
We've got all of this stuff going all the way back II World War I. I mean, we've had all kind of institutional knowledge and without us, nothing happens. Doesn't matter what Ukraine wants to do. Without our willingness to give the information, the ammunition, the weapon systems, all of it, and to apparently help with some of the plans, they can't do anything.
- [14:20]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Okay. So I just don't think, I mean, thank you. Everything you're saying makes sense. I think it's obvious once you think about it. But too few do think about it. And I think a lot of people have been lulled into this idea that there's this valiant. Yeah, they may be valiant, but you know, Ukrainian military that's fighting this war against a foreign aggressor, Russia, and sort of leaving out the key point, which is that the strategy and the munitions come from the United States. So this is a failure on the part of our military leadership as well.
- [14:48]
Tucker Carlson
100%.
- [14:49]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Thank you.
- [14:49]
Tucker Carlson
It's avoided. It was such an avoidable situation. We knew better.
- [14:53]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So when Ukraine loses, you can look at the Pentagon and say, nice job, guys.
- [14:56]
Tucker Carlson
Yet again, that is exactly what I say and very quantifiable reasons why that is. Though I will say it's not exclusively us because Zelenskyy deserves specific arguments and criticism because he continued to take these operations and actions. However much who actually made the decisions is unclear. But he actually has a lot of the say over what they did, especially over how they employ them. And so he sent his troops to do operations that really had no chance of success. And especially. And he deserves. People claim that he's like this modern day Winston Churchill kind of thing, right? I mean he got all this publicity in the first. Well, Winston Churchill made some huge mistakes in early in his career.
- [15:41]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
And because of that I was just thinking about Gallipoli.
- [15:44]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, exactly.
- [15:45]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah, he had his Gallipoli Churchill. Right?
- [15:48]
Tucker Carlson
Well, he was back then. Yeah, he's that version of Churchill. Good point. But he learned from those mistakes and so he Did a bunch of things right in Second World War because he learned from his mistakes in most parts. Italy is a separate issue that wasn't so. But it. But. But he eventually did help with that. Will Zielinski doesn't have any of that experience at. And so he fought in this place called Severodonetsk, Lysychansk and even Mariupol early in the war. And in every case he stayed too long. So when his forces started, when it was clear that the Russian forces had moved in and into the outskirts of the city, they should have withdrawn to the next defensive line. They should have been building subsequent defensive lines, knowing that the Russians were going to eventually get there. Make it as expensive as you can on every. Go back, and then you'll have like, all right, well, back here we're not going to allow penetration or we have to bring the war to an end. But instead he just stayed there and almost like Hitler in the end of World War II, not one inch. So instead of pulling his forces back, he kept them in there and they were methodically destroyed. Now then you have to have new guys for the Knicks City, and then they're destroyed. And you see what happens, Tucker, is that you destroy the ability to have a coherent offensive or defensive because the guys who know how to fight, who've learned, die. So now then you have to bring in new guys and it's starting from scratch again. Bakhmut was the worst because they lost probably 10,000 people to defend a city that gave them no value. They should have moved back to another area because here's the key. So, like Bakhmut is here and it's tough to move into. But if you had moved back here, where there's a lot of open land and to the next defensive position, which high ground, then it would cost the Russians a lot more to move across this territory. And they could have defended themselves better, but instead they stayed there. Then they lost thousands of men. Avdiivka the same thing. They keep repeating the same mistake over and over. They've done it now in Toretsk, in Chasivyar, and they're doing the same thing. Head up on Pokrovsk in the area down there. Let's see, the one in the south there in the. Not the Kupiansk area. The one in the south was one of the worst too, because the Ukraine side held out in that town for a year and a half in Vuhledar. But then the Russians learned a lot. And so now that instead of going head on, they start flanking it. And it becomes evident you're going to lose it. But again, they would not give the order to receive. So they keep losing thousands upon thousands of trained people. So now then they're talking about lowering the age to 18 so that they can bring more people in.
- [18:11]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
They're talking about. Actually, our incoming National Security advisor is talking about it on television, whom I like. So I'm not, you know, it's not a personal attack. But here, US policymakers have completely destroyed Ukraine. They pushed this where they started this war. I think it's very obvious that that's what happened. You just described how. And you know, Ukraine has been devastated. They, the Ukrainian parliament made it legal for outsiders, non citizens to buy their land. So they're going to lose their country physically. And a whole generation's been destroyed. And now US policymakers are saying it's your fault. You need to lower conscription age to 18. I mean, I don't. Just as a Christian, I'm infuriated and repelled by that. Like, what is that?
- [18:52]
Tucker Carlson
I think it's one of the most.
- [18:53]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Disgusting things I've ever heard.
- [18:54]
Tucker Carlson
I'll tell you what I hope is really at play here.
- [18:57]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
No, I know what you're gonna say. What, that this is tactical. This is like trying to strike a tough pose to put the incoming administration in a better spot for negotiations.
- [19:06]
Tucker Carlson
No, I think that, I think, I think that it is the incoming administrations to put Zelensky in a position.
- [19:12]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah.
- [19:13]
Tucker Carlson
Let's just say, look, if you want to do this, you have to go and put these people in here, but you can't because it's so, it's. This has been been talked about for probably close to a year in, in Ukraine keeps getting pushed back for the reasons that you just eliminated there. Why would you take another generation and sacrifice them for nothing? And so it's, it's a. People are violently against that. Well, so he's putting him in a position, I think, I hope. No, you're right, but so that Zelenskyy will realize then, now you have to have a negotiation.
- [19:42]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
How about we don't talk that way because it's repulsive.
- [19:45]
Tucker Carlson
Okay, I agree with you. I agree with you. It is anguishing for me to hear. Even if it is a negotiating position, I hope it works. If that gets the war over, then okay. But I fear that they may say.
- [19:57]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Okay, why don't you say, look, I mean, why even include the Ukrainian leadership in these conversations? I don't understand. I mean, I do think we should apologize for what the Biden administration just did to Ukraine. I think that is our fault or their fault. But I don't know why going forward, you would even. Why would you have Zelensky, the, you know, Mr. Play the piano with his dick guy? What does he have to. No, I'm serious. Like, why? He's unelected. He's not the democratically elected leader of Ukraine. There has been no he. His term expired. He has no moral right to run that country.
- [20:29]
Tucker Carlson
Well, see, then there's more truth to that than a lot of people might realize, because Putin last month reiterated that point. It's a fact. We're willing to talk, but we can't sign any deal with Zelensky because he's not a legitimate leader. He went to the president of the country. He's not legally the president of the country. That's right. So he said, until somebody gets in there, then we can sign a deal, but we can talk to the United States right now. And so I think Trump's coming in. Trump's not going to be tied to what Zelensky does. Like Biden apparently was. I mean, I don't. I can't imagine he's going to. Yeah, because we call all the cards and Russia says, yes, America has to. I think Sergey Lavrov in the, in the interview you had with him said the same thing. We'll talk. We're open to talk with, with the Trump administration. We're willing to do that. And the Biden administration could have done it at any point, and they refused to do it. And. And now we have the wreckage that we have.
- [21:20]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah, we do. Shadowy online tech figures are buying and selling and spying on your personal information. There are plenty of privacy services out there that help prevent your data from getting stolen. But how do you get your privacy back when it's already been taken? And that's where ExpressVPN comes in. Not only protect your online activity going forward, preventing anyone from seeing what you're doing, they can also remove your information from the third parties who snatched it from you. ExpressVPN is the best. We spent a lot of time looking into this company. We use it on our show every day. And it's added three new features. It's clearly the most effective VPN on the market. It's got data removal, ID alerts, ID theft insurance. ExpressVPN scours data broker sites and asks for your information's removal. It monitors the dark web. It tells you when anyone uses your Social Security number, which can happen. And it reimburses you up to $1 million for reclamation expenses if someone steals your identity, which actually happens. So these features push VPN over the edge from nice to have it to. You should have it. You really need to have it. Get started with ExpressVPN 4 free extra months expressvpn.com tucker or click on the link in the description or scan the QR code right here.
- [22:33]
C
Tucker says it best. The credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough. This is Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. Our legislation, the Credit Card Compensation act, would help end the Grip Visa and MasterCard have on us. Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee. And they've been raising it without even telling you. This hurts consumers and every small business owner. In fact, American families are paying $1,100 in hidden swipe fees each year. The Fees Visa and MasterCard charge Americans are the highest in the world. Double Canada's and eight times more than Europe's. That's why I've taken action. But I need your help to help get this passed. I'm asking you to call your senator today and demand they pass the Credit Card Competition act.
- [23:25]
Tucker Carlson
Paid for by the Merchants Payments Coalition, not authorized by any candidate or Candidates Committee.
- [23:30]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Www.merrestancespaymentscoalition.com Don Junior here, guys. Are you receiving letters from the IRS.
- [23:36]
Tucker Carlson
Claiming you owe back taxes as penalties and interest fees pile up? The IRS gives you no clear path to resolution. Don't speak to them on your own. They are not your friends. To reach a team of licensed tax professionals that can help you reduce, settle and resolve your tax matters, go to tnusa.com and check them out. Solve your tax problems today. Call 1-800-780-8888 or visit tnusa.com that's 1-800-780-888.
- [24:03]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So I'm, I'm sorry I keep pulling you into just trying to tell a story and answer the question. I keep, you know, going into cul de sacs as usual. But back to how this can be settled. So you just described why it's a very tough position for the incoming president. How do you, how do you end this?
- [24:22]
Tucker Carlson
Well, and I didn't describe the worst part of it yet because of everything we have done and by the way we set as an objective Biden did on the first day of the war in his speech to the United States and the Secretary of Defense, Austin did so in April, was to weaken Russia. That's what we said. Ukraine must prevail. Russia must Fail. I think that was the exact phrase that Biden used. And Austin said that we have to weaken Russia. That was our objective.
- [24:50]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Instead, why would we want to weaken Russia?
- [24:53]
Tucker Carlson
Just to make it impossible for them.
- [24:55]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
To secure their nuclear arsenal and to make sure that, like, some violent Muslim separatist group takes control of parts of the country. Like what? I don't.
- [25:01]
Tucker Carlson
Because we don't like them. Just because we don't like Russia. There's too many people in power still today in Washington that grew up in the Cold War and were mourning the loss of the Soviet Union and the enemy.
- [25:13]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
We should have ended NATO like Muammar Gaddafi. But has Libya improved since he was murdered?
- [25:18]
Tucker Carlson
Oh, Lord.
- [25:19]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah, they have slave markets in Tripoli. So how's that a win for anyone? Like what? Who's. Who are these people? Like how people that stupid be in charge of anything?
- [25:28]
Tucker Carlson
Because they replicate themselves. They're the ones that are in charge. And so they don't let anybody else rise up, even to the lower and the mid levels, unless they give in to the way people think they're. If you're not like me, forget it. If you're talking about doing something that makes sense, that doesn't mean more war, you're going to get rid of. Look at Tulsi Gabbard. They are terrified of having somebody of her quality in that position at D and I, because they know she'll actually tell the truth. She'll actually faithfully tell what the intelligence is as opposed to just slanting it so that the President gets wrong information or slanted information that makes him think, yeah, you should go and use more military forces, whatever it is. So that's why these people are still in power today. But, yeah, you're right. There was no reason to want to weaken Russia. We should have wanted to end the war. And if we cared about the Ukrainian people, that's what we would have done. We would have prevented it or at least ended it when it came in. But instead we wanted to weaken Russia. So why not keep the war going? Because the Ukrainian people are willing to do it. Zelensky is willing to keep them going in there, even though any rational explanation could have shown the opposite. Okay, so we achieved the opposite. Russia is now much stronger than it was in February 2022. The Ukraine side is much weaker than it was. We're much weaker than we were. Just imagine, just fundamentally, how many thousands of armored vehicles have we sent to the Ukraine side? How many interceptor missiles have we sent? Almost all of our ATACMS missiles have been sent To Ukraine. We don't even have a handful left. What if we get into a war with somebody, God forbid it should be China or North Korea or, you know, even more God forbid if it should be Russia. What if we have to defend ourselves? We have now just eaten into our capacity to even wage war. And now then you have, the Russian side has gone to the opposite side because they have now mobilized their industry, they've now expanded their army by 50% from where it started. They do have a lot of people that have gotten experience in this army and lived. And so now then their institution is growing even more capable. So that's why this is so hard for Trump, because Putin is coming in saying he's willing to talk, he's willing to have negotiations, but he set some pretty high standards. I think when you talked to Putin in February of last year, when you asked him what his terms were, he kind of went back, he said, well, we've already talked about this at Istanbul, so maybe something like that. Well, because we didn't take it. And then we allowed long range weapons to be used by Americans into to Russia. Putin said that deal's now off the table. Now on June 14, he listed a new set of deal which is all for the oblast, all of it, even the territory that Ukraine still owns. So now it's not going to be that deal before because that would have been just the Donbas area, just the Luhansk and Donetsk. Now it's going to be bigger. But then Biden didn't accept that either. And so now then, with all the price that Russia has paid there and the strength, they don't have to negotiate. This is so important to understand. Ukraine has to negotiate to survive. We have to negotiate to get the war over. Putin doesn't. If he doesn't get the deal he wants, he'll just keep rolling until he does. And I believe that the likelihood is that they would take all the way up to the Dnieper river, even if it took another six, nine months of fighting. I don't see any way that they're going to stop fighting here. And they've said so. They've said we're not. Lavrov about three weeks ago said no kind of ceasefire. We're not going to do a pause because that would just help the other side there. We're going to keep fighting and we'll negotiate, we'll talk, but we're not going to stop fighting. So there's no ceasefire that's going to be involved because that would ride so to the river, which is a considerable distance from where they are. Yeah, but see, here's the.
- [29:09]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
It's. How far does that put them from the capital city?
- [29:12]
Tucker Carlson
Well, the NEPR goes into Kiev.
- [29:14]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
I'm aware. That's why I'm asking that.
- [29:16]
Tucker Carlson
So I think that the likelihood is that Odessa and Kharkiv cities are probably not going to remain on the western side if Trump doesn't come in and give Putin everything he wants on the first day. And I perceive, and I certainly don't know this, no, I haven't talked to Putin, so I don't know, but I perceive that he's set these lines here on the 14th of June, lines which were all of those four oblasts because there's large swaths that Ukraine still owns. It would be so hard, maybe even impossible politically, domestically, for Trump to, to give away areas that Ukraine hasn't lost in the war and agree to that. And so if Putin, if Trump, you know, with the Kellogg plan or whatever, they try to say they want NATO put off or, you know, they want the current line of contact to be the, the dividing line, then Russia will just say, okay, we tried to negotiate with you, we didn't. And they'll just keep going until they get to the Dnieper river because we can't stop them. If Trump says, okay, well, I'm going to get tough and I'll give more stuff to you than Biden did. Well, first, we don't have it. But second, it doesn't matter because they don't have the manpower.
- [30:24]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
We literally don't have it.
- [30:26]
Tucker Carlson
We don't. And Tucker, if Trump said, all right, well, I'm going to go in big. I'm going to take the 1st Armored Division, 1st Infantry Division, 1st Cav Division, all of that equipment, the whole set, and just give it powerful divisions that we have there and just hand it to the Ukraine's. They don't have the manpower to use it. They would still lose just as much.
- [30:43]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
But then you also have a problem, which is this. Donald Trump just ran for office on the promise, no more counterproductive wars. And so if his first act as president in office is to arm Ukraine, I don't see how that works. Honestly.
- [31:04]
Tucker Carlson
I can see where he would have that temptation. And I know that he's going to have that suggestion from many of his supporters. I've been reading about him already because I say we got to show him he's tough.
- [31:15]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Well, not his supporters, his, the, the, you know, the neocons in Washington.
- [31:19]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, fair point. Yes.
- [31:21]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Exactly what I mean, voters are for that, like, right around probably.
- [31:24]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, yeah, They're. They're definitely not, because they know they can see what we're talking about here. It's. It's nothing but a losing prospect. Why pay more to lose?
- [31:32]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So why is it our. How do we get involved in this?
- [31:35]
Tucker Carlson
Because the two guys get in a.
- [31:37]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Fight down the street, and I, like, bankrupt my family and put their lives at risk to, like, what.
- [31:41]
Tucker Carlson
That. That is exactly what we're talking about here. And it's much worse because that. And also we're bankrupting ourselves while we're enabling that family to die even more.
- [31:49]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Exactly.
- [31:50]
Tucker Carlson
More of them. So it's immoral and irrational in my view. So. But. But here's the problem that Trump's political enemies here, and I've already seen it, Biden is absolutely set this up. He just said last week that I have created all this great situation here where my. Our enemies are weaker and our friends are stronger, and I'm handing this over to Trump. You had Secretary Blinken say, you know what we have.
- [32:13]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Secretary Blinken's a criminal, by the way. And if he retains his security clearance after January 20th, I'm going to every single day raise the alarm. I mean, there's no way that Tony Blinken should have a security clearance after Trump is inaugurated. But I know he's going to. It's super simple. Just pull Tony Blinken security code. Tony Blinken is a. You know, I think was running the US Government, hurting this country more than maybe any other single person in the. In my lifetime. And that man deserves to be held to account for what he did.
- [32:44]
Tucker Carlson
100% agree. And his exit interview showed why. He actually told that interviewer last week that we have put Ukraine in a stronger position militarily, economically, and domestically.
- [32:57]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Are you serious?
- [32:58]
Tucker Carlson
Oh, yeah. He says straight up. And we had them on a sustained path to continue improving. And then he said, but if Trump comes in and they negotiate an end, that's up to them.
- [33:07]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Those are lies.
- [33:07]
Tucker Carlson
He's a liar 100%.
- [33:09]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
And I know because I travel a lot. And last weekend, I had a meeting in a ski resort in the Alps, which is probably the most expensive town in the world. I was not there to ski, for the record, but the whole town is Ukrainian. All the visitors are Ukrainian, and they're rolling into her maze and dropping a million dollars in an afternoon. So it's all through Europe. You see this? The richest people are the Ukrainians. That money is ours. It belongs to me and you. And every Other American taxpayer. That's where it's going. Second fact. Fact, not guess. Fact is Ukrainian military is selling a huge percentage, up to half of the arms that we send them. Half. And I'm not guessing about this. I know that for a fact. A fact. Okay? Not speculation. And they're selling it. And a lot of us winding up with the drug cartels on our border. So this is the. This, this is a crime. What's happening? Our intel agencies are fully aware of this. You tell me they're not profiting from this. Of course. You think CIA is not profiting from this. Yes, they are. I can't prove that, but I believe that. What? They don't know this. I know this, but they don't know this. They know this. And no one is saying it like no American seems aware of this. We're sending these arms to Ukraine. Billions of hundreds of billions of dollars, and it's being stolen and sold to our actual enemies. Like, what the. I'm trying not to swear. What is this?
- [34:22]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, well, the reason why is because you have Zelensky, it was about three weeks ago, I think, was specifically asked this question. So he went at some length in one of his interviews to say, oh no, absolutely not. There's no truth to that at all. We've implemented all this. I know that, but the media just reported what he said.
- [34:38]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
The New York Times could get on the web and order Ukrainian weapons. That's a fact. I'm not guessing. It's a fact. They could do that today. Everyone who wants to know what's going on knows. And yet they're telling me, oh, 70,000 Ukrainians have died. 70,000. Really think that's the number? Everything about this is a lie. And Tony Blinken, of course, cuz he's running the US government knows that it's all a lie. And so for him to say that out loud is evil. Like that's truly deceptive.
- [35:04]
Tucker Carlson
I think, oh, 100% it is, because it is in a direct contradiction to reality.
- [35:10]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
On the ground, they're selling weapons to the drug cartels. Are you kidding? This is a nightmare. I don't understand. Why is nobody reporting? How come I know that?
- [35:19]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, that's. That's one of the things.
- [35:21]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So the New York Times doesn't know that?
- [35:23]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah. You haven't seen that report? Yeah, yeah. I mean, how could they not? I mean, this stuff is all over the place. And this has been an open secret for almost the duration of this.
- [35:30]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yes.
- [35:31]
Tucker Carlson
And sometimes they put a little caveat headline and then move on to whatever's next. And they don't. No one says the implication of, wait, this stuff could come back to bite us on our own border.
- [35:39]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Well, yeah, we saw that. We saw that in the 80s with the Mahjuddin, of course. How are you gonna have commercial air travel around the world, by the way, if their missile systems, you know, handheld. You know, you can shoot down a commercial airliner pretty easily with a lot of this stuff. That's what it's designed to do. And if it's in the hands of separatist groups, terror groups, drug cartels, which it is now, how do you have a civilization? How do you have global air travel? I don't get it.
- [36:03]
Tucker Carlson
Well, yeah, I mean, I pray that remains a potential. And not something that actually gets manifest, but it's out of our hands, and that's the problem.
- [36:11]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
But how can you send hundreds of billions of dollars of aid and weapons to a country and then not keep track of what happens to it?
- [36:19]
Tucker Carlson
I can only speculate that they just don't care about that. If it ends up. If some of it ends up hurting Russia, then cool.
- [36:26]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
And I think that's terror attacks inside Russia. A lot of them.
- [36:29]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah.
- [36:30]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So since when does the US Government sponsor terror attacks? Like this is our government.
- [36:34]
Tucker Carlson
Well, of course. We just put a different tag on it. Well, no, we're just helping the Ukrainian side fight its war against the Russians.
- [36:40]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Assassinating people.
- [36:41]
Tucker Carlson
That's. That's. Yeah. I mean, and as I think you've talked about before, Dugan's daughter, who was.
- [36:47]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
A lot of other people.
- [36:48]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, certainly. Yeah. General, not again.
- [36:50]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Not speculating months at all. I know firsthand. So, anyway, sorry to get upset. It's that the blinking stuff is like. It's beyond.
- [37:01]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah. And then Austin did the same thing about six days ago, to be specific, where he says, we have given Ukraine everything we can. And we still. He's saying this still at this point. We can't let Ukraine lose that liar.
- [37:14]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
That liar.
- [37:15]
Tucker Carlson
The war is already lost. Past tense. There is no possibility to even maintain anything. For him to say that to get. Is to continue the fiction that they have. So that. And here's why I think all this is happening, so that when Trump comes in and whatever he ends up negotiating, it's Trump's fault. We had Ukraine set up. We were doing everything we could, and then Trump comes in and hands it back to Putin. That's why I think it's going to be so hard for. For Trump to do what makes sense and what's rational. Because he's going to come under withering attack from the political left. I mean, it's just going to happen.
- [37:46]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
I think, you know, you're effective. You can exercise power, or to the extent that you're willing to exercise that power, and to the extent that you're willing to ignore, you know, your faithless critics, like, who actually cares what they say? Who cares? Did you know what I mean?
- [38:03]
Tucker Carlson
And that's what I hope Trump does. I hope he says, yeah, y'all are the ones that set all the stage for this. I hope he's clarified on what he.
- [38:10]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Said in Eastern Europe. Like, shut up. Yeah, who cares?
- [38:14]
Tucker Carlson
A million people. We're talking World War I. We lost in World War I and World War II combined. About a half a million people.
- [38:22]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah, exactly.
- [38:23]
Tucker Carlson
That is two world wars, and they have doubled that in all probability. And now, then, we're not even talking about how many have lost limbs, how many have severe PTSD that will take the rest of their lives to recover. They've lost generations of people. I think, like, 22 million people have fled the country. That's what we produced, Tucker. That's what we built. And that's how prideful it is for America to say what we generated.
- [38:46]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
That is why I was so distressed when I heard the incoming National Security Advisor, who I really like personally, I think he's a good man, actually. But use the term democracy to describe what's happening in Ukraine or our motives in Ukraine. I mean, that is so dishonest. That is so false. I don't know, maybe he believes it, but that is just not true. And I don't think there's any evidence that it's true at all. The opposite is true. It's a tyranny that's banned forms of Christianity. Yes. Yeah.
- [39:13]
Tucker Carlson
Political opponents, the. Any opposition media, everything.
- [39:18]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Just jailed all these murdering, murdering people. A lot of people, too. Again, not guessing. So, okay, sorry. My ransom. Okay, so what should. Thank you for being patient. What's. So, given everything you've described, what should the incoming administration do?
- [39:33]
Tucker Carlson
I think that Trump should come in and try to get this resolved as fast as possible and rationally understand that the June 15 line that Putin laid out is the best that he can possibly get. And just. And he's going to have to put a good face on. He can't just come in and literally say, okay, whatever you want is fine. We'll just sign here. But there are some other. There's some leverage we can do elsewhere. That's like, hey, look, we can even remove Some of these sanctions on Russia, as long as we get this in return for it, you know, some increase, some security guarantees that Russia's not going to do anything beyond this, etc. Which is going to be hard because they have the capacity, should they want to go further than the Dnieper River. But I think that he should just say, hey, this is the best we're going to get right here. I'm going to end this war as soon as we can on these lines right here, because all we're going to do is get more Ukrainians killed if we keep delaying this. So we're going to get this done here. We're going to start the process of letting the Ukraine side recover and just help them rebuild. Europe needs to handle the lion's share of that, not the United States. But we can help diplomacy, you know, build that with diplomacy, especially the Eastern Europeans, let them build up their own national security, defense, get bigger on there. Not the United States, not put more money in NATO, but the Europeans need to handle that. That's one of the big things here. And then the other thing is, we just have to acknowledge this is where the lines are going to be, because that's already a reality on the ground. If you get that over with now, then we can start the next hard thing, which is rebuild relations with Russia going forward. And I know many don't want to do that, but Russia is going to exist perpetual into the future.
- [41:09]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Why are we supposed to hate Russia exactly?
- [41:12]
Tucker Carlson
Because these people can't escape the Cold War that we won in 1990.
- [41:16]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Why, as long as Bill Kristol is chirping his vile little lies in your head, you're never going to get anything done. Why don't you just ignore them? Russia should not be our enemy. They should not.
- [41:27]
Tucker Carlson
And you showed that so graphically, what with both the Lavrov and the Putin interviews. They're very reasonable. They're not doing things that are. They're not asking us to.
- [41:35]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
It's a civilized country. And now it's aligned with China in a larger, much larger military and economic block than NATO. So, by the way, we just destroyed the European economy by blowing up Nord Stream. No one's ever been held accountable for that. I don't know how the Europeans are going to pay for Ukraine reconstruction when we wreck their economy by blowing up their natural gas pipeline, but whatever you don't want. We have lost our preeminence because of this. And now Russia is aligned with China. Like that's, you know, big picture.
- [42:06]
Tucker Carlson
That's China.
- [42:06]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
That's the headline.
- [42:07]
Tucker Carlson
An actual military alliance with North Korea.
- [42:09]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Oh, yeah, and the.
- [42:10]
Tucker Carlson
The cooperation with Iran as well. All those things. And the BRICs, like you say, that is the wreckage of this outgoing administration. That's what they have produced. None of those things existed prior to October 22nd, when we started. Started making Russia weaker. We have made them stronger in every capacity.
- [42:26]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
If you stayed in the United States for the past four years, you didn't leave and you didn't read any non American, non US Media. You had have no idea, no clue. Right. No idea that any of this happened. You would think that it was 1997 and this was, you know, we had a unipolar world and we're in charge of everything. The blue passport's a big deal. And all this stuff, you'd have no idea. And that freaks me out.
- [42:46]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah.
- [42:46]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
People don't know. They should know. If they did know, I mean, you know, they'd be upset at the damage, pointless damage done to these people.
- [42:53]
Tucker Carlson
These could be upset. And I hope that's. That's why I'm so grateful for your show here that you separated from the mainstream media, because now then you're putting it to millions of people. They get this information that they aren't getting in any of these.
- [43:03]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Well, I love America. I live here. I am American. My ancestors came here a long time ago, and they're all buried here. I'm not going anywhere. I love the United States. And so to see a bunch of people who have no interest in the United States whatsoever destroy it, it's like, it drives me crazy. I don't know why. I don't know. Yeah, that's my only motive. Oh, you love Putin. Oh, Putin.
- [43:24]
Tucker Carlson
Right, right. There's no reason to antagonize a nuclear superpower when they're happy to just cooperate with us and actually help us in the. The Western European countries with cheap energy so that they can develop their economies. Why do you want to harm that?
- [43:39]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Well, it's also, like, it's a Christian country, and so why wouldn't. Why wouldn't we be allies with them? Why would we drive them into a permanent alliance? I mean, Lavrov told me it's a permanent alliance with China. Game over. Game. Look. Look at a map. Get a map someday and, like, look at it. You know, you want to move Russia west, and it's, of course, it's not a fully Western country, and the Mongols invaded it. It's like a complicated country, but it is, in some deep sense, Western because it's Christian, mostly Christian. So why wouldn't they be on our side? Because certain people in the US Government hate that idea. And they hate Russia because it is Christian. They loved it when it was atheist. They loved it. They defended it. Their ancestors, you know, were agents for it. You know what I mean? And the entire American left was working on behalf of Stalin at one point, but now they hate it. What's the difference? Because it's.
- [44:25]
Tucker Carlson
I don't know. But it's to our harm. And that's.
- [44:26]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
It's a Christian country now, not an atheist country. Yes, that, that's my view. Whatever. I mean, anyway, excuse me. So do you think that Trump can do that? And, like, what would this settlement look, what, what settlement do you think the Russians would accept? What do you think the new administration can actually pull off, given the enormous political pressure on them from enemies?
- [44:48]
Tucker Carlson
If Trump takes your advice there and just says, I don't care what anybody else thinks, this is what I'm going to. This is what's good for America. This is what I was elected to do, then he's going to say, all right, we're going to acknowledge the June 15 line, and it's going to be those four regions there, and that's where the Ukraine side will pull back to those lines, etc. We will declare no NATO. We're never going to go in there. We were never going to go in there. So we'll just acknowledge reality. Bottom line here, no NATO. And there's, there's, that's not going to happen on the border here. And then let's start seeing how we can rebuild relations to our advantage. And we, like you said, this stuff with China and this other stuff, that's, that's, that's irreparable. We can't fix that, but we can. And again, back to the interview with Lavrov. He still desires that. He even called us a great country. I listened to that again earlier today from your interview. He called America a great country. We're demonizing them. And he still is calling us a great country that they want to have relations with. So Trump can exploit that and say, we're going to start repairing that to our advantage and to our benefit, because there is still advantage to have. And instead of going down any other path, I don't know if he'll do it, but he can do it by. Just because he's the president, he gets to call the shots. So we'll see what he does.
- [46:01]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Of all the New Year's resolutions, you're likely to put off. The one you're most likely to put off and keep putting off is buying life insurance. And you should have life insurance. It's kind of crazy not to because the future is unknown. You gotta have life insurance. But you may not have life insurance because it's a huge hassle and it can be a huge ripoff. But there is an answer. Policy genius. It makes it very easy and much cheaper. You can find life insurance policies start at just 292 bucks per year for a million dollars of coverage. And some options and this is the best part, are 100% online and let you avoid unnecessary medical exams. The guy with the gloves. You don't want that. If you can avoid it. And you may be able to avoid it. 40% of people wind up looking back and wishing they'd had had better life insurance or any life insurance. It could have helped their families enormously. Policygenius can fix that for you. Peace of mind. That's what they're really selling. The address policygenius.comtucker or click the link in the description to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much money you could save and how much hassle you could save. Policygenius.com this episode is brought to you by me.
- [47:16]
Tucker Carlson
Undies underwear drawers are like the wild west. You never know what you're going to pull out or what shape it's in. So upgrade your collection with the buttery soft comfort of Meundies. Meundies signature fabric is as soft as a warm hug from your favorite sweater. Plus it's breathable and oh so comfy, making it ideal for all day wear. Get 20% off your first order plus free shipping@meundies.com Spotify with code Spotify. That's meundies.com Spotify code Spotify.
- [47:44]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Yeah, I mean I, I think it would, you know, take every member of Congress, 535 House and Senate and send them for a week to Moscow, then send them to Beijing and send them to Delhi and ask them which of these cities would you live in which has a population that you know, has more in common with Americans? And it's, it's not even close actually. It's not even close. And so your alliances should be built on shared interests but also shared attitudes and history and shared goals. And they're a natural ally of ours. And you know, the east is not, it's just a fact. And they, they fundamentally like us, the people like us. Putin and Lavrov are the most pro western Russian leaders we'll see in My lifetime, actually. The people who replace them will not have those same attitudes. And this is just self harm. What, we're hurting ourselves.
- [48:36]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah. And. And you know, to those people who. And I. I saw a lot of them complaining against you after you, especially if you went to Putin, and they're saying it's Putin apolog. And I would say to them, you show me a map of the last three years physically and also calendar wise, and you show me where we're better off today because we followed the path that you said we did turn them into an enemy. And how have we improved because of that? A million people are dead here. We've lost all this energy here. Our economy has been severely constrained, all because you won't acknowledge reality.
- [49:06]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Is Tony Blinken bad at Russia or something? Yeah, yeah. No, I get angry by people who hate America. Obvious.
- [49:14]
Tucker Carlson
I mean, obviously, even if they don't, maybe they. Maybe they think they like America, but they're harmonious. They're worse than the Russians are. That's the perversion of this. They are harming American interests left and right, making our own military weaker. We are weaker today. We have to fight than we were in February 2020.
- [49:29]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So what? Okay, so this is an area in which you have deep expertise. I don't have any expertise. Where are we right now? From a standpoint of military readiness, we.
- [49:39]
Tucker Carlson
Have made ourselves substantially less good than we used to be. So I fought in an armored warfare in 1991, and we were at our preeminent power because we had been training for a potential Cold War clash all this time. And so we had the force structure, we had the training, we had the institutionalized training. We had all the different levels. Everything you can ever want, we had it at that time. Well, then all of a sudden, we win the Cold War, and then after 9, 11, we completely get rid of all that institutional knowledge we had, and now we're starting to fight, you know, Arabs in the Middle East. And so you had the Iraq War, you had the Afghan War, which dragged on for one and two decades each, and we're doing counterinsurgency stuff. And now we have these stupid bases all over the place. Every time you send a guy there, that means he's not training for our core requirement to defend America. That's why I'm hopeful that that probably the new Secretary of Defense, Pete Hexseth, he said he's focused on national defense on our borders and our skies and to rebuild the military to make them lethal war fighters, which is what we.
- [50:40]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Need to get Back to it's all women now, right? I mean, I just keep reading all these stories about how they couldn't meet recruitment goals. So we're just having women fight our wars?
- [50:47]
Tucker Carlson
Well, it's not.
- [50:47]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
It's not all women.
- [50:50]
Tucker Carlson
What is true is that in one of this DEI stuff. Whatever. And they wanted to give women opportunity. They gave the women opportunity everywhere, even when they weren't physically capable of doing so. So they lowered the standards.
- [51:01]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
But not just physical. There's, like, women, I'm sure, better drone operators than men. I have no trouble believing that. I mean, I have mostly female staff. I think they're smarter and more capable than I am. That's why I've hired them. You know, I'm not against women at all. I think it's a moral problem. You have a home invasion. You're lying in bed with your wife. Do you say to your wife, hey, you get this one right? No, no. The point of war, the point of having a military is to defend your women and children. There's no other reason I don't understand. So you have women fight your wars for you. You're disgusting. I think that I know everyone's. Oh, shut up. You hate women. Actually, I love women, and I hate anyone who would put a woman in combat.
- [51:39]
Tucker Carlson
But in this. In this day and age, you can't.
- [51:41]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Who gives a shit what you feminist think? They've wrecked our society. Like, at some point, if you start the Iraq war or you start feminism, you start something that's like. Or the transgender brain virus, something that's so clearly hurt a lot of people. The Ukraine war. Aren't you disqualified from weighing in on, like, future issues?
- [51:58]
Tucker Carlson
Unfortunately, no.
- [51:59]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Hey, you know, Iraq war guy. Shut up. Hey, Gloria Steinem, you know, dying alone, unmarried and childless. I think you kind of proved it doesn't work right just by your own life. Shut up. Like, I don't understand why. Why people with a long track record of failure. Well, get to talk about, you know, what we do next.
- [52:18]
Tucker Carlson
Do you have to go any further than David Petraeus, former CIA director? The architect of the disaster in Afghanistan to this day is still putting a mic in his face. Ben Hodges, the worst analyst I've ever seen. Still to this day, and I'm talking, like, two or three days ago, is still saying Ukraine can win and eventually get back Crimea. It's totally detached from reality. But they keep putting the mic in front of them. That's what needs to change. Recognize the failure and don't put your mic in front of that guy.
- [52:45]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
I Do think that's the central problem in the United States is that we do not punish anything really. We only punish disobedience to the regime, but nothing else is ever punished. So you can be like the worst fire captain in the Western United States and let your city burn and it's like, you go girl or whatever. But I just do think there's something repulsive about sending women to go defend your country. Where are the men? That's your job, is to defend and provide. That is your job job. And that's not my opinion. That's nature. And there's never been a society, a functional society in which men weren't required to defend and sustain, you know, work to protect the women and children. That's the whole point. This is less than the Titanic. That's Western civilization in a sentence. And we've just inverted it and like, hey, ladies, go. Go defend us while we stay home and game and get high or whatever. Like, I just find it like there's nothing, you know.
- [53:41]
Tucker Carlson
But one of the reasons for that is the. Because that we have lowered the standard so much that a lot of the good guys, they don't want to come in. Like some of your staff members I talked to, those are the good guys, right? But a lot of those kind of people now, they don't want to come into this force because it's like your standards are low and, and I see you're not serious about it, saying the.
- [53:58]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Guys who won the Second World War are somehow too immoral to serve in the military now. And that the fat guy who runs the military can't remember his Millie Mark. Millie, you know, with a chest full of medals, that guy's like, oh, white rage. White men are bad. Really? Who won the Second World War? So Google, look at, look at the pictures. I think it was white men, actually. They're the ones who beat Hitler, so why don't you shut up, tubby?
- [54:18]
Tucker Carlson
So. So if you can't recruit enough men like that, then you have to recruit something. So that's, that's why we're lowering the standards.
- [54:25]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Like, I love women. That's why. But I just think it's. I mean, just think about it for a second. What is the point of having an army? It's so people don't show up and rape your wife, you know, carry off your daughters, murder your children. Like, that's the only point, actually.
- [54:38]
Tucker Carlson
See, here's. That hasn't been exposed yet, though. And I fear that one day we will have to fight a peer or a near Peer. And we haven't since really, you can say Korea, maybe Vietnam, but none since then where we fought anybody who was any good. So you can have anybody, honestly, you know, even our base is so good that we can beat, you know, the Taliban. Well, we can tactically beat the Taliban in any engagement with our military. So there's nobody in Iraq that could have beat us, et cetera. But if we had to fight, I'm just telling you, if we had to fight the Russian army right now, like war broke out tomorrow and all of a sudden we have to send in our divisions, I think we would probably get hammered, obviously. I mean, not even just because of the stuff that you're talking about there, which will also be exposed, but because we don't have the combat experience that they do. And we're still locked like the 1991 or 2003 Iraq war. And the Russians have gone way beyond that and we're way behind on that. But all these things would be exposed. And then until then, then they're not exposed. And still then we still are the greatest military power on earth. And who's to say differently graphically?
- [55:41]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So the Ukrainians took out a bunch of Russian bombers, long range bombers on an airfield with drones early in the war. And I thought to myself, wow, this war, which, I don't know, are we studying this carefully? I mean, I guess we're running it, but are we taking its lessons? Shows that, you know, drone technology has got to change our calculations about where we spend our money. Right. So how many aircraft carriers do you need in a world with drones? I don't know the answer to these questions, but is anyone smart thinking about this?
- [56:12]
Tucker Carlson
Well, I think about it a lot. And in fact, I saw whatever. We're building two new aircraft carriers right now, and they're already naming them what they're going to be. And I'm like, did y'all not watch what happened to the Black Sea Fleet, the Russian Black Sea Fleet, because of naval drones? I mean, dude, they were sent to the bottom of the ocean. We would, we would get hammered if we had to fight. That's, That's World War II level. We're not at World War II anymore. And look, to your point, they're already named.
- [56:37]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
One is called the George Bush, I think.
- [56:38]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, yeah, And Clinton. Bill Clinton is the other one. I'm not making that up. That's, that's what's being reported.
- [56:43]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
The draft dodger as an aircraft carrier.
- [56:45]
Tucker Carlson
Unbelievable.
- [56:46]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
We've reached like peak parity. But why are we building Aircraft. I mean, I look, you know, you're the retired colonel, but. But it does seem like we should pause and ask, like, what are we learning from what's happening in Ukraine?
- [56:59]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say. I was a little surprised that Russia didn't start off on a higher level tactically than it did in February 22nd. They were behind the curve for a long period of time because Armenian Azerbaijan had a war in 2020 where all of this stuff was put on full display for the first time in a large scale. The Armenian armor was hammered from the Azerbaijani because they used the long range drones, they had missiles that had drones and then they were able to bring them in and vector in other targets. So stuff that Doug McGregor wrote about 1997 they employed for the first time. And I thought when I saw that, okay, this is now changed warfare, no one's going to fight the old one anymore because you see how powerful drones are. And the Russians didn't. Well, here's the problem. We still haven't. And now they're not just the 2020. And it was a really short conflict. We've had now three years and we're tinkering around the edges with stuff. There have been some changes, but it's like about this much when you need this much. If we had to fight Russia today, even everything we've observed for the last three years, we are not up to the standard. We are way behind the ball and we would die and I think large numbers.
- [58:04]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So I mean, this is like what we're watching does seem to have like lots of precedent in history. But the most obvious is the British army that spends the entire 19th century fighting all these colonial wars against the Pashtuns and the mutant, you know, the mutinous forces in India and you know, every, the Zulus. And they win most of those engagements. And then they have this peer to peer war in the First World War and it commences with like British cavalry charges into machine gun fire and you know, it destroyed Britain. It's never been a great power really. Since then it's pretended to be, but it's not. It's wrecked the country forever and destroyed the British Empire, that war, First World War. And everyone makes fun of them for that. Like you didn't keep track of what real war was as you were like killing all the villagers around the world.
- [58:51]
Tucker Carlson
And let me tell you, 25 years later, it was the French army's turn. They were the preeminent power on the European continent. And then they just they were destroyed in a month. Oh, I know when the Germans came in using modern technology, modern tactics and new doctrine that they were. And everyone knew, the Germans knew that they were better, but they had to go fight anyway. But because they were still in the not World War I mentality, that's what happened to them. So you have. Yeah, British from World War I, French from World War II. Are we going to be the next in line?
- [59:22]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Well, I mean, because it is. The parallels are pretty obvious. I mean, you know, whatever. You don't want to be mean or anything. But the truth is fighting, you know, Third world nations is different from fighting, you know, technologically advanced, you know, nations that have satellite stations and stuff. And so, yeah, I'm really worried.
- [59:42]
Tucker Carlson
Did you think because Russia's talked openly about if they get into conflict with us, our satellites are the first thing coming down? They've said that recently. I'm talking about. And I'm telling you, we don't even know how to fight without all of our connectivity. And the Russians do because they've learned how to. And that's another factor that if we get into a fight, I think that we're going to get hammered.
- [60:03]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Do you think so? The real question is, do smart people at the Pentagon like, are they throw away all the procurement stuff and the defense contractor pressure and all that, which is like. Seems determinative and a lot of. A lot of the time, but like, is anyone just thinking about this? Is can. Does anyone have the power to change the way the US military.
- [60:22]
Tucker Carlson
I retired in 2015, so I can't speak of anything beyond that. But I can tell you that a lot of my experience, part of that. When I was in the future Combat Systems program at Fort Bliss, Texas in the early 2000s, you had the senior leaders that were totally disconnected from reality. All these exercises and tests that they claim were showing how this new modern force is going to be fantastic. It was all video and fake because the tests were lied. All the guys. I was a major at the time, all of them, like the major and below the guys who were physically doing this stuff, we knew it was absurd and so we told people. But to my context earlier in this conversation, those guys don't get promoted. The guys get promoted. Who signed off on this fake test.
- [61:03]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Results here he's Colonel Davis, not General Davis.
- [61:07]
Tucker Carlson
Indeed. Probably lucky to get colonel, but that's a separate issue.
- [61:10]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So what is. I mean, I just know from living, I'm a. Know very little about the military, but I've been around it a lot and I know from living in Washington, you know, you do run into tons of smart majors and colonels, but like flag officer? No, like what is the. That, what is that? The leap from colonel to general. What does it require and how do they manage to weed out all the smart, free thinking people?
- [61:32]
Tucker Carlson
Because in order to become a general, you have to have the approval of the generals. That's how technically the President designates these people. But in reality the president signs off on whatever and then the Senate signs off on whoever the generals approve of. So they don't approve of anyone that doesn't already play the game. That is one of the big things that I think needs to be reformed because that's why I say they replicate each other so nobody gets up into that upper echelon. And I just got to say, and I hate to use this example, but HR McMaster, who is the former National Security advisor, I fought under him in Desert Storm. He was my direct commander at the time and he was fantastic under fire, was brilliant and I had the highest respect for him for 20 years. We were close friends all the way through until we both went to Afghanistan in 2011, 2010, 2011, at the same time. And then all of a sudden he gets promoted by David Petraeus after he had not been promoted several times before that. Petraeus gets him promoted and now he becomes a general and almost overnight he starts sounding like Petraeus and stuff that he and I had talked about before, that's like, you know, there's so much, this is unreal, untrue, this is not going to work. All of a sudden now he's saying it. He was put in charge during that time of the anti corruption process for the Afghan government and he claimed over and over how they were making progress and all this stuff. And as we talked about earlier in this show, that never happened. But then since that time, now then he's going on and saying all kinds of stuff like yes, he needs to, you know, is anti Russian and all this. He became like them and so now he's just another one of them. He got absorbed. And all the stuff that happened before that when he was the one who was talking on the outside. Well, he was, I don't understand.
- [63:07]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
He was, I mean even I knew who he was. And again, I don't follow this that closely, but he was famous for, for his, well, intellectual horsepower, but also curiosity, honesty, like he was a well known guy.
- [63:20]
Tucker Carlson
Right? Yeah, the, the battle of 73 easting that, that he was in command of was. I mean they still study it today in West Point. And for good reason, because he was, it was tremendous. But something happened to him after he got promoted from colonel to Brigadier general.
- [63:36]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Just like swimming in a, in the filthy pool of power politics or what. What do you think?
- [63:42]
Tucker Carlson
I, I can. I really. Because we literally never spoke after that time. What it was really sad. We, we had a good friendship up until that time, but then we broke. And that's just in 2011. Never spoke again. So I don't have any idea what may or may not be the case. I just see him on TV all the time, so I don't know. Wow.
- [64:00]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
How do you feel about the national security team being assembled?
- [64:04]
Tucker Carlson
I, I am a huge fan of Tulsi Gabbard. I, I think I, I had advice. I are recommended and sent. I mean, I don't have a lot of influence, but to people who have the knowledge, I, I suggested she would have been a better secretary of state, maybe even secretary of defense, because I think her mind is brilliant and her focus on America and keeping America safe. You look at everything she's done and said she's tough. Yeah. Consistently through her career is always focused on what's going to benefit America and she's smart, knows how to do it. I hope that Pete Hegseth does what he said he was going to do in his opening statement, that he revitalizes the national security, the Defense Department and picks up the war fighting ethos mentality, holds people accountable, passes. And I hope he does all those things. If he does, then I think we're going to be in a lot better shape. And Mike Wallace, I've also been concerned by some of the statements he has made. But if President Trump is calling the shots, I think he'll do what President Trump tells him. We'll just have to hope and see with that. But those are the main ones in there. And so some of the. Oh, bridge Colby is another really good, good situation there, a good person there.
- [65:12]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So I think that's right.
- [65:13]
Tucker Carlson
Having him in a position right now is going to be very good. So there's a number of people right now, then the Trump team here that he's going to start with. That was a huge anchor that he didn't have in 2016. So I'm hopeful that he can move forward.
- [65:26]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
How hard is it to reform the Pentagon?
- [65:28]
Tucker Carlson
It's enormously difficult. I don't want to underestimate how that is because it is absolutely built on no change. It wants to perpetuate stuff because all those generals I just talked about who have been replicated, are still in control of that. So it's going to be really hard. I tell you what I would love to see. I would love to see Trump come in and do what he did, what President Roosevelt did just before World War II, where he had the army chief of Staff come in and say, you know what? We're going to review everybody here, and anybody who's not pulling their weight or is not modernized, they're going to get. They're going to get rid of them. And I think it was like hundreds of senior colonels and generals were retired from the service, and then they elevated new people who could get the job done, who were smart, etc.
- [66:11]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Stalin did that with gun, with gunfire. But.
- [66:14]
Tucker Carlson
Well, I don't want that path, but I do want the George Marshall path.
- [66:18]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
No, but I mean, look, what did the winning side do in both. In both cases, in the US and in the Soviet Union, they got new leadership.
- [66:26]
Tucker Carlson
Yeah, because guys who aren't performing need to get out of the way.
- [66:29]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
No, I agree. And by the way, I'm not calling for a purge of the US Military by force or anything like that, but I think it needs a peaceful purge.
- [66:35]
Tucker Carlson
It does. I strongly so. Because. Because these guys all have an incentive to maintain the status quo. And they will, I think, push against anything Hexeth does if they're all left in power. So I kind of think that he.
- [66:46]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
So really it comes down to what it always comes down to, which is how the information is presented to the public through the media, who are working every day assiduously with their allies and paymasters in the federal bureaucracy. And if you care what they think, you will achieve nothing. They will control you. And if you don't care what they think, then you have a chance at eliminating corruption and righting the country.
- [67:09]
Tucker Carlson
Because you look at what history is going to say. Biden did all the things you mentioned. He got along with everybody, everybody loved him. But history will continue condemn him and all his leaders. Trump will face heat up at the front. But if he does these things, then history will love him if it improves our country. And that's what I hope we see.
- [67:27]
Colonel Douglas Macgregor
Colonel Davis, thank you very much. That was great.