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The Tucker Carlson Show
Zelensky’s Press Secretary Reveals All: Cocaine, Cover-ups, and the Only Obstacle Preventing Peace
01:38:27
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- [00:05]
A
Thank you for doing this. I'm amazed. I never thought I would speak to anyone around Zelenskyy, so. And I know you're doing this at some great risks yourself, so thank you very much. So you were President Zelensky's press secretary?
- [00:19]
B
Yes. First of all, thank you for having me. And I never expected to see myself here talking about my former boss, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I used to work for him for two years, since 2019 till 2021.
- [00:32]
A
How did you wind up working for him?
- [00:36]
B
Well, Volodymyr Zelensky announced the job via Facebook and everybody started applying. And I didn't want to apply first because I thought he would take someone, you know, Nepotically.
- [00:49]
A
Yes.
- [00:50]
B
But there was an open application and I went through 4,000 of applicants. It's not a joke. And then actually I need to prove myself that I can do a job and that he can trust me. But yeah, we found the common ground. And I think I was very faithful towards him, you know?
- [01:08]
A
Yes.
- [01:09]
B
And I supported him. And I supported him in 2022 when Russia made its large scale invasion. As millions of Ukrainians, I was grateful that he stayed in the country.
- [01:22]
A
Yes.
- [01:23]
B
That's why it's so, so strange and desperate for me to be here and to talk who he really is. I don't have personal vendetta, but I believe that he is one of the biggest obstacles towards peace today. So I wanted to tell the people who he is.
- [01:39]
A
Who is he?
- [01:43]
B
First of all, he's not a person whom you see on camera. He's a very different person. He changes masks all the time. He is emotionally uncontrollable.
- [01:56]
A
Emotionally uncontrollable?
- [01:58]
B
Yeah. He doesn't control his emotions. He's often hysterical and he thinks that every person is disposable. He doesn't have empathy that he plays. He's absolutely insanely great actor and that brought us a lot of support in 2022. But his acting doesn't have any substance. And everything that he's saying, it's so detached from the reality. And majority of the things that he's saying, it's either manipulation or it's a fact that is being taken from the context or it's pure lies. And millions of people still believe that supporting Zelensky means supporting Ukraine. But today it's different and attacker. I would like to say I'm not here to justify Russian invasion. I'm not here to justify Putin. What Russian army is doing in Ukraine equals crimes against humanity. Yes, but this war is not black and white anymore. It's dark and even darker. We just see Putin as an evil. But Zelensky is also an evil. He's just a hidden one. He plays such a teddy bear, you know, on camera, but then when the light goes off, he's a grizzly bear, and. And he destroys the people. It's almost surreal to recollect that almost every Western leader and Western delegations that were coming to Ukraine before the war, they treated Zelensky as a political novice. They saw he was low, educated, unqualified, and low debts. But then overnight, he just turned into this great face of democracy. But it feels like the west created the myth, fell into it and, you know, doesn't it see, doesn't that the west keeps ignoring the fact that this, beneath that Zelensky's rhetoric, heroic rhetoric, he keeps accumulating power, and I'm not afraid to say he keeps hollowing the very same people he claims to save. It's pretty strong to say, I know that, but I believe that, you know, people need to understand that if you want to support Ukraine, the only way to support Ukraine today is to push for the peace, this deal. This is the only way that Ukraine can survive, because I believe we are on the verge of extinction. Somebody is talking about two, three years of war anymore. It just like, doesn't come up with numbers, with demography, with anything, with all those suffering that's happening in the country.
- [04:32]
A
No, no, thank you. Thank you for saying that. I agree. I'm not Ukrainian, but I don't understand the point of this. I have many questions about how and why it started, but what's beyond question is Ukraine as a nation is being eliminated. That's obvious to me. Biggest country in Europe, so it's a big deal. What are. Since you mentioned numbers, how many people live in Ukraine? So when you started working for Zelenskyy, you worked for the Government of Ukraine, 2019. How many Ukrainians were there in Ukraine?
- [05:00]
B
So officially, Ukraine is the country of 40, 42 million people. But we had the last census, I think, in 2000 or 2001, and we did not manage to organize another one. So when I was working for the government, government officials, including Zelensky, were telling the numbers that they Believed there are 34, 37 millions of Ukrainians in the country now, with around 10 or plus 10 plus million of Ukrainians turning into refugees, going to the West. Some stay in occupation, you know, eastern countries, and even some in Russia, perhaps through 25 million in the Ukrainians in the country. And the worst thing is that 11 million of them are retired people. And these retired people live for the pensions from 75 to 180, $200 per month. And Ukraine is not that super cheap country where you can actually survive for this money. Just two weeks or three weeks ago, there was a terrible story when one director, movie director of Ukraine, who was a retired person, died at his home. And his neighbor wrote that he died from hunger and cold. There were these severe temperatures in Ukraine and he didn't have anyone to help him. I just like wonder if ever we will know the statistics, how many people died from this cold and from having no opportunities to survive.
- [06:29]
A
Wait, so you're saying that the Ukraine right Now has maybe 15 million, maybe fewer working people? Working people actually who are working in the entire country.
- [06:42]
B
Well, you don't count children. Children are not working. Right. So I don't know how many children under 18 are there, but perhaps if we have around 10 million of working people, that would be fine.
- [06:53]
A
Wow, that's amazing.
- [06:54]
B
Yes.
- [06:55]
A
How many have died in the war, do you know?
- [06:58]
B
The numbers are very different and it's very difficult to count. Right now the official UN verified statistics is around 50, 15,000 of civilians. The numbers of those who turned into military are not known, so it's very hard to know. But only in Mariupol it is known that there are graves for around 20,000 of Ukrainians. So I guess there are at least hundreds of thousands of those who died and we will just never know the numbers. I'm sorry, it's so painful to talk about.
- [07:29]
A
Well, it's absolutely awful. But I'm wondering why. Well, my government, which has funded a lot of this war, why we can't get a straight answer from the US government, from the Ukrainian government, the Russian government, I mean, no one seems to have an interest in finding out the real number of dead.
- [07:46]
B
Yes, well, it's very difficult to do because how do you do this in occupation? Right? There is no any relation with that side that would allow to learn this information. And the other side, which is Russian side, obviously is interested in hiding the numbers, right?
- [08:01]
A
Yes.
- [08:02]
B
I don't believe in verified numbers. And obviously look, many people who are military now, they used to be just ordinary civilians, right? Engineers, IT guys, journalists, working their everyday life. And then they turned into military. So of course they are soldiers, but they're also people, right? And they are dying. And there are a lot of these things I've heard from the front lines when a person was killed and the body is brought and he has a Bullet in his head. And the government officials, you know, lock officials just don't want to put him as a dad from the front line. So they say he died from a heart attack, for instance. Yeah, it's war. And I think it was happening in every war. It's just like, I think we will never know the true number. But there are so many people who are suffering there. And you know, I told you this terrible story about retired people and that they live for such absolutely outrageously new, low, low pensions. Just when I talk about Zelensky, I'm an insider. I talk to so many people who used to work for him or even those people who work for him. And to be just, you know, to be clear, I believe that he stands behind many schemes of money laundering. And one of the stories is that I have a friend who was shortlisted for the position of the Ministry of Social Policies during the large scale invasion. And he was called and he said that he was one of five candidates and he would be interviewed by Zelensky and Mr. Yermak, then chief of Staff of President Zelensky. And he was told that during the interview he would need to come up with the schemes of money laundry so that they are financed from the Ministry of Social Policy and Ministry of Social Policy is the ministry that is responsible for pensions. So when we're talking about those poor pensioners, you know, and knowing the fact that Zelensky himself approves the schemes of money laundering, I mean, is he guilty? I want your audience to respond to that. Okay. Do you understand the desperacy of mine?
- [10:19]
A
Well, here's a pretty awful statistic. Over 85% of the so called grass fed beef sold in this country comes from other countries, not American. That's no good for our farmers, it's a tragedy for them. And that's why it matters, to be intentional about where you buy your meat. That's why we buy our meat from good ranchers. Good ranchers partners with local farmers and ranchers deliver 100% American meat delivered right to your house. It's pasture raised, has no antibiotics, no added hormones, nothing awful or bad for you. It's quality meat and you can feel good about eating it and serving it to the people you love. We use good ranchers meat for dinners here. It's awesome. We could eat it every day and never get bored. It's like a dog eating dog food every time. You are thrilled. We are. Anyway, start your plan today and you'll get free meat included with every order, plus 100 bucks off your first three orders. Use the code Tucker to get that. Visit good ranchers.com the code is, Tucker. That's free meat with every order and 100 bucks off your first three orders when you start your subscription plan this month, or if you just want to try it out, you can get $40 off your first order with the code TUCKER. Goodranchers.com American meat delivered to you. I think most people watching assume that Ukraine is corrupt and has been for a long time and that the Zelensky regime is especially corrupt. I think Americans believe that, but there's almost no evidence that has come out in the American press. The American media has not written very much about his corruption. Why do you think that is? Is.
- [11:48]
B
You know, I saw good pieces about corruption, but you're right that there are not too many of them. It's very hard, first of all, to prove it, but I think there was also some kind of agreement. Not official one. Right. Unofficial agreement that we all need to support Zelensky, because this means to support Ukraine, we all united to. To support Ukraine. But Zelensky abused this unity. He abused our belief in democracy. He abused our fight. He abused our sacrifice, Ukrainian sacrifice, and what the Europeans and Americans were doing for us. He abused, actually the trust of so many people. I believe that, you know, millions who still support Zelensky, they were, you know, looking for some great guy in politics. They wanted to believe that there is someone, you know, Churchill or whatever.
- [12:44]
A
Exactly.
- [12:45]
B
Story guy who would really do something good for the people. And Zeleski is amazing actor. He's gonna give you what you want.
- [12:53]
A
Exactly.
- [12:54]
B
And that's. That's what's happening. He still plays on camera, this great guy, but believe me, behind the camera, he's very different. I was working for two years. For two years, this guy was repeating two phrases which are very vocal about him. One of them, he was saying, Ukraine is not ready for democracy. And this is a quote. Another quote was, dictatorship is an order. So how on earth a person who believes that Ukraine is not ready for democracy and that dictatorship is an order actually can. Can be the face of democracy?
- [13:35]
A
Someone who's canceled elections, who's not actually elected president. I couldn't agree more. So what, in 2019. 20. 20. 2021. What was Zelenskyy saying about Russia?
- [13:49]
B
Zelenskyy came to the presidency as the president of peace.
- [13:54]
A
Yes.
- [13:55]
B
During his electoral.
- [13:57]
A
We've seen this before.
- [13:58]
B
Oh, yeah. He's the guy who made himself in Russia. The first biggest money he made was in Russia, millions of dollars. He was working for Russian propaganda channels. And he was fine with that. Furthermore, he was. Of course, he made all his career, tens of years. He was everywhere. In Moscow, by the way, when the first Russian invasion in Donbass happened and Russia annexed Crimea, he was spending time in Russia. He was finishing his movie, for which he got a lot of money. And he even recognized this in August 2019, 19, I think he wrote. Yes, I was in Russia. I was finishing the movie. It was 2014. The war was going on. Furthermore, I'm writing a book right now, and it's a different book. It's a book about real Zelensky. And I learned a lot of facts and talked a lot of people about to a lot of people, and this information was nowhere. But it happened that he had several properties in Crimea. And when the war was happening in Donbass already, he was spending time in Crimea having wheat. Wheat with. With. I mean, marijuana, with his friends from 95th cartel and making facilities there and enjoying time. And he didn't care that Russia next.
- [15:18]
A
Crimea, while it was Russian control.
- [15:20]
B
Yes, it was under Russian control. It was.
- [15:22]
A
He was vacationing. And Russia, Russian controlled Crimea.
- [15:25]
B
Yes, it was May 2014. I talked to a person who was working for him, a person who was helping him put the windows into the house, and a person was telling different details about how Zelensky was behaving. So everything that Zelensky is saying is really. Is really very different truth, you know, Very different truth.
- [15:47]
A
So he was the peace candidate.
- [15:49]
B
He came promising that he would stand on his knees in front of Putin and beg Putin to stop. That's what he was promising. He was saying that Ukrainian and Russian languages are both languages that need to exist, that people speak both languages, and, you know, it makes people stronger, that we need to be friends with Russia. He was saying all this stuff, and that's why people voted for him. They didn't want war. Nobody wants war. There is nothing good in war. And now he totally adapted some nationalist ideology that is not natural for Ukrainians, and he really plays it well. And what.
- [16:34]
A
What happened? How did. I mean, most people in the United States were not paying attention.
- [16:40]
B
Yes.
- [16:41]
A
And we sort of look up to the tv and there's Joe Biden's vice president, Kamala Harris, at the Munich security conference in January 2022 with Zelensky saying, you need to join NATO. And he says, great. That's not the behavior of someone who wants to avoid war.
- [16:59]
B
You know, one thing is that he has been escalating the rhetoric. Another thing, you know, I was present at his meeting with Vladimir Putin in 2019 in Paris. There were very few people near him who knew the truth. He had private conversation with Putin where he promised Putin that Ukraine will never join NATO. So he's right in 2019. Yes, it was December 2019 and there was a personal conversation. There were very few people know what he promised. He said no NATO because Ukraine has never, you know, Ukraine has never was, was never close to a, to NATO for being the part of NATO. First of all, we need to have market economy and be reformed country. It's not like just Trump doesn't want Ukraine in NATO, Biden doesn't want Ukraine. It's not about names. It's just like we're not ready for NATO. There is no consensus to be NATO. It's, it's imagination, it's, it's lies. He stick to this fact of joining nature knowing that it's impossible. He was pushing the impossible agenda and making it a condition for peace. In October 2024, he presented to the parliament victory plan and he said that joining NATO is the most important thing and long range missiles for Ukraine are the most important thing. And he made this the victory plan. But it's ridiculous, it's impossible. And look how he uses it. He uses impossible things to justify his own agenda and actually creating his hero image. For instance, remember after he left Donald Trump, he said it's not so easy to get rid of me. He said this to the journalists, if Ukraine is taken to NATO, I'm ready to step down knowing that Ukraine is not going to be taken to NATO. So it's very easy to promise something under the condition of impossible things. Yes, right. That's what he is doing. So this is one thing. What if I can?
- [19:06]
A
Oh, of course.
- [19:08]
B
One of the most shocking moments for me personally if I'm for communications team in 2019, 2020, was he was really scared that his ratings started dropping down and he was sure that communications team was guilty in that he thought it was your fault, not mine, but all communications people. But I was there, the part of the team and he gathered eyes and he started saying that there are no positive news about what he is doing in the country. And my colleague started arguing with the President very diplomatically, but she was saying, look, there are now so many positive things that are happening. You're promising something but doesn't happen. She was of course very diplomatic. She didn't say it like that, but that was the thought. And he said it doesn't matter what's happening. The most important thing we need 1,000 of talking heads. And if 1,000 of talking heads tells positive things, then positive things are happening, that people believe that there are positive things. And she kept arguing and she brought a very good example. She said there was a group of internally displaced people from Donbass families who lost homes. And Zelensky promised them apartments. And we don't speak about thousands or hundreds. There were like 10 apartments or something like this. And nobody took care about that. So he promised the families were waiting, nobody to care about that. So she said, if there are no those apartments, people will know that there are no apartments. It doesn't matter how many talking hats were, will say that there are apartments, right? And he said, no, if talking hats, thousand people tell you that this is happening, then this is happening. So she continued to argue. And he became very irritated. And he put his hands like this, what he was doing. He leaned to the table, he looked at us, and he said in a very irritated tone, I need gobbles propaganda. If you want. I need gobbles propaganda. I need thousands of talking heads of Goebbels propaganda.
- [21:16]
A
Meaning Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist.
- [21:18]
B
Yes, that was Major Hitler's propagandist. And we were like so shocked, we stopped breathing. But okay, the thing is that I believe what happened in 2022. He's got his thousands of talking heads globally, right? And many of that of us were not supposed to be his heads. We just, you know, we were standing for the country. We believed that he would stop the war soon, that. That, you know, we needed to be united. We believed in that. And four years later, Ukrainians don't believe in Zelensky's agenda anymore. But still there are thousands of talking heads, and many of them just get paid for that, you know.
- [22:04]
A
Who do they get paid by?
- [22:06]
B
Oh, different stuff. For instance, if they are asked the conferences for moderation or for writing positive message, it's called positive message about Ukraine. Some oligarchs can pay or, you know, it goes from grants or something like this. In Ukraine, obviously the experts get paid from the structures that are close to the government, those the biggest patriots, or, you know, grants from European Union, for instance. And, you know, I'm not saying that these people are bad. No, they are not in many ways. They just not are aware of what's happening. They're calling, they're talking to each other or to some experts or to the government. They still believe in the legend that Zelensky has some ratings. And by the way, just a week ago, I was Talking to insider from the office of the President. And again, I was working for the office of the President. I know there are different ratings, ratings that are closed just for the eyes of the president and few in the team and ratings that are presented to the government, to the public. Right. And, and the insider from, from politics who saw the rating said that Zelensky is non electable. His ratings are so low. I was looking at Those ratings in 2023 and 2024 every month and his ratings were very, very low, getting lower and lower and lower. And here is another big revelation for you. When Donald Trump went out and named Zelensky a dictator and when he was talking about low ratings of Zelensky, of course Zelensky said that Donald Trump is influenced by Russians and this is all Russian propaganda. And Donald Trump was called pro Russian as every critic of Zelensky. But in fact, Donald Trump got information from a lot of Ukrainians. These are former government officials and even current government officials. These are people who close to President Zelensky. They provided evidence, documents, witnesses, what they knew, everything. Because when Donald Trump came to power for the second term, so many Ukrainians hoped and still hope that he will help achieve peace.
- [24:11]
A
I hope so too. Cost of living is already making it hard to live here and it's not getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse. And a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills. That is a disaster. It's understandable. But don't go down that road because there is a tax, in effect, a survival tax of 20% interest or more. Why would you do that? Why would you hand money to the big banks when you could keep it for your family? Our friends at American Financing have a better way. If you're looking to buy your first home or refinance your current one, they're helping Americans achieve the dream of homeownership. With monthly mortgage rates currently in the fives, American Financing saves its customers an average of 800 bucks per month. That's nearly 10 grand every year. Back to you. This isn't just a loan. It's a total financial reset. So debt is tough, but there's a smart way to do it and a reckless, self destructive way to do it. Credit cards. And so we recommend American Financing. They're salary based, not commission based, which means they actually work for you, not the banks. They're called America's Home for Home Loans for a reason, call 800-685-56968. Hundred 685-5696 or visit americanfinancing.net Tucker, what was Zelensky's relationship?
- [25:32]
B
I'm so angry now.
- [25:35]
A
It's okay. You have every reason to be. You have every reason to be. It's your country. Can't even imagine actually.
- [25:43]
B
Ugand.
- [25:44]
A
No, I can't. I hope I never have to see anything like that here. What was Zelensky's relationship like with Joe Biden?
- [25:53]
B
Oh, so there is a very good American journalist who wrote a book and he mentioned that relationships. But I also met him and he told me in private conversation that Biden was thinking that Zelensky was emotionally manipulative when I was there. He also described in the book that Zelensky thought that Biden was weak. When I was there, Zelensky had several interviews to push Biden for some agenda. And I remember that I met one American diplomat. He was pissed off with this interview. He was shouting at me so, so much. And it was a party and I was not the organizer. Mr. Yermak was an organizer and diplomat knew. He's just so pissed off that he couldn't stop shouting and he shouted that that interview was kind of either stupid or unprofessional. And it shouldn't be like that. When I was leaving and I resigned, there are boards who are spreading the rumor that I was fired because I worked for Russia. This is not true. We departed on good terms. Zelensky thanked me, he wished me good luck. They wanted me to continue as an advisor to the office. So we departed in good. In good terms. The thing is that Zelensky actually was destroying relations with multiple actors in the west, including with the United States. And one of the things was that since 2020 till 2021, for a year, there was a reform agenda and Zelensky literally was destroying every reform. And it was happening like one by one. And that was disastrous.
- [27:42]
A
And what kind of reforms?
- [27:45]
B
What kind of reforms? So there was an agreement with the IMF in 2020, Ukraine was as often on the verge of default and we needed money. And obviously IMF doesn't provide you money for free. So there was like 10 or 12 positions of the reforms that needed to be done. And as soon as. So the landscape really did a miraculous job with two, the most difficult reforms. He pressed the parliament to vote for it for them, which actually means that he could go through this agenda, difficult agenda and push for the reforms. He just didn't want to. As soon as two reforms were pushed through, the IMF approved $5.5 billion. And I remember I was present at the conversation between Zelenskyy and Kristalina Georgieva. They spoke in Russian because Kristalina Georgieva is Bulgarian. And they had such trust and understanding, you know. But as soon as the money came through and the first tranche was 2.1 billion more than they wanted to give at the beginning, in few days, Zelensky violated the first reform. He fired by political reasons the head of the National Bank. And it was a big scandal. Kristalina Guerrero gave a cold back and she never spoke spoke in Russian to Zelensky anymore because she was undermined. She promised to the board that he was a reliable man, that he agreed for reforms, that he proved that he could push reforms through. And then suddenly, as soon as he gets first money, he fires the head of the National Bank. And the head of the national bank said that he was fired via political pressure. And you know, that was a scandal. Zelensky explained her this. He said there will be another independent head of the national bank, but he will just be our. He will be just our head of National Bank. He will be professional and independent, but he will be coming from us. He even doesn't understand what he's saying. Right. It's hilarious. Do you understand me?
- [29:50]
A
I do, I do.
- [29:51]
B
Okay. So then after that there was justice reform, there was a scandal in the courts. Then there was another, another, another, like every reform and the last one that was really, that, that was really blowing up, it was corporate reform, actually the reform that was needed to be destroyed to make corruption. So the United States helped Ukraine to establish the corporate reform. As in the United States, there is the board of independent people who looks how actually the state enterprises are working and looking so that there is no corruption there. There is a big Ukrainian oil and gas company, Naftal Gas in Ukraine. And Zelensky just dismissed the independent board and put his own people there. And yeah, this is something that hasn't been public, but we were talking to anti corruption activists and there was money laundering at some point from NAFTA Gas. So Zelensky just wanted to turn this state oil and gas company in Russian Gazprom. So when there is your own person there and there are dock offices and the money is laundered from there. And that's when the United States was so pissed off that they did not prolong the sanctions against Nord Stream. I'm going really deep here. I don't know if your audience is going, I mean, I don't know if your audience is going to Understand everything. But Nord Stream was a pipeline that Russia was building to bring its own gas to, to the European Union. And it was sanctioned by, by the United States. And so when Ukraine, when President Zelensky was actually violating all the reforms that he had agreed with the United States at some point, Biden's administration was so pissed off that they didn't decided to allow Russia to finish this North Stream pipeline. Does make sense.
- [31:54]
A
It does. And then they blew it up in the end anyway.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [31:59]
A
We pray that the war with Iran ends immediately. But the truth is it doesn't seem to be. If you're the head of household, you need to think through what this could mean for you and the people you're in charge of. Don't wait for disaster to strike to ensure that you have the basics covered. Food, water, light, energy. And that's exactly why we started a company called Last Country Supply. It's our store. It carries the same preparedness products that we have. Well, in this barn, for example, the products that give any head of household peace of mind, knowing that if something bad happened, you could take care of the people you're responsible for. So continue to pray for an end to war and violence, but also at the same time, make sure that your family is ready, stock up on the products that we trust@lastcountrysupply.com Tucker. Is Zelenskyy himself corrupt?
- [32:48]
B
So there was one minister. I don't name the people, okay. But he had good connections with the United States, and that's why Zelensky appreciated him. And there was this absolutely ridiculous story that, you know, Ukrainian ministries get very low salaries, like $12,000 per year. Yeah, yeah. That's why there is corruption there, right?
- [33:11]
A
Yes.
- [33:12]
B
And he said, look, I don't need much, but I will need like $5,000 per month. So 60,000 per year.
- [33:19]
A
Yep.
- [33:19]
B
Like, you know, really didn't want much, but that would guarantee that he did not make corruption. Zelensky, of course, promised him in his first interview and obviously did not do anything for that. So the minister just started writing himself premium bonuses. And opposition was attacking him like, oh, my God, $5,000 per month for the minister. That was such a scandal. You know, Zelensky obviously didn't like that. So when the first government was dismissed, this guy was invited. And Zelensky said, look, I like how you work. You have good relations with the west. Maybe you want to continue in the other government, but you cannot have $5,000 of official salary because it causes so much scandal. And when the guy Entered the room. There was President Zelensky here, Mr. Yermak here, and another person whom I know here. And there was a bag of dollars on their table. And the guy said, I can't give you 5,000 of official salary, but I will be giving you 5,000 of, you know, dark money every month. So you can get your salary. But it's not going to be official. Okay? Which means if Zelensky knows it, it's not corruption, of course. You see, does he take.
- [34:31]
A
Do you think Zelensky and his family have gotten rich since the war began?
- [34:35]
B
They have always been rich. He's playing this poor guy in his. This cheap sweater. He is rich, obviously. Look, I don't know where the money goes, but I was meeting one veteran of politics who has known Zelensky for dozens of years. And the first thing he asks me, where is the money? What he's like. I know Zelenskyy for many years. He has never lifted a finger for free. He would never do anything for free. So, you know, I'm not a law enforcement. It's something for the law enforcement to prove. Yes, but I've just told you already two stories, right. There was another story from another minister who just called us recently and he said when he was on the position, those very close people to Zelensky were actually taking percentage from some governmental programs. I mean, illegal percentage.
- [35:33]
A
Yes.
- [35:34]
B
And he told Zelensky that they are taking really too much already. Like, really, they're insisting on very big amounts. And Zelenskyy smiled and said, good job, guys. Good job, guys. And he was not joking. The minister says he was not joking. He was really happy it was happening. And then the minister thought, oh, we are not going far with this. Yeah, he resigned later. Now, in the government there are very few people who are professionals. They are there, but very few. Mostly Zelensky puts the loyalists who will never say no and who create the agenda that absolutely is out of mind. He just wants something like if he is writing his scripts of the servant of the people, and then he just wants. He demands this. And people go and they just make up some reports. And he goes with these reports and says that this is true. This is how it works. Unfortunately, he's a PR guy and pr only pr. He's not the guy of substance.
- [36:45]
A
Who does he listen to? Who are his advisors? Yermak, you said was his chief of staff for years. I don't know that he still is, but he's identified in the west as Zelenskyy's closest friend. And advisor. Is that true? And who is Yermak?
- [36:58]
B
Mr. Yermak started his career at the strip club long ago. Yeah, like not stripper, but as a lawyer at a strip club. Yes, a lot. There was a strip club where there were a lot of those people who later would become politicians in the pro Russian party. And he was a lawyer there. And I was talking to first employee of Yermak and first employee or said he had so many ambitions and he had no absolutely talents for those ambitions. That's. That's just, you know, a quote. Yeah, so he started like that and he met there a lot of people who would later join into politics at the strip club. Yeah, it was very famous strip club. It was 90s, I think or early 2000s. Then he was working for a store of luxury brands that mostly are brought not officially via smuggling. And that's where he also met a lot of rich people, oligarchs. And 95th Bartal is also buying clothes there. So officially Mr. Max says that he was a lawyer at one of the biggest Ukrainian channels and that's where he met Zelensky, who used to be a general producer of that channel. But I'm not sure where they met. So it's possible that they just met through, you know, some other entertaining stories. Yermak also made some movies about smuggling, which is very symbolic for me since he used to work in that business. He was involved in some dark affairs of mafia stuff on the level of Kiev city. And that's how you know, he knew a lot of politicians. And from the point of view of not politics, but how the things can be done. He could be helpful to Zelensky. Their relations was very strange, very different, very, very difficult. Very strange. Yermak knows that he is personally narcissistic and he knows that Zelenskyy is narcissist. And these are two malignant paranoid narcissists. Oh my God. What I'm saying that. But that's true.
- [39:14]
A
Yermak and Zelenskyy are both malign narcissist.
- [39:18]
B
Yermak and Zelensky are both malignant and very paranoid narcissists who are both on defensive mode.
- [39:25]
A
They're both paranoid.
- [39:28]
B
You're macmore.
- [39:29]
A
How paranoid?
- [39:31]
B
Oh, Yermak, he just creates the stuff from nowhere. You don't need to do anything while he can come up with something. I don't know, it's really some kind of a sick mind, to be frank. And it was some kind of a symbios and Zelenskyy had the vision And Yermak had the tools to implement the vision. It was not about politics or policies. It was more about what they wanted for themselves. It's important to say that sometimes Zelensky didn't know how to make what he wanted, how to make it work.
- [40:14]
A
Yes.
- [40:15]
B
So he was just saying the desires, and we are. Mac was finding the way. And often it was happening that Zelensky then says to do this, but Yermak calls and say, don't do this. Because he saw doing this in this, this way. And in general, that was so chaotic, like no professional could work there. I'm saying that it's not possible because they just like keeping saying different things, keeping changing the strategies, keeping changing the moods, keeping changing everything all the time. And they create this feeling that there is so much work and everybody works, works, works, but nothing is done.
- [40:55]
A
Sounds awful.
- [40:56]
B
It's. It's really strange, but I. I'm not the one who knows that.
- [41:00]
A
What. What. What do you think Zelensky wanted? Like, what were his goals?
- [41:07]
B
Well, I definitely know that he thought he came forever. His first chief of staff said it once. He laughed to the minister and said, we came forever.
- [41:21]
A
So he liked being the dictator.
- [41:24]
B
Well, he is a dictator. The borders are closed now for four years. It's illegally. The human rights violations is enormous. The persecution of the people. In 2024, when Donald Trump came to power, there was a member of parliament who wrote on telegram, zelensky, now we need to stop this war. And yes, you will lose the next elections, but stop this war. Like, Trump will push you. Stop this war. And he was in jail in three days. He's still in jail.
- [41:55]
A
Really?
- [41:56]
B
Yeah. And I talked to security services, and they said he. He never talked to Russia since 2021. No connection. But he is accused in treason. And there are a lot of people who are. People are persecuted, obviously, there are dirty campaigns. Everyone who criticizes Zelensky is just pro Russian, Russian, Pro Kremlin, your program. I will be pro Kremlin after this interview. You know, I believe that American special services do their job well. And if there were any Pro Kremlin payments or contacts, obviously they would know that, right? Yeah. So, in general, this is it. But, you know, for me personally, the situation in the country is inhuman because I never would think that my country would be the one where people are grabbed on the streets and forced to the front lines. I never would think that we all agree and stay silent to the fact that Zelensky uses frontline as the punishment,
- [43:02]
A
like he uses the war as A punishment, Political punishment.
- [43:07]
B
Yeah, he even was open about that. He was saying, if somebody does something bad, we need to punish them and send to the front line. That was his statements. But there are people who are sent there just because they're critics of Zelensky, you know?
- [43:24]
A
Do you know anyone who's been sent for criticizing Zelensky?
- [43:27]
B
There were people from the security services who were sent publicly, and there were a few people who were sent there.
- [43:34]
A
What's it like, the front line?
- [43:37]
B
There are different front lines. Some people find frontline, you know, in a cozy place, just wearing the uniform and playing the role of some bloggers. But I know people who survived when their units were killed. It's terrifying. My mother was treating soldiers who were sent in bad uniforms during winter to another side. And their fingers and limbs were cut off because they were frozen. Every year, Ukrainians are collecting money for their uniforms. You know, necessary stuff. Women are cooking food for. For the soldiers. No, I'm not kidding. There are a lot of volunteers.
- [44:20]
A
But the west has sent hundreds of billions of dollars and they don't have gloves or food.
- [44:26]
B
Well, they have. Some of them have food. Some of them are looking for more, you know, and yeah, usually people are collecting even money for weapons or for starlings.
- [44:36]
A
What about all the hundreds of billions from the.
- [44:39]
B
Yeah, you need to track it. You need to track it. But look, there is a scandal right now in Ukraine when the Minister of energy was fired and it is now known that he helped money laundry $112 million. $112 million. And those money should have been used for the shield for energy sector. And it's a huge scandal in Ukraine. There is proven stuff by the law enforcement. And behind the whole scheme is the guy who worked with Russian mafia. That's amazing. You should go and look into it. But there is the whole scheme with the offshore companies with the names behind, and the Minister of Energy himself got $12 million for this. So it's around 10%. And 10% is usually paid for those who help establish the scheme. Right. So where is the 90%? That is the question.
- [45:37]
A
I'm just. I know I've said this before, but I'm amazed that more people from Zelenskyy's government haven't come forward to say this in the west in English. Why is that?
- [45:50]
B
Because people are afraid.
- [45:51]
A
What are they afraid of?
- [45:52]
B
On Netflix there is a movie, a series, how to become a Tyrant. I didn't know about that unless one governmental official came to me and said, I watched that series. It's what's happening in the country. And it was before the war, I mean large scale war. Everyone is afraid. Zelensky has no limits. That's the problem. I am sitting here because I know that he is in a weak point today. And I know that there are a lot of people in his government and in his vertical of power who want peace. And I didn't want to put shit on him. I'm sitting here because I want peace too. And this guy is going to come up with any condition. He's going to change the positions all the time just to prolong this war and to get more money. He doesn't want to have political suicide. Finishing war for him is a political suicide. You see?
- [46:52]
A
I do.
- [46:53]
B
So I'm sitting here having this belief that if he is furiously ordering the people to arrange something against me, maybe in this vertical of power would be people who will not agree now, but even two years ago they would do whatever he want.
- [47:15]
A
What do you think he would do to you for saying this if he could?
- [47:21]
B
Look, I'm risking everything. I cannot return to Ukraine after this interview. Okay? I know people who get threats. A month ago there was a banker in Milan who fell out of the window in Milan?
- [47:42]
A
Yes, Milan. Italy.
- [47:44]
B
Yes, and Italy is investigating it. But there was one guy, a story that nobody paid attention to, who died when Zelensky was traveling to Mr. Biden in September 2023. The guy used to be a governor of my region, Kherson region, where I'm originally from. If you think about the governors, they are usually very rich, local, very successful, strong people who have their people everywhere, have established processes, have a lot of money. It's very strange that he died behind garages by making suicide of poisoning himself. And I talked to one very deep insider in top position in security service and the guy told me this is a very strange death because this guy was negotiating with Russians. He was getting his orders from Yermak, I know, the middle man. And then he was passing some information to Russians when Russians were occupying Kherson and then back. And then when Zelensky travels to Biden, this guy makes suicide behind garages. And security service explains that he had. He had a depression.
- [49:05]
A
He had depression.
- [49:06]
B
Had depression. A rich guy, strong guy, used to be a governor, he had depression and he decided to poison himself behind garages. I mean, this all just doesn't come together.
- [49:20]
A
No, it doesn't. So people who work for Zelensky believe that if they were to criticize him, they could be killed or jailed or jailed.
- [49:29]
B
I told you Just about the member of parliament. But there are also those people who sit there for years, and the courts cannot. The general prosecution cannot prove the guilt that they are accused in. And it's also treason, you know, collaboration with Russia. How do you prove it's for. Yeah, and it's for criticism. It's just, you know, political fight, nothing more.
- [49:54]
A
What are jails like in Ukraine?
- [49:55]
B
Oh, they're awful. Oh, they are awful. A lot of people in one place now. By the way, there was the news that diseases are being spread. It's very cold. The food is terrible. It's a terrible place to be. It's not like in American jail. No, it's a terrible place to be.
- [50:18]
A
So Ukrainians can't speak up for fear of being imprisoned or killed. But why do you think Western media hasn't spoken up here?
- [50:28]
B
I would like to say the thing that the freedom of speech in Ukraine is in bad shape, but I believe that it improved when Donald Trump came to power for the second term because there are more and more news coming up. And despite that, some journalists are also sent to the front lines or attacked still. You know, there are materials that are coming up. And when this freezing winter was happening, terrible winter, when people were freezing their homes without light, without water, the whole revolution on Instagram, Ukrainian Instagram started. And I wanted to tell you two trends, just two of multiple trends that are happening on Instagram right now that will show you that Ukrainians are suffering under Zelensky. They don't support what Zelenskyy is doing. One of the trends is they are burning the books with Zelensky's speeches in their fireplaces or fires, saying, huh, finally we figured out why we needed those. The second thing is very politically incorrect, and I'm very sorry.
- [51:43]
A
You're in a safe place, Dorian.
- [51:44]
B
Okay, I'm very sorry, but I try to describe the desperacy and the dark humor that Ukrainians use. A driver is parking on the parking lot for a place for a disabled person, and another person is coming with a telephone asking, why did you park on the place for a disabled person? And the driver responds. And the driver responds, I'm going to vote for Zelensky for the second time.
- [52:17]
A
You mean mentally disabled? Yes.
- [52:19]
B
So these are trends. This is not like one reel, two reels. These are trends, and they're going viral. And this is the way how people are trying to shout out, we are desperate. Please stop this war. Please stop this nonsense. Please stop this autocracy. There is no reason why to fight this war. It's senseless. You see, people lost all sense of this war. Like, if this war is for NATO or against NATO expansion, then Ukraine has no chances to be in NATO. If Putin conducts this war against Zelensky, then Zelensky is the main beneficiary of this war.
- [53:02]
A
It's true.
- [53:03]
B
If this war is for returning territories, then we have been losing territories for three years. If this war is for democracy, then we have no democracy in the country. Now, people in the frontline regions, they tell terrible things. One person told me, I don't know what we are fighting for. What's the difference between Ukraine and Russia right now? There is autocracy there and autocracy here. There is no anything that would would be democratic now. So what's the fight for? This is not what I am saying. This is what people from different regions are saying.
- [53:38]
A
Yes.
- [53:39]
B
And I believe that Zelensky had two chances of finishing this war in 2022. Two chances. Now he says that 90% of Ukrainians will not forgive him giving up Donbass. Where does he come from with these numbers? Like, there are no such numbers. Realistically, no such numbers. And I was talking to people who represented Ukraine at negotiations in Istanbul in 2022.
- [54:09]
A
Yes, the famous negotiations where they came pretty close.
- [54:12]
B
Oh, they were almost done. Yeah. And I was explained in details that they agreed for everything. And furthermore, which is very important, they said that Zelensky personally agreed to give away Donbass. And I was shocked at that moment. It was a shocking news. And I said, really? Did he? And the guy stole. Of course he is. He is okay with that because he will stop the horror of war. He agreed for giving away the territory because that would mean the war is over. And now he is standing in front of millions of audiences telling, I cannot give away Donbass. You see, he is inconsistent. He is changing the positions all the time. The second time, when he could, and the office of the president planned he would finish the war was the end of 2022. And as I read the New York Times, who actually confirmed my insights, that the Biden administration decided to go with his plan to continue that war. That was Mr. Blinken who was advising, if Ukraine wants to fight, then Ukraine needs to fight. Despite all the evidence that we could not win that.
- [55:33]
A
Of course not.
- [55:37]
B
You know, there is this thing also. Everything that he said against Zelensky is being pro Russian. And now, you know, this Mr. Johnson. Prime Minister Johnson thing.
- [55:48]
A
Boris Johnson.
- [55:49]
B
Yeah. Boris Johnson is a big friend of the land landscape.
- [55:53]
A
He's an evil man.
- [55:56]
B
So Remember Bucha? Bucha is a small town in Kiev region and it was occupied by Russia. And there are a lot of terrible things and terrible deaths happened there. And Zelensky came to Bucha after it was deoccupied on April 4, 2022. And I remember him standing in front of the journalist and he had this, you know, terrible face and terrible, terrible, you know, look. And he was. It. It felt like he. He went through pain while seeing all those bodies there. But he was asked if he was going to continue the negotiations with Russia. And he said, yes, yes, I am going to continue. That's fixed on a camera. He was going to continue. And then, you know, they had all the agreement by positions about Donbass, about language, about many, many things. They agreed upon everything. And then Boris Johnson came. And now it is said that this is Putin's lies. But this story was told by Ukrainians. It was not told by Russians. Ukrainians who were trying to bring peace knew that Boris Johnson influenced the decision. And Zelenskyy was promised to have everything, weapons, influence, fame, you know, and he will fight Russia and he will be a great hero. And that's everything that Zelensky wants. He doesn't care about people. He cares about staying in power. He cares about being the great hero in the history. So I believe there were two. Two moments where he could finish this war, but he chose the war of attrition. I don't know how 25 million of Ukrainians who stay in the country can have war with attrition, with Russia that has the population of 140 million people. With Russia who, by the way, in four years has not even borrowed for this war. And Ukraine has the debt of 100% of GDP with Russia that awaits sanctions, still tries to sell. You know, it's. And Ukraine has no market economy.
- [58:12]
A
I mean, Russia is so much bigger than Ukraine that Ukraine could never win. It's just too big. Russia's too big.
- [58:19]
B
You know, the New York Times wrote a story that was scandalous in 2023, and the title was, Ukraine will need to choose between people and territories. And we are indeed choosing. And our leader is choosing, but it's not.
- [58:31]
A
I mean, look, I'm not an expert at all on Eastern Europe, but I have Wikipedia. I just looked up land mass, population, industrial capacity. You don't need that much information to know this country cannot beat that country in a land war. It was obvious. I don't understand.
- [58:49]
B
I think it's obvious for Zelenskyy too, but he thrives on this war. He thrives on this war. Why would he finish it?
- [58:56]
A
Well, because it's destroying his country.
- [58:59]
B
I don't think he thinks about that in 2024. I was talking to a very smart guy who knows Russia and knows Ukraine very well. He used to be an advisor to the president. He's an American, by the way. And he said me that Zelensky would finish the war till the end of 2024. I said, no, he won't. He said, why? He's losing territories. Russians will go to Dnipropetrovsk, in other regions, Odessa, Kharkiv, Sumy, Chernigev. He names all those regions of Ukraine. And I'm like, this is not the reason for him to stop. And the guy could not understand. Like, he could not. He's like, but why? You're going to lose the territories, you're going to lose more. And I'm saying, this is not how he thinks. He imagines the lives. Like, his thinking is limited with thinking of what he sees of his beautiful golden office, you know? And the guy was like, okay, they are in Zaporizhzha. I'm like, not a reason. Not a reason. They're there, there, there. And then the guy says, okay, there needs to be somewhere point where he will understand that Russians are winning. Maybe when Russians are with the guns in his office. I'm like, yeah, that's where he will understand the.
- [60:19]
A
So it sounds like he doesn't care very much about. About Ukraine.
- [60:21]
B
He never cared. He never cared. He never cared about the people. That's the point. I tried to come up not only with the insights. I think the things that I told you are quite terrible. But this is who he is. But let's just check the facts online, okay? At the Munich Conference, Zelensky insisted that ceasefire is the condition for peace, for negotiations and for elections. He is keeping pushing for ceasefire, again knowing that Russia is against ceasefire. It's like the NATO story, right?
- [60:57]
A
Yes.
- [60:59]
B
If you go online and check his speech for the UN General Assembly, September 2024, he was saying that no ceasefire is possible, that it's very irresponsible to ask Ukraine for a ceasefire that is cease ceasefire, will lead to a frozen conflict. And he was going against a ceasefire all the time. Then, second thing, in June 2024, there was a peace summit where Ukraine presented Zelensky's peace formula. There were 160 delegations coming from different countries. And I truly believe that those delegations wanted to discuss peace. There were discussions about energy security, returning children, and something Else and Switzerland suggested that they invite Russian delegation, maybe even Vladimir Putin. An office of the president was very much against it. And office of the president of Ukraine even organized a media campaign saying that it is absolutely morally impossible to talk to Russia to put Putin we need just to pressure no negotiations with Russia. You see, at the same time when he was presenting the formula of peace, Ukraine was organizing the Kursk region operation. And how do actually you offer the world to have peace and at the same time are planning operation to invade Kursk region. You see, these are very inconsistent things. Then after his just formula where he suggested one things he offered victory plan where he suggested completely different things. Then in November 2024 he said that he would agree for temporary occupation of some territories if another government controlled territory of Ukraine will be included in NATO. Then in several days he said that he was a misinterpreted. I'm telling you so many examples when he has been changing the conditions preconditions to end this war.
- [63:07]
A
Because he doesn't want to end the war.
- [63:09]
B
Because he doesn't want to end this war. I counted with my insights around seven attempts to finish this war where he used different mediators, he used different countries. We promised those mediators, he promised those countries, those leaders that he would start negotiations, that he would agree for conditions. And he always lied.
- [63:31]
A
But it's. I'm not giving him a pass. I'm not making excuses for Zelensky. But Ukraine has got, you know, 100% debt to GDP ratio, limited industrial capacity. Like it can't fight a war without western aid, period. And so it's France, uk, United States that are paying for all this. Why would the western countries want to keep the war going? Obviously they do.
- [64:00]
B
This is a very good question, to be frank. I think that the approach that Donald Trump team offered is a very constructive approach in any way. Ukraine wouldn't survive without aid, but one thing is to plan the investment, right? To boost the businesses, to provide jobs, to pay taxes, to recover economy and to have returnings and another one just to provide the money for the war. And I believe that the governments gave so much money and some of those governments, they just cannot back up now. They cannot say that we gave those money for a dictator because they're afraid about their ratings and their own situation right now. Some of the Europeans were saying, Ukrainians, members of parliament that Ukraine was undermining them because of corruption. Ukrainians are begging, please just open your eyes, help us stop this war. It's not about your ratings, it's about People paying with blood, of course, but
- [65:11]
A
it sounds like that's not going to be possible. As long as the lens Zelensky is there, the war won't end.
- [65:15]
B
I don't believe that he will finish this war. I don't know.
- [65:18]
A
It sounds like it. If there are seven attempts to finish the war and his only position has been the war needs to continue, he's clearly not the guy to end the war. So how do you get Zelensky out?
- [65:31]
B
That's a good question and I'm not the one to answer it.
- [65:34]
A
Well, there are no elections, so.
- [65:35]
B
But we are in a legal trap here. And the last time when he was planning elections, he actually didn't want to leave the martial law and wanted to have one round election so that he can manufacture them. And this is the article on a very reliable Ukrainian media outlet. The journalist talked to insiders from the office and from the parliament. Just another example. Look, there was this Munich security conference and Zelensky assaulted the prime minister of Hungary, Mr. Orban. That's so interesting. Just like I'm saying so many bad things, I feel so bad about that. But just like if you're a rational person, think about this. Yes, the leader of Ukraine standing in front of all the leaders and keeps assaulting one of the European leaders. In a week, this European leader will need to vote for a 90 billion loan for Ukraine. And obviously Orban just blocked everything. And everybody is like pointing fingers to Orban, how bad Orban is. How bad Orban is. Perhaps he is. I'm not justifying Orban here, but if you are a leader of a country, how on earth are you assaulting a person from whom you will need a support of 90 billion of a loan, without which Ukraine just cannot go further?
- [67:00]
A
So that's a great question. And I watch him do the same thing to Donald Trump.
- [67:03]
B
Absolutely. Can I.
- [67:05]
A
So, but what is that?
- [67:06]
B
Yeah, can I finish this moment? The thing is that the conflict that has escalated recently is about a pipeline, oil pipeline. Hungary was getting Russian oil through Ukraine and it's damaged. And Zelensky made this again, performance, huge performance, as if he is a brave hero who is fighting against Russia. Russian oil, Russian gas, all Russian, etc. Etc. At the same time, Ukraine on technical level is repairing the pipeline. The European Commission is insisting that we do it as fast as possible. And Ukraine is sending the explanation to the European Commission. You know, it will take some time, but we are offering you another pipeline so that there is no energy crisis. So the work is there. Right. And Zelensky is just performing something stuff in his hat. And the other important moment in this, do you know that this was France, not Hungary, who bought the biggest number of Russian energy products last year, including Russian lng that it's selling to Germany. So why doesn't Zelensky go against Macron? I don't understand that.
- [68:15]
A
Well, it's a great question. I'm aware of this and Donald Trump camp.
- [68:20]
B
You know, I was watching that thing that, that Oval Office situation. For me, it was so painful. It is so painful every time when I'm posting on my Twitter videos of ruined Ukrainian cities. Every time I have this quote from Zelensky, we've got beautiful cities. Come and see. I'm like, how you can say that these ruins are beautiful cities? The thing is that many people who know Zelensky, they characterize the situation, that this is what's happening behind the camera. Usually. Such hysterical behavior, no control of emotions, this manipulation, attempts to prove himself. This is Zelensky. This is how he looks all the time.
- [69:17]
A
Is he a drug user?
- [69:21]
B
This is an open secret. The thing is that I've never seen him taking drugs. However, for writing my book, I met a lot of people who confirmed that they saw him taking drugs in different clubs. Only one saw him taking drugs. In 2021. I learned who is the supplier from 95th quartile and I met that person.
- [69:49]
A
You met Zelenskyy's drug dealer?
- [69:51]
B
I'm not saying he's a drug dealer. He's a guy from 95th Quartile.
- [69:55]
A
And what's 95th Quartile?
- [69:58]
B
95th Quartile. It's entertaining company of Zelensky. 95th Quartile, where he comes from. It's the guy who, who is an actor and he behaved really in a strange way, his eyes and his behavior. Is Zelensky using cocaine again, I have not seen that. So the thing is that all these people are talking about cocaine. Yes. The second thing is every time when we were preparing the interview, I was reading the notes explaining who is the journalist, what he needs to say, say the messaging, the questions. He does not like reading, to be frank. Usually he's more, you know, like tries to listen to you. And then he takes his, like 15 minutes in the bathroom. And I'm telling you that I was always surprised that he was going out a different person. Like really always a different person.
- [71:02]
A
So you'd be briefing him, then he
- [71:05]
B
goes to the bathroom. He spends there 15 minutes and he's going out energized, full of, you know, action. Ready to say everything.
- [71:15]
A
Sniffing.
- [71:19]
B
So I don't want to say something that I didn't see, but. But I met too many people. I met doctors, I met, you know, people who spend time with him in the clubs. And I talked to the people who has been knowing him for like 20, 25 years,
- [71:39]
A
and they say he's a cocaine.
- [71:41]
B
And also. I don't know if you followed that, but there was an allegation accusation that he's a cocaine user during his electoral campaign. And that's why he invited his opponent, President Poroshenko, at that moment to take analysis on drugs. And he went to the clinics of his friend. And when the analysis was presented, it happened that the analysis was dated by different date. When he gave those analysis. Ah, that was a big scandal. I mean, this is everywhere. The allegation is everywhere. There are many people for a long time. For a long time. Yeah. And you know, there is this very strange behavior of obviously, you know, there are a lot of things that point out to it, but I personally have not seen that.
- [72:29]
A
But you spoke to his cocaine supplier from 95th quartile.
- [72:33]
B
Not for the book. I met him in the office of the President. I didn't know about cocaine back then, but I was very surprised of his behavior. His eyes were sparkling and he was so happy and slow. And he was trying to make some jokes that I didn't understand and was like, this is a strange guy. And I didn't know what he was doing there because he didn't have any position. He just came to the office of the president.
- [73:04]
A
What's Lenski's wife like?
- [73:10]
B
You know, many people who know her respect her. Many people were saying that she was the only human who stayed nearby him. She really didn't want him to go for the second term. She even said this publicly. But I believe she changed. And I don't know if she still has that positive influence on him that she used to have. But Zelenskyy never thought that women are equally important. He is the one who respects his woman, but not as she. If she's like really equal. If it makes sense.
- [73:53]
A
It does.
- [73:54]
B
Once I was in this very weird situation. I was in many weird situations with Zelenskyy. It's just a norm. But there was this situation where there was his friend from 1950, Vartal and Zelensky, we were three of us. I don't know for which reason this guy started telling a very funny to his mind situation that Olena Zelenska was running after Zelensky for eight years to make him marry her. And he. He was a strong guy. He didn't want to marry. Hahaha. It was so funny. Well, definitely Zelensky was smiling a lot and he liked the story. I still don't understand what was funny about that. I think Zelensky is a smart person, but she does not care and doesn't know anything about politics and she doesn't want to be involved. She tried to stay human. I'm not sure what worked out.
- [74:57]
A
When did you leave the country? Ukraine?
- [75:00]
B
I would prefer not to talk about that.
- [75:02]
A
Okay.
- [75:02]
B
I stayed in the country in 2022. We were shelled, by the way, when the Russians were living Bucha, we were shelled. It's just pure luck that he didn't hit the house. We were. My husband went to the front lines. We stayed in 2023, majority of 2024, beginning of 2025. And I had so multiple sources that were saying that Zelensky is not going to finish this war. People are going crazy there. I was going crazy. You're like in the closed cage. You're being shelled and bombed. You can die any moment from Russian drone or Russian missile. At the same time you can't do anything. There are no economic opportunities. There is no freedom of speech. Anything you do can be, you know, treated in a different way. The country is full of bans. Everything is banned. There are strange rules. Like there is this very strange rule that all the. All the cars need to stop at 9am on the roads to listen to. To the hymn. It's just, just. Yeah, like if you drive and then there is 9am and there is Ukrainian hymn, you need to stop it. There are really strange agenda and it looks like surreal. The country, I don't recognize Ukraine anymore.
- [76:30]
A
Everything is banned. What does that mean?
- [76:32]
B
Like he uses bands like. Like there is this culture that he developed, the culture of banning, canceling people. Artists, you know, poets, poets, churches, writers, you know, like anything. He can connect to Russia somehow. Sometimes it doesn't have any connection to Russia. It always makes us weaker sometimes. These are Ukrainians from the past. But yeah, they used to live under like Russian empire or the ussr. There is this whole culture of consciousness. Cancellation. He cancels bloggers, journalists. Not personally, but. But he has this tendency, he has these orders. Like for instance, in late 2023 I learned from the security service that Zelensky collected his guys and told them that they needed to go against critical bloggers. At the end of. At the beginning of 2024, there were like purchase of bloggers, bloggers were called to the security service, having conversations why they did that, why they said that, that they will be accused in being pro Russian. There was a bunch of bloggers that went against the war and they said, we don't need the borders of 1991, we want to stop this war. And all of them were called for a security service. One guy needed to leave the country. He was threatened. You know, every story can become a bigger story. Can become a story with security service, you see, can become a story of a treason. By the way, the cases of treason rised multiple times in, in four years, multiple times. Treason is just another punishment.
- [78:16]
A
You see, he sounds like a Bolshevik.
- [78:20]
B
In many ways it feels like it's the USSR that we read about. In many ways it is.
- [78:27]
A
So just to restate the question, is there any way to get rid of Zelenskyy?
- [78:33]
B
That's a good thing. You know the problem, how to do this in legal way and who is going to be next? Who's going to be, who's going to fight with Zelensky on the electoral field and how to restore the electoral field in general, you see?
- [78:54]
A
Yes.
- [78:55]
B
And there are so many questions there that are not being solved at all. And I'm not sure he wants to solve them. So one big question to all the Ukrainians and Westerners who have resources, who have the power, who are strong enough, is actually how to make it in a legal field, how to finish this.
- [79:17]
A
Yes.
- [79:18]
B
And that's the answer to your question, why are Ukrainians silent? Rich people are afraid of being sanctioned. By the way, it's also a legal instrument that Zelenskyy uses. He sanctions his own citizens and it's absolutely anti constitutional and people are, how
- [79:34]
A
can you sanction your own citizens?
- [79:36]
B
Yes, he, he uses. He sanctions his own citizens. That's pretty public. And in on his website for, for, I don't know, he comes up with the reasons working for Russia or whatever.
- [79:49]
A
And what happens when you're sanctioned?
- [79:52]
B
Your businesses can be closed, your accounts frozen. The former president is sanctioned. So he says he cannot use his money anymore.
- [80:04]
A
So just to go back to something you said earlier that I should have followed up on when you were working for Zelensky, he told Putin, I think you said it was 2019, that Ukraine would not join NATO. Then you fast forward a couple of years, three years, and he's telling the world that Ukraine does plan to join NATO, which you said is impossible. But what do you think changed his mind? What changed?
- [80:35]
B
Well, I definitely know that he wanted to influence the American administration He really
- [80:43]
A
did want and influence the American administration. In what way?
- [80:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, he wanted to get something. He wanted to get some support, friendship, you know, to get something. I remember the interview, I remember whom that interview was given when he first said, why are we not in NATO? So it was a TV interview and I was preparing messages. It has never been in messages. We never discussed that actually. It was not at the table at all. And he was sitting there and the journalist asked him, so what would you tell or ask Biden about? And he said, why are not we in nature? And I started like looking at the messages and there is no this NATO thing. He just came up with that. And Zelensky is the kind of person, if you applaud, he's gonna continue. And there were a lot of nationalists who applauded, who felt, oh, that's great stuff guy, do it. And so he saw the applause, he saw the reaction. And since his ratings were dropping down, you know, and there was positive feedback, he just started pushing through this agenda. You know, again, I read the book about Biden and there was the description of the meeting in 2021, that was after I left few months and it happened that Zelensky insisted on this NATO issue from Biden thinking that that was only Biden who was the obstacle to this. And if Biden said then they will be NATO, he didn't want to listen to any arguments, any facts, nothing. And then when Biden said, look, there is no consensus for this, the guy said, but NATO is outdated organization and it gonna fall apart. Germany and France are going to leave NATO now. And as the journalist explains, even those who really liked Zelensky, they were blown up by this. They, they thought he went too far. But this is, you know, this is who is Zelensky? He's always escalating, he's always demanding, he's always proving himself. You know, I was talking to one guy who used to work under two or three presidents and he said me that he's telling everyone that these two guys, Zelensky and Earmark, they are just six year olds. He meant because they were six years in power, now they are seven year olds. And I myself was thinking that they behave more as teenagers, but we never had argument that they behave as adults, you see. So I believe that Zelensky, if that journalist who wasn't inside at the White House says that Zelensky thought Biden was weak. I believe Zelensky thought Biden is weak and he can pressure and get the NATO thing because Zelensky actually Doesn't have much understanding of how things are working in his own government. And globally, why are there so many
- [83:43]
A
Americans always in Ukraine? Always Americans in Ukraine. American officials are always talking about Ukraine. No offense to Ukraine, but it's a very small country. It's a very big world. But the US government was very focused on Ukraine for a long time. There were always journalists in and out of there, think tank people in their US military. What was that?
- [84:02]
B
Well, I think we are lucky that there are journalists there. But it's a small country, you say, but it's comparatively big.
- [84:11]
A
It's a large landmass for sure. But so is Kazakhstan.
- [84:14]
B
Oh yeah. But in Europe, it's like the second biggest country in Europe.
- [84:18]
A
Well, if you don't count Russia, it's the biggest. And so I don't. I've never understood.
- [84:23]
B
You should ask Americans why they.
- [84:25]
A
Well, I've never understood it. I mean, I think money laundering was part of it for sure. I think Americans, I mean, the former president's son was on the board of a Ukrainian energy company. I never did. You know that.
- [84:37]
B
You know that I was a co author of that very famous article about Hunter Biden. And after that Biden's administration didn't give interview to the New York Times. And I think that was a very infant behavior from the communications people. I was just a freelancer in Ukraine. If for six years after that. The biggest Democratic president doesn't provide interview to the biggest democratic media because of some freelancer, you know, having evidence of, you know, some connected topics. That's really ridiculous.
- [85:08]
A
I remember that piece. I was with Ken Vogel, I think, and Eula Mandel. Yep. Who's you? So for the, for whatever it's worth, for those who don't remember the piece, can you just summarize it, tell us what it was about, what it said?
- [85:21]
B
It was long ago. But yeah, Hunter Biden was invited to be on board of energy company that was owned by big oligarch who is accused in money laundering. And you know, big, big guy, really mafia guy. And there was a general Prosecutor who opened 11 criminal proceedings against this company. And Hunter Biden figured somewhere that he was, he was somewhere there. But I was talking to general prosecutor and he told me that he reopened the cases but he could not prosecute Hunter Biden because Hunter Biden is an American and as Ukraine we just cannot do that. But that was the whole story about, you know, that Hunter Biden was on the board and obviously it was not liked by Biden administration very much. And there was a Huge scandal. And I did just my job. You know, I talked to the general prosecutor. I. I went to two different people. I asked the questions, I read and translated the law. You know, I verified the information. I mean, Ken was doing major job. I was helping him. And the New York Times stands for that piece. So why should I be, you know, feeling bad about that?
- [86:44]
A
I don't think you should be at all.
- [86:46]
B
Yeah.
- [86:46]
A
What was your reaction from the Zelensky government to you when that piece came out?
- [86:50]
B
Oh, first of all, that was the transition moment.
- [86:53]
A
Yeah, I bet. I'm sure it was.
- [86:58]
B
So he never actually reacted much. It served more like a concern for him. He didn't understand much what was happening. He just asked what was the buzz about. His people asked me. I said, well, that was this piece. You know, I checked it. The New York Times stands for that. That's it. So they had just the concern what was. What was happening. But it was 2019 before Biden came to power, Right? To be frank, yeah. I know that for Americans, it's a big story about corruption. For me, as a Ukrainian, I still cannot understand what would have happened that Biden administration would allow Zelensky to continue this war.
- [87:42]
A
I agree.
- [87:44]
B
It's just like it's very hard to talk because you don't understand what's happening happening really when people are being hunted by drones, when people wake up to death and destruction, when are they being abandoned, when they are being searched by law enforcement of their own country, when they don't have heat or light or water, when they have no almost money and they have no help and they're not heard and they cannot leave their country. It's such a trap. And this has been happening for four years of a large scale and for many for 12 years. And the only solution that is being presented today is just to say that Putin is a monster. Well, maybe he is. His army is doing terrible things. But here is the point. Keeping just offending Putin. We're reach nothing. And my point is we need to do something as the country, we need to do something to start taking the decisions. We need to start putting people first. And what I see from Zelensky is just, yes, I'm taking care about the people. Yes, people are first and then always. There is. But. And after this. But there is the whole bunch of misleading information. I don't believe that President Zelensky is really very constructive, let's say. So I believe he has some kind of mental challenges. And so when I'm thinking about his meeting with Biden, who has been proved by Alex Thompson and Jake Tapper had really already mental problems. I'm thinking where did this world come to that there is one person leader with mental challenges and another person with mental challenges actually deciding on the fate of the 40 million nation or 37 million nation. You see, I just don't believe that Ukraine is just being destroyed. I believe that Ukraine is on the verge of acceptance extinction. We have huge brain drain, enormous problems with the demography. We. Do you know that that was the Ukrainian who actually made the program to send the first person to space, Yuri Gagarin. Now children in Kharkiv region in the fourth grade cannot read. You see, my nation is being deteriorated.
- [90:28]
A
Yes.
- [90:29]
B
So there is no but in this case people either go first or they go first. And then, but, but, but, but, but a lot of conditions. Why not to stop this wall. And you ask me why all those think tankers and journalists come to Ukraine. I think they come to every country and they were interested in the relations with Russia. But unfortunately there is this, I think absolutely destructive contribution to very unhealthy nationalism that has become a shield for the beneficiary group in the country.
- [91:06]
A
Of course, that's of course happens every time. I just know a lot of the policymakers in the United States who promoted this war and I think that some of them wanted to destroy Ukraine. I think that.
- [91:19]
B
I'm sorry, it's very inhuman, the propaganda that we hear. It's, it's very inhuman. It's very cynical. I mentioned to you this stuff about Russia is collapsing. This is like already a Twitter joke. Russia is collapsing for the fourth year in a row. Mark Ruto said few weeks ago that Russia in super bad shape, you need like three, four months of war more to win. Where does he come from that? Tell this a Ukrainian who is dying. Tell this to the man who buried her son or a child. Tell this to a father who lost three children and wife under shelling. It's impossible to explain to the people how politicians come up with the conditions to justify this absolutely unjustified war.
- [92:08]
A
Because it's not their country and they don't care. It's evil. I couldn't agree more.
- [92:12]
B
Many Ukrainians believe this already. Many Ukrainians, well, and again they're correct. I'm not justifying Putin here.
- [92:18]
A
Okay, I agree.
- [92:20]
B
It's just like repeating that he is a monster doesn't help the situation.
- [92:24]
A
No, I agree. It's like telling us that Iran's going to get a nuclear weapon in three weeks. You know, telling us that for 25 years. At a certain point, I don't believe you. So you have asked to end with a message to the Russians, to Vladimir Putin, Russian president, in Russian. And, of course, I can't understand Russian, so. But you've done us, I think, us, the United States, a great service by this interview. And so I would be happy to turn it over to you to speak directly in Russian to the Russian president.
- [92:58]
B
Thank you.
- [92:59]
A
Of course.
- [93:00]
B
It's actually quite a moving moment. Shall I Look there?
- [93:05]
A
Look there.
- [95:50]
B
Posted video. I don't know if he will hear me. It's. You know, I'm actually grateful that I didn't cry so much. I usually cry so much when I'm talking about the war.
- [97:57]
A
Well, I appreciate everything you've done, and I hope this is widely seen.
- [98:02]
B
Well, thank you very much for giving me the platform and for allowing to have this frank conversation. I feel like I took a lot from myself and that my silence could be a contribution to this war. But now I feel like I did something real and good. Thank you.
- [98:19]
A
I think you did. Thanks very much.
- [98:20]
B
Thank you.