S3:EP 5 - Paradise Lost

Summary

The Turning - Seasons 1, 2 & 3
Episode: S3:EP 5 - Paradise Lost
Release Date: July 22, 2025

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Introduction

The Turning delves deep into the harrowing experiences of Lindsay Tornambe, who at the tender age of 13, was selected to serve as one of the youngest Maidens in the River Road Fellowship, a cult based in rural Minnesota. This episode, titled "Paradise Lost," explores the intricate dynamics within the cult, Lindsay's evolving relationship with its leader Victor, and the pivotal moments that ultimately led to her escape.

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Early Life and Adjustment as a Maiden

Lindsay's early years in the cult were marked by a veneer of normalcy amidst an oppressive environment. She reminisces about the serene lake near their compound, describing its beauty and tranquility:

"It reminded me of glass, especially when it was so still... It was a very beautiful, peaceful place." ([02:48] Lindsay)

However, as Lindsay transitioned into her role as a Maiden, the facade began to crumble. The initial fear and loneliness gradually gave way to a complex mix of emotions towards Victor and the cult's doctrines.

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The Symbolism of Paradise Lost

Victor introduced the Maidens to John Milton's Paradise Lost, an epic poem that became a cornerstone of their indoctrination:

"Paradise Lost is kind of. It's a book about the fall of Adam and Eve and how our world became cursed." ([06:02] Lindsay)

Victor leveraged the poem's themes to reinforce his control, urging the Maidens to envision their own version of paradise—a personal utopia on another planet they could design. This ideal was used to cement their dedication:

"Look at how great this paradise is. If you fall from grace, you'll miss out." ([06:21] Alin Lance Lesser)

Lindsay and her peers shared their visions of paradise, fostering a sense of unity and shared purpose:

"I wanted my heaven to look like a huge tree house... connecting all to one another with monkeys and flowers and streams and waterfalls." ([07:17] Lindsay)

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Evolving Relationships and Internal Dynamics

As years passed, Lindsay began to see Victor in a different light. Moments of camaraderie, such as late nights at the pottery shop and shared musical sessions, allowed her to develop genuine bonds with fellow Maidens:

"The bond that the maidens shared, it was deep, it was real. It was beautiful what we had in the midst of such horrific circumstances." ([13:35] Lindsay)

Despite these positive interactions, Victor's control remained pervasive. The Maidens were expected to report on one another, and any deviation from his expectations was met with reprimand:

"I remember getting yelled at for waking up late." ([09:54] Erica Lance)

Lindsay served as a creative outlet within the cult, handling music and songwriting, which provided her with a semblance of individuality amidst oppression.

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Victor's Abuse and Psychological Manipulation

Victor's authoritarian rule was characterized by both spiritual and physical abuse. The Maidens were coerced into sexual relationships under the guise of divine duty:

"Victor had sex with them. The pearl of River Road Fellowship." ([34:05] Alin Lance Lesser)

Lindsay recounts the internal conflict and conditioning that made it difficult to resist Victor's advances:

"I eventually thought I did love him, like truly loved him and would do anything for him." ([15:45] Lindsay)

This manipulation was deeply entwined with their religious beliefs, making escape seem both spiritually and emotionally daunting.

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Cracks in the Fellowship and Rising Dissent

The first significant crack appeared when a woman from River Road reported Victor's coercion to the police, revealing his extramarital affairs:

"Victor had sex with some of the married women in the group." ([34:54] Alin Lance Lesser)

Victor's response was to use religious justifications to absolve his actions, reinforcing his godlike status within the cult:

"Everything was the blood of the lamb covers it all the way." ([35:40] Lindsay)

This revelation sowed seeds of doubt among the Maidens, culminating in Jess's courageous decision to leave the cult in 2008, a move that profoundly impacted Lindsay:

"I wanted to get married and have a life of my own." ([31:25] Lindsay)

Lindsay's reaction was a mix of anger and fear, intensifying her sense of entrapment and commitment to the cult's promised paradise.

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Lindsay's Journey Towards Escape

Lindsay's visit to Brazil in 2009 marked a turning point. Exposure to the outside world ignited a realization that life beyond River Road was possible:

"Being in Brazil and basically seeing people live their normal lives was so eye-opening." ([43:53] Lindsay)

Upon returning to Washington State with the remaining Maidens, Lindsay found herself grappling with the cult's evolving dynamics and her own desires for autonomy.

A pivotal moment occurred during a casual evening watching March of the Penguins, where Lindsay voiced her dissent:

"I didn't really agree with Victor sleeping with some of the married women... I felt like I wanted to move on from the maidens and get married someday." ([46:59] Lindsay)

Despite attempts by Victor's right-hand woman, Jan, to persuade her to stay, Lindsay's resolve remained unshaken. The culmination of these experiences led her to make the life-altering decision to leave River Road in 2010, after a decade of servitude:

"In 2010, after 10 years as a maiden, I was leaving." ([49:35] Lindsay)

Her departure was fraught with fear and uncertainty, symbolizing the end of her captivity and the beginning of her quest for freedom.

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Reflections and Closing Thoughts

Paradise Lost not only narrates Lindsay's personal struggle but also serves as a broader commentary on the seductive nature of cults and the psychological chains that bind individuals. The episode intricately weaves literary symbolism with real-life trauma, illustrating how indoctrination and manipulation can distort one's perception of love, faith, and self-worth.

Lindsay's story is a testament to human resilience and the arduous journey towards reclaiming one's identity and autonomy from the shadows of manipulation and abuse.

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Notable Quotes

• "Paradise Lost is kind of. It's a book about the fall of Adam and Eve and how our world became cursed." — Lindsay (06:02)

• "Look at how great this paradise is. If you fall from grace, you'll miss out." — Alin Lance Lesser (06:21)

• "I eventually thought I did love him, like truly loved him and would do anything for him." — Lindsay (15:45)

• "Everything was the blood of the lamb covers it all the way." — Lindsay (35:40)

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Conclusion

The Turning masterfully captures the complex interplay of power, faith, and personal agency within a cult environment. Episode 5, "Paradise Lost," serves as a poignant exploration of Lindsay Tornambe's descent into and eventual escape from the River Road Fellowship, offering listeners a profound insight into the challenges of breaking free from psychological captivity.

Transcript

[Alin Lance Lesser]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Lindsay]

Place for a filet of fish, but breakfast is for sausage biscuits McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Tell me more about what the lake looked like.

[Lindsay]

It reminded me of glass, especially when it was so still. Now, I never went from one side to the other just because we weren't allowed. But before I became a maiden, there was a floating dock out there, and I went swimming from the floating dock. And we would jump off and see who could grab the most sludge from the bottom and bring it up, as kids do. I remember sitting at Alamoth and there were decks. We were right up against the lake, and I'd go out there in the morning sometimes, and the lake would just look like glass. Sometimes you'd hear a beaver slap his tail, or you'd see ducks swimming. You'd see all the mist rising up with the sunrise coming up over it. And then you'd hear the loon call. It was a very beautiful, peaceful place.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Sounds like it.

[Lindsay]

During the winter, it would completely freeze over. So it was just this huge, vast snow and ice. And then come springtime, you'd start to hear the ice breaking up and this cracking sound, almost like trees falling, that would get really loud. It would just echo through all the trees. As you know, the winters in Minnesota can be freezing. So I loved it. When I could hear the ice starting to crack and you could see everything was melting. You knew spring was right around the corner.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

At first, adjusting to being a maiden was a scary, lonely prospect, filled with shame and fear. But as the years blew by, Lindsay started feeling differently about it, and she started feeling differently about Victor. It's hard to imagine how that shift would happen. But then I think about how people have this ability to adapt and cope, to find the light in the corners of a dark room, and how after years of sinking into that darkness, you might appreciate those folds of light. When Lindsay was a teenager, Victor had the maidens read Paradise Lost, John Milton's epic poem about Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. It's kind of surprising in that the story actually follows Satan as the protagonist. The story often unfolds through his eyes, and basically Satan comes up with a scheme to tempt Adam and Eve into sin. Satan convinces Eve to eat fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is forbidden. Then God banishes them from their paradise.

[Lindsay]

Paradise Lost is kind of. It's a book about the fall of Adam and Eve and how our world became cursed. It was like just weeks of us going to the carriage house and we'd make food and a fire and we'd play music and we'd read the book.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Paradise Lost is this mysterious book. It's full of hidden meaning, but Victor used it in a very literal way. His point was simple. Look at how great this paradise is. If you fall from grace, you'll miss out. He asked the maidens to imagine their own version of paradise and pushed that fantastical promise one day they'd get their own planet, a place they could design themselves.

[Lindsay]

So, you know, we were all talking about what we wanted them to look like and how Victor would be able to come visit all of us and how great it would be because of our dedication to end this life to him and to the church.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

What did you imagine your little heaven would be like? Or what would be there? How would you spend your time there?

[Lindsay]

Oh, gosh. I wanted my heaven to look like a huge tree house, but, like, I wanted it to be in the jungle. And I wanted to, you know, the. If you're trying to get from one cliff to another and they have those swinging bridges, tons of those, through the trees, and just tree houses connecting all to one another with monkeys and flowers and streams and waterfalls. That's kind of how I pictured my heaven looking like.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

That sounds like a fun place to be.

[Lindsay]

Yeah. He talked about how we'd be able to basically just fly on over to each other's. Almost like stars. We'd just be able to fly over to one another and visit each other. And it was definitely a season of, for me at least, coming together and really bonding with the maidens. And sometimes a lot of fun, lots of laughs. And I remember in those times thinking, like, gosh, like, how lucky am I out of all the people in the church that he's spending time with? The ten of us.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Lindsay remembers when she was assigned to light the lantern on the bridge by the pond, the one they kept lit so Jesus could find them when he returned to bring them to heaven.

[Lindsay]

I remember thinking that lighting the lantern one night with one of the maidens walking up, like, can you believe? Out of all the people in the entire world, like, we are the ones. Out of all the girls. And I remember saying, do you think that there's life on another planet? And maybe they have their own set of maidens over there? Like, what would they be called? You know, like, just thinking maybe there was another pocket on somewhere else, like, way across the universe. Ten girls who were dedicated to living their life for Christ. And I was like, I'll still be 80 years old, walking with my cane through the snow to light the lantern.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Sometimes Lindsay felt like she was in the Garden of Eden. And she could stay in that garden forever. All she had to do was resist eating the apple. For Rococo Punch and I Heart podcasts. This is the Turning river Road. I'm Aen Lance Lesser.

[Erica Lance]

And I'm Erica Lance. Part 5 Paradise Lost in the past, Lindsay got in trouble for all kinds of things. Like when Victor thought she smiled too much and took her instruments away for a week. Sometimes it felt like no one had her back. The maidens reported on each other, and she even got yelled at for waking up late. But over time, Lindsay grew more at home with the maidens. Especially when River Road decided to sell the Shepherd's Camp, their headquarters. Selling the camp made them millions of dollars, which gave them a financial boost. Victor moved the maidens to a farmhouse at Maiden Love, River Road's dairy farm. This meant they saw less of Victoria away from Victor and the Shepherd's Camp. Lindsay didn't feel so watched. The space allowed the maidens to find each other. River Road had this little pottery business where the maidens would make dinnerware and cups and mugs and vases and wine coolers and even sinks. Everyone had a role, like one maiden who was really good at glazing, one maiden really good at carving. Then some of the adults in the fellowship would take the pottery and sell it at shows and pop up shops. Lindsay loved it. Late nights at the shop with the maidens singing while they worked. And when they were done, they crawled into bed at the farmhouse.

[Lindsay]

The walls slanted down where the beds were, so you know, if you sat up straight, you may hit your head. We'd lay awake in bed and I was coming up with tons of different stories, little funny stories to make them laugh, because there was so much hardness to our life. In some ways, it's sweet that you.

[Erica Lance]

Were telling them stories. When you're one of the two youngest. You'd think that it would be like the oldest maiden telling stories to the younger girls or something. That seems like the real Lindsay coming out.

[Lindsay]

Yeah, those years I started blossoming more. I mean, I still got reproved all the time and yelled at, but there were moments of, I think, the real me trying to come out and shine.

[Erica Lance]

Lindsay was growing up, moving from middle school awkwardness to a teenager with ideas and creativity to share. And the maidens were growing, too. Instead of being pitted against each other, they were becoming true sisters to each other. They were Lindsay's family now. She went by Liryre, the name Victor gave her when he put her in charge of the music. And she flourished in the role Victor gave her a tiny Panasonic tape recorder she could use for her songwriting. And once the Maidens worked up the songs, they recorded them for real and mixed them and made CDs for the fellowship.

[Lindsay]

Lisa and Anna did some harmonies. Sometimes Nicole would do some harmonies. If you hear the flute, that was Nikki. Katrina did the drums. Sarah played the bass. He's there for you holding your hand.

[Erica Lance]

He'Ll see you all through.

[Lindsay]

The bond that the maiden shared, it was deep, it was real. It was beautiful what we had in the midst of such horrific circumstances.

[Erica Lance]

In Lindsay's mind, Those were beautiful years. 2005, 2006, 2007. Even Victor seemed more at rest.

[Lindsay]

And he had a baby grand piano there. And we would just sit there and play music. And I remember figuring out on my guitar and just how happy he would be. He'd be so happy and praising you. And when he smiled, he had those smile lines. And it would just make you feel warm and really good and that you were doing really well. He was very like, playful in some way, wanting to hear your thoughts and your ideas. And when he wasn't around, I would miss that feeling of the praise and almost feeling like I was finally being heard and valued in a way.

[Erica Lance]

Often a couple of maidens walked Victor to where he slept at the end of the night. Then they'd return with a request. One maiden would be asked to return to Victor alone.

[Lindsay]

And we all knew what was going on. Nobody talked about it. But when somebody would come back and say, oh, you know, Victor wants to see you and it's 11 at night or something, you knew what was going to happen. And how often it happened honestly depended on how Victor thought you were doing at the time, spiritually, maybe how you looked physically. So it could happen as much as, gosh, seven, ten times a month to maybe once a month, you know, depending on how you were feeling for 10 years.

[Erica Lance]

Lindsay says Victor's right hand woman, Jan, gave the Maidens two books both about relationships and sexual. One of them included graphic how to instructions on sexual positions and how to please your partner. Lindsay thinks Victor wanted them to have these.

[Lindsay]

I was still very awkward with him. And it got easier over time. That first time was so hard and definitely the ones after that, but they got easier and it wasn't, you know, physically it didn't hurt as much. I think having that mindset of, you know, it's God's love for me, it was, it's like hard to say because it's so sickening, you know, And I think I Don't know when it was withheld or when you knew, like he wasn't happy with you or you could tell he was giving other maidens special attention. It made me feel really bad about myself of what I was doing wrong and why I wasn't being picked more. Or was God upset with me for something? And then being with him in that way, it felt like God did love me. Like he was showing his love through Victor towards me. I would say in the beginning it wasn't something that I craved. It wasn't like, oh gosh, I hope he chooses me tonight for me to feel fully comfortable and even like comfortable with my body. It took years later on, it definitely almost became a privilege to take care of him in that way. Makes me feel really awful to say because it's really hard, you know, like thinking back on those years, like why, I mean, why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor. There was a season where I was assigned to take care of Victor, like wake him up in the morning and make him breakfast, help him organize his day. And I think I was on that duty for about 10 months. And I remember hardly getting in trouble during that time. I remember just being almost like so grateful to him that he would choose me to have this time with him and to get to even like know him better, to be able to work in, in the cabin with him in this intimate setting. I eventually thought I did love him, like truly loved him and would do anything for him.

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[Alin Lance Lesser]

In her teens, Lindsay actually felt she was in love with Victor, and she has a record of this dynamic. She wrote about her love for Victor in a series of letters to him. The pages and pages she shared with us span years of her life, starting at age 15. She wrote in pencil on simple lined notebook paper, the kind you'd see in school. As I look through the letters now, I can't help but notice how much Lindsay seems like she's trying to prove her love to Victor, like she's desperate to have him believe her. On one hand, she's writing these letters out of fear. By this point, she's been conditioned to behave and say things to avoid Victor's angry side. On the other hand, Lindsay has genuine feelings of warmth and admiration for him. That's something that's really common for kids who are being sexually abused. They often feel intense affection toward the perpetrator. They might even be convinced they're in love. Then later in life when they look back, it can be hard to make sense of. The letters Lindsay wrote are filled with religious language. She talks about her relationship with Jesus Christ, getting ready for his return. But they also feel like love letters, the over the top, mushy type of writing you'd expect from two teenagers who just fell in love. And that's what Victor said their relationship was. He said he was her first love. In one letter she writes, quote, thank you for all the times you loved me when I wasn't even worth loving. You've been a father, mother and brother, a teacher, a shepherd, a friend, a covering, a watcher, someone who's ready to listen, the lover of my soul, a leader, somebody who's not afraid to reprove and encourage and correct. Forgiving, showing mercy and grace, not the height, depth, length or breadth could contain all the love that you have poured of yourself into me. In the same letter, she says she's cried so much her shirt is soaked, her eyes bloodshot, with a pile of tissues next to her. Then she crosses out the word pile and writes mountain. She says the tears come from thankfulness and love for him. She Signs the letter hidden in this love with you, Lyra. The name Victor had given her at the bottom of the page. It looks like she's been practicing writing her new name and his too. She writes, you're Lyra. You're Lyra. Lyra. And Victor's name four times. Like what a school aged kid would doodle about her childhood crush. Sometimes when she was reproved a lot, she says she would seek out sex with him. She wanted him to pick her for the night. She wanted to feel desired, to get rid of the worthlessness and ugliness. She felt she might write, something is on my heart that I want to talk to you about if you have time to. Fellowship. Fellowship. Because she didn't want to spell it out, she wrote him once, I love you, I love you, I love you. And underlined the last one. Victor left her messages too. Like, good morning, my dear. Please wake me at 6am in his love. Or a note from Victor on paper printed with sunflowers. To my beloved Lindsay, twined together. My darling Lindsay of 2:1 flesh, the great mystery. I love you, Victor. And Victor recorded himself on that tape recorder, the tool he gave her to encourage her songwriting, the activity she cherished the most.

[Lindsay]

Oh, Lyra, make a joyful noise unto the Lord. God bless you, dear.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

After a night of praying with Victor and the maidens, Lindsay wrote a song before bed.

[Lindsay]

So it goes. Sometimes the days seem so long and my heart starts aching within of missing you of missing you Driving away from your place the tears started rolling down my face from missing you from missing you soon we'll be together forever until then Nothing can sever the cords of love that entwine you and me Always coming back one day until then this is what I'll say that I'm in the fight and in love with you The U is Victor. Part of it makes me sick reading that, trying to think of how. Let's see, this was in 2004, so I would have been 17.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

And why do you think you wrote that? Do you think you felt that way at the time? Or that you were trying to appease him or a bit of both.

[Lindsay]

I think at the time I definitely felt that way. I mean, it's crazy. You hear about this stuff in like domestic violence situations where people get so conditioned to living that way and then the person will abuse them and then they'll leave and then they'll say, no, but I really love you and I won't do that again and blah, blah, blah, and they'll go back and it's this revolving door. And I think I had been so conditioned at that time to want his love so badly and want to be in good graces with him. Because I felt like that's how I was going to get to heaven. The heaven in my mind wasn't about God. It was all about being with Victor for all eternity. Which just shows me now how screwed up that totally is that Victor made himself free to be this godlike figure.

[Erica Lance]

Lindsay was finally at peace with her life and the way it had been planned for her. But her best friend Jess, felt something else. Jess, the youngest maiden with red hair and a giant smile, the one person Lindsay could be herself with. Lindsay didn't know it, but Jess was ill at ease. We didn't get to interview Jess, but we do have some recordings that were made of her later on. They're a little grainy and hard to hear, but she explains what happened. You can feel the dread in her.

[Lindsay]

Voice at that point. I was 19 years old and extremely uncomfortable living the way we were and Victor and stuff. I didn't want to be.

[Erica Lance]

Jess is talking about how uncomfortable she was living there at 19 and that she didn't want to be a maiden with Victor anymore.

[Lindsay]

I didn't want to be with Victor.

[Erica Lance]

Jess had actually tried to escape once. Years before, back when she was middle school aged. She ran into the woods behind the Shepherd's Camp. She thought she'd walk until she hit Pokala Road and get to Finlayson to find a phone. But once she was in the woods, she got scared. Then Victor found her. He yelled at her to come back. And for some reason, she did. She turned around and walked back to him and he grabbed her by the hair and dragged her inside. She never tried to escape, escape again. But Years later, in 2008, Jess couldn't take it anymore. She was 19 years old and had been a maiden for seven years. Victor said, I'm going to ask you one more time. Is this what you want to do? Here's one last chance to leave. And Jess finally got up the courage to say, yes, I want to leave. She was the only maiden who did. She said she wanted a family of her own.

[Lindsay]

I wanted to get married and have a life of my own.

[Erica Lance]

And so she did, because that's the trick with cults. Most of the time, you can leave. You do have a choice. The point is that you're made to feel that you don't. And Jess had reached the point where she couldn't take it anymore. Jess would leave the maidens but not the fellowship. She told Victor she'd get married instead. The one other path a young woman in River Road could take. So Victor planned it all down to the man she would be with. Jess says it was almost like an arranged marriage. She says the guy Victor chose was strict and loyal to him, so he knew he would keep her in line. Victor had told her no hard feelings, but Jess said there were definitely hard feelings. She felt it from Victor and from all of Alamoth, all the maidens.

[Lindsay]

You know, Victor announced to us that she was leaving and that she was going to be getting married. That was the plan. To a young man in the church. And, oh, man, I was so mad at her for leaving.

[Erica Lance]

Lindsay was in shock. Jess wasn't just leaving Victor. Jess was leaving her.

[Lindsay]

Ugh. I remember hating her for it, because in the early years, we had talked about maybe running away. Never knew how we knew we'd get in trouble, somebody would find us. Then we're back right where we started. And I think those memories of us, you know, when we were 12 or 14 and 13, talking about running away, like, just so many memories came back, good ones, bad ones. And I just kept thinking, wow, like, she got out, she did it, she left. And I think I felt so stuck. I didn't know how to get the guts to do something like that. And I was so mad at her. But I was also really happy for her. I thought she would lose her place among the maidens in heaven. And that was a big fear of mine too. And I was like, I am definitely staying a maiden, and I'm going to stay in my commitments.

[Erica Lance]

Seeing Jess leave and all the reactions only made Lindsay cling to her commitments more. She didn't want to lose her status in the next life. The idea of not being with the other maidens in heaven terrified her.

[Lindsay]

But things slowly started just going very differently.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Jess left in 2008, soon after some strange news hit members of Riverroad Fellowship. A woman in Riverroad contacted the police. She said that Victor had coerced her to sleep with him. He told her it was her responsibility as a woman in the church to take care of him sexually. And the woman said she wasn't the only one. She told police Victor met with many of the adult married women privately in his lodge, and on many of those occasions, he had sex with them. Now this secret was out in the open, not just to River Road, but to outsiders. And with the potential for gossip swirling, Victor told the maidens himself. He said he'd had sex with some of the married women in the group.

[Lindsay]

There was just something that didn't sit right with me about him sleeping with the married women. Like it just felt wrong. I think it was because they were married. I was like, ugh, this just does not feel right.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Even though Victor chastised his followers every day, it was the only time Lindsay remembers him saying he'd made a mistake. He said the temptation had been too big. He referenced the Bible to make excuses. He compared what he did to some of King David's transgressions and he likened people coming after him to persecution. Victor came up with a short phrase that became a catch all excuse for his actions that echoed across River Road.

[Lindsay]

Everything was the blood of the lamb covers it all the way. Blood of the lamb covers it all. Which yes, Jesus Christ died for our sins absolutely. But you can't go around and sleep with other men's wives and just think that the blood of the lamb is gonna cover your sins and you not change. Truly repent and change your behavior.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

But Victor didn't just have his followers approval to worry about. The police were in fact and that meant he could face legal trouble because in Minnesota it's a felony for clergy to have sex with people they're guiding spiritually.

[Lindsay]

But he shared it in a way that made you feel bad for him, getting you to think like, oh, woe is me and the burden that's going to be on me and are you ready to stay in your commitments and defend me and defend your faith if things go crazy? And at that time, yes I was. I was totally in, totally committed, ready to take a bullet for him if needed.

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[Erica Lance]

Victor's extramarital affairs was only the first in a series of shifts in River Road Fellowship and in Lindsay's life. Because it was around this time that another legal issue came up. One of the ten maidens was originally from Brazil. She had some visa issues, so she actually had to move back down to Brazil for a while. But maidens couldn't live alone. They always needed a partner. That was the rule. So the rest of the maidens took turns living with her in Brazil until the visa could be sorted. Lindsay was one of the first to volunteer. She would move to Brazil for six months to stay at the maiden's side. Suddenly, Lindsay found herself on a plane to Brazil. Her first trip alone in her life.

[Lindsay]

I remember being so awkward because I brought my guitar with me and I had to carry it on. And people were like saying nice things like, oh, you gonna play something? Oh my gosh. I remember being just so self conscious. People probably thought I was a freak. I just probably had no social skills, really, because I hadn't been around. I mean, back then I would have called them unbelievers, you know, But I hadn't been around people outside of the camp for so long.

[Erica Lance]

When Lindsey got in the plane, she saw something she never had before. Screens on the backs of seats.

[Lindsay]

The last time I flew was, I think, 1997. And now it's 2009. September of 2009. So I sat down and I remember it took me like two hours to decide if I was even gonna watch something. Because I thought for sure Victor would find out it was gonna be on a bill somehow. Or like they would be able to track it. Somebody would tell him. But then I was like, fuck it. And I put these headphones in and started scrolling and found this teenage British movie called Angus Thongs and Perf Perfect Snogging and decided to watch it. I remember like laughing and thinking the boys were cute. And you know, it was like a little teenage rom com, you know. But then part of Me too. Was like, oh, my gosh, I wish I had had a life like this. Wish I was able to go on a first date and wear these kinds of clothes, do my hair in this certain way. I remember finishing the movie and that was it. In case they found out. I was like, I can't do more than one. Like, I will be really in big trouble. I'm just this huge sinner on the plane watching this movie. I remember really liking the movie.

[Erica Lance]

The fear was still there that would hang onto her for years to come. But without Victor's constant supervision, there was nothing standing between Lindsay and the outside world. Once she got to Brazil, information wasn't as restricted.

[Lindsay]

Being in Brazil and basically seeing people live their normal lives Was so eye opening and almost surreal. It was almost like, oh, my gosh, There's a whole nother life out here. People can live outside of. They can't.

[Erica Lance]

When victor came to visit, it had been months. Far longer than she'd ever been away from him since becoming a maiden. She started to feel more distant from him.

[Lindsay]

I do remember being standoffish towards him. I wasn't as full and open as I once was. And I remember I didn't want to end up in a situation where he would have sex with me. And so I made sure that I never made that opportunity available to him.

[Erica Lance]

River road fellowship was beginning to fracture. After the news of Victor's affairs came out, he left. And they started to keep Victor's location secret. Sometimes Lindsay didn't even know where he was. He traveled around, including up north to right by the border of Canada. Minnesota didn't seem like a safe place for the group anymore. So victor decided to move their headquarters from Minnesota to Washington state. They left behind the properties and farms and businesses they'd built up for so many years. Many followers relocated to Washington, including the maidens. The people who didn't move would have to follow him from afar. By the time Lindsay came back from Brazil, her parents had moved home to Pennsylvania. Without even telling her. They'd be loyal to Victor long distance. And instead of flying home to Minnesota, Lindsay went from Brazil to Washington. She joined the other maidens near Spokane. They lived in a house in a regular neighborhood Set a little farther back from the houses on a hill among the trees. To make money, the maidens knocked on doors offering cleaning services. This was a huge shift. After years of avoiding outsiders. Now lindsay spent her days in other people's homes. Something in her mind began to turn.

[Lindsay]

I think it was about three months after being there. Nicole and I were watching March of the Penguins.

[Erica Lance]

Nicole was an older maiden, the one considered the head of them all. She was also the daughter of Jan, Victor's right hand.

[Lindsay]

Neither of us were feeling very well, so we were on the couch in the basement watching March of the Penguins. Morgan Freeman is the voice, which I didn't know him at the time, but it was one of the, like, approved things we could watch.

[Erica Lance]

While watching, Lindsay did something she'd never done before. She turned to the other maiden and said something taboo. She didn't even really plan it. It just spilled out.

[Lindsay]

And I remember looking over at her and telling her that I needed to talk to her about something. And I told her that I didn't really agree with Victor sleeping with some of the married women, and that I felt like I wanted to move on from the maidens and get married someday, have a family of my own and leave. I can't even believe that I got the guts to tell her. I think in my mind, I was like, victor's not here. You know, I wouldn't have the pressure from him to stay.

[Erica Lance]

But Lindsay wasn't really telling the truth when she talked to the other maiden. Victor's affairs were her excuse, one that believers might accept, a strategy to be heard. But it wasn't what really drove her. Brazil, the airplane, the movies, Washington. They all came together and told her something new. She didn't have to stay here. And she knew now she didn't want to.

[Lindsay]

I remember she was surprised the maiden.

[Erica Lance]

Called her mom, Jan, who talked to Lindsay. Jan tried to explain away Victor's actions with the line she'd heard many times before.

[Lindsay]

We all make mistakes. And that Victor made a mistake. And the blood of the lamb covers all sins. And I, you know, would need to forgive him. And that if I did leave, I would be leaving my first love. And somehow, through all of that, I stayed firm. I literally don't know how I did that.

[Erica Lance]

Jan called Victor and put Lindsay on the phone. Lindsay was scared. She started to cry when Victor picked up. He sounded emotional, like maybe he was crying, too. He asked her if she was sure she wanted to do this. He didn't try to convince her to stay like he'd always done in the past, years ago. Lindsay thinks he'd recently experienced so much change. People moving away, Jess leaving the maidens. Maybe this just felt like one more change to him. To this day, Lindsay thinks if she had talked with him in person and not over the phone, Victor would have convinced her to stay. Instead, Lindsay stood fast. She wanted to leave she said Victor told her she had his blessing and his love through it all. They bought her a one way train ticket to her parents home in Pennsylvania. And two days later she was on a train. She had her guitar, her clothes, her letters and notebooks and a stuffed loon, the maiden symbol. In 2010, after 10 years as a maiden, she was leaving.

[Lindsay]

And I remember being so scared, like stepping on the train for the first time, being, I think, overcome with feelings of so much loneliness and feeling really scared. And they had given me this little cell phone and there were, I think one number programmed in there, like my mom's or somebody. And then I had, I think like a Walkman with headphones that I could put CDs in.

[Erica Lance]

Lindsay had just a seat, no space to spread out or sleep over the three day journey. A man was in the seat next to her as she had been trained for years. She avoided his eyes.

[Lindsay]

I just would go to the bathroom and then back to my chair. I just remember being like nervous to look around or to talk to anyone. It was always in the back of my mind, maybe Victor will find out. Like, maybe Victor will know. Because for 10 years and even before then, from 1998, it was like he knew everything that was going with everybody. So I think it definitely wasn't like getting on the train and a sigh of relief at all. It was getting on the train and feeling scared and lonely and nervous and I mean, scared for the future. The unknown.

[Erica Lance]

Years ago, Lindsay had read Paradise Lost with the Maidens, the poem about Adam and Eve. It motivated her to stay, never to leave Victor's side, never to question God's love. When I read Paradise Lost years ago, the thing that struck me was how Satan was depicted. You hear his inner dialogue throughout. And some scholars think Satan is not pure evil in how he's portrayed in the poem, that he's a morally ambiguous, complicated figure. And in a lot of ways he might be the person you side with in this battle between Satan and God. You could argue if God or a God figure isn't leading well, even if heaven is supposedly idyllic, maybe you don't want to be there. Maybe Eve should eat that fruit. Maybe she should gain the knowledge of good and evil. Maybe she should leave the garden's walls. Maybe what is forbidden is the bravest thing to do. When I think of Lindsay on that train, I hear the final lines of Paradise Lost. The final image of the whole epic poem of Adam and Eve. They wipe some tears and the world is all before them. Now they will choose where to go, Milton writes. They walk hand in hand with wandering steps and slow out of the garden and into the the world.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Next time on the Turning.

[Lindsay]

So this started when you were about 13? Then how long did it go on? Till I left when I was 23. Okay, that's a long time.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and I Heart Podcasts. It's written and produced by Erica, Lance and me. Our story editor is Emily Forman, mixing and sound design by James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Our executive producers are John Peratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvell and nikki etor@iheart podcast. You can follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch and you can reach out via email [e-mail] I'm Alin Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.

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[Lindsay]

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