S3:EP 6 - The Choice

Summary

The Turning - Season 3, Episode 6: "The Choice"

Host: iHeartPodcasts and Rococo Punch
Release Date: July 29, 2025

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Introduction

In Season 3, Episode 6 of The Turning, titled "The Choice," listeners delve deep into the harrowing yet inspiring journey of Lindsay Tornambe. At just 13 years old, Lindsay was thrust into the oppressive environment of the River Road Fellowship, a cult led by the manipulative Victor Bernard. This episode chronicles her life within the cult, her eventual escape, and the monumental decision that would not only alter her fate but also dismantle the cult from within.

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Life Within River Road Fellowship

Lindsay's ordeal began when she was sent away to live with the Maidens, a subgroup within the River Road Fellowship, at the tender age of 13. Victor Bernard, the cult leader, orchestrated ritualistic ceremonies that bound Lindsay and other young girls to him both mentally and physically. This prolonged abuse, lasting over a decade, was meticulously hidden from the outside world.

Lindsay (03:01): "Lindsay was 13 years old when she was sent away to live with the Maidens."

Within the cult, Lindsay faced relentless psychological manipulation. Victor emphasized that she always had a choice, a tactic to instill a false sense of autonomy while maintaining his control.

Lindsay (04:07): "Scared because Lindsay knew that her mom still talked with leaders in River Road Fellowship... Even though her parents were followers, the longer Lindsay was away from Victor, the easier it was for her to pull away from the group."

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Return to Normalcy and Adjusting to the Outside World

After leaving the cult at 23, Lindsay returned to her family's home in Pennsylvania. However, reintegrating was anything but smooth. Her siblings had grown older, making the familial atmosphere feel estranged and unfamiliar.

Lindsay (03:04): "For a long time, all she wanted was to go home. Now at 23, she was home, back at her family's house in Pennsylvania. But her family felt like strangers, especially her siblings, who are so much older now. Everything felt strange."

As Lindsay ventured into the outside world, she encountered cultural phenomena she had never been exposed to, such as the Internet and mainstream media. This sudden influx of information was overwhelming and often frightening.

Lindsay (03:23): "I remember learning about Craigslist because I needed a car... I remember watching Dancing with the Stars. When September rolled around, that was the first time I saw images for 9/11."

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Coping Mechanisms and Seeking Connection

In her quest to find belonging and normalcy, Lindsay took up various jobs, including working in a gym cafeteria, as a nanny, and a server. These roles provided her with a semblance of independence but also exposed her to the complexities of social interactions.

Lindsay (06:03): "Lindsay needed a job, so her parents' landlord found her one in the cafeteria of a local gym. And she took other jobs as they came her way."

However, lacking a foundational understanding of trust and personal boundaries, Lindsay engaged in reckless behaviors, believing that pleasing others was the key to acceptance—a mentality ingrained by Victor.

Lindsay (07:35 - 10:19):
"I believed anything anybody told me. Literally, like had no sense of why would they lie to me. I just thought everyone would be telling the truth."
"Because I was like, so gullible. Still am a little to this day."

Her relationships often ended in disappointment and exploitation, further exacerbating her sense of isolation and vulnerability.

Lindsay (09:00 - 10:19):
"The only way to make men happy was to have sex with them... It's just a miracle that I didn't."
"I just need to feel something during those years... It was really high highs, really low lows."

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Recognition of Trauma and Seeking Help

A pivotal moment in Lindsay's journey occurred at a house party with her cousin Kathy, where the reality of her abuse began to surface. It was here that Lindsay was confronted with the painful truth of her experiences.

Lindsay (16:19 - 18:47):
"I started telling them a little bit about what happened... Kathy looked at me and she's like, Lindsay, you were raped... I never thought of that word, never realized that that's what had happened to me."

Realizing the magnitude of her trauma, Lindsay sought solace and validation from her family, only to be met with disbelief and defensiveness.

Lindsay (37:41 - 39:50):
"My sister yelling at me that I was making this up... I remember talking to the cop in Pine County in my bedroom at my parents' house."

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Taking Action: Reporting the Abuse

Determined to seek justice, Lindsay initiated contact with various authorities, including writing to the FBI and public figures. Her relentless pursuit, however, was met with bureaucratic inertia.

Lindsay (25:11 - 26:15):
"I wrote letters to the president. I wrote a letter to Katy Perry because she had grown up religiously. I wrote a letter to the FBI."

Eventually, Lindsay and her friend Jess took the brave step of reporting their experiences to the police, unveiling the sinister activities of Victor Bernard.

Lindsay (26:18 - 27:12):
"I was raped by him. All those years since I was 13... I walked out the door... I was trying to get help and tell my story. And it felt like nobody was believing me."

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Interacting with Authorities and Facing Challenges

Lindsay's interactions with law enforcement revealed a systemic reluctance to act, especially since the abuse did not cross state lines. This legal limitation posed significant hurdles in bringing Victor to justice.

Lindsay (32:53 - 33:32):
"They said because the abuse never crossed state lines, they couldn't do anything... It felt like justice would never happen."

Her frustration was palpable as countless phone calls and follow-ups yielded little progress, deepening her sense of hopelessness.

Lindsay (24:42 - 25:11):
"It felt like we were getting nowhere... It just felt like nobody was believing me."

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Turning Point: Media Involvement

The breakthrough came when an investigative journalist reached out, offering a platform to amplify Lindsay's story. This media attention was the catalyst needed to escalate the case against Victor Bernard.

Lindsay (40:17 - 40:59):
"Somehow he heard about our story and he wanted to know if we'd be willing to talk with him... it's when everything started changing."

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Conclusion: Lindsay's Impact and the Crumbling of River Road Fellowship

Lindsay's unwavering determination and courage in exposing the atrocities of the River Road Fellowship led to an international manhunt for Victor Bernard. Her actions not only sought personal justice but also liberated countless others still ensnared by the cult.

Narrator (32:58 - 33:32):
"Scores of other people were still being abused by him. She changed her name for a while because it reminded her too much of Victor... She thought about joining the military... she started making friends who were in the military, too."

Lindsay's journey from a traumatized cult member to a whistleblower underscores the profound impact one individual's courage can have in dismantling systemic abuse and fostering healing.

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Notable Quotes

• Lindsay on Realizing Her Trauma:
  “I never thought of that word, never realized that that's what had happened to me.” ([16:38])

• Lindsay on Seeking Help:
  “I was trying to get help and tell my story. And it felt like nobody was believing me.” ([37:41])

• Alin Lance Lesser on the Investigation:
  “These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change.” ([14:35])

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Final Thoughts

"The Choice" is a poignant exploration of resilience and the pursuit of justice. Lindsay Tornambe's story is a testament to overcoming unimaginable adversity and the profound difference one person can make in confronting and dismantling systemic evil.

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This summary was crafted based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the essence of Episode 6, "The Choice," offering listeners a comprehensive overview of Lindsay Tornambe's courageous journey.

Transcript

[Alin Lance Lesser]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Dr. Leah Tritate]

If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where Black women, femmes and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support and what happens after. And I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leah Tritate. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Unknown]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

On the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Jeff Perlman]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Unknown]

This technology's already solving so many cases.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeff Perlman]

I'm Jeff Perlman.

[Rick Jervis]

And I'm Rick Jervis. We're journalists and hosts of the podcast Finding Sexy Sweat.

[Jeff Perlman]

At an internship in 1993, we roomed with Reggie Payne, aspiring reporter and rapper who went by Sexy Sweat a couple years ago.

[Rick Jervis]

We set out to find him, but.

[Jeff Perlman]

In 2020 Reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down and he never woke up.

[Unknown]

But then I see my son's not moving.

[Rick Jervis]

So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.

[Jeff Perlman]

Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

It was like I was kept underground for so long and then just spit out. At 23, I call it when I entered the real world, it was a whole other world than what it had been. And so many things had happened.

[Lindsay]

Lindsay was 13 years old when she was sent away to live with the Maidens.

[Unknown]

And.

[Lindsay]

And for a long time, all she wanted was to go home. Now at 23, she was home, back at her family's house in Pennsylvania. But her family felt like strangers, especially her siblings, who are so much older now. Everything felt strange.

[Unknown]

People were teaching me about the Internet, and I remember learning about Craigslist because I needed a car. I looked up the Backstreet Boys because when I had left in 98, they were like what I was listening to. I loved them. My parents had a tv and I remember watching Dancing with the Stars. When September rolled around, that was the first time I saw images for 9 11. I didn't really know what happened in 911 until then. I remember I made a Facebook and my mom telling me that I shouldn't have it. I deleted it because I got really scared again.

[Lindsay]

Scared because Lindsay knew that her mom still talked with leaders in River Road Fellowship. Lindsay may have left the Maidens, but she was still supposed to follow Victor's rules. Her parents still held Fellowship meetings and centered their lives around their profit. They even had a picture of Victor displayed. It was like Victor had followed her there. She was pretty sure her parents still sent Victor money, too, funding his lifestyle and his frequent location changes. Even though her parents were followers, the longer Lindsay was away from Victor, the easier it was for her to pull away from the group.

[Unknown]

I think I talked to Victor once. He asked me if I was being, like, mindful of the hope and the return of Jesus Christ. And of course, I said yes to all those things. And after a while, like, the letter stopped, no more phone calls. I kind of went crazy after a while. Like, not crazy, but I just was like, full force. Like I was ready to experience everything.

[Lindsay]

Victor had emphasized that Lindsay always had a choice, even if his influence wormed its way inside how she thought about everything. Now Lindsay would make a flurry of decisions, some big, some small. And one of those choices would not only change her life, it would change the future of River Road Fellowship and everyone inside. From Rococo Punch and I Heart podcasts, this is the turning River Road. I'm Erica Lance.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

And I'm Alin Lance Lesser. Part six. The Choice.

[Lindsay]

Lindsay needed a job, so her parents landlord found her one in the cafeteria of a local gym. And she took other jobs as they came her way. Nanny server people too.

[Unknown]

They would be like, what, living under a rock? You don't know these cultural references. Because I was so naive about everything and I was so gullible. Still am a little to this day. But back then it was so bad. I was a waitress at this Irish pub. The restaurant manager at one point told me to go to the basement and look for the left handed skillet pans that were down there. And I was down there for like 30 minutes searching for them. I thought he was being serious and came back up and obviously he wasn't. I mean, that's like just a silly example. I believed anything anybody told me. Literally, like had no sense of why would they lie to me. I just thought everyone would be telling the truth.

[Lindsay]

In River Road Fellowship, if you lied, you got in trouble. And Lindsay always trusted anything Victor told her completely.

[Unknown]

Everything was so foreign. And everything I knew was life on a farm. Planting gardens and slaughtering chickens and raising lambs and sewing clothes and I mean, nobody did that stuff where I now lived. It was. I would just tell people, oh, you know, I just lived a very sheltered life and I was homeschooled.

[Lindsay]

Everything Lindsay was learning about the outside world felt so outlandish. The things that actually were outlandish were impossible to identify. Everything felt equally wild to her. Pretty soon Lindsay stopped going to the fellowships her parents held in their home. She started spending more time meeting friends, going on dates, having fun.

[Unknown]

I started playing Ultimate Frisbee. I was in three Ultimate Frisbee leagues at one point. I know, I tell you, I went crazy. I just was like, couldn't get enough of life. I remember I went to my first bar. It was probably that winter and my mom did not want me to go. She was like standing at the counter at the island telling me I shouldn't go. And my dad was like, peggy, like, just let her go. Like, she's going to be fine. What do you think's going to happen? I drank six tequila sunrises in 30 minutes because I was just so happy to be there. And they were going down really well. And I ended up throwing up everywhere. It was so awful. The girl I was with was really kind and I worked with her. She took care of me. I stayed at her house that night. But Basically all of 2011, if anyone invited me to go out to the bars like I was in, and I still held down a job and I started nannying full time. I don't know how I did it all, but any night of the week that somebody wanted to go out, I would be out partying. I did a lot of reckless things. I. Because I was like, so gullible. I still remember the first time when I was at a bar and some guy looked at me and he told me, you were the most beautiful girl in the room. Like, and I can't wait to show you all over Westchester and, like, show you all these places. And I genuinely believed him. Like, I thought he was being so serious. And of course he wasn't. He just wanted to sleep with me. That happened a lot. I ended up in some very terrible situations. And I was still in that mindset. The only way to make men happy was to have sex with them. I think it had been ingrained in me for so long. Even with Victor, when he said that he was going to take away sex from me for not being thin enough, I just was a very willing participant because I thought that the way to get them to like me to want to hang out with me was to sleep with them. I'm surprised. Like, I never did. I just could have ended up in a really bad, you know, being drugged or ended up with an STD or ended up dead. You know, like, it's just a miracle that I didn't.

[Lindsay]

It's like you didn't have a sense of safety practices.

[Unknown]

Yeah, not at all. Some, like, crazy things that I did. I went on this date and the next day I saw him in the parking lot and like, we said hello and gave each other a hug. And I'm walking away and I'm like, I love you. Like, I just blurted it out and I had no idea, like, what love was. I was just. I. People probably thought I was crazy because I had no idea how to act. And he never talked to me again. I don't blame him. This other guy I met on a dating website, and it was around Valentine's Day and I asked for his address and I mailed him $100 bouquet of flowers to his house because I thought, like, I was being nice. Because it was almost all I knew, how to please people. Which is ironic because that's what I got reproved on the most, was people pleasure.

[Lindsay]

Victor used to get mad when he thought Lindsay was trying to please other people, especially if he thought she was giving other men or boys attention. But the no people pleasing rule did not apply when it came to Victor. Lindsay had become an expert at pleasing him and doing anything she could to avoid his anger. Maybe that's where she got these over the top gestures of affection she used in her dating life. Now the same sort of intense attention Victor loved.

[Announcer]

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[Jeff Perlman]

The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perelman and this is Rick Jervis.

[Rick Jervis]

We were interns at the Nashville Tennesse Inn. But the most unforgettable part our roommate Reggie Payne from Oakland, sports editor and.

[Jeff Perlman]

Aspiring rapper and his stage name Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie.

[Rick Jervis]

We searched everywhere but Reggie was gone. In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died.

[Unknown]

I'm like thanking you, but then I see my son's not moving.

[Jeff Perlman]

No headlines, no outrage, just silence.

[Rick Jervis]

So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.

[Jeff Perlman]

Listen to finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

A foot washed up. A shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change.

[Unknown]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Jeff Perlman]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you.

Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

The first night was overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you, and we didn't know what to expect. In the morning, nobody tells you anything.

Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

As Lindsay interacted more with the outside world, she started to look at her past life from a new angle. And one day, it all hit her. It was about a year and a half after she'd left the Maidens. She went to a house party with her cousin Kathy. A bunch of Kathy's friends from high school and college were there.

[Unknown]

They were talking about, you know, all those years together, growing up and singing in the choir, playing sports and traveling. And for some crazy reason in that moment, and I still have a picture in that night and, ooh, I look haggard. It might have been taken after I was crying, I don't know. But I remember thinking at some point during that night, oh, my gosh, my childhood was stolen from me. I don't have any of these kinds of memories. And I remember Kathy and her friend Rosie, we went into this room and we were sitting on the floor, and I started to tell them a little bit about what happened. I don't even think I got into, like, details with them. And Kathy looked at me and she's like, lindsay, you were raped. You had been raped at 13 years old almost. At first it was like, wait, what does that mean again? What does rape even mean? What does it look like? Because I never thought that what Victor had done to me was rape. In my mind, it was all God's love and he loved me and it was okay. And I remember her and Rosie being like so serious and intense and things were slowly hitting me that had never crossed my mind before. I never thought of that word, never realized that that's what had happened to me. I. That moment I'll never forget with. With those two girls.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Lindsay's cousin Kathy said, if you're comfortable, you should tell my dad and stepmom. So the next day they all sat down in the family room. Lindsay started to talk. She felt embarrassed, scared. She didn't know what would happen. Her aunt and uncle listened to it all and then they encouraged her to call the police. And Lindsay wanted to. It was like the truth had broken open.

[Unknown]

I think even in that moment, the heaviness of it and the severity of it didn't even quite hit me yet. I remember talking to the cop in Pine county in my bedroom at my parents house. And I just started telling them like kind of who I was and kind of what happened.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

So here's this Pine County Sheriff's Office document. Basically like a report. Suspect Victor arden Bernard. On 1/3.2012, Blank called the Pine County Sheriff's office and made a report of sexual abuse that occurred to her from the age of 13 until the age of 22. She reported that the perpetrator was Victor Bernard, who was in charge of the River Road fellowship. She advised me that if parents find out that she is making this report, they will contact Bernard and he will flee the country.

[Unknown]

I remember thinking that I didn't know if they believed me or not, you know, and if they thought I was making it up.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Blank stated that she was a member of Maiden's group. There were 10 young females in the group and they lived together. Blank reports the following. She was sexually and physically abused from the age of 13 to the age of 22 by Victor Bernard while she was a member of his Maidens group. Bernard then told them in the time of King Solomon he had many concubines and that it was okay for him, Bernard, to have sexual contact with them, the maidens, because he was a man of the cloth and they would remain virgins.

[Unknown]

And I think he asked me if like there was anyone else that could come forward.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

There was only one person Lindsay could think of, one person who would know exactly what she'd gone through, who had a story like hers.

[Unknown]

It was almost like a no brainer.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

The girl with red hair, a tough Attitude and a giant smile. Jess, short for Jasana. She lived in Wisconsin now. Lindsay sent her a Facebook message. Without hesitation, Jess said she was in. She called the police, too. Jess told them what had happened to her. And she gave them every document she could think of. All of her old papers, notes, diaries. She kept old calendars where, as a kid, she had drawn X's on the days Victor had raped her. It's almost like she knew she might need a record of it someday. They're all part of a file. A set of cardboard boxes full of these pieces of evidence.

[Lindsay]

This is a photocopy of a card that's handwritten. And then there's a note on the top. It says, this is a card Victor sent me the morning after the first night I slept with him. Jasana, it's a little card. God, this just is really upsetting. To my beloved Jasona, I thank God for you as I remember your tears and love and believing I have you in my heart. And I'm so glad to be waiting and watching and longing together for our beloved Lord Jesus Christ. Kept by his love together with you, Victor.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

God, that makes me sick.

[Lindsay]

I thank God for you as I remember your tears.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

I mean, even with that, it's him acknowledging there were tears, you know?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Somehow, actually seeing his handwriting, he does these little squiggles with his G's that make me feel like he cares about how his handwriting looks. And then he signs it in kind of this cursive.

[Lindsay]

She kept that card for so long, and I wonder if she just felt like it was a piece of evidence.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

And she must have been very young then, when he first raped her. It sounds like she was a little.

[Lindsay]

Girl, a little middle schooler, when he wrote her this.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

I mean, it's all reinforcing. Stick with the program. Stick with what I told you.

[Lindsay]

Don't tell anyone. Yeah, it does feel like love bombing. I bet he strategically used love bombing at various times. Yeah, and it basically sounds like nonstop grooming.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Yeah, continued of the whole cult. After Lindsay and Jess talked to the police, they thought something would happen. This had to be a turning point. Now that Lindsay's eyes had been opened. She wanted action. She wanted Victor held accountable. But that didn't seem to happen. She says it was more like a smattering of phone calls spread over a year.

[Unknown]

It just felt like whenever they did call, or maybe I called, it was just me saying the same thing over and over and over again. Hey, we just want to ask you some more questions. Maybe to get, like, clarification on stuff. Any other details? And I was checking in a lot. Like, any updates? Do you guys need anything? It felt like we were getting nowhere.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Lindsay thought Victor could be in Brazil. She told police they'd been there together and gave a few specific locations. After phone calls, letters, interviews, she felt like a broken record.

[Unknown]

Why aren't we getting his picture out? Or, like, maybe getting the news involved? I was determined to make my story heard, make our voices heard, and get Victor arrested. And I was trying to get anyone in a position of power to help us. I wrote letters to the president. I wrote a letter to Katy Perry because she had grown up religiously. I wrote a letter to the FBI.

[Special Agent Jackie Dewar]

This is Special Agent Jackie Dewar of the FBI Baltimore Division. It is 10:04am on Wednesday, March 27, 2013.

[Lindsay]

This is Kai Pickens, U.S. postal Inspector, Washington Division.

[Special Agent Jackie Dewar]

And we're here with Lindsey Tornambe.

[Unknown]

Mm. They sent two people out to meet with me.

[Special Agent Jackie Dewar]

I know this is incredibly difficult for you. Just take your time, okay? And then, you know, we'll go back and ask you some questions afterwards.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Lindsay started at the beginning. She told them how her family joined the group, How Victor exposed himself to her in the camper, why she was so afraid of him, the years of abuse. She drew them a map of the camp with boxes and labels for all. The Alamoth, the big chapel where the whole church would meet. The dining hall where they prepared meals. The barn where they made their own clothes. The lodge.

[Special Agent Jackie Dewar]

So this started when you were about 13 then? So how long did it go on?

[Unknown]

Till I left when I was 23. Okay.

[Special Agent Jackie Dewar]

That's a long time.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

Mm.

[Unknown]

So, I mean, I guess, like, at times of, like, I blamed myself for not speaking up more, but, like, I was only 15, and I didn't, like, wanna. I didn't know what. I didn't want to go to hell or something. I didn't know. I didn't have my parents or anybody supporting me, so I just stayed.

[Special Agent Jackie Dewar]

And Lindsay, no one at this table or anywhere else is gonna tell you that you did anything wrong, because you didn't. Okay? I mean, you're a kid, and you're in an unusual situation where you're part of a religious experience, let's call it, where you're being psychologically manipulated to believe in what he wants you to believe in. Because his other agenda is basically to, you know, based on what you're saying, molest kids. And he's looking to the Bible to justify whatever he does. And because your parents and all the other Parents are so into this guy and believe everything he says. They don't think there's anything wrong with it, even though they know better. You're 13, 14, 15 when this happened. It's not your fault.

[Unknown]

Sa.

[Announcer]

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[Unknown]

A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change.

[Unknown]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Jeff Perlman]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeff Perlman]

The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perlman and this is Rick Jervis.

[Rick Jervis]

We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean. But the most unforgettable part? Our roommate, Reggie Payne from Oakland, sports.

[Jeff Perlman]

Editor and aspiring rapper and his stage name, Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie.

[Rick Jervis]

We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone. In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died.

[Unknown]

I'm like thanking you, but then I see my son's not moving.

[Jeff Perlman]

No headlines, no outrage, just silence.

[Rick Jervis]

So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.

[Jeff Perlman]

Listen to finding sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you.

Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, discipline, physical training, hard labor and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

The first night was overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you and we didn't know what to expect. In the morning. Nobody tells you anything.

Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lindsay]

Lindsay thought with the FBI involved, things might finally gain traction.

[Unknown]

They said because the abuse never crossed state lines, they couldn't do anything. I think I was worried about the statute of limitations running out. I was feeling really desperate that somehow nothing like all of this and nothing would happen. It almost felt like nobody was believing me. They almost seemed to have no interest in wanting to help or to find Victor. I remember being so frustrated and just also in a lot of internal pain.

[Lindsay]

Not only was she disheartened that she wasn't getting justice for herself, she worried about the maidens she left behind. They were still under Victor's control. Scores of other people were still being abused by him. More if he recruited new followers, found new girls. She moved around a lot during this time. Different states, different roommates. She didn't have a lot of stuff to move. Sometimes she couch surfed, sometimes went back to her parents place. She changed her name for a while because it reminded her too much of Victor. Even though Victor had changed her name to Lyra, he still sometimes called her Lindsay or Lindsay Lyra. When he was upset with her, he associated the name Lindsay with sin. He would tell her he hated Lindsay, that Lindsay needed to die.

[Unknown]

I picked the name Katerina because I thought it was a really pretty Italian name. And then I went by Kat.

[Lindsay]

She thought about joining the military. She started making friends who were in the military, too. She liked the camaraderie, and something about having someone else be in control actually appealed to her. She had been told what to do her whole life, so that felt safe, familiar.

[Unknown]

At the time, I was making a lot of friends who were in the military and a lot of wounded warriors, amputees. And I felt like in some way, it was really easy for me to hang around them because they had been through so much loss. Some of their outward pain you could see, you know, like, limbs being lost and the therapy they would have to go through. And you couldn't see physically any of my pain, but I was hurting so much internally that I was gravitating towards hanging around them because they would constantly, you know, like, tell each other jokes. I know that they definitely had bad times, but they still carried that, like, brotherhood when they were together and lifting each other up. I feel like I really needed that at that time.

[Lindsay]

Did they know what you were going through?

[Unknown]

No, not many people did. I shared with some, but not everybody. And then there were some friends I met, some military friends who needed a roommate. So I moved in with them in Manassas, Virginia, and it was great. You know the show New Girl Jess?

[Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

They always said I reminded them of her because I was always, like, singing. Singing my sentences. And I didn't think we had our TV hooked up, like, the first day or whatever, and they're like, that's okay. We have. We have Kat here. She'll entertain us.

[Lindsay]

It sounds like your old self was coming back a little bit, like your real self.

[Unknown]

Yeah, there were definitely periods. I mean, there was also times there where I was cutting my wrists, you know, so it was. Some days were really, really hard.

[Lindsay]

She says she wasn't trying to kill herself. She was doing it to cope.

[Unknown]

I felt like my internal pain was so. There was so much. I don't know. I just felt like I needed my body to feel physical pain. I almost felt like I was numb. I just need to feel something during those years, especially in the beginning and then even years following. I mean, a small trigger could just set me off. It could ruin my day. It could ruin my week. And it could be a smell. Victor used to wear spikenard. And then frankincense and myrrh. It could be seeing a mother and daughter walk down the street hand in hand. It could be like a memory that came up. And sometimes I didn't even know what the trigger was. It was really high highs, really low lows, no thanks to any drugs. It was just my emotions trying to process all of this stuff.

[Lindsay]

She decided to tell her parents, tell them about it all, about what had really happened to her for years as a maiden in River Road, what their leader, Victor, had really done.

[Unknown]

We were in the driveway and I just started telling them, and I probably was just word vomiting. This is what really happened and this is what he did to me. And, you know, I'm going to the cops and Jess is helping. My dad was, like, very sad. He just said he would help wherever he could. I remember my sister yelling at me that I was making this up. And none of that happened. And I remember walking through the garage into the kitchen where my mother was, and I think I was saying something like, don't you believe me? Like, this is what really happened to me. I was raped by him. All those years Since I was 13, she looked at me and she was like, a lot of bad things happen, but Victor is a man of God and I'm going to follow him. Here I am crying and bearing my soul to her that Victor had raped me repeatedly for all those years. And she was so cold hearted, so cold to me. It was immediately just defending the person who had hurt me all those years. And I left no other word. I don't think I said anything to her, just walked out the door. At the time, I felt like nobody could answer these questions, like, why didn't my parents do that? How could they leave me there and be raped for all those years? Nobody came to rescue me. And then on top of it, I was trying to get help and tell my story. And it felt like nobody was believing me. And it just felt like justice would never happen.

[Lindsay]

When did the pattern of just you calling and them calling you actually turn?

[Unknown]

It was January of 2014 that I got an email from Tom Lydon, so.

[Lindsay]

Far trying to tell her parents or the police or the FBI or the president or Katy Perry, none of it seemed to work. But then Lindsay heard from an investigative journalist, a reporter for the local TV.

[Unknown]

News, and he said somehow he heard about our story and he wanted to know if we'd be willing to talk with him, you know, to get the media involved. And Jess and I, I think both of us immediately were like, yes, let's. It's been two years of nothing. And that's when everything started changing.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and I Heart podcasts. It's written and produced by Erica Lance and me. Our story editor is Emily Forman. Mixing and sound design by James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Our executive producers are John Peratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvell and nikki etor@iheart podcast. You can follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch and you can reach out via email. Theturningcocopunch.com I'm Aelin Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.

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[Lindsay]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Unknown]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient. Could you be more specific when it's cravenient? Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at am, pm Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just.

[Announcer]

A second at a.m. pM.

[Unknown]

I'm seeing a pattern here. Well yeah, we're talking about what I crave, which is anything from am, pm. What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. AM PM Too much good stuff.

[Dr. Leah Tritate]

If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where Black women, femmes and gender expansive survivors of sexual sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support and what happens after. And I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leotra Tate. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on Earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you.

Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alin Lance Lesser]

This is an iHeart podcast.