The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): 20Product – On Running's CPO on Product Emotion, Cult Brands & Product Mistakes with Gérald Marolf

Host: Harry Stebbings
Guest: Gérald Marolf, Chief Product Officer, On Running
Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive conversation between Harry Stebbings and Gérald Marolf, Chief Product Officer of On Running, unpacking the nuanced craft of product development in the context of premium consumer brands. Gérald shares how to engineer emotion through products, why most products fail, the balance between function and style, and the lessons learned from On's high-profile product decisions—including mistakes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Discovering the Craft of Product – Emotion & Irrational Love for Products

Gérald's fascination with product began with perfume—a product that exists almost purely to create desire and identity:
“Why do you sell something that is just a smell and create a bottle and something around it that people actually crave for it?” (03:41, Gérald)
Emotional engagement is at the heart of great product design, whether it’s perfume or running shoes. The irrational bond is essential:
- “Every great product should probably trigger somewhat of that slight discomfort of challenging yourself of is it the right thing for me? ... when it does that, you're already one step ahead in actually falling in love with the product itself.” (04:57, Gérald)

Engineering Emotion Through Physical vs. Digital Products

In digital, rapid iteration allows for risk and experimentation; in physical, permanence requires foresight:
“Once it's in your hands, I cannot change it ... When you do physical product, once it's gone, it's gone.” (06:56, Gérald)

Key Lesson:

Small, seemingly irrational choices in physical products (e.g. "a 3D logo on a shoe that will fall off tomorrow") can create more emotion than heavily engineered features. (07:32–08:32)

The Challenge of Serving Both “Power Users” and Casual Consumers

On’s products are used by elite runners and “lifestyle” users alike—which Gérald sees as a positive:
“It's good to have great product even though you don't use it at its full extent ... running culture as a base is just a great starting point because we simply can't fuck up.” (09:42–11:24, Gérald)

Product Strategy:

The brand must build to the highest performance standard (runners), but embrace its diverse consumer base (e.g. “Knightsbridge cafe” users).

Listening to Customers vs. Leading with Vision

Harry asks how much On listens to customers versus “showing the way”:
“We listen a lot. We don’t always use everything, but we do listen a lot ... but if you don’t have a historic archive, you need to create new things and push out of the comfort zone.” (11:40–12:45, Gérald)

Mistakes from Over-Listening:

Over-indexed on “sport-lifestyle” hybrids (athleisure as both performance and style): “That middle ground, I think that was not the smartest place to operate in.” (12:52, Gérald)

On Not Listening Enough:

In tennis, could have understood consumer material preferences (“vegan” vs. durability) earlier for the Roger line (15:30–17:11).

Being First vs. Being Best in Product

Ambition to be first can shape company culture even if market need isn’t immediate: “The ambition to be first helps to attract great talent ... For the type of culture you’re building, it’s extremely valuable.” (17:38, Gérald)

Brand DNA, Athlete Partnerships, and Market Expansion

Roger Federer’s role: Not just about tennis, but what Roger represents in terms of aspirational, global excellence and opening new arenas for the brand. “Roger is part of our DNA. ... The way an athlete like him operates ... created a white space for us to think beyond running.” (20:05–21:05, Gérald)
On the challenge of longevity with athlete-linked sub-brands: “How do you create beyond an athlete’s career, cultural relevance and how do you make that happen?” (21:08–21:47, Gérald)

Cult and Community: Brand Loyalty in the Modern Era

Brand personality is crucial amidst rising consumer promiscuity: “If you give a brand the right characteristics ... that can go a long way in your relationship with the customer. ... But it goes beyond just trying to be everything to everyone.” (28:11, Gérald)
Gérald admires brands that stand for something clear (Alo Yoga, Asics), and critiques those with confused positioning (Allbirds)—“Am I really going to put you on instead of On or Nike?” (30:04–31:01, Harry & Gérald)

Creating Hits, Product Flops & Surprise Success

Collab with Loewe: An early, high-end trail shoe collab that was “too early” but remains a favorite. (32:48–33:54)
On controversial products: The “slow marathon” shoe faced skepticism because it defied community expectations for what a marathon shoe should be. (24:52–25:38)

Lesson:

Sometimes products take off for unexpected reasons (simplicity, comfort), and launches can be hit or miss. Listening to consumer feedback and leaving “more on the table” for user interpretation is key (Sopranos ending analogy). (36:47, Gérald)

Product Principles, Mistakes & Brand Building (Quick Fire, 49:47–53:23)

Product Principles Evolved:

Pyramid of aesthetics, functionality, sustainability needs synchronicity. (49:51, Gérald)

Most Underappreciated/Overrated Competitors:

Underappreciated: La Sportiva – “Outstanding. Not too much fucks given. Great looking shoes.” (50:11, Gérald)
Overrated: Adidas – “They're going too fast ... If just newness is the driver ... I think they could win more consumers back to brand personality if they just take it a tick slower.” (50:25–51:19, Gérald)

Biggest Product Mistake at On:

Micromanaging experts: “Holding back teams sometimes even though they've all figured it out … that's something I’m on a learning path [for].” (51:46, Gérald)

The Future of Sportswear:

“Sportswear per se is probably only at 20, 30% of what it can do in terms of the uniform that we're gonna wear.” (52:56, Gérald)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Every great product should probably trigger somewhat of that slight discomfort of challenging yourself…” (04:57, Gérald)
On emotional product design: “It's the smaller parts that have a bigger impact than the hours and days and weeks we spent with a sports science team…” (07:32, Gérald)
On the illusion of consumer “hybrid” personas: “Not sure that really still exists or has ever existed … that middle ground, I think that was not the smartest place to operate in.” (12:52, Gérald)
On brand-building: “If you give a brand the right characteristics, and for us, a lot of that goes through product, I think that can go a long way in your relationship with the customer.” (28:11, Gérald)
On differentiation through community: “They [New Balance] were much more hyper local ... and did that exceptionally well.” (44:45, Gérald)

Timestamps for Major Segments

03:41 – Gérald discusses falling in love with products via the fragrance industry.
04:57 – The importance of emotional discomfort in product love.
06:56 – The difference between product iteration in digital vs. physical realms.
09:42 – Balancing performance for runners vs. lifestyle users.
12:52 – Pitfalls of chasing “hybrid” persona products (athleisure).
15:30 – Lessons from launching tennis products and the Roger Federer partnership.
20:05–21:05 – Federer's role in On's brand DNA.
24:52 – Most controversial recent product (slow marathon shoe).
28:11 – On brand personality and loyalty in modern consumerism.
32:48 – The Loewe collaboration—a cult product, but not a blockbuster.
36:47 – Learning to leave “more on the table” for consumers.
49:47–53:23 – Quick fire: product mistakes, underappreciated/overrated brands, lessons, and the future of sportswear.

Additional Insights

Gérald emphasizes storytelling and leaving open questions for consumers, likening ideal product launches to the ending of The Sopranos—“up to you to make it up.” (36:04)
He pushes back on the old binary of “price king” vs. “feature king,” noting that modern consumers, especially younger ones, are more community or bubble-driven than just feature-hungry. (39:02)

Overall Episode Tone

Candid, thought-provoking, and reflective, with tangible examples that blend premium fashion, sportswear innovation, and the emotional psychology of consumer products. Gérald’s willingness to admit uncertainty, evolving philosophies, and missteps humanizes both his approach and On’s brand journey.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): 20Product – On Running's CPO on Product Emotion, Cult Brands & Product Mistakes with Gérald Marolf

Host: Harry Stebbings
Guest: Gérald Marolf, Chief Product Officer, On Running
Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Discovering the Craft of Product – Emotion & Irrational Love for Products

Gérald's fascination with product began with perfume—a product that exists almost purely to create desire and identity:
“Why do you sell something that is just a smell and create a bottle and something around it that people actually crave for it?” (03:41, Gérald)
Emotional engagement is at the heart of great product design, whether it’s perfume or running shoes. The irrational bond is essential:
- “Every great product should probably trigger somewhat of that slight discomfort of challenging yourself of is it the right thing for me? ... when it does that, you're already one step ahead in actually falling in love with the product itself.” (04:57, Gérald)

Engineering Emotion Through Physical vs. Digital Products

In digital, rapid iteration allows for risk and experimentation; in physical, permanence requires foresight:
“Once it's in your hands, I cannot change it ... When you do physical product, once it's gone, it's gone.” (06:56, Gérald)

Key Lesson:

Small, seemingly irrational choices in physical products (e.g. "a 3D logo on a shoe that will fall off tomorrow") can create more emotion than heavily engineered features. (07:32–08:32)

The Challenge of Serving Both “Power Users” and Casual Consumers

On’s products are used by elite runners and “lifestyle” users alike—which Gérald sees as a positive:
“It's good to have great product even though you don't use it at its full extent ... running culture as a base is just a great starting point because we simply can't fuck up.” (09:42–11:24, Gérald)

Product Strategy:

The brand must build to the highest performance standard (runners), but embrace its diverse consumer base (e.g. “Knightsbridge cafe” users).

Listening to Customers vs. Leading with Vision

Harry asks how much On listens to customers versus “showing the way”:
“We listen a lot. We don’t always use everything, but we do listen a lot ... but if you don’t have a historic archive, you need to create new things and push out of the comfort zone.” (11:40–12:45, Gérald)

Mistakes from Over-Listening:

Over-indexed on “sport-lifestyle” hybrids (athleisure as both performance and style): “That middle ground, I think that was not the smartest place to operate in.” (12:52, Gérald)

On Not Listening Enough:

In tennis, could have understood consumer material preferences (“vegan” vs. durability) earlier for the Roger line (15:30–17:11).

Being First vs. Being Best in Product

Ambition to be first can shape company culture even if market need isn’t immediate: “The ambition to be first helps to attract great talent ... For the type of culture you’re building, it’s extremely valuable.” (17:38, Gérald)

Brand DNA, Athlete Partnerships, and Market Expansion

Roger Federer’s role: Not just about tennis, but what Roger represents in terms of aspirational, global excellence and opening new arenas for the brand. “Roger is part of our DNA. ... The way an athlete like him operates ... created a white space for us to think beyond running.” (20:05–21:05, Gérald)
On the challenge of longevity with athlete-linked sub-brands: “How do you create beyond an athlete’s career, cultural relevance and how do you make that happen?” (21:08–21:47, Gérald)

Cult and Community: Brand Loyalty in the Modern Era

Brand personality is crucial amidst rising consumer promiscuity: “If you give a brand the right characteristics ... that can go a long way in your relationship with the customer. ... But it goes beyond just trying to be everything to everyone.” (28:11, Gérald)
Gérald admires brands that stand for something clear (Alo Yoga, Asics), and critiques those with confused positioning (Allbirds)—“Am I really going to put you on instead of On or Nike?” (30:04–31:01, Harry & Gérald)

Creating Hits, Product Flops & Surprise Success

Collab with Loewe: An early, high-end trail shoe collab that was “too early” but remains a favorite. (32:48–33:54)
On controversial products: The “slow marathon” shoe faced skepticism because it defied community expectations for what a marathon shoe should be. (24:52–25:38)

Lesson:

Sometimes products take off for unexpected reasons (simplicity, comfort), and launches can be hit or miss. Listening to consumer feedback and leaving “more on the table” for user interpretation is key (Sopranos ending analogy). (36:47, Gérald)

Product Principles, Mistakes & Brand Building (Quick Fire, 49:47–53:23)

Product Principles Evolved:

Pyramid of aesthetics, functionality, sustainability needs synchronicity. (49:51, Gérald)

Most Underappreciated/Overrated Competitors:

Underappreciated: La Sportiva – “Outstanding. Not too much fucks given. Great looking shoes.” (50:11, Gérald)
Overrated: Adidas – “They're going too fast ... If just newness is the driver ... I think they could win more consumers back to brand personality if they just take it a tick slower.” (50:25–51:19, Gérald)

Biggest Product Mistake at On:

Micromanaging experts: “Holding back teams sometimes even though they've all figured it out … that's something I’m on a learning path [for].” (51:46, Gérald)

The Future of Sportswear:

“Sportswear per se is probably only at 20, 30% of what it can do in terms of the uniform that we're gonna wear.” (52:56, Gérald)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Every great product should probably trigger somewhat of that slight discomfort of challenging yourself…” (04:57, Gérald)
On emotional product design: “It's the smaller parts that have a bigger impact than the hours and days and weeks we spent with a sports science team…” (07:32, Gérald)
On the illusion of consumer “hybrid” personas: “Not sure that really still exists or has ever existed … that middle ground, I think that was not the smartest place to operate in.” (12:52, Gérald)
On brand-building: “If you give a brand the right characteristics, and for us, a lot of that goes through product, I think that can go a long way in your relationship with the customer.” (28:11, Gérald)
On differentiation through community: “They [New Balance] were much more hyper local ... and did that exceptionally well.” (44:45, Gérald)

Timestamps for Major Segments

03:41 – Gérald discusses falling in love with products via the fragrance industry.
04:57 – The importance of emotional discomfort in product love.
06:56 – The difference between product iteration in digital vs. physical realms.
09:42 – Balancing performance for runners vs. lifestyle users.
12:52 – Pitfalls of chasing “hybrid” persona products (athleisure).
15:30 – Lessons from launching tennis products and the Roger Federer partnership.
20:05–21:05 – Federer's role in On's brand DNA.
24:52 – Most controversial recent product (slow marathon shoe).
28:11 – On brand personality and loyalty in modern consumerism.
32:48 – The Loewe collaboration—a cult product, but not a blockbuster.
36:47 – Learning to leave “more on the table” for consumers.
49:47–53:23 – Quick fire: product mistakes, underappreciated/overrated brands, lessons, and the future of sportswear.

Additional Insights

Gérald emphasizes storytelling and leaving open questions for consumers, likening ideal product launches to the ending of The Sopranos—“up to you to make it up.” (36:04)
He pushes back on the old binary of “price king” vs. “feature king,” noting that modern consumers, especially younger ones, are more community or bubble-driven than just feature-hungry. (39:02)

20Product: On Running's CPO on How to Create Emotion Through Product | Why 99% of Products Fail and How to Create Cults Around Products | The Biggest Product Mistakes On Have Made & Lessons Learned with Gérald Marolf

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Summary

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): 20Product – On Running's CPO on Product Emotion, Cult Brands & Product Mistakes with Gérald Marolf

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Discovering the Craft of Product – Emotion & Irrational Love for Products

Engineering Emotion Through Physical vs. Digital Products

Key Lesson:

The Challenge of Serving Both “Power Users” and Casual Consumers

Product Strategy:

Listening to Customers vs. Leading with Vision

Mistakes from Over-Listening:

On Not Listening Enough:

Being First vs. Being Best in Product

Brand DNA, Athlete Partnerships, and Market Expansion

Cult and Community: Brand Loyalty in the Modern Era

Creating Hits, Product Flops & Surprise Success

Lesson:

Product Principles, Mistakes & Brand Building (Quick Fire, 49:47–53:23)

Product Principles Evolved:

Most Underappreciated/Overrated Competitors:

Biggest Product Mistake at On:

The Future of Sportswear:

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Additional Insights

Overall Episode Tone

Summary

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): 20Product – On Running's CPO on Product Emotion, Cult Brands & Product Mistakes with Gérald Marolf

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Discovering the Craft of Product – Emotion & Irrational Love for Products

Engineering Emotion Through Physical vs. Digital Products

Key Lesson:

The Challenge of Serving Both “Power Users” and Casual Consumers

Product Strategy:

Listening to Customers vs. Leading with Vision

Mistakes from Over-Listening:

On Not Listening Enough:

Being First vs. Being Best in Product

Brand DNA, Athlete Partnerships, and Market Expansion

Cult and Community: Brand Loyalty in the Modern Era

Creating Hits, Product Flops & Surprise Success

Lesson:

Product Principles, Mistakes & Brand Building (Quick Fire, 49:47–53:23)

Product Principles Evolved:

Most Underappreciated/Overrated Competitors:

Biggest Product Mistake at On:

The Future of Sportswear:

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Additional Insights

Overall Episode Tone