The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Max Altman on the New Seed War, Backing Rippling Early, and Why Climate Tech is a Mirage

Host: Harry Stebbings
Guest: Max Altman, Co-Founder & Managing Partner at Saga Ventures
Date: November 21, 2025
Duration: ~73 minutes

Episode Overview

In this candid, wide-ranging conversation, Harry Stebbings sits down with Max Altman of Saga Ventures. They dive deep into the realities of early-stage venture capital today: the challenge of competing with giants like Sequoia and a16z, lessons from missed and great investments like Rippling, Reddit, and why Max believes climate tech is structurally unsuited to venture returns. With honesty, sharp culture commentary, and personal reflection on family (his brothers are Jack and Sam Altman), Max describes the new “knife fight” of seed investing, the impact of background on investing style, and the inner workings of building and differentiating a modern VC fund.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Max Altman’s Background and Midwest Roots ([03:50]–[05:27])

• Growing Up in the Midwest: Raised in St. Louis, Max contrasts the humble, communal culture of the Midwest with the aggressive, individualistic energy of San Francisco.
  • "The culture in the Midwest is very different. It's very humble, it's very communal." - Max Altman [04:08]
• How Geography Shapes Investing: Midwest upbringing taught him to build real, trusting relationships but perhaps made him less aggressive early on.

2. Early Tech & Investing Experience — Zenefits, Rippling, and Parker Conrad ([06:32]–[10:08])

• First Tech Role at Zenefits: Worked directly with Parker Conrad, whom Max describes as both "crazy" and the best salesperson and product person he's ever met.
• Lessons Learned:
  1. Founder Intuition Matters Most: "The founder needs to have intuition of what they want; the customers aren't going to know." [07:32]
  2. Growth > Everything: "Sales and growth cure everything...the culture was amazing." [08:10]
• Loyalty to Parker Conrad: Even after Parker’s fall at Zenefits, Max remained supportive, emphasizing founder’s resilience and taking early risk on him with Rippling.

3. Building Funds and Dealmaking – Hydrazine, Apollo, Saga ([12:05]–[20:22])

• Evolving Motives: Left working with family (Jack & Sam Altman) to establish his own reputation—part ego, part pride.
  • "I want to be successful in my own right...I left after doing three funds...just for ego and pride, to be completely honest." [11:29]
• Hydrazine (2016, $200M): Strategy was loose: back best people in network, notable investments include Rippling ($1.35M at $25M post), Reddit ($600M post).
• Lessons in Construction & Mistakes:
  • Not following on with winners.
  • "Run out of your living room" approach led to dilution, missed opportunity for larger positions.
  • Key Lesson: "[The] learning was just give money to the best people...be price insensitive." [16:52]
  • Biggest Mistake: Not doubling down on clear winners post-investment.
• Apollo (2020, $200M): Tried extending into hard tech, climate, defense.
  • "We got a little bored...It's more fun to do that stuff...but didn't have a ton of success there." [23:45]

4. On Climate Tech: A Mirage and Disaster? ([25:05]–[26:01])

• Max is blunt: "Climate was a disaster...hey, climate change is real. The government should deal with it. I don't think [VCs can solve it]."
• What's Wrong with Climate Investing?
  • Businesses are "completely dependent on the price of carbon."
  • "When the economy slows, companies will not keep spending billions on carbon credits instead of keeping jobs." [25:50]
  • Climate is a "luxury concern." [25:55]
  • Returns just haven’t matched the narrative or market needs.

5. Seed Investing vs. Multi-Stage Giants ([26:14]–[31:10])

• Competition at Series A: Big brands have locked up later-stage rounds with brand, influence, and deep relationships.
  • "It's a knife fight...If I win against Sequoia at A, it's probably not the deals I want." [26:35]
• How to Compete: Get in earlier or partner with top funds.
• Are Sequoia & a16z Dominating Seed?
  • Not totally. New post-Transformer AI unicorns are led (at seed) by a mix of funds; plenty of first checks for smaller/newer VCs.
  • "There's not something where Sequoia and Andreessen are taking up half of those lead checks at the seed." [29:02]
• Signaling Risk is Real:
  • "If they're not leading your A after seeding you, that's a huge negative signal." [31:27]
  • "Signaling is extremely real—or at least a good way for us to sell, but it's real." [31:45]

6. Deal Sourcing and Building Relationships ([32:11]–[34:42])

• Best Deals Rarely Come from VCs: Instead, "almost none of the best deals I've done have been sent by another fund." [32:11]
• Technical Founders/CTOs Are Best Referrers: Deep engineering networks yield stronger referrals.
• Firm Construction Choices:
  • Saga focuses on concentrated positions (10% target) vs. lots of “brand checks.” Prefers deeper founder relationships over ultra-broad index approach.

7. Fund Structuring, Fundraising, and LP Relations ([35:20]–[44:05])

• Saga Fund I: $125M, 20-25 lead positions, $2–2.5M entry checks, 30% reserves (though recognizes pro rata is often honored only in part).
• Fundraising Insights:
  • Took 5-6 months, focused on institutions and endowments (6 included from day one).
  • "Sam [Altman] told me—don't talk to other LPs until you've got high quality anchors locked in. I didn't listen." [41:18]
• Different LP Types Want Different Things: Endowments want "strategy fit"; family offices care about upside.
• Biggest Surprise: It's less about promising giant returns, more about matching their needs and showing maturity in strategy.

8. Seed Market Today: Pricing, Watermelon Seeds, 1% Ownership ([36:50]–[39:42])

• Rising Valuations: More deals priced at $50–$100M at seed—harder to win, less ownership, but sometimes sensible (for top founders, network, or "brand halo").
  • "If you're going to make a 10x plus [return], just do the f***ing deal anyway." —Harry Stebbings [38:28]
• On "Brand Checks": Max warmed up to doing small checks in winners for halo/network. "Always a good thing to have a CEO of a multi-billion dollar company that you're texting with..." [39:47]

9. On Pro Rata, Collaboration, and Competitive Dynamics ([44:51]–[47:13])

• Pro Rata Reality: Models for 70–80% at best, rarely 100%.
• Most Collaborative Large Fund:
  • "Khosla. We've ended up with 10% alongside them in two deals, very collaborative." [45:48]
• Least Collaborative: "Sequoia's tough, man. ... They're the best of the best." (Laughs) [45:59]
• Fundamental Market Change: "It's not kumbaya. It's a competitive market, we're all competing for a scarce amount of good equity." [70:14]

10. Preemptive Rounds, Raising Advice, and Signaling ([46:28]–[52:59])

• Massive Preemptive Rounds Can Distort Companies: Max usually advises founders not to raise too fast or too much, but understands how brand association (Sequoia, a16z) "king-makes" companies and requires careful timing.
  • "Getting fat and happy early on is not great...you need a lot of fear you're going to run out of money to work harder." [46:46]
• Biggest Mistake Founders Make Raising Series A: Sporadic outreach and sloppy process; should run a tight, coordinated “horse race.” [49:26]
• Strength of VC Networks: Many good deals come from direct, trusted relationships—not cold intros or VC pass-arounds.

11. The "Sphere of Influence" in AI, OpenAI, and Investing Around Giants ([54:40]–[58:46])

• On Building Near AI Labs (e.g. OpenAI): Avoid companies that OpenAI or Anthropic will likely build themselves.
  • "If you think you're going to build something close to OpenAI and they're not going to build it, you're crazy." [55:00]
• Differentiation: Invest in "second order" companies, further away from big labs' product roadmaps (fleetworks example: AI for logistics, supply chains).
• On Leveraging Family—Sam Altman: Max is careful not to press for privileged information, emphasizing integrity and independence.

12. Personal Reflections and Staying Motivated ([58:46]–[61:14])

• Balancing the halo effect (and burdens) of being Sam Altman’s brother.
• Motivation to prove himself with Saga, focusing on building a quiet, "luxury" yet high-performing seed fund—akin to First Round Capital or USV.

13. Changing Industry Structure—Rise of New Boutiques, Squeeze on Old Seed Funds ([61:15]–[64:30])

• Messy Middle: $700M seed funds now squeezed; the future is either massive platforms or tight, high-performing boutiques.
  • "I think it's really challenging to be like a $700 million fund now. You’re either massive, or you have a legacy cachet, or you’re a boutique with a specific offering." [61:57]
• Inevitable Replacement: Each generation’s new seed firms must displace the old.

14. Secondaries, When to Sell, and Managing Duration ([64:30]–[67:44])

• Selling Discipline: Should have sold secondary in Gusto at $10B.
  • "We need to spot when the market is inefficient and some things get overvalued...not wait for that 200x." [64:48]
• Duration Matters: The timing of DPI is as important as the multiple ("4x in 17 years is just 2.6x in 10 years"). [66:16]
• When Sequoia or similar funds "let it ride," it’s because they’re not return-constrained and can take bigger risks.

15. Personal Wealth, Hedonic Treadmill, and Happiness ([67:44]–[69:27])

• Getting first big hits (Rippling, Reddit) brings some peace, but “the ladder to nowhere” in Silicon Valley wealth is real.
• "I would be less happy as a billionaire than I am now. I’d just want a nicer house, then a boat...” [69:05]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On VC Culture:
  “I think that it is because people say it's a sort of chummy collaborative thing where we're all kumbaya and having fun and then you get to it and someone just elbows you out of the way. It's not. It's a competitive market.” — Max Altman [70:14]

• On Early-Stage Investing with Giants:
  “If I win [a Series A] against Sequoia, it's probably not the ones I want...If you can get 2 or 3% of the next Doordash or Airbnb, we're in great shape.” — Max Altman [26:35 & 18:01]

• On Climate Tech:
  "Climate change is real. The government should deal with it. I don't think [it makes sense for VC]." – Max Altman [25:06]

• On Fundraising:
  "Sam gave me advice that I did not listen to—don’t talk to other LPs until you have your high-quality anchors locked in." [41:18]

• On PR & Brand:
  “I would do a lot more to brand myself as a thought leader...I’m starting on the PR train now.” – Max Altman [75:46]

• On Tech’s Future:
  “People can't wrap their heads around how big these markets are...if you succeed, you aren’t just selling software, you’re replacing the whole thing.” [73:58, 74:31]

Segment Timestamps

• [03:23] Entry into the interview, reflections on family and early background
• [06:32] Zenefits, Parker Conrad, and first product roles
• [12:05] Motivation for building own fund, departing family partnership
• [13:28] Hydrazine and Apollo funds—strategy, branding, and ethos
• [18:25] Biggest mistakes in fund construction and follow-on
• [21:44] Reddit: Reflection on exit timing and $2B left on the table
• [23:02] Apollo fund, transition to hard tech, climate regrets
• [26:14] Competing with multi-stage giants, the new Series A ‘knife fight’
• [32:11] Sources for best deals—founders, not VCs; power of technical networks
• [35:20] Fund strategy and construction at Saga Ventures
• [41:18] Lessons and tactical truths of institutional fundraising
• [46:28] Preemption on rounds, advising founders on when (not) to raise
• [54:40] Investing near vs. around big AI labs: where new opportunity lives
• [58:46] Navigating fame and pressure as Sam Altman’s brother
• [61:15] Seed fund structural challenges and new generational turnover
• [64:30] When to exit, managing secondaries and DPI duration
• [67:44] Wealth, happiness, and maintaining perspective
• [69:29] Quick-fire questions: underrated founders, biggest BS about VC, regrets, lessons from Sam, advice to managers, belief that changed

Quick-Fire Takeaways

• Favorite underrated founder: Lux Srini (CTO at Zenefits → Zero Down) [69:54]
• Biggest venture BS: “It’s kumbaya, collaborative—we’re competing for scarce equity.” [70:14]
• Deal regret: Hadrian—should have been more aggressive in relationship-driven dealmaking [70:45]
• Best lesson from Sam Altman: “Figure out what someone truly wants—it’s not always money.” [71:16]
• Advice to new managers: “Be humble. Know what you’re good at, stay in your lane.” [71:40]
• Big belief flip: “I thought you could be a text guy, fly under the radar—not anymore.” [72:00]

Final Words

Max Altman’s candor and acerbic wit expose both the opportunities and landmines in the rapidly shifting landscape of seed investing. He details not just the victories and losses, but the psychological toll, the new market math, and how, beneath personal relationships and Miami poolside meditation, lies a fiercely competitive modern venture ecosystem.

For more episodes with top founders and VCs, visit 20vc.com.