← The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: Scott Galloway on Are Billionaires Happy & The Impact of Money on Psychology and Self-Worth | Becoming a Better Father & Husband | Why We Should Drink More and Not Work From Home | The Tinder Effect & How it Makes Young Men Radical
01:10:50
Scott Galloway is a Professor of Marketing at NYU Stern, where he’s taught for over two decades. He’s the founder of several successful companies, including L2 (acquired by Gartner for over $150M), Red Envelope, and Prophet. He’s a New York...
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- [00:00]
Scott Galloway
For the first time in our nation's history, a 30 year old isn't doing as well as his or her parents were at 30. If a man hasn't cohabitated or been married by the time he's 30, there's a 1 in 3 chance he ends up a substance abuser. When a young man doesn't have the guardrails of a romantic relationship, he oftentimes channels that energies into video games, porn and conspiracy theory. If you want to score above your weight class economically and romantically, get out a big spoon, get ready to eat shit, endure rejection.
- [00:28]
Harry Stebbings
This is 20 VC with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, I've wanted to do this show for a long time, so joining me in the hot seat we have Scott Galloway. Scott is professor of Marketing at NYU and there's a bunch of amazing achievements which are normally read for his bio, but honestly for me he's this incredible original thinker who really makes me see the world and ideas in a different light when I speak to him. This was such a fun conversation to do. We cover everything from ego to parenting to relationships to money and more. A really special one here. Let me know you think by emailing me harry0vc.com but before we dive into the show today, I love seeing the team come together to make this show happen. What I don't love is trying to keep track of all the information, the data and the projects that we're working on across dozens of platforms, products and tools. That's why we use Coda, the All In One collaborative workspace that's helped 50,000 teams all over the world get on the same page. Offering the flexibility of docs with the structure of spreadsheets, Coda facilitates deeper teamwork and quicker creativity and their turnkey AI solution. The intelligence of Coda Brain is a game changer. Powered by Grammarly, Coda is entering a new phase of innovation and expansion, aiming to redefine productivity for the AI era. Whether you're a startup looking to organize the chaos while staying nimble, or an enterprise organization looking for better alignment, Coda matches your working style. Its seamless workspace connects to hundreds of your favorite tools including Salesforce, Jira, Asana and Figma, helping your teams transform their rituals and do more faster. Head over to Coda iO20VC right now and get six months off the team plan for startups for free. That's Codacoda iO20VC and get six months off the team plan for free. Coda iO20VC and while Coda keeps our team aligned, acuity Scheduling ensures our time stays on track. This show is brought to you by Acuity Scheduling, the flexible scheduling software that helps you focus on what matters most growing your business. With Acuity, you can manage your calendar. You can accept secure payments, offer clients a seamless booking experience that reflects your brand. I've been using my complimentary subscription and it's been a game changer for staying organized and saving time. I especially love online booking. Clients can book, reschedule or cancel anytime, and the booking page looks fully branded with my logo and colors. The calendar management tools let me set buffer times and sync with other calendars so I never feel overbooked. And with secure payments, I can collect deposits or full payments upfront through Stripe or PayPal, making the process smooth and professional. Head over to acuity scheduling.com 20VC for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code 20VC20 to save 20% off your first Acuity Scheduling subscription. And speaking of incredible companies, don't forget what really keeps those customers coming back. Trust is the ultimate currency in business and today customers expect it faster than ever. And that's why over 10,000 global companies trust Vanta. Vanta automates up to 90% of the work for in demand compliance standards like SoC2, ISO 27001 and more. Using smart AI to centralize workflows, manage risk and get you audit ready in weeks, not months so you can stop chasing paperwork and start closing deals. And a new IDC report found that Vanta customers achieved $535,000 per year in benefits. That's insane. And the platform pays for itself in three months. I had no about these Whether you're growing fast or just getting started, Vanta connects you with trusted auditors and experts support to help you build trust with customers. Get $1,000 off your first year at vanta.com 20vc that's vanta.com 20vc you have.
- [04:29]
Scott Galloway
Now arrived at your destination.
- [04:31]
Harry Stebbings
Scott I've wanted to do this one for a long time, so thank you so much for joining me today.
- [04:35]
Scott Galloway
Oh, you're so welcome. It's good to be here.
- [04:37]
Unknown
When we look at the biggest companies in the world, often considered the Mag 7, what we're seeing is this kind of concentration of value in public markets. And I really wanted this to be a free flowing discussion just because I bluntly respect your brain so much. But you see this concentration of value like we've almost never seen before. Does that worry you? And what does that mean for the future? Value dispersion of Public markets in your.
- [04:56]
Scott Galloway
Mind, I think it's hugely worrying because you have essentially 34% of the S&P is represented by seven companies and 50% of the equity value of the world and 70% of the enterprise value include the debt is wrapped up in the US economy which has seven companies. And if any of those seven companies sneeze, the whole economy and potentially the whole global economy catches a cold. And in addition it's very hard for small and medium sized businesses to attract the kind of human and financial capital to be competitors. So when you have the most valuable parts of our economy, e commerce, one company does between 50 and 70% of all e Commerce, depending on how you categorize it. E Commerce when you have social media as being kind of the most powerful thing to happen in traditional or what we refer to as Media and one company is 75% share of social. When you have search, 90%, 89% and then you have AI, the biggest revolution of the last several decades. 90% of the processing is run through one company's GPUs and 85% of the queries are gone through one company. I think a concentration of power and shareholder value makes a company or an economy less robust, less diverse. Yeah, I think it's bad.
- [06:05]
Unknown
How does this pan out? Do we have $10 trillion companies with MAG7 or do we see the traditional bluntly cycle of companies of growth, of sustenance and then decline and this is just another cycle?
- [06:16]
Scott Galloway
It's an interesting question because some people would say that ultimately the market figures out and look what's happening with Alphabet. Google is starting to lose share to OpenAI and that eventually a competitor comes along, whether it's BYD and Tesla. But I would argue what happens between now and then, and that is I think it is very difficult for companies. The retail landscape in the US has largely been decimated, except for especially retail because Amazon could put forward cheap capital and sell a dollar worth of products for 90 cents and starve out other E commerce players. And I was one of those companies. Winning in our economy has become a function of establishing a great product, establishing the perception that you're the market leader, such that you can attract cheaper capital and essentially overwhelm the competition with capital. At the end of World War II, the German army had better soldier, better kill ratio, better tanks, better planes, better officers. But because we cut off their supply routes, we had 38 gallons of gasoline for every one they did. So we were able to overwhelm their superior Tiger tanks with our shitty Bradley tanks. Because we would just never get within firing distance and chase them around until they ran out of gasoline. And now the kind of the business strategy that has built a lot of the most valuable companies in the world is just to overwhelm them with gasoline. Netflix can spend 18 billion. And Netflix establishes itself as the streaming leader, accesses the public markets, has a fantastic story, accesses the cheapest capital in media. Time Warner, HBO can't compete with these guys. Disney can't compete because their shareholders have wrapped their lips around the crack pipe of profits and demand a certain level of operating margin, which Netflix shareholders don't demand. And they can spend $18 billion on content. And no traditional media player can even come close. Amazon can make these staggering investments in supply chain that no other retailer can even come close. When you talk about brand building, I think the most, the greatest ROI and what you would call, I don't know if it's brand building is communications. And that is if you estab a reputation as the market leader and constantly put out press releases about your innovation and your leadership and you get that sort of that Pepsi generation Amazonian like feel and your stock gets bid up and then you use that cheap capital to start reinvesting or making acquisitions and you can literally pull away from the pack. So everything everywhere ends. There is no company that will be around all of the biggest companies in 1900, in the Dow, none of them are around. All of these companies will go away. But the question is, that's not the right question. The question is between now and then, would we have a more robust economy if we broke up Alphabet and YouTube was its own company, would there be more jobs, more competition, more shareholder value, more choice, such that more advertisers wouldn't have to advertise through Meta and maybe go to a platform that offered more stringent child safety or age gating. So I think competition is a good thing. And if you look at these companies when they're broken up, breakups are one of those few things in economic history that almost always work for almost everybody. The only person that loses is the CEO who wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, not just Westeros. Yeah, eventually all these companies will go away. But between now and then, I think we need to be more robust about antitrust.
- [09:11]
Unknown
If you start a cycle of breakups, where does it end?
- [09:14]
Scott Galloway
Well, you have thoughtful economists and people who say, for example IPG and Omnicom, their merger was held up by the ftc. I think that's ridiculous overreach and that's Elon Musk trying to get in the way of these companies through some bullshit notion that somehow they've formed a cartel to not advertise on X and is getting in the way of their merger. When these are companies merging to survive, these companies are not a threat. They're not charging brands too much money or have a monopsony of suppliers. That was ridiculous. So there are eras of overreach, but the number of FTC investigations has dramatically declined since the 70s and the 80s and very few mergers or acquisitions are blocked now. And I would argue you have to have thoughtful, well compensated, smart economists and lawyers who look at this stuff and say, would we be better off if Amazon didn't have Instagram? If it was an independent company? If these two weren't cooperating and coordinating? The largest search engine in the world is Google. The second largest is YouTube. Should they be cooperating and coordinating or would the ecosystem be healthier, more profitable, more jobs, more tax revenue? If these two were separate companies with their own objectives.
- [10:24]
Unknown
Do you believe in government intervention?
- [10:27]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, it's why we're not speaking German. Government intervenes all the time, but in.
- [10:32]
Unknown
Free market economies where we see situations like that. Do you believe in active government intervention?
- [10:38]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. But it's a balance, right? I think one of the strengths of America is we have a tendency to have more of a Wild west attitude. And I think that is probably to err on the side of too little regulation is probably better than too much regulation. If you were to try and come up with three or four reductive reasons why the US has created so much more economic value than Europe. I think if you're intellectually honest, you would say that in the US companies are allowed to ask for forgiveness, not permission. There's some value to that. There's also a downside. We have a 60% uptick in teen suicide in the US and I don't put it all at the hands of social or the feet of social media, but it's definitely played a role. Europe is more thoughtful about what privacy regulations are, right? I do think there is economic advantage to erring on a lighter touch of regulation, but it also comes with some externalities. But that's why we have a government and thoughtful P who can hopefully balance economic growth and innovation and risk and being aggressive and breaking some shit with also recognizing that, okay, Mark Zuckerberg and Shel Sandberg are lying to us, that probably it doesn't make sense for a 12 year old to be spending 14 hours a day in the high school cafeteria. Known as Instagram. I wonder if the EU is too regulated and America is not regulated enough. And I feel like in your question is pregnant with a comet. What do you think?
- [11:57]
Unknown
I believe in minimal government intervention. I believe in Adam Smith's invisible hand. I think I just see European regulation get in the way of so much innovation every single day as a venture investor and create labor challenges, innovation challenges, research and development. So I think I'm stifled by innovation or by regulation on a daily basis, which makes me negatively inclined.
- [12:16]
Scott Galloway
But do you think at some point, do you think thoughtful regulate, for example? I think that we needed more regulation in crypto in the last administration to create just a level playing field. I feel like a lot of the more innovative companies in the crypto space just wanted to set of rules they know would hold that they could plan against.
- [12:31]
Unknown
I completely agree and I think clarity is everything. And I think it's where most governments fail to provide clear guidance as to what will happen in the future. And that's all people want. I think I just don't have trust in the institutions that make these regulations, which means that I don't want them.
- [12:44]
Scott Galloway
But you are those institutions. You live in a democracy. You get to vote on who and what runs those institutions.
- [12:50]
Unknown
I do, but I don't get to vote in any way in terms of who should be running. I think we both agree that the quality of politicians is very low.
- [12:59]
Scott Galloway
Look, that's a fair point.
- [12:59]
Unknown
But I, I agree totally. I just wish there were better quality politicians.
- [13:04]
Scott Galloway
What I think needs upgrading is I think our, and no one likes to say this, I think it's our public that are fucking idiots that don't think critically and don't look at the issues and don't vote for good candidates and don't cut through the noise in their social media are much more inclined to believe something bad about somebody as opposed to doing the hard work of really understanding the issues and voting for good candidates and being supportive and showing people a little bit more grace.
- [13:27]
Unknown
Do you blame the public for that? Like when. I agree with totally. But when you look at the knowledge inequality both in the US and the uk, I think the majority do not spend the time to do the work and then also fed massive misinformation which kind of feeds it in a challenging way. But does one blame the public for the knowledge inequality?
- [13:45]
Scott Galloway
Well, you know, the world is what we make of it. So I find that we always have this idolatry of the voter that oh, it's never the public's fault. I think in The US A lot of our problems stem from a lack of investment or underinvestment in K through 12 and that we aren't producing critical thinkers who understand not only the government, don't understand how fortunate they are to live in a democracy, don't appreciate America, don't appreciate the rights and the freedoms and our victories that we should celebrate together. Don't understand basic financial literacy, aren't encouraged to vote. I get that government is bad. And the question is, why aren't better people running? The answer is whenever I talk to really good people that like to run, they're like, are you fucking crazy? I would never put myself through that. And so why is that? Why have we made it so ugly and awful for good people to run?
- [14:35]
Unknown
Because of the processes of getting impact. It is so difficult to make a change that you want to make. It's not the money. People pay them more. It's never the money. It's always, it is impossible to do what you want to do when in a position of power. I literally just interviewed a Prime Minister the other day and I said, what do you know now that you wish you'd known? And she said, even when you're in the top seat, there's very little you can actually do.
- [14:55]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, right? I think that's largely true, but a lot of people would argue that a democracy is about having these gears that never move too fast, such that you have to be more thoughtful, even at the cost of bureaucratic.
- [15:07]
Unknown
I thought it was interesting you said that young people had a right to be angry or deserve to be angry. Do you stand by that when you think about that today, or in your words there, like it's the world that.
- [15:17]
Scott Galloway
You make it, young people to a certain extent kind of inherited a world that is sort of set up for them by people before them. But in the US and I'm not as familiar with this data in the uk, maybe you are. For the first time in our nation's history, a 30 year old isn't doing as well as his or her parents were at 30. And every year in the US we spend $12 on seniors for every $1 we spend on kids. The average seven year old in the US is 72% wealthier than they were 40 years ago. The average person under the age of 40 is 24% less wealthy. What seniors in the US have figured out is a way to vote themselves more money. And you could argue, well, if young people don't vote, that's going to continue. But children aren't allowed to vote. And every year young people transfer $1.3 trillion in the form of Social Security payments to the wealthiest generation in the history of the planet, seniors. So when you see the cost of education, the cost of housing skyrocketing, when you see massive prosperity and then it's rubbed in your face every day, 210 times a day, you're kind of reminded that you're not on a Gulf Stream or partying in Saint Barts. And it makes you feel bad about yourself. And meanwhile, you just see just the unbelievable economic growth and prosperity. But it doesn't appear that young people are sharing in it in the same extent. 40 years ago, 60% of 30 year olds had one child at least. Now it's 27%. It's because they've decided they don't want kids or maybe they just can't afford them. So when institutions like mine at NYU take pleasure in creating artificial scarcity so we don't let in as many kids as we could, such that we can drive up the cost of tuition faster than inflation and pay ourselves more for less accountability, and then we let people who own homes implement zoning and nimbus policies that make it very difficult for young people to afford a home. I think young people have a genuine, legitimate claim that the economy is not working for them. And the incumbents, specifically people my age, have weaponized government to transfer money from them to us.
- [17:05]
Unknown
What do you think is the core way that they have weaponized government to work for you? And what would you say is the best way to reverse that?
- [17:13]
Scott Galloway
Well, the tax code. It's the boring shit that moves the needle. So I make most of my money buying and selling stocks and companies. And we've decided that people who can do that should pay a lower tax rate. And the people that can do that are old and rich. Old, wealthy people make their money from buying and selling assets. Young people make their money from salary and working. Why am I paying 22% and the top income earner on current income is paying 37%? The second biggest tax deduction is mortgage interest rate. Old people own homes, young people rent. Why is the primary cost the biggest cost for old people tax deductible? But the biggest cost for young people is not. So even the two biggest tax deductions are just a transfer of wealth from the young to the old. So I think it starts with tax policy. Social Security tax. I make a lot of money. I pay every year $9,000 in Social Security because it taps out at 6% up until 160 grand. An analyst working for me that makes $160,000 also pays 9 grand. If you look at the tax code in the US and I apologize for deferring to the US but I just know more about it. The tax code's gone from 400 PA pages to 4,000. And those incremental 3,600 pages are basically full of loopholes for corporations and the wealthy to get wealthier and wealthier. So some solutions, I think you should eliminate the capital gain. I think we should have one tax code and it's AMT, it's non negotiable and call it 30%. 30%, you make over 100 grand a year, you pay 30%, you make over a million bucks a year, you pay 50%, which sounds like a lot, but Daniel Kahneman's research has shown above a million dollars you don't get any incremental happiness. Whereas if you, you have universal childcare or Medicare and you can take a household's average income from $30,000 to $40,000, it's a huge leap in happiness. So an alternative minimum tax for corporations and the wealthy. A tax holiday for people under the age of 30. More vocational programming that helps create more on ramps for young men that have been sequestered from them. National service. Mandatory national service so young people can find friends, mentors and mates. More third tax credits for third places so people can find places to meet each other instead of swiping. I think there's a lot of things we could do to reverse this really awful trend of obesity, anxiety and depression among young adults.
- [19:16]
Unknown
We said there's so many elements with every statement you say that I want to unpack. You said about children and people kind of delaying the decision to have children and then kind of merging that with the angry. I have so many female friends who are 35 to 40 who are partners at law firms, partners at venture firms, great, high, well paid jobs. They've crushed in and they're angry, Scott. They're told, hey, I've been told for a decade that work is the most important thing. Career, career, career. And actually I'm sitting here now where my eggs are not what they used to be, my fertility's not what it used to be, and I feel like I was misadvised by the system. What would you say to them?
- [19:49]
Scott Galloway
I think economic security is really important. I was raised by a single immigrant mother who lived and died of secretary. And the biggest source of stress in our life, quite frankly, Harry, was we just didn't have Enough money. And it was very. In a capitalist society in America, when you don't have a lot of money, even as a kid, I remember registering these little things. It's like a ghost is following you around telling you you're not worthy. I literally feel like there was this ghost following me and my mom around saying, you're not worthy. And I think poor people get those messages every day. And I think if you're a poor woman or a woman who doesn't have a lot of economic prospects, I think that's an ugly place to be. So I don't fault those women for wanting to excel academically and engage in the fruits of a capitalist society and develop economic security. I'm not sure I would advise them to have done anything different. The hard part is if you're going to have an honest conversation about mating, you have to have an honest conversation. And it's the following. The guy that takes that route and becomes a baller at a law firm becomes sexy. You make more money, you're more attractive as a man, you make more money as a woman, you're just a woman making more money. And so this sort of increase in mating opportunities for men who get more successful is exponential. The increase in mating opportunities for women as they become more financially viable is just flat. 75% of women say economic viability is hugely important in a mate. It's only 25% of men. So we have this kind of weird externality where as women become more successful, it doesn't mean they become more attractive to the opposite sex. But what we also have is that as women become more economically successful, their pool of viable mates goes down. Because women mate socioeconomically, horizontally and up, men horizontally and down. I'm a fan of this podcast called Modern Wisdom from Chris Williamson. He calls it the high heels effect. And that is the majority of women will not date a man shorter than them. Distinctive. What? They say that dating apps show that majority of women will not date a guy shorter than them. Economically, women are getting taller every year and men are getting shorter. So when you hear people all the time say, I know all these wonderful, attractive, high character women and they can't find a man, they can find a man, they just can't find a man they want to mate with because men aren't doing well. And as a result, there's a mismatch in attraction, and that is the pool of viable mates of horizontal and up for women who are doing well is shrinking because a woman who's a partner at a law firm isn't interested in dating a guy who's a high school dropout and is a mechanic and maybe making 60,000 a year and she's making 600,000 a year. Whereas if a guy's making $600,000 a year and a woman in PR is making $60,000 a year and she's attractive, those are considered viable mates.
- [22:20]
Unknown
I saw that you spoke recently about the kind of radicalizational antagonism within young men when it comes to the amount of swipes correlated to the amount of coffees on Tinder and dating apps. Can you talk to me about how you think about kind of male rejection through dating apps and how that leads to antagonism, tension against more things than just dating.
- [22:41]
Scott Galloway
The greatest innovation in history is not the iPhone or the semiconductor or vaccines. It's the American middle class. And you had this huge body of educated, progressive populace who was productive and created so much tax revenue and so many rights. And it became just this anomaly because typically the way societies work is that a small number of men get all the mating opportunities. That's been the natural order of things is that a very successful man can basically engage in polygamy. And at the end of World War II, we brought home 7 million men from overseas. They were in uniform, they had demonstrate heroism, we put a ton of money in their pockets through VH loans, National Construction, Highway Construction Act. Our manufacturing base was unbelievable. And there were a ton of middle class and basically we created a ton of very attractive men that women were attracted to. And we had the kind of middle class two car home. And the homes were so productive and so successful, they thought let's bring women and non whites into this prosperity. And they created a huge tax base, educated populace. And what we have now is I think we're reverting to the way the majority of history is and that is a small number of men who can demonstrate wealth or signal wealth online, whether it's through a Rolex or through slipstreaming into the information age economy, can have a date every night. If there's 50 men on Tinder and 50 women on Tinder, 46 of the women will show all of their attention exclusively to just four men, leaving 46 men to fight over four women. And the scariest stat I saw, I think you referenced, is that in order to get one coffee, a man of average attractiveness on a dating app has to swipe right or try and connect with 200 women to get one coffee. And then if he's fortunate enough to get five coffees, which took a thousand swipes, four of those five coffees will reconsider and ghost him and either not show up or cancel. And what this creates is a lot of resentment among men of average attractiveness. And then they become much more prone to misogynistic content, much more prone to nationalistic content. And this is a story as old of time. If you talk about young men who've been radicalized throughout history, generally they have a lack of romantic and economic opportunity. So what I see is a group of men who women find undateable, not economically or emotionally viable. And when a woman doesn't have a romantic relationship, she tends to channel that additional energy into much more productive things. Her friend network and her professional life. When a young man doesn't have the guardrails of a romantic relationship, he oftentimes channels that energies into video games, porn and conspiracy theory. And back to your point about women feeling like they screwed up. What the data shows is distinctive to kind of the trope of the woman who's lonely and ends up with cats, who's a partner at a law firm and is miserable. The majority of the data shows that actually men benefit more from relationships than women. Widows are happier after their husband dies, and widowers are less happy that men actually get more from a relationship than women. The absence of relationships, the absence of young people hooking up and mating and committing to each other actually has more downside impact on men. If a man hasn't cohabitated or been married by the time he's 30, there's a 1 in 3 chance he ends up a substance abuser. And men really need guardrails. I think young men, I think there's a lot of data that shows that while they're physically stronger, they're actually emotionally and mentally weaker than women. And without the guardrails of a romantic relationship or strong male involvement or a strong culture and a good job, they're much more prone to substance abuse. They're much more prone to risk aggressive activities, including gambling. They're much more prone to lower their risk aggression and find their friends through Reddit or discord jobs or trying to make money through crypto or stock trading. And you're a good looking guy, you care about the way you look, you care about your career, you signal a lot of very positive things that take a lot of work and energy. And I worry a lot of men are not making those efforts because they think, why make those efforts? Why go through that when I just have porn? So I worry a lot about young men and the lack of opportunities for creating a middle class through what I would hope is economically and emotionally viable men. I think remote work is a disaster for young people. I think they need to meet each other, learn how to read the room. I think a close second is the anti alcohol movement. I think the risk to a 25 year old liver of alcohol are dwarfed by social isolation. And when I was your age, I was drinking a lot and it helped me find friends and it helped me find potential romantic partners. As I got older and I got more serious about my career, I wound down my substances because like you, I said, all right, shit just got real for me. It was, my mom got sick, I didn't have enough money. It was very humiliating for me. So I thought, I need to get really, really serious about my career. And that involved a lot of things in my control, including dramatically reducing my consumption of alcohol and THC. 6% of kids or teenagers are clinically addicted to alcohol or drugs. 24% are addicted to social media. So I jokingly say, put down your phone, go out, drink more and make a series of bad decisions that might pay off. If you ask people to reverse engineer their closest friendships, their learnings around dating and romantic opportunities, did alcohol play a role in that? Almost everyone says yes. And then you say, was it a positive or a negative? If they're thoughtful and they slow down, most of them say it was a positive. I worry that this anti alcohol movement and people at home with Netflix, people at home because it's gotten so expensive to go out that people aren't bumping off one another. And if someone had said to me, here on a dating app is a list of the attributes in a picture of who ultimately I ended up mating with, I would have never chosen them. But it was being in the presence of them, getting to know them at work, hanging out with them in a friend group or a sports league, Having an opportunity for me to demonstrate excellence. If you talk to people who've been married longer than 30 years, 80% of them say one was much more interested than the other at the beginning. And it was always the man was more interested in the woman. Women have a much finer filter for mating because there's so much more downside to sex than there is for a man. But where do young men have an opportunity to demonstrate excellence? So they're all on the dating apps and all of a sudden it's about height and perceived resources. You've seen this trend on TikTok where they say, all right, describe your minimum height and your minimum income. 6ft 6 figures. That's 2.6% of the population of people who aren't married, aren't obese or under the age of 50. Whereas when you talk to married couples, you're like, yeah, I wasn't interested. But he was so good at what he did at work that I fell in love with him. I was at temple with him and I saw how kind he was to his parents and I fell in love with him. We were in guitar class together and I liked his hands. Where does a young man demonstrate excellence these days?
- [29:05]
Unknown
Social media.
- [29:06]
Scott Galloway
And then it comes down to hiding money.
- [29:08]
Unknown
Well, trying to be someone that you're not.
- [29:10]
Scott Galloway
Exactly.
- [29:10]
Unknown
Most of my feed is Scorpios or some bullshit Mykonos club where the Rolex is on and it's like with my.
- [29:16]
Scott Galloway
Filter that gives me a six pack, here I am on my jet. By the way, anyone who takes a picture of a jet does not own that jet. And we're creating unreasonable expectations for young people around what it means to be successful.
- [29:27]
Unknown
And also, did you always know who you were? I know it sounds like a weird one, but I've done what I've been doing since I was 17, so I've never really had adulthood without running my business. So I didn't really know who I am. It's why I never go on holiday. Because you're forced to reflect on life and I don't really want to reflect on life without work because I don't know who I am. Did you know who you were? Did you learn who you were from tough times? Good times?
- [29:51]
Scott Galloway
It's an interesting question. I think you're being hard on yourself. I think you've decided that you're first off, it sounds like you're very blessed and that you knew what you wanted to do at a young age. You know, when I was very young, I thought I was gonna be an athlete. At 17, I thought I was gonna be a pediatrician. At 22, I thought I was gonna be an investment banker. And then by 24, I was living with my mother and had no idea what I was gonna do. So you're sort of blessed that you had that kind of focus and drive at such an early age. That's a gift similar to you. Once I got going and got some professional traction, my entire self worth and identification was through my professional success or lack thereof. That's how I identify who I am. That's where I get my confidence.
- [30:24]
Unknown
Can I be blunt? What was economic security for you?
- [30:27]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I had a number two and I just, I Wrote a book on financial security. For me, it was like I wanted to assume that 4% of my number would give me passive income. That would be way more than I needed to live. Well, My number was 150 million because I thought it would be hard for me to spend half a million dollars a month, although I figured out how. And 4% of 150 million is 6 million, half a million dollars a month. I got there about 10 years ago. And I'm very open about money because I think when rich people don't talk about money, it's an accidental or purposeful means of keeping lower middle income people down. If you want to be great at tennis, you should talk a lot about tennis. Young people need to talk, speak to each other about money, their fears, their anxieties. It's helpful. I was very stressed out about money when I was your age. I didn't have a lot of it. So I think it's really productive, educational and cathartic to talk about money. But when I got to my number, I was still very ambitious. I got all of my self worth through money. My friends, my mating opportunities and all the incredible experiences and my power came through money. So I just naturally assumed that the more money I have, the more of those things I'm going to have. And then I had a couple fairly close friends pass away unexpectedly. That happens. You're young. When you hit 50, you'll lose a couple friends randomly, like strange genetic time bombs just go off and you'll have a friend die of six months in leukemia or some rare nerve disease. And it does inspire some pause or it did in me. And I thought to myself, I was in the midst of raising a private equity fund because I thought, you know what? Just deep down, I want to be a billionaire. Scott Galloway, Billionaire had a really nice ring to it. And I thought, I need to get to a billion. I raised some money or I got some money commitment. And then I had some losses in my personal life. And I thought, why on earth do I need to be a billionaire? I can do anything I want. And so a huge unlock for me was financially deciding, okay, And I do this every year. I look at my number, I know pretty much how much I'm worth. Goldman manages my money. They give me a number every year. And anything above my number, I either spend it or I give it away. I love to spend money. I'm really good at it. I'm an indulgent person. I do crazy fun things and then anything that's left I give away because I Think hoarding wealth is a virus, and I think it can train you to do the wrong things and focus on the wrong things. And then I thought, okay, I need a new purpose. My purpose used to be to establish economic security so I could take care of my mom, have fun, be interesting, be important, find a mate, take care of my kids. And I thought, I need a new purpose in my life. And I really spent a lot of time thinking, what is my purpose? And tried to establish a new purpose other than just being really rich and a baller, which had been my purpose up until the age of like. Like, you know, call it 45, 48. But what you're going through, it sounds to me like you've been very successful. You professionally identify yourself. And when you get to your number, what I think is really helpful is to say, okay, money is the ink in my pen. It can write new chapters. It can make certain chapters burn brighter. But it's not my story. And so to really think about what is my story, what is my purpose? No one's going to remember you in three generations, but in one, what would you like them to say about you? Right. What would you like to. Other than he was really successful, which it sounds like you are. What are the second and third things you would like them to say about you? I think it's a very healthy process to go through.
- [33:30]
Unknown
What would you like the next generation to say about you if I were to turn that on you?
- [33:34]
Scott Galloway
I think about, what are the three things you want in your tombstone? I want to be known as generous, patriot and dad. My purpose now is I want to raise patriotic, loving men. I have two kids, two boys. Do you have kids?
- [33:45]
Unknown
No, I don't.
- [33:46]
Scott Galloway
So once you have kids, everything kind of changes. That for me, has given me purpose. It's given me a sense of, okay, that's why I'm here. I'm here to produce two men who are generous, loving, kind, patriotic young men. That has given me a sense of purpose. It's a nice grounding for me, and I'm good at it. I don't think I'm great at it, but I know I'm good at it. And it gives me a sense of comfort in being such that I'm just not constantly thinking about how I get more aum and go buy a company or something like that.
- [34:13]
Unknown
What would you say to me, who's scared about having kids whilst maintaining being, like, top performance in work? My brother has a child. It's knackering. They cry at night. You have to give Them time, emotion, love. I can just be ruthlessly selfish right now. To what extent do kids impact performance?
- [34:30]
Scott Galloway
How old are you?
- [34:30]
Unknown
29.
- [34:31]
Scott Galloway
I see your kids. So at the age of 29, with a little bit of money, living in a city or a good looking guy, you're going to have a series of empty, meaningless experiences. But as far as empty, meaningless experiences go, they're going to be pretty good. So I'm not sure you need to be in a hurry to get married. What I would say to you though is that for most men, kids are motivating professionally because you realize it's no longer just about you. And you need to think longer term. You need to be thoughtful, you need to maybe pull in your horns a little bit. If you hit it big, diversify a little bit, start finding reward in different things. Reward in raising kids with a competent partner is really rewarding. I was not in love with my kid when it came rotating out of my girlfriend. I thought the whole thing was gross and weird and all I felt was fear that I wasn't making enough money. So it wasn't like angels singing and bright lights everywhere, but you fall in love with your kids and then it gives you a sense of purpose. It was very motivating for me. I was making just enough money to go to St. Bart's and date and give the perception of wealth and success. And I wasn't motivated to do more than that because I didn't have kids. Once I had kids, I'm like, okay, it's no longer about me. I gotta make a lot more money. I found it very motivating. And also there's something comforting. I don't know if you're going through this, but when I was single and making good money, basically Thursday and Friday was about lining up fabulous experiences with fabulous people on Saturday and Sunday. And it was like a monster or a dragon that could never be sated. I wanted more money, more experiences, more incredible events, hotter women, more sex, more events, hotter women, more interesting events, more money was never enough. It was like, I want more. I want fucking more and having kids for me. And I didn't want kids. I was forced to have kids because my partner basically said, I'm out of here unless we're having kids. But now I do have moments where my boys bomb into the room and we're watching some show or football and they throw their legs over mine naturally, just sort of instinctively, and the dogs roll in. And that's like the only time in my life I've ever thought, okay, this Is it? This is enough. I can't imagine nicer kids. I just can't imagine better dogs. Like, this is it. It's the first time in my life I've ever felt sated. And I can't communicate it to you. I can't convince you of it. The only way you can do it is to have kids. But what I would tell you, and I think there's research here, is that if you have economic security and you can find a competent partner, having kids is just an incredibly. It's the most rewarding thing I've ever done by a long shot. And I didn't want kids. And also professionally, I found it very motivating. So the notion that somehow it's going to slow you down. No, I think my guess is that's bullshit to excuse the fact that you're still in an arrested adolescent stage, having a lot of fun and have at it, have at it.
- [37:03]
Unknown
But what's challenging there is how do you know when you found the right person? And what I mean by that is like, no one is ever going to tick all of the boxes. How do you know when to settle with compromise versus look for perfection?
- [37:15]
Scott Galloway
Oh, I don't know. I think everyone's different. But for me, it was willing to throw up the deck of cards that was my life and let them land anywhere because I didn't want to lose this person. I had no desire to have kids. And this person made it clear to me that, okay, if you don't want kids, I get it, but I need to move on because I want to have kids. And so I was willing to reconfigure my life because the idea of not having that person in my life was really upsetting to me. You know, that either happens or it doesn't. The hard part is as you get older, you become more set in your ways. I would imagine what happens to the majority of us will happen to you. And that is you'll meet someone and you'll decide that the sacrifices are worth maintaining that person in your life. I think most men who are successful like the optionality of not being committed or married or having kids. And then I think what happens a lot is your partner's not up for that and basically says, okay, it's decision time. And you make that decision. And then hopefully you look back and think, that was a good idea, that was the right decision.
- [38:12]
Unknown
How many of your extremely successful billionaire friends have great family lives? I asked my mother on a walk the other day. She said to me, what gets worse with Money. I said the only thing I can think of is family.
- [38:24]
Scott Galloway
I don't know. Actually the majority of really wealthy people I know, I think there's a bit of a cartoon that wealthy people are crawled over. This sort of Bernie Sanders. I don't know how much you know about American politics. Yeah, sure, this Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, that all billionaires crawled over people to get there. I have generally found the wealthiest people I know, I probably know maybe, I don't know, a dozen billionaires generally what I found is that they're really good people. And the key to being a billionaire is establishing allies along the way. And that is people put them in a room of opportunity even when they're not in that room, because they're really high character, good people. So I think the cartoon of Monty Byrne starting the nuclear power plant and being a weirdo and mean, I don't find that's true. I find that the majority of really wealthy people I know are, generally speaking, especially ones who are self made, generally speaking are high character people. Now they're aggressive and can be brash or whatever, but generally I generally find they're high character people and pretty good family men. Married more than once, but generally speaking, I don't know if it's proximity bias. I got lucky with some of the people I know, but I have found that the unhappy billionaire who has a shitty relationship with his kids and has been married five times, that I find that's mostly a cartoon, that there's so much anxiety injected into relationships when you don't have enough money, that those are the people that have really dysfunctional families. My experience has been that actually wealthy people are both a high character, generally speaking and generally speaking have pretty good partnerships and pretty healthy families.
- [39:47]
Unknown
Have you ever felt as a father like you didn't meet the grade? There was a period where you didn't meet the grade, you weren't performing like you should have been, and you let them down as a father, oh, I.
- [39:57]
Scott Galloway
Feel that almost every day. The two people that make me more insecure than anyone in my life are my boys. Like every day I wonder, do my boys like me? And then when you recognize in a moment of clarity as a dad is like, they're not necessarily supposed to like you. You're not supposed to be their friend, you're supposed to be their dad. And I handle situations incorrectly. I over parent, I under parent. I know I'm a good dad, but I aspire to be a great dad. And I still don't think I'm there yet. It Is something I have not figured out. I'm hugely insecure around my fathering. It's something I struggle with. I have a kid who's applying to college, he's taken the act. I don't know how to thread the needle between telling him it's go time. Success is about knowing when to turn on the jets. This is that time. And at the same time, not putting too much pressure on a 17 year old who is already like studying all these subjects, trying to make the football team, get his IB scores up. The position I find most rewarding. But also the people I'm most insecure around in a weird way are my sons. So I think, I think I just decided that's part of it. Maybe there are some dads who just think, oh yeah, I'm a great dad, no doubt about it. But yeah, I struggle with what it means to be a good dad and how to manage it.
- [41:08]
Unknown
Did you have a good relationship with your father?
- [41:10]
Scott Galloway
This is very interesting. Cheap therapy. No, I mean, my dad was fairly absent. My dad was handsome, strong jawline and a Scottish accent, which meant in 70s Southern California could not only think with his dick, he could live. Listen to it. He's been married and divorced four times and as far as we know, and he's on his fifth wife, which is a woman I basically pay to be his kind of home health aide. He basically started his third marriage while he was still married to my mom. Left, moved to Ohio. It was a different age. It was the 70s. Kids were sort of like furniture. We didn't revolve our lives around kids back then. So I saw him holidays and summers. So he wasn't very involved in my life. But where I have forgiven my dad. And I'll put the question back to you about your relationship with your father. What was a big unlock for me was, I think we have an evolutionary obligation to just be a better dad than our dad was to us. And my dad was that my dad was physically abused by his alcoholic father. And when I recognized how his father treated him, he was actually very good to me. And that means he checked a box. I used to resent my father and have trouble, you know, sometimes being nice to him. One of my biggest unlocks was recognizing like, try and imagine what kind of son you want to be, Imagine what kind of friend you want to be, Imagine what kind of boss you want to be. Imagine what kind of partner, romantic partner you want to be, boyfriend and live up to that standard as opposed to doing what I did all the time. And I Manage my relationships like transactions where if I wasn't getting as much back for my emotional dollar, I no longer continue to patronize that establishment. And there's a problem with that because you'll always inflate your contribution to the relationship and minimize theirs. So I found it just much easier to say, what kind of son do I want to be? I want to be a generous, loving son that's really good to my dad. And the moment I just said, that's my benchmark. Not trying to measure, well, am I a better son than he was a dad to me? Could he have been better? And I'm angry. I just found that such an incredible unlock.
- [43:01]
Unknown
So you're willing to still be giving even if it's not maybe deserved or earned?
- [43:05]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, because I feel like that's the whole fucking point. That's the shooting match. You want to die. Like, ideally, I was a better son than my dad was to me. I was a wonderful husband. I was so wonderful to my kids. I got a lot of joy back from them. But on a balanced scorecard, I'm still in the net positive. I think that's the whole point.
- [43:24]
Unknown
So you don't agree with cut out people from your life who are negative energies, who are negative forces?
- [43:29]
Scott Galloway
Oh, sure, don't be. I mean, I shed friends all the time. I shed relationships. I used to be focused on business. You're in finance. It gets pretty brutal sometimes. And I've been, in my opinion, sort of not abused, but treated poorly by business partners, venture capitalists. And I struggle with anger. I thought, oh, I'm going to serve this guy a cold lunch someday. And it lives rent free in my head. And one of my mentors, Hamid Mogadam, said to me, he said, the best. He's like, you really want to get at this Guy was a VC of mine, the most powerful VCs in the world. Washed me out of my stake in my company, kicked me off the board. He's like, you really want to get back at him? I'm like, yeah, what are we going to do? And he's like, like lead a fucking amazing life. That is the best revenge. And so if I have a bad business partnership, it's something I'm proud of. I have never sued or been sued by anybody. If I have a bad relationship with someone or I feel like I've been wrong, I just don't work with them again. There are some friends in my life that slowly but surely I just do a slow fade from. I've never been tolerated an abusive relationship. Romantically, but generally with your important relationships, I think a healthy way to approach it is just say, I'm going to put away the scorecard and I'm going to focus on this aspiration of the kind of person I want to be in this relationship. And hold yourself to that.
- [44:39]
Unknown
Can ask, how did your relationship with your father change how you are as a father?
- [44:43]
Scott Galloway
Are your parents still together?
- [44:44]
Unknown
No.
- [44:45]
Scott Galloway
Do you have a good relationship with your mother?
- [44:46]
Unknown
Amazing.
- [44:47]
Scott Galloway
And do you feel that some of that. Is that when your mom and dad broke up, that you've held your. What I did was I sanctified my mom. My mom took care of me. She was in my mind and died early. So in my mind she was this saint and my dad was that guy off banging a steward of some Continental Airlines who didn't spend, didn't show up for my soccer games and abandoned me. That's how I saw it. And the reality is it wasn't that black and white. And my mom, to a certain extent, unwittingly, maybe kind of turned me against my father a little bit unfairly. And so as I've gotten older, I realized that nothing is black and white, that people aren't perfect. But you are in a situation now where you just have to decide where would you get the most reward in terms of your relationship with your father? An amazing relationship with your mother goes a long way. I had an amazing relationship with my mother. And when someone. I'm convinced that when someone tells you, and I trust and hope your mom did this for you, when someone tells you you're wonderful and loves you every day, you begin to believe it. And that's what my mom gave me. But in terms of the takeaway from my dad, in terms of what I've decided to do, I just try to spend a lot of time with my kids. I don't believe in quality time. I think that's a concept invented by wealthy people with no time who don't want to spend that much time with their kids and pretend they're good dads. I find the most important time with your kids and you have some time to figure this out is what I call garbage time. And that is the really amazing moments with your kids happen unpredictably. Driving them to school and they're not looking at you, and they're like, dad, I like this girl. And you're like, okay. And you don't say anything because those moments don't come very often. And you just let them talk and you don't look at them for fear you're going to intimidate them and you have like one of those nice moments with your son. And the only way you get to those moments is by spending a lot of time with them because they just happen totally randomly. But the way I have tried to overcompensate, the thing that really was rough for me with my father is my dad just wasn't around a lot. So I just want to be every day at 9pm Greenwich Mean Time, no matter where my kids are. One of my kids is at tennis camp in Florida. One is at boarding school. At 9pm I call my oldest, at 9:15, I call my youngest. And a lot of times they block my call or they're unavailable. But I know when they're older they're going to go be like, yeah, dad was self absorbed and into his own thing and flew off the handle sometimes, but called me every day, called me every day no matter what. So what I would say is just take from your father the things that upset you and try and correct those for the next generation. Right? Try and compensate and make sure that you don't fall into that same trap.
- [47:16]
Unknown
Did you find that money changed the relationships around you?
- [47:19]
Scott Galloway
My father's 95 and not doing well, so I can say this because he's like a baby now. He has no cognitive, he's not there any longer. My dad loves me more than my sister because I have more money than her. My dad was raised in depression era Scotland and was so obsessed with money because if you lived in Glasgow in the 30s and 40s, you could starve if you didn't have money. And he had some very weird things happen to him. He was in the navy for two years. Sent his money home because he got his money stolen his first two weeks on a ship. Sent all of his money home to his mother, came home and his mom had spent it on whiskey and cigarettes. So my dad just had a very unhealthy relationship with money and it scarred him and it scarred me because my dad was that guy who, he'd be in town for the weekend and he'd take me and my friend to go see a movie. And then he lined up, he'd ask my friend for two bucks at the end of the movie to pay him back for the ticket. The closest my father ever came to physical violence was when we went to a hotel and I'd never seen anything called a minibar before and I decided that I should eat and drink everything in the minibar. So he had a very unhealthy relationship with money. And the reason he came to be really impressed with me was because I made a lot of money. That's fine. I just recognize it for what it is. But for the most part, it's been a real nice thing in my relationships. It helped me take care of my mom, which was one of my objectives. And probably the most rewarding thing about making some money was I was able to take care of my mom towards the end. It removes stress from your life in terms of your kids and your partner. So on the whole, it's been a really wonderful thing for me. I enjoy it and feel like I'm good at it. You don't feel that way?
- [48:47]
Unknown
I do, But I do feel that people treat me differently now than they used to. People don't argue with me as much. People stop talking when I talk. When it comes to kind of family decisions, my voice matters much more than anyone else's. Why? Because I'll pay for it.
- [48:59]
Scott Galloway
But even the fact that you're self aware enough to know that I'm on constant editorial calls and the majority of my team is 24, 25, and some will disagree with me or say something rude, and I'm like, man, I'm gonna self fire that motherfucker. I get angry because I have such a big ego. And then what I realize with just a few minutes of reflection is it's really important you keep those people around you because you can start to believe your own press. And that's also one of the wonderful things about kids. Your kids are not impressed by your professional success at all. At all. As a matter of fact, they're totally unimpressed with you. Like, dad is lame. I'm literally the uncoolest person in the world in their eyes. But I definitely agree with you. Once you have money, people laugh at your jokes, people find you interesting, People want to know you. And it can lead to bad places. I have found as I got. As I've gotten older, I don't make as much of an effort with people. I went to this thing at the Tate last night, one of these fancy galas, and I'm so used to everyone wanting to know me and starting conversations with me. And I was sitting with these artists and I thought, I need to be less arrogant. I need to be more friendly and not expect everyone just to be asking me questions and wanting to know more about me just because I have money. Maintaining finding people in a practice that keeps you somewhat humble and grounded is really important. But even the fact you even recognize that means you're well ahead of where I was at your age.
- [50:14]
Unknown
Do you feel like the public snippets, the media tiktoks and reels that go around a view are a representation of who you ask. Just being transparent. I loved your content coming into this, why I wanted to see this show. But the person that I'm interviewing now is completely different in an incredible way to the image I had of you. Do you feel like the image is not aligned to who you are?
- [50:39]
Scott Galloway
No, it's an aspect of me. So I'm an introvert. I'm happiest after an edible at night, alone with my dogs, knowing my kids are safe, riding and just being alone. And when people meet me, they're generally disappointed. They think I'm going to be some fascinating guy full of. Of interesting data interspersed with dick jokes. I'm an introvert. I'm fairly intense. And so that side of me is a reflection or a personality or a side of my personality, but it's not. It's not me. And also social is the algorithms. Just love moments where you're making a puncturing statement or someone's calling you out. I don't think anybody who knows me, I don't know if you feel this way, would say, oh, yeah, that's who that person is. I try to be authentic. I try not to put on an act, but there's no doubt about it when the cameras go on and you know, it's showtime. My favorite thing is to be around my kids and not say a word and just listen to them and just be in the company of people. My partner consistently has to ask, encouraged me. It's like, make conversation, for God's sakes. You're so fucking boring. I'm paid to be an extrovert. I don't know if you feel this way. I'm paid to be an extrovert. So how I relax is I just like to listen to other people and be an observer as opposed to a participant.
- [51:45]
Unknown
I'm paid to be an extrovert, too. Can you help me out, Scott? I've so enjoyed this. All my relationships say I've had enough of brand Harry. The show's not on now. The lights are off. You can turn off the facade. And I've actually in many ways lost who I am because I'm always on show, that I've just become the on show version. Even when I'm at home on the sofa, there'll be a show.
- [52:07]
Scott Galloway
I mean, you're at a stage in your life. You're so young and you strike me as so self aware that you're just well ahead of where other people are. Just the fact you're asking these questions of yourself. I also think you're being a little bit hard on yourself. You've been very successful, you're in good shape, you're smart enough and self aware enough to know about these, you know, ask yourself these questions. The only advice I would give to a guy your age that I was, I did not engage, I wasn't very kind. All of my energy, all of my focus was how I become more awesome and rich. Not thinking about, well, I'm in a unique opportunity to accelerate people's careers. I'm in a unique opportunity to pay people a lot of money to overcompensate them. Young people admire me because I'm the head of this company. I'm in it. I have a unique opportunity that when they do a good job, to water them and make them feel great about themselves and just make their day. You know, you're an impressive guy, you have people who work for you. It's just so, such a incredible opportunity to just make people feel great all the time. And instead of paying someone a hundred thousand pounds, pay them 140. And that makes such a difference in the world. I wish I'd taken more advantage of the human capital I was possessing to improve people's lives. Everything was about fucking me and I feel as if I just wasted so much opportunity.
- [53:28]
Unknown
What would you have done differently? Just given more?
- [53:30]
Scott Galloway
I just would have been kinder. When someone did a good piece of work, I should have called them out publicly. I wasn't bad, I was never mean. You don't know how much power you have to improve people's lives. When you have some success, tip them 100 bucks, give some money away, tell people you love them, call your friends when they do something cool, and just tell them how impressive they are. You know, men have a tough time doing that with other men. If you're in a good relationship telling someone how much they mean to you.
- [53:57]
Unknown
Can I ask one final thing before we do a quick fire? We haven't talked about marriage. When you think about sustaining a marriage through wealth creation, through kids, through kids going to boarding school, what have been your biggest lessons on what it takes to sustain a truly loving marriage through very different cycles of life?
- [54:14]
Scott Galloway
It goes back to that first thing, first thing is put away the scorecard. Say, like, what kind of husband do I want to be? Like, write it out. What kind of husband do I want to be? And then live to that standard. Instead of saying, well, your parents were in town, you weren't very nice to my parents, so I'm not going to be nice to yours. Or decide what kind of husband. Don't keep score. Just decide, I want to be a wonderful husband. What does that mean? And live to that standard. Notice their lives. You're so successful that you're going to get so used to just everyone applauding for you. You need to take time to figure out a way such that your partner has stages that strangers and other people are applauding for her. Like really go out of your way to try and give her venues and arenas and environments where strangers can applaud for her. So it's just not always about your success. And you all the time always express physical affection and sexual desire. It says, I choose you. I think women want to be wanted. I think that's so important in a relationship. Like whenever you're feeling affectionate, whenever you want to hold their hand, whenever you want to more than you can, whenever you want to have sex, express that hunger, express that love, express that affection. I think it's really important in a relationship. And then try to take time to just appreciate and articulate, you know, what you've built together and really appreciate one another. I think the reason we get together is not to make more economic security or make children. I think it's such that we have someone to witness our lives, to notice our lives. And I've been married before and I think one of the reasons that I wasn't a great husband the first go around, I didn't witness her life, I didn't notice her life. Whenever she was upset about something. I just wanted to manage my way out of it because I didn't want to deal with it. As opposed to really listening and witnessing and noticing what was going on in her life and celebrating her victories and just taking notes. Because I was just. I was in a hall of mirrors. I looked outside the window and I saw myself so not keeping score, expressing physical desire, recognizing what you built together and witnessing their life.
- [56:07]
Unknown
Have you found a stage of marriage harder than others? Be it kids going to boarding school, be it changing countries, be it refinding a chapter of yourself, you know, becoming parents.
- [56:17]
Scott Galloway
Oh, there's a lot. I mean, the first time I realized I wasn't going to be able to have sex with other women, that was a real bummer. I miss that a lot.
- [56:27]
Unknown
Do you tell her that?
- [56:28]
Scott Galloway
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think she feels the same way. Little kids are hard, very stressful especially if you're both working. Really stressful. I barely even remember those two or three years, but I remember it being really stressful because she was working. My partner was working at Goldman. I was starting a business. It was a lot. She was up at 5:30 in the morning with two babies. I was trying to build a business that was really hard.
- [56:50]
Unknown
Do you agree? Never go to bed angry.
- [56:52]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. What I have a practice with my partner is that I get in bed no matter what time it is, I stay up late and it sounds very hallmark. I spoon her. So, yeah, we don't go to bed angry. And my partner is so vocal and willing to tell me everything. That's not ideal, that we don't. It's almost impossible. Things very rarely go unsaid. I would just say try to be more motive and tell people what you're thinking and if you're upset and be generous and listen to them. And everyone has their own dynamic. I don't know. The Northern Europeans just walk around Morosa all the time and it seems to work for them. I think a lot of it is just situational. But I'll go back to one of the things. I think it's just so important. You articulate how fortunate you are and we've built together. And I send my partner pictures of my kids when they were younger and I constantly highlight, wow, isn't it great that we can do this? And she will say to me, I'm really happy right now. And that makes me feel really good because I see it as a reflection on mine, my confidence as a man, that she's really happy. But all of this is situational. You know, it's the biggest decision you'll make. It's not where you work or where you live. Your biggest decision you make is who you decide to have kids with, because you're in that person's life whether you want to or not for 25 years. And so it's a really important decision. And I have a lot of very successful friends that have a really lovely spouse but not a real partner. And their life is full of unnecessary anxiety. And then I have friends who aren't that successful professionally but have a real partner and everything burns just a little bit brighter. So it's hands down the most important decision you'll make. And for a young man like you, all you want to do is be out a lot in meeting as many people as possible, but also giving stuff a chance and seeing where it goes. People would pray for your problems. You have everyone you listen to Everyone who hears you talk about your problems is going to go, I would kill for those problems. I'm not exaggerating, I'm embarrassed. You're the first person I told about this. I've been in a funk for the last 72 hours because there was a hugely successful IPO weeks ago and I had a chance to invest and I got the CEO texting me I was going to get allocation the ipo and I was just too fucking lazy to follow up. And this was a monster ipo. And all I can think about is the fact that I'm just so angry and upset and I'm embarrassed because I don't need more money, but I'm still just so fucking angry at myself that I miss this opportunity.
- [59:10]
Unknown
Why, though, if you don't need more money?
- [59:13]
Scott Galloway
Because it's hard to get off the hamster wheel of identifying your self esteem and your worth with money. And also, I would love a bunch more money to give away. And in a capitalist society, it's really sad, but the more money you have, the more power you have, the more virtue you have. We're willing to forgive a guy who disowns his children on podcasts and is being sued by two women concurrently for sole custody of their child and cuts off food stamps to kids and benefits to veterans because he's the richest man in the world. I mean, in a capitalist society, every signal is telling you there's never enough. So I think it's sort of a natural or understandable instinct.
- [59:47]
Unknown
Is there anything you would do differently if you had a billion dollars? What would you do differently?
- [59:52]
Scott Galloway
Oh, I'd give a lot more money away. I'm sincere. Anything above my number now I give away at the end of the year. I don't do it out of ethics or virtue. I do it because it makes me feel important.
- [60:03]
Unknown
Will you give your money to your children? Do you believe in inheritance?
- [60:06]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I'll give them some money. I'll give them enough money so they can always have a house. Oh, it's afforded education. I'll give them a start, but they won't hear it. I won't give them a ton of money. I'll give them. I love what Warren Buffett said. I'll give them enough such that they can do anything, but not enough so they can do nothing. I'll give them enough money so that they always know they can afford a home, afford their kids education, you know, which is a lot of money. I'm not interested in building a dynasty or anything like that. I know A lot of rich kids, they're not any less happy than other kids, but they're not any happier.
- [60:34]
Unknown
I know a lot of rich kids in London and they are not, they are much less happy. There's no reason to get up. They put most of it up their nose and there's no, there's no passion. I can get the Ferrari, I can get the Lamborghini. Why would I bother doing the work to get it? The joy is in the work.
- [60:47]
Scott Galloway
Having money is great, but it was the getting it that was really rewarding. Right. Did you grow up with money?
- [60:53]
Unknown
No.
- [60:54]
Scott Galloway
So you know what it's like. It's just so rewarding. I didn't either. It's so rewarding now to spend money that you made and have some success. That's just such a.
- [61:03]
Unknown
But I had this anger at society. I saw our family home be taken away and I had this ruthless desire for revenge against what I thought was a brutal and unfair system for taking my family home.
- [61:14]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, but those fires and that anger you were talking about rich kids. If my dad had been rich and I knew I was gonna have money, the only two things I know I would have in my life were a Range Rover and a cocaine habit. I'm not a self motivated, I'm a fundamentally lazy person. And not having money and growing up in America and just seeing how important it was and also feeling humiliation around not being able, when my mom, my mom got very sick and not being able to take care of her and having that amount of stress in a capitalist society in the US where you're underinsured and if you don't have money it's really difficult to deal with real illness. That was really, really motivating for me. And I think probably the same, that same disappointment and anger, those are embers that have burned and motivated and probably been net, net a positive for you. So recognize that those things you, it sounds like you channeled into very productive ambition and now take the gratitude and try and extinguish that anger.
- [62:13]
Unknown
Can we do a quick fire round? I've so enjoyed this. I'm going to say a short statement. You give me your immediate thoughts.
- [62:18]
Scott Galloway
Sure.
- [62:19]
Unknown
What one belief do you have that most people think would be insane?
- [62:23]
Scott Galloway
Well, on a practical level the young people need to drink more. I get a lot of pushback from that. But my source of power that most people don't engage in is I'm an atheist. I'm 100% convinced at some point I'm going to look into my kids eyes and know Our relationship is coming to an end. But it's hugely empowering for me knowing that everyone. I'm worried about what they think, worried about being shamed, worried about being embarrassed. It doesn't matter that they're going to be dead soon and so am I. So my atheism is like this incredible source of courage and comfort that I think a lot of people don't have the joy of participating in.
- [62:57]
Unknown
How does knowing that you'll be dead soon in the atheism change how you act on a daily basis?
- [63:02]
Scott Galloway
Most people don't start companies because they're worried about public failure. Most people don't approach a strange woman much hotter than them because they're worried about embarrassment. Most people don't ask for $30 million for their VC fund because they don't think they're qualified or they're worried about public embarrassment. Most people don't tell other people they love them because they're worried about it not being reciprocated. We're all going to be dead soon. It doesn't matter. Why wouldn't you take all sorts of risks with the. Even if it has a very outside shot of paying off, why would you be scared? Why would you care what the downside? And as long as you don't hurt people, as long as you're not taking stupid risks. If you want to score above your weight class economically and romantically, get out a big spoon, get ready to eat shit, endure rejection. And if you ask someone for money or a job and you don't get the money or the job, or you ask someone out on a date and you don't get the date, you're all going to be just fine. You're all going to end up dead. But the person who is unafraid and asks for all of those things every day ends up wealthier and with a higher character mate than their peers.
- [64:05]
Unknown
What were you most afraid to ask for? I'd say mine was like, we raised $400 million last year. I was fucking nervous about that. It was a 140 to 400. If it went wrong, I would have been Macaulay Culkin, the kid who failed and where is he now?
- [64:19]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I've always had that. I've always had a certain level of imposter syndrome. So I didn't think I was going to get into college and I didn't. And then I got in and I felt like I fooled them. And then I got into Morgan Stanley and I felt like it fooled them. But I've always done it. But I've always felt like imposter. If you don't feel imposter syndrome, you're either arrogant or not reaching far enough. So I'm consistently kind of embarrassed to ask for stuff. But I never got in the way. I got past that pretty early. One of the best things that happened for me was I ran for sophomore, junior and senior class president in high school and lost all three times. And based on my track record, I decided to run for student body president where I lost. I asked seven women to prom. All seven said no. And I think that has built a level. It didn't traumatize me. It built a level of calluses and scar tissue where I'm sort of of. I'm just not afraid of rejection. If I could teach my kids any skill would be one, to communicate, but two, to be able to endure rejection, to be able to mourn and move on.
- [65:13]
Unknown
What do you think is great communication?
- [65:15]
Scott Galloway
The ability to make people feel something. The communication that resonates for me with people is when I write about putting my dog down, when I write about coming home from a long business trip and noticing that my kids had grown and wondering if I'm, what's the point of all this success if I register my kids growth because I'm not home for two weeks? Something that makes people feel something where you talk about something in a very real vulnerable way and it makes people feel something.
- [65:39]
Unknown
You mentioned your father earlier. What are your biggest lessons from your mother?
- [65:42]
Scott Galloway
You know, unconditional love is everything like giving. I said this before. If you tell people you love them and that they have value every day, they can't help but at some point believe it. That's what she gave to me.
- [65:52]
Unknown
Do you tell your boys you love them every day?
- [65:54]
Scott Galloway
Every day.
- [65:55]
Unknown
What have you changed your mind on in the last 12 months?
- [65:58]
Scott Galloway
I'm very open to change, but I can't think of like any one big thing where I've changed my view on it that I'm drinking less. I've decided that I've always said I love alcohol. I've stopped. I've just substantially reduced the amount of alcohol because I realized my 60 year old liver isn't what it used to be.
- [66:13]
Unknown
I'm very passionate about being a good interviewer. I care deeply about telling people stories and bluntly having a great experience. When you reflect back on the many interviews that you've done for people that listen to you today and go fuck, he was great, what would you say other than this is the best reflection of you in an interview in a piece of writing in a article in your mind.
- [66:37]
Scott Galloway
I struggle with happiness. I struggle with anger and depression. I wrote a book called the Algebra of Happiness. I read every book and study on happiness and it's my least best selling book and that's what I want my kids to read.
- [66:48]
Unknown
Scott As I said, it wasn't the show I was quite expecting but this was incredible and it's one of the reasons why I love what I do doing shows like this. So thank you so much for doing this with me.
- [66:58]
Scott Galloway
Thank you and congratulations on all your success and don't be so hard on yourself. Forgive yourself.
- [67:04]
Harry Stebbings
I mean, I have to say shows.
- [67:05]
Unknown
Like that really remind me why I.
- [67:06]
Harry Stebbings
Love what I do so much. A huge thanks to Scott for being such a fantastic guest there. If you want to see the episode you can find it on YouTube by searching for 20VC. That's 20VC on YouTube. But before we leave you today, I love seeing the team come together to make this show happen. What I don't love is trying to keep track of all the information, the data and the projects that we're working on across dozens of platforms, products and tools. That's why we use Coda, the All In One collaborative workspace that's helped 50,000 teams all over the world get on the same page. Offering the flexibility of docs with the structure of spreadsheets, Coda facilitates deeper teamwork and quicker creativity and their turnkey AI solution. The intelligence of Coda Brain is a game changer. Powered by Grammarly, Coda is entering a new phase of innovation and expansion, aiming to redefine productivity for the AI era. Whether you're a startup looking to organize the chaos while staying nimble, or an enterprise organization looking for better alignment, Coda matches your working style. Its seamless workspace connects to hundreds of your favorite tools, including Salesforce, Jira, Asana and Figma, helping your teams transform their rituals and do more faster. Head over to Coda iO20VC right now and get six months off the team plan for startups for free. That's Codacoda iO20VC and get six months off the team plan for free Coda iO20VC and while Coda keeps our team aligned, Acuity schedule scheduling ensures our time stays on track. This show is brought to you by Acuity Scheduling, the flexible scheduling software that helps you focus on what matters most. Growing your business. With Acuity, you can manage your calendar. You can accept secure payments, offer clients a seamless booking experience that reflects your brand. I've been using my complimentary subscription, and it's been a game changer for staying organized and saving time. I especially love online booking. Clients can book, reschedule or cancel any time, and the booking page looks fully branded with my logo and colors. The calendar management tools let me set buffer times and sync with other calendars so I never feel overbooked. And with secure payments, I can collect deposits or full payments upfront through Stripe or PayPal, making the process smooth and professional. Head over to acuity scheduling.com 20VC for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code code 20VC20 to save 20% off your first Acuity Scheduling subscription. And speaking of incredible companies, don't forget what really keeps those customers coming back. Trust is the ultimate currency in business and today customers expect it faster than ever. And that's why over 10,000 global companies trust Vanta. Vanta automates up to 90% of the work for in demand compliance standards like SOP2, ISO27, 7001 and more using smart AI to centralize workflows, manage risk and get you audit ready in weeks, not months so you can stop chasing paperwork and start closing deals. And a new IDC report found that Vanta customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits. That's insane. And the platform pays for itself in three months. I had no idea about it. Whether you're growing fast or just getting started, Vanta connects you with trusted auditors and experts support to help you build trust with customers. Get $1,000 off your first year at vanta.com 20vc that's vanta.com 20vc as always, I so appreciate all your support and stay tuned for a fantastic episode coming on Thursday with Jason Lemkin and Rory o' Driscoll.