282. Dr. Taryn Marie Stejskal: You're Not Resilient. You're Just Coping. Here’s 5 Practices of Highly Resilient People

Summary

The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka

Episode 282: Dr. Taryn Marie Stejskal — "You’re Not Resilient. You’re Just Coping. Here’s 5 Practices of Highly Resilient People."

Release Date: June 30, 2026
Host: Gary Brecka
Guest: Dr. Taryn Marie Stejskal, PhD

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The Ultimate Human" is a deep dive into the contemporary science and soul of resilience. Human biologist and longevity expert Gary Brecka welcomes Dr. Taryn Marie Stejskal, one of the foremost voices on mental resilience, to challenge traditional views—arguing that most people are merely coping, not truly resilient. The conversation reframes resilience, explores its misunderstood qualities, and provides the five core practices of highly resilient people, including vulnerability, connection, and “gratiosity.” Dr. Stejskal shares powerful research, personal stories, and hands-on practices to help listeners move from survival to thriving—“bouncing forward,” not just back, from trauma and adversity.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. The True Meaning and Myths of Resilience

[00:09; 07:10; 09:41]

• Resilience isn't about being tougher, recovering “fast,” or suppressing emotion.
• It’s about recovery, listening inward, and showing up authentically.
• Quote:

  “Resilience is not about being tougher. Resilience is very much about recovery, about modulating our output, about listening to what's happening internally inside of our bodies.”
  — Dr. Stejskal [00:18]

• The “Teflon” myth of resilience (unaffected, stoic) is not only wrong but damaging.

2. Dr. Stejskal’s Journey: Research and Personal Story

[03:31; 32:37]

• Research with traumatic brain injury survivors: similar injuries, vastly different recoveries.

• Early studies identified connection and care for oneself as critical recovery factors.

• Her personal story: enduring a stalker as a teen and developing PTSD, and how reframing this trauma set her on a path toward helping others.

  Quote:

  “I developed PTSD for 20 years… I didn’t get the resources and the help that I needed. But that was a seminal challenge.”
  — Dr. Stejskal [37:19—38:59]

• Her pioneering work has interviewed hundreds and analyzed thousands of data points to unearth five practices shared by the truly resilient.

3. Five Practices of Highly Resilient People

(Sprinkled throughout, see [09:41], [13:33], [18:00])

1. Vulnerability (The Foundation):

   • Not hiding difficulty; being open (selectively) about struggles.
   • Emotional expression over suppression.
   • Quote:

     “Not demonstrating the impact of significant life events on us is actually the opposite of resilience.”
     — Dr. Stejskal [11:51]

2. Productive Perseverance:

   • It’s not just toughing it out; it’s knowing when to pivot, rest, or seek new strategies.
   • Assessing whether pursuit is wise—do you have the resources, skills, support, and guidance from people who’ve walked this path?
   • Quote:

     “People can’t give us directions to places they have not been.”
     — Dr. Stejskal [25:02]

3. Connection (Internal & External):

   • Quality relationships are a staple of longevity (Blue Zones research).
   • Connection with self precedes connection with others.
   • Quote:

     “The most valuable real estate is the real estate of our mind.”
     — Dr. Stejskal [29:42]

4. Gratiosity (Gratitude + Generosity):

   • The ability to find meaning in adversity and share those lessons generously.
   • Quote:

     “That also took me on this journey to doing this great work that’s so meaningful to me. That may not have otherwise happened.”
     — Dr. Stejskal [40:05]

5. Presence and Emotional Naming:

   • Powerful, evidence-based tool: simply naming what you are feeling (e.g., “I feel guilty,” “I feel scared”) diffuses its power.
   • Reframing: From guilt or shame to seeing the strength or value in actions taken.
   • Quote:

     “What am I feeling? Just being able to label those emotions actually reduces the power of that emotional valence.”
     — Dr. Stejskal [44:13]

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Memorable Quotes and Moments

• Reframing Adversity:

  “So often when we experience hard things, we want to decouple those hard things from the good things in our lives. And I just don’t think that we can do that.”
  — Dr. Stejskal [39:00]

• Practical Practice—Three Daily Questions:

  1. What brings me joy today?
  2. What am I most looking forward to?
  3. What would it look like to be the best version of myself today?
     — [58:47]

  “These are questions that get us back in connection with who we are … but it’s not like, ‘what gnarly thing happened in childhood that I’ve got to unpack.’”
  — Dr. Stejskal [61:57]

• Redefining Selfish, Selfless, and Introducing ‘Self-full’:

  “We’re given two choices: be selfish or be selfless. Neither are very good. … What if we could be self-full?”
  — Dr. Stejskal [54:20]

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Practical Tools, Advice & Research

Timestamps refer to introduction and deeper dives into these practices.

• Vulnerability: [13:33, 18:00]

  • Vulnerability is the first step in recovery and growth for both men and women, though societal pressures differ by gender.
  • “The first practice of highly resilient people is vulnerability.” [13:33]

• Emotional Labeling: [43:40]

  • Naming your emotions can diminish their intensity and help restore calm.

• Reframing: [48:25]

  • After labeling emotions, actively seek other perspectives—e.g., seeing discipline as kindness, not just guilt.

• Connection with Self: [28:31—29:54]

  • Checking in with your own thoughts, needs, and values; mindfulness, journaling, and daily self-reflection are crucial.

• Practical Exercises: [56:19—58:47]

  • The “three daily questions” for self-connection (joy, anticipation, ideal self).
  • Brief daily journaling is recommended but not required to be perfect—do it as needed.

• Self-fullness: [54:20]

  • Prioritizing needs to avoid burnout; balance care for others and self-care.

• Daily Habits for Resilience: [52:08]

  • Simple acts like going for a walk, breathwork, and giving yourself permission to pause and reset.

• EMDR and Resourcing (Trauma Resilience Tool): [64:00]

  • Bilateral stimulation (eye movement, tapping) helps process trauma and is a research-proven therapy.

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Impact of Connection and Isolation

[25:44—28:31]

• Longevity is deeply tied to a sense of community and both external and internal connection.
• Total isolation—such as in historical orphanage studies—leads to catastrophic outcomes, demonstrating the absolute necessity of human connection for thriving.

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Notable Soundbites

• “Not a single person that has experienced burnout, exhaustion, or overwhelm hasn’t first lost the connection to themselves.” — Dr. Stejskal [00:00, 54:35]
• “Resilience is very much about actually showing up and allowing people to have a window into what’s happening in our lives.” — Dr. Stejskal [11:51]
• “People can’t give us directions to places they have not been.” — Dr. Stejskal [25:02]
• “There’s a third choice: be self-full.” — Dr. Stejskal [54:20]
• "Gratiosity … is the generosity of sharing our experiences, leaning into vulnerability.” — Dr. Stejskal [39:52]

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Closing: The Ultimate Human

What Does It Mean to Be an Ultimate Human?

[67:49]

“The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things … to up-level a bit each day, week, each month … to find greater and greater opponents, to live at that growth edge. We might fail, might be defeated, but that’s how we know we’re working at the top of our capacity.”
— Dr. Stejskal [68:16]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:09] Misconceptions about resilience
• [03:31] Dr. Stejskal’s early research—traumatic brain injury recovery
• [09:41] The five practices of highly resilient people
• [13:33] Vulnerability and authentic recovery
• [18:00] Vulnerability vs. weakness
• [22:11] Productive perseverance explained
• [25:44] Power of connection—internal and external
• [32:37] Dr. Stejskal’s personal trauma and gratiosity
• [43:40] Naming emotions as an evidence-based technique
• [54:20] From selfish/selfless to “self-full”
• [56:19] Tools for reconnecting with self
• [61:57] Journaling and daily practice
• [64:00] EMDR for trauma processing
• [67:49] What it means to be an ultimate human

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To Learn More

• Follow Dr. Taryn Marie Stejskal: Instagram [@DrTarynMarie], LinkedIn
• The Resilience Leadership Institute: [website link]
• Dr. Stejskal’s Book: “The Five Practices of Highly Resilient People”
• Podcast links and further resources: See episode show notes

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This episode offers both a compassionate and actionable take on resilience—moving beyond “just coping” to genuine growth, possibility, and deep self-connection—the foundations for becoming your Ultimate Human.

Transcript

[A]

There's not a single person that has experienced burnout, exhaustion, or overwhelm that hasn't first lost the connection to themselves.

[B]

You've often said that you think that resilience is categorically misunderstood. And I think it has to do with a lot of how we handle and frame stress.

[A]

Resilience is not about being tougher. Resilience is very much about recovery, about modulating our output, about listening to what's happening internally inside of our bodies.

[B]

When you're going through some kind of traumatic event that you're trying to recover from, being isolated, not being vulnerable, not having a way to measure whether or not you're making any kind of success makes you less connected.

[A]

Resilience is very much about actually showing up and allowing people to have a window into what's happening in our lives.

[B]

What are some ways that people can get back in touch with who they are?

[A]

I think what we get to do each day is we get to ask ourselves three questions. The first question is. Ultimate human.

[B]

Hey, guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And I am super, super excited for today's guest because right before the podcast started, we talked about the holes in the industry, having done hundreds of these podcasts and interviewed some of the brightest minds, which are mentors of mine in longevity science. MDs, PhDs, researchers, people that are really moving the needle. This doctor is really moving the needle in the area of mental resilience. And I was telling her before the cameras started rolling, I think this is so applicable to so many aspects of people's lives, not just the people that are on this intense biohacking journey. So welcome to the podcast, Dr. Terence Tle.

[A]

Yay. You got it right.

[B]

Czechoslovakian background.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Way too many vowels in the same sentence.

[A]

I couldn't agree more.

[B]

But you coached me through it and, and, and we got there. Dr. Skull, I'm so excited. You know, one of the things I, I, I, I loved about your book, and we're going to get into your book in, in a minute, but I, I, I loved in doing the research to have you on the podcast is I think you are reframing the way people think about resilience, and I think you're reframing the way that people think about mental toughness. And there's a theme that runs through my podcast. So a lot of people that are very impactful, that are very inspired, that are Very passionate. Have solved some kind of problem in their life. And you were a neuropsychiatrist or working

[A]

in a neuropsychiatric psychology? Psychology, yes.

[B]

You were in neuropsychology? I want to say it was in Virginia. And one of the things that you noticed was that people that were recovering from traumatic brain injuries had vastly different recovery rates.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Some were sort of languishing from the injury. Others with similar or identical industries and injuries were thriving. And that was the genesis, probably the curiosity spark that kind of started you on this journey. I might even call it the Tipping Point.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Can you talk a little bit about that and where the journey went from there?

[A]

I would love to, and I. I love any opportunity that I can to go back to the genesis of where this all began. Because one of the things that I say in my book is I thank the people that trusted me 20 years ago to treat them in the midst of a life changing brain injury or spinal cord injury together, a neurological injury. And I knew growing up, maybe we can talk. I don't know if you did. Sort of this path that I wanted to go on, and this path was helping people be better versions of themselves and maybe even the best version of themselves.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

And so if you rewind a little bit before kind of the doctoral, postdoctoral, pre doctoral fellowship that I was on with the nih, you could find me in seventh and eighth grade with my own phone line. Right. Because this was before cell phones. Right.

[B]

Dating yourself there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And first we had call waiting and my parents couldn't. Cause they were like, all right, as long as you keep your grades up, you can have your own phone line. And so I would actually have people book times with me in the evening to call me about a particular problem that they had. Maybe they got a bad grade and they wanted to know how to tell their parents. Maybe they wanted to break up with somebody, maybe they liked somebody. All these things. Right. So I was sort of like the middle school consigliere.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right. So I knew I wanted to be a therapist. I knew I wanted to help people. So now fast forward to I get a master's in marriage and family therapy. I'm very interested in people's relationships and kind of systemic interactions. Right. Then I went to Virginia Commonwealth University where I was really interested in creating a protocol for people that had had brain injuries and spinal cord injuries. But again, thinking systemically not just about the individual, but you know, this. What's the impact of that injury not only on the individual But. But also on the family ecosystem, their significant other, their children. Right. Depending on the relation, their siblings. And so I started to notice, to your point, that people could have very similar injuries, but one person would get a lot better and one person, to your point, would languish. And so what we did was actually one of the first research studies. And I don't even think we used the word resilience at the time, but we did structured equation modeling, which just in statistics is a fancy model of saying, how do we look at all of these different variants, variables that we think might be happening for this person? And then what are the variables that are helping them get better? And what are the variables that tend to hold people back? Right. And we found some really interesting things. Right. So one of the things that we found was if someone has a brain injury, having small children in the home was actually contraindicated to getting better. I know, right. So surprising. Right? So contraindicated just meaning. Right. It doesn't help you get better. Better said more plainly, why would that be? Well, because someone who has a brain injury or a spinal cord injury needs a lot of care. And so if their partner or their sibling, if their time is divided with caring for younger children, that person isn't getting as much direct care from their family member. So we found a lot of really interesting things that helped us then create a program that helped the caregiver and the individual continue to get better over time.

[B]

Wow, that's really good. And you, you've often said that you think that resilience is categorically misunderstood.

[A]

I do, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And. And I'd love to. I'd like to unpack that because I think resilience to me means mental toughness, maybe physical toughness, the ability to just take stress, not talk about it. You know, kind of the old World War II mentality. Those guys just came home from brutal war, they threw a backpack in a closet, never talked about it again. And that can was considered the most masculine, resilient thing to do. And I think it has to do with a lot of how we handle and frame stress. Right. And. And caving distress or even talking about the stresses you have is. I think it's becoming less taboo, you know, and less a sign of weakness. You know, I've always felt that therapy is a sign of strength, not a sign of weakness. Raising your hand, being vulnerable is a sign of streng, not a sign of weakness. But I wonder if you'd unpack that.

[A]

Yeah, I. I love everything that you said about that. And I think it's really powerful because I think what you've sort of the way that you've talked about resilience right at sort of the outset in this conversation is the way that so many people still think about it, and it's categorically incorrect. Right? So maybe the first thing is to understand for your audience tuning in, how do I know so much about resilience? Right. How did I sort of earn the right to have this conversation here with you today so people can think about this information in that context? And so I experienced a lot of challenges early on, which we can talk about or not talk about in high school, in my early college years. And I remember thinking this whole experience of facing challenge, of facing change, of facing complexity, or the big three C's as I call them, it's really hard. And I don't know if the things that I'm doing are the right things or the wrong things. Right. And so what I set out to do starting in graduate school was to understand who are the people that are best at facing the big three Cs challenge, change, and complexity. So over the course of two decades, I've interviewed hundreds of people. We love us some research, do we not?

[B]

Yes, we do. I love it.

[A]

Interviewed hundreds of people and collected thousands of pieces of unique data to look at who are the people who face challenge, change, and complexity the best. And these are our most resilient people.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so what I found when I looked at that very large body of data is there's actually five practices that the most resilient people engaged in in those moments that allowed them to create more positive and productive outcomes in their lives. And so when we think about resilience, resilience is not. And this is where I think so many people misunderstand it and how I love how you kind of categorized how so many people are still talking about it. Resilience is not about being tougher. Resilience is not about going harder. And resilience is not about coming back from something as quickly as we can. In fact, those three things are the opposite of resilience. Resilience is very much about recovery. Resilience is very much about modulating our output. Right. And also very much about listening to what's happening internally inside of our bodies.

[B]

So can you give us an example of some, a challenge that somebody would, would, would have, where that they would be coming back from, for lack of better words, and, and sort of define what you mean in that moment? Just take any number of life events. They're divorced. There's bankruptcy, there's financial challenges, there's relationship challenges. Right. There's the stress of starting a business. There's a stress of running a family. And then there are direct traumas that are very specific. You know, the. The. The traumatic experience of losing a loved one or, you know, losing a relationship. So these are common experiences where I think we've developed this definition of resilience around, Right. Like, you know, you're done with that relationship. Just forget about that person, move on. Right. And then. And the proof of you being resilient is how quickly you move on.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right. And I think you're reframing that.

[A]

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's right. In the sense of, like, that's what a lot of people think. A lot of people see resilience as being synonymous. Teflon. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, how many times have I heard, you know, if I'm talking to someone or I'm part of a conversation, and they're like, oh, Todd, oh, you've been in the midst of a divorce. Oh, I didn't even know. I had no idea. You're so resilient. Right. And that's when I want to, like, wave the flag and say, no. Like, not demonstrating the impact of the significant life events are having on us is actually the opposite of resilience. And so often we think, I'm gonna have someone close to me maybe pass away. I'm gonna attend that funeral on a Friday or a Saturday, and I'm gonna be back in my seat at the office on Monday. And that's demonstrating resilience. Or so often I think we see with athletes, Right. Coming back too soon from an injury. Right. So the first one is psychological recovery. The second one is physiological recovery. And I think what we're prone to do is to say, oh, the most resilient people are the ones that come back the fastest. And actually, those are the ones that are most likely to engage in recidivism. Right. For their injury to reoccur for longer term, for there to be psychological impacts that haven't been dealt with as the result of this loss. And so resilience is very much about actually showing up and allowing people to have a window into what's happening in our lives. Right. Not everyone. Not the checkout counter at the grocery store or like, everyone in the pta. But the first practice of highly resilient people is vulnerability. Yeah.

[B]

You called it foundation, which I love.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And vulnerable. Vulnerable means I'm not going to pretend or hide from the fact that I'm going through something difficult.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I'm gonna lean into it almost. Because, you know, it's the same way with a lot of conditions that I see in clients of mine. If they have people like that have anxiety, don't fake anxiety. They fake being okay, which is not helping their anxiety.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right. And just because you're seeing this facade and not knowing that inside there's this storm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It. It tend. They tend to suffer on it. They tend to suffer for a prolonged period of time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they just get better at coping. Right. It's like I have a heavy backpack. I can just get stronger.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you're talking about ways to take it off.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, and also the sort of added psychological and physiological toll for us to be feeling something, to be in the midst of anxiety. However, we like categorize that or depression or some profound ptsd. And then on top of that, to be putting on a mask or be attempting to demonstrate that we are okay. So now we've got the psychological resources of navigating the anxiety or the depression or the PTSD or the loss and the psychological element of trying to demonstrate to the world that we're okay. Right. And that's exhausting. You know, we could take those resources that we're using to mask and actually re. Sort of distribute those resources toward dealing with the depression or the anxiety or the ptsd.

[B]

Listen, there's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here but my VIP community. That's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the Ultimate Human Community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than a hundred dollars a month. Your health is your wealth, and this investment pays dividends for Life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com VIP and step into your ultimate potential. Now, let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. You know, I talk a lot, and I've had a lot of guests on the podcast talking about why it is that 82% of all autoimmune disease is found in women. And there's zero evidence that autoimmune disease is selected by sex. There's a lot of evidence that it's selected by weakness. And you. You also have a unique way of tying in how stress and, you know, what is going on upstairs impacts the nervous system.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And how the nervous system influences much more than just what we touch and feel. And, you know, people understand our nerves to be the things that are sending those signals, but it also has a lot of governance over our immune system. And I. I want to keep on unpacking these stages that you go through in the book the Five. The Five Practices, But I'd love it if you would just divert to that for a moment, because a lot of people listening to this podcast and love these explanations, but they're like, well, what do I do about it? You know, I mean, I'm in the thick of it right now. So how. How do I wade through these events that I'm struggling with right now and persevere? You call it productive perseverance, which I think is an excellent way of reframing perseverance. So I'd love if you would un. Unpack that.

[A]

Yeah, ab. Absolutely. So I think what's really important for us to remember is that vulnerability is not weakness. And, you know, I'm a fan of Brene Brown's work and how she did so much to kind of be a groundbreaking person in the area of vulnerability. What I'm really excited about, the way that we talk about vulnerability with resilience and the five practices of highly resilient people is I think what happens is we claim new ground around the practicality of how to demonstrate that strong vulnerability. Right. And so when we think about autoimmune disease and when we think about 82% of those people that are suffering from those diseases being women, I think what we know is that women tend to internally process and hide their emotional experience as a way of not demonstrating weakness, as a way of showing up and taking care of the collective before they take care of themselves. Right. There's so many ways that I think women in particular do that. And so we can really think about vulnerability as being emotional expression as opposed to emotional suppression.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Emotional expression rather than emotional suppression. I like that. Yeah. And being comfortable expressing.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. And so one of the things that you might be thinking or your listeners might be thinking is like, okay, cool. So vulnerability, that's important, but what does that really have to do with facing challenge and resilience? It's a great question. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So glad everybody asked.

[B]

Yeah. I was top of mind.

[A]

And so what. What that. What vulnerability does is when I show up. Right. And I say, gary, I've got this problem that I'm going through. Right. And I'm vulnerable about that. I'm not masking now. What I'm doing is I'm creating connection between you and I. Right. A human connection. We know that. That helps us regulate our nervous system. Right. Suppress the sympathetic overdrive and enhance the parasympathetic elements of being restorative. Because now we're in conversation. So important. Right. And by being vulnerable, I'm actually getting access to information and to resources and to ideas that are going to help me solve this challenge, whereas if I just stayed quiet about it, I would only have access to the internal resources that I already have.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I had a couple of Navy SEALs on the. On the podcast, and they've had a big impact on my life.

[A]

And.

[B]

And D.J. shipley was one of them. And you know what he named. Seals are like that. That's the toughest of the toughest of the tough.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

Come back into civilian life, there would be this massive storm. You can call it PTSD if you'd like. And yet they just wouldn't talk about it. And the first time they actually started talking to some of their former teammates, they realized they were all struggling with the same thing, and they started reaching out for. For help. And they have a. They have a charity that sends veterans down for ibogaine treatments. And it's had massive impact on them. But clearly the first stage for them was being vulnerable.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think it's probably harder. I think men and women are not vulnerable for different reasons. Like, men, we want to wear the caregiver, the wear the provider with a hunter gatherer. So we need to be strong in that way.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And, you know, women are the pillars, usually in their family. You know, they're either running the family. They also have careers. They're. They have. They have a lot on their weight, and they get this caregiver syndrome of putting everybody's needs before the needs themselves.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So just raising their hand and saying, I'm overwhelmed, and I can. Can you. Can you define productive perseverance for us? Because you talk about in the book, what does it mean to be productively, to persevere productively.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. You know, so many of the models that I've seen on resilience, you know, talked about perseverance, and as I really thought about that, I was like, you know, perseverance in its own right, as a standalone, you know, sort of experience or concept is not resilient. It just isn't. And when we really think about that, we know people that have persevered towards goals, towards outcomes, towards something that was not productive because it just wasn't going to happen. It wasn't the right goal. It wasn't the right area of focus. And so productive perseverance, I think, is really two things. One, it's stress modulation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're not just going, going, going. I'm persevering, you know, like just running through walls every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so what we're thinking about is, am I on the right track in terms of solving this challenge, or do I need to adjust my focus? Do I need to think about a different goal? Do I need to think about a different strategy to get there? Right.

[B]

And how do you know that? How does somebody measure that?

[A]

Yeah, a couple things. So I think one is really getting clear with yourself. Do you have the right skills, the right support, the right resources, the level of acumen, you know, that is required to be the version of yourself that is going to be needed when you get to that goal. Right. Like, think about, you know, just Navy SEALs, I think, is a great example. Okay. So someone grows up, they want to be a Navy seal, but they've got to get clear with themselves. Do I have the resources to be able to handle that level of stress, those level of obstacles, and to be in combat, you know, at that particular level? So that's one thing. Two is, I think. And this is where a lot of people kind of go awry is surrounding ourselves with people who have done that thing. You know, what a lot of people tend to do is they tend to ask their friends and family, yeah, you know, should I become an entrepreneur? Should I become an actor?

[B]

Most of which have not done what you want to do.

[A]

Exactly. And what do our families say to us? They say, that is a terrible idea. You know, you're not going to make any money, you know, as an actor, an actress. Like, you're just going to be sort of like the working poor, you know, all these things. Right. So we get bad advice and we either don't do it or we're, like, really reactive and say, like, I'm just going to do it anyway. And so people can't give us directions to places that they have not been.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Right, yeah. And so surrounding our. Surrounding ourselves with people who have done something similar or have gone to where we're going allows us to understand. Is this goal for me and am I resourced to get there?

[B]

Yeah. You know, I. I love too, that you. You talk a lot about. You talk about it in the book, about connection. Because when you look at blue zone studies, big data studies, meta analyses, one of the common threads that runs through the people that are living the longest lives is that they have a sense of community and connection. And I don't think we really define that. And. And also I think that we're the most disconnected we've ever been.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

In recorded history. And interestingly, when I was in the mortality space, we knew that if you wanted to cut a human being's life expectancy in half, statistically in half. And I mean, at any age, you put them in isolation. Broken heart syndrome. There are lots of examples of this. Right. Isolation is so detrimental.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would assume that when you're going through some kind of traumatic event that you're trying to recover from being isolated, not being vulnerable, not having a way to measure whether or not you're making any kind of success. Right. Makes you less connected, makes you. Makes you more distant. I wonder if you agree with that, first of all. And then secondly, I wonder if you'd unpack the importance of connection.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And what. And what it is.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna throw out a percentage about how much I agree with your statement, and I will just acknowledge that it's not a real percentage for any mathematicians in the audience.

[B]

About 50.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or I'll cut it out the podcast.

[A]

Okay. You can always edit this out, right?

[B]

I won't edit it out.

[A]

I. 1600%.

[B]

Oh, awesome. I should have bought a lottery ticket.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

1600% agree with that statement.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right. Something that we watched when I was new in psychology, and this study took place during the Victorian era, so it's not near to us in time, but it's still very profound and also really upsetting to think about is in orphanages they were interested in what isolation would do to a newborn baby. So they took babies and they gave them sustenance. They gave them a bottle or a stuffed animal or whatever it was, but they didn't have anyone touch the babies. They didn't have anyone talk to the babies. It's terrible, right? When you really.

[B]

Hopefully this only happened once, right?

[A]

Yeah, we're just gonna. That's what we're gonna tell ourselves. Yeah. All of the babies died.

[B]

Really.

[A]

They had enough to eat. They had enough water, but without that human connection, they failed to thrive.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And that just gives me chills, Right. Not just because of the magnitude of sort of how awful that study is, but the deeply important impact of human connection in our lives. Now for each one of these five practices. Gary, I think there's something new that we bring to the table in the context of this conversation, and here's what it is. Relative to connection, right? Connection has two parts. The one that we most often talk about is the connection that we have externally to other people. The one that we don't talk about as much, first and foremost, foundationally, is the connection that we have with ourselves.

[B]

So good. I want to make a note on that, actually. I rarely take notes during podcasts, but I like that. Oh, well, I really do.

[A]

So let's just think about that for a moment. You and I have a connection. We have friends and family, blue zones. There's so much, you know, kind of data on that, and that's a very exciting topic. But before we get to our external connections, we get to think about our internal connections. Right, And. And what does that mean relative to, like, how connected we are to ourselves? I know so many people, and you do, too, who don't want to be alone with themselves, who don't want to be alone with their own thoughts, who are saying negative things to themselves in. I call it the real estate of our own minds. Right. We think that the most valuable real estate that we oversee oftentimes, Right. Is the primary home that we live in or the sort of investment portfolio of properties that we have. The most valuable real estate is the real estate of our mind. What we are saying to ourselves about ourselves in the context of our thoughts, constantly, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you and I, you know, we love. We love peptides, we love supplements, we love hydrogen, we love weighted vests, cold plunges. We love. All love those things.

[B]

Sing it, sisters.

[A]

Right? And that's a way of optimizing our physiology. That's a way of optimizing our physiology. Right? But if we rewind. It's our cognitive resilience, right? We can optimize our physiology without really focusing on what it is that we're saying to ourselves in the real estate of our own minds, our confidence. Do we believe in ourselves? Do we like ourselves? Do we even know who we are and what we want out of life? Do we take, Take time to reflect, to ground? All of those things are part of connection, but we tend to leapfrog over the connection we have with ourselves and instead think about the external connections before we really delve into the internal connections.

[B]

Wow. I love, too, that you invented a word, which, by the way, I'm going to adopt and put into my repertoire. You call it gratiosity. Um, and this was very interesting to me because it was a reframing of a lot of life events. And, and I've actually, there's a friend of mine, they call him Dr. Rewire, and I have seen him, in a group of people, take someone's most traumatic life event. And I sat in a room where people confessed very horrible things that happened to them. And what he did was he actually walked them from that event to how it manifested in a positive way in their life. And literally, like, he went in there and dug it out, put a bright light on it, and then it almost acted like a seed to grow this new reframed view of that event. Sometimes we get into a bad relationship, and the hardest thing to do is get out of that relationship. But then afterwards, we find a real relationship, and you're like, had that not happened, I wouldn't have this person in my life today.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And so tell us how you came up with, with gratiosity, which I love the word, by the way. It should make it into the dictionary.

[A]

I think so, too.

[B]

I think so, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I'd like 15 of everything that comes from that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trademark word.

[A]

You heard it here first, folks.

[B]

Yeah, you heard it here first. But I, I, I think that the way you explain it, you know, I think it allows people to digest it and maybe put in, put into practice in their life. So what is it, what does it mean? And are, are you reframing the way that people think about trauma or traumatic events?

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. So something that I think adds value to share here is my personal story, which is, you know, these are the best. Yeah, it's, it's, it's very much out there on the Internet. It's within the first, you know, probably 30, 40 pages of my book. I talk about one of those Significant challenges that I faced growing up. And for me, I had a stalker who came to my bedroom window. And it started when I was 14 years old. You know, my parents have this little house in Ann Arbor, Michigan in a ground floor bedroom.

[B]

Oh, gosh. That's like the scariest thing for a young female.

[A]

The scariest thing ever. Yeah, yeah, right. And when it started, you know, it was in the morning, one morning before school, and I was getting dressed and it was like 6am and it's dark outside, right? And so I had my, my blinds, you know, down over the windows, except one window kind of had this little like crack at the bottom with the screen. I was getting some nice fall air in. So I'd gotten dressed, you know, for school and I went over to turn off my stereo. Right. And for anyone who's listening in, who doesn't know what a stereo is.

[B]

Yeah, you just have to turn these things off, guys.

[A]

Right? Just see us after.

[B]

True.

[A]

We'll explain things like vcrs and butter churns.

[B]

Thing that looks like this is actually a phone.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Why it is. I needed to have my own phone line. Right? We'll break it all down.

[B]

Well, because you were running your own hotline. I mean, that's good. You were an entrepreneur in eighth grade.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. These days people are like, doesn't everyone have their own phone line? Like, you know, we're talking about like

[B]

the little spinny cord.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So. So I see this face at the bottom of my window, right? And he stands up, the light goes down his face. Now, as a 14 year old, and this is how our minds work. When something happens in our life that doesn't make sense, what we do is I, we scan, you know, our, our mental information. We try to find information to make it make sense, right? So what I came to very quickly was like, oh, my dad must be outside playing a trick on me, you know, so I'm like, dad. And he's like, take off your clothes, you're beautiful. And I'm like, definitely said that. He said that, right? I heard his voice.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

You know, and so I run from my room and I call for my parents and the police come make a police report. And the police officer says, you know, this is probably just somebody passing through the neighborhood, you know, probably some kid pulling a prank. It's just a fluke, right? So every time I got scared, I would just replay the, replay those words, right? It's just someone passing through the neighborhood, probably just A fluke. Six months later, I've got my blinds closed on that window that's on the driveway, but there's another window in the back of our house. Right. I don't think we had air conditioning at the time. So I've got this window open in June, and I've just finished trying on these new clothes at the mall, and I hear his voice again, and he says, I've been waiting a long time for this. So creepy, right? The creepiest. Yeah. And in that moment, you change your clothes?

[B]

Basically, yes. Wow.

[A]

Yeah. He'd been waiting for this opportunity to, like, see me, communicate with me. I'm, like, 15 now. And so in that moment, Gary, three things happened. Right. One, I realized this wasn't a fluke. Two, my childhood bedroom, which. Which should have been the safest place for me.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Became categorically unsafe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And number three, when I was calling for help, no one could hear me. And so I picked up the phone and I called the police myself. I dialed 911 myself, and he said to me, in that moment when I was calling for help, he said, no one can hear you. No one is gonna come and help you. Right.

[B]

He said that?

[A]

He said that through the window? Yes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your parents weren't home?

[A]

My parents were traveling on a trip, and we had some babysitters staying with us that had little kids, and they were, like, upstairs doing the nighttime routine with their little ones so they, in fact, couldn't hear me. And he knew that. Right. Like, he'd cased the joints.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right. So why do I tell you this whole story? I tell you this whole story because there's some other things that happened after that, but as a result, I developed PTSD.

[B]

Oh, no doubt.

[A]

For 20 years. Right. And going back to the vulnerability. I'm so good at talking about vulnerability and talking about its importance because I've been so bad at it. Right. Like, I hid that PTSD I didn't want anyone to know about, you know, this hyper vigilance that I had, these noises that I heard that weren't there. Right. Like, all of these things.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And so for a long time, I didn't get the resources and the help, you know, that I needed. So going back to your initial question. Gratiosity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Is I can now look at that experience and say, I'm grateful that happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wouldn't want to do it again, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

[B]

How do you reframe that into being grateful for it?

[A]

Yeah. I Reframe that. There's some other things that happened that sort of make the story a bit more horrific and traumatic, but we'll skip over those.

[B]

It continued.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. But here's the way I look at it. That was a seminal challenge. Right. Or like a. Like a core experience or a core memory that actually set me on the track to say I need to understand how to deal with challenge. Because this is way too overwhelming for me as a 14, 15, 16, 17 year old kid. Right. If that wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't have written that book. If that wouldn't have happened, maybe you and I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation today.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and so I live a life that I love. I have children that I love. I have a partner that I love. And I think so often when we experience hard things, we want to decouple those hard things from the good things in our lives. And I just don't think that we can do that. Right, Right. So I look at that experience and I say, I wouldn't want to do it again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right. I wouldn't want someone else to have to go through it. But I'm grateful that I did and I'm grateful that I can now tell the story generously. Right. That's the other part of gratiosity is the generosity of sharing our experiences, leaning lean. The generosity of sharing our experiences, leaning into vulnerability. Because I also can't tell you how many people have reached out to me and said, thank you for sharing your story.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To know what you've accomplished after what happened to you gives me hope for my own situation, for my daughter's situation, for my son's situation, for my family member, for my friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that gratitude comes from the sense of like. That also took me on this journey to doing this great work that's so meaningful to me. That may not have otherwise happened.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, it's really interesting as I think, about the way that you're describing that story and how you're drawing it into some of your successes in life. It probably is very helpful to people to, to go back to these experiences that they have. And that's a pretty grave one. And I imagine the story gets much darker but to, you know, like, like my friend Dr. Rewire, you know, to reframe that so that it, it doesn't wash that experience away. It doesn't just say, I'm going to pretend like this never happened, but what it does is it allows you to, to move forward because now you have a reframing of this experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'd love to just zoom out for a minute and just kind of land all of this. Right. Because you've got an amazing granular explanation of why vulnerability is important and connection is important. What does this look like in a practical person's life? What are some practices that they could do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To draw their awareness to this. Aside from read the book and I'm sure a lot of people are going to read the book and I will put links to it in the show notes. But what is it, what is a practice of somebody who's, who's, who's living this kind of life? Because every single one of us has junk. That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not the, not the backyard, not

[A]

the, not the good kind.

[B]

Just baggage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what are some practical things that we can do? What are some practices that you think,

[A]

sure, people can engage in? I'll give you some evidence based practices and then I'll also give you some other things that I think I have found anecdotally to be really helpful. But I don't know how much evidence is behind them. Let's start with evidence base. I'm a big believer in simple is powerful. And so let's go back to, for a moment, if, if you're grappling with some element of anxiety or depression, whether you're, you know, meeting some, you know, diagnostic criteria or not, or ptsd, all of us get in a moment where we have this like kind of overwhelming sense of, I'll call it like diffuse emotion. Right. Like I know I'm feeling bad. Right, Right. There's so much evidence actually behind taking a step back and naming that emotion or those emotions. Right. Just getting out of the sort of amorphous. I Feel bad.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And thinking about what it. What am I feeling? Am I feeling disappointed? Am I feeling anxious? Am I feeling scared? Am I feeling unsafe? Am I feeling a sense of being on edge, like something bad's gonna happen? Right. Like just being able to label those emotions actually reduces the sort of power of that emotional valence in a really significant way psychologically. There's tons of research.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

On this. Yeah.

[B]

Naming it.

[A]

Naming it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right. Just naming the emotion. Right.

[B]

And what does that allow you to do? It allows you to kind of diffuse it a little bit and say, yeah, I'm. I'm feeling guilt. I noticed, for example, my wife, when she has you, you're. You're a mother of five in a blended family. I'm a father of four and a blended family, so. Which comes with its own complexities. And I won't say challenges, because I. I love every single day of it. You know, I have three children. My own. I have another from my most recent marriage to Sage. Just as much of a daughter as my own kids or sons and daughters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I notice that, you know, sometimes when my wife and her daughter interact and she has to be a disciplinarian, then she feels this massive load of guilt, and it makes her sad. And I wonder if reframing that to identify those emotions would really help help deal with that.

[A]

Yes. Yes. I love where you're going with this. So the first step. So reframing, I would say, is a second step that we can take. The first step is, what am I feeling? Right. And I think so many people are really afraid to ask themselves that question. Why? Because I think we've been taught that our emotions are dangerous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's what can cause harm. Is my emotions not the issue? But that's.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My reaction to the issue.

[A]

Yeah. Like, what if I. What if I reach in there and find that I'm angry?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What am I going to do with that? Right. And so recognizing that our emotions are just information, they can't hurt us. You know, but what happens is emotions are like one faucet. You know, it's either on or off. So if we blunt all of our emo. All of our emotions, we can't feel the good emotions, the happiness, the joy. Right. And we also protect ourselves from sadness and anger. So finding a way to kind of turn that fossen back on starts with being able to name what is the experience that I'm having in this moment. Okay. So then we'll use Sage as an example. Thank You, Sage, for generously.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I throw Sage under the bus all the time. I mean, her. Her stuff is on the street. Hormones, emotions, like, poor wife of a biohacker, you know?

[A]

Right. And, you know, I'll just say, like, I've felt that exact same feeling, right? Like, my son didn't do all of his laundry one time, and I'd gotten him these new clothes, and he wanted to wear the new clothes. And I just sit down with him and be like, look, you said you were gonna do all of your laundry and put it away at the end of the weekend. Now it's the end of the weekend, you haven't done it. So I can't let you wear the new clothes because you haven't taken care of what you have. And it was like there were tears, right? And they were his tears and my tears.

[B]

Because now you feel bad because he feels bad. Exactly.

[A]

And it's like, oh, did I go too hard? And as a parent, did I do the right thing? Thing? And I'm not. You know, it's. It's the uncertainty of all of it. Right? And so. So if we say in that. In that moment, okay, I'm. I'm. I'm feeling guilt, I'm feeling fear that maybe I didn't do the right thing, maybe I came down too hard, maybe I've irreparably damaged the relationship, you know, that we have, like, all those things that we feel as parents. Right. And then I think we can go to kind of like the restorative practices. Right. So one of the restorative practices that you mentioned is reframing, Right. And to say, how could I reframe that experience from guilt to something else? What are the other ways that I could think about this? Well, I could think that I'm being assertive. I could think that I'm being kind, because I'm creating clarity. I'm not allowing the child to just get away with something.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know that actually, because we had that tough conversation and. And we were very honest about the issue, that that's ultimately going to bring us closer, not drive us farther apart. Right. So there's lots of ways that we can then say, okay, reframing as one tool to be a restorative practice, to say, how can I think about this differently?

[B]

I love that. It's. It's. I think what you're. You're doing, in a sense, is returning power back to us. Because I think especially with trauma, people feel powerless because once something has happened, you can't make it Unhappen.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So your choices are cope with it, get stronger, bury it, avoid it or lean into it. Yeah, embrace it, reframe it. So it has less power over you. So kind of a good. Because I think, I think, I think experiences and trauma and has too much power over us.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And yeah.

[B]

And yet we don't have the tools to reduce its grip on us. And I think someone with your background, when I want to go back to your original work where, you know, the spark that lit this whole flame for you, these people that were recovering from these brain injuries, did some of what you are preaching now, some of what is in the book. Did you realize you were applying it back then or did you realize people that were missing these back then were not doing as well in the recovery phase?

[A]

Yes, absolutely. What we did, you know, sort of, kind of, I love this bookend. Right. Is we actually used that study that we did and again, I don't think we use the word resilience, but it was very much about like, what are the things that add resilience or detract.

[B]

Is this published? Is this something I could link? Okay, great, I'll do that.

[A]

Yeah, I'll find it for you.

[B]

Okay, great. Yeah.

[A]

And so I lost my train of thought. Okay, so we did this study, right. And so then we were like, okay, in academics, let's make a program. Let's make a program to give people the tools, right. That are going to make an appreciable difference in their recovery as the person who sustained the injury, but also for the identified caregiver or caregivers. Right. And so what we actually did did was create a 10 week program and we sat down with families for two hours for five sessions and there was a week, you know, or so between each session. So over the course of 10 weeks, you've got five, two hour sessions, they've got homework and we're actually teaching skills. One of the things that we talk about in psychology is psychoeducation. So psychoeducation means I'm. If you're experiencing depression, I'm going to teach you about depression. If you're experiencing anxiety, I'm going to teach you about anxiety. Right. So you are kind of armed with this information to know what you're dealing with. If you have a brain injury, I'm going to teach you about your brain injury. Right. And if you have an injury, say in your left temporal lobe that is most likely to affect your speech and language center. Right. So we're Going to teach you about why are you having trouble speaking, forming words, remembering words, communicating. Right. Whereas if you have a brain injury here in your prefrontal cortex, that's our executive functioning as, you know. Right. It's going to, you're going to have trouble planning, organizing, managing time. You might do things that are abrupt or spontaneous if you, you know, so we're going to teach people about their brain injury. But then we also took specific skills around communication, managing anxiety and depression, which are two common things that people experience, both the person that had the injury and the, the caregivers. And so we also gave them the tools to be able to navigate those things. And the outcomes were incredible.

[B]

By the way, what were some of those tools? Because I think, you know, for example, I'm a big fan of breathwork, of grounding, of, of walking, you know, getting out into sunlight. You know, there are whole eastern philosophies of medicine that have been using forest bathing things for centuries.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I find that a good brisk walk outside will solve just about anything. You know, just when you're in a really tense moment, or you're just really tired after lunch, or you just, you feel like you're completely overwhelmed. And when you're overwhelmed, your, your normal response is to bury yourself more in the task. To get these emails out of my inbox, return all these phone calls. But sometimes, you know, I just give people the grace to say it's okay to take a break and grab a bottle of water and just go out for a 10 minute walk to nowhere and come back. What were some of those tools that you gave to these families?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And that you would recommend today?

[A]

Yeah, so a couple of things that I think about that, you know, would have like a sort of a broader applicability. One is we worked with caregivers a lot on how they could make themselves a priority, you know, and I think that, like I said, has broader applicability. Right. Beyond just, you know, sort of pure caregiving. One of the things that I talk about in the book specifically for women is we're sort of given two choices. You can either be selfish or you can be selfless. Neither are very good. Right. Like no one wants to be identified as a selfish person. Right. A lot of times we give women compliments that like, you're so selfless. Right. What does that really mean when we think about that, Gary? It means that I've sort of disappeared into my environment. I don't have needs, I don't have wants, I don't have an identity. I'M just giving it all away. And over time, what that means is I'm. I'm not attending to the connection and the relationship that I have with myself. And so what we attempted to give caregivers and, And I think what's important for all of us is to think about a third way. You know, I love the third way. And it's, what if we could be self full? What if.

[B]

Are you making up a second word? Because you. I already gave you one word that you made. True.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did I put two in the dictionary?

[A]

Did I meet my word makeup quota for the show? I might have to come back next time. Yeah. So. So we have self full. Right. And I talk about this in the book. So when we think about how rampant burnout is exhaustion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Overwhelm. There's not a single person, and this is so important, that has experienced burnout, exhaustion or overwhelm that hasn't first lost the connection to themselves.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The definition of burnout, exhaustion and overwhelm is like we've pushed beyond the boundaries of what is mentally or physically possible for us. And so when we maintain that connection, when we become self full, it's like, how do I fill my cup up so that I can then go on to be the best version of myself, not only for me, but also for the other people in my life?

[B]

Yeah. That is so empowering, I think is the word. I think, you know, first of all, I would recommend that everybody read the book. I love that there are practical steps in there to walk people out of these things. I think, you know, it's back to that old adage that, you know, I mean that, you know, you put your own oxygen mask on before you even assist your own child, like maybe going inward and getting back to the relationship you have with yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, I, I'd love to just touch on that point for a moment because I think it brings all of this together. What are some ways that people can get back in touch with who they are? Right. Because, you know, we know that connection is important and we call it. It's a purpose, you know, which leads people to be very passionate. What are some exercises? Are they quiet breathing? Is it mindful meditation? Journaling? What are some ways that they can actually get back in touch with themselves and build that connection with themselves?

[A]

Yeah, I love this question and I also love how you talked about the oxygen mask. I think that's still so powerful for people today. I want to add an additional metaphor to that before I talk about some of the strategies which I think you're going to like.

[B]

Okay, I love them already.

[A]

So we talked about earlier before the show, sort of the heart. Right. And that it only, like, kind of pumps like 30% of blood through the body. And so when the blood comes into the four chambers of the heart. Right. And the heart, like, reoxygenates that blood, where does it pump the blood first? Pop quiz.

[B]

You want that medical question? It goes first to the lung. Goes right oracle ventricle lung, left oracle ventricle body.

[A]

Yeah. So I've had a lot of physicians tell me that the heart gives itself oxygenated blood first.

[B]

Yes, Right. That is absolutely true. It goes first to the heart.

[A]

What about that metaphor? The heart that supports our entire body? I mean, isn't this a beautiful, like, physiological metaphor?

[B]

Great point.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Oxygenated blood coming back from the lung first to the heart. Right.

[A]

Because if the heart doesn't work, nothing works.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right. So the heart gives itself the oxygenated blood first. So then we can think about in our lives, how do I give myself that oxygen first to make myself sustainable. Okay, so how do we do that? How do we get sort of in touch with ourselves? Back in touch with ourselves. Right. I think what we get to do each day is we get to ask ourselves three questions. Right. The first question is, what brings me joy? It could be a different answer every day. It doesn't have to be something big. It could be, I saw these beautiful puffy clouds on the horizon. I saw the sun glinting off the water. What's bringing me joy today? Right. Question number one. Question number two, what am I most looking forward to? Right. This is really powerful because anyone who has anxiety or depression or has experienced trauma is oftentimes either stuck in the present, you know, feeling like a catastrophe may happen at any moment, or is looking back in the past. So when we ask ourselves, what am I most looking forward to? It takes us into that future valence and allows us to imagine, what's that positive thing that I'm going to do next?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And then. Thank you. And then the third question that we get to ask ourselves is, what would it look like for me to be the best version of myself today?

[B]

Oh, I like that, too. Yeah. Because that also helps to set your priorities. And I think a lot of times we set goals and then goal kind of sits out there in the not so distant future, but it's not in our face, so we don't do something right every single day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But say that last one again.

[A]

What would it look like for me to show up as the best version of myself. That is it today.

[B]

That would be an awesome. I mean, I almost think I can see myself look, writing these three questions in a journal and just hitting those each morning. I have a short little practice of gratitude that I do in the. In the mornings. I used to think that was just complete voodoo nonsense. I used to also think grounding and breath work was nonsense. But. And I would say, but here we are. Yeah, but here we are. Here we are. You know, I built an empiring breathwork and grounding, but. But it really has, you know, for me, the fact that it's portable, but I don't actually ever go in and sort of reframe my thoughts or. Or set that intention for. For my day. I'm going to do it and let you know how it goes.

[A]

I would love that.

[B]

And maybe we'll make up a third word on our own.

[A]

I like that. I like that. It's. It's. It's high time you and I developed some more vocabulary words. Yes. I see this partnership very clearly. Yeah.

[B]

If you know me, you know I don't recommend anything I haven't personally tested. That's not a marketing line. That's just how I operate grade. I've been on the road my entire career. Different time zones, brutal schedules, no margin for days off. And so I'm constantly testing what actually works in my own body. Ned was something I keep coming back to. It's the molecule your cells use to produce energy and repair, and it declines faster than most people realize. When I found Symbiotica's liposomal nad, the absorption technology is what got my attention. I tested it, I felt it, and it's been in my bag ever since. I'm always evolving what I put in my body, and this one has stayed on the list. I'm genuinely excited for you to experience it. This is the standard we hold every product to before it even reaches you. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. No, but I think these are. These are so helpful. They're so practical. And, you know, every guest I've had on it, I got get little pieces of life advice. You know, my Navy SEAL just told me to. To prepare my. My. My socks, my shorts, and my workout shirt with my shoes before I go to bed. Let me tell you what, that has saved me 20 minutes, six days a week, every day since he's been on this podcast. And thank you, DJ Shipley. But. But this is. Is. Is something that's easy, practical, can be done in the quiet of this is just you with yourself.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Where you don't mean. You probably have less of a tendency to put on that facade, because I'm not trying to give the answer to you and hope that you like it. It's just, this is me with myself. I'm. I really. I really do like that.

[A]

Thank you. And what I'll just add on to that briefly, is these are not invasive questions. You know, a lot of people say, I don't want to journal because I don't want to ask myself hard questions, you know, Or I'm not good at journaling. I ask people like, how can you not be good at journaling? Like, well, I don't do it every day. Well, you don't have to do it every day. Do when you feel like doing it, you know? So these are all questions that I think inform, like, get us back in connection with who we are. But it's not like, what gnarly thing happened in childhood that I've got to unpack.

[B]

Yeah. Every day, going into the pain, Joe Dispenza talks about that. How the vast majority of us wake up and we're not even present. We think about the last traumatic event that happened. Argument we had with our spouse yesterday, a business deal that went sideways. So we wake up in the past, and we're already framing our day based on what's behind us.

[A]

I've got to tell you something, and I want you to just kind of track the conversations that you're in and just see what you notice. We are so primed to think about what could go wrong.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Or the horrible thing. So I've noticed this in, like, dinner parties and our family conversations, Right. You say anything like, pizza delivery guy, right, And I can almost set my watch to it. Somebody will be like, oh, I knew a pizza delivery guy in my hometown, and he went to this house, and things went terribly wrong. And it was like a horrible, like, double homicide or whatever, you know? And it's like, wow, we just went from, like, pizza delivery guy to double homicide in, like, 10 seconds, you know? So we're so primed to, like, think about the worst thing. And having that awareness of, like, how can I pull myself out of that and really be a good steward of my own mindset and that connection that

[B]

I have with myself, I think we're just primed to. It's threat avoidance. You know, there's. There's even some evidence around horizon gazing and scanning your horizon to really calm the nervous system and Feel like you're not stressed.

[A]

That actually comes from emdr. Do you know that?

[B]

I did not know that.

[A]

Yeah. So emdr. Do you know that? Practice. We'll unpack it another time, but essentially

[B]

throw it out there.

[A]

It has a ton of evidence behind it in terms of treating trauma and what it's about engaging both sides of the cerebral hemisphere to process trauma. So it's often done with either the eye movement going back and forth, so scanning the horizon, or it can be done with tapping to engage the alternating sides of the cerebral hemisphere. But what you do is you have talk therapy and you do EMDR at the same time. And that actually helps people reintegrate their traumatic experiences by engaging both halves of the brain. And the traumatic memories don't get caught somewhere in processing.

[B]

Ah. And they're also not so prevalent.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Okay. That makes. That makes a lot of sense to me. I do. When I do my breath work, when I do my breath holds, I gaze out on. You know, I'm on the 21st floor of a condo, and. And so the horizon, I look out over the water horizon, I just pick a point as far out as I can see. And while I'm holding my breath, I just look out there. And then I'll just gaze left and right. And it does seem to very much be a calming exercise.

[A]

There is a tremendous amount of research evidence behind this.

[B]

I am happy to hear that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm on to something.

[A]

You really are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought I was just scared.

[A]

Add this to your protocols.

[B]

Yeah. You know, Wim off was the one that told me about that, but I've been doing it for. For years. If. And if I miss my breath work session in the morning, I can feel it. It's almost like missing a cold plunge. Like, I can feel it almost the rest. Rest of the day. Sometimes I'll just go out later and. And. And do it. Wow. This has been really, really helpful and amazing, and I'm sure my audience is going to be very engaged with this book. If my audience wants to find you, where do they find you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Find out more about your work.

[A]

Absolutely. So I think a lot of people show up in our lives on Instagram and in our LinkedIn accounts. My Instagram is Dr. Taryn Marie.

[B]

Taryn Marie. See, you don't have to deal with this day's goal.

[A]

No, we keep that off to the side as much as we can as pesky silent J and all that stuff. Right. You know, we've got the book, we've got the resilience Leadership Institute, which are all really exciting. And I think, you know, this is really a great conversation for, you know, the two of us and for those people in our communities that want to think about the integration of both the physiology and the mindset element to be able to, say, amplify resilience. You know, I think that's the really exciting integration with where we are in the forefront of all of this. It's like we're optimizing our physiology, you know, with all the things we talked about, peptides and cold plunge and all that stuff. How do we also optimize our mindset along with that? Right. To. And to really amplify our resilience? So that's the conversation that I think is really exciting that we're having here today. And for people that want to continue in that vein, finding me on Instagram or LinkedIn or the Resilience Leadership Institute is a great place to do that.

[B]

Perfect. I'll put all of that in the show notes. And I wind down all my podcasts by asking all my guests the same question. I can't wait for your answer.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

There's no right or wrong answer to this question.

[A]

Aerosmith. Aerosmith was my first concert.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to be your favorite band. It's deeper than that. All right. What does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

[A]

You know, there's a writer that I love, Maria Rainer Rilke. Do you know his things? And one of my favorite quotes from him, he talks about that life, the purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things.

[B]

Wow. Purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things.

[A]

That's right. And so what does that mean? It means we're up leveling a bit, you know, each day, each week, each month. So for me to be an ultimate human, I think it's connected with what Rilke said, which is to be defeated by greater and greater things. You know, to find greater and greater opponents, whether that's health, whether that's fear, whether that's pushing ourselves into our potential or our possibility, and really living at that growth edge of, like, we might fail, we might be defeated. Right. But that's how we know that we're really working at the top of our capacity. Yeah.

[B]

And you feel alive in those moments.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I even think about going back to the grind when we first started building our business, and sometimes I kind of miss the grind.

[A]

Oh, everybody misses the grind.

[B]

The real grind.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

I mean, I'm still in the Grind. But. But like four people in a hotel room, middle seats on Frontier Airlines.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Red eye flights. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, trying to just build your business and get your word out there. And it's like, you're the most alive because it was survival. You had to pay the bills and this had to work out. And I think there's a certain. Certain sense of, like, really feeling connected and alive in those times.

[A]

It's. It's all of the passion and all of the vision without the evidence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That what you think can be will actually exist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And. And there's. It's. It's very courageous to be in that moment, to be creating something and believing in something before we have evidence right in this moment that that can actually exist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so therefore, when we look back on those times. Right. I mean, it's. It's. It's awful. It's. It's exhausting. It's. You know, we. We maxed out our cortisol levels, you know, on the regular.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

But then we go back and we say, like, how courageous was it? Like, that was the grind, that was the hope. That was the, like, wish and a prayer. But before I knew any of this could be.

[B]

Yeah. Well, Dr. Stasko, this has been absolutely amazing. I hope you'll come back on the ultimate human podcast. My VIPs are have some great questions for you. They've been waiting for you. Can't wait to get into those questions. If you're interested in becoming a VIP, you can go over to the ultimate human.com forward slash VIP and you can join our private podcast. I hope that you enjoyed Today's podcast with Dr. Stacekal. I will put all of what you discussed linked into the show notes. And until next time, that's just science.