El Mencho's Heir Takes Over CJNG!

Summary

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Podcast Summary: El Mencho’s Heir Takes Over CJNG!

Podcast: The Underworld Podcast
Episode Title: El Mencho's Heir Takes Over CJNG!
Date: April 28, 2026
Hosts: Danny Gold & Sean Williams

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the recent upheaval within Mexico's most powerful cartel, the Jalisco New Generation Cartel (CJNG), following the dramatic death of its notorious leader, El Mencho (Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes). Journalists Danny Gold and Sean Williams break down the complex criminal pedigree of El Mencho’s stepson—Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez—who is now seen as the likely new head of CJNG. Along the way, the hosts unravel the tangled family dynamics, discuss the evolution of Mexican cartels, and reflect on the broader implications of this recent power shift for Mexico, the U.S., and international organized crime.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fall of El Mencho and Its Immediate Fallout

• El Mencho (Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes), leader of CJNG, was killed in a U.S.-backed raid in February 2026 ([10:48]).
  • His death triggered a wave of violence—blockades, street battles, attacks on Mexican security forces—and significant chaos, including in cities slated to host the World Cup ([11:16]).
  • “His death triggered an attack on the state by his cartel soldiers that saw dozens of Mexican security forces killed. Terrorist zones shut down, blockades, things being set on fire, chaos at the airports, violence and massive insecurity nearly across all of Mexico.” —Danny Gold ([10:48])

2. Cartel Succession: The Rise (and Limitations) of 'Nepo Babies'

• El Mencho’s direct heir, his son El Manchito, cannot assume power—he’s been imprisoned for life in the U.S. ([14:32]).
  • “He showed a natural aptitude for it and was a major player since he was a teenager. Also half brother of our man from the Cold Open.” —Danny Gold ([13:58])
  • Manchito's incarceration left a power vacuum in CJNG’s leadership structure.
• New focus on El Mencho’s American stepson, Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez (a.k.a. El Pelón, Tricky Tres, R3), as reported by major media including the Wall Street Journal ([15:36]).
  • “Gonzalez isn’t just your run of the mill Nepo baby replacement, though. For one, many seem to think he was the lieutenant or top level guy with...the most internal respect in CJNG.” —Danny Gold ([15:58])

3. The Cartel Dynasty: From Avocados to International Narcos

• The Gonzalez/Valencia family background: originally wealthy avocado farmers in Michoacan, they leveraged their agricultural business as a front for narcotrafficking, growing into a multi-cartel enterprise ([18:13]).
• The family founded or splintered into several notable groups:
  • Millennial Cartel (Cártel del Milenio)
  • Los Cuinis (financial arm/money laundering specialists)
  • CJNG (Jalisco New Generation Cartel), eventually helmed by El Mencho ([19:55]).
• Rosalinda Gonzalez Valencia (“La Jefa”), El Mencho’s wife and El Pelón’s mother, is herself a high-level operative and financial architect of the family’s operations ([17:32], [37:51]).
  • “She is indeed the chief of hitmen for Nacho Coronel, but he lacked the lineage that Rosalinda, his wife, possessed.” —[Reads from Mexican media] ([27:02])
• Inter-family and inter-cartel alliances, marriages, and betrayals have repeatedly shaped the Mexican criminal landscape.

4. The CJNG Structure and Evolution

• CJNG’s rise was fueled by:
  • Ruthless violence (notable early example: ambush of 15 police officers in Jalisco, 2015) ([03:35])
  • Early adoption of methamphetamine and fentanyl production at a massive scale ([28:07])
• Los Cuinis: At times a “parallel but allied” cartel, functioning as the CJNG’s financial wing, masterminding international money laundering operations through an impressive portfolio of legitimate businesses ([31:54]).
  • Quote: “They control a vast fortune… have assets everywhere in South America, in Europe and Asia.” — Wall Street Journal / Owen Grillo ([32:49])
• The militarization trend: CJNG (like rivals such as the Zetas) developed paramilitary enforcement wings; El Pelón led “Delta Group” (elite mercenary commandos, allegedly trained by Colombian ex-military) ([39:38]).

5. The Profile: Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez (“El Pelón”/R3)

• Born 1984 in Santa Ana, California, stepson to Mencho and son of La Jefa, nephew to multiple cartel bosses—a product of narco dynasty ([34:39]).
• Credible operational experience: Linked to kidnappings (notably of 'Los Chapitos'—El Chapo's sons—in a restaurant raid in 2016), assassinations, attacks on state officials ([37:38]).
• Not flashy; reportedly respected internally for competence and low profile.
• Subject of narco corridos celebrating his loyalty and prowess (“Routes, shipments, trucks, and planes. We are in charge of the cartel…” —quoted lyrics, [40:28]).
• As of now, widely believed to be the new boss, but some analysts question whether he has enough support to consolidate power ([49:00]).
• Notably a U.S. citizen, which may complicate U.S. intelligence targeting and legal strategies ([49:45]).

6. Cartel Politics, Succession, and Law Enforcement Dynamics

• Succession drama: While some speculated La Jefa (Rosalinda) or other high-ranking lieutenants (“El Jardiner,” “El Toad,” “El Yogurt”) might take over, most sources point to El Pelón as the consensus choice ([47:48]).
• Analysts suggest the CJNG may be more prone to fracture in coming years, much as Sinaloa has splintered.
• U.S. law enforcement faces unique legal hurdles in surveilling and pursuing an American citizen cartel boss abroad—requiring extra legal justifications ([49:45]).
  • “Under the rules for surveilling Americans overseas, the US would usually need to get sign off from the Attorney General and also persuade a secret foreign intelligence surveillance court...” —reads from Wall Street Journal ([49:45])
• Yet, hosts agree these are surmountable obstacles, and large-scale U.S./Mexico cooperation in this fight is likely regardless.

7. Broader Context: What’s Next for CJNG & the Mexican Drug War?

• With the death of Mencho and the arrest/extradition of other leadership figures (including Los Cuinis’ Abigail Valencia in 2025), CJNG faces a crucial period of transition ([44:24]).
• Major upcoming events, such as the World Cup in Guadalajara, raise fears of cartel violence, but also incentives for cartels to avoid jeopardizing their vast business interests ([52:49]).
• The hosts reflect on the persistent influence of cartel wealth in local economies—as both a stabilizing and corrupting force.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cartel succession and "nepo babies":
  • “Now, unfortunately for Mencho's legacy and for El Manchito, he's been locked up in the US since February of 2020... So his ability to take over the leadership is non-existent.” —Danny Gold ([14:32])
• On the CJNG’s financial sophistication:
  • “As someone who literally just had to set up one LLC, it is insanely impressive that these people do this without any real education... mapping it out, running all these businesses, I mean, they're doing it at a scale that's hard to fathom.” —Danny Gold ([32:49])
• On the allure and risk of family business in the underworld:
  • “The difference in the Italian and Jewish mafias in the 20s and 30s... The Jewish mafias did not want their kids to go into it. With the Italians, it was kind of like a hereditary thing—but that wasn’t always the case, obviously.” —Danny Gold ([35:23])
• On American law and cartel warfare:
  • “Under the rules for surveilling Americans overseas, the US would usually need to get sign-off from the Attorney General and also persuade a secret foreign intelligence surveillance court...” —Wall Street Journal quoted by Danny Gold ([49:45])
  • “If we're being honest, if they want to keep an eye on the dude... they’re just gonna do it.” —Danny Gold ([51:55])
• On the stakes for Mexico in the aftermath of Mencho’s death:
  • “We have embarked on this route, and there is no turning back. One Mexican official said, otherwise they can kill us all.” —Quoted from the Wall Street Journal ([54:09])
• Cartel nicknames & humorous asides:
  • “The Gardener… seems like a cute, fun nickname until you think about why you would call a cartel leader the Gardener.” —Danny Gold ([47:54])
  • “Tricky Tres… I actually like, or R3. Tricky Tres, I shouldn’t say it with a fake Spanish accent. That’s terrible.” —Danny Gold ([33:09])

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Key Timestamps

• [01:35] — Introduction to the Sinaloa-CJNG rivalry and the daring Puerto Vallarta restaurant kidnapping
• [10:48] — Mencho's death, U.S. involvement, and consequences across Mexico
• [13:58] — Succession challenges: Menchito’s arrest and imprisonment
• [15:36] — Introduction of Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez as new probable leader
• [18:13] — The millennial cartel; Valencia family’s criminal origins
• [27:02] — "Diplomacy via marriage": how Mencho married into cartel royalty; Rosalinda’s pivotal role
• [31:54] — Los Cuinis and the intersection of finance, family, and cartel operations
• [39:38] — El Pelón: operational profile, rise in the cartel, paramilitary groups
• [47:48] — Theories on succession; possible contenders; ultimate rise of El Pelón
• [49:45] — US legal hurdles in pursuing/surveilling an American-born cartel boss
• [54:09] — High stakes for Mexico: World Cup, cartel’s future, and government responses

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Tone & Style

Danny and Sean maintain their signature balance of in-depth research, gallows humor, and a conversational, unfiltered journalism style. They riff on the complexity of drug war reporting, joke about international travel disasters, and poke fun at both narco-culture and their own roles as storytellers.

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Final Thoughts

The collapse of El Mencho’s reign sets the stage for a new generation of cartel leadership—one deeply entangled in family networks, endowed with both business acumen and a reputation for violence. Whether Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez will consolidate his power or witness further cartel splintering remains uncertain, but the hosts agree: the underworld’s dynasties are as fluid and formidable as ever, and Mexico’s next chapter in the drug war is just beginning.

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Transcript

[Sean Williams]

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[Sean Williams]

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[Danny Gold]

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[Amy Morin]

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[Danny Gold]

August 2016 in Jalisco, Mexico. It's the end of the summer and the cartel underworld is dangling on the edge of something big. Only a few months earlier, the unthinkable happens. El Chapo, the most infamous cartel boss in the world, is captured by Mexican forces, locked up and then set to be extradited to the U.S. his cartel, Sinaloa, that once appeared to be unstoppable, is starting to show cracks. And nobody knows how things will go down between the upper echelons of Sinaloa, Chapo's kids replacements dubbed Los Chapitos, and his longtime partner, El Mayo Zambada. And as these things go, when a cartel starts to show weakness, or when there's even a hint of weakness suspected, the other players in the game start calculating and waiting to make their move. Is a relatively new upstart group, the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, led by the shadowy and brutal El Mencho, descended from remnants of the millennial cartel. When it fractured around 2009, the CJNG, as it's known, are on the rise, thanks to a penchant for extreme violence and and a fearlessness that borders on reckless. They've been growing from a regional powerhouse into an organization that had the potential to eclipse even Sinaloa. And they are making their presence known only a year before they kill 15 federal police officers in Jalisco in a single ambush. Suffice it to say the princelings of Sinaloa should be keeping their heads on a swivel. But alas, they're not. Maybe they're misinformed. Or maybe when you grow up as the sons of one of the most powerful drug lords to ever exist, you just kind of feel like you can do whatever you want. That's really the only reasoning that makes any sense for why Ivan Archevaldo Guzman and his brother Jesus Alfredo Guzman would casually decide to dine at the upscale La Lecha restaurant in Puerto Vallarta, Jalisco, the stronghold of their upstart cartel rivals. In the CJNG. 4.4 in Google reviews, quote innovative Spanish inflected cuisine with local produce in a whimsical all white space plus a bar. Maybe not that whimsical, because what happens there is that around midnight, seven or so masked gunmen storm into the restaurant. Like an elite tactical unit, they quickly separate six men from the party, leaving behind a bunch of women, and take their new prisoners hostage. It's all done in a couple of minutes. It's professional, to say the least. It's an incredibly bold move. Not only are they in the heart of Puerto Vallarta's elite tour zone, but they're kidnapping the king's sons, the men who ostensibly sit atop the throne, or at the very least, next to the throne of the most powerful criminal organization in in Mexico. These men are supposed to be the next generation of Sinaloa. Some accounts say they were partying too hard, not being careful, caught lacking, as the kids would say, it's a bad look for them and for Sinaloa. The men are held for a week. They're eventually returned unharmed and alive. Rumors say their release is negotiated by none other than Omayo. There's no exact details provided for how the negotiations went down or what's given, but some sources say that Almayo was able to kidnap one of El Mencho's family members and basically tells them, if you don't release them, we're gonna kill this guy. Another rumor says Almayo simply pays out a heavy ransom. Whatever the reason, consider the message sent. There's a new dominant force in Mexico and they're not here to play around. Now what's really interesting is who is allegedly the force that behind that kidnapping and that is a narco by the name of Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez, El Mencho's stepson. A man with a pedigree like none other in Mexico's cartel world. And a decade later, the reported new head of the Jalisco New Generation cartel. As the newspaper El Pais reports quote, the history of Mexican drug trafficking is written in the story of Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez. His father was a pioneer in drug smuggling, trading, avocado farming in Michoacan for cocaine shipments. His mother and uncle transformed a family name into a criminal enterprise. And his stepfather was the world's most wanted drug lord, founder of an international empire. This is the Underworld Podcast. Welcome back to the Underworld Podcast, the only audio visual program that dares to ask the question, exactly how many hour long podcast episodes can one do on different players in Mexico's cartel underworld? And the answer, an infinite amount, as we're going to find out today. We are a show about international organized crime created and hosted by two journalists who have done this sort of reporting all over the world. What he still does. His name is Sean Williams. He's. I don't even know if he's in Paraguay or Uruguay or whatever. My name is Danny Gold. I'm joined by Sean. He has the record right now for being thrown out of nightlife establishments despite never actually doing anything wrong. Sean Williams. How's it going over there, bud?

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, I am in Potosi, Bolivia, where I'm going to be doing something for the show, actually. And I just stepped off a night bus, which I don't know. Do you. Do you need me to tell you how good or bad a Bolivian night bus is?

[Danny Gold]

I mean, I have some imaginations. I've taken night buses in Southeast Asia and really thought I was going to die a lot. And so it took a lot of like bootleg over the counter Xanax. I imagine in Bolivia it's the same thing.

[Sean Williams]

It's the same thing, but it's at like 6,000ft. So you just feel sick all the time and everyone complains. It's great, actually. I love it.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, you should be chewing the. Don't they chew the coca leaf there to kind of get through that situation?

[Sean Williams]

I've been drinking a bit of coca tea. It's pretty nice. It's pretty nice. Doesn't do the job though. I've got a permanent nosebleed and I feel like I can't breathe. It's a great trip.

[Danny Gold]

I don't, I don't know if that's. But do you feel maybe a little mos. A bit mas Caliente having been in Latin America for so long now?

[Sean Williams]

No, no, I've stayed tan Caliente Chiantis, which is not, it's not very much. I'm, you know, I'm not very well dressed, but I'm, I'm still awkward and just a bit sweatier.

[Danny Gold]

It's just your English side, dude.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah.

[Danny Gold]

As always, you can support us and get ad free listening and bonus [e-mail] the Underworld podcast or sign up on Spotify, Apple, even YouTube. Whole library of bonus episodes too. Underworldpod.com for merch. Some good T shirts for you all out there getting ready for the summer. And you can email us anything, tips, compliments, questions for life advice attheworld podcastmail.com only. Compliments only. Do not email us insults. We will respond with our own insults. And we're, we're not nice inclined. Yeah, we've been doing this for a living. We get, we're like, like, it's like when the heckler is like heckle a comedian on stage. Like we, we deal with this, you know, like, we'll fire back. Now, as you listen to this episode, I want you to reflect on how often this podcast does actually include lots of finance business type information. So maybe if like other finance business podcasts are selling for hundreds of millions of dollars or charging millions of dollars for ad buys, we are basically we're that. Except sometimes like stuff gets blown up and people get murdered and there are bricks of, of illicit substances moving all over the place. But basically, at its heart, this podcast is about finance, money, business, and our worth should reflect that. Now let's catch up with the incredibly financially successful, though now dead El Mencho and his international market dominant corporation, the cjng, Jalisco New Generation and the trillion dollar market of Mexico's cartel world. It really feels like the story has kind of fallen by the wayside as other drug war battles in Latin America have exploded in places like Ecuador. And Sebastian Marcet getting, you know, bagged out in Bolivia. Geopolitical conflict in the Middle east and Cuba has taken center stage, but there is still a lot going on. It's crazy though. Our episode on his Death had nearly 600,000 plays on Spotify, which is pretty big even for us.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, and he had done way more if you hadn't cut out that bit about Mencho's links to Epstein and like Opus dei.

[Danny Gold]

Is that Opus dei? I don't know if that relevance is going to be. I mean, the Da Vinci Code came out a long time ago. I don't know if your current, like, your cultural references are basically 15 years ago. I feel like that reference to it.

[Sean Williams]

Yes. Every single reference I have. I like the strokes. And I read books about Opus dei.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, we. We all know what happened. El Mencho, real name Nemesio Ruben Ozeguera Cervantes. The. How. How'd that pronunciation go?

[Sean Williams]

That was good. That was good.

[Danny Gold]

The head of Mexico's current most powerful and ultra violent cartel was killed in late February in a daring raid with the help of US Intelligence. His death triggered an attack on the state by his cartel soldiers that saw dozens of Mexican security forces killed. Terrorist zones shut down, blockades, things being set on fire, chaos at the airports, violence and massive insecurity nearly across all of Mexico. And all of this in places where the World cup will be hosted in a few months.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, and if you didn't listen to that show, do it now. Or maybe after this one. It includes a great interview with the even greater Owen Grillo about the whole thing. Owen being on the ground covering what he calls the Menchaso, which is the rage following the Kingpin's death. And we'll be doing some more fun stuff with Owen in what. I mean, as we're recording this, like a week. So.

[Danny Gold]

A week, which is space. Yeah. And. And definitely subscribe to Crash Out Media, who was one of the sources for this episode. You know, he's doing it independently and he's really. This is not a guy who just started doing this six months ago. He's been out there, I don't know, 30 years, 20 years.

[Sean Williams]

Crazy.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah. Yeah. But just like that, it was mostly over. Right. In a matter of days, things settled down and the question on everyone's mind was, what? What's the point of this Sean Williams life? I mean, what are we all doing here? Like, sitting in a studio reading a script into a microphone about some Mexican drug lord? Is this truly what God has intended for us?

[Sean Williams]

I mean, you think I believe in God when I sit down to talk with you about organized crime in a small hotel room?

[Danny Gold]

The other. You know, I'm a man of faith, John Williams. The other question, though, was, what happens to Mexico's cartel world now? Especially cjng, which, as we know, is the most powerful cartel in Mexico. And big, big fans of pumping meth and fent across the northern border. Mencho, of course, in the weeks after his death, had the typical drug lord funeral. He was buried in a literal golden coffin. I think there was like convoys and all his sicarios came out to pay their respect. Now, when we've seen big takedowns in the past of bosses, either captures or killings, it's usually eventually led to splintering and infighting, civil wars, and various factions forming and turning on each other, or even just other cartels smelling blood in the water and making their move. Sometimes, though, there is a relatively seamless transition. At first that seems to happen. I feel like when they're, they're kind of family affairs and the cartel Nepo babies are either somewhat respected or have consolidated power. Obviously another big story. The last, I don't know, decade, five years or so, has been El Chapo being replaced by his sons, Los Chapitos, and El Mayo's sons doing the same for his wing of the Sinaloa cartel, Los Maitos. Los Maitos, right. I believe that's what it is. At least those that weren't locked up and extradited. Of course, those two groups aren't exactly the perfect example because they turned on each other and are fighting a bloody, bloody war, I guess, though that's an extreme example because it involves some pretty major betrayal. Mencho himself does have a son that was his right hand man for a while, nicknamed, what else? El Manchito, which kind of sounds like a cute kid, you know, Definitely not. But Manchito, you know, I think sounds cute, no? Am I wrong on this? Sean.

[Sean Williams]

Sean Williams. Yeah, it's pretty cute. Yeah.

[Danny Gold]

Now, he's been the number two behind Mencho for a while, being groomed to lead that whole thing. He was arrested a few times, I think in 2014, 2015. Young too, at the time, I think 24, 25, but very involved in the cartel business. He showed a natural aptitude for it and was a major player since he was a teenager. Also half brother of our man from the Cold Open.

[Sean Williams]

Also, I get Menchito, but would you call the grandson, like the Nepo baby of the Nepo baby? Do you call him like Menchintito or something like that? I might, actually. I'm going to run this past my Spanish tutor. There's got to be an answer to this. Maybe.

[Danny Gold]

I mean, that's, that's another cute nickname, you know, kind of portrays. Unfortunately for Mencho's legacy and for El Manchito, he's been locked up in the US since February of 2020, where he was convicted in September of 2024 of the usual cartel stuff and then sentenced in 2025. He's currently serving Life Plus 30 at ADX Florence. Not a nice place to be. So his ability to take over the leadership is non existent. Interestingly, he's American, born in San Francisco. So where does that leave cjng? According to a monster Wall Street Journal report from March, in the hands of 41 year old Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez, who is none other than Mencho's American stepson. And much like the stepson videos that Sean likes to watch, things are going to get a bit messy. Does that. Did that. Did that work? I feel like I had to shoehorn it in there. I was racking my brain for a while trying to think of what I could add in though, you know, like things are about to get dirty. A bit problematic. Probably spent more time on that than anything else this episode.

[Sean Williams]

No, it shows. I'll give you a 5 out of 10, maybe running up to 6 out of 10 because I actually laughed when I read that. And then. Yeah, I knew how long you would have spent staring at your laptop trying to come up with it, which. Which is the true pleasure of these shows.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, you've gotten better at it, you know, really, you're working. But I think that is like 8.5 out of 10. Come on, 6 out of 10.

[Sean Williams]

I'll meet you in the middle.

[Danny Gold]

7. 7 out of 10. 7 out of 10. Now Gonzalez isn't. I'm still smiling. I just. I loved it. You know, Gonzalez isn't just your run of the mill Nepo baby replacement, though. For one, many seem to think he was the lieutenant or top level guy with. With the most amount of internal respect in CJ and G. We'll get into why that is a little further down the line. But first we need to get really into and understand how he is straight up cartel royalty, not just as Mencho stepson. And for that we have to go back, back to a simpler time and to a wild, wild family clan turned cartel known as Los Quinies. Queenies. Queenies. I should have probably looked up how to pronounce that and didn't before the show started. Back in the day, I would stop recording and go look it up right now. But I'm just going to. I just. I have. I'm clumsy.

[Sean Williams]

Queenie's is good.

[Danny Gold]

Queenie.

[Sean Williams]

Good with Queenie. Yeah.

[Danny Gold]

And that's a type of squirrel that has a lot of kids. Because there were reportedly 18 siblings in the family. Though some reports have it as 12. And that is the family that Gonzalez is born into before his mom later marries Mencho. Now his mom named Rosalinda Gonzalez of Valencia is, is herself a high level cartel official known as La Hefa. Serious woman, serious nickname. His uncle on his mother's side is also a cartel boss. And his father, though some reports would have it as his great uncle, is another different cartel boss. Before I get going on this, the sources for this are the usual cartel stuff, Info Bay, local Mexican publications, Crash Out Media, Owens thing that I mentioned before.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, interestingly it's called by the way, it's called Info Buy, which I didn't realize for ages, but I assumed it was a pretty niche outlet doing stuff crime and other such matters in Mexico. But then I came to Argentina and they're like all over the place, like actual billboards all over Buenos Aires. They got a radio station, a huge staff across Latin America. It's a very good signs for Underworld fm.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, I actually had no, I assumed they were just like a niche drug world crime, Latin American crime publication. I always kind of laughed at the name because it sounds like a silly name, you know, Info Bay probably chose it before that was like a slang term, but had no idea. So you're, you're, you're teaching me new things every day. Sean Williams.

[Sean Williams]

There you go.

[Danny Gold]

The Valencia clan emerges in Michoacan in the 70s and 80s. And at first they're avocado growers, but they soon get involved in marijuana growing and trafficking before later turning their attention to coke and synthetic drugs of which they're apparently one of the first groups. This is later on to really dive into it. The synthetic drugs that is. Which makes sense because cjng, CJ NG is eventually known for the same thing, right? Meth and fent. Some of them leave early in that period to head to the US like La Jeffrey Rosalinda, where they continue the family's profession of drug trafficking. The siblings soon form the Millennial Cartel. And this is where it gets confusing because the guy said to be the main leader and by some accounts the founder of the Millennial Cartel is Armando Valencia, also known as Maradona, which is a top notch alias for a drug lord in the 80s and 90s. As I mentioned, various sources have Armando as El Jefa's uncle, while others have him as her one time husband and father of Mencho's stepson, the now boss. Which is confusing. But rural Mexico is not exactly known for their paperwork skills in the 80s, so who really knows? And as an article in El Pas writes, quote, the documents from the US justice system state that in Michoacan, four out of every five or six people have the last name Valencia, and they also marry among themselves. This, the documents say, generates confusion. Yes. Such as the fact that for more than a decade in the United States, people thought Armando Valencia Cornelio and his cousin Luis Valencia Valencia were the same person instead of the two leaders of the Millennial Cartel. Or that Armando managed to avoid his first arrest warrant because the judge didn't know his second surname. And there were dozens of Armando Armando Valencias.

[Sean Williams]

Okay, that's genuinely funny. It's like you could just get away with any crime if you call every single son in your village Armando Valencia. That's really good.

[Danny Gold]

I mean, fingerprinting, I think, probably takes a lot of that out, but it's, yeah, very confusing. I'm going to go with husband and father of the new boss because it just seems like more sources say that, and it makes my life easier just to pick one and stick with it. Husband, uncle is just too confusing. Though it does seem like it would be quite familiar to some of the people who leave us angry comments. You see what I did there, Sean? Saying their parents are related. You know, I feel like I'm slowly morphing into. Into poly walnuts here.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah. How are those sideburns looking these days? Maybe getting a bit gray.

[Danny Gold]

They're getting a little bit gray. I don't know if I have the. The wings yet, though. But see what I said there, Tone? You see what I said there, Sean? Armando ends up working with some of the all times in Mexico's cartel world. First, Miguel Angel Felix Gallardo, the boss of bosses. And then the Lord of the Skies, Amado Carrillo Fuentes, the guys who revolutionized how cartels operated in Mexico. We've done episodes on. I mean, all of them probably mentioned them in a dozen or so at this point. You can do the search thing and find them. Or if you've seen narcos, you know how big they were. They really were the guys at the top of the top. He's able to take the Millennial Cartel and expand like crazy into a bunch of other Mexican states besides Michoacan. And they also stick to their roots and. And launder a lot of the proceeds through avocado farms and cattle. I think they also ship a lot of the drugs in avocados. In one legendary shipment In April of 1999, he takes 8,670 kilos of coke from a tuna boat owned by a Colombian transfers it into Mexico and then sneaks it into Texas. He's later indicted in the US that same year for trafficking coke, heroin and weed to various states. And he's arrested by the army in 2003. Okay, so that's. That's dad, right? The Millennial Cartel continues onward with his relatives at the helm and even aligns with the boys from Sinaloa to eventually take on Los Zetas. Now, this is a very confusing time in the cartel wars. It's a confusing period where all these groups and factions are aligning and fighting, then breaking apart. Maybe even more so than at, like, any other time. Quote. According to the dea, the Jalisco New Generation Cartel is an offshoot of the Sinaloa cartel. For the U.S. treasury Department is an offshoot of the Millennial Cartel. Both visions are correct, wrote security expert Carlos Flores in the 2016 Atlas of Security in Defense of Mexico. Now, this gets a little more confusing, so stick with me. Los Cuinis is a cartel that emerges as a faction of the Millennial Cartel, and it's led by the brother of Rosalinda El Palon, or, you know, the stepson's mom, the new boss's mom, whose nickname is El Queenie. His name is Abigail. Rosalinda herself is also a high ranking member. Al Queenie goes to the US in the 1980s and works with El Mencho in a drug ring in California. I haven't done a ton on Mencho here, but we've covered it before in full episode, so briefly. Mencho famously worked in the avocado fields of the Valencias as a youth, where he befriended them and joined the Millennial Cartel. He was guarding their marijuana fields as a teenager in the 80s before allegedly being sent to work in a drug ring with Abigail, though the dates are iffy on that. And Mencho was arrested for selling heroin, whereas Abigail goes down for selling meth.

[Sean Williams]

So Abigail basically heads out as a freelancer in association with the Millennial Cartel as opposed to being directly part of them. Or is he like.

[Danny Gold]

No, no, no. He's, he's, he's, he's part of them. He's definitely. He's like high ranking part of them. And just El Queeny kind of is like, it's weird. It could be a faction of them, it could be something they break into. You know how these things are like super florid and super. What's the word I'm looking for? Not florid.

[Sean Williams]

Super fluid. Fluid.

[Danny Gold]

That's the word I'm looking for.

[Sean Williams]

Florid, fluid.

[Danny Gold]

Something fluid in the in the cartel world. Right. So you have the Millennial Cartel. Out of the Millennial Cartel emerges Los Queenies and cjng, who are also aligned and maybe part of each other. But Los Queenies is like this money laundering operation or wing that also was like potentially a faction of of the Millennial Cartel. Is that more confusing or is that less confusing? The way I just said it?

[Sean Williams]

The same confusing.

[Danny Gold]

Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail] for years, gone south has been a podcast about crime in the American South. But for our new season, we're widening the lens through deeply reported, narrative driven stories. We're digging into the myths, scandals and power structures that still shape the south and in a lot of ways, the country itself. Follow and listen to gone South Season 5 An Odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows. Every now and then, someone would die. Risk. True Stories. No holding back. He comes up behind me and whispers hard in my ear. Nobody knows where you are and nobody can hear you scream. Some of these stories will make you laugh till you're crying and then I realize I'm unconscious. Some will stick with you for life. They catch my mom poisoning my sister. My brother, he died at the hands of my mother. I said, mike, don't make me shoot your place. But he did. People say Risk makes them feel less alone and more alive.

[Sean Williams]

During my time in prison, I discovered

[Danny Gold]

a podcast called Risk. That podcast saved my life so many times. Live your authentic truth. Because you never know who may come to your funeral and turn that out. Risk the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. Wherever you get your podcasts, they both emerge out of the Millennial Cartel. And there's debate on whether Los Cuinis was actually a faction inside the Millennial Cartel when it existed, or whether it just emerged outside of it. But the leadership for both were like, intertwined. Okay. Eventually, of course, after arrest and sometimes served in prison, they both end up. This is Abigail and Mencho in Mexico putting in more work for the Millennial Cartel. When Mencho first returns to Mexico, he marries Rosalinda El Jefa and they have a son together, El Menchito. She, of course, already has our friend from the cold open, who I'm just going to call El Palon because it's easier I know, I know. Like, this is very confusing. The time is also. The timing is also way off for a lot of this stuff, but we are trying to make sense of it as poorly as we're doing. Whatever the case, her marrying Mencho is said to be like some medieval wedding between kingdoms, matching up the financial wing of the cartel Los Cuinis with the Sicario paramilitary wing of El Mencho. Personally, Sean, I think they married for love. But me, I am a hopeless romantic, as you very well know.

[Sean Williams]

Oh, that. That comes across in every single episode you do.

[Danny Gold]

Reads Mexican MEDIA quote. In reality, El Mencho reached the cartel's leadership through a strategy of diplomacy via marriage. Public security analyst David Saucedo told CNN and Espanol he was indeed the chief of hitmen for Nacho Coronel, but he lacked the lineage that Rosalinda, his wife, possessed. Societo added, you know, I thought cartel land was a meritocracy at some points, but I guess family connections still really matter when it comes down to it.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah.

[Danny Gold]

Now, in 2003, the Zetas are just causing havoc in Michoacan and against the Millennial Cartel. According to a Mexican publication, they actually chased the entire Valencia clan out of Michoacan around 2004. And then the siblings resettle in Jalisco. Remember, CJNG eventually emerges out of the Millennial Cartel and is known first as the Zetas Killers. So after that movement to Alisco, the Millennial Cartel forms a new sicario unit set up to defend them, led by a young man they had grown up with, El Mencho, who prior to that, had actually been a bodyguard for Armando Maradona, El Pelon's father, before he was arrested. Are you following me?

[Sean Williams]

Yeah. Yeah, I got you there. That was good.

[Danny Gold]

The 2000 see a bunch of other Valencias arrested. And in 2009, the then head of the Millennial Cartel, a Valencia clan member known as El Lobo, is arrested. This sets in motion the breakup of the cartel. Mencho, by that point, is big into producing meth. He runs, like, five massive labs, and they're soon to become his staple. Actually, there's another cartel from the 90s that not many people know about that really started the big meth production, and that's the Colima Cartel, which I eventually want to do an episode on, that sort of encompasses meth in Mexico as well.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah. So let's get into that a tiny bit more, because I don't. I don't know whether that, like, is that kind of meth production in Mexico related to the meth production in the Golden Triangle. Because that's exactly the same time that meth was becoming a big deal there as well, right? Or is it evolving completely on its own?

[Danny Gold]

I think it's evolving completely on its own. I don't think they had any connections. Maybe the precursors from China were more available then in the 90s, but I actually don't know. But I would assume that, you know, they're in competition at that point. And maybe it might just be a thing that meth was just having a moment in the 90s. And I feel like both of us have some memory of that era. I feel like it was becoming like more of a thing in the 90s. You started hearing a lot more about crystal meth back then.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, for sure.

[Danny Gold]

But again, it's kind of like a chicken and egg thing. Did you start hearing more about it because the Mexican cartels were like, we can make a lot of money off this. You know, it's synthetic. Let's pump it into the US So it's really. I mean, it's a. It's a good question that I don't have the answer to.

[Sean Williams]

I mean, definitely in Europe, it was. It was coming from China because there was like a shortage at one point and it was because they cut it out somewhere in like Jinjang, if that's. If that's the right place to think about.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, I know it's something I'll definitely research when I'm. When I'm looking into that. That meth episode, but yeah. So the Millennial Cartel is fracturing into two distinct groups, one of which is headed by El Mencho alongside his brother in law, Abigail Valencia Elquini. They went out versus the other faction and this would eventually become cjng. Now, some sources say Los Cuinis forms officially around the same time as cjng, though they were definitely operating, albeit maybe informally before. By all accounts, it is or was a parallel though allied cartel to CJNG at this time. Like 2010, which again, super weird dynamics, right? Because Mencho is in charge of CJ&G and his wife is a high ranking member of those Queenies. As Insight Crime points out, quote, the precise nature of this relationship has never been fully clear. Some reports described the Queenies as the financial arm of the cjng, while others viewed it as a separate, if still affiliated organization. In 2014, there were even reports that that Alquini is the boss of CJNG and Mencho is his deputy. In 2015, Alquini is designated as a kingpin by the US and he's also arrested. So whether or not he was the boss doesn't really matter as much. Many sources say his sister and Mencho's wife, El Jefa, then takes over as the boss of Los Cuinis and starts handling all the finances and businesses. She's got six other sisters who also work with her, I think allegedly for some of them. But the others have been arrested, many of the brothers, if not all as well. Remember, we're talking 18 siblings here. And those Queenies, they're established traffickers, but their main expertise is money laundering. And Rosalinda, this is where she really shines. Those Queenies take some, you know, major hits in the 2010s, including the arrest of Abigail and some other major arrest of Valencia siblings and the higher ups, eventually they basically get absorbed into CJNG as the finance arm. That's if to say they even were separate in the first place. And when I say finance arm, I mean they run a global financial organization that moves tens of billions and owns dozens, if not hundreds of businesses and probably deals with just as many shell companies and bank accounts. Reports Owen Grillo's crash out media quote. The US treasury has blacklisted dozens of businesses it says are linked to the Queenies, such as hotel resorts, shopping malls, construction companies, housing developments, boutiques, a music promotion company, and a tequila brand. The Queenies are the ones who deal with the finances, so they end up with an incredible amount of wealth. A former Mexican federal agent involved in Queenies arrest in Mexico tells me they have assets everywhere in South America, in Europe and Asia. They control a vast fortune. Two things from that. One, as someone who literally just had to set up one llc, like it is insanely impressive that these people do this without any real education in like the finance sector, university. Like it's. It's incredible that they're able to, to do this and map it out. I mean, they get caught eventually. But to plot all this stuff and run all these business, I mean, I'm sure they have people doing it for them and it's a lot harder.

[Sean Williams]

I mean, I mean, maybe we're just telling on ourselves here.

[Danny Gold]

No, I think it is really challenging. But I think one of the big issues when you have people doing it for you in the real world is that some of them are inclined to steal from you. You probably don't do that as much in the Mexican cartel world. You know, the second thing I would add is that, remember we were talking about the chances of there being violence in Guadalajara during The World Cup. And I think one of the points that I was. I was making was that there are so many businesses in those cities that are run by the cartels that they're profiting off of and they're washing their money through. So doing anything that really threatens those businesses. I mean, that's one of the reasons you have the major resort cities in Mexico that for the most part, avoid serious violence. Now, it's not always the case, as we saw in Puerto Vallarta. Sometimes things do kick off when there's something crazy like El Mencho's death happening. But again, I really just don't think it's gonna happen, that they're gonna cause some sort of vast levels of violence that would really not just piss off the entire international world, but threaten their financial arms. I mean, the point of this really is to make money, and that is how they do it. Washing it through all these businesses. Also in 2015, that's when El Mencho's rightful heir is arrested. His son, El Manchito. And that paves the way for his stepson, nicknamed El Pelon, Baldy, Bimbo, Tricky Tres, which I kind of like, or R3. Tricky Tres, I should say it like that. I shouldn't say with a fake Spanish accent. That's terrible. He's born in Santa ana, California, in 1984, and he's born into the game. One could say Sean Williams. We don't know a lot about his childhood, though. Obviously his parents were narco bosses and he spent some of his youth in the United States. Should we just make something up and see if it becomes one of those things that one outlet says, and then every journalist moving forward just repeats it without fact checking? I think. Let's do that. Okay.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, go.

[Danny Gold]

So he loved to play capture the flag with the neighborhood kids, though apparently other parents shut the game down because he became too violent in his early teens. He was super into the card game the Gathering, and his favorite movie was Disney's Blank Check.

[Sean Williams]

That is something I could genuinely imagine reading in an AP story. But also, isn't it quite interesting how Mencho doesn't seem to care whether his kids are in the drug game or not? The majority of big time gangsters, they don't want their family anywhere near the game. They pay for them to go through college and do law school. But I guess by all accounts, Mencho seems to be a crazed, bloodthirsty psychopath. So I guess he wasn't monitoring his kids YouTube consumption for casual references to violence or anything like that.

[Danny Gold]

So that. Actually, I don't think that's necessarily true. Right. Because you had, you know, Mencho's kid, I mean, El Mayo's kids, most of them. It seems like a relatively common thing. I think it's also a big thing in the Italian MAFIA in the U.S. definitely in Italy, but in the U.S. i think, you know, there are some differences. Right. Some of the kids get into it, some of the kids don't. But there was a. I forget who said it. Maybe it was in a book. It was. And he was talking about, like, the difference in the Italian Jewish mafias in the 20s and 30s and 40s was that the Jewish mafias want. Did not want their kids to go into it with the Italians. It was kind of like a, you know, like a hereditary thing. But that wasn't always the case, obviously.

[Sean Williams]

I think maybe I'm remembered in this from one of your. Yeah, the Monkeysman one or something.

[Danny Gold]

One of the Tony Accardo's grandsons, right? NFL player Tony Accardo, the boss of, like, the greatest boss in Chicago history. His grandson was in the NFL.

[Sean Williams]

Damn.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, we talked about that. I don't remember exactly the name, but yeah. So I think, you know, that's also like a staple of, like, Mafia movies, right? Like, do I want my kids to be in this? Do I want them to do something different? Or organized crime movies in general. Right. Do we want the kids to be involved? Do we not want them to be involved? I feel like it's a common. I mean, the Godfather, right? It's like a common plot line for a lot of stuff like that. But, yeah, in the cartel world, it does seem like, I mean, a lot of them have a lot of kids. But it does seem like, I would just assume more often than not, the kids do. Do get involved. So he rises fast in the ranks of the cartel, just like his half brother. In 2016, he's allegedly involved in the kidnapping of the Chapitos, as we covered in the Cold Open. He's also linked to an attack against the former Jalisco prosecutor perpetrated in 2018. And he's allegedly responsible for killing or leading hitman against a host of other Mexican officials. So he's not shying away from the stuff that would attract pretty crazy international and state attention. Something else that happens in 2018 is that his mom, Rosalinda, is arrested for the first time in Jalisco for money laundering. A federal judge charges her for her connection to 73 companies the state says are used to launder 1.1 billion pesos. Or 53 million between 2015 and 2016. Alas, she's freed after being held for three months for lack of evidence.

[Sean Williams]

How can you connect her to 73 companies but say there's not enough evidence? That doesn't. That doesn't compute.

[Danny Gold]

I mean, someone pays you to say there's not enough evidence or threatens you. Something like that. Or maybe they just don't have.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, that's probably it.

[Danny Gold]

I assume their paperwork skills aren't. Aren't. Aren't like the Feds, you know? She's later arrested in Guadalajara in November of 2021 and accused by Mexican authorities of being a financial operator for the Jalisco cartel. By then, she's considered the chief financial operator, the legit CFO of the cjng, and one of the highest ranking members as of right now, at this moment in 2026, I believe she's free. Actually, I think. What was it? Deborah. Deborah Bonello, who we had on the show, who did a book on the. Female. Yeah, narco female female narco bosses. She, I think, wrote something or said something about that. She's a good source for this kind of stuff, so I want to make sure that we give her proper credit. Now, Rosalinda's son, around the time she's first arrested in 2018, we're talking about our boy El Palon, not. Not the full mentor's full son. Forms up an elite tactical group of sicarios that become known as Delta Group or elite Group. I've seen both mentioned, and I can't tell if they're the same, but the takeaway is the same. He is the leader of a group of sicarios that function more like a paramilitary group or military commandos. And this is part of the growing trend of the militarization of the cartels. Of course, that's how it's framed, especially with cjng, which, I don't know, strikes me as not that accurate after Los Edas came about like a decade or two earlier. Right? Guys with real military special forces training, you know? Anyway, he leaves this unit of the CJNG that are essentially their commandos who, you know, they go in like the tip of the spear to fight other cartels over routes and territories. Definitely not some run of the mill gang bangers. Right. They reportedly received training from Colombian military officials turned mercenaries. An elite group is no joke. Right. They go to war in different states, they take on Sinaloa, other serious units like Los Viagras, another smaller cartel, and La Familia Michoacan. So El Palon is a high ranking operator for years, but differing from a lot of other cartel princelings. He keeps low profile, he's not showy or flashy, and at this point, he's considered the third most powerful player in cjng, after Mencho and Manchito. He gains enough of a reputation as a fearsome guy that eventually there are dozens of narco ballads about him. The Narco Carritos writes a Mexican publication. Quote, these songs describe his loyalty to El Mencho, his role as an operational leader, and his alleged rise to power within the organization. One of the corridos, performed by Netton Vega, includes verses such as routes, shipments, trucks, and planes. We are in charge of the cartel. It keeps growing. Gentlemen, it's a pleasure to hold the position of boss. I always support my father. I will never let him down.

[Sean Williams]

Doesn't. Doesn't really translate, does it? That one?

[Danny Gold]

No, no, no. Also, funny line from the Wall Street Journal article. Quote, A recent report by the Mexican Attorney General's office describes Valencia Gonzalez as extremely violent, which. Really? You think so? The cartel boss commando guy is extremely violent. I. You know, I feel like that goes. Yeah. On October 8, 2020, he's indicted in the U.S. district Court in Washington, D.C. on charges of conspiracy to distribute controlled substances, firearm offenses, and criminal forfeiture. And they soon throw up a 5 million bounty on him, where apparently the investigation into him was codenamed Pinky and the Brain, which is a great show that probably holds up. I haven't seen it in a minute. Interestingly, you know who else had a $5 million bounty on his head? Sean Williams.

[Sean Williams]

Uh. Oh, no.

[Danny Gold]

Daniel. Daniel Kinahan.

[Sean Williams]

Oh, okay, okay. I thought it was gonna be another joke about me, some Berlin club.

[Danny Gold]

No, no. Daniel Kinahan, who, as we all know, is just arrested and is, I believe, extra or about to be extradited or was already extradited. We, of course, did an episode on him a while ago. One of our first episodes was the Kinahan versus Hutch family. You did an episode on Kinahan, I think, about December, and then we touched on January.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Gold]

We touched on him in the Stash US episode where I offered a prediction that his time was coming to an end. I believe that episode aired March 24. So it's a shame that you cannot bet on these things on Kalsheet because I actually would have won a bet for once about, you know, him, you

[Sean Williams]

know, congratulations, his impression. Let me be the first to say, well done.

[Danny Gold]

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so pinky in the brain. $5 million bounty on his head. A few months before that, he releases a gnarly press video on Mencho's birthday. It's 100 guys dressed in military tactical gear, holding assault rifles, chanting, quote, pure Mencho's people. Pure the Lord of the Roosters people. Lord of the Roosters being Mencho's nickname because he likes cockfighting. And the next ads, we're giving it our all here. Long live R3. Pure elite group. Gentleman Lord of the Roosters. Of course, his nickname, R3, being a nickname for. For the stepson El Palon. I mean, I guess he wasn't keeping too low a profile. Maybe I was wrong in. In saying that flashiness, because that sounds pretty. Pretty showy. You know, the video also shows.

[Sean Williams]

Well, that was. That was his guys, though, right? That was his guys. So I think he was always on the run and, like, running around these various strongholds, but his guys were out there, like the pure four letters or whatever they were doing.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, yeah. Shows a convoy. The video of 22 armored vehicles, some with turrets, those narco tanks that aren't really tanks. So defense guys. I'm not calling them tanks. I just want to be very clear about that. These are not tanks. They don't have treads. They're not. They don't have.

[Sean Williams]

That's not the community you want to piss off.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, yeah. They're not APCs, they're not tanks. They're what's known as narco tanks. It's a colloquial term for the UP armored vehicles that the cartels make. Let me be very clear on that. There's also grenade launchers in the video, Barrett rifles. Quote, it's the only identified armed group of this nature, acknowledged the then Secretary of National Defense. And it's led by Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez. Also, in 2020, his alleged dad, founder of the Millennial Cartel, Armando Maradona, goes free after being released from the Federal center in Lexington, Kentucky, 15 years early because of cancer and good behavior. After being in prison for 17 years, I think most of those in Mexico. He had never agreed to be a cooperating witness and apparently said he would be returning to his home in Atherton, California, which is the richest town in America. It's a suburb of San Jose, so lots of tech money. I didn't know that.

[Sean Williams]

That's kind of weird. They named it after an England opening batsman with a 37 test average. But, you know, I guess these tech guys are a different breed.

[Danny Gold]

Solid cricket reference. I'm sure the 12 people that get that are going to love it.

[Sean Williams]

It's been a while.

[Danny Gold]

They'll leave a comment about it too. Cricket fans love to give us nice, nice, nice compliments, especially when you mention things or to attack you when England. Yeah, yeah, they're big.

[Sean Williams]

Well, yes, very often.

[Danny Gold]

Love it. Die hard. So yeah, he is doing his cartel boss thing, leading the fight. And then In February of 2024, there were reports that he's captured in Ciudad Guzman, leading to the usual cartel flare ups. But that's apparently refuted shortly after and said to be just a run of the mill cartel blockade, which I don't know man, like maybe he was and they changed the story to sort of COVID up the fact that he just let him go because they were threatened. But interesting to have that reported and then have it refuted Interestingly again in 2025, in August, when Mexico extradites dozens of top cartel bosses to the U.S. remember there were a few of those like moments back then that were super surprising. You had like 30 guys getting sent over by Schonbaum to the U.S. one of those extradited is El Queeny himself, Abigail Mencho's brother in law and El Pelon's uncle. I think I mentioned earlier. He was arrested in 2015 but had managed to dodge extradition for a decade. Now Owen Grillo in Crashout details how the head of the DEA was actually waiting for Alcuni in particular and met him as he arrived in the U.S. that's how big of a deal he was. But now here we are, February 2026, Amencho has just been killed in a raid and the most powerful cartel in Mexico is leaderless. When he dies and things are up for grabs, it's still unsure who the heir is going to be. Keep in mind, we also aren't figuring out this stuff firsthand, right? Like we don't know really what's happening in the succession battle. It's not General Electric handing over the CEO title to someone new. There's no press releases for the most part. When the thinning starts, it's not just your hair that takes a hit, right? It can change how you feel day in, day out. It affects your self esteem. That's where HIMS comes in. They make it simple to take control of hair regrowth with personalized care that fits your life. HIMS offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that actually work, right? Chews, oral medications, serums and sprays. And these are real doctor trusted ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil. That can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. Hims brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatment plans and you can find the right treatment for you. They got 247 provider support once a day treatment options that fit your daily routine. Think of it as your digital treatments front door that gets you back to your old self. For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit hims.com Underworld that's hims.com Underworld for your free online visit hims.com Underworld Feature products include compounded drug products which the FBA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. At first, some people think the reins might have even been handed to El Jefa, his wife, El Pelon's mom, Mentos wife, El Palon's mom. Remember, she is no slouch. She's got quite the pedigree as well. Now, I know what you're thinking, Sean. A woman in charge? Not on your watch. Well, it's 2026, pal. Grow up. It's a possibility. There have been other queenpins and like I said, we even had Deborah on the show who wrote the book about the history of women bosses in cartel land.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, Deborah's book, Narcas is really, really good. I think interviewed her back in like 2021 or something like that.

[Danny Gold]

There's also another respected lieutenant said to control a whole lot of Jalisco. His nickname is the Gardener, which seems like a cute, fun nickname until you think about why you would call a cartel leader the Gardener. I don't think it's because he grows tomato plants, though. Could be. A lot of those guys love love gardens, as we all do. And there's another lieutenant mentioned as the potential boss, nicknamed the Toad, who was a major Sakari recruiter. Just wanted to mention him because he's got a fun cartel boss nickname and yet another nickname, El Yogurt, another fun nickname who has built himself a paramilitary group of sicarios who are mostly former Colombian soldiers that know how to make bombs and have counterinsurgency training.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, I heard he's got a great thing going on with El Granola.

[Danny Gold]

You know, people make fun of my jokes now, but we're not a comedy podcast. Guys, A and B, that is old school. That's classic Sean Williams right there. Really just terrible stuff. Interestingly, sort of claim you just got off a knife bus. You know what? I shouldn't be so harsh on you, man. That's decent work.

[Sean Williams]

Dale could do like a kind of like graphic of a. Of like a tumbleweed going across the screen when I do that.

[Danny Gold]

I think years ago I used to have him add in like the. The Fozzie Bear. But whenever, like every once in a while when you made those jokes, interestingly, some of them claimed they were lured to Mexico. These are the Colombian mercenaries under false pretenses and then forced to fight, which, I don't know, man, it seems like you'd have to be pretty naive in this case for that to happen to be like, oh, come over, Colombian soldiers, we need you for something. Oh, no, it's a cartel. The cartel trick. It just seems, I don't know, unrealistic to me. But it could happen. Who knows? What actually happens, according to many of the sources, when it comes to the succession battle, is that all of these lieutenants agree to respect Gonzalez as the new head of CJ&G. And I'm using the term lieutenants very loosely, by the way. I just use it to mean like the executive vice presidents and whatnot. I don't know how else you describe all these guys. So Gonzalez, heavily respected, earns it, gets his hands dirty. He's been effective, low profile, has the pedigree. So he's not. Not like a typical Nepo baby handover. Anyway, lot of pressure to take over cartel when its cult like psychopath founder gets killed. Though another analyst says that maybe not as respected as we think, which is that guy David Saucedo, I think that we mentioned before. He tells the New York Post that Valencia Gonzalez, quote, still lacks influence among other cartel commander commanders to consolidate leadership. He's also just guessing, though, like we say, and we'll see how long CJ&G can hold out or if they can keep things together. It really seems like, though, the last five years, we've seen the two biggest cartels in Mexico fracture. First Sinaloa, now maybe cjng. And then what's really interesting about this and what a big part of the WSJ article focuses on is the legal issues with surveillance targeting everything that happens. Now because he's an American citizen, that's sort of the crux of that big article, writes the journal. Quote, U.S. intelligence agencies may now face legal hurdles in directly targeting collecting personal data on Valencia Gonzalez because of his place of birth. That risks hindering a significant tactical partnership that has developed between Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum and Washington that is making increasing use of information provided by U.S. military, law enforcement and intelligence agencies. Under the rules for surveilling Americans overseas, the the US would usually need to get sign off from the Attorney General and also persuade a secret foreign intelligence surveillance court that Valencia Gonzalez is acting as an agent of foreign power such as an international terrorist group. Although the hurdles are surmountable, the additional procedural requirements could hobble a fast moving operation, current and former U.S. officials said. Which definitely could complicate things. But, you know, as we know, in tandem with Mexico and their request, the CIA was instrumental in the operation to take out El Mencho, but more so with surveillance. They used an unarmed Predator drone to watch a compound where Mexico's Mentos lover was staying. Kept an eye on it, and then, you know, I guess a guy was pretty sure it was Mento. They thought they id'd him. And then only hours later, Mexican special forces launched their raid. But, you know, if we're being honest, like, let's be real, if they want to keep an eye on the dude, do the surveillance stuff, they're just gonna do it.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, I mean, literally today as we're recording this, what? Two CIA guys died in a car crash in Mexico who were allegedly working against the cartels. And Sheinbaums saying, what are they doing there? Yeah, but I mean, like, yeah, if you're pushing for greater surveillance on us, so wouldn't this news actually be kind of a blessing? It's like this is the smoking gun. You need to convince lawmakers that the war on drugs is finally on US soil. Right? Not. Not that it ever wasn't, but you're right, there's no way on earth they're not going to be piling everything they've got at this guy.

[Danny Gold]

Wait, what do you mean? Convince them that you want to saw the fact that he's an American?

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, exactly.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, but that's. That's actually been, you know, we had Barbie, remember, there have been pretty high ranking guys, and Manchito, the stepson, was. I mean, the real son was American too. So it seems like it's this sort of like, anomaly, but it's really not, you know. Wait, did Sheinbaum say she didn't know what those guys were doing there?

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Danny Gold]

That's going to change in here's speculation from me. But she. She knew. Come on. Pure speculation. I want to be clear about that.

[Sean Williams]

That's the kind of speculation that's going to get us popular. So keep going.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, but. But here's the thing.

[Sean Williams]

What else does she know?

[Danny Gold]

I'm announcing that it's pure speculation. If we're some other podcast, we'd be like, oh, I def. My sources say you don't have sources, buddy. I mean, if you're Owen Grillo, you have sources. If you're Luis Chaparro, you have sources. 99% of you do not have sources. Let's be real about that. Your sources are social media. And the other thing that we're talking about here, Trump has expressed an interest in targeted assassinations of cartel bosses. Is he going to go through with it? Who knows? Which? You know, being a US Citizen, again, could complicate that. But the Obama administration famously killed that Al Qaeda cleric in Yemen who was also a US Citizen. So there is precedent. You know, I know this might be controversial, but I feel like once you become an Al Qaeda leader or a cartel boss overseas, even if you are a US Citizen or once were, like, you might have to sacrifice some rights. You know, I know that's controversial, but, like, both these guys openly announced they are the things. They weren't like, we're hiding this. They were like, hey, I'm an Al Qaeda leader. I'm a cartel boss. Like, there's no doubt here.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, this guy's not the roadrunner.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, yeah. There's no, like, are they guilty? It's like, they're like, hey, we are these things. Here's a video announcing that we are these things. Of course, we still have the World cup coming in, like, what, a month and a half in Guadalajara, June 11, which we still have not received an invitation or sponsorship for. Do you have tickets? Are you currently going? Because I'd like to read this passage from the Wall Street Journal article to you. Quote, mexican officials say the Sheinbaum administration is now at a point of no return as it deals with the aftermath of the kingdom's death. Several World cup soccer matches will take place this summer in Guadalajara, the Jalisco state capital, where the cartel enjoys a monopoly. Here's a quote inside the article. We have embarked on this route, and there is no turning back. One Mexican official said, otherwise they can kill us all. Which. Christ Almighty. First of all, calm down. Second of all, what a quote. And like I said, maybe you guys don't want to risk it. Sean and I and Dale will happily take your tickets if you don't want to go and don't feel safe. The cartels are Actually, the second biggest threat to you if you go there. Second biggest threat to your health. The first would be hanging out with Sean Williams after he's had five pints, which I've done, and let me tell you, life threatening in every way possible. There are certain Brooklyn establishments I cannot go back to if I'm with him.

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, there'll be no pints for me. But also I had the chance to see England versus Panama in Jersey, but actually I think the biggest threat, I mean, I would walk straight into cartel land before spending like 10 grand on watching England beat Panama 1 nil. Probably in the rain. Yeah, I don't know. I'll be watching it. I'll be watching the whole thing in some like oldie worldy BA pub with a few dozen insane old men with like flat caps and like beautiful shirts and everything. I really, man, like, if 10, if 10 more people sign up to the top Patreon tier, I'll watch Argentina vs England in a sports bar in La Boca wearing a Falklands T shirt. I will do it. I will do it. And when I'm murdered, my death will be on your hands, which of course is what all of you scumbags would really love, wouldn't you?

[Danny Gold]

Settle down, buddy. I do love when the World cup is on, man. It's just so much fun, you know, I don't watch, I don't watch the Premier League. I don't pay that much attention. But it's, it's so much fun, dude. Yes, you do. It's so much fun. Like, it really is just a grammar

[Sean Williams]

a tier in the World Cup. It's gonna be so good.

[Danny Gold]

Are they really?

[Sean Williams]

Yeah.

[Danny Gold]

That's awesome.

[Sean Williams]

They are if they can get visas.

[Danny Gold]

I love, I love a, like a sleeper story like that, you know, like Morocco, Alaska, around, like. I love a good story like that, man. Who any good, any good sleeper stories that you, you suspect from paying attention to this stuff?

[Sean Williams]

Scotland could do well. There we go. I think I'm just making sure because I feel like I saw them, they're going to be in the World cup, but they're like not a bad team.

[Danny Gold]

Englishman. Hard. You don't even know if Scotland's in the World Cup.

[Sean Williams]

Well, we're good, man. We're like the second or third best team in the world, so we're expecting it, but yeah, Scotland, Scotland in a group with Haiti, Morocco and Brazil. Actually, I'll take everything back that I just said.

[Danny Gold]

They're done.

[Sean Williams]

They're going to bomb.

[Danny Gold]

That's all right. Okay. Literally last week. We'll get back to the actual podcast. Literally just last week, as I was finishing up writing this, the co founder of cjng, who I mostly left out because it's just too many names, L85, who was also from California, like we said, just pled guilty in D.C. to conspiracy to distribute coke. He faces a mandatory minimum of 10 years, which if he somehow gets that, not bad. He was extradited in 2025 in one of those big ways from Mexico as well. So there you have it. El Mencho's heir. Gonna put that up in the title and hope the El Mencho name gets us another half a million. Please. Yeah. So we went off a little. We went off a little. A little off kilter this episode, you know, but that's all right. Yeah.

[Sean Williams]

We don't need to be killed.

[Danny Gold]

We don't need to be on kilter.

[Sean Williams]

On kilter, off kilter.

[Danny Gold]

Patreon.comworldpodcast I swear we'll be putting bonus episodes up again. Underworldpod.com the underworldpodcastmail.com and yeah, you know, hit us up. Advertising sponsors. Sean's running around Latin America doing all sorts of things, so if you want to hang out with him, he's. He's lonely. Are you?

[Sean Williams]

Yeah, I'm extremely lonely in Bolivia, sitting next to a literal pile of cocaine. I can't and want to.

[Danny Gold]

You know, I used to make those

[Sean Williams]

jokes in this episode.

[Danny Gold]

Yeah, I felt bad about your employment prospects afterward. You can't say. Anyway, whatever. It's all good. We love you guys. Thanks for listening. Until next week.

[Sean Williams]

Sa. Sam. Sa.