B (5:24)

It's. It's finally the. The unrequited love I've been seeking my entire life. Hello, everyone.

A (5:30)

I'm looking forward to watching you transition into like an Argentinian man. I don't know what you're going to be. I don't know in my head anywhere, like a bul fighter costume. Even though that's not an Argentinian thing, right? But we look forward to it, dude, seeing how you grow over the next month, over the next year or so.

B (5:44)

And see, I will be growing if I eat the same food. Yeah, that's for sure.

A (5:47)

As always, we have bonus episodes up on patreon.com the Underworld podcast. And you can also sign up on Spotify and itunes ad free as well. You can sign up even if you don't want the bonus episodes, just to support us. You know, you're busy people. Maybe you don't have time, but you still want to support us. Why not throw. Throw some. Throw some cash in there. Email us tips or compliments at the underworld podcastmail.com reach out if you want to advertise with us or send us free stuff. And what else? Underworldpod.com for merch. Buy a T shirt. Treat yourself and your loved ones. Okay, so Melbourne, Australia. Is that. Is that how you pronounce it, John?

B (6:23)

Yeah, Melbourne. Yeah.

A (6:23)

Good. You know, I feel like everyone I've ever met from Melbourne has been ridiculously attractive. Is that. Is that accurate?

B (6:30)

Um, it's up there. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe Buenos Aires has given it a run for its money, but it's pretty good.

A (6:35)

Yeah. You know, I've actually never been there or to Australia, which is why I wanted Sean to do this episode. But he was too busy working on some incredibly obscure who the f knows Southeast Asia episode. Something about like, Cambodian shrimp farmer mafias or something. And it was just. It was too good to pass up. We had a few listeners asking for it, so I jumped on it. And I'm glad I did because it is wild, wild stuff. And big news happening with Kaz Hamad, recently arrested in Iraq, I believe that was in January. And the one thing you have to know about Melbourne for the story and Victoria, the state where Melbourne is, is that the people who run it, they. I think they're morons. I don't think I've ever seen a government that seems so focused on creating an insane black market for organized crime groups to make as much money as simply as possible. It makes Prohibition in the 1920s in America look smart by comparison. Australia, I think, is the strictest country when it comes to tobacco regulation and the most successful in cutting smoker rates. And they've done this in some relatively inconsequential ways when it comes to this story. Right. They have really strict packaging laws, public awareness campaigns, and bans. Wait, Sean, this is a side note, actually. Did I ever tell you I did an anti tobacco ad like. Like that was aired on TV and on, like, YouTube as myself? I think it must have been like, 2018, 2019. We have this thing in America. It's called the Truth campaign. It's like dare, but for cigarettes, you know. You know what dare is? No, no, I don't dare is like the anti drug campaign. Like don't do drugs. Truth is that but for cigarettes. And I basically did like a commercial spouting some tobacco facts. I had to sign a contract saying I wouldn't be photographed or seen smoking for like a year. This was when I was doing a lot more like on camera documentary stuff. But yeah, so that was. That was the thing I had to do. I paid me 15k through like 10 days of work. So that was. That was pretty cool.

B (8:30)

How did that first cigarette feel when the. When the year was up? Was that good?

A (8:34)

Oh, dude, it was the bag. Miss smoking so much. Smoking is the best, dude.

B (8:38)

Can we find this video? Can we find this video online? I need to.

A (8:41)

They might have taken it down, but you can, you can look for it. But yeah, I mean, smoking definitely destroyed my throat and my esophagus, but really, it really was great for a while,

B (8:49)

you know, just smoke kids.

A (8:52)

Drunken cigs, dude. Drunken cigs are like cigs on vacation after you have your first drink outside somewhere. Just the best. Or in a bar if it's the legal there.

B (9:01)

Yeah.

A (9:02)

Anyway, where were we? Oh, yeah, the. The podcast. Right. Anyway, the thing Australia does to curtail smoking rates that backfires immensely is they jack up the prices of cigarettes through taxes, which, yes, all countries or most countries do that, but they do it by an insane amount. In Australia, like each individual cigarette is taxed at 19 cents or so prior to 2010, and then it goes up to 36 cents around like 2012, 2013, and now it's a $40 a cigarette. That's just the taxes. Packs go for like 40 to 55 Australian dollars. So we're talking like 30, 35 US dollars per pack. And I believe they're actually taxed at something like 65% at the moment, which is pretty nuts. Like New York City, I think is like $20 a pack in Manhattan, 16, 18 in Brooklyn. But 30 to 35 is. Is insane. Now, the reason they do this is because not only do they want people to quit smoking, but it generates tax revenue. Like billions of dollars in tax revenue. That is until it doesn't. Until people start buying way more black market cigs and illegal tobacco that is untaxed. Because who wants to pay $45 a pack when they can pay 15?

B (10:10)

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I've ever smoked a legal cigarette in Melbourne. I don't think anyone does. I don't Know anyone who does?

A (10:18)

Yeah. I mean, apparently once we find out how much these guys are making on the black market, you'll see why there's so much money to be made. And it's kind of like there's. I forget what the economic principle is, right? Where it kind of like diminishing returns when you raise the, the tax level where people are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's a, this is like a case study though, and how not to do this. Prior to the big tax hikes, there was a lot of what they call chop chop on the market, which is like unbranded loose leaf tobacco, illegally grown. But then once the prices really start shooting up, you could just smuggle in counterfeit or special specially made cigarettes. You know, loose tobacco, of course, is always much cheaper, but real cigarettes can be cheap enough when they're untaxed in comparison, that is, to what's happening in Australia. So what happens as well, you know, criminal groups can make immense profit on untaxed tobacco. I mean, over a dollar per cigarette basically is insane, right? You're talking like you can make $20 profit per pack if you're in organized crime, which is thinking about how much packs people buy. I mean, that is, that is pretty insane. I keep saying insane, but it is, it's. It's nuts. I just ran out of synonyms. So where do you get the tobacco? Where do you get the cigarettes? Plenty of knockoffs and cheap brands created specifically for smuggling in China and Southeast Asia. Those are illegally made. The others are made legally in the Jebel Ali free zone in the United Arab Emirates, which we get in. We will get into further down the app in the episode. And then you just need some kind of funny paperwork and they're good to go because they're, they're legally made. Right. And then these goods are brought in, smuggled the way most smuggled goods are in shipping containers labeled as something else. One container can carry tens of millions of dollars worth of untaxed cigarettes. Yeah.

B (11:57)

And interestingly, like to tee up a trip I'm going to be on in what, as people hear this, in a couple of weeks or so here in Latin America, I think most of the illegal cigarettes go through Paraguay, which is like, oh man, there's so much weird stuff going on there. And as far as richest man, which is exactly what they've been doing there since the 1950s anyway. Yeah, look out for some Paraguay stuff coming soon. I can hear everybody licking their lips, just waiting with bated breath for the Paraguay content that everyone's crying out for,

A (12:26)

just to reiterate, cigarettes made in Dubai, they're made legally, Right? But they're not supposed to be legally sold in Australia. So the manufacturers. We'll get into this more later. Can just, like, wash their hands of it once they're sold to the people who. Who basically smuggle them into Australia. But probably those two people are one and the same, just shell companies. But again, get into that a little bit more, a little bit more later. So from there, once they smuggle them into Australia, it's just a matter of distributing them, getting them into one of the 1300 or so tobacco shops in Melbourne and the surrounding area, and the shop owners stocking them and selling them, who, of course, aren't going to balk at paying half or one third as much as they normally do. Right. And of course, enforcement is generally super lax, but you also need the shops to be in on it. Right. And they are. But different criminal groups sell to or control different shops. When I say control, I mean the shop owners need to also pay a protection tax to sell the illegal cigarettes, and also they need to buy the tobacco from the gangsters. And that's where the wars come in. Does this, all this make sense?

B (13:28)

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty crazy how widespread this seems to be as well.

A (13:33)

Yeah, reads one Australian newspaper. Quote, authorities say illicit cigarettes are smuggled in from the United Arab Emirates, China and Southeast Asia, with border forces seizing 1.8 billion cigarettes in 2023. But they complain that they can only check 1% of the 3.2 million containers that pass through Melbourne's ports each year. There's always been money to be made in this hustle, right? The untaxed cigarettes hustle, but as the taxes have skyrocketed, so has the money to be made. Honestly, there's a pretty big market for this in the US as well, at least in New York City, where cigarettes, like I said, are like sixteen eighteen dollars a pack. People truck them up from the south or Native American reservations where they're either much cheaper or untaxed, and then bodegas sell them for, I think, like 10, 12 a pack or two, Lucy's for a dollar. It's been a while since I bought cigarettes. Thing is, there's no, like, major violence or real gang wars over it because, A, the margins here aren't that great, and B, there's actual laws in the US for stuff like this and for prosecuting organized crime for the most part, but definitely organized crime involved in that, too. Just nothing like Australia actually going back

B (14:40)

to one of your first show, actually. Was it maybe the first show we ever did on Arkansas Tigers in the. In the former Yugoslavia? Wasn't that wasn't a bunch of his kind of illegal operations bankrolled by like hooky cigarettes coming across the border?

A (14:55)

Is that.

B (14:56)

I think it still happens like in that part of Europe as well today. Like, yeah, a massive amount, big thing.

A (15:01)

Eastern Europe, the Balkans. I think the Androngheta play a lot of, like a lot of a big role in that. Albanian crime groups just like smuggling it on speedboats, basically. But yeah, massive, massive money in untaxed cigarettes. So the first organization that seems to have figured out this play in Melbourne is the Hadara clan or the Hardara crime family. They live in a fortified compound in Melbourne and are no joke. They're of Lebanese descent and have serious connections there and in Dubai, of course, and use it as a point to launder their money and invest it in legitimate businesses. They get their start just doing simple robberies at gas stations, supermarkets, and flipping those cigarettes that they steal. Like I said, in those stores, by 2013, they're actually importing shipping containers full of cigarettes and frozen tobacco. Making good money doing it. But again, the taxes aren't super high then. They dominate the illegal tobacco industry for something like a decade. There's other crime groups involved as well as some biker gangs which are massive in Australia. I think Sean's talked about this before. Bandidos, comancheros, Mongols. I think the finks are one too. But the Hadaras, led by the patriarch Fadi, have the big international connections. In February of 2022, they're linked to a confiscated shipment of $40 million of cigarettes. A year earlier, a member of the Klan is linked to the theft of $7 million worth of smokes. That's another element, like I said, ripping off the big shipments of legal cigarettes or doing heist and then flipping them into stores or two stores. They've also got links to drug trafficking, extortion, rackets, money laundering, and your run of the mill sort of gangster violence. They contract out actually a lot, the biker gangs for the violence, which seems to be what a lot of the other, other organized crime groups do. They also seem to move in and out of them, like some are members or associates, while also being in the other organized crime groups. The whole thing seems very fluid. I don't. I mean, I'm not. Sean, are you more familiar with it,

B (16:52)

not this world so much because I did, I did one of like the early shows on the stuff that was going on in the late 90s and early 2000s. But this is like a whole other world. That entire underworld was stripped out bare and then it seems to be replaced by this. So I don't know a lot about it, to be honest.

A (17:08)

Does Mr. In between take place in Melbourne or is that. I think that might be Sydney. Right.

B (17:12)

Yeah.

A (17:13)

Either way, highly recommend. I mean, I'm actually rewatching it now. Just incredible show. I think it's on hulu in the

B (17:18)

U.S. yeah, man, that's such a cool show. We should do an updated Best Gangster TV Shows bonus, actually, because I think we did one like five years ago, so we should definitely do one soon. Because people look to us to change tastes around the world, do they not?

A (17:32)

Taste makers.

B (17:33)

That's the one they could not change.

A (17:34)

They should pay us to recommend them. But the ones I've seen, like the Sylvester Stallone one is terrible.

B (17:40)

Oh, man.

A (17:41)

Yeah, the one in Tulsa is terrible. And then I tried to watch the one with Tom Hardy and Pierce brought Brosnan, but that also seemed terrible. After one or two episodes, I heard it's better.

B (17:52)

I don't know. I didn't. Yeah, I didn't make it through the first episode of that. It was.

A (17:55)

Yeah, it was. So once you kill off 15 guys in the meeting in the first episode, I don't like this as be more like Gamora. Like, come on. Yeah, help us out. For all intents and purposes, things seem pretty under the radar in the tobacco trade, at least in terms of like massive violence and firebombings and people being attacked through the 2000s into the 2010s, like it's a known thing. And there's extortion, there's protection rackets, but it wasn't completely out of control. Melbourne definitely has a violent underworld, that's for sure, but there's no egregious tobacco focused violence then. That is until Kazm Hamad gets involved. Otherwise known as Kaz. Kaz is born in Basra, Iraq, which is the gateway to the marshlands in the south in 1984. Interestingly, it's become a major crystal meth area in the last decade or so. But Kaz was long gone before that. His family is Shia. They suffer under Saddam, especially after the Shia uprising in 1991, and they end up fleeing the country and living in refugee camps in Syria, in Jordan, in Lebanon, before they move to Australia in 1998 when he's 14. He drops out of school at 15 and by his late teens is apparently estranged from his family, living the street Life and like on the street, his first court appearance is in 2001 when he's 17. He later gets convicted of burglary, armed robbery, assault with a weapon and a host of others. Some sources say his family actually briefly returned back to Iraq in 2003 after Saddam got overthrown, before returning back to Australia shortly after that. Others mentioned that a much beloved brother is killed there in 2009 in a bombing attack. By that time period, the late 2000s, Kaz is implicated in a bunch of assaults and kidnappings for money. And in most of these cases, witnesses refused to testify. By 2010 he's got a file in the police database, 19 pages long. And he's standing trial for one of the assault and kidnapping charges which are soon dropped, allegedly because you guessed it, the victims don't want to talk anymore.

B (19:51)

So is he associated with a bikies gang or like a Lebanese mafia family there at this point or is he just kind of a soul trading nutcase?

A (19:59)

He's just like a small time guy I think at this point, but he has, he has people, I think he's, he's tight with the leader of one of the biker gangs.

B (20:07)

Uh huh.

A (20:07)

But he's not in a biker gang. He's not, that's what I mean. Like it's very, it's very fluid over there.

B (20:12)

You know, they're not patched and then they're all fighting each other all the time. They're kind of moving.

A (20:17)

I mean I think they, I think they are. But it does seem like some of these, you know, there's a lot of Lebanese crime families there. It does seem like some of them kind of move in and out of the biker gangs. I don't, I don't have a great understanding of it, so I could be wrong, but it does seem very fluid in that way. Also at this time he's a heavy crystal meth user and has a few psychotic episodes. According to the courts, in 2011 he's convicted on a different kidnapping charge and gets locked up for two years or so. At that point he's starting to make a little name for himself in Melbourne's gangland, which is enmeshed in these wars between biker gangs and Middle Eastern crime syndicates, which are primarily Lebanese. When Kaz gets out after a sentence, he forms a crew and they do the usual, you know, low level drug trafficking, robberies, protection rackets. He also gets close with some outlaw biker gangs, including the head of the local Mongols chapter. An underworld source tells a local Australian paper, quote, he came up really Fast. Nobody knew who he was. And then all of a sudden, his name was all over the place. You kept hearing Kaz did this. Kaz was responsible for that. He started to be talked about a lot and seen a lot. This is right around the time 2015 that Kaz gets arrested and charged with major heroin trafficking. He's actually sent to the detention center in Christmas island to be deported. But eventually it's ruled that he'll stay. That he has to stay in Melbourne to face the drug trafficking charge.

B (21:33)

Yeah. That place is not for the faint of heart. Did you read that Luke Mogulson piece from back in 2013? That is like an old timer, I think, New York Times mag.

A (21:41)

It's one of the best pieces of journalism I've ever read. It's. I don't even think he. It's from Christmas Island. It's when he goes with a bunch of refugees. I think he pretends to be Georgian.

B (21:53)

Yeah.

A (21:53)

Waits for like months in Europe or weeks. Not in Europe, I'm sorry. He ends up Europe to I think UAE or oma. Somewhere there.

B (22:01)

Yeah.

A (22:02)

I don't remember exactly what. What Gulf country he is. And then he gets on the raft that they were taking to Australia, which is like a multi, multi day trip. And I remember there's a visual in the article that's just like 10 seconds of the waves they hit and the raft basically going like 90 degrees up. And I remember thinking it was the most terrifying thing I've. I've seen in a long time. So I proposed. I wanted to do a trip. I knew this crazy French reporter who I'd met in West Africa who had been a. I think French Foreign Legion or some. Some French special forces unit. And he had done the trip. This is like 2014, 2015, the trip from Libya to. I forget where they go. What was the island that.

B (22:49)

Or like one of those Italian islands. One of those islands.

A (22:51)

And he was like, dude, like, this is when I was working for Vice. He was like, I know the captain of this ship. He's. He called him a sea wolf, which I don't think I'd ever heard someone before a captain ship before. I thought that was cool. He's like, we can do this trip. I can do with you. It's less than 24 hours. And at that point I was like, willing to do anything. So I actually, I had a. I had done some report. This is like late 2014. So I had done the Ebola reporting, which, like got me in really good graces with Shane Smith. And he was like, look, what do you want to do? Like, just tell me what you want to do. And that was one of the, the things that I propose. And he was like, I can't, can't let you do that. I actually said no. But when it made my career, man, like three stories like that, that would have made my career. That did not get to do. But I was ready to do it.

B (23:38)

That is genuinely extremely dangerous.

A (23:41)

Like, I don't think it's, I don't think it's as dangerous as Luke's trip because Luke's trip is like multi days. I think Lampedusa was like, what's that? Yeah, I mean, less than a, less than a day. I mean, you gotta get that sunscreen gone. I would've been in trouble under the sun. But the guy that I trusted, that French guy so much, even though I'd met him like three days and he was just like, he had done it and he was like, this guy's a sea wolf. And that just stuck in my head and I was like, I can do this. Did not get to do it.

B (24:08)

Is that what the Shakira song's about?

A (24:10)

I didn't know that, but yeah, it was, it was a bummer. Probably might have been gone badly. So we'll see. Guys, let's talk about quint. You know this brand, I've talked to you guys about it. I actually, I bought one of their linen shirts. Look at this. Look how nice this is. Before they were even a sponsor. Okay? And, and you know, you guys know I'm a man of taste and luxury. This is what you want to get, right? Quints will help you build a thoughtfully built wardrobe. Coming down to pieces that mix well and last. That's where they kind of shine, right? They've got premium fabrics. Consider design and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change. Warming up again, you guys want to be paying attention to linen. They got linen bottoms and shorts, short sleeve Mongolian Cashmore polos, lightweight cashmere sweaters. They've got stuff that really lasts and it's high quality. They're versatile pieces that make a wardrobe actually work season to season. And they work directly with top factories and cut out the middleman. So you're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality, quality clothing. Those linen shorts have become my go to, right? They don't wrinkle like cheap linen does and they work with everything. Didn't cost a fortune either. Right now go to quince.com/underworld for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q U I n c e.com Underworld for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Underworld okay, where were we? Okay. April, that year, 2015, I think, right. Kaz is with his cousin in a car pulling into a driveway in their home in the western suburbs of Melbourne when a gunman, a hitman, likely opens fire and kills his cousin. It's believed that Kaz is the actual target here. And now we need to meet two other major players in Melbourne's underworld. The first is George Morocci, who is a major crime boss and rival drug trafficker to Kaz, even though he's basically been locked up forever and will continue to be locked up for decades. Interestingly, he also came to Australia as a child refugee from Iraq. He's a Syrian. And the gang he starts later in prison, ncf, or notorious crime family, is predominantly Assyrian. Shout out to the Assyrians. You know, real survivors, they really are.

B (26:34)

Yeah, been rocking out since Sasha Banipal. Great beards too. Great beards. I'm actually kind of upset that you haven't mentioned my awful moustache that I'm going to keep for the next week or.

A (26:45)

It's not coming in. I'm trying to look at it now. It's not coming in that.

B (26:48)

Oh my God.

A (26:49)

To be honest with you.

B (26:50)

What a bunch of effort wasted. All right, never mind.

A (26:52)

I mean, yeah, I mean, I can't really. My facial art is just terrible these days ever since the beard kind of lost its footing. Just awful. So I can't really, you know, compare it to anything good.

B (27:03)

Shout out for advertisers anyway, so they're not okay.

A (27:07)

George Morogi alleged to have been the one behind the hit that killed Kaz's cousin. Then In September of 2016, our friend from the cold open, Sam the Punisher Abdul Rahim, arranges to meet two men in a parking lot of an office work store. One of those men was a close friend and high ranking member of Kaz's crew. This is broad daylight, by the way. The two men are waiting there when Marogi bursts out of a car and opens fire, killing Kaz's man. Morogi is later arrested, convicted and sentenced to decades for that murder, though he continues to move weight and run things from prison. The punisher Abdul Rahim had been A former member of the Mongols, and apparently was formerly a criminal associate of Qazes before setting up his friend, allegedly after this. Both men are basically vendetta enemies of Kaz, which is bad news for them because he is on the way to the top. Abdul Rahim's story is completely insane, by the way. We're going to catch up with him later. In 2019, while Kaz is locked up, he makes a secret deal with the Australian police to hand over a bunch of weapons for a reduced sentence. Apparently this is a pretty regular tactic for gangsters to do this in Australia. Typically not seen as being an informant, since you're only really giving up your own supply to get time reduced. But some of Morogi's associates, though, including his sister, they get a hold of the paperwork and they start spreading rumors around that Kaz has become an informant, throwing dirt on his name.

B (28:26)

Yeah, this I find amazing because, like one of the major themes in the Melbourne gang Wars of the late 90s, early 2000s, which I think I did on the show, like 2021, they had a massive inquiry about all the connections between Victoria cops and organized crime. And here is this guy Marogi, years later, and he's somehow got a hold of like confidential police files. It's pretty insane actually.

A (28:49)

Dude, what he's able. I don't go into it too much in here, but what he's able to do from prison is pretty nuts. Like, he really builds like an empire from prison.

B (28:59)

Yeah.

A (28:59)

So I don't know what's going on, what's going on there with, with the guards, but probably on the take, I would assume. Yeah. Years later, Kaz, as one of their houses, shot up. And then to get back at Morogi, he sends his goons to steal the corpse of Morogi's sister, who had died years earlier because of COVID and desecrated, like grave robbing from a mausoleum. The plan is for them to dig it up and feed it to dogs, videotape that and then send the video around, including directly to Morogi to humiliate him. This is all like the break in to steal. The corpse is caught on cctv, but at last, the elevator in the mausoleum is broken, so they can't move. The. The. The. The grid.

B (29:40)

No, not the grid.

A (29:40)

What am I, what am I talking about here? The pine box. The. The. How come I can't look at the word here? The casket, dude, I am brain dead. So they just, they just crack it open and they steal tens of thousands of dollars of jewelry from her body.

B (29:52)

Wow, man, that's pretty dark stuff. Calm down, guys. Just shoot each other a little too far, Brad.

A (29:59)

Yeah, just shoot each. Like that is a little. I mean, go to his street and like make an Instagram video of you being there and saying he's, he's, you know.

B (30:07)

Yeah, just like for a pussy, you

A (30:09)

don't have to dig up ding of graves is like a, like a bridge too far, man. Like don't settle down. By the early 2000s, when Kazama is really starting to take over, he's putting million dollar bounties on Abdul rahim's head and 2 million on George's head. Sounds excessive, but the guy, you know, he, he holds a grudge and he's got a ton of money now, so. Another interesting facet of the Australian justice system because of the attempts on his life in 2015, the shooting. I mean, the informing thing, which isn't really informing. There's a blanket ban in the media on mentioning Kaz's name for the entire time he's in prison. I don't quite understand it, but apparently that's the way it works in Australia. The police can just ban the media for mentioning your name if they deem your life as danger. Even if you're a high level criminal, not in witsec, which can be an advantage, keep you off the radar and whatnot. But you know, probably for a lot of these guys, they actually want the headlines, they want to be on the radar. But for Kaz, he kind of uses like a Kaiser Sosei thing, right? He's just operating, no one can mention his name. And he's building and building and building. So Kazamad, while in prison, he starts building his network alliances. Biker gangs, international drug traffickers. He wants to emerge from prison more powerful than ever. He's keenly interested in the tobacco market too. He's got lieutenants on the street, cousins, brothers, uncles. A cousin named Ahmed Alhamza, only in his early 20s, is said to be like a really proficient leader, smart, calm, violent even. Even stays off social media. He starts putting together the street crew. They call it Kaz's Boys. And he's running Kaz's drug trafficking network, which includes coke and meth. A big shipment gets busted in 2022. And the cousin, Ahmed Alhamza, he flees Australia before he can be charged. He said to be right now in Dubai or Kuwait. Still though, he's really laying the groundwork.

B (31:57)

I've never heard of gangsters laying low in Kuwait. Is that a thing or is it Just because he's from Basra, which is next to Kuwait. Right. It's like right on the corner there.

A (32:07)

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's the first time I've heard of Kuwait being a. A place.

B (32:11)

Gangster garbage. Yeah. Yeah.

A (32:13)

I don't think the lifestyle there is as good as Dubai.

B (32:17)

Possibly the most boring place on earth, which is. Have you been personal? I. Yeah. Yeah. It's really not cool. There's. I don't think there's anything there, really, that is fun.

A (32:30)

Probably not.

B (32:31)

I mean, you know, if you want to hang around in a. In a kind of like Sheraton all day and all night sipping expensive coffee and then drinking overpriced beer, it's great. It's awesome, actually. If not, I'd go somewhere else.

A (32:45)

Sign me up. So there's a number of attacks on rivals during this time, shootings, whatnot, during this sort of lead up. There's also, unrelated to just the Casamat syndicate, tensions rising in the black market tobacco game as everyone is sniffing out how much money is actually on the tables as the cigarette taxes keep going higher and higher. According to the head of a task force created to shut down the tobacco wars at this point, untaxed cigs in one shop can make 20k a week. Close to a million a year in one shop. And there's 1300 of them. And it's not even including the protection tax, which at that point I think is 1k a month, which soon grows to 2 and then 3k.

B (33:20)

Yes.

A (33:21)

So there's four main groups. Yeah, it's. Dude, it's.

B (33:24)

Can you imagine, like the amount of cigarettes people are getting for in Melbourne with the, like the numbers of afters kicking off with hipsters, like in. In kind of the cool areas? Because I'm imagining quite a lot of ciggies are getting done around that way.

A (33:38)

Money, money to be made. So there's four main groups dominating the tobacco market at that point. There's biker gangs, Middle Eastern crime syndicates, the Hadaras. And they decide they're going to sit down in March of 2023 and have a summit. It's an attempt to kind of form a commission, right, to avoid things getting chaotic, to set things up so everyone gets a taste they can agree on territory, pricing, all that. A true cartel, if you will. They're also wary of Kaz and his crew, who are attempting to gain a foothold. Some sources say Kaz wasn't invited. Some say he was invited and declined. It's unclear. Everything is from, quote, underworld Sources, so you never know what to make of those. Only six men attend, among them the Hadaras, a syndicate led by a guy nicknamed Afghan Ali. And biker club leadership from various gangs, including the Finks and the Mongols. Remember, to these guys at this point, you know, Kaz is still kind of seen as like a small time player in upstart. He's not thought of as like a mastermind. Somebody can do the complex big time moves. They see him as a guy who sends young crews of arm robbers to go after service stations and whatnot. They underestimate his abilities and his ruthlessness. This meaning, though, this is the event that most say is the trigger point for the launch of the tobacco war, because shortly after it, on March 24, 2023, a tobacco store is firebombed. Within a matter of months, dozens more are torched and firebombed as Hamad Khas. Hamad and his crew go to war against everyone and tit for tat attacks become the norm.

B (35:05)

Yeah, and also I think if I'm right, most of this is going on in Brunswick, which is like a central suburb full of hipster bars, also massive Middle Eastern community. This is not like some outer borough somewhere. This is like right in the middle of the city. And I'm guessing is part of this also Shisha tobacco at all, because that's been a big part of Lebanese organized crime in Berlin. But I'm not sure if it's the case here.

A (35:28)

Did not see that. I did not see that discussed. That's interesting though. I didn't realize Shisha had that much of a. I know Shisha bars are like the primary way to launder money. Have your little gang hangout for a lot of places. I didn't see anything about Shisha tobacco as, as the profit margins for that, but I got to imagine far less to smoke than cigarettes.

B (35:47)

Yeah, but I think there's like a big funnel. I think it's all to do with the money laundering as well. Like money going back and forth with Shisha Tobacco. Definitely in Germany with some of the biker gangs as well, which are Kurdish. So yeah.

A (36:00)

So that summer 2023, Kazakhmad is freed from the Australian prison and swiftly deported to Iraq. But it doesn't slow him down. In August, Afghan Ali, a fearsome gangster in his own right and the head of one of the tobacco syndicates who was at the big meeting. He's gunned down, allegedly by one of Kaz's crew. No one is ever charged for the murder and the tobacco shops keep getting lit up. And the way Kaz's crew operates, it's actually similar to the way we talked about the Swedish gangs. Right. And others were like, increasingly younger and wilder soldiers are recruited off social media and paid to do extortions, threaten shop owners, commit arson, throw firebombs. They get sent into the tobacco shops that issue threats. Sometimes they even put the higher up members on the phone, writes an Australian paper. Quote, if a Tobacchanist refuses to handle Hamad stock, sources say an encrypted contract is offered online. This is taken up by a teenager or motorcycle gangs, who then confront store owners with a death threat. And if the owners refuse to comply, the shop is firebombed. In the dead of the night, Australian police, they launch a task force called Lunar to go after the major players and stop the war. But it doesn't really help because within a year and a half, over 100 shops have been firebombed.

B (37:08)

Yeah, you would think they could do something about it, but isn't this like the blueprint for how local business owners end up getting victimized by gangs? Like, if the police don't step in, that is like, first they offer the product for a price and then they're forcing the product onto threats of violence and the threat gets carried out. The more they know they can get away with it. I'd imagine this is how the kind of street gangs that you've seen in El Salvador function as well. Except they don't just firebomb the shop, they just shoot everyone dead.

A (37:32)

Yeah, I mean, those gangs are no more. But yeah, I mean, it's a typical mafia extortion racket, you know, protection fees, all that. Join us or we blow you up. Tried and true. Tried and true methodology. Qasimat, meanwhile, he leaves Iraq for Dubai, of course, but he's quickly kicked out and resettles back in Iraq in the fall. Hamad. Meanwhile, Qas Hamad, he leaves Iraq for Dubai, but he's quickly kicked out and resettles back in Iraq in the fall. By the way, we talk about Dubai being this home base for a lot of criminals, and I think it is, but I do feel like they've kind of, like, cracked down a bit, you know? Yeah, I mean, I just feel like we do still, like, remember Hush Puppy got Raid, all that sort of stuff. Like, it does seem like they're trying to clean it up a little bit.

B (38:22)

Yeah, I think in next week's episode as well, they do kick somebody out, which is pretty small fry when we listen to that show. But something is happening Anyway, here's the thing though too.

A (38:34)

With these guys that are outside the country and running stuff inside, it seems kind of counterintuitive, right? Not being on the ground to oversee your criminal empire. Remember Sunny always said you need your guys to see you in the neighborhood. You needed to make your face known to be on top of things. But nowadays I feel like it's not really the case. Like everything is phone. Like everything else in life too is. Everything is phone. Your life is lived on phone. It's all apps now, right? Everything's encryption. So there's no need for face to face. And if you can just hire people off the phone to do like the violent parts of the job, it seems pretty, I don't know, like you don't need to be there. Why? Like, even if you, if you, if they get you on stuff, if you're in some Middle Eastern country that doesn't give a crap about extra writing criminals to the west, you know, for the most part, like Turkey or Iraq or Iran, unless you really push it too far, like what's going to happen, especially if you're operating in like a northern European country or Australia or Canada, like it's not like the US in that regard. Like, no, no offense intended, but they can't really swing their baton around, like to put it euphemistically, you know, like smaller carrot, smaller stick. I mean the quality of life is certainly lower in a lot of these countries. But why wouldn't you leave and set up shop somewhere else where it's a lot harder to bring you down?

B (39:46)

Yeah. To tee up next week's show as well. That happens in a part of West Africa that I think you've been to as well.

A (39:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have. We'll, we'll get there. I think we're recording it right after this anyway. By December of 2023, all the weird Australian name censorship things are removed and the media starts naming Kazamad and detailing his operations. Writes the Australian newspaper the Age. Quote, the rise of a ruthless new kingpin has embroiled Melbourne's underworld in a gangland war in which police suspect he orchestrated a string of the tobacco war firebombs, a murder and a plot to desecrate the body of the sister of a long time enemy. He's got major players though, still in the country, like his cousin we talked about earlier. And Majid Aba Al Bahdi, said to be his operations manager, who drives a car with a personalized license plate, meoc, short for Middle Eastern Organized Crime, which is actually pretty Pretty funny. He's arrested in the beginning of 2024 at 25 years old and faces more than 30 charges, including more than a dozen related to firebombings, witness intimidation and armed robberies. The court details his lavish lifestyle, dropping 30k at Fendi and constantly eating at Nobu. Nobu. Nobu, Nobu, Nobu. I didn't realize there was a Nobu in Australia, but guess this guy liked to eat there. Maybe he was doing it in Dubai. Is there a Nobu in Australia, do you know?

B (41:05)

Do you think I got a Nobu? Jesus. What does Nobu even do? Sushi?

A (41:12)

I don't know, the Chilean sea bass thing. I mean, I've never been, but sponsorship opportunity right there.

B (41:17)

Yeah, why not?

A (41:18)

Yeah. Hamad and his crew, they get a lot of press during these court hearings or during his guys court hearings. Including a story of a $270,000 mail check from Kaz for his defense. And Kaz gets a reputation for spending top dollar on the criminal defense of his boys. He does stuff like send Rolls Royces to the courthouse to pick them up when they're charged, gets the top lawyers obviously and like gives a ton of cash to their families, all that sort of stuff. He really takes care of his, takes care of his crew. Meanwhile, his crew is also just still bombing the hell out of the Hadaras who just can't keep up. They just don't have the muscle. In November of 2023, his crew burns down Fadi Hadara's prized restaurant, the Charisma Restaurant, and a bunch of his other businesses, not just tobacco shops. Things are not looking good for them. Their backs are against the wall and their allies are leaving them. Then Fadi finds a tracker on his car. I think it's an airtag. And rumors of a one million dollar bounty being placed on his head make the rounds. There's talk of a deal of them being offered a safe way out. They give up all their tobacco businesses and pay a heavy cash sum and they get to keep their other businesses not involved in tobacco. They take the deal and pay CAS crew $1 million as well as hand over all their tobacco businesses and network. By April of 2024, they're basically out of the war. Kaz though, he still wants total control and there's still some other players he needs to bomb out. The war continues through 2024. But then December, January, three major incidents happen back to back to back. The first is that In December of 2024, there's an arson attack against the synagogue. And this goes Back to our recent episode about the Swedish gangsters that were hired out by the Iranians. I think the IRGC to attack Jewish sites. Fingers eventually point to Khas hamad. And in mid-2025 the Australians actually kick out the Iranian ambassador after determining they played a role. Hamad denies his involvement and it's still under investigation.

B (43:13)

Crazy shit.

A (43:15)

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B (43:52)

his kids will outgrow tomorrow.

A (43:54)

And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth.

B (43:59)

Bird budget secured.

A (44:01)

Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply.

B (44:07)

See website for details.

A (44:09)

I have created the most advanced AI soldier.

B (44:12)

The wait is over.

A (44:14)

Tron Ares now streaming on Disney plus. We are looking for something. Something you've discovered. Give me something to believe and some of us will stop at nothing to get it ready. The countdown is complete. There's no going back. Our directive is clear. Hang on. Tron Aries now streaming on Disney Plus. Rated PG13. Then in January of 2025, an innocent woman, a 27 year old, is killed when Kaza's guys firebomb the wrong house. There really haven't been that many murders, specifically in the tobacco wars. Especially a civilian like a young innocent woman being firebombed to death. That's not something that goes away quietly. And then at the end of January, we get our cold open. The execution style murder of Sam the Punisher Abdul Rahim. I'm unsure of whether or not Abdul Rahim was involved in tobacco market there, but I've seen some reports saying. But most don't mention it. Either way, it's seen as a real power move by Kaz and Hamad Syndicate that they're able to pull this off. Fun fact, in the year prior, Abdurrahim worked as a bodyguard for UFC fighter Khabib in Malaysia at a fight.

B (45:23)

Whoa buddy. Are you saying that the UFC attracts some shady characters?

A (45:27)

Dude, I don't know how their PR people Do it, man. With the amount of stuff that comes out of their guy's mouth or the stuff that they do, it is like Roger Goodall would have, I guess.

B (45:35)

Actually, the NFL people just love drinking energy.

A (45:38)

NFL things, things happen for sure, but not, not like the ufc, man. Not like the ufc. Things actually calm down for a while after this. There's a real lull in the violence. And in March, that task force lunar, they arrest 20 or so Hamad crew members, but in general, they don't have a ton of luck with prosecutions. 2024 sees a lot of cases collapse, a lot of witnesses and victims too scared to follow through. There's intimidation campaigns. And KAZ also pays, like we said, top defense attorneys in the spring and April. That's basically when the tobacco wars finally end and Kazama officially takes over and there's a truce. There's apparently another Middle Eastern crime family in the western suburbs that couldn't be named, that throws in the towel. And a businessman that secretly controls 400 tobacco shops nationwide that used to be allied with the Hadaras. He switches his allegiances to Kaza syndicate. CAS with all the power. He now ups the protection fee to $5,000 a month for each shop. Like we said, it had gone to 2K 3K. But now they call it the KAZ tax and it's a lot of money. I wonder what the profit margins are on $12 packs of cigarettes. No tax for these shops that it's worth that. One source put some of the big shops as moving as much as $50,000 worth of cigarettes a month. So I could probably calculate it somewhere with that. In July of that year, it's even reported that some members of the Hadara clan are now working under CAS and the Hamad Syndicate after meetings are held in Lebanon with Hamad guys and the head of a Dubai based cargo clearing company. So, yeah, the Hadara clan or family, apparently very big all over because this meeting is with elements that either broke away from Fadi or didn't have tight relations with him, or it's just business is business. And this is. This is amazing. A month after that meeting is held, he posts on social media. I think it was Facebook. I could be wrong, though. A photo of Leonardo DiCaprio. I think it from. From Blood diamond in black and white, like a portrait. And it's got a caption on it, a quote that Leo has never said. And it reads, Sean, let me tell you what it reads. Quote, a year ago, I would have died for certain people. A year later, Half of them are dead to me. Wow. I mean, this is the kind of thing that 17 year old girls on the Jersey shore whose boyfriends cheated on them with their best friends. They used to post that on their aim away messages. It just, it's powerful stuff. He must have been going through a lot.

B (47:57)

I mean, this is the kind of art AI is going to rob us of, man.

A (48:01)

But just like, I mean, I would have assumed he would have gone for like a black and white photo of Thomas Shelby, maybe something with like Tom Hardy. But honestly, like what a world. Or even like gangland bosses are sad quote posting on socials like, whatever. Whatever happened to the strong silent type, Sean Williams Now, I mean, look, look, me and you, we do some, some talking about our lives here on the podcast, maybe some shit talking on socials, but like earnest personal life slash emotion posting. Come on, man, you, you are a gangster. Have some self respect. Why are you a grown man sad posting like this?

B (48:33)

It's actually quite an outdated view, Danny. Dummy. Did you learn nothing from Melfi and Soprano?

A (48:38)

Like, come on, Tony couldn't do that. I mean, he could talk to like his wife and his higher ups, but he was. Tony was not on social media, okay? Like, there was no way come at

B (48:46)

this guy with a Sopranos reference. It was.

A (48:48)

How dare you? That is incredibly inaccurate and frankly, frankly apologize.

B (48:53)

Yeah, you can cut that entire bit out. Actually, I feel.

A (48:57)

Don't cut it. Show the world Sean.

B (48:58)

Sad post myself.

A (48:59)

Show the world. Show the world Sean's ignorance. You know, it's. I'm not saying don't be emotional, but like inside people, you know, you know, keep it, keep it. Have nothing wrong with it.

B (49:10)

I just don't want to say it.

A (49:10)

A little bit of shame. A little bit of shame. Fahd, if you're out there though, be strong, brother. You know, like God. Shuts a window, opens a door, Shuts a door, opens a window, you'll make new friends.

B (49:22)

Is that in Russia? I don't know.

A (49:24)

It's doable. Yeah, join a, Join a, join a club. You know, maybe a rec soccer league like Sean did.

B (49:30)

That's true. It's very nice.

A (49:31)

Are you gonna.

B (49:31)

Are you crying?

A (49:32)

Soccer league? Are you gonna join a rec soccer league in Argentina? I think I'm gonna smoke you, boy.

B (49:36)

Oh, I'm already on it, mate. I'm already on it. I mentioned that.

A (49:41)

I'm.

B (49:41)

I went on an app where you can choose a team and they make you choose your like, level of ability out of five and I picked four out of five stars. In Argentina, and I'm about to get embarrassed.

A (49:52)

They have Tinder for soccer teams. Love.

B (49:54)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (49:55)

Get the F out of here. That is incredible. Dude. They should do Tinder for drinking in. Does that exist?

B (50:04)

Is that WhatsApp? I don't know. That's just everyone in Buenos.

A (50:07)

No, but, like, you want to. You want to get a beer, like, as you age, as you hit, like, 35, and all your friends either get married or move away, they should have, like, a thing where, like, you need to. I just came up with that idea. Right. This is genius.

B (50:17)

So.

A (50:18)

And you want to, like, what?

B (50:19)

Just sad, man. Who want to find.

A (50:20)

Yes, I'm older than 35, who, like, want to go drinking on, like, a Wednesday night, but most of their friends either have real jobs or families, and they can't. So you're like, let me scroll through and see. And you put, like, what you want to talk about? Make it be like the NFL.

B (50:35)

The NFL crypto alien pyramids. Yeah, dude.

A (50:38)

This is our. Should we cut this? Is this our. Is this our million dollar idea?

B (50:42)

Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, why not?

A (50:44)

We're going to solve the male loneliness.

B (50:45)

We're going to end this episode, and

A (50:47)

we should leave it up just so investors know that they can come to us. We're idea guys. Anyway, where were we? Oh, yeah. Fadi Haddad is very sad. Although maybe, maybe he has good reason to be. Because one thing we haven't talked about, and one of the things handed over to Kaz is a big stake in the most popular underground tobacco cigarette company that's sold in Australia. Now this. This is fascinating. The company's name is Manchester United Kingdom, and technically it's illegal to import or sell their cigs in Australia. Well, not technically. It is illegal. Now, the company is supposedly headquartered in the uk, Though. It's really just a PO Box there, like in the new season of industry with that. That tender and all that. By the way, I find this sort of gray area, like import, export, financial crime stuff, more fascinating than the firebombing stuff.

B (51:37)

Yeah.

A (51:38)

Because it's a crazy look at how the organized crime big players actually work. Right. So this company, it operates out of that free zone we mentioned earlier in the uae, the Jebel Ali free zone, which is also one of the busiest shipping ports in the world and, quote, serviced by a vast plane of factories and warehouses that enjoy special tax advantages, employment conditions, and secrecy provisions governing their operations. Which is a very euphemistic way of talking about how businesses run in the uae. The Hadaras apparently had a stake in it. Remember their international connections in Lebanon and Dubai? Now, the brand itself, like I said, legally, this is important. Legally manufactures cigarettes in Dubai, but cigarettes in nearly every country in the world have very strict requirements for quality, for packing everything. I think it's like 97% of the population of the world lives in countries where these cigarettes would be illegal if sold there. But they're legally made in the free zone and legally sold to the exporters. And the company can say, well, we sold them legally, which happens. What happens after isn't our business. Right. So then the exporters, who I would wager are just a different shell company from the manufacturer, but run by the same people, then illegally smuggle them into Australia and then spread them out through the network of shops the syndicate controls, which is kind of fascinating. Right? Like, this is a really good hustle.

B (52:57)

Yeah. This money stuff is, like, so, so interesting. Also, I used to play football in Jebel Ali. Incredibly weird place.

A (53:05)

Of course we did.

B (53:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (53:06)

More containers, actually.

B (53:07)

We had the Lebanese guys on the wing because they were, like, tiny and they're really quick, but I think they bolted on, like, a golf course and a mega mall and a bunch of other stuff. Because each one of these free zones is run by some different Emirati prints. Right. So they each want to build their own Disneyland in the desert. I think there's a palm in Jebel Ali that almost no one lives on as well. It's a really, really weird place. And I'm 99 sure that I've smoked Manchester UK cigarettes in Dubai, and I'm still alive, so maybe we should legalize it.

A (53:39)

I missed the. The ones we used to smoke in Syria. The French ones. I don't even know. They're made in France. Probably not galaxies.

B (53:44)

Oh, God, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (53:47)

Those were incredible, dude. Yeah, dude, I used to rip pack, and there's something about, like, being in the desert, drinking tea, where I could smoke, like, two packs a day and be fine. But, like, I go home and smoke, like, four parliaments and I'm, like, coughing all night.

B (54:00)

Yeah, you got to make sure that someone takes a photo of you wearing, like, a bulletproof vest, smoking a Galois. Then, oh, that's. That's tender soy for the rest of

A (54:07)

your life, sitting around with a bunch of useless soldiers just ripping cigs all day and drinking tea. Take nothing better. Nothing better. I missed that also. How do you play soccer? Football, whatever. Outside in Dubai, dude, you have to

B (54:21)

do it around 10pm and then it's 40 degrees and then you drink water every 10 seconds and then you just about. Don't die.

A (54:29)

That adds up. That adds up. Okay, so the Hadaras and now Kazamad syndicate control everything top down with E cigarettes, from manufacturing to distro to retail. Some estimate the profit on this is in the billions, though that sounds exaggerated, but I have seen 900 million bandied around and it might be legit. We talked about how many. How many cigarettes people are buying, how much. It's moving, like it seems like there's a lot of money there. Report to the Sydney Morning Herald. Quote, Manchester, United Kingdom, owned by JSS Tobacco Ltd. Is just one of hundreds of companies that occupy a suite in the building, a virtual office that has been described as a scammer's paradise by the British media. This is the PO Box area. The suite has appeared as a registered place of business in multiple legal proceedings and document leaks related to tax avoidance schemes. Incorporation records show JSS Tobacco Ltd. Has just one employee in Britain and its operation is so small it is not required to file financial paperwork except the declaration that, quote, the company confirms that its intended future activities are lawful.

B (55:27)

Jesus. The UK is such a pirate nation, man. I mean, there is not an Arab or a Russian oligarch or gangster that we will not channel all of their funds into the UK. It's nuts.

A (55:39)

Love it. I love it. The UAE apparently exports 100 billion cigarettes a year. I had no idea. The article continues. The Jebel Ali Free Zone is home to more than 20 tobacco factories and has become a major transit point for illicit cigarettes smuggled into Australia, Europe and beyond, according to intelligence assessments and court records. What's interesting is that this isn't super new. There's a BBC article from 2015 detailing how Manchester Brent is a problem already in the Australian black market, but it doesn't go into ownership now. The Adaras may have had a huge stake in Manchester, which has then transferred to Qasamad, but the true owner, according to documents, is Khaled Al Muhamid, who is a Syrian businessman who was prominent in the Assad opposition. So no idea what he's doing now. Could be in the government. Who knows? Wild stuff happening in the Middle east and just fascinating. Honestly. This is like the stuff I love learning about when it comes to international organized crime. Maybe not as sexy as, like, dudes offing each other in alleyways, but definitely makes you think about how. How the world works, you know? And just when you think it could not get any crazier. In early 2024, Australia bans importing vapes. Apparently vapes can be sold only through pharmacies now. Anyway, the ban, they ban importing vapes. So Casa Mod and his crew link up with Chinese organized crime groups, most notably a guy known as Chinese Simon to start importing Chinese made babes straight from the source, Shenzhen, which I mean a lot of bad, like the nicknames in Australia for crime. Notorious crime family. That's your gang's name? Chinese Simon? That's your guy's gang. Like come on, man, these guys aren't even trying. Anyway. This kind of reminds me of the thing the US did that was incredibly idiotic, where they banned flavored jewels. Rip mango. You were too good for this world. Because I don't know, like Jules were refillable or something, which again, jewel American made, many American manufactured. Then the market just gets flooded with disposable Chinese basement vapes with like Baskin Robbins flavored strawberry guava, cotton candy, gumball or whatever, which are 1000% poison and unregulated instead of having the American manufacturer probably still poison, but maybe like not as bad Fruit flavored jewels. Just a complete moronic on goal ban air bar. Fan out bar. Bring back mango juulpods. It's goddamn crooks in Congress, Sean.

B (57:58)

I tell you, I mean, I agree with you, this stuff is so fascinating. I just looked up how many cigarettes are smoked in the world each year and it is 6 trillion and 1 in 10 is illicit. So like that is massive. That is a gigantic market. But yeah, like this dark money, like illicit companies, tax havens, flying cash. I mean, I think the estimates at the moment are that 1 in 8 or $9 in the world is dark. So it's in the criminal economy, which is, oh, it's pretty, pretty consequential stuff, all of this.

A (58:30)

I wonder if tobacco companies are banned from advertising on podcasts. I know they're banned on tv. Are they banned on podcasts?

B (58:37)

I don't know.

A (58:38)

I feel like they have.

B (58:39)

But I mean, I feel less worried about cigarettes than I do most podcast advertisers. So bring it on.

A (58:47)

Where was I? Yeah. So Kaz links up with Chinese Simon again, major international criminal groups. And he's bringing in this vape company called Alibar Bar, which is a hilarious name for a vape company. And the vapes sell for 35 to $50 and probably cost 12 cents for the vape itself and 22 cents for the lead based fruit flavors. And again, just insane profit margins. Like why bother with heroin when you can just move this? But all is not well. In the world of Casamat, he settled in now living in a wealthy suburb of Baghdad and a fortified compound with armed soldiers patrolling. He claims that family high up in the government, including in the military, one would assume he's untouchable. But that turns out to not be the case. In mid January, reports the Australian press quote, Iraq's national center for International Judicial Cooperation announced that Hamad, accused of shootings, murders, kidnappings, violent assault, extortion, drug imports, have been arrested in response to an official request from Australia. Interestingly, it's not just that one would expect Iraq not to give a damn when someone is wanted to buy Australia, and especially when someone has high level connections in the government. It's also that Australia has a policy of not assisting foreign governments if charges can lead to the death penalty, which they can in Iraq for these charges.

B (59:59)

Well, also they spent years chasing this guy and doing absolutely nothing about his gigantic empire. So it's kind of boggling that they now, now they do something.

A (60:07)

Yeah, in fact, even Hamad thought he was pretty much untouchable. In the week leading up to his arrest, he gives an interview to an Australian media personality, blogger, podcaster named Ryan Namenko, who was once like, you know, I think a gangster in the underworld now has a podcast and site called Outlaw Media. You know, one of those guys, he's done a bunch of reporting on the tobacco wars, even at his house, broken into because of it. I think some people roughed up his grandmother. He actually had this comment where he was like, yeah, they hit like my grandmother said they hit like, like, like cowards or like little girls or something like that, which is like, you know, pretty, pretty funny thing to, to say. He's done, like I said, a bunch of reporting on, on the, on the tobacco wars. So Kazamad goes on his show to talk and talk he does mentioning that he had been actually been arrested before in Malaysia, in Turkey, but had been sprung free, that not only was he untouchable in Iraq, but he had, he had heard from friends at Australian authorities, even admitted as much.

B (61:00)

I mean, what do we say? What is our, what is our tagline? Like, what is he doing on a podcast, man?

A (61:05)

Do not Instagram your crime friends. Do not podcast your crime friends. So he starts talking about on the podcast how he pays $220,000 a month to his crew in Australia. And he also adds, sounding very Australian, and I'm going to do, I think we can try an Australian accent, right?

B (61:20)

Yeah, that's, that's totally cool because he's

A (61:23)

like, he's He's Iraqi, but he has the, like, really Australian accent. And I can't do accents, but I'm going to do it anyway because the way he says he's like, yes. I swear to God, mate, I wake up, I get messages, bro, you're a sick cunt. We love you. That's what. That's all. Can you do it? I mean, can you, like. You do, like, heaps. Heaps. That's all I can do. And I'll show. All right. I sound like. I sound like Jonah from Tonga when I do it, but that's. That's all I got.

B (61:44)

Yeah, we're at the end of the show, so we can just mess around. I mean, yeah, bro, you're a sick cunt. We love you.

A (61:51)

Yeah, that was.

B (61:52)

That was more like sort of Eric Banner and Chopper, but, you know, every day.

A (61:56)

But it's funny when you hear his voice because you don't expect him to have, like, the quintessential Australian. Australian accent. And he really does. He also says, I'm not gonna do the accent for this one because it's not as good. I want my boys to be proud of who they are. That's what I want. I don't want nothing. I know my boys. If anything happens, they're there for us all.

B (62:11)

I mean, you've never once said anything like this on the group WhatsApp. I'm pretty.

A (62:15)

That's not true. I say stuff like that all the time. I hype you up all the time, dude. Every week I'm like, sean, this episode is great. Don't I? Don't I say that?

B (62:22)

Yeah, you actually did that, like a couple hours ago. So that was. That was.

A (62:24)

I do it all the time. I do it every week.

B (62:26)

Gave me a little spring in my.

A (62:27)

Yeah, well, this one, it's bad, but most of them are very good people. Just don't listen to yours for some reason. But, yeah, not much is known about his situation right now. Yeah, especially right now. But he is detained in Iraq currently. There was a mug shot recently posted. But who knows if he's going to get out or not? Honestly, my money kind of says he's freed in Iraq. He's got too much cash to spread around. There's no Kalgi Market yet for it, but I'll keep my eyes open. Meanwhile, Australian media reports that his cousin who we talked about earlier, Ahmed Alhamza, Next Line State charge. And he's set to most likely be in Iran or even Kuwait. Probably better to be in Kuwait right now. So the Australian underworld and Kaz's crew, they live on. But who knows if someone else will now rise up to take over his tobacco shops like Kaz did to the Hadaras. And look, I mean, I'm no genius, but, like, how hard is it to actually shut this down? Like, I mean, there's 1300 shops. One guy could probably hit 20 or 30 in a day, go in there, buy Manchester. It's illegal grounds to go back with a search warrant or whatever the laws in Australia is. Confiscate all the legal ones, like, rinse, repeat, day after day. Like, fine, shut them down. If there's repeated offenses, like, what am I missing? Are you like. Like, chat callers? Whatever. Let me know. Why is this so hard?

B (63:35)

Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure there are cameras in most shops. And you could probably listen to a podcast where the guy who is doing this says that he's spending a quarter of a million dollars, like, on his crew to do this exact crime. I don't know.

A (63:48)

Yeah. All right. That was a great episode. I might. Dude, I think, actually, I'm going to look into, like, vibe coding that app. If it's good enough, I'm going to tell Dale to delete that, because that could be real. Dude, we could make money doing that.

B (63:59)

Well, you could. Does it have to be funny? Like, does it have to keep. Be kind of like.

A (64:03)

No, I think it could be a real. I think it could be a real app. I'm going to ask people after this.