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- [00:01]
Kyle Bonagura
It's Wednesday.
- [00:01]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Adams.
- [00:02]
Kyle Bonagura
I see you're trying to distract yourself from your own banal thoughts. Let me help.
- [00:08]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Here's a recording thing made of my latest root canal.
- [00:23]
Kyle Bonagura
Wednesday Season two is now playing only on Netflix.
- [00:30]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
They say to only bring what you can carry. So with the all new 2025 Ford Expedition Tremor, bring a lot like three.
- [00:38]
Kyle Bonagura
Dirt bikes, a few tents, an entire.
- [00:40]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Crew ready to make memories, a panoramic.
- [00:43]
Kyle Bonagura
24 inch display, and the confidence to push your limits.
- [00:47]
Adam Rittenberg
The all new 2025 Ford Expedition Tremor. Always consult the owner's manual before off road driving.
- [00:52]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Know your terrain and trail difficulty and use appropriate safety gear.
- [00:54]
Adam Rittenberg
Max payload varies based on accessories, vehicle configuration.
- [00:56]
Kyle Bonagura
See label and door jam for carrying.
- [00:58]
Adam Rittenberg
Capacity of a specific vehicle.
- [00:59]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Always secure cargo.
- [01:05]
Kyle Bonagura
The moment he heard his sister Dolores was gone, Matthew Slick Rocha sprung into action. In the months before her disappearance, as tensions between Dolores and Carl escalated, Slick had opened his door to her, offering not just a place to stay, but an open ended invitation to remain as long as she needed. He returned to the wolf home after he learned she was gone, troubled by the thought if she had just stayed with him a little longer, things might have turned out differently. In the days that followed, the Rocha cousins often gathered in Slick's kitchen to plot their next moves. Slick stayed out of their antics, but thought about his own ways to get answers. While Carl had to deal with the cousins and their relentless pressure. The most serious threat he faced was his brother in law. Slick wanted to make him talk and was prepared to do whatever was needed, including something he called Plan B. I.
- [02:07]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Was going to take him up to the hills west of here, tie him to a tree, and before doing that, I was going to dig a grave and I was going to put a gun to his head, shotgun or whatever, and say, well, you got two choices, Wolf. You can tell me or the police tomorrow where she's at or I can blow your head off. And I assumed that he would choose the first one now. Wouldn't have his head blown off the.
- [02:43]
Kyle Bonagura
Way he told us. This story was so matter of fact, there was no crisis of conscience, no moral hurdle, just a plan. A plan that he was uniquely qualified to carry out. But as plan B came together, the rest of his family stepped in.
- [03:03]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
They all came to me. You can, you know, you gotta raise DeLorean's kids and if you kill him, you'll go to jail, you know. That's why plan B never transpired, which was for the best.
- [03:18]
Kyle Bonagura
Slick's dilemma revealed a kind of man we hadn't encountered before in this story or any other we've told. But what ultimately held him back, the other side of Slick, made him a steady, even healing presence for his nephews, Paul and Tom. In this episode, we'll look at both sides of Uncle Slick. How the Wolf brothers found comfort and security under his watchful eye. How. How he helped them cope with the loss of their mother. And how his own harrowing past as a soldier who served in some of the most intense conflicts of the 20th century shaped the kind of protector he became. I'm Kyle Bonagara.
- [03:59]
Adam Rittenberg
And I'm Adam Rittenberg. This is the unforgotten. Season 3 Finding Dolores Wolf Episode 4 Uncle Slick.
- [04:18]
Kyle Bonagura
At 12 years old, Paul Wolf had a normal life. A doting mother, a big supportive family. Maybe his father wasn't some warm, caring person, but at that age, Paul wasn't aware of the serious red flags about Carl's behavior. One day things felt normal, the next, his mother was gone. And the way she disappeared meant Paul didn't just lose her. He essentially lost both parents. Paul and his older brother Tom entered their most formative years surrounded by tragedy and scandal. And it all played out on the front page of the small town newspaper.
- [05:00]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Here's Paul as a kid and you're in junior high and you're in high school and you can tell people are talking around you or you walk away and you hear them say something, oh, that's the kid, that's mom this or dad this or flat out kids just not having a filter and being young and say, my parents don't want me to hang out with you. They don't know what you're like and your family situation and flat out, just tell me right to my face, you know, and. Or I hear it whispering. And so, you know, that's the stuff that's. Well, how could you not be embarrassed when you're 14, you're 15 and you know, people were afraid to approach you, you know, I didn't live a normal life that way.
- [05:39]
Kyle Bonagura
Paul and Tom found shreds of normalcy after they moved into Uncle Slick's country home and started living alongside their cousins. Tom and cousin Matt Jr were about the same age, just as Paul was with cousin David for years, even long.
- [05:55]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Before this ever happened. We would spend the night on weekends all the time. We got along very, very well. And to this day we're very close and we still talk to each other all the time. When we went and moved in with them, all of a sudden we moved into their bedrooms. It's me and my cousin living in the same room for five years. And then my older brother Tom and Matt lived in there for two, three years before they went off to college.
- [06:18]
Kyle Bonagura
Much of their lives revolved around sports. Football, baseball, basketball, whatever was in season. They raised animals and generally ran wild on the property. If you were to take out the reason why they were all together for those years, it would have been an ideal way for the boys to grow up. Here's Matt Rocha Jr. We had a.
- [06:40]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Barn and horses and cows and pigs. So when kids came to our house, it was like some type of farm Disneyland because we could stay up as late as we wanted in the summers and sometimes it would be hide and go seek till three in the morning, hiding on other people's property.
- [06:54]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
And the city's kids would be scared.
- [06:55]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Shitless to go into the barn, which was dark at night, that had cows, horses, pigs, and probably wild feral cats.
- [07:02]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
And they'd go, I'm not going in there.
- [07:05]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
You know, the wolves and the roaches always hide where the city kids are scared of going.
- [07:10]
Kyle Bonagura
Farm Disneyland was located about 10 miles south of the wolf home. But it might as well have been a new world for the wolf boys.
- [07:18]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
For what happened, we probably had as good of a growing up as possibly could happen because we had such a close friendship. And Paul, I can't Even imagine being 12 years old and going through what he went through. But he was always very stoic. He never showed a lot of emotion. But then in the times when he'd get a beat down in their football or wiffle ball and we'd start putting into his face, he'd start crying and throw fists when it probably wasn't appropriate. And then looking back, realizing that he was letting out all the angst and pain that he had in a different way.
- [07:50]
Kyle Bonagura
There was pain for Tom, too. He was older, but showed his emotions more than Paul. He also had the most strained relationship with his father before his mother went missing.
- [08:02]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
We had rifles in our room at a gun rack one time Tom snapped within the first year and took off in his truck with one of the guns. And my mom or dad followed him because it's like 10 miles down a country road and Tom was pounding on the door trying to get in with his gun. He was going to shoot his dad.
- [08:21]
Kyle Bonagura
Tom also leaned on another family, the Sheras. We heard a little bit about that from Joel last episode. He's the one who owns the wolf house today. Tom lived with the Shearers for a stretch, as well as his brother Carly and Sister in law Heidi. Their other uncle Frank lived nearby and was always ready to help if needed. There would be influential figures in both Tom and Paul's lives over the years. But none had a more profound impact than their uncle Slick. In our conversations with Tom and Paul, neither was overly emotional, even when talking about their mother. Tom is in his 60s now and raises cattle on a farm in Montana. Paul has spent his career coaching high level football. These are pretty rugged guys. But there was a soft spot for Slick. Here's Tom.
- [09:15]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
He's kind of like Popeye. He's got those arms. Even at 80, you know, he wasn't a very real big man. He was 6 foot, 6 foot one, but just in crazy shape and condition. And I don't know that he ever worked out. He just worked. But that being said, his heart was so big.
- [09:38]
Kyle Bonagura
What does your uncle mean to you now, looking back at how he kind of stepped in and played such an.
- [09:44]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Important part in your life? Excuse me.
- [09:53]
Kyle Bonagura
No, you're fine. We understand.
- [09:57]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
That's not sad at all.
- [10:02]
Kyle Bonagura
But he's pretty precious.
- [10:06]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Even before he was precious, he was there for us since we were little. He's a great man. He was just always there for any of us. Didn't matter in what capacity. And he never demanded anything or asked anything in return. He just was always there.
- [10:31]
Kyle Bonagura
Slick was their protector, a role he had taken on for other people in his life. He had a pact with Dolores that if something happened to either of them, they would watch after each other's kids. And he took that responsibility seriously. When Tom and Paul lived with Slick, their mother's disappearance wasn't something that was normally discussed. Slick didn't think it was appropriate to provide young Paul with constant updates, especially when there was nothing positive to share.
- [11:03]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Paul was totally quiet. The only talking about any of that kind of stuff to him was Tom, his brother. Always quiet. Like as if she just moved into another place and nothing happened. Well, obviously he knew something happened. Something bad happened. I know Tom crying. I'd been crying inside and he never asked me any questions about it. I think they always went to his brother to see what his brother had to say, which was okay because Tom was like 16 or 17 by then. And Tom knew what the situation was. So I knew he wasn't going to tell Paul some lies. I trusted his brother well, and his older brother to talk to him in a gentle way.
- [11:48]
Kyle Bonagura
Slick was a steadying presence for Paul and Tom. He supported them in athletics, which became an increasingly big part of their lives. He served on the little League board and coached many kids in the area. His approach toward mentorship inspired Paul to pursue a career in coaching. Paul is now the head football coach at Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo, his third role as a head coach at the college level after stops at Eastern Washington and Washington State. These are big jobs with a lot of responsibility. Paul was also an assistant coach with The San Francisco 49ers, Slick's favorite team, when they went to the super bowl in early 2013. Paul has a lasting admiration for his uncle.
- [12:35]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
The most impressive man I've ever met. You know, I've had more respect for him than any human on this that I've ever met and ever will meet. He's the most respected man and he was a phenomenal uncle. He was a great dad to me. He was a teacher. He led by example. His selflessness is off the chart when.
- [12:55]
Kyle Bonagura
Reporting a story like this. Part of the process is asking interview subjects. Who else would be best to talk to about the details? Paul had spoken extensively with us about his uncle, so it made sense to put Slick on the list. But that posed a bit of a problem.
- [13:14]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
He can't hear for crafts like he has no hearing. I mean, you'd have to see him in person.
- [13:20]
Kyle Bonagura
Usually that wouldn't have been an issue because we prefer to conduct interviews in person. But this was the fall of 2020 and Covid was still very much a part of daily life. We had been doing all our other interviews over zoom or on the phone. And the idea of visiting an 82 year old man at that time meant taking some precautions. But based on everything we heard about Slick from Paul, we figured it would be worth the effort. But before we get into that, we should say that the nickname Slick didn't come from his time in the army, but well after he was already a father and was coaching kids and many others from the area. Slick would nickname his players in pretty much any kid he came across.
- [14:06]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
I'm great with nicknames. I coached, who knows, 5,000 kids and I had a nickname for every one of them, including my own kids. Now, Matthew I called Stink, like Big Stinker. David was kind of husky and I called him Van Bozo. Elizabeth, I just called him Sissy. Paul, I called him Wog and people say Wog. Why do you call him Wog? He says, well, I started out when he was little. I called him Pollywog. Later I just shortened it to wog.
- [14:38]
Kyle Bonagura
Matt Jr. Eventually decided to send a nickname back at his old man. Noticing his father was going bald, Matt started calling Him Slick, because of his shiny scalp.
- [14:49]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Of course, it was reversed on me. I became Little Slick or Slick junior, even though I had a full head.
- [14:55]
Kyle Bonagura
Of hair before we went to visit him. Slick's sons also warned us that their dad was hard of hearing. There had been an incident that happened while he was in the army and he was never willing to wear hearing aids. So before making the trek up from the Bay Area to Slick's apartment in Woodland, we stopped off to buy some audio recording equipment. If nothing else, we thought if Slick was wearing headphones and we were speaking into microphones and he would have a better chance to hear us clearly. We arrived at his senior living complex on the edge of Woodland on a late morning that December. It was a tan three story building with iron railings outside the apartments. Slick came to the gate to greet us. We had heard a lot about him at this point. In his younger years he had been an incredible athlete. USC wanted him to play baseball there, and some local coaches thought he could have made the big leagues. Slick had remained an elite softball player into his 60s. But after years of existing on a diet of Pepsi Fried Chicken, chocolate and three packs of cigarettes a day, those days were gone. Time had caught up with him. He wore a blue polo shirt, Nike sweatpants and Velcro shoes. He walked gingerly with his back hunched, and inside his apartment there was an overwhelming smell of cigarette smoke that had left the walls tinted a pale yellow. Paul and Matt Jr. Had both told us a little bit about Slick's military career. And on his walls there were several photos from his time in the army, along with others of his family. Slick sat down in his recliner and we got settled in the family room. Then Slick started to speak and we were immediately transfixed. After the break, you'll hear from Adam about Slick and how he carved out a unique place in American history. First on the ground in Arkansas protecting the Little Rock nine. Then in the jungles of Vietnam carrying out covert missions before the war had fully broken out. So I've always heard about hellofresh, but I just went for it and I placed my very first order. You've probably heard of Hellofresh. They send chef crafted recipes and fresh ingredients straight to your house. But this summer they made their biggest menu upgrade yet. There are seasonal dishes and recipes from around the world with bigger portions. It also helps you feel great because the menu is even healthier with high protein and veggie packed recipes. For my first order, my wife Laura and I went through the list with over 100 options to choose from. I'm super excited to try these Garlic herb butter basted scallops and one pan Banh Mi chicken tacos. I'm not sure what that is, but it sounds amazing. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com unforgotten10fm now to get 10 free meals and a free item for life. One per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com unforgotten10fm to get 10 free meals and a free item for life. Subtle results, still you, but with fewer lines Botox Cosmetic Adobotulinum Toxinae is a prescription medicine used to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better in adults. Effects of Botox Cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Don't receive Botox Cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow and eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Tell your doctor about medical history, muscle or nerve conditions including ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease, mild myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eden syndrome and medications including Botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. For full safety information, visit botoxcosmetic.com or call 877-351-0300. See for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com.
- [19:26]
Adam Rittenberg
Buried inside the pages of the Sacramento Bee on Sept. 20, 1956, was a single sentence item that hardly seems like it should have qualified as news. Army signs Recruit, it reads, followed by the Army Recruiting office in the Federal Building in Sacramento reports the enlistment of Matthew J. Rocha of Woodland, Yolo County. That's it. But it was a step that would change Slick's life forever. As Kyle mentioned earlier, Slick was a phenomenal athlete growing up, and after he enlisted, the powers that be within the army quickly recognized he had the potential to be much more than a regular soldier. He started with basic training in Colorado before he tried his hand at becoming a paratrooper.
- [20:15]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Okay, well volunteer, you get to go to pre jump, but you ain't made it. You got two weeks of calisthenics and running your ass off and then you go two weeks of jump school where you learn how to jump out of the plane towers and stuff. You volunteer for that, but you can quit at any time. And everybody's asking you, you want to quit? You want to quit. You go five and a half days a week. You're only getting four hours sleep a night. They're hounding the hell out of you. Well, our class, which starts with a thousand, graduated 234. They're running you through the ringer. You want to quit? You want to quit while it's Dublin, etc. That's like my old man. They gonna make me quit.
- [20:56]
Adam Rittenberg
Over several months, Slick passed every test the army put in front of him. He endured long interviews and grueling physical challenges. At each step, the men next to him were either dismissed or dropped out voluntarily. Eventually, he was left with an elite group within the 101st Airborne Division who would be called on for some of the military's most high priority missions.
- [21:22]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
That division was formed at the beginning of World War II. You ever heard this movie, Band of Brothers? That was that division right after World War II. They disbanded them. Then when I went into the service, they were starting it up again. I got ranked real quick.
- [21:41]
Adam Rittenberg
You mentioned that interview that they did. Why do you think your personality or makeup made them pick you?
- [21:48]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Well, physically, I had over 300 on physical training tests. Only about one guy in a hundred can get a score that high. Questions they'd ask you, they configure personality. Are you willing to die for your country? I said, if it's a good cause, I'm willing to die for the country. And questions like that, if you're in this situation or that situation, what would you do? And they ask you all these kind of questions, but mainly they're trying to find out, does this guy have the guts is what they're trying to find out. It's just like I told you. I called up Wolf and I told him if he didn't tell to his words, I was going to slit his throat. Most guys don't talk that way. Most guys don't want to talk that way, but that's the truth. That's what I said. And I talked that way. You have no problem killing anybody? No, I ain't got no problem killing anybody. Especially at war. You better kill them before they kill you.
- [22:47]
Adam Rittenberg
But before Slick was called to serve his country overseas, his first mission out of training took place on American soil in Little Rock, Arkansas, in September of 1957.
- [23:00]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Good evening, my fellow citizens. For a few minutes this evening, I should like to speak to you about the serious situation that has arisen in Little Rock. To make this talk, I have come to the President's office in the White House. I could have spoken from Rhode island of where I have been staying recently, but I felt that in speaking from the house of Lincoln, of Jackson and of Wilson, my words would better convey both the sadness I feel in the action I was compelled today to make and the firmness with which I intend to pursue this course until the orders of the federal court at Little Rock can be executed without unlawful interference. In accordance with that responsibility, I have today issued an executive order directing the use of troops under federal authority to aid in the execution of federal law.
- [24:01]
Adam Rittenberg
And Little Rock, Arkansas President Dwight D. Eisenhower's speech from the Oval office came three weeks after a group of African American students were denied entry to Central High School in Little Rock in what was supposed to be the beginning of desegregation of schools in the capital city of Arkansas. The action followed the Brown vs. Board of Education ruling by the Supreme Court three years earlier that stated that racial segregation in public schools was unconstitutional. Arkansas governor Orval Faubus had dispatched the Arkansas National Guard in part to keep out those students who have since been known as the Little Rock Nine.
- [24:43]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
You go down there during those days, if you're a black man or a woman, you're walking along the street at nighttime, they're like, will grab you and kill you. That's how bad it was. So they were really just vicious about integrating all white school with black kids. So they sent us down. We were fully trained, already getting ready to go to war.
- [25:06]
Adam Rittenberg
Eisenhower would send roughly 1,000 soldiers from the 101st Airborne to Little Rock. But Slick was part of a small initial group that was assigned to be personal protectors.
- [25:18]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
I was assigned one girl driving a jeep to pick her up, bring her back, go to class with her, make sure nobody picked on her and that kind of stuff. So all nine of them, we were protecting them.
- [25:30]
Adam Rittenberg
They weren't there to mess around. And on the first day, a man tried to grab one of the soldiers rifles.
- [25:37]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
I was the squad leader. I grabbed one of my men's rifle, the colonel, the traineders. I looked at him, he looked at me, he said, put him down. I just hit him with a, they call it a vertical butt stroke. Caught him across the head and started bleeding like crazy.
- [25:57]
Adam Rittenberg
Slick's elite unit was only there less than a week as the 101st was getting settled for what would be a two month stay. But on another day, he was walking towards the school escorting the girl when three white guys on the sidewalk tried to stop him.
- [26:12]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
And I got my rifle with me. What do they say? You ain't taking that to school. I'm from California in Davis where there wasn't any black kids anyway. But that had nothing to do with it. We were raised different, you know, better than anybody else. So I kicked a round out. A round means bullet to show my was loaded and. And then I just looked at the guy with the mouth. I said the next one is going to go right between your eyes. They got off the sidewalk and I would, I would have killed them if they got violent physical.
- [26:50]
Kyle Bonagura
Do you remember the name of the girl that you were assigned to?
- [26:53]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Oh, my daughter's name. Elizabeth.
- [26:56]
Adam Rittenberg
Elizabeth Eckford would go on to become a well known American civil rights activist stemming from her involvement at Central High. We reached out to Elizabeth to see if she remembered Slick, but through an intermediary she said she did not remember him specifically. There were several soldiers who cycled through during that time. But in her children's book titled the Worst First Bullied while desegregating Little Rock Central High, Eckford wrote, quote, the Hundred.
- [27:25]
Kyle Bonagura
First Airborne soldiers protected us in a way no one else could. They were fearless, strong and prepared for anything the mob might try. As we headed to school, it felt like we were headed to war. Incredibly, some segregationists tried to fight the Hundred First. By and large, most of the protesters eventually followed the soldiers commands. But two men who didn't comply were.
- [27:50]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Beaten with rifle butts.
- [27:56]
Adam Rittenberg
Slick's unit within the 101st Airborne Division was made up of 12 men. After they were pulled from Little Rock they were sent to South Vietnam where the US military was operating before the full scale war broke out. Years later, paratroopers from Slick's unit would be dropped across enemy lines to conduct secret missions which included targeted assassinations of enemy leaders. For Slick, that meant parachuting in under the COVID of darkness armed with only a knife, some wire, explosives and about three days worth of survival supplies. This is simplifying things. But his missions were usually to identify and eliminate opposing leaders or blow ammo dumps in enemy encampments.
- [28:42]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Eagle worked alone. The CIA had found an encampment and fly past it a couple miles. Yeah, free fall out of there from about 5,000ft and get down to the ground, dig a hole, bury my parachute. Then I'd go to the encampment. There's always be a couple guards. You had to kill them using a knife. I know this sounds cold blooded but that's I don't know what other way you can say it. And then you go in there and again using the knife, you killed the high ranking guy.
- [29:15]
Adam Rittenberg
When that part was complete, he would set a timer for about 20 minutes that would trigger an explosion, providing cover to help with an evacuation.
- [29:24]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
You had to have an area that had an opening where a helicopter could land and there was no enemy around. And that wasn't always the case. Sometimes I'd get stuck there and they'd be eaten raw snake.
- [29:36]
Kyle Bonagura
So then you just radio to them that you're ready for.
- [29:38]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
I radio to them, yeah, I have to do that. From a pretty high altitude. Had what's called a PRC 10. They only got about a, I don't know, 15, 20 mile range or something like that. I was Alpha One, that was my code name, Alpha One, ready to detach. Where's your locale? Then I'd read it off the map. Is everything clear there? I wouldn't be calling you if it's not clear. Get your ass over here. This takes too long. It won't be clear later.
- [30:11]
Adam Rittenberg
These types of missions were extremely dangerous. Most of Slick's 12 man unit did not return home from Vietnam. Usually he would go out solo, but there were occasions where soldiers would be sent out with a partner. Late in his tour, after several in his unit had been killed, Slick was paired with a soldier from the Green Berets.
- [30:32]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
He claimed he would come from the mafia. Maybe it was so and the job was to go into a village to find out if they're on our side or not. Basically you can usually get an idea they don't have any guns. And we start to go in there and the old man comes walking out with holding a little kid out of a hut. He killed them both. And this guy loved to kill. Turn that out in a hurry.
- [31:02]
Adam Rittenberg
Slick was furious. He had compartmentalized all the killing he had done to that point and filed it away as simply following orders. But what he had just witnessed was something much more different and cruel.
- [31:15]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
I told him, you do that again, I'll kill you. He smiled at me. Well, hell, it wasn't the next day or something slowly moving in his village and a woman comes around the corner with a little kid and he shoots them both. And I knew what he was going to do. I immediately turned around, we're still at the edge of the jungle and I dove in there and he opened up on me, but I got away. They always treat you to circle to the left now. I'm not sure. I don't remember why? That was the deal when you're trying to get in a position to get somebody. And I knew he knew that. I circled to the right, got on top of a boulder, and here he comes, sneaking along. And he got just below my feet. I jumped down, had my jump knife. I cut his belly open. From belly to brisket.
- [32:11]
Adam Rittenberg
Slick safely returned to his own camp, where he was asked what had happened to the other soldiers.
- [32:17]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Oh, they got shot. Oh, okay. That's all. He's a son of a bitch. Kills an old man and a kid and a lady and a little kid. That ain't war. That's a butcher. They didn't have no weapons or nothing. I was pretty sure as I got out years later. Anyway, they paired me up with that bastard. They wanted me to kill him. That would have made sense to me.
- [32:43]
Kyle Bonagura
Or is it ever close to getting captured yourself?
- [32:47]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Oh, yeah. On my last hit, I made the hit successfully. This guy was colonel or general. He had an orderly. I used a knife to kill him. You can't shoot a gun in there. I ain't got that fool with him. I got to get out of there. Well, I always had it planned which way I was going to escape. In this case, these guys start coming out of tents. I got a choice. I take off with the least amount of people. They start lobbing mortar rounds at me. That's why I can't hear.
- [33:17]
Adam Rittenberg
Slick took off running down into a box canyon, which means there was only one real exit, and several enemy combatants chased after him. He was trapped and thought it was the end, but he remained in radio contact with a nearby plane. There were actually two planes in the area, and they were all reading off of the same map. Slick told one pilot what he needed to have any chance to escape.
- [33:43]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
He says, we're gonna be clearing that ridge in about two minutes. When we do, you get up and run like hell. They cleared that ridge, and the Phantom's got napalm. I don't know if you ever heard of that. That's deadly stealth. They dropped that with his machine gun, and he start gunning down anybody's not already dead. And they fly by. I'm thinking, oh, sure, they didn't get them all. And I got to run right by him to get the hell out of that canyon. And both of them went down, rolled over like this and hit him again. They weren't worried about me anymore, and I ran by them. There wasn't even one guy that shot at me. They saved my butt. And for a long time after that, whenever I Saw a pilot, he got a free beer. He saved my ass. And I figured I was dead meat.
- [34:35]
Adam Rittenberg
Slick was honorably discharged from the army in 1959, having experienced the type of combat that would remain ingrained in his memory for the rest of his life.
- [34:46]
Kyle Bonagura
How often do you think about that period of your life now?
- [34:49]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
People asked me that question. I said, I did what I was trained to do. That's all it amounts to. I did not enjoy killing. It's not like, yippee, I didn't enjoy it, but I was doing what I was trained to do. And then when I'd lose one of my men, they had tortured him or something prior to killing him, then it made it easier to kill them.
- [35:17]
Adam Rittenberg
Still, it wasn't always easy to justify his actions.
- [35:22]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
After I got out a couple years and I thought back of the guys I killed, it started dawning on me. They had wives, they had kids. And then I started feeling terrible. Terrible. I blew two ammo dumps right in the middle of the 1800 guy encampments. After I killed a commander, they estimated that I probably killed about 2,500 guys mainly on those ammo dumps. But I'd done a lot of individual stuff, too. If I'd have felt that way to begin with, I'd have never volunteered for that. 19, 20 years old. You're an idiot.
- [36:08]
Adam Rittenberg
Yet when he returned home to begin the rest of his life, Slick buried the stories of his time in Vietnam. They were secrets he would keep from those closest to him, even his wife and closest friends for over 25 years.
- [36:33]
Kyle Bonagura
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. After returning from Vietnam, Slick spent some time recovering from the general toll combat had taken on his body at Walter Reed, the famous Army Medical center near Washington, D.C. after that, he enrolled at a junior college in Southern California. Here's his son, David.
- [37:19]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
I actually have a letter that he wrote to his parents, a postcard that he wrote to him. It was kind of interesting to read that all these years later.
- [37:29]
Kyle Bonagura
Slick initially planned to spend a year in junior college, then transfer to USC to play baseball.
- [37:36]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
But he wasn't there very long and he was homesick from being away, and he finally just moved back to Woodland.
- [37:45]
Kyle Bonagura
Slick married Janet in 1962. They had three kids. Matt Jr, David and Elizabeth. I asked Slick if Elizabeth was named after Elizabeth Eckford, but it turns out Janet just liked the name. One of the few military stories Slick told his family was about his time protecting the Little Rock Dyne. They knew he was in the army, but most of the details of his service were never addressed. But Matt Jr. Was always puzzled by something.
- [38:17]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
He had a tattoo on his arm, on his shoulder with a parachuted army boots, and said this paratroopers should go to heaven because he's already been through hell. And it's weird that he would have that. He's never done anything.
- [38:30]
Kyle Bonagura
David was in his late teens, 18 or 19, when everything his father had bottled up finally came out. Oliver Stone's Vietnam War movie Platoon came out in December of 1986, but after it was released on VHS more than a year later, David suggested to his father that they watch it together.
- [38:53]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
I don't think we are too far into the movie. When he probably became the most emotional I've ever seen him. He started crying, and then he told me. I don't. I don't know if we paused the movie, but then he told me that he. That he was in Vietnam. And we probably sat and talked for hours after that. And he started telling me about what happened while he was there. Yeah, I was literally watching the movie. And then it just brought everything out in him for its time. That was an incredible movie. Very realistic, I guess, to those who had been there.
- [39:26]
Adam Rittenberg
And what was your reaction as his son, hearing what he had done or what he had been part of?
- [39:33]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
I couldn't believe it at first. I was like, this can't be true, because I'd never heard him even mention it, really. I'd never heard him say anything about being in war, being in Vietnam, or doing anything. The thing about it is, stories were very detailed and pretty much were always the same. He would talk about his friends that died while they were there, and he was very detailed with his stories. So that's kind of how you evaluate the authenticity of people's stories.
- [40:10]
Kyle Bonagura
Matt Jr. Was in college when this happened.
- [40:13]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
My brother called me and said, you got to come home. Something's wrong. Dad's been crying. I think he was 21. My brother was 18. He decided he was going to tell us, and then it all started making sense about him being over there, and he just started telling us a little bit at a time.
- [40:28]
Kyle Bonagura
Over the years, Slick would share more stories with his sons and explain that while in Vietnam, he had to play tricks on his own mind to be Able to justify the things he did.
- [40:39]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
From the very beginning. He's like, I was.
- [40:42]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Didn't know what to do.
- [40:43]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
I would have to convince myself that somebody was harming my mom and my sister to work myself into a frenzy.
- [40:51]
Kyle Bonagura
One story that really impacted Matt Jr. Was one slick didn't get into with us. It started when he had been on patrol with another man, one of his closest friends in Vietnam. Slick had a dark complexion from all his time in the sun, and it earned him the nickname Ricky because his friends thought he looked like Ricky Ricardo, the Desi Arnaz character from the show I Love Lucy. Slick and the other man encountered opposition in the jungle, and a gun battle broke out. After wounding their adversaries, they thought they were in the clear.
- [41:25]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
The other guy, his partner stood up and goes, we got him, Ricky. We got him, Ricky. And some dude wasn't dead yet. He was still alive. And he shot and killed the guy who was next to my dad, who was like his best buddy.
- [41:40]
Kyle Bonagura
This was near the end of his time in Vietnam.
- [41:43]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
My dad sort of lost it. He said. And he said, fuck it. And he sprinted in the open towards where the shots came from, not caring if he got shot and killed or not, because he was so upset. And he said the guy basically was on his last breath. And when my dad got there, I think the guy had already died. And he took the butt of his gun and he was smashing the guy's skull. And he was like, you, God, Sorry. He was like, I don't believe in you. Why would you do this to me.
- [42:26]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Make me do these things?
- [42:30]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
And he said he felt a. A calm come over him, and he heard it in her voice. And he felt the presence of God. And God telling him.
- [42:49]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
I'm sorry, my son. This is just something you have to do.
- [42:53]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
And he said, from now on, it sort of took the emotion out of everything. And he just became sort of a zombie and just went about what he had to do because he wasn't there much longer. He just did his last few jobs and just was completely brain dead and emotionally dead. It just was a zombie.
- [43:17]
Kyle Bonagura
We asked Matt Jr. If he was surprised how his dad turned out after learning what he experienced in Vietnam. This was a man who turned into such a positive role model for so many kids in the community.
- [43:30]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
He was super mellow because he had seen the worst. So nothing was worth getting worked up about.
- [43:38]
Kyle Bonagura
Our conversation with Slick lasted for hours, and the depth of his stories was startling. He even showed us his old uniform from the 101st, a direct link to a part of his life that few people ever saw. We learned later that he kept his service knife in the glove box of his car for years. The knife served as a reminder of everything he had been through. Slick stories are almost impossible to fully vet for a number of reasons. These are events that happened more than 60 years ago. And obtaining official documentation of anything from that far back would be hard to come by, let alone what were likely off book covert missions from a time when the US involvement in Vietnam was not widely known. On top of that, in 1973, there was a massive fire at the National Personnel Records center which destroyed between 16 and 18 million official military personnel files, including 80% of army personnel discharged between 1912 and in 1960. Slick's file would have been stored there. The military allows members of the general public to obtain individual Service records once 62 years have passed since they were discharged. So I went ahead and requested Slick's file, only to receive a response from the national archives in St. Louis that they were unable to locate it. But after sitting in his apartment and listening to Slick stories, neither of us felt any reason to doubt the authenticity of what this 82 year old man told us. I remember leaving Slick's apartment with Adam getting in the car and us just kind of looking at each other, stunned by everything this man had been through. Neither of us had ever been around someone who was so matter of fact about the killing they had done in their life. More than four years have passed since we interviewed Slick. And it's a conversation Adam and I have talked a lot about. We discussed it again recently. Adam, what do you remember about sitting there in Slick's apartment that day, listening to those stories?
- [45:58]
Adam Rittenberg
You know, Kyle, for me, I remember the apartment itself. And you would pass by this place on the edge of woodland before it kind of turns into the fields and never think there was someone in Inside who had the impact on American history that Slick had. It was kind of a drab looking apartment, edge of town and you know, inside is someone who was involved in the Little Rock Nine and was involved in Vietnam before it really became Vietnam and inflicted these, you know, kind of atrocities or was part of these atrocities. Other thing I remember, and I'll never forget is just his voice. You know, the tone of his voice, the pace in which he spoke, how he told stories, his. Yeah, I just never been around anyone like that. So it wasn't just the subject matter that he was talking about, but the setting. Like all the senses were like heightened in that moment. Even though we were Sitting there with, I think, masks on. At the time, during COVID I was just so engaged to what he had to say.
- [46:55]
Kyle Bonagura
Yeah, it's interesting to hear someone who lived an important moment of American history. I mean, the Little Rock Nine is something we all learn about in school and have a general awareness of. But for him to kind of take us step by step, day by day, what it was like to be on the ground that day for me, made it feel real in a way that you just can't replicate in an academic setting. There's no way to replicate a lived experience. And I just remember looking him in the eye when he's telling these stories, and you could see that he was tapping into his memory in such an authentic way that, you know, gives me chills kind of sitting here talking about today, because history doesn't always feel real like that. You know, that day, I felt connected to the Little Rock Nine in a way that probably would have been impossible in any other way. And then, you know, hearing those stories in Vietnam, thinking about what I was doing at the same age, you know, he's 18, 19 years old, jumping out of a plane, parachuting into a jungle in Vietnam. You know, I'm a senior in high school, like, writing for the school paper like a freshman in college, going to parties and. And he's actively living key moments of history, like. Like we are not the same.
- [48:13]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Right.
- [48:13]
Kyle Bonagura
These are the. The. The human experience can be so different for people at the same age.
- [48:18]
Adam Rittenberg
No doubt. And again, you know, this was early on in our reporting. We had talked with Paul about Slick and what Slick had meant to Paul's life. We had talked a bit with Matt Rocha Jr. I believe, about his dad, and kind of what to expect. There's so many fascinating things, but one that jumps out to me is just the contrast with Slick and what he had done as a really, really young man, as you just mentioned. But then who he became later, and that he became an incredible father and uncle and community member and coached all the kids in baseball and softball in the woodland area for years and years and stepped in and was so important for Paul and Tom and at a very vulnerable part in their life. And, you know, you contrast that with who he had been in Vietnam. And we all know, you know, people who experience that type of trauma, how they're often never the same, and they're never able to have that level of engagement and compassion and impact in positive ways. And, you know, I think one thing that I think we can say for sure, kind of coming out of that, in regards to Paul and Tom, is that the man that Slick became is the one who influenced and impacted them, not the person he was when he got back from Vietnam.
- [49:33]
Kyle Bonagura
No, that's absolutely right. And the other part I've thought a lot about is just the restraint he showed after Dolores went missing. This is a guy who told us he was responsible for a lot of death. Whatever the number is, it's high.
- [49:48]
Matthew J. Rocha (Slick)
Right.
- [49:48]
Kyle Bonagura
And that weighed on him. And he told us about the religious component to that.
- [49:53]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
Right.
- [49:53]
Kyle Bonagura
What this means for him, like talking about the afterlife and things like that are things that he forced himself to think about. And what he said was, you know, his fate is essentially sealed with that. Right. And so there wasn't a real moral hurdle for him to clear if he were to have, you know, exacted vengeance against Carl Wolf in a permanent way. Right. If he would have killed Carl Wolf, he didn't think that that was something that he would have ultimately been judged by. And the fact that he had done so much of that already feels like it would have made it easier for him to justify doing it again. When he was in Vietnam, he was killing people that had no idea he even existed. Right. And now here's a guy who is responsible for the disappearance of his sister, one of the most important people in his lies. And he had the opportunity to do the same thing, but chose not to. Chose to take a step back, chose to focus on what was really important, and that was, you know, stepping in and serving as a father figure for Paul and Tom and then just being around for his family, too. Right. And you could tell that when he told us the story, it was something that he really considered, but was certainly very happy that he didn't go through with. Instead of acting on that impulse, he chose to keep the promise he made to his sister to raise her sons. That decision didn't just spare a life. It gave Paul and Tom a chance at a better future. Eventually, Slick shared his military experiences with them, too, a revelation that only added to Paul's appreciation for the man who stepped in as his protector when he was just 12 years old.
- [51:48]
Adam Rittenberg
You obviously had such a great admiration for him as a kid, but when you found out about his past and what he had done in the military, how that impacted your view of him, because a lot of people who go through that can't function, period, much less as a dad to his kids, to you and to all these people, just.
- [52:08]
Paul Wolf or Matt Rocha Jr.
If it to realize it. As humans, you're capable of going through a lot of hard stuff. And still coming out on the right side of it. And that's where I feel proud of having him in my life because he helped me and knowing what he went through was more than what I went through. Like you said, it's tough to come out normal when you go in a situation like he went through net alone. What he endured on top of that, you know, in terms of taking on the family and doing all that he did, the older we did, the more respect I had for him. He was obviously the glue for not only his own family, but our family and so many other people and just an unbelievable human just in every which way.
- [52:47]
Kyle Bonagura
Slick stayed close with Paul and Tom as they moved into adulthood. But for the Rocha family, something still gnawed at them. Carl Wolf was walking free, even though to them the truth had always been clear. They pushed, they waited, and eventually the system moved. Next time on the Unforgotten. Finding Dolores Wolf the family's relentless pressure on law enforcement starts to pay off as the spotlight shifts back to Carl Wolf.
- [53:29]
Adam Rittenberg
The Unforgotten is a Free range production. Season 3 Finding Dolores Wolf is written and hosted by Kyle Bonagura and me, Adam Rittenberg. The story is edited and produced by Wes Ferguson, the executive producer at Free Range. Audio editing by Azelyn Gaddis Audio production and sound design by Austin Sisler with Eastside Studios in Austin, Texas. Special thanks to espn.
- [54:05]
Kyle Bonagura
If you're alignment in charge of keeping the lights on, Grainger understands that you go to great lengths and sometimes heights to ensure the power is always flowing. Which is why you can count on Grainger for professional grade products and next day delivery so you have everything you need to get the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.