7. Penny-Ante Thugs

Summary

---

The Unforgotten — Season 1: The Labor Day Ghost

Episode 7: Penny-Ante Thugs
Date: August 9, 2024
Host: Free Range Productions (Carol Dawson & Wes Ferguson)

---

Episode Overview

In episode 7, "Penny-Ante Thugs," the podcast explores the fallout from a corrupt District Attorney’s bribe, the collapse of justice for Shelly Watkins, and the resulting ripple effects on families and community. The hosts revisit the dismissed murder case, the federal prosecution of the DA and his associates, and the failed attempts by Shelly’s family to seek any form of closure or justice. Through firsthand accounts and intimate conversations, this episode lays bare the enduring trauma, systemic failures, and attempts at healing in the shadow of a 41-year-old mystery.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Collapse of the Murder Case

• Larry Warwick’s Devastation (00:00–02:20)

  • Larry, the investigator, shares his heartbreak over the case falling apart when District Attorney E. Ray Andrews and "middlemen" solicited a $300,000 bribe to sabotage the prosecution against Shelly’s husband, Jerry Mack Watkins.
  • “I felt like we had a good, strong case against him. And then to have the rug pulled.” (Larry Warwick, 00:55)
  • Larry visits Shelly’s grave, apologizing for failing her—not getting closure, despite usually bringing cases to resolution.

• The System’s Failure

  • “He didn’t fail her. The system failed her. But this is just one that haunted him.” (Kristi Warwick, 02:20)

The Bribery Scheme and Legal Fallout

• E. Ray Andrews’ Prosecution and Unexpected Outcomes (03:02–06:13)

  • Former DA E. Ray Andrews initially denies any wrongdoing but later pleads guilty under the Hobbs Act (federal extortion law), serving 42 months in prison.
  • The case involved not only financial bribery but allegations of Andrews demanding sexual favors from female defendants.
  • Surprisingly, Andrews later regains his law license and resumes practicing law:
    “My biggest shock was he got his law license back. And the next thing I know, he's back in town defending defendants.” (Jeff Millslagel, 06:13)

• E. Ray’s Middlemen

  • Scoob Wagner receives 18 months for cooperating; John Ward is eventually sentenced to 12 months and a day.

Revisiting E. Ray Andrews (06:13–08:49)

• The hosts personally interview the now elderly Andrews in a nursing home, who deflects responsibility and blames his “middlemen”:
  • “Well, both little outlaws.” (E. Ray Andrews, 06:45)
  • He claims he never agreed to the bribe and insinuates he was set up by others but offers little credible defense.

After the DA: Political and Legal Limbo

• Changing of the Guard (08:49–11:24)

  • After Andrews resigns, his assistant Mike Head and colleague Donna Little Bennett vie for DA; the upcoming election influences their choice not to pursue Watkins’ prosecution amid the scandal.
  • “One of the primary factors in deciding to go ahead and dismiss it... was that the bribe would become a major issue in the trial.” (Mike Head, 09:51)
  • Donna is elected and serves 16 years, but never brings charges against Jerry Mack Watkins again.
  • “Did I think he did it? Absolutely. I didn't have any questions in my mind...” (Mike Head, 12:01)

• The Unseen Cost of Corruption (12:24–13:50)

  • Narrators reflect that the greatest damage Andrews wrought was not only legal but emotional and systemic, for both the Watkins case and others under his tenure:
    “The cost of E. Ray Andrews’ crimes was literally the price of justice.” (Narrator, 12:24)

Civil Case and the Quest for Closure (13:50–17:53)

• Shelly’s Family Files Wrongful Death Lawsuit
  • With criminal charges dropped, Shelly’s mother and sister sue Jerry Mack Watkins for wrongful death.
  • Sandy Cripps, Shelly's sister, recounts the bitter mediation, forced settlement, and her attempts to ensure some financial protection for Shelly's daughters.
  • “It was the tiniest bit of closure, if you could even call it that. My mom got a monthly annuity of like a thousand dollars a month. So if you look at it like a win, that's as close as we ever got.” (Sandy Cripps, 15:29)
  • Despite the settlement, the legal document only shows a dismissal, with no admission of guilt:
    “There's nowhere does it say that he's in any way responsible.” (Larry Warwick, 17:55)
  • Sandy’s pain at the “blood money” settlement and absence of true justice is palpable.

Family Struggles, Grief, and Lasting Loss (18:37–25:24)

• Broken Family Ties

  • Sandy’s final visit with her nieces is recalled with heartbreak:
    “Ashley was totally glued onto my lap... The whole trip was terrible, but to be able to see the girls was huge.” (Sandy Cripps, 19:28)
  • She hasn’t seen them since 1995, intensifying the sense of loss and separation.

• Generational Trauma

  • Sandy’s father is described as another casualty, unable to process the injustice, ultimately drinking himself to death.

• Courtney Cripps’ Reflections (21:42–25:24)

  • As a child, Courtney (Shelly’s niece) grows up forever shaped by the murder and ensuing events:
    • “It was like two extra places at table for Ashley and Lane if they ever decided that they wanted to be there.” (Courtney Cripps, 23:24)
    • She contrasts her family’s endless mourning with her cousins’ (Shelly’s daughters) total separation and lack of knowledge about their mother:
      “They don't know who their mom was. And that is something that I, thank God, cannot comprehend.” (Courtney Cripps, 22:05)
    • She observes the painful symmetry: Her family carries the burden for both sets of children.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the System’s Failure:
  “He didn’t fail her. The system failed her. But this is just one that haunted him.”
  – Kristi Warwick (02:20)

• On E. Ray Andrews’ Corruption:
  “My biggest shock was he got his law license back. And the next thing I know, he's back in town defending defendants.”
  – Jeff Millslagel (06:13)

• On Defensive Deflection:
  “Both little outlaws.”
  – E. Ray Andrews, about his former middlemen Scoob Wagner and John Ward (06:45)

• On Lost Justice:
  “It was the tiniest bit of closure, if you could even call it that. My mom got a monthly annuity of like a thousand dollars a month. So if you look at it like a win, that's as close as we ever got.”
  – Sandy Cripps (15:29)

• On Enduring Grief:
  “It was like two extra places at table for Ashley and Lane if they ever decided that they wanted to be there... We’ve always talked about Ashley and Lane as if they’re the closest family we've ever known. And I, I know nothing about them.”
  – Courtney Cripps (23:24)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:20 — Larry Warwick’s feelings on failing to achieve closure for Shelly.
• 03:02–06:13 — Bribery scandal, Andrews’ plea and surprising return to law.
• 06:13–08:49 — Interview with E. Ray Andrews; blame-shifting and denial.
• 08:49–12:24 — New DA, election aftermath, and prosecution’s permanent collapse.
• 13:50–17:53 — Civil suit for wrongful death; mediation, settlement, and unresolved justice.
• 18:37–21:42 — Last family visit with Shelly’s daughters, impact on extended family.
• 21:42–25:24 — Courtney Cripps’ account of growing up in the shadow of Shelly’s murder.

---

Summary

"Penny-Ante Thugs" delivers a stinging indictment of small-town corruption and the persistent wounds left when justice is denied. The episode’s emotional gravity comes from the stories of those still living with unanswered questions: the sister who fought for the tiniest scrap of justice, the detective haunted by the one case he couldn’t close, and the niece who grew up in the shadow of both the loss and the silence. Through candid interviews and a relentless examination of the system’s failings, this episode reveals not only the price of a successful bribe, but the enduring, intangible cost to families and communities left behind.

Transcript

[Larry Warwick]

Larry was devastated. Devastated.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

This is Kristi Warrick.

[Larry Warwick]

When you have a case and you win and you get a conviction and you've done right about the person who lost their life, it doesn't bring them back, but it does give you some type of closure. There was no closure on this.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Kristi Warrick was the dispatcher who received the 911 call when Shelly Watkins body was discovered in the Trinity River. At the time, Christie was dating homicide investigator Larry Warwick. Larry spent nearly one year putting together evidence that seemed to link Shelley's death to her husband, Jerry Mack Watkins, only for the case to crumble when District Attorney E. Ray Andrews and his middlemen solicited a $300,000 bribe to sabotage the case against the defendant, Jerry Mag.

[Larry Warwick]

I felt like we had a good, strong case against him. And then to have the rug pulled.

[E. Ray Andrews]

Out from under you.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

That's Larry.

[E. Ray Andrews]

Oh, it was horrible.

[Larry Warwick]

It was sickening.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Christy and Larry married on September 9, 1994, less than a month after the murder trial was canceled and the indictment dismissed. And one year almost to the day after Shelly's death, one night, Christy drove Larry from their home in Athens to Corsicana, the town where Shelley had lived until she was murdered and thrown in the Trinity River.

[Larry Warwick]

That's something I will never forget as well.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

They made their way to the cemetery where Shelley was buried.

[Larry Warwick]

We went at the evening time so there wouldn't be people there. And he set out at her grave. She has a bench there. I st the car. I don't know what he discussed with her. That's between him and Shel.

I apologize to her for letting her down, not bringing this to a successful closure for her and her kids. I've closed every case, every homicide case I've ever been on. I've brought it to some kind of closure, and I couldn't with Shelley.

And again, it wasn't anything in his hands. You know, he was doing his job. And I believe he would have gotten a connection because he worked really hard. He didn't fail her. The system failed her. But this is just one that haunted him. You know, he needed to get this done and get a conviction and get justice for Shelley, just as y' all are trying to do. You know, everybody wants justice for Shelly.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

My name is Carol Dawson, and I'm Wes Ferguson.

[Larry Warwick]

You're listening to the unforgotten. Season 1 the Labor Day Ghost.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Chapter 7 Penny Anti Thugs following his arrest, District Attorney E. Ray Andrews defiantly claimed that everything of which he stood accused was false. He said he didn't do none of it. He was tired of living under a microscope and spending his days riding around because he was too embarrassed to go into his office. One and a half months later, E. Ray changed his tune.

[Jeff Millslagel]

He got with his lawyer, they cut the deal.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

This is Jeff Millslagel, the retired FBI agent who brought down E. Ray.

[Jeff Millslagel]

And the only other strange thing that I recall about this case is when he pled. He pled like at 5:00 clock at night. And I've never had that happen before. It was kind of like, keep it on the down low. Let's get him in and get him out.

[Larry Warwick]

Oh, so you're trying to avoid publicity.

[Jeff Millslagel]

I. I think the judge was not us.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

On September 29, 1994, Andrews pleaded guilty to a violation of the Hobbs Act, a federal law that prohibits extortion affecting interstate commerce. The law is often used to prosecute charges of public corruption. In addition to the other malfeasance for which E. Ray Andrews was finally being held accountable, he also stood accused of practicing leniency for sex, which meant, of course, promising to let certain female defendants off easy if they would trade the use of their bodies for his gratification. Several women had already come forward with this complaint, according to an article in the Athens Daily Review. Although he was never prosecuted for his Hobbs act violation, the court sentenced Andrews to three and a half years in federal prison.

[Jeff Millslagel]

He got 42 months. He went to Florida, as I recall, and I talked to him once in Florida. He got a cell phone. He called just to talk. It's E. Ray. Years later he called me and he said, I'm getting out. And he stopped by the office to say hello.

[Larry Warwick]

Why would he do that?

[Jeff Millslagel]

Some white collar criminals do it. I don't know why.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

As for the two middlemen who helped with E. Ray's bribery scheme, Scoob Wagner's sentence was 18 months in prison, plus a two year supervised release, thanks to a deal in which he gave his full cooperation with the Texas Rangers and the FBI. The other middleman, John Ward, at first escaped indictment, but was later sentenced to 12 months and one day in prison. But Jeff was in for one more surprise with E. Ray.

[Jeff Millslagel]

Of course, we referred it to the State Bar, thinking he would lose his license forever. We were wrong. As soon as he completed his sentence and completed his supervised release, he could apply to get his license back to make money again. And my biggest shock was he got his law license back. And the next thing I know, he's back in town defending defendants.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

We encountered E. Ray Andrews a second time ourselves. We traveled once again to the nursing home where E. Ray Andrews is living now to ask him directly about his involvement in the Watkins case and his participation in the bribery scheme that ended its prosecution.

[Larry Warwick]

What's your response to some of the allegations with Scoob and Ward?

[E. Ray Andrews]

With Scoob Wagner and John Lord?

[Sandy Cripps]

Yeah.

[E. Ray Andrews]

Well, both of little outlaws.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

They're both little outlaws.

[E. Ray Andrews]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[Larry Warwick]

What did you want to do with that money? From. From Watkins. From Jerry Watkins?

[E. Ray Andrews]

What I want to do with it?

[Sandy Cripps]

Yes, sir.

[E. Ray Andrews]

I had no intention to ever receiving any money from Jerry Watkins.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

So when Scoob came to you and made that proposition, did you say, oh, sure, I'll think about that, or no?

[E. Ray Andrews]

I. I didn't say it that way. It was. I hadn't got time to talk to you right now. You know, I just put him off to see what I could find out, you know, what he really wanted? No, I never gave him any inkling that. That I would. That I would do it. Lord.

[Larry Warwick]

I never gave them any inkling that I would do it.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Did you think that they were trying to set you up?

[E. Ray Andrews]

Well, I forget. Ah, whatever then.

[Larry Warwick]

We've heard that. That law enforcement might have been coming after you because you had the criminal defense background. You weren't one of them. I was wondering if you. If you felt that you were not guilty of that when that happened.

[E. Ray Andrews]

Well, no, I wasn't guilty.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Do you think the Watkins were behind that?

[E. Ray Andrews]

Oh, sure. That old man could buy anything he wanted.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

And so you think he was buying Scub Wagner?

[E. Ray Andrews]

Well, he could get him real cheap. He's a little thug.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

If you didn't quite follow, E. Ray is calling Scoob Wagner a penny anti thug. He says Jerry Mack Watkins. Father Carmack could get Scoob real cheap. Scoob Wagner has declined to comment. We know E. Ray was running amok as district attorney. So it's unsurprising that he would try to blame his middlemen for the crime that got him forced from office. After E. Ray Andrews resigned from office, his former assistant, Mike Head, stepped in and served as the acting district attorney. The next election to determine E. Ray's permanent replacement was coming up in just three months. Mike threw his hat in the ring. So did Mike's fellow Assistant District Attorney, Donna Little Bennett.

[Mike Head]

Donna and I wound up running against each other that fall because obviously E. Ray resigned.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Mike says the looming election factored into his and Donna's willingness to dismiss the murder indictment against Jerry Mack Watkins.

[Mike Head]

And I'm trying to think if it ever even came up if it did, I think. I think both Donna and I probably said that we would revisit that first of the year, you know, depending on who was elected. As I recall, Donna very quickly after that she resigned from the DA's office and campaigned full time for the three months or so until the election. We were very short staffed at that point. And one of the primary factors, I mean in deciding to go ahead and dismiss it for both Donna and I was that the bribe would become a major issue in the trial. And we knew that there were discussions about, well, we'll just wait until the elections over. I don't recall any real talk about what we were going to do as far as gear backup to try it or get it re indicted, although I think everyone really kind of anticipated that it would be. And I'm not sure what happened.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Mike lost the election, Donna won, she.

[Mike Head]

Was elected and I went into private practice.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Donna ended up serving the next 16 years as Henderson County District Attorney. We couldn't convince Donna to speak with us. To this day, Mike doesn't know why she never brought the evidence against Jerry Mack Watkins back before a grand jury.

[Mike Head]

It was certainly a tragedy that the case had to be dismissed for reasons that really were outside of the evidence. In the case itself. It was related more to unrelated circumstances involving E. Ray and that whole situation. I think it would have been a difficult case to win with the lawyers they had on the other side who are very skilled, very good lawyers. But I think it would have been the right thing to do to have tried it and to have put that evidence in front of a jury. I think a jury would have had some real questions about Watkins behavior. Now, would they have convicted him or not based on that evidence? I don't know, being involved in it myself. Did I think he did it? Absolutely. I didn't have any questions in my mind that, that he did it and unfortunately got away with it.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

The enormity of Eray Andrews crimes and the effects they have had on others is greater than one man's downfall. Far greater than the summary of his thefts, his chiseling scams, hot checks, money laundering, his conspiracy to defraud, his alleged sexual predation and his betrayals of public trust. It is far sharper than the skill and gamesmanship of the attorneys on either side of the Watkins case, which ultimately had little to do with its outcome. It is broader even than the scope of corruption it exposed and and the judicial system it besmirched a taint not just confined to one case, but on all the Cases that had come under Andrews auspices. The cost of Irae Andrews crimes was literally the price of justice. Whichever way that justice might have fallen towards sentencing or exoneration, the accused was now going to have to live in the fog of ambiguity. The final decision would remain unresolved. He was exiled to limbo, neither guilty nor innocent, but continuing to be under investigation. It was a price that has yet to be paid.

[Larry Warwick]

Jerry Mack Watkins was a free man. Six months after his indictment was dropped, he faced a new threat. His former mother in law and sister in law sued him on behalf of his and Shelly's two daughters for the wrongful death of his wife, Shelly Watkins. Shelley's mom and sister's lawsuit accused Jerry Mack of repeatedly striking Shelly on the head, causing her death, and of disposing her body in the Trinity River.

[Sandy Cripps]

I saw would have loved to have had the girls, especially if he was behind bars. That was my thought process.

[Larry Warwick]

This is Shelly's sister, Sandy Cripps.

[Sandy Cripps]

And then when everything fell apart and, you know, Jerry got to walk and the DA went to prison, you know, kind of burst a lot of bubbles.

[Larry Warwick]

Realizing that she wouldn't be able to gain custody of her nieces, given that Jerry Mack hadn't been convicted of a crime, Sandy pushed for Jerry Mack to establish a trust for his daughters.

[Sandy Cripps]

That was the most I could do. We did have a mediation, and we did not see Jerry because he was in one room and we were in another. It was pretty brutal. The attorney for Jerry was really rude. And of course, he wanted to attack me a lot because I was the one that was stirring the pot. I remember that attorney looking at me like I was some sort of an idiot.

[Larry Warwick]

Jerry Mack agreed to establish the trust for his daughters, but Sandy says he wanted to name his brother Ronnie as an overseer of the trust. That struck Sandy as a huge conflict of interest.

[Sandy Cripps]

I said, absolutely not. Ronnie cannot have anything to do with that trust.

[Larry Warwick]

Sandy and her mom Dusty, ended up dropping the lawsuit and settling out of court.

[Sandy Cripps]

And it was the tiniest bit of closure, if you could even call it that. My mom got a monthly annuity of like a thousand dollars a month. So if you look at it like a win, that's as close as we ever got.

[Larry Warwick]

Really? That was. That was all just a thousand a month for your mom?

[Sandy Cripps]

Yep.

[Larry Warwick]

And you didn't.

[Sandy Cripps]

And I did set up a trust fund for the girls in case down the road they ever wanted to get the hell out if they felt like, you know, things ever came to fruition.

[Larry Warwick]

Sandy doesn't remember how much money was placed in the trust. There's no public documentation.

[Sandy Cripps]

And I will tell you also that I did hate the mediation with my mom. I hated it, but I felt like it was the only ounce that we could get of somewhat of a admission because that's all the. Olaf, get this on the road here. We're gonna do this. And I hated it. One of the reasons why we didn't.

[Larry Warwick]

Stop, Sandy's husband Gary, comes to the phone and why we proceeded with the.

[Sandy Cripps]

Wrongful death settlement and all of that was because the original indictment was thrown out. And had we progressed and got a settlement and had some admission of guilt, then maybe they would re indict. Right. And that's part of our motivation, which, you know, because of the way he was let off. There's no statute of limitations on this. You know that.

[Larry Warwick]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Sandy Cripps]

Because he wasn't found not guilty. It's still open, but. Good God, do you think I ever thought 30 years later I'd be talking like this? It's ridiculous.

[Larry Warwick]

But, you know, I mean, I've looked at the case files of the. Both the criminal and the civil case, and you know, when y' all settled, the only document was that you're dropping the suit. It. There's no. Any kind of admission of, of guilt or culpability.

[Sandy Cripps]

What was on there is that we dropped the suit.

[Larry Warwick]

Yeah.

[Sandy Cripps]

Oh, my God.

[Courtney Cripps]

Wow.

[Larry Warwick]

Yeah, there's no, I mean, there's nowhere does it say that he's in, in any way responsible.

[Courtney Cripps]

Hear that?

[Sandy Cripps]

We didn't drop the suit. We settled for the kids. But the documentation on it says we dropped the suit.

[Mike Head]

Yeah.

[Larry Warwick]

And it doesn't even say that you settled.

[Sandy Cripps]

God, I'm just trying to breathe for a minute here. I just feel like there are a lot of things that slipped through my fingers that I just wasn't knowledgeable enough about. And that's probably why he's lived his lovely 30 year life.

[Larry Warwick]

Later, Sandy opened up more to Carol.

[Sandy Cripps]

The only way I could really look at that, because I always feel like it was kind of blood money in a way. But I do understand a couple of things. For us, or for me at least, it was a little bit of a. Well, they settled on it, so it kind of gave me a little tiny piece of he's guilty. You know, they didn't really fight as much. And I just always thought that was about the closest I was ever going to get to being appeased with that. Does that make sense?

[Courtney Cripps]

It does, absolutely.

[Sandy Cripps]

It's all I had to go on.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

In June 1995, Sandy visited Corsicana. She called Jerry Mack's mom, Norma, and asked to see her nieces, Shelly's daughters, Ashley and Lane.

[Sandy Cripps]

She was very, very nice, and she said, yes, of course. So we drove out to Corsicana, we went to her house, she had the girls and, you know, we stayed for a while and played. Ashley was totally glued onto my lap. And then we followed her out to the cemetery to see Shelly's grave. And Norma was very, very nice, very nice. I will always appreciate her for that part. The whole trip was terrible, but to be able to see the girls was huge. And I will never forget as we got in our cars and she was ahead of us because we were following her and Ashley had her head out the back, you know, looking out the back, the rear window, and she was just waving and watching us as they pulled away.

[Courtney Cripps]

It was so rough.

[Sandy Cripps]

It was so rough. I just felt like, you know, I just didn't want to leave her.

[Courtney Cripps]

Was that the last time you saw the girl?

[Sandy Cripps]

Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney Cripps]

Oh, my.

[Sandy Cripps]

1995.

[Courtney Cripps]

Oh, my gosh.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Shelly's family's grief, compounded by the loss of any contact at all with Shelley's two little daughters, would continue to the present day and affect and shape the lives of Shelley's two nieces throughout their childhood and as they grew into adulthood. For Shelley's kin, that devastation has never stopped, never gone away.

[Sandy Cripps]

My dad, just for the, you know, for quite a while, he just could not wrap his head around the fact that anybody would do that to Shelly. I mean, it was terrible. And then, you know, finally he came to terms with it, came to my side on it and, you know, but then after that he just drank himself to death. So it was really rough. He was another casualty of Shelly's death.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

You first heard Dr. Courtney Cripps in episode one of the Unforgotten when she described how as a six year old just starting first grade, she walked in on her mother answering the phone and being told about Shelly's body having been found. She told us how that instant has remained seared on her brain ever since.

[Courtney Cripps]

I do not envy my cousins in any way. You know, I feel absolutely terrible for them. Even though outwardly it doesn't seem as if this event has been all that earth shattering. Life just took a turn and went on. It seems with that being said, they don't know who their mom was. And that is something that I, thank God, cannot comprehend. I think every part of my being and who I am as a person is entirely related to this event.

[Sandy Cripps]

Wow.

[Courtney Cripps]

At 6 years old, you know, I had a brand new little sister. My mom, with this being not only her sister but her best friend, was absolutely devastated and like, for lack of a word, a better word, somewhat incapacitated by this, as I would be if it were my sister. I really am not exaggerating when I say that this has been a part of our everyday life for as long as I can remember. This sounds like it ambushed your childhood essentially completely. It wasn't like this thing that we could turn on and off where, okay, now we're going to talk about it. Now we won't if it was a bad day for mom or for my grandmother, my nanny and they were talking about this, well, we were privy to it. We were there, we were present, we heard all the details. Not many 6 year olds are aware of the gruesome and gory details of murder. There's not a day we don't talk about it or strangely, that we don't talk about Ashley and Lane. And we don't even know them, you know. And you know, every Christmas, mom would get a box from Corsicana that had a professional photograph in it that, that was the highlight of Christmas, was opening that box to get this new photo. And our house was just littered with photos of these two girls who are almost identical in age to my sister and I, but not my sister and I. And so friends come over and they're like, what are the photos of all these girls that are not you and your sister in this house? It was like two extra places at table for Ashley and Lane if they ever decided that they wanted to be there. It was almost like we lived with them, but they have no idea who we are. We've always talked about Ashley and Lane as if they're the closest family we've ever known. And I, I know nothing about them. In the moments that I've pursued it, it was never reciprocated in any way.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Shelly's daughters did not respond to our requests to speak with them.

[Courtney Cripps]

The thing is, justice for my aunt means complete dismantling of their world. And I don't want that for them. I really don't. I can't imagine, you know, this. The problem is that there's so much collateral damage here. But the collateral damage isn't justice coming to light. The collateral damage was done when the act was done. I can't imagine what that is going to feel like if, if they ever even accept it and believe it, they might not. You know, that's. That's the other side of things. But on the other hand, you know, if you, if you, if you look at it in terms of some sort of psychological symmetry, it is as if you and your sister and of course your mother and your father, Shelly's family.

[Sandy Cripps]

Has borne the burden not only for.

[Courtney Cripps]

Yourselves, but for Ashley and Lane. Yeah, absolutely.

[Narrator (Carol Dawson or Wes Ferguson)]

Throughout her childhood, Courtney Cripps has told me she woke every morning to a photo over her bed. It was of her Aunt Shelley, sitting in a boat, smiling, happy and radiant, wearing a red sweater, skimming along on the top of the water rather than waited beneath it, the long blonde hair that had caught the three fishermen's eyes floating from one end of the black plastic package on the Trinity River's surface, now blowing free in the wind.

[Mike Head]

Foreign.

[Larry Warwick]

Thank you for listening to the Unforgotten. Get updates, photos, case files and more when you sign up for our [e-mail] the Unforgotten is a free range production. Season 1 the Labor Day Ghost is created, written and hosted by Carol Dawson and me, Wes Ferguson. I'm the Executive producer here at Free Range. Audio recording, editing and mixing by Austin Sisler at Eastside Studios in Austin, Texas. Scored by Austin Sisler and Jamie Cummins. Our theme song, ghost, is written and performed by Corsicana's own Will Mecatron Jones. If you support our efforts to shine a new light on Shelly Watkins Cold Case, please like subscribe give us a review and tell your friends. Thanks again and see you soon.