The Unforgotten – Season 2, Episode 9: "The Unknown"
Date: December 9, 2024
Host: Charlie Scudder (Free Range Productions)
Theme: A deep dive into the lingering questions following the killing spree of Billy Chemirmir—examining systemic vulnerabilities, family trauma, and the elusive search for justice and closure.
Episode Overview
This episode, "The Unknown," concludes the investigation into the serial killings committed by Billy Chemirmir in Texas’ senior living communities. Rather than focusing solely on Chemirmir or his gruesome end, the narrative centers on the failures and challenges of the systems meant to protect the elderly, the families' struggles for answers and closure, and the broader societal obligation to safeguard vulnerable populations. The episode weaves together survivor interviews, family reflections, expert insights, and an unflinching look at the weight of unresolved questions.
“But this podcast, this story, isn’t about Billy Chemirmir, not really. It’s about the systems that he used to target his victims for a quick buck. It’s about the dozens of older adults that he killed and how there could be dozens more that we’ll never know about.” – Charlie Scudder [02:21]
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Billy Chemirmir's Death and its Aftermath
- Chemirmir Murdered in Prison: Chemirmir was killed by his cellmate in the Caulfield unit during a 2023 Texas prison lockdown ([00:01]).
- Details of the murder remain scant due to an ongoing investigation.
- Both law enforcement and Chemirmir’s own family are left with questions and limited information.
- Implications for Victims’ Families:
- Mixed reactions—some feel a sense of closure, others are angered by perceived lack of justice and the inability to have their loved one’s case seen in court.
- Some view his death as “a kind of justice from God,” others as an evasion of true justice ([02:00–02:30], [41:03]).
Notable Quote:
“Having him no longer breathing on the face of the earth, I can't say that it has given me peace. But I don't think about him...I definitely feel lighter... just knowing that he is no longer breathing.”
—Shannon Dion [40:06–40:41]
2. Senior Living, Independence, and Security
- Residents Share Their Perspectives:
- Independence and community are often priorities for residents choosing such communities—even more than security.
- Social engagement and autonomy actually increase for some, shattering common stereotypes about the “finality” of moving to senior care ([03:44–06:58]).
- Decisions are often made to relieve family anxiety and provide a support network.
Notable Quotes:
“There’s life, and they need to— they need to explore it and enjoy it… If you sit at home and watch TV all day and feel sorry for yourself, that’s no way to live.”
—Susie [07:17]
“What people need to understand is this is a small town. I mean, it really is... it doesn’t bother you, because you play cards with the people over here or mahjong with somebody over there.”
—Linda [04:27]
- Balancing Autonomy and Safety:
- Host Charlie Scudder discusses the tension between safeguarding elders and infringing on their independence ([07:49–10:03]).
- Geriatrician Michael Wasserman reframes senior living:
“When I was 17, I went off to college… Why can’t we look at a nursing home the same way? And if a nursing home functions that same way, why not enjoy it the same way I enjoyed college?”
—Dr. Michael Wasserman [10:03]
3. Complexities and Dilemmas of Elder Care
- Where Do You Want to Age?
- Elders, family members, and professionals express uncertainty: everyone wants dignity, safety, and not to become a “burden” ([12:16–16:31]).
- Some fear institutional living; others worry about being alone at home.
- A major concern is financial: better options often come at much higher cost.
Notable Quote:
“The only priority for me right now is—I don't want to be a burden to my daughters... I don't want them to feel like they have to take care of me. And I certainly, to dear Lord God, don’t want them ever to have to worry about me being in danger.”
—Victim’s daughter [13:18]
- Security Shortcomings:
- Families learned, often too late, to ask about background checks, security cameras, and staffing practices ([16:31–17:49]).
4. The Scale of Chemirmir’s Crimes: Counting the Unknown
- Number of Victims Uncertain:
- Chemirmir was charged with 22 murders and 2 attempted murders, but most charges were dismissed after conviction, leaving just two recognized by the state ([21:12–21:50]).
- The process of identifying other potential victims is complex: paperwork inconsistencies, unreported thefts, and procedural obstacles block concrete answers.
- Some deaths remain "natural" or "undetermined" officially, despite family and circumstantial evidence suggesting otherwise.
Notable Quotes:
“I don't think it's—that we're missing it. I think we don’t have any evidence to support any more death investigations that he’s responsible for… But is he responsible for more, do I believe? Absolutely. I believe he is, yeah.”
—Det. Paul Martinez [24:56]
5. Systemic Barriers to Justice, Transparency, and Change
- Obfuscation and Institutional Gaps:
- Senior communities’ protocols sometimes hid deaths from official records; e.g., policies to always transport unresponsive residents to hospitals, shifting the place-of-death away from the facility ([26:14]).
- Families and investigators frequently encountered dead-ends when seeking records, autopsy reports, or even basic answers from authorities.
- Media attention and accountability remain deeply lacking, per many families.
“They have done nothing in a lot of cases to upgrade the security to protect those people...they’re not going to do any more than is expected of them because it’s going to cost them money, and it’s all about making money.”
—Cheryl Pangburn [43:09]
- Pain of Incomplete Resolution:
- Many families are haunted by unanswered questions and dismissed charges ([36:39–38:02]).
- Exhumations, lost jewelry, and the ongoing sense of being sidelined by the justice system compound their trauma ([33:06], [36:39]).
6. The Ongoing Toll on Families
- Layers of Grief and Trauma:
- Grief lingers and resurfaces unpredictably—with triggers as small as an unexpected knock on the door by maintenance ([35:41]).
- Exhumations and lack of justice feel like renewed wounds.
- New life events, like new grandchildren or marriages, are forever shadowed by absence ([34:23–35:55]).
- Despite Chemirmir’s death, a sense of injustice and ageism persists among the survivors.
Notable Quotes:
“It never occurred to me that my mom would never see a day in court… It just made my blood boil. But that and the way they dismissed the cases, and it’s like they dismissed our moms.”
—Karen Harris [37:32–38:02]
Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)
- [00:01]: Opening recounts Chemirmir’s prison death and secrecy attendant to the investigation.
- [05:38]: Discussion around the paradox of senior care—between security and freedom.
- [10:03]: Dr. Wasserman compares well-functioning retirement living to college communal life.
- [13:18]: Victim’s daughter poignantly articulates the wish not to be a burden, nor to have her children worry.
- [21:12–24:56]: Methodological challenges in uncovering the true scale of Chemirmir’s crimes, Detective testimonies.
- [33:06]: Families recount trauma of exhuming loved ones for posthumous investigations.
- [36:39]: Frustration at dropped charges, perceived ageism and disregard by legal system.
- [41:03]: Cheryl Pangburn describes being angry at Chemirmir’s death, feeling it deprived her of justice.
- [43:09]: Critique of the elder care industry’s reluctance to enact change absent regulation or financial incentive.
Conclusion
"The Unknown" brings the painful ambiguity at the heart of the Chemirmir case into sharp focus. The episode underscores how systemic blindspots—ranging from elder care industry practices, to law enforcement limitations, to societal ageism—perpetuate trauma and allow justice, and even basic dignity for victims, to slip through the cracks.
Rather than providing easy answers, the episode leaves listeners with the unsettling knowledge that many victims may remain unnamed and uncounted, that families’ wounds are often unrecognized, and that the fight for meaningful protections for the elderly is far from over.
“Many, many other victims could remain unknown, unidentified but not forgotten.” —Charlie Scudder [43:55]
Episode Key Segments & Timestamps
- [00:01] – Chemirmir’s prison death & initial reactions
- [03:44] – Residents’ reflections on moving to senior living
- [07:49] – The paradox of autonomy versus surveillance in elder care
- [10:03] – Reframing senior living with Dr. Michael Wasserman
- [12:16] – Where do you want to age? (families, advocates, experts respond)
- [21:12] – How many victims? The challenge of counting the unknown
- [25:12] – Systemic barriers to investigation
- [33:06] – The trauma of exhumations and lingering grief
- [36:39] – Legal frustrations; the impact of dismissed charges
- [41:03] – Varied responses to Chemirmir’s death and the state of justice
- [43:09] – Critique of the elder care industry and push for reform
Tone:
Respectful, direct, and empathetic. The voices of survivors, families, and advocates are centered—in their own words—balancing sorrow, anger, and hope for change.
For further context or previous episodes, listeners are encouraged to begin with the series’ first chapters, which lay the groundwork for this complex, painful, and important tale.