Loading summary
Transcript60 lines
- [00:00]
Jake Felt
Foreign.
- [00:01]
Narrator/Host
I'm Carol Dawson.
- [00:02]
Wes Ferguson
And I'm Wes Ferguson. You're listening to a special bonus episode of the Unforgotten. This is pretty random, but we're gonna start with a recent clip from this sports talk show called Pardon My Take.
- [00:13]
Jake Felt
Okay?
- [00:14]
Wes Ferguson
We now welcome on a very, very, very special guest. It is a future hall of Famer, super bowl champ. The camera cuts to Matthew Stafford, the star quarterback of the Los Angeles Rams. First of all, thank you for joining us.
- [00:25]
Matthew Stafford
Of course. Thank you guys for having me on.
- [00:27]
Wes Ferguson
These days, Matthew Stafford is one of the best passers in the NFL. When he in Highland park, an old money enclave in Dallas, he played baseball with this other kid, a kid named Jake. Did you have the best arm on your team?
- [00:40]
Matthew Stafford
No.
- [00:41]
Jake Felt
Oh, no. Who? Who did?
- [00:43]
Wes Ferguson
That's crazy.
- [00:43]
Matthew Stafford
Jake Felt. No. Shout out, Jake.
- [00:46]
Wes Ferguson
Jake Felt.
- [00:47]
Matthew Stafford
Jake Felt. I'll tell you what. He was eighth grade, you know, this guy was shaving in the eighth grade. He was an unbelievable stud. We'd go to tournaments. He was winning mvp, hitting bombs.
- [00:58]
Jake Felt
Hell yes.
- [00:59]
Matthew Stafford
Launching it.
- [01:00]
Wes Ferguson
That Matt Safford and Jake.
- [01:01]
Matthew Stafford
Jake Felt.
- [01:02]
Wes Ferguson
Yes. This is the same Jake Felt from our previous chapter. He's been married to Shelley and Jerry Mack Watkins daughter Ashley for 10 years. They're now in the process of a divorce. What we didn't tell you because it didn't really seem relevant is that Jake and his famous teammate led their high school football team, the Highland Park Scotts, to a 59 to nothing blowout victory in the 2005 state championship.
- [01:26]
Matthew Stafford
Fun fact about Jake Felt. Five touchdowns in the state championship game.
- [01:30]
Wes Ferguson
Texas high school record W. Jake Felt legend.
- [01:33]
Matthew Stafford
Jake Felt legend.
- [01:34]
Wes Ferguson
So this was pretty cool. But I have to admit, when I first read that Jake was from Highland Park, I learned about his business and his friendship with an NFL quarterback. I just assumed he was another rich guy from a rich family, probably a trust funder. Carol found out that wasn't the case at all after our interview for chapter nine, she ended up calling Jake back. They talked about his upbringing, sure, but they ended up going a lot deeper.
- [02:00]
Interviewer/Host
Most Texans, when they hear the neighborhood Highland Park, Dallas mentioned, they make certain assumptions about the people who come from there because it is such a wealthy area and a wealthy neighborhood. And the same is true for university parks in Dallas, of course. And since that's where you have come from, I wondered if you would share a little bit about your roots and early beginnings there.
- [02:28]
Jake Felt
Yeah, I mean, first I want to say, you know, Highland park, it has a certain reputation. Some probably true, some false. But I've always felt very blessed to be from Highland Park. It's almost like a small town within a big city. People have lived there for generations. Even though it is clearly a place of privilege, for the most part, it is just really good people that work really, really hard.
- [02:58]
Narrator/Host
Although in some respects, he grew up surrounded by luxury, Jake's childhood home fell far short of that category.
- [03:06]
Jake Felt
By no means were we poor, but I would consider us middle class. Money was an issue at times. Grew up in a little duplex. Two bedrooms, one bathroom. We didn't have cable tv, we didn't have a computer. And, you know, so all these things that were just part of these other kids everyday lives, you know, were just completely foreign to me.
- [03:29]
Narrator/Host
Another factor of his early life was his mother's illness.
- [03:32]
Jake Felt
My dad was actually in training camp with the 85. Bears got cut, and I believe that he found out that my mom had liver cancer the next day. You know, they were, golly, 21, 22 years old, and it was very serious. I kind of grew up for the first 10 years of my life watching my mom battle. And not only my mother, but, you know, as an adult now, in hindsight, my dad fighting, you know, along her side and try to provide for his family and a kid and his wife that's going through this, you know, horrible disease that I'm sure they were some days quite confident that it was gonna, it was gonna take her life. I knew from a, from a very young age that nobody was gonna give me anything. I knew that I was gonna have to work really hard and if I was gonna be successful at anything in life, that I was gonna have to outwork the guy next to me and do things the right way. The most important lesson I learned too, is that even through all of that hard work, it doesn't mean that you're still not gonna fail. And I think that I, I understood failure and that failure was gonna be a part of life. I think I've learned and understood that at a very young age, and that's okay. And in fact, it essentially builds the character in to you eventually, you know, the man you're going to end up becoming.
- [05:10]
Interviewer/Host
You know, that's a huge contrast to the way that your future wife grew up. She grew up in a small town rather than a big city. She grew up in a pretty tight community, but she grew up with a level of affluence that was completely in contrast to the economic background you had come from.
- [05:35]
Wes Ferguson
We wondered if Jake's modest background was the reason Jerry, Mack and Kay were So cold to him. When he and Ashley started dating, I.
- [05:42]
Jake Felt
Knew that it wasn't that they didn't like me for a reason, because, like, we hadn't been around each other at all. I mean, to the extent of, like, there's nothing I could have said. I couldn't have put off some kind of Persona that they would have rubbed in the wrong way. Like, we just hadn't even really been around each other. And the times we have, we haven't really talked. And they're usually in bigger groups. So it's not like, you know, the attention's on me or how Ashley and I interact. I mean, that's not really. That hasn't really been revealed or exposed to at any level yet. So that was one of the things that was just kind of puzzling to me is they don't even know me. And if they don't like me, okay, I can see how they can maybe be kind of standoffish with me. But why so aggressively with Ashley? To the point that it's, I mean, apparent to anyone that somewhat paying attention and that was very strange.
- [06:43]
Interviewer/Host
What would they do?
- [06:46]
Jake Felt
Not talk to you? Not really. I mean, not interested in anything you have to say. Nothing. And it was actually more so at the time. It was much more so k than it was Jerry at the time. Really? Yeah, Jerry. I mean, like, if I made an effort to start a conversation, ask him about, I don't know, the pipeline business or something, I mean, he, you know, he talks to you. He didn't really seem that interested, but, you know, he'd respond. Kay would just. It was like you'd walk in a room and he wouldn't even look at you. Kind of like, huh.
- [07:29]
Interviewer/Host
And that was. And that was true for you and Ashley both.
- [07:34]
Jake Felt
It was. It was true definitely for me to that extent, you know, but it was definitely true for Ashley because we talked about it. I mean, it was. She was hurt. I mean, it's something that truly bothered her. And Ashley's one of those types that when she never really expressed any kind of emotion of anger, but, I mean, she was hurt. She had her feelings hurt, she was sad. And, you know, she. She's constantly kind of seeking their approval. And it was. I think that's. That's. That's what made me upset at the time. You know, I was kind of a. You know, looking back, I was probably just kind of an arrogant, cocky kid out of college. So I was like, whatever. But the fact that it made herself said. I remember it was. It made me mad. But Again, like I said, you know, not that long goes by and it's like, then all of a sudden, they love me. This is, you know, the greatest thing. And so it literally, it was like snap of a finger. Things change. I cannot like really point out what it was or why exactly did anything change, but it did.
- [08:52]
Interviewer/Host
And did their attitude toward Ashley change at that moment also? Of course, it went from utterly cold to utterly warm to both of you.
- [09:02]
Jake Felt
So it this way, it was odd enough that, like, when things were good, you know, few years later and after we got married, I mean, it's something that I've probably jokingly brought up a time or two and, you know, everybody just kind of blast off. It was like, yeah, y'. All. Y' all weren't all warm and fuzzy for the first, you know, however many months I was in the picture. Yeah.
- [09:23]
Interviewer/Host
And for them to freeze her out that way is what I find, you know, really surprising. It's. It's one thing to be a little cautious towards some who has attracted the heart of your daughter. You know, wanting to make sure that that person was okay.
- [09:44]
Jake Felt
That's.
- [09:45]
Interviewer/Host
That would be a customary parental reaction. Certainly as a parent, I can say it's been my reaction to partners that my children have fallen for. And I certainly know that it was my own parents reaction. But in, in Ashley's case, that they would chill her out is so strange to me because it also sounds like the same kind of behavior that you have told us that you saw Jerry exemplifying toward Kay when he was mad at her during that period of sort of pretending she didn't exist.
- [10:30]
Jake Felt
There's no question that there is a strategic and aggressive attempt to implement control. And not only implement control, but in such a way that you are going to be able to maintain. And when I say that, you got to think of, okay, what does maintain mean? That means longevity. That means you are able to keep and stay in power over another person, which in this sense is family, a child. And so what does that take? Well, if you really think about it from a psychological level, it almost requires some type of a. Of enabling them in order to maintain some of that control and not allowing them to evolve and keeping some. And maintaining some kind of power, control over them as if they are children in some aspect of their life, even into adulthood. It's a very twisted and just dysfunctional and kind of dark reality of something that I thought, you know, just noticed and transpired. And I don't know if I was really able to with any kind of intellect Kind of sort it out and understand what was going on initially. But as time went on, it became very clear that there was an absolute, almost it seemed like it was a necessity that they maintain a certain level of control over Ashley.
- [11:59]
Interviewer/Host
And do you think that by denying their approval to her, knowing how much she wanted their approval.
- [12:06]
Jake Felt
Oh, 100.
- [12:08]
Interviewer/Host
Do you think that had anything to do with her mother, with the fact that Shelly was her mother?
- [12:16]
Jake Felt
You know, I have. I have several feelings towards that. Ashley is definitely treated much differently than.
- [12:27]
Narrator/Host
Lang Lane is the younger daughter of Shelley and Jerry Mack Watkins. She and her sister did not respond to our requests for an interview.
- [12:36]
Jake Felt
But I've always wondered, you know, Ashley is a spitting image of Shelly. It's just uncanny, the resemblances of the two. And I've been told that they share a very similar personality. I think that they're both gonna express their mind. They're, you know, they're gonna say what's on. On their mind. And as I said, one of the things that Jerry said to me that I always. That always struck me as well. It was at the time, it was confusing. It later became concerning and just a whole bunch bundle of emotions. When I asked if he would approve of me marrying Ashley. And we had a good conversation. And at some point, kind of towards the end of conversation, he expressed that, yeah, you know, she's. She's the best. But, you know, I always worry about her because she just really does remind me of her mother. And I just. I. I didn't know what that meant. I still don't know what that means. Because Ashley's amazing and she got it from somewhere and she's like her mother. Like, I don't know why that would be something that. What's concerning to you, especially if it was a woman you married and had two children with and claimed you love. That's just a odd thing to say. So because of things like that, have I wondered, okay, you know, is that why. But I still come back to the fact that Ashley's very loyal and she loves family. And I think without kind of reaching too far and analyzing all the different scenarios in a very dysfunctional environment that has kind of expanded into other dysfunctions over time for a variety of reasons. If you just come down and look at the fundamentals of who Ashley is, it's interesting because they're the hardest on her. Disapprove, it seems more of what she does. They tend to be disinterested and ignore her more than Lane. But at the same time, it's very apparent that they depend on her to keep everything together. You know, it's like we lean on you to be strong, but we treat you as if you're weak. That's something that I didn't. I didn't think of it in that aspect for the longest time. And kind of towards the end, especially when we had the boys and it was like, wow, it was so confusing to me how they could kind of step on her and just kind of walk all over as if she was weak. But then I would actually watch her be the one to hold everything together. And I was like, those don't coincide with each other. But in this situation, they somehow do. And I think the only thing that I can come to is they know that no matter what, Ashley's still going to fight for them. They may not do it for her, but she's going to do it for them. That's just always been taken advantage of.
- [15:52]
Narrator/Host
This connects to one more thing we learned in the course of our researches. One more irony to do with Shelly Watkins death. It turns out to be the lasting result of E. Ray Andrews greed, followed by law enforcement's decision to sacrifice the pursuit of justice and instead expose his corruption. And the toll that decision has taken on the lives of two little girls. One was Shelley's niece, the daughter of her sister Sandy. The other was Ashley. They were very close in age when Shelley died. They still are. One little girl lived with constant daily conversations about her Aunt Shelley filling her home, her two cousins. Photographs were everywhere throughout its rooms, but their actual faces and voices remained unknown. You've already heard Dr. Courtney Cripps speak in chapter two, and again in chapter seven, about the ways in which this trauma shaped her future. The other little girl, Ashley Watkins, could not even safely bring up the subject of her mother in her own home. And yet the impact of Shelley's unresolved murder on both these children, now fully grown women, has turned out to be surprisingly similar. Another example of psychological symmetry. At least that's the observation of someone who has known Ashley well for a long time.
- [17:23]
Jake Felt
I mean, Lane was just a baby when all this stuff happened. So, I mean, Ashley has even kind of opened up to me about protecting Lane from the environment or the atmosphere that Ashley was aware that it existed. And because of the kind of Lane's adolescence, she felt that she could protect her from that. And in some ways, I think she did. I think Lane has been shielded by Ashley. She felt it as a responsibility to protect her little sister from things that no child should ever be exposed to, much less Feel of responsibility to protect people should have been doing that for her.
- [18:05]
Interviewer/Host
It is unbelievably ironic to me now that I hear you saying this and describing this. What mirror images of dynamic that both Courtney and Ashley have had to shoulder in terms of a sense of responsibility towards their families directly tied to Shelly Watkins death. That. That blows me away.
- [18:31]
Jake Felt
I'm sure that any child that goes through something like that is going to have a significant impact. Now. Ashley was essentially put in a situation to where she lost her mother, but then was basically woke up and it was like, we're not going to talk about it. We're going to act like it's not going to happen. We're not going to. We're not. It's just. It just leaves these questions and these. You're just yearning for all of these details about this, your mom, this woman you love, this woman that looks just like you and you want to know more about her, and you only become more curious over time. But you were never given the ability to, you know, mourn that loss and. And have someone talk to you about that loss and what that person was like and the impact that person had on your life and how it was going to impact your life moving forward and how to work through it and deal with it. And it's okay to be sad. This is part of. None of those things happened. For Ashley, the most dysfunctional part about it is she is defending her family with everything she has about something they won't even talk to her about. I mean, just try to fathom that. And it's something that just weighs so deeply on your heart and something that you were struggling with as much as anyone, but no one's willing to talk to you about it and then kind of expecting you to kind of hold things together at the same time. I mean, who do you turn to at that point? Because it was like, I'm just forced to be linked to all of this dysfunction and defend it. And it becomes so part of my life that it just weighs on me more and more over time and more confusing. And it's just. I can't imagine having to bear the cost of that.
- [20:15]
Wes Ferguson
We also wanted to hear about Jake's happier memories with Ashley. Here's a question from our first interview. What did you love about Ashley?
- [20:22]
Jake Felt
Oh, man, it was very obvious to me how much we both loved being around each other, which created a certain level of comfort that allowed us to just talk about things.
- [20:42]
And not even.
- [20:43]
Necessarily in depth, you know, conversation about things like, you know, Ashley's mom or anything else, but just what we love to do, what we think about, what we feel about each other, what we love about each other. And I just think there was a certain level of comfort that we had that we had never experienced with someone else. I had never been around somebody that I truly had fun with just because of their presence. And I think we both felt that way. And I also loved how she loved me at first. I could tell that she really loved me, and I know that she felt the same way. We would both have a desire to listen to the other about just the littlest things because we actually cared what the other person thought. And we're intrigued at levels that I just wasn't used to having in a conversation with somebody else. But it was looking back, it was just because of how much I cared about that person. And I think when you take that and put that at the very foundation of just kind of a relationship, it kind of transpires into everything that you do.
- [21:59]
Wes Ferguson
Do you have, like, a favorite memory of you two together?
- [22:04]
Jake Felt
I have several. Really? I think this is gonna be kind of a boring favorite memory, but I think some of my favorite memories are coming back after a really long week of work when I was working out of town and getting back and seeing Ashley and literally, like, putting our phones away and because we didn't even. We. We didn't want them and just sitting there and cooking and watching movies and just spending every second, every day with each other and drinking wine at night and just being with each other with no care in the world about doing anything other than exactly that. I think that's probably one of my best memories. And I know it sounds. It's kind of like. Well, that doesn't sound like much of a memory, but it kind of was.
- [23:00]
Wes Ferguson
People that know her, her friends, the people that really love her, like, how would they describe her?
- [23:06]
Jake Felt
Naturally? She's a very loving person. I think Ashley loves doing things for people. I think that brings her a lot of satisfaction. I do. And Ashley's Ashley is fun. I mean, Ashley is so much fun. She is not judgmental whatsoever. And I think that she kind of approaches all interactions with people the same. And that's zero expectations or prejudgments on. On that individual person or what that interaction should be like or is going to be like. I think she just goes into it with a good intent. Another thing that about Ashley that I like, I love about her, which she definitely doesn't realize because of how maybe sometimes I react to, but she'll say things sometimes and I'm like, why did you just say that? Like, not a filter. But it's so innocent and cute at the same time that it's almost. It's funny and it is innocent and cute. That's something I've always loved about Ashley is if she does get comfortable, she's hilarious.
- [24:28]
Wes Ferguson
The Unforgotten is a Free Range production. Season one, the Labor Day Ghost is created, written and hosted by Carol Dawson and me, Wes Ferguson. I'm the executive producer here at Free Range. Theme song by Will Mechatron Jones See photos, dig into case files and get updates on Shelly Watkins case when you sign up for our newsletter@unforgottenpod.com thanks for listening. We'll be back soon.