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- [00:00]
A
Hey, everyone, it's Adam Rittenberg and Kyle Bonagara, co host of the Unforgotten Season three, Finding Dolores Wolf. We're here to look back at episode three, this Way to the Murderer's House, which. Which dropped earlier this week. And Kyle, this is an episode that both of us were looking forward to having out in the open, just because of all the details. And, you know, I think. I think what, you know, the way we start the episode, let's kind of begin there. Because you and I were actually in woodland together back in March, we felt the need to kind of retrace some of the important parts of the story. And we were fortunate enough that a guy by the name of Darrell Ersman, who was a neighbor and a friend of the Wolf family, specifically the Wolf children, was in the area and willing to show us around. And so, you know, we met Darryl back in March and went around town. And the most significant site we visited was the house on Hillcrest Drive where Dolores Wolf was last seen on the night of July 31, 1979. You know, Darryl had made contact with the current owner of the house, Joel Burton, who was nice enough to let us onto the property and inside the house, which was the first time you and I had actually been inside the house. It was the first time Darryl had been inside since 1979, which is pretty amazing because he was essentially the fifth wolf sibling, was always around. So when you think about just that experience of being together, being with Darryl, being in the house, seeing everything and kind of experiencing that with him, what kind of jumps out for you?
- [01:43]
B
It was a really interesting experience because we started reporting the story back in 2020, has spent a lot of time on it many years at this point, rehashing all the details, and to be there inside the know where the family lived and where Dolores was last seen, it was a little bit surreal, right? You kind of build something up to. To look like whatever it is inside your head. So to be in there, to walk from from hall to hall to bedroom to bedroom was a really surreal experience. And there's been some renovations done, so the layout wasn't exactly the same, but I felt like we had a really good sense of what it probably felt like to be there back in 1979. Obviously, a long time has passed since then, but it was no longer a house in the abstract. It was a real place that we had a great fortune to visit. Big thanks to both Joel and Daryl for their parts in making that happen. It was a really interesting day. And moving on from the house and experiencing all of Woodland as well.
- [02:40]
A
Right. And even driving with Darryl along Hillcrest Drive, and he's pointing out all the locations where law enforcement folks lived back then. And you and I kind of being shocked that the house was surrounded by the guy who ran for sheriff and a CHP officer and others, that possibly this horrible crime took place, you know, within yards to the residences of other law enforcement. This episode, episode three is very much about Woodland and the things that happen in Woodland, especially in the immediate aftermath of Dolores disappearance. And we were able to dive into what Dolores relatives, especially a group of cousins. They called themselves the Foot Soldiers. You've heard from them quite a bit already in this podcast series. Tony Rocha, Debbie Baker, namely, and some others as well, who were involved. And what they did to Carl Wolf as the official investigation was taking place, moving kind of slowly as it does sometimes, those cousins and that family are. Were not willing to sit idly and just let this thing play out. And as we explore in the episode, there were some meetings, there were some potential violent actions that were discussed, but ultimately not taken. Although I would argue, Kyle, that some of the things that Dolores family did to Carl Wolf or just went right up to that line of physical violence. And this is certainly something that we wanted to feature in this project and. And this episode. We certainly did.
- [04:20]
B
Yeah. There's a lot that stands out from all of the antics that went on. I mean, a couple that come to mind right away. The name of the episode is this Way to the Murderer's House, and that's a nod to the signs around town. So there was this long stretch of road leading towards the Wolf home, and it was one sign after the next, kind of laying out this way to the murderous house. So if you were driving towards the house, the message would slowly build. Right. I mean, painting on his garage door, throwing animal carcasses on his property, all that stuff is just, you know, it's. It's kind of crazy to think about. Now, of course, the. The urine story is. Is insane and disgusting and, And. And really colorful. And just in. In terms of understanding the types of things they were willing to do to. To drive him crazy, to drive Carl Wolf crazy, to make him feel uncomfortable, unsafe. And eventually he did leave town as a result, certainly in part because of how he was made to feel like a prisoner in his own home.
- [05:24]
A
Yeah. I mean, can you imagine being in that situation where you're still a free person technically, but at any moment, there could be something showing up on your front porch or a bumper sticker put on your car or a disgusting jar of 13 year old urine thrown through your, your window and crashing onto the floor. And then, you know, essentially living in fear. I mean, Tony Rocha told us that they chased him around town, that there was an armed confrontation between Tony Rocha and Carl Wolf, which obviously involved another cousin, Mary Thomas. So it was just constant tension and probably fear that Carl Wolf was living in at that time, as these cousins just were relentless in their harassment of him.
- [06:16]
B
Yeah, and sometimes I think about, like, he had to have known that people weren't just going to roll over. Right. This was a really intense family. They weren't going to let him, like be warm and comfortable in woodland after Dolores went missing. Like, this feels so predictable that they were not just going to just let it go. Right. And they didn't, they didn't let it go immediately. They didn't let it go in the months that followed. It was nine months had passed before they went ahead and tried the ruse where they called the house and tried to get him to lead them to the body. And then it was 40 more years and they still hadn't let it go. So this was, you know, this, this story is very much a true crime story, but we've said it before, like it's a story about a family. The familial bonds between the people that we've talked to are very rare and I think maybe unlike anything else I've ever come across in my life. Just like the lengths that they were willing to go to to protect and defend their family members is really admirable, no doubt.
- [07:11]
A
And I think it goes back to things we've discussed in some of the earlier episodes of the brazenness to come after a family member who was part of this group, given who these people were, and maybe Carl Wolf didn't fully understand that until the aftermath of the disappearance. And certainly the strongest link to that family or the one that you and I were most interested in in this podcast is Dolores brother Matthew Slick Rocha. We get to it a little bit at the end of the episode. What would happen to Paul Wolfe and Tom Wolfe, the two youngest children of Carl and Dolores? And Slick's role in this whole situation as the person, as you'll find out very much in episode four, who was capable of doing whatever he wanted to to Carl Wolfe. And as we, as we look ahead to episode four, Uncle Slick, which will be out next week. Kyle, just quickly, what's something that our listeners certainly will want to tune in for?
- [08:11]
B
Well, here's A guy who happened to be on the ground in Little Rock, Arkansas, during the desegregation of schools. He was on the ground with the Little Rock Nine. He was also a covert operator in Vietnam before the war had broken out. He did acts that haunted him for years. He goes into those in great detail with us. It's really moving. It's really emotional. He really bears his soul in a way. He experienced a lot of trauma at a young age and then came back, and then his sister goes missing, you know, two decades later. So it's a lot that one person has to deal with. And he was really open with us. And I'm excited to be able to share his story next week because like Paul said at the end, he's really the glue that held his family together, you know, and Paul's family together, certainly after Dolores went missing.
- [08:57]
A
Yeah, no doubt. This is an episode you certainly will not want to miss if you're a fan of this podcast, which we know you are, but certainly if you're someone who is into American history, because Matthew Rocha has a place in American history that we found out is quite extraordinary. So we, again, appreciate all of your support. Continue to follow us on social media. We have posts going up pretty much every day during the run of this podcast. And we'll be back next week to go over episode four, Uncle Slick. And look ahead to episode five. For now, it's Adam and Kyle. Bye for now. We'll see you next week.