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- [00:00]
A
Hey, I'm Wes Ferguson, executive producer of the Unforgotten. Every season of the Unforgotten is a deep dive into an unresolved case, like a murder or a lot of murders or some miscarriage of justice. These are stories that matter to us, and with your support, we shine a light on them. Here's a quick sneak peek at season one, the Labor Day Ghost. Just in case you missed it. This is the story of a young mom named Shelly Salter Watkins. Her mysterious death in Corsicana, Texas, and why the quest to to deliver justice for Shelly has gone so horribly wrong for so long.
- [00:37]
B
She does not go away. She haunts all of the people involved.
- [00:42]
C
They regard it as a cold case.
- [00:44]
B
But in fact, it's still hot.
- [00:47]
D
They do intimidate me, for sure. Don't ruffle too many feathers. You need to be careful there. But also, 30 years later, I'm getting fricking tired now of, oh, no, we're still hoping and praying that we get some sort of closure. Don't we want to find out who killed Shelley?
- [01:10]
A
This is the Unforgotten. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Wes Ferguson, executive producer of the Unforgotten. Every season of the Unforgotten is a deep dive into an unresolved case, like a murder or a lot of murders or some miscarriage of justice. These are stories that matter to us, and with your support, we shine a light on them. Here's a sneak peek at season two, unnatural Causes. Just in case you missed it, think.
- [01:40]
E
About a loved one you've lost, maybe a grandmother or your father or a beloved aunt. You believe the end was peaceful and painless. You've planned the funeral, made sure the estate was settled. You've moved belongings into storage or sold them or said final goodbyes on the curb. Now imagine you get a call. As much as two years later, police want you to come to the station. They say what you were told about the death was wrong. They want to add your loved one's name to a list of murder victims. That's the terrible reality that at least two dozen families are facing today. My name is Charlie Scudder. I'm a journalist who's been covering this case for five years. Together, we'll do what the police, medical examiners, senior living facilities, and more either failed or refused to do. String together evidence that points to systemic flaws in how we care for our older loved ones. You'll hear about a man who used the cracks in that system to become the worst serial killer in Dallas. History. This is Unnatural Causes, season two of the Unforgotten. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:50]
B
Hey, everyone, it's Adam Rittenberg and Kyle Bonagara, co hosts of the Unforgotten season three, Finding Dolores Wolf. And today we're going to discuss our penultimate episode. I think I got that term right, Kyle. Episode eight, making Sense of it all, our second to last episode of the podcast. Again, really appreciate all of your support. Our numbers have been incredible here over the last few weeks. And, you know, again, if you ever want to reach out to us on social media or have questions about the podcast or how we put it together, please don't hesitate to do so. So, Kyle, you know, in episode seven, you know, we got a resolution and Dolores was identified. But that's hardly the end of the story, nor was it really the full everybody's happy, let's go home situation. I think there were still a lot of questions from her family and processing of how could this have taken so long? Why couldn't this have been solved earlier? And as we explore in this episode, you know, and after introducing Kenny Hart and his work in episode seven, that there were others that had actually looked into this case and had solved it, essentially had put the pieces together before Kenny finally did his work, which gained the positive identification in the fall of 2020. So, you know, we look again at Holly, the granddaughter of Dolores Wolf, the daughter of Carly Wolf, her eldest, as well as a woman named Stacy Sherman, who is an Internet detective and, you know, looks into these cases and tries to match the missing with the unidentified. What are some of the biggest things you took away just from learning about what those two women did, but also how often these cases sit cold for decades, you know, even when there is information that's brought forth about how they could possibly be solved?
- [04:48]
C
It's a really interesting process that both of those women went through, Holly and Stacy, you know, in it for different reasons. Right. They kind of landed on it in their own unique ways. But from. For me, knowing that two different people essentially solved this case before law enforcement officially did, when Kenny Hart came and closed the door on it, is probably a pretty good indic indicator that it's not an isolated occurrence. Right. It happened twice here. There's a pretty good chance that that's happening elsewhere. Right. Happening with these sort of cases across the country. And if it's happening elsewhere, I guess I also am forced to conclude that those cases are not always getting swept up by a detective in the aftermath. Right. It was a very fortunate set of circumstances here that Kenny Hart became aware of it through a different case altogether. Right. And so it makes me wonder how many cases have been solved where police did not respond to the notifications from the DOE network or the individual or NAMUS dropped the ball and didn't pass along the leads that they received from people who made similar sorts of identifications. And I thought Stacy was really good on this topic that, look, if everyone would just work together, more of these cases can be solved and should be solved because we've experienced firsthand a pretty good understanding of what this meant for the Wolf and Rocha families. That means that there's a lot of other people who have. Could also be experiencing that across the country. And so I think everything that should be done in our collective power, hopefully this podcast helps kind of shine in a light on this issue to help lead to more identifications nationwide.
- [06:34]
B
Right?
- [06:34]
C
Yeah.
- [06:34]
B
I mean, again, just the pure interest in true crime, having done our first true crime podcast, but also consuming others, is off the charts. This is a topic that people are super captivated by and that there are people that want to see these resolutions for families. And, you know, fortunately it happened in this case, but it happened so many decades after the disappearance and even a few years after it could have happened, given some of the information that was brought forward by Holly and Stacy. So definitely mixed feelings, but we go through a lot of different reactions in this episode to the identification, including Slick and, you know, what it meant for him, what it meant for, you know, some of his. His immediate family members and others that just were there. And I think the goal here was really to show kind of that. That mixture of emotions you're leading to. What we'll look at in episodes, episode nine, which is called Coming Home, and. And really, you know, pies to put a bow on. On everything where we actually go back and. And kind of retrace some of the important sites in. In this podcast. But when. When we. When. When we went, we're kind of gathering those reactions and hey, what. Where were you when you find out? When you found out, how did you feel at that moment? It was really interesting, I thought, just to get the range.
- [08:01]
C
Yeah, we heard from, you know, her how Slick relayed the news to both of his sons. And both of them were a little, you know, Matt and David, like, they processed it in different ways. Like, what do you mean? She's like the. The idea that, oh, she's a. She's alive. They found her thinking, she's alive. Oh, and the other one was, oh, she they just found the body. No, there was, like, neither of them landed on what actually happened because the idea that she was found 40 years ago was almost implausible. Right. That. That they had to sit with this for 40 years when it should have been solved all those years ago was. Was. Was pretty interesting. Right? The fact that the, like, where their immediate reaction took them was. Was so far off from. From what actually happened. But, yeah, I. I did think it was.
- [08:45]
A
We.
- [08:45]
C
When we went back to pretty much everyone we interviewed in the podcast and asked for their reaction, it was like a very standard line of questioning that we used throughout. Throughout the process, like, where were you? Tell us where you were when you found out and everyone knew. Ex is not a moment that any of these. Any of these people will forget, because it's just such stunning news to receive. So to have them walk everyone through the kind of. The cycle of emotions was pretty interesting because it did vary. There was the anger, there was happiness, there was the. The closure. And over time, all those emotions for all of those people evolved. Right. And eventually they got to a place where it, you know, I think they're mostly just, like, grateful for Kenny and Benisha PD and just the fact that they're. They're, you know, Dolores gets a final resting place. There's somewhere that they can visit her, and in the end, it's. That's kind of where everyone's settled.
- [09:39]
B
Yeah. And just finally, one. One reaction that struck me, and we got into this a bit, was that of Daryl Ersman, you know, Paul's childhood friend, who lived just down the street on Hillcrest Drive. And this really brought a sense of peace for Daryl, who had been having, you know, that recurring dream he said is the only recurring dream he'd ever had in his life of. Of. Of, you know, going down to the house and seeing Dolores and where have you been all these years? And as soon as he heard that she had been identified and that, you know, she was essentially at rest and was returning to her family, that dream went away. And I do have to bring up, you know, one of our more interesting and kind of eerie tangents in this podcast was the connection to the Lacy Peterson case. And, you know, we knew that Darrell had worked in San Quentin, but to have him bring up the fact that, you know, Scott Peterson was in his unit and that Carl Wolf Sr. Reminded him so much of Scott having been around both of them in his life, and then finding out the Matt Rocha, you know, being at a golf tournament, and this guy comes up behind him and Says, hey, are you Rocha? And it turned out to be Scott Peterson, who was married to Lacy at the time, obviously, and her maiden name was Rocha. So that was just wild to learn about the connections between a case that I think fortunately is getting more attention now and a case that got incredible national attention when. When everything happened back in 20, 22, 23.
- [11:05]
C
I also add that when we heard that story from Darryl, we were actually standing in the Wolf home on Hillcrest Drive in the kitchen. Right? So we were. That was the day we went and toured the home. And that's where he broke the news to us and to Joel, the current homeowner, about, you know, how he dealt with Scott Peterson on a daily basis. It was a very surreal moment to. To be standing there, hearing that story in that location on top of it was like, you're kind of looking around, like there's a. You know, you're kind of feeling the ghost of Carl Wolf in that moment. Seeing how these parallels played out so many years later.
- [11:45]
B
No doubt. And again, not a lot of. A lot of interesting little tidbits in that pot in the. In episode eight, obviously, the. The Kim and Kanye connection with David Rocha and so forth. But anyway, we will be wrapping up the. The show with episode nine, Coming Home. It's a very special episode. A lot of emotions. Kyle and I are more directly involved because we again retrace some of the key sites, you know, with. With. With. With Dolores and leading up to her. Her burial there in Woodland. So excited for to share that with you guys next week. And thanks again for all your support for Kyle. I'm Adam. We'll see you next week.
- [12:25]
A
Did you know we have a newsletter for the Unforgotten? It's totally free and you can sign up@unforgottenpod.com we're also on Facebook and Instagram and those are great ways to stay in touch. But the newsletter is cool because it's an email that we send straight to your inbox every time we have a new episode. You get to go behind the scenes with the series creators. We also share photos and case files when we have them if you want. We also have a premium version of the newsletter. It's pretty cool because it lets you listen early and ad free. So I hope you'll head on over to unforgottenpod.com and sign up for our newsletter today. Whether you sign up for the free version or the premium version, you're the reason that the Unforgotten is able to shine a light on these unsolved crimes and other cases of injustice that are so important to a lot of people. We just thank you for listening and we thank you for your Support. Again, that's unforgottenpod.com.