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- [00:00]
Wes Ferguson
Hey, I'm Wes Ferguson, executive producer of the Unforgotten. Every season of the Unforgotten is a deep dive into an unresolved case, like a murder or a lot of murders or some miscarriage of justice. These are stories that matter to us, and with your support, we shine a light on them. Here's a quick sneak peek at season one, the Labor Day Ghost. Just in case you missed it. This is the story of a young mom named Shelly Salter Watkins. Her mysterious death in Corsicana, Texas, and why the quest to deliver justice for Shelly has gone so horribly wrong for so long.
- [00:37]
Matt Rocha Jr.
She does not go away. She haunts all of the people involved. They regard it as a cold case, but in fact, it's still hot. They do intimidate me for sure.
- [00:49]
David Rocha
Don't ruffle too many feathers. You need to be careful there. But also, 30 years later, I'm getting frickin tired now of oh no, we're.
- [00:59]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Still hoping and praying that we get some sort of closure.
- [01:05]
David Rocha
Don't we want to find out who killed Shelly?
- [01:10]
Wes Ferguson
This is the Unforgotten. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know we have a newsletter for the Unforgotten? It's totally free and you can sign up@unforgottenpod.com we're also on Facebook and Instagram and those are great ways to stay in touch. But the newsletter is cool because it's an email that we send straight to your inbox every time we have a new episode. You get to go behind the scenes with the series creators. We also share photos and case files when we have them if you want. We also have a premium version of the newsletter. It's pretty cool because it lets you listen early and ad free. So I hope you'll head on over to unforgottenpod.com and sign up for our newsletter today. Whether you sign up for the free version or the premium version, you're the reason that the Unforgotten is able to shine a light on these unsolved crimes and other cases of injustice that are so important to a lot of people. We just thank you for listening and we thank you for your support. Again, that's unforgottenpod.com so welcome into a.
- [02:09]
Adam Rittenberg
Bonus episode of the Unforgotten Season three, Finding Dolores Wolfe. Co hosts here, Adam Rittenberg and Kyle Bonagura. And the people have spoken and they wanted to hear more about Matthew Slick Rocha, not surprisingly, a character that we profiled extensively during the run of the show. And to do that we have gathered his two sons, Matt Rocha Jr. And David Rocha, and they were nice enough to join us to discuss their father and everything that he, you know, kind of growing up with him and certainly his life and all the ways that he impacted people there in the town. Obviously, we covered a lot about Slick's life in the show, Kyle, but with Matt and David, they have a unique perspective. Having spent their entire lives around him. What were you most interested in hearing from them about their dad and what type of person he was really behind the scenes?
- [03:05]
Kyle Bonagura
You know, we had, you know, like you said, extensive conversations with both of them over the years about their dad. Something that always stood out when we were talking to them is just, like, how much pride they had in being Slick's sons. Right. And there were people in their lives who knew some of the stories, right? To some degree. But I think the podcast gave them a chance to kind of share more about their dad in detail with, like, a lot more people in their lives, and they got to really celebrate him. And so kind of hearing about what it's like to be able to go through that process, I think was really cool to hear about. And then just kind of drilling down on some more, you know, day in the life type stories they had was Slick. You know, we highlighted the most interesting things that, you know, in our opinion, in the show. But, you know, there was obviously so much more to his life and the type of person he was as a youth sports coach, playing softball, his own athletic endeavors. So, yeah, like any. Any time spent discussing Slick is time well spent, no doubt.
- [03:59]
Adam Rittenberg
I mean, Slick had such an interesting early part of his life, but there was so much more that came after that. And I think both Matt Jr. And David are incredible storytellers and are able to detail just what he meant to them and what he meant to so many people around Woodland, Post Little Rock 9, Post Vietnam, and obviously during and after everything that happened with his sister. So a lot to share there. And without further ado, here's our conversation with Matt Rocha Jr. And David Rocha about their father, the one and only Matthew Slick.
- [04:31]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Rochelle.
- [04:49]
Adam Rittenberg
Guys, thanks so much for joining us. And, you know, not surprisingly, when we put this out there, the person that the audience couldn't get enough of and wanted to hear more about was your dad, who we referred to as Uncle Slick, but he's dad Slick for both of you guys. So we wanted to have you on to learn more about him. And first of all, you know, now that the podcast is out there and, you know, More people are aware of the story. How did people in your circles, you know, react to what they heard and especially the more extensive information that was revealed about your dad?
- [05:22]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Well, the fact that I put it on social media. So a lot of people have reached out and they're like, yeah, I remember this. I remember a little bit. And I also remember your dad being, like, super buffed and strong because he was like country strong with all the older peer families who are mostly used to name as professors and dentists and doctors. And here's this super brown guy with these huge biceps. Nobody knew about the military stuff until they saw it. So people have been texting me and emailing me and social media contacting me. They're like, man, I knew your dad was a tough mofo, but I didn't know. Now that makes sense how strong the dude was and how physically and mentally tough he was. But a lot of people were just sending me text messages that just said, like, wow.
- [06:06]
David Rocha
The people that have watched it now, I think a lot of the people haven't watched it. They knew my father basically for his softball ability and his athletic ability. So a lot of people will always, always would tell me, you don't know how good your father is. Like, your father does stuff that we don't even see young guys do. I mean, he just, you know, hit. And my father would tell me and say, oh, I hit, you know, 400 foot home run. And I'd say, sure you did, dad. But everybody knew him for his softball accomplishments that were, you know, apparently off the chart. But the ones that did listen to the podcast, they were like, oh, my God, this is insane. Did this really happen? I said, yeah, it, you know, it did. I don't think there was anything that was too surprising for me because it's been a long time since he first told me. I think I was 18 or 19 years old. And then over the years we've talked about it, and especially at the end, we talked about it a lot. So he would just kind of reiterate his stories that he had told me throughout the years. But, you know, I think a lot of people, like, a lot of my kids friends, they're just like, this is unbelievable. That was your father hearing it. They're like, man, that guy was something else.
- [07:30]
Kyle Bonagura
I'm curious, like, what has it been like to be able to then, you know, share stories about your dad? Obviously, you guys have a lot of pride in who he was and hold that close to your hearts, but having the opportunity then to kind of discuss him More with people and kind of help other people learn about him. What has it been like to share those stories with your friends?
- [07:46]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Recently I've had a couple friends reach out and just ask me about the military stuff and told them stuff that wasn't originally in there, about things that.
- [07:54]
David Rocha
He did and how he felt again.
- [07:56]
Matt Rocha Jr.
He told me we used to drive down the six hours from NorCal to see David in Ventura. And he just said he felt terrible because the Vietnamese people were small and.
- [08:07]
David Rocha
A lot of them were teenagers.
- [08:09]
Matt Rocha Jr.
So some of these guys he killed were like 5 foot 2, 110 pounds.
- [08:13]
David Rocha
They were like women.
- [08:14]
Matt Rocha Jr.
And how bad he felt that these kids weren't doing anything besides what their government told them. But by and large, like my brother said, he was. He. He was. This is wild. So UC Davis, in intramurals, the employees could play also. And they had a fast pitch leg. Fast pitch softball, right. My dad played in the fast pitch softball World Series in New York in 1963, I think it was. Took a train to New York to play fast pitch and they won a world title in fast pitch. But I'd go watch these games. He would be in his work clothes, which was a white T shirt, Levi's and Hush Puppies with a cigarette in his mouth.
- [08:58]
Kyle Bonagura
And I know he played late in life, both like certainly slow pitch. But like, how late did that go in his life where he was still active in those sort of leagues?
- [09:06]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Well, I told you about when I played fast pitch and he was 65. Did I tell you this story?
- [09:12]
Kyle Bonagura
Remind me.
- [09:12]
Matt Rocha Jr.
So I played hardball. There's a barrier hardball late from 30 to 35. And there was like Larry Herndon and all these pros were playing. And I never played college, but I matured late. So in the first all star game at 30, I was the only guy who didn't play pros or college. And I was seeing 90 for my first time. I'd never seen like low 80s was like that max. After that I decided 40 to play fast paced softball in San Francisco. And we played all of these teams and this one team was from Oakland. They're all African American. And the pitcher was huge. The dude was 6, 5, 2, 20 and threw gas. I thought he was like maybe 50. It was hard to tell. We had two girls softball pitchers on our team that were like in their 20s. We're all like in our 30s and 40s. Well, they couldn't make a game once we're playing this team, that would kill us. So I said, dad, is there any chance you can come down Wednesday night. We have no pitching. I've been practicing it, but I can barely lob the ball with the full windmill. He goes, I might be able to give you two winnings. I don't know. I said, just come down. I don't care. Just throw strikes. Because we can't even throw strikes. We were probably going to get mercy by these guys. They're good. So we come down, he's lobbing the ball. He hasn't done this in 20 years, but he's throwing strikes. They're way out in front. They can't hit him. They're hitting slow rollers. They're rolling it over to third, shortstop. We win the fricking game by three, two. So we're going through that high five line, and the pitcher, the guy was super nice, a huge guy. Dude was an amazing athlete. He looks at my dad and goes, matt Rocha, right? And my dad looks at him, completely confused. He goes, you remember who I am? I was like, I have no idea. I'm sorry. The guy was actually 65, also the same as my dad. He looked like he was 50. The dude was muscular. He says, you don't remember you and I pitching in the regional championship of fast pitch, like literally 40 years earlier?
- [11:17]
Kyle Bonagura
Oh, my God.
- [11:18]
Matt Rocha Jr.
You don't remember you and I pitching? He goes, God, it sort of rings a bell. Who won? He goes, we did one nothing. I hit a solo home run off you. We walk away. I says, I can't believe that mofo is your age. You're loving it. That dude still throws heat because I sort of remember it now. That guy was an amazing athlete then. I can't believe he's still an amazing athlete at 65. My dad was just pure slow pitch at 65, but he. He was still hitting 300 footers at 80 over the fence, 300ft, and he stopped in his 81 or 82 and he quit. He says, I'm not playing anymore. I can't hit it out. I go, dude, just be a doubles hitter. You're old as. That's for pussies. I'd rather not play than hit singles.
- [12:03]
Kyle Bonagura
Well, shit, I play slow pitch, and I'm a singles hitter. So I guess I better. I better hang it up now.
- [12:19]
Matt Rocha Jr.
You hear that? That's not just a Toyota truck. That's the sound of no crowds, no alerts, no distractions, and no telling what you'll find next. You know, like a detour. So why would you ever take a tour when you could take a detour? Toyota trucks.
- [12:47]
Wes Ferguson
Lately, a lot of people have started realizing how much unnecessary chemicals are all around them every day. When I started looking around the chemicals in my own home, I realized that my laundry detergent was one of the worst offenders. Did you know that traditional laundry detergent can leave harsh chemical residue on your clothes?
- [13:06]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Yeah.
- [13:06]
Wes Ferguson
Neither did I. Turns out most popular detergents are packed with harsh chemicals that can irritate your skin, mess up your hormones, and cause allergic reactions. You know, I don't really want that stuff around my home anymore, so I switched to Earth Breeze. Their detergent sheets are free from harsh chemicals like optical brighteners, dyes, parabens, phosphates, and preservatives. If you're looking for a powerful clean without harsh chemicals, try Earth Breeze. It's easy to switch. And if you're not completely satisfied, they have an amazing money back guarantee. Right now. You can try Earth Breeze for up to 40% off plus four free gifts@earthbreeze.com unforgotten that's earthfreeze.com unforgotten for 40% off plus four free gifts.
- [14:02]
Adam Rittenberg
I'm just curious. Obviously, you probably noticed he was maybe physically different when you were growing up, but given what you found out about him later in life, thinking about how he was when you were growing up, did you sense there was anything different about him? Just from a mental standpoint? Because to do what he did, he had to be different mentally, too.
- [14:21]
David Rocha
I did. And I don't know if it was because he was my father, but I just. I remember him. Like my brother was saying, he had extremely big biceps. Like, it seemed like it first, like.
- [14:32]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Arnold Schwarzenegger, baseball in your arm.
- [14:36]
David Rocha
He always was very quiet. He wasn't an outspoken guy for the most part, but it seemed like a lot of people had a lot of respect for him around him. You know, when I was growing up, people that knew him, people that even, like some of my high school coaches, said they used to watch him play when they were little kids. You know, Davis was a small town, so everybody around him had a lot of respect for him and talked extremely highly of him. And then on top of that, just him, you know, looking big and looking athletic and everything. I always thought, you know, that he had just a very quiet but, you know, kind of an intimidating way about him. And then people disrespected him. And so for me, I always thought that it was my father. I looked up to him, but I thought that he had something else about him. And then, of course, he was in the military, but I Didn't know, obviously, until I was, you know, 18 or 19, to what level he was in the military.
- [15:35]
Adam Rittenberg
You know, guys, we touched on it in the podcast about him coaching, you know, the youth in the area, but we didn't get into it, you know, extensively. Like, what was it like when he coached and how many kids and just what he was like during that time when he was a youth coach.
- [15:50]
Matt Rocha Jr.
So my dad. It's funny because a lot of these traits I picked up from my dad, I don't even think about it, but me being the president Little League for a long time, being a youth coach, one of the kids. My dad loved teasing people, right? But he also loved being teased, right? If it was funny, if it was clever. So he always carried the little league rule book in his back pocket. So something happened in one of our games. He's like, oh, no, no, no. He comes out, he goes, if you see right here, right? And he quotes section 7.2, right? The umpire is probably a teenager, right? Or somebody's dad. He comes walking back with a big grin, right? That he was right. And this kid on my team named Randy goes, good job. Rule book, road shot. Well, then all the GIFs are calling that, oh, get a rule buck. He just took pride that he knew every rule, how to get around everything.
- [16:41]
Kyle Bonagura
The nickname thing stuck with me, too, that he. I mean, your dad told us when we met with him, like, yeah, he had a nickname for everyone, every kid he coached. Would those stick with him, too? Would he just, like, always default to the nicknames later in life when he saw kids around town? Or, like, how pervasive was that part of the deal, having him?
- [16:57]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Well, the funny part is I grew up with two twins, Tom and Doug Cook. They were always at our house. I met him after seventh grade, but by the summer of eighth grade, they were almost our family. They came to spend the night one weekend. They stayed for three weeks at our house. We had horses, cows. We were playing wolfle ball, Nerf ball. We had guns. We had pellet guns, shotguns,22s. We could see them as late as we wanted. Hide and go seek in the dark in the barn. Just scaring kids. I'm still good friends. One lives in Danville by you college. We still tell stories, but their names were Tom and Doug Cook. Couldn't be any easier to remember. So he named them after two of our male pigs that we use for breeding, which was Jethro and Homer. We'd be out. He's like, I can't tell Jethro And Homer apart. The kids. Like, who the hell's Jethro and Homer? Ah, the fucking cooks. Why don't they just call. Why is he calling Jethro and Homer? I go, he knows Doug is Jethro and Thomas Homer, but he can't tell him apart.
- [18:06]
David Rocha
My father had a very unique quality in that and that he would never call anybody by. Even me. Called me Hucky Van Bozo. I have no idea why. And then it went to Van Bozo, and then it went to Van Bose, and then it was just Bose. And then, of course, my oldest son was little Bose. And the first time he met my wife, he called her Sarsaparilla.
- [18:29]
Matt Rocha Jr.
What?
- [18:30]
David Rocha
Which lasted until the second time he saw her. And then he called her Winnemucca, which stayed with her forever.
- [18:38]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Winnemucca's a town in Nevada, isn't it?
- [18:42]
David Rocha
Yeah. Her name's Delia, which is hard to remember, I think, for some, but I don't know if Winnemucca is any easy.
- [18:49]
Matt Rocha Jr.
That's what I was going to say.
- [18:50]
Adam Rittenberg
I was like, all right.
- [18:52]
David Rocha
And then he calls my daughter. He called her Little Mucka. So he would just come up with these odd names. Like, my youngest son was his Bumper, because when he was little, he would hit his head on everything. So my dad just called him Bumper. And even at the end when he was living here, you know, and his mind would kind of go at times, and. But when my son would walk out, he would say, bumper, you're the only one I can trust. It's weird, but it was always there. Even towards the end, he relied on the nicknames. And my kids, he knew their nicknames, didn't remember what their real names were.
- [19:33]
Adam Rittenberg
Amazing.
- [19:35]
Kyle Bonagura
There's something else that we address a little bit in the podcast was Paul telling us about how your dad's influence as a mentor and a coach kind of maybe steered him in the direction of coaching. Is that something you guys have talked about with Paul or. Or your dad at times over the years? Like, how important was that relationship, you think, for Paul, in terms of getting into coaching?
- [19:54]
Matt Rocha Jr.
I think the fact that my dad was basically mellow and easygoing and he enjoyed, because David and I and Paul being three and four years apart, he just enjoyed, I think, staying involved with sports since he wasn't playing as much. But he also just really liked kids. I think teasing them and making fun of them and tell them they did a good job. He would say, you can kiss more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. Basically saying complimenting kids is Better than brighten their ass.
- [20:27]
David Rocha
Yeah. Oh yeah. He was never a hard coach at all. And I think that's what made a lot of kids want to play for him. In fact, one year we had lost in the championship. And the rules were whoever won the championship got to manage the All Star team. And one of the better kids in the league, his father, they won the championship. So he was going to be the All Star manager. His own son said, I will not play for my father. I will only play for Mr. Rocha. And so they ended up making my father the All Star manager. And they agreed to do it because they wanted obviously to put the best team they could out there. But it definitely influenced all of us. I think Paul into coaching, it influenced me and my brother. I mean, I coached 17 years in Little league baseball and twice lost to go to the World Series to the eventual winners. I got a lot of satisfaction from that. And I think that's what I saw with my father is that he liked being around the kids, he liked kind of joking with them and just, you know, being in that atmosphere. And a lot of the kids I coach are coming here now. You know, a lot of them got into law enforcement or something. So they come here now to train with one of my sons and I in jiu jitsu. So I still have, now I have that adult relationship with these kids. And I think that's what my father liked, is that he had the ability to kind of help mold and.
- [21:57]
Matt Rocha Jr.
And he was pretty laid.
- [21:58]
David Rocha
I was pretty laid back too. As a coach. I was probably a little bit more aggressive as my father, but it was because of the same reasons he was. Because before I started coaching, I would see people within the league, even the board, taking advantage of the league for their own satisfaction to win. Like the first year I started coaching, there was a team in our league that were made up of all the board members kids. They would win the championship every year. So my son got, because we are new to the league, he got put on the team with kind of all the misfits of the league. And I'm like, well, this is shitty. So you put the kids that nobody else wants to coach because whatever reason, they're kind of hard to coach. Their parents are in jail, so they're never there to pick their kids or take, you know, so they throw all these kids on one team and then my kid, because he's new, and we ended up winning the championship and beating the board members team. And that's what kind of motivated my dad not only to Coach, but then be a different coach than the kind of the ones he was seeing.
- [23:04]
Matt Rocha Jr.
The one thing about him, he was super ethical, and that was something he taught to us at a young age. I remember getting overchanged at the store once. Like, they gave me change for a 10. When I gave him a five, he's like, go back. Go back in there. That's going to come out of his paycheck. They said, oh, bullshit, it's not. I'm keeping it. He's like, no, you go back in. I was asking a Tom and died cook. So I went back in to get change for the five so we could split it up equally.
- [23:33]
Adam Rittenberg
That's great. You know, guys, we did want to ask you. I'd love to keep going with the baseball and softball talk, but what it was like after he told you guys about his military career, because you didn't know the details until you were basically young adults. And when we.
- [23:48]
Wes Ferguson
We.
- [23:48]
Adam Rittenberg
We talked about it in the podcast, about that emotional part of it. But what was it like after? Did he gradually talk more about it? Did he clam up? Like, what was it like after that initial. This is what I really did over in Vietnam.
- [24:01]
Matt Rocha Jr.
I had a history professor that was like an ex Marine captain or something. And I immediately went back to him. I said, could this be true? Like, my dad was in Vietnam in 1957, and he was like, killing these guys, paratrooping in and killing them at night. He's like, absolutely. Because I thought this. This seems fake. This doesn't seem real. But then after several years later, like, we'd drive for hours and hours to go see my brother, and he would tell me all these stories. I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell any of our friends or anything. I kept it to us for a long, long time. I didn't want people to think we were crazy because already it was tough dealing with everybody thinking, what's wrong with this family? Because my uncle killed my aunt. So I just didn't want to tell anybody for a long time until we got probably into my 30s. I told my good friends.
- [24:50]
David Rocha
Yeah, I mean, for me, seeing the initial emotion that he showed when we watched the movie Platoon, I thought right away that, man, there's got to be something to this, because, you know, people don't tend to get emotional. Like, I've dealt with a lot of people that made up stories. They're trying to justify whatever they did criminally, and they're telling you this story. But the thing that you see in that is their story's never quite the same. My father's was always consistent. His story was always the same. And it was always kind of hard for him to talk about it, especially when he first told me. And then when he told me again at the end of his life, sitting out in the backyard here and he would start talking about it. It was very emotional for him. When we would talk about it, he would just kind of expand on it or tell me more detail about it. I always, you know, I thought more about it. I asked him more questions about it over the years. You know, I thought a lot about, wow, I mean, that must have been something else. And my opinion of my father was even higher, you know, especially with the Little Rock thing. A lot of people have reacted to that too, you know, like, oh, my God, your father was there, like, because that was a big thing in our history. And so for him to actually be there and actually experience it. And again, even in that, his story was always the same. You don't make up stories and then have a consistent. See in your story like he did.
- [26:22]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Right.
- [26:23]
Kyle Bonagura
Well, something I thought was interesting, Dave, is that. Is that he went a long time without talking about it. Right. He told us that he didn't tell anyone for several years. And to have to go through something like that and to not talk about it like there's. That impacts you in a certain way, right? However it impacted him. I know. I don't know. But do you think that when he finally talked to you guys about it, it helped him in a certain way? Or like, what do you think he got out of sharing those stories with you guys for the next several years?
- [26:50]
David Rocha
I think it took a lot of weight off his shoulders. I think being able to share that and then maybe justify it more. He didn't feel probably the way he did when it was happening. After it was all over with, then he returned back to us. I think he struggled with it. He started realizing these guys had me doing things that probably were a little unethical. Even in war, most people will tell you we weren't even there at the time. But now we know that we're everywhere, right? You know, we're always places. We just don't know about it. The media is not telling us. So I think for him, people knew my father as the kind of the mellow, level headed guy. My brother was telling the story about him taking money at the store, getting money. I remember a story, we were at the county fair. There was a booth selling like barbecued sandwiches. It was being run by like an Older group of senior citizens. So I went over there to get a sandwich, you know, and I probably had whatever five or ten bucks and my change was $15. So I told all my buddies, I'm like, hey, these people are giving money. I think we were probably $50 up when somehow my father found out. He took us back there and he made us give all the money back because it was wrong. It was just wrong, you know, and that's the way he always was.
- [28:19]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Well, I just remember one of the stories. So we had this pig farm, which is on the edge of Dixon that had a lot of manual labor. But my friends would work for us, work for my dad. And they thought he was a character, right? Some of them encouraged by him, but they'd been around our house and seen my dad and thought he was funny. One day they come back and they're like, oh my God, your fucking dad. I said, why, what happened? They're like, we're trying to move pigs, right? These are like 200 pound pigs from one area to another. And one pig wouldn't go. You use these boards to sort of guide them around. He's like, your dad was starting to get pissed off. This pig kept running back out of where he wanted him to go. And he lost his temper. He says, your dad just picked up the pig, grabbed him like, just wrapped his arms around him and picked him up and threw him over the fence. I said, how big was he? He's like £200. It was like a full grown pig. It wasn't his. Your dad would still cigarette hanging out of the corner, God damn it. And just threw him over and then shut the game. Just went back about his business, completely mellow. And they're like, your dad is Popeye, dude. He just threw this pig over like a three foot fence.
- [29:30]
Adam Rittenberg
Unbelievable.
- [29:30]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Then he said, then he was just back to drinking Pepsi and smoking cigarettes like nothing happened.
- [29:36]
David Rocha
Yeah, well, that reminded me of another story. We were working at the pig farm and my dad, you know, it was the old days. It wasn't everybody got to carry water around with them or you had to make sure everybody got enough food. My father would feed us like once a day. If we worked out there for 10 or 12 hours, he would drive into the nearest market in Dixon and he would get a pack of baloney, a bag of cinnamon rolls or rolls. Rolls. And basically probably Pepsi. So one of the times he goes in there, I wasn't there. This is a story I was told is that he was walking up to go to the store, the electric door apparently closed on a kid, and everybody's going, oh, my God.
- [30:16]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Oh, what do we do? What do we do?
- [30:18]
David Rocha
And my dad walked up and basically jerked the door off the slider, ripped.
- [30:24]
Matt Rocha Jr.
The door off his hinges and just set it down and walked in. People were looking around like, what just happened?
- [30:30]
David Rocha
For him, it was like common sense. What do you mean? What do you do? The door's squeezing the kid. You take it off, you know?
- [30:44]
Wes Ferguson
Fall is here, and with it comes cooler nights, heartier meals, and the craving for something warm and satisfying. That's where HelloFresh comes in, bringing you comforting chef design recipes and fresh seasonal ingredients right to your door. This season, they have taken things to the next level with their biggest menu refresh yet. Say hello to a whole new way to do dinner. HelloFresh has doubled its menu, so you can choose from 100 options each week. And now you can get seafood and steak recipes delivered every week for no extra cost. I recently signed up for HelloFresh and I found it to be really convenient. And the recipes are easy to follow. And it's also really delicious and healthy, which feels good, too. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com unforgotten10fm now to get 10 free meals plus a free item for life. One per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com unforgotten10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free item for life. Hey, I'm Wes Ferguson, executive producer of the Unforgotten. Every season of the Unforgotten is a deep dive into an unresolved case, like a murder or a lot of murders or some miscarriage of justice. These are stories that matter to us, and with your support, we shine a light on them. Here's a sneak peek at season two unnatural causes, just in case you missed it.
- [32:19]
Charlie Scudder
Think about a loved one you've lost, maybe a grandmother or your father or a beloved aunt. You believe the end was peaceful and painless. You've planned the funeral, made sure the estate was settled. You've moved belongings into storage or sold them or said final goodbyes on the curb. Now imagine you get a call. As much as two years later, police want you to come to the station. They say what you were told about the death was wrong. They want to add your loved one's name to a list of murder victims. That's the terrible reality that at least two dozen families are facing today. My name is Charlie Scudder I'm a journalist who's been covering this case for five years. Together, we'll do what the police, medical examiners, senior living facilities, and more either failed or refused to do. String together evidence that points to systemic flaws in how we care for our older loved ones. You'll hear about a man who used the cracks in that system to become the worst serial killer in Dallas history. This is Unnatural Causes, season two of the Unforgotten. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:35]
Matt Rocha Jr.
But I think I. I think I told you guys. He didn't know our birthdays and didn't know how old we were after we became adults. When we were going to TAHOE for my 40th birthday, he got picked up in Davis by a friend of mine who had a new white BMW 540. Expensive car. So he picks up. My dad, says, hey, Slick. Because all my buddies called me slick. Then after college, it was. I was slick. Hey, Slick Senior. No smoking in the car. All right, all right. We're not making it straight through, I'll tell you that. We're not going two hours. So everybody's like, yeah, we're. We're going to stop and get some beer on the way up to Tahoe. So they stop at 7:11, run in. He hops out, he's smoking. Some dude walks up and goes, oh, nice car. And he's like, what? He's like, you got a nice car. He goes, that's not my car. He goes, you know how much that cost? He goes, how would I know how much it costs? And the Guy's like, that's $65,000 car. He's like, you're shitting me. This car is $65,000. So guy gets back in. He's like, hey, Jeff, you must do pretty good. Some guy just told me your cars were $65,000. This is like 20 something years ago. She's like, yeah, I'm doing all right. Sick. So we get up there and we rented a house. It was my 40th birthday. There was like eight of us. So they love giving him. We're sitting around drinking beer. My dad would have a beer, too, but we're doing, like, tequila shots and whiskey shots. We're just getting it going. He says, how often do you guys do this? This is. You guys just rent houses and come up here and drink and eat? They go, oh, yeah, we do a couple times a year. Because what. What's the deal? Why are you doing it now? So they think he's joking. It's my 40th birthday. He says, for your kid's birthday. For Slick Junior's birthday. He's like, oh, oh, yeah. His birthday is in January. How old is he? And they said, 40. He says, no, wait, that's about right. I'm 65. I think he is. No, you think he is? No, he is. He is turning 40. This is his birthday. And they were. They're laughing in the living room or kitchen, and they're like, hey, Slick, your dad doesn't know how old you are. He doesn't even know it's your birthday. I go, I told him. He just forgot. Oh, that's.
- [35:49]
Kyle Bonagura
So that's.
- [35:49]
Matt Rocha Jr.
When we went to dinner, Debbie, Jeff picked up a check. It was like a 500 check. He's like, Holy smokes. That dinner cost $500. They give you a surprise. Because if he paid for it all. I said, well, we don't. We just sort of go, I. I'll get drinks. They'll get drinks. You'll get dinner. We just. It all comes back around because we always hang out. Like, he's not always paying. He's just paying now.
- [36:13]
Kyle Bonagura
Well, you know what? You know what Debbie Baker told me is, like, there was these, like, lunches in town in Woodland recently at the end.
- [36:19]
Charlie Scudder
Right.
- [36:19]
Kyle Bonagura
Where was a bunch of extended cousins. And she would say that your dad would pay for everyone every time.
- [36:25]
David Rocha
Yeah.
- [36:26]
Adam Rittenberg
Except for the male. Like, if there were male cousins there. Right, right.
- [36:29]
Wes Ferguson
She would all.
- [36:30]
Kyle Bonagura
He would only pay for the women after any other dudes showed up and they got to fend for themselves.
- [36:34]
Matt Rocha Jr.
He's generous. He'd given you 99 cents of his dollar if you needed it.
- [36:39]
David Rocha
Well, it's funny because at the end when we were talking, I said, hey, when did you guys stop having those luncheons with the cousins and stuff? He goes, oh, it's been a while. He goes, I think they just showed up because they get free meals from me. But, you know, he was always that way. Like I said, when he was here at the end, you know, I brought all this stuff down with me because I wanted to make it seem as much like his apartment as I could. So I grabbed everything, and when I got here, I started going through stuff, and I found years and years of old checkbooks. And I'm looking at it, and I'm like, dad, you were spending thousands of dollars. I mean, thousands. I'm not joking. So much money. He was paying for people's bills within the family, supporting them, basically. I wouldn't be surprised if he was paying some of their Rents. But that was the way he was. I mean, ultimately it was his decision to make. I said, geez, you could have left us a million dollars, dad.
- [37:41]
Matt Rocha Jr.
He was very soft hearted. He didn't care about money. He never got on the Internet. I tried to buy him a laptop because I thought it'd be interesting for him to do research on history and things that he liked. He never, ever got on the Internet. Never experienced it. One time I was there and he was a soft heart, right? So we're watching one of those, you know, late night, ESPN late night, and he says, you know, support a kid for $15 a month. One of those deals, only $15 a month, kids you eat in Africa. He's like, yeah, I'm supporting five of those kids. I go, what? It's like, yeah, I write a check for $123 every month. My dad, like 5% of that money goes to the kids. It all goes to the administrators. It's a huge scam.
- [38:28]
David Rocha
How do you know?
- [38:29]
Matt Rocha Jr.
I'm like, because I researched it before I give money to anybody. I researched what percentage goes to the cause. Well, maybe they're lying. No, they're not lying, dad. It's just.
- [38:40]
David Rocha
Well, that's what I tried to tell him when I was. When he was here, and I'd see all the consistent checks written. I go, dad, how do you know this, Winston? He goes, well, they sent me a picture of the kids.
- [38:50]
Matt Rocha Jr.
I'm like, you've had the same picture for 10 years.
- [38:55]
David Rocha
Is this kid not growing?
- [38:57]
Matt Rocha Jr.
Yes. He said he has an age. The kid's a grandfather now.
- [39:01]
David Rocha
I think he supported their whole family.
- [39:04]
Matt Rocha Jr.
He actually lives around the corner from you in a nice house.
- [39:08]
Adam Rittenberg
Right, right.
- [39:09]
David Rocha
That's truly it. If he thought he was doing it for the right reason, as much as I would joke with him, I thought, yeah, whatever, Whatever. If you want to raise these kids all over the world.
- [39:20]
Kyle Bonagura
One other thing I did want to get to before we wrap this up, guys, is after Dolores body was identified, like David, I think you said it when we talked before that the conversation kind of shifted. It was a little bit more negative before. And then once she was identified, you said it turned positive. What were those conversations about his sister like for those last few years that he was around after she had been ID'd, and he knew that he was going to have his final resting place next to her.
- [39:45]
David Rocha
You know, when he called me and said, hey, they found your aunt, I truly thought for a second that they found her alive. Just I guess it was hope. I was like, what do you mean they found it? He goes, well, and he told me, explained it to me. I said, oh, that's unbelievable. But after that, you know, he really started focusing on everything that was good that happened during their life. And I think for him, that was all that was important now is that he relived the good times that he had with her and all the good times that we had together. Because, you know, I was talking to Tom yesterday, and I was saying, you know, the thing about them is they were like the two people in the room that knew the secret. You know, they were always laughing. And not that my Uncle Frank and my Uncle Ellard. Well, my Uncle Ellard, he didn't have a sense of humor, but my Uncle Frank. But it's something between my Tatia and my father that they knew the secrets that. And they're always laughing and joking and have a good time. At the end, he would always tell me the stories, the things they did together, all the good times they had. I mean, it really was a unique relationship with the age gap.
- [41:01]
Matt Rocha Jr.
She took care of him. She was a big sister that probably fed him and made sure he took a shower, took care of himself. She used to tell a story. He was going to a dance, and he had been working out, and he's all sweaty and smelly, and they made him change his clothes. At least he wouldn't get in the shower. There's Airwick. It was a cotton thing that was soaked in thing. He pulled the Airwick out of the living room thing and he swiped it under his arms. And she told that story all the time. Oh, your dad smelled like a goat. Wouldn't even shower going to a dance and just rubbed Airwick and put on a clean T shirt.
- [41:37]
Adam Rittenberg
Well, guys, we could talk all day about this, but we really appreciate you guys both for certainly helping us with the podcast itself, but also doing this and sharing other stories about Slick. Certainly somebody that, you know, we'll never forget. And I know the listeners won't forget either. So thanks again to both of you guys. The Unforgotten is a Free range production. Season 3 Finding Dolores Wolf is written and hosted by Kyle Bonagura and me, Adam Rittenberg. The story is edited and produced by Wes Ferguson, the executive producer at Free Range. Audio editing by Aislin Gaddis. Audio production and sound design by Austin Sisler with Eastside Studios in Austin, Texas. Special thanks to ESPN.