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- [00:00]
A
Five years ago, the body of this young guy named Christopher Allen Whiteley was found next to a dry creek outside the tiny town of Lipan, Texas. Our top story tonight, a highly unusual death of a man is under investigation. It was a very gruesome scene.
- [00:15]
B
His neck was ripped out.
- [00:16]
A
Basically, the local sheriff's office fired off a public warning. They said a mountain lion was on the loose. Hide your kids, hide your pets, and.
- [00:24]
B
Be wary of the woods.
- [00:25]
A
All these trackers and game wardens and other wildlife experts rushed in to find the killer cat.
- [00:31]
B
There's no sign. Line of lines, the absence of claw marks. If I'd have seen one track, I'd have said, yeah, possibly. But there was just nothing there.
- [00:41]
A
So why did the sheriff then double down? Why did they close the case? And what really happened to Christopher Whiteley on that cold December day in 2020? This is season four of the Unforgotten kill site. Hey, I'm Wes Ferguson, executive producer of the Unforgotten. Every season of the Unforgotten is a deep dive into an unresolved case, like a murder or a lot of murders or some miscarriage of justice. These are stories that matter to us, and with your support, we shine a light on them. Here's a quick sneak peek at season one, the Labor Day Ghost. Just in case you missed it. This is the story of a young mom named Shelly Salter Watkins. Her mysterious death in Corsicana, Texas, and why the quest to deliver justice for Shelley has gone so horribly wrong for so long.
- [01:37]
B
She does not go away. She haunts all of the people involved. They regard it as a cold case, but in fact, it's still hot. They do intimidate me, for sure. Don't ruffle too many feathers. You need to be careful there. But also, 30 years later, I'm getting freaking tired now of, oh, no. We're still hoping and praying that we get some sort of closure. Don't we want to find out who killed Shelley?
- [02:10]
A
This is the Unforgotten. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:16]
C
Hey, there. Welcome to another bonus episode of the Unforgotten. Season three, finding Dolores Wolf. Your hosts here, Adam Rittenberg and Kyle Banagura. And today we are talking with one of the more colorful figures and voices you heard in the podcast series, and that is of Tony Rocha, who is Dolores Wolf's cousin growing up in the woodland area and was really part of almost every step of this story, from knowing Carl Wolf and when he met Dolores to bringing him into the family, to obviously everything that happened afterward. And as the listeners know, Tony is not one to bite his tongue or hold back or suppress how he's feeling and was one of the reasons we wanted to talk to him more, Kyle, Just about, you know, the different things he observed and participated in, certainly the shenanigans that took place around Carl Wolf, but, you know, some other plans. He really gets into detail talking with us about what they plan to do if Carl Wolf wasn't willing to confess. And certainly covered a lot of interesting territory with the one and only Tony Rocha.
- [03:26]
D
Yeah, he's a one of one type guy, Tony. We've both had a lot of fun talking with Tony over the years, and there's certainly no filter with him. He's going to call it how he sees it. And, you know, like you said, Adam, he experienced this story from day one and was intimately involved in the attempts to, you know, find Dolores, dig for her. He was like, he dealt with the psychics and he was part of the. The group that really harassed Carl Wolf in and around Woodland. And so, you know, it was fun. During the run of the show, you know, we'd occasionally get texts from Tony, you know, about different parts of it, and there was like, little tidbits here and there that he added, oh, you know, we could have talked about this or that, and we're like, hey, let's just bring him on. We'll have a conversation. It'll be more informal, let people hear from him directly and in a little bit more of a loose environment. So that's what we got to do with Tony. And I'm excited for everyone to have a little sampling of what it's like to chat with our guy Tony.
- [04:18]
C
Yeah, you won't be bored with this episode because there are details and there are some shocking things that maybe you wouldn't be surprised by after hearing him in the podcast series, but he really gets into it a little bit more with us. So without further ado, here's our conversation with Dolores Wolf's cousin, Tony Rocha. So we're thrilled to be joined by Tony Rocha, a voice that you heard throughout the series here in Finding Dolores Wolf. And, you know, Tony, you were there really throughout this whole process as a cousin of Dolores's and, you know, family member, very close to the whole situation. I'm just wondering, now that you've had a chance to hear the entire series and all the different voices and all the stories, what was just kind of your reaction to everything you heard, having lived it yourself back in the 70s and 80s, but now you're kind of going back through it and hearing it.
- [05:30]
B
All again obviously brings up a lot of, you know, tough memories, you know, and, and it's sad to say, but there was a lot of camaraderie that came out of, let's just say, our shenanigans, you know, and so a lot of that stuff was kind of rehashed and out of tragedy, sometimes fun things come up. A lot of mixed emotion on that stuff.
- [05:50]
D
We talked a lot, you know, way back when we first started reporting the story and again for the podcast. A lot of those shenanigans, right. And when you think about the job you did, kind of making Carl Wolf's life miserable around Woodland for those years, kind of walk us through that period and how present you guys were in his life and how, you know, how important that was for you guys to kind of be his shadow around town for that period of time.
- [06:14]
B
Well, you know, there were things that I knew that even their kids didn't know because my sisters told me about times they triple dated, you know, with their husbands and Dolores and Carl, and how Carl would treat Dolores very poorly after he started drinking. And my brother in law, who really hasn't been mentioned in this much because he kind of stayed out of the scenes, no nonsense guy, and he really wanted to beat the hell out of Carl Wolf. Every time he came close, Dolores was right there and she'd jump in between and say, you know, don't do it, he's drunk. He doesn't treat me this way when he's sober. And so when it came down to when Matt Jr witnessing meetings at his house, well, they were kids. They, as much as they loved their aunt, they weren't involved at the level that we were. My brother in law, my nephew Tony and me, we met and from there we got a hold of Slick and we went to his house and this was the first of those meetings that they talked about. And I'm just going to be blunt with you. The plan was to get a confession or kill him. And we were all in. And I'm going to be right honest with you, I had no problem with it. Neither did any of us, because at this point he deserved that, you know. And so the first meeting ended with Slick, as he told you guys. He threatened him and said, I'm going to blow your head off. And we said, Matthew, there's no reason to get caught. You blow his head off, you're going to get caught. We had a friend and I can't really, because this guy was tied to law enforcement who gave us some tips. And like I say, I'm being blunt. And the tips were a way that a body will never be found. And we were going to carry it out if he didn't confess. You know, there's a whole Doug. The whole thing was a whole Doug and everything. And Slick just kind of, you know, he was worried that he'd never be able to bury his sister in a cemetery. And I don't blame him. And we always left him as the final word because his sister. Right. And he said, the cops asked me to tell you guys to stand off for a month. And we got something going on. It's going to be big. So we were like, all right, Matthew, no problem. So we basically, we took that month and we cased Carl Wolf on his habits because we were going to have to grab him. A month went by and we had another meeting. We were all gung ho to go. The location of the final resting place was in place, and again, we got told to wait. And so at that point, it now been two months since she disappeared. And the rest of the family didn't want to stand down anymore because we had given the cops two months. The rest of us just got really impatient and we said, it's time to do something, you know. And so that something was all out terror on Carl Wolf 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
- [09:06]
D
Right. So when you said you were told to stand down for the second time, you're being told to stand down from who? By who?
- [09:14]
B
Well, Matthew was our contact to law enforcement. Matthew and my sister Mary, they knew people in the system because my sister Mary worked for the county. She knew a lot of police officers and people in the DA's office. And slick obviously was Dolores brother. So he was right in the middle of that part. And so they. We were told a second time that I know it's been a month and they didn't come through. But they're telling me the reason it took a while is because again, an infrared airplane to scan the property and look in these different properties. Let's give them another three weeks to a month, and this time they promise they'll do something. And they didn't. They didn't do anything. And that's why, you know, we started with the total harassment. And, you know, me and my nephew and a couple of us, we said, you know, we're going to make him wish he was dead. So that's what we did for Larry seven days a week. The next door neighbor, a man by the name of Mr. Hobbs. Shorty Hobbs. He hated Carl. He allowed us to sit at his house and go over to wolf's house in the middle of the night and just throw rocks on his roof all night long. Rocks. Rocks. And when he would come out, he always had a gun. He'd come out and then we'd blast him with a spotlight. And then we'd start throwing rocks at him and shit. And he'd run back in the house. But that went on seven days a week, every day. We haunted him every chance we could.
- [10:39]
C
The plan to kill him, how detailed was it?
- [10:44]
B
Yeah, it was completely detailed. We cased his habits. We sat in the bushes right next to his driveway. He would pull in at night and he would. It was funny. His garage was open, but he wouldn't pull into the garage. Almost like he felt like he'd be too confined in there. He'd stop outside, he'd get out with a gun. And we were like five, six feet from him in the bushes. And so we were just seeing if he did the same thing every night. So we knew, even with a gun, the minute he turned his back, that we would jump him, take him down, take the gun out of his hands, drag him into the garage, pull the door down, zip tie him. Our plan was, if he didn't talk right away, Would be to put him in the trunk of the car Just like he did to Dolores. And we had a location that was no way in God's green earth that anybody would ever know where he was at. The tips that we got from this person Was that the reason people get caught when they bury a body Is because they get in a hurry and they only bury it two feet down, three feet down, and eventually the weather and animals dig it up, right? This person told us, you go six to seven feet down, and as you throw a foot of dirt back. Back on the. On the body, you tamp it down with a tamper to get the air out of the dirt. And that way there is no collapsing at the top. Like we've all seen, like, with holes in our backyard when we recover them. And then the dirt will be completely settled. And what we're going to do, we was going to bury him, leave his head open and just tell him anytime you want to tell us. If he wouldn't tell us by then, he wasn't going to tell anybody. Because if we. Once we did that, that's what we told each other. We said, once we go this far, we have to know that we got to finish because he'll go the law on us. And so we planned on finishing. He had it coming. I have feel no remorse now. I wouldn't felt no remorse then because he killed our cousin. He deserved to die. You know that's how we felt.
- [12:47]
A
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- [15:22]
D
You know, obviously it never got to that point where you went that far. You know, you told us it was, you were stand down, stand down. But did it ever resurface as a possibility, you know, months later or years later or. At what point did you fully take that plan off the table?
- [15:38]
B
I'll be honest with you. We, the younger people involved, myself and my nephew and, and we had another cousin who was our, we call him our explosives expert. He used to make Molotov cocktails for us. I was willing to go at any point in any time. But once it got to a point where everybody started, you know, we're not going to ever find our body if we kill him. And we allowed Matthew and my sister, who want, believe me, they both wanted them dead. I'm not saying they didn't. But their desire to bring her home, bury her with her parents and with Matthew now and right next to my parents and on and on and on became the ultimate goal. They basically told us, we don't want you guys to do this to them as much as we don't care if even to die. Finding a body is the most important thing. And we gave that respect because like I say, they were the older generation, we were younger and it was Matthew's sister. And so we let him have that final. Yeah, we followed his decision. So that, that's what we did, you know. Yeah. And to this day it burns my crop because the day I found out that Dolores body was found, my sister said, I wish Wolf was alive now so we could kick him over in his wheelchair and stomp on his throat. And I said, funny how we think alike. I guess me and my sister thought like I was thinking the same thing, you know.
- [17:03]
C
I want to go back to before she went missing and all of the suspicions and the threats that were made while she was alive. If you can think back to your mindset back then, what did you think was the natural progression of how things were going given what you knew about their relationship? Because I think that's where some people are. Wow, they were so on top of this after she went missing. Why couldn't they have done something while she was alive?
- [17:29]
B
Well, because we offered over and over and over. You know, there was one incident, for example, where she was in my sister Mary's house, which was right behind my parents house. I had went over there after work and I saw Dolores car parked out front. And I said, what's going on mom? And she goes, I don't know. Dolores has Paul with her and she just walked by the side of my parents house back to see Mary and it looked like she was upset about something. A few minutes later my nephew Tony got off work. He came over and he saw my car there and he goes, what's up? And I go, well so we were waiting because we were like, you know, this talking about your marriage stuff, you know, she wouldn't especially, we were young at that time and nobody wants to talk about their marriage to a 21 year old kid. Right after about a half an hour I said mom, we're going to go back there. Because they had long enough to talk. And so we went back there and she was crying, crying and stuff. And Mary had told her over and over and over, he's going to kill you Dolores, stop going back. You have all the protection you need in this family. You have the guys around here. Wolf won't come around and the guys will make sure of that. And Dolores kept saying, you know what though, he's fine when he's sober but blah, blah, blah, you know, the same old thing over and over when he's drunk, he's, when he treats me bad. But we already knew that at that point that he had girlfriends on the side. That's what we, yeah, we offered, we offered that day in specific. Me and Tony went back there. I said Dolores, me and Tony will go out to his house, to your house right now and we will tell him that if you promise to stay here so we can protect you, that if he comes around there's going to be a lot of problems, he's going to be hurt really bad, like really bad. I said we'll go out there right now. And Dolores is like please, please I beg you, don't go. I can't leave, I have to. My is my kids home. We couldn't go out and pulverize the guy and then have her go back to him because then what was he going to do to her, you know what I'm saying? And we kept saying just don't go, stay here. And we would have went out there, had a chat with them and if the chat didn't work maybe it would have been beyond chatting but he would have knew he already wouldn't come. Or like he wouldn't stop at my parents house. He would drive by but he wouldn't stop. But still she wouldn't stop, she wouldn't stop going back. So we were, we kept saying don't go, you have all the protection you need. But she kept going back. And there was one incident that I think because there were so many. I thought of later at a New Year's Eve party the year before she disappeared. And he was drunk and Dolores and Paul were at my brother in law's sister's house and we were all partying and dancing and all of a sudden knock on the door. We didn't know Wolf was outside in the car, he wouldn't come in. He comes up and says, Dolores, you're leaving. You and Paul, get him out here, we're leaving. And Dolores says, well no, you're drunk, we're not going to get in the car with you. My brother in law Johnny again, the same way I wanted to beat his ass from before, grabbed Wolf and threw him out the front door. And he stumbled out onto the grass and Johnny was right behind him. He was going to lay it on him. I saw what was going on just when Johnny grabbed him. So I went out. So I was going to join in the party, you know, and add a few cents to it and who comes running his rescue? Frickin Dolores. Please don't hurt him, please don't hurt him. He's drunk and you know, if he could have got just one good beating, believe me, he would have thought twice about ever coming around again. But she wouldn't let us do it. And so that's why, you know, we were caught between Dolores and then once he disappeared, needing that body more important than in him being dead. And it was a really frustrating time for us. I know we were young and full of zip and zeal but it was a real frustrating time. So that's why the all out attack on him started.
- [21:22]
C
And so really what happened for you, looking back on it was not a surprise like this was heading down this path.
- [21:31]
B
No, My wife picked me up at work the day that we couldn't find her. And my wife picks up, I get in the car and she goes, we can't find Dolores. I said, she's dead. My wife goes, you think so? I go, no, I know so, she's dead. He killed her. And that was within 30 seconds of being told that we couldn't find her. And nobody's seen her again for 41 years. You know.
- [21:54]
A
Right.
- [21:55]
D
Tony, this is also something we've talked about in the past a little bit was the involvement of the district attorney. Right. Rick Gilbert was the DA at the time. We had him on the show. And you texted us during the show. A lot of your anger with him still burns pretty hot to this day. When you heard from Rick during the show, what did you make of his version of events and kind of put that into context for us as how you, as how you received it during the show.
- [22:22]
B
Well, I think he did a lot of groveling about, man. Would have, should have, could and maybe I should have went ahead. You know, it looks like probably I should have went ahead. And that's all we, you know, if he would went and just tried, he would have had friends. We would have been on his side because we told Rick Gilbert the last time we met with him, you try and if you don't get the results we want, the family will take care of things from there. We'll be 100% on your side. He got up and left. You know, he didn't want to hear that. And so he was, you know, did a lot of groveling in your thing. You know, maybe I should have maybe looking back and this whole thing about, oh, you know, if any family member want to talk to me, dude, it's way beyond that, dude. You know, I think he was strictly trying to not have any losses on his belt because he wanted to be a judge. And I think he was looking at moving up, you know, and I would have nothing positive to say to the guy. So, yeah, there'd be no use talking to him.
- [23:30]
A
So my wife Laura and I just ordered our first two articles of clothing from quints.
- [23:35]
B
We did.
- [23:36]
A
Want to tell me what you got?
- [23:37]
B
I got a really beautiful linen dress. It's a spaghetti strap. It fits really beautifully, cut really well to my curves and I just feel great when I'm wearing it.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah. And I got this merino wool sweater. It's super soft and I can't wait to wear it. Especially as our fall temperatures are starting to drop a little bit even in Texas. We're going to be so cozy this fall.
- [24:02]
B
It's a really handsome sweater and you're going to look great in it.
- [24:05]
A
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- [25:53]
C
You know, Tony, one thing that we presented in the podcast was your first impressions of Carl and how initially, you know, you liked him and he was part of the family and he was kind of one of the guys. And I think we tried to cover this a bit, you know, with you and some of the others who knew him, but what do you think really happened to him so that he became who he became? I mean, we had his kids weighing in on it, but you actually knew him and, and were kind of a peer of his and saw the progression happen. What do you think occurred kind of inside his mind? If you can you speculate?
- [26:27]
B
You know, I, I think exactly what happened to him. I think he was a very ambitious guy and started out, he bought the gas station, the mobile station down main street in Woodland and didn't go very well. You know, he actually was in business for several years. I think my sisters told me he was in business for seven, eight years at the mobile station and then things, you know, obviously they didn't work out. And then he bought a U Haul dealership and that's where the U Haul famous U haul blanket with the blood on it came from. And you know, I think he's a very ambitious guy who was, you know, he was part of the guys, you know, my sisters triple dated with, like I told you with him and Dolores. I remember when we were kids, we'd be playing football out on the grass and he'd always want to come out and be the all time quarterback. He played basketball with us. And so I think between that and then alcoholism, you know, beating on his brain, maybe his lack of success. He was in a chamber of commerce guy. And I think he looked at himself as being better than the average guy and what's wrong with me? You know? And I think that really it was a combination of. Of a failure in becoming this high earner that. That he wanted to be. And then he starts drinking, alcoholism, and then he started the girlfriends on the side. And I think I told you guys this story about it was the house prior to the house on Hillcrest and that battery. And he was supposed to give me a ride home because it was Sunday night, I had school the next day. The Lord says, well, you got to get Tony home. And he said, all right, all right, I know what I can do. He went down to the Jergers, the guys that used to come around, deliver your milk on your front porch, and they had those dairy trucks, they had a whole fleet of them. So he goes, come on, Tony, I'm get you home. So here I go, walking down a road, pitch dark, I'm finding ironically, or I'm walking with a future killer. I was probably 12, 13 at the time. And I go, oh, how do you get in here, Carl? He goes, oh, don't worry, I got a key to get in here. I'm thinking, wow, this is a private business. And he's got a key to get in here. And then on top of that, he. We jump. He walks over and he goes, come on, Gideon. And I go in a milk truck. He goes, yeah, yeah, I'm giving you a ride home. Gave me a ride home in a milk truck. The whole time I remember thinking, how the hell did he. And I remember ask like, Carl Jr, should dad do business with him or what? And Carly would be like, no, not that I know of. I'm thinking, well, that motherfucker has a key to get in. Because he not only jumped. Went in the gate, but he jumped in their milk truck and gave me a ride home. So he was always the kind of guy that had a way, you know, he just had a way of doing things a little more unorthodox, you know, at the end. I remember many times we sat around and talked after he had killed Dolores. And people talked about stuff, you know, like the. The story of the peephole in the women's bathroom at his mobile station. Those were all things my sister told me about. And those were all. And we were like, wow. Even though we thought this guy was a nice guy and reasonably normal, deep down inside, he always had these little rotten ways about him.
- [29:34]
C
You know, you know, Tony, at the end of the series, we talked to a number of people about what it was like to hear what really happened and to get the full story of, you know, how her body was discovered initially and then where it was put and obviously the work that Kenny and others did to identify her. How did you feel, you having been there for really everything, when you found out the truth about what had happened to her?
- [30:02]
B
You know, it's kind of funny the event where there was that first time we all met in person at her celebration. It's kind of funny now because we've become such good friends, you know, like all of us with Kenny and Beth. But I didn't want to talk to them. People were like, hey, those are the guys. The night before we had a pre party to the big event. And they were like, oh, those are the plea. And I was like, you know, right now I don't even want to talk to cops. Because I hadn't heard the whole story yet. I had heard he was involved, but how personally he took it and everything. But at that point they were like, don't you want to go? And I was like, no, I don't. I don't. I don't even talk to police officers right now. Because we were really. Some of us in my family were very anti law enforcement because we had been screwed so bad by them. And I didn't have no interest in meeting Kenny. And then as time went along, I heard started hearing more story about how personally involved he was. And my attitude obviously changed. You know, I think the world of the guy.
- [30:56]
C
And how has that sort of changed over time? If it has just with a few years to kind of look back on everything.
- [31:03]
B
Yeah, much different, obviously with Kenny. Much different. I mean, here I. I chat with them almost daily on Facebook and stuff. Him and his wife just joking around, you know, and the guy's a hero as far as I'm concerned. Law enforcement in general. Yeah, I've been able to cool my heels a little bit with them in general, a little bit. Even though, you know, it's not like I have contact with law enforcement very often, but my overall view, you know, has improved on. But the whole thing with Kenny was just an amazing guy who. And if we had had a Kenny in yolo county those 48 days and that body was found, he would have found out. He would have said, there's a body found in Solano County. But Ron was a little. Kind of a quiet guy, wasn't the most talkative. But my sister knew Ron well, from working for the county. And she talked to him a lot. And he always said, no, no, no, no, no. We have Dolores name in every possible law enforcement office for 200 miles. If there is anything found, we will be told. And that just wasn't the case, you know, that just wasn't the case. The way they just said, eh, stick around a hole, you know, we don't know who she is.
- [32:17]
D
I'll jump into one thing just to add some context to the way it was handled coming out of Benicia is that even Kenny said, right. That there was no. There's no record of any sort of outreach from Benicia police. There was nothing.
- [32:31]
B
Right.
- [32:32]
D
That showed up in the local newspaper. I mean, I went down to the. And looked through the newspaper archives. Right. To see if it was ever published in a local crime blotter or anything like that. And based on all the research we've done is that there wasn't anything that was ever sent from Benicia, from Solano county that made the neighboring law enforcement agencies aware that a body had been found. It was almost like the body was discovered. There was a jurisdictional battle between the Coast Guard and the county and the city. And then there was. It kind of just went to die at that point. So I'm wondering if, you know, if Ron would have. It would have been possible for him to be aware. Right. Or if that kind of onus falls back on the agencies that that kind of were had the custody of her body.
- [33:14]
B
Yeah, I agree. I know. I agree. I'm not saying it's 100% Ron's fault, but I think we were scouring. We would scour newspapers. My sister would call and say, hey, they found a body over in Sacramento. And we never really suspected that that was the direction Wolf would have took her, even though. If he took her out to the deep water channels. But every time we did have a body, we were on the phone making phone calls, phone calls, phone calls. And finding out if there was, you know, any identification. And. And so you'd think that they would have said, you know what, There'd been a few bodies found. There was one that was in the. In the deep water channel. And. And, you know, maybe we should at least contact the family. Even though they didn't have the DNA then possibly for a birthmark, something or somebody in the family could have said just anything. Something. And for it to just go frozen for 41 years, it just. Yeah, no, I'm not saying it would have been easy, but sure, like I said, I guess we're spoiled by a guy like Kenny because Kenny is that cop that gets the job done. And there's one Kenny Hart. And I guess we couldn't expect every cop to be like Kenny Hart.
- [34:24]
C
You know, Tony, just last thing. Yeah. Obviously, the podcast itself is really about the case, and everything happened that led to the identification, but we also wanted to do this to shine a light on Dolores as a person, and you were obviously able to get to know her as her cousin. What should people know that maybe we didn't cover or that you would want people to know just about what type of person she was.
- [34:47]
B
She was the kind of person. She was just like her mom, you know, my aunt. Exactly the same. She just. She was welcoming at any point. She used to make really good spaghetti. I always loved her spaghetti. So if she invited us to stay the night, I'd say, are we having spaghetti? And you know what? She was kind of person that would say, you want spaghetti? That's what we'll have. She just, you know, she was that person. And, you know, a lot of times I say, well, like when you watch a dateline or something, and it's that same type of person like Dolores, that ends up the victim. And you always say, but because it's that personality that, you know, I'm not leaving. This is my family. This is my life. I'm not going nowhere. And that's what gets them killed. And after we got her murdered, and that's why when I told you guys, you know, we weren't feeling guilty, we were pissed off and wanted revenge because we told her and told her and told her, don't go. And she knew. She knew very well we all were willing to take care of Wolf. And she knew that. But it was that same type of personality. She was just a loving, giving person who, like you say, if you said you, I'll stay the night if you have spaghetti, she'd say, well, we'll have spaghetti. And that was her in a nutshell. She was just a genuine, nice person. You know, there were many times when Carl would act like an idiot and Dolores would say, carl, you're just kids. Shut up. So there were times I heard her stand up to Carl, but maybe just not enough. Just not enough. You know, that person that you hear described by everybody else that covers her, she was just a genuine, sweet soul of a person, you know, I mean, I don't know. It's hard to go any further than that, you know, no doubt.
- [36:37]
C
Well, and you knew her well, Tony. And certainly we enjoyed getting to know you throughout this process, even though it was a difficult story to tell, and certainly appreciate all your help and and obviously for joining us today to talk about this. The Unforgotten is a Free range production. Season 3 Finding Dolores Wolf is written and hosted by Kyle Bonagura and me, Adam Rittenberg. The story is edited and produced by Wes Ferguson, the executive producer at Free Range. Audio editing by Aislin Gaddis Audio production and sound design by Austin Sisler with Eastside Studios in Austin, Texas. Special thanks to ESPN Foreign.
- [37:25]
A
Hey, I'm Wes Ferguson, executive producer of the Unforgotten. Every season of the Unforgotten is a deep dive into an unresolved case, like a murder or a lot of murders or some miscarriage of justice. These are stories that matter to us, and with your support, we shine a light on them. Here's a sneak peek at season two, Unnatural Causes, just in case you missed it.
- [37:48]
E
Think about a loved one you've lost, maybe a grandmother or your father or a beloved aunt. You believe the end was peaceful and painless. You've planned the funeral, made sure the estate was settled. You've moved belongings into storage or sold them or said final goodbyes on the curb. Now imagine you get a call as much as two years later, later, police want you to come to the station. They say what you were told about the death was wrong. They want to add your loved one's name to a list of murder victims. That's the terrible reality that at least two dozen families are facing today. My name is Charlie Scudder. I'm a journalist who's been covering this case for five years. Together, we'll do what the police, medical examiners, senior living facilities, and more either failed or refused to string together evidence that points to systemic flaws in how we care for our older loved ones. You'll hear about a man who used the cracks in that system to become the worst serial killer in Dallas history. This is Unnatural Causes, season two of the Unforgotten. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.