The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: A Messy Conversation About Divorce
Date: January 21, 2026
Hosts: Matt & Abby Howard

Overview

In this episode, Matt and Abby, high school sweethearts and married parents of two, dive into a raw and candid discussion about divorce. They explore the stigma, statistics, personal anxieties, and realities of marriage, separation, and the importance of commitment. Drawing on research, personal anecdotes, expert advice, and listener questions, the couple openly discusses not only divorce, but also what makes marriage resilient, the impact of life stages and careers, and how they themselves navigate marital challenges.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Open Conversations About Divorce

• [01:46] Matt: "We're not getting divorced, guys. We're just having a conversation about it, which I think is actually so important to have these conversations in marriage because if you avoid uncomfortable conversations in your marriage, it’s just going to grow like a disconnect between you."
• Marriage isn’t off-limits for tough conversations – avoiding them leads to more problems.

Divorce Statistics and Trends

• Under-25 Marriages:
  • [00:29, 02:15] Stat: Getting married under the age of 25 brings a 25% higher risk of divorce.
  • Abby asks if this would influence how they advise their sons about marriage timing.
• Cohabitation:
  • [02:30] Research shows couples who live together before marriage may have a higher chance of splitting.
• Average Marriage Duration:
  • [04:57] U.S. marriages ending in divorce typically last 8 years.
  • [05:13] 2/3 of divorces are initiated by women, surprising both hosts.
• Infidelity:
  • [05:57] Men are more likely to cheat in general, but women 18-29 are more likely than men their age.
• Divorce Month:
  • [04:25] January is known as “Divorce Month” — post-holiday stress commonly leads to a spike in filings.

Factors That Impact Marriage Longevity

• Willingness to Work On It
  • [03:18] Abby: “The determining factor on whether or not you stay married boils down to whether or not you both are willing to work on it.”
• Life Stages & “Hard Seasons”
  • [14:26, 16:22] Breakdown of hard marriage phases:
    • Year 1–2: End of honeymoon, reality sets in.
    • Years 3–5: Financial and family planning stress.
    • Years 5–8: Parenting, work-life balance, and “seven-year itch.”
    • Year 10: Peak dissatisfaction, especially among overwhelmed parents.
• Need for Therapy
  • [15:29] Abby: “I don’t think everyone needs as much therapy as we need, but I think it’s because of our occupation that we need to be safeguarding [our marriage].”
• The Changing Nature of Marriage
  • [21:59] Whenever a major life event happens (kids, moves, losses), “A new marriage is starting. You have to rebuild your marriage.”

Conflict & Resolution Techniques

• [09:35–11:02] Abby recounts a recent marital conflict and the importance of the "resolution muscle":
  • Use of space to cool down, followed by open and quick reconciliation.
  • Matt: "We laughed together." Abby: "I really love when we are able to...overcome a conflict with laughter."
• Gottman Institute Principle [11:05]: Rekindling love and resolving conflict with laughter ties to marital happiness.

The Role of Gender, Culture & Society

• Initiation & Cheating
  • Surprise at women initiating majority of divorces ([05:13]) and stats on who cheats more, varying by age ([05:57]).
• Society & Social Media
  • [51:18-52:46] Abby and Matt highlight how social media comments encourage splitting and normalize divorce:
    • "People are just so quick to just be like, leave him.” — Abby [00:20]
    • Matt: “If I had a dollar for every comment…to leave me, I’d have a lot of dollars.” [00:22]
• Influencer/Reality TV Divorces
  • [32:34-33:31, 60:16-61:30] Careers in the public eye (social media, reality TV) correlate with higher divorce rates due to external scrutiny and stress.

Career Impacts on Divorce

• High-Risk Professions
  • [33:45-38:14] Occupations with higher divorce rates: bartenders, military supervisors, healthcare workers, gaming/casino workers, flight attendants, telemarketers, dancers.
  • Major stressors: irregular hours, stressful environments, prolonged separations, and job dissatisfaction.

Rebuilding & Prioritizing the Marriage

• “Put Marriage First”
  • [23:37-24:04, 39:59] Both emphasize prioritizing each other above their children to maintain a strong partnership and model a healthy relationship for their kids.
• Perspective & Memory
  • [28:00] Matt recommends looking back at happy memories to “put everything in perspective...this can be you again.” Not being able to remember good days is a sign marriages are ending.

Listener Q&A & Relationship Advice

• Relighting the Spark:
  • [58:13] Abby: “Fake it till you make it. Sometimes when we're mad at each other...we'll play a card game together.”
• On Separating Before Divorce:
  • [61:30] Both agree separation can facilitate reflection and healing.
• Getting Back Together Post-Divorce:
  • [59:44] Matt: “Absolutely not [wrong]. If you think you can work it out, oh my gosh, go back. But...make some changes.”
• Financial Safeguards:
  • [61:44] On divorcing with gambling debts, Matt recommends cutting credit and getting professional help.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Willingness to Work:

• Abby: "The determining factor on whether or not you stay married boils down to whether or not you both are willing to work on it." [03:18]

On Social Media & Outsider Opinions:

• Matt: "If I had a dollar for every comment...that told you to leave me, I would have a lot of dollars." [00:22]
• Abby: "People are just so quick to just be like, leave him." [00:20]

On the Fluctuations of Marriage:

• Abby: "Every time you have a new kid...anytime something big happens in your life, that marriage is done. A new marriage is starting." [21:59]

On Conflict Resolution:

• Abby: "The most important muscle you can exercise in a marriage is the resolution muscle. Every little conflict can be...a little fracture in the marriage" [08:36]

On Life vs. Marriage Difficulties:

• Matt: "Life is hard. Marriage isn’t hard." [37:57]

On Commitment vs. Compatibility:

• Abby: "What matters is that we've committed to each other, and through that commitment, we're also shaping one another and therefore becoming more compatible." [54:35]

Important Timestamps

• [00:20] – Social media and quick judgments (“leave him” comments)
• [01:46] – Starting the messy, honest divorce discussion
• [04:25] – January as “divorce month” and why post-holiday divorce rates spike
• [05:44] – Statistical breakdown of divorce (average duration, who initiates, who cheats more)
• [09:35-11:02] – Personal story of recent marital conflict and resolution
• [14:26-21:18] – Marriage hard periods: 1-2 yrs, 3-5 yrs, 5-8 yrs, and 10+ discussion
• [23:37-24:04] – The importance of putting your spouse first, even above children
• [28:00] – Rewatching happy old videos to keep perspective
• [32:34-33:31] – Reality TV/social media effect on marriage
• [39:15] – “Gray divorce” stats (divorce 50+ and 65+ surging)
• [41:44] – Marriage increases likelihood of thriving and happiness (statistics)
• [45:02-55:57] – “Agree to Disagree” segment (debating common marriage/divorce takes)
• [58:13] – Listener Qs: “relighting the spark” and reconciling after divorce
• [61:44] – Dealing with financial issues/divorce (e.g., gambling debts)
• [62:29] – “Have you ever considered divorce?” and the role of emotions

Additional Insights & Tone

• Playful, candid, and sometimes self-deprecating: Both hosts share their vulnerabilities and laugh at themselves (“I was being a monster for about an hour and a half” [10:01]), and joke about the realities of their careers.
• Research-driven: They cite studies, experts (Arthur Brooks, John Deloney, Tony Robbins), and frequently clarify sources aren’t always experts.
• Balance of realism and optimism: While acknowledging marriage is tough and divorce happens, both return to the idea that commitment, shared growth, and willingness to work through stages is key ("Marriage is not unrealistic because people change; it grows stronger because people change”). [56:41]

Takeaways for Listeners

• Have uncomfortable conversations: Talking about difficult topics strengthens marriage.
• Invest in the “resolution muscle”: Frequent, small resolutions prevent larger fractures.
• Life is harder than marriage: Challenges come from outside circumstances, not the institution itself.
• Commitment supersedes compatibility: Staying and growing together beats searching for “the perfect fit.”
• Protect your marriage intentionally, especially in public careers.
• Prioritize your partner, not just your kids or career.

If you haven’t listened, this episode will give you honest, research-based, and personal perspectives on why marriages succeed, why they fail, and how to navigate hard seasons together with humor, hard work, and commitment.