Remembering our daughter, the due date & our first marriage conference

Summary

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The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: Approaching Her Due Date, Remembering Our Daughter & Our First Marriage Conference
Release Date: March 4, 2026
Hosts: Matt & Abby Howard
Location: Phoenix, AZ

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt episode, Matt and Abby reflect on the days approaching what would have been their daughter Emerson’s due date. They share personal insights on grief and healing after losing Emerson to a late-term miscarriage, discuss attending their first marriage conference, and open up about how their experiences have shifted their perspectives on family, relationships, and coping with loss. There’s also a lighter touch as they share snippets from life with their two boys, highlights from a recent carnival, and even a movie review. The tone is honest, raw, and deeply relatable, offering comfort and solidarity for anyone traversing similar journeys.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Living with Grief: Approaching Emerson’s Due Date

• Abby opens up about the emotional challenge as Emerson’s due date passes (32:13–34:55):

  • Sharing her daughter’s name publicly for the first time (Emerson Nicole), and the significance behind it.
  • The importance of honoring and remembering Emerson as part of the family, paralleling what they did for their sons.
  • Practical memorial ideas, like special locations, meaningful objects (Emerson bunnies), tattoos, and artwork.
  • Advice to others: Take the grief journey at your own pace—there's no “right” timetable for making meaning.

  Memorable Quote:

  "Her humanity is what makes her loss...so painful, you know, because it wasn't... I'm not just grieving a pregnancy. I'm grieving a human." — Abby (33:20)

• Discussing ways to remember:

  • Rainbow sightings after their loss as a tender family symbol (37:56).
  • Abby’s advice on handling milestone days and supporting children through loss.
  • The ongoing challenge: “The grief journey...is not linear...there's just no way. It's never gonna not be hard.” (45:22–45:50)

2. Navigating Emotional and Practical Realities of Miscarriage

• Honesty about pain and healing:

  • How sharing their story publicly has been part of their healing (49:30–50:57).
  • The duality of moving forward and carrying their daughter's memory: “We just carry the grief with us as we do the next right thing.” — Abby (50:51)

  Notable Moment:

  "Anyone that's sick of hearing about it — move on. It's not for you." — Abby (49:30)

• Supporting those grieving:

  • Friends and family brought treats and comfort on milestone dates—ice cream, cookies, surprise dances on the security camera—as small but meaningful gestures (43:38–44:29).
  • The role of therapy — individual, couples, and community as vital resources for making sense of loss (46:56–47:55).
  • Recommendations for support organizations:
    • Pregnancy and Infant Loss Support Center
    • Postpartum Support International (56:01)

3. Marriage, Money and the First Conference Experience

• Attending the Money and Marriage conference with Ramsey Solutions (04:00–09:04):

  • Insights from the event—learning to recognize “the story I’m choosing to tell myself” during marital conflict as a powerful tool.
  • New routines: Using the Together App for daily marriage prompts, e.g., 30-second hug (06:59–07:28).
  • Budgeting takeaways and candid confessions about personal spending habits (08:20–10:19).
  • Matt’s ambition to pay off the family home and inspiration from witnessing debt-free screams at Ramsey’s event (11:28–12:53).

  Memorable Exchange:

  Abby: “That does not count. You mean what a freaking pile of horse crap.”
  Matt: “Wait, Abby. A house? Houses are like the most expensive line item...” (10:32–10:42)

4. Family Life Updates: Carnivals, Skateboarding, & Parenting Realities

• Stories from a family carnival—face painting, dunk tank, petting zoo, and the “joy” (and sugar rush) of the ice cream truck (13:04–17:30).
• Abby’s brother’s involvement with the Husband and Wife Law Team and his appearance in the dunk tank.
• The balance between routine (naps) and letting kids make memories (14:37–15:55).
• New traditions, including private skateboarding lessons for both toddlers (17:47–18:19).
• Choosing to prioritize experiences and local businesses, sometimes “budget free” (18:20–18:38).

5. Movie Moment: Wuthering Heights Review

• Matt & Abby’s candid reactions to a new adaptation of Wuthering Heights (20:05–29:37):

  • Trigger warning: Movie contains heavy themes that unexpectedly mirrored their grief experience (24:24–25:17).
  • The film’s depiction of loss—"it just felt like it ruined my day." — Abby (25:06)
  • Discussion on fidelity, communication in relationships, and the problematic romanticization of certain behaviors in media.

  Standout Quotes:

  “Infidelity — like, it was really sexy until she was married to another man. And then I was like, that's not sexy.” — Abby (26:28)
  “Once you're in the brother category, you can't get out of the box.” — Abby (27:34)

6. Parenting Reflections: Talking to Kids About Loss

• Age-appropriate approaches: Abby telling the boys that Emerson’s “body just stopped working” (42:34–43:04).
• Handling tough follow-up questions with honesty and simplicity (“One day, everyone's body stops working—hopefully after we’ve done a lot of things.” — Abby, 43:04)
• Encouraging openness about grief and making sure kids feel safe and involved in memory-making.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• On grieving a real person:

  "Her humanity is what makes her loss...so painful, you know… I'm grieving a daughter." – Abby (33:20)

• On grieving publicly:

  "Part of the meaning-making for me has been talking about it publicly… If anyone's sick of hearing about it, like, move on. It's not for you." – Abby (49:30)

• On budgeting and marital teamwork:

  "I wouldn't even give myself the word saver. But you're more spendy than I am." – Abby (09:04)

• On handling children’s questions about death:

  "Her body just stopped working… And then I said hopefully it's when we've lived… done a lot of things." – Abby (43:04)

• On empathy and the grief journey:

  "This grief journey...is not linear...you have so many good days… then you're just, like, freaking knocked back down." – Abby (45:22)

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Important Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 32:13–34:55: Abby shares daughter Emerson’s name, discusses memorializing her
• 37:56: Significance of rainbows & family artwork after loss
• 42:34–43:04: How they explain Emerson’s death to their children
• 49:30: Abby talks about meaning-making and sharing openly
• 04:00–09:04: Money and Marriage conference takeaways
• 13:04–17:30: Carnival, ice cream truck, and family moments
• 20:05–29:37: Wuthering Heights review, triggers and relationship themes

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Flow & Tone

Matt and Abby maintain their trademark warm, conversational, and unfiltered style—balanced between humor, vulnerability, and practical wisdom. The episode moves from playful banter and family anecdotes to moving reflections on loss, all the while modeling healthy communication and resilience as a couple.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a candid window into the complexities of loss, parenting, marriage, and meaning-making. Matt and Abby’s willingness to “bring listeners along” in both joyful and painful moments makes the Unplanned Podcast a rare space—especially when it comes to taboos around pregnancy loss, grief, and ongoing family life. Their advice, openness about therapy, and community calls-to-action round out a truly human, supportive episode for listeners in all seasons of family and healing.

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Transcript

[A]

I will never forget when I first started noticing symptoms of low iron, because I'm pretty sure my mom walked into her house and the first thing she said to me was, abby, what are you doing with your lips? Because she literally thought that I had put concealer all over my lips because I had no color to my face. I basically had no red blood cells functioning in my body. And it made sense when I went to the doctor and had that checked that I was actually even into the anemic zone at this point because I was so, so low on iron and a lot of other symptoms I was having started to make a lot more sense. I was having extreme tiredness, exhaustion, fogginess, headaches, all of this suffering from low iron. What I was surprised to find out though, is that over one in three people worldwide suffer from low iron, but most don't even know it. Iron deficiency can exist even before anemia develops, meaning you may feel symptoms long before anything looks serious.

[B]

Well, Abbey, correct me if I'm wrong, but we had a friend that you noticed wasn't feeling well and you suggested that they take some iron and immediately they were feeling better, right?

[A]

Yeah. The next day she's like, I actually already am feeling different. And then obviously weeks later is when it really gets into your system and you feel like a whole new person, honestly.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

That's P H A R M A N u t r a-us.com promote promo code unplanned. Her memory comes with us everywhere and there's reminders of her everywhere and parts of like the day that we met her hump still doesn't get easier. Part of the meaning making for me has been talking about it publicly. This has been very healing for me. Anyone that's sick of hearing about it, like, move on, it's not for you because I kind of was still hanging on to, like, this separate life where I was, like, still pregnant. We were going to announce her name on her birthday and stuff. And so now that we've passed that date, like, it's okay in my mind. I mean, I don't care if we keep it. What's up, dudes?

[B]

And welcome back to Unplanned.

[A]

Here we are again. We're back, guys, on the blue couch.

[B]

And you guys are still here. Thanks for being here. Still. We've been doing this for three years. I can't believe that.

[A]

And especially thank you to those of you that are choosing to give us a good rating and review.

[B]

Yeah, the people that are still leaving reviews on Apple podcasts and Spotify and commenting on YouTube.

[A]

It's still really important. And like I said on Always Here, if you don't listen to Always Here, which you probably should, it comes out on Friday mornings. So you have plenty of time between Wednesday and Friday to listen to both of them. But what I say is that it doesn't just benefit Matt and I. There's, like, a whole team working on putting these shows up, and they're closely following how these episodes perform, how you guys are perceiving them. So for them, too, I really appreciate you engaging in that way with our content. And I'm especially wanting to shout out Hannah Vick today. She gave us five stars, which was so kind, so generous.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And said, love this podcast. This is my comfort podcast. Whether I'm working out, getting some work done at home. I love listening to this. A young wife. I love hearing the authenticity and realness.

[B]

Thank you for everyone that left nice reviews. That means a lot.

[A]

Well, here we are.

[B]

Here we are. We're married. We're.

[A]

We're still married.

[B]

We're still married.

[A]

Why are you being so awkward?

[B]

I don't know why I'm being awkward.

[A]

Try that again.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, we're married. Why you say that?

[B]

You. You leave. You leave the episode.

[A]

You take it over episodes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Matt just has to act awkward.

[B]

Okay. I'm weird.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay, you go.

[A]

Valentine's Day weekend was recently a weekend. Wow, that feels like a while ago, but it really wasn't that long ago. We went to Nashville for Valentine's Day. We went for an interview for this show. And then also we stayed a little bit later to attend the Money and Marriage conference with the Ramsey Solutions company.

[B]

And we were the youngest people there.

[A]

Yeah, we probably were.

[B]

Do you think we were? I think we were. I don't think there were. There probably wasn't a couple. Maybe there was. There could have been a couple younger than us. They took really good care of us. They put us in, like, the.

[A]

We were in platinum.

[B]

Platinum. It was nicer than vip.

[A]

They put us in platinum. They had amazing snacks for us.

[B]

Really good food and drinks. They took really good care of us.

[A]

I was a little worried about my attention span.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. I started to get antsy sitting still for so long. Maybe it's because my whole days, I never sit down. Do you understand this? This is the longest I ever sit down in my days. If we're happening to be recording a podcast that day.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

My butt is never in a chair that long.

[B]

Well, I felt bad because we were really close to the stage, and I take notes for everything on my phone. And then I would also get distracted and respond to messages, you know, over email or work messages. And then I'm like, I need to be better about, like, not doing that.

[A]

I don't know. I feel like we got some good stuff out of it, though. Some good takeaways.

[B]

There's a lot of. A lot of great teachings that we learned while we were there.

[A]

Yeah. What was your favorite?

[B]

I think the one. And this is. I'm kind of stealing this from you. But what I choose to tell my. The story I choose to my. The story that I'm still working on

[A]

it, guys, is the story I'm choosing

[B]

to tell myself is which, like, anytime you're having a conflict in your marriage, anytime there's anything that's, like, splitting you apart, you need to acknowledge the story that you're telling yourself. Right. Acknowledge the part that you're bringing to the table. Because oftentimes, I think, in conflict, it's easy to point fingers at the other person rather than say, the story that I'm choosing to tell myself is blank.

[A]

Well, I think the other thing, too, like, that's all true, and that was a good point you made. But also in, like, I think about. In our premarital counsel, what I think about in our premarital counseling, our counselor told us that the issue is not the issue.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I feel like it's. That same principle also kind of applies to this, where it's like, sometimes you could be telling your partner, hey, like, get off your phone, or things like that, but then it's like, you're not really getting to the deeper issue of why that's bothering you. And so this phrase, like, this line allows you to go that, like, step layer deeper right away where it's like, the story I'm choosing to tell myself is that you don't care about what I have to say.

[B]

What? No, I do care about what.

[A]

It's like, get off your phone. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, yeah, I think that was a good takeaway, a good line. We need to start practicing that more. Something else that I took away is I. I downloaded the Together app.

[B]

Oh, you downloaded the Together app.

[A]

And I used it on you yesterday.

[B]

That's John's app. John Deloney.

[A]

John Deloney Plug. I'm plugging it right now.

[B]

Thank you, John, for coming on our show. If you haven't seen that episode, it's a good one.

[A]

It's actually a really great app. I love it so far.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it gives you a prompt for something to do with your spouse every day. And I did a prompt on you yesterday. Do you know which?

[B]

You did it at like 10:45pm though.

[A]

No, no, no, that wasn't the prompt. No, no, no. That was an additional thing.

[B]

Oh, this was today?

[A]

No, it was yesterday.

[B]

Oh, wait, what did you. What was it think?

[A]

Is there anything that I did that was special?

[B]

I can't remember. I was too tired. I was like falling asleep.

[A]

No, it wasn't at night. I guess it was.

[B]

I can't remember. What? I don't know.

[A]

My prompt yesterday was to give you a 30 second hug and I gave you a 30 second hug. We do hug a lot, so maybe it didn't stand out.

[B]

Wait. Yeah, I don't remember. When was that?

[A]

I hugged you right after we put the kids to bed for 30 seconds. I literally held you and counted the whole time.

[B]

Wait. That's so sweet, Abby.

[A]

I thought, I love a task.

[B]

I thought you. You know, it's really funny now I'm remembering you hugging me last night.

[A]

And.

[B]

And you know how the Disney rule, the rule they make for cast members at Disney is you don't let go.

[A]

You didn't move. I was doing it.

[B]

I thought you were just like feeling really down because it's been a hard month. And so I just didn't let go because I was like, I'm not going to let go until you let go, man.

[A]

You always hold on until I let go. So you're like, man.

[B]

So I didn't know that was like a prompt. So that wasn't you reaching out.

[A]

I really did need a hug. But once I saw that, I was like, yeah, I want to hug. So I have another prompt I'm going to do on you tonight. Not in a naughty Way at all.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

Very good. It's not. It's very clean. It's very clean.

[B]

Wow. But, you know, speaking of this marriage and money conference we went to, we learned about budgeting and having monthly budget meetings, which I think you've. You were really excited about doing those. Right, babe.

[A]

And I actually was looking ahead. Our calendar. You put it on the calendar. But we're going to be in Flagstaff.

[B]

I know.

[A]

With our family. So we're certainly not going to.

[B]

So we need to adjust it. Right. So if it's not going to work, we have to plan ahead and say, hey, when can we adjust?

[A]

That's on you.

[B]

When can we adjust? No, it's on us.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Let's figure out the time. Okay. So the budget meeting can't happen while we're in flight.

[A]

What's ironic. This is that I'm not the spender in our relationship.

[B]

That's not true.

[A]

We actually agreed on that at the money conference. That I'm the saver. Okay. I wouldn't even give myself the word saver. But you're more spendy than I am.

[B]

Do you want to talk about what happened on Saturday? Sure, I'll talk about what happened on Saturday.

[A]

There is a few caveats to this. I should say. One is thrift store. I feel like at thrift stores, I get unlimited budget because it's a thrift store.

[B]

I just moved our monthly budget meeting.

[A]

That's a caveat for me.

[B]

By a week. So I moved it.

[A]

Groceries. I'm gonna spend what I need to spend on groceries. 3. Because I'm shopping at Walmart and Costco.

[B]

Wait, why are we bringing up groceries right now? Why is that.

[A]

That's at the spender on.

[B]

There's never been once where I've been like, whoa, babe, you spent too much on groceries.

[A]

I know you never said that about the thrift store either, but those are my things that I will go crazy.

[B]

I'll.

[A]

I'll just go out. I'll go crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Next is small businesses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Out the door. I don't care. I'm just like, It's. We got to support.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you found.

[B]

You found a local small business on Saturday you wanted to support.

[A]

I did some retail therapy. Yeah.

[B]

And so how much money?

[A]

$550. I'm sorry. I never do that.

[B]

Hey, you know what?

[A]

Did you. And I said, it's okay if I spend a lot of money today. And he said, depends on how much and what it's on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, clothes for me. And the kids and it's a small business. And $500. And you said sure. So we did talk about it. That's a budget meeting, in my opinion.

[B]

Okay, let me. Let me say this with caveat. I absolutely love our house. I love that we live here. I love our neighborhood. I love our community. I love it. But why I think you're the spender is I was team pay off our house.

[A]

That is not counting. That does not count. You mean what a freaking pile of horse crap.

[B]

Wait, Abby. A house? Houses are like the most expensive line

[A]

item on most people mean when they say spending the casual purchases.

[B]

Okay. It depends on what.

[A]

Like you agree to this at the conference. We need to go back to the conference. Honestly, we got to go back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And have another meeting. But I do anyway. Maybe we're running into some hiccups because we did leave the conference a little early.

[B]

We did. Do you want to say why we

[A]

left the Stark kids and I kind of got sad because I was like, it's Valentine's Day and I'm missing two of my Valentine's.

[B]

Which was. I'm glad we left early.

[A]

I miss them a lot. And I feel like my max is three nights away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we got there late on Wednesday and then we stayed Thursday and then we stayed Friday and left Saturday.

[B]

So, yeah, we did plenty of time. We did three nights there.

[A]

I was missing them by Thursday. Yeah, I was actually missing them. I cried before we left on Wednesday.

[B]

And our podcast with George Campbell was really good. I just hope that we can find the third video angle because we. Our team scrambling right now. We don't. We're missing one of the videos. But yeah, we did an interview with George Camel that went super well. I felt more motivated in that interview with George than ever to not use a credit card. Even though we never spend money that

[A]

we don't always use a credit card.

[B]

But, like, credit cards are so convenient. I'm just a huge fan of their no nonsense, no BS format for personal finance. I was very motivated, though, to pay off her house early.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rather. Rather than just, you know, sticking on the typical 30 year mortgage track.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to, like, really send it and see how quick we can pay off our house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So maybe that's. I think that's a goal that I have.

[A]

That is good.

[B]

I feel motivated.

[A]

Yeah. I honestly got teary eyed when I was watching some of those families do their debt free scream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It actually made me emotional.

[B]

It's cool.

[A]

Proud of them.

[B]

Me too. I mean, like, think about how Good it must feel to have no debt, nobody. Yeah. You had no student loans, no car payment, no house payment, nothing. You just own all your own stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then your time is your own. Then you can. You can spend your time how you want to spend it, and you don't have to work extra just to pay off stuff that you bought that you couldn't afford. You know, but obviously, a house is. I think if you have debt on a house, that's totally normal, that's totally cool. I mean, we have that. I don't know. I really don't know many people at all that have paid off their house, but that's the ultimate, like, feeling of freedom, in my opinion.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

To just own your house.

[A]

So, yeah, we did come back to see the kiddos. Had some heart pizzas with them on Valentine's day night. Had some chocolate covered strawberries. That was super fun.

[B]

We took our kids to a carnival yesterday, which was super fun. Both of our boys got their faces painted. They did some bounce house activities.

[A]

Well, we went to this carnival because my brother works for the husband and wife law firm here in Arizona. So if you live in Arizona, like, I. I guarantee you probably know that name. It's kind of fun that he, like, gets to do, like, some of their marketing.

[B]

Yeah, their. Their billboards are everywhere. If you ever drive, like, every said, if you ever drive through Arizona, you'll see billboards that say husband and life, husband and wife, law team.

[A]

They have fun social media, too.

[B]

And Blake, Abby's brother, got the opportunity to be in the dunk tub.

[A]

That was, like, our main motivation for going. Of course we want to go to support Blake in, like, his work event, but then also, like, he was gonna be in the dunk tank, and of course, Griffin and Augie were gonna think that was the best thing ever. They call my brother Coco.

[B]

I missed the dunk tank. Was it funny when our kids dunked him?

[A]

You weren't there.

[B]

I know because I was waiting in line for a barbecue.

[A]

So Blake was in the dunk tank, and then we were given a soft. Like, they gave our boys softballs. And of course, they're not gonna be able to throw it right on the trajectory and hard enough to knock him. So then Blake gave them permission, like, run up and hit the button, and you know that they were getting back in that line. They dunked him probably like, six to 10 times. It was so fun. And one time, the guy handed Griffin this big old softball and Griffin's little hands, and Griffin threw it, and the guy Turned around and at the exact same Chuck the duo back of the head of the saw.

[B]

How hard did he throw?

[A]

Not hard. Not hard at all. It's the reason it went straight up is because it kind of slipped out of his hand anyway, so it wasn't like going fast, but it was just funny.

[B]

Okay, genuine question for everyone listening. When your kids are having a great time at an event like a carnival, do you A, try to get them home on time for their nap so that they like actually nap and don't get super overtired, or B, let them stay as long as they want and sleep in the car?

[A]

I think it depends on their age. And I feel like they're at the age where they can stay as long as they want. But you were like, we need to go.

[B]

Well, okay. It was about.

[A]

Yeah, you were overstimulated.

[B]

I was overstimulated, I will give you that. But it was also about 2 o' clock and then we had a 30 minute drive home and they're. Which was gonna make them an hour and a half.

[A]

I finally skipping naps for one day and just putting them in bed early.

[B]

That's fair. So, yeah, I mean, we got. It was. It was hard getting the boys out because they did not want to leave.

[A]

They were having so much fun. I was like, just let them play. But I had. You were ready to go. So we left. But we did spend a lot of time there. They had a petting Z. They had. They got ice cream from the ice cream truck. They got Ninja Turtle ice creams. They had some good food and snacks. The bounce houses were great. I feel like if you would have stayed, Griffin would have loved doing that rock climbing wall.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was so cute. The. Our nephew C.J. came too. And so Griffin and Augie and C.J. went to get their face painted, which. How fun is that? They also had a photo booth and they got to pick out their own, like, face art. And Griffin, of course, got a tiger. Augie, of course got Spidey, and CJ got a butterfly. It was so sweet.

[B]

Which. Did you know that was Griffin's second time ever getting ice cream at an ice cream truck? I took him for the first time a few days ago. We were at the park and wow.

[A]

I bought them. I bought them ice cream before from an ice cream truck.

[B]

What you have?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, this is my first time.

[A]

They come in our neighborhood all the time.

[B]

They do. Yeah. So I.

[A]

So I hit up those playgrounds like crazy.

[B]

They do. No, they do. It's smart though, because Griffin and I were at the playground, and I'm like, griffin, do you hear that?

[A]

And he's like, yeah, there's something about the ice cream truck when it just happens. It's like they catch you on that, like, spontaneous thing where it feels like you hear it, they show up. It feels like, oh, it's meant to be. Like, we have to buy ice cream right now. And also, it just really is sad to tell your kid no to the ice cream truck.

[B]

Yeah, I was thinking about that because the popsicle that Griffin ended up getting was probably. Oh, Lord. Like, this thing might have had 100 grams of sugar in it. Like, it was just this massive. It was just this massive. You know, it's just. It's. I don't even know what you call it, but it's all decked out. It's decorated. It kind of looks like a rocket ship.

[A]

100 maybe.

[B]

Maybe closer to, like, 60 grams of sugar.

[A]

Seriously?

[B]

Oh, yeah. These things are loaded with sugar.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But it's just part of being a kid, you know? Like. Like, I had popsicles as a kid. I had ice cream as a kid. You can't, like, deprive your kid of the joy of the ice cream truck just because it has 60 grams of sugar. Now. You probably shouldn't get your kid ice cream truck popsicles or ice cream every day.

[A]

No, it's like, once a month. Not even, though.

[B]

But he was so happy. Like, he was just so, so happy. Like, he was skipping on the way over to the truck, and there was a bunch of other kids that were there, too.

[A]

So fun.

[B]

It's funny, though, because now you don't even need, like, I used to have to save quarters for the ice cream truck. That's what I would use to buy my ice cream is like, save a bunch of change.

[A]

Did you pay quarter?

[B]

I just used Apple Pay.

[A]

Yeah, Apple Pay.

[B]

They take Apple Pay. I used. I used our credit card on Apple Pay.

[A]

Anyway, don't tell Dave Ramsey that.

[B]

What are your thoughts on the fact that I got both of our toddlers private skateboarding lessons on?

[A]

That's so cute. We need to host those. Like, we host swimming lessons. We need to host skateboarding lessons. I think a lot of our friends would join in.

[B]

You think so? Yeah, tell your friends.

[A]

Is that guy interested in adding more kids?

[B]

He definitely is.

[A]

Oh, I already got, like, six signups.

[B]

Oh, seriously?

[A]

I'm not kidding.

[B]

We got to get it on the calendar, then text your friends, because he's already going to come back. I think I scheduled him for time like, in a month to come. But he could probably do like a two or three hour time slot if we have enough kids that could do a lesson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's perfect. I mean, they love. They love going back a little skateboard. Yeah. I think I need to go buy them a smaller skateboard because they're using a regular size one of the local. Yeah, there's a local skate shop here in Arizona. There's a bunch of local shops.

[A]

And then it's budget free.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Budget free. So you just. It's not even considered in the budget if you're supporting a local business.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

In my head, that's the thing, guys.

[A]

This is why I'm not in charge of the budget.

[B]

I'm excited for everyone to hear the interview we did with George Campbell and his wife Whitney. Oh, yeah. Because, like, Abby's out here.

[A]

Like, I'm like, it's okay to go in debt for Disney.

[B]

Don't say, like. If you're gonna say that in front of anybody, do not say it in front of George.

[A]

If I do anything, I am consistent.

[B]

Don't say it in front of Dave Ramsey's, like, people, you know.

[A]

Well, you know what? If anyone is gonna be able to convince me otherwise, it'd be them. So I think I gotta say it to them.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I feel like Dave Ramsey really is the arch enemy of credit card companies.

[A]

I know. You said when we were there that you were gonna say the ultimatum, like, have we paid off our house and this year then Dave has to come on our show and he never said it.

[B]

I need to pitch that to Dave. If anybody knows Dave, let him know that we will pay off our house and do a debt free screen.

[A]

He's really gonna care that we paid off borrow.

[B]

Yeah, he probably doesn't care, but in Ramsey Solutions, then we can interview him. If he says yes, we'll pitch it. We need to pitch it to George. At this point, we're just.

[A]

We do have fun interviews coming up, so.

[B]

We do. Yeah, we do. Wait, we do. What's the other.

[A]

Not fun, but, like, really?

[B]

Yeah. Cool. We have some wild ones coming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So thank you for everyone that keeps coming back.

[A]

I'm not trying to tease you, but I just want to make sure it happens before I say it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, because you never know. These things can always fall through. I hope not. This one's going to work. Yeah, these are going to work.

[B]

We're flying to Utah for it, so.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There'll be a little change. Of scenery.

[A]

You want to give your movie review of Wuthering Heights?

[B]

I feel like you should go first. You're really good at movie reviews.

[A]

I know. I feel like we had a whole debrief about this. I feel like we agreed. Well, first of all, it was very sensual with no nudity.

[B]

If you haven't heard of the new movie Wuthering Heights. Wuthering.

[A]

It's not weathering an adaptation.

[B]

You pronounce it Wuthering Heights.

[A]

I think it's Wuthering.

[B]

It's with Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi. Jacob Elordi, Yeah. Which apparently he's in a. In a show called the Kissing Booth with this other girl that people, Joey

[A]

King thought and I think that we

[B]

look like that and they would say people would comment on our tick tocks that they thought we are similar to the people from the Kissing Booth. Anyway, Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie are in the steamy ROM com. But it's also.

[A]

It's not a rom.

[B]

It's dark.

[A]

It's not a ROM com actually at all. Thank you to heel for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Matt, can you believe that we're already two months into 20?

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

Well, it just depends the time of day. I'm drinking the Strawberry Banana nutritionally complete Ready to Drink meal and I'm drinking

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[A]

Support for today's episode comes from Square. And they've got big news. During Square's biannual releases event, they launched a wave of innovative new tools to help local businesses run faster, smarter, and more profitably. From AI that answers your toughest business questions to tech that simplifies food orders and tracks every dollar. It's all live and it's built for businesses like yours. Whether you're starting fresh or scaling fast, Square helps you keep up and get ahead.

[B]

Our experience has been really cute with Square because we were buying hot chocolate and this third grader had Square. His dad hooked him up and wanted to support him doing his own hot chocolate business.

[A]

So you know what? They raked it in that season.

[B]

And it worked for them, too, because, I mean, with Square, you can pay with credit card and I never have. I never carry cash. Also, Square launched its most powerful tools yet, designed to give local businesses a competitive edge without the complexity. If you're ready to sell smarter, run faster, and stress less, right now you can get up to $200 off Square Hardware at square.com go/unplanned. That's sq u a r e dot com. Go unplanned. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. By the way, we're gonna get some spoilers to the book. So if you want to fast forward to the next talking points, that's totally cool because we're gonna spoil the end of the movie.

[A]

But here's the thing. It was written in 1847.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So if you haven't read the book

[A]

yet, we will still do the. With due respect, there will be spoilers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because there were some things different about the movie than the book.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that I would have actually probably liked to know.

[B]

So what was different about the movie was that the movie ended where the book is essentially halfway through. And that's where the main character dies and she dies, like, essentially while she's pregnant. So she. She miscarries and she dies and there's a lot of blood and it's super dark. And we didn't. I wish somebody would have, like, gave us a trigger warning because we just had no idea going into this.

[A]

I told so many people that we were going to go see this and I feel like any of our. If any of our friends had known like, that this was part of the movie, they would have said something. But no one. We were like the first of our friends to see it. And I was like, wow. Really was a terrible thing to watch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just so disturbing because. And here's the thing, too. I was really enjoying the movie. The movie was, like, great. It was, like, very steamy, but with no nudity. Great to watch with your spouse, like, I thought. Because I feel like guys would also think it's very entertaining. The soundtrack was amazing. The acting was really, really good. Everything about it was so good. And I was like, so. I was so invested. And then it got so disturbing with that element. It just felt like it ruined my day.

[B]

I feel like I just saw the color flush out of your face.

[A]

Yeah, the life drained out of me.

[B]

So that was a sucky way to end date night. It was a great date night up until that point. And then it was like, well, frick

[A]

did kind of ruin date night. Yeah, I couldn't really recover after that. Yeah, I feel like it didn't bother you in the way that it bothered me. Which probably makes sense, I think, when

[B]

you see, like, gosh, there's a really good book, the Wedding People that I got you, which again, like, another story where there's an element of pregnancy loss.

[A]

It's not as big as this one.

[B]

And, yeah, I don't know, like, it's sad. It's hard seeing all these stories where it's just like, not happy ending, a sad ending, like, over and over again, where it kind of like reinforces this idea of like, oh, once you miscarry, there's not gonna be a happy ending for you. That's probably why.

[A]

Well, she literally died.

[B]

Well, yeah, she freaking died in the movie.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that was the ending. That was literally the ending of the movie. Also, There was nothing else.

[B]

And this is so dark too. But, I mean, the book, at least. She still dies in the book. But her daughter lives in the book.

[A]

Okay, that's what I'm saying. You call this a rom com is psycho.

[B]

It's not a rom com. It's just. It's just.

[A]

It's a drama.

[B]

It's a romance. It's a romance, though.

[A]

Yes, but it's a tragedy.

[B]

You really didn't like how there was infidelity.

[A]

Infidelity, like, it was really sexy until she was married and to another man. And then I was like, that's not sexy.

[B]

Am I.

[A]

Am I never gonna be aroused by infidelity?

[B]

Am I a bad person that I was like rooting for them to get back together?

[A]

Ew.

[B]

Why is it. It's just like.

[A]

No, I think you're the majority.

[B]

They make you the. They make the. The antagonist. The protagonist in these types of movies.

[A]

My loyalty. Like.

[B]

Like when I watch Breaking Bad, I wanted Walter White to keep making meth. I was like, let's go, Walter.

[A]

He was ruining his family.

[B]

I know, but it's like when in the movies where the antagonist is the protagonist. I don't know why. I just want to share mine stronger

[A]

moral compass in you.

[B]

Maybe you do. You're probably a better person than me.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

But I. I do like these like I was anti hero movies though.

[A]

Well, the other thing that got me really taken out of it was the fact that they were like low key brother and sister.

[B]

That was a little.

[A]

So that was.

[B]

That was also not sexy. Not. Not related at all by blood. But yeah, it was weird that they're

[A]

like their step sibling situation.

[B]

They're like. Yeah, it's like their step siblings. They're like sharing a bed when they

[A]

were kids and then they're supposed to be like romantic.

[B]

But hey, he took. He took the whipping for her. He.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

He got beat up by the dad.

[A]

Brother. Brother.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Once you're in the brother category, you can't get out of the box.

[B]

Okay, then why did you think it was so hot when he licked her?

[A]

Okay. It was an isolated experience.

[B]

Why did you. Why'd you get the hots for Jacob?

[A]

Not saying that when he Say that to my friends at the gym today. And I was blushing as I was.

[B]

Wait, what? What? Because it's part of the movie.

[A]

You just have to watch it. Okay. If you're an adult and probably don't. If you're an adult, don't watch it with your mom. Don't watch it with your. Probably don't.

[B]

Do we know.

[A]

Sorry. I don't think you should watch with your sister in law.

[B]

What is it rated?

[A]

Honestly?

[B]

What is Wuthering Heights rated? Do we even know what this is?

[A]

Definitely are gothic romance. Romantic drama. It's a gothic romance. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's rated R, which is actually, certainly. Which is actually shocking to me because with no nudity. I did. I would have thought it was PG13, but I guess it's because of all the dark stuff.

[A]

The themes were so mature.

[B]

I will say the movie poster was sick. Like I thought they did A great job.

[A]

Very well done.

[B]

I thought it was very well done.

[A]

Here's my other thing. Margot Robbie is an extremely talented actress, and that just had me. The. The child actors in it were very talented as well. Every. I mean, the whole thing was good, but I just felt so sad for Edgar because, gosh, that poor man didn't. Didn't deserve anything that happened to him. Same with Isabella.

[B]

I really did feel, see, at the same time, like I was rooting for. For Jacob Elordi and Margot to get back together, but then honestly, he kind

[A]

of turned into, like, a major villain.

[B]

I felt so bad for Edgar getting wrapped up into everything.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like. Then also, here's the thing. It's never romantic to have really bad communication.

[B]

Okay, let's talk about this.

[A]

Really bad communication.

[B]

Maybe this could be a topic of discussion with. With everyone listening in. Do you marry for financial security or do you marry for romance?

[A]

I think as a woman in the. In the 1800s, it was like a

[B]

difference between life and death to marry for money.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So people did all the time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I think that's why this book was so survival. It was so controversial at the time that it came out, because people didn't like the messages that it. That it gave.

[A]

You know, I also don't. I mean, infidelity is never okay.

[B]

Yeah, true, true.

[A]

Literally never.

[B]

But they love each other, babe.

[A]

No, that doesn't matter. They shouldn't.

[B]

I like it. You're a good person. You're great.

[A]

Well, I guess we both know who is going to step outside of our marriage. More likely to step outside of our marriage.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

No. That's not even a. That's not even, like, a concern at all. Matt doesn't leave the house. I'm not worried about it.

[B]

I am at our house. I'm a homebody. I think you're the only woman I talk to throughout the day.

[A]

That's not true.

[B]

Other than. Other than producers that are in, like, Texas and our team. All of our team is all over the world. So the people that work on our shows, I just. We just chat over the Google Meet. Yep.

[A]

But the reason we went for a date night, I mean, I guess this is taking a harsh left turn, but that. Let's just bring it back to why we went on a date night, because I feel like we haven't actually been that good about date nights, if I'm totally honest.

[B]

Yeah, we've been busy. We've been.

[A]

But I also feel like we're really good at connecting after the kids go to bed.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's good that we're starting to do more date nights. Excuse me. We've also been dropping the kids off at your parents house on.

[A]

We've done it twice.

[B]

We've done it twice now on Friday nights. And then they'll like, that's what.

[A]

That was a Saturday.

[B]

Oh, that was a Saturday. But it's what Abby used to do with her grandparents when she was a kid. She would go to her grandparents house on the weekend just for a night and her parents could have some alone time. Go on a date, whatever. We're doing that now too, and it's been awesome.

[A]

It's not every week, but we've done it a couple times.

[B]

We should start doing it every week. Can we do that while we're in Flagstaff? I would love to do that on a little date.

[A]

May. It's kind of a family trip though.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

It is a family trip. But anyway, we. We went. My mom asked if she could watch the kids for the night because that was actually the day of. That we had scheduled for. I hate talking about this. I'm like, so over time. I mean, I think it's good to talk about it because it is like the. It's still hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So my mom asked if she could watch the boys, which was really, really kind because that was the day of like our daughter's C section. So like, we were pretty certain we were gonna meet her that day. And so we got to do a little date, which was really unfortunate that we chose to see Wuthering Heights for the date because given the circumstances, it was like actually probably the worst thing to watch to make you spiral if you've experienced a late term miscarriage. So know that ahead of time because I do know that a lot of you started following along potentially or started joining when we started talking about the loss of our daughter and our miscarriage. So just know that because I feel like a lot of people listening may also appreciate that, like, little caveat there. I'm not trying to like spoil the movie, but this isn't some. This isn't a plot twist that you want to be surprised by.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so because I didn't appreciate being surprised by it, like we said, it kind of ruined my evening. But anyway, so we went on the date night and yeah, I feel like this whole weekend has just been kind of the worst. And I feel like almost anticipation of it was like, equally bad.

[B]

Honestly, you handled it. Honestly, babe, you handled it really well.

[A]

That is not true.

[B]

The 20. Yeah. So basically, our daughter's due date was February 28th, and I. I honestly am

[A]

okay with you saying her name. I mean, if you want to, I'm

[B]

okay with that, too. I've just. I've just known you wanted to keep it private, so. I'd never said it.

[A]

Well, no, I think, honestly, I didn't really know why I wanted to keep it private, but I just wanted to trust my instinct. Like. And I think I just realized this weekend, like, when we came to the day where we were supposed to have her, it was because I kind of was still hanging on to, like, this separate life where I was, like, still pregnant. And, like, we were going to announce, like, her name on her birthday and stuff. And so, like, now that we've passed that date, like, it's okay in my mind. I mean, I don't care if we keep it private or if we.

[B]

Do you want to say it?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think it's. Yeah, I kind of want to, honestly, because I feel like what I'm learning is that, like, the name is really what gives anybody humanity. And, like, her humanity is what makes her loss, like, so painful, you know, because it wasn't. That's why I hate the. I hate the term. Okay, I shouldn't hate the term. But sometimes the term pregnancy loss really rubs me the wrong way, because, like, I'm not just grieving a pregnancy. I'm gravy grieving a human. I'm grieving a baby. I'm grieving a daughter. I'm grieving like, Emerson. And so, like, this month is just sucked. He named her Emerson Nicole. I actually had a stillborn sister who was a year older than me, and her name was Emily Nicole. And so we named Emerson. Kind of like they share that middle name, which was really meaningful for us. And then also our nurse, that was literally an angel to us when we delivered her, her name was Nicole. So it also just felt, like, so appropriate, you know, at that time and, like, meaningful to our family. But I will say, like, picking out that name after knowing that her heart wasn't beating, like, that was just a. You never want that experience to be something you and your baby are experiencing. But can you talk? Cause I don't even know where.

[B]

Yeah, No, I. Yeah. Well, thanks. Thank you for sharing that, first of all.

[A]

Well, I just. I'm thinking. I've been thinking for so long about, like, how we can honor her and remember her, and we talk about, like, you know, I feel like with all of our other baby Art. Like, our two other babies, all our friends and family knew their names before they were born, and we would talk about them a lot before they were born. And then we just kept it private, like, from social media until then. And so now it's, like, in a way, like, she's given that same honor as our. Our other two kids.

[B]

You know, something cool that my dad said he wanted to do was to get, like. My dad doesn't have tattoos. I have one tattoo. It's on my lip. Abby has a matching one with me. And so ever, like, when my dad said I was like, I want to get a tattoo. So I haven't. I haven't actually gotten the tattoo yet, but I've. I've been wanting to get a tattoo of her name on my arm and Abby's handwriting, and I don't know if that'll be my only tattoo that I ever get. I don't know. But when you mentioned, like, remembering her, I. I think that's the best way. Like, literally having her name written on my body. I'm never gonna forget that girl.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and, like, talking about her with our kids in a way that's, like, not scary. It's, like, either way, it's like.

[B]

It is scary. Yeah.

[A]

Like. But, like, trying to Just, like, trying to navigate that, you know, it's tricky, and it's complex. And so, like, they call her Emerson, and they have, like, a little bunny with her name on it. It says what. It says, like, loved for a lifetime. Emerson, Nicole. And it has her birthday, and it has. And the kids, like, sleep with this little bunny, and they call it their Emerson bunny. And so that's a really, like, tangible way that we can, like, talk about her. And we always say that we have that bunny to remember her by. And, like, I don't know. I think there's a lot of the things that we're gonna do that we're gonna just keep private because it just doesn't feel necessarily right to share. But I would recommend, like, something that we're doing that you could maybe do if you also just find yourself in this horrible position is to find a location that feels significant for you and that baby that you're missing so much, and then find a way for the whole family to be apart and, like, visit there. And so maybe that is, like, if you got to have, like, a grave site, maybe it's the grave site. Maybe it's, like, just, like, something that's just symbolic or there's some other reason why this location is really Significant to you. And if you're. You're, like, remembering the child you've lost. And so we're just gonna continue to, like, revisit a significant location as a family and, like, invite our whole family there for sure. In September.

[B]

Well, I mean, we. After the miscarriage, we saw. After we lost Emerson, we started seeing rainbows a lot.

[A]

I think that's the thing.

[B]

And with the rainbows, though, there was a friend of ours, I believe, that sent us a picture of the rainbow over the Superstition Mountains. Am I correct in saying that?

[A]

Well, we had a lot of friends at.

[B]

Did we see the rainbow over Superstition Mountains, or was it our friend that saw. We did. Okay. I'm trying to remember who saw it first, because I was seeing rainbows a lot. You were seeing rainbows. Our friends were seeing rainbows.

[A]

All our friends started sending us the rainbows that they saw. And so actually, like, this is something really, really sweet our family did for us. So this is just an idea. If you have, like, a dear loved one that's walking through, like, loss like this, they had someone they know do, like, a hand. Beautiful painting for us with a rainbow and mountains, and it was so. It's so beautiful. And so we hung that in her house this month so we can always look at it and just, like, remember her and also use it as a visual aid for our kids, too. You know, I think a lot of the same things that help kids also help us. You know, it's just, like, visual reminders are great. I have my necklace on with my charm that has my three babies on it, and so it has Griffin, Augie, and Emerson all on the necklace. And I kind of use that to talk about with the kids, too. We just have. Just have been thinking a lot, and I feel like I put so much pressure on myself, too, and I think I put that pressure too early on. Like, I was not in a place in my grief journey to, like, really get to, like, making meaning and, like, doing memorial stuff. Like, I wasn't. I put so much pressure early on, and it's like, if you're in the fresh stages, like, don't do what I did. Like, there's no this grief journey. I hate to say it. It won't always be this painful, but it is so long. Like, I've. I've made peace with the fact that I'm gonna grieve her the rest of my life. And so, like, there's no rush to this to. To this stage, you know, where you're trying to Memorialize and thinking of everything. But it is something that's really important for me to do. Oh, is my nose running out of my nose? I don't. But. So don't rush yourself or don't put pressure on yourself like I did, because it, it's just, It's. It's a long journey and it. I'm not always like this, but just the anticipation of, like, the end of February and like, actually being in the end of February has honestly been like, the shittiest. Like.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

but, you know, we get up every day. We still do our day because life goes on as much as it feels like a part of you never does. Like, you have to move on. Like, you. You have to continue living. And so that's what we're doing this year, and that's what we've done since the losses, that we've continued living and continue to get therapy. I'm meeting with my, like, mentor tomorrow who also lost a baby at 18 weeks, and we talk about our daughters. She talks about her daughter, and we call her by name. We call Emerson by name. My friends text me that. And that's really meaningful to me. And so, yeah, it wasn't like it was just some big secret, but I just couldn't figure out why I didn't want to share it for so long. And then I figured it out this past weekend and it just feels right. Inappropriate. So just like. Yeah, I don't know. It's just been. It's like, sucked so bad and it doesn't.

[B]

Doesn't get easier.

[A]

I, you know, I really think that if I would have heard someone's story, like mine before I experienced it, I would have been like, that's really hard. But I don't know that I would have understood how hard it is. And it doesn't mean that, like, like I said, we're still living. We're still. Every day doesn't look, like, sad and weepy. It looks like a lot of plans and we're doing a lot of traveling and, like, hanging out with our kids every day. We're always out of the house, going to carnivals, going on, like, short trips.

[B]

I mean, we're, like, staying very busy,

[A]

but, like, she comes with us everywhere. Her memory comes with us everywhere. And it's like there's reminders of her everywhere and so. And parts of, like, the day that we met her, like, legit haunt me still. So,

[B]

yeah, I think the way that you explained losing her to our kids was really good and really age appropriate. It was as simple as our boys, like explaining to our boys that her body just stopped working.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And obviously then the question I think that Griffin asked was, was my body gonna stop working?

[A]

Yeah. He said, I don't want my body to stop working.

[B]

And I think you very gently, lovingly said, you know, one day. Did you say like one day everyone's body stops working?

[A]

Yeah. And I said, hopefully it's when we have lived. Done a lot of things.

[B]

Yeah. Lived a lot of lives.

[A]

But it's really important that we take our, like, take care of our health as much as we can and we take care of our safety as much as we can. And just like kind of keep it brief, you know, because I don't think it was like as deep as like, I'm scared of dying. It was literally just like, you know, just like curious follow up question, you know. And so. And I know that he's not like, he's still.

[B]

Sorry. You got a little toilet paper on your.

[A]

Oh, great.

[B]

Sorry. Yeah. I think that's why they make tissues and not toilet paper.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

I don't really care. The other detail I think worth adding is it was so, so nice of friends of friends of ours to show up on the date that the C section would have been, which was the 21st. And so your friend Val brought you some ice cream, some like ones that. From Trader Joe's that you really liked. Some mochi ice creams as well as like the ice cream sandwiches from Trader Joe's that have the chocolate chips around them. My brother and my sister in law, who we're both, you know, very close with, they brought crumble cookies for us, which was super nice. And then. And then your friends from the gym, Caitlin and Ashley, brought you like a

[A]

care bathroom dance on our.

[B]

Did a dance.

[A]

Home security camera.

[B]

They did a dance on the home security camera. I did not know that they did. Really?

[A]

It's on the. It's on the.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You never told me that. I'm just finding this out right now. That's really sweet.

[A]

She said it's because you moved their home security camera. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I did moon their home security camera. I can't believe I did that. Good lord.

[A]

Yeah. So it's only up from here, right?

[B]

Only up from here. I mean, we. We've gone through the hardest. The hardest parts of it. I. Obviously the 28th is not going to be a fun day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Either.

[A]

But part of me is like ready to get past this point because, like, I feel like I can put Some of this stuff to rest, but this just shows that the grief journey just doesn't. Is not linear. And, like, everyone tells you that, and then you experience it, and you have so many good days in a row that you just, like, are like, oh, like, maybe we're done. And then you're just, like, freaking knocked back down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So fast and so hard. And I imagine, like, yeah, this is just always gonna be hard. Like, there's just. There's just no way. It's never gonna not be hard. And I think it's gonna get easier. But I feel like if I were to, like, talk to a friend down the line, or if I meet someone and we talk about our babies that we never got to meet, like, it'll always evoke tears for me. Like, I just don't see a world where that won't, like, still just sting so bad, like, the pain of that. So. It's just the worst. It's literally just the worst. And so I just. I. Yeah, I've learned so many lessons, and I feel like that's what people mean when they say, like, everything happens for a reason. Like. But it is true. Like, I've learned so many lessons from this, and I've got. I, like, gained so much empathy. This has been, like, a crazy lesson in patience for me because, like, I've never really had to be patient for some. Anything like this in my life. Like, we have been so privileged. Like, I got married really young. We got. We had. We were blessed with fertility that just out of nowhere, you know, for nothing that we've done. That has been really good. And then to, like, experience. This has just been a lesson in patience. I never wanted to learn, but here we are.

[B]

And I think just to maybe calm some fears people might be feeling, listening to this right now, knowing about miscarriage, hearing about miscarriage, it is. It is very scary. It does happen. And while it does happen, it's one in four women who experience miscarriage in their lifetime. So you're. You're one of those four. You know, we're a part of that dumb club that has been through something like that. But don't think, like, if you're pregnant right now and you're worried, like, don't. Don't think that it's. It's that likely. It's. It's rare. It doesn't happen that often. But I mean, yeah, you still have one out of four, which sucks. And I think. I think the reason it shocked us so much is just because it was in the second trimester when 80 to 85% of them. This is like, some data that we have from our producer. 88. 80 to 85% of losses happen in the first trimester before 12 weeks. So what we went through, what Abby went through, very rare, not common. Um, and it's just like, you know, we just got. We just got a delta bad hand. You know, while the miscarriage has been really hard and it's been something that I think we're still gonna be talking about for forever, it's been good just to, like. I'm glad that we were in therapy already when that happened. I'm glad that we've been still going to therapy. I think that's been really helpful for me. Really helpful for you. Not only doing solo therapy, but couples therapy. All of the therapy we're doing, we're doing every type of therapy there is. So that's been really good. And we'll even be doing some. In addition to the retail therapy that. That, you know, you did. Supporting the small business recently. I think we have some travel coming up that's scheduled. I think we were hoping to have the travel scheduled around this week, the week that we were going to meet our daughter. But the, you know, with dates and coordinating with family members, as well as coordinating with. There's, like, a brand that's going to bring us out overseas later in the coming months. We're just. We're. We're here for now, but. But I think it'll be good during the. Like, on the 28th, we'll be in Flagstaff with. With our family, with the kids, and I think that'll be good to just get away for a little bit that day.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

I guess the question we should end on is, like, what does the future look like for us? We've been through this awful thing. It's been a really hard month. 2025 was a. Was a hard year, honestly, a big

[A]

part of, like, meeting. Making for me. I said this from, like, the first episode we ever made about losing our daughter. Is that, like. Like a part of the meaning? Making for me has been talking about it publicly. And while there's a lot that we have kept private and, like, will continue to keep private, like, this has been very healing for me. And so, like, I don't know anyone that's sick of hearing about it. Like, move on. It's not for you.

[B]

And we do, like.

[A]

I mean, that's just as simple as that, because it's for the people that it's for. And, like, I have met so many Women because of it. Like, not because of it, but that have, like, shared their story or shared about their babies because of being public about it. And that's just a small percentage of, like, we know that. There's so many comments and so many. And it's not. Like, that is just. I. For me, that is honoring Emerson. And so, like, I'll continue to talk about it, like. And so. But obviously, like, I keep saying, like, life keeps happening, and we just carry the grief with us as we do the next right thing, you know? And so I think we're just gonna continue to live life as full as we can. And also, just, like, with this new, like, deeper understanding of, like, what a blessing life is.

[B]

I'm so conflicted now, too, because a lot of how we've connected with all the wonderful people here, listening to our podcasts, watching our YouTube videos, TikToks, we've connected a lot over growing our family and the pregnancies that you've been through. Like, I think that's. That's where we found a lot of. A lot of people that are here. And so I guess the question for you is, like, now that we've been through this miscarriage, now that you have experienced loss, how does that change how we approach that in the future?

[A]

All of that is true, but sometimes loss is a part of growing your family. She's still part of our family. And like, this, like you said, one in four women experience, like, this is a part of the journey for so many people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, as much as we hate it, like, it is part of the journey.

[B]

Because I think about people that watch, it must be hard to see pregnancy content.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you're. If you're someone that's experiencing miscarriage, has been through a miscarriage. I know for you, especially right after it, I know it pissed you off to see pregnancy.

[A]

It didn't piss me off. It hurt me. And that was my, like, I don't know if this sounds like such a jerk thing to say, but, like, that was my responsibility to filter, like, what I was putting in my brain afterwards, you know? And so no matter what, pregnancy is a celebration. Like, it is a. It is a joy. There's. There's so many hard aspects, and I understand that there are so many realities that women face while pregnant that make it so much more complicated. They're not all fun. They're messy, they're hard, they're deeply challenging. And there can even be sadness and anger all mixed up in there. But no matter what, like, the privilege of growing A baby and growing your family that way, it is always something that should be celebrated. And if there's anything that's made me realize that it is experiencing loss. And so like pregnancy will always be, I don't know, something to be celebrated, something to be talked about. And that's why it was so healing for me also to throw baby showers for my friends, even while I was still, you know, grieving. It's not because I'm like some superhero. It's because I know now how freaking amazing and what a blessing it is that they're able to carry a child like that, you know, So I don't think there will really be. I think obviously there will be things that I do differently personally. Like as I navigate it and there's. I'm sure my content will look differently post, post loss pregnancy. Pregnancy post loss versus like before because I'm different. So like my content will look different. My content has always been a reflection of me. Obviously. Like that's not, I'm not unique in that. But like it's always been a reflection. But it's like I don't. Is the question like, do I think I did something wrong in the past?

[B]

I think you answered it. No, I don't think you did anything wrong in the past.

[A]

No, I, I don't think so.

[B]

I wonder if it just like changed your perspective and I think, I think, think you acknowledging that. I mean, I think it's cool that you just took personal responsibility for the content you're consuming. So I think for you, you just, when you were getting fed pregnancy content, you just, I think you got off your phone.

[A]

I'm not a mental health expert, but I think if you were to talk to many a lot of their things says like we gotta, we still have to assume agency, right? Like there's things that are outside of our control, like experiencing loss. But what's, what's inside of my control afterwards is consuming things that are not going to continue to hurt that same area over and over and over and over. And so yeah, there was, I mean, I didn't use anything for I don't know how many weeks. And then even now I just, I severely limit it and I just learned

[B]

to

[A]

regulate it myself too with what I can take. And that's not revealing some like weakness in me. And it's not revealing like that I have some unresolved part. Parts of me. It's just, it's just part of it, like part of living life. When you've been changed so dramatically, like life looks different Afterwards.

[B]

We've talked so much today about so, so much. Something else that Abby and I have been thinking about doing more. So me because I'm. I'm still in the. I'm in meaning making. I want to make meaning out of what has happened. I'm considering making some sort of, you know, short documentary similar to the type of videos that we've like made. I don't know, like we've. We have our birth story that's up on YouTube, but we don't have our miscarriage story. And I feel like that's a story that I'd like to tell. And I haven't even started the video. There's so much footage to go through. There's so much. It's also really sad too. I'll be honest, looking through the footage of us telling people that we're pregnant with Emerson because it was just like I started looking through it and I just got really sad.

[A]

Had.

[B]

But I want to make meaning out of it. And so I guess what the reason I'm saying this is. If there's like any charities, any, any resources that you guys know of, please share them in the comments. Two that our producer came up with, our Pregnancy and Infant Loss Support center. It's p I l s c.org and there's also the Postpartum Support International. It's postpartum.net. i just want to make meaning out of this horrible thing that we went through and that one out of four women go through. And yeah, I just think you guys are awesome. We feel so grateful for you being a part of this community and hopefully we can take this awful thing that happened and, you know, do some good in the world. So please let us know if you have any ideas in the comments. Any. Any charities that you think are really powerful, doing a lot of good. I am a maximizer. I am someone that like whenever I give to a charity, I look up their info, their info on charity navigator. I do my research and it's. And it's not spur of the moment giving for me. It's more so like year end giving where we've then decided, okay, these are the charities that we're supporting. So anyway, all that being said, I think a documentary is coming. I want to tell our story. I want to tell Emerson's story and I'm hoping that in some way it can provide resources to people that have been through the same thing or will go through the same thing and just don't know it yet.

[A]

That's all I have.

[B]

Love you, babe.

[A]

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