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The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Brain expert on Tylenol, Autism, and Anti-Depressants w/ Dr. Daniel Amen
01:13:54
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- [00:01]
Matt Howard
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:03]
Dr. Daniel Amen
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- [00:13]
Abby Howard
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- [00:16]
Matt Howard
I get an extra 5% off with.
- [00:18]
Dr. Daniel Amen
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- [00:38]
Matt Howard
When I'm looking at my kids, if they're using some sort of technology that's supervised, that's educating them, I view it as a net positive. Do you disagree with that? Do you think that I do?
- [00:47]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I think you have to be so careful. When did autism spike? As a child psychiatrist, I rarely saw it. Tylenol all of a sudden became the star pain reliever. Then we also saw an explos illusion of autism.
- [01:01]
Matt Howard
We sat down with Dr. Daniel Amen, a world renowned psychiatrist, brain expert, and 12 time New York Times bestselling author. Amen has scanned over 200, 000 people's brains, including those of NFL players and celebrities. I know there's a lot of like, hot topics in the media right now, especially when it comes to Tylenol, how that affects, you know, children, especially when a mother is taking that while pregnant. So I kind of wanted to start off with that topic if that's total.
- [01:28]
Dr. Daniel Amen
All right, well, let's just go for it right away.
- [01:31]
Matt Howard
Okay.
- [01:33]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So those of us that think of ourselves as integrative or functional medicine doctors, and I think of myself as an integrative psychiatrist, have known for a long time that Tylenol is potentially a problem. And why, what, what does it do? It disrupts liver function and so you can't properly detoxify the poisons that are in your body. There has been an association. So when did autism really spike? Yeah, and the American Psychiatric association will lead you to believe when they change the diagnostic criteria. That's absolutely wrong. I mean, yes, maybe more people got diagnosed, but as a child psychiatrist, I rarely saw it. In the 1980s when I was doing my training, I rarely saw it in the early 90s, about the mid-90s, it exploded. So what happened? And in the 80s, when a mom had a fever, she'd use aspirin. But there were a couple of cases of something called Reye's syndrome where babies had allergic reactions to aspirin. And the pediatrician said, oh, don't give them aspirin anymore. Let's start using Tylenol. So Tylenol, which was not big all of a sudden became the star pain reliever and star relieving fever. And then we also saw an explosion of autism. Now, I don't think it's the autism only thing.
- [03:16]
Matt Howard
Okay.
- [03:16]
Dr. Daniel Amen
But it's a thing. And I believe autism comes from a gene. Genetically vulnerable people, environmental toxin. And I think Tylenol is one of them. I also think BPAs, Bisphenol A, that's often in plastics, that Coca Cola, they have BPAs in their cans. And they say it on their website proudly, which sort of a little. It's bad marketing in my mind. Aspartame, we'll talk about aspartame a little bit. That's in diet soda. And there's a brand new study on phthalates. So phthalates, one of the chemicals in personal products like makeup.
- [04:02]
Matt Howard
Yeah.
- [04:02]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Or deodorant or your sunscreen, they put it as a preservative. And moms who, they looked at cord blood, the blood from the umbilical cord. So mom to baby, those who had high levels of phthalate in their cord blood had a 500% increased risk of having an autistic child. Okay, so think about this with me. Because it's not a genetic issue. Because genetic issues don't all of a sudden go from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 31. That it's an environmental vulnerability put in. Something happened and it was an environmental toxin. Ultimately, if you want the healthiest baby, you have to get healthy yourself.
- [04:54]
Matt Howard
You mentioned how Tylenol, and I think you say this in your, in your new book, that Tylenol is so helpful for someone going through grief and how.
- [05:01]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You know from a breakup. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [05:03]
Matt Howard
I guess like, yeah, for healing a broken heart. That's. I forget the exact quote that you said, but yeah, you were talking about Tylenol when it comes to a broken heart as well as ibuprofen. But for some reason with ibuprofen, it works for women, but not men. Talk to me more about that.
- [05:17]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So in Change your brain, change your pain, I thought the idea behind the book is that both physical and emotional pain work on the same circuits in the brain. And so when they figured out that Tylenol actually helped with the emotional pain of a breakup, it's like, well, why is that? Because it calms a area of the brain called the medial toward the middle pain, suffering circuit. That was just so interesting and why ibuprofen would work for women but not for men, I'm not quite sure. But I found that, you know, this gender based difference is just fascinating. But with things like headaches, you want always want to ask yourself, why do I have it right? You always want to be curious, not furious. So what did I eat, what did I drink? What's the level of stress that I'm under and how can I manage these things and in a better way? And we often talk about how pain is repressed rage. So if you're really angry, but you're such a nice person, you could never say, often comes out in back pain or head pain. And Tana, my wife, often calls me Pollyanna because I'm a very positive person. But I realized in writing Change youe Brain, Change youe Pain, that I have to befriend Hannibal Lecter. Because you have to be able to find a way to get the rage out now, appropriately. Right. We're not going to become a serial killer. Yeah. But too often, John Sarno, who wrote wonderful books on pain, talked about the goodest, the people that have to be good, good in order to be okay with themselves, that they suffer a lot more with pain. And he actually said it was repressed rage.
- [07:31]
Abby Howard
I also find it very interesting, the connection that you drew between pain that you're like experiencing and then also and like grief specifically, and muscle pain, knots in your back. We are, we're currently grieving very fresh grief. We lost a baby at 17 weeks just very recently.
- [07:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I'm so sorry.
- [07:51]
Abby Howard
Still shaky. Still shaky about it. But seeing that you drew that connection, I was, I just turned to Matt immediately. Was like, that's crazy because I have started developing knots, like tweaking my neck, knots in my back. And like I went and got Matt. You scheduled me, like a tension point, what's it called? Attention point massage.
- [08:11]
Matt Howard
Abby tweaked her neck and so I scheduled her massage and it really helped. Cause she had all these knots and.
- [08:15]
Abby Howard
Masseuse was like, you have so many knots in your back. And then when I saw you drew that connection between grief and muscles, knots, all this stuff, I was like, wow, that's crazy. That like that turned a light on for me.
- [08:28]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, and hypnosis can be very helpful, or emdr. EMDR is a specific psychological treatment for trauma. What happened to you was clearly traumatic. Right. It's not a little T, it's a big T. Yeah. And there's another technique I like a lot called havening. Do you know what that is?
- [08:50]
Abby Howard
No. I'M not familiar.
- [08:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So it's bilateral hemisphere stimulation. So I talk about all of these in the new book. But whenever you feel sad, do bilateral hemisphere stimulation. So it's either this or this. I like this the best. Okay. And what I would have you do is go in to the sadness while you're doing this and go into it for, like, 30 seconds. I mean, really feel it, but then keep doing it and distract yourself. Like, go to Disneyland in your head or the mountains or the desert or the beach or wherever you love. And then keep doing that for a couple of more minutes and then go, how do you feel? So initially, if you do it with a havening therapist, they'll go, okay, on a scale of 0 to 10, when you think about it, how upsetting is it? And you're like, it's a 10, right? And then you haven and you do that for like, three minutes. And then rate it. And often my patients will go, it's a four. And I'm like, well, let's do it again. Think about it for 30 seconds. Distract yourself, go to the beach, and then it's a two. Hmm. And then if you do it three or four times, it's like, you're still sad, but you're not triggered. And Ron Rudin, who discovered this, found it was really good for panic disorder, was really good for phobias.
- [10:33]
Abby Howard
Ah, that's music to my ears. I love a good Olipop at the end of the day. Honestly, Olipop is such a staple in our household.
- [10:39]
Matt Howard
We started drinking Olipop a couple years ago because it's soda without all the added sugar that most soda brands have.
- [10:46]
Abby Howard
We literally all fight over our favorite flavors. There's so many good ones, though. Even our kids love it.
- [10:51]
Matt Howard
They taste so good. And you're only looking at about, like, 4 or 5 grams of sugar, depending on the Olipop that you drink.
- [10:56]
Abby Howard
Almost every American has some sort of relationship with soda from their childhood. Some people grew up drinking it all the time and then quit. And some people are still addicted to it and trying to quit. But Olipop offers a delicious alternative to traditional soda, using a functional ingredient blend to support digestive health. 90% of Americans consume more than the U.S. uSDA's daily recommended added sugar intake. And sweetened beverages are the leading source of added sugars in the American diet. Olipop is much, much lower in sugar than conventional sodas, with only 2 to 5 grams of sugar from natural sugar.
- [11:26]
Matt Howard
And we have some exciting news for you guys, because you can get $2 off a four pack of Olipop at drinkolipop.com unplanned. This works on any flavor of four pack, including spongebob at any retailer. Olipop is sold online and available in almost 50,000 retailers nationwide, including Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Foods, Kroger, and H E B.
- [11:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
My dad died five years ago, and it was like the worst day of my life. And a couple of days later, I'm over at his house and somebody put a picture of my dead dad in the mortuary in a random stack of papers. And I got it and it just. It was like somebody slugged me. I was so upset and I was angry and what idiot would do this? And I couldn't stop thinking about that. And I was at my house later that day obsessing about this. And the little supervisor in my head goes, you treat people who have this problem, what would you do? And I hate them. I sat in the chair and I thought about how angry I was, and I thought about the picture. And I did that for like 30 seconds. And then I took my brain to the beach and I kept. And it went from 10 to like 4. And then I did it again. I went from 10 to 2. And then I fell in love with the picture because it was the last picture of my dad on earth. It's so helpful. And little kids can do this. I found it incredibly helpful for when children are upset. Stroke them, right, like on their arms, have them think about what you're upset about. And now go think about the playground or think about being in the pool. You know, whatever they love, and it just settles them.
- [13:24]
Matt Howard
How do you think things would have played out differently if, say, you would have turned to drinking in that time, or went and binged a dozen donuts from Krispy Kreme or, I don't know, gotten high? Like, are you then prolonging the pain into other areas? And then it's. It's coming up and you don't even understand why it's coming up. Like, how does that.
- [13:44]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Right. You just could, you know, you feel better fast, but doesn't last. Yeah, and I always want people to feel better fast. Right. That's a fast technique. But I want it to last and I want you to work through it rather than pick up an addiction that creates more problems for you, whether it's the donuts, alcohol, marijuana, whatever.
- [14:09]
Matt Howard
Why is it that doctors today are so quick to prescribe SSRIs or some sort of medication for things like that? I actually just to be vulnerable here for A second. I'm actually currently on antidepressants and they've been, they've been super helpful. But it did shock me how easy it was to get prescribed them. It was like a 10 minute phone call just, you know, with, with the, with the doctor through, through an app. Like it was, it was a pretty simple process. And you know, I had been depressed for a very long time, so I think it was probably a good thing and I'm doing a lot better. And it definitely, I think it's helped me through this horrible thing that we're currently going through with, with the loss of our baby girl. But it was shocking to me though, how easy it was because I, I held off on, you know, getting them for a very long time because I was trying to fix it in all these different ways. But I just kind of got stuck in this, in that like doom loop that you talk about in your, in your book. Why is that, that it's so easy to prescribe them and just hand out antidepressants?
- [15:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
25% of the American population is on psychiatric medication.
- [15:18]
Matt Howard
Wow.
- [15:18]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It is a huge win for the pharmaceutical industry. It is a huge loss for our society. Some people, they're incredibly helpful, but psychiatrists are the only medical doctors who never look at the organ they treat. So you got prescribed 10 minutes working through an app and nobody looked at your brain, nobody looked ahead of time, nobody looked afterwards. You have no idea what it's really doing to your brain. Now maybe you had a brain pattern where that medicine. What are you taking?
- [15:56]
Matt Howard
I'm on Zoloft, So I take 50 milligrams every night before bed.
- [16:00]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Okay. So maybe your brain was busy and the front part of your brain, when it works too hard, you can worry, you're a little bit rigid. If things don't go your way, you get upset and you can be sad and those sad thoughts can cycle. Something like Zoloft, SSRI calms that down. But if you take too much or you take it for too long, that then you don't care that much, you become a little bit less motivated, you become a little bit more impulsive. And there's this balance between neurotransmitters in your brain. So if you think of serotonin, Zoloft is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. So what it's doing, when you're brain releases serotonin, it's preventing the breakdown of it, so it leaves more of it around. Right. And so it calms things down. But as you raise serotonin, it's on a teeter totter counterbalances with dopamine. And so as serotonin goes up, relatively dopamine goes down. And so say they were really out of whack to start. So maybe it balances. But maybe your dopamine was a little bit low. Because I think we talked before, it's like, well, maybe you have add, right? Unplanned is, you know, before I'm like, I wonder if they have add.
- [17:32]
Matt Howard
Which.
- [17:33]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Means you already started with low dopamine. And so it might, you might become a little bit more ADD with it. And so how do you know? That's been my argument for 30 years, unless you look ahead of time. Someone just monkeyed around with your brain with no biological data. And that's what's happening. And it's like you asked why. It's because it's the only tool psychiatrists have. Now, when I trained, I trained in the early 1980s at Walter Reed. That wasn't the only tool we had. I was the therapist, I was the medical doctor, I was the psychiatrist. I had medicine, I had therapy, I had group counseling, I had lots of tools in my toolbox. But in the early 90s, when managed care, they go, oh, psychiatrist, you're, you're too expensive. You just do the drugs and we'll hire, you know, lower paid psychologists, marriage and family counselors. They do the therapy. And in my mind I went, I'm not going to do that. I'm treating the whole person. I'm not going to be anybody's prescriber. I'm going to be their doctor. So I've hated that model, but it took over psychiatry in the early 90s, and it's beautiful for the pharmaceutical industry.
- [19:01]
Matt Howard
Speak more about all these other methods there are to treat.
- [19:03]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So you came to see me and I totally would give you an option of medication because my job isn't to tell you what to do, my job is to give you options.
- [19:13]
Matt Howard
Right.
- [19:14]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It's called informed consent. And head to head against Zoloft, walking like you're late, 45 minutes, four times a week, equally effective. But what do you have at the end of 12 weeks of exercise? Well, you're cuter and your brain works a little bit better. What do you have at the end of 12 weeks of Zoloft? You're less depressed, but it's harder to have an orgasm. I mean, I don't know if that's true for you. No.
- [19:41]
Matt Howard
So it's funny that you bring that up because I was listening to you talk about this very thing on a podcast. And not to be tmi, but I have a very high libido. And so just this past week, I've been on Zoloft now for four months and. And I was like, abby, like, I mean, it's actually. I'm not even gonna lie a little bit. Nice that I'm. I'm not so, like, man, I just need some, like, I don't know, but. But I was like, abby, like, this is weird.
- [20:06]
Abby Howard
Like, I've never more done in his day now.
- [20:08]
Matt Howard
Yeah, I'm not so distracted by thinking about sex all the time. So, I mean, maybe that's been helpful for me, but.
- [20:14]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, I think for some people, because sometimes hypersexuality can go along with addiction and calming that down a little bit can be so helpful, Right. To give you a little bit better impulse control and not spinning on the same thought over and over again. Yeah. It is funny, though, we were talking about natural treatments, so exercise. Omega 3 fatty acids, especially higher in EPA than DHA. Learning how to not believe every stupid thing you think is so important. Like when you're sad or you're spinning, it's like, why are there no classes in school on how to manage your mind? Right? I'm friends with Paul Simon and I love him. He has this song called Kodachrome, which starts off with. When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all. I mean, it's like, why don't we teach kids how to manage their checkbooks and manage their minds, right? We have a high school course called brain thrive by 25. Decreases drug, alcohol and tobacco use. Decreases depression. Improves self esteem. Why? We teach them not to believe every stupid thing they think. And then we teach them to love and care for their brain by asking themselves this question every day. Is what I'm doing good for my brain or bad for it? And so alcohol, bad. Marijuana, bad. Hitting a soccer ball with your head, very bad, Right? So just learning to do the right thing. Not because you should, you do the right thing because you love yourself, right? And the thing you want to love, your brain. So three natural things. Saffron. 28 randomized controlled trials against Zoloft, Celexa, Wellbutrin, Imipramine, Prozac. Equally effective. Saffron is pro sexual, so maybe that would not help you. It enhances. Enhances sexual function. It helps with mood, but also helps with memory and focus. There's five studies with ADD and Saffron, and so I'M thinking for you. I'm doing those four things. First and fifth is learning not to believe every stupid thing you think. Right. Whenever you're sad, whenever you're mad, whenever you're nervous or out of control, write down what you're thinking and then go. Is it true that is a basic skill that second graders should learn.
- [23:00]
Abby Howard
As a parent, I would say my most, most dreaded meal of the day is lunchtime.
- [23:05]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Really?
- [23:05]
Abby Howard
Yes, really.
- [23:06]
Matt Howard
Especially with the kids.
- [23:07]
Abby Howard
Yeah, it's like we just cleaned up from breakfast. I'm thinking about making a dinner for the whole family. Like you're telling me you need a third meal in the middle of the day. And I feel like I've never have a good plan for it. And that is why I have stopped stressing over last minute meals and started using Little Spoon. Their recipes are made with pediatricians packed with hidden veggies. And somehow my kids will still ask for seconds, which I feel like we're always bargaining with our kids at meal time, especially lunchtime. But Little Spoon has been excellent. They love, they love their meals with Little Spoon.
- [23:37]
Matt Howard
They do. The Little Spoon meals even come with, you know, a side, an entree, a dessert. And so what I've been doing when I give them the Little Spoon meals is putting the dessert like away until they hide the main portion and then I give them their dessert.
- [23:49]
Abby Howard
Oh, and they sure do love it. It. Honestly, there's something nostalgic about Little Spoon too. Like, it reminds me of my childhood, but a much more wholesome and healthier version than what we were eating as kids.
- [23:57]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yes.
- [23:57]
Matt Howard
Oh, my gosh.
- [23:58]
Abby Howard
And that's because everything's made with real ingredients. No artificial flavors, sweeteners, or dyes. It's the rare combo of convenient and healthy. And isn't that what we're always looking for?
- [24:08]
Matt Howard
Oh, yes, Abby. And here's the exciting part. Little Spoon is now in Target. Plus Target has an exclusive frozen line. Think their cult favorite, chicken nuggets, meatballs and sliders. Find them in the snack and freezer aisles.
- [24:23]
Abby Howard
Little Spoon is the mealtime hack parents can't stop talking about. Try their no prep nutrient packed meals and snacks for babies, toddlers and big kids. Get 50% off your first online order at littlespoon.com unplanned with code unplanned at checkout. That's L I T T L-E-S-P-O-O-N.com unplanned. And don't forget to use our show's CO for 50% off your first order.
- [24:46]
Dr. Daniel Amen
This generation, your generation's thought. Like, I. I've seen some of the world's most famous people. They'll have the same thought. I'm not enough. One guy sold 400 million albums. I'm not enough. I'm like, dude, if you're not enough, nobody is enough.
- [25:06]
Matt Howard
Who are you talking about when you. When you say that?
- [25:08]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, I don't want to say that one, but, you know, I mean, so many people, they go, oh, I'm not enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not tall enough. I'm not rich enough. I'm not enough. And I'm like, is that true? Yes. Is it absolutely true? No. How does it make you feel? Small. How would you feel if you didn't have the thought? Fine. Take the original thought, turn it to its opposite. I am enough. And then just focus. Do you have any evidence you're enough? Married to a beautiful woman, have a job you find fascinating? It's where you bring your attention. So if you naturally tend to be depressed, we naturally tend to be negative, and negativity is bad for your brain. And so I try to teach all of my patients, positivity bias, what's positive about this situation. And there's nothing positive about having a miscarriage except you guys are still together and you still love each other and you can try again. And my mom had a miscarriage, and she cried. I'll never have a baby. Yeah. She has seven children and 54 grandchildren. Great grandchildren. It's like, don't believe every stupid thing you think. So when you get that thought, just write it down and go, is that true?
- [26:43]
Abby Howard
Something I love, that you have shared many times, is pain shared is pain divided. And that I found so much relief in that in this time, Like, I have talked more openly, cried more openly. Like, shared so much in a time that, I don't know, I felt, like, a little pressure. Like, maybe I should just be quiet and, like, get myself collected before I talk about this. But I have found so much healing in, like, talking about my pain. And I guess we can talk about that aspect of, like, managing our pain, like, sharing our pain, and, like, how that has a tangible benefit to how we experience it.
- [27:22]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It also connects you and it gives some purpose to the pain because as you shared it, other people have shared theirs with you. Now, ultimately, you want to share how you're getting better. Right? You don't want to just share the pain, but in sharing it, other people can Tell you their experience. And that's the connection that is healing. And we get sick in four circles, and we get well in four circles. So I always think about, what's the biology of that. Your hormones went through wicked quick transition. So there's a physical aspect to that. There's also a psychological aspect to it, which is loss. Right. And grief. And then there's a social aspect to it. There may be some tension or disappointment. And there's a spiritual aspect. It's like, well, why did that happen to me? And I think getting well is taking care of yourself physically, not believing every stupid thing you think, or using something like emdr. Havening to manage it. Connecting, sharing the pain, always looking for the purpose.
- [28:42]
Matt Howard
It's. It's just been on our minds constantly. You know, it's been something that, like, the automatic negative thoughts have definitely come up. Feeling helpless, hopeless, like, that's. That's obviously been a thing as well. And so it's just been. It's been something that's been really hard, I think.
- [28:56]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So. Especially what's the thought?
- [28:58]
Matt Howard
From my perspective, I think being on antidepressants has definitely helped me. But it's been sad to see Abby blame herself for all that. And so just reminding her that there's absolutely nothing that she did wrong. Seeing her go into this blame game of like, oh, maybe I did this, maybe I did that. And it's like, no, you didn't. There's nothing you did. It's just sucky stuff like this happens sometimes.
- [29:28]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, we always try to believe we have more power than we do.
- [29:33]
Abby Howard
Truthful.
- [29:34]
Matt Howard
Yeah.
- [29:34]
Dr. Daniel Amen
When you go, I could have done this, or I could have. You just write that out. And then it's like, well, is that true? Is it absolutely true? The flip is, I did what I knew to do. And bad things happen to good people. Right? And we know miscarriages often happen when there's sometimes something wrong with the baby. And so it's nature's way of not creating more suffering. But we don't know. But when your mind goes on the attack, that's when you need to write it down and treat yourself like a good mom would, or a good friend or a good teacher, a good coach. It's too often we treat ourselves in such an abusive way. And it's like, hey, would a good coach say that to me? Or would a good friend say that to me? Or would I say this to someone I cared about? And it's like, you wouldn't. So then give that part of you a name. I love it give your mind a name. Like, I named my mind after my pet raccoon when I was. Because she was a trouble pet raccoon. I did.
- [30:55]
Matt Howard
No way. Loved her indoor. Like, inside your house.
- [30:58]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Oh, no. Slept in my bedroom. What?
- [31:00]
Abby Howard
That's scary.
- [31:01]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I didn't know TP'd my mother's bathroom. It's a very bad day. Ate all the fish out of my sister's aquarium.
- [31:08]
Matt Howard
You're kidding me.
- [31:09]
Dr. Daniel Amen
But that's my mind. It just creates trouble. And so if you give your mind a name, you just can separate from it. And if you can be a little bit dispassionate and watch it and go, oh, it's a storm. And the storm because of the loss and the hormones. But you don't have to attach to it. It's not the thoughts you have that make you suffer. It's a thought you attach to.
- [31:41]
Matt Howard
You've talked before about how when you look at the brain, you scan. Scan someone's brain who is praying or meditating. You see all sorts of activity. And I want to get into what that looks like, because I believe you referenced on a podcast, a study that somebody did on Tibet, Tibetan monks, and Francesca nuns. But where my question's coming from is, is there a similar thing going on in the brain when you look at someone who is reflecting on a loved one that's passed on or a, you know, someone that was close to them and they're. And they're like. They live in the. In their brain with them, if that makes sense.
- [32:19]
Dr. Daniel Amen
We all live in each other's brains, and when we lose somebody important to us, the brain still looks for them. And that's where it. It becomes more active, different than in prayer and meditation.
- [32:35]
Matt Howard
Okay.
- [32:35]
Dr. Daniel Amen
They tend to calm down. An area of the brain called the posterior cingulate gyrus. Big term. It's part of a brain that's like the chatterbox in your brain that, like, talks to you and sometimes punishes you, says bad things to you. Meditation and prayer calm those areas down, and they strengthen your frontal lobes. And there's always this dance between your emotional brain or the chatterbox and your frontal lobe. So think of your frontal lobes as the break in your brain, or if you think of the rider and the elephant. So your emotional brain is like the elephant, but it has a writer, and the writer, like, directs the energy. No, it's like, now, we're going to do that. We're going to do this, and you need that. But if you were in a car accident, if you played football, in high school, if you're drinking alcohol or smoking pot, what you're doing is you're weakening the writer or you're weakening the break and your emotions can get out of control. So we never want to do anything to damage this break part in your brain. This also breaks pain and change your brain, change your pain. I talk about three pain circuits in the brain, this being the most important one because if this is weak, it can't shut down pain, physical or emotional.
- [34:09]
Matt Howard
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- [34:30]
Abby Howard
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- [34:49]
Matt Howard
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- [35:03]
Abby Howard
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- [35:19]
Matt Howard
We talked before last time we had you on the show a lot about alcohol and how damaging that is. I think there's been a lot of research coming out recently where people are realizing that alcohol is essentially poison and it's not good for you and even, even drinking in moderation isn't good. But now there's been this big push towards marijuana. It's been interesting to see. Like we recently moved to Arizona and immediately I started noticing like all these signs that were like, free weed Friday, come get your free weed. Like weed pizza. Like all these. There's this big business now behind marijuana because it's getting legalized all over the country. And from the research that I've done on it, it seems to be a lot less harmful for your health than alcohol. But that doesn't still mean that it's healthy for you. So I'm curious. What do you say to the person that, you know, views marijuana as medicine, medicinal, you know, helpful for chronic pain or headaches? Like what? What do you say to that person?
- [36:20]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah, I'm not a fan. I published a study on 62,454 patients. It's the world's largest imaging study on how the brain ages. And kids have really busy brains. And as we get older, it becomes sleepy. And then what we looked at is what accelerates aging. Having schizophrenia was the worst. Your brain looked 10 years older. The next worst was marijuana.
- [36:52]
Matt Howard
Really?
- [36:53]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah. And then I published a study on a thousand marijuana users. Every area of the brain was lower in blood flow. And then there's a brand new study out earlier this year from another group that I have nothing to do with. On a thousand marijuana users, young ones, the areas involved with learning and memory were lower. It's not innocuous, it's a lie. Teenagers who smoke or use marijuana in their 20s have an increased risk of anxiety, depression, suicide, and psychosis. There's actually a gene that if you have this gene, you have a 700% increased risk if you use marijuana of becoming psychotic. And most people never test for the gene. So if you're using marijuana, it's a little bit of Russian roulette. On our podcast, change your brain every day, we recently had Julius Randall. So Julius is three time NBA all star, is a superstar power forward for the Minnesota Timberwolves, has spoken a lot of pot and almost got divorced over it. He saw a scan and Julius is very smart. He saw a scan and saw the damage it was doing. And he stopped well a year later emotionally, because he learned how to not believe every stupid thing he thinks. He learned how to have better habits, got his ADD treated, and he's not using marijuana. And he's so much better as his brain is better. I'm not a fan of it, especially because it can decrease motivation, it can decrease your coordination. There's one city in Ohio where 42% of the accidents are associated with marijuana. So we are just changing addictions.
- [38:47]
Matt Howard
Okay.
- [38:47]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And now the new one is psilocybin.
- [38:50]
Matt Howard
Okay.
- [38:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It's like psilocybin for everybody. And in some cases, marijuana is helpful. In some cases, under really good supervision, psilocybin probably is going to be helpful for depression and ptsd. The problem is this. As soon as we go, oh, this is good medicine. Now we have mass numbers of young people having mushroom parties.
- [39:17]
Matt Howard
Interesting.
- [39:18]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And what's the incidence of mental health problems in the young, they've exploded, and they've exploded in part around the societal lies that alcohol is a health food, marijuana is innocuous, and mushrooms are a good way to deal with your depression. We are worse than ever before. Suicide in young people has gone up 746% since the year 2000. So now we can add in social media and cell phone use where we. We're no longer dripping dopamine, we're dumping dopamine. And when you wear out your dopamine stores by the constant phone, the constant social media, the constant comparison alcohol, marijuana, psilocybin, you just feel bad, bad all the time. And then you get on the app and get on an SSRI and you think you're fine. But there's new research associated SSRI use in older people with dementia. So if I was you, I wouldn't think, oh, this is my happy pill forever. Yeah, I would go, I'm going to figure out how to manage my mind, get really healthy.
- [40:41]
Matt Howard
Yeah.
- [40:41]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And use this as a tool.
- [40:46]
Matt Howard
Yeah.
- [40:46]
Dr. Daniel Amen
A little bit like GLP1 drugs. It's like if you think you're going to use that to manage your weight for the rest of your life, you're going to be in big trouble. Yes, you want to turn off the food noise, but you also want to manage. You want to learn how to manage your mind and manage your body.
- [41:03]
Matt Howard
It's funny you bring that up, because that was actually my very next question. What should I do? As somebody that is currently on antidepressants? I don't want to be on this forever. I want to get off. Even though I'm sure it'll be frustrating to have a high, higher libido again, I'm sure I can manage that. I'm sure I can find natural ways of dealing with that. So what should somebody do that is wanting to get off of antidepressants?
- [41:25]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So make sure you talk to your doctor and love your brain and at some point we'll look at it right. And then balance it. Eat things you love that love you back. Like I love donuts. I could have six and be so happy and I would be fat and inflamed and miserable.
- [41:50]
Abby Howard
I was surprised to hear you say you like. When's the last time you had a donut?
- [41:54]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It's been a long time.
- [41:56]
Matt Howard
In the past five years, have you had a donut?
- [41:58]
Dr. Daniel Amen
No.
- [41:59]
Matt Howard
Oh, my cake, ice cream. The last five years, when I go.
- [42:02]
Dr. Daniel Amen
To Europe, I might have a gelato.
- [42:05]
Matt Howard
But.
- [42:07]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Drew Carey, you know, the comedian Drew Carey, he said it best Eating crappy food isn't a reward, it's a punishment even. I try to love things that love me back. But every night, I make Tana Brain healthy hot chocolate. Like every night. Unsweetened vanilla almond milk, raw cacao, a little bit of chocolate stevia. There's a company I like called Sweet Leaf, and I love it and it loves me back.
- [42:38]
Matt Howard
You seem to be a man of discipline. It seems like discipline plays an important role in your life.
- [42:43]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Like you love plays the biggest role in my life. And I love me and I love Tana and I love my kids. But I realize I never want to have to live with any of them. Right. I want to be clear and independent for as long as I can. I don't want to be a burden, but I don't want to live with them. It's like, no, I want to be in control of me for as long as possible. Right. So I think of it as love that I do the right thing, not as disciplined. And what did I think Lincoln said Discipline was choosing between what you want now versus what you want most.
- [43:38]
Matt Howard
Are you a big fan of Abraham Lincoln?
- [43:40]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Love Lincoln because he failed repeatedly, was depressed, was suicidal twice in his life.
- [43:50]
Matt Howard
Really?
- [43:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah. I was just at the White House and was really fun for me because got to talk to RFK Jr. And. And right next to the Lincoln bedroom.
- [44:00]
Matt Howard
And.
- [44:01]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And I've always been a huge fan of his. And in the winter of 1840, he was depressed, suicidal. He had a political setback, and he went to his doctor in Illinois, Springfield, Illinois. And how did his doctor, Anson Henry, diagnose Lincoln? With melancholia, or what we would now call depression. He talked to him, he looked at him. He looked for symptom clusters the same way your 10 minute doctor did. Right. You told him the symptoms, he gave you the diagnosis, which was basically a regurgitation of your symptoms. And then he diagnosed and treated him. That's insane that we're still doing it the way we did it 185 years ago. But yeah, I love everything about Lincoln from his overcoming a traumatic childhood. And do you know why he was depressed?
- [44:56]
Matt Howard
I'm guessing because of all the really crazy stuff going on back then with the.
- [45:01]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So what a lot of people don't know is when Lincoln was 10, he was kicked in the head by a horse and was unconscious all night long. And he would have visions. So I think of them as temporal lobe problems, probably from the head injury. Depression is a very, very common cause of consequence of concussions. And. But if you don't look. You don't know.
- [45:27]
Matt Howard
Our bedroom is a sanctuary. Abby and I love getting cozy in the sheets. Why are you laughing right now? We love, we love reading our books together.
- [45:38]
Abby Howard
We have very cozy bedroom right now.
- [45:40]
Matt Howard
We've got Cozy Earth sheets, y'.
- [45:42]
Dr. Daniel Amen
All.
- [45:42]
Matt Howard
Okay. They're so soft. They're so comfortable. We've had these for over a year and they're made with like bamboo or something, right?
- [45:49]
Abby Howard
Yeah. Viscose from bamboo. Temperature regulating, which is really nice because sleeping next to Matt Howard, if you haven't done it is like sleeping next to a room heater.
- [45:58]
Matt Howard
A furnace.
- [45:59]
Dr. Daniel Amen
A furnace.
- [46:01]
Abby Howard
And so I am always running cold. So it's nice to have that to support different types of sleep styles and patterns. Cozy Earth also has a cuddle blanket that I am obsessed with. We've draped it over our sectional in our living room. It is so luxurious, you guys. It offers a combination of comfort and style and we love cozying up to that at the night when we're watching our show after the kids go to bed.
- [46:21]
Matt Howard
And the great thing about Cozy Earth is it's a risk free purchase. There's a 100 night sleep trial. You try them out and if you don't love them, return them hassle free. But trust me, you won't want to.
- [46:33]
Abby Howard
I'm always recommending Cozy Earth confidently because they offer a 10 year warranty. Because once you feel comfort of this level, you'll want it to last a decade.
- [46:43]
Matt Howard
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- [47:21]
Abby Howard
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Matt Howard
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Abby Howard
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- [48:08]
Matt Howard
Visit Cash app LegalPodcast for full disclosures. I actually got on antidepressants not too long after I had my third concussion. So my first concussion, I was wrestling a guy in college. We were messing around. He shoved me into a cabinet, whacked my head, got a concussion. Second one was actually a year ago this month. I was in Abby's group fitness class. Fell backwards on this soft off, you know, plush matte, thinking I was just gonna like roll just like normal. And there was a metal kettlebell right there that smacked my head. It started gushing blood. Second concussion, third one. Went on a surf trip to Nicaragua with some friends. Took a fiberglass surfboard to the face.
- [48:49]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Maybe your depression is really post concussive. Could be. And Zoloft's not the right long term treatment for that. Hyperbaric oxygen imaging. Because how do you, how do you know unless you look. I mean, I can't say that over and over and over again. We put people in a hyperbaric chamber and put their brain in a healing environment. So I don't know if we talked about it last time, but I did the first and largest study on active and retired NFL players. So I've scanned and treated 400 NFL players.
- [49:22]
Matt Howard
Unreal.
- [49:23]
Dr. Daniel Amen
80% of our players got better when we put them on a rehabilitation program. Really good omega 3 fatty acids. A really great multiple vitamin A brain boost that works in six different ways. Avoid bad things, do good things. And for many of them, we put them in a hyperbaric chamber. I don't know if you know Joe Polish. He's also in Arizona. He's I love marketing and he runs something called the Genius Network. He came to see me because he had an addiction and he got a baseball to his head when he was 10. You could see the evidence of the trauma and went in a hyperbaric chamber, took the supplements. Dramatically better. Wow. You are not stuck with the brain you have. You can make it better.
- [50:13]
Abby Howard
I would love to circle the conversation back to social media because we have Little kids. And there's actually a school in Arizona. We're going back and forth what we want to do with schooling with our kids. We're doing home stuff right now and for the foreseeable future. But we're like down the line. It might be good for them to do social interactions at school. I think that's very important for their development. But there's a school near us that actually makes it a school policy that none of the kids can have social media if you attend that school, like no one can have social media. And that reminded me, I heard you say before, talking about applying neuroscience to public policy. And there's a country that banned social media for everyone.
- [50:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Australia.
- [50:51]
Abby Howard
Australia, okay.
- [50:52]
Dr. Daniel Amen
For our kids under 16.
- [50:53]
Abby Howard
Yeah, I think that's, I mean I.
- [50:55]
Dr. Daniel Amen
There's a direct correlation to suicide and social media and cell phones.
- [51:01]
Abby Howard
Yeah.
- [51:01]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So brand new study that kids who got cell phone at the age of five, when they're 20, they have a 50% chance of having suicidal ideation. 5, 0, 1 and 2 that the earlier kids get cell phones, the more messed up they are. Why in Silicon Valley are there nanny contracts that go, you cannot be on your phone around the child and you cannot let the child have access to devices. Why would that be from the people who created this stuff that they go, oh it's not good for my kids. So if they know it's not good for your kids, it's not good for your kids.
- [51:44]
Abby Howard
It's so scary for me because we were just in high school when I feel like social media was first picking up and it has since obviously changed dramatically, gotten so much more all consuming. I'm curious like how you anticipate people like in our generation, like what our brains will look like when we're elderly because of this constant social media consumption.
- [52:05]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So conscientiousness, the one predictor of longevity is going down in your generation, Agreeableness is going down in your generation. And we don't recognize that social media companies, there's this great documentary, if you haven't seen it, you should called the Social Dilemma. How these companies for profit are purposefully pissing you off that if you're mad, if you're sad, if you're anxious, you stay on longer. And ultimately the only thing they want is mind share and they want your attention for as long as possible. And so what they do is they take people who are like center right but then they'll just feed them right content. Pretty soon that center right person is more moderately right, but that moderate right person is now Far right, the same thing's true. The center left person is now moderately left, in the moderate left person is now radically left. And it's an unintended consequence for money of dividing us into this really insane, hateful place that we have gotten to that people celebrating the assassination of, you know, a young right star. It's just unconscionable to me, but it happens on both sides. Yeah, right. It's not a left issue or a right issue. It's a social media mind manipulation. So they can sell you stuff.
- [53:56]
Matt Howard
Can these devices, I know we've talked about social media and how damaging that can be, but can these devices be used for good as well? Because the reason I ask our son, I'm, I'm so proud of him. He's three, he's doing like a little bit of school every week. He goes two days a week to this little, you know, small home school that we set up with our friends. And he recently, actually, I think this was just a couple days ago. By far, best in the class when it came to drawing all of his letters. He just like traced every letter. And he's three, so like most three year olds can't, you know, he just turned three. So it was just very impressive that he almost perfectly traced every letter. And the reason he was able to do that was because about, I don't know, 10 days ago, 14 days ago, I started using this learning application on our iPad with him called ABC Mouse. And so it's been interesting though because he's learned so much from this learning program, ABC Mouse. But I've noticed how addicted he is to the learning games. Even though it's okay which one is greater, the, the three acorns or the two pigs. And he'll do all these games. But there's something about the technology aspect that does get him glued to the screen. So how do you balance that?
- [55:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
As a parent, I would take away the screen. There's a really good book called the Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt. And the more access they have to devices, the more it's going to wear out the dopamine in their brain. The more they'll get addicted to it and the more problems they're going to feel. And as his parents, you are going to feel right. Because when you struggle with the kids, you feel terrible. If it was me, I would get paper and draw the letters out with him. And the less screen time, the more attention he will build. Naturally, the more screen time, the less attention he will build.
- [55:57]
Matt Howard
You know, like looking at myself, right. I Love to learn. I think learning. So much fun. And so when I go to learn something, I'll go on YouTube and listen to a three hour podcast about a very niche topic that I just want to nerd out about. You know, in the same way, when I'm looking at my kids, if they're using some sort of technology that's supervised, that's educating them, I view it as a net positive. And do you disagree with that? Do you think that. Okay, yeah.
- [56:23]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I think you have to be so careful because they're so reinforcing that kids get addicted to it and then they get unhappy and they go through withdrawal without it. Your brain is mostly finished developing. His brain is undergoing wild development. And much better that he's outside, he's playing, or that you're teaching him off the devices. The more you do it on the devices, the more dependent he is going to be for that exciting, stimulating way of learning.
- [57:04]
Abby Howard
I am so curious what other types of public policy you'd like to see put in place that has neuroscience in mind.
- [57:12]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So California passed a law that school, high school, cannot start before 8:30 in the morning because we know kids who get less sleep have a higher incidence of anxiety, depression and suicide. And I love that. It's simple, but it's smart. I think brain health education should be in every grade. I had to learn English in every grade. Right. But I didn't learn one thing, how to love and care for my brain. And I think it's just absolutely critical. I think looking at all of, of the ingredients and products, I think we should really take a critical look at phthalates and parabens and fragrance and aspartame.
- [58:02]
Abby Howard
Yeah, you. I, I'm so curious what you have to say about aspartame, because isn't that what's in Diet Coke that like all.
- [58:08]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Of us are like sodas? Yeah.
- [58:10]
Abby Howard
Yeah.
- [58:11]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So aspartame in 5,000 products. When I was 35, I had pain and my hands and my knees and I had trouble getting off the floor playing with my smaller children. And one of my patients and, and I think the people who've taught me the most about what I do are the people I serve. It's been my patients. And I said, one woman said, I stopped aspartame and my pain went away. And I'm like, really? Because I thought it was free. Right. It's no calories. Lunchtime, I. There was Jack in the box across the street from me and I didn't care anything about my own brain. So I'd have lunch at Jack in the Box and I'd have a 32 ounce diet Pepsi like every day. And I'm in chronic pain and I'm like, maybe I should stop that. And so I did and the pain went away. And then I'm not that smart, so I had to test it. And so I got another one. And then the pain immediately came back and I'm like, like done with aspartame. They gave mice aspartame.
- [59:16]
Abby Howard
That Coke I know that's like every mom's favorite drink.
- [59:19]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And they liked it.
- [59:20]
Abby Howard
I don't know if I want to hear this.
- [59:21]
Matt Howard
Have you heard about Utah soda culture?
- [59:25]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And they liked it, but they got really anxious and they gave them Valium, a benzo, and it calmed them down. But the really bad part of this study, their babies were anxious and the babies were never exposed to aspartame. It had an epigenetic change. It turned on some switches that created anxiety in their babies. Their grandbabies were anxious. Aspartame unleashed 19815000 products. So if you just like chewing gum, most gum has aspartame in it. And I just think we should do thoughtful studies rather than studies sponsored by Coca Cola or sponsored by the food industry, that they have very powerful lobbyists that are paying lots of money for the government not to look into these things. And I'm sort of a huge fan of RFK Jr and go, let's get petroleum based dyes out of our. I mean, if you can't buy it in Europe, why can you buy it here? Yeah, right. I mean, if they're like blocking things, I'm not a fan of red dye.
- [60:42]
Matt Howard
You've said there's quite a few things that you're happy with what RFK Jr is doing. I'm curious though, with how you spoke about mushrooms earlier. I want to say RFK is, you know, working to legalize psilocybin in the country for those, you know, war veterans, people that have suffered from ptsd. And talk to me more about that. Like, are there any areas like that where you maybe disagree with rfk?
- [61:08]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, I'm very concerned about the psilocybin stuff. I think it's going to be helpful to some people and it's going to devastate other people. There's not enough caution in the discussion because as the idea of the dangerousness of a drug goes down, its use goes up because people don't know how to manage their minds. And so they're always looking to escape their own mind. And I'm like, why don't you just make friends with it? Why Just, you know, give your mind a name and don't believe every stupid.
- [61:44]
Matt Howard
Thing you making friends.
- [61:46]
Abby Howard
Gosh, we never got the name of your mind.
- [61:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Hermie.
- [61:51]
Abby Howard
Hermie.
- [61:52]
Dr. Daniel Amen
That was the raccoon. It was. She was a girl. She actually. Big hussy got pregnant. Wow. I mean I raised her with morals and oh my goodness got out one night and then had seven babies. But anyways. And she. I loved her and she was great for picking up girls because just take her out on her leash and oh, she's.
- [62:19]
Abby Howard
What kind of girls is a rat?
- [62:22]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Oh, so many. And take her to the beach and like actually I did want to ask.
- [62:27]
Abby Howard
You this because going through grief and loss, the. It feels like the natural stage that we're in now is like maybe we get a dog that feels like a good. Is there some connection? There's got to be something to that.
- [62:43]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Having an animal often is very settling to the brain if you pick one that's rational and loving. Like I have a white shepherd and I am just so completely in love with her. Right. It took a lot of work to train her. But yeah, when I work out, she like lays right next to me.
- [63:11]
Abby Howard
Okay, we got to clear from Dr.
- [63:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I think that can be helpful. But you also want to make sure it's not a reaction because it's a 12 or 15 year decision and. And they can be stressful. So you just want to sort of reneg. Judge your band with. And then if you're really smart and you get a dog, make sure you have a really good trainer and that you. Because the trainer is not for the dog, the trainer is for you. Just like training your mind right. You have to be really thoughtful with a puppy.
- [63:52]
Abby Howard
I have kind of a dumb question that's been nagging me ever since the beginning when you were talking about pain and like headaches. So bear with me.
- [63:59]
Matt Howard
There's no dumb question.
- [64:00]
Abby Howard
Can you think so hard that you get a headache? Because I swear sometimes I'm like, I thought way too much today. That's what this. That's what's causing this.
- [64:09]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You can't. What does thought. Thinking negatively.
- [64:12]
Abby Howard
No. Like if you're like trying to learn something or grapple with something, negotiate like a hard concept in your mind. Can it literally cause physical pain in your head?
- [64:22]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, if the focus with stress will cause the tension to get worse, yeah. Have you ever been hypnotized? Never. So I have an app called Brain Fit Life. It's got six soon to be 18 hypnosis audios. And many of the new ones are for pain.
- [64:45]
Abby Howard
Yes, I have.
- [64:46]
Matt Howard
When you were giving birth, I did a hypnosis. Yeah, hypnobirthing. Yeah, Meditation.
- [64:51]
Abby Howard
Meditation. It actually worked.
- [64:54]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So what I would do, especially if you're prone to headaches, is every day just spend 10 to 20 minutes listening to a hypnosis audio and training your brain how to get into a relaxed hypnotic state. Because it'll lower your cortisol levels. And your muscles are telling you something that your brain is sending too many stress signals to your body. And so just being in a hypnotic state helps to settle that down. And then on top of that, I would add diaphragmatic breathing. So diaphragmatic breathing is just breathing with your belly. And it's so simple. Four seconds in, just take a big breath, but blow up your belly when you breathe in. If you ever watch a baby breathe or a puppy breathe, they breathe exclusively here because it's the most efficient way to breathe. But then eight seconds out. So take twice as long to breathe out as you breathe in. And for people who have a smartwatch, often measure heart rate variability, which is a sign of heart health. And if you can increase it, and you increase it with things like hypnosis and diaphragmatic breathing and meditation, you're just training your body. It's like, girl, you've been thinking too much, or girl, you're too hard on yourself. We need to be the good mother to ourselves, right? Nurture, love, quiet your busy brain.
- [66:38]
Abby Howard
How do you tap into a hypnosis? Like, it's easy. I think I'm thinking about my labor experience it like, it was crazy. I was hypnotized for like, how long was that? That was listening to that?
- [66:50]
Matt Howard
Maybe 45 minutes. Because you forgot to let them know that you need another epidermis.
- [66:54]
Abby Howard
I came out of it and then they were like, okay, it's time to push. And I was like, oh, I'm in so much pain. And I'm wondering if that same thing would occur like in. If I were to do this day.
- [67:05]
Matt Howard
With a migraine or something, like during.
- [67:06]
Abby Howard
The day where if I'm like, okay, yeah, I was in that really relaxed state. I did that practice in the morning. Here I am in the afternoon. My to do list is long. How do you tap back into that without, like, do you just stop everything and enter the.
- [67:20]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Four diaphragmatic breasts?
- [67:23]
Abby Howard
Okay.
- [67:24]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Lay on your back or sit in a chair and they're like a 15 second breath. So like that's a Minute and go somewhere in your mind that you love. Like, I can immediately do it and go to the beach or go to the mountain. Mountains. Or go to Jackson, Wyoming, which is so pretty. It's just, I'm gonna work to train my brain to help me. And if we did a lot more of that in this society, we'd be a lot happier.
- [68:03]
Abby Howard
You tap back into that and then.
- [68:05]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Don'T listen to things that piss you off. Whether it's the news or social media that's meant to keep your attention. Just watch. You know, I think people listen. Just watch your feed on how much of it is. Oh, I really like that. Versus, that really makes me mad.
- [68:25]
Matt Howard
Can you offset your vices? So let me give you an example. I know of somebody in my life, they practically drink a beer every day, but they also run every single day. They never miss a day. And so it's like, okay, alcohol not good for your brain. But then running good for your brain.
- [68:43]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So let me answer it this way. I've seen 400 NFL players, some of them active players. They have $80 million contracts. They're still going to play. It's like, if you're going to do something bad, you need to outweigh it with a whole bunch of good. So Tom Brady played until he was 45. He wrote a book called TB12, which is basically a brain health book. Virtually everything else he did was great. Or we're just finishing on firefighter study after the LA fires and was so awful. Our foundation, we have a foundation called the change your brain foundation that raises money for service and research and education. We donated a hundred scans for firefighters because they all have bad brains. But does that mean they're not going to be a firefighter because of the toxic exposure, the emotional trauma, the head trauma? No, we need firefighters. But what should happen is they should love their brain and they should always be rehabilitating it. So, you know, if you want to keep your vices, just. See, I mean, you really can't outrun a bad diet, right? But try to do way more good than bad, and the more love you have for yourself, the less bad you'll want to do.
- [70:10]
Matt Howard
Is there something that we haven't discussed that people need to know? Like, just, you know, final thoughts?
- [70:16]
Abby Howard
I know you had a sex question you wanted to.
- [70:17]
Matt Howard
I had a sex question I wanted to ask.
- [70:19]
Dr. Daniel Amen
What was it?
- [70:19]
Matt Howard
I can't.
- [70:20]
Abby Howard
I don't know. We were talking about. I was like, I want to bring this up. I'm trying to figure out a way. I was like you wrote a whole book about love and the brain. Feel like he's got lots of a wealth of knowledge on that topic.
- [70:33]
Matt Howard
Oh man.
- [70:34]
Dr. Daniel Amen
The best fourth play is forethought.
- [70:40]
Matt Howard
Okay?
- [70:41]
Dr. Daniel Amen
No forethought equals no foreplay. Right? That's why you want to have good frontal lobes. Because you know, for guys we can get aroused almost anytime. Girls are way different and, and they need thoughtfulness. And so you always want to ask yourself this one question. What do you want? Like with my wife, I always want the same thing. It's always the same thing. I want a kind, caring, loving, supportive, passionate relationship. A hundred percent of the time I want that. But I don't always feel it. Rude thoughts just show up and I block them because it's like that's not going to get your goal. And the other thing, notice what you like more than what you don't like. Every day you're shaping each other's behavior by what you notice. And you know you can make her mad, you can make her sad by what you say or what you do. But that doesn't fit the goal because odds are you guys have the same goals I have. Most of my patients have the same goal. Kind, caring, loving, supportive, passionate relationship. And it just supervise what comes out of your mouth right now. If you drank, those bad thoughts are more likely to come out. If you didn't sleep the night before, those bad thoughts are going to come out. If you're grieving, those bad thoughts are more likely to come out. But if you just focus on noticing what you like more than what you don't, it just could change the quality of your relationship in a good way.
- [72:25]
Abby Howard
It all connects back, really does.
- [72:28]
Matt Howard
Dr. Amen, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. If you guys haven't definitely pre order his his new book Change youe Brain, Change youe Pain can they can pre order it, right?
- [72:39]
Dr. Daniel Amen
That's a pre order. Okay. And if they go to Change youe Brain, Change youe Pain book, we actually have have four free gifts for them. Even a 30 day online pain course is great. And the Emotional Freedom Journal which is how do you get the rage out? And omega 3 fatty acid supplement.
- [73:02]
Matt Howard
Very cool. Dr. Aman, thank you so much.
- [73:05]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So great to see you guys again.
- [73:07]
Matt Howard
Likewise.
- [73:08]
Dr. Daniel Amen
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