Growing up Duggar, 19 Kids and Counting, and cutting my dad out of my life w/ Amy Duggar King & Dillon King

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: Growing up Duggar, 19 Kids and Counting, and cutting my dad out of my life w/ Amy Duggar King & Dillon King
Release Date: December 10, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode features an open and vulnerable conversation with Amy Duggar King—known from "19 Kids and Counting"—and her husband Dillon King. Amy shares her unique experience as the Duggar cousin, discusses growing up on the outskirts of the famous family and the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) subculture, and speaks candidly about setting boundaries in toxic family relationships, including cutting off her father and distancing from her famous uncle Jim Bob Duggar. The episode delves into themes of healing, boundaries, generational trauma, and self-acceptance, while also exploring funny and sweet anecdotes from Amy and Dillon's marriage and parenting.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Amy's Duggar Identity and Show Involvement

• Amy’s entry into the show: She recounts being pulled "by accident" into the TV world, unexpectedly joining a filmed scene at her grandmother’s house (05:17).
• Contract confusion: Amy signed a contract without legal advice, trusting her uncle Jim Bob—which resulted in her receiving no payment for her recurring appearances and being obligated to show up for filming on short notice (06:16–07:48).
  • Quote (Amy): "What I signed was no payment at all… and that I would just film whenever they needed to be." (06:44)
• Amy’s label: She was branded “Crazy Cousin Amy” on the show, unexpectedly discovering this title on the TV screen (14:36–15:25).

2. Life on the Fringe: Family Dynamics & IBLP Teachings

• Amy's upbringing: Explains the contrast between her “normal” upbringing and her Dugger cousins, emphasizing her mom’s decision to keep her out of IBLP (Institute in Basic Life Principles)—a fundamentalist Christian group with strict rules about gender, behavior, and separation from secular society (09:48–11:53).
  • Quote (Amy): "They don’t teach the word abuse... They literally teach that women should stay meek, mild and silent." (09:48)
• Surface-level relationships: Despite spending time together, Amy describes her relationships with her cousins as surface-level, with little space for deep vulnerability (13:29–13:56).
  • Quote (Amy): "It wasn’t really heartfelt… We never really talked about the things we were struggling with." (13:39)
• Outsider status: Amy was considered “the wild one” for wearing jeans and having a bubbly personality (14:29–15:25).

3. Coping with Family Judgment and Boundaries

• “Out of wedlock” introduction: Amy shares how her uncle would introduce her as having been born out of wedlock, attaching a label of “sin” to her identity (21:53–23:24).
  • Quote (Amy): "There, there. They’ve got such a wonderful life. And I’m just like, hey, I’m just a wild card over here." (23:24)
• Navigating two worlds: She reflects on feeling different and how her choices—wearing jeans, participating in “normal” life—felt transgressive in the Duggar context.
• Observing dysfunction: Amy describes witnessing family pain in both the Duggar world (through silent suffering) and her own home (through her father’s abuse).

4. Breaking Toxic Cycles & Healing

• Cutting out her father: Amy reveals years of emotional abuse from her father—controlling behavior, threats of violence, and destruction of belongings. The couple ultimately made the difficult decision to permanently cut her father out of their lives for their own safety and the well-being of their child (45:16–86:36).
  • Quote (Dillon): "I’m not going to let that into my own life… we asked him straight up… you’re not welcome at our house." (85:33–86:13)
  • Quote (Amy): "If someone tells you over and over how they want to end your life... you cannot, you know, threaten my life. That’s not gonna work." (86:36–88:17)
• Boundaries with the Duggars: After multiple family scandals and repeated dishonesty from Jim Bob Duggar regarding abuse and legal investigations, Amy and Dillon decided to block Jim Bob and distance themselves from most of the Duggar family, except for cousins like Jill who broke away (41:00–62:17).
• Generational trauma: Through faith, therapy, and strict boundaries, Amy and Dillon have worked to break cycles of trauma and abuse and ensure a healthy environment for their son (42:57–43:55).

5. Highlighting Scandals, Family Secrets, and the Role of IBLP

• Three major scandals: Amy references Josh Duggar's offences, the Ashley Madison leak, and an unnamed “devastating, disgusting” event as the backdrop to family silence and denial; details were kept from Amy and Dillon, with Jim Bob offering implausible explanations (56:25–58:40).
  • Quote (Dillon): "Homeland Security doesn’t show up randomly because they’re confused on where they’re at." (58:18)
• The price of honesty: Speaking out about abuse and dysfunction, Amy has encountered shunning and “closed doors” from much of her extended family, but she remains open to reconnecting with cousins who want authenticity.

6. Reclaiming Her Voice, Friendship with Jill Duggar, & The Healing Process

• Support from Jill Duggar: Amy describes her close bond with cousin Jill, how they now have a genuine family-like connection, and mutual encouragement in redefining their faith and personal choices—such as wearing pants and getting tattoos (37:18–40:28).
  • Quote (Amy): "Cousinship is so much fun. Like, we can joke around and laugh... It’s such a different way of living compared to really what we had growing up. And so it’s actual, like, true family." (39:54)
• Relief in authenticity: Amy shares the freedom of finally being herself, not fitting the IBLP/Duggar mold, and the acceptance she’s found in new relationships and her marriage.

7. Amy & Dillon’s Relationship, Marriage & Parenting

• Meeting Story: Amy and Dillon met at a bar and became best friends for six years before dating. They describe the comical culture clash of introducing Dillon to her extended Duggar family (30:03–34:05).
• Their wedding: Out of respect for the Duggars, the wedding began conservatively, but once the music switched and the bar opened, all Duggar relatives left en masse (72:29–75:24).
  • Quote (Dillon): "We had the DJ come on and say, everyone, we’re going from classy to trashy in about five minutes." (73:24)
• Parenting & healing: Amy stresses that a big part of becoming a gentle and present mother was her commitment to healing her own childhood wounds before having a child (97:13).

8. Messages of Hope, Boundaries, and Support

• Amy encourages listeners in similar situations to rely on faith, trust their instincts, and believe in their right to peace and safety. Her book, Holy Disruptor, has already helped readers recognize the need for boundaries and escape abusive relationships, as evidenced by messages she’s received (106:26–107:33).
  • Quote (Amy): "Looking at the people in your life and being like: who is healthy, who is loving me, who makes my heart feel happy? Those are the people that we should have in our inner circle." (108:05)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being labeled “out of wedlock”:
  "My uncle used to be like, this is Amy, and she was born out of wedlock."
  — Amy Duggar King (01:29, 22:00)
• On the IBLP’s teachings:
  "They don’t teach the word abuse... They literally teach that women should stay meek, mild and silent."
  — Amy Duggar King (09:48)
• On being the “wild” cousin:
  "My title on the show was Crazy Cousin Amy... I had no idea because I’m not wild and I’m not that crazy."
  — Amy Duggar King (14:36)
• On boundaries and healing:
  "If someone tells you over and over how they want to end your life... you cannot, you know, threaten my life. That’s not gonna work."
  — Amy Duggar King (86:36)
• On leaving family relationships:
  "You block toxic people, no matter if they're friends or family... Family can also be chosen."
  — Amy Duggar King (88:51–89:32)
• On reconciliation:
  "No, the door is always open. And it’s something that I would literally welcome if they want to have a real, you know, heart to heart conversation."
  — Amy Duggar King (93:30)
• On hope for her father:
  "I would say that my life is at peace now. And I don’t have any, like, bad, hard feelings toward him. I just... I wish him all the best, and I hope that healing is possible and hopefully his life."
  — Amy Duggar King (108:34)

---

Important Segments & Select Timestamps

• Amy’s intro as “born out of wedlock”: 01:29, 22:00
• On shiny happy people/IBLP: 03:07–03:51, 09:48–11:23
• Amy’s accidental TV debut: 04:19–05:37
• Filming without pay: 06:16–08:33
• Family surface-level relationships: 13:29–13:56
• “Crazy Cousin Amy” show label: 14:36–15:25
• Marriage and wedding stories: 30:03–34:05, 72:29–75:24
• Boundaries with abusive father: 45:16–46:55, 85:08–86:36
• The big Duggar scandals: 56:25–58:40
• No-contact and blocking family: 88:04, 88:17–88:51
• Close relationship with Jill: 37:18–40:28, 63:34–66:33
• Messages of hope and healing: 106:26–108:13

---

Tone & Atmosphere

The tone is direct, honest, empathetic, and at times lighthearted—even amid serious subject matter. Amy is unguarded about her pain but also about her silliness and joys. Dillon brings both humor and fierce protectiveness throughout. Matt & Abby are compassionate, relatable, and offer a warm, conversational space. Moments discussing trauma are handled with reverence; lighter anecdotes and marital banter balance the heaviness.

---

Final Takeaways

• Boundaries are essential, even (or especially) with family, when health and safety are at stake.
• Healing from generational trauma takes intentionality, faith, and outside help (therapy, supportive partners).
• Speaking out and sharing your story empowers others—Amy's book and openness have already inspired people to pursue safety and self-respect.
• Family is who truly loves and accepts you, not just who shares your blood.
• There is hope after pain: Amy models forgiveness, letting go, and an open door for healthy relationships in the future.

---

For further detail and Amy’s full story, check out her book Holy Disruptor—available wherever books are sold.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Can we all just unanimously agree that fall is the best season for fashion? As the weather gets colder, it allows for cute, cozy sweaters, boots, denims. I love every bit of it. And Quince delivers layers that last. Sweaters, outerwear and everyday essentials that feel luxurious, look timeless and make holiday dressing effortless. Quint's has it all. $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear. Denim that never goes out of style. Summer silk tops and skirts that add polish and down outerwear built to take on the season. Perfect for gifting or upgrading your own wardrobe. Honestly, Quinn's Italian wool coats are at the top of my list. The cuts feel designer and the quality rivals high end brands, but without the high end markup. By working directly with ethical top tier factories, Quince skips the middleman and offers prices 50% less than similar brands. I love Quince specifically for wardrobe staples. I even got Matt some really nice navy pants that he can dress up for formal events that we have coming up around the holidays. And I pick myself out some shoes from Quinn's that I have been wearing a lot. As we transition into these colder months, step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and last. From Quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.comUnplanned for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.comUnplanned to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comUnplanned My uncle used to be like.

[Amy Duggar King]

This is Amy and she was born out of wedlock.

[Host 2]

He would introduce you like that.

[Amy Duggar King]

I wore jeans for heaven's sakes. I mean I was a walking sin.

[Host 2]

What was filming shiny happy people like.

[Dylan King]

It was eye opening for me.

[Amy Duggar King]

He did.

[Dylan King]

I got the biggest like education of the IBLP during that.

[Amy Duggar King]

They don't teach the word abuse. They literally teach that women should stay meek, mild and silent. In my heart of hearts, I kind of knew that something was off. I reached out to my uncle and I just said, hey, is she okay?

[Dylan King]

Homeland just showed up at our house asking us questions about your son. What the heck is going on?

[Host 2]

We sat down with Amy Duggar King and her husband Dylan from the hit TV show 19 Kids and Counting. As a Duggar, Amy was exposed to the cult like teachings of the IBLP and opened up about it in a recent Amazon documentary. And in her new book, Holy Disruptor, she unpacks her childhood we talk about her rough relationship with her Uncle Jim Bob, not getting paid for her involvement in the TV show, and her decision to cut her father out of her life, all on today's episode.

Amy Duggar King and Dylan King, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

[Amy Duggar King]

We're really excited to be here to talk to you guys.

[Host 2]

I'm excited as well. I was watching a documentary that you guys were in two years ago, Shiny Happy People, and was just like blown away by what I was hearing. Cuz some of the stuff when it comes to iblp, when it comes to, you know, cults in America, like, I just grew up not thinking that was like even a thing. I think my eyes, yeah, my eyes were really open to just some stories that I, I hope we can talk about today and hopefully help some people that might be like disentangling leaving a cult or not having a family member and they're working through something like that. But yeah, what was, what was filming Shiny Happy People?

[Amy Duggar King]

Like when Amazon prime calls you, you answer that phone call.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

So it was just like, hey, we're working on this documentary. We'd love for you to be a part of it. I think it was eye opening. I think it was liberating. I think it helped a lot of people. I think it's still helping a ton.

[Dylan King]

Of eye opening for me.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes, he did.

[Dylan King]

I got the biggest, like, the biggest, like, education, like dump of the IBLP during that whole entire show.

[Host 2]

So you had no idea.

[Dylan King]

I mean, I knew a little bit obviously from like her, her family, that kind of thing, but they were asking questions and I was like, like, so like if you're watching it, like my expressions of me being like being like what they do, that that's real. I'm not, that's not faking, like, that's like I learned stuff through shooting the show, like in the moment.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Dylan King]

So even, like, even like I, like we went back after, we got, after everything was done, we went back and actually watched it. Okay. I watch it going, what? Like, where was that at? Like, how did that happen? So like it was a massive education for me and Amy.

[Host 2]

Fill people in. Because when I first saw your book came out, I was like, wait, I hadn't. I thought all the, all the Duggars had J names. Like, where did, where did Amy come from? So like kind of fill people in on like your relation to the family and how, like how you were on the show back in the day.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. So I am the cousin.

My maiden name growing up in elementary school and all that was Amy Duggar. And then I was on the show kind of by accident, and I talk about that in my book, but basically I was asked. I'll just. You mean tell you the story of, like, what happened? Okay. So my grandma invited me to the house. I was gonna pick her up for an appointment, and she was like, no, no, you need to come inside. You know, I need you in here. Well, it was when they were filming, the camera was going on all the things, and I've always stayed away from, you know, all that.

[Host 1]

It's just.

[Amy Duggar King]

That's their life, you know, I understand. Like, I never wanted to really be a part of it. Never asked, nothing like that. And so I walked in and it was when my uncle was asking, who wants to be the chaperone for Josh and Anna? And in that moment, I mean, can I just be honest? They're. They're like grown adults. They don't need a babysitter, right? I mean, you don't need a babysitter if you're, like, going to be engaged, right?

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

And so I kind of, like, laughed a little bit. I kind of was just like. And I just. I just could not help it. And the producer noticed it and he was like, who are you? And I was like, I'm Amy. I'm just trying to get to grandma's room. And he was like, huh, why don't you jump on camera? And that's really how the whole thing began, which is wild.

[Host 2]

So when you first started filming on the show and making appearances, you weren't like, under contract. There wasn't anything signed. It was just like, you're on the show and then all that, like, legal stuff happened after the fact, right?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, yeah. I was on the show for probably about a month before it ever dawned on me, like, oh, wait a second, I need to probably sign something or whatever. And so, yeah, a contract was sent my way and. And, And I signed it kind of blindly.

[Host 2]

So I want to say you've spoken about that contract and what you signed. It seemed, from what I read and heard, you didn't really know what you were signing. When did you find out what the contract actually said?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, I signed it. I trusted my uncle thinking that, like, he would have my best interest at heart. You know, I was young, I couldn't afford a lawyer, that kind of thing. And I knew that he's already dealt with contracts, and he was just so well spoken and full of wisdom and that kind of thing that I was like, okay, this is going to be, you know, he's going to have really good insight and great advice. And I think it could have gone a little better because what I signed.

What I signed was no payment at all for my. In being involved in it and, and that I would just film whenever they needed to be.

[Host 2]

Whoa.

[Host 1]

So there were times where you were like, asked to film when you were like, I had other plans. Like, I wasn't planning on being at the house this day.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it definitely. There was like a schedule. Like, I think on Tuesdays and Thursdays were like the days that, you know, we did interviews, then we filmed and that kind of thing. But there was trips. I mean, there was trips that lasted a week or two weeks sometimes. And in those moments they're like, we need, we need you. And I'm like, okay. And so. Which was crazy because I couldn't really keep a, like a full time job, but I was a nanny on the side, so I worked with like 20 different families in the area who understood my crazy life. And so I could just leave at a drop of the hat and then come back and help them whenever I was back. So it worked out. But I mean, yeah, there was, there was some times where I was like, how am I going to, like, pay for gas to even get to the house?

[Host 2]

How did you find out that you weren't getting paid for the show? Like, did you know when you signed that contract that you, that you knew there was no payment at all?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, I didn't know until maybe like a week later. Okay. And I just started to like, I don't even remember how it happened. I was talking to my grandma one day and I was just like, I don't, I don't think this is a good thing that I signed. And so she had a lawyer look at it, a family friend, and they were like, oh, yeah, this is, this is way more involved than you thought.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Was someone in the, from the network involved in the signing or was it simply just your family that was involved? And here's the paperwork.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, they sent it over. They like emailed, like the network emailed over. And then my uncle, you know, presented it to me. That kind of thing.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

And I'll be honest, the network was great. They were, they really were great people to work with and I really enjoyed it. But at the same time, I probably should have hired a little lawyer to look at the contract.

[Dylan King]

Well, I would say, like, sign the network, like, because, like, even the network, like, if you read like Jill's book.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dylan King]

Which was kind of breaks it down too. Like, like the whole thing is like the network was doing what agreement they had with like, Jim Bob.

[Amy Duggar King]

Right.

[Dylan King]

So, like, they sent the stuff to Jim Bob. Jim Bob gave it to all the different kids.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Obviously, going through Jill's book, it's now kind of public that that didn't happen. Right. Jim Bob never passed anything down to the kids.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

So kind of the same format that happened with her, like.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

He was like, hey, here's the deal. Like, you either get cast or you have papers that basically, like, you sign like a release form for me on the show.

[Host 2]

Gotcha.

[Dylan King]

You know, she got a contract basically, that was casted.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Which went to Jim Bob and the Jim Bob. You know, to the kids. Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Tell me more about shiny happy people as well. Because I think, at least from. From. From my generation and like, people my age, like, I would say, like, that was like a big realization of what happened on the show. Learning about how this show essentially promoted IBLP teachings. Talk to me more about. About that or maybe fill people in on, you know, people out there that don't know what that is.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. So IBLP is a teaching. They have a leader named Bill Gothard. There's a lot of good things in the IBO iblp, if I'm going to be really honest with you. There's a lot of good things as far as, like, you know, home and being family oriented and just loving each other. And there's a lot of stuff like that. But what they don't teach and the things that are sc Is that they don't teach, like the word abuse. They don't teach, like, if someone is, you know, hurting you or disrespecting you, don't speak up. They literally teach that women should stay meek, mild and silent. And so when someone already has that in their family origin, something's going on with the brother or dad or grandpa or whatever, they're taught not to say anything.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

And so. And they're not allowed to get counseling. So let's say something with the note.

[Host 2]

There's no counseling. It like.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, no, they don't believe in, like, outside counseling. They believe that you have to talk to, like, an IBLP member and you have to talk within your circle because the outside world is scary and harmful and sinful and that could lead you away from God. And so it's just really sad if there's already, like, someone that has a. Has a, you know, a really big problem and they do something that is going to hurt someone. Right.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

And it's emotional abuse, it's physical abuse, it's sexual abuse. It could be anything. And if it isn't talked about, then it's shame, it's guilt. And, you know, someone is just broken.

[Host 2]

So, Amy, growing up, you weren't a part of the iblp, but you saw your cousins, your family. That was. How did your parents talk to you about that?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, my mom is the one that was just like, hey, listen, like, what they do over in this house is. Is what they do. But we love them and, you know, we respect it. I respected it growing up. You know, I. It was a whole different kind of world. It really was. You guys, there was classical music playing. Kids are playing chess.

[Host 2]

Finds that actually so dope, though. Like, you walk. You walk into a house, it's like this big compound, this whole family, they're listening to classical music. It's play. One of the kids is playing it on the piano. Like, people would be playing piano.

[Amy Duggar King]

Most of the kids playing and, like, singing hymns.

[Host 2]

Wait, that's actually so dope. Why is that so cool?

[Amy Duggar King]

So relaxing. It was so relaxing. And so it was just like, wow, like, people live like this. This is amazing.

[Host 2]

Wait, why do I love the idea of teaching our kids how to play instruments that we can. We can just make music?

[Host 1]

People come to our house. It doesn't start like that, though, babe.

[Host 2]

But like.

[Dylan King]

That. You don't want 19 of them, but if you want. But, I mean, maybe you do.

[Host 2]

And I'm like, really? Like, the more kids we have, we have two, and they get along so well. So fingers crossed that, like, always stays that way. But, like, I. I would love to have a big family. Like, it just. It seems like a party, you know, it.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh. And it was. There was a lot of good moments. That's what makes it hard.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Is that it was like. It was a lot of, like, gray moments and, like, really happy moments and funny moments and, like, sliding down a political sign on the hill. Like, in the snowy hill. Like, using the political signs as, like, the sl.

[Host 1]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Host 2]

Like, the opposite political side.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God. Wait, I've never heard of that. That's actually hilarious.

[Amy Duggar King]

They're very slick, and they work very well.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Host 1]

I can imagine.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

That actually bend them up into a pretty, like. Like a racing sled.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. You can go really fast.

[Host 2]

So, like, you just grew up spending a lot of time with your cousins and you. And you knew them really well. Like, were they the closest people to you, as. As a child, would you say? Or would you have, like, Other family that was closer.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, no, definitely. They were the closest. But the thing is, is that we were all in a room. We would spend so much time together. We had, you know, tons of trips, all the stuff. But it was more surface level.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

It wasn't really heartfelt. We never really talked about the things we were struggling with or, you know, what God was doing in our life or what. Whatever it would be. It just wasn't ever talked about. It was more of just like, what's. You know, what the show is doing and. And, you know, just, how's the weather? And I like your skirt and. And that kind of stuff.

[Dylan King]

It goes back to, like, the IBOP teachings, though, too. Like, they teach, like, if. Like, if you're not in that circle, they keep you at arm's leak reach. Yeah, right. Like, you're not in the circle.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Because it's like a club, you know, we're not in the club. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Like, being, like, out of the club and maybe, you know, I'm guessing you might have, like. Yeah. Listen to music that they weren't allowed to listen to or, you know, dressed in a certain way that they didn't dress. Did your cousins ever ask you questions growing up about, like, why you lived differently than they did?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, not necessarily. I think they all knew that, like, I was. I was considered the wild one.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, like, literally my title on the show was Crazy Cousin Amy, as you know.

[Dylan King]

Abby, how did you get that title?

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, I have no idea how I received that title. I watched the show one night, and it popped up by my name, and I was like, oh, my word. What is this? Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea because I'm not wild and I'm not that crazy.

[Host 2]

Like, it literally, it liter said, like, the words on the screen were crazy Cousin Amy.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Like, rather than just like, Amy in parentheses. Cousin.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Right.

[Host 2]

Interesting. Do you think. Do you think it was, like, a producer that was like, okay, this is a fun way to market this person?

[Amy Duggar King]

Maybe. I mean, I definitely had, like, a bubbly personality. And, like, it was very, like, it was very different compared to, like, my cousins who, you know, did they just live differently than me?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

But I wasn't like, you can take wild in any kind of way. Right. I mean, that could be like, oh, she's trouble. She's wild. We pray for her soul, you know, that kind of thing. Or it could be like, she's fun. You can take wild in all kinds of different ways. And so I didn't really, like that title too much because I was just like, what about, like, you know, fun Amy or something?

[Host 2]

But your upbringing was totally different from your cousins, right? Because.

[Amy Duggar King]

Completely different.

[Host 2]

Because, like, like, you said, you. You had the last name Duggar growing up, which was correct. If I'm wrong, your mom's. Your mom's name.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yep.

[Host 2]

That was something that took me a while to understand. I was confused about all that.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. A lot of people think that I changed my name to Duggar in order to, like, be more liked or to have more fame or popularity. And I'm like, this has just been my maiden name. Like, I can't do anything about it. I can't change that. You know? But people, they're gonna think what they want, you know? That's just part of it.

[Dylan King]

You just set it straight.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay? Set it straight.

[Host 2]

You gotta post Amy. You gotta post, like, a birth. A birth certificate photo. Like, here's the proof, people. I'm not making this up. This is my actual name.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes, okay. Yes, exactly.

[Host 1]

Well, her.

[Dylan King]

Her mom had Amy out of wedlock, and so her mom, Deanna, is Jim Bob's sister.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

That's where the Duggar name is at. God. So when Amy was born, Deanna wasn't married to the man, obviously. And so you naturally would take your mother's.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes, right.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

That's how. That's. That's why she has the Dugger.

[Amy Duggar King]

My. My mom and dad dated for, like, 22 years, you guys.

[Dylan King]

Whoa.

[Amy Duggar King]

And. Yeah. Yeah. And so by the time that they got married, I was senior year in high school, and they. I mean, I wasn't gonna have another name change, you know?

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was like, I'll just wait till I get married to change it again.

[Host 2]

Totally. Now that. That would be where I actually knew somebody in high school who change their name. And it threw me off because I was like, why would you want to.

[Host 1]

Like, why would you want to do three different names?

[Amy Duggar King]

Like. Yeah, no, that's just.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I. I think they, like, they were officially adopted by their stepdad, which is, like, cool for them. But I was like, if that were me, I would have just like, hey, it's probably gonna. I mean, I guess as a guy, my name wouldn't change.

[Host 1]

I think matters your relation to your father or your, like, stepfather at that point, which.

[Dylan King]

See, I had a buddy that changed his name because him. His father, like, they did not get along at all.

[Host 2]

Shoot. Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And, like, it was so bad. Like, his dad moved to a different state and he was like, I don't even want the Same name as him. Gosh. And so he changed his name back. I mean, back in.

[Amy Duggar King]

I guess you can change your name to whatever, right?

[Host 2]

I think you can legally, if you want to.

[Host 1]

Your last name.

[Amy Duggar King]

I think there's a Friends episode about it.

[Dylan King]

I don't know why you. Can you just apply for it?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Wow.

[Host 1]

That's just something that's never crossed my mind.

[Dylan King]

It's not different than, like, writing your birth certificate for your kid.

[Host 2]

It's kind of like a big screw to your family.

[Amy Duggar King]

You just make it up, whatever.

[Host 2]

I guess you can. I. That was actually my next question. Did you change your name? But no, you just. That was your.

[Amy Duggar King]

On the book, people put Amy Duggar King because that was how people associated me with.

[Host 2]

Got it.

[Amy Duggar King]

But my middle name is Rochelle.

[Dylan King]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

I don't guess I'm like, Amy Decker King is kind of everywhere, I guess, right now. But I'm like, that makes sense.

[Dylan King]

Okay, so. Well, we debated when you did your book whether it was going to be Amy King or Amy Duggar King. And, like, I mean, basically came down to, like, everybody. One conversation with the PR team, all that. And they're like, everyone knows you as Amy Duggar, and that's how they know you.

[Host 2]

So I was like, okay, I get that, though. I still. I'll see people post on, like, Facebook or Instagram from high school, and I'm like, who is this person? I'm like, their last name changed. I'm like, are you serious? And I'm like, oh, that's right. They got married. Like, that's how this works. Thank you to Cacava for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[Host 1]

This season is chaotic for everyone. I think everyone's like, how you doing? I'm always, like, busy, and I just sound like such a dad. I say that.

[Host 2]

Why a dad?

[Host 1]

I don't know. I just feel like that's the dad standard answer to that question. But it's true. There's so much going on, and I feel like something that I really rely on during this type of season is a breakfast I can count on. And I have been having cachava every single morning because cachava makes getting whole body nutrition easier during the holiday chaos.

[Host 2]

I'm a big fan of the chai flavor. They also have it in vanilla as well as. Isn't there, like, a coconut one?

[Host 1]

That's the one that I have every day. Coconut acai.

[Host 2]

Coconut acai, yeah. And that's your favorite flavor?

[Host 1]

That's my favorite right now. I like a lot of them. They have some unique ones like Matt saying chai. I don't see that a lot, but it's really good. And what I like about the coconut acai is it mixed well with water.

[Host 2]

Cachava is a whole body meal with plant based protein that actually tastes delicious. With every two scoops of Cachava, you get 85 plus superfoods, nutrients and plant based ingredients.

[Host 1]

Yes, enjoy. 25 grams of 100% plant based protein in any of their six indulgent flavors. Chocolate, vanilla, chai, matcha, coconut, acai and strawberry. If you're looking for a plant based protein, trust me, we've tried a lot.

[Host 2]

This is the to go calm the holiday chaos. Go to kachava.com and use code unplanned for 15 off. Your next order. That's Kachava K A C-H-A-V A.com code unplanned for 15 off.

[Host 1]

I didn't have a problem changing my name. I was, I was excited for it.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was excited too.

[Host 1]

And I loved my family too. I didn't have this. I didn't have that conflict that some people feel like they're like, I love my family and I want to still have this like, connection. But they understood. I think they knew that I was always gonna change it.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. I was gonna say I don't care, but then I heard what you said about the whole one name uniting thing, and I kind of like that.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. I feel like there's like a level of respect that happens when like, you're just like, I love you enough that like, now we are a family.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

You know?

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

That is pretty dope.

[Host 1]

And it's sweet for your kids then too. They have like their family name that they're a part of. And it's not like I have to pick mom or dad or anything.

[Dylan King]

That would be a little bit strange.

[Amy Duggar King]

That would. Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Or I guess you choose a form at birth because you gotta have. You gotta give them a name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then who do the kids go with?

[Host 2]

Yeah, I know that would be hard, dude. I know in Latin American families, I think they do a hyphenated one. Like, I think they have both.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

They have a very long name.

[Host 2]

They do.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Which is kind of awesome. That's actually.

[Amy Duggar King]

That's really cool too.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

So you have to sign.

Takes like a year.

[Amy Duggar King]

You, like, became famous and then you have to like sign that long name.

[Dylan King]

No, that's why they all go with nicknames.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

That's why they just.

[Host 2]

Oh, my goodness. Okay. So your parents dated for 22 years. They didn't. They didn't get married until you were senior in high school. And you had a very different upbringing than your cousin. So, like, talk to me about that. What was. What was your childhood like? What was it like? You know, being raised by.

[Host 1]

It is even interesting hearing you describe, like, your mom had you out of wedlock. Like, that phrase is not one that you hear a lot.

[Amy Duggar King]

I know it's a total Duggar phrase, if I'm going to be really honest with you. Wedloc, what they used to call it, my uncle used to be like, this is Amy, and she was born out of wedlock.

[Dylan King]

What else do you call that?

[Host 2]

Wait, she would introduce you like that?

[Dylan King]

That's how I've always known it.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, like, that's how I've always known it.

[Host 2]

Why would you need to say that?

[Dylan King]

I guess it's.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it's like, it's kind of a.

[Dylan King]

I don't know, maybe that's an old traditional thing. Like, when you have kids, you're. You have kids with the person you're married to and you don't. Like, I don't know.

[Host 2]

We have friends that have kids and they. Like, we've interviewed people on this podcast that they have children together, but they're not married.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So, like, if I were to introduce them to someone, I would just be like, hey, this person, this is our.

[Dylan King]

Friends Blank and Blank, and this is their kidlock.

[Host 2]

I wouldn't be like, they. They had their kids without getting married. Like, I wouldn't lead with that, you know?

[Dylan King]

Yeah, I guess it makes sense, though, in like, the, like the. The sense of what we're talking about. Because then it would get kind of confusing why her name was Duggar versus her father's name of last name of Jordan. Right. Yeah. I guess if you say out of wedlock, then it makes more sense because if you were married, I guess traditionally, you just think you would like the man's last name. Right? Like, maybe. I don't know.

[Host 1]

The reason I point it out is just because it feels like it's attaching you to, like, a perceived sin.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes.

[Host 1]

By them.

[Dylan King]

Like always.

[Host 1]

And I just wonder what that's like, growing up, just being like, here I am, I might not. I'm technically not supposed to be here. Like, what does that feel like? Do you feel that way, or am I just perceiving it this way?

[Amy Duggar King]

I love you. No, I felt that way several times. You know, here I am. There, there. They've got such a wonderful life. And I'm just like, hey, like, I'm just a wild card over here. So, yeah, it was definitely odd, and I just kind of have always been different and. But different's not bad, you know? But, yeah, it's been. It's been a wild ride. It's been a wild ride. Yeah.

[Host 1]

I just. Yeah, that is just such a. That's something that stands out to me because it is something that you don't hear a lot. And I just wonder what it's like, like, living your life, like, attached with this, like, thing that you're like, I wasn't even, like, part of this. I was just born in this circumstance. But then you're also compared with, like, quote unquote, idyllic, like, family structure, family standards, and I guess comparison would be something that I would imagine would be, like, a struggle through that.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, no, it definitely was. How could it not be, right? Okay. I mean, my mom and dad, they had the most rollercoaster relationship there was. I mean, I cannot even tell you how many fights and how. And how really unhealthy it was. And not even just that, but it also became, like, threats and emotional abuse, and there was just a lot going on. So I would go over there for, like, a safe haven, really, and kind of feel like, okay, I can breathe here, you know? And, yeah, in those moments, it's like, man, like, what did I get? Like, this is so nice, you know? I mean, like you said, like, the classical music and the kids playing, and no one argued. No one was allowed to. No one slam doors. No one got mad. No one could get angry or, you know, throw any kind of attitude whatsoever. And so it was just like, wow, this is so nice over here. And that's how I grew up. Just. They knew me, they loved me, but they kind of kept me like, we love. We love you, you know, kind of thing. Because I wasn't necessarily just like them. I wore jeans, for heaven's sakes. I mean, I was a walking sin.

[Host 1]

Did you wear jeans to their house?

[Amy Duggar King]

I did.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

I did. There was a couple times that when I was younger, they would. They would ask me to wear skirts, and I did. I've tried on panel looms before. I've tried on one of their swimsuit.

[Dylan King]

You can ask jumpsuits before we've done our research.

[Host 1]

We know. I had no idea they could wear in the pool, right?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, no. The panel looms are, like pirate cottony pants that you wear underneath your skirts.

[Host 2]

That they did with that.

[Dylan King]

Exactly. That was my question. Like, why Would you wear pants under the skirts?

[Amy Duggar King]

Because.

They need more coverage.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, because the skirts already down to their ankles already.

[Host 2]

I didn't even realize that was a thing. I guess when you think about like Pirates of the Caribbean.

I didn't know that was either.

[Amy Duggar King]

Right there. The cottony little billowy.

[Host 2]

So you like, you actually wore those in real life Sometimes I.

[Amy Duggar King]

Well, I mean, when I was little, yes.

[Dylan King]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

Just to like appease my family and to show that I, you know, I do respect their values and their rules, which.

[Host 2]

Which is a lot of them.

[Amy Duggar King]

There was a lot of rules.

[Host 1]

This is reminding me of my grandma.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

My grandma married. Married. And her brother in law and all of their, like, side of the family were Mennonite.

[Host 2]

You said your grandma married her brother in law.

[Host 1]

My grandma got married and her brother in law after marriage. Yeah. Mennonite.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay. Yeah.

[Host 2]

You would do the same thing as you would.

[Host 1]

She would wear the long skirts for a while and then she was kind of like, okay, we all know that, like, at my heart, I'm not, like, I'm not. We're not prescribing to the same types of like, convictions here. And so she's like, I. I'm gonna give this up, everyone. Are we okay with this? And I do remember it. She told me she was like, it.

[Amy Duggar King]

Was like a little bit of a.

[Host 1]

Weighty decision to like, then just like express myself. What felt like true and right for me when everyone else had like a different standard for themselves.

[Host 2]

And I think, I think that's dope. Like, I think it's cool maybe at first to respect the, the values, but at the same time, like, you're your own individual. I know it's like, not really the same thing, but when I went to Turkey recently, I visited a mosque and like, they asked out of respect for the mosque because it's a religious place to wear. Like, I wore a skirt inside the mosque as a man, but like, yeah, someone's house isn't a religious, like, you know, place.

[Amy Duggar King]

It felt like it did.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

You're always holier than thou at times.

[Host 2]

Well, that's how you. I mean, your mom would make you. You couldn't wear jeans to your family.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But I do remember I. We gave that one up too.

[Host 2]

So you eventually started wearing jeans.

[Host 1]

I wore jeans and they had holes in them, so it was really.

[Dylan King]

Did you spend like time like, like with Mennonite holidays?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. Okay.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That's actually.

I wouldn't hang out there for Mennonite thing.

[Amy Duggar King]

How was say that has to be.

[Host 2]

Wait, why are we not hanging out.

[Dylan King]

With your men and families?

[Amy Duggar King]

They literally. All they do is like cook, right? They're in. I bet there's a restaurant. It is so good. Their food was amazing. Hungry.

[Dylan King]

There's a restaurant going towards Oklahoma that's like an Amish, like full blown restaurant. And every time we drive to Oklahoma, we stop in there and eat. Cuz it's always good.

[Amy Duggar King]

I bet it's amazing.

[Host 1]

They're corn. They're so. I'm like, where are you growing this corn?

[Host 2]

And the people are always so nice, right?

[Dylan King]

Like special seeds. They're corn.

[Host 1]

They're.

[Dylan King]

I don't know. Unless you've seen like the whole.

[Host 2]

Hey, keep.

[Dylan King]

That's a whole different thing.

[Host 2]

We're not talking about. They're nice people.

[Amy Duggar King]

That's right. They are.

[Host 1]

They are.

[Dylan King]

There's always good people in all groups.

[Amy Duggar King]

No. So, yeah, it definitely felt like holier than thou. I definitely felt like, oh, she's wearing. I remember the first time I wore jeans over there and I was like, I'm doing it this. Here we go. Like walking in the door. Like, I can do all things, you know, and just being real, you know, I don't like fake.

[Host 2]

I would have been so intimidated doing that. Oh, I would have just kept wearing the skirt.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I don't want to see you in a skirt.

[Amy Duggar King]

I don't want to see you in a skirt either.

[Host 2]

Well, if you look at my video of me getting a hair transplant in Turkey, I definitely wore skirt. I did. I did. Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, my goodness.

[Host 2]

Out of respect.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that's right. That's good.

[Amy Duggar King]

Well, that's good.

[Host 2]

Did you watch that video?

[Host 1]

No.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

It's fine.

[Host 2]

It.

[Amy Duggar King]

Sorry.

[Dylan King]

I mean, I rock the kilt.

[Amy Duggar King]

You have homework now.

[Host 1]

I know.

[Dylan King]

Maybe I saw it like a skirt. It's like a manly skirt, but.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Worn the kilt.

Married for 10 years and I never knew that.

[Host 1]

I want to talk about you introducing him to this scene.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, dear Lord.

[Host 1]

I've heard some of the story, but like, did you. Had you known about the IBLP before you met Amy? Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

No, he didn't know really anything about me. He met me when I was filming. Filming? We met at a bar.

[Dylan King]

Just mutual friends.

[Host 1]

You were filming at the time?

[Amy Duggar King]

I was filming. Okay. I was. I know I had.

[Host 2]

Did they have any episodes of you at the bar that have been so gnarly? It's like meanwhile crazy company.

[Dylan King]

Meanwhile taking shots at the bar.

[Host 2]

That would have been such a good spin off show though. Like, let me tell you like, the contrasting family. Like, you got the. Everyone's playing piano, listening to classic music, and you're over here at a bar, like, drinking shots, meeting. Meeting your husband.

[Dylan King]

It's in the book, man. The first time we met, I. I insulted her. She was like, whoa. And I was like, let's get shots. And that's how it started.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

That's how it started.

[Amy Duggar King]

We actually were, like, best friends for, like, six years. So when. When I came to, like, you know, dating him, and I was like, okay, it's kind of getting serious. Maybe you should meet my family. We were at this, like, rock and bowl place. It was like globe bowling. There was. Yeah. It was called Fast Lanes. And there was. All my cousins were bowling. And they don. Dance, right? They do not. They don't move their body in that way.

[Host 1]

We talked about Duggar weddings before.

[Host 2]

It was really fun. When we were hanging with Ginger Jeremy, we were closing them on, like, just movies. Everyone in the us would know.

[Amy Duggar King]

I laughed so hard.

[Host 2]

It was so much fun.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes. Yeah.

[Host 1]

They're like, she know the wizard of Oz?

[Host 2]

That. Yeah.

[Host 1]

We're like, that's so clean.

[Dylan King]

That's sinful.

[Host 2]

You gotta show your kids the wizard of Oz.

[Dylan King]

You should ask about our wedding. Because that side of her side of the family left our wedding very quickly when we flipped the screen.

[Amy Duggar King]

We can talk about it. We can talk.

[Dylan King]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

So. So when he first met them, he walked in and there was some music playing, whatever. And they all. So he walked in and he was like, hey, look. Dancing and just cracking up.

[Dylan King]

I didn't know the rules.

[Amy Duggar King]

They all were looking his way and literally turned their backs and, like, did.

[Dylan King]

Not say, like, dominoes.

[Amy Duggar King]

Did not say, like, back turns. And I was like, like. And he was like, what did I do? What did I do?

[Dylan King]

What did I. I was ignorant. I had no idea.

[Host 2]

You didn't prepare him at all.

[Dylan King]

You didn't say nothing.

[Amy Duggar King]

I let him sink or swim.

[Dylan King]

She let me walk right to the.

[Amy Duggar King]

Deep down.

[Host 2]

You got it out. You did him dirty, though. I feel like if I would have met. If I would have met your Mennonite family, you'd have been like, okay, Matt, you're not. You're not taking your shirt off. Okay.

I might have been in the middle of the dance circle at her homecoming.

[Dylan King]

She did nothing.

[Host 2]

Just start dating. She would have been like, matt, like, I want you to be on your best behavior.

[Amy Duggar King]

There was one time that you guys. He. Another time he went to the house, and one of the little girls was like, what's your favorite Color. And I'm sitting across from him at the table.

[Dylan King]

They're most sinful color.

[Amy Duggar King]

And he was like, black. Okay.

[Host 1]

Why is black your favorite color?

[Dylan King]

Okay. Very. Okay. So I played guitar since I was an early teens. My dad has always had a hot rod shop. Right. So anything from like classic muscle cars to guitars to anything that's like, man, anything. Like, you got a point. I race motorcycles. So all the different things that I like and interested in, like, black's just a good looking color on it.

[Host 2]

I agree.

[Dylan King]

Like a blacked out 68, like a Camaro is like, that's it.

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, he just really likes that color anyway. It's like matte black, all the things. And so the little girl, right?

[Dylan King]

Like, that's my thing. Like, like black everything out. Just black it out. It's all good.

[Amy Duggar King]

The little girl was like. And he was like, what? Black looks good on all kinds of things. And I kept kicking him underneath the table. I was like. And he's like, what? What? And he's not good at like catching up on like the things I am.

[Dylan King]

I'm just very blunt about it. I'm like, just tell me what I'm doing wrong. I don't care if it's.

[Amy Duggar King]

He cannot pick up on like my little like, stop. He's like, what? What are you trying to say? Anyway? And so literally he goes, black is sexy.

[Dylan King]

Black is sexy. And I.

[Host 2]

You're like, you just made it way worse.

[Dylan King]

Yes, again, she walked me right into Morador. If, you know, Lord of the Rings, walk me right in there without saying nothing, man.

[Host 2]

So you were never invited back to the house after that?

[Amy Duggar King]

Well, honestly, that's when kind of the scandals took place.

[Host 1]

Oh, no.

[Amy Duggar King]

And so they don't really know Dylan. Like, I know Dylan.

[Dylan King]

I don't think they would know me regardless. Well, you know, because they keep. They keep even you at arm's Elite reach.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Well, and I know what opinion they have of me, so they're definitely. They're keeping me of like two or three arms length.

[Amy Duggar King]

It's okay. I'm married.

[Dylan King]

But it is what it is.

[Amy Duggar King]

I'm married. Right? Yeah.

[Host 2]

I just hate that so much. Like, it just makes me sad for like all that to be public and then for people to be talking about it and then just like, oh, it's just awful. I hate that.

[Amy Duggar King]

It's been really, really crazy and really sad and there's been a lot of stuff that's gone on. So. Yeah, I kind of just. I'm just real in my book, you know? I'm just like, here's all the crap and here's how I've healed and here's how life goes on. You know, the door's always open. I even put that in my book. There's a little note that I left to my cousins and I just said, you know, if you were, you're ever interested in really getting to know the real me, like, I'm always here for you.

[Host 2]

So you didn't feel like they ever got to really know who, who you are, who Amy is.

[Amy Duggar King]

Really feel like it? No. I mean, on the show we were doing all kinds of funny things and had me doing, you know, I mean, I was riding in a dump truck with bagels all over me, feeding, you know, animals, zoo animals and jumping out of, I don't know, a plane and riding a pig and doing crazy stuff all the time. Because that was my character.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

That they didn't really get to see, like, I think my true heart.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Thank you to ZocDoc for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[Host 2]

Recently, I needed to get a refill on my ADHD medication and you know where I went, guys? I went to ZocDoc every time.

[Dylan King]

Yep.

[Host 2]

I actually used ZocDoc to get officially diagnosed. Was that almost two years ago now? It's been a while and it's been amazing actually having a diagnosis from a real doctor and understanding myself more. If you don't know what zocdoc is, it's a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. You can book in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty.

[Host 1]

Think about how convenient that is. You just get on their app, you're connected with a doctor, and sometimes you can even score same day appointments where you're literally meeting with a doctor either in person or from the comfort of your own home, instantly.

[Host 2]

Yes, that's actually what I did when I got a concussion last year. I had a same day appointment and it was super helpful.

[Host 1]

Yes, we've had many zocdoc appointments and what's great is that you can even filter for doctors who take your insurance who are located nearby and are a good fit for any medical need you may have and who are highly rated by verified patients. Appointments made through Zocdoc happen fast too, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same day appointments. Like we said earlier, I use Zocdoc.

[Host 2]

And you should too. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.comUnplanned to find an instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.comUnplanned Zocdoc.comUnplanned.

How has that been? I know you are now like friends with Jill and you and Jill, your friends. You mentioned earlier your friends. I mean, your kids. Sorry. You and Jill are friends and your kids play together.

[Amy Duggar King]

They're friends, yeah. How did that relationship come together be so honestly? After grandma passed away, my uncle told me Jill was already kind of backing herself away, kind of having some more boundaries set with the family. And he said to me, you know, you need to reach out to Jill. I. I think she's kind of going down maybe a wrong path and you guys need to, maybe you can reach out and connect with her because he already thinks I'm probably go on a wrong path anyway, you know, and so I reached out one day and I was just like, hey, I'm here. If you ever need to, I'm here. Whatever you need. And she was like, hey, cuz, do you know where the nearest like, tattoo parlor is? Which one would you recommend? And I was like, what? And I called her and we just really connected.

[Host 2]

Did you guys get tattoos together?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, but I would love to. Jill, you hear that? I hope she's watching.

[Host 2]

Did you know that we have matching lip tattoos?

[Amy Duggar King]

We have tattoos too.

[Host 2]

You guys got matching ones? Where, where are.

[Amy Duggar King]

So okay. It says rest in the storm.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, mine's.

[Amy Duggar King]

And his is on his forearm says, yeah, rest in the storm.

[Host 2]

That's so cool.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I'm actually thinking about getting another one because this is really sad. We don't have to talk about this, but. Yeah, we lost our daughter two months ago and I've been thinking about maybe getting a tattoo to remember her. And so my dad, actually, I was.

[Host 1]

Gonna say Jill reached out.

[Dylan King]

I would do it.

[Amy Duggar King]

That's sweet.

[Dylan King]

I think that'd be dope.

[Host 1]

I love that Jill reached out at that time, like right after she heard the news. And she had like so many resources for us, which was really incredible.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So nice of her to give us at that time. Time.

[Amy Duggar King]

She's the sweetest. I actually asked her what, like I gave you guys a little gift beforehand and she was like, get them something that you know was small and like, what, you know what something they would love and like. So, yeah, she kind of helped me with that.

[Host 2]

So nice.

[Amy Duggar King]

Just. Yeah, we. I can never imagine that pain. And I'm truly so sorry of what you guys have gone through. Thank you. Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I will say, all of the Duggars we know reached out at that time, which was very special.

[Host 2]

Every single. Every single one.

[Host 1]

And kindness. It was really fun.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was probably traveling, but I am here now.

[Host 1]

Seriously, thank you so much.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Thank you for giving us a gift. That was very thoughtful.

[Amy Duggar King]

Of course.

[Host 2]

No, Yeah, I guess. I guess my question is, you know, so you're. Now that you're hanging out with Jill and you guys have, like, this friendship. What. Like, what are you learning from that? What has that taught you?

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, my word. Cousinship is so much fun. Like, we can joke around and laugh and we have inside jokes and just to know that, like. Like, my child. Our child. Our child is. Is safe in their presence and that their kids have spent the night with us and, like, we, you know, take care of them and love them and know, you know, what they like and the hobbies they have and all of that. It's just, so. It's such a different way of living compared to really what we had growing up. And so it's actual, like, true. Like, true family.

[Host 2]

Talk to me about how long it's been since you've seen maybe other family members, like your uncle or your aunt or your other cousins, because you. And now that you and Jill are hanging, like, have you reached out or talked to any of them recently as well?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, unfortunately. Like, so when the scandals. The last scandal happened, and it was just so heartbreaking, I realized I needed to have boundaries set with my family and the situation because of the lies and things that were told. And it's nothing against my cousins. It's just.

[Dylan King]

Just.

[Amy Duggar King]

It's one of those things that, like, if I don't want to ride a fence, you know, like, I'm not one of these that's gonna, like, oh, I love you, and them, and everything's great, because it's not, you know, like, I believe that anyone that lies to you, like, doesn't value you and doesn't respect you, and they're, you know, that's not. It's a character flaw. That's a character flaw. Let's be honest. And so, unfortunately, I have not seen them in years.

[Host 2]

When you say lies, are you talking about. About, like, cousins, Your uncle? Like, yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

So when the scandals, like, took place, I was told by my uncle that there was no true to the stories. There was no truth at all. There was no problems. And I talk about it, and there's a pattern that you see in my book of all the things that's gone down and he's maybe omitted or not told the entire truth when asked past. And it's been eye to eye, it's been in text messages, it's been in, in all kinds of ways. And so it's just like, man, like someone who has the inability to tell the truth is not someone I really need in my inner circle, you know.

[Host 2]

Did you ever tell your uncle that you were writing this book or did you ever like talk with him or was there anything?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, no. For me, my healing journey actually pretty quick. Yeah, my healing journey is like, is, is my own, you know, like, yeah, they're a part of the story, but it's not like Duggar book, you know, I mean it's my entire story from before I was born until now. And I really talk about like generational trauma and how to break like just toxic cycles within a family unit. And so yes, they're mentioned, yes, there's things that's gone on that's shaped who I am, but I mean they're not the entire story, you know.

[Host 2]

Okay, I want to know more about that because I know there's a lot of good stuff in your book. Like what, what can you share about maybe those toxic cycles and how you were able to overcome, overcome them?

[Amy Duggar King]

I think for me, you know, I rely heavily on my faith and I believe that like God is not the author of confusion. And I, I believe when there's chaos, when there's tension, when there's lies, when there's cover ups, when no one can really speak truth, that's a huge red flag that something is off. And I, I believe that, yes, to just trust your basic instincts, you know, I feel like your body will tell you when something is off. You know, you get that like hunch of like something feels off, you know, and, and so for me, I've just had to like work through a lot. I've had to forgive people that's never asked for forgiveness. I've had to just have boundaries and learn, you know, the importance of it in order to keep, you know, my mental health. Do it, you know, I'm okay. Keep our marriage strong and keep, keep my son safe. So it's, it's been a, it's been a journey.

[Host 1]

I want to ask, so have growing up with a really turbulent relationship, it sounds like with your father. Did it ever make you think, like I don't ever want to get married. Like, I don't ever want to, to like repeat that I don't want. Were you attached, attaching your experience with your father to, like, a potential husband ever. Because I feel like I've heard of people struggling that. With that before, where it's like, you.

[Dylan King]

Have this example, this. The generational cycle.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Talking about, like, it's almost like. Like an abuse at home. You kind of look for the same abuse when you get older or. Or your mindset is, like, that's the norm, and it's okay, and it's not okay. You know what I mean?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. Or someone will, like, date someone and be like, well, it's not as crazy as it used to be. You know, like, that's not a good answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But seriously, they'll be like, oh, like, this abuse is different from, like, what I've experienced. And so. So, you know, it's all right. Cause it's not as bad as it used to be kind of thing for me. No. I always wanted to be married. I'm a relationship type of girl, and I'm faithful. And so for me, it was just like. I don't know. I knew that, like, better existed. I just didn't realize it was my best friend of six years. He was hiding underneath my nose the entire time.

[Host 2]

I know in your book, you talk a lot about your dad, your relationship with him. What was it that made. Made things not good at home growing up?

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, goodness. Anyone that has narcissistic abilities, if you will. Gosh, you're never right. You can never express your feelings when you do. My dad had a fire that he kept burning at all times, like a smoldering fire. And he would throw things that should never be in the trash. You know, he would make them burn. And so necklaces, clothing, dishes, dish rags, anything that would set him off. So it was basically like teeter tottering on eggshells.

Like, my entire life. Yeah. A lot of fear. A lot of fear. And he would tell me in detail, really, of how he wanted to, like, in my life at times.

[Host 2]

So that was. That was a threat. That was, like, verbally said, literally a threat.

[Amy Duggar King]

I know several ways of how he said that he would. How he would.

[Dylan King]

Like, there's a verbal threat made when I was in the house and I was. Have I. I won't say the words I want to say right now on. On your podcast, but let's just say, like, I wanted to do what should be done in. In like, a. In a man's kind of mentality, you know, when you see someone, like, hurting somebody else. So. So he had a broken femur, so we couldn't get out so, yeah, I was. I mean, I had a. I had a car accident, I don't know, early on our relationship, but I was, you know, I was laid up, but he couldn't move. I had a broken femur and they shoved 18 inch rod in my leg and so I wasn't physically able to even get up to go and, and, and protect, Protect, stand up, whatever, however you want to word it. But yeah, her dad's a very abusive person, in our opinion, a lot of ways.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I'm so sorry to hear that.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, yeah, it was hard. It was really hard. And then I think what really is like another layer of hurt really that I've had to heal from is that not only only was my dad that way, my grandpa was that way. And then feeling like my uncle was more of like a father figure at times and someone that I could look up to really kind of turned out to not be someone that I could fully trust was really hard. I had a lot of trust issues I had to work through.

[Host 2]

Talk to me about one of those stories you mentioned. You know, things being thrown away in the trash. Tell me, tell me more. Like what's, what's a story of something being thrown in the trash? Trash as, as a way to, I don't know, get back at you or. I, I don't. I guess I'm just curious how, like, what that exactly looked like.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, so it was like a ticking time bomb. My dad. I remember a time where my mom was just in the breakfast, you know, just making eggs and she burned them. She wasn't paying attention. She burned them. And I remember he was like, why can't you do anything right? You know, you, you, you know, all the, all the things you can imagine, the things that ever said. And he took the pan and the eggs and he threw them in the fire. He tore up the dish rag. He would break the spatula. Just anything that was associated with the eggs, that all the eggs would be, you know, cracked and destroyed. It was, it would happened all the time about everything. It wasn't just one thing. My favorite necklaces, favorite clothes.

[Host 2]

Was there something that you did that made like set him off or was it just completely unprovoked?

[Amy Duggar King]

No, it was completely unprovoked. It definitely was just one of those things where we would be even watching like a movie, like as a family in the living room, and he would get up and be like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with you guys. And he would start pacing the floor, like just very like evil Just. It was very. Just evil behavior.

[Host 2]

Was he. Was he an alcoholic or was there anything.

[Amy Duggar King]

No.

[Host 2]

Drugs?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes, he drank. I. I noticed that there was some, like, hidden in the closet and stuff like that. I don't know if. I don't know. I really don't know. It was just one of those things where I. I didn't know what everything was called either. I didn't educate myself on, like, you know, that's. That's gaslighting, that's love bombing. That's. I didn't know all the terms that, you know, abusers use until later. And so I just had to protect my mom growing. Growing up, I protected my mom from a lot.

[Host 2]

How did you do that? I mean, protecting your mom as a child must be pretty intimidating.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, I. I took on the burdens of, like, cleaning the house the way that he wanted to, cooking the way that he wanted to, just making sure that I was in the car with them. My. My dad was known for opening the car door in the middle of a highway and just threatening to jump out. That kind of stuff. Yeah. So I was always just kind of there, try to soften the blow, you know?

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, loving my mom so much that I didn't want to give her, like, one ounce of pain.

[Dylan King]

I was also putting, like, a third person in the room, too.

[Amy Duggar King]

Right.

[Dylan King]

Because, like, if you look. If you do, like, a bunch of studying, like, on, like, people who. That are abusive, most of the time, they don't do it in front of everybody.

[Host 2]

Okay, Right.

[Dylan King]

Because. Because, like, like, if you were, like, if someone was going to abuse somebody, like, if I thought you were someone strong enough to stand up to me, most of the time, an abuser isn't going to do it because they don't. They actually. They don't want to have that fight with you.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

They want to abuse the people that they can manipulate and control easily.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Right. And so he was able to do that, obviously, with. With Deanna. And, you know, when you throw a kid in the middle of it, it's unfortunate for that child or he. You, since we're talking about you, but that's almost. It's almost like a little bit of a barrier because that person isn't going to just come right out and just abuse everybody right out in the open. Now, eventually it kind of got to that point.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Dylan King]

But. But typically speaking, you know, if you're going to. If you're. If you are that, you, You. You. You show that to the people that you want to abuse, you don't show that to the other people. Yeah, because you don't want that. You don't want that.

[Amy Duggar King]

You can.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Were, were your aunt and uncle Jim Bob and Michelle aware that this was going on?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, there were times that my mom.

My dad's house and go over to my aunt and uncle's house and stay there throughout the night talking to him and just calming down, giving him time to breathe, you know, time to, you know, just to cool things off a little bit. Yeah. And we would leave before the kids woke up so they didn't know the turmoil going on back at our house.

[Host 2]

And I can imagine there probably was a good time to relationship with your uncle. Like what, what did that, what did that, like the good times look like?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. So the banter between my uncle and I were great. We had a lot of fun on camera. Oh my gosh. He. Oh, he's done so many, so many funny things. He would feed me. One time he fed me like haggis in Ireland. I did not. Oh my word. No, he always had me doing silly things and just like he was, he was funny. He had a lot of, of a lot of good banter between us and, and yeah, so he, he loved me. I think there were. I think he did love me. But I also think that he, I don't know, I guess in my opinion, he like, he kind of knew where I belonged, if that makes sense. You know, I wasn't a. I was a part of the family, but not intermediate, you know, kind of thing.

[Dylan King]

I also feel like me from the outside. I also feel like you were used as a tool on that whole dynamic. That's just my opinion, but.

[Amy Duggar King]

Well, you know, it definitely is interesting because it was, it was just a very interesting dynamic.

[Host 2]

Thank you to Revolve for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[Host 1]

This time of year, there are so many special and fun events going on. I'm talking holiday parties, Christmas card photos, North Pole experiences, New Year's Eve parties, all the things. And it's a great time to reach, refresh some fun new pieces into your wardrobe as well. And that is why I am personally shopping Revolve. First of all, I have not been enjoying in person shopping.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Amy Duggar King]

No.

[Host 2]

Really. So you're doing everything online.

[Host 1]

I mean, what am I gonna do? Haul two toddlers with me? It's just not the same experience. And because Revolve has over 1,200 brands and 100,000 styles across fashion, beauty and home, from high end to emerging and exclusive labels, there's no reason to look anywhere else. Honestly, they consistently offer the latest and most sought after trends in fashion with new arrivals daily. They also have inclusive sizing, which is awesome. From extra extra small to 4x.

[Host 2]

Guys, I don't know if you were paying attention when Abby and I went to London earlier this year.

[Amy Duggar King]

He's still talking about these boots.

[Host 2]

Abby got these thigh high leather boots that she wore to an Usher concert in London and she looked hot with H hawt.

[Host 1]

Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm mean, only Revolve is going to offer something like that. And they were very nice.

[Host 2]

Check out Revolve guys.

[Host 1]

Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or just a little style refresh, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to Revolve.com Unplanned Shop my edit and take 15% off your first order with code UNPLANNED. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's Revolve.com Unplanned to shop my favorites and get 15% off your first order with code unplanned. Offer ends December 24th. So happy shopping.

[Amy Duggar King]

I didn't like that I was called crazy because you can discredit someone who isn't crazy, right? And I think for me, I had discernment about some things that I talk about in my book as well. And I was told, like, there's no, there's no truth to this. Everything's fine, don't worry about it. You know, that kind of stuff.

[Host 1]

Stuff.

[Amy Duggar King]

But in my heart of hearts, I kind of knew that something was off. For example, I went to the pantry one time. There was a big birthday going on and their birthdays were huge, you guys, I mean, lots of people, lots of stuff. And, and yeah, I went to the pantry and one of the girls, one of the older girls was curled up and crying in a corner and I just knelt down and held her and she was having a straight like extreme panic attack attack. And in those moments I was just like, oh my goodness. And that's the first time I've ever seen anything. Because they're meek and mild and soft and, and beautiful. They're beautiful girls. It's a beautiful family. I mean, they really are. And in that moment I was just like, oh my goodness. Like, here you are hurting and no one knows. And so I reached out to my uncle and I just said, hey, Like, I, here's what I'm seeing. Like, is she okay? What's going on? And he was just like, oh, everything's fine. She was Just having a little off day. But I was like. She was shaking, like, really, really terribly. I was like, that's. That's not. That doesn't seem like just a bad day, you know, that's not a hangnail. That's not it. Yeah, that's. That's trauma, really. And so when I was asked, I was just told that there was just no truth to it, but it's like, man, did you know something was going on? I, you know, I have my questions. It's hard not to.

[Host 2]

What is it, like, you. I don't know, when you. When you mention, like, scandals and trauma, like, what exactly are you, like, referring to when you mention, like, these really dark things that started being, like, talked about in the media a couple years ago?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. I mean, there was, like, three huge ones. One was the sisters, which is devastating. Of. Of Josh taking away their innocence, as you will. And then this. The second one was the Ashley Madison, which. Do you know about that one? That one was. That one was.

[Host 2]

I think there was a documentary about that whole outland as well.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Josh used my grandma's address for the login information, which is just like, think, dude. You know, think. Just, like, use your brain for a minute. And then the third one, I honestly, I won't really speak of because it's. It's that devastating and that disgusting. But he deserves where he is.

[Dylan King]

Gosh.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

She gets so many people DMing her. Or, like, we'll do a live or something. And people ask all the time, like, well, what's happening with this person? Or what's happening with that person? Or what's going on in the Duggar family?

[Amy Duggar King]

And we're like, we don't know.

[Dylan King]

We don't know.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, I found out.

[Dylan King]

We found everything that she just said, like, that the. Like what you're saying.

[Host 2]

You learned everything that's hitting the time.

[Amy Duggar King]

Media, like, you know, national television.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, we learned that.

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, yes.

[Dylan King]

Oh, turn on the news right now. Okay. We just learned it.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

Or, oh, we saw a magazine at Walmart.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And found out that this was happening. Like, we find out just like the rest.

[Amy Duggar King]

Just like everybody.

[Dylan King]

No one's talking to us, which is. No one ever does until we start reaching out, like, hey, we. We heard about this. Is this true? Is there. Is what's going on?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And then kind of to. What you're asking her is like, we would ask questions like, why was the FBI over at the car lot? Or Homeland Security. Homeland Security. Gun to the car lot. What's going on, right? Like, this is kind of weird. Here's the rumors we're hearing. What. What is this?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And then we get answers back. And the answer is like, oh, they just had to stop and get directions. And they just said, hi. And we're like, how uneducated do you think we are?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Homeland Security doesn't show up randomly because they're confused on where they're at. That's bizarre that you think we're gonna buy that. Right?

[Amy Duggar King]

There was a.

[Dylan King]

And then they showed up to our house and start asking more questions about them. And then we call. And then we call again and go, yo, home. And just showed up at our house asking us questions about your son. What the heck is going on?

[Host 2]

And you again.

[Dylan King]

Swept under the rug. We're told it's all good. Nothing happened. They're just here to say hi.

[Host 2]

You just would have appreciated this crazy.

[Dylan King]

Like, what's.

[Amy Duggar King]

Are you.

[Dylan King]

You want us to buy this?

[Host 2]

So I guess, like, what I'm hearing is the problem you guys were having was when you were talking to your aunt. Uncle about Homeland Security showing up at a. At a. Showing up at your house, you know, you just wanted answers on, like, what actually is going on, and they just pretended that there was nothing going on.

[Amy Duggar King]

I don't like someone who is fake and someone who just can't speak truth. Right? Like, just tell me. Like, you don't have to tell me all of it, but you can just say, hey, there's some things going on in the family. Pray for us. Like, you know, some. Like, it's. It's big. It's a big deal. No. Okay. I can take that, you know, and I can do something with that. When you tell me that Homeland stopped by the car lot because Josh is friends with Homeland Security and they're having lunch and don't worry about it. They're just having a great. They're just friends or. Oh, Homeland Security just stopped by the car lot because they need directions to the actual address of where they're actually investigating dating. Come on. Come on. It always changes.

[Dylan King]

It's not just one thing. Right?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

I mean, like, I hear, like, you know, I kind of hear, like, I guess maybe, like, why. Maybe we feel the way that we feel. Right?

And, like, it's not just one little isolated thing, like, the car lot. Right. Or Homeland. Like, it's. It's years.

[Amy Duggar King]

Years and years.

[Dylan King]

It's years of being lied to. It's years of. Yeah, it's years of when the lie actually comes to life light. It's Swept in a rug. And it's. And it's belittled to us.

[Host 2]

And we were talking about lies being told. You're talking about Jim Bob specifically sharing this stuff?

[Dylan King]

Yeah. I think the biggest, like, the most, like, unfortunate thing is because of that.

And it's been so long now, like, what, seven years or something? Probably longer than that now. But the unfortunate part is, like, I can't fault the, like, her cousins, like, the kids. Right. Because it's not their doing. And we also know how, like, the ibop, like, upbrings everybody. When you're born into it, you don't know any different. And so therefore, you don't know what's right or wrong because you live in that little bubble. Totally understand that.

[Host 2]

Well, that's what.

[Dylan King]

And also, like. And also in that environment, too. Also in that environment, like, you kind of have like a hierarchy. Right. Like, the father figure is like, the one that makes all the rules. He's the one that.

[Amy Duggar King]

The leader.

[Dylan King]

You don't. He's the leader. And so we also know there's been times too, where, where things are told to this, oh, they stand over here. They don't believe like us. So we need to keep our distance because, you know, there's a way that maybe they could suck you into sinful whatever. Whatevers. Right. So I don't, I don't. I don't think I'll talk for you too. But we don't fault, like, the cousins for it because that's how they're raised. And, you know, that's just what it is. A lot of the problem is coming from more of, I guess, Jim Bob's secret side. And just the level of sweeping things under the rug, the level of the lies that we've been told. And for, like, like, like she. You were saying, for just our mental health and everything else, like, we have to put a boundary.

[Amy Duggar King]

Who has time for that?

[Dylan King]

And, and the bad part is you put a boundary in place. Unfortunately, with this situation, you put a boundary in place with one person who is the leader in this IBLP kind of thought process. That person goes and puts the boundary with everybody.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

So now we have no. Now we have no contact with anybody other other than Jill and Derek, who broke away.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

And some of the other ones that are breaking away, we. We get to talk to them, but the other ones who haven't broken away from it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

You know, they're still underneath that control of that IBLP kind of thought process. And so that line's been drawn. So we don't we don't have. We don't talk to any of them.

[Host 2]

Do you know, it's not because we're.

[Dylan King]

Choosing not to have talked to the cousins, but I don't think. And I'm really. I'm. I'm honestly kind of guessing, but I don't think. Think that they're even allowed to talk to us from that kind of. That. The way that they've structured how they raised their household.

[Host 2]

But what I'm. I guess what I'm hearing from you is that, you know, from reading. Yeah. From talking to you guys. Yeah. Reading Jill's book, Ginger's book. You know, now. Now we have your book. It's like, there's. There's so much information out there, but it seems like it. The common theme, I'm noticing, is where something. Something is going wrong from. Yeah. From the top down. Down. And I guess what I'm getting about. Yeah. Is that. That seems to be your uncle. Right. Like, because. Because when I. When I hear stories about.

Michelle, she seems. She seems to, like, she shows up. She showed up, I want to say, for Jill and Ginger and Joy when they had their babies. And, like, I'm like, how are you showing up for your grandkids when you. Like, I. That woman must be the most busy person on this planet with all the people she's taken care of.

[Dylan King]

Like, I'm sure she is.

[Host 2]

She seems like a saint, you know?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. She's so sweet. I mean, I haven't seen her in years, which is so sad. But at the same time, like, I. Yeah, she's. She was always so. So sweet.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. Just tender and genuine and just very kind.

[Host 2]

It seems like there are more and more members of the family that are no longer part of the iblp. And it seems like a lot of people are, you know, realizing what their own beliefs are now. You know, a lot of the. The kids that were on the show are now adults and they're grown. What have your conversations been about that with, say, st. Ginger? Because. Because, I mean, with. I'm sorry, Jill. Because I know with you and Jill being friends. I know Jill wears pants now. I want to say she wore pants on this very podcast, and we chatted with her. So what was that conversation that, like, pants conversation like with Jill?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, Pants are a big deal. They often have been. I remember headlines like, they're wearing.

[Dylan King]

As. We're all wearing jeans.

[Host 2]

Everyone's wearing pants.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, we're all wearing pants. And no, I think it was just so good to see them live their Own, like, the way that they were. Would like to live, you know, they don't have to be. It doesn't have to be all about rules, and you don't have to live in, like, legalism.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

You know, you don't have to live that way. You can live in freedom. And I love to see that. At the same time, and I will say this again, but at the same time, when I was on the show, you know, they weren't wearing pants. They weren't doing these things. And so I wish they would have just seen me for me and, like, I can still love Jesus and. And still wear jeans, you know? So back then, there was some pushback and some. Maybe a little bit of judg judgment coming, coming from that. But I love to see how they've grown and how, you know, who they are as. As women now. And I'm. I'm really. I'm proud of them. I'm always in their corner.

[Dylan King]

I'm super, like, encouraging. Well, I. I try to encourage everybody. Like, so I. I was raised. Raised in a certain way, Right. Everyone's raised in their own ways and them as well. But at some point, you have to take responsibility for yourself at some point, and you have to start challenging what your parents taught you. And then, like, well, my parents taught me that, so that must be right. Well, that's. Come on. That's. You gotta. You gotta challenge why you believe what they taught you. Right. And so I think you're seeing, like, with Jill and Ginger, like, they've obviously gotten to a point where they're like, I'm gonna challenge everything I was taught and come up with my own beliefs, find out where I stand on all these things. And that's the part that I like seeing. Regardless if you agree with them or not, that's huge growth from that side of the family is watching them get older and being like, you know, maybe mom and dad were right on. On these things. Yeah. For pants. I think I'll wear pants now. Right. It could be something as small as pants.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

But. But the overall thing is, like, I see that, like, that is growth, not just in them, but, like, if you see that, like, if. If you've done it, I've done that. Personally, I've done it. She's done it. That's just positive growth that I can get behind anybody. I don't care what. Who you are.

[Host 2]

It's funny, the pants conversation being such a big topic, because it really is, for whatever reason, such a big deal. I know it's been A big topic in the books. And then also just chatting with Joy, Ginger, Jill, like, we've talked about pants a lot.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And how, like, it was. It was a big deal when they started wearing pants. And it kind of makes me almost think of, like, my little brother turning 21 and being like. Like, dude, how was it? Like, did you. Did you drink your first.

I don't know, like, whatever. So, like, for you, when you saw them. When you saw them starting to wear pants, what. Did you ever, like, text or call one of them and be like, yo, like, how's the pants?

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, I texted Jill. I'm not. I don't. I don't talk to Juliana right now. There's a lot of. You know, I hate to say that I. I wish it wasn't that way, but like I said, the door is open if they ever want to have an actual conversation. I haven't met any of, like, the guys that are now married. I haven't met any of their wives. I've never been invited to the weddings. It's been kind of a closed deal. But I am, like, rooting them on. You know, I see them in pants. They can. They're. They look good. They look good in pants. You know, I love it. Jill wears the cutest look when all.

[Dylan King]

You saw was baggy, long dress skirts. Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes. Yeah. No, it's a whole new. A whole new world for them, and I'm. I'm here for it.

[Host 2]

There's. There's so many adults that will have, you know, glass of wine here and there or. Or a beer or something. But it's funny, like, when you. When you know someone that, like, used to not do that, but now they are like, I have a friend that used to not drink coffee because he was raised Mormon or lds, and so he texted me when he drank coffee for the first time, and I was.

[Dylan King]

Like, isn't it amazing? I'm telling you, it blew my mind. I never. I never thought in a million years I would. I was actually. We were at my house hanging out, and I. And I was making cocktails, and I made. I made Derek an old Fashioned, and I was like, yes. This is the weirdest thing, dude.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. We go on, like, double dates with them.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

Because, like, we own a restaurant. We own a bar. Like.

A bar together.

[Host 2]

I didn't know that.

[Dylan King]

No, not dare.

[Amy Duggar King]

Not dare.

[Dylan King]

We had a bar together.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You guys had a bar. That's cool. I didn't know that.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, we had a bar for, like, Five years.

[Amy Duggar King]

But it had a huge whiskey.

[Dylan King]

It was a whiskey lounge. We had like 120 whiskeys on our shelf.

[Amy Duggar King]

Wow.

[Dylan King]

So, like, when they really know your whiskey.

[Amy Duggar King]

Whiskey, yes.

[Dylan King]

I'm a whiskey.

[Amy Duggar King]

He knows.

[Host 2]

That's cool. Okay.

[Dylan King]

Whiskey snob.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay, so. But then you made. You made some sort of beverage for Derek and you never thought in a million years he would drink it. And then you guys just.

[Dylan King]

I never thought in a million years anywhere anyone from her, that side of her family would ever drink, much less that I would be making the drink for them. You know what I mean? You know, but it was like, it was like.

[Host 2]

I think it was like.

[Dylan King]

It was like a good, good moment. I was like, okay, hey, cool, we are doing this. I don't care if you drink or if you don't drink. It doesn't matter to me. But I was like, okay, yeah, this is kind of cool. Like a little more openness.

[Amy Duggar King]

Well, I feel like you can connect not just in alcohol, but like, just connect in all kinds of ways.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Dylan King]

That's not like one thing that was like. That's so like bipolar though. Of what that family, right? Like, well, none of them would ever have a drink.

[Host 2]

Kind of like my. My LDS friend. I was like, like, okay, like, what drink did you get? I was like, did you have a latte? Did you have plain black coffee? I'm like, if you had plain black coffee.

[Dylan King]

Cuz you went bold.

[Host 2]

I was like, nobody drinks plain black coffee if, or at least if you're our age. What is what you drink? Plain black coffee.

[Amy Duggar King]

Straight black.

[Dylan King]

Like John Wayne. Like John Wayne just poured in.

[Host 2]

Gun.

[Amy Duggar King]

Total weirdo. Wow.

[Host 1]

Well, he also drinks whiskey, so yeah, he's.

[Dylan King]

That's true. You're drinking like my whiskey. Just straight on with like ice cube maybe.

[Host 1]

What?

[Host 2]

You don't even put it like any soda or anything.

[Amy Duggar King]

I'm a Kool Aid girl and I eat and for you.

[Host 2]

Put your whiskey in Kool Aid.

[Amy Duggar King]

I don't do. I don't do whiskey. Whiskey makes me mean.

[Dylan King]

She likes. She likes wine. And it's like, it's like sweet, sweet Moscato. Moscato. It's the sweet stuff. It's like drinking syrup.

[Host 2]

Thank you to Aura Frames for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Okay. If you are looking for the perfect Christmas gift for your mom, your grandma, maybe your great grandma, grandma, a family member that loves seeing pictures of you and your kids, look at aura frames, because what you can do is give them this picture frame where you can digitally Upload photos and videos and have it all preloaded for them to open on Christmas morning.

[Host 1]

I know.

[Amy Duggar King]

I love that.

[Host 1]

The fact that they can come preloaded makes it feel so personalized and it's really so easy. If you're last minute shoppers like us. It can be kind of obvious if you pulled together a gift last minute. But with or frames you can get it quick but give it a little personal touch by already having it ready to go with pictures of your little ones. Heck, maybe even your puppy. You just a way to make it feel like it has that extra personal touch to it.

[Host 2]

Aura Frames allows unlimited free photos and video. Just download the Aura app and connect to WI Fi to start uploading again. You can preload photos before it ships and keep adding from anywhere, anytime.

[Host 1]

You didn't already catch that?

[Dylan King]

Yep.

[Host 1]

Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag. So it's literally ready to go for you. You can't wrap to get, but you can frame it for a limited time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com and get $35 off. Or as best selling Carver Mat frames named number one by wirecutter by using promo code unplanned at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code unplanned.

[Host 2]

This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast. So order now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I'm totally opposite of you. You're like, you see me at a resort. I'll be drinking like a pina colada or daiquiri. You be like a whiskey guy and I'm out here like he's my fruity.

[Dylan King]

Like if I do a cocktail, here's like if I'm doing cocktails, it's like a Sazerac which is very whiskey forward. Old fashioned.

[Amy Duggar King]

Very old.

[Dylan King]

Or it's like I'm going straight.

[Host 2]

Like you know what an old fashioned is?

[Dylan King]

Or it's like. Or it's like I'm doing martinis. Like give me a dirt dirty dry gin or vodka martini.

[Host 1]

Wait, I want to hear about espresso.

[Host 2]

Martinis are good.

[Host 1]

Was there. Was there alcohol?

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dylan King]

So we had two different receptions. I'll let Amy explain it.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, we did.

[Dylan King]

This was a respect obviously, right?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes. I mean, so it was right after the first or the second scandal, right? I don't even doesn't that the second scandal. Well, okay. I'm just letting you know that like my aunt was there. Everyone was there. Everybody was there. Anna was there. It was, like, a really big deal because it was. Right. It was heartbreaking for her. It was, like, a really big moment. And I was like, okay, we have to be really respectful of my family, and I. I love them. I want to be respectful. So we had, like, the most softest music playing.

[Dylan King]

It was. It was music that didn't have a church.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was in a barn. We got married in, like, a really pretty barndominium. Beautiful.

[Host 2]

And this. We're talking, like, piano music, like, very.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes. Like, very soft, like, music that they.

[Dylan King]

Would have in their home.

[Amy Duggar King]

Like.

[Dylan King]

Right.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Everyone was eating, and we had all the food, and, I mean, it was beautiful.

[Dylan King]

We did that for a little while.

[Amy Duggar King]

Then we had the DJ come on and say, everyone, we're going from classy to trashy in about five minutes.

[Host 2]

Wait, he actually used the word trashy?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. I don't know if we. I don't. I don't. Well, I know I didn't. I don't know if we actually said use those words, but that's the words.

[Amy Duggar King]

He chose those words.

[Host 2]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, that's the words he chose.

[Host 2]

Wonder. They all left the bar.

[Dylan King]

Basically. It was like, hey, you have five minutes, because we're about to play, like, regular, like, wedding music change.

[Amy Duggar King]

They warned them.

[Host 2]

And then what happened?

[Dylan King]

Immediately, they were gone.

[Host 2]

They left, like, everyone.

[Amy Duggar King]

Every single one.

[Dylan King]

Not a.

[Host 2]

There was not a single person.

[Amy Duggar King]

Single one.

[Dylan King]

No.

[Host 2]

What about, like, a distant cousin? Do you have any other distant cousins or anything like that? No, no, just all of your bar buddies.

[Dylan King]

It was mainly my family and all my friends, too, you know?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. None of her family, but, like, it was. It was like a big. Just a big old party until about three in the morning.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

I was bummed because. I know. Yeah. Like, there's certain. There's certain members of the family that still will be on podcast and we'll chat, and that's. That's true. Like, I. I love that there are. There are some that, you know, like to talk about the show and what they're up to now.

[Host 1]

Now.

[Host 2]

But some people don't. And I respect that. But I. I want to hear. I heard to the grape vine that at, like, a recent wedding or something that there was dancing, which was. Must have been, like, a really big deal.

[Dylan King]

No idea.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow.

[Host 2]

But I don't know. But I guess at your wedding, there wasn't. There was no dancing.

[Dylan King]

I guess there was dancing. They did not participate.

[Host 2]

They left before trash announcement was Made.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

They.

[Dylan King]

After that, I think they knew that the music was going to be changed to something that they thought was probably safe. Eventful.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And they were told that, you know, the bar is now open. And we were, you know, people can start having cocktails. Yeah, that's about time. They were there like, we're out. Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

They're like, we love Amy, but crazy showed up. We gotta go. And we just knew that the lights just started dimming.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. Well, it turned into a club, turn into a party. You know, it's our wedding.

[Amy Duggar King]

I mean, we're gonna celebrate it.

[Host 1]

We had a huge dance party at our wedding.

[Host 2]

Had an open bar, and I had an open bar, and people took their shirts off. I think. I think my buddies did. My buddies take their.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, they.

[Host 2]

I think you took your shirt off. Did I have my shirt off at our wedding?

[Dylan King]

You drank too much. I can't remember.

[Amy Duggar King]

Do you have a problem with taking off your shirt a lot?

[Dylan King]

Dude.

It seems like that's today.

[Amy Duggar King]

I heard you say it, like, three times, so I'm really curious.

[Dylan King]

She also said it so this I said a half a dozen times.

[Host 1]

Generational. Talk about generational.

Today was riding his bike.

[Dylan King]

It's a generational cycle.

[Amy Duggar King]

Mine doesn't wear a shirt either.

[Host 2]

You know, I think. I think it might be my adhd. I don't know what it is. I've always had sensitivity issues. So I've always. My entire life, never worn a shirt.

[Host 1]

At home, there's, like, family Christmas pictures. Everyone's in sweaters.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And you have no shirt.

[Host 2]

No shirt. And we used to live in Hawaii, and I. And I. One of my favorite parts about Hawaii, and I'm not even kidding, kidding was I would never have a shirt on. I would go to the grocery store, no shirt, Go to the beach, no shirt. Be at my house, no shirt. I never had to wear a shirt.

[Host 1]

Your mom was just talking today. She's like, I did my special socks for Matt. She buy special clothes with tags.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was gonna ask you about the tags. Do you cut out your tags out of your shirt?

[Host 1]

He's got better.

[Host 2]

I mean, it depends on how itchy they are. Like, and I'm really particular with the tag stuff because I hate that. But no, seriously, though, like, the shirt thing, it's. It's a real thing. Like, I do. I don't. It's. It's. Honestly, it's out of respect for you guys that have a shirt on right now.

[Amy Duggar King]

Like, do you want to take it off right now?

[Host 2]

Legitimately?

[Host 1]

Why not?

[Host 2]

Like, Like, I'm not even Kidding, you guys. 15 seconds before I met you, I threw this shirt on.

[Dylan King]

I mean, I'm going to tell you right now, I could give.

[Amy Duggar King]

I don't doubt it.

[Dylan King]

I could care less.

[Host 2]

Seriously, I. I could care less if.

[Dylan King]

You have a shirt on. I don't care. Well, I guess I'll take it all classy to trashy.

[Amy Duggar King]

The trashy trashy.

[Dylan King]

It's a different angle for your podcast.

[Host 1]

I would say maybe. Let me wait. Maybe hold off. But that'll be like, your mom said she talked to the pediatrician about it. She did.

[Host 2]

It's a real one.

[Host 1]

Or should I, like, force him to wear it? And she. He's like, I can't say anything because I'm the same way.

[Host 2]

So I'm like, my parents will. My parents will be over for dinner, and I won't have a shirt on at the dinner table. And then my dad's like. He's like, you know what? I guess this is your house, so I can't really make you.

[Dylan King]

That's true.

[Host 2]

Or, you know, I think I said that. I don't think. I think. I was like, dad, don't even say anything. Like, I'm. I'm not wearing shirts.

[Dylan King]

My house, next time they do that, you just put, like, nipple tassels and be like, oh, my. That way now you can be like, matt, where's your shirt? And just turn around, be like, I'm all covered.

[Host 1]

That would make them legally think that's funny.

[Host 2]

They would think that's funny.

[Dylan King]

Tassels on so you can, like, you know, twirl and stuff. That'd be hilarious.

You're covered from a legal perspective. You could walk around.

[Host 2]

That's right.

[Amy Duggar King]

You're useless anyway.

[Host 2]

Oh, my goodness.

[Host 1]

I'm curious if you've ever been to a Duggar wedding. Have you ever been?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, I sang at Jill's, which was super fun. And I've been to Josh's. I've been. Yeah, so I've. I've been up to. Let's see, when was the last one?

[Dylan King]

I've been to one.

[Amy Duggar King]

You've been. Don't even get me started on the one that you were at. He was at Jill's hungover, y'. All.

[Dylan King]

He was bad.

[Amy Duggar King]

He was hungover. Boyfriend. And they would be like, the people. He'd be right beside me, had sunglasses, and they were like, where's his boyfriend? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. He's not here. He's not here.

[Dylan King]

I had one of those. I had one of those days where, like, he was like, hey, we have the wedding. If you're gonna go. I'm like, yes, I'll go. I'll support you. I'll go.

[Amy Duggar King]

Trying to think of the last.

[Dylan King]

And then I had some buddies like, hey, we're gonna go have a beer. Like the bar. You want to go? And I'm like, I'll have like a couple. I have like one or two. And then I gotta get back because I gotta this wedding first thing tomorrow morning. And then. You know how that always goes.

[Host 1]

It's an early morning wedding.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, it was like, in the morning.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, it was a whole thing.

[Host 2]

Jill's wedding was in the morning.

[Amy Duggar King]

It was.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Was this a sunrise service?

[Dylan King]

Why are you hungover at like 6pm morning wedding? So one or two beers. You know how that kind of sometimes turns into more than that? And it did. And I don't think I went to bed till like four in the morning. Morning. And then some of her girlfriends came over because I guess she had called or something. I didn't.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was like, where's Dylan? Yeah.

[Dylan King]

And. Yeah, they banged on the door. And I was like, what? And they're like, give the wedding. I'm like, I know. And they're like, you know what time it is?

[Amy Duggar King]

I'm like, now?

[Dylan King]

No. And I was like, oh, I'm. I'm gonna miss it.

[Amy Duggar King]

He showed up.

[Dylan King]

I was like.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was like, dark shades happening right now. What is happening?

[Dylan King]

I didn't talk to a whole lot of people.

[Amy Duggar King]

No, no. I. I've been to Jess's. I've been to. Been to Gingers. I've been to. Yeah, I mean, I've been to a lot, but I mean, the. The newest ones, you know, Jason, Josiah.

Funerals. I haven't been a part of, like, any of, like, if we have a family, like, you know, a distant. I haven't been to any of those family reunions. I haven't. We haven't been invited to Janice. I wasn't invited to. There was a lot of different weddings that I. I haven't. Which is just weird. Weird. It's just a weird feeling being like, wow, that is something I thought I would. That would never happen.

[Dylan King]

That goes back to one of the other things we were talking about, like, before too. It's like some, like, you know, you see like, Ginger and Jill and they're getting older and they're. They're. They challenge a bunch of stuff that they were taught as a kid. Yeah. They're kind of Changing how they live their life. I think that's great. But some of the other ones that we haven't spoken to who aren't living at home, and they just don't invite family members.

[Amy Duggar King]

Member.

[Dylan King]

It's like, okay, is like, what did a. What did somebody say? Or what were they told?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, we don't think maybe we're on.

[Dylan King]

This line that, you know, we don't like them, that we, you know, like a family. We wonder that we're like, I have no idea what dreams I might have told the rest of the kids.

[Host 2]

Oh, you see? Okay.

[Dylan King]

It's weird. Like, even if we reach out, they don't reach back. And it's like, okay, what were you all. What were you all told?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. What's going on here? And there's a family loyalty. And I get that they, like, want to be obedient to their parents and that they, you know, want to have their parents in their lives and that kind of thing. And I. It's not that I'm against anyone. I didn't write this book from, like, a bitter place. I'm not mad. I am not. Clearly, you guys have talked to me, like, I am not mad about it. It's just I've had to heal from a lot, and the experiences that I've had to heal from can help someone else heal from whatever they've gone through and they're Their life. So, yeah, there's a. There's a lot. There's a lot in there.

[Host 1]

I understand that because I. Going through, like, our recent hard experience, like, people like, oh, I could never talk about it. And I understand that, and I can see where that comes from. But I also feel like, like I always said, like, talking about it and even talking about it publicly was like, oh, it was a healing process for me. Like, yeah, it felt good to get that out there. And then, like, I felt like once everything was on the table, it's like, okay, now we can see it for what it is and we can move on. And I do understand that aspect for.

[Dylan King]

Sure in a different way.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

But to that point, I think it's really cool, like, when you. When you do the work yourself and you heal from it, but then you are kind of public about it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Not like waving public about it, but. But you're not shared to share, right? Yeah. Then you do get people that are in a good place, like Jill that reaches out and be like, hey, I've been there. Like, what if you need anything? Got quite, like, I'm here.

[Amy Duggar King]

She's Been so sweet.

[Dylan King]

She wasn't public about it, though, and she hadn't healed from it then, you know, she wouldn't have reached out and in it. But that goes on all of us. Like, what I might have worked on as a kid and where I'm at now might not help you because you haven't gone through that or you. Or you're not going through it. Yeah. But somebody else might. So I can help people that you can. Can't. But you can touch people that I can't, if that makes sense. And so I think. I think shirtless. Yeah. Tassels, if you want, man. It'd be great.

[Host 2]

No, it is. It is cool how sharing your story can help you heal and help other people heal. I know. Even speaking with Tanner Martin's wife, Shay Martin, who we spoke to on this podcast, you know, she lost her husband Tanner, to cancer. And I felt. I was like, how do you feel about talking about, like, I was like, just double checking before we did the interview. Like, how do you feel about talking like, this is really fresh. This happened a couple months ago. And she was like, no, she did that.

[Dylan King]

That quick.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And she was like, this is actually.

[Dylan King]

She.

[Host 2]

She said she's like, this is therapeutic for me to share his story and. And so, like, his memory can. You know, that's just how.

[Dylan King]

How strong of a person just. She is Two months. That's quick. Yeah.

[Host 2]

So I think. I think it's just one of those things where. Yeah, you. You, like, you can maybe like, you. You bring purposes out of past trauma through helping people through it and talking about it. I am curious, though. Have you, like. I know we talked about Jim Bob, but With your own father. Have you talked to your dad since the release of the book?

[Amy Duggar King]

Unfortunately, no, I have not. And the things that are in the book, you know, are deeply, deeply personal. And it's. I go through the entire thing of what. Of what's happened and what's gone on, and really the last moments of my last goodbye, there was a lot of mind games. Just so much hurt. It. Like, it. Yeah. It was like one of the most devastating parts of my entire book. My book, I've. I've. I've been told will make you cry. So if you guys, you know, for those that are. Do picking it up, just have Kleenex nearby, because I hear that it. You know, it's just my life story, and there's ups and downs and. And a lot of. A lot of deep valleys that I've had to go through. But no, unfortunately, I have not.

[Host 2]

And so we haven't.

[Dylan King]

We haven't talked to her dad in like seven years.

[Host 1]

Years.

[Host 2]

Wow. Seven years.

[Dylan King]

Seven years. Like, he made a phone call to our house. I won't get into that phone call unless she's okay with it. But he ended up calling and he said a bunch of things and basically she handed the phone to me.

[Amy Duggar King]

Heartbreaking things.

[Dylan King]

She handed the phone to me. I, you know, again, that kind of. That abuser kind of thing, he kind of flipped the switch and I was like, dude, she had the phone on speaker phone this whole time. Like, I heard every word you already said, so don't now all of a sudden flip it because you're talking to me like, you didn't say what you. You said. Yeah, like, I heard you. Let's talk about it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Didn't want to talk about it. Anyway, to cut to the end of the story, that conversation basically got left with like, we're done.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

This is the line we're drawing.

[Amy Duggar King]

You can't do like you've done.

[Dylan King]

You've abused her. You've abused Deanna for years. Yeah. Now we're married. I'm not going to let it continue, cuz I'm not letting that into my own life.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. And that was the line that day. We said, this is the line. And, and you know, we asked him, we were pretty blatant, obvious. We asked him straight up, like, look, man, like, if you can't change these type of things and this is like the abuse behavior that you're going to continue to do unless you change it. Like, you're not welcome at our house. Don't call us. We went as far as even saying, like, you'll. You're not going to meet your grandkids.

[Amy Duggar King]

You're never going to know your.

[Dylan King]

You're not going to meet your grandkids. Yeah, we're not letting this. We're not letting this in our life.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

That's just where we, where we're at.

[Host 2]

How did he respond to you saying that?

[Dylan King]

Basically good, I don't need you anyway. And hung up. I mean, that's basically what it was. And we were like, okay, well. And we haven't. We haven't talked to him in seven years now.

[Amy Duggar King]

So, yeah, we. A lot of therapy over that. A lot of therapy.

[Host 2]

What would you do if. If he, like, showed up at your house one day and, like, wanted to talk?

[Dylan King]

He's not welcome.

[Amy Duggar King]

I would probably call the police.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, he's not welcome.

[Amy Duggar King]

I. I really would. It's to the point where, like, if someone tells you over and over how they want to end your life. Life, and they've threatened you, and they've threatened to burn down the house with you in it and tie you up and hurt you and all the things. It was never sexual abuse. Let's let that be known. But his. The words that he said to me felt like he was punching me in the face every single time.

[Host 2]

That's terrifying.

[Amy Duggar King]

Terrifying.

[Dylan King]

I mean, the. The stuff he would say was so strong that. I have a really good buddy of mine, great friend of mine, that was in, like, law enforcement for 30 something years, and we went to him, and I was like, look, man, you've dealt with. With this type of thing just in your profession.

And, like, these are the things that he's telling her. And from, like, from his professional kind of standpoint, I'm like, what would you make of this? And he's like, you need just get a restraining order. Get a.

[Host 2]

Was that something?

[Dylan King]

There's enough of. There's a year and a pattern. Like, this isn't like, oh, I got mad one day. No, no, no.

[Amy Duggar King]

My. My mom had a restraining order on him when they were younger. Younger. And I think he's gotten to the point where now I don't think he'll reach out. I don't think, you know, he'll. He'll try.

[Host 2]

Do you know if he knows that you wrote a book or.

[Amy Duggar King]

I have no idea. I have no idea.

[Dylan King]

Zero contact.

[Amy Duggar King]

Zero contact. Zero.

[Host 2]

Like, is this number blocked? Like, even if you try to call it?

[Dylan King]

Yeah, his number's not blocked in my phone.

[Amy Duggar King]

Blocked in mine. And, you know, he's not the only blocked number. Number. My uncle is blocked as well. I'm just gonna. You know, I'm almost 40. I'm 30, 39. Which is crazy to say. I'm 39. I don't.

[Host 1]

I just.

[Amy Duggar King]

I'm exhausted. I don't want to have these mind games and, you know, I want to have genuine good people surrounding me and, you know, influencing my child and protecting my child and just being just good, just to just be a good human. That's all I'm asking. You know, we don't have to see eye to eye on everything. No, but you can cannot, you know, threaten my life. That's just not gonna. That's not gonna work. That's about. Yeah, you're not gonna do that. And I'm not gonna be lied to over and over. You know, there's so many things that I think because.

Narcissistic people Just know what to say, and they know how to twist things and manipulate and that kind of thing that, you know, we put up with it. Well, I should say this. If we have friends and they're treating you that way, like, Abby, if someone was treating you that way, you would be like, whoa, that's. That's toxic. That's unhealthy. Like, I'm not going to allow that in my life. Right. But what happens if it's family member? You know, people just go along with it. They're like, oh, I have to accept it, because family is forever.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

You know, they see the Hobby lobby signs, family is forever, these plaques, and all these things. Well, family can also be chosen. And family should respect you and love you and value you and treat you with genuine respect, you know?

[Dylan King]

Yeah, I agree. There's a lot of.

[Amy Duggar King]

You don't have that. Then you have to draw a boundary or that toxic cycle never stop stops.

[Host 2]

Did your mom end up making a boundary like that at some point as well?

[Amy Duggar King]

She did. Yeah. So in the book, I talk about how my uncle invited her to live at his house after grandma passed. My grandma. My mom was my grandma's caregiver for, like, three or four years. And my. My mom was in a really, really broken place. Really bad, just from all the things, you know, that she's gone through, but also a really bad force. And so she now lives with us. And it's like a really good, like, big ending to the story is that my mom lives with us now, and she's actually taking care of Dax right now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a beautiful thing because she's healed from so, so much. And it just shows you that anything is possible once you just. You have to put boundaries in place.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

Or that's always going to continue.

[Host 1]

Is that hard to have those boundaries living where you live? Because, I mean, everyone. Everything's so close together.

[Host 2]

You're like 20 minutes away, right?

[Host 1]

Heavily. Heavily populated. Right.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

5, 600,000 people are living there.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. I mean, so it's not. It's not insanely populated, but at the same time. Yeah. And we go to the same places. You know, if I, for example, I ran into John David just the other day, and he was at a restaurant, and I saw his wife, and I just said, hi, and she was like, hi, Amy. She always says hi when I see her. And John looked at me, and he was. Was like, oh, hey. And I was like, hey. And he just kept on like, it wasn't anything. It was. I mean, Are we family? Sure. But are we in each other's lives? Not. No. And so it's just one of those things where it's like, what. I mean, life goes on, you know.

[Dylan King]

It'S just another person that blows my.

[Amy Duggar King]

Mind, which is crazy.

[Dylan King]

We've kind of, like, drawn the lines with, like, Jim Bob, obviously, and her dad and.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

But, like, we've never really drawn the line, like, with the rest of, like, the cousins.

[Amy Duggar King]

No.

[Dylan King]

It seems like. What. Something has been said over there, because it's almost like. It's almost like all of them have drawn a line not to engage us.

[Host 2]

Where they would almost be, like, cut.

[Amy Duggar King]

Out or something from.

[Host 2]

From the top down or something.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, I think that's probably what happened. I don't know. I don't know. Because the only one. The only ones I have reached out is the ones who have broken away from it.

[Amy Duggar King]

I've also been very outspoken, and I'm not. I'm not going to stop because that's how you break cycles. That's how you help other people break cycles, and that's how you can have peace in your life. And so I don't think that's really welcomed.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

In that group. And so, yeah, I. You know, because women are literally. You're literally taught in the iblp and even just in that family unit and that circle. Circle that women are supposed to be, like, quiet, meek and mild, you know, submissive and just.

[Dylan King]

And just not to have a mind of their own.

[Amy Duggar King]

Not to have.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

You don't think for yourself. And so I am. I clap back.

[Dylan King]

How they think a woman should be.

[Amy Duggar King]

Right.

[Dylan King]

And so I should say, used to be. We can't say that now because we haven't talked.

[Amy Duggar King]

We don't know. Maybe they've changed. Yeah. So I don't think they necessarily are like, whoa. Like, she's like, what is she doing? But for me, it's just. It's a healing journey. It's. It's really therapeutic.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Because, like, it almost seems. I just know through our conversations on the podcast with. With Ginger, Jeremy, Joy, you know, everybody that we've spoken to, it seems like from what I've seen, it seems like they've all broken away from iblp, and I'm sure a lot of their siblings have. I. We haven't talked about the podcast, so I have no idea, but it almost seems like, you know, that, like, the IBLP thing and then, like, the family unit thing is separate, you know, So I. Yeah, it makes me sad. I hope that in the future you guys can all reconnect at some point because that, like, that would be dope. I mean, maybe, maybe it's not with you and your uncle, but maybe like your cousins. I don't know. That'd be awesome.

[Amy Duggar King]

No, the door is always open. And it's something that I would literally welcome if they want to have a real, you know, heart to heart conversation.

[Host 2]

That's awesome.

[Host 1]

This is a curiosity question because you were raised as an only child, obviously had so many cousins that you were close with growing up. Did you have siblings?

[Dylan King]

Yeah, I have a brother and a sister.

[Host 1]

Okay. And then you have one son that you call an only child. So I think that means the door is closed for more children.

[Amy Duggar King]

Listen.

I mean, I'm 39, so I.

[Host 1]

Feel like I wasn't gonna say it, that I'm done.

[Host 2]

My grandma had my uncle at like 42.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, I think we've kind of landed on one. I think we've landed like, one is good.

[Amy Duggar King]

One is good. Asked Dax so many times. I'm like, buddy, would you like a brother or sister? Like, how do you feel about that? And ever since he was like 2 years old, he's like, no, I want a baby duck.

[Host 1]

Baby duck.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay. And it hasn't changed. He's now six and still says, I want a baby duck. And don't worry, we're gonna hopefully move on a farm in the little kid. A duck. We're gonna get ducks.

[Host 2]

You guys haven't gotten him a duck yet.

[Amy Duggar King]

But we can't in our neighborhood. Where are we gonna put the duck? We also have a cat. Cat.

[Host 2]

We have some friends that they live in in a residential neighborhood and they have chickens.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay. I love that.

[Dylan King]

I don't think our HOA would.

[Amy Duggar King]

I don't think they would let us. I know, right?

[Host 2]

I've got HOA before.

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh, I don't think that's.

[Dylan King]

And chickens isn't worth getting fined every month. Cuz I have chickens.

Cheap eggs, you know, Listen, one day.

[Amy Duggar King]

I'm going to have like a total farm of every animal. He's already told me if we move to a farm, I can have whatever animal I want.

[Host 1]

There you go.

[Amy Duggar King]

I'm. I'm telling.

[Host 1]

So you're like, no more kids.

[Amy Duggar King]

So I. He's. I've always wanted to be a boy, mom. And now that I am, I. It's everything I've ever wanted. And I'm fulfilled. I love it.

[Dylan King]

Here's what's crazy. So she married somebody that also. This is how much life changes.

[Host 2]

I think it's funny that you, like, not only drink, but then you own the freaking bar. Like, like, how big of a contrast could you. You made friends. Iblp. It's like, you own the bar.

[Dylan King]

I just don't go there. Like, I own it.

[Amy Duggar King]

I did not want to date or marry a vanilla cupcake.

[Host 2]

And y', all, I didn't.

[Amy Duggar King]

I did not marry one.

[Dylan King]

Now. He didn't.

[Host 2]

I got.

[Amy Duggar King]

I had all kinds of things in this one. Yeah.

[Dylan King]

I don't remember what I was going to say now.

[Host 1]

Kids. We're talking about kids.

[Host 2]

We're talking about children.

[Dylan King]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, when we first got, like, met and everything else else, like, I was like, very on a straight line of, like, I'm not looking for, like, a serious relationship till I'm 40. I had no interest in having kids. Like, none. And then we got married when I was like, what, we were late 20s. I was like, well, missed the 40 mark by a mile. And then, and then we, we waited four years to have a kid, but we got.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was like, three months in.

[Dylan King]

We should have a kid.

[Amy Duggar King]

He was like, I want a baby. We should have a kid. And I was like.

[Dylan King]

And then even I, I was even shocked myself because I was like, I don't want kids. I never wanted kids, you know?

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's so funny hearing that one is.

[Dylan King]

Really good for me.

[Amy Duggar King]

Growth, growth.

[Host 2]

Fatherhood is freaking awesome.

[Dylan King]

I love it. So.

[Host 2]

I know for a fact, I love it. Like, probably 25, I would have been begging Abby to, like, make me a dad. But, like, at the time when she was, like, wanting to have kids, I was just like, are you serious? Like, we just got married.

[Dylan King]

It wasn't even that.

[Host 2]

So it's funny hearing you be like, I was the one that was like.

[Dylan King]

Pushing for it, but into our marriage and I, I.

[Amy Duggar King]

And I literally thought, like, I. That's like a Duggar move. Like, I'm not.

[Host 1]

I'm glad.

[Host 2]

I'm glad you been happy. Like, you were almost thinking you weren't going to have kids at first.

[Amy Duggar King]

No, no, no. I, I mean, I definitely wanted a kid. I had to, like, here's the thing. I had to heal from a lot given my background. I knew that I had to, like, in order to be the mom that I am now, which I love. Being a mom, it is the, the best thing on the planet. But I, in order to be that kind of mom, like, that's going to be soft spoken and kind and patient and all that, I had to heal from a lot because I grew up with a lot of yelling, broken glass, cops were called. That kinds of crap. I had to work on me before I could, you know, be something amazing for a little one.

[Dylan King]

Even that, like, I'm glad we didn't have a kid three months in. And I say that. I say that because, like, if you go back and you watch, like. Like, marriage boot camp.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

That we were on.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

That was, like, our first year of. We went on that show, like, our first year of marriage. So we went in, like, as, like, the new.

[Host 2]

On a TV show. Your first year of marriage?

[Dylan King]

Yeah. And so what marriage? So there's.

[Amy Duggar King]

There's five.

[Dylan King]

There's five couples that live in this house, and every couple is in a different stage of their relationship. So we were like, the newlyweds that was on it. And so, like, we. We were really went into it, like, okay, we don't have huge, big, major problems, but we're definitely gonna learn a bunch of stuff about each other, and maybe this will prevent bigger things going down the road. So we went into it, like, almost like counseling. Like, if you watch that, like, so a lot of the healing stuff that she's talking about, like. Like, I had to. I've watched her go through all of this healing stuff through, like, our early stages of marriage, and we just. We just celebrated 10 years.

[Host 2]

Congratulations.

[Dylan King]

That's amazing. But I would say, like, the first, what, one, two, three years was a lot of, like, you know, boundaries drawn that we've talked about. Yeah. It was like, okay, the boundaries. The boundary has been drawn that's gonna stay on this side now. And now let's work on me. And so, like, a few years of our, like, marriage was a lot of her working on herself.

[Amy Duggar King]

A lot of triggers. I had a lot of triggers, big.

[Dylan King]

Triggers that I had to figure out because I don't know your triggers. Like, you don't know someone's triggers, like, unless you talk about it. Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

So, like, communication, babe. We've done well. We're doing good.

[Dylan King]

We're 10 years in. We're happy, so we're good.

[Host 2]

Isn't that cool, though? Like, through all that time, like, you just get to know each other so well that, like, I understand how Abby's mind works, and I understand, like, the things that she loves and the things that, like, sets her off. And, like, it's just. It's so cool you get to know someone, like, that way. It's really special, actually.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Today in the shower, I was like, matt, I'm gonna give you one chance.

[Dylan King]

He had his shirt off, right?

[Host 2]

I did. I always have my shirt off.

[Dylan King]

Perfect.

[Host 1]

You know me. I said, do that one more time.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay.

[Host 1]

He said that was wrong. And you literally gave me three reasons why you shouldn't have said.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I, I was like, I took a second and I was like, this is everything I did wrong.

[Host 1]

You didn't like this because this and.

[Host 2]

Then this and then this.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was like, I love that.

[Host 1]

I was actually really impressed.

[Dylan King]

I'm not even mad anymore.

[Amy Duggar King]

He was, listen, I'm not even mad anymore.

[Host 2]

That was great.

[Amy Duggar King]

Communicate.

[Host 2]

I love you, baby.

[Dylan King]

How long have you guys been together?

[Host 2]

We've been. This summer will be a decade.

[Amy Duggar King]

Decade.

[Host 2]

So this will be seven years married. So yes, six months from now we'll, we'll celebrate seven years.

[Host 1]

Seven years. We dated for three.

[Host 2]

So this one will be a decade together. We got to do something big. A decade of our relationship. What should we do?

[Host 1]

Yeah, I don't know. I'll do something fun. But it is different once you're married. So I'm like only six and a half years married.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it is.

[Dylan King]

We've been together, I guess technically we've been together for 11.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

Married for 10.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

So yeah, I think a lot of people in the dugger world too also thought like we were having like a shotgun winning because we got pregnant.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's fun.

[Dylan King]

That's actually.

I'm saying I think people thought that because like, okay, so we, we dated for like eight months and then we were engaged for two months and they got. And then we had a 450 person wedding.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You said you weren't going to get married.

[Host 2]

That's really fun.

[Dylan King]

I know, that's my point. Right.

[Host 2]

That's hilarious.

[Dylan King]

So everyone on my side was like, Dylan doesn't want to get married. Why is he getting married? A two months engagement. What is this? And then her side of fam is like, like that's just a, like people would naturally like two month engagement. Like what's happen?

[Host 2]

And your family is like, this is the owner of the local, local bar, like bar. At that time you didn't have the bar. Okay.

[Dylan King]

Bars don't make money, just to be clear.

[Amy Duggar King]

Okay.

[Host 2]

They're not make money.

[Dylan King]

They're not big profits, they're not big profit margins.

[Amy Duggar King]

Don't do it.

[Dylan King]

Very small profit seem like a fun.

[Host 2]

Idea until you own it.

[Dylan King]

And then so the deal. Okay, the short story of that is like I've always loved the social aspect of like lounges and that type of thing. Don't get me wrong, I like my whiskey and everything. But like, I like the interaction, like, with you guys. Like, I like meeting new people.

[Host 2]

It is really fun.

[Dylan King]

I like being out and being social. Yeah. And so, like, ever since 21, being able to go into a bar or a lounge, like, I've always been like, I want to own a bar or a lounge. And I don't know what that looks like, but classy one. But I was like, one day I want to own one. And so like Velvet, we got, we got in a good place in our relationship. Right. Because it's gonna take up a lot of your time. And it's a bar too, right. I mean, you can't have someone in the relationship being jealous if you're running a bar. I mean, you can imagine. So, you know, we were at a good, healthy place as far as our relationship. We were in a good, healthy place financially. And I was like, I've always wanted to do this. We're in a good spot. Let's do, do it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

Because like, if you don't do it, you're gonna regret it later. And I, I, I can't do that.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

Like, if I have something I want to do, I'm not gonna not do it because I know I'll regret it later. I'll kill myself for it just because of that. Like, why didn't I do that when I was young? Yeah, I'm not gonna do it. I'd rather just take the chance. Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Dylan King]

So we did. It was a lot of fun. We had it for six years. Loved it. You know, we got out of it now, but, but it was a lot of fun. Fun, A lot of fun. I kind of miss it still a little bit.

[Host 2]

Sure. You learned a lot too. Just about like people and business and probably alcohol as well.

[Dylan King]

Like, there's a lot, I mean. Yeah, yeah, we had a, we had a private cigar lounge in the back. So, you know, we'd smoke cigars and have some whiskey. It was very, a man thing, right? Yeah, but, yeah, it was a lot of fun. We had a, we had a French, a culinary trained French chef. So I learned a lot of cooking stuff from him throughout the years. And so if you jump on like any of our social stuff, you'll see me cooking food. And she always is posting something that I'm cooking. But I came from the chef at the restaurant, you know, I'm sorry, but.

[Host 2]

Like, back, I got a sidetracked about the bar. But back, back to the wedding, who, who went to you and was like asking you about you guys having a kid out of wedlock when you got married?

[Dylan King]

Oh, I think it was just a general like, like, like everybody like so you're not.

[Amy Duggar King]

I was not pregnant.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, we weren't pregnant. We were just like, you know, you got engaged and like we were like, wait, let's have the wedding in September. It's like, you know, it's two months. That's two months from now. He's like, yeah, I wanted to do that.

[Host 2]

And that got shut down by I think our moms. I think maybe, maybe you a little bit. But I think you were also more, you were more down to like do a courthouse wedding or whatever. Yeah, but no, that's amazing.

[Amy Duggar King]

Some people get so caught up in like weddings, like the dress, the planning.

[Host 2]

For a whole year.

[Dylan King]

Our wedding was expensive.

[Amy Duggar King]

I love that. I love the courthouse. Or like, like just like eloping. I feel like that would be amazing.

[Host 1]

If I could elope.

[Amy Duggar King]

I would do it all over again.

[Dylan King]

We could have bought a really nice car for how much our wedding cost.

[Amy Duggar King]

Should have, should have. Maybe.

[Dylan King]

Which in hindsight, like it was a great, I mean it was a great day. Obviously don't regret it at all. Obviously. I'm talking about like how much we spent on the wedding. Everything else, like the, the, the.

[Amy Duggar King]

It's so expensive these days.

[Dylan King]

The logistics of a wedding. Right? Yeah. Cuz it was like 450 guests. It's a big wedding.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's huge.

[Dylan King]

It's a big wedding. But hindsight, like what you're talking about, like I would have much rather been like, let's throw that money in the bank for something else and let's take like a good chunk of it and go play like around Europe for like three weeks or you know, something like that.

[Amy Duggar King]

On a house.

[Dylan King]

And then when we got back, just be like. And then when we get back, let's just throw like a local, local party with close friends and family. Like that would have been way better.

[Host 2]

I, I think we've talked about a lot today. I know, I know. Your book, your book is now out. It's been out for a couple weeks now. Fully dis. So congratulations on your book. You know, it seems like you guys have an exciting. I think you mentioned there's a line of cozy blankets.

[Amy Duggar King]

So I'm doing a comfy cozy line. Because you like a lot of sassy like one liners on these sweatshirts.

[Dylan King]

Like sweatshirts and like loungewear. Like street wear, that kind of stuff.

[Host 2]

Okay. So not like it's, but it's like comfy, cozy. Yeah. Sweatshirt, sweet wear street Wear. Okay.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Very cool.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, so it's called Louder Threads and it'll be out in the December.

[Host 2]

Very cool.

[Amy Duggar King]

So coming up really soon.

[Host 2]

That's exciting.

[Dylan King]

Yeah, it's cool. We've been really busy.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be really good stuff. It's gonna be just like, like from a, like a mental health perspective of just like, I don't know, all the.

[Dylan King]

All the stains and like all the stuff like that is all like encouraging kind of things. It's all things that you can wear that maybe people can relate to in like their own life.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, I'm in my healing era, you.

[Host 2]

Know, and, and I'm sure, you know, I'm sure there's people, people listening to the podcast that are interested in the book. Haven't, haven't read yet. But I know there's probably a lot of people too that have finished the book because it's been out for a couple weeks. What do you have to say to those people who maybe are just wanting a life update from you on how things are now and what, what you currently are up to?

[Amy Duggar King]

Oh my goodness. I would just say thank you so much for your outpouring, like, love and support. It means a lot. It was the hardest project I ever had to do was to write this book and then be the audio voice for it because it just brought, it just brought a voice to the actual, of my actual truth in my story. And so I just hope it like resonates with their hearts, you know, I hope it encourages them in their own life that they can be holy disruptors and when they see something that needs to be broken in generational trauma, that they have the power and the courage to do so.

[Host 2]

That's awesome. Have you heard any stories of people reaching out and sharing like how. How it's affected their life and brought. Brought goodness into their life?

[Amy Duggar King]

I have had so many people reach out. I had one lady, I won't tell her name, but she got out of a 28 year marriage from someone who is physically abusing her. And she said that she, after reading my book, she sent me a message and said, your book has made me realize that I deserve peace. For a long time I didn't think I deserved what I was getting.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

And because of you, I have left and she got a restraining order and has moved out and is like. And it's not all about just like, you know, disrupting and like, and divorcing and it's not all these like really like heavy topics, but it's more of like Looking at the people in your life and being like, who is. Who is healthy, who is loving me and accepting me and. And, you know, is a good example for the people that I'm around for my kids and who. Who makes my heart feel happy. You know, those are the people that we should have in our inner circle.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

And. And the ones that don't. Well, you know, I believe that that's why there's boundaries. And so boundaries really protect you.

[Dylan King]

Yeah. There's been a lot of people reach out.

[Amy Duggar King]

There's been a lot. Many people.

[Host 2]

I'm so happy to hear that.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I guess my. My final question for you, and if this is too. Too much, I totally, like, no worries at all. I'm curious, like, if. If your dad, like, were here, if there's something for you to say to him, because it's been seven years, like, what. What would you, like, say to your dad?

[Amy Duggar King]

I would say that my life is at peace now. And I. I don't have any, like, bad, hard feelings toward him. I just. I know that he has to heal from the things that's hurt him in his life, and so I just wish him all the best, and. And I hope that healing is possible and hopefully his life.

[Host 2]

That's good. That's really good. Yeah, that's. That's cool that you have that, like, that outlook. So I'm sure it's very hard to, like, hope for something good for someone that hurts you a lot.

[Amy Duggar King]

Took me a while to get there.

[Dylan King]

Yeah.

[Amy Duggar King]

But. But now. But now that it's here, yeah, I. I feel like a totally different person.

[Host 2]

That's awesome.

[Amy Duggar King]

It's awesome.

[Host 2]

Well, Amy and Dylan, thank you again so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate you guys being here. And again, you guys can check out Amy's new book, Holy Disruptor. It's. I want to say, on Amazon, everywhere you find books, local bookstore. I'm sure they have it.

[Amy Duggar King]

Yeah, it's everywhere.

[Host 2]

Yes. So, guys, thank you so much again for being here.

[Amy Duggar King]

Thank you. Y' all are been. Y'. All. Y' all are great.

[Dylan King]

Thanks so much.

[Host 2]

Thank you so much.

[Amy Duggar King]

This is great.

[Dylan King]

And, Doug, here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Dark Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us.

[Host 2]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Liberty Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Dylan King]

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft.

[Host 2]

But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second.

[Dylan King]

If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply tired of.

[Host 2]

Juggling sales tools or spending hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings? Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contact contacts and AI that handles all your busy work, finding leads, drafting emails and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free today.