IVF, Miscarriage, and emergency surgery after egg retrieval w/ Tori Halford

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: IVF, Miscarriage, and Emergency Surgery after Egg Retrieval w/ Tori Halford
Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Matt (Abby is absent in this episode)
Guest: Tori Howell Alford – mom, content creator, and IVF advocate

---

Overview

In this deeply personal and candid episode, Matt welcomes Tori Howell Alford to discuss her journey with infertility, the challenges of IVF, repeated miscarriages, struggles with faith and purity culture, emotional and financial tolls of fertility treatments, and a rare post-IVF surgical emergency. They also explore Tori’s evolving relationship with her husband Tanner, how religious expectations influenced their marriage, and Tori’s entrepreneurship in the influencer space. Throughout, Tori offers sincere reflections and support to others navigating similar paths.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tori & Tanner’s Love Story and Relationship Challenges

Timestamps:

• [01:54] – [08:28]
  Highlights:
• Tori sets the “Utah dating scene,” emphasizing quick timelines and community/family pressures.
• She recounts her slow-burn romance with Tanner, initially rejecting him fourteen times before their first official (and ultimately magical) date.
  • “I opened the door for our first date, it was like, this was not the boy I thought I was talking to... love at first sight a little bit for me.” — Tori [04:40]
• Despite a long, promising relationship, they broke off their engagement due to church-imposed restrictions after “purity” rules were broken.
• Both experienced immense pressure from family and religious authorities (bishops), leading to a nine-month separation and significant personal growth for Tori.
  • “Do I want me to be happy or do I want to be a people pleaser my whole life?” — Tori [06:43]
• She describes the emotional burden of confession within the LDS church and the significant impact on her mental health.
• Matt and Tori deconstruct purity culture and its repercussions.

2. Struggles with Infertility and Beginning IVF

Timestamps:

• [15:04] – [18:12]
  Highlights:
• Tori recalls suspecting she’d face fertility challenges due to irregular cycles as an athlete.
• Difficulty getting pregnant led Tori to test for ovulation—discovering she wasn’t ovulating at all.
• She was able to expedite fertility treatment due to clear evidence (lack of ovulation).
• Early medication side effects included fainting episodes, underscoring the physical risks of fertility medications, e.g., fainting in Bear Lake, UT.

3. Financial and Emotional Costs of IVF

Timestamps:

• [18:12] – [24:44]
  Highlights:
• IVF is not covered by insurance, with each round costing $15–20k and each transfer about $8k.
• “Here we are spending 56 grand just for us to be able to have kids, too.” — Tori [32:55]
• Tori details the emotional rollercoaster of multiple IVF cycles, initial success with their son Rad, and multiple failed transfers following that.
• The frustration and pain of prepping for, experiencing, and later mourning unsuccessful transfers: “You try so hard, you’re putting your body through so much, to put that much effort into it and not be pregnant at the end... it kind of puts you at a place like, can we even do this anymore?” — Tori [24:20]
• Pressure to “just adopt” is addressed with nuance, recognizing adoption as beautiful but also articulating the desire for a biological child.

4. Miscarriage and Community Support

Timestamps:

• [24:44] – [41:04]
  Highlights:
• Tori opens up about the devastation of positive tests turning into failed bloodwork and miscarriage.
• She describes the loneliness, guilt, and emotional isolation common after miscarriage.
• Support from others who’ve been through loss is crucial:
  • “It’s the worst club with the best members.” — Tori [39:07]
• Tori shares that she and Tanner named their lost embryos, honoring them as real children.
  • “I wear this bee around my necklace because both of my babies that we lost were both B names—Boone and Blakely.” [42:42]
• Discussion about differences in grieving styles—Tori grieves inward, while Tanner seeks community.
• Tori emphasizes not complaining and not quitting as family values that help her persevere.

5. Emergency Surgery After Egg Retrieval (OHSS)

Timestamps:

• [25:59] – [29:58]
  Highlights:
• Following her first IVF retrieval, Tori developed severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS)—a rare but dangerous complication where the abdomen fills with fluid, causing excruciating pain and bloating.
• After being dismissed by providers, she finally underwent emergency surgery to drain two liters of fluid.
• “They were like, ‘this is so rare... we probably only have like one to two a year that this ever even happens to.’”—Tori [27:57]
• Second retrieval went much better, yielding 11 healthy embryos, six being double-A rated.
  • “We ended up getting 11 healthy embryos, six of those being double As, which is the best you can get.”—Tori [29:36]

6. Processes and Realities of IVF

Timestamps:

• [29:58] – [33:03]
  Highlights:
• Detailed explanation of stimulation protocols, the rationale for using birth control pre-retrieval, and the timing-intensive nature of the IVF process.
• Tori describes the intense, rigid calendar required for successful IVF, including daily bloodwork and precise medication dosing.
• Matt inquires about the injectable medications, stimulating follicle maturation and egg growth:
  • “When you have a cycle, I think you only mature one or two eggs... this time, I got 50 eggs from the retrieval.” — Tori [30:21]

7. IVF Ethics and Leftover Embryos

Timestamps:

• [55:15] – [60:55]
  Highlights:
• Tori discusses the moral complexities of having “extra” embryos after completing their family.
• She received questions about the morality of IVF, particularly from pro-life perspectives.
• Couples must decide whether to discard, donate, or use leftover embryos—decisions fraught with ethical, spiritual, and emotional weight.
• “We got 11 embryos. Right. And we’re not—most likely we’re not going to have 11 kids... yet these embryos still have life. Like, if they were put into another woman, they could have life 100%.” — Tori [56:07]
• The decision to fertilize a high number of eggs is driven by the unpredictability of embryo development—retrospective wishes to have fertilized fewer but recognizing the need to maximize chances.

8. Looking Ahead: Next Transfer and Boundaries

Timestamps:

• [51:52] – [55:15]
  Highlights:
• Tori and Tanner are choosing to keep their next transfer timeline private, prioritizing personal processing over sharing in real time.
• She acknowledges the immense pressure of public sharing and the pain of re-explaining losses.
• “We just decided this was kinda gonna be our last chance. And so I just wanted to give myself the time and space to process everything before going to the public about it.” — Tori [52:42]

9. Life Beyond IVF: Support, Community, & Business

Timestamps:

• [61:04] – [63:07]
  Highlights:
• Tori speaks about launching two companies:
  • Rad Talent Management (talent management for creators)
  • Her Turn (a supportive community for women in digital storytelling)
• She reflects on the importance of collaboration over competition and building women up in the content creation space.
• “We should be collaborating, not competing with one another because there’s a lot of comparison in social media.” — Tori [62:43]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Prolonged Infertility: “You’re spending so much money and you’re putting all this effort in for it to fail again. It kind of puts you at a place like, well, can we even do this anymore?” — Tori [24:20]
• On Shame in Purity Culture: “You do it because you love this person—and it’s a very normal feeling to have. And I think that’s why when I was met with... disappointment and shame, I’m like...Why?” — Tori [09:08]
• On Loss: “There’s nothing like having your own child and your own genes and your own genetics. And I think some people misinterpret that a little bit.” — Tori [34:14]
• On Parenting after Loss: “I wear this bee around my necklace because both of my babies that we lost were both B names, Boone and Blakely. And then I think of them as my angel babies and that I’ll see them in heaven someday.” — Tori [42:42]
• On Community: “It’s the worst club with the best members.” — Tori [39:07]
• On Grieving: “I grieve inward. I think I kind of shut people out a lot...where I think Tanner embraces the story and likes to be surrounded by people who genuinely love him.” — Tori [39:50]
• On the Moral Dilemmas of IVF: "It’s not like you really know what you’re going to get from a retrieval... you want to give yourself the best chance, though." — Tori [59:38]

---

Timeline of Important Segments

• [02:00] – Love story & early relationship challenges
• [05:34] – Broken engagement, religious pressures
• [13:33] – Lessons learned from failure and grief
• [15:21] – Infertility discovery, beginning treatment
• [18:16] – The high cost and uncertainty of IVF
• [19:39] – Multiple failures, hope after loss
• [24:03] – Experiencing miscarriage and picking up the pieces
• [25:59] – OHSS and emergency surgery
• [29:41] – Second retrieval success, hope moving forward
• [32:21] – Breaking down the numbers: IVF expenses
• [33:19] – Navigating social media and insensitive comments
• [39:07] – "The worst club with the best members": grief & community
• [42:42] – Naming babies lost to miscarriage
• [51:52] – Moving forward, boundaries on sharing online
• [55:29] – What happens to leftover embryos? Ethical questions
• [61:04] – Tori’s new ventures: Rad Talent & Her Turn

---

Tone and Language

The episode is honest, emotionally raw, and conversational. Tori is open about pain, faith, shame, resilience, and hope. The tone is supportive and educational for anyone wrestling with family-building or faith-related challenges.

---

Useful Takeaways

• IVF is financially, physically, and emotionally taxing. Tori’s story demystifies both the medical aspects and the hidden costs.
• Community support is vital. Both online connections and “those in the miscarriage/IVF club” offer vital understanding and strength.
• Personal boundaries on sharing are healthy. Tori demonstrates a mindful approach to what and when she shares—especially after public vulnerability.
• There is life after loss. Tori’s story includes business-building, new communities, and a broader purpose shaped by hardship.

---

For listeners navigating infertility or supporting those who are, this episode is validating, vulnerable, and packed with both practical details and emotional insights.

Transcript

[Matt]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's cybersecurity awareness month and Lifelock has tips to protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, report phishing, and update the software on your devices. And for comprehensive identity protection, let Lifelock alert you to suspicious uses of your personal information. Lifelock also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, safe and protected with a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com podcasts.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Terms apply with IVF. You're not supposed to take a pregnancy test, but you can. We're getting positive pregnancy tests every single day. We're so excited. And the call day comes as soon as she answered the phone. I was like, something's wrong. I've actually never talked about this before. I love the church and I love the gospel and I never want to come off as I'm against it, but I had a really hard time with it. You try so hard and you're putting your body through so much and you're also spending money each time for it to fail again. It kind of puts you at a place like, can we even do this anymore?

[Matt]

Today on Unplanned, we sat down with Tori Howell Alford, a mom and content creator who is currently going through IVF and documenting her whole journey online. While her first transfer was successful, she has since been met with miscarriage and two failed embryo transfers. We talk about everything from why she called off her wedding after her bishop encouraged her to the true cost of IVF and what her and her husband plan to do with their leftover embryos, all on today's episode. Also, quick disclaimer. Abby will be sitting this episode out. We just decided, given the nature of the topic as well as everything going on in our life, that it should be best for her to sit it out. So appreciate you guys understanding and again, thank you so much for everyone's kindness, love, prayers, thoughts, everything. It's. It's been meaning the world to us and we just really appreciate you all. So enjoy the episode. Tori Halford, welcome to Unplanned. Thank you.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Matt]

I gotta ask, like, this is the typical question we always ask anybody on show, but how did you and Tanner meet? What's your love story? I gotta, I gotta get the deets.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So I want to set the scene in Utah. It's very normal for people to meet and date for three months and get married.

[Matt]

That has to be, like, really scary.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Actually, a lot of times they kind of describe it as like, it's going to be your Prince Charming, and it's going to be this big, epic love story, and you're getting married, and you're going to be happily ever after. Where for me, it was. I mean, I'm happily ever after now, but that process of dating was. Was a very, like, a crucible in my life. It was kind of the moment where I broke free from what I thought my life was going to be like and kind of decided who I wanted to be as a person. So Tanner and I met at Utah Valley University, and we. The first time we met, he was kind of hanging around with some guys that I already kind of knew that I was like. We call them the Provo All Stars in Utah, but they're basically like the gym bros.

[Matt]

Okay?

[Tori Howell Alford]

The dudes, like, the frat boys, kind of.

[Matt]

Got it.

[Tori Howell Alford]

He came and approached me. He. I had my soccer friend with me, a soccer teammate, and we were kind of chatting. He asked for both of our numbers, and as soon as he did that, I was like, that's weird. He's just trying to get, like, all these girls numbers.

[Matt]

Did you ever get an explanation as to why he didn't just ask for your number alone?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yes. He said he was trying to be nice. Oh. He didn't want. He didn't want to make the other girl feel bad. So after that, he texted, and he was like, hey, let's go hike Mount Tibanogos at midnight. I'm like, I'm just now meeting you for the first time. You want to go at midnight to go hike to 12 hours? I'm like, I have no idea who you even are, besides the one time.

[Matt]

That we met, because the thing is, you, like, watch the sunrise together, right?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. That's what he wanted to do, is watch. It was very romantic.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Tori Howell Alford]

But in my head, it was like, he's going to be a serial killer and kill me up there.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So I said no. I have soccer practice in the morning, so I'll have to catch you a different time. Now fast forward to 14 more times over a span of six months. He asked me out, and I said no every single time.

[Matt]

That's hilarious. Why did you never block his number?

[Tori Howell Alford]

I think I was trying to be nice, too. I was trying to let him down softly and tell him no each time. And maybe. Maybe there's a reason why I didn't, because now, obviously, we're married, and I'm very grateful for it, but there was, like, a couple of things in there. Like, I tore my ACL My sophomore year of college, just a couple of months after we met, and I actually knew his older brother. We. We were in college together. We were in college sports kind of together at the same apartment village. And he was going to drop a basket off at my house, but we had not hung out or talked since. Basically the last time he had asked me out. We haven't, like, seen each other since. So I was like, that's really creepy that you're, like, trying to drop this nice basket off at my house. Like, I don't know who you are. How do you know where I live? Blah, blah. Funny story. He actually texted the girl who he got the number from, who was my soccer teammate, and asked her for my address. So it all comes first, full circle, you know?

[Matt]

That's hilarious.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Anyways, fast forward. We go on our first date. He asked me out one more time, and he's like, look, I'm going to pick you up. We're going to go do a basketball date, and I will have you home in two hours, and if you don't want to go out with me ever again, then I will stop bothering you. And I responded, I'm such a brat. But I responded, fine. It's funny because when I opened the door for our first date, it was like, this was not the boy that I thought I was talking to. It was like, love at first sight a little bit for me. Like, that would. That's the feeling that I would describe it because I was like, he is so handsome. I can't believe that this was the boy that's been texting me 14 times. Like, this can't be possible. And then we went on our first date and hung out every single day since.

[Matt]

That's awesome.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Except.

[Matt]

Except, what's the. What's the caveat here?

[Tori Howell Alford]

So we ended up. That was. We went on our first date in February, and then we got engaged that December. So almost about a year we'd been dating. And we had our wedding scheduled for March of that next year.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And we broke off our engagement.

[Matt]

Holy cow.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. Broke off our engagement.

[Matt]

What made you decide to call it off?

[Tori Howell Alford]

I think we both were feeling like it just wasn't working. Like it wasn't right. Things. Things weren't, like, falling into place. We had some, you know, outside pressure from families and things like that.

[Matt]

Was there, like, a certain family member that was like, hey, I don't know about this guy.

[Tori Howell Alford]

We broke up a few times here and there, even while we were dating. And I think my family was just like, look, you can Never figure it out with him. Let's move on a little bit. It's hard because in our religion, it's one of the advice they use is like, if your family does not agree with who you marry, then maybe you should consider someone else.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that was kind of like this fight that I was having with myself, you know, and I kind of had to decide on my own, like, what is the decision that I'm going to make. This is going to be who I spend the rest of my life with.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that summer where we were split apart for those nine months was like a very life changing summer for me. I had moved away from any friends and family. I was kind of all by myself. The people I was living with, I didn't even know. And I kind of had to figure out, like, do I want me to be happy or do I want to be a people pleaser my whole life and just do things the way that other people want me to do?

[Matt]

In a podcast I was listening to, you mentioned something about like, meeting with a bishop, which I don't know very much about. Like, that's something that I've, like, I've never experienced that. So, like, what, why, why was that?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. So obviously one of the things that the church asks of you is to be pure with your partner. And there were things that we were doing that obviously didn't go with that. And so we had to actually push off our marriage for a year.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And we had to meet with our bishops and kind of confess what we had done.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And going to the bishop, that's really hard to be like, look, I made a mistake. And then for them to be like, you can't get married, you have to wait a year or you need to get civilly married. Which wasn't. We. We didn't think that was really an option for us.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that was, that was a really hard, like, for my testimony in the church. That was a really hard process of. And I. And I know I've actually never talked about this before, like in a public forum, but it was something where I.

[Matt]

Felt like, you're good. Take, like, take your time.

[Tori Howell Alford]

No, I know. I. The hard part is I want. I love the church and I love the gospel and I never want to come off as I'm against it, I guess, but I think that's where I had this really hard time of, you know, this is like the first time I've really liked, messed up or, you know, confessed a sin that was more serious than, you know, little white lies. Or things like that. And I had a really hard time with it. It was something that, you know, affected my mental health a lot. And it was something that I kind of had to go through by myself to figure out, you know, if this was something that I wanted to be a part of and if it was something that was important to me.

[Matt]

Yeah, I always find it interesting, especially when it comes to, like, purity culture across, like, all faith backgrounds, because so many people, like, find themselves, especially young people that are just figuring stuff out are like, what's wrong with me? Why do I. Like, why do I feel all this attraction to my. My girlfriend of nine months or whatever? And it's like, I don't know, maybe it's because you love them.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah, maybe because it's normal to feel that way. You know, that was one thing. We had a bishop who was like, you know what? Like, yes, is this hard for you guys to go through? But out of all the problems that you could have, this is the best problem you could have.

[Matt]

And I don't want to, like, you know, ask too, too much, but, like, is that also part of the reason that you guys were, like, breaking up and stuff?

[Tori Howell Alford]

For sure. And that was more me. I feel like every time there would be some type of mess up, I'd be like, you're. Because they basically say, you know, you need to hold yourself pure. And if I wasn't holding myself pure, then obviously this isn't the right person to be with. But that's, yeah, backwards thinking. It's like, no, you do it because you love this person. Person. And it's a very normal feeling to have. And I think that's why when I was met with kind of like, disappointment and shame, I'm like, why? Because I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm trying to do what you guys have taught me to do and why. I'm not saying it needs to be celebrated, but at the same time, it could be, you know, respected.

[Matt]

And so calling off the. The wedding was essentially because of the bishop telling you guys you had to, or both of your bishops telling you guys you had to.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Both of our bishops told us we had to push off the wedding.

[Matt]

Gotcha.

[Abby]

And.

[Matt]

And so announcing that to your community. Did the people know why, or was it more of just. You didn't. You didn't say.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Our parents knew why. We. We sat down with both sides of our parents and told them, you know, what had happened and what we had to do, but it wasn't like we went and announced it to you know, everyone in the community at this time, it wasn't like we. I wasn't even really doing social media. It was like you'd post, you know, fun things. Like, I was soccer player, so I'd post soccer things or when I got engaged. But yeah, it was definitely something that people talked about and probably guessed, but never, it was never, like, said by us.

[Matt]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. October 10th was World Mental Health Day. And this year we're saying thank you to therapists. I've been going to therapy. I know Abby's been going to therapy recently. You should do it too. Okay. But seriously though, if you haven't heard of BetterHelp, it's entirely online, so convenient too, because you can switch your provider at any point. If you're not vibing with your therapist or you just didn't feel like you connected with them after the first few sessions, you can switch the completely for free at any time. They don't charge you more to do that. I've been seeing so many benefits in my life through therapy, and I just feel more grounded as a human, especially when it comes to, like, processing, like, really dark, traumatic things. It's. It's great. I love, I love therapy and I think, I think everyone should probably at some point try it out.

[Abby]

Yeah. I mean, therapy isn't just for, like, the deep, traumatic times. It's great for that, but it's also good for just like, everyday decision making, emotional regulation and Better Help is an amazing resource because with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally.

[Matt]

And with how busy our lives are getting these days, it's so convenient because you can reach your therapist with a click of a button. So this World Mental Health Day, we are celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start the journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first first [e-mail] unplanned. That's Better H lp.com unplanned and so calling off the wedding, that, like, that must have driven probably both of you guys to a pretty dark place.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah, it was really hard. And the hard part about it was I think we both had agreed it wasn't like one party over the other. It was kind of like we. He had a phone, we had a phone call because he was selling in a different state at the time when we actually Broke it off. And it just was like a phone call of, this just isn't working. Why is this becoming so hard? You know, we weren't congruent with each other. I don't know. Like, looking back, I think I blame myself. I don't really feel like it was Tanner at all.

[Matt]

Why do you blame yourself?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Because I was the one that wasn't committed. Like, I was the one that was half in, half out at all times. Like, it was never. Like, I was always like, well, maybe.

[Matt]

Like, wait, are you saying. What are you saying you're blaming yourself for, like, for the, the purity issues or for calling off the wedding?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Calling off the wedding. I think if I would have been 100% from the very get go and kind of was like, no, this is the decision I'm going to make. Like, you can either get on board or get. Get off board. I think it would have made it a lot smoother of a transition. But at that time, I was like trying to play the mediator and be like, oh, sorry, no, you're good. And it was just. It was a really. It was like I was in a rock and a hard place. You know, I couldn't. I felt like I couldn't make either side happy. And I think that was another thing that kind of weighed on my mental health a little bit because I got to a very dark place at this time. And yeah, it was just. It was hard. It was really, really hard.

[Matt]

What did you learn, you know, from. From that experience? I think, like, when. Whenever something bad happens in life, it's almost like you have to choose either to just like, let it. I don't know, just. My dad always had this saying. He would tell me, he's like, you can choose to be bitter or better. I have a feeling that you probably ended up creating meaning out of this really tough time. What was that?

[Tori Howell Alford]

I think I go back to soccer. As an athlete, you have a lot of failures, but you either get over them and work harder or you let it derail you and you quit. And I've just never been someone that quits. I've always been someone that tries their best. Like, even when I was playing soccer, I had three years with a coach that didn't really believe in me, but yet the whole time I was trying to prove myself to him. And I'd work harder and I'd pass every fitness test and I would try to be the first one to finish something. And I think it's just a testament of like, I. When the going gets tough, I fight Harder. And that's how I feel about mine and Tanner's relationship. Out of everything that I've done in my life, and that relationship is what I fought for the most, which means it's the most valuable to me. And that's the meaning that I get from it. It's just how much I love him and how much I love our relationship. And knowing that this is my life and it's my decision, and it doesn't really matter what other people think. Which I think has now segued into social media, where you get a lot of, you know, hate comments here and there, but if I know who I am as a person, then it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks about me.

[Matt]

Fast forward, you know, you guys end up getting back together. You get married in the temple. You, like, are married for multiple years, just, like, doing your thing. Life's great. And then you go to start having children and what happens?

[Tori Howell Alford]

So I always thought that I would. There was, like, always a thought in the back of my mind that I would have trouble with having children. I think it's because as an athlete, I was running a lot. I was always super active. So, like, my cycle wasn't very regular. And I think in the back of my mind, I was always like, I think it's going to be tough for me, but who knows, you know? Who knows? And so I think we got married and we got married in 2018. We started trying in 2020, and I've tried for the first couple of months, and I, you know, we weren't getting pregnant. And I have a lot of sisters in laws who had kids at the time, and they were like, why don't you take an ovulation test and see if you're ovulating? So I was like, oh, perfect. And then started taking the tests and was never getting a positive test. And so I'm like, what does this mean? Like, I'm never ovulating. Like, what? Like my body's not working. Like, what's going on? And so that's when I booked my first appointment with fertility specialist, which I'm very grateful for, because a lot of the times with infertility, you have to try for at least a year before you can even get into a fertility. Fertility specialist. Like, that's kind of the standard that they give you. But because I knew that I wasn't ovulating, they let me in, which I'm so grateful for, because now it's like, I don't. I'm not delayed another year.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So Went into my fertility specialist. They put me on some medications that got me to ovulate, but we still weren't having kids. Some of the medications were really tough to be on. There was one time where I was surfing on the back of a boat, it was a family vacation. And fainted while I was surfing, Fell into the water. Everyone's freaking out. Tanner jumps into the water, tries, is trying to save me. He doesn't have his life jacket on. My father in law is turning the boat around. While he's doing that, another one of my brother in law is falling off the boat like it was.

[Matt]

So did you say you didn't have a life jacket on?

[Tori Howell Alford]

I did, but Tanner did when he jumped in because he was like so worried. And he jumped in after me because they knew that something was wrong.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And then it was like the next hour I was just limp and they were trying to get me out of the water because we were at Bear Lake and there's not like a major hospital there. And so trying to figure out where they could take me and figure out what was going on was really hard. Anyways, it ended up being the fertility medication that I was on.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So it's just like fertility is very hard on our bodies as women. Like the hormones that you're taking, it just makes you feel a little bit crazy at the same time. And all the hormones that you already have as a woman are like heightened to the max.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so went through that summer, didn't get pregnant. Finally we got to a point where they're like, okay, your next thing is IUI or you move on to ivf. And we were like, you know what, we just want results, like at this point, because there's a lot of unexplained things. Like, okay, you're ovulating. We don't really know why you're getting pregnant. We don't know why, we don't know why, we don't know why. And there was nothing physically wrong with me that they could diagnose me with either. So then we were like, let's just get answers. We went to ivf, started that whole process that took like a year just to get into, get seen by an IVF specialist as well, because they're so backed up and finally got in, had a retrieval, had a transfer and got pregnant my first time, which was amazing for us. It was such a blessing and such a miracle that we, we were able to get pregnant.

[Matt]

This must be expensive. Like, what, does insurance cover this?

[Tori Howell Alford]

No.

[Matt]

Like what, how much are we Talking about to. To do ivf, like, what does that cost?

[Tori Howell Alford]

So each thing is a different cost, I think, total in the whole round of doing an egg retrieval and doing a transfer. For us, it was around, like, 15 to 20K the first time. And there's no. No insurance covers it. I know. Yeah, there's no insurance. Does not cover.

[Matt]

Like, it never covers it.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Never covers it. Obviously, we're still struggling now into. With IVF and getting pregnant again. So we had Rod. He's been our blessing and our miracle, and he's our. He's just our whole world. And finally we decided that we wanted to try again, and we had. So when you do an egg retrieval, they give you, like, you do a bunch of eggs, and then you fertilize all those eggs, and then you can get multiple embryos. So we had five, and Rod was one of the five that we had. So we had four more embryos that we could still transfer. You don't have to do a whole nother egg retrieval. You just have to do another transfer.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So we tried our first transfer last, I think, January, did all the medications, and at this point, we thought, you know, IVF was our. The thing that was going to work for us because we got pregnant the first time, and so we never had any doubt that it wasn't going to work. I think we were a little naive to think that and did the transfer, and sadly, the embryo did not take, which is funny, because next week is actually my due date for that embryo that we transferred.

[Matt]

I'm so sorry.

[Tori Howell Alford]

No, it's okay. So we kind of bounced right back afterwards because we really wanted to be pregnant again. And so I think in March, we did another transfer and got the results back pregnant. And we were so excited. So excited. We, like, filmed the whole experience. And I took a pregnancy test every single day because kind of with ivf, it's like, you're not supposed to take a pregnancy test, but you can, like, five days after your transfer. And when I did it with rad, it was positive, and I surprised Tanner. And it's always this fun thing that we do, and this time, I took a pregnancy test every single day. And then when you have a blood test, that will basically tell you yes it worked or no, it didn't. So we were getting positive pregnancy tests every single day. And the call day comes, and we're so excited, and we're filming it all, and we can't wait to celebrate with, you know, friends and family. And as soon as she answered the call and, like, the way she said hello, because you work with your nurse coordinators a lot throughout this whole process because there's a lot of appointments, a lot of medications that you have to be taking every day. As soon as she answered the phone, I was like, something's wrong. Like, she's not like, oh, my gosh, congratulations. Like, she kind of was like, okay, like, we gotta talk about a couple of things. And she's like, your results showed that you're pregnant, but your levels are really low for you to be pregnant right now. So she's like, but I've seen it where your levels double and you have successful pregnancies, But I've also seen it where they just keep going down and you're not pregnant anymore and you miscarry. And so we had to do another blood test, and it was like a Saturday, and we were actually leaving. It was Tanner's birthday the next week, and we always do this big trip to Green river, and it's really exciting, and we do it every year, and it's something that's really fun for our family. And we had to go in that Saturday to, like, a different clinic because a lot of clinics are closed on Saturday. And got the results back that next Monday, we're in Green River. We're about to celebrate, like, with all our friends and family. It was, like, the perfect place to announce that we were pregnant, too, because all of our friends and family were gonna be there. And it was also Tanner's birthday. We get our results, and we kind of had them in our email the whole day. And we were delaying it, delaying it, delaying it, delaying it. And finally we're like, it's either we do it today, and we kind of have a day to, like, get over it before everyone starts showing up, or we have to wait the whole week. And I was like, I'm not waiting the whole week.

[Abby]

This episode of the unplanned podcast is brought to you by Wild Grain. I started my bread Journey, my sourdough bread journey, couple months back, and it's time consuming, y'.

[Tori Howell Alford]

All.

[Matt]

And that is exactly why Wild Grain was started. It's the first baked from frozen subscription box for artisanal breads, seasonal pastries, and fresh pastas. Plus, all items conveniently bake in 25 minutes or less. And let me tell you guys, Abby made some croissants from Wild Grain the other day, and these croissants filled up our house with the best smell ever.

[Abby]

They have amazing croissants. Like Matt said, apple cider donuts. We have pumpkin biscuits, all the delicious seasonal breads that you love having homemade, but with the convenience of it being almost all the way done in frozen. And bake them in your own oven. Oh, my gosh.

[Matt]

And the croissants tasted better than they smelled, if that gives you an idea of how good we're talking about these croissants.

[Abby]

And unlike store bought, Wild Grain uses a slow fermentation process that's easier on your belly, richer in nutrients and antioxidants, and made with simpler ingredients you can pronounce. Their boxes are fully customizable, and they're constantly adding seasonal and limited time products for you to enjoy. This fall, treat yourself and your loved ones to warm sourdough breads and seasonal baked goods from Wildgreen. Rumor has it that they have apple cider donuts and pumpkin cinnamon biscuits, so get them before their seasonal items sell out. For a limited time, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off the first box plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.comunplanned to start your subscription. You heard me. Free croissants in every box and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com unplanned. That's wildgrain.com unplanned or, or you can use promo code unplanned at checkout. Don't miss their seasonal products.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And at this point, I was still like, it's pregnant. Like, there's no way. It's not. And then we open our letter and we find out we miscarried.

[Matt]

I'm so sorry.

[Tori Howell Alford]

No, I mean, I'm so sorry. You know, I feel like it's really hard and you know, you guys are going through the same experience right now. And my heart goes out to you.

[Matt]

Thank you.

[Tori Howell Alford]

But yeah, it's, it's something that, you know, you try so hard, like in your putting your body through so much to put that much effort into it and not be pregnant at the end and spend. And you're also spending money each time. Like every single time we do a transfer, it's like eight grand. So you're spending so much money and you're putting all this effort in for it to fail again. It kind of puts you at a place like, well, can we even do this anymore?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Like, is this something we want to continue or is like another route we have to take? And I kind of blame myself because I'm like, it's my, like somewhere. It's something with me where I can't figure out. And we have no explanation for. For why we're going through this. So it's been hard. And we had a meeting with our doctor afterwards, and she kind of had to be real honest with us. And she's like, we. I got tested for endometriosis, for pcos, for everything. And she's like, oh, everything's coming out clear. Like, nothing. We can't figure out anything that's physically wrong with you. And she's like, look, I think we need to do another retrieval and try to get a grade A, which, with the embryos that you get, we had five. Rod was a grade A embryo, which is like, the best embryo you can get. And then it goes bcd, and we had transferred both B's that had failed. And so she's like, I think we try one more time, and we try to get as many A embryos as we can. And if this transfer, though, doesn't work for you guys, then I think it's time to consider surrogacy.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And, like, hearing that word for me was like, what? Like, you're telling me I'm not going to be able to carry any more babies of mine?

[Matt]

And this was this conversation that you had with the doctor. How recent was this?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Is probably in June.

[Matt]

This is. Okay, in June.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So very reset.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so we kind of had to make some decisions on what we were wanting to do next. And we're like, we're going to try it one more time. We're going to do it. We're going to. We're young enough. We can do this. I want to carry another baby. So we dove right in again to do another egg retrieval, which I just finished probably around a month ago. And that was really scary for me, too, because the first time I did an egg retrieval, I got ohss, which is ovarian. It's like hyper ovarian stimulation or something like that. And basically, it's like when you take out the eggs, your body fills up with fluid. And my body wasn't absorbing the fluid fast enough. And so I was looked five months pregnant. I was so bloated, and I was in so much pain. Probably the most amount of pain I've ever been in my entire life.

[Matt]

And this was the day after the egg retrieval.

[Tori Howell Alford]

It progressively got worse. So it's five days after now. And I was calling the fertility clinic every single day. Like, what's going on? Like, I. I pride myself on having a high pain tolerance, but, like, something's wrong. Something's wrong. They're like, just wait. It will get better. It will get better. And finally, day five, I'm, like, curled up in the bathroom. I'm fainting. I'm passing out. I'm throwing up. I have nothing else left to throw up. And I'm calling Tanner, trying not to pass out. I'm like, you have to come get me right now, and you need to take me to the fertility clinic, because I'm not okay.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So call the fertility clinic. They're like, yeah, we'll see you. But you have to come to this different location, which was, like, 45 minutes from our house now, which usually is, like, only 15. So we had to drive all the way there. As soon as they see me, they're like, yeah, something's wrong. You need to be sent to the other clinic, which is the one by our house. So they sent us back up to the house and. Or. Sorry. To the other clinic. And had. I had to have emergency surgery. I had a drain and had two liters come out. And as soon as that happened, I felt so much better. Gosh.

[Matt]

But this is the first, though, right? Like, that. Oh, it does not happen.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Does not happen.

[Matt]

That's why when you called initially, they're like, oh, this is normal. You're not going to feel that great afterwards. Because everyone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone that goes through an egg retrieval has some form fluid go there. Yeah, but you just had so much.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Too much.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And they. Yeah, when they. When I went in, they were like, this is so rare. Like, we do thousands and thousands of egg retrieval, and we probably only have, like, one to two a year that this ever even happens to.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so I was like, wow, just my luck. Like, this is what's happened. So that was my first one. So then we had to go into my second one and preparing for that, I was like, I have to prepare to, like, go through that again.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And, like, at least I knew what I was looking for this time, and I was better prepared. But it was like I told Tanner before we were having all this infertility, I told him. I was like, I'm never doing an egg retrieval again. That's never going to happen to me again. And then this is where we are. And I had to kind of make a decision, like, you're either doing it or you're not. And he. He's really been my supporter the whole time, saying, you know what? You can do this. This is something you can do. So we went ahead, did the egg retrieval, and I happily would like to report that I did not get ohss.

[Matt]

Let's go.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And had a very, very easy recovery. Wow. So if you're scared of ohss, just know the next time's probably better.

[Matt]

That is. That's really good to hear.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Holy cow. You guys have. I mean, you especially have been through the ringer.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Oh, my goodness.

[Tori Howell Alford]

This year especially, like, there's just been so much going on this year, and a lot of life changes, a lot of infertility, and I've been battling, you know, the emotions with infertility and the medications that I'm taking while doing major, like, business things and opening up businesses, and it's. It. It was a very big year for me, and I turned 30, just barely. So 30 years old. It's a very big year. But we got our results back for our embryos, and we ended up getting 11 healthy embryos, six of those being double as, which is the best you can get. So we had a very successful retrieval.

[Matt]

So six were double A's with the initial egg retrieval. How many did you have that were.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Just one. And that was rad.

[Matt]

No. So that's really promising.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yes, very promising. My doctor called, and she's like, it's not normal for your second retrieval to be even better than your first, because the younger you are, the better.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so she's like, this is amazing. This is, like, the most amazing results you could ever get.

[Matt]

Did they put you on any sort of medication to, like, boost egg numbers before the retrieval? Is that.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah, you're on, like, I would say the medication for egg retrievals are way harder than the medicines you get for transfers.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

You're just, like, your body. You're basically getting double the estrogen, double everything, and your eggs are all expanding at once. So normally when you have a cycle, I think you only, like, mature one or two eggs.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And this time, you're. I. I got 50 eggs from the retrieval.

[Matt]

The second one, too.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yes, from the second one, because was.

[Matt]

It was the first 46. And the second one.

[Tori Howell Alford]

The first one. What was it Tan. The first one was 50. The second one was 49.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

But both around 50.

[Matt]

When I see videos about people going through IVF, I always see, like, our friends down in Bella who've been through it. Like, you're constantly, like, stabbing yourself with a needle and injecting something in your body. That's. Is that. What is that?

[Tori Howell Alford]

That's the medications.

[Matt]

Okay. That's. That's, like, before an egg retrieval. To boost. Yep, to boost up everything.

[Tori Howell Alford]

To, like, Help your mature. Your eggs all mature to help your uterus to, like, literally to help everything get. Be the most successful that it can.

[Matt]

And so that is. How long is that process before?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Around, like, three weeks.

[Matt]

Oh, okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Like four to three weeks. But like, even before then for me, since I have such irregular periods, I have to be on birth control and a birth control pill for the month before that. And so, like, we all.

[Matt]

I'm confused by that. Why the birth control? Why is there birth control involved in the ivf?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Okay, so with ivf, I don't get it.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's so confusing.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So with ivf, it's all timed to, like, the T, and you have to get, like, even before the retrieval, I was getting blood work done every day because it all has a timing. So the reason why they put you on birth control is because let's say you start your period, they want to freeze you exactly where you are. And that's what birth control does. It will freeze exactly where you are in your cycle.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. So then, because you have to be ovulating, and then, like, it's all very timed.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Like, even when we did my retrieval, it was like I was progressing too fast. That they're like, we would plan my retrieval for Monday, and I had to go in on Sunday because that's just where my body was progressing.

[Matt]

Okay, back to the cost thing. Because I. I'm like a numbers guy. I'm a math nerd. I just like to. Financial information. What? Like, what do you guys know how much you've spent on this? Like, if you could, like, sum it all up out of pocket, what that costs.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So the first round was, like, 20 ish. The two transfers were 16.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Then the retrieval was probably another start.

[Matt]

Interrupt. 16 grand each or.

[Tori Howell Alford]

No, 8 grand.

[Matt]

8 grand per transfer.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And then. But we lost the two. So 20 plus 16, plus the retrieval now, which. Well, let's just say another 20, because we'll do a transfer. So 20, 16 and 20. I'm not good with math.

[Matt]

Okay, so we're at 56.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

That's a lot of money.

[Tori Howell Alford]

A lot of money. And the crazy part is people do it for free. That's the crazy part. You can have kids for free.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

You know?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And here we are spending 56 grand for. Just for us to be able to.

[Matt]

Have kids, too, with going through this. And I'm like, I'm so happy that the egg retrieval went really well. Like, how does it make you feel as someone who's going through this if someone just Like, Willy Nilly says something with without much thought, like, oh, why don't you adopt? Like, how does that. How does that make you feel as someone going through this?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah, there's a lot of comments that you get. Like, I posted something the other day about seeing pregnancy announcements and how it's not that you're not happy for them, but it's just you're going through something and you want it so badly. And so seeing it over and over, and there's like a pregnancy season, and I feel like it's right now.

[Matt]

Ye.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And seeing, you know, five announcements in a day, it gets harder and harder each time. And I had a couple of comments on it that was like, you should be grateful. You already have one kid, and then why don't you just go adopt then? And you're right. Adoption is wonderful, and I'm so grateful for it. I'm so grateful for surrogacy. If we want to have kids, we have options, and I'm so grateful for those. But there's nothing like having your own child and your own genes and your own genetics. And I think some people misinterpret that a little bit. And I. It's like a sensitive situation because adoption is such a wonderful thing and so grateful. But having your own child is something that you always dreamed about too.

[Matt]

Totally.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And I don't feel like that's lesser than, like, wanting. That is less than wanting to have an adoption.

[Abby]

You know, I have been an avid walker recently. It's cooled down a lot. And I've just really loved the process of slowing down and listening to a good audiobook while I do so. And Audible's Romance collection has something to satisfy every side of you. I love a good romance.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Abby]

Just makes your heart feel good. It makes me want to, like, do more romantic things in my life as well.

[Matt]

It's inspiring.

[Abby]

They have something for every kind of taste in there. Say, for instance, you fancy a dalliance with a duke or perhaps a sexy billionaire. Find a book boyfriend in the city and another on the hockey field. Or if nothing on this earth satisfies you, you can always find love in another realm.

[Matt]

Wow. You know, when I listen to my audio books with Audible Romance, I usually like to fancy a dance with the duke.

[Abby]

Dalliance.

[Matt]

What even is. What is a dalliance? I don't even know if that word.

[Abby]

Means you need to look it up.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Abby]

Hear modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood and the latest romantic series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros and Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander, plus all the really steamy stuff. Okay. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.comunplanned.

[Matt]

What was going through your head when. When you found out you miscarried? Because my wife and I are currently going through that. Like, we're currently grieving through that. And I feel like I'm learning. I just went to therapy yesterday to talk through that with my therapist because I'm still, like, I don't know. Sometimes I, like, I numb out and I just don't want to think about the heavy stuff because it just. It's scary. And I have a really. I don't cry much, but when I do cry, like, it's really embarrassing. Like, it's a pretty, like, loud. Like. Like it's bad. It's really bad. Like, talk to me about what was going through your head. Yeah. Finding out that you miscarried, I think.

[Tori Howell Alford]

There'S a lot of emotions that you process. I think as women, because we carry the baby, we blame ourselves a lot, which I don't think is fair.

[Matt]

Not fair. Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

But I think not having an explanation for why or maybe being like, because with a transfer, you have princess days where you're not supposed to do anything, you're not supposed to work out or raise your blood pressure because you're really trying to make that embryo stick. And so I honestly, the first thing I thought about was everything that I did, and I was like, what did I do that miscarry? Because we got pregnant? So it was like, what did I do that ruined it? You know, that basically killed my baby is how I. How I felt. And we can't think like that because we have no idea what happened or, you know, what was going to happen. But honestly, it's very. And it's. You have your husband and you're so grateful for them, but it is very much like a grieving, lonely process because you are the one going to all the appointments and doing the medications and. And kind of just feeling like you're on your own because it's your fault. It's like, how I. The best way to describe it. And I remember in the video that we posted, I actually cut this part out, I believe, but I. I had said, like, what did I do wrong? Like, what did I do? And Tanner had such great, great advice in that video. You know, he said, everything happens in God's plan. And I know a lot of people hate hearing that, but standing Where I am today, I can look back and be like, there was so many opportunities, so many doors that opened for me, even though that door closed, and I want it so bad. There's so many more opportunities that I was also blessed with during this process that I'm so grateful for as well. There was things. There's other things I got to focus on. I got to spend more time with Rad. There's, you know, things that I didn't get to miss out on.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that's really all the things that I can, like, hope for, is that God has a plan for me, and there's a reason why we're going through this. And if I can just help as many people out there as I can going through this process again, then maybe it won't feel so lonely for people.

[Matt]

There was a lady that reached out to my wife recently, and this woman has had two miscarriages. One was a bit earlier, and then one was, like, upwards of 30 weeks pregnant. And so she just, you know, went on. Went on a walk with Abby, and they just talked, and they got to, like, you know, grieve together, mourn together, but then also, just, like, share in the reality of them being in this. This dumb club, this. This miscarriage club, which I'd never even heard of that being a club until we were at the hospital last week, and a nurse who had been through that, like, just. She was like, welcome to the dumb club. And I'm like, what? Like, so I. I. Where am I going with this?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Well, someone. Someone said the same thing to me. It said, it's the worst club with the best members.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And it's true. It's like, the only people you can really connect to on this are the people that have gone through it as well. And you can really lean on because they do understand what you're going through.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And I think that really is, like, the truest thing. Like, the people that have reached out to me because of this experience, like, have helped so much. And their advice and the way that they grieve and telling me resources and things that I can do, it just helps a ton. And I feel like people share so much when they go through it. And I'm so grateful for everyone that has reached out, and I'm sure Abby is so grateful for everyone that has reached out to her, because it is. It is really hard to go through.

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, like, what did you learn about how you grieve and how Tanner grieves through. Through all of that?

[Tori Howell Alford]

I grieve inward I think I kind of shut people out a lot, and I don't like to let people in. And I don't think it's because I mean to. I think it's more. Because the more I talk about it, this, the sadder I get where I think Tanner embraces people and he. He kind of embraces the story, and he likes to be surrounded by people who genuinely love him and care for him. And honestly, though, we grieve really well together. Like, we were able to. Tanner's really good at being like, yes, this is hard, and yes, this stinks, but we gotta move forward. We can't stay in this darkness. We have to move forward. We have to be productive. We have to do something with this.

[Matt]

Was that what you needed to hear?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. I was super grateful for it because it. It's true. It's like the more you sit and wallow and be just in sadness, because I could just sit here and be like, well, you know what? I'm never going to do anything again. I'm never going to have kids again, and I could have a terrible attitude about it. Or you can, you know, move forward. You can try. You can uplift others. You can, you know, have. You can share your story so that others feel lonely. Like, there's so much benefit that comes from this as well, even though it's such a tough situation.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And we have this thing in our house that we don't complain and we're not quitters. And that really did help me. And staying busy also helped. Being able to have other projects to work on helped a ton and to focus my energy on something else.

[Matt]

I was curious about that because I know my default is definitely to be like, oh, let's think about the positives. Let's think about all the good, like, for the future. I don't know, like, to try to turn something crappy into something good.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But I also know, like, for a lot of people that are. That are grieving and a lot of people, they. They need to hear someone just, like, have empathy.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And. And I don't know, like, sometimes I know it's. It's different with your situation, with. With ivf, but a common thing with miscarriages. Oh, just have another one. Like, oh, just. Just have another baby. And it's like, no, it's like, I wanted that specific baby. Like, that was. That was our baby. That was. That was the whole plan all along.

[Tori Howell Alford]

One thing that made it, I feel, like, feel real for us is that we still gave our babies names because to Us, they're our babies. Like, that's always how we thought about them. We never thought about them any other way. And I think it's a little different because, like, looking back, it's like, oh, we knew we were going to have, you know, four more kids, and those were. That was going to be our family and that. So I wear this bee around my necklace because both of my babies that we lost were both B names, Boone and Blakely. And then I think of them as my angel babies and that I'll see them in heaven someday. Like, that's. That's the way that I know that I'm gonna still have those babies one day.

[Matt]

That's really sweet.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I also know you've mentioned on a podcast that you wanted to have five kids. Has that. Has that changed? Is that something? It has changed.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Well, I just think it's more of being realistic.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

I'm 30, he's 31, and we're getting older, and obviously we don't know what I think. I think before it was like, oh, we're gonna have five kids, it's gonna be easy, and we're gonna get pregnant each time. And I think now it's much more like, okay, what's realistic for us and what. We're just grateful, Honestly, we say all the time, maybe we only have one. Maybe it's just. It's just rad. Obviously, we want more, but I think we prepare ourselves for the worst a little bit.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And I think realistically, for us, as many babies as we can get will be great, but I don't think we'll make it to five. I mean, maybe, but hopefully. But realistically, I just don't think it's possible even.

[Matt]

Is that something that, like, your doctor has said, or you're just trying to, like, prepare yourself?

[Tori Howell Alford]

I think we're just trying to. I mean, by 40, you have a high risk pregnancy. So even if I was to, you know, do a kid every two years, it's like, that would be 40 years old and I would have all my five kids.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

But that's the next 10 years for me. And is that realistic? I mean, it's now taking us a year where we thought we were gonna get pregnant the first time, where we were still not pregnant. And then also we'll have another year before we have another baby, because if I do get pregnant, it's, you know, nine months. So it's just like the time that we're. I feel like we're running out of time a little bit.

[Abby]

Something about Fall is my favorite time to go shopping for clothes. I love a fall wardrobe. I love all the cozy staples, the little boots coming out again, sweaters. I just, I'm all about it. And one of my favorite places to pick up some new fall selections has been Revolve. You guys. I just placed a really big order. I was so excited for my order to come in. I got sets from free people. I got some new Nikes, some little Ugg ankle boots. So many fun and cozy staples that I'm gonna get for seasons and seasons to come. Because Revolve has some of the best brands. They actually have over 1,200 brands and a hundred thousand styles across fashion, beauty and home. From high end to emerging and exclusive labels. They consistently offer the latest and most sought after trends in fashion with new arrivals daily. They have inclusive sizing options from extra extra small to 4x. I love Revolve too because their shipping comes so, so fast. So whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or just a little style refresh, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to Revolve.com Unplanned Shop My Edit and take 15% off your first order with code UNPLANNED. They also have fast two day shipping. Like I was saying, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's Revolve.com Unplanned to shop my favorites and get 15% off your first order with code unplanned. Offer ends October 29th. So happy shopping.

[Matt]

You've probably seen a million ads for hair growth products and thought, do these actually work?

[Abby]

And I truly believe that Nutrafol works. I actually have proof from my hairdresser. She spends all day, every day touching people's heads. And she did tell me the last time I got my haircut, she was like, abby, your hair has grown so, so much. It grows so much faster, like double the speed from what I normally see. And I'm like, well, I take Nutrafol. Does that have anything to do with it? And she told me that she absolutely believes that Nutrafol does what it says it does. It's actually the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over 1.5 million people. I actually just gifted some Nutrafol to a who had a baby because hair shedding can happen for a million different reasons, but it is really common postpartum. So much confidence comes from your hair, especially as a woman. So it's nice to have a brand that's looking out for you looking out.

[Matt]

For your hair and you can feel great about what you're putting into your body. Since Nutrafol hair growth supplements are backed by peer reviewed studies and NSF content certified, the gold standard in third party certification for supplement.

[Abby]

It's the real deal, you guys. And adding Nutrafol into your daily routine is super simple. You can purchase it online, no prescription required. And you can set up automated deliveries and free shipping so you can stay on track. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code Unplanned Pod. Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code unplanned pod that's neutrophil.com promo.

[Matt]

Code unplanned pod with having six double A embryos now, like, is there any sort of idea of, oh, let's like, do they in the past, have they implanted one embryo or was it multiple or.

[Tori Howell Alford]

It's funny that you bring this up because we literally just had the meeting with our doctor because we're like, let's do two. Yeah, we, we were like, I was always scared of having twins. I mean, first because I was a new mom and I was like, oh, twins just sounds scary. So let's start with one. And then we were just gonna transfer another one and kind of do our kids that way. And now we're to a point where it's like, well, we could do twins. And so we were really excited about it actually, and we were like, let's go talk to our doctor. Because our coordinator was like, your doctor kind of has to like pass it off. Like, they have to approve you that you're ready for it.

[Matt]

Gotcha.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so I had the meeting with my doctor and she was like, I don't recommend it.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

She's like, a lot of the times twins are like a higher risk pregnancy and you also have a way higher chance. It's like a 50 chance of them splitting and you get triplets or quads.

[Matt]

Holy crap.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Way more. When you put in two embryos, they can split. How does, how does that work? I didn't know.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Well, because you're taking all the medications and basically to get yourself the best chance of getting pregnant. So all those hormones are helping those Embryos. And they though the hormones also help them split.

[Matt]

Like they actually split like while they're in the womb. That's when they do that.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yep.

[Matt]

Because, oh my goodness, that's wild. I didn't realize that.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so she's like, I don't recommend it for this time. She said, let's go through this one and kind of see what we get. She's like, I'm really happy, especially since you have these high quality embryos. I do think that if you put two in that, you're likely going to get three or four.

[Matt]

So I have some friends from high school. It's funny that you're explaining this now because I'm like, oh, that actually makes a lot of sense. Some friends. It was two, two girls and two guys. They're quads. Okay. And that's, that's like, now that you're bringing this up, like, that's what happened with them. So they have an older brother that was friends with my brother. And then everybody knew the quads in school. They were just, you know, just like a little, little pack of them. And what's. What, what's funny is they ended up having even another sibling because I guess their, their parents started having, you know, struggles with, with fertility. And so they had the quads and they thought they were done. They thought they couldn't get pregnant then, and they end up with six kids.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Oh my gosh.

[Matt]

So, like, I'm. Now I'm so curious. I'm like, is this, Are your embryos gonna split? Like, what's, how would you, how would you feel if you had quads?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Oh, I mean, your life would completely change. I'd be like, you know, I mean, it would be such a blessing, but it would just. Your life would be very, very different.

[Matt]

That's scary though, where you, like, you're kind of having to like, you, you, you have to gear up for. Okay, maybe one of the embryos doesn't make it. So let's put two in so we can at least get like one baby. And then you could very well have quads.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that's the thing, like, even. Just without ivf, like, even the fertility medications that I was taking beforehand, same thing. They're like, you have a higher chance of having twins, triplets, just because your body is producing extra of the hormones that you need, and that's just how they split.

[Matt]

And you've, you've mentioned before medications like Clomid.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Clomid was the one that, that it's very possible for you to get twins or Triplets very easily with Clomid.

[Matt]

So I want to say that you've said before, like, before you did ivf, you were on Clomid. Then the other one is like, Fermaira. Fermara.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And so are you back on those? Like, what. Like, do you. Do people go on those again after implantation?

[Tori Howell Alford]

No.

[Matt]

Oh, they don't. Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So Clomid, they're both just medications to help you ovulate. So it was actually the medication that I was on when I was talking about fainting in the water, that was on Clomid.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And then after that experience, I went to Fermara. And the thing is, like, all my blood tests said, yes, you're good. You're ovulating, like you should be getting pregnant, but it just wasn't happening for us.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So those are just medications to help you ovulate, where IVF is more, like, specific to growing your embryos and being able to, like, retrieve them all at once or. Sorry, your eggs.

[Matt]

Got it. Got it. Wow. This is like.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that's the thing. It's like, I'm sitting here, I'm like, it's very complicated, and I feel like every single time I do it, I learn something new about ivf. And most of the time, you're just hanging on for dear life because there's so much information that they're giving you, and there's so many medications, and you literally have a calendar, and it tells you when to start something and when to stop something. And it has times like this. You're supposed to take this before 10am and this one you have to take at night. And, like, it's just a very complicated process, and I think you're just kind of thrown into it. And that's the thing. I'm like, I. Hopefully I'm explaining this the best way that I know how, but there's just a lot that goes into it.

[Matt]

What does the timeline look like now? Like, when. When will you guys do all of the rest of the stuff?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yes. So we got our embryos back, which is great. So now we can go and do a transfer. Now, normally with the past two transfers, I've, like, brought everyone along with that process and told them, you know, when they were, and I would film the transfer day and things like that. And I think we both kind of decided with this one, we wanted to keep it more personal and more. Not a secret, but just for right now, we're gonna keep it just to ourselves and not share that, just because I think it will be more of a personal journey, Especially with knowing this might be our last time being able to do it. Cause I think after this, I'm. I'm pretty. Like, if this one doesn't work out, I. I just need a break. This past year, it's been a lot on me and my body, and we just decided that this was kind of gonna be our last chance.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And so I just wanted to give myself, like, the time and space to process everything before going to the public about it. But I would say the transfer will probably be in the next couple of months.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's. That's a lot. That's really. That has to be stressful. Like, constantly thinking about, oh, man, I hope this works. I hope this works. Like, just. Just mulling over those details in your head, you know, even. Even. Just, like, in the. In the past, you know, week of, like. Like, my first experience of, like, going through this with my wife. It's so sad to see, like, some of the. The, like, I guess lies that, like, she almost, like, believed about, oh, is this my fault, or did I do something wrong? And just, like, I feel like that must be the biggest mind f. To have as a woman when you're, like, trying to. Trying to just have. Have a baby. Like, you're like, my body should be able to do this. This is, like.

[Tori Howell Alford]

This is, like, what I was made for.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Tori Howell Alford]

That's kind of what you think about.

[Matt]

It, and especially when you, like, like, grew up seeing all these big families. And, like, family is such a big part of Utah culture. It's such a big part of LDS culture like, that. I completely respect your decision on, like, not sharing that right away and just keeping. Keeping that for yourself, because that must be really hard to put yourself out there to open up your heart for everyone to see, right?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Like, well, even when we were in Green river, we didn't have service, which I was very grateful for at that time, because it kind of let me be able to process. Process it within that week. But, you know, then I get online afterwards, and there's, like, videos of people being like, I just can't wait until Tori announces. I can't wait. I can't wait. And then it was, like, kind of reliving it all over again, because I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have to tell them that it didn't work, you know, and that we miscarried. And that was really heavy, and I knew that that video would be very heavy. And it's kind of like, you want to give people the best news, like, you're excited to do that. And when you have bad news, again, like, it was like, they followed our first journey, and now it's our second journey. And it's like, oh, this would be the best comeback story if we got pregnant. And then again, it's like a negative. That was. That was really hard to go through. And I think having people ask you, because you find out if you're pregnant five days after the transfer, 5ish days, and then you for sure know at 10 days. So I think people are constantly like, are you pregnant? Are you pregnant? Are you pregnant? And being. Seeing those comments and knowing that you're not is. Is hard.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So I think this time that's why we made the decision, like, we're just gonna kind of do it ourselves and see what we get and have the time to process it before we have to come out to the public.

[Matt]

I'm so curious, because you, you did the first egg retrieval, you did a second egg retrieval. What do you do, like, when you have all these, all these eggs? Like, what do you. What do you do when you decide to stop having children?

[Tori Howell Alford]

So, you know what? This is something that we had just, we just talked about it. We. We never really thought about it that much because when we first got it, we had our five, and we're like, we're gonna have all five. And we, we never really had to think about what would we. What we would do if we didn't have them. And actually coming home from Utah, we kind of had to have a conversation about it because I had gotten like, you know how there's a search bar on TikTok?

[Matt]

Yes.

[Tori Howell Alford]

I had posted something with IVF and the search bar was like, why, if IVF is immoral? And I kind of. That was like the first time I ever was like, why would it be immoral?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And I posted like, a picture of the search bar on my Instagram story, and I had a bunch of people, they were super sweet. I had no one come in and attacking at all, but kind of explain why people feel like it's a little bit immoral. And because we have. We got 11 embryos. Right. And we're not. I mean, most likely we're not going to have 11 kids.

[Matt]

That's. Yeah, that's a lot of kids.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And. But yet these embryos still have life. Like, if they were put into another woman, they could have life 100%. Right. And so before you have an egg retrieval, they act. It's just big, long document. And there's like, so many Situations that you have to read through to pick what you want to do with your leftover embryos.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Either discard them, donate them. Donate them to science, things like that. And looking back, I think we both kind of agree that we wish we would have done it a little bit differently. And correct me if I'm wrong, babe, I think we. It's hard to know, right, because it's like, we got 50 eggs, but we don't know how many embryos we're gonna get from the 50 eggs. So we want the best chance possible to get as many as we can. Because last time we ended up, I was like, what if we only end up with two or with three?

[Matt]

Okay, explain that, too, because, yeah, you get 50 eggs, but not all 50 of these eggs are going to be fertilized. So does the doctor tell you which eggs are the, like, premium quality eggs?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. To then be fertilized, there's like, five different numbers. So the first is how many you retrieved, which retrieved 50. And then it's like, how many of those were matured, which is basically like, they have to be 14 millimeters or bigger in order to be fertilized. So then they give you a number for how many matured, and then they give you a number for how many were fertilized, and then they give you another number for how many, like, progressed from the fertilization.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So obviously you're trying to give yourself the best chance to have as many as you can, because we're hoping that we'd get five again, but this time we ended up with 11. And we were kind of looking back, like, man, maybe we should have only fertilized half of them. Like, because you can tell them, like, I only want this number of eggs fertilized.

[Matt]

Well, okay, I see what you're saying now, because I know there's a big. Especially in. I know in the pro life community, there's a big discussion of if certain IUDs, certain intrauterine devices are, I guess, like abortion. Because There are certain IUDs that if you get it after being intimate with someone, like, it can keep the fertilized egg from, like, implanting to the uterine wall. Yeah, correct. Am I correct about that?

[Tori Howell Alford]

It's like, after it prevents it, after it already kind of happens.

[Matt]

And so I want to say, like, medically, like, because I. I nerd out on this stuff and I. I just. I don't know, I'm weird. But, like, I, like, did this, like, deep, like, rabbit hole search and found out, like, medically Doctors don't consider it to be like a pregnancy until it's like, like implanted to the uterine wall.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But then there's people that would say, like, oh, no, that's that. Yeah, yeah, that's like a life.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Right. Which, it's true. Like, the embryos, technically, if they, they could become humans.

[Matt]

100.

[Tori Howell Alford]

But then you have to think about, well, these are our DNA as well. It's our kids. And it's like, if we have our kids out there, do we. Do, you know, do we want.

[Matt]

Yeah. Like, if you donate your, your fertilized eggs like that, you don't know if your kid ends up in some, like, not ideal situation. That's your DNA, right? Yeah. So I.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And especially with us that we're having such a hard time having kids, it's like, you know, you want to know your kids, no matter who they are or who they're raised by. It's just, it's very complicated. And it's kind of hard for us as well, because it's not like you really know what you're going to get from a retrieval. It's not like you can predict, like, okay, I only want five embryos. You can't do that, you know, so it's kind of like you want to give yourself the best chance, though. And we wanted a lot of Grade A embryos because that's what works, worked for us the first time. And so we went ahead and fertilized as many as we could. Now looking back, we're like, well, maybe we shouldn't have done that.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that's kind of something that we have to deal with together.

[Matt]

So it sounds like you still haven't figured out, like, a definitive, like, idea of what you want to do with, with the fertilized eggs.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Well, I, I look, look at it like, we don't know what's going to work and what's not. We don't know if these embr, let's say even a double A, we put it in and it still doesn't work. Will we try another? You know, will we keep trying and will we keep trying each of our embryos to see which ones work? That's kind of where we're like, we don't really know.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And that's what's hard about it. You know, you go back and forth with yourself on what you should have done or what you could have done, but at the end of the day, you're paying a lot of money. You want to give yourself the best chance to get pregnant.

[Matt]

I feel like we've talked about so much, but I do want to ask like, is there, is there anything else that I haven't asked that you like, you'd like to talk about or anything in particular?

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah, I would like to talk about a little bit with like the businesses that we opened.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Tori Howell Alford]

This year.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Tori Howell Alford]

Yeah. Because I feel like it's something that's really cool and something that's really different, especially in like the social media game 100%. So we, so I recently opened a talent management company called Rad Talent Management.

[Matt]

Very cool.

[Tori Howell Alford]

And I have been with talent management before and had a great experience with them, but definitely wanted more of like a connection, more of like a strategy working with other creators. So I opened this Rad talent agency with my husband and also my, my friend and business partner, Aubrey. And what I noticed from it was there was a lot of people that weren't necessarily established content creators, but they wanted to be one and they wanted to know how to do it and how to get brands and how to monetize. And that's when we came out with a company called Her Turn. It's a community of women who are all like minded, who want to elevate and uplift each other. You don't have to be a content creator to be in it, but there's a lot of content creation help and a lot of women who want to take content creation seriously. It's my favorite day of the week to be able to connect and talk to these women. I learn from them, they learn from me and it's just like such a special community and there's so much uplifting and positive feedback from everyone there and it's kind of like a support system. I feel like in the content creation world there's a lot of secrecy maybe like I feel like you see these content creators and you know that they're, you know, making great money but you don't know how they're doing it or how they got started in it. And that was one thing that I really wanted to kind of like expose. And I feel like we should be collaborating, not competing with one another because there's a lot of comparison in social media.

[Matt]

Totally, totally.

[Tori Howell Alford]

So if we could create something where all these women get together and they can all go and support each other doing and chasing the their dreams, then why not and why not share what I have learned in all my seven years of being able to, you know, provide for my family and monetize my own personal brand? Why not share that and help other women do the exact same thing, especially being stay at home moms.

[Matt]

Tori, thank you so much for coming on. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

[Tori Howell Alford]

No, thank you. It was so fun to be here, and I'm just so grateful.