Love is Blind, Baby #2 & Postpartum Depression w/ Zack & Bliss

Summary

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The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: Love is Blind, Baby #2 & Postpartum Depression w/ Zack & Bliss
Date: May 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt episode, Matt & Abby sit down with Zack and Bliss—known for their journey on Netflix’s Love is Blind—to discuss the realities of falling in love in the public eye, navigating relationships beyond the cameras, facing postpartum depression, parenting philosophies, and what awaits as they prepare to welcome baby #2. The conversation is both candid and humorous, highlighting the couple’s resilience, the lessons learned from their unique love story, and their shared commitment to authenticity.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Love Is Blind: How It All Began

• Casting Surprises and Serendipity

  • Bliss was scouted unexpectedly (05:00). To this day, she doesn’t know who submitted her info.
  • Zach’s entry came from his sister nominating him for The Bachelorette, and his info was shared with the Love is Blind casting team (05:35).
  • Both nearly didn’t join the show due to Covid and other life circumstances—Bliss almost missed participation after contracting Covid but recovered just in time (09:23).
  • “There were so many miracles along the way… I just think God is telling me something here.” – Zach (08:55)

• Forming Connections in the Pods

  • Deep, extended conversations—sometimes 80+ hours over two weeks—fuel intense connections (92:12).
  • Vulnerability and honesty are not just encouraged but necessary for the process to work:

    “Vulnerability is the key to connection. If you’re looking for love, you can’t get there without being vulnerable.” – Zach (22:25)

• Redemption Arc and Honesty

  • Zack famously proposed to another woman before realizing his true feelings for Bliss. They broke up, only to reunite and eventually marry:

    “If there was any karmic justice for him dumping me on TV, then he got it at the honeymoon and then there we go, we're good.” – Bliss (15:58)

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2. Life After the Show: Building a Real Marriage

• Private Adjustment Period

  • The year between filming and airing allowed Zack & Bliss to talk through every detail (14:40).
  • Open communication helped them heal, process wounds, and build strong trust.

• Blending Families and Addressing Fears

  • Zack struggled with Bliss having pets due to severe allergies, a tension that nearly ended things (16:12-17:29).
  • Both discuss the importance of owning shortcomings, learning from the process, and not romanticizing reality TV love stories.
  • “You start out dating 15 people… It’s kind of hard to understand how you can fall in love with multiple people that quickly.” – Zach (19:01)

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3. Parenting, Trauma, and Family

• Breaking Cycles and Being Intentional

  • Zack shares candidly about growing up witnessing domestic violence and discusses the importance of modeling healthy, loving relationships for their daughter (32:00-34:23).

    "The use of violence in conflict is a coward's method. If you have to use violence or aggression to solve a conflict... you are either not intelligent enough to use your words or strong enough to walk away." – Zach (33:47)

  • Bliss adds that Zack’s childhood makes him a highly intentional parent, focused on creating a safe, nurturing environment (34:23).

• Unique Challenges

  • Funny and relatable parenting moments, like their 2-year-old swearing (“What the duck?”) highlight the chaos and joy of raising toddlers (30:09-31:26).

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4. Postpartum Depression and Maternal Mental Health

• The Darkness of Postpartum

  • Bliss recounts a difficult first labor and severe postpartum depression:

    "Holding my daughter, thinking about how her life would be if she didn’t have me…she saved me throughout that process." – Bliss (02:06, 52:07)

  • She discusses the importance of support, self-care, professional help, and medication when needed (53:14).

  • Openly expresses apprehensions about experiencing it again with baby #2 (46:01-51:50).

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5. Breastfeeding, Body Image, and Social Pressures

• Struggles and Expectations

  • Both couples reflect on the difficulties of breastfeeding despite its ‘natural’ label, the lack of generational guidance, and societal discomforts with public nursing (55:11-56:37).
  • Honest dialogue about body changes, the “blessing” and the challenge of accepting a postpartum body, especially with eyes watching on social media (58:05-61:25).

    “I'm trying to be a good example for her now. I don’t want her to ever feel that way.” – Bliss (60:14)

• Online Authenticity

  • The couple prioritizes realness over polished images online, choosing to share vulnerably only when ready (61:25-63:12).
  • On healthy conflict:

    “If you’re not having some conflicts, then one party is not communicating.” – Zach (63:12)

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6. Audience Q&A & Fun Facts

• Naming Their Daughter
  • Their daughter’s name, Galileo, was inspired by a love for alliteration and admiration for the historical figure—chosen before pregnancy (70:06-71:26).
• Engagement Timeline
  • Shortest in Love is Blind history: they reunited and were engaged after just four days; engaged-to-married in about 15 days (77:09-77:28).
• Would They Recommend Love is Blind?
  • Yes, but only for those genuinely seeking marriage; not for fame or clout (86:35-87:19).
• Would They Have Gotten Together Without the Show?
  • Both think possibly, but the show’s format forced a deeper, quicker intimacy (90:19-91:21).
• Behind-the-Scenes Details
  • Contestants don’t live in the pods ("We actually have our own rooms in a hotel," 96:04), and producers often cut off conversations to increase longing and drama (84:25).

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7. Is Love Truly Blind?

• The Big Question

  • Zack, the lawyer, gives a nuanced answer referencing Greek words for love:

    "Vulnerability is the key to connection… Would you love a person in a different body? I think love can be blind." – Zach (22:25, 98:31-101:12)

  • Bliss adds that even in the pods, their physical chemistry was undeniable though unseen (101:49).

  • The hosts and Zack & Bliss agree: love is a choice, deeply rooted in commitment and connection, not just initial attraction.

    “There was a sexual connection, a physical chemistry… even though I couldn’t see him.” – Bliss (101:49)
    "I think ultimately I believe that love is a choice, and so therefore it can be blind." – Abby (104:05)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Regret and Growth:

  "When we broke up, I knew immediately I had [messed] up." – Zach (29:59)

• On Social Media Influence:

  "It's hard, especially at our ages, to put up a facade or a front… I just don't have any energy for that." – Bliss (61:25)

• On Parenting Goals:

  “The best way I can help her become that person is to become that person myself.” – Zach (35:57)

• On the Reality TV Experience:

  “It’s becoming harder and harder to get people to go on these shows because… it’s become a ritual to shame the people who are being shown for their very worst moment.” – Zach (92:51)

• On Love’s Depth:

  “When we're 90 years old, wrinkly maybe or whatever, and we're laying in bed together, the lights are off, we're not physically seeing each other, but we're still each other. We're still connecting with who we are.” – Bliss (104:59)

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Key Timestamps

• Shortest Engagement in Love is Blind: 01:18, 77:09
• On Reality TV & Vulnerability: 10:38, 22:25
• Zach’s Childhood & Parenting Values: 32:00-35:57
• Bliss on Postpartum Depression: 02:06, 52:07
• On Breastfeeding & Body Image: 55:11, 58:05
• Love Is Blind Q&A: 70:00+
• Is Love Blind?: 98:31-104:05

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Closing

The episode masterfully balances humor, emotion, and insight, giving listeners a rare, honest glimpse into love found in unusual circumstances—and all the complex, “unplanned” turns that follow. Zack & Bliss’s openness about mental health, the pressure of social media, and the messy beauty of parenting makes this episode a valuable listen for anyone seeking truth over perfection in modern relationships.

Most active on: [Instagram]
Zack & Bliss’s podcast: (May be revived!) "Blind Love"

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Abby]

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[Matt]

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[Abby]

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[Bliss]

We have the shortest engagement in Love is Blind history.

[Matt]

No way.

[Zach]

I think we met on a Tuesday and I proposed on a Friday.

[Matt]

Zach and Bliss are best known from Netflix's Love is Blind, a social experiment where singles date, fall in love and get engaged without ever seeing each other.

[Zach]

I was really acting from a place of fear. I had this deep connection with someone I still had never met and there were real obstacles that we were going to have to confront.

[Matt]

After forming a deep connection with Bliss in the pods, Zach proposed to another woman first. Only to realize that he made the wrong choice.

[Bliss]

If there was any karmic justice for him dumping me on tv, then he got it at the honeymoon and then there we go. We're good. When I gave birth, it was like deep dark depression. Holding my daughter, thinking about how her life would be if she didn't have me. Like I truly say that. Like she saved me throughout that process.

[Matt]

Now married with a beautiful two year old daughter and another Baby on the way. Zach and Bliss join us to talk about heartbreak, postpartum depression, and what really happens when the cameras stop rolling

[Zach]

with our story. I really felt like they did a great job of telling it, and I was. I was, quite frankly, really shocked because we, you know, we don't get to see it until it airs.

[Bliss]

Yeah, we see it with the rest of the world.

[Zach]

And.

[Bliss]

So scary.

[Zach]

I did not think they would show so much of my experience, because you have to remember there's, like, five, six different couples. We had six.

[Bliss]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Six different couples. And so I'm thinking, like, you're just gonna see. And honestly, you barely. You only get to see a small amount.

[Bliss]

But.

[Zach]

But so much of my story and her story really got shown, and I thought they did a really good job of telling it as well as they could with the short amount of time they had.

[Matt]

When you meet somebody new and they asked the classic question, how did you meet? How do you describe how you met people?

[Bliss]

Yeah, it's weird. We just will be like, oh, yeah, we met. We used to say before we were allowed to talk about it.

[Abby]

Oh, because there was a period of time where you. Like, over a year, right?

[Bliss]

Yeah, it was, like, around a year. And some people have to wait, like, a year and a half. Luckily, we only had to wait a year. Yeah, a year and a half's a long time. It's like you were at a wedding, and his friends asking him, like. Or some random person you knew from college was like, oh, how'd you guys meet? He was like, in an experiment. And he was like, ha. But, like, no, like, how did you actually meet? He's like, yeah, in. In an experiment. Because Love Is Mine is technically an experiment. That's kind of how they want you to, like, think about it when you're watching it, too. It's like a social experiment. And it was. The guy thought you were, like, totally being, like, a jerk and, like, not answering the question. Now we actually just kind of say, like, oh, yeah, like, we got married. You know, On Love is Blind, people are like, what? Like, that's real. And we. I always think about how, like, our children are going to have, like, the most interesting, crazy story to, like, tell about how we met.

[Abby]

Seriously, how does that even come about? Like, you end up on a reality dating experiment show. Like, how does that come about?

[Bliss]

For me, I got a voicemail, and, like, I'm the type of person who has probably, like, 45, like, unlistened to voicemails. Like, I never listen to my voicemails. My phone's always on do not disturb, But I, like, randomly listen to the voicemail, and they're like, oh, we're doing, like, a documentary in Seattle. And I was like, oh, whatever. Like, a documentary. Okay. And, you know, there's so many scams and things out there, so, like, what do I know? But I randomly called it back and like, oh, have you heard of Love is blind? And I was like, oh, yeah, I have. They're like, oh, well. We're, like, casting. Like, where'd you get my information?

[Abby]

Yes.

[Bliss]

Like, who submitted me for this? And it's still a mystery to this day. I have no idea.

[Abby]

They scouted you?

[Matt]

You're kidding.

[Bliss]

Like, I literally don't know.

[Matt]

You don't have any guesses? Like, there's no family, friends?

[Bliss]

I asked them. I'm like, who submitted me? You know? And they were like, oh, well, we can't say. I'm like, what do you mean you can't say? This is about me. This is, like, my information. You know, they're like, oh, well, like, some people get it from, like, hair salons. I'm like, hair salon. So I, like, asked my hairstyles. I'm like, did you submit me, though? She was like, no. So I. I still don't know. Isn't that weird? I know. And I asked my family and my friends, and they're like, no. And I'm like, okay. They couldn't have just, like, got phone number, like, randomly? Like, someone had to give it to them. So it's still a mystery.

[Abby]

You would think they'd want to fess up right now. It's been a success story. They want to take credit.

[Bliss]

Exactly. Maybe I need to re. Ask everyone now, but it's been, like, four.

[Abby]

It went well. Okay.

[Zach]

You were so close to not going on the show. Both of us. Both of us. It's actually pretty wild what happened. For me, it was my sister that had nominated me for the Bachelorette.

[Matt]

Really?

[Zach]

Yeah. And so they had gotten the information through that, I guess they kind of share information. I don't know. The Bachelor had passed,

[Bliss]

but apparently Love

[Zach]

is blind was interested. And I didn't know what Love is blind was. I had no idea. It just came out during COVID and that is right around when they reached out to me. So apparently it had become this big thing, and I didn't know. Had never watched reality tv. And they called me, and I was at a point in my life where things were going well with my career, and I really was just trying to find my person I knew I wanted to have a wife. I knew I wanted to have a family. And that was really my top priority at that point. So I thought, well, I was either gonna move to Austin, Texas or I was gonna move to Seattle because I was in central Washington. And the dating, the dating was pretty rough. You know, people say dating in Seattle is rough, but you tried dating in Wenanchee, Washington.

[Abby]

Say that one more time. That sounds cute.

[Matt]

It is actually really beautiful.

[Zach]

I think it's like 40,000.

[Matt]

Wait, that's like Abby, small town. She's from Quincy, Illinois.

[Zach]

Oh, okay. Yeah, there's actually a town called Quincy that's like in Washington.

[Bliss]

Yeah, it's really near, but it's beautiful.

[Abby]

I automatically like it.

[Zach]

But yeah. So the people who reached out to me didn't know that I lived in central Washington. They thought I was in Seattle. So they're like, so is Wenanchee pretty close to Seattle? And I was like, well, it's like a two hour drive if that's close.

[Abby]

Oh, Midwesterners. That's close. That is right around the corner.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So I didn't hear from them for like three months. And then apparently it's actually such a long process.

[Bliss]

You go like months without hearing anything from them in like the casting process.

[Zach]

But I really, like, genuinely thought that they were just like, oh, this dude's not in Seattle. Then. But then ran, I was in Austin, Texas, looking at the city to see if like, hey, this is where I want to move. And then I got a phone call and it was from the. One of the producers who had interviewed me. And they were like, hey, I really think that you are a good fit for this. We'd love to, you know, move you along further. And I was like, oh, okay. I thought you guys kind of passed.

[Bliss]

It's so funny because, like, he's so like, I feel like his family and friends would be like, Zach is the person that would go on reality TV like 100. He's not shy, he doesn't get embarrassed about anything. And I'm like the total opposite. My family was like, shocked that I was like willing to like, go on this. And I had just, I had gotten out of relationship and I was like, I was kind of like the why not? Mentality. Like, what could happen? Like, sure, just go have this experience. Like, nothing's probably going to come for him from it. Like, whatever. A lot of people don't even get shown on it. So I was like, oh, whatever. And it's funny because this is where we've ended up. For it, But I'm like, the op, which is. We're very polar opposite in that. Like, I'm more. I don't like attention as much, and it's just, like, really funny that I ended up doing it. And here we are.

[Zach]

There were so many miracles along the way that, like, that. I mean, I reached a point, and this is kind of skipping ahead where I was just like, I think. I think God is telling me something here. I think that there's. There's a message, and I'm not going to ignore it. That that's what really gave me the. The faith to kind of take that leap. One of the things that really gave me the faith, But I didn't know about this until after we got married. But you want to tell them what happened?

[Bliss]

So, like, it was still when they were testing everyone for Covid, if they were going on production in any way. Okay. And I, like, had not had covered that whole time that I got Covid, like, two weeks before I was supposed to leave for the trip, and they come into your house and, like, test you, and if you test positive, like, that's it. Like, you're done. And so, like, had, like, eight or nine days to, like, get rid of the COVID and test negative for it. So I. It was, like, crazy, because sometimes you test positive for a long time, and somehow I tested negative. I, like, drank so much water and, like, I don't know, it was, like. It was kind of, like, a lot of odds stacked against us actually going. But, yeah, everything was so serendipitous.

[Zach]

The day. The day before they were set to fly out, she had. She had Covid all the way, like, tested positive all the way until, like,

[Bliss]

the day they tested me the very last day. Lucky.

[Zach]

Wow. Otherwise, she wouldn't even been there, and we never would have met.

[Bliss]

Never.

[Matt]

That's crazy.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Zach, you had quite the redemption arc on the show. I don't know if you guys watched it or if you were like, oh, I don't want to watch it, because it's, like, scary to relive all of that. Did you ever watch your season all the way through?

[Zach]

Oh, we did. Yeah.

[Matt]

Did you watch it together?

[Bliss]

Yeah, we, like, stayed up till midnight until it was released and, like, watched it. I think we wanted to, like, be aware, you know? And it's also, like, so cool to, like, see our story and all the ups and downs and everything in between. It was. It was pretty funny for me, but I think for you, if you were to be embarrassed, maybe that's the time you were. I don't know, you never get embarrassed,

[Zach]

but there were quite a few moments that I was embarrassed. I'm just thankful not all of it made the

[Matt]

cut. What did it, what did it make the cut that you're like, oh, I'm glad that stayed off?

[Zach]

Well, you only see me sing once.

[Matt]

You sang multiple times.

[Zach]

Oh, I sang to Bliss the entire time we were in the pause. I serenaded her like every day.

[Bliss]

You know, we couldn't have music and so I was like, what am I going to do without music this whole time? And I made a joke to my family that they're just gonna make the guys sing to me in the pods. And he definitely delivered on that.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah. I was actually told, and this is my thought, because it was copyrighted music, right? That it wasn't going to make the cut. Right? Because they're like, oh, yeah, you know, if you're gonna play any music or sing anything, you know, just don't make it copyrighted. So I thought, okay, you know, it's not gonna be in there. And I, I remember talking with someone about it and they had told me that there. That me singing was not going to end up on the cut.

[Bliss]

Maybe they were trying to just like make you not scared or like when

[Zach]

we watched Let It Rip. That moment literally. Oh my. I was just like, no, no, no. I mean, yeah, I knew there was a chance that was going to get in there, but yeah, that was, that was embarrassing moment.

[Matt]

Would you be willing to serenade us right now?

[Bliss]

Oh, I feel like his gotten better cuz he sings with our daughter all the time.

[Matt]

Wait, that's so sweet. What do you sing to your daughter?

[Zach]

Hey Jude.

[Matt]

Hey Jude.

[Zach]

Sing hey Jude to her.

[Matt]

Is there like a certain, like a, like a, a way you sing it to her? That's like specific. I like it like in a lullaby form, you know?

[Zach]

No, I just like she actually, she has, she has memorized about 50 songs and I picked this up. It was, it was wild. I. I remember now she's kind of gotten more into improving. It used to be she would just sing them exactly how they are, but now she'll change characters and she has fun like playing around with the songs. But at around eight months, I. I noticed that she was repeating the last word of every sentence when I would sing her songs to bed.

[Abby]

And.

[Zach]

And then I started to pause and I realized she wasn't just mimicking me, she had memorized the words. And then I started to like pause longer and then fill it in and she will be able to do, like, every other word. She can sing music by Zach Bryant. She can sing the Beatle. The Beatle. Hey Jude is her favorite. For some reason, she loves hey Jude right now.

[Bliss]

The ABCs are also the ABCs. She'll say, Er X. I can't correct her. You know, you don't want to correct these cute little things that they do because you want it to last forever. So sweet.

[Zach]

She sings hey, dude, she'll say.

[Bliss]

She'll say, dude, when skies are great, not gray when she sings My Sunshine,

[Zach]

it's literally the best.

[Abby]

How old is she now?

[Bliss]

She just turned 2. Oh, yeah. She's wild and crazy, but so fun. They're like, your second one's more. Going to be more wild. I'm like, really? Everyone, you know, we're in for it. If that's the case.

[Matt]

What was it like? There's probably not many people in the world that, like, watch footage of them on a honeymoon with somebody else on, like, Netflix, you know, it's like, watching that. How did you, like, talk through that? I'm guessing probably some, like, frustration probably came up.

[Bliss]

Yeah. Watching that back, you know, honestly, that's why I'm really grateful for that time period we had in between getting married and then an airing. Like, we were able to talk through literally everything. Like, he told me everything that happened. I told him everything that happened. I really feel like we were able to work through that, like, really well beforehand. I know there's other franchises where they, like, will have a really quick turnaround. I think, like, the Bachelor has a really quick turnaround, and I'm like, in a way that's good, but a way not, because you don't able. You're not able to settle into your marriage and settle into things, like, work things out, you know, which I'm, again, really grateful for. You're not in the spotlight during that time. No one knows. So I think, you know, one thing about Zach. He's a really honest person, and I really trusted him, which is why I was, like, felt confident enough to say yes at the altar. Even after everything we went through.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

And so I just. I knew I. You know, it wasn't. There was no really surprises. I mean, obviously, like, seeing it visually is a different thing, but I wasn't, like, surprised by anything because he was so honest. And honestly, like, it was such, like, a. It was just so cringy. Like, the way he was treated was so terrible that it was just so, like, hard to watch from, like, a person that I love. Like, Being treated that way rather than like a place of, like, anger, you know?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Or like jealousy.

[Bliss]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really, I don't know. And it's honestly like, if there's any karmic justice for him dumping me on tv, then he got it at the honeymoon and then there we go, we're good.

[Zach]

Well, you know, that was honestly, I felt like Jonah and the whale when I was in Mexico, because when we were in the pods, I, I, there were so many signs that Bliss was the person that I was supposed to be with. And maybe it wasn't clear to me in that moment, like, that I should take that, that leap, but I, I was really acting from a place of fear. And I had, I. And some of this, I think maybe was subconscious and some of it was conscious. But with Bliss, I was very afraid that we wouldn't work out. I had this deep connection with someone I still had never met in person. And there were things that we had discussed, some of which you don't see, that were real obstacles that we were going to have to confront. One that doesn't really get explored deeply was that I have allergy induced asthma to animals and she has had a dog and a cat. Now we have two dogs and a cat. But I mean, it was bad. It was really bad. And I didn't know if we were.

[Bliss]

And they're like my babies at that point, you know, Like, I was like, these are my children. And oh my gosh, like, what the heck is happening here?

[Zach]

And when I told her about that, the response was not.

[Bliss]

I was like, why is this happening to me? I was like, we'll get through it. I was like. And like, honestly, if it had come out earlier in our dates, because you date for like nine or ten days, which seems so short, but it's so weird when you're in it. It feels so different. But I might have not even, like, continued on dating him, you know, because, like, those are my babies.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And yeah, so there were things from my past that were kind of bringing fears up. And then I didn't really think that I was going to be accepted by her family based on what she had told me about her family and my own experiences. I'd made some preconceptions about what you have to though, you know, like you're talking to someone through a wall and, and, and I think the, the level of connection that we had, I was, I was really afraid that I was going to break her heart and that she was going to break my heart and that I Didn't know how long that it would take to get over that. And a lot of people don't understand that. Everybody's dating everybody. Right. Like, and I think when the. When Love is Blind first came out, people thought like, oh, this person's a player. And they're like. Because you just see it for the first time, and you're like, why is

[Bliss]

this person dating three people? Certain dates, they can't show everything.

[Matt]

Got it. Got it.

[Zach]

You start out dating 15 people. I mean, maybe that's a prerequisite for anyone who hasn't watched the show. Yeah. You start out dating 15 people. On the first day, you cut that in half, and then progressively as it goes along for about 14 days, you cut it down and down and down until you're about. You're either down to two people or three people. And then you can go all the way till the very end dating that many people. And now it's been around long enough. People kind of understand, but it's kind of hard to understand how you can fall in love with multiple people that quickly or even fall in love with anyone that quickly. And the reality is, it's like the people who've made that show, they are experts in. In love and. And connection and psychology, and they. If you. If you follow the process the way it's designed, they've already handpicked people who are compatible and likely more than more people than are, you know, hopefully. Right. Because love triangles are good television. Right.

[Matt]

Oh, gosh.

[Zach]

And so you're. You're. You're facilitating an environment.

[Bliss]

They say it's like two to three. Like, you're compatible, super compatible with, like, two to three people. Because you answer, like, so many questions, like a ridiculous amount of questions and personality tests and all of these things as the process of getting casted.

[Zach]

Yeah. And then you're being vulnerable about things that are very intimate, that you've probably never shared with anyone. Or if you're doing the process the way it's intended, or very few people, you're having really, really intimate, vulnerable conversations. And in fact, when I realized that, I almost left on the first day because, I don't know, I hadn't really contemplated it. Like, yes, I was looking for my wife, but I didn't think about having to open up about my vulnerabilities, about my fears in front of the entire world. You know, things like losing my mother. I mean, I had had friends, close friends that I had never talked to. You know, we. We about that. And we'd been friends for five Years never came up. The show really helped me actually become a lot more vulnerable as a person and changed me in that way. But going in, I. I was like, okay, if. If you want to find your person, you have to be vulnerable here. This is you. You've got to do it. And I decided that I was going to do that. Sorry, that kind of got a little bit of it.

[Matt]

No, you're good. I'm glad you brought up vulnerability because I noticed watching you on the show and seeing you talk about that and talk about your mom and talk about like, even, even just like the silly jokes you made when you, when you like, opened up by saying, yeah, I'm a stripper, like, just to kind of like, see how. How people would react. Like, I guess my question for you is, do you think embracing that vulnerability was the right. Like, are you glad that you did that? Because you can't really ever take any of that back. You've opened yourself up in a really big way to so many people. And like you said before, you weren't even telling your own friends about these deep things. So how has being vulnerable changed you as a man and as a person?

[Zach]

Yeah, I think about it a lot. Vulnerability is, is the key to connection. And if you're looking for love, you. You can't get there without being vulnerable because you have to show your true self.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And until you've shown your true self, you're never going to have real love. And that means showing your fears, showing the things that you feel inadequate about. Those are the things that really connect people. And so, like, I don't have any regrets about, about opening up and being vulnerable. And I think, like, we need more vulnerability in the world. And I think that's really real strength. You know, when you meet someone who's able to show you their weaknesses, that's someone who's strong.

[Matt]

That's good.

[Bliss]

It's so interesting because, like, as someone who knows you just kind of post or during the experience and like post it. Like, I think you're. You're very quick to be vulnerable with people now. I feel like it's not something you really struggle with anymore. And I think your family, like his family had never met a girlfriend before. Like, it was a totally, I think like a total 180 that they saw from you, at least from going from someone who was kind of more closed off to things to someone who was like, very open very quickly with people.

[Zach]

I was very private about my dating life. Yeah. Like, did not talk to any family about it unless it was someone who was very serious.

[Abby]

Thank you to Kiwico for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. You guys, summer is fast approaching. In fact, we're already here and we

[Matt]

need to find activities and ways to keep our boys entertained while still learning things that don't involve screens. That's what we're huge fans of. Kiwico. If you haven't heard of Kiwico before, it's learning toys for kids delivered right to your doorstep.

[Abby]

We have actually started using Kiwico when we first had our first child. So we have been using their products for years. They also are great at encouraging kids to get outside and explore. And with the summer adventure series, kids receive six hands on project kits with enriching and fun activities.

[Matt]

Kiwico crates offer a range of topics for each age with some summer adventure kits featuring playing with bubbles, exploring the stars or building things.

[Abby]

I remember the first Kiwico crate we ever got was those color contrasting cards, those black and white contrast cards. And now we have gone through so many different stages where now we're actually using like a lighted board with shapes and getting into building and like little kids physics. It's really, really neat to see their learning bloom through Kiwico.

[Matt]

Build the best summer ever with KiwiCo. Get $10 off on your Summer Adventure Series at kiwico.com summer promo code UNPLANNED. That's $10 off your Summer Adventure at k I w I c o.com summer promo code UNPLANCED. Yeah, see for me like sometimes I have foot and mouth syndrome where I just like, I just start talking and I'm like why the frick I have that. But, but I think you're right though. I do think vulnerability is stre. Think I think that's the only true. That's how you make the realist connection is through that vulnerability. The other factor though here is having an entire audience watching you date and get engaged and get married and then, or actually I'm sorry, I got ahead of myself. Date, get engaged, call off the engagement, then get engaged again, get married and, and there was an article that came out recently which kind of, kind of shocked me just like a couple days ago. Apparently there have been eight divorces I guess from the Love is Blind franchise. And you guys are one of the, one of the few couples that it worked and you have baby number two on the way. So many good things are happening. I wanted to ask, why do you think so many divorces have happened from the Love is Blind franchise?

[Bliss]

It's my My perspective. I'll let you share yours first. You know, I feel like divorce and, like, relationships ending happens, like, even in the real world, outside of television and outside of experiences, experiments like this, I think. Is it still 50 50? I'm not sure if it's still 50 50, but if it is, I mean, that's kind of somewhat of a reflection of what you see just through love is blind. Obviously. When you get mar so quickly, it's difficult to cover everything. It's difficult to cover exactly how you plan to raise children. You might have really big differences there that could potentially cause, you know, a marriage to end. There's just. It's just so much so quick. And I also think that the pressure of being in the public eye can definitely add to that.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

Like, I kind of spoke earlier about how you have that time period in between of creating, like, a really strong foundation and sometimes that, you know, maybe that doesn't happen all the way. Like, obviously we don't have, like, complete, deep insights into why everyone got divorced and what exactly happened there. But my kind of take on it is there. When you watch people fall in love, it's, like, very romanticized, and there's these really high expectations of, oh, my gosh, this is going to last forever. This is, like, my favorite couple. This is going to all. You know, it's going to be forever and ever. And in reality, like, they're still human and there's still that kind of, like, 50, 50 chance maybe of it ending in divorce. That's kind of my take on it.

[Matt]

Can I give you my take on why I think you guys have worked out?

[Bliss]

Tell me.

[Matt]

So we. So actually some friends.

[Abby]

Wow.

[Bliss]

I want to hear it. No, I'm so interested.

[Matt]

This is just my, like, outside opinion, but I'm also interested. Okay. So we actually. We're friends with Lauren and Ari from the Bachelor franchise.

[Bliss]

Yeah, they live here. That's right.

[Matt]

And, yeah. And so, like, they're. They're awesome. They're. They're such a sweet couple. And what's funny, we've watched their season, too. We watched their season after. We, like, were friends with them, so it was, like, a really weird.

[Abby]

Yeah, it was one of those. Let's never admit this. And then we admitted it was like, I had to tell you something because

[Matt]

I have put mouse in him. Like, I can't help myself. So I tell. I tell them that. And it was weird because, yeah, we, like, saw Ari kiss, like, other women on the show anyway. But, like, I think. And same thing with the Bachelor Franchise. There's been so many couples that didn't work out, but I think why they worked out was because they kind of broke the script of the show, like,

[Bliss]

very similar to our story.

[Matt]

He ended up choosing the girl that he turned down. And that's exactly what you did.

[Abby]

You kind of broke the spell of like, the reality TV experiment thing totally and so. And made a choice yourself.

[Matt]

Exactly. So you guys chose, like, you chose completely on your own outside of the reality TV side of it, because you didn't really do the. The stereotypical cookie cutter method how it was supposed to be. I think that's why it's working so well.

[Bliss]

Honestly, like, we've talked about that and like, I think even maybe Zach says, for instance, I don't want to speak for you, babe, but, like, he feels like he had to go through that in order to actually be ready to say yes at the altar. Like, he had to, like, lose me. He had to, like, go through that experience of, like, this is what my world would be like without her. Like, I actually really want to be with her.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

And we went through something really real, you know, like that. You're right. Doesn't happen in those worlds. You're like in a. Literally a whirlwind romance. Like, if you didn't break up, who know, you're in limerence. There's like, the oxytocin is going crazy. Like, you're literally like, high on love and you get married in that state rather than like going through trials and like, tribulations and things. And we actually went through something really serious. Like, we broke up. Like, he broke my heart, you know, and then, yeah, we got back. So honestly, I think that's a great theory. I really do.

[Zach]

Yeah. I'll tell you when. When we broke up, I knew immediately I had up. I knew I had made a mistake.

[Bliss]

He's working on saying the F word around my car. She was like, I want some water. The other day I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Matt]

Your 2 year old said the F word?

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bliss]

Like she said on the plane, like, really loud.

[Zach]

She's really good. She's really good with her words.

[Abby]

She just turned two.

[Bliss]

Yeah, yeah. And she'll just say everything.

[Zach]

It's not going away. I've tried to extinguish it. I'll be like, what the duck? What the duck? And she goes, what the.

[Bliss]

And I'm like, she does it with intonations. Like, what the.

[Abby]

We're like, oh, you're like, beautiful.

[Matt]

That's hilarious.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's hilarious.

[Matt]

No, I think that's. That's funny, actually.

[Abby]

Oh, my gosh.

[Zach]

Yeah, it is our kid.

[Matt]

What. What is Griffin been saying?

[Abby]

No, he just said it one time. He said freaking. He said, and I'm so. I'm such a preschool teacher. I'm like, I don't like the way that sounds. Oh, he said. He said something about it. He's like, that was freaking awesome.

[Matt]

Abby's a better person than me. I do say freaking awesome.

[Abby]

And it's like, I say that too, but I don't know, just their little kid voice. I was like, you're a baby voice.

[Bliss]

It's wrong. They're little innocent baby voices. So we're trying to correct that.

[Abby]

She's like, I just have to add that.

[Bliss]

Just add it in there.

[Zach]

It's like, you know, that's how I grew up as a kid, and it's ingrained into me, so it's not going anywhere.

[Bliss]

Wait, no, I thought we were working on it.

[Zach]

I'm working on it. Working on it. I actually remember as a kid, you know, this is kind of dark, but, like, my. My mom and my stepdad arguing, and my cousin and I, we were in Las Vegas, actually, and we counted how many times they said the F word, and we're like, 89, 186. Yeah, just counting it down.

[Matt]

That's awful.

[Zach]

Yeah. But so after.

[Matt]

After that, did that F you up, like, growing up with hearing your mom and your stepdad argue all the time on top of everything else?

[Zach]

I saw a lot of messed up stuff as a kid. I mean, I like a lot of domestic violence. A lot of, you know, like, having to call the cops to make sure, like, my mom or, you know, whoever she was with didn't end up injured or, you know, like. Yeah, yeah, I saw a lot of stuff. But anyways, sorry to hear that. Yeah, it's okay.

[Abby]

I guess. How does that affect you now and the role as, like, a parent, like, figure? Like, what, now that you're in charge, like, of your household and how, like, you guys interact and how you model a family unit for your daughter and your soon to be son? Like, how does that. How does that influenced you?

[Zach]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that it's really on the positive side. It's really important that we model how to show love in front of our daughter. And we're very intentional about that. Her face lights up when she sees me kiss Bliss. Like, it is just the biggest cheesy grin. So I'll just come into the kitchen and Just give Bliss all these kisses and my daughter's just like. And then we'll go give her kisses. But modeling love, you know, like, the obvious is like, no domestic violence. We don't have any issues with that. I also think the use of violence in conflict is a cowards method. If you have to use violence or aggression to solve a conflict, it's because you are either not intelligent enough to use your words or strong enough to walk away. Like, I just, I. I don't think there's any excuse.

[Bliss]

I think it's made you really intentional too, as a parent. Like, you're really like, from what? Just like observing you with her. Like, you're very intentional. Like you said about showing love and like, making sure that she feels safe. And so like, I. We have very different childhood experiences. Like, my parents had a pretty intense divorce, which impacted me pretty heavily, but I did not witness even a millionth of the things that you did. And I feel like you're a little bit more aware, you know, about, like, and purposeful in a lot of ways than I am in cultivating, like, a really positive, safe environment for her.

[Zach]

She definitely knows that she's loved and she's surrounded with so much love. And that's truthfully the thing that I. The thing that only thing I think that matters. And I think there's so much guilt that parents deal with about, you know, not being able to. I know my mother did. Not being able to provide me with the things that she thought that I needed or, you know, me experiencing the things that I did. But I remember telling her at one point, like, mom, I'm okay. Like, it worked out and yeah, you weren't able to do everything perfectly. But like, I felt loved, you know, and your love was. Was all I really needed. And I just think, like, that's what makes the world's best parent. And it's not a comparison. It's not like, oh, this parent's better than that. If you love your kids with all your heart, like you're the world's best parent, because it's going to drive you, right? Like, if you truly love your kids, like, it's gonna drive you to become a better person and to do the best you can to provide for them, to sacrifice for them. And I know it does me. And I also. The other thing that I've realized as a parent is that what I want for my daughter, like, I think about the person I want her to be, and the best way that I can help her become that person is to become that person myself.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Matt]

From snapping for that.

[Abby]

Yeah. That's awesome. That's good stuff. I know that from, like, learning about your story. That a lot of your childhood and some of the challenges you went through with your mom is what motivated your career choice later in life. Like, are you still a practicing lawyer?

[Zach]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt]

No way.

[Zach]

Yeah. I do personal injury litigation now.

[Abby]

Okay. So. But you. That motivated criminal defense, right? Was what, like, kind of motivated by your childhood?

[Zach]

I think. I think there was always something about me that gravitated towards criminal defense. Like, in the fifth grade, I remember arguing with my teacher. I believe her name was Miss Jameson. And there was. Sorry, Miss Jameson. She had told this boy that he was gonna get. He was gonna lose his recess unless he gave this girl Lacey back. Her. Her glasses. Like, her reading glasses. And he's like, I didn't take her reading glasses. And I remember arguing with the teacher. Like, what evidence do you have? I literally got up and argued with the teacher. What evidence do you have that he took the glasses? And she said, well, he's done it before. And I got like, I almost lost my recess because I was sitting there. I was like, what do you mean, because he's done it before? That's not evidence. That doesn't establish that he's the. How do you know she didn't.

[Abby]

Purely circumstantial.

[Zach]

How do you know that she didn't lose her glasses? Right. And ultimately, she did lose her glasses, and they got his recess back. And Ms. Jameson apologized to me.

[Abby]

That's good of her.

[Zach]

But. But it's. I mean, my personality has always gravitated towards that justice. I believe. Yeah. I believe in due process, and if we as a society are gonna take away the life or liberty of others, that we had better be sure, beyond any reasonable doubt, that they actually did what they're accused of doing. Because if we're not really sure or we make a mistake, then the people who make the decision to take that life and liberty are just as bad. Right. Like, you've put someone in a cage for a year of their life, their entire life, one day of their life. So I. I think that burden really weighed on me for a long time, and I was very thankful. While I was doing criminal defense, I was able to help a lot of people.

[Abby]

Yeah. That's just a side thing that really interests me ever since.

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, because Abby's mom was actually going to school. She. Your mom went to college to go into criminal justice, right?

[Abby]

Yeah, she. She was a criminal justice major. But honestly, what really Sparked it for me. Was reading Just Mercy.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Abby]

Like, did you ever read that?

[Matt]

I was telling you guys, that's the book. Abby read to me, the entirety of the book in the car.

[Abby]

To read this book, I need to read it. But it got me just so interested in. I mean, that he is a criminal defense lawyer. He started a foundation, too, but the Equal Justice Initiative, if you've heard of eji.

[Bliss]

But.

[Abby]

But anyway, that. And I. Obviously, you know so much more about that area, but that is an area that, like, I feel very interested in. So I think it's really cool that you, like, you chose that area of law and the realm of law. Like, what is, like, the. I. I'm sure that there's, like, realm of, like, okay, this is the money maker. This is the one where you're, like, kind of slaving away. Like, what. Where does criminal justice lie in that?

[Zach]

Well, what I would say is, like, in any field of law, you can make a decent amount of money. Okay. But also, I would also say if you want to make money, law is not really the place to go. It's just not the amount of time and effort it takes to get a law degree, to get licensed. There's just much easier and more effective ways to, like, make money. But if you really care about justice and you really care about helping people, I think law is a great profession. But, yeah, I don't know, because, you see, like, there's divorce lawyers, who, I'd say the safest, actually probably field of law is family law. And there's a lot of money in that. It is probably the most dangerous field of law. Like, substantially more dangerous than criminal law.

[Bliss]

You wouldn't think that, like, because most

[Zach]

people, when they are losing the person they've fallen in love with or they're losing their children mentally, that is the worst state of mind that you could ever be in. And so it is. Yeah, it. It's a. It's a very difficult field of law. There's a lot of very few lawyers who really even want to go into that field of law.

[Matt]

Are you saying dangerous, as in spouses, like, killing the spouse or spouses, like, taking their own life?

[Zach]

Lawyers being killed by their clients?

[Bliss]

Yeah. What, because they didn't get them the custody of the child?

[Matt]

I didn't know that. Lawyers get killed by their clients.

[Zach]

Does happen. It does happen.

[Matt]

Is that so you have to. You have to worry about that, too. You're trying to make the world a better place. You're like, ah, hopefully no one tries to kill me today.

[Zach]

Yeah, let's cut that part just in case there's any clients watching.

[Abby]

Thank you to the aspect PCA for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. We have a furry friend in our household for the first time in our marriage.

[Matt]

She's part of our family now.

[Abby]

I just love the excitement of when you come home. And maybe no one else is home for whatever reason, but if your dog is there, they are just so happy to see you. And it just puts such a big smile on my face.

[Matt]

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[Matt]

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[Zach]

But no, yeah, it is. It does have the highest homicide rate last time I checked.

[Bliss]

Like, for public defenders, like, because you did some public defending contracts, but you weren't like, technically a public defender, but that's. That probably the one that's like, more on. You make less money and it's more work. Or is it.

[Zach]

I mean, yeah, I mean, obviously if you're working on a, on a public defense contract, you're not making a lot of money. I think people, so many clients who do public defense are the most committed to justice. And it's funny to me that there's this negative connotation about people who do public defense because there's a real misconception. A lot of people don't understand that if you're in a municipality, the city itself is tasked with the criminal defense budget. And typically, most small municipalities will subcontract the private lawyers. So for example, where we lived in Wenatchee, the local municipality has subcontracted with our law firm, and then our law firm had subcontracted with other lawyers in the area. So our law firm would manage the public defense contract and then would have private lawyers who would take a portion of that. So, like, they'd take on 100 cases or 50 cases during the year. But there's this perception that public defense lawyers are somehow not as talented as private defense. And I will tell you that is not true. I've seen some tremendously talented public defenders out there. And the opposite in the private defense, where people feel like they're getting more because they're paying for it. Right. But actually, most public defenders are in trial every, you know, every month or so.

[Bliss]

It makes them really good at it. They're doing it. Yeah.

[Zach]

And this is like, if anyone out there is in a situation where they are looking for a lawyer in the space of criminal defense or personal injury, the number one skill that you need to make sure your lawyer has is the ability to go to trial and win. That is what determines the outcome. Like, at its core, a lot of criminal defense is like a high stakes poker game. And the, the, the cards are what is going to happen when we get in front of a jury. Will it be not guilty? We'll be guilty. And there's all these variables that you're trying to use to determine the probability of that. The facts on the case, the motions for suppression that one side may do over the other, whether certain protocols were followed. But all of those are building up in litigation until you get to that trial. And the way that I was always able to get my clients the best outcome is being willing to go to trial.

[Bliss]

And I like, I thought when you think of lawyers, you're like, oh, everyone goes to trial. Like, that's what lawyers do. But apparently it's a very small percentage that actually go to trial and actually are good at it. So it's definitely something I learned.

[Zach]

Most lawyers have never gone to trial.

[Matt]

It's crazy that that makes me like, when you describe the law as like a high stakes poker game, that kind of makes me uncomfortable because of the fact that it's people's life, like literally, sometimes it's literally their life. Are they going to get the death penalty? Right, Going into this, this second pregnancy because you're, you're, you're about to give birth here in like a couple of weeks.

[Bliss]

Literally. Hopefully not now. Hopefully he stays in there until we get home and not on the plane. Yes. It's coming up so quick with.

[Matt]

Yeah. With that birth, like, being. Being fast approaching. What are, like, your. Your fears, your worries? Like, anything that didn't really go according to plan with the first pregnancy and postpartum experience, that you're like, oh, I need to figure out a new way to navigate that.

[Bliss]

Yeah. I feel like so much like the birth itself was so intense. It was. I was in labor for 42 hours. I was overdue. I was almost 42 weeks, which is where they're like, we have to induce you. Like, and I got every intervention except a C section. And I was like, I wanted to go, like, no epidural and, like, oh, you know, like, home birth vibes. And it did not go that way. And my. My body would not dilate past 4 cm for 28 hours, and they broke. My water still wouldn't dilate. I had a doula. And she was helpful in a lot of ways, but there was a point where she was like, I don't even know what say about this. And I. In general, I feel like I'm a kind of a anxious person, which I didn't really realize that about myself until we got married, and we kind of were my mir. In a lot of ways. But I was just so tense about it. I was so scared. My mom. When I was 15, my mom had my little sister, and I was in the delivery room, and she literally almost died. They had. She was bleeding out. They had to start cutting her open while she was still awake in order to remove her uterus in time to save her. And I was in the room while she was just gushing blood, and it's, like, convulsing. And so I feel like I carried this trauma with me, and I still kind of have that trauma with me going into my birth. And so I think I was just. So. As much as I tried to be calm, I just wasn't. And I don't know if that's why my body wouldn't progress or if it's just. This is my body's first time doing it, and it doesn't know what's going on.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

So it was really, really scary for me. And I remember kind of like, anxiously reminding the doctors because each time. Every time a doctor would come in, I think they rotated, like, every six hours or something. And I would, like, tell them that my mom had this experience because, like, I didn't want to die through giving birth.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

And it was. It was really scary. This time around, I feel a little bit better about that. But my mom also had 3, 2 births prior to that that were totally normal and. Okay. And then the third birth was the one that was so intense and where she literally almost lost her life and had to get almost all of her blood through. Placed through a blood transfusion. It was really scary.

[Matt]

So are you saying they basically started a hysterectomy during.

[Bliss]

While she was awake.

[Matt]

They did the whole thing while she was awake.

[Bliss]

So they were able to get her out in time before it was completely done. But she remembers literally being cut open. They were shooting her with novocaine as they were cutting, and her doctor came to her. I'm gonna get emotional. But the day after, and we're still really close with her, she literally saved my mom's life. And, like, was crying to her, like, I saved you. Like, you were. I had 20 minutes to get your uterus out or you were just, just gone. And I remember, like, when they kicked us out of the room and took her off to the. Or, like, looking at my baby sister and like, my mom is someone who I admire and just love so much, and to, like, think that, like, she would possibly, like, never know her, it was really hard and scary. So birth carries a lot of, like, scary things, you know, And I think in our country, the birth or the. The maternal death rate is really high compared to a lot of other countries that are on the same level technologically and medical and science wise as us. So it's a scary thing. I think postpartum depression was really bad for me with my daughter. And it's weird because I. I was so happy when I was pregnant with her. Like, I felt like any sort of depression I ever had or anxiety was gone. And like, you even would comment on that, like, how I seemed so happy. It's like the pregnancy hormones, like, fixed my depression. And then when I gave birth, it was like, hard and fast, like, really quickly, like, deep, dark depression. And I really struggled with breastfeeding. She lost a ton of weight and I had to supplement with formula and I had to get a lactation specialist, which is honestly something I, like, recommend to anyone who's a first time, first time mom that hasn't nursed before. That really helped us. But the lack of sleep, like, it's going through having a child is kind of like a real shock to your whole life. It really, like, your whole life completely changes. And it's obviously, like, such the greatest blessing ever. But it was postpartum depression was really, really, really hard for me and I'm very scared of that happening again, to be honest. Like, I think I've struggled with a little bit of. Do they call it prenatal depression or. I don't know what it, what they technically call it, but like, kind of like some depression during my pregnancy has kind of flared up a little bit here and there. So I. And it's one of those things where it's like I felt like I really prepared the first time around for it. Like, I talked to my doula about postpartum depression and I was like, this is our plan. But can you. I don't know as much as you have a plan for something, like, sometimes it doesn't work out that way. So I'm a little apprehensive about that. And also having a toddler, like, I can't go that deep into it again because she needs me to be functional, you know, as well as my newborn. So. Yeah.

[Matt]

How did you, how did you find your, your way out of that? I mean, to be in a. What feels like a deep, dark pit that you're trapped in and you can't get out of and you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. What was something that you found to be helpful for getting, getting you back?

[Bliss]

Honestly, like, holding my daughter, like, seeing her like thinking about her life and how her life would be if she didn't have me and how that literally motivated. Motivated me to like be here for her and just honestly, like my love for her, like, I truly say that, like she saved me throughout that process. My. We had a lot of help from my mom. We were so grateful. She lived with us for about a year and that really helped me. I think I got into a place where I wasn't doing like any self care at all. And just like going on walks, like exercise has always been something that's really helped me kind of get out of my head. And so even just going on walks was really helpful for me. And just time, really, truly time and talking to other women that had experienced it as well. And actually I ended up taking medication for a while. I'm just remembering that. But yeah, I took medication too. And I think that actually helped me as much as I'm like, I want to do things very naturally and that wasn't something that I ever wanted to do. I feel like I needed to at the point that I was at.

[Abby]

Yeah. And I'm sure you opening up about your experience too, with struggling postpartum and even Choosing to take medicine like that, and that is giving so many moms that are listening like, that freedom to get that help afterwards. Because, like you said, you can go into postpartum knowing that this is something that can happen, but until you're in it and you're experiencing, it doesn't really. It doesn't take that. It doesn't have that same weight, you know? And so I think that's. Honestly, that's really candid of you to share. Like, yeah, I'm still. I've been through this again, and I'm apprehensive about doing it again. But here you guys are. You chose to have another baby, and it is such a blessing and, like, really exciting this time. You're having a boy. So how does that feel?

[Bliss]

It feels, honestly, like, weird. Honestly, I'm like, we know how to do a girl, and maybe they're not that different. I don't know. But it's. It's definitely. We have to think things about things a little differently, you know? Like, I keep being like, I have a boy in here. Like, there's a boy. It's so weird. Like, but it's also, like, obviously, 50. 50 chance that it would be a boy.

[Abby]

It's so weird because, like, obviously, yes. And you're like, yeah, they can be. It's a kid. Like, it's. There can't be that different. But for us, like, the thought of having, like, a boy, another. I was like, well, yeah, that's. That makes it a little easier. And I'm like, why? But, like, in my head, I was like, oh, well, okay, that'll be. That'll be. This will be a little easier. Like, we know how to do this.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But, yeah, every kid still brings their own unique, totally, like, you know, their quirks and everything. So do you intend. And you. You said that you had struggled a little bit with breastfeeding before. That was. I feel like that's something that. What really was shocking for us, like, especially me. I was just like, oh, this is natural. And it is. But then there's some times there's like, what is. What? This just feels like the most unnatural

[Bliss]

thing is my life hurts so bad.

[Abby]

So do you intend on trying that again? I do, yeah.

[Bliss]

Yeah. You know, something that my lactation specialist, like, told me that really kind of stuck with me is, like, just kind of like our day and age. You don't really see breastfeeding as much. You're not, like, seeing it, like, as you would maybe like, 200 years, 300 years ago in Like a village or whatever where everything's just all out in the open. Like, there's not that cultural aspect of like, oh, I'm passing this down to you, all this knowledge down to you of how to do it. Because like you said, it's natural, but it's also like, like feel so unnatural.

[Abby]

I also feel like our generation was mostly formula.

[Bliss]

Yeah, I was a formula.

[Abby]

Yeah, I do.

[Bliss]

I think I was best for maybe like two months.

[Abby]

I think my mom was like, what

[Bliss]

in the heck are you doing?

[Matt]

That's a good point though, because especially like in, in our western culture, it kind of feels like something that you have to hide.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Like, you know, especially with just the, the coverings and everything. Like, it's, it's, it's funny to me.

[Abby]

I, I feel like by the third, that's something I'm gonna give up.

[Bliss]

You're just like, yeah, but we were out and open. Oh, wow, we're in Arizona.

[Zach]

We were just going too hot.

[Matt]

Yeah, we were just in Hawaii. And you know, there's a lot more of like embracing of the eastern cultures out there and a lot more like crunchy moms.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

It was funny to me. Like, Abby and I were at a

[Abby]

lot of open nursing.

[Matt]

Yeah. Strawberry patch, like picking strawberries for their kids. And there's just moms like out like breastfeeding and we were just like, really threw us off. And I'm like, it's so natural. Like, it's so like, why is it that we have to be all like, yeah, because then. Yeah. Then moms have no idea what the freak to do when it comes to, to breastfeed.

[Abby]

Yeah. Babies just get so sweaty under there. I remember taking our kids out from under there and there's like, they're like red faced.

[Bliss]

We need more now.

[Abby]

I don't want to eat when I'm hot.

[Bliss]

No.

[Abby]

Literally, when I'm hot, I'm like, no, please. I'm overstimulated as it is. Like, yeah. And so I feel like that was also part of our kids frustration. They're like, what is all this?

[Bliss]

Too hot.

[Zach]

Taking a sauna session.

[Matt]

Thank you to Rocket Money for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. I don't know about you, but as parent to toddlers, we've had so many moments where our kids just grab the TV remote and start pressing buttons and they buy subscriptions without our permission and they don't even realize they're doing it.

[Abby]

So that's why without our permission, they have no idea. They're just playing a game. With a remote.

[Matt]

That's why I'm a huge fan of Rocket Money, which tracks your subscriptions and has the ability to cancel within the app. With a few taps, saving users over $880 million in cancel subscriptions, you can set budgets and goals, get personalized insights and regular reports. You also receive real time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, and low balances. I'm a huge fan also of how easy Rocket Money makes it to track your money and track your spending. I mean, by far though, the ease to cancel subscription is unmatched.

[Abby]

Really can't recommend Rocket Money enough. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join RocketMoney.com Unplanned that's RocketMoney.com Unplanned plans Unplanned Rocket Money.com Unplanned I think the

[Matt]

funniest thing to me though is just the freaking. The, like, the, the body transformation that, like, you women go through. Like, seeing, seeing Abby, just like, freaking. I, I, I just, I felt bad for at one point because I'm like, that is a watermelon. Like, I'm like, that, that cannot feel okay, you know, it doesn't. Ladies really go through it for our kids.

[Abby]

Oh, my gosh.

[Bliss]

Well, I, I breastfed until I was like, like, what? Three or four months pregnant, which was crazy. And so I feel like my body never even got a chance to go back to, like, normal. Not even that it would ever be what it was before. Bless my old body. I didn't know what I had, honestly. But it just went straight into it, you know, like, straight into like, like, my sister was like, what size bra are you? And I was like, I don't even know. I've been like, in nursing bras since, like, I gave birth two years ago. Like, I literally don't even know. It's such a weird thing.

[Abby]

That was wild. I also went from breastfeeding to pregnancy, and then I had a big gap. And that's when I was like, oh, oh, things are different after this. It is wild. And it's one of those things where I don't know how you feel. Also, I feel like my feelings on this fluctuate a lot. It's a lot easier to have, like, body freedom when you're pregnant. I feel like you're like, yeah, it is what it is. Like we're growing a baby. What do think you expect of it, but then sometimes, like, there's days where you're like, especially for me, it was like postpartum, I was like, wow. Like, when you say, bless your old body, I was like, matt, hide every picture of me before I had children. Delete them all. But then, like, now I'm like, hang on to them for life. We'll never see that again. I feel like there's just a certain, like, aspect now where I've been, like, you know, years into having kids, obviously still new to being a mom, where I'm just like, it is what it is. Like, this was just such a. Like, it's just your life gets. Gets put into such a perspective when you have children where you're like, you know, am I really just so worried I don't fit in those jeans anymore? Or am I so worried that, I don't know, things are hanging lower than they ever should? But, like, it's like, there's just a certain thing where you're like, that is such a small price to pay for this gift. But then it's also valid to, like, struggle with it.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Abby]

You know?

[Bliss]

Yeah. I don't. I totally agree that I kind of, like, vasily in and out of, like, it doesn't matter. And then I'm like. Kind of like, does like. Like, I was actually thinking the other day, like, my. You know, like, I'm just, like, wearing something super tight, and it's like my belly's out. And it's like, when I give birth, I'm totally not. I'm like, will I even feel comfortable doing that? I'm gonna, like, want to wear baggy things. But it's also, like, also need to honor my body, you know, and what it just did. And, like, because of my daughter, I feel like it's made me be. Yeah, I don't want her to ever feel that way. You know, I want her to always be proud of her body in every state, especially. Especially after she gives birth. Like, your body just, like, literally created a human being. Like, there shouldn't be any shame around how your body looks after that. And so I'm trying to be a good example for her now. That's good.

[Matt]

Now that you've, you know, done reality tv, you guys both have, you know, large social media followings. Do you feel any pressure to, you know, like. Like. Yeah. Do you feel that pressure as an influencer to make everything look perfect? Or how do you balance that to that. That struggle of being real while you're battling postpartum depression? But also wanting to protect yourself at the same time. How do you. How do you navigate all of that?

[Bliss]

It's so hard. I. I feel like Zach and I kind of have always, I feel, like, been really authentic online, I think, just as people. Do you not agree?

[Zach]

No, I agree.

[Bliss]

Okay. I think, like, as people, it's really hard, especially at our ages, like, it's just hard for us to, like, put up, like, a facade or a front. Like. Like, I just don't have any energy for that. That's also not what I want to cultivate in our society for the sake of, like, children that are growing up right now. Like, for things to be perfect, for things to be, you know, perfectly orchestrated or whatever. I think people that do follow us and know us and love our story, I think they gravitate towards us because we're very real about that. Like, if you look at our pictures, we're not, like, overly, like, polished by any means. And I. I did, you know, when I was ready. I feel like you have to be ready to open up. Like, sometimes there's things that happen in your life in the moment, you're not ready to share that, you know, and you take time to process that yourself. And then there's a time where, okay, I'm ready to share that. And, like, through my experience with postpartum. Postpartum depression, while I was, like, really deep in it, I wasn't sharing a lot of anything. I wasn't talking about it because I wasn't in a. Like, a. Ready to.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

And then when I was, I was ready to share. And I think that's what you have to do. You have to protect that. Protection of yourself, of that period of time where you're mourning or you're going through something that's sacred. You do that for you, and then when you feel right about it, you share that. I think that's where you find that balance, or where I feel like we found that balance.

[Zach]

Yeah. And to add on to that, I. I also don't think that we really were given, like, a. A cut that made us look like this perfect couple.

[Bliss]

True.

[Zach]

You know, like, I think you clearly saw that we have flaws. You saw Bliss and I argue on

[Bliss]

the show, they cut out a lot of arguing, actually. We don't want you to seem as mean as you can be.

[Zach]

But you see us. You see us argue. You see us have conflict, and that's all part of being in a natural relationship. And I think it is an interesting dynamic. Right. Because you don't necessarily share all of your conflicts. And I think people get this perception that they're. The couples that they're comparing themselves to don't have conflicts. And like, that is a healthy marriage. If you're not having some conflicts, then one party is not communicating. And then that I really think is like, a relationship is more likely to fall apart if there are no conflicts than if there are healthy conflicts that are regularly happening. But sharing that on, you know, on social media, obviously we're not out there like today. And I, Bliss and I debated about how close I need to be to our daughter when she's running around arms free.

[Matt]

Is that a conflict you guys had?

[Zach]

Like, how just the other day, how

[Matt]

much of a helicopter period should we be?

[Bliss]

Yeah, I'm so intense about it. Like, we were at the. We were in Vegas at the. This convention for children brands and stuff, and she was just running and there's people with suitcases and big things. And like, I'm like, you need to be within arm's reach, you know, like, you need like, swoop her up out of the way of like this cart running her over or like this, you know, Like, I definitely think I'm probably made him worse. Helicopter parent. Like, he was naturally helicoptery. And I'm like, yeah, but this is our first, right? So we'll see. He might just go live.

[Abby]

Just really.

[Bliss]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

You guys are gonna get so much more relaxed. Like, we were just at the airport with both our boys after Disneyland and they had a full on lightsaber battle at the airport.

[Abby]

They were within arm's reach during a lightsaber, which is actually at. That was dangerous for us.

[Matt]

I did bring them. I brought them to a section where

[Abby]

I was like, okay, they're not gonna hit anybody.

[Matt]

They were like, like off the main path where people are like, trying to walk and get to their gate. But yeah, so people could like, at least see when they're. If they were trying to like, walk, you know, near that area, they knew, okay, there's a two and three year old having a very intense Jedi warrior battle.

[Abby]

I was like, don't worry. I was like, their dad is right there. They're. They're like. I just felt like I was like, this is a little crazy.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. No head shots, though. We.

[Abby]

We've had no head shots. The other person has to have a weapon. You established rules.

[Bliss]

There you go.

[Abby]

Both people have to have weapons. Yeah, yeah. There's just. You establish rules you never thought you'd make and. Yeah, no, that'll be so fun. That dynamic is really sweet. Me and my brother, I'm older and then I have a younger brother and he'll already have another mom. Like, I just feel like with a.

[Bliss]

Like they just have that natural instinct.

[Abby]

I don't know. I'm like, you're just little. It's her husband. That is my brother.

[Bliss]

How many years are you guys apart? Oh, yeah, that'll be there.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Abby]

I'm like, he's a baby. He's a little infant that I must take care of.

[Bliss]

She's very nurturing.

[Zach]

What do you wish your parents would have done differently with the two of you or something?

[Bliss]

They did. Well, I was gonna ask.

[Abby]

Yeah. Like, are you guys done it too then?

[Bliss]

I don't. You know, it's weird. I feel like this weird pressure to like, when I got pregnant with him, I was like, okay, am I gonna have a third of me? I've like, it's been like this daily question. It's dangerous for me if I have a third in a way, because twins run in my family. I'm a twin. You could be getting for his cousin just found out she's having triplets. She has a one year old, so she's gonna have four under two.

[Abby]

Bless her.

[Bliss]

It's. Honestly, I'm shook, but also scared. But also yay. But also, oh, my God, I'm scared. I'm not. It's not even happening to me. So we have to like, be prepared for multiple. Especially because I'll be older. Like, I'm 36. If we had triplets, I'm like the key. Like we. Does anyone.

[Abby]

It's not even on my radar of, like, consideration. So that. That would be a real shock.

[Bliss]

So. Because they run so hard on both sides of our family, twins, multiples, like, it's something like, okay, like, if we want a third, like, we might accidentally have like four.

[Abby]

I do think growing up in a family with one girl and one boy, the dynamic is really. It is really great. It's very even. It makes a lot of sense. And I feel like you can be really, really close.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And so, like, our family is like, extremely tight knit. And like my parents, it was really like me and my mom paired up and my brother and my dad paired up. Like, I always give the example. Like, sometimes we would. Me and my mom would go out to dinner ourselves and they would go to a different restaurant. Like Buffalo Wild Wings Panera. Like, that would happen often. And so, like, we really are like, I'm like my mom's buddy.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Abby]

My dad's buddy. That insane. Like, to answer your question, I do think that, like, maybe some more like, mother, daughter or mother. Yeah. Mom, dad, father. Like, that is where you have to be a little bit more intentional, because I do feel like you do split off in that way a little bit and that type of family. But I do think, like, we were, like, researching, like, just for fun, obviously, like, there's so many other factors that influence, like, family satisfaction, happiness.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But, like, there's a really high correlation of, like, one girl, one boy. Families being, like, one of the highest. Like, oh, really? Hi. Wasn't that true? We looked this up together.

[Matt]

I. What? I can't remember. It was probably something I'd like. I looked up with, like, chat. GPT.

[Bliss]

You did.

[Abby]

And it's like, I honestly feel like there's a lot more things that have a higher.

[Matt]

No. When I found, I was like. I was like, babe, we gotta cap it at 4. Because I was like, the more kids you keep having after four, it's just, like, less time for your spouse. Less time for your spouse.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And which, I mean, honestly, every kid you have is gonna be another person you're adding to the picture, so you're not gonna have as much. Much intentional time of just the two of you.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But apparently, though, the more kids you have, the more purpose you have in your life. But maybe not as much.

[Bliss]

And the longer you live. Right. I think the more kids you have, like.

[Matt]

Oh, that's true too. Yes.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Abby]

Like, having grandparents, being around grandchildren makes them live a lot longer too.

[Bliss]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abby]

Anyway, all that to say. I think that even if, like, this is the end, like, one girl and boy, I think that's a. I love. I love the way my family was

[Bliss]

said up and so sweet. Like, I kind of feel, like, sad. Like, is this the last time I'm pregnant? You know, like, there's that weird thing where it's like. But it's also. I don't know, we'll see. What if we end up having triplet?

[Abby]

I think it's good to not have that pressure.

[Bliss]

Like, yeah, I'll decide. I'll see how it is with him. And, you know, we'll go from there, I guess.

[Matt]

Okay. We do have some rapid fired. Qu. Rapid fire questions are audience submitted for you guys. So I think this will be kind of fun.

[Bliss]

I'm not great at rapid fire. We'll try long answers.

[Zach]

Elaborate. Long winded answers.

[Matt]

Okay, first question. This is from a girl named Chelsea Hayden. She said, where did you come up with your daughter's name?

[Bliss]

Zach? Loves alliterations. His last name is Gi or our last name is Gi. And he. He loved the name Goliath. And we're like, oh, gosh, I'm not gonna do Goliath. That's just before we even started having kids. I'm like, goliath is not on the table for me. Like, I'm sorry. I love you. No. So we talked about different gene names, and someone had told him, like, oh, well, what about the name Galileo? Like, when he was randomly talking about. About kid names, and he was like, I really like that. And then he told me the name, and I was like, honestly, like, I love that for a boy or a girl. Like, we love what Galio stands for. You know, like, kind of going against the grain of what, you know, what he believed scientifically to be true or observed and, like, what people were telling him to believe in. Getting in, standing up for the right thing or standing up for honesty.

[Matt]

My memory was this him, like, fighting against the Catholic Church.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

About the sun.

[Bliss]

The sun being the center of the universe. They're like, no, the Earth is. He went to jail for it and stuff.

[Matt]

That's crazy.

[Bliss]

Yeah, Crazy, right?

[Matt]

That's cool.

[Bliss]

And it's also, like, Galilee, which is his last name, is like, the birthplace of Jesus. Like, spiritually just kind of lined up for this. And I'm like, honestly, like, I kind of love when, like, a little girl has, like, a boy name. I just think it's so cute or an androgynous name or whatever. So we decided on Galileo before we even got got pregnant. We did be our first kid.

[Zach]

We had the name picked out before we knew, before she even existed.

[Bliss]

We stuck with it. And I don't want all the kids to be G's, I don't think, but we. Our first could be an alliteration. He could get that.

[Zach]

We actually filmed a little video for her before, like, the day we decided, because she was not unplanned. None of our babies have been unplanned. They were all planned. It was. It was like, we got a video and we recorded it for her, saying, like, hey, today is the day that we decided to exist.

[Bliss]

This is gross. I'm like, oh, cool, Great. I know what you did.

[Matt]

You just did it. And happy birthday.

[Zach]

I'm gonna give it to her on her 18th birthday.

[Matt]

Oh, my gosh. That's dope, though. I have a similar, like, video that I need to show our kids one day. It's like, Abby and I, like, we're skating at a roller skating alley.

[Abby]

Place.

[Matt]

It's like a roller rink.

[Bliss]

Oh, yeah.

[Abby]

This is before we got married.

[Matt]

And it's like, babe, what do you have to say to our future kids? And she's like, hi, kids. Go to bed.

[Abby]

Like, whatever.

[Matt]

That's kind of. That's cool. We need to do that more. That's cool that you guys made a video.

[Abby]

We made a video like that on our wedding night.

[Matt]

We did, yeah. We wrote like, we recorded a message to our future selves on our wedding night,

[Abby]

but. That's sweet. I like that. So baby boy is named.

[Bliss]

Well, with him it's a little bit different. We didn't like, have like a name like, oh, we're a second born's gonna be this one. So it's kind of up in the air and I. I don't know, I want to like, see him, you know?

[Matt]

Right. Yeah.

[Bliss]

We could go with Jude and.

[Matt]

And with your daughter.

[Abby]

Your daughter can say it and.

[Matt]

But then with your daughter though, isn't there like the part in Bohemian Rhapsody that's like Galilee?

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Everyone, thank you to ZocDoc for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Raise your hand if you've been putting off a doctor's appointment. That is me. I need to get my ADHD medicine refilled. I've been putting that off and I shouldn't be because it's so, so easy with Zoc, Doc. You guys, if you haven't heard of ZocDoc, it's a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. We're talking about booking in network work appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states.

[Abby]

They have so many specialties, too. Seriously, whether you're looking for dermatology, dentistry, primary care, eye care, or any one of the other 200 plus specialties offered on Zocdoc, you can easily search by specialty or symptom to build the care team that's right for you. I think a primary thing I want to highlight to a zocdoc is that they will find providers that accept your insurance. That alone is such a great service because it can be so confusing to try to find a provider for. Oh, you're neat. You've been experiencing knee problems. Well, where do I even go with that? And then who's going to take my insurance? It's not going to cost me an arm and a leg. And all these X, Y and Z, they really make that a seamless experience. I can't recommend them enough for that, I use Zocdoc.

[Matt]

And you should, too. Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to Zocdoc.com unplanned to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That Zocdoc.comUnplanned Zocdoc.comUnplanned Thanks, Zocdoc, for sponsoring this message. Next question we have is, do you have any regrets from your time on? Love is Blind.

[Zach]

Well, this is not gonna be a rapid fire, I'll tell you that. I mean, there were some things that, yeah, I regretted, but one was not. I think that what happened with Bliss and I. And, you know, I was kind of getting at this, and then we got sidetracked.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I think really needed to happen because it was when I broke up with Bliss in the pods that I knew I had made a mistake. And I. Like, in my head, I was like, you gotta run in there. You gotta tell her. You change your mind, you gotta go tell the producers. You gotta ask them to bring her back. And I was like, you made your choice. You gotta live with it. And I remember going to Mexico and being there and, like, just thinking, like, even if it didn't work, even if it hadn't worked out, she was always the person that you should have failed with. Like, that was. And she gave me this quartz heart that I still have today that I keep with me. And every time I look at it, it just made me feel a little bit better. Even though I was in this really, really dark place, things were really bad in Mexico. It was like, a lot of stuff you didn't see. And I was really sad that I'd gone through all of this, you know, for not to work out, to end up with being kind of played a little bit. I was just like, all right, you know? And she gave me this book, and we talked about this Red Rising. And I was reading it the whole time that I was in Mexico. And every time I would read a chapter, I would just think about her and how much we had in common. And, like.

[Bliss]

So it's like a yes or no, baby.

[Zach]

I. Well, no, it's just, like.

[Bliss]

It's complicated for me. I would say, no, I don't. I think everything had to happen as it was, like, in order for us to, like, get where we are now.

[Zach]

Yeah. And so when I met her in. In person, and I just felt that connection immediately. Like, from the second she walked in the door, I was like, oh, I think that might be my wife.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And it was all of that. That Brought me to that point of being able to just know when we got to the altar that there were no questions, because I'd already felt all that pain and all of that desire before we had even met. And then when the chemistry was there, it just clicked. And I don't know if I could have known with so much certainty if I hadn't said no initially.

[Matt]

What was the timeline from getting back together to getting married?

[Bliss]

We have the shortest engagement in love is blind history.

[Matt]

Two weeks.

[Bliss]

I think it was, like. It was like, 15 days.

[Matt]

No way.

[Bliss]

From getting engaged.

[Zach]

I proposed to her in three days.

[Bliss]

So, like, we met. We met at the restaurant. Then it was like, three days. Three or four days. Four days later. Four days later, you proposed to me.

[Zach]

I think we met on a Tuesday. I propose on a Friday.

[Bliss]

Yeah. Actually.

[Matt]

How would you feel if you're. You're. If Galileo one day meets somebody and is married to them within 15 days or 16 days, whatever it was, it

[Zach]

puts us in an awkward situation.

[Bliss]

Well, it does, in a way, but also, like, the process in which we went through, like, you're literally doing nothing but talking for hours on end. You're not engaging in any activities. You're just, like, sitting, talking. The bonding, the level of connection, the things you uncover that happens during that time is so different. Like, it basically going on, like, 30 dates. Right. Like, in the time period, because that's all you're doing is talking, sometimes for five or six hours at a time. So I would ask her, like, did you go? Did you guys, like, go through the lotus mind process? Also, like, I think our goal with parenting is, like, obviously, unless it's something dangerous or, like, unhealthy, like, we want to, like, unconditionally support her.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

And so we might be, like, apprehensive, and we'd obviously, like, need to meet the person, but, like, like, we're gonna support our daughter no matter what.

[Zach]

I mean, I think the goal is, you know, we've got at least 16 more years,

[Matt]

got some time.

[Zach]

And the goal is to raise her to be a wise woman who makes decisions with both her mind and her heart. And I, you know, I would support my daughter if she actually came to me and said, I believe this is the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. I would trust her.

[Matt]

And this whole time timeline from, you know, starting the show, you have the 10 days of dating everybody and then getting to know each other, and then you get engaged, go on a honeymoon, coffee, engagement, then meet up, then get engaged, then get Married. This entire timeline. Did that happen within, like, was it. Was it a month?

[Bliss]

I think it was two months.

[Zach]

Well.

[Bliss]

Oh, no. Like the whole process.

[Matt]

The entire process from start.

[Bliss]

So March is when we went into the pods and our anniversary just happened on May 9th. So it was. Yeah, like little less than two months.

[Zach]

So it was two weeks in the pods. Four. Four or five days in Mexico.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Zach]

And then from when Bliss and I met, it was three days to the engagement, and then two weeks.

[Matt]

Holy cow.

[Bliss]

It was really quick.

[Matt]

That's. That's really fast. Yeah, that's more like a month, honestly.

[Bliss]

Yeah. Yeah. Especially because as we were apart for that.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

Or and a half or whatever.

[Abby]

And I remember from the show your dad was pretty apprehensive about not just the process, but specifically, I feel like it was geared towards you. What's your relationship with your father in, like, now?

[Zach]

We're good. Yeah. Yeah. We. We went fishing.

[Matt]

No way. You guys went fishing?

[Zach]

I didn't catch anything.

[Bliss]

You got really sunburned.

[Zach]

I caught a sunburn.

[Matt]

Did you catch anything?

[Zach]

Yeah, he caught a lot of fish.

[Abby]

I remember he was like asking about fishing and stuff, and I was like, I don't know if that's his interest.

[Bliss]

Yeah. I grew up in Alaska and my dad's a very outdoorsy person.

[Zach]

So if we're in the zombie apocalypse, she's catching all the fish.

[Bliss]

That's true.

[Abby]

That's true.

[Bliss]

I got you, baby.

[Matt]

Have you ever considered moving to Alaska to raise your family there?

[Bliss]

You know, I would love to have, like a cabin there. Like, the summers are just so amazing there, and I want to expose our children to that kind of side of life and a little bit of a slower life and living off the land. And so I think our goal would be to have like a home there one day. Probably not permanently year round. It gets like so dark there during the winter. It just would not be fun. Fun in that way.

[Zach]

But we definitely need to go on a family trip to Alaska.

[Bliss]

Yeah. It's so gorgeous, you guys. It's like nothing. You've. No mountains you've ever seen.

[Matt]

Like, I want to go so bad.

[Bliss]

It's so worth it.

[Matt]

Northern lights.

[Bliss]

The northern lights.

[Zach]

Did you guys get to see the northern lights? Like this was it two years ago?

[Matt]

I didn't. Doesn't feel like I've never seen them years ago. Have you seen the northern lights?

[Zach]

So when Galileo was born, when we

[Bliss]

announced her birth, actually that night, the northern lights and they're never where we live in Seattle area. They never are there. They Just randomly were there. It was crazy.

[Zach]

I came and I woke up, up bliss.

[Bliss]

And I was like, leave me alone. I'm trying to sleep. I've already seen them, was my answer, because I grew up. But I'm glad I got out.

[Zach]

I was like, no, baby, you have to come out here. This is unlike anything I've ever seen. The entire sky was lit up in all of these weird green purple colors. I mean, it felt like a. Like a movie. It was. Yeah, they're. They are something else.

[Bliss]

Do you guys ski?

[Matt]

I like to snowboard.

[Bliss]

Okay, so go like, for, like, a snowboarding trip. Trip in the winter and go to, like, an area, like, more northern.

[Matt]

Maybe, like, some work in Canada, maybe.

[Bliss]

Oh, yeah, you could go Canada. You could go somewhere in Alaska. There's so many places, and you'll very likely see them.

[Matt]

Okay, yeah, I need to do that.

[Bliss]

It's totally worth it.

[Matt]

Next question is, what is one thing that was not aired that you wish was shown?

[Bliss]

Oh, for me, I think it's, like, the depth of our connection. Like, there's so much, like, they've gotten kind of better about showing what happens in the pods. Like, that's truly where all this interesting things happen. I think our connection. They did. Did their best, I think, to show it, but it was so much more like there's something else going on here, like, from the universe or God or. Like, there's something else going on here that's like. There's so many things that we have in common. There's so many synchronicities between us. There's so many intense, like, emotional moments

[Zach]

that we have because it doesn't. You. You barely see what happened with the owls.

[Bliss]

Oh, well, like, the owl, Like a owl. Like a snowy owl, or just owls in general, has kind of been like my, like, symbol with things like, okay, like, this is, like, I'm a pretty spiritual person. Like, this is my sign from God or the universe or whatever that I'm, like, on the right track.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

And I remember when I was like, I was thinking about breaking up with my ex, and I was driving down the road, and I saw, like, a huge, dead barn owl in the road in front of me. Like, super obvious. Like, I was like, okay. Like, this is. I need. I knew that I needed to, but it kind of helped me be like, okay, yeah, this is happening. And on the first day, because you obviously can't see the person, I was like, oh, what are you wearing? You know? And he was like, oh, I have, like, an owl. Like you said, I Was wearing, like, a suit or something in a tie, and I had, like, have, like, an owl. What is it? Tie, clothes, clip. And I was like, no, you don't. And he was like, why would I lie about that? Because, like, for me, I was like, this is crazy. And I, like, when I heard his voice for the first time, when he said, my name is Zach, like, I just, like, knew he was my person. And then that on top of it, like, made me freak out even more. So I kind of wish they showed the more, like, magical moments that happened in the pods between us to, like, really show the depth of our connection. Like, how much I loved him and why I kind of even like, gave him even the opportunity of coming back after what happened was because we had had that such deep connection and so many magical things happened in the pods.

[Matt]

Did they give you permission just to talk for as long as you want to talk?

[Bliss]

No. Oh, they'll cut you off mid sentence. And boy, did they with him. He would be, like, in a long monologue.

[Matt]

That happened a lot.

[Bliss]

Yeah, they don't. I think that's part of, like, what make, you know, like, they want to cultivate an environment of, like, wanting that person, right? So they'll, like, just cut you off, they'll give you a warning, like, you have five minutes left or something. And then it's like, a lot of times he would be, he would be the one in the middle of a sentence. It was just, you can leave, though, if you want. Like, if you don't want to have a date with that person anymore, you can just leave. And.

[Zach]

But yeah, I, I, I agree. I think that some of our connections in the pods and what we connected on, you don't get to see that. And part of it is just, it's tv and they have a very short amount of time and they have to be concise.

[Bliss]

And I think every couple says that, that they wish they showed more.

[Zach]

And we were, we were lucky, like I said, to get as much of our relationship shown as it was. But, yeah, the I, I really felt like there were signs that were being given to me that she was the person. And, like, I felt like that before I broke up with her. Like, I felt like I was getting those signs, and that's why I kind of compared it to Jonah and the Whale.

[Matt]

But aren't they giving you guys alcohol, though? Like, is any part of this?

[Zach]

I wasn't drinking.

[Matt]

You weren't drinking?

[Bliss]

I'm not a big drinker. Like, I'll drink. I, I'm a lightweight. Just like, genetically, I think so. Like, I just, just. I wanted to also be in like a clear state, you know, and like it was there if you wanted it. But every like, water was in my golden goblet. Or like a bubbly water, something sparkling water.

[Zach]

I did drink at the bachelor party, though.

[Matt]

Oh, really?

[Zach]

And I drink a lot in Mexico.

[Matt]

Oh, God, that. Yeah. Feeling, feeling the weight and the stress.

[Zach]

Oh my gosh. That is horrible.

[Bliss]

Stress reducer.

[Abby]

Okay, another user submitted question from MOAD 17. I love everybody's name says, would you recommend love is blind to other people? So I'm assuming like a friend is like being recruited or whatever scouted. Yeah, they've been, they've received a random voicemail. Do you recommend the experience?

[Bliss]

Honestly? Yeah, I, I think that if you are actually looking for love, I think it's a really beautiful opportunity to fall in love with someone with. For the right reasons. Right. Like, obviously physical attraction is important and that's an important part of what makes a relationship work. But when do you ever get to say that you get to like, actually just like, like meet someone and learn someone for who they are on the inside. That's such a cool opportunity. And if you're going to take it seriously. We talked about a lot about vulnerability. Like, you've got to be vulnerable. You've got to really go into this, taking it seriously, then. I absolutely would.

[Zach]

One, Yeah. I would say if you are looking to actually get married.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I would highly recommend it. If you're not. If you're thinking like, oh, this is gonna make my life better. It's probably not.

[Bliss]

Probably not.

[Zach]

It's probably not. Right. The only way it is going to make your life better. Well, I mean, I think you'll grow if you, if you're serious about it, you, you will grow as a person. Like, genuinely, if, listen, I hadn't worked out, I think I would have been a much better person as a result. But, but everything else that comes along with it, like the attention, like the ridicule that people get. I, you know, I don't.

[Bliss]

Unless you're gonna take it seriously.

[Zach]

Yeah. Do not, do not do it unless you're seriously trying to get married. And I think there, there have been people who have gone on for clout. Yeah. As the seasons have developed and I don't even know if I'd use that word. I just say that they're, that they're doing it because of the allure of, of being on television or of, you know, doing that and it doesn't go well. It doesn't go well. You know, it just, it doesn't. And I, I, I really think if Love is Blind wasn't televised, like, if it was just like a dating service, I think it'd be very successful.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Oh, you do?

[Zach]

I do.

[Matt]

Wait, maybe that should be. Maybe somebody should start that as, like, a company or something.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Seriously, the creator could. I really. I. Because I, I think the systems there and everything that they have, have is founded in solid scientific research.

[Bliss]

They give you questions to ask each day that help delve deep into, like, about finances and, like, various things that help you uncover, like, meaningful things, see if you're aligned.

[Matt]

So that's so cool.

[Zach]

The problem, the problem that you really encounter with it is now you don't know if the person on the other side is being honest.

[Bliss]

Yeah, right.

[Zach]

Or if they're coming in with other motives. And because of that, like, I've seen so many seasons, you guys, where but for someone trying to play games, trying to win, a couple didn't get together, that would have likely.

[Bliss]

Or.

[Zach]

But for it being televised, like, I don't want. I'm not gonna go into.

[Bliss]

Don't give any.

[Zach]

Yeah. I won't go into names, but there are couples that are together now that didn't match because they weren't a. They weren't ready to get vulnerable on television about certain things. And so they didn't get together. But I'm telling you, every season there's at least one couple that ends up together later, but for the television portion of it. So, yeah, I think it would be. It's a huge opportunity.

[Abby]

I remember in junior high, you could pay Valentine's Day, like, $3 to have the matchmaker quiz.

[Bliss]

Oh, yeah.

[Abby]

I bet they do really great in junior high guys, too. They'd be like. They'd be like, my la.

[Zach]

Oh, my God.

[Abby]

Did you guys do that?

[Matt]

Never did that.

[Abby]

This is reminding you. I was like, why do I feel like I've taken some love quiz before?

[Bliss]

Yeah. That's so cute.

[Abby]

Yeah. But obviously way more science going into that. This one says if you met. It's by K. Hubers 06. If you met in the real world, do you think you would have gotten together?

[Bliss]

Yeah, I think it would have taken us a lot longer to get where we are, obviously, because it's like a forced, like, deep connection. So quick. But, yeah, I do.

[Zach]

We talk about this not in our 20s, actually. Yeah. We met in the time where we were probably meant to get to be. We debate about this about. I think just knowing my Personality and the type of women that I normally gravitated towards. I think I really would have gravitated towards her. I don't know if she would have gravitated towards me.

[Bliss]

There's certain. Obviously your foundational qualities, but I think. Think I was a lot, like, less tolerant about certain things and a lot more easily annoyed. I feel like I would have just been like, you're annoying or something. I don't know. We definitely were meant to be in our 30s, which may have worked. I just think I was in such a different mental space in my 20s that I don't know if it would have worked. But he's like, we would have had 10 kids if we met in our 20s. I'm like, 10. I don't think that. I don't think it would have 10 kids.

[Abby]

But sweet.

[Bliss]

Yeah, it's sweet. You believe in us, no matter how old we were.

[Abby]

Is named Abby Elizabeth Howard. I'm just so curious. What is something about the process of love is blind? Because so many people know Love is Blind as a show now, and there's a lot of. I mean, it has created so much buzz. Like, what is something about the process as people that have gone through it, seen the whole thing through that people wouldn't guess based off watching the show? Like, as a viewer,

[Zach]

I'm gonna really think about that.

[Bliss]

Okay.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Bliss]

For me, I think it's like. And we kind of touched on this a little bit, but just, like, how much time you really are spending talking to these other people? Because to you as a viewer, it may seem like, oh, my gosh, all of a sudden they're saying, I love you. Like, this is like, their second or third date. Like, what is going on here? Like, this is totally crazy. This makes absolute zero sense. Sense.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

But if, you know, the time that goes into it, like, literally, like, I don't know, at the end of it, Maybe it's like 80 hours plus of straight just talking. It really adds to, like, okay, I actually can get, like, how these people would fall in love. And honestly, like, you, there's no way that, like, all of you could be shown on through the show. Just the amount of time they have, like, every side of you. And these people are human. And I think it's so easy to, like, like, ostracize someone or villainize someone or, like, put so much hate on someone when you don't have the full picture of who they are. I think that's just in general for reality tv.

[Zach]

But, okay, so there's. There's two Things. And, and this is kind of playing off of what Bliss was saying. I think the first one, this is something I realized, and you guys have probably experienced this too. Reality TV and, And celebrity culture in general is an act of catharsis for most people. They're either living a fantasy that they, like, they wish that they could experience through that person, or they're taking out their aggression that they can't express in their normal life on a fictional character. And it feels cathartic to do so. And that is something we've seen with all of reality tv where with social media, it's been taken to a totally new level. But we see it. It couldn't. Every, you know, every season of Love is Blind. You see it with the Bachelor. But it's. It's becoming harder and harder to get people to go on these shows because of. It's become a ritual to. To shame the people who are being shown on this. For how long? You know, years. For like a single moment that could be taken out of context and may have been their very worst moment. And we were really cautious about this when the show came out, really tried to talk to people about forgiving the people that were on the show and not judging them and understanding that, like, for many people, they were pushed to the brink and you saw their very worst. Yeah, but this person is better than that and they can grow. And I remember from our season, that was one thing that you didn't. That got cut. So there was a line that, like everybody has quoted me on. And it wasn't cut, like, from the show is live. We were the only live reunion. So we were able to say everything and there was no cut, no way. But the, the clip of it, everybody's forgotten the last part of what I said. So I confronted my ex on the, on the, at the reunion, and I tried to keep it very short and sweet, which was just. And the best way I could do it without going to all the details and the messed up things that had happened was just saying you came in on the show to get famous. And that has been blown up. People have seen that. But it's been taken out of context because there's a but behind that. And the but was. But I know that you can become a better person. And I know and anyone out there who wants to judge you, like, don't. And I'm not quoting myself verbatim here, but that was immediately after I said that, which is don't judge this person. You saw them at their worst. They can grow and they can become more. And that doesn't make a catchy clip. Everyone's like, yeah, you came in this to be famous. This not, yeah, you came this to be famous, but this was you at your worst. And that you're a good person and you can become better. That was kind of left out.

[Bliss]

Kind of like a behind the scenes thing that I think is people think. People think we, like, live in the pods or like we live in that lounge and we actually have our own rooms that we get to go back to in a hotel. Oh, I would say, yeah, like, you kind of make it seem like you kind of live there, but thankfully you.

[Zach]

You have your own, and that really facilitates the connect. Go ahead.

[Matt]

I was gonna say I really liked how you just said right there how even. Even your ex, who, you know, you know, you had. You had that moment that was clipped and everything. I love how you said that you wanted better for her. And you. I feel like you're a good guy and I feel like you want to see good in the world. And I also, I. I think that, like, it's so. It's so funny that the book that I've been reading, Red Rising, which you read while you were on your honeymoon and in which that's the book that Bliss recommended that you read Red Rising, I love how, like, the main character in that book is also embodying that, like, view of the world of. Okay, there's all these bad people that I want to see change and I want to see be better versions of themselves. And that's like a constant theme throughout the Red Rising series of these, you know, these gold characters who are at the highest point of the caste system are, you know, technically like the bad guys are the villains in the book. But Daryl, the main characters, wanting to see them change.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So I don't know. I thought that was kind of cool. Kind of just wanted to nerd out there for a little bit. I feel like you're a little bit nerdy too.

[Bliss]

Oh, very nerdy, I would say A lot of it. Yeah, we're both a lot of it.

[Matt]

What are some nerdy things that people wouldn't expect about you guys? Is there some. Are you guys playing dungeon and dragons, like, every night?

[Zach]

Try to get her to do.

[Bliss]

He wants me to. So bad.

[Zach]

And like, you guys ever want to play together? Let's do it.

[Abby]

Played.

[Bliss]

I think I've never played it.

[Zach]

We'll do it. I'm down. We'll do it. We'll do it online. I'm okay. I. I've Actually never gotten to play D D, but I really want to. I'm big into storytelling. I love, like, the idea of it.

[Matt]

Okay, that's cool.

[Bliss]

Yeah, we're pretty nerdy. I think, like, the amount of, like, accents we do and, like, just quirky, funny, like, little sayings we do with our daughter. And, like, all the singing. Maybe people would think the singing is something we do after what they saw on the show, but. But we do a lot of singing. We're really into reading. We, like, create random, weird stories with our daughter. We've talked about creating and writing books together and different things. We're pretty. Yeah, we're pretty, like, normal nerds, I would say.

[Abby]

I think the most appropriate question to end on comes from Kylanvug, is love truly blind?

[Zach]

So I'll all start.

[Abby]

I guarantee you I'm not the first person to ask you that question.

[Bliss]

No, but it's such a good one.

[Zach]

I think it is. And I think the problem is the words that we use. Okay. In the English language, we use love to describe a very broad scope of emotions. And I think other languages have more precise ways of defining love. Right. So when we talk about the romantic love, love, we're talking about, like, Eros. Have you familiar with Eros?

[Bliss]

Yeah, the Roman or Greek.

[Zach]

So Eros, agape and Philia. And there's. There's another word for love, too, but I won't go into it. But the love that we have for our friends, the romantic love that we have for another person, and that unconditional love that you have for. For a child. Right? Agape. The unconditional love that there's. I believe. And agape is probably the most important. That's what really we're all seeking. Right. That romantic love matters, too. And I think when people think, is love blind? They're thinking, is the romantic feeling. Like, obviously, what drives a romantic connection? There's a physical component to it, there's a visual component to it, but there's also a mental and a psychological component to it. And I don't think you can weigh one over the other. I think that they both matter. But love certainly can be blind. And I think the experience of going through love is blind really opened me up to love in ways that I didn't realize it would. And I feel like. And there was one question, actually. I remember this is kind of, you know, like, there was a question when I was going through all of the. There's, like, a hundred questions they ask you before you go on the show, and you answer each One. And it said, do you think love is blind? And I was kind of like. My initial response was, I. You know, I don't know. Like, I don't know if it is or isn't. I don't think so. And the next question was, have you ever been in love? And I was like, yes. And it said, would you still have loved that person if they were in a different body? And I was like, yeah. And that. That was where I was like. And then I kind of changed my answer. I was like, yeah, I think love can be blind. And I think about bliss, like, if. If tomorrow I woke up and bliss, like, changed bodies and she was in.

[Bliss]

Something happened to me, like, an accident. Change the way I look.

[Zach]

Yeah, but, like, Freaky Friday, you know, like, my love for you, me and

[Bliss]

my Chad change bodies. Aren't you kidding?

[Matt]

See, like, I'm cool with. Like, you're giving a really good point. I feel like I disagree, but I love. Like, you said that so well. But then I feel like, from my standpoint, it's like I'm loving the change that Abbie's experiencing as the person that I chose to love. You know? Like, I think it's fun to get to love the version of her now, a decade later, that. That we. Like, she's pregnant with our third boy, and, like, we're so excited for that. But, yeah, tell me, tell me, tell me more. Like, you're saying even if she, like, looked completely different. Yeah, that would be.

[Zach]

I. I think that our connection and what we've gone through together.

[Bliss]

I think what we've gone through. Yeah. I mean, I think even just in the pods, like, I can genuinely. I think we both can genuinely say that we loved each other before. Before we saw each other. Like, we loved who the. Each person was. And, you know, not to say that, like, it wouldn't have mattered at all physically what he looked like. Maybe it would have. And maybe it was just luck that I liked the way he looked. Right. But I think that you can. There was. It's kind of weird to say this, but there's actually, like, a sexual connection, like, a physical chemistry that I had with him without seeing him. And so, like, I was attracted to him even though I couldn't physically see him. So it's weird. It's. It's really weird to explain and maybe hard to understand, like, if you haven't gone through that, but it's. You know what I'm saying? Like, you. You. Yeah. Like, there's like a. There's a. Literally, like, A physical reaction, my physical attraction happening without seeing him. So that's cool. Yeah, it's weird.

[Zach]

You see it. You see it. The moment when we meet for the first time, like, after everything that's happened, we just, like, just clicked.

[Bliss]

I was trying to be really, like, mad.

[Zach]

She was. But even with her trying to, like, I could read through that. Like, I could see that that was.

[Bliss]

Yeah. Chemistry that was there in the pods, just was there as well. Physically, like, in person. It was really weird.

[Matt]

Now you're making me wish I could have experienced this with Ash, because our version. Our version of this was just like, in high school, staying up till 5am like, we would fall asleep together on the phone and talk all night long. Do you think love is blind, Abby?

[Abby]

Don't ask. Don't put me on the spot like this. His. His argument was very compelling.

[Matt]

That was really good. Honestly, you're making me, like, change.

[Abby]

He's a lawyer.

[Bliss]

He's so good. I tried to argue with him.

[Matt]

I came ready to debate you, and then, like, as I was talking, I was like, gosh dang it.

[Abby]

I mean, I think that it's interesting hearing, like, even both of you, you're saying, like, it was like, the experiences that you had together, but it's so crazy because you guys had such a short amount of experiences before you had felt like love. So I. Yeah, I don't know. I think ultimately I believe that love is a choice, and so therefore it can be blind.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I believe in the choice part too.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I think the commitment is huge. And. And, like, that's such a critical part of love is like committing to another person, getting rid of the. Like, I. I think one thing that really holds back people from finding their person is this commoditization of dating. Treating dating like it's a purchase, right? Treating, you know, treating it like. Like people have these lists like they're buying a car, Right?

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And they're really not focused on expecting

[Bliss]

perfection when they're not. No one is perfect. Like, you're not perfect. Why would you expect other people to be perfect?

[Abby]

Like, the questions they're asking you, it sounds like on that survey, are very different than the questions dating apps are asking where they're like, what is your height preference? What is your income reference? Like, things like that. Whereas, like, that was very different. And it feels like, you know, as a franchise, like, what they're doing is very intentional and science and data backed,

[Bliss]

which is something I want to share before I forget the creator. I don't know how we're doing on time. But I want to share this. The creator of the show, he's clearly very brilliant, and he's created a lot of various dating shows, but his idea behind Love is Blind is that when you're in bed at night and the lights are off and you're just talking, that's kind of where that came from. That whole idea of, like, connecting this. Like, when you're laying in bed at night with the lights off, like, that's that where a lot of, like, deep connection can happen. And that's where the foundation of this is. Like, you know, when we're 90 years old, you know, you know, wrinkly maybe or whatever, and we're laying in bed together, the lights are off. We're not physically seeing each other, but, like, we're still each other. We're still connecting with who we. Each person is.

[Abby]

Your guards are down.

[Bliss]

Yeah.

[Abby]

It's easier to be vulnerable so that. That. Hey, I'm so. I'm convinced.

[Matt]

I'm convinced, too. Zach Bliss, thank you so much for coming on our show. Thank you for sharing your story. And again, congratulations.

[Abby]

Great redemptive birth and postpartum.

[Bliss]

Thank you. I really do for you guys, too. It's little. Little boys are so cute. I can't wait.

[Abby]

It's the best.

[Bliss]

And I hear they really love their moms, like, a lot.

[Matt]

So where are you guys most active? Where's the best place for people to connect with you guys?

[Bliss]

Instagram probably is our most active place.

[Zach]

Yeah, we have. We had a podcast that we were doing things on for a while, which was Blind Love.

[Bliss]

Yeah, it was actually called Blind Love, but we.

[Zach]

You know, we might bring it back.

[Bliss]

We might.

[Zach]

We'll talk about it. It's just the time that goes into it, you know, and being parents.

[Bliss]

I need a nanny anyway, but thanks so much for having us.

[Matt]

Of course. Thank you, guys.

[Bliss]

You guys are so cool, and we're really happy for your next little bundle.

[Abby]

Thank you.