Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys

Summary

The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: Parenting through Grief, Career vs. Motherhood, and Raising Confident Kids - with the Abbys

Date: January 9, 2026

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Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Abby and Addie (guest co-hosting for Abby’s sister-in-law) dive deep into the complexities of womanhood, motherhood, and family. The conversation weaves through the realities of parenting while grieving, balancing ambition and motherhood, young marriage, societal expectations, the cost of life choices, and raising resilient, confident children. The episode also features listener voicemails, facilitating thoughtful conversations on body image, finding motivation, and navigating the early days of pregnancy.

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Episode Structure

• Sharing "the hope and the hard"
• Viral TikTok trends ("Wow, that's crazy" segment)
• In-depth discussion: career ambitions vs. motherhood (sparked by Kelsea Ballerini’s vulnerable song)
• Marriage timing, young vs. older, and its effects
• Listener Q&A: body image, parenting through grief, and pregnancy advice

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1. Sharing “The Hope and the Hard”

(Timestamps: 03:56–09:18)

• Highs and lows check-in: Hosts acknowledge the importance of sharing both positives (“hope”) and challenges (“hard”) in their weekly lives.
• Postpartum sleep: Abby celebrates improved sleep with her kids (“I’m in a season where I’m sleeping really good and I feel guilty saying that.” [03:59]), while Addie talks about rougher nights with her 3-month-old.
• The struggles of January: Both discuss the “post-holiday blues” and the lack of motivation that January often brings. Abby reflects, “I feel like every single night recently, I’ve just been like, what did I really get done today?” [07:24]
• Small joys: Extended family visits and flexible work schedules offer points of gratitude.

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2. “Wow, That’s Crazy” Segment: Viral TikTok Food Trends

(Timestamps: 09:21–13:31)

• TikTok influencer Courtney Cook: Abby describes her obsession with the teacher-creator who eats "crazy" British-inspired lunches, inspiring millions to try odd food combos. ("I would, like, watch her videos, and I’m like, this is the most disgusting, bizarre combinations of food... But I want to do it." [10:32])
• Sweet potato trend: They discuss the viral nature of simple, quirky cooking content and its surprising appeal.
• Reflection: The segment offers a lighthearted pause and an invitation for experimentation and fun.

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3. In-Depth Discussion: Ambition, Motherhood, and the Myth of “Having It All”

(Timestamps: 13:37–45:15)

Spark: Kelsea Ballerini’s Song "I Sit in Parks" (14:00–17:21)

• Abby is deeply moved by the song about longing, gratitude, and the trade-offs of life’s choices:

  “I do feel like there’s this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden… and children are chains… She’s like, the line about they look at me and want my freedom as much as I want to be a mother. And I’m like, dang. I felt that in the past…” [16:12]

Key Themes Discussed:

• Cultural pressues & regrets:
  • It’s considered “frowned upon” to change your mind or have regrets (“I think in today’s culture, it’s very frowned upon if someone changes their mind on things… if people are like, you hypocrite... but we all change our minds or evolve” [17:23]).
  • Every decision has a cost; you cannot "have it all" at once.
• Career ambitions vs. motherhood:
  • Abby reflects on shifting from career-driven to embracing early motherhood out of necessity and how it rerouted her life for the better.
  • Addie shares the opposite, never having strong career ambitions and appreciating the fulfilment in her path to family life.
• The guilt and pride of working moms:
  • “My default is kind of going towards guilt. Usually I’m like, I’m not doing a good enough job, not doing enough for them... Sadie Robertson actually once totally changed this around for me...” [22:33]
  • Reframing work as a source of pride that can empower children, not just something to be “guiltily” hidden.
• Timing parenthood and family:
  • Risks and rewards of waiting vs. starting young – with empathy for those who wait and then struggle to build the family they dreamed about.
  • The realities of fertility, egg-freezing, and how parents’ ages influence family planning.

Notable Quote:

"My life started when I had kids. And like…having kids, having a job, a healthy marriage, all these things, has forced me to become a better, well rounded woman. And I’m so grateful for that." – Abby [20:00]

• Marriage as “a witness to your life”:
  • Advantages of growing up with a long-term partner (“I literally remember when you were a kid and I saw you become a man, and you saw me go from, like, become a woman. And we’ve had, like, this insane library of memories together…” [27:37])
  • Acknowledgment that there are pros and cons to both young and later-in-life marriage.

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4. Young Marriage: Advantages & Challenges

(Timestamps: 35:14–41:02)

Stat Highlights:

• Only 2% marry their high school sweethearts ([35:14]).
• Average age for women’s first marriage is now 28, men is 30. In 1960, it was 20 (women) and 22 (men).
• Average age for first-time mothers was 27 in 2023; 21 in the 1970s.

Pros:

• Easier to merge lives, fewer fixed routines/jobs, high tolerance for risk (“We just had no choice. That was a con. But there are so many pros… we learned so much from those experiences…” [39:03])
• Building trust and flexibility in partnership

Cons:

• Potential for identity crises; difficulty knowing where “you” end and the partnership begins (“I feel like I went through a little bit of an identity crisis… I have adapted and grown around you so much, and vice versa…” [36:37])
• Less financial stability and career experience at the start

Notable quote:

"It’d take a long time for newlyweds to catch up…you’ll never catch up to us.” [66:18]

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5. Listener Voicemails & Advice

(Timestamps: 52:45–65:35)

1. Motivation & Self-Image (Francesca)

(53:04–58:06)

• Advice:
  • Health, not just weight, is the best motivator—focus on feeling strong/energetic.
  • Find enjoyable, sustainable physical activity (group fitness suggested).
  • “You can’t hate the way you look or hate your body into changing. You have to love it into that.” – Abby [54:26]
  • Accept changing self-image as normal, especially in youth and postpartum years.

2. Parenting Through Grief & Depression (Kamari)

(58:07–62:41)

• Advice:
  • Don’t feel obligated to shield kids from your grief; it’s healthy for them to see you express emotion, in an age-appropriate way.
  • “I think you gave me this advice, Abby… you were like, it’s good for them to see you grieving…this is how kids start to learn how to cope with their own feelings…” [58:28]
  • Set small, achievable daily goals as a parent when struggling; improvement is gradual.

3. Finding Out You’re Pregnant

(63:05–65:01)

• Practical Steps:
  • Make an OB appointment (they’ll help calculate timing, first visits are at 8 weeks).
  • Start taking a prenatal vitamin.
  • Share the news with trusted family/friends for emotional support.
  • Embrace excitement, accept that waiting is part of the process.

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6. Final Thoughts: Contentment, Perspective, and Raising Confident Kids

(Timestamps: 65:07–end)

• Finding contentment:
  • “There’s a purpose for the season that you’re in as much as it doesn’t look like what you want it to be.” – Abby [51:03]
  • The baby/toddler years are short, even though they feel overwhelming. “You’re gonna have your life back in a couple years…”
• Empathy for all journeys:
  • Support for those struggling with infertility or life not going as planned.
  • “Our lives aren’t better than yours…it’s no different” [51:44].
• Modeling positivity about motherhood:
  • Recognize why public venting online can fuel negative perceptions of parenthood among non-parents. Instead, balance honesty with positivity (“That’s not the message that we want…” [49:10]).
• Selflessness & personal growth:
  • Sacrifice in marriage and parenting refines character and broadens emotional capacity (“Every single day in selflessness…that is really good, and it’s healthy, too.” [29:38])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You can’t hate the way you look or hate your body into changing. You have to love it into that.” – Abby [54:26]
• “My life started when I had kids.” – Abby [20:00]
• “Marriage is like choosing someone to be a witness to your life.” – Abby (paraphrasing podcast, [26:52])
• “If you’re dating and you just picture your whole life with this person, and you’re just like, ‘No, just not the right time’…just get married. Start your life. Get married.” – Abby [29:01]
• “If you get married young, you’re gonna…have sex a lot. You got a lot of practice time.” – Abby (humor, [65:50])
• On grief and parenting:

  “Don’t feel like you have to shield your kids from that…grieving can be really heavy…just do this thoughtfully but don’t feel like you have to hide it or bottle it up… they’re really smart no matter how young they are.” – Abby [58:28]

• “I just feel like I know a lot of women that have pushed off starting a family and…sometimes I just wonder…are they gonna be sad about that decision later? …I just feel sad for women that it is, like, a hard choice.” – Abby [25:24]

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Timestamps for Key Themes & Segments

• 03:56 — Hope & Hard: Sleep, postpartum fog, January blues
• 09:21 — “Wow, that’s crazy”: TikTok food trends
• 13:37 — Kelsea Ballerini’s song sparking the "motherhood vs. career" reflection
• 20:00 — Myth of “having it all”, societal pressures on moms
• 27:36 — The meaning of marriage, young vs. older
• 35:14 — Stats and reflection on young marriage, pros & cons
• 52:45 — Listener questions (body image, grief, new pregnancy)
• 65:50 — Lighthearted wrap-up: marriage pros, humor

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Tone and Takeaways

Warm, deeply personal, honest, and encouraging—with the signature “hope and the hard” balance. The episode nudges listeners to embrace their season, make choices true to themselves (even amid societal pressures), pursue motherhood and ambition in harmony, and above all to practice self-compassion and contentment whether waiting for or navigating marriage and children.

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode lays bare the raw, real, and beautiful tension of modern womanhood—from the tears of career trade-offs to the laughter of TikTok food trends and the gentle coaching through some of life’s hardest and most joyful moments.

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“And remember, we’re always here.”

Transcript

[Abby]

Today is why we wear the uniform. Abc Tuesday, the rookie returns to ensure the safety of all Angelenos.

[Addie]

Try not to mess it up.

[Abby]

I'll do my best, but don't do your best. Do my best. And for the first time ever, this is a global operation. It's an international sting. LAPD has agreed to help the FBI track down terrorist targets.

Nothing like a day in the job to remind you how quickly life can change.

Get out of there. The Rookie season premiere Tuesday, 10. 9 Central on ABC. Next day for Hulu subscribers.

I'm not showing up at all for my kids because I'm just so wrapped up in my own grief.

There's this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden. And, like, children are chains. I felt that in the past, this.

Is probably going to get cut, but when I was thinking about pros and cons to getting married, this is unhinged.

Found out I was pregnant, my business was failing, and I was like, dang. This is just not at all what I pictured my life to be like.

It'd take a long time for newlyweds to catch up.

You'll never catch up to us.

Oh, my God. Always here to share the hope and.

The hard with heart and humor.

Welcome back to Always Here with Abby and Abby. Is that how we're gonna do it? I like that. Okay.

I feel like this week has been crazy with the launch and the announcement and everything.

I know it's a big week. I'm really excited about it. And we just wanna say thank you also so much for all the excitement about it.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

You guys spoke, we listened, and it's been so fun. I literally think about this, like, all the time. I'm like, the fact that we get to call this working, but it's just hanging out with your sisters and just, like, having fun. Like, what a blessing this is.

[Addie]

I saw a comment that said that they're like, how fun is it that you guys get to just work and spend time together? I'm like, that's so true.

[Abby]

That's how I feel.

I feel like the buildup to the announcement in the first episode was so much work, like, anticipation, figuring everything out. Like, we were super intentional and serious about things, and I felt this pressure and, like, nerves. And now then we announced it, and then doing the first episode, I was like, okay, so hopefully. It just feels like, oh, like this breath has been released.

I'm ready to get into a rhythm with it.

Same.

And, like, also just connect with our, like, community more. Like, right now, it just Feels like this ambiguous, like thing. But now as we like start to build the community and like people are listening to it, it just makes it so much more rewarding and fun.

Totally. I was. I'm logged into the always here email and. And I've been getting the emails about all the voicemails coming through and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so many that come through. Really?

Yes. I'm excited. I'm excited too.

Does that go to your phone, Addy?

[Addie]

No, I just have it on my email.

[Abby]

Oh, okay.

[Addie]

I was gonna say I have it. Sorry. It goes straight to voicemail so they don't have to wait through like the tones of it and then they get your little jingle.

[Abby]

Smart.

Really quick. I wanted to hop in here to just say we produce this podcast for free to you guys. So I think it would just be a very kind gesture if you took the time right now 5 seconds to just hit, follow, subscribe heart. Like it basically just show whatever platform you're on that you enjoy our show and that you intend to come back. We would really, really appreciate that. And yeah, here's your five seconds. One, two, three, four, five. Okay, that's all. Thank you so, so much. We really, really appreciate it and thank you in advance. Let's get back to the show. Yeah. I think we like to start off every episode a little bit like just, just kind of saying what this is for. But our motto is to share the hope in the hard with heart and humor. And yeah, it'd be fun to share a little bit of hope and a little bit of something that isn't as fun maybe that we're dealing with in life. And so I have a hope, which I kind of feel bad saying, actually. I had two little versions of me on my shoulder. When I was thinking of mine this morning, I was like, it's not nice because I have two sister in laws with little babies that probably aren't sleeping.

But oh no, she's sleeping like a princess. How is that?

I'm in a season where I'm sleeping really good and I feel guilty saying that.

[Addie]

Guys. Yeah.

[Abby]

You can look at as a hope to your future.

[Addie]

I hope that you're sleeping. Well for our sake, you should be sleeping.

[Abby]

We hope that we're not sleeping. So we're not sleeping. Great. That was actually my hard.

I'm so sorry.

We're on the same wavelength.

I hate that. And I think the reason this feels so rewarding though is knowing, like where I've been and it's funny just Cause, like, the nature of my children. But it's like my oldest one is always the one that's gonna be. And he's surely in our room sleeping with us. But at least you're sleeping.

[Addie]

But at least you're sleeping.

[Abby]

I just hear the door creak. Cause we have his light set to turn a different color. So he has like, several light cues that happen in his room, but it turns blue after 11:30. So we can have, like, alone time and don't have to go to bed at 6, like 7 o' clock when he goes to bed. Yeah, but usually he wakes up somewhere like around 1 o', clock, and I just hear a little our door squeak. And he doesn't even say anything. He just scampers into his little mattress on the ground and goes right back to sleep. But because he's with us, he sleeps so late because he's just like, I'm just in mom and Dad's room. Sometimes he's awake just like, laying there. And then Augie is sleeping in because Griffin's not waking him up.

[Addie]

Wow.

[Abby]

So Griffin Woke up at 9:20 on Saturday morning.

Did you think you were like, are you okay?

I didn't think he was in there anymore. I thought Matt had gotten up with him. And I was just like, oh, what are you doing? He was asleep. I was like, oh, I. I just laid there awake.

But.

So I feel bad saying that, but maybe you guys can look to your future.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

No, I mean, I feel like with the newborn stage, it changes so often.

I don't get sad about it.

Yeah, I don't get that sad about it. Because at this point, Vivian's three months, she's trying to roll, and so the sleep has been really bad.

They sleep so much better when they can get on their bellies.

Yes, they do.

[Addie]

Brielle. When she gets on her belly, she cries. She's like, really get me back over. She sleeps on her side, though. Kind of weird.

[Abby]

That's cute. No, it's cute. Yeah. So I feel like when they go through those transition or milestone transitions, you just don't sleep very well. So I know it's. I know it's gonna be short.

3, 4, and 5. Those months are, like, pretty tricky.

Yeah. Get through it. Yeah, we'll get through it. But that was my hard. Was that the sleep? The last couple days hasn't been the best. And I feel like this postpartum, I'm coming out of a lot of the, like, hard things. And it's been feeling really good. But the brain fog has settled in and I just could not. Like, during the day, it's not that bad, but in the evenings I start to get tired. My thoughts do not form into sentences and I cannot think of words. And I'll look at Kilb and I'm like, what is that thing that I'm trying? And I'll, like, explain it and he'll have to tell me what I'm trying to say. So that has been a little. That's just been really heavy this week. And maybe just because it's been such a busy week with holidays and like the new year and everything, but, yeah, my brain is not working.

That's tough.

Yeah. But we'll get, you know, we'll get through it. It's just a short, short season.

My heart was not that serious, but I just genuinely hate the month of January. And now that we're in it, I'm like, I don't know what it is. I just have a really hard time, like, transitioning out of the month of December, I guess, like December. So I'm someone that, like, loves things. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And like, all exciting. And then January always feels like we gotta make our own fun. And sometimes kind of like I just feel like my motivation's low, my productivity's low. I feel like every single night recently, I've just been like, what did I really get done today? And I'm just like down on myself at the end of the night, every single night. And I'm like, I don't even like, I want to do more, but I actually can't get myself to, like, do more.

Isn't that called the post holiday blues or something? Because you're. You're so expended maybe from the holidays, and then you get into the January and you're just exhausted.

That's how I feel. And I want to. I want to be one of those people that like, kick starts the year, like, discipline. And I'm like, I don't want to. And I think part of it is that I'm not in any kind of routine. Like, I haven't been going to the gym. And I did go to the gym today. And I'm like, huh. Like, I feel like I got a little bit, like, back into me. But just in general, I need to just suck it up and just like, try to find fun things to do. In January, I'm planning a shower for Val.

Oh my God.

And so that's like, kind of getting me excited. I'm like, that's a fun thing to do. When, like, we need to.

Can I help you?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. It's gonna be Galentine's themed. A Little Sweetheart is On the Way.

I was gonna say we should call it Valentine's, but that's her.

That's actually a great idea.

[Addie]

I like it.

[Abby]

A Little Sweetheart is On the Way. Valentine's Day.

That's a cute theme.

I got it from Pinterest. I did not. I'm not creative in that way, like, with wordplay stuff.

No, no, me neither.

Well, I'll leave it to the Pinterest people. Fine.

Okay. I want to help you with that.

Okay. What's crazy?

Wow.

[Addie]

Wait, wait. What's your hope?

[Abby]

My hope?

Oh, yeah. Abby.

Gosh. Well, let's think about this. I only thought about my heart.

[Addie]

It's been that hard.

[Abby]

Well, my brain just isn't working. We've had so many friends come in town, which has been fun. And my parents are back, too. They do the snowbird thing, which is so fun. Yeah. And it's sweet. Just, I love anytime our parents or, like, my parents or Caleb's parents come in because CJ loves his grandparents so much, and it's so helpful when they're in town, too. That's definitely been a highlight.

That's good.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

That's my. That's my hope. Okay, should we move on to. Wow, that's crazy.

Wow, that's crazy.

Wow, that's crazy. That's crazy. This has become the new TikTok viral sensation, and I am currently obsessed. Obsessed.

I have genuinely no clue. I know.

[Addie]

We should try it after the episode.

[Abby]

We should.

We'll make a video of us trying. That's a good idea, Addie. Okay, this Tick Tock girl, her name's Courtney Cook. She is the cutest gal ever. She looks like a who, which she says is a compliment. Not with, like, her nose. Like, she just has the sweetest, cutest little. Like, she's just so cute. Okay. Anyway, she got famous on Tick Tock. I think she's grown over a million followers within the last month that I've watched. She has over 2 million followers. And she does the craziest lunches and meals of all time. But they're not crazy to her. But I stopped on her videos the first time. It's called a Plowman's Lunch. She teaches British history. Pretty sure. And a Plowman's Lunch is basically like a. A really random charcuterie board of stuff, like raw vegetables and random chunks of cheeses and breads and boiled potatoes, weird onions. And she'll just eat them.

Like, really weird onions.

I would, like, watch her videos, and I'm like, this is the most disgusting, bizarre combinations of food and, like, the weirdest way to eat these foods. But I want to do it. And her responses to them are just. It's so amazing.

The lady who did the chicken sausage in the cottage cheese and mustard.

I don't know. I didn't see that. Okay, but maybe if that was like, Dino.

[Addie]

No, but I just put the video on your iPad so you can take a look at it.

[Abby]

The one that's gone really crazy is her sweet potato trend, where she. She roasts a sweet potato and she stuffs cheese inside of it and then just eats it, like, out of her hand like a hot dog. I don't. It's so crazy.

What is this? Cheese?

Definitely butter kase cheese.

What does she do for work?

She's a teacher.

Oh, cute.

So she has a whole series of teachers lunches.

Okay, I'm not mad. Oh, my God. So cute.

That's so gross. Had a potato like this last night.

I love that she loves this.

She is such an endearing person to watch. That is the lunch that has gone so viral.

Really.

People love to watch her eat this. And everyone's trying this concoction of super.

And do people like it?

They love it.

[Addie]

That's why I want to try it.

[Abby]

I want to try it. We should do it for a video. It would be super fun.

Okay, let's try it. It's so.

And just the way that she eats things, I've been inspired to eat things. Raw vegetables. I'm like, oh, I can just eat a bell pepper like an apple. Sure. I'll. I did it.

[Addie]

You did it?

[Abby]

Well, with ranch, but yeah, kind of. No, I did slice it. I didn't eat it like an apple.

That's how she eats it.

She just eats the most random raw vegetables. Like, she'll take green onions. I took a video of it.

Green onions.

Green onions. You just started.

[Addie]

Ew. It's crazy. I.

[Abby]

There's a video. Val, our friend Val. We're talking about her again.

She knows about her? Yes.

I brought her up and she was like, me and her husband, or not me, her and her husband were watching her videos at night before bed. And there was a video of her eating the dumplings at 7am she loves soup dumplings. She puts them in these onion cups and puts soup dumplings in them and then tops them with mayo and soy sauce and seeds and all kinds of stuff. And then she puts the whole Onion cup in her mouth, and she just goes, mmm. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh, I want to eat that. Never have I wanted to eat a raw onion cup in my life.

This is so funny to me. This is like. I love. I'm fascinated by what people eat, but I think this is fascinating. This beautiful became a trend. Oh, she's.

She's absolutely bloomed.

Bloomed. She's not gonna be a teacher anymore.

No.

[Addie]

All of her food looks so good. I'm looking at her page.

[Abby]

It does sound good. Eating plain green onions.

[Addie]

I'm trying to look for that video.

[Abby]

A lot of British food, so it's a lot of stuff that I've never heard of. It's just so random. But she's just such bizarre combinations that I want to try.

Gosh, you guys got me sold.

And the comments, always hilarious. They're like, yeah, this is what I eat when I try to clean out my fridge or, you know, leftovers. That's just how she said.

[Addie]

I just know that no food is wasted in your household, Literally.

[Abby]

Well, that's funny.

I know.

I want to try it.

She is the. I am always like, gotta stop my TV shows on. That's how I feel with her.

Really?

Yeah.

That's fun. I like that. Yeah, that's wholesome.

That's her. Wow. That's crazy. That is crazy, because what she eats is truly crazy.

It's really crazy.

The next segment I thought we could talk about. This is like. I feel like last episode, we talked about goals. It was kind of fun and tiffy. But this episode, Caleb showed me the Kelsey ballerini song I sit in parks, and I have not cried listening to a song since maybe I was a little child. This song is so beautiful, and I feel like it's just such a good conversation for us to have. Yeah. You listen to the song?

Yeah. You sent it to me, and you were like, I haven't cried since listening. So I was like, I'm scared. My immediate reaction was like, I'm not gonna listen to it, because if you cry, then it's gonna make me cry. But I listened to it, and it didn't make me cry, but it is like I was just blown away by her. What's the word I'm gonna say? I was gonna say humility, but, like, vulnerability. Yeah, vulnerability in this. Like, in writing a song like this, Especially from, like, some. So, okay, so she made her career huge, basically. Is this true? From her divorce album.

[Addie]

That was when I first knew her, so I think that's when she first became, like, more, she went on call her Daddy, and I think that really, like, pushed her career.

[Abby]

Well, it wasn't Color daddy recently.

[Addie]

No. She went on when they got her divorce, which was a while ago.

[Abby]

Oh, okay.

So since that was, like, her divorce was such a big part of, like, her, like, rising to fame, I think this song comes as, like, it's even more impactful then, because. Okay, so wait, should you play the song, or do you wanna. Yeah, I don't think we can play this.

Yeah, we can't play. I do want to listen to it again just to have, like, the fresh thoughts from it, but I. Let's just play it, and we can keep talking about it.

Don't cry right now.

[Addie]

I literally.

[Abby]

I listened to it this morning again, and I almost cried again.

Oh, my gosh. I know.

I've never touched, like, that.

I am. Gosh.

I feel like for the first time I heard it, the first time I heard it, I was like, dang. I feel so sad and grateful at the same time.

[Addie]

Mm.

[Abby]

That is such a. Honest. And shoot, it's gonna make me cry. And maybe it's like, being almost 30 and having two kids, it's like, man, I just feel grateful. I think it just put in perspective, like, dang, these are the years. And, like, I have two kids, and I take them to the park with Caleb, and, like, it just feels like this really sweet time of my life. And I was like, wow, I'm very grateful for that. I'm also sad that, like, these years are short with the little kids, but also, like, I felt very sad that. I do feel like there's this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden. And, like, you can't live this, like, amazing life. And, like, children are chains. And she's like, the. The line about they look at me and want my freedom as much as I want to be a mother. And I'm like, dang. Like, I. I felt that in the past. Like, Caleb and I. Let me get it together for a second. Like, when we found out that we were pregnant with cj, My oldest, that was a very much a surprise. I was 26 when I got pregnant. I had started a business that I had ran for five years with him that Caleb had come on and joined. And at the time that I got pregnant, like, the business was failing. I had all these big goals and dreams. I was like, I'm gonna be a businesswoman. All this stuff. So I had, like, found out I was pregnant, my business was failing, and I Was like, dang, this is just not at all what I pictured my life to be like. And I felt scared. I felt. Yeah, I just felt a lot of these things. And now I look back, and I'm like, dang, I'm so glad that we were able to start our family when we did. Mm.

Yeah.

I just. I felt all those emotions.

Yeah.

When I heard that.

Yeah. I think the thing that, like, I respect the most in her writing this song is that she. First of all, I think in today's, like, culture, it's very, like, frowned upon. If someone changes their mind on things, I don't really understand why that is or if other people feel that way, but if people are like, you hypocrite, it's like, yeah, we all, like, change our minds or we evolve, or we, you know, wish we would have done things differently. I feel like regret is also something that is, like, kind of like you're not supposed to have regrets, which obviously, like, you can't let your regrets chain you back or hold you down. But I think it's really admirable that she's willing to just, like, publicly be like, yeah, I'm wondering if I made the right decision, or, like, everyone can look at me and, like, envy where I'm at right now, but do they know that I'm envying them back? And I think that takes a lot of. That takes so much bravery. And it's. It's also. I think the other thing that. The thing that stood out to me most in listening to this song is that her acknowledging that, like, her decision had a cost, because I feel like a lot of the times this. This maybe is an American thing, probably, where it's like, you can have it all, you can be it all, you can do it all. And I feel like this messaging is. I. I hear it more geared towards, like, moms like you. You can do it all. You can have it all. You can have the career. You can be the best mom. You can do all these things. And I also think that women have a unique pressure to, like, I feel, like, just naturally. I don't know if everyone feels this way, but, like, there's always this, like, quiet voice. It's like, you're not enough. You're not doing enough. You're not, you know, meeting the standards that you need to do. Like, there's more you can do and comparison all this stuff. And so her acknowledging, like, every decision has a cost is refreshing. I told you when we started talking, when you sent that song to me, it reminded Me of Danny Austin, who's like another creator and also like mega business owner. Her admitting that she like, in her own words, she said something about like, how she blew up her life, like, trying to have it all. And for me as a listener hearing that, it felt like a deep sigh of relief because it's just not true that you can have it all. And it doesn't mean that one decision is right and one decision is wrong. It doesn't mean that career is wrong and motherhood immediately is right or vice versa. Like, it just means that there's a cost and you have to kind of weigh those constantly. I feel like that's what motherhood is like. We're both working moms and I feel like I'm always kind of on this teeter totter of like, how do we balance that? And like what. And which, like, what cost is too great where we need to make adjustments and then this benefit, I'm not seeing it here. So then we got to make adjustments the other way. I don't know if that makes sense.

No, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I would agree. It's so the balance is hard. And I feel like I was, I was totally bought that live, like, oh, I can have it all as a kid. And I feel like I, I reach for that for a really long time and I don't know, I think I get sad hearing that video because I think that there is that narrative that like, women think, oh, my life talked about this before, but my life is going to stop when I have kids. And I don't think that that's true at all. You know, it like, looks different and like you're saying we have to adjust things around, but I don't know, it's like, man, the, the. My life has started when I had kids. And like, even with work, it's like being a mom has made me more efficient, it's made me work harder. It's made me want to like, balance my time better. Like, I feel like all around having kids, having a job, like a healthy marriage, all these things, like, has forced me to become a better, well rounded woman. And I'm so grateful for that. And yeah, it's not like, oh, I can go be this. I don't know, it's so hard. I don't know what I'm trying to say.

No, I think it makes sense. And also hearing from your perspective too, like, you were career driven at one point. You had these like, high aspirations in like the career area and like, you still do, but it's like, I almost feel like there's maybe two different people listening to this podcast. Because for me, like, I actually never had career ambitions like I did before I got married. And then I feel like when I got married, I was just like, well, when are we having kids? Cause then I like, can't. I felt like you said I felt like I couldn't start my life until I had kids. Cause that was kind of like my tunnel vision. Like, I was like, gotta have kids, gotta have kids. It's like, I don't know why. Literally, it was just made that way. Like, literally in high school, I remember just being like, whose babies can I watch all the time? And I just felt like I couldn't get. I feel like that time, three years after getting married, I was just like, which isn't a good place to be either. Like, I feel like there's a good thing to be said about contentment and also just like, yeah, enjoying early marriage and not rushing into all that stuff. But because I didn't have huge career ambitions, I feel like it's like women have to decide, right? Like, what are you gonna do? You gonna be a mom or are you gonna be a working lady? And it's like, oh, gosh, totally. That's a tough place to be. And then I feel like a lot of women too, they go into the career field and they're really excited and passion. They get pregnant, have a baby, and they're like, I actually don't care about any of that anymore. And so, like, there's that too.

Totally.

There's so many different aspects of it. But on the angle of like being a working mom, I thought, like, I used to something. Sadie Robertson actually once totally changed this around for me. But I used to feel every time I had to do something for work and be away from the kids, I would like, literally try to condense everything jam packed, which I already condense it to part time. But like, I would literally, like, be like, okay, maybe what can I get done in one hour? Like, and try to get everything done. Then I would just be super stressed the whole time and try to never be away. And I felt really guilty. My default is kind of going towards guilt. Usually I'm like, I'm not doing a good enough mom, not doing enough for them. And something she said is, I'm gonna butcher it. So I'm not even gonna try to quote it. But something about taking pride in what you do for work gives your kids confidence too and how that can also serve them. So now when I Talk about it. I'm very intentional. I'm like, I'm gonna go work, and you're gonna do fun stuff with grandma. Things like that.

[Addie]

And.

[Abby]

And then now they talk to me about it. They're like, oh, you're gonna go to work, and I'm gonna play with honey, or I'm gonna go do this activity. I'm like, yeah. And I think it's really cool that my kids also can see me as their mom having this role in providing for the family. And also we talk about the purpose of work and working hard, too. And I feel like it's good that they see their mom having this role as well. And not that it's only in the career realm, but also within the house, but I don't know, it's helped me just be more intentional with my work and my role as a mom and, like, how I talk about it more, because I felt, like, really weird. Like, I had to, like, be vague about it. Like, I was like, I'll be right back. Like, I was. Now I'm just like, oh, I'm gonna go work. And I don't know. I just feel like, for some reason, that didn't click for me in the beginning.

Totally. I get why, like, there's so many. I. I get why there's so many opinions across the board of this, and I understand why women want to wait. Especially, like, if you go to school, you go to higher education, you spent all this time and money, and then you go into the career field, and it's like, I don't want to just blow all that away, because I think people do probably assume that, like, once they have kids, they won't want to work anymore, and that will shift in their life. And I understand that is, like, a really hard thing for women to, like, tussle with and, like, make that decision on. But then, yeah, there's also the flip side of the coin where, like, we have these jobs where we can work from home, which is nice, and, like, we can kind of do our hours how we need to. To, like, focus on our family the most. But it is hard when these early years, like, you. These are the. What do they say? Like, your kids are most impressionable from one to three. That's when you have the most influence on their life, or one to five. So it's like, you want to give them as much as you can in these first three to five years. So I get why that's hard. Where women want to wait, where they're like, okay, I've done The career thing, and I want to do it, but then I feel this, like, sadness for a lot of women that do wait, and then there are, like, complications or, you know, different things. And it's like, you never want to say that in a way that's going to fear monger women until, like, wanting to have kids earlier or whatever.

Yeah.

But it's just, like, a reality of things sometimes. And I just feel like I know a lot of women that have pushed off starting a family and, like, could have the opportunity to make it work well. And sometimes I just wonder. I'm like, dang, are they gonna be sad about that decision later? Which. It's okay, you know, But I just feel like we have been sold this slide. Like, oh, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait. And, like, I feel like I've thought that, like, I always thought I'd wait till, like, 30s to have kids and, like, do the career thing for a long time. I just feel so grateful that that wasn't the case because I feel like I have been able to fortunately figure out a way to do both, like, have work and be a mom. And I feel like it's just. It's been the greatest gift upon my life. Yeah. I don't know. I just feel sad for women that it is, like, a hard choice. Yeah, it's super hard.

Well, and I think on the flip side of it, too, is that I think, like, people waiting to have kids or people are also waiting to get married, which we obviously didn't. And I, like, have just been. That also started the conversation of, like, young marriage, like, where it was like, okay, because also she's not married anymore. And like, when she says, like, God damn it, he loves her, I feel like there's, like, this, like, longing to, like. What was the quote? There's some podcasts that Matt and I always talk about where someone's, like, marriage is like, choosing someone to be a witness to your life.

[Addie]

Mm.

[Abby]

And. And we. I just, like, think about that a lot. I'm like, that's. How do I say this?

It would just. It'd be hard for you to imagine.

It'd be hard for me to imagine, like, going through life without someone intimately knowing everything that's happening. My thoughts, like, what I'm going about my day. Gosh, like, what my one stop shake order is like. It's like someone that just, like, knows you so intimately. Like, one person that, like, that would probably feel. I can imagine that. Where that could feel lonely, where it's like, it's not Even the fact that he, like, he. Like, this. This family she's looking at, that he loves her, but that, like, he knows her and that they're, like, in each other's lives. I don't know. And so I don't know where I'm going with this, but just thinking about, like, life, how it looks so differently depending on when you enter into marriage.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Because, I mean, we're very. I got married at 20, which is crazy now saying that. Yeah. But just thinking about how Matt and I were actually just talking about this. I was like, matt, I literally know you so well. I was like, I literally remember when you were a kid and I saw you become a man, and you saw me go from, like, become a woman. And we've have, like, this insane library of memories together that, like, I can't imagine even now at 27. How old am I?

I don't know.

This is actually real. I stopped aging at 25. In my head, I thought, aging at.

23, which is much too young to.

Stop aging every time. I'm like, well, I'm 25. And I'm like, nope.

I know. I can tell people I'm young, 20s, and, like, I'm literally 29. And that's the oldest 20. You could possibly be the oldest 20.

You're the oldest 20. But I was like, the fact that, like, we have some friends that are single and they're dating right now, like, gosh, they have to fill them in on, like, you also can't really. That's. There's something so unique about, like, having that type of history by that age that it's, like, it's really special. So that's not to say one's right or one's wrong. Like, I feel like this is just something that was, like, unique about young marriage. It's like, gosh, we literally have so many. So much history.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Like, by the age of 27.

Totally.

Which is wild.

I guess what we would. I imagine who we're speaking to right now are those people that are, like, they've been dating for five years. They know they're going to get married, but they put the brakes on. I'm like, just get married. Start your life. Like, get married.

Have kids.

Like, you can make it work. Like, I feel like that's my charge, and I feel like that's. There's obviously a million perspectives on this discussion, and they're not all. There's no right or wrong. But, like, that's my point of view. I'm like, dang, just do It. Because it's so fun to, like, live your life with someone. It's so fun to have kids. It's just such a special. I don't know. It's just such a special.

It's really rewarding.

It's so rewarding.

And like, obviously people look at marriage and kids as like, such a sacrifice, because it is. But making those sacrifices also has, like a way of like refining you as a person where it's like, I don't know. It has completely changed how I view, like, honestly, everything in life, both of those things. And it's just a big. It's just a practice every single day in selflessness. And I think that's the thing that we have to counteract the most as humans. I feel like our nature is like, very selfish, which kind of have to be. Gosh, there's probably some evolutionary reason you had to be selfish if you're a pack. But anyway, it is a practice every single day in selflessness. That is really good. And also it's healthy too. I don't know.

I respect Kelsey in this song. I'm like, I'm sure she made that decision to like, get divorced to not have kids because she wanted to pursue being selfish for a little bit and her dream. And like, she knew it'd be a cause. Like she wouldn't be able to have a child important to a child.

No, it makes sense. Like, that was the cost. Yeah. She was like, weighed it and she was like, yeah, yeah, this isn't what I want. Down the line. Totally. And well, that's what she thought. And actually I noticed in this that listening that's on gen. She literally says what I want.

[Addie]

She.

[Abby]

It's like she changed. Like she just fully changed her mind. She said that's what she wants.

Totally.

Which is interesting. Do we know what her ex husband's up to?

[Addie]

He's dating a new person now and she was just dating Chase Stokes and they recently broke up.

[Abby]

The guy from Outer Banks?

[Addie]

Yeah. They did it for like two years.

[Abby]

Oh, damn.

[Addie]

And an interesting thing is that she froze her eggs. So she.

[Abby]

I know a lot of.

[Addie]

She was married to her ex husband, so I think she was always planning to have kids a little later. Or maybe he didn't. I don't know the when. Yeah, they were planning on having kids, but she froze her eggs. So that's also interesting in relation to the song is that she has eggs. When you're thinking about getting older, having those eggs but not being ready to like get pregnant yet, I guess that might Be another thing. People are having kids later because they know they can freeze their eggs. Like that's a more common thing.

[Abby]

Now wait, why do you wait, they.

[Addie]

I'm dumb, am I? Am I dumb?

[Abby]

So wait, if you. No, no, no. So you can't have kids though after you've gone through menopause, right?

[Addie]

No.

[Abby]

Even if you've frozen your eggs?

Yeah. No, because.

But are they thinking that these eggs are healthier eggs cuz they're like younger eggs than when they would have them in their.

Yeah, well, it's like as you get older every year you have less eggs.

[Addie]

So maybe if you have. You're having trouble getting pregnant, you can use your old. Your frozen eggs.

[Abby]

Yeah. So they don't have to do an egg retrieval then and then start that.

Well, you just don't. You know, you aren't women born with the amount of eggs that they always have. Like we're born in the womb, we're created. But you only as many one a month. But no, it's like your body has multiple. But only one gets.

[Addie]

She froze her eggs when she turned 30.

[Abby]

I just think when people go through.

IVF, this actually brings up a bigger.

Conversation that we don't know anything about women.

Yeah, I don't think we drop multiple eggs, but.

No, we don't drop multiple eggs. But like when people do IVF in their cycle and they can extract multiple.

Yes.

Oh, they might have 11 this cycle and then like 50 the next. Like that are available. Is that not right? Viable? I don't know.

But see, this is something we also need to work on.

You have more when you're younger.

Okay.

So if you freeze them, you have a higher chances of them being successful later on.

Okay, well that's. That is interesting. Well, I guess she's 32.

Yeah, she's.

She can still do this thing.

Totally.

[Addie]

She says to find the person that.

[Abby]

She wants to have something Caleb and I talk about a lot because my mom and dad were much older when they had kids. My mom started. She had my older sister at 30, waited five years, had me at 35 and then had my little sister when she was almost 40. So they like really space him out and stuff.

[Addie]

But your mother looks great.

[Abby]

Yeah, my dad turned 70 this year.

Wow.

Wait. Yeah, no, I'm sorry, he's 69 this year. He'd be really sad if I said that. But yeah, there I have older, older parents on the older side and like Kilman were talking about this. If we want four kids and we didn't want to do four under four. And I was 31, 32. Like, that just really changed your timeline on things, because I'm like, I don't want to be pregnant back to back to back to back. If I wouldn't have any space and time in there. You think you're pregnant for nine months, then you're postpartum for a year. That's a long time, you know? And then maybe you want to, like, have a little bit of an age gap between your kids. So I feel like that's something that, I don't know, I didn't think about before having kids. You know, it comes quick. It comes so fast. And those years are not, you know, if you start having kids later, you're probably. I think that's why the average of kids has gone down. Like, most families just have two.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Probably because they start later.

[Addie]

So getting married, the average for men is 30 and women is 28. That's a.

[Abby]

That's younger than I thought it was gonna be.

[Addie]

Yeah, that's a. As of 2023, in 1960, it was at 22 for men and 20 for women. So it's changed that much.

[Abby]

Oh, my goodness. That's crazy.

Wow, that is crazy.

[Addie]

The average age for women for their first birth in 2023 was 27.

[Abby]

Okay.

That's when I had gave birth.

You were the average.

Talking about you guys, in 1970s, it was 21.

[Addie]

So it's changed since. Since then. I also think one interesting thing about you guys is you both are married to your high school school sweetheart. And you know what percentage that is? It's about 2% of people get married to their high school sweetheart, man. And so you guys, Both of the 2% of America, you guys are both in that situation, which is interesting. So you've dated your husband for a long time. You've been with him for a while.

[Abby]

Yeah, 12 years for Caleb and I. I feel like I have to be careful sometimes talking about these subjects because I do feel like I've been very privileged in this area.

Like, I lack perspective.

Yeah. I'm like. I definitely probably, like, just marry them. I know. Have kids early. You. I'm like, dating, you know, But I understand dating is super hard.

That means we could bring up the cons of dating and marrying young. I got some cons. I feel like I went through a little bit of an identity crisis. I feel like it hit right after we had our first kid where I was like, I just remember one morning, I was like, I like my eggs scrambled. And I was like, it Was like, a big proclamation because we had been eating over easy eggs for, like, two years. And I was like, I like him scrambled. And then I was just like, and I like cheese. Like, I just started to think of, like, all the things where I was like, man, we have just, like, I have adapted and, like, grown around you so much, and him vice versa. But I was like, gosh, where would I be independent of you? Like, what decisions would I have made? Like, And I think that it's not like, it's. It's not like, oh, gosh, the grass is greener on the other side of this. But it did come to a point where I was like, my gosh, I've literally become an adult with you. Like, I formed around you. We formed around each other. Like, what would I be like?

What.

In this alternate life? Like, what would I even be like? And so I feel like it did kind of cause, like, a little bit of, like, what is happening? Like, what do I. Like, where do I. Like, what is happening? I don't know. And so I do think that other people that get married young feel this way, too, because I feel. We brought it up on a podcast one time. I think other people were like, yeah, like, that's great, and it's awesome. But then there's certain times where I'm just like, what would it. What would I have been like if I had been single in my twenties until I was, like, at least the average of, like, 28. What was it, 27?

[Addie]

I can't even imagine that.

[Abby]

I can't imagine it either.

[Addie]

I don't know who I would be.

[Abby]

That's what. That's what made me spiral.

[Addie]

That. I don't want to think about that, actually.

[Abby]

No, but it did kind of. I was like, like, my egg scrambled. And then it was just, like, so interesting. I was like, you know, and then I started to think. I was like, I don't cook with cheese because I live with you. And I just started to think. I was like, we do this for our job. We live here. And it was like we had agreed on all of those decisions together, and we were excited about them, but it just comes. I feel like there was a time where it just all caught up to me. I was like, what would I be like?

Totally.

And I think that that is something interesting.

Yeah.

A pro. Is that it was really easy to adjust to marriage because we didn't know any differently.

You didn't have an identity.

We had no money. We had no money. And so. So, like, the financial transition, the life Transition was actually really easy. Like, I don't remember having any, like, major hiccups. Cause I was just like, yeah, yeah.

You didn't have any, like, routines that you were set in or.

Yeah, you were a stable job that I was like, I need to be here for this job. Like, we were just very flexible. Like, everything was. I was in college. Like, everything was so flexible at that time. Everything was so low stakes. Whereas, like, say, I had been with my job and they're, like, wanting to transfer me to a different state. State. And I was like. Like, that would have been, like, a logistical problem more than anything, but. And then you do have to make decisions, like, what's more important at this point? And so, like, everything was just really low stakes at that point. So that was a really easy transition. I was like, yeah, everything's fine, for sure.

I was gonna say the same similar thing. I. We have a very high tolerance for risk, Caleb and I do, because our whole twenties were just risky. Like, we had nothing. We didn't have careers. We didn't, you know, like, stable careers. We just had no money, which is a con. I remember I was listening to some of your unplanned podcast episodes, and you're talking about how disciplined we were with our money. And I was like, we just had no choice.

We just had no choice.

And so that was a con. But there are so many pros to that, too, where I feel like I.

Did have a choice, though. A lot of people go into serious debt.

Yes, we did.

So you did have a choice.

Thank you. We also did have a choice to get normal jobs, and we chose not to. So we did choose to stay poor, if you're curious. We used to have a clothing boutique that I started in college, and then Caleb and I ran that together. And that was five years. I kind of touched on that earlier. And then we had a really bad, like, season where we lost all the money. And, yeah, it was really hard. There was a year we made combined $37,000. Combined. That's no money. That's really low.

[Addie]

It was hard in Kansas City, Missouri.

[Abby]

No, that was when we lived in Phoenix. That's why we had to move, because we couldn't afford our rent.

[Addie]

Even more. Yeah, bad.

[Abby]

It was really.

Yeah. High living, low income.

Dang it.

But we. We learned so much from those experiences, and I feel like that helped shape us as we become adults. We're, like, not afraid to take risks because we lived these lives where, yeah, it was low stake or we kind of had to make hard decisions. A lot of the times, and if we lost everything we had, we knew that we'd be okay. Like, we could figure it out. It kind of made us a little scrappy. Mm. So I feel like there's so many fun things like that, and I think.

You build so much trust. Like, you're not gonna take risks with someone that you don't trust. But, like, when you have all this history, it's like, you've shown up for me every time. Like, we can do this together. And, like, you know that. You know your person's gonna be with you and gonna be along for the ride no matter what.

Totally.

Like, that's a major advantage too.

Totally. Yeah. We didn't have those 20s where we, like, go and travel the world and do all these fun Instagram things, but hopefully we get that in our 30s.

We said we're gonna go clubbing when we're in D nesters.

We'll go with you.

So our wildest.

[Addie]

The Ellen Pompeo video. I kind of just wrote out exactly what she said. I think it's actually really.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Addie]

Sweet, what she says.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Addie]

You wanna say it? Yeah, I'll say it.

[Abby]

Wait, what's Ellen Pompeo?

[Addie]

Grey's Anatomy.

[Abby]

Oh, that's what you said?

[Addie]

Yeah, that's what she said. I wrote it out because I thought it was. I listened to it, and I was like, wow, this is, like, really cool. Especially being a new mom on my end, but especially being a working mom and figuring out how to do that. You cannot be a mother and have children and give 100 to your job. It is a part of you that is somewhere else. You split into different pieces. You are no longer just you. You know what it does? It gives you more soul. Richer, funnier, more empathetic, angrier. It gives you a range of emotions you can't even imagine having. Without this person, you will be yourself times a thousand. You will just be a better version of yourself. It doesn't matter that you can't give a hundred percent to this, because, by the way, we are as women, we evolve. But if it's something that you want, it will only make you better. I am so much better for having children.

[Abby]

That's so good. I feel like she kind of clarified what we were saying about you can't have it all. Like, you can't give 100 of your all to work and do, like, the crazy grind, hustle culture, culture, and give 100 to your kids. Like, there's got to be a given. A tank and a take. I do Think like obviously we're examples of you could be working moms. And I know a ton of women, like I know women that in med school that have had kids and families and like they make it work, you know?

Yeah. I mean my mom was a full time working mom my entire life.

Yes.

And I think of her as nothing but present and attentive to our needs. Like totally. It's not. But yeah, you just have.

There's gonna be gives with work and your. Your number one cannot be your job. I feel like when you have kids.

It'S cuz we're limited. Like you're literally just. You cannot.

Yes.

[Addie]

I think that's one thing you said to Abby too is you said that your marriage is above your career too. Yes. Your kids are above your career, but your marriage also is as well.

[Abby]

Yeah. That was actually something that the we brought up when we were talking about the song too. Is that Matt and I consciously like we. So we went into college to be theater performers, actors, whatever that meant. And I was just laughing about that this morning because I was like, Matt, realistically things were going to change anyway, but early on we're like, you know, this is like what we were going to school for. Like this was the dream. Right. And so then after one semester we had talked to like a lot of our professors, which a lot of them had ended up going into teaching like acting or whatever their, their class was or subject was because they were like, yeah, I wanted to have kids and I want to have a family or like they're like, I toured. I was in a tour in Asia and my partner was over overseas for nine months a year and we were just like, oh, like that's, that's pretty. That's. I don't know if we wanted to make that sacrifice. And so very consciously after one semester we were like, yeah, it's more important that we're together and we can prioritize us. And like we already knew then that we wanted to get married and like soon. So we're like, we want to just prioritize this marriage, like our marriage over career. And I think it was really good for us to make that decision really early on because it just made everything else really easy, honestly. And let me tell you, people were like worried in my life, like, Abby, you're gonna give this up? Like this is like you really like you've done this since you were in second grade. Like you were really like shooting for this. And I just remember just being like, I didn't, I didn't grieve. It, which that doesn't mean that some people won't make sacrifices, that they were like, this was hard, and I really miss it. And, like, to this day, like, I still love theater, and I still, like, miss, like, Matt and I saw Wicked Live, and nobody told you that. We, like, literally sobbed, both of us, when the opening number came in, because it just, like, brought something awake inside of us. We're like, oh, I, like, miss that passion, that time of our lives. But, like, to consciously make that handoff early on, like, it was pretty different. And I think people were like, what? But it made everything really easy because we're like, well, yeah, that's. If that's the cost, I don't want to pay it. And, yeah, I think that a lot of things in life are like that. Yes. So that to say, like, me saying, like, you can't have it all is like, you cannot. You yourself are a hundred percent. You can't give 100% to everything. And if you do, you're just going to feel like you're just gonna constantly be beating yourself up. Yeah. That doesn't mean you don't work. That doesn't mean you don't have kids. That just means that you are constantly in this tension. Totally. And that's part of it.

I don't know why that feels, like, controversial to say.

Really?

I don't know. I don't. I mean, I don't think it is, but I feel like people will be like, if I say, you're a mom, you shouldn't give 100 to your job over your kids. Like, I feel like that is, like, a universally. Like, if the man was like, I'm a workaholic, he doesn't give a time to his kids, I think everyone would be like, you're a jerk. But then when a mom. When a woman wants to say that, I feel like people are like, no work.

You could do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true.

And I just don't actually think that that's normal. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

[Addie]

I feel like. I feel like I'm navigating that right now of, like, working and being. I actually feel the most guilty when I'm with her and working rather than.

[Abby]

Repeating with someone else.

[Addie]

I'm like, it's so. I feel so much better when I know she's with someone who can give them their freedom, full attention, and hang out with her and play with her, and then I can give my full attention to work for a little bit of time and Then I feel so much better on all aspects.

[Abby]

I think it's because they're so little. They don't understand that, like, exactly what's happening. So it's like, why is my mom here? And, like, not playing with me? Like, I think about that sometimes, and I feel like now just, like, having that conversation, I'm just like, I'm working. And, like, then they're, like, super good with it.

Yes.

But, yeah, I think that's just a tension that I'll live in constantly be evaluating, and that's okay. And it's gonna change and it's gonna look differently. But to summarize this, like, Abbey was saying, if you're dating and you're like, you just picture your whole life with this person, and you're just like, no, just not the right time. Or, like, I need to do X, Y, and Z first. I don't know. I think the timeline is here nor there. I remember that being a huge thing when we got married. Cause everyone's like, you have to at least graduate college first. And I was like, no, no, we're not going to. And, yeah, Matt never graduated, so it was still not.

I never felt ready. Like, I did not feel ready to have kids, and then I had kids, and I was like, oh, you just get ready. You just figure it out. You make it work. And so if that's your thing where you're just like, I just don't feel ready. Don't feel ready. Just have trust in yourself that you are resilient and you can do it. And if that's something you want in the future, my encouragement is to just pull the trigger.

Yeah. And it's. Having kids is actually great. Like, I feel like there's a lot of. That's the thing that's hard. I keep. I keep quoting these other things, but remember the thing that was, like, huge with, like, Chapel Roan, which. I hope she don't mean any hate to her, but I honestly think I.

Just disagreed with her.

But, no, she said all of her friends that had kids young or something like, that were miserable. And I think that it's just so interesting because that's, like, her perspective of, like, looking in as, like. And I think that also can reflect on, like, us as young moms. Like, how are we presenting to people that don't have kids? Yeah. Like, it's not totally on her. Right. Like, if you're. If you're griping and moaning about it in front of people that don't have kids, like, that's not that's not a.

[Addie]

Good thing to do.

[Abby]

Like, honestly, like, there's a time and a place to be. Like, this is really hard right now. Like, we're in a stage where we're not sleeping. That's really, really hard. And you should have space to say that. I think that community is with other moms, and I think that's really great. And it's not that you can't say that, but it's just, like, the messaging should be positive first and, like, this is awesome and super rewarding. And I'm sure those moms are like, yeah, I'm sure they're exhausted, but I'm sure if you. She were to come back and talk to them, like, do you think you made a mistake? Like, do you regret it? It would be absolutely not. I know. And so maybe those conversations could be a little bit more redeeming.

I don't know. Like, that's a good point. I get so frustrated online when I'm scrolling on the reels and it's just people dogging on their kids, like, in a humorous way. I'm like, yeah, these jokes are funny. Or, like, it'll be a video of a kid doing something crazy, like smearing poop. You know, something that is really gross and really hard and, like, does sometimes happen. And the comments are, this was great birth control. I'm like, that's not the point.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Because you can't control that audience at that point. Yeah.

And I'm like, dang. I just. I never. I. That's. If that's what people think kids are smearing poop and an inconvenience to your life, like, that sucks. You know, it's like, that's not the message that we want and that. Because that's not true.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's like, you can share those stories with your friends and your family and, like, other moms, but to people that aren't moms, it's like, man, think about how they take that stuff.

Yeah, I think it works.

[Addie]

I think you learn and adapt. Like, it's so interesting. Even, like over the holidays, you're care. You have a baby, you're going in and out. Naps are crazy. All these things. And what did we do yesterday? We were like, okay, we're not going to go to this thing because our daughter needs to nap, you know, and you just learn and adapt. And it's not miserable.

[Abby]

Like, totally.

[Addie]

I guess it's just everyone's perspective.

[Abby]

Also, baby years are short. I feel like people forget that, like, the nap stage is Short functioning.

[Addie]

Like, you see us, we're talking. We're alive.

[Abby]

You.

[Addie]

You are going to go tell someone at the supermarket, I'm not sleeping. Like, we still. Your body adapts as a mom.

[Abby]

Yeah, I, I just. People always think that, like, the baby stage is forever and it's like, no offense, but in three years, the kid's not going to nap, and then five years are going to be in school and you're not going to see them. So I don't know, like, you're gonna have your life back in a couple years. You know what I mean?

I'm like, I'm not dropping them off.

Kids are so inconvenient.

I am not dropping them out with school.

It's just like, I don't know. I'm like, it's just such a short time that we're inconvenienced in the great stream of our life.

Yeah. And also, gosh, I can't. I can't say this and not think about someone that's like, struggling with infertility or like going through a lawsuit. So, like, not to say, like, this is like the end all, be all, or like your life can't start until that next thing happens. So.

No.

There's so many people listening to this and I just had to think about that too.

Like, thanks for saying that.

Yeah. Like, there's so much joy in where you're at now. And it can feel like everything has to be on pause until that next thing happens or this thing or this stage enters or like maybe motherhood feels like this club that you're just not ever going to be a part of or like it's just really hard. And so all I just say, I'm like, I'm thinking about you, too. Like, it's a great. Yeah, that must be hard.

Totally.

And so, yeah. Not like it's like the ultimate end all be all. Like, everyone's life looks different. Everyone's timeline looks different. A lot of that is out of your control, too. And so try not to beat yourself up and try to find contentment. I know that's such a general thing to say right now, but there's a purpose for the season that you're in as much as you. It doesn't look like what you want it to be. Like there's a purpose for it and lean on your friends.

Yeah. Thanks for saying. I think that's good to say that.

Marriage and kids are amazing.

Yes.

And if you're in your. If you're in that season of waiting for those things and those are things that you want, and they don't feel accessible right now. Like, I hurt for you.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, that's hard.

Totally. And our lives aren't, like, better than yours.

It's no different. Yeah.

[Addie]

I'd say I look back and I wish I would have enjoyed those seasons more than, like, I was like, I was so excited to get married that I kind of just like, tried to rush into. Yeah. I wanted kids, so I rush into. And then I'm like, ah, I should have soaked it in a little bit more. So while it is hard, while you're waiting, I'm like, just soak it in.

[Abby]

That's the hardest thing. And just finding contentment where you're at. Gosh. Especially, like, for someone like me. Like, I don't even feel like I'm a planner at all. Like, I don't even, like, really think ahead, but I'm just like, I love looking forward to things. That's how I always, like. Even as a kid, I, like, looked back and I was like. When something was ending, my mom was like, well, this is coming. And, like, I feel like that's how I always, like, kept propelling myself forward. So that's kind of life.

Yeah. We love women. We're pro women, pro children, pro marriage. Marriage. Ask, ask, ask.

Abby, Wait.

This is fun.

This is our first time having a listener do it.

Oh, my gosh.

I'm kind of nervous.

[Addie]

We're gonna do three questions or three voicemails from listeners, and here is the first one.

[Abby]

My name's Francesca, and I was wondering, what's your best advice for getting motivated.

To help with my, like, self image.

And how I feel about my body and basically how to motivate myself to lose a bunch of weight. Love you guys.

Oh, my gosh. There's such a sweet, honest Francesca. Thank you for sending that. I feel like probably a lot of people relate to that or one of the same things. I feel like my initial reaction is weight is just. It's just a number, you know, and that shouldn't. I don't always feel like that's not a bad motivation for things if it's, like, unhealthy. But I think your motivation should just be health. And I feel like that's especially postpartum. I felt that a lot. Like, especially when your body changes a lot, you know? I feel like as women, our bodies go through a lot of ups and downs, and it's been motivating and really fun, and it's helped, like, keep my health forefront of mine. When I just think about, I want to feel strong. I want to feel like I have the best energy levels and all that. So finding that's been motivating for me. And if it's. I feel like if I'm just like, oh, I want to lose weight or I'm not feeling confident about my body and I want to wait, wait, wait, then that leads me. Want to do unhealthy things, like not eat the way that I should or like, you know, eat less calories than I. That's correct. Or go too crazy in the gym or it's overwhelming and I don't want to do anything at all. And so I feel like that's almost not like the. I feel like there is other factors that could be maybe more motivating than weight on the scale. I don't know.

Yeah. Find a way to move your body that you just actually really like.

Yes.

And that can be a lot of trial and error. I think the great place to start would be group fitness, because you have that built in accountability and you don't have to think. You literally just show up and they tell you what to do and you leave. And like, almost every time you get a good, well rounded workout because someone that's really well trained in all of this is like writing it for you. And more than anything, like, if you find a community that's like, that's the best way to stay accountable, in my opinion. And something that you like. Now, something I want to say is that, like, you can't hate the way you look or hate your body into changing. I think you have to love it into that. And I mean that. That sounds so cheesy, but I mean that in the sense of like, you have to love your body in the sense that, like, you want to do good things for it and like, move it and feed it well and also treat it like, do those things and then you'll. That will be the change. Rather than like, I just despise what I see and that's just not gonna be long lasting. I feel like this is my conversation with my mom. I'm like, hey, your goals should just be to show up. That is amazing. That's my only goal is to show up. And like, I want to do it because I want to do something good for my body, because I love my body and I want to be able to do things with it for a long time. And so I feel like the motivation has to come from love and not like, hate. Now, the self image part, that is hard and gosh I don't even necessarily know how to tackle that. Like, I feel like that's something that everyone struggles with.

Yeah. And I think it shifts a lot throughout your life.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I feel like, Francesca, you sound. You sound young, which is sweet. Thank you for like, listening. And I just feel like, too, as you get older, that will change. Like, I remember feeling very insecure about myself when I was in high school and, you know, worrying about all these things. I look back at pictures now, I'm like, why was I ever, like, insecure? Or, like, why did I worry about these things at a young age? And as you get older, I feel like you get life experience. You kind of get out of, like, oh, these are the certain images or standards of beauty, or this is what's right and what's wrong. And you kind of get this overall, which is, like, silly to say. Like, oh, just wait. You know, that's not my point. But I'm just saying, like, and as when you're young, it feels like it's your whole world and it's everything that you're thinking of, and it's really important. Feels really important. So, yeah, I just, like, give yourself some grace when you're young.

And in the interim, I feel like when I have felt, like, low self image times, just doing a little bit, like, maybe this is bad, guys. Correct me if this is bad advice, but sometimes I'm like, let me just get myself done up, like, one time. And then I just feel like it just, like, kick starts me into, like, I don't know. I know. Okay, so say I do my mascara, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, my eyes. Like, they're really standing out. Then you start to notice the things naturally about yourself that you really like. And so it's like, less of a crutch and more of just, like a kickstart. I don't know, like, find. Find things that make you feel more confident. Like, if there's a certain way you do your hair or, like, a little bit of makeup or an outfit that you feel like, really flatters you, I feel like that's just the thing that you can kickstart you into, like, social settings in which you're gonna have people that are actually gonna, like, speak life into you and, like, fulfill you in other ways and kind of get you out of that headspace where it's like, the only thing that matters is, like, how I look, which maybe that is, like, how it feels. But then once you're out, like, oh, people like me because I'm funny or people like me because, like, they like the things I have to say or the energy I bring to a room. And it's like, maybe that's just all it takes to get you in those settings, you know? I don't know when I'm like, in a down world, I'm like, I think I just need to, like, curl my hair. Yeah. Do a little mascara and then get out. Get out of my space and be with other people. And that really kind of helps, like, get your thoughts out of your own head.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thanks for saying that. Question. Hi, guys, this is Kamari. I have been watching you all for quite some time. My question is, how do you find the strength to keep going as a mother, even when you're going through things like grief, postpartum depression, and just life itself.

It's fresh for me still, like. But, yeah, you saying that does, like, revealing me. I feel like there was a lot of times, like, especially at the beginning where I was like, I'm not showing up at all for my kids because I'm just so wrapped up in my own grief. Like, I just felt like I couldn't show up for them. I think you gave me this advice, Abby, so this was good. But you were like, it's good for them to see you grieving. It's good for them to see you, like, sad. I don't know how you said it, but. And I think other friends gave me that advice as well because I was, like, so stuck in this. Like, I can't be around them if I'm just such a bother. Like, if I'm just so down. And so then it was like me retreating and like, Matt was doing everything for the kids. And I. That's a privilege because, like, this mom who called in, like, she probably. She might not have that as an option. And I just want to say, like, it's okay because I needed to hear this too. It's okay for your kids to see you down. It's, I think, important to follow up a conversation, though, about, like, what you are down about in a child appropriate way. And finding ways to do that was really important for me because I think this is how kids also start to learn how to cope with their own feelings. Knowing that I've heard it said before too. Like, when kids experience an emotion and they feel like mom or dad never had, like, they never experienced this, they don't know what it's like. And that can feel really confusing and lonely for kids. So, like, saying, like, mom feels sad right now. And I would like tell them why I was sad in a child appropriate way. And that like felt like a relief to me that I didn't have to just completely disappear because I was just like sad. And I also feel like for them like then they had a frame of reference where it's like, okay, like then they would bring it up to me. And so I feel like that was like, I'm not explaining this well at all, but basically don't feel like you have to shield your kids from that. I do think that you should reflect, like, how am I going to like, especially with some of the things you can be. Grieving can be really like really heavy. And maybe not necessarily like, because also I was like, if I start to talk about this to like my 2 and 3 year old, I could really unload on them and that's not their job. So just like do this thoughtfully but don't feel like you have to hide that up or bottle that up or just completely retreat because they're smart, they're really smart no matter how young they are.

Totally. That's a good answer. Yeah. Your grief came from a place of love and that's a really, that's a really important things for your kids to see it in your specific. And I think anyone who's going through loss, like if you're grieving a loss of a parent, of a child, of anything, like you're feeling super sad because you loved them so much and that's a really sweet thing for your kids to see and, and for you to explain to them. Like, I. This is like I loved them so much, you know?

Yeah.

And like that's, that's a, what's the word? Like honorable thing. That's not, you know, and I think that's a good reminder. Like grief isn't bad. Like it's coming from a place of like love and sadness.

I think have grace on yourself too. That's so hard to do sometimes. But just like know that this is a tough season. It's not going to look like this always. So for me your question is about keeping going. And it's like, I think set small goals for yourself. Like as a mom would be like just a really depending on how old your kids are. It's like I want to do one guided activity with them today or I want to do 10 minutes of just like play with them and then just like having those like little goals to start help get you back in motion too. And then you can also just be like, I showed up for them and you don't have to just deal with that guilt of, like, maybe I can't be as fun or as, like, lively or imaginative. Like, I was like, I can't use my imagination right now. Like, I just remember feeling like I can't just, like, run around and be goofy, but, like, I'm like, I can sit down and do playdead with them for, like, 10 minutes or things like that. So just set small goals, too, because, like, eventually, three weeks into small goals, you'll find yourself in a better place. Like, I guarantee it. And doesn't. It fluctuates too, as I'm sure anyone who's gone through grief knows.

But, yeah, yeah, you don't have to hide that from your kids. Like, then your kids are older and they look back on that and like, oh, wow, mom really struggled with postpartum depression, or mom was really grieving during that season. They're not going to think she was so weak. You know, they're going to think, wow, look how strong my mom is. She got through that season and she's still this amazing mom and she loves us. So.

But they might feel confused if it's not like, a conversation, if that makes sense.

[Addie]

Oh, for sure.

[Abby]

Yeah.

And because I think kids tend to put things on themselves, like how their parents are doing, like, with. On themselves. So it's a good call out. What are some tips or advice that.

You have for when you just found.

Out that you're pregnant?

[Addie]

When you just found out you're pregnant, what do you do?

[Abby]

Oh, you probably sweat a lot. Buy deodorant. Again.

[Addie]

I literally listen to a podcast. I was like, what do I do when you find out?

[Abby]

Oh, like, what do you like, actually.

[Addie]

Actually, what should you do?

[Abby]

That's a great question.

It's hard at the beginning. There's not a lot to do.

Totally. You kind of have to wait because you. You call your doctor, you need to make a doctor's appointment, and they're going.

To tell you, find an OB gyn. What'd you say?

They tell you to wait till eight weeks. Yeah. And you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't know how many weeks I am. They'll help you calculate it, help you figure it out. Gosh, it's so exciting and so fun. I remember when I found out with cj, I was obviously, like, really surprised. And I drove to Starbucks and I was sweating so much and trying to hold back tears, and I hadn't told anybody yet. I drove immediately. Starbucks. I was gonna get a drink, and I told the guy at the counter go, can you write on it? I'm pregnant. My eyes out. And then I was just. And he's like, did you just find out? I was like, yeah. And he gave me a hug, and it was really sweet.

Yeah.

So I feel like after that, emotions kind of like settle. You could decide then with your partner how you want to tell people and when you want to tell people. I think that's kind of it. You just kind of wait. Yeah, it's a lot of waiting.

Yep.

Would you agree, Eddie?

[Addie]

Yeah. I had no idea what to do. And we were recording a podcast that day, and so I listened to a podcast from. I don't even know who. Someone, somewhere. I was like, what to do when you find out you're pregnant.

[Abby]

Yeah. What'd they say? What'd they say?

[Addie]

They said, make an appointment. Call an OB if you haven't found one. Start taking a prenatal if you're not.

[Abby]

Oh, that's a good thing.

[Addie]

I wasn't taking a prenatal. I should have been. Yeah. And then a lot of waiting. But I also just told everyone that day, so.

[Abby]

Oh, yeah. That's the hardest part. It's like you kind of just have to tell someone. Totally one person.

[Addie]

I had to tell.

[Abby]

Get it off your chest, you know?

[Addie]

Well, I told Abby, and then she convinced us to go tell everyone.

[Abby]

Well, I also knew that my mom would be so mad if I knew.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Well, like, long before her.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

I was like, you. Are you waiting for a spirit specific reason or. Because I was like, if you're not, you better tell Lori.

Yeah.

[Addie]

Blake was the one that was like, let's wait. And I'm like, come on.

[Abby]

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That's funny. That's so exciting. Congratulations. Oh, my gosh. It's great.

I had an unhinged. This is probably going to get cut. But when I was thinking about pros and cons to getting married.

Oh, God, this is unhinged.

But I just had to say it. Okay. If you get married young, you're gonna.

Have sex a lot. You got a lot of practice time.

Like, I literally. Matt asked Chat GPT a lot more.

[Addie]

As in a lot more in your lifetime.

[Abby]

Yes.

Yeah. It's so true.

Like, there. If you're just doing one night stands, there's literally no way you'll spend your whole life coordinating partners. Like, I mean, it's just not gonna work out. Matt asked ChatGPT like, where we at as far as, like, a total Caleb.

And I also just calculated that up. What just ourselves, though.

Just ourselves. I'm not gonna give it, but I was like, no one. It take a long time for newlyweds to catch us.

You'll never catch us.

Oh, my gosh. Hey. Okay. We cried a lot this episode. I had to do something. Lighted well. Thanks, guys, for supporting us. It's like, obviously we're. We're working out our podcast muscle together.

Yeah.

It's gonna get stronger over time, but.

We'Re new to this. It feels. I know. You're like, this is a new rule for you. Yeah, this is definitely a new rule for me. So, yeah. Thanks for listening to episode two.

Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. If you want to leave a voicemail for next week's episode, be sure to call in. And the number is 602-456-9690. If you're driving or doing laundry or something, it'll also be in the description and on our Instagram page. Follow us on the Instagram page. That'd be really fun. And subscribe on tube and TikTok were there as well. Thanks so much for being here and being a part of the always here community. It makes this, like, so much more fun doing this with you guys. So.

And remember, we're always here.