Things we're doing differently postpartum

Summary

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The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby

Episode: "Things We're Doing Differently Postpartum"
Date: June 24, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Matt & Abby Howard candidly dive into what they’re planning to change and keep the same for the postpartum period as they prepare for baby number three. Drawing from their past postpartum experiences—both the struggles and the successes—they share their personal lessons, discuss the physical and emotional realities of life with a newborn, reflect on marriage after growing their family, and reveal new personal "non-negotiables." The hosts read and discuss insights from listeners, provide practical strategies for postpartum recovery, and tackle the importance of honest communication and shared responsibilities in parenting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Pregnancy Changes & Pre-Baby Planning

• Body Image and Honest Changes:
  • Abby shares comfort with new stretch marks and body shape (“I think I have new stretch marks. And I’m actually happy about it…maybe this means a baby can successfully vacate there.” – Abby, 01:48).
  • Matt notes his “grill master” phase and commitment to healthy eating postpartum, with a shift from comfort foods to nutrient-rich meals (10:08).
• Travel & Timing:
  • Brief anxiety about Matt’s trip to Turkey for his brother's hair transplant right before baby arrives, and the logistics around doctor appointments and being heavily pregnant alone (02:43-07:16).
• Celebrations & Scheduling:
  • The busy summer of birthdays and why they dislike joint celebrations for their kids, highlighting the importance of individual attention (12:33-14:46).
  • Uncertainty of labor timing due to planning for a VBAC.

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Learning from Postpartum Experience

1. Postpartum is Long & Dramatic

• “Postpartum is longer than pregnancy…12 to 18 months after your baby is born.” (16:28)
• Physical recovery, mental health, metabolism, sleep, pelvic floor function—all can be in flux for a year or more after birth.
  • “Sleep hormones, pelvic floor function, metabolism, and mental health can all still be recovering a year later.” – Abby, 24:10

2. Shifting Priorities & Confidence

• By baby #3, Abby feels less concerned about physical changes and more in awe of her body.
  • “On this third baby, I care less and less about the changes that happen in my body. Like, I’m amazed by them.” – Abby, 22:05
• They aim to avoid repeating past mistakes, referencing a need to “do the opposite” of what went wrong before (16:11-16:28).

3. Honest Conversation About Roles

• Reflection on past nights where Matt handled most wake-ups, leading to Abby feeling appreciative but also guilty:
  • “You carried the team, and…like, I still to this day, feel guilty about [that].” – Abby, 38:02
• Matt’s early involvement as “the king of baby wearing” and their evolving strategy—even splitting toddler and newborn shifts for this round (72:18-74:09).

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Physical and Mental Health Realities

1. Sleep Deprivation & Its Impact

• “Parents lose hundreds of hours of sleep” – and mental health effects include hallucinations, phantom baby syndrome, increased anxiety, emotional reactivity, and impaired judgment “comparable to alcohol intoxication.” (28:30-31:05)
  • Notable: Phantom baby syndrome lingered for Abby for two years (29:13).
• Physical effects: increased hunger, weakened immune system, higher risk of accidents, and slowed recovery time (31:28-35:43).

2. Breastfeeding, Hormones, and Recovery

• “Breastfeeding can cause contractions,” with both physical and hormonal implications (24:36-25:30).
• Night sweats, hair loss, postpartum rage, and the intensity of early breastfeeding hunger (“Postpartum hunger is worse than pregnancy hunger…whatever I can fill my stomach with.” – Abby, 54:13).

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“Postpartum Non-Negotiables” and Listener Insights

New Rules for the Third Baby

• No Overnight Guests:
  • “We are not allowing any people to stay the night at our house for the first month.” (69:22)
  • Previous experiences were over-stimulating—even with helpful, supportive guests.
• Older Kids Sleep at Grandparents:
  • For the first week, to focus on newborn night shifts and recovery (71:05-71:58).
• Nighttime Game Plan:
  • Abby to pump during the night with a wearable while feeding bottles for efficiency and quicker return to sleep (72:01-74:09).
  • Toddler care and newborn shifts split between parents.
• Bedroom Nighttime Station:
  • Mini fridge, bottle washer, lamp/fairy lights, diapers, fresh pajamas, and a bottle warmer to streamline nighttime needs (74:54-75:43).
• Strict Screen Time Limits:
  • Social media blackout for a week after birth, only "healthy" TV screen time while nursing (79:59-81:55).
• No Hosting Meals or House Guests:
  • Daytime visitors welcome; meal trains and chore help encouraged but mealtime and overnight hosting is off-limits for the first month.

From Listeners:

• Roles: “Mom takes care of baby, Dad takes care of everything else.” (51:06)
• Practical Tips:
  • Ice-pack pads, paper plates, snacks for middle-of-the-night feeds, a mini fridge in the bedroom, burp rags in every room, and paternity leave (52:26-63:35).
  • “No one should kiss a newborn baby except for mom and dad.” (54:51)
• Physical Needs:
  • Nipple butter, lactation cookies, and tips to reduce postpartum anxiety, like reading on a device (56:00-58:59).
  • Several recommend therapy for the first three months after birth. (58:59-59:21)

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Marriage and Partnership Post-Baby

• Teamwork and Vulnerability:
  • Postpartum puts more strain and intimacy on marriage than even transitioning to marriage itself.
    • “Your relationship changes more after having a baby than after getting married. 100% agree.” – Matt, 89:02
• “I think there's something so romantic...going through something difficult together and overcoming it as a team.” – Abby, 42:11
• “There will probably be another time in your marriage where you have less time romantically, one-on-one with each other…Yet there’s something so romantic about going through that.” – Abby, 42:10

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Postpartum is considered 12 to 18 months after your baby is born.” – Abby, 16:41
• “I think we failed so much in postpartum that we kind of know how it goes.” – Matt, 16:02
• “Phantom baby syndrome…did not go away for like two years.” – Abby, 29:13
• “You carried the team, and…like, I still to this day, feel guilty about [that].” – Abby, 38:02
• “No one really should kiss a newborn baby except for mom and dad.” – Abby, 55:01
• “No posting anything at all for a week once baby’s born. That week is just fully focusing on baby, us healing, and soaking in those moments.” – Abby, 77:59
• “A postpartum plan is more important than a birth plan.” – Abby, 84:10

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• The Body & Mental Shift in Pregnancy/Postpartum: 01:57-02:18, 21:53-24:10
• VBAC and Birth Planning Logistics: 12:49-14:25
• How Long Is Postpartum, Really? 16:41-17:00
• Sleep Deprivation Realities & Mental/Physical Effects: 28:29-35:43
• Key Non-Negotiables for Next Postpartum: 69:22-76:00
• Splitting Roles: Handling Toddlers vs. Newborn: 72:18-74:09
• Listener Submissions (Best Tips): 51:06-68:40
• Marriage After Baby: 42:10-43:20, 89:02-90:02
• Healthy TV vs. Social Media Postpartum: 81:05-82:36

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Episode Flow & Tone

Matt and Abby’s episode is compassionate, transparent, and practical, combining vulnerability with humor and honest self-assessment. They stress letting go of perfection, learning from what didn’t work, and staying connected as partners. Listener input is woven throughout, making the episode feel like a supportive group discussion among friends.

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Closing Thoughts

Matt and Abby conclude by reading a listener review and celebrating their growing audience. They look forward with cautious optimism to their next postpartum journey, equipped with new wisdom and boundaries meant to preserve their family’s wellbeing.

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If you’re seeking a real, detailed conversation on the nitty-gritty of postpartum—practical strategies, real relationship talk, and honest admission of failures and learning—this episode is a treasure trove for expectant parents.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Are you team Granny Panties? After giving birth?

[A]

You think I'm putting a thong on after everything that's happening down there?

[B]

Probably not. That thing would probably not. Oh, God. I ran into our neighbors that just had their third, and they're already scheduling the vasectomy.

[A]

Don't even say that.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

It's so sick. Sad to think about the baby factory closing. That is wild that my body is just perfectly accommodating this new life. And visually, I. I'm just not as concerned about any of those things. I can't say that I feel hot and spicy.

[B]

Intercourse can cause street contractions. I didn't know that.

[A]

I don't know if it's necessarily intercourse. I feel like it's.

[B]

Is it the O?

[A]

It's the O. O.

[B]

It's the O.

[A]

What's up, dudes? Bringing it back.

[B]

Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.

[A]

Oh, see there? You took it a step too far.

[B]

Should we just redo that now?

[A]

No, it's part of it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We are back with another episode, and I'm looking at myself in the viewfinder, and I just am gonna barf because my hair is so dark.

[B]

You guys, Abby is extremely pregnant. She is.

[A]

Am I extremely pregnant?

[B]

Pregnant? The bump is bumping. You look so cute, though.

[A]

See, I'm delusional. I feel like my bump is so tiny.

[B]

You've got. Your hips are, like, wide now. I know you've gotten a whole. You look good.

[A]

I think I have new stretch marks. And I'm actually happy about it. Cause I'm like, maybe this means a baby can successfully vacate there.

[B]

I feel like I can say this. Cause this is just like all women basically listening to our show. But you've got a big butt. You've got a nice. You got a nice booty.

[A]

I do feel like my weight gain has been different this time. It has been more hips and thighs and, like, my booty more so than other times.

[B]

It's kind of fun. It's like. It's a new version of you.

[A]

I'm having a great time for sure.

[B]

Super hot. I like your hair, but you always have your hair.

[A]

No, my hair is bad. I just said it. So dark. It's just making. I need. I need it to be blonde. It's summer now, and I have a hair appointment coming up this next episode.

[B]

My nipples are bigger. You know, there's a lot of changes going on.

[A]

We don't need to talk about that.

[B]

Yeah, that's too far. That was too. We need to edit that out.

[A]

You've had a few.

[B]

Just kidding. We could keep it in.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

How do you feel about me taking my younger brother on a hair trip to Turkey?

[A]

That is. I'm scared.

[B]

I feel bad leaving you, but it's also. It's quite a bit before the birth, you know, so I'm only gonna be in Turkey for a little bit. Going with Josh. He's excited. He's getting some new hair. He's.

[A]

Can you tell them what you mean by this?

[B]

Yeah. So for everybody that followed along as I went to Turkey and got a hair transplant, it was a great experience. It was so much fun visiting the country. And just the whole team of doctors and nurses at the hair clinic estonove that I went to, they took really good care of me. They've also taken really good care of, like, all the guys at barstool that have gotten hair transplants. Anyway, my younger brother really wanted one, and I thought, you know what? I should reach back out and see if they'd want to run this back. And they did. So now they're doing it for Josh. I'm going to be documenting his journey of getting a hair transplant.

[A]

Josh hasn't even been, like, on very much content, so.

[B]

No. Yeah. So if you guys don't know, I have a younger brother. His name's Josh. He is, like, pretty fresh out of college, I would say. But, yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

When I met Josh, he was like a child. Child.

[B]

I know. But now he's got a big boy job.

[A]

I know. He's like a full adult.

[B]

Yeah. He has, like a long term relationship. So he's just like. He's a grown man.

[A]

He is a grown man.

[B]

And he asked me so many questions about the hair transplant. He was very interested in it. And I'm really happy. Like, basically what I told him. I actually took a video of this at Christmas time. I was like, josh, I want you to know that if it doesn't work out for Estanove to do the hair transplant for you, I'm just gonna pay for it for You. Cause, like, I just wanted him to have it. And so I'm really glad that it worked out. And I'm actually really excited to go back to Turkey again because it's just a beautiful country. Like, the people there are so nice. The food's really good. The history is incredible. I'm a history nerd, so the fact that the Roman Empire was there for, like, a thousand years, ridiculous. And I know Josh is kind of a nerd, too, so we're gonna have fun talking about, like, the Romans.

[A]

Wait a minute. How far is Turkey from Rome?

[B]

So Rome, actually, I have no idea.

[A]

Okay. Is it close?

[B]

I mean, when the Roman Empire split because it got so big, you had the Byzantine Empire that, like, that lasted longer than the. The. The Northern, like, Roman Empire, and Constantinople became the capital.

[A]

The amount of times I've heard you

[B]

say that word, Constantinople, because Istanbul is Constantinople. Like, Constantinople got taken over. It got taken over by the Turks. The Turks went in and took over, and when they did, they changed the name, and they turned all the churches and cathedrals into mosques. So there's, like, a bazillion mosques in Turkey. And, you know, I've just. I've never seen that many mosques in my life until. Until I went there. It's like the Bible Belt in reverse, but, like, for Muslims, you know, like, you know, when. If you're in Missouri, everywhere you go, there's a church.

[A]

Say it's in reverse, but it's exactly

[B]

what you get if you're. If you're, like, in the Midwest. The Bible bell. And there's a church on every corner. That's. That's. That's like the. That's Istanbul.

[A]

Like, everywhere you look, it's like the Bible bell.

[B]

There's so many in reverse, but for a different religion. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

I get what you're saying.

[B]

And they take it very seriously. They pray five times a day.

[A]

This feels like a sensitive topic. I'm scared.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Okay, moving on.

[B]

I hope I didn't offend anybody.

[A]

No, I think. No, you're fascinated by it, and it is really cool. And it's really cool that you were, like, able to visit a mosque and, like, you'll probably go again with Josh, and.

[B]

Yeah, I think we're running back the tour again.

[A]

I was just thinking about that because I was scheduling my doctor's appointments because they're every two weeks now, and I have a scan because I had a doctor's appointment today. Have a scan in two weeks. And so then the next week after that it won't be a scan, but I'll have to go by myself.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

No, it's fine. I'm just a little overwhelmed at the fact of being so pregnant and alone for six days. I say alone, but we have, like, a lot of family and friends.

[B]

We've got a great community.

[A]

We'll be fine. They're easy. But I was just like, oh, gosh, I'm scared.

[B]

I just. We just had to fit in that. That hair transplant trip before baby.

[A]

That's better. It's better now than after baby.

[B]

I would not want to leave you freshly postpartum with a newborn and two toddlers. That sounds. Can you imagine. Can you imagine single parents who do this? Like, people that just don't. I guess there's probably not a ton of people that go through postpartum without a spouse.

[A]

No, it happens a lot, but I

[B]

guess it does happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if that's you and you're.

[A]

A lot of guys don't get post paternity or maybe they're deployed or. And there could be all kinds of reasons their husband's in poor health. Like.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. Especially. Yeah. Military spouses. That would be very hard. That would be extremely hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're all goodness.

[A]

But about my baby appointment today, it was very quick, and I was really grateful for a quick appointment.

[B]

Yeah. Why was the appointment so quick today?

[A]

Because it was just standard. It was just routine. It was great. It was so chill. The boys even went with me. And it was actually so funny because they burst into the office and they were like, we need help. They're, like, saying, baby so and so our baby's name needs help. Uh, he's naked. They're, like, shocked that he's gonna come out naked. They're, like, very concerned about that.

[B]

All of a sudden, they do not have clothes on in the day.

[A]

They think that's funny, but they're like, wait a minute. At the hospital, are they gonna have diapers and clothes for him? I'm like, yeah, we need to pack him an outfit because he's gonna come out, he's gonna have no clothes on. And they're like. So they think it's hilarious, but also they're concerned.

[B]

I love that our kids got your confidence. They have no fear going up and talking to anybody and everybody, because they went and directly said receptionist.

[A]

They'll talk to literally anybody. Which is why we felt, like, a little bit the importance of having a stranger conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, yeah, that's why we've had stranger conversations. I. I tread lightly because I don't want them to be fearful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, it is an important conversation to have, like, for safety. So shout out to Berenstein Bears with that one.

[B]

I love how respectfully they asked to pet everyone's dog. Anytime there's anybody that has a dog, they're not afraid to ask to pet the dog. But we did teach them that dogs can be dangerous. There are mean dogs and nice dogs,

[A]

and then there's working dogs. We don't ask to touch them.

[B]

Exactly. And we got to talk with Matthew and Paul about that. So that was very fascinating.

[A]

But, yeah, the baby appointment was very routine and quick. And it feels crazy now getting, like, the last appointments on the books, which is wild because we are booked now through 35 weeks.

[B]

Goodness.

[A]

And that's not that far from now when you really think about it. So it's crazy. I keep saying that this time, from, like, 30, 31 weeks, 32 weeks to 40, feels, like, so long and so short at the same time. Like, it's kind of like people are like, oh, like, how do you. Like, do you feel? Right. I'm like, I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, yeah. I'm just so ready for him to be in our arms. But also I'm like, I actually need to physically get ready probably now that I grill.

[B]

I'm kind of a grill master now. Should I. Should I, like, just grill all the time when you're postpartum and make, like, steak and salmon burgers, teriyaki chicken? I could just do a whole. I could just make us grill food all the time.

[A]

Yes. I definitely think that you should grill. I actually, like, think that postpartum, I like having healthy foods. Like, I don't want comfort foods.

[B]

That's why.

[A]

Necessarily.

[B]

That's also why.

[A]

Awesome. Yes. But I like eating healthy afterwards because your body, like, needs nutrients.

[B]

I've been on, like, a health kick and. And so that it's also easier to, like, notate what's in my food. Like, if I'm putting into, like, the apps, how many macros or whatever. I always mess that stuff up. But that's really helpful for me too.

[A]

Are you tracking?

[B]

I'm trying to. I'm so bad at tracking. I was gonna say I just try to not eat dessert and eat. I try to eat vegetables less dessert or no dessert, and then replace that with fruit. Cause it's pretty hard to, like, overeat fruit.

[A]

I'm not game for that. There's fiber every night.

[B]

But see, like, if I Eat enough fruit, it kind of takes away my sweet. My sweet tooth.

[A]

Disagree.

[B]

It really does.

[A]

Agree to disagree.

[B]

It doesn't work that way for you.

[A]

No. I needed.

[B]

If I eat an entire container of strawberries, my sweet tooth is gone.

[A]

I would never sit and eat an entire container of strawberries.

[B]

Why it.

[A]

That's a lot of strawberries.

[B]

But they're so good. They're so tasty. See, when I was a kid, I thought it was a million dollars for a carton of strawberries, especially blackberries and raspberries. Like, whenever we got those, my mom was like, all right, everyone gets two.

[A]

That's funny. Hey, I don't blame her. Yeah, they can't. They can run a steep price.

[B]

Yeah. Hey, you know. And I respect it. You know, she's. My mom's a frugal queen, but now. Now that we're a little bit more.

[A]

She's not going to like that you said that.

[B]

Sorry, Mom.

[A]

I love you, but actually, you know what? I think she probably does identify with that.

[B]

She does. She.

[A]

She knows she does that.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't call her cheap. I called her frugal.

[A]

That's right. That's a. That's fair.

[B]

But the thing is, though, like, it's a. It's like a delicacy to me to just see, sit and eat a carton of strawberries, you know?

[A]

Like, you're talking about a pound of strawberries.

[B]

I'm a fan of the fruit.

[A]

We're in the. We're in the final stretch, I would say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Almost getting there. We're in that awkward phase, honestly, where it feels like a long time, but it also feels like if I blink, it's going to be here. And so we've been having a lot of conversations about postpartum, but there's. Honestly, I feel like we don't even have room for that exactly yet, because I'm like, there is so much that has to get done before then, because, first of all, both of our kids have summer birthdays. You have a summer birthday? Yeah, my dad has a summer birthday. I feel like there's been so many birthdays going on, and we love a party, so we're throwing parties for all of them.

[B]

And, you know, Father's Day, my birthday's coming up.

[A]

Father's Day. Cannot forget Father's Day.

[B]

Cannot forget it. And we can't celebrate Father's Day and my birthday on the same day. That would be a huge problem.

[A]

It's so niche. People don't even know what you're talking about.

[B]

That's way too niche, but only the people that like just consume way too much social media we're talking about.

[A]

But we have been having to plan in advance for these parties because we never. We don't know now, like our birth plan, like we talked in the last episode, since we are now playing on a vbac, it can kind of. There's more flexibility on like when this could be happening, whereas like a scheduled C section, you can almost count on the fact that it's happening like right at 39 weeks and you can set that date. But right now we're, we're kind of up in the air and so we have to make a plan because one of our son's birthday is a day before this baby's due date. So that is not a good bet to. I. We definitely don't want to do it after the baby arrives and so we're gonna have to move it up. But then our other son's birthday is in July, so we'll have two birthday parties in July. We're just figuring out the logistics. It's going to be really, really fun.

[B]

What's your. Do you have any hot takes on joint birthday parties? We're not doing it because I, I feel like that some parents probably get very bothered by that.

[A]

I hate that idea personally.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think especially when they're, if they're, if they're like a baby, you know, like, if they're, if they're like brand, brand new to the world. Like if you have twins, I think having like a joint birthday party for twins.

[A]

Yeah. But even for twins, I feel like there's a time where that splits.

[B]

True, true.

[A]

Like Lauren and Ari, they did separate birthday parties this year.

[B]

That. Okay, that makes sense.

[A]

I think it makes a lot of sense, especially for a girl boy party. But then also it's like they still want their individual time to like, be celebrated. Even though I think our boys, like, they, they love each other and they are attached at the hip. They would, they wouldn't care. But for me personally, I'm like, I want to celebrate each of you separately and like, make a big deal about it.

[B]

That's my hot take about why you shouldn't have too many kids. Because then if you, if you have like, you know, seven kids, how in the world do you give all those kids undivided, individual attention and have a good birthday experience?

[A]

For us, I think that's maybe not their priority.

[B]

You're throwing a birthday party every other month.

[A]

Maybe that's not their priority.

[B]

No more than every other month, you

[A]

know, you don't know, because they could all be, like, March babies.

[B]

It's a lot of birthday parties. That'd be so crazy. Gosh, I wonder how Octa mom does it. You know,

[A]

I'm sure she has a system in place.

[B]

Yeah, they probably do. Any who.

[A]

But we're planning both those birthday parties. Actually. 3. 4. 4 birthday parties.

[B]

Your dad is. Everyone should forget about your dad.

[A]

Nope, we can't forget about my dad. Yeah. Cause. Oh, that's the other thing. My dad's birthday is this baby's due date.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Literally the due d. Gosh, we are screwed. We did not. This did not go well.

[B]

He's not getting celebrated, honestly. Sorry.

[A]

I think he's totally fine with it.

[B]

He's over it. We'll just get him a case of Heineken's and call it a day.

[A]

But, yeah, we're getting a lot of things ready around here. Hopefully we can nest soon and get the bassinet set up. We've been, honestly, ever since we found out we were pregnant literally last year at this time, we have been having, like, conversations about, like, what we want to do differently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're not experts at postpartum by any means.

[B]

I know we are. We kind of. We kind of figured it out. I think we have a system.

[A]

I think we've learned a lot through failure, and I think now I feel probably overly confident.

[B]

Yeah. I think we failed so much in postpartum that we kind of know how it goes.

[A]

It's only up from here.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, you know, the movie kicking and streaming with Will Ferrell.

[A]

I wasn't allowed to watch that.

[B]

Okay, well, he. In the movie, he tells the kids to do the opposite of everything that he said, and that's how they end up winning the game. Spoiler alert. That's the end of the movie. So I think. I think for us, we just do the opposite of everything that went wrong with postpartum before.

[A]

No, I do think we have a good plan, though. As we approach postpartum, we have some shocking facts that. It's like, I know these things happen because, I mean, heck, I've experienced this firsthand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then when you actually think about it, it's like, wow, postpartum is longer than pregnancy. Which is a little overwhelming because Postpartum is considered 12 to 18 months after your baby is born.

[B]

Goodness. I. I actually was today years old when I realized that postpartum was longer than pregnancy.

[A]

Of course. Yeah. Because, I mean, think about it. Whenever they Were like, if you have anything, anything come up literally under the sun as far as I'm concerned, like mental health wise or physical health wise, in that first year after you have your baby, they. Your first stop is the ob.

[B]

You know what I just thought of the other day?

[A]

What?

[B]

The fact that you're having a V back now means that we could have these. Like, we could potentially have babies really close together. Just crank them up, you know?

[A]

I know. I was kind of.

[B]

Which is. Which is like, exciting but also terrifying.

[A]

Right. I feel that way. I'm like, maybe we need to see how this goes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we'll.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it's. It might happen, it might not happen. Like, maybe we'll just see what our capacity feels like after this. Because we've never been parents of three.

[B]

True.

[A]

So. And if there's anything that I have learned since becoming a parent is that I will consistently be humbled, actually. And as soon as I met, the best laid plans will be upended.

[B]

I was taking the kids to the park the other day, and I ran into our neighbors that just had their third, and they're already scheduling the. The. The vasectomy.

[A]

Don't even say that word.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

That panics me.

[B]

Vasectomy. Stop. It just freaks you out.

[A]

I don't want to think about that time.

[B]

Why, Matt?

[A]

It's so sad to think about the baby factory closing.

[B]

Oh, okay. Sorry.

[A]

You know how I feel about this.

[B]

Okay, well, they can be reversed. You know, that is an option. But you're right. I hear you, and everything you're feeling and thinking is valid. I respect that. Thank you to ZocDoc for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Abby, did you know that I just did a ZOC doc appointment, like 10 days ago?

[A]

You booked your own?

[B]

I booked my own.

[A]

Very proud of you.

[B]

Took it on my phone. It was so quick. 15 minutes. I was able to get a refill for my Adderall because I was having trouble focusing. That's embarrassing to admit, but I have ADHD. I'm so thankful for how easy ZocDoc makes it to get refills. And I'm able to talk with a trained medical professional from the convenience of my own home.

[A]

Seriously, Having no time to make doctor's appointments is no problem with zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states.

[B]

Whether you're looking for dermatology, dentistry, primary care, eye care, or one of the other 200 plus specialties offered on Zocdoc, you can easily search by specialty or symptom to build the care team that's right for you. I use Zocdoc, and you should to stop putting off those doctor's appointments and, and go to Zocdoc.com unplanned to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Zocdoc.com unplanned Zocdoc.com unplanned

[A]

Some facts about postpartum that you might not know, Matt Howard, is that the wound left behind by the placenta. Gosh. The placenta alone is the size of a dinner plate.

[B]

Crazy, right?

[A]

I mean, our dinner plates are pretty big.

[B]

And then you factor in the fact that you've had a C section, and so then you're not only like recovering from the C section wound, but then you've got a dinner plate wound as well.

[A]

So the dinner plate wound is inside our uterus.

[B]

It's inside your body.

[A]

I don't remember feeling pain there, though.

[B]

But that's why you were bleeding for days, like multiple days after you.

[A]

I have deja vu or not deja vu. I have amnesia. I don't remember much about these things. I think that was the. I think that was part of the plan.

[B]

I think that's some sort of evolutionary trait, like forgetting traumatic times because that, like, for us especially, like, we're having another kid and we've been through some crazy stuff. Like, I, I'm even scared to go back and watch that old content because of.

[A]

I don't watch any of our, how dark old stuff.

[B]

You know, some. Some of the stuff hard, you know, there's hard times in postpartum and pregnancy. So it's cool that we, you know, we're doing this again and it's gonna be great.

[A]

Yeah. So it's crazy. Like we said, pregnancy lasts 40 weeks. But many experts now describe postpartum recovery as a process that can take 12 to 18 months or longer or longer. I mean, here's the thing. Like, you can be recovered, but your body is just forever changed after having kids. You want to know how I know that?

[B]

How?

[A]

It's from true crime. So, like, if they find skeletal remains, they can tell right away if it's a woman, if it's a female, if. Well, first of all, they can tell right away if it's a male or female, but they can also tell if that female has had children before or not, just by the skeletal remains. So you know that the changes of pregnancy are. I mean, they're permanent, they're lasting. And you know what, that makes sense. It feels like a life changing process for sure.

[B]

I believe that you can see it in your hips right now.

[A]

I know, but does that go back a little bit? Some of it never goes back, I guess.

[B]

I think you're right. I think it can go back, but there. Yeah, I think you have enough kids. I think your body's permanently.

[A]

Yeah. And also on this third baby, I care less and less about the changes that happen in my body. Like, I'm amazed by them. I genuinely. I'm like, wow, that is wild that my body is just perfectly accommodating this new life. And yeah, like, everything it has to do to bring it into the world and to nourish air, I'm like, that's amazing.

[B]

Yeah, it really is.

[A]

Visually, I'm just not as concerned about any of those things. It's just. Yeah. And I. And that's a blessing because I feel like I definitely couldn't have said the same for our first pregnancy. Like, I feel like the first time I was like, kind of freaked out by everything, and now I'm just like, wow, that's amazing.

[B]

That probably was pretty overwhelming to.

[A]

I can't say that I feel. I can't say that I feel hot and spicy. Like, you are, like, so nice and flattering. I'm like, oh, really? You think that right now? Right about now. Okay. Because I saw this thing. It was like my husband walking, forgetting that he now has a pet whale. And that's how I feel because you're walking at your normal pace and like me, just a whale. I'm trying to keep up and I can't. I can't keep up with you.

[B]

We did have to. We did go on a walk the other night and we had to walk ridiculously slow.

[A]

Oh, you thought I was slow the whole time? I thought I was going so fast and then I just needed to sit down halfway through.

[B]

I took pretzel on a walk last night and we probably went triple the speed that we went.

[A]

I am averaging 24 minute miles.

[B]

There's no way. I feel like you're doing a 35 minute mile.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

We. We were crawling on that wall.

[A]

Well, we went four miles. That's a long time.

[B]

That was a four mile walk?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, wow. I did not realize we walked.

[A]

I'm gonna start slowing down after miles too.

[B]

We were slow on the first, like, quarter mile. I tried my best, which is okay. You're obviously. Yeah, you're. You're carrying a human in your belly.

[A]

No, I know. We were. Yeah, we were slow. And you know what? I really can't go faster, so it's just gonna keep getting slower, probably. Here's another little factoid for you about postpartum sleep hormones, pelvic floor function, metabolism, and mental health can all still be recovering a year later.

[B]

Goodness.

[A]

No one's surprised by that. I mean, no woman's surprised by that. That's gone through it. You're like, yeah, something still ain't right. You definitely turn a leaf. I feel like 12 months.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A major leaf. I mean, you've turned leaves throughout the whole thing, but it's really just depend on when you stop breastfeeding. Like, if you're breastfeeding and it's 18 months, like, I feel like you're still. Your hormones are still crazy, you know?

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[A]

Did you know that breastfeeding can cause contractions?

[B]

I did know that. You told me that. You actually were the person that taught me that.

[A]

I was taught that when our son latched and it hurt my nipple and my uterus, I was really shocked by that.

[B]

Yeah. Intercourse can cause contractions, too. I didn't know that because you told me that there was couples that, like, have to abstain. So the baby doesn't come early. Right.

[A]

I think.

[B]

And people that are trying to get the baby to come out will just start doing it and. And.

[A]

Yeah, no, I think it's. I don't know if it's necessarily intercourse. I feel like it's.

[B]

Oh, it's the. The finish. It's the seed.

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, it's not.

[A]

I don't think it's that.

[B]

Oh, is it the. Is it the O?

[A]

It's the o.

[B]

It's the O that causes and potentially

[A]

the stimulation of the nipple.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that can do it.

[A]

That can come in tandem.

[B]

I see what you're saying.

[A]

So.

[B]

Making me uncomfortable that your hairball listens to our podcast.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Well, she loves me.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I'm not talking about personal experience, so I'm just talking about. I'm just talking about science.

[B]

This is just. This is a scientific conversation.

[A]

Yeah. The reason that breastfeeding can cause contractions is because when you're. When you nurse, your body releases oxytocin. Actually, oxytocin is the thing that eventually causes you to go into labor. So a lot of people's advice for going to labor is to just relax Basically, like, feel good, be happy. But also oxytocin is the same hormone that causes. Which causes uterine contractions is the one that helps your uterus shrink back down. So we talked last episode. Wait, how much times? 500 times.

[B]

Yeah, no, yeah, last episode we talked about how the. Or the last solo episode that we did without guests on, we talked about, I think it's a 500 time increase in the size of your.

[A]

So you kind of need those same contractions that sometimes they give you like medicine to like after births, just so it starts contracting back down because it's got a lot of work to get back down to be 1 500th of its size. So oxytocin also helps you do that. And yeah, a lot of people experience surprisingly painful cramping while breastfeeding in the early weeks. I never had surprising. I feel like it was just like the first day I experienced that and I didn't have like anything crazy afterwards. But I also don't have a very clear memory in general. But specifically postpartum, that is just a fog. Shall we move on to facts about sleep deprivation?

[B]

Yeah, fill me in.

[A]

Postpartum. So parents lose hundreds of hours of sleep, obviously in the first probably minimum year of their child's life. And I remember with our first, I was like terrified of that. I was like, how will we possibly function? Because we had uninterrupted sleep. We had that. We had that bliss for so long. Like the thought of like being woken up throughout the night multiple times and it can. Being completely out of our control was like, terrifying. Now this being our third time around, I have to say it's a lot less scary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, for sure it's less scary.

[A]

I'm like, oh man, that's gonna be tough. But we've.

[B]

We've done this whole process two times

[A]

now and we survived.

[B]

We survived. We have those badges fully evolved and acclimated to having kids that need us 24 7. And you know, are. Is the newborn gonna be quite a bit needier than our current children in the current state we're in? Of course. Like, we're. We almost have two kids fully potty trained now. That's pretty awesome to not need to change diapers anymore. I mean, that's huge. Yeah, that's a big deal. But, you know, we'll just go back to the diaper changes and it'll just be. It'll just be one kid that needs constant diaper changes and that's needs to

[A]

be Fred from my body.

[B]

That's manageable you know, manageable.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But here are some of the top five most shocking mental health effects of sleep deprivation. Okay, fill me in, babe, because I think a big part of the postpartum conversation is mental health, for sure, but mental health and like your quality of sleep, there's like a direct correlation there a lot of times. Hallucinations, which I've had friends that have experienced these postpartum, which is really scary. Like they saw spiders crawling up the walls like that. Weren't there, like, crazy stuff. Phantom baby syndrome, which is when many new parents think that they hear their baby crying or wake up convinced that they're holding the baby when the baby is safely asleep elsewhere.

[B]

That is real.

[A]

I get that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I get the phantom baby crying. And I'm telling you, it did not go away for like two years.

[B]

Constantly. That you'd be like, matt, Matt, Matt, go, Griff, he's crying, go get him. And I would run over and I'm like, he's just asleep, you know?

[A]

Yeah. No, seriously, I feel like that does not go away. I get that so bad. Do you not get that?

[B]

No, I know.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. It's the worst. Like when you're in the shower.

[B]

Well, that's why.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, I'd have to turn the shower off like a thousand times to, like, listen.

[B]

That' would always sleep with the baby. That's why we would sleep with the baby monitor on my side of the bed. Because it would. It would wake you up way too much. Just.

[A]

Yeah, that's the other thing. Like, I would. If I thought I heard a baby crying, I would go from being like, from what I was perceiving as deep sleep to like, wide awake. And then I would take me forever to go back to sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm like, no, I think I heard it. Like, it would really mess me up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Increased anxiety and catastrophic thinking, which is where, like, postpartum, like, anxiety, like, happens a lot. Emotional overreactions. Been there. I think a lot of this could be related to breastfeeding. I feel like I had a lot of overreactions around breastfeeding. It just really feels like life or death at some times. And I think you need to know that. I think all husbands and dads need to know that breastfeeding can feel like the most high stakes situation. Like it's. It's not rational, but it feels like. Feels like life or death for your baby and you're the only one that can. Can make it happen. I don't know. Yeah, it's not the case. But you don't know that when you're in the moment. It says impaired judgment comparable to alcohol intoxication. So being awake for 24 hours can impair cognitive performance. Similar similarly to being legally drunk.

[B]

I believe that I, I went on a, a trip with, with my buddies in college to go snowboarding in Colorado. And where's this going? And we would like, we drove through the night to get there and that was definitely dangerous. Like drive. With being that tired trying to drive, you're just like falling. You're like, whoa.

[A]

That's scary.

[B]

Right? So scary.

[A]

Don't ever do that again.

[B]

I know.

[A]

These are the most shocking physical effects. So those were the mental effects. These are the most shocking physical effects. Increased hunger and cravings. Really? I'm kind of surprised by that actually. Maybe it's just because I'm always hungry. No, that's an effective sleep deprivation.

[B]

Oh no, that makes sense.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You've never stayed up super late and then gotten the munchies where you just need to eat food because you're up really late.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true.

[B]

And it's like your body just needs fuel and you're tired. So to. To help fuel the how you feel, you just need. You need to eat something.

[A]

I guess that's true. And also I feel like I definitely did snack throughout the night when we had newborns.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, for sure.

[A]

Weakened immune system. Which that just makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Higher risk of accidents because your reaction times slow dramatically.

[B]

That actually that's how you hit your parents car.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

Even our, our Tesla even has a camera and a ton of sensors. Has everything to keep you from hitting a car.

[A]

A parked car. It was a parked car hit in the driveway.

[B]

Her parents parked car in our driveway.

[A]

Luckily only our vehicle was damaged.

[B]

I think that was cuz you took a unisum the night before and it hadn't really quite worn off.

[A]

And so it was cold medicine.

[B]

You were still asleep. It was cold medicine. Was it?

[A]

Yeah. Probably because I had a freaking weakened immune System. I took NyQuil.

[B]

NyQuil? Yeah.

[A]

And then I hit a parked vehicle. Just tapped it. But it's that that was true.

[B]

We still have that little indent on our test.

[A]

Yeah. Good memory. At this point.

[B]

Along with all the different dinged rims of our car from you hitting curbs.

[A]

Yeah. So bad.

[B]

Everybody comments on that. By the way. Anytime somebody sees our car, they're like, oh, you hit some curves recently. Like. Yeah, that's my wife.

[A]

Oh, shut up. Like, you've never hit a curve.

[B]

I've hit maybe one curb.

[A]

Oh. I hit them, like, daily. I feel like.

[B]

I'm like, we should get it fixed and we're just gonna mess.

[A]

Never get that fixed because I literally. I see this bumper sticker that says, hot girls hit curves, and I was like, I need that.

[B]

That's gonna hurt when. When we get your hot girl mom car with three rows this month.

[A]

No, it'll be taller, so I don't think I'll hit them as much.

[B]

You don't think so? Okay. It's gonna hurt.

[A]

I mean, I can't promise that it's not gonna happen. It's certainly gonna happen. Elevated blood pressure, muscular strain. I gotta be honest, whenever they take my blood pressure at the doctor's office, I never know what that reading means. And they're just like, that's good. And I'm like, great. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it might be a concern for me down the line because I feel like high blood pressure runs in our family. Thank you to Chili Pad for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[B]

In case you guys didn't know, Abby's pregnant. It's been harder for her to sleep at night, but recently we got a chili pad and it's been game changing, you guys.

[A]

I can't stop talking about it, and I honestly want to keep it in for those of my friends that don't have it, because I'm like, they're just. They don't. They don't know what they're missing. It's so amazing, you guys.

[B]

And that's exactly why we're huge fans of the Chilipad 2.0 by Sleep Me, the most advanced version of the bed cooling system. Built specifically for people who are tired of waking up hot and sweaty, the

[A]

Chilipad 2.0 actively cools or warms your bed using water. It's basically a thermostat for your bed, and water is key here. Fans just typically move hot air around, whereas the Chilipad uses actively touch chilled water to cool the bed, actually pulling heat away from your body. And it works with your existing mattress, so no new bed needed.

[B]

Visit WW Sleep Me Unplanned to get up to $255 off your Chilipad 2.0 with code UNPLANNED. This special offer is available for the unplanned podcast listeners and only for a limited time. Order today with free shipping and try it out for 30 days. You can return it for free if you don't like it.

[A]

With their sleep trial visit ww sleep s l e e p.me/unplanned and never wake up hot and tired again. But yeah, heart strain. Yeah. That. I believe that slower healing and recovery, which. That's just such a bad combo because your body has so much healing and recovering to do postpartum.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then the combination of sleep deprivation, it's just, it's. It's a difficult combination.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Having to heal physically postpartum with also getting no sleep or very little sleep or just fragmented sleep, it's just, It's a tough ride. It is a tough ride. But you know what?

[B]

We've.

[A]

We've gotten through it twice before and I have delusional confidence about this third time around. I feel like we're really going to learn from our past.

[B]

The thing that amazes me about you, Abby, is I mention vasectomy and you're like, I hate that. And then, and then you reading all of this, like, crazy stuff.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Just like. Yeah. It's just, you know.

[A]

Well, I talk a lot about the cost of things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for me, I'm like, it's worth all those costs, like, and then some. I would do it. I'll do it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I do it. And you know what? We didn't have necessarily the easiest postpartum because the first time around I had to get a major surgery.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know about major does that. Is that major surgery?

[B]

I mean, a hernia surgery is pretty.

[A]

It was double hernia repair. Yeah. And that one. That definitely was difficult with a three month old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the second time around, we just had two babies to take care of. And so, you know, there's just. It hasn't been, you know, a walk in the park and a colky baby, but I'm have. I'm feeling like this baby's gonna be so calm and everything's just gonna go great. That's how I'm feeling. I'm feeling really confident about it. I have a bonus fact for you, Matt Howard.

[B]

Bonus fact.

[A]

Researchers have found that after enough sleep deprivation, the brain can experience micro sleep, which is brief periods lasting a few seconds where parts of the brain essentially fall asleep without you realizing it, even while your eyes are open. This is one reason drowsy driving can be so dangerous.

[B]

I think that's.

[A]

Parts of your brain can fall asleep.

[B]

My, My dad does that for sure. You know, and I hope that I don't get that because that's. It's just weird. He's always Falling asleep at family functions. You just, like, look over, and there's my dad in a chair. I posted on my Instagram story about this too. There's so many times. There's been so many times everyone has

[A]

a family member that does that, just falls asleep.

[B]

Like, there's so much going on. Kids are screaming, and there's. There's John over the corner asleep on the sofa.

[A]

It's kind of. It's kind of sweet. Yeah, it is sweet.

[B]

It's just. It's just.

[A]

You're definitely gonna turn into that.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

You definitely are. You have. You already have some of the same sleep habits as him, so buckle up.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

When I think about our postpartum experiences I have. I can't go through. Go on without giving you mad props, though, because you carried the team, and. And that is something I'm like. I, like, actually still to this day, feel guilty about.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. Because I, like, obviously I was recovering postpartum, but I. I literally had the princess treatment, and I feel, like, less of a moment because of it. In some ways, you know, you're not less of a mom because you literally did the. All of the night shifts for the first six weeks for both of our kids. Sure, I would get up to pump, but, like, you were up every single night. And I think that's also why you are definitely more, like, a little bit more overwhelmed at the thought of being of, like, having a newborn than I am. Because for me, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, it was hard, but, like, I was sleeping in the master bedroom by myself all night. You're like, yeah, it's scary.

[B]

I know. Yeah. We were talking about all this, like, coming up, all. All this crazy postpartum stuff, and.

[A]

And I was, like, more comfortable and chill.

[B]

I know. Yeah. It's kind of. I'm. I'm just kind of like.

[A]

And now I know why.

[B]

Scary. It's scary.

[A]

It's because you were in the trenches. You were doing it, and you were doing it solo. And so, I mean, like, I think you're probably part of, like, 1% of dads that would even consider doing that.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

Oh, maybe even less. I mean, that's a big deal. I wouldn't want to do that all alone, even if I was in full peak physical capacity. You know what I mean? Capability. So, like, that's just one of those things where I'm like, I'll think about that for the rest of our marriage. Like, just, like, how you showed up for me and, like, showed up for our Baby, our kids have such a good, bonded relationship with you, even as, like, little tiny babies, because you were just there and, like, thank goodness to our job that you were able to be. But it doesn't make it easier, like, the fact that, like, what you were going through and it'll probably look different this time around, but that is just something that I'm like, yeah, I honestly do feel like a little bit less of a mom because of, like, those nights I wasn't in the trenches like you were. You were crushing it.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Yeah. And you're so good with babies now. I. I think it's my, like, favorite thing probably. Honestly, this is probably one of my all time favorite things. One of our friends has a baby and the baby's, like, upset. I'm like, give the baby to Matt. He knows what to do. And you are so natural with them.

[B]

That's the football hold. That's the whole.

[A]

I mean, that's your signature.

[B]

You know, if you got a colicky

[A]

baby, I can't do it. My arm is, like, literally not long enough.

[B]

You do need a longer arm to do it. But you. You put them on their belly. They feel a lot better on their belly. It kind of soothes all the, you know, indigestion or whatever it's going on inside their belly. And then you just give them a little tap, tap, tap.

[A]

Yeah. And you always are pacing. You're always walking around. You know what to do. And we also have talked a lot. Like, whenever we bring up conversations in postpartum, you're like, I'm just gonna wear that baby. You like, you're the king of baby wearing. Where.

[B]

Yeah, I wore our kids a lot that solely wrap. Which it shocked me. I was holding our friend's baby the other day, and my back started to hurt. I forgot.

[A]

I forgot about practice.

[B]

I know I'm out of practice. So it's like, we're gonna have to get used to that again.

[A]

Strengthen those muscles.

[B]

Sore. A sore back from carrying a baby around all the time, you know, and they're not that heavy, but, you know, you hold. You hold or wear a baby for a couple hours, and that strain, you know, it adds up.

[A]

Try breastfeeding, dude. I feel like I got the hunchback when I was, like, trying to figure that out. Oh, yeah. This is a good question, Matt. What do you think postpartum teaches you about marriage? That pregnancy doesn't. You know, what comes to mind for me? What is like, I don't think there's another time in your marriage where you will have, like, less time romantically, one on one with each other. Like, you just. You two in, like, a romantic atmosphere. Like, there will probably be a never. You're always with that baby. That baby's always present.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yet there's something so romantic about that whole experience about, like, you two first meeting the child that you created out of your love together and going through something difficult together and overcoming it as a team. And just like that teamwork and companionship and just also that aspect of vulnerability, like, with the mom being freshly postpartum and like, stroke. I mean, that's a very vulnerable, humbling time. Like, you're bleeding, you're changing. Like bandages, you're changing pads, you're changing. You're gotta get squirt bottles for crazy parts of your body. You got stitches, you got like. There's just so much going on and you're so vulnerable. But in a way, like, that was. That was so sweet that we got like, you that, like, I feel stronger because you've seen me in that state. You know what I mean? Twice.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

And I kind of, like. I think that's really special. And I also kind of think that maybe I'm wrong, but maybe this is part of the appeal of some people having unmedicated birth is like, the benefits to your marriage, like, going through that together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe it's a trauma.

[B]

We're trauma bonded together. Babe. We've been through hell and back. We literally, we. We've been through the sleep deprivation. We've been through the psychosis or whatever you call it. The hypno. The seeing spiders on the wall. I never saw spiders on the wall, but got pretty freaking close probably at times. So, you know, I think we've. Yeah. Going through the dark stuff kind of just brings you together.

[A]

Well, that's also just like a fact, like, too. It's just like overcoming obstacles together, like, grows a bond. We actually got the offer today for someone was wanting to do a daddy doula class.

[B]

Really?

[A]

So you.

[B]

What is this?

[A]

I think we'll still hire a doula, but then you could also be trained to be a D. Doula.

[B]

You're kidding me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's daddy doulas that.

[A]

No, like, you can train your own husband to be a dad, like, for me.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

I don't know what this entails.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Probably, like. I don't know. I feel like it includes back rubs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe you'll learn coaching things to say.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

About, like, breathing and stuff.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

You want to go to daddy? Doula training.

[B]

I. Sure, let's do it. I'm sure it would be helpful.

[A]

I was like, I feel like Matt would be so down, but I'll ask him. Like, I'll make sure I won't commit for him. But am I, like, am I pushing? Am I pressuring you too much?

[B]

I'm fine. Let's. I can do it.

[A]

You're gonna be a daddy doula.

[B]

I'm sure. I mean, I might as well. I mean, you're doing a V back, so I think you could probably use all the support you could get.

[A]

Yeah, that was something else. I was thinking, like, I feel like a lot of our postpartum plans changed because I've had a vaginal delivery and I've had a C section. And, like, I feel like that those postpartum experiences are very similar, but also I would prepare differently for each one of those. And so now it's, like, kind of changes something. Some things about our postpartum plan. This next list is postpartum things. Nobody warned us about night sweats being at the top of that list. I had no idea about that happening. Like, it is crazy. I'm not like, a very. I don't sweat in the night normally. I'm a sweaty person. I don't know. Do you think I'm sweaty?

[B]

Not really. But, I mean, thank goodness. Chili Pad sponsored our podcast because now we have this cool pad underneath our sheet, and it keeps us cold all night long. You can, like, change the temperature to make it warmer, cooler. And I think our friends when we were living on Oahu had this because, like, nobody in Hawaii has ac and they were telling us, oh, you got to get this thing. And we never did. We ended up moving out, like, before we could ever buy one. But I think that's going to come in really handy now that you have that, you know, chilled sleep pad right on the mattress, and you can control the temperature to whatever you want it to be.

[A]

Yeah, I definitely was not prepared the first two times. This time, I feel prepared to address the night sweats, but that was shocking. I think it has to do with the sudden change in hormones. But, like, I mean, I was just waking up. I needed multiple showers a day because of just, like, soaking through my clothes, plus the milk leakage. Like, you just need a lot of showers, and that's just a humbling aspect. Hair loss, also a big one. Especially, like, right at the front of your hair loss. My hair, I feel like it starts at, like, four months. Definitely experienced a lot of that. That's always like, kind of a sad time of postpartum because you physically start to feel better, and then you're, like, reminded that you're, like, like, still in the thick of it. Like, you brush your hair, and there's, like, a wad coming out. Postpartum rage. Oh, baby, did I get that? I, I, that's the thing. I'm, like, I feel powerless to, like, really do much different. But I know there's some things I can control to, like, help with that. And so I'm putting. I put that in my postpartum plan. But I'll have to report back to you if any of these methods work. Weird body changes. I mean, yeah, we can. I think the top of the weird bottom body changes I experienced postpartum was probably my boobs. The single most dramatic change.

[B]

So dramatic. Everyone's seen the video. It's honestly incredible. It's just.

[A]

It's just amazing to Abby's boobs.

[B]

And it's. It's remarkable.

[A]

It's remarkable. That's just one of the many weird body changes. Intrusive thoughts. That's scary. But, yeah, also very real. First postpartum poop. Very, very spooky. Very scary. But I'm not scared about it this time because I just know that I'm gonna do what I did the last few times, which is take a lot of Miralax and a lot of school stoppers every day. Matt's, like, beautiful. Amazing.

[B]

Yeah, that stuff works.

[A]

That stuff works. And then the first period postpartum. I wonder when I'm gonna get my period back. Postpartum. I feel like I'm always, like, really late to getting it back.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I also went on birth control, so.

[B]

And we. And we know what happens if you think that breastfeeding is a contraceptive.

[A]

You know, you gotta do it right, and we didn't do it right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So we're not gonna rely on that even once.

[B]

You think you can slip by one time. Wrong. Can't do that.

[A]

We actually slipped by once, and we got away with it. And then I think that built some confidence.

[B]

Yeah, we got this.

[A]

But it's such a blessing. It really is. Okay, now moving on to your guys's postpartum non negotiables, which we pulled, you guys, actually, because I'm still trying to make our plan, and I definitely think there's some areas that could use revising, and I'm getting new ideas every day, especially from you guys.

[B]

By the way, I think it'd be fun to have you all submit questions for us each and every week on the podcast. I think this should be like a recurring segment that we have. If you've listened to Abby's new show with our sister in law, Abigail, they have. Wow, that's crazy. They have all these, all these cool,

[A]

hip name all of our segments.

[B]

Branded segments. Gosh, you're gonna put me on the spot.

[A]

Ask Abby's.

[B]

Ask Abby's is one.

[A]

The hope in the hard.

[B]

Got your hope in the heart.

[A]

Always hungry.

[B]

I know that Always hungry was one.

[A]

Oh, my God. Tune in next. Tune in one of these.

[B]

I'm sorry. Okay.

[A]

I talk about you a lot, so thank you.

[B]

Positive or negative?

[A]

A little bit of both.

[B]

Okay. Hey, that's fine. Hey, I'm a human, so. But yeah. Well, if you guys have an idea for what our segment could be for when you guys submit, if anything comes

[A]

to mind, if any of you are creative, let us know. Thank you to Unreal for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[B]

We are currently potty training, which means that every time our son goes to the bathroom, we give him a canned

[A]

in in the proper place. That's the key there. You know what, that can happen a lot throughout the day. So that is why we feel better about rewarding our son very frequently using Unreal treats. Specifically their new peanut Butter Drops. They're colorful. They're the perfect little size. They have ingredients that you actually want to be in your child's body and in my own because I also require a sweet treat many times throughout the day.

[B]

And Unreal candy has way less sugar, which makes us feel a lot better about giving it to our son who's potty training. Unreal's new launch Peanut butter drops reinvents the poppable bite sized peanut butter snack. You grew up with a taste that's even better than you remember.

[A]

With 33% less sugar than the leading brand organic peanut butter and 4 grams of protein per serving, that is some candy that you can be happy about.

[B]

This is their first non chocolate product made especially for all the peanut butter lovers out there. You can also find Unreal products, including their new peanut butter Drops anywhere cravings hit, including at Whole Foods, Target, Costco and other grocery stores.

[A]

As a special offer for Our listeners, visit unrealsnacks.comunplanned to get $4 off a bag of UnReal, that's unrealsnacks.comunPlanned terms and conditions apply. So Stephanie says, mom takes care of baby, dad takes care of everyone, slash everything else.

[B]

Yeah, that's a Good one. That's a good take.

[A]

That is a good take.

[B]

I feel like that's something that I got wrong in the past. I think I was so overwhelmed with a baby.

[A]

Like you did the baby.

[B]

Like, I kind. I kind of took care of baby a lot. And then I think I probably could have, you know, it was my fault. It was my fault, I think. No, it wasn't your fault. I think I just thought, like, oh, my gosh, I need to, like, take on this responsibility. When I think. I think the more natural way of doing it is, yeah, mom takes care of baby. Dad takes care of mom.

[A]

Yes, I like that.

[B]

And that way you feel, like, supported and you feel everything that you need to feel, but then you also gain the confidence of taking care of baby yourself.

[A]

Yeah. Because I did. Because you took over so many things I do remember, like, lacking a lot of confidence. I got over it quickly. But, like, that was like, not a good feeling. Like, I didn't like that feeling. I felt really out of control. Whereas, like, I think it'd be really good to do it the other way, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't think I was being a bump on a log during that time, but I don't. I don't really think that we had our roles well defined.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you were just like in mixed Mr. Fix it mode.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so helpful and wanting to take care of me by taking care of the baby. But then I was kind of like. Like I was just in a weird state too.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So.

[B]

So I think that's really good.

[A]

That's a great idea.

[B]

Good, good take.

[A]

Macy says ice pack pads, they say saved me. I don't know if I ever used ice pack pads.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

[A]

No, now I use that foam.

[B]

Wait, maybe one time you did.

[A]

I think I did.

[B]

Maybe. Maybe with Griffin, we should get some ice pack pads with our first baby. I think. I think that was a thing. But not for very long, I don't think. Maybe just like, you know, day one or two.

[A]

Yeah. I think they did give me an ice pack pad in the hospital.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Once again, such a blur. I don't remember. This is so crazy, but I remember it hurting that. That bad down there afterwards.

[B]

This one. This one was pretty spicy. Things I'm doing differently postpartum. This one says my husband. So I'm guessing this person has a new husband.

[A]

Is that what that means?

[B]

I thought. I think so. I don't know. This is from someone named Hannah.

[A]

Hannah. Hannah. We need some Explanation.

[B]

We need to know if you have a new husband. Or maybe.

[A]

No, maybe she's just saying the same thing, too. Like her husband is going to do a different role. I feel like the emojis kind of making me think that it's a new husband.

[B]

I think she has a new husband.

[A]

That seems drastic, Hannah. But maybe that needed to happen.

[B]

The thing that makes me sad is when people don't. They don't make it through the postpartum, you know, craziness.

[A]

No, I. You should never be allowed to make any big life decision. I stand. This is a hill I'll die on. You should not be allowed to make any big decisions. One year postpartum.

[B]

Okay. For. For 12 months after having a baby for 12 months. Make any big life decisions?

[A]

No big life decisions. Including having another baby.

[B]

Which we did do that.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying we did everything right.

[B]

It was a fun surprise and it all worked out. Our kids are best friends.

[A]

Maybe we shouldn't do two back. Two more. Two more clothes.

[B]

I know. Yeah. That.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Big gang.

[B]

Big gang. What?

[A]

Elena says my snacks are mine and mine only. This is true. Postpartum hunger is worse than pregnancy hunger.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And I don't even think it's because of postpartum. I think it's because of the early breastfeeding. You're just making so much milk.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

The hunger is unquenchable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not like cravings, like pregnancy. It's like, literally whatever I can fill my stomach with. Yeah, I remember that. And also, the thirst is inside. Insane. Aaron Switzer says, don't kiss my bab.

[B]

Don't kiss my baby.

[A]

Don't kiss my baby.

[B]

My baby.

[A]

Mom gets a hot shower every day.

[B]

That is good. Yeah. I think if you, like, go up to somebody and just start trying to toss baby.

[A]

No one really should kiss a newborn baby except for mom and dad. Baby.

[B]

Yeah. You need to ask for permission first.

[A]

No, no. Don't ask to kiss my baby either.

[B]

You're right. Yeah. Don't even do it.

[A]

Don't even kiss my baby.

[B]

Unless if a parent offers for you to hold their baby.

[A]

You know, to hold, yes, but not to kiss. Yeah.

[B]

I feel that we don't need extra germs spreading around, especially when they're that fragile and, you know, we don't need them getting sick.

[A]

I wouldn't want anyone to kiss my other kids either.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

No one k. I don't want anyone kissing my kids.

[B]

It is fun to kiss a baby.

[A]

Though You. Yeah, you're the dad. You're acting like you've kissed a random person's baby. You've never done that?

[B]

I've never kissed random person.

[A]

Yeah, I've never done that close to that.

[B]

I kiss. I kiss my kids. I kiss my babies.

[A]

Matt's secretly a baby lover.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

You are.

[B]

I feel like I have ptsd.

[A]

No, you are always drawn to babies.

[B]

I feel like I, I. I personally love two and three. I think that's my.

[A]

I love that age too, because they can.

[B]

We can have conversations.

[A]

Her other one was, mom gets a hot shower every day. And I'm like, yeah, that's good.

[B]

That's really good.

[A]

That's the bam. In my opinion, you gotta shower. That's just basic hygiene. There's a lot coming out of you at that point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kelbell says lactation cookies for 2am feeds. Me personally, I'm kind of afraid of lactation cookies.

[B]

See, why did I find myself also eating the lactation cookies?

[A]

I don't know if that's good.

[B]

Do they even do anything? Because, like, I wasn't lactating.

[A]

I don't know. I feel like you should just eat regular cookies.

[B]

What makes lactation cookies so special? What makes them?

[A]

Ingredients, like, usually, like, brewer's yeast, brewers yeast, fenugreek. Right.

[B]

How do you even know what that is?

[A]

I don't know, because I've had two babies. I breastfed, and I also had to intentionally avoid it because it had an oversupply, and that stuff was messing me up. Any lactation product, I can only have at least once. My, like, honestly, six months of breastfeeding, then I feel like then we can supplement because it was making things go crazy, and I got mastitis, and I'm not doing that again. Micah Morgan says you can leave the room if you don't like seeing my baby eat, especially in my house.

[B]

Oh, so she's just saying, yo, I'm gonna breastfeed my kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't need to cover up, you know, Which. Hey, you know, Totally.

[A]

At least at the beginning. Like, it's naked feedings, old only. It's just too. There's.

[B]

It's too confusing. That's so hard. Especially if you're a new mom trying to manage a freaking, like, breastfeeding cover while you're feeding your kid.

[A]

And it's.

[B]

That's.

[A]

The baby's just, like, lost, confused, and so, like. And here's the thing about breastfeeding. For me, I didn't feel like it was easier the second time, but I still felt like there was just such a learning curve. And it's because the baby. You and the baby have to learn together. And that's starting fresh every single time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm already prepared to just do naked feedings. Only for the first time. First at least two weeks. I like it, Abigail. I mean, I'll keep my pants on.

[B]

Okay. Okay. This is. That's good. I'm glad you're keeping your pants on. This next one is from Marie.

[A]

Which ones did you find?

[B]

This is right on. This is. This one's great. It says nipple butter. Laughing face emoji is what she said. But. And that's like right in the. In the same realm as. As the breastfeeding. You never really used any nipple butter, did you?

[A]

I did use nipple butter, but then when I started using nipple shields, I didn't need it.

[B]

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[A]

I. I'm team nipple shield.

[B]

Gosh, there's been so much time that's traversed since we traversed since. Since we were.

[A]

We have forged ahead many years.

[B]

It's been three years.

[A]

I know. I do feel out of touch a little bit.

[B]

I think it's gonna hit us really hard.

[A]

Don't say that. I think we're gonna like speaking positive things.

[B]

Yes, positive. Let's put out good energy and vibes into. Out into the universe.

[A]

Abigail. Bruce says Kendall had awful postpartum anxiety. And reading on a device that's not my phone helps so much.

[B]

Ah, yeah.

[A]

Agree Abigail. That you'll see that's part of our plan as well when we get to our non negotiables. Olivia Nelson says seeing a therapist for at least the first three months.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

I should honestly try that this time.

[B]

I'm all for that. I think that would be great.

[A]

Okay. Maybe we should add that to ours.

[B]

Some couples there.

[A]

See, I'm getting good ideas. I already have a therapist, so.

[B]

Yeah, I think let's get.

[A]

Let's schedule texted me.

[B]

Let's get therapy scheduled for ride. You know, within the first week of having the baby.

[A]

You're kidding me.

[B]

Maybe the first month of having.

[A]

I'm not leaving the house.

[B]

The first year of having the baby.

[A]

Yeah, at least the first year. That's all postpartum as we're learning. Riley Alexander says after a C section, leave the hospital asap. I swear I'm in more pain when I'm there. Yes, but the how are you leaving asap if you had a C section, they make you stay longer. I. I honestly really the Hospital was mental health

[B]

hell.

[A]

Yes. And I don't. I see these videos. They're like me and my husband on vacation. I mean in the hospital to have our baby because we have toddlers at home. I'm like, this is vacation. Vacation. The, the hospital is like my worst case scenario. I feel like a caged animal.

[B]

I feel bad for the people.

[A]

I feel like I'm gnawing on the jail cell bars in the hospital.

[B]

I spoke to the nurses last time we were in the hospital for birthday and they were telling me that some parents, like one parent just stays home with the kids and then the mom will just go and give birth.

[A]

A lot of people have to do that. They don't have child care.

[B]

And I think that's, that's so sad.

[A]

I never would have been capable of that.

[B]

Would be so lonely. To give birth by yourself.

[A]

Oh, to give birth by yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the birth, yes. Oh no, no, no, no. I can't do that. That's scary.

[B]

But some people just don't have the support system to have somebody with their kids.

[A]

That makes me sad. Really makes me really sad. JM Seeger says the fridge in our bedroom for milk and snacks. You are on to something. We did that our second go around and I think we're bringing it back this time. It's so nice. Especially if it's. If you have a two story house mini fridge. Oh, it just makes it so nice.

[B]

Yeah. Gotta refrigerate that stuff.

[A]

K a Brecht says burp rags, diapers, wipes need to be in every room. That's actually a pretty good idea.

[B]

See, I would just burp our kids over the sink because they would. They had so much, had so much indigestion. Like every time I burped them. There's just tons of stuff coming up. So the sink was the place to

[A]

do it because I had just shot so much milk.

[B]

I have no idea. Yeah, maybe you. I think that that's probably what it was.

[A]

I've never seen kids puke as much as ours. And they were fine with it first. Yeah, yeah. Like projectile.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe he had acid reflux.

[B]

Mrs. I don't know if this is Wiener or Weiner, but I'm gonna say wiener because it's funnier. Mrs. Wiener said Granny panties. So comfy. LOL.

[A]

Granny panties.

[B]

Are you team Granny Panties after giving birth?

[A]

You think I'm putting a thong on after everything that's happening down there?

[B]

Probably not. Okay,

[A]

That reminds me, I need to add that to my Target pickup because those, those underwears cannot be repurposed.

[B]

Oh gosh.

[A]

Or shouldn't be. I swear by the kindred bravely ones though, they are amazing. And I will be restocking on those for sure.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Especially because you're going through multiple a day probably.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Merm. Face says paper plates. No dishes will be washed. That's a good idea.

[B]

That's really good.

[A]

Why have we just now discovered paper plates, by the way?

[B]

And the environment will forgive you. You're having a kid, you know.

[A]

No, you know, I actually heard. Okay, someone can fact check me on this. That the environmental impact of running a dishwasher is actually more like harming to the environment at large than a disposable paper plate.

[B]

You heard it right here, folks. Everyone should get rid of their dishwasher.

[A]

How? I'm not spreading misinformation.

[B]

Only use paper plates. That's what I heard.

[A]

You're answering told me that your aunt did.

[B]

I don't know about that, babe. That sounds a little. That sounds like it's not true. We're gonna have to put a disclaimer on the episode. Now that's like disclaimer misinformation. This is misinformation. Please be good. The environment. Gosh. Paper plates are great though. I. One of my college roommates would only would exclusively eat off paper plates.

[A]

I think a lot of college students do that. I think a lot of people do that just like on the regular in their own household.

[B]

And look, there are ones that are compostable. But then how many people do you know that have a compost?

[A]

We need to get a compost. I want one. Yeah, I want that.

[B]

But where are we gonna put that? In our yard?

[A]

No, you can get a countertop compost.

[B]

That sounds disgusting. I don't want that in my house.

[A]

Matt, we're gonna do some research. Okay.

[B]

Oh gosh.

[A]

The last one is from Emily Hobus. She says paternity leave. That's so nice. That is so nice.

[B]

That is nice.

[A]

Speaking of paternity leave, here's a couple facts about paternity.

[B]

Fun facts. Hit me with.

[A]

The United States does not have a federal law guaranteed guaranteeing paid paternity leave. Nationally, the only legal protection for fathers is the Family and Medical Leave Act FMLA, which provides eligible employees up to 12 weeks of unpaid job protected leave for the birth, adoption or foster placement of a child. But I mean, if it's unpaid, that is not an option for a lot of. For most people.

[B]

Yeah, that is. That's. Yeah.

[A]

Well in contra. So if we're comparing the US to other countries. We, we know that the US is not favorable.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

This, and in Spain, fathers are entitled to 16 weeks of fully paid leave matching the length of maternity leave.

[B]

Okay, is that, my question though, is that for small businesses too? Because it makes sense for a corporation, you know, they got the deep pockets to, to fund this stuff. But if you're a small, I think

[A]

I have to imagine it's everything that

[B]

must have to be for companies that have more than like, like 30 employees or something.

[A]

Instead of traditional paternity leave, Sweden offers 480 days of shared parental leave.

[B]

That's crazy. I mean, that's awesome. Some of these European countries, really good. It's pretty crazy. I mean we, we are fortunate to have the pockets to pay for some of the crazy medical bills we've gotten hit with over the past couple years. But you know, that's like that for a lot of people that, that puts you into debt. That puts you into so many. So much stress and anxiety dealing with, you know, medical bills that pile up. Especially when you have something that happens. You're not gonna like, not take your kid to the doctor if they have some rare disease or rare disorder. You're not gonna not like take care of yourself if you get diagnosed with cancer. Right. So I think, I think it's dope that, that some of these other European countries have a lot more benefits health wise. Right.

[A]

They definitely have their perks in other countries compared to the U.S. that's true. Rapid fire. Do a few more of these because these are really good.

[B]

Okay, go.

[A]

Silverettes is what Amanda says she swears by Silverettes. I've never used Silverettes.

[B]

What is a Silverette?

[A]

They're great. They're just like those little teepees for your nipples that are made out of silver that heal them.

[B]

I thought a lot of moms just lose sensation altogether.

[A]

Yeah, that also happens.

[B]

That's what we've heard from some of our.

[A]

That does happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This one is from Lee Solorzano says shopping spree at six weeks postpartum. Six weeks feels a little soon. But I do do agree that you do need a new wardrobe early postpartum because it feels like actually six weeks isn't a bad idea because you want to feel, you want to get stuff that fits your body at that stage that you feel comfortable in and you feel confident in because it's a hard time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The closet needs a refresh. Any excuse to get a closet refresh. Honestly, Jessica says, hear me out. We got a Bidet toilet seat. Life changing. I'm terrified of bidets. And especially at that time, I do not want any water shooting up that area.

[B]

Why is it kind of a nice little. It's a little cleanse. You know, I'm terrified. Something that bothers me. Like, something. And I don't know if this was just because I grew up with brothers and therapist about this and. And I know what he's about to say. At one point in my life, there might have been hand me down undies at one point with poop streaks in them. And that freaked me out.

[A]

Like, you and wiping are, like, extreme.

[B]

My tushy's got to be clean.

[A]

Yeah, you do it to our kids. You wipe them. So I don't want them walking clean. Anyway.

[B]

We don't need to get into this. You don't want doodoo down there.

[A]

That's.

[B]

That's gross.

[A]

An alarming amount of people responded to our poll on Instagram by saying, Jimmy John's postpartum. Someone explain what this is about, because we didn't have Jimmy John's postpartum.

[B]

Well, it's, It's.

[A]

It just tastes amazing. Oh, because of the cuts.

[B]

Cold deli meat. You can have cold cuts again, confidently, which is awesome. I love, I love that people are so good right now rallying behind that. And Jersey Mike's.

[A]

Jersey Mike's has never had listeria outbreak. I'm just gonna say my OB told me that.

[B]

She. She did say that.

[A]

And I still won't do it because I'm paranoid.

[B]

What did you get last minute? Jersey Mike's. You got the cheesesteak.

[A]

I get the chicken. Cheesesteak.

[B]

Still so good meat past 165.

[A]

Maybe also Jimmy John's too, because you can throw it in the fridge and eat it whenever it's a convenient time. It stays good. Cat says freezer meals seriously make the biggest difference. I don't know why I have a weird relationship with the freezer, but I see where that's a really convenient option.

[B]

See, frozen food sometimes can give me the ick.

[A]

Yeah, see, we both get the ick

[B]

from frozen, especially with how I know how quickly you can grill fresh meat. Why would you spend just. Why would you spend more time heating up a frozen meal in the oven? I guess it's technically easier, but it just. There's so much. Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

No, I'm talking about. No, they're talking about making homemade meals and then freezing them.

[B]

Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's good.

[A]

That's A good idea. Well, we probably won't ever be that much of a planners to make that happen, but I think that's a great idea.

[B]

And we are team leftovers. We love leftovers.

[A]

We love leftovers. I am the least diva. I'm eating leftovers from like three days ago.

[B]

I ate leftovers today. I ate leftovers yesterday. You always eat leftovers.

[A]

We always eat leftovers.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

Okay, finally. Here are our non negotiables for this round. Postpartum. And we're kind of. I'm not gonna say we're experts, but I'm saying we've been around the block a couple times, so we've learned some things, we're dropping some things, and we're taking on some new things. This, this lap around the block with baby number three. This is a very new rule for us and very contradictory to what we did previously. And we are not allowing any people to stay the night at our house for the first month.

[B]

That's a brand new one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're laying down the wall.

[A]

We were kind of scared to say that one, but everyone received it super well.

[B]

I know. And I. I think that was a great call. I'm glad that you. I'm glad that you made that decision. And I'm. I'm all on board with it.

[A]

It. I think that I am generally someone that loves having a lot of people around. Postpartum is a unique period of my life where that is extremely over stimulating to me. And I didn't really realize it until poop at the fan last time around.

[B]

I think you're just so.

[A]

And we have great family and people that were saying us were so nice and easy and accommodating and like, helpful. It was just too much for my brain.

[B]

Well, I think. I think you're such an amazing host and you care so much about other people and you're always thinking about other people's needs to a fault, though. To where it's like, you. You have at times, like, done it so much to where it ends up, like, seriously negatively affecting you. And so I'm glad that you were able to recognize that and recognize, hey, I need to prioritize my needs while I'm postpartum with a baby.

[A]

Yeah, that's probably fair because I feel like men. Other people were around. It wasn't things that they were doing. It was more so I'm putting on myself like, oh, I want to be able to do this for them since they're in my house. Like, I want to do these things.

[B]

Now, if a family member is like, hey, I want to come to your house.

[A]

Anyone can come during the day.

[B]

First week while you're. Yeah. During the day. Or, like, do something. Of course. My gosh. Or even just to hang out. Like, we can still hang out, play some cards or something. Probably during the day. But, yeah, we're not. We're not hosting dinners. We're not hosting people spending the night.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. People can come during the day. People can come. Yeah. Play cards if they want to do a chore for us. Amazing.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, things like that. But we're not gonna do overnights or. Yeah. Hosted meals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Along similar lines, we had decided that our older two kids are gonna stay the night at grandma and grandpa's house for the first two or for the first week. And so we'll see them all during the day, similarly, and hang out with them. They'll meet their baby brother. They'll spend all that good quality time just for when they sleep. They'll sleep elsewhere. So we can focus the two of us on, like, those early night shifts. Like, those early night shifts will be really hard even if we have a successful V back. Like, it'll be hard physically to just get up and out of bed to breastfeed. They'll be. We'll both be very tired, and they'll already be there from when we're in the hot from our hospital stay. So then just from, like, when the baby comes, it'll be a week, and then we'll see them during the days, and then at night, we'll have that time to bond and really, like, just have that quality time with our new little baby boy.

[B]

What do you think you'll do this time? You think you'll be pumping in the night?

[A]

Yes, I plan to pump in the night.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I feel like that actually really helped us get the baby back to sleep as quick as possible, which then made our second a really good sleeper. Because, like, obviously, if your kid's gonna be a difficult sleeper, they're gonna be a difficult sleeper, but I do think that helped.

[B]

So you're gonna do breastfeeding during the day, pumping at night.

[A]

That's a plan.

[B]

And then if I'm. I think the game plan that we discussed is I'm, you know, the toddler. The toddler man. I'm, you know, doing the nighttime routine, doing the morning routine, doing all things toddlers. You're doing the nighttime with the baby this time around.

[A]

Yeah, that's number three.

[B]

Okay. So I guess my question for you is Are you going to have, like, a bottle ready for when baby wakes up and then give the. Give baby the bottle, and then when baby's back asleep, then you're gonna pump?

[A]

No, I'm actually thinking I'm gonna wear a wearable pump while I feed the baby a bottle. Oh, and do that.

[B]

Wait, that's kind of cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you gonna get one of the ones that you can walk around with? We've never had one of those.

[A]

Never had one of those.

[B]

That's exciting.

[A]

I know. Do a wearable pumpkin with a bottle, which seems so dumb. I understand where people are like, why don't you just nurse the baby? But if this baby is anything like our other two babies, really slow nursing experience. And then they would always fall asleep because it took so long, and they were just so comforted. And they just, like, it just made it really, really long. And it made our night. Like, I'm telling you, anytime they'd wake up, we'd be up for at least an hour. So we're like, no, we'll just pop them a bottle. And both of our kids absolutely guzzled bottles.

[B]

And we don't need you seeing spiders in the wall. We need you.

[A]

I don't want to see spiders on the wall.

[B]

We need you getting your sleep.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So that's good.

[A]

So, yeah, like you said, once we're like, I feel physically more better. I'm gonna fully do the night shift, so then you can rest up, because there's no point both of us being tired. Or there's no point both of us. We'll both be tired, but there's no point in both of us getting interrupted sleep. And you wake up with our two hyperactive toddler boys and put them to bed. You'll do the morning and night shift with them, and then I'll do the shift with the babies throughout the night. And then obviously, I feel like if I can just, like, maybe I need a Hail Mary. You'll be there for me.

[B]

Yeah, I'm assuming. Yeah, of course I need a Hail

[A]

Mary, which I'm sure will happen a few times, but really want to work on my newborn confidence this time around. And then, yeah, that is kind of how we'll do things. We also talked about having a nighttime station. While we're on the topic of nights, we have this area of our bedroom where we have this, like, big empty counter, and I have this vision for it. I actually need. Do need to get electrical moved. I'm contacting electrician, really, because a lot of these things require electricity. But we want to get, like. I think we're gonna just get all the gadgets that we can get that we never got the past couple times for whatever reason. Bottle warmer. This is the big ticket one that I. But I've heard it's game changing. Is a bottle wash.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

So I can put the pump parts and the bottles in there in our room upstairs, and then that can all get washed while I go back to sleep. I said bottle warmer. A mini fridge for breast milk and for snacking during breastfeeding in the night. Diapers, obviously. Fresh jammies. Like, all. I make that whole station all decked out and perfect. And I'm really looking forward to that setup up. I think that's me. Great.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna make it just. It's gonna be so fun because that's the other thing. Oh. I want to get a little lamp so I don't have to turn. The overhead lighting really influences my mood. Like, if it feels really scary and daunting and all the overhead lights on, it'll just make it so much more scary when the baby wakes up at night. But if I can just set some nice mood lighting, maybe get some fairy lights over there.

[B]

Wait, now I'm wondering, Am I gonna. Am I gonna sleep in our boys room? Am I. Am I sleeping? Like, have we. Am I gonna sleep in the. Do you want me to sleep with you, or do you want me sleeping with her?

[A]

Boys sleep somewhere else so the baby's not waking up constantly.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They would love if you slept with them.

[B]

Maybe we're all gonna. Maybe me and our boys are gonna.

[A]

Yeah, we're having the guest bedroom.

[B]

I guess we could all cuddle together in the guest bedroom.

[A]

Well, your parents will eventually be staying with us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then you can sleep with the boys.

[B]

Okay. I might need to get another twin mattress, though, then.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we'll have to figure that one out.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you to Cash App for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. When it comes to parenting, a money lesson that I'm trying to pass down to our kids is to spend less than you make.

[A]

Honestly, now is the time to start those conversations and start developing that financial literacy in our children. And that's also why I'm really excited about what Cash App is launching for when they get a little bit older. They're developing something really cool for all the parents out there with teenagers. So we know you're already trying to keep a million different things under control, and so does Cash App that's why Cash App is here to help make sure your teens money and their spending isn't adding to that craziness. It's never too early for your kids to start saving. Like we said earlier, small steps today can build strong habits tomorrow. Cash App is now offering teens interest on savings so they can grow money faster, all under your guidance.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash Apps Bank Partners Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton bank member FDIC Cash App Visa Debit Flex cards issued by Sutton bank member FDIC and the Bancorp Bank NA pursuant to a license from Visa usa. See terms and conditions for Sutton Prepaid Card, Sutton Debit Flex Card and Bank Corp. Debit Flex Card Savings provided by Cash App a Block Inc.

[A]

Brand.

[B]

Visit Cash App Legal Podcast for full disclosures.

[A]

Okay, this one is more along the lines of like working now. Obviously there's a lot of disclaimers here. We don't have a conventional job. We really take it like it's probably one of the biggest blessings, the flexibility that what we do for work gives us. It's like I'm so grateful. It's like literally one of the biggest benefits. But our plan this go around is no posting anything at all for a week once baby's born. So that week is like just fully focusing on baby us healing and just really soaking in those moments. I think now like after two other, two other babies, we know how fast that first week goes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like I just want to be fully focused on that and not all these other elements. So this doesn't mean we're not going to film things. It just means we're there will be no posting, there'll be no I won't be visiting the platforms. Like there just won't be any of that. And so yeah. Be prepared for that. In case you're wondering, if we do go dark, then that probably means that a baby has come. We'll probably say like, okay, bye, guys. It looks like it's baby time. Or we could post that video that's like, if you see this and that means baby's coming.

[B]

Yeah, we've done that before in the past, too.

[A]

We. We can do that.

[B]

We went dark.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I guess. You know what? I don't know if we went dark on our podcast, though, because I think we had stuff pre recorded, so there were still. There were clips going out.

[A]

Do you want to know what my friends told me today?

[B]

What. What do they say when we went

[A]

to or had a toddler play date? They're like. I was like, well, what am I gonna do about going dark with all the podcast? I was like, I guess I'll just have to film a bunch in advance. That seems crazy. And they're like, no worries. We'll do your podcast for you. So they might do. I don't. They.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

They might hop on. Do Always Here for Us.

[B]

Maybe that's when Val could make a cameo. Everybody. Everybody on Always Here was asking you, like.

[A]

Or even Kaylin was like, I'll just. Just I. I'm gonna go. I'll bring you a meal, and I'll just make sure you're tucked up in bed, and then I'm gonna go do your podcast for you. And then I was like, that would be great.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And here's the thing I know about that, my friends, is that they will do it. They literally will. That none of them do social media. Like, I mean, they all have personal accounts, but they would certainly do that for me, and I really appreciate that for them. So I don't know, maybe just look, look, look for that. Maybe Matt will be doing some solo episodes of Unplanned.

[B]

You never know.

[A]

Or maybe I'll pop in here just with a baby attached to me, and then maybe we'll just leave early. We'll just. Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of flexibility in that time.

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[A]

We'll just see what I'm capable of. I don't know. It's. There's a lot of unknowns along similar lines. This is not for, like, you know, work wise. This will be more just, like, for personal enjoyment wise. I'm going to extremely limit my screen time. I already do this. But, like, I think it's extremely important for me personally, postpartum, to not be Scrolling. It's so easy to. Because you're sitting a lot, you're nursing a lot, you're alone a lot. Like, it's easy to just scroll. But mental health wise, that's just. You're. I'm too vulnerable at that time to just be doing something that makes my mental health go to trash.

[B]

So instead what we'll be doing is healthy screen time, which is.

[A]

I call this healthy screen time tv.

[B]

Isn't that funny how back in the

[A]

day is like the healthy version?

[B]

When we were kids, I remember how my parents told me TV was bad. And so I literally thought that if I looked at a mirror at the TV that it wouldn't be bad for me because I thought the act of looking at the TV was bad.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

That funny.

[A]

Yeah. You certainly had some OCD.

[B]

Yeah, I did. I 100 I didn't. I do. But yeah. That. Something about TV just seems so much more. Hell, it seems more wholesome, more healthy. Yeah. Than just. It's slower than the algorithms, all the apps. Right. It's all.

[A]

It's all optimized around retention things too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also when there's a potential that you could see something negative about yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That really does. Threw an extra loop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Extra loophole in there. But my mom actually has one of those portable TVD or TVD's. Those portable TV's that I'm going to. I've already said I would love to borrow that postpartum, so. Because we don't have a TV in our bedroom. Because I don't normally want that.

[B]

I think it's kind of cool.

[A]

But it's so nice. I'm like, I'm gonna probably watch Gilmore Girls. I just never seen Gilmore Girls, but I thought that that would be an excellent postpartum show. That' fun because it's so happy and light and just like. It's like mindless but not like brain rot. You know what I mean?

[B]

You can just roll that thing around.

[A]

I've never. I've also never seen Friends.

[B]

No way.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I would watch Friends with you. I've actually never.

[A]

It.

[B]

I've never watched a season of Friends.

[A]

That's the time I'm going to watch Friends. Gilmore Girls, like all the great British break baking shows I've never seen. It's a good time.

[B]

The new season of House of the Dragon is coming out soon.

[A]

No, that's the most triggering show that

[B]

did trigger you because there was. There was like a.

[A]

There's a lot of graphic birth scenes and.

[B]

Oh yeah. There was A birth where the mom and the baby died in the birth. So that would be not good.

[A]

Don't watch it. Don't watch it. That is really triggering. I'm. I'm actually so serious. That show is crazy.

[B]

So maybe I'll be watching that show by myself. Off.

[A]

Yeah. I will not be tuning in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, not at least in that fragile time period.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's all we got for our new non negotiables. Except I'm gonna take on some of yours. If I was having a C section, my other non negotiable was going to be that I was going to take the pain medication.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I didn't do that last time and I really think that that didn't serve me well. Yeah. Also, I'm gonna go to bed early. I don't know why we stayed up so late post, like with newborns before. I think it's because we were scared to go to bed because we knew that they were gonna wake up. But I don't. I just think it was a bad cycle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Go to bed cycle. Give yourself as much time in bed as you can. So then when you can sleep, you can sleep. Should we move to Agree to disagree.

[B]

I think we should.

[A]

Okay, agreed to disagree. Postpartum edition. A postpartum plan is more important than a birth plan.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Because there's more. You can actually, there's more certainties with a postpartum plan than a birth plan.

[B]

Yeah. Postpartum is 12 to 18 months and the birth is a day. And also most people, I'm assuming, are going to a hospital where if you have a whole birth plan planned out, I know so many people that they have.

[A]

Good to have a birth plan.

[B]

It's a. Yeah, it's a good. It's great. And it's good to attend the classes and everything. But. But so many people at SAD I hear, will come in with this like perfect idea of what's going to happen and then none of it goes according to plan and it makes them so down. So I think. Yeah. Probably preparing a little bit more for postpartum is probably the move.

[A]

Yeah. There's more within your control, I would say, postpartum wise.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I will also say that this is something that I quickly learned after having both of our kids. Having a game plan between you and your spouse for nighttime wake ups makes for way less conflict. And also it's just way less stressful because it's like, okay, when baby wakes up, you do this, I do this, we do this, and then we get back to bed. Like, having that plan just streamlines everything, and it just makes for just a lot less, like, resentment, bitterness, like, things like that. And just, like, a lot more confidence because it can be so stressful, but, like, a lot more confidence. Like, okay, this is how we handle it. When the baby wakes up, we do this, we do this, we do this, this. And if they don't go back to sleep, we do this. Like, there's just, like. It just makes it so much more peaceful in my mind. The next one says the newborn stage is easier than pregnancy. Nar. Not for me.

[B]

No.

[A]

No.

[B]

I mean, yeah, for the dad, obviously, the newborn stage is harder.

[A]

And I. I would say for I as a mom, I feel like the newborn stage was harder, too. It's okay to prioritize your own sleep over household chores, for sure. Not even just postpartum, for sure. Entire life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sleep is more important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're sloppy pigs, apparently.

[B]

Yeah. I'm always team, like, go to bed with a messy house and figure it out the next day.

[A]

Well, no, I actually. I really believe in the importance of putting the house together.

[B]

That's where we're different.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

We're so different.

[A]

But I'm saying, if it's coming at the cost of your sleep dramatically, then yeah. No, especially postpartum visitors should wait to be invited after a baby is born.

[B]

Yeah. You don't want to just show up at someone's house.

[A]

Don't show up randomly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also, I don't want the job of being like, hey, come over today. Like, I like it when people check in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you can be like, hey, I guess that is still waiting to be invited. I think it's good to check in on a mom.

[B]

Yeah. You can shoot. You can shoot a text over to a new parent and say, hey, specifically the dad. I wanted to pop in and drop off a gift or I wanted to drop off dinner or muffins, you know, whatever it is. And that's the way to do it.

[A]

Usually I just say, is it a good time for a visit, or do you want me just leave it on the front porch?

[B]

That's a good yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes. That's perfect.

[A]

Every mom should see a pelvic floor therapist postpartum. That's a big statement. I can't say that they're wrong because I do have some pelvic floor issues.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

I mean, I pee my pants a lot.

[B]

I think that's just part the of. Part of being pregnant.

[A]

Well, pelvic floor therapist Would say otherwise. Probably maybe being pregnant. But they said postpartum. I can't speak to personal experience on that. I've only been once and it wasn't a great experience, but I see the value for other people. I won't be back. But

[B]

everybody was.

[A]

I'm gonna have to have more. More difficult. I'm have to wait.

[B]

We should talk about this.

[A]

This.

[B]

Every pelvic floor specialist on the Internet was stitching Abby's video talking about going to pelvic floor.

[A]

But I don't think they were mad at me. I think they were saying that I had a bad experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It wasn't the typical experience.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Just so you know, a pelvic floor therapist is probably gonna stick their fingers up there. I didn't know that. Just so you should know, Moms put too much pressure on themselves to bounce back. Yeah. And I do. But I do think our culture is changing where there's, like, a really good message behind, like, you don't need to bounce back. Like, you're a completely new person now. Your body's going to be completely new.

[B]

Yeah. I. I just feel super lucky because I'm married to someone that, like, really prioritizes fitness to a point where, like, if I'm not going to the gym, I'm like, okay, I gotta go to the gym.

[A]

And the reason I prioritize fitness is literally for my mental health. So good for my social.

[B]

Which is also. I've learned that from you, too. Because the gym for me was never about mental health, but it's made a huge impact on my mental health.

[A]

Seriously, there's something to it.

[B]

I'm gonna take the iPad for a couple of these, if that's all right. Agree to disagree. Your relationship changes more after having a baby than after getting married. 100% agree. 100% agree.

[A]

I feel like we had a really smooth transition into marriage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there was a lot of learning moments going into parenthood.

[B]

I think that's why you should never have kids with someone unless you're married to them.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

I think that's having kids with somebody.

[A]

Ideally. I think.

[B]

Ideally. Ideally, yeah.

[A]

And you can make it work. But I'm just saying that there is just. I think that's. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Having kids with somebody is by far a much bigger decision than getting married.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a million times bigger. You're talking about raising another human. You're creating another human.

[A]

There's no rewind on that.

[B]

Yeah. You can rewind a marriage.

[A]

You'll be co parents together for the rest of your life.

[B]

You can kind of rewind a marriage. I mean, like, divorce is awesome.

[A]

You can. No, you certainly can.

[B]

Yeah, you can. You can. Yeah. But if, if you've had kids with that person, there's not really.

[A]

Unless you'll be bonded with that person forever.

[B]

Unless you want to be like a awful parent and never see your kid ever again.

[A]

Options.

[B]

Yeah, it's not an option. I mean, some, some people think it's an option. I think it's an option and do that.

[A]

But that's messed up.

[B]

And then we have agree to disagree. The second baby is easier than the first. I'm gonna say agree.

[A]

Yeah, me. Yeah, me too.

[B]

I think the first is the biggest change. Cool.

[A]

I think I, I and I do. It does kind of bother me when people tell parents of one kid, they're like, just wait. Like with two, it's a whole different ball game. Like, of course it's different, but don't be so intimidating like that because they know exactly what it's like. But it's just slightly different because it's times two. You know what I mean? You also have a toddler.

[B]

And we're gonna end today's episode by reading a review. This comes from Linda. She says My Happy Place. This is a review she left on Apple Podcasts. So thank you, Linda, for writing this because I think Apple podcast is the only place you can actually write write a review. But it says My Happy Place. Such a clean and safe space on the Internet to hear about well rounded and diverse topics. I think I've listened to 98 of your interviews and love the variety. Always entertaining. Xoxo, that's so nice. Thank you, Linda.

[A]

Linda. Thank you so much, Linda.

[B]

Well, technically it's spelled L I N D S but I want to say Lynn.

[A]

She was probably Lindsay.

[B]

Oh, thank you, Lindsay. Thank you, Lindsay. And and another fun fact. Apparently we've gained 28,000 new subscribers in the past month. So thank you everybody who has subscribed to Unplanned on the Road to a Million. We're really hoping that that can be a milestone that we hit this year. So if you're not already subscribed to the show, please subscribe. It's free. It takes. It's like the one. It's a free way you can support the show. So thank you everybody.

[A]

That's a huge accomplishment.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Proud of us.

[B]

Yeah. That's awesome. We're not there yet. We're still, we got over 100,000.

[A]

We're still celebrating in my mind.

[B]

Okay. That's awes. Awesome. I love that. Well, thank you, everybody, and we'll see you in the next episode.

[A]

Thanks, guys.

[B]

Peace.

[A]

Peace.