Matt (1:42)

You know how they say grief requires a witness?

Abby (1:44)

Yeah. Grief demands a witness.

Matt (1:46)

I keep seeing comments from women who find out that they miscarried, and they. The comments are like, hey, I watched. I watched this six months ago when you shared, you know, everything you went through.

Abby (1:59)

Gosh.

Matt (1:59)

And then they watch it back again, and they're like, I'm going through this exact same thing, and it sucks and it's hard, and I don't even know how to get out of bed in the morning. But I feel like that's why. Like, that's what we shared.

Abby (2:12)

Oh, no. 1,000%. 1,000%. Like, that's the purpose. And also just like. Like it's not something I'm, like, ashamed of. And it's not something I want to keep a secret. If there's anything I've learned from losing a pregnancy, like experiencing a pregnancy loss, especially late like that, like, this is a life that I want to honor and, like, I want to fully experience and live every moment of. There's just, like, it just. There's just a lot. It's. It's like, you know, I had a mom, I have a mentor that, like, has helped me so much. She lived a very similar experience to us. And she told me, she was like, yeah, you have your pregnancies before loss and you have your pregnancies after. They're just. There's just like a dividing line. And, like, even in therapy, like, she's like. Because I've, like, kind of expressed some, like, bitterness that I feel sometimes with certain things, like, in my life now, like, certain statements that people make so, like, so unintentionally that I'm like, I don't want to feel this way. I don't think the rest of the world should, like, cater towards me because I've experienced this and I don't want to feel this sense of, like, I do feel this, like, bitterness that I, like, I. I don't like it. And she's like, no, there's just like, basically people that are living blissfully, ignorantly, and then people that have had that stripped away from them, and it's not because they want to. I would much rather be blissfully ignorant. Trust me. Like, I would much rather. But I'm not. And that's not my life circumstances. So anyway, just like, working through all kinds of things, and it's like, there's just so. Any mom that's experienced this, like, just knows, like, pregnancy after loss is just so complicated.

Matt (3:47)

Why do I feel like I've experienced a similar thing where I feel like there was a part of me that used to be ignorant and blissful?

Abby (3:54)

You have. You have.

Matt (3:55)

And now we're not. But I think there's a way to get back there. Like, I think it's like, yeah, you can know there's an impossible. You don't think there is?

Abby (4:02)

No. Yeah. No.

Matt (4:02)

I feel like it's a mental practice. Right? Like, there's some people out there that have been through some horrific things and somehow they're able to, like, push through.

Abby (4:09)

No, but exactly, that's what you're doing, is you're pushing through. You're carrying on despite the grief, but you're still carrying that with you.

Matt (4:15)

So I guess so I guess you can still be blissful, but you're no longer ignorant. You understand? So you're blissfully aware.

Abby (4:22)

Blissfully aware.

Matt (4:23)

You're aware of all there yet dark, effed up stuff.

Abby (4:26)

We're not there yet for sure, but yeah. Wow, what a journey it has been. And I feel like it's, like, weird because this was not a secret, per se. I just wasn't like, this wasn't like I was like, trying to, you know, get everyone to ignore me or, like, nothing. It's just like, I was not ready to talk about.

Matt (4:41)

You just needed space. And I think, and I think even now, like, you're saying it's scary to.

Abby (4:45)

To say it.

Matt (4:47)

Yeah. Why? Why?

Abby (4:49)

If I'm being honest, I'm still craving a little bit of space, but this is where we're at now. Like, it's like, that's the thing about being pregnant is that there comes a point where even strangers know they're.

Matt (5:02)

They're catching on. You, babe, you got a really cute bump. It's adorable.

Abby (5:06)

It's okay. And. And I do. I. I really want to be full. Like, this is full transparency. It's like, I'm doing this first and foremost to honor this baby and second of all, to honor the other moms that have, like, joined along in our journeys. Like, and maybe they've chosen to pursue another pregnancy or maybe they haven't. But I just want to be, like, just candid in our experience just for their sake too. So.

Matt (5:36)

Well, let's. Let's go all the way back to the.

Abby (5:38)

Yeah, let's go back. There's a lot.

Matt (5:39)

We actually found out we were pregnant back in 2025. So to give a little. To give a little recap. Immediately after we found out the horrific news about losing Emerson, we. We knew we were going to try or actually, no, I don't think maybe. No, wait, did you know, remind me.

Abby (5:57)

First day, like, when you found out, I was like, what is the. Like, how can we make these next steps in a way that is most beneficial to her life and then also to my own fertility down the road? Because those are like, unfortunately, that's the reality you have to accept in that moment. And so it's like, yeah, that's not. You don't want to be thinking about a future pregnancy, like, when you're learning about, like, you are seconds into just finding out that this pregnancy is, like, done. But that's the reality, like, that you have to face as you're making these next steps and these decisions. And so that was Something that we always knew that we wanted, and.

Matt (6:31)

And they told us we had to wait.

Abby (6:33)

There was a period of time where we were advised to, like, abstain from trying just to get my health back to where it needed to be. And I think that we also needed that time mentally, for sure. And it's not like we arrived at some certain, like, spectacular mental state. I think that very early on. And grieving Emerson, I realized that this was like, a lifelong, like, process.

Matt (6:57)

Yeah.

Abby (6:59)

So I was like, that's not necessarily, like, the major factor. I think we're major. The major factor afterwards was just, like, consulting our doctors about my health and being safe about everything. And so there was a period of time where we were not trying. And then finally arriving to Thanksgiving of last year, we knew there was a possibility that we were going to be pregnant. And so we decided. Or I decided. I think I was like, we could take a test on Thanksgiving, and it'll be a little bit early, but then if it's positive, we'll be extra thankful on Thanksgiving, or if it's negative, we'll just. It'll still be a great day because it's Thanksgiving Day. And so we took a test that morning, and it was negative. And we were like, well, shucks. And I was actually more disappointed than I thought I was going to be.

Matt (7:45)

You were really down. I remember my parents asking, like, is Abby doing okay? Because you were not doing okay. And. Wow.

Abby (7:54)

I didn't know that it was showing.

Matt (7:56)

Well, yeah. I mean, how could you not? You just went through a miscarriage and you want to be pregnant again and you're not pregnant. And so I just feel like I

Abby (8:02)

did a lot that day still, though, you know?

Matt (8:04)

So I was super sad for you, and it was just. Yeah. I mean, it sucks to see a negative pregnancy test when all you want to see is a positive pregnancy test.

Abby (8:14)

Well, I mean, also, going into trying this time, like, your first time trying post loss, my thought was, okay. I have been reminded, like, in a horrible way, that our family planning is really not in our own hands. Like, it's outside of her hands. And so if I get pregnant, this was what I was thinking. If I get pregnant, then it'll be great. If I'm not pregnant, then I feel like I won't hold it. I wouldn't have been as disappointed as I might have been before because I just am so freshly made aware that this is outside of my control. That wasn't the case. Like, the negative really made me, like, disappointed. I think I was, like, holding out hope. That like. Okay. Like I don't know, as short time possible. Not pregnant. That will help. Not the case. So then when I was negative, I was really bummed.

Matt (9:02)

Yeah.

Abby (9:03)

I'm not describing as well and right.

Matt (9:05)

Marty off to about this is also right when we got a dog. So if you remember how we got a dog at the end of 2025, this is all at the same time. We were trying for a baby. We decided to get a dog because it was hard and it. The. The joy of having a puppy around was actually like pretty cool. That was like a sweet thing to do. And I think it, like it almost seemed like in your head you. You thought since you. That first one was negative. I think in your head it was like, oh, this is gonna be a really hard season of like negative pregnancy tests. Right. Like, I feel like that's. That's what like your mind at least was telling you.

Abby (9:40)

I don't know. I honestly, I think I. That our doctors gave us realistic expectations for like fertility after like everything that happened. And so I feel like I wasn't necessarily going there yet. Cause it was just our one negative test. But I don't know. I think I was just down as it was anyway. And so this was just another thing. Right.

Matt (10:01)

And so then we go to Vegas.

Abby (10:03)

It was my birthday shortly after that.

Matt (10:05)

December 1st.

Abby (10:06)

Yeah. And we had spent two nights in Vegas to celebrate my birthday. Because your parents were in town for Thanksgiving too. So they got. So they watched the kids while we went to Vegas for two days or like a day and a half, whatever it was. And we had a great time. It was really fun. And I felt like a lot better, like just getting one on one time. I was like, you know what? This is great. Like, everything's fine. Like, sure, I wish I was pregnant right now. But like, I don't know. It was really good to connect with you and to like just have some time for rest and recovery. Especially during the season of the holidays. And like everything that had happened leading up to the holidays and how the holidays were looking so much differently than we would have imagined. Like all these things, it just was really restful and great. Then I come home from Vegas. I'm like, well, that's so weird. I still haven't started my period. I was like, that's just really weird. And. But then I was like also chalking it up to the fact that my body had been through so much. So then the night that we got home, I was like, wait, that's like kind of when it dawned on me. I wasn't. I genuinely was not thinking about it at all in Vegas. And then I took a. Just like one of those cheap strip tests, and I was, like, looking at it in the light, and I was like, I really feel like I see another faint line. Do you remember me bringing that downstairs to you?

Matt (11:24)

I want to say I saw it for the first time. I just watched the video back of us finding out.

Abby (11:27)

No, that was. I'm talking about the night before that.

Matt (11:30)

Yes. Wait. Yes, you're right. You. You took a strip test or something, and you're like, this looks weird. And I'm like.

Abby (11:36)

You were like, I don't see a line.

Matt (11:37)

I don't think there's anything to, you know. Yeah, don't. Don't overthink it. It's fine.

Abby (11:42)

But, like, you didn't think I was pregnant at that point?

Matt (11:43)

Yeah, I didn't think you're pregnant.

Abby (11:45)

And I was like, that is so weird because, like, why. There would not be a faint line even if the. Even the faintest of lines, if there. If it wasn't, you know what I mean, supposed to be positive. And so I was like, that's so weird. Like, that evening, I remember, like, still not thinking much of it. We went to, like, a Christmas event with some friends, and then I was like, you know what? That's so weird. Next day, still hadn't started my period, so I was like, I'll just do. I had one more digital test, and I was like, I'll do that. And then I think we're still up in the air whether or not we're gonna share the video of us finding out that test saying pregnant.

Matt (12:21)

It was very anticlimactic.

Abby (12:22)

It's very anticlimactic because I was just brushing my teeth and, like, I. Like, I was waiting for it to load, and it literally said pregnant.

Matt (12:31)

Yeah. We both were just confused. Are you. I was confused because of the way you presented it to me. You were like, it says I'm pregnant, but I'm not pregnant.

Abby (12:39)

Yeah, I totally didn't believe it.

Matt (12:40)

Like, I was just like, I don't know what to say. I.

Abby (12:45)

The denial was a hundred percent. Like, if you would have asked me in that moment, even though I'm looking at a test that says pregnant, if you would have asked me if I was pregnant, I would have said 100%. No, I don't know. I don't know. That denial. The denial was crazy.

Matt (12:58)

I just kept looking at the test and realizing, wait a minute. These tests are very accurate. They're over. 99% accurate. My wife is telling me that she's not pregnant because of the scary stuff, the trauma that we've been through. But the test is saying pregnant, and I'm there. I'm like, well, babe, if you're pregnant, that's really dope. Like, I think it is. I want to say it is.

Abby (13:20)

And so eventually, the mental gymnastics, though, of, like, negative, positive, faint lines, like, in my head, the only things going through it were, like, chemical pregnancy. There's some weird, lingering HCG from your. From Emerson's pregnancy. Like, there's just so many things that were, like. I think my mind was ultimately just trying to protect me, like, from the reality of, like, what it was gonna look like to be pregnant after loss.

Matt (13:46)

Yeah.

Abby (13:47)

And the denial was crazy. But also, my anxiety was at, like, 110 at this point. Like, I remember that day. I, like, couldn't eat, and I couldn't think about anything else. Like, that whole day, I was just so messed up. And then I finally called my ob, went in. Did I go in that day or the next day?

Matt (14:05)

I want to say it was the day after or two days after. But they confirmed it. They said you were pregnant. They ran all the tests, did everything official, and we knew. Remind me, who are the first people that we told?

Abby (14:19)

My mom. I told my mom that day. Well, I told my mom that day. Why is this test saying positive? Yeah, like, she was like, you probably are pregnant. And I was like, nope, you're wrong, too. Like, every. I literally just didn't. I just kind of. Yeah, I told my mom and I told my mentors. They were the only people that knew for, like, a long time.

Matt (14:36)

And you and our friends Mike and Ashley were over for dinner, and I would, like, offered, I think, them wine or I wanted to know if, like, whoever wanted wine. And then somehow the way I, like, worded my question and made it clear that you were very obvious.

Abby (14:54)

Matt Howard, don't say.

Matt (14:55)

So what did I say? What did I say that made it so obvious?

Abby (14:57)

Abby, you want wine?

Matt (14:58)

Oh. Oh, that's exact. That's. Yeah, that's exactly what I did.

Abby (15:02)

Never mind.

Matt (15:03)

I was so dumb. I was like, babe, do you want wine? I mean, you probably don't want it. You don't want it, maybe. Oh, no. I should have just let you say, oh, I'm fine. Thank you for offering. And then nobody would have known that you were pregnant, but I was just an idiot. And then people. They didn't ask or anything, but they were our first friends to know just because I was freaking fumbled down that.

Abby (15:22)

Well, we didn't tell. Yeah. It wasn't like a conversation. You just were really awkward.

Matt (15:26)

Yeah. Story of my life.

Abby (15:28)

No, it was fine. And so, yeah, those early weeks, if I'm totally honest with you, that was just like mental warfare. Like, I've never. I've never lost. Like, I've never had an early miscarriage like that. But I just, like, every single day, like, yeah, I was just waiting for something to happen. And so when at six weeks, we were out of town with your family in Missouri and I started bleeding, I was like, well, see, that was scary. It was literally, like, I was just like, it.

Matt (15:59)

Well, I forgot about that.

Abby (16:01)

I knew this was. Oh, I certainly did not forget about it. It was like, honestly seeing that, like, an experiencing that. I was, like, not even surprised. Like, that's where my head was at. So, so strongly.

Matt (16:11)

We were. We were in Missouri to go to Silver Dollar Store, and we had just told your parents. We went and did Silver Dollar City with our. This was at six weeks with my parents. We had. Yeah, we had just told them. They were asking about, hey, is Abby okay? She seems that maybe those are two different times. I think they. They knew something was wrong when you had taken the pregnancy test and it said negative, and you're really bummed. And then they knew, too, when you were really worried about miscarrying because you were bleeding.

Abby (16:38)

Yeah.

Matt (16:38)

Terrifying.

Abby (16:39)

And that day was just combined with so many things, like having just told your parents. And then also, like, not being home also made that worse. And then also we had close friends just in our personal life that day tell us they're pregnant. And, like, at that point, I was like, for sure that we were no longer pregnant. So I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, everything was just so heavy. And so I was experiencing bleeding for the whole weekend while we were out of town. And so when I got back in town, I called my doctor, and she's like, well, just come on in and we'll get you checked out. And so at this point, like, my head is, like, mean. I thought was game over, you know, and went back in and they actually found a heartbeat, which was so crazy because it was actually pretty early for that. And they were like, we didn't even expect to have a heartbeat or especially a heartbeat like, this fast at this point. Like, the. The heartbeat was looking, like, really good. And they found the source of the bleeding, which. I know this is common. I had just never experienced it before. And it's called a subcoital hemorrhage I

Matt (17:46)

don't know the official term.

Abby (17:47)

You would know something like that. And it's fairly common, especially mine's probably related to, like, all the procedures I had post Emerson's birth and everything that happened with that. And so there was just some damage that had been done to my uterus essentially, and that one of those clots had made or clot, not clots, one of those hemorrhages had made its way out or was starting to make its way out. And so I still had another one that they were keeping an eye on at that point. And so I was just holding my breath because I was like, okay, I was prepared for more bleeding at that point because I knew that they had spotted eyes on another one. I was just praying. I was like, please don't let it happen. My. My mental state cannot take it. Because by that, by the next Monday after that weekend, the bleeding had stopped or had really subsided. And so I was like, okay, well, that was a shock that the baby was okay, and then just like kept carrying on. So at this point we were like, not telling literally anyone because everything just felt like, literally so paper thin, so fragile, so scary. And I had never experienced that before in a pregnancy. And obviously this was my fourth pregnancy, so I was kind of like, you know, not prepared for weird, random symptoms like that. But that's just because my body had been through so much, you know, I

Matt (19:07)

think it was one of those things where we were just waiting to get through the 17 week appointment, waiting for the 17 week appointment, wanting to get there as fast as possible. And it felt like the more people that we told, the more we talked about it, the more it was on our minds. Like, it. We just wanted the time to just like, if we could have snapped our fingers, we could have had some magic time machine just to teleport us to the 17 week appointment. That is what we wanted.

Abby (19:34)

That's what my. That's what my instinct was. But that's actually what I was like, working against, like, in therapy, because, okay, after experience.

Matt (19:43)

Tell me about this.

Abby (19:43)

What did you learn, like, after experiencing loss, like, the instinct, for me personally, everyone's experience is gonna be different. Obviously, I'm just talking about my own personal experience with things. My instinct was to literally distract the. The crap out of myself was to just like, pretend I wasn't pregnant and just go about my life and just like, try to not think about it. The problem with. And that's what I did for like, the first little bit there because, like, that was just a defense Mechanism, essentially. But that does not work, ultimately, for so many reasons. But one of them is that it was giving me intense nightmares. Like, I. Like, I told my therapist, I was like, I just keep having, like, these terribly graphic nightmares. And she's like, well, a lot of that is probably because you're having these, like, unprocessed emotions and fears throughout your day. And so the only time your brain has to sort through it is in the middle of the night when you're sleeping, and it's, like, doing that. So then I was like, okay, I learned really quickly, like, I'm talking about, like, five weeks, that that was not gonna work. And so I. And then also, I was like, I have just been freshly reminded that we are not guaranteed anything when it comes to pregnancy. We are not guaranteed anything. And that's a really unfortunate reality, a really terrifying reality. But, like, until you lose the pregnancy, like, you don't. You don't wish that you. I don't know. How do I explain this? You just know that you have to enjoy every single day that you wake up and you're pregnant. And so I knew that distracting myself was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to try to cherish and enjoy every single day that I got to carry this gift. And so I then really started doing a lot of things. I started to journal. I started to. Even though, like, really early, like, I would journal and, like, journal to the baby. Sometimes, like, just short little bits.

Matt (21:36)

I didn't know that you were journaling to our baby. That's so sweet.

Abby (21:38)

I have a notebook of it. It's a separate notebook, and I've never.

Matt (21:41)

I've never hear you read one of those. Or maybe you just want it to be for you.

Abby (21:44)

I've never read them to anybody.

Matt (21:46)

Do you think you'd ever read it to our baby?

Abby (21:47)

I don't know. They're kind of dark, some of them. And so. And then I got, like, a book for, like, just, like, there's a really great book. It's called, like, Growing. Growing with Purpose is what it's called. It's a really thin little book you can get on Amazon, but they have, like, specific, like, bits of encouragement. So it's like, say you have a scan today. Like, this is a specific bit of encouragement. Say you got good news at the doctor's day. Say you got bad news at the doctor's day. Like, say you're like, I don't know. It has. Like, it has something for every single day. And I would read that. And then also, really early on. Obviously you don't have any kind of bump when you're five, six, seven weeks pregnant. But I would still put my hand on my belly and just like, that was like, really connecting me with this baby. Because if I've learned anything, like, I just did not want to. I didn't want to wish a single day away. Because, you know, you think when you find out you're pregnant that you're gonna have nine months with that baby. And so it's like, oh, I'm living so I can. I gotta get through this bit so I can get to the birth. And when you've never reached that finish line during pregnancy, you know that every single day is a gift that you're pregnant. And so I just wanted to live it and enjoy it and feel it, every bit of it, and know this baby as much as I possibly can. I'm fine, by the way. I can just.

Matt (23:05)

Any good?

Abby (23:06)

Yeah, fine.

Matt (23:06)

Here, use my sleeve. Me just.

Abby (23:08)

No, dab.

Matt (23:10)

Dab your eyes with my sleeve.

Abby (23:11)

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Matt (23:15)

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Abby (23:29)

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Abby (24:13)

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Matt (24:34)

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Abby (24:49)

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This is one of those problems that just really makes you want to say a bad word when you're dealing with the backyard. And I just thought there was no solution. But the fact that pocket hose has thought of this and fixed this and made this so much more seamless. We are eternally grateful.

Matt (25:21)

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Abby (25:44)

I was given the advice from another. I'm going to call them lost moms because I feel like that's kind of the title that they have online sometimes. From another lost mom. Because I was like, I'm no, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't, I don't know how to feel. I don't know how to go about this next pregnancy. It just feels so foreign, even though it's my fourth time doing it. And she's like, my advice is to know everything you can about this precious life for as long as you can know it. And so for the first time, then at 10 weeks, we decided to do the NIPT blood work test, which would tell us the gender of the baby.

Matt (26:23)

Yeah.

Abby (26:23)

And we've always found out previously at the scan or with Emerson in her case. We found out the day that we found out she didn't have a heartbeat. And I learned through that that I never wanted to do it that way again. That's just not the way you want, if you can at all help it. Like, I just wanted to know everything I could about this baby for as long as I could. And so for the first time we did that blood work and you want to kind of tell that story yeah.

Matt (26:49)

Yeah, let's tell it.

Abby (26:50)

So do you remember. Did you black out everything?

Matt (26:53)

You know, it's been. It's been a. It's been a whirlwind. Like, looking. Looking at the video of us finding out, I'm like, I forgot that's how it happened.

Abby (27:01)

Yeah.

Matt (27:01)

Like, in my brain. It was probably a happier discovery, but. No, we're just. We're just confused.

Abby (27:08)

We were just confused. We'd never done this before.

Matt (27:10)

We found out at. Was it 10 weeks?

Abby (27:13)

10 weeks? Yeah.

Matt (27:14)

And it was really sweet. We had Abby's mom, like, put out.

Abby (27:19)

I emailed her the results the morning I got them, and you would not believe the. Like, she was just so honored.

Matt (27:26)

Your mom was very honored.

Abby (27:27)

Very honored. So excited.

Matt (27:28)

And I was teasing her, and that

Abby (27:29)

made me excited, too.

Matt (27:31)

I was like. I was like, it's a girl, right? I'm like. You're like, you. I'm trying to get your mom to, like, spill the. Spill the beans on, like, what?

Abby (27:37)

I know. She's pretty good with her poker face.

Matt (27:40)

And she was good. Like, she wouldn't. She wouldn't cave. She wouldn't give me information. And so Abby and I went shopping for some flowers. Lori, Abby's mom, put the flowers, like, the color of the. Of the gender into our boy. I guess our boys were just carrying the flower, and they just carried the flowers up to us.

Abby (27:56)

We got fake flowers.

Matt (27:57)

Yeah.

Abby (27:58)

And we got pink and blue.

Matt (27:59)

We couldn't find real ones. We actually. We actually vlogged that experience. We went to, like, a bunch of different stores.

Abby (28:06)

It was fun.

Matt (28:07)

Everywhere that we went, we could not find the flowers.

Abby (28:09)

And so basically, we just went outside that day. It was literally just us, my mom, and our kids. And we had both bouquets of fake flowers. And then she handed the boys the appropriate color, you know, of the gender of the baby. And you opened your eyes first.

Matt (28:26)

Yeah.

Abby (28:27)

And then you told me.

Matt (28:29)

And it's funny, too, because we started telling a lot of people then. Like, we were wanting to keep it a secret, but we told my parents. We told my grandma. We told your parents. And then pretty soon, we decided. I think we decided on the name. Literally that day. You said you gave, like, two different ideas for the name. And. And I'm like, ah, I like that one. And I told you.

Abby (28:51)

Well, because unfortunately, we had already been in conversations about names, you know.

Matt (28:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

Abby (28:55)

Since last June.

Matt (28:56)

Exactly. And so then we had the name. We made the mistake of telling our boys the name, because then they just started telling everybody.

Abby (29:03)

Yeah, well, wait.

Matt (29:04)

We need to go back a little

Abby (29:05)

bit because we never told. Talked about telling people we were pregnant in general.

Matt (29:09)

Oh, my gosh, you're right. Yeah.

Abby (29:11)

Before found out by accident, I feel like.

Matt (29:14)

Wait, what do you mean by that? Who found out by accident?

Abby (29:16)

Well, first of all, the first person that found out that wasn't. Well, we told the grandparents immediately.

Matt (29:21)

Except for your grandma.

Abby (29:22)

No, no, no. I'm talking about like, my parents and your parents.

Matt (29:25)

Ah, yes, yes. Yeah, you're right.

Abby (29:27)

Wait, okay, so we told our parents immediately.

Matt (29:29)

Yes.

Abby (29:30)

So the grandparents of the baby and then. Well, I told my mom immediately, and then she told my dad. And then your parents found out, like, when I was like, what? Yeah, five weeks.

Matt (29:39)

It was really funny because the reason we told my parents when we did, we were riding roller coasters at Silver Dollar City in spring in Branson, Missouri, and Abby wasn't going on a single ride. Like, not only are you not able to do rides when you're pregnant, but even. Even the ones that were pregnancy safe, you were skipping out on some of those too. Like, you just. You just did not want to get anywhere experiencing bleeding to the line. Yeah. And you're experiencing bleeding, so you were, you were worried. Um, that sucks that we did that fun experience while you were.

Abby (30:10)

Yeah, it wasn't so fun. Not fun.

Matt (30:13)

The boys had a freaking.

Abby (30:14)

Yeah, they had a great time, the boys.

Matt (30:16)

Oh, my gosh.

Abby (30:16)

And also, that is a really great point to bring up. Having two little kids too is such a gift. And if you're like, experiencing like this, because I get such a. So much joy from them that it, like, and some so much levity, like, they're just like, going about life.

Matt (30:31)

But to finish the story, I can tell my mom knew that you were pregnant. She was just on to you because you had skipped like six rides. And I'm like, okay, we're gonna tell my mom before she tells my dad that she thinks that you're pregnant. And then my brother, who's with us, he's gonna know. And so we're on our. On our way over to another ride and I have our tour guide because Silver Dollar City set us up with a tour guide. It was super nice of them. Have her take a picture of us, but I just put it on video mode and we told them that we were pregnant and they freaked out. And of course I knew my mom had, like, she was on. She had been on to us for probably 20 minutes at that point because of the situation. It was really funny, though, because my dad is. He's. He's so sweet. Like, my dad would share YouTube videos with people before, like anybody even watch our YouTube videos. He'd share them to his Facebook with his like Facebook friends. But this, like, there are some sweet girls who were happening to me walking by and had recognized us and they got really excited because they heard that we were pregnant. This is back in December. So they've kept it a secret this whole time. Thank you to those people that kept it a secret. But my dad, my dad goes up to them and he's like, don't tell me. Gotta keep it a secret.

Abby (31:33)

And we're like, it's okay, John.

Matt (31:34)

My dad's like playing like the secret police out here, just trying to tell all these, these sweet people that saw us announce to them. So anyway, but that was really fun. It was, it was a fun. I got, we got to post that video. It was a fun little fun little surprise.

Abby (31:48)

Well, and then the next person that found out, I'm pretty sure was your brother. Your older brother Caleb and Abby.

Matt (31:53)

Yes, my brother.

Abby (31:54)

That's so bad.

Matt (31:55)

My older brother. Yes. So on Christmas, it was like we Christmas Eve service. You looked so hot, but you wore this like tight dress and you can see.

Abby (32:04)

Oh my gosh, you're making it look like I was scandalous at church.

Matt (32:06)

Well, I told you to wear it. I told you to wear it because you were like, babe, should I wear this? And I'm like, good. I was like, oh, my lord, you look amazing. Wear that. And you could barely see like the slightest teeny little bump. But it was so cute. And I was, I was just obsessed with you. I was like, wear that. You look like a goddess. Caleb realizes that you're. He's like, okay, is that pregnant? No.

Abby (32:26)

On Christmas day, he pulls you outside.

Matt (32:28)

Yes. We're all gathered together. Whole family's at our house. Older brother Caleb.

Abby (32:33)

Abby's pregnant.

Matt (32:34)

Before Caleb could spill the games to his wife. I told you. I was like, babe, we gotta tell him right now.

Abby (32:38)

So he already got it out. He literally just looked at you and was like, abby's pregnant.

Matt (32:43)

And right around that same time, though, because we were trying to. We were trying to stall. We were trying not to tell. We were trying to.

Abby (32:48)

We had the rest of our family inside the house.

Matt (32:49)

Yeah. We wanted to keep it a secret as long as possible, but Blake and Addie Addy, our sister in law, who's literally in the room with us right now, she was onto us, but wasn't saying anything because you were having food aversions while we were looking at Christmas lights. Like, anything that smelled slightly different than, like, the air. I don't know, Just.

Abby (33:07)

Just anything.

Matt (33:08)

Just any smell at all. That was just a funky smell. You're like, oh, I can't. Let's be clear. What was the smell? What was it that you were smelling?

Abby (33:14)

Blake's chicken wings.

Matt (33:15)

Blake's chicken wings. Oh, because we did charcuterie boards for Christmas.

Abby (33:18)

Yes.

Matt (33:19)

A chicken wing one. You were like, oh, I can't eat that. Oh, this is so. And they.

Abby (33:22)

Did I do that? Wow. So dramatic.

Matt (33:24)

You were being. It was okay. You were being dramatic, but I was like, ah, they know.

Abby (33:28)

It wasn't that. It was, like, a secret. It was like. It honestly felt. Still felt at this point that it was, like, not real. I don't know how to explain that in any other way. Like, it was just. It just felt so not real at that point.

Matt (33:39)

I'm sorry, can we just pause real quick? You have the most incredible calves. Can you show off your cat? You clearly wear a ballerina. Look at those calves. My goodness.

Abby (33:48)

Meaty.

Matt (33:48)

Those have. Show the camera. They look amazing. Also, you got to show the bump. Show your bump. Go ahead and stand up. Let's see a little close up of Abby's bump. Little side profile. Wait, more to the side. More. Turn, turn. Oh, go this. Dude. This middle camera. Ah, my baby. Your bump is adorable. I love your bump.

Abby (34:13)

Thank you. Okay, Just to say wasn't a secret. Just felt like nothing was for certain for so long because we had so many just. We were also treating this pregnancy so differently as far as, like, my doctors were, that it just all felt so uncertain, like, more than ever. So we were just waiting until we knew things were good. And I guess, like, that is something that I've learned is that that's not really a place that you arrive at in pregnancy after loss. Like, there's never, like, a arrival point of, like, ah, this deep sigh of relief. Like, it just doesn't happen. And so I think once I came to terms with that, I was like, the whole, like, everyone can know that is in our personal life.

Matt (34:55)

Why is it that now I literally could. I. If, like, I feel like if you. If you really wanted to have, like, seven children, I would be like, okay, let's do it.

Abby (35:05)

Let's do it.

Matt (35:06)

Like, I feel like I feel the same way. We reach this, like, level of maturity and this level of love in our relationship where growing our family is one of the most beautiful things I've ever gotten to experience in my life. And doing that with you has been there's just no words. There's just no words you can put into it.

Abby (35:22)

That's sweet. Oh, I think now we just realize more than ever how precious, like what a gift it is. How precious it is. How just like what a miracle it really is. Like, I just remember feeling like after we lost Emerson, I remember just like literally going about my life in public and I was like, how are there so many people in the world? Like, I was just like, all these people were once a fetus. And that just blew my mind. And I'm like. And they. And they are here. Like, what? How incredible is that? And so. Yes. So then I guess so, yeah, family started to find out and it was different than it's ever been telling people because obviously, like, yeah, it's just everything, every single thing is different. This pregnancy. And so we start telling people. And that honestly helped a lot. And I almost think that I'm like, I should have told them sooner. But I was just so, like I was literally drowning in fear. And so. But once family started to know and friends started to know, it started to feel like I could like, maybe they could, I don't know, shoulder some of the burden of fear and just like make it actually so I could feel a little bit of excitement.

Matt (36:32)

Who is someone that you told that made you feel at peace with everything? So maybe like a friend or a family member?

Abby (36:40)

Well, everyone I told, like, it all felt really good. But especially on Christmas, like telling Abby, like cuz that was the first.

Matt (36:46)

Yeah. You were crying.

Abby (36:47)

Yeah, it was the first crying together. It was the first non parent that I had told.

Matt (36:53)

Yeah.

Abby (36:54)

And like it just felt like everything was just like a little lighter after telling her. And so then. Yeah, just kept going about life and going to a lot of appointments. Yeah. Remember because I had experienced a little bleeding. They were like kind of like take it a little bit easier in the gym. So I think me like my behavior changing the gym, like a lot of my friends are from the gym. They started to notice, but no one was asking, which I appreciated too. Obviously. I feel like that's just respectful afterwards until I was ready to talk about it. And so some people just because of circumstances, like it didn't feel like there was like a. I remember just telling you all the time, I'm like, I don't want a hoopla. I just don't want a big hoopla.

Matt (37:36)

Yeah. Tell me, tell me more about your decision to keep it private for so long. But maybe not.

Abby (37:41)

I just didn't want the attention of it.

Matt (37:42)

Well, because like at the gym, I noticed. I would notice, like, again, you looked so ridiculously beautiful in your. Your gym attire, but it was clear that you had a bump. And so I didn't know how you felt about, you know, post going out of you working, you know, doing a workout.

Abby (38:01)

Oh, that's fine.

Matt (38:01)

Your bump, being seen.

Abby (38:03)

It was fine. If people knew. I just didn't want, like, a bunch of attention.

Matt (38:06)

You just didn't. You just didn't want to address it yourself. You just wanted to keep it.

Abby (38:11)

I wasn't ready to talk about it

Matt (38:13)

just because of the grief and the fear that that was the thing.

Abby (38:18)

I just wanted more space to, like, process how I was feeling. I felt like I was, like, kind of drowning every day and then also, like, just struggling with, like, how to even feel, how to even be. I wanted to also just, like, collect my thoughts, too. And I feel like I'm at that point where I'm, like, more collected about it. And so I think that's just because

Matt (38:36)

of the stage we've reached. Because a common question people are going to ask, like, it's the most common question that anybody ever asks when you say you're pregnant, is how far along are you? So how far along are you?

Abby (38:48)

Yes. Now the time you see this, I'll be 20 weeks. But the day of filming, I'm 19.

Matt (38:52)

We're almost over halfway. 20 weeks will be over halfway by the time you guys are watching this.

Abby (38:57)

Yeah. Because they won't let me go to 40. So that was a big role too, like, especially wanting to go public about it. I really wanted that space for when we got to that 17 week mark. I wanted that space from, like, you know, online, all that that comes with it, because I just knew those were going to be a really hard week. And, boy, were they ever. Those weeks were actually harder than I even anticipated. So, like, week 17 and 18, I was just like, freaking basket case.

Matt (39:24)

Yeah, 17 was horrible. That's the day. The day of the 17 week appointment. I was trying to keep it together for you.

Abby (39:31)

Oh, my gosh.

Matt (39:31)

I was just so scared. Really?

Abby (39:34)

You didn't act scared at all?

Matt (39:35)

Because I couldn't. I had to be the. I had to be your rock.

Abby (39:38)

I feel bad.

Matt (39:38)

I had to be your tough guy, and I want to be your rock and your tough guy. I want to be.

Abby (39:42)

You were scared, though.

Matt (39:42)

I want to be the man that you can always lean on and come to for safety. You were.

Abby (39:46)

I didn't even know you were scared.

Matt (39:47)

I'll do whatever I need to do. Tomorrow.

Abby (39:48)

Were you scared of that appointment?

Matt (39:49)

Of course. Of course.

Abby (39:51)

Oh, that sucked so much.

Matt (39:52)

What's the scariest part? Oh, fudge. Sickles. Okay, don't. I'm trying to not cuss as much. I sometimes. Sometimes they cuss now.

Abby (40:02)

Oh, my God.

Matt (40:03)

We're in the. We went to the freaking room that we found out we lost Emerson.

Abby (40:07)

Same room.

Matt (40:07)

It was the exact same room.

Abby (40:09)

Same.

Matt (40:09)

Same office.

Abby (40:09)

Same.

Matt (40:10)

My heart was just like. I was like, frick. We. I hate this. And thank goodness. Like, well, here's the other thing. We had to wait in the waiting room for, like, 30 minutes because they had, like, a. Like, a surprise appointment or something. Like, something came up, and there's a scheduling, and it was nobody's fault at all, but we had. Yeah, we had never waited longer. You. I felt horrible, too. I wanted to drive you to the appointment, but I'm trying to. I weigh more than I've ever weighed, so I'm trying to lose weight. So I went on a run that morning. I got home 20 minutes before the appointment started, and you had already left the house, because I think you just needed to get out of the house. I think you just needed. You just needed to free your brain. And so I got there. I was in the waiting room five minutes before your appointment started, but I think you had gotten there, like, 10 minutes before your appointment started, waiting. And then we didn't get in until over 30 minutes after the appointment. So we were just in the waiting room for nearly 45 minutes.

Abby (41:03)

And just to give you some idea into my head, like you walking into that same ultrasound room, like, that was you reliving a bad experience. When I have to explain to you, like, my body doing this again, it's like my body is reliving, like, a bad experience constantly. And so, especially when I started getting to 17 and 18, like, I remember just talking to therapy, I was like, I thought I was past this. Like, I kept saying, like, I thought I was, like, doing so good. Like, I feel like I was doing better. And then there's this, like, saying in, like, therapy or psychiatry, I don't even know, but, like, the body keeps the score. Have you heard of that? It's so true. Like, my body knew that when I had gotten to this stage of gestation that things did not go well. And so, like, I just was, like, racked with anxiety. Like, I mean, so bad. Like, it was so hard to do a lot of things that were normally, like, not a big deal. You know, just going through the day was really hard, and I Just remember just thinking, like, I can just get to 18 if I could just get to 18. If I can just get to 18. And I got to. So we went to that 17 week appointment and baby was good and we both started crying. I think I for sure did. And then. And what's funny is like that day, my doctor has been so tender with us and very considerate. She was like, okay, that 17 week appointment, I know that's going to be a hard one. So I'm gonna schedule an extra scan that day so you can see. Baby and I have had so many scans already just because of everything that had happened because of prior, like, you know, with our loss. I had so many scans. And so in my head I was like, I'm for sure gonna cancel that for like, I just won't need it.

Matt (42:51)

Yeah.

Abby (42:52)

As we got closer and closer to that appointment, I was like, there is no chance in this bloody earth that I'm going to cancel that. Like, we needed it.

Matt (43:00)

The additional one was at 18 weeks.

Abby (43:01)

17.

Matt (43:02)

17 weeks, yeah.

Abby (43:04)

And so I'm so glad we had that because that rest that day was very, very good. And then I felt comfortable to plan the gender reveal. And so that like that very same day we started to actually put things in motion for the gender reveal.

Matt (43:17)

Yeah.

Abby (43:17)

Which is good because it was gonna be like a week or so after that. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think, yeah, literally was like a week and a half after that. So I was like, we like had to pull that together last minute, which I'm sure, like all of our friends and family was like, why did we just find out about this literally a week and a half before it happened, or like a week before it happened, or a matter of days. It was just because it felt like, I mean, to be truthful, we were planning the gender reveal when we found out we lost our last pregnancy. So, like, it just felt like if I were to do these things, then something were to go wrong. And I feel like that's something else I've been really working through a lot. Is that like, I've called them superstition? And I don't really know that that's like exactly what it is. I think it's just like serious fear, but, like not wanting to do the things I did before in a way to prevent the same outcome from happening. What are even things that were illogical?

Matt (44:10)

Tell me more about your superstitions. Because I knew about the gender reveal one. I knew that you were holding big one.

Abby (44:15)

And I was like, if I plan it, then something's going to go wrong.

Matt (44:17)

Like, you waited literally the last minute.

Abby (44:19)

Yeah.

Matt (44:19)

To plan it.

Abby (44:21)

Other things were like, our kids coming to doctor's appointments. Like, I was like.

Matt (44:25)

Because have they been to a single one?

Abby (44:27)

They haven't. Like, they were at the appointment when we found out we lost Emerson. So I was like.

Matt (44:33)

And it's kind of a blessing.

Abby (44:35)

Honestly, it was. But illogically, my head. I was like, if they come, then we're going to get bad news. Like, it's just not. It's so illogical. But that's just, like, where I'm at, you know?

Matt (44:43)

Yeah.

Abby (44:43)

And so that was another one.

Matt (44:45)

There's more than that, too.

Abby (44:45)

There's so many more.

Matt (44:47)

Yeah. I like the.

Abby (44:50)

Even you coming to appointments. Like, I just wanted to go by myself.

Matt (44:53)

Yeah.

Abby (44:54)

It's so weird.

Matt (44:55)

What? Yeah. What's crazy is the one where we found out Emerson, I. That was like, we'd had so many appointments already at that point. I almost didn't even come because I was like, oh, we're good. Like, Abby's got this down. And then thank goodness I came.

Abby (45:10)

Oh, my gosh. Thank goodness you came.

Matt (45:13)

Yeah.

Abby (45:13)

But. So, yeah, I've just been struggling with a lot of these, and I feel like, superstition, like, I was using that word. But I do feel like it kind of minimizes the fact that it's just, like. It's just deep, deep fear that, like, you just have to kind of become comfortable with in a pregnancy after loss. Like, it's. I think it's unrealistic to think that you could have, like, none, you know?

Matt (45:37)

Yeah. Can we talk about something happy?

Abby (45:39)

Yes, let's talk about something happy. Reveal party was so happy.

Matt (45:42)

It was amazing. So we had over 50 people at our house for the gender reveal.

Abby (45:46)

Yeah. Like, 25.

Matt (45:47)

Fun.

Abby (45:48)

So many. Three years old.

Matt (45:49)

Yeah. Bazillion little kids running around. You looked absolutely stunning in your dress.

Abby (45:55)

That's so fun.

Matt (45:56)

So, so pretty.

Abby (45:57)

It's so fun. That, like, that was a huge thing, too. Like, knowing the baby's gender meant that we could give the baby a name. And giving a baby a name gives the baby humanity. And, like, that was just felt like such a great experience. And for all of our friends and family to know, like, has been. It just. It feels like. It feels really good to be, like, where we're at now. Now. It doesn't mean that, like, yeah, talk about something good. I'm going negative again.

Matt (46:25)

Yeah. To keep. To keep the conversation on a positive moment.

Abby (46:30)

Yes.

Matt (46:31)

Abby did an incredible job putting out this party she hired a local coffee shop to come and make pink and blue lattes for everyone in attendance. We have a lot of LDs or what you may know as Mormon friends that were there as well. So Abby thought of them. She had chocolate milk and lemonade. And lemonade at the coffee stand, which is so sweet. A local balloon artist did the balloon.

Abby (46:53)

Arch, Addy's friend Chat Az. What is it?

Matt (46:56)

Party co. Az Party co. Is that right?

Abby (47:00)

So sweet.

Matt (47:00)

Our sister in law's friend Az Party co did all the balloons in the background. Arch looks so good.

Abby (47:06)

We had chick fil a chicken minis.

Matt (47:08)

We had dessert.

Abby (47:10)

Chunk Bakery did so many delicious pastries.

Matt (47:14)

A local business called Chunk Bakery.

Abby (47:16)

I'm dying. They're the best. They're like a family owned local bakery and they are the sweetest ever. The ants got so many of them.

Matt (47:23)

We ate a ton of pastries at the party. But then I went. I went to go eat a leftover pastry. The next day.

Abby (47:29)

No, later that same day.

Matt (47:31)

Was it the same day?

Abby (47:32)

Yes.

Matt (47:32)

Was covered in ants. You guys sad? We have an ant problem at our house. We need to like. I'm so sick of these ants.

Abby (47:37)

They loved those.

Matt (47:38)

I probably just need to pay for pest control at this point is probably what it is. Cause I put out ant traps, but it doesn't seem to do anything. So anyway, party was freaking awesome.

Abby (47:47)

It was really fun. It was a great day. It was a great, great day. It felt like more than anything, like, I've said this before, but, like, gender feels. I'll be the first to tell you, they're kind of silly. Like, it's just like, what does it really matter the gender of your baby? Like, it's just. It's just a celebration of life.

Matt (48:02)

It's just an excuse to throw a party.

Abby (48:03)

Just an excuse to have a party and then just to honor the life and the pregnancy and everything.

Matt (48:09)

Can I tell you a funny idea I have? Maybe I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this idea in the comments. But you know how some people do these, like, wild, over the top gender reveals. Like, there's some, like, drones. They have drones in the sky announcing the gender. Our friend. Our friend Nicole, the nomad, not realizing it. I guess like a firework company wanted to go above and beyond for her at her gender reveal. It looked like a freaking nuclear, like, firework went off.

Abby (48:32)

No idea it was gonna be so big.

Matt (48:34)

But I kind of want to, like, recreate something like that with AI and make it look like it'd be funny if we Posted an AI like our mat navi gender reveal. And then you see like a plane like go through the sky and drop just like I think it could be.

Abby (48:49)

Don't do it.

Matt (48:49)

But we just did the little poppers. We just had little boo. And every time we do a gender reveal, I feel like you can't ever figure out how to pop your popper. This time you did it yourself though this grip strength, you, you. It took you like five seconds, but you eventually figured it out.

Abby (49:03)

Yeah, well, I'm saying that throwing that party was like against everything that my subconscious was telling me to do. Thank you to Little Spoon for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

Matt (49:14)

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Abby (49:32)

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Matt (50:17)

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Abby (50:38)

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Matt (50:55)

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Abby (51:07)

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Abby (51:32)

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Matt (51:41)

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Abby (51:56)

It's wild that this is the fourth time we've done this and it's wild. Even navigating that alone feels so like I've put so much thought into it, but it just feels so complicated too. Like this being like, does this make it baby number four? Does is this baby still baby number three, but fourth pregnancy?

Matt (52:13)

Like, yeah.

Abby (52:13)

Trying to just navigate that also feels messy and complicated and we'll just do whatever feels like the best for us and like, you know, all of it has just been, just been tricky.

Matt (52:27)

All that being said though, last week we had the 18 week appointment.

Abby (52:31)

Yes. Well, normally at 20 weeks.

Matt (52:33)

Okay. Normally at 20 weeks. We had it early at a facility that deals with high risk pregnancies. We're just being extra safe. Abby's doctor thought it'd be smart.

Abby (52:43)

It's called a maternal fetal medicine doctor.

Matt (52:45)

Yes. So with, with our history, you know, we're just doing extra appointments, double checking everything and thank goodness we did because while the baby is happy and healthy, we found out last week that Abby needs to be on pelvic rest. So describe for people that don't understand pelvic rest what that is, how long you're on pelvic rest.

Abby (53:02)

We start from the beginning. This was at the anatomy scan, which we did at 18 and a half weeks. It can happen at anywhere between 18 and 20. But since we were going to like this high risk specialty doctor, they have like a ton of really good equipment and also they are checking. So I think the standard human or the, the Standard anatomy scan is checking for like 20 different structures. But the one at the maternal fetal medicine doctor, they're looking at over 40 structures. So they're just, they're doing an extra thorough job of the scan that everybody gets. And they did notice that the placenta is in a less than ideal position. So basically, the way the doctor, he was really great at describing, he even got out an expo marker and like drew a diagram for us. But basically they're looking for the placenta to attach itself to the upper half of the uterus. And that's because that's obviously the afterbirth for a reason. You don't want it to be close down low to your cervix because you don't want that to come out first, like when you're delivering baby. So they want it to be in the upper half. Our placenta is in the lower half. And it's a little too close to the cervix that they like to see. And so they have recommended pelvic rest, which I know that this is not entirely uncommon. I actually know other people that have, like, had this similar thing. And it's actually not too far off from where they want it to be. It's actually just literally a fraction of a centimeter. But, like, that's the reality is that I'm glad they're looking for that and I'm glad they're being extra cautious. So they did recommend like a form of pelvic rest where basically, like, I can't do any high intensity workouts. So at this point I'm literally just going on walks. And we also cannot have any intercourse for the next several weeks, which is

Matt (54:53)

brutal, especially when you look this way.

Abby (54:57)

Matt literally left the office. He goes, which one's worse, in your opinion? And I was like, I don't feel like I should answer that question. But yeah, so it is just like very, you know, we're open about that type of thing over here. That's a different. This is a change for us.

Matt (55:15)

Yeah.

Abby (55:16)

And so obviously, obviously we are just so grateful that the baby is healthy. That has been like just our biggest hope. And that was just such a release, like, of fears to get, get to that appointment and to get through that appointment with a positive result was great. It was like a little bummer that there was like this other thing to think about because I just wanted to like, just like have a deep sigh of relief and like, move on. But now there's this lingering thing that we had to have a follow up for, and we have to keep thinking about it and hoping that it moves its way upward a bit and things like that, when we've never had to think about something like that. And so it is a little bit, like, of a bummer, if I'm totally honest. A little frustrating.

Matt (56:00)

What was he saying about the placenta being too close to the cervix? We need to, like, let it get higher up. We also don't want that the placenta. It would not be good if the placenta detached. So we're trying. You're being extra careful, extra cautious.

Abby (56:13)

Yeah.

Matt (56:13)

But what's the thing about, like, he said something about like 1.7 millimeters or something. Do you know what that exactly meant?

Abby (56:19)

Yeah. So basically I think they're looking for it to be like over 2cm away from the cervix.

Matt (56:24)

Away from the cervix. Why though? Oh, because it could fall through.

Abby (56:27)

No, I don't know. He didn't go. He was very kind. He did not go into, like, all the worst case scenarios of it because I don't think he was also too concerned. Like, he was like, this is not too far off from where we want it to be. Like, we're just going to keep an eye on it. But I think that the. The risk is if it goes. My assumption. I'm not a doctor. My assumption is that if it goes over the cervix area, it first of all isn't great for delivery. But then also it can lift if that cervix opens.

Matt (56:52)

Yeah.

Abby (56:53)

And which it's going to, like, later on in pregnancy. And so. And that's definitely not good if the placenta is not, like, fully attached to the uterine wall. So we're not too concerned about it at all. But it's just something to think about and something to be extra cautious about, which we are more than happy to do whatever we have to do.

Matt (57:09)

You know, I feel like I'm in high school again.

Abby (57:12)

You know why?

Matt (57:14)

Because we're just like. I'm like, I'm next to this extremely attractive woman and we can't even do anything.

Abby (57:23)

That's a bummer. Such a bummer.

Matt (57:25)

We just have to kiss. We actually did kiss a long time the other day for. It was for like 30 seconds. It was amazing.

Abby (57:34)

Anyway.

Matt (57:36)

Yeah.

Abby (57:37)

So I guess that's like the full update. Oh, the. So we do know the gender of the baby and we're probably gonna. I don't know when we're gonna tell.

Matt (57:43)

We need to decide when we're telling people. Yeah. Next week we'll announce the gender to you guys soon. We'll announce the name at some point

Abby (57:51)

when the baby's born.

Matt (57:52)

Probably when the baby's born, but.

Abby (57:56)

And it is. Oh, my due date.

Matt (57:58)

The due date is August 11th, which is Abby's dad's birthday.

Abby (58:02)

Yeah.

Matt (58:02)

Funny.

Abby (58:02)

Well. And Augie's birthday is August 10th.

Matt (58:05)

That's crazy. That, like, Abby's dad has the. Dude.

Abby (58:08)

Briella's birthday, August 18th.

Matt (58:10)

We got a bunch of so many August birthdays in her family. What's up with that?

Abby (58:14)

Yeah, well, you know.

Matt (58:16)

Okay. What. I'm. What. I want to avoid that originally for the fifth pregnancy. Whenever that happens, I think we should time it to where you'll have a big bump around Halloween, because I think

Abby (58:26)

it'd be so funny thinking about this so much.

Matt (58:28)

I think it's so cute. I'm really into you pregnant, and I think it'd be so cute if you had, like, I could paint your belly to be a watermelon, a basketball, like, so many different things. It would just be hilarious.

Abby (58:39)

Matt has been thinking about this non stop. Honestly, you have done such a good job of, like, helping me feel comfortable being pregnant.

Matt (58:47)

I just love you.

Abby (58:47)

Like, you, first of all, make me feel beautiful when I'm pregnant, like, especially now more than ever. But then also just, like, constantly, like, validating this pregnancy and such. Like, it makes it just feel so much safer, like, that I am pregnant now.

Matt (58:59)

I'm really excited to meet our kid.

Abby (59:00)

And you've been so excited, like, about the baby. Like, you being, like, 150% excitement about everything has made it feel like I can, like, be more excited myself.

Matt (59:10)

Yeah.

Abby (59:11)

If that makes sense. And so, like, just. I'm so grateful, like, to have you, like, through this pregnancy and always through everything. But, like, you've been such a help through all of this.

Matt (59:22)

The thing that we need to figure out is if and when we're doing a baby moon. Because I so want. I love baby moons. I think they're so fun. And I think we just do a short little trip like we've done in the past. Not too long if you don't want to be away from our kids. If we're. If we're going for kids, like, more than two days, we get really sad. We miss them.

Abby (59:37)

Two days maximum.

Matt (59:39)

We usually switch our flight so we can get home to our kids. I know.

Abby (59:41)

It's just sad.

Matt (59:43)

But, yeah, I think we should plan, like, a short, like, weekend getaway, man. And maybe, like, me, we fly my mom out to hang with our kids while we're gone or something. I don't know. We'll figure it out.

Abby (59:53)

Potentially.

Matt (59:54)

Yeah. I love baby moons, though. How did you guys tell the boys you were pregnant? Wait. Yeah, how did we tell the boys that we were pregnant?

Abby (60:00)

I think we, like, did you just tell them?

Matt (60:01)

I feel like you just said it.

Abby (60:02)

We just told them.

Matt (60:04)

Yeah.

Abby (60:04)

Yeah. Well, I just didn't want to make it a big thing too because I. This has happened and I was anticipating it, like confusion, like, and they have had confusion, you know.

Matt (60:14)

Yeah. And we've had to talk to them about the miscarriage. We've had to explain to them why mom was pregnant and then she wasn't. Now she's pregnant again with a new baby. And I think the simplest way to explain to a three year old what happened is that, you know, Emerson's body stopped working, which then of course, Griffin's next question was, is my body going to stop working?

Abby (60:34)

And then is this baby's body going to stop working?

Matt (60:37)

Which is scary. But you know, I think, I think there's always age appropriate ways to talk about these things and it doesn't have to be.

Abby (60:43)

And I also don't think little kids have that fear attachment.

Matt (60:46)

You don't need to go into detail for them either. Like you say, oh, baby's body stopped working and then it's kind of like, okay, like it's like they don't really ask follow up questions. And if they do, then you can just say, well, yeah, eventually everyone's body does stop working. And then, well, it's not really helpful

Abby (61:00)

to have a name for this baby too. And I feel like we waited also until we had a name more.

Matt (61:05)

Yeah.

Abby (61:06)

And we're like, oh, yeah. Like we just call the baby by name. And they do too. And yeah, they're very excited. I feel like also our kids are very chill. Like, they're not like, they, they're just, they're very chill kids. They're very laid back, easygoing, and they're excited, but also like, they have no concept of like how long a pregnancy is.

Matt (61:28)

Has it already been a week since we found out you needed to be on pelvic rest?

Abby (61:32)

No.

Matt (61:32)

Oh my gosh. Gosh. We have so much more time. We're get through it though.

Abby (61:36)

It's been like four days, man. Howard.

Matt (61:38)

Yeah. I know you've been going out and your walks. Do you enjoy walking now or is it just kind of. But it's eh, it's eh.

Abby (61:44)

I'm gonna learn to love it. I've been listening to audiobooks Any fun

Matt (61:47)

audiobooks you're listening to?

Abby (61:49)

I.

Matt (61:50)

No, nothing that good. You can't recommend it.

Abby (61:54)

No. But. No, we're making the most of it. It's great. And we'll just do whatever we have to do.

Matt (61:59)

Yeah. How do you feel about your hormones this time? Do you feel. Do you feel different than you have? I feel like the answer is yes, I do.

Abby (62:05)

Yeah. I feel like I've been. I've been different.

Matt (62:08)

Yeah.

Abby (62:09)

Well, first of all, I love my bump throwing.

Matt (62:12)

Like, I love.

Abby (62:13)

I love every single bit of it.

Matt (62:14)

And we're feeling kicks. You've been. You started feeling kicks like, a week ago.

Abby (62:18)

17 weeks, you guys.

Matt (62:19)

Yeah.

Abby (62:19)

Like, that was, like, the sweetest, like, little blessing to feel kicks.

Matt (62:22)

Yes.

Abby (62:23)

So early, and that was, like, such a gift.

Matt (62:25)

How did you know it was a kick?

Abby (62:26)

You can tell. You can tell.

Matt (62:28)

But, like, it's just like a little vibration sort of thing. Like, it almost feels like a heart.

Abby (62:31)

Feels like a little. Like a little tiny foot. Just like.

Matt (62:33)

Because when I felt it, it. You. You described it as. It almost feels like a beating heart in a way. Like a.

Abby (62:38)

Maybe you didn't feel like. Maybe I said it feels like a pulse. Like, it's like a little.

Matt (62:42)

Yeah, that's what I felt. I felt a pulse.

Abby (62:43)

Yeah.

Matt (62:44)

Kind of.

Abby (62:44)

That's, like, there. Yeah. And so we've been feeling kicks as of, like, 17 weeks, which was very early, and it was, like, undeniably what that was. And now I. Like, this morning I woke up and I, like, felt even more than, like, a kick. I felt like, like a movement of sorts.

Matt (63:00)

Yeah.

Abby (63:00)

And so that has been such a gift. Like, such a relief. So, so amazing to experience and to feel like I'd have no, like, any body changes I'm experiencing. I'm like, yes, yes, I welcome them because that means that baby's growing and that's all we want. I don't know. We think we should keep the rest light because I was going to say other things that I can't do this pregnancy, that I was able to do all my other pregnancies. I don't know. Like, I'll never download the pregnancy apps probably ever again. Yeah. I don't know. I just have a weird attachment to those. Well, not an attachment. Like a weird reaction to those. Like, not to be. I don't want to be dark. I don't want to be negative. But, like, on those apps, a lot of times they have, like, a graphic of, like, what baby looks like in your womb currently, which I think is incredible. That they have that. But also, we have had, like, a very realistic view of what a baby looks like at that gestation. And, yeah, I don't want to see the apps. Also just feels like you're banking on something happening like, that you're like, I'm not guaranteed to be able to scroll, you know, to 30 weeks, 35 weeks and get to that point. Like, I don't know. Just so many confusing feelings about pregnancy apps, which I'm like, I don't have to download those. It's totally fine. It's totally fine. I always know how far along I am. There's never a point where I'm like. Because I've seen some moms that have multiples to be like, I don't even know how. Like, how far along. I don't even know. Blah, blah. Like, that I can't relate to literally at all. Like, I know how many weeks and how many days I am every single day. And, you know, that's totally fine. It's just a little different than before. What are other different things? Finding out super early. The gender was different.

Matt (64:55)

Yeah.

Abby (64:56)

Also not trying to distract myself. I feel like I always tried to distract myself through pregnancy. Don't want to do that. Definitely don't want to do that. I really want to fight against that and, like, enjoy every single day and view it as a gift. And I do. And on the days that it's, like, really, really hard, like, I'm talking about, like, week 17, I like, oh, actually talk to the baby, like, when I'm by myself. And so that really helps.

Matt (65:18)

I haven't heard you talk to our baby. That's sweet.

Abby (65:20)

That's embarrassing.

Matt (65:21)

It's not embarrassing. That's not embarrassing. That's.

Abby (65:24)

That would be my advice to, like, a mom that's pregnant after loss, too, is like, really just do everything you can to just try to stay present and connected.

Matt (65:33)

Oh, my gosh. You know, it just made pregnancy. What time about you being pregnant made

Abby (65:36)

me think of what?

Matt (65:37)

How Griffin asked us for the first time how babies are made.

Abby (65:41)

Yeah, that was interesting.

Matt (65:42)

And I. I just kept. I said it in the simplest way. I said, well, I really just said, when a mommy and daddy love each other very much, essentially mommy gets pregnant.

Abby (65:53)

Yeah.

Matt (65:54)

I just said, mommy and daddy love each other.

Abby (65:55)

I think we could revisit that another time. But that was enough for him.

Matt (66:00)

That was enough. He was like, all right, you guys love each other. So your mom got pregnant.

Abby (66:03)

Yeah. It was really, you know, he was like, but how did the baby get in your Belly. That was the question. And I was like, what did I say? Well, I feel like we were talking about it and then that it naturally led him to that. Like, I don't think he would have, like, ever arrived there on his own.

Matt (66:19)

Yeah.

Abby (66:20)

Like, you're like, do you know that Mommy. Or that daddy loves Mommy so, so much.

Matt (66:24)

Yeah.

Abby (66:24)

And that, like. Oh, you said, did you know that we. Mommy grew you in her belly?

Matt (66:27)

Yeah, I said. I told Griffin that we made him, so we made you. Yeah.

Abby (66:30)

And then he's like, mommy's belly. Wait a minute. How did the baby get in mommy's belly?

Matt (66:33)

Yeah. And I said, mommies and daddies make babies through love.

Abby (66:37)

Yeah, something like that.

Matt (66:38)

Yeah.

Abby (66:39)

So, you know, that was enough for him.

Matt (66:40)

Yeah. Well, wait. Well, yeah, that's. That will be a conversation for another day.

Abby (66:46)

It was a very smart, intelligent question.

Matt (66:48)

But I think just keeping it as simple and as age appropriate as possible is the way to do it. I don't. But I also don't like. I don't like it. I don't want to lie, and I don't like when parents are like, don't ask the question.

Abby (67:01)

I don't want to make it taboo or anything.

Matt (67:02)

You don't want to make taboo?

Abby (67:03)

I think that that was very age appropriate.

Matt (67:04)

I think it's important, though, to. For you as the parent, to be the one telling your kids how this stuff works.

Abby (67:10)

Totally.

Matt (67:10)

Because think about it. Like, they discover all this stuff from kids at school.

Abby (67:14)

I had a lot of misconceptions because I never had the sex or.

Matt (67:17)

Or a movie that they're like, maybe they learn it from movies and TV or some wacky kid at school that, like, has a bunch of older siblings.

Abby (67:24)

I didn't even know my own anatomy at the time of getting my period.

Matt (67:28)

That's crazy. You had no idea. You had more than.

Abby (67:30)

I didn't know. There were three holes.

Matt (67:33)

That's crazy.

Abby (67:33)

Genuinely didn't know.

Matt (67:34)

That's pretty remarkable that you have.

Abby (67:36)

Remarkable. Awesome. That is remarkable.

Matt (67:38)

I love that for you.

Abby (67:38)

But.

Matt (67:38)

Yeah, I mean, I just. So many ways I just think that you talk to your kids about it and you want. And as uncomfortable as it is, I think diving into the discomfort and being okay with that just for the betterment of your child is important. Right?

Abby (67:52)

We're going off on a tangent.

Matt (67:54)

Yeah, I definitely am. But. Yeah, I think you told me a year ago that you did not want to do another summer pregnancy in Arizona, and guess what?

Abby (68:05)

We're doing another.

Matt (68:06)

You're doing another summer pregnancy in Arizona. How are you planning to stay positive, to keep cool, to not overheat when it's like, 120 outside? What's your game plan?

Abby (68:18)

I'm just so grateful to be pregnant that I'm like, I don't. I'll do it any time of year. I'll do it however I have to do it under any circumstances.

Matt (68:26)

Yeah. So what type of gap are we gonna go for between baby number three? Well, this is baby number four, but I guess. What should we even say? Like, when people ask us about our kids, do we say, like, yeah, we have one in heaven and then two here and one on the way?

Abby (68:39)

I just always just. Just consider the person that I'm talking to.

Matt (68:43)

Yeah.

Abby (68:43)

Right. So if I'm, like, talking to a stranger and they see that I have two boys and that I'm pregnant, I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe number three. Like, you know, there's. But I. I actually am surprisingly comfortable to tell random people all the time, like, oh, yeah, we had a loss after them. And so, like, this is our pregnancy after loss.

Matt (69:02)

Yeah.

Abby (69:02)

Like, and that was a girl. And I, like, tell them, like, I feel like. And I do that. If it's another, like, mom.

Matt (69:09)

Yeah.

Abby (69:10)

Or another dad, like a parent. Like, I'm like, they know they. They've done this, so I just have to. Yeah. I don't know. It's just I navigate this. Like, if it's friends and family, for sure. I'm talking about it in the sense of number four, because it.

Matt (69:26)

But I know it definitely bothers you when people make the mistake of saying, how's your third pregnancy? And it's like, well, it's like, it'll

Abby (69:32)

be your third birth. I'm like, it's actually my fourth birth.

Matt (69:35)

Yes. You've. You've already given birth three times.

Abby (69:38)

Yeah. Two of them. Two of them were live.

Matt (69:40)

Vaginal. Yeah.

Abby (69:41)

Well, it's called live birth. And then one was not. It's complicated. Right. And it's messy. And I just feel like I don't expect everyone in my life to, you know. No. Always have the perfect right thing to say at that given moment. Because also it changes within me. Like, what feels right. It's just like. But I also don't feel the. Like, I can also speak up, you know, and help everyone out, you know, to qualify.

Matt (70:07)

Well, guys, I think that is enough for today.

Abby (70:09)

That is certainly enough.

Matt (70:10)

Are so, so grateful. So excited. If you've been here since the beginning, I know there's been some of you that have been watching, listening, tuning, in since the beginning of this podcast or even since the beginning of our YouTube channel and tick tock back in 2020. Thank you for being here and to those of you that have left a review for our podcast. Thank you. I want to read A review from Kate109. This is a review that she left on Apple Podcasts and it says I'm so grateful for how the two of you show up and tell your story. I enjoy listening every week. At the end of the last episode, Abby's that's all I have broke me. Thanks for being so vulnerable. I know it's helping many and wow, that was really sweet. So thank you for leaving that review. We try to just keep it as real as possible for, for you guys here. Cuz we, we want to just because

Abby (71:00)

we're actually just real.

Matt (71:01)

We're just.

Abby (71:02)

That's actually the.

Matt (71:02)

We're just people. We're. We're just. Yeah, we're just a couple, couple dudes making. Making.

Abby (71:07)

Can I say one more thing?

Matt (71:08)

Silly videos online. Yeah. What's up?

Abby (71:11)

I just want to say this. Like, our decision to pursue another pregnancy after pregnancy loss was fully out of evaluating. Was it worth the cost?

Matt (71:28)

Yeah.

Abby (71:29)

And when I looked at Emerson's like pregnancy and like short little life, as painful as it was, as like life changing as that was, ultimately it was worth the cost in my mind, like it was worth the cost of everything that we went through to get to carry her for 17 weeks. And evaluating this, pursuing this current pregnancy, looking at the potential of getting to carry another baby and getting to hopefully meet this baby on the day that this baby is born alive and healthy, that was worth the cost for us. And so if you're a mom that has experienced loss and you're looking at everything that's happened to you and, and everyone's circumstances and experiences are different. If you're looking at that and you're just coming to the conclusion it's not worth it. There is no judgment that is, that is totally valid that you feel that way. We're just sharing our story and that for us that was worth the cost. The potential of experiencing loss again, as fearful as it was, it was worth, it's been worth. It's worth it. And so that's why we felt comfortable trying. What we did, trying and trying when we did is because we just had really thoughtfully evaluated all of it, like all the pain, all the fear compared with the joy, the gift of pregnancy and potential, like growing, like growing our family and like all that, it was worth it. So I Just want to add that there for the mom that's listening, that's like, I just cannot reconcile doing this, possibly doing this again. And that is totally valid. I want you to understand that you don't need. This isn't necessarily the right, quote, unquote, right way to do things or the most healed way to do. Like, it's just what was right for us, given everything. So I just wanted to say that too. And also, like, all I can do is just picture the day that we get to hold this baby in our arms. And that really is just keeping us going. Just hearing that cry, being the hospital, holding that baby, having our boys meet this baby and taking this baby home is just like, literally just like the vision that we just can't. Like that we just keep imagining in our heads to get us through each day. So, yeah, yeah, I'm like, crying so much this episode. And it's like, supposed to be so happy. And it is, but obviously, like, it's so complicated. So, yeah. And yeah, the people that get it, get it. I. I really know that. Like, I really know that.

Matt (74:06)

Well, guys, thank you. We'll see you in the next one. And as always, peace out. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra. That's the og it kicked off this whole Zero Sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.

Abby (74:31)

So if you've been living in the

Matt (74:32)

White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more. Martha listens to her favorite band all the time.

Abby (74:44)

In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour,

Matt (74:51)

Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much, she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them, sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel.

Abby (75:07)

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