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- [00:03]
Ben Walter
Hi, everyone. It's Ben. The Unshakeables is back, and this time with a special episode. Typically on this show, we cover one incredible small business owner and hear his or her story. We've heard about these unshakable business owners all season long, but one thing we haven't done is talk about how those special folks build that resilience. In other words, what's inside the mindset that helps someone become unshakable.
- [00:27]
Jay Bailey
We.
- [00:27]
Ben Walter
We wanted to find out, and we thought Chase's Experience event in Atlanta, Georgia was the perfect place to do it. We host these experiential events all over the country in growing business markets for a few reasons. Of course, we do them for ourselves. We do them for the Chase brand and to build our presence in the communities where we operate. But it's more than that. It's really about our clients, and we provide an opportunity to do the things for themselves that often only employees of big companies get to do. Atlanta was the perfect city to kick off our 2024 experiences because it's one of the best markets for businesses and business owners in the country. It's also the home of two incredible voices in Jay Bailey, CEO and president of the Russell Innovation center for entrepreneurs, and Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a therapist and host of the hit iHeart podcast, Therapy for Black Girls. Oh, and you'll hear me at the beginning talk about how hot it was. We recorded this live episode at Atlanta's historic Pullman Yards, which happens to also have, well, let's just call it historic air conditioning. It was about 85 degrees, and even for this Texas native, it was a bit sticky. But that didn't stop us from having a terrific conversation. So I hope you enjoy my chat with Jay Bailey and Dr. Joy Harden Bradford from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [01:46]
Jay Bailey
Hello, everyone. It really is loud in here, and boy, is it hot. It's like, really hot. All right, it's great to be here and see all of you. Let me tell you what we're going to do today. We've never done this before, so you all get to be part of something new. So we're going to record a live podcast. Normally on the podcast, we tell the story of small business owners, people just like you who've had that moment. They just weren't sure it was going to work out, but they found a way through, and we tell their stories. And today we have an opportunity to get inside the minds, the mindset of those entrepreneurs who do get through it, who do figure out a way to get through that tough moment that's what we're gonna talk about today. And I have two fantastic guests to help me do this. So please welcome to the stage Jay Bailey, who's the CEO and president of the Russell Innovation center for Entrepreneurs, more commonly known as Rice, and Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a psychologist and host of the hit podcast Therapy for Black Girls. Thank you both for joining me. So I told you a little bit about what the podcast is all about. I got to meet a coffee company whose whole place burned down. I got to meet a company who came up with these socks. They were selling like wildfire till one of the biggest retailers in the country sent him a cease and desist letter. I mean, really, really tough moments. So let's get into that mindset now. I want to start with you, Jay. I talked about those obstacles. Now, you went through your own moment like that. So I wonder if you could tell people a little bit about that moment and maybe some of you get to meet more entrepreneurs than just about anybody.
- [03:26]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Sure.
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Jay Bailey
So talk to us about that moment and maybe some of the other stories you've seen of people coming through and having those moments.
- [03:32]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I started my first business at 12. I bought my first house at 19. I made my first million at the age of 23. But I didn't have good money role models. And so I literally went from living in a 10,000 square foot home to being homeless, living in a nine by nine storage unit on Mountain Industrial Boulevard in Tucker, Georgia. But also, as you start to think about, I'm a firm believer that loss creates leaders. And I think that far too often we take for granted walking upright. But I also believe if you've never been on your back, I don't know if you've ever truly seen the sun. And so you know, we've got lots of entrepreneurs. This resilient spirit. I got the call at 2 in the morning. One of our stakeholders at the Russell center. In one phone call in 2020, they lost 87% of their business. Immediately, they were going to close their doors. A construction company. Because of our relationship with your organization, we were able to make the phone call and within six months, they brought on $37 million worth of new business. The power of relationships and partnership. This is what I mean. Around the heart of the entrepreneur has to be the heart of resilience. It has to be the person that can effectively manage pain. It's one of those things that comes along with entrepreneurship. Your ability to manage pain will predict how far you go in business. There's a brother by the name of Gerald Washington, who actually lost his job at the top of COVID started a cleaning company, and we were their first commercial client. Now they clean all the Chase branches in the Southeast, and Now they're a $12 million company because of those relationships.
- [05:19]
Jay Bailey
I didn't know that one. So, Dr. Joy, those are some amazing stories. You're a psychologist. Tell us about what it is about the mindset of an entrepreneur, of a business owner. There's gotta be something different in there.
- [05:32]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah. So we've actually heard a lot of the stories today, a lot of the characteristics that make entrepreneurs successful. So one is resilience. Right. So the ability to bounce back after something difficult happens. But successful entrepreneurs also have a very high tolerance for ambiguity. So. So there's a lot of unknowns that come with being an entrepreneur, and you have to be able to ride that out and trust that you are going.
- [05:56]
Jay Bailey
To know what to do when you don't know what to do.
- [05:57]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Exactly, exactly. And then the third thing is flexibility, like you mentioned. So the ability to pivot and make some different decisions if things are not working out the way that you thought they would.
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Jay Bailey
Interesting.
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Ben Walter
Okay, so let's take a second here, because we've heard about a few of the mindsets that are really important for entrepreneurs. Let's talk a little bit about how to build those mindsets and how to reinforce them and how to make sure that they stick. There's no textbook for this stuff. I mean, so one is you have to have mentors, not just at the beginning, but all along. And you have to have people you can go to that you can rely on. You have to be able to rely on their experience, on their perspective, on their opinion. You have to have some trust in them. But equally, you also have to have the judgment to know which advice you're going to pick. Right. So you might get conflicting advice. You might get the same advice. Doesn't matter. You have to make decisions and behave in a way that's authentic to yourself. The second is consume information voraciously. Please read, listen to podcasts. You can consume ideas in all kinds of ways, but consume ideas and knowledge because you will slowly, in the lizard brain, deep down, be slotting that into your view of how you want to manage your life and your business and your family and your journey through life. You will do it whether you realize you're doing it or not. So that's the second piece, and then the third piece in my mind is find your mechanisms for discipline. How am I going to hold myself accountable for doing that? And everybody Needs their own mechanisms. The things that come easy, you need fewer mechanisms for. And the things that come with more difficulty, you need more. It could be anything from every day. At the end of the day, I write down how I felt today and what my mindset was, and I'm going to talk to someone periodically in a structured way about these things and how I'm coping with them. It has to be something that you. You don't hate doing if you treat mindsets like anything else, which are a skill you're trying to build. So how do you build any other skill? You practice it, you measure it, you review it, you go to other people who are good at it and find out how to get better at it. And then you practice and reinforce and do the same thing.
- [08:00]
Jay Bailey
So, Jay, talk about some. Like I said, you're in it every day with entrepreneurs over at Rice. I've been there. It's a fantastic organization.
- [08:07]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
No more in the audience. There's stakeholders in the building.
- [08:11]
Jay Bailey
So what are the specific challenges today? Talk about, you know, every moment in time is different. Tell us what you're seeing today, and how is it different than maybe it was a couple years ago?
- [08:20]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
I think now capital markets are different than they were a couple of years ago. Access to capital is a real thing. And so we've taken on the model that I'd like to push customers over just raising capital. How do we build a sustainable business that is based on customers rather than just raising capital? Because the market has completely changed. Money's more expensive. And so how do we look at ways where we can look at collaborative opportunities, where we can look at, you know, we can look at shared business models, and we can look at collective economics. Let me be your first customer. Let the two of us go after a larger customer. Let the four of us then go over a much larger customer. We've seen a lot of that collaboration at the Russell center, where one business would not have been able to take down that contract with the Fortune 100 before collaboratively have now split the opportunity with a $50 million contract with a Fortune 50 organization. Again, I think it's just time now for us to break down silos to see one another again and figure out how we can go farther together?
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Ben Walter
Okay, that's.
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Jay Bailey
So that's great advice.
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Ben Walter
Jay talked about how money is more expensive than it's been. I do want to put a little bit of a caution on that. For those of you who are under 40 in particular, you'll think that interest rates have always been sort of 2 or 3%. So if you look at interest rates today, they're generally in the 6 to 7% range. That puts them well within the normal range by historical averages. You know, in the 70s they were 10, 12, 15, 18%. When, when inflation was really tough. Obviously then after the financial Crisis, we had 15 to 18 years of 3% that wasn't normal. Now people got used to it. You have a whole generation of people who got used to that. But what will happen over time is that assumptions will adjust to that new normal. The world will adjust over time. So we need to talk about different stages of financing. There's startup capital and there's operating capital and there's growth capital. And let me talk about why I'm putting them into those buckets. Now, at some level, a dollar is a dollar is a dollar, so what's the difference? But the reality is the, the risk of all those different things is different. Therefore the price and availability of capital can be different. So let's start with startup capital. I work for a bank. Banks generally don't fund startups. That's not what we exist to do. Because at that early stage of a business, typically that's equity, not debt, which is the more risky end of the capital spectrum. It's super high risk to start a business. So startup capital is typically supplied by the entrepreneur. There's operating capital that tends to be lower risk because you've got a business that is up, that's running, that's typically hopefully making money, and you'll need that capital for cash flow. Let's make it really simple. You're a catering company. Somebody's going to have a wedding and you're going to cater that wedding and they're going to buy 15 grand worth of food for that wedding. That food is going to cost you 10 grand. You've got to outlay 10 grand in order to get 15. So that's operating capital and then there's growth capital, which is sort of in between the two. And I think of that as in this case, it's like, okay, I built a successful catering company. I've been using that sort of operating capital. Now I'm going to buy my own kitchen. Because I'm so successful, I need space, I need control over that. I'm going to invest in my own kitchen. That means you're investing for growth. It's a little bit like startup because you're going for the next phase of growth, but it's also a little like operating because you already have a track record and you've proven It. Now, as for where businesses are getting it, I would say mostly from traditional sources. That hasn't changed. Obviously certain levels in the capital stack are more expensive than they have been over the past few years. But as I said, those are, you know, these are more normalized rates. So I don't see a structural change in how small businesses are getting funded. I just think people have had to be more disciplined. As you know, money came out of the basement of free.
- [12:26]
Chase Representative
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- [13:33]
Jay Bailey
Joy, I want to ask you about, you know, what we're trying to do with this episode is really talk to people about the mindsets that go along with this. So Jay just told us about some tough stuff out there, right? Capital's more expensive, people are looking for return. They want it now. That can strike fear into the heart of an entrepreneur who feels like they're on a timeline. Right? I got so much money, it'll last so long. I gotta get going. Talk to us about managing fear.
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah, that's a great point. So I think it's important to recognize that fear is not uncommon and it's not unexpected when you're doing something new. And so it really is about your ability to trust that you can find your way in this situation. One of the most helpful things I think for managing fear is to not keep it to ourselves because a lot of times we struggle in shame. And we don't let people know, hey, I need help with this thing. And so the thing that can be most helpful for managing fear is to let somebody else know that you're afraid and that you need help figuring out a particular problem.
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Jay Bailey
Interesting. All right, let's make this local for everyone. Talk about Atlanta. Dr. Joy, we'll start with you. Why is Atlanta a great place to start a business?
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Ooh, so many reasons. I think there's such a vibrant culture here in Atlanta, and a lot of people end up following their passion. So there's something that happens in their life, and then they develop a business around solving a particular problem for themselves that then expands to the needs of other people as well. And I also think it's an incredibly supportive place. So, like Jade was talking about, there's a lot of collaboration, I think, that happens with businesses in Atlanta that I think is very unique to this city.
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Ben Walter
Okay.
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Jay Bailey
And, Jay, you're Mr. Atlanta, so I know you can talk about this for a long time.
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
There is no other city like Atlanta. I mean, the first premise, though, and I think it's the power of the Russell Center. Far more powerful than curriculum is community. And having that network of people around you outside of anything that we can teach them, having that positive affirmation that this is going to work, that you should be doing this work. I believe Atlanta unequivocally has the potential to be the most consequential city of the next 100 years. There is no other city with our corporations, our colleges. We got more corporate innovation centers here in Atlanta than any other city in the country. We got more black enrolled college students in Atlanta, Georgia, than any other city in the world. When you started talking about our collaboration, even our chambers of commerce, where we have collaborations going there, we have a culture, we have community, and we're a lot cooler than other cities. Where else can you go from Ambassador Andrew Young to Andre 3000 to Mayor Andre Dickens in one grocery store? Atlanta. And so when I started to think about our airport, our geography, and our opportunity to grow, Google ain't wrong. Microsoft ain't wrong. Delta ain't wrong. UPS ain't wrong. Airbnb ain't wrong. Mastercard isn't wrong. Chase isn't wrong. Diversity is the key ingredient for profitability, and Atlanta has it better than anybody else. And I've not seen another city in the market that has made innovation inclusive. I think that's what we're doing in this city.
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Ben Walter
I don't think there's a city in America that isn't receptive to entrepreneurship. Nothing happens in a vacuum. That's the most important thing to remember. What matters more is an environment that is supportive of entrepreneurship. And that means the right infrastructure, the right financial institutions, an entrepreneurship community that is supportive of each other. Clearly, demographics help. A place that's growing faster is easier than a place that's growing more slowly or shrinking. Right. So you can't escape gravity to some degree. But I think having all that is really powerful. Chase is in 4:48 states and in every market in which we operate, we see dynamic entrepreneurship going on. And it's going on sort of under the nose of everyone. That's what's amazing. I mean, we were in Montana and we came across this company that had started a company to use aerial footage to detect methane leaks from fracking sites. And they were using these small planes and they had figured it out themselves. And it was in a small town in Montana. Amazing stuff. And that's all over the country. I could give you hundreds of those that we see all over the country. It happens everywhere. And it happens because of the dynamism of American entrepreneurship. I believe this very deeply, that our communities in the United States culturally support entrepreneurship. It's deeply embedded into the DNA of the country. When communities support entrepreneurship, they support sustainable wealth building, capitalist embedded programs. We have programs at Chase that support entrepreneurs in historically underserved communities that want to lift themselves up, called Coaching for Impact. We have over 50 small business coaches that provides coaching to small business owners who sign up for our program. It's available to both clients and non clients. And it's a six part course that has to do with all the different pieces of running a business. There's a marketing module, there's a capital module, there's a finance module, all the different modules that it takes to generically run a business. And when business owners in those communities do well, they want to reinvest in their communities, they hire people from their communities who spend more money in their communities and it becomes self sustaining.
- [18:54]
Jay Bailey
Dr. Joy, I'm the kind of guy at a cocktail party that talks to the people that I already know. And then there's those people who automatically go up to the person they don't know. So for the people who are like me, who tend to want to talk to the people they already know, that is not how you build a network. So how do you advise people to get their head around that?
- [19:13]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yeah, so I encourage people to use their resources. So for example, this kind of event, there's already a list of who's going to be here in some ways. And so doing a little bit of research before you get to an event to talk out, to scope out particular people that you want to connect with, and then just giving yourself a time limit, I think anxiety sometimes makes it so that we feel like, okay, I'm gonna go to this thing and I'm gonna panic and I'm not gonna wanna do it. But if you give yourself 20 minutes to go and network, talk with somebody new, then if you feel like it's too overwhelming after 20 minutes, then you give yourself permission to leave.
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Jay Bailey
Okay, I wanna stay with you for a minute, Dr. Joy, and talk to people. Running a business we hear all the time from entrepreneurs, is the most stressful thing in their lives. Right. It feels awfully lonely. So when it's lonely and it's stressful, what are two tips for how to manage loneliness and stress?
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Yes. So I think participating in events like this where you can meet other entrepreneurs and don't just come to the event, make sure you leave with contact information for the people that you are meeting here. And I think also working with a therapist is an incredible way to decrease feelings of loneliness. Shout out to the therapist in the room, because, again, you know, I think a lot of times we struggle in silence. And working with a therapist can help you to realize that you're not alone in what you're feeling.
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Ben Walter
Great.
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Jay Bailey
All right, we only have a few minutes left. I want to leave with something that we ask all of our guests on the show, and I want to give each of you a few minutes to answer this. If you could leave everyone in the room with two pieces of advice. As a business owner, what would it.
- [20:45]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Be for any entrepreneur that's in the audience and any entrepreneur that's listening to the podcast, you cannot do this by yourself. It is too hard. You don't know all things. You can't be a master of the legal aspects and the accounting aspects, the sales aspects and the marketing aspects, the social aspects and the interpersonal aspects. You need a tribe. Go find your tribe. Be courageous enough. And if you're black, brown, or woman in this audience, we've heard it our whole lives. We gotta be twice as sharp, three times as smart, five times as perfect, and ten times as on point just to compete with mediocre. What it does is not give us the license and sometimes the courage to raise our hand when we need help. Find spaces that allow you to be whole, perfect, and complete with who you are. Find the courage to be able to say and be Vulnerable enough to say, I don't know, I need some help, or could you help show me the way? And the last piece is find people that have been successful doing it before and make friends with them.
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Ben Walter
Awesome.
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Jay Bailey
Thank you, Jay. Dr. Joy.
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Oh, that was so good, Jay. So I will say to make sure that you protect your dream. So you heard the CEO talk about the haters and those kinds of things. And I think it's important to make sure that you have supportive sounding boards in your space, because a lot of times we will share our dreams with other people and they react negatively because they have not acted on their own dreams. And so be very, very careful with who you are sharing your dream with. And I will also echo the importance of community. We cannot do this alone, nor do we need to. And so being brave and being compassionate and asking for help, I think is really the key to success.
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Ben Walter
Awesome.
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Jay Bailey
Well, I'm going to leave us with one piece of advice, which is find someone in your network, in your company, in your life who's willing to tell you when you're wrong. You gotta have someone around you who will challenge you. You might not agree. You might ignore them. That's your choice. But if you don't have a voice in your head or someone you trust in your life who once in a while can say you're wrong, here's why you should do something different, then you're not going to consider every option. So. So make sure there is someone in there who you trust enough to tell you you're wrong. Jay. Dr. Joy, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for being with us today.
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Thank you, Ben. Thank you.
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Jay Bailey
Can't wait for the podcast to come together.
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Ben Walter
Let's go meet some small business owners.
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Thank you.
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You're welcome.
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Ben Walter
Thanks for listening to this special bonus episode. We have one more surprise for you. Keep an eye on this feed because we're gonna do it again. There's one more story we just had to tell. It's about a fantastic program that helps veterans succeed during their transition from service to higher education. If you like this episode, please rate and review it. It'll help our show find more listeners. I'm Ben Walter, and this is the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and ruby studio from iHeartMedia.